Re: Brian Mulroney...Brian Mulroney...Brian Mulroney!!
Top Poster
"Karen Gordon" <ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:c8u752$eht$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> "Steven Kaasgaard" <23sk...@ica.net> wrote in message
> >> One of the backroom boys of the "Conservatives" again...
> >> Old ways are hard to shake off?
>
> "John Murray" (jmu...@hotmail.com) writes:
> > You're no worse than one of those simpletons in the USA who cry's
"Clinton
> > to blame" everytime they have nothing else to attack the Democrats over.
> >
> > Grow up.
> Mulroney never left politics.... he just took a back seat - from which he
> has been doing the driving .....
You're lying again, KKKaren. Gosh, you lie a lot. Have you considered
therapy?
The Doctor
Mulroney endorsed Harper. Hate to say it, but Karen is correct.
--
Member - Liberal International
This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
Canada - Do not be conned by Mulroney Harper nor Layoffs Layton!! VOTE Liberal
Bullock
"Top Poster" <_Beware_of_...@faketoppostersucks.moc5689hgtd> wrote
in message news:cMxsc.546849$Pk3.75393@pd7tw1no...
Therapy is only prescribed if there's a remote chance that it will be
effective. Let's not waste the time of a qualified therapist on the Mad Cow.
tsarkon
> In article <cMxsc.546849$Pk3.75393@pd7tw