Try out BigBlueButton 2.0-beta (and give us your feedback)

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Everyone,

BigBlueButton 1.1, released earlier this year, has been very stable and widely deployed.   Some companies in the BigBlueButton ecosystem have used this release to host hundreds of thousands of classes serving millions of students world-wide.  

Much of the positive feedback on 1.10 focused on the product's ease of use and ease of collaboration -- both are important for instructors wanting to engage remote students online in a live class.

When designing and building the next version of BigBlueButton, we wanted to build upon these strengths.  BigBlueButton 2.0 adds three main new features

  1. More consistent user interface

  2. Mulit-user Whiteboard

  3. Shared Notes

We have created an overview video (which covers the numerous UI improvements)

  https://youtu.be/dhoIZ9i-JYE

We have a live test server that you can try them out

  https://test20.bigbluebutton.org

We invite everyone to try the above server and give us your feedback.  

We are working towards releasing BigBlueButton 2.0-beta (with install instructions).  You can expect this shortly.

A BIG thanks to the Mconf team for contributing the shared notes feature for this release, along with many helpful UI improvements such as the ability to download a presentation and the ability to put BigBlueButton in full-screen mode.

If your interested to see where the product is headed, watch the above overview video, try out the test server, and give your feedback (and let us know if you find anything in the interface that doesn't work quite right).

We look forward to hearing it.

Regards,... Fred

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@bigbluebutton

[Greg McKenna]

Fred,

Congratulations on 2.0 beta progress. The initial beta version is impressive.

Question, first request when opening in Chrome was to enable Flash. Is Flash 

used in 2.0 or is flash completely eliminated?

Regards,
Greg McKenna

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[Fred Dixon]

Hi Greg,

Interesting that you asked -- yes, 2.0 is based on Flash, though with the new user interface, we've had a few people ask us that question.

Flash works well, and you can run BigBlueButton 2.0 on Mac, Windows, and Linux in all modern browsers (though we recommend FireFox and Chrome for WebRTC audio).

We'll also have a mobile solution for you with the HTML5 client.  You'll see more updates on the HTML5 client this fall.  

Both the HTML5 client and the BigBlueButton 2.0 client use the same core server, so students will be able to join from the desktop with the Flash client or from a mobile device with the HTML5 client, whichever works best for their needs.

Regards,... Fred

[tomoya]

Hi,

2.0 beta looks great.  Sophisticated UI and multiuser whiteboard are really great.

[Fred Dixon]

Thanks Tomoya!

Regards,.. Fred

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:49 PM, tomoya <tom...@wenode.net> wrote:

Hi,

2.0 beta looks great.  Sophisticated UI and multiuser whiteboard are really great.

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[Tom Ryan]

very impressive! looking forward to testing it on our server.

one quick note: on my laptop (in chrome), I had to resize the screen (shrink) to see the start/cancel|Close button in the breakout room setup.

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Tom,

Got it -- what's the resolution of your laptop screen?  

Regards,... Fred

[vn...@yandex.com]

Wow.  That is SLICK!   I want it..

 

Does it create any additional server load, memory requirements, or any other downsides?  Or is this mostly browser UI focused?

Looking at the video, and the shared notes part, I see the standard window decorations, minimize and maximize. Can we do full screen with it?  Or replace the slideshow entirely by changing the layout?  It seems text based, so browser plugins can "see" it, like the Grammarly add-on for Chrome, spell checkers, etc?  Does each user have their own cursor?  What happens if everybody types at the same time?  Is it like mic control, users can be given access, then blocked while the next edits?

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Vnrjc,

> I want it..

 

Good -- help us test and find bugs.  

> Does it create any additional server load, memory requirements, or any other downsides?  Or is this mostly browser UI focused?

The multi-user whiteboard creates more traffic for the server.  Having 20 people actively writing on the whiteboard (using the whiteboard tools) at the same time creates 20x more messages.  Our testing is that the server has no problem handling this increased load.  There is some lag in the client to display all the messages if there are many.

For example, in our testing if you have 20 people use the pen tool to blacken their screen with whiteboard marks for a minute, that does cause lag in the client, but that may not be a realistic use case. 

> Looking at the video, and the shared notes part, I see the standard window decorations, minimize and 

maximize. Can we do full screen with it?  

You can maximize the shared notes window, then make the BigBlueButton client full screen.  It should come pretty close to what you are looking for.

> Or replace the slideshow entirely by changing the layout?  

You can freely move around any window in any layout.

> It seems text based, so browser plugins can "see" it, like the Grammarly add-on for Chrome, spell checkers, etc?  

Not sure, we haven't tried testing it, but unlikely.  A screen reader may see the text using the accessibility features supported by Flash, but a browser plugin looking for an HTML text field will not.  We will be implementing shared notes in the HTML5 client at some point in the future.

> Does each user have their own cursor?  What happens if everybody types at the same time?  

Try it.  It just works.

> Is it like mic control, users can be given access, then blocked while the next edits?

The shared nots are available to everyone.  We can add more fine-grain controls in the future.  Our focus now is to make sure the current implementing is solid and ready for production.

Regards,... Fred

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[tomoya]

Hi, Fred

I want a tooltip for multiuser whiteboard and backward compatibility for different front-ends.

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Tom,

> I want a tooltip for multiuser whiteboard and backward compatibility for different front-ends.

Yes, there will be a tooltip for the mulit-user whiteboard.  

The API for BigBlueButton 2.0 is backward compatible (as have been the previous versions), so you won't need to change anything in your front end to use the new version.

Regards,... Fred

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:21 AM, tomoya <tom...@wenode.net> wrote:

Hi, Fred

I want a tooltip for multiuser whiteboard and backward compatibility for different front-ends.

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[vn...@yandex.com]

The perf makes sense.  The server is already blasting a lot of packets, so a few more should not matter.  Are you batching the shared notes updates in any way?  It might make sense to have redis do a bit of caching at maybe a quarter or half second level, then send it in one chunk to each client.   Less chattiness there, and better latency for the audio.   20 users typing FAST might be a few hundred bytes.  1 packet to each user should cover it.

Supporting both clients seems like a pain.  Widely different features available.  Add multiple browsers for more fun.

Nice server too.  Looks like ovh in quebec.  300ms for me and STEADY, which I can not recall ever seeing from VN, especially to the other side of the planet.  Packet loss less than 1%, again, amazing..  But they own the backbone, and a TLD, so they may know what they are doing.  ;)

Your webpage needs a little work.  heh.  http://fred-perf.blindside-dev.com/

Looks like mine!

On Wednesday, August 23, 2017 at 5:59:05 PM UTC+7, Fred Dixon wrote:

Hi Vnrjc,

> I want it..

 

Good -- help us test and find bugs.  

> Does it create any additional server load, memory requirements, or any other downsides?  Or is this mostly browser UI focused?

The multi-user whiteboard creates more traffic for the server.  Having 20 people actively writing on the whiteboard (using the whiteboard tools) at the same time creates 20x more messages.  Our testing is that the server has no problem handling this increased load.  There is some lag in the client to display all the messages if there are many.

For example, in our testing if you have 20 people use the pen tool to blacken their screen with whiteboard marks for a minute, that does cause lag in the client, but that may not be a realistic use case. 

> Looking at the video, and the shared notes part, I see the standard window decorations, minimize and 

maximize. Can we do full screen with it?  

You can maximize the shared notes window, then make the BigBlueButton client full screen.  It should come pretty close to what you are looking for.

> Or replace the slideshow entirely by changing the layout?  

You can freely move around any window in any layout.

> It seems text based, so browser plugins can "see" it, like the Grammarly add-on for Chrome, spell checkers, etc?  

Not sure, we haven't tried testing it, but unlikely.  A screen reader may see the text using the accessibility features supported by Flash, but a browser plugin looking for an HTML text field will not.  We will be implementing shared notes in the HTML5 client at some point in the future.

> Does each user have their own cursor?  What happens if everybody types at the same time?  

Try it.  It just works.

> Is it like mic control, users can be given access, then blocked while the next edits?

The shared notes are available to everyone.  We can add more fine-grain controls in the future.  Our focus now is to make sure the current implementing is solid and ready for production.

Regards,... Fred

[vn...@yandex.com]

Ok, I did play with your server a few minutes.  damn, that is as smooth as mine in Sydney.  Higher pings, but solid!  it worked well, watching myself.

I did not see the record button, but that needs OAuth, etc, and you probably do not want the stampeding herds to fill your server.  Fair enough.

Took me a minute to find the shared notes, layouts, etc.  Good enough!  Next time I will know.  Maybe an icon near screenshare, enable camera, and a notes button.  Not a big deal.

What size server do you have?  I did look at OVH/singapore, but they are oversold, and the routing is always in flux, so, nope.  I think I must host inside VN due to connectivity issues..

See attached image, the routing just flakes out, and packet loss can spike.  Local hosting for the win.  Bandwidth is pricey in asia.  you want international bandwidth PAY.  Hosting always has x free, then Y per gig after.  it is what it is.

Oh, and hey, do not make it TOO slick, I gotta do my lessons!  I can not have people OOHing and AAHing the whole time! :)

[Mounir Abderrahmani]

Hello, Mr Fred

 

I really love it trully amazing job . congrats .

I have two questions is there a possibility to add youtube video streaming in the upcoming versions ? 

I read the post where a good server can support up to 150 users simultaneously I am still concerned I want to support even more. (only presenter will talk and share the webcam ).

I would love to make a huge test for my hardware limitations , 

I installed BigBleu Button on amazon ec2 c4.xlarge works fine just as in demo, and I am wiling to upgrade it if needed, my aime is up to 700 users . 

if any one have done so let me know I would apperciate the info :)

mounir :)

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Mounir,

Thanks for the feedback.

> upgrade it if needed, my aime is up to 700 users . 

Alas, that is a bit more than we've tested with BigBlueButton.  :-)

If you want to hold that many users in a session, we recommend you see a webinar application where you have one person talking and everyone else is locked down.

The use case we are striving for -- and why we've added multi-user whiteboard and shared notes -- is collaboration among the instructor and students.  More collaboration -> more learning.

A webinar-type application is a different use case.  While there are needs, such as yourself, for a large audience, the vast majority of online classes fall in the 12-14 student range, and that's the majority we're targeting with BigBlueButton.

Regards,.. Fred

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[Kirk Pathumanun]

Hello Fred,

Thank you for the release info and yes the 2.0 beta looks great. However I would like to ask on BBB development for future infrastructure. From my experience in the real world production most users require the following:

1 HTML5
Right now the html5 still lack the video webcam capability which render the platform not to be attractive for production environment. Also Flash is robust, however Adobe will stop supporting this in 3 years and more than likely people will not use flash for video conference in 5 years time. I have been a strong follower of this project since 2011 which I have deployed for the real world business situation but Flash is on a death roll walk pretty much.

2 Recording
Still most clients still request a recording of the entire presentation screen in mp4 format to be able to download. I understand this is a premium solution but other project on opensource community has already provide this solution to the community.

3 Mobile Development
This is where the project should be heading with a concrete SDK because majority of the users want to have real mobile capability from apps not from Puffin Browser connection. We have found that even though Puffin provides stability but most users just give up because of the incontinence of launching the app get into the BBB url and have to go through all the Flash web and mic sharing.

Hope that you can provide insight on this Fred since I do believe that I'm not the only one who would like to be informed of these roadmap for the future of BBB

Thank you

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Kirk,

Thanks for the feedback!

> 1 HTML5

> Right now the html5 still lack the video webcam capability which render the platform not to be attractive for production environment. 

We're not planning to support two-way video in the first release of the HTML5 client.  Our plan is to provide all the other viewer capabilities -- including viewing of desktop sharing video.

Our plan is to support two-way webcams between the HTML5 client and the Flash client, but that's going to take a bit more work.  We figure if we can support all the other viewer capabilities in the HTML5 client for a first release, we'll cover a very large number of use cases of students connecting in from their mobile device.

> 2 Recording 

> Still most clients still request a recording of the entire presentation screen in mp4 format to be able to download. 

We do have it on our road map, and this is a feature that is already offered by some of the companies providing commercial support for BigBlueButton, see

  https://bigbluebutton.org/support

> 3 Mobile Development

> This is where the project should be heading with a concrete SDK because majority of the users want to have real mobile capability from apps not from Puffin Browser connection.

We are targeting the first release of the HTML5 client for the mobile user -- android and iOS.  In other words, if you are using your desktop or laptop, the Flash client is the way to go.  Adobe did announce they would be stopping support and development of Flash in 3 1/2 years -- we'll have moved BigBlueButton to HTML5 platform long before then and the first release of the HTML5 client is a first step in that direction.

You'll see the first release of the HTML5 client for BigBlueButton later this fall.  As before, we'll make a test server available for you to try it out (you can see an earlier build running now on https://test.bigbluebutton.org).

Regards,.. Fred

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[bendark]

hi @ all developers

thanks for this big blue button.

i found that the full screen doesn't work as expected. i tested in different web browser. Linux and windows 10.


i would like to see the names of users writing in shared notes.


i would like to make presentation downloadable after upload .


adding the status icons to chat module.


best regards

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Bendark,

hi @ all developers

> i found that the full screen doesn't work as expected. i tested in different web browser. Linux and windows 10. 

Hmmm .. can you be more specific.  Did it go into full screen?

> i would like to see the names of users writing in shared notes.

We're working on that capability and you'll soon see it on demo.

> i would like to make presentation downloadable after upload . 

Rather than introduce more UI, if an instructor wants to make it downloadable, they could upload it again and check the download option.

> adding the status icons to chat module.

We'll do that in the future, but we'll get the "who is typing" option in first for shared notes.

Thanks for the feedback!

Regards,... Fred

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[bendark]

hi fred

i tested build 704 ,, on firefox esr 52.3 debian 9 64 bit , it s not possible to start full screen.
tested on same system debian 9 , with chrome Version 60.0.3112.78 , tests are ok

maybe it s better to add possibility to close (delete) the new cŕeated additional shared notes when needed.



best regards

[Fred Dixon]

Hi bendark,

Thanks for the suggestion, the plan is to add the ability to delete extra notes.

Keep the feedback coming!

Regards,... Fred 

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[Michael]

Looks very nice! :)  Thank you very much for your work.

Looking forward for HTML5 interface option. Not working webcams not matters!


Best Regards, Michael

[Rakibul Hasan]

Hi,

I'm getting  the attached error

(posted in another thread too)

--

Thanks,

Rakib

[Fred Dixon]

Hi Rakibul,

Can you try out the latest update to BigBlueButton 2.0-beta and let us know if you still get this error.

   http://docs.bigbluebutton.org/2.0/20install.html#upgrade-to-latest-build-of-bigbluebuttton-20

Regards,.... Fred

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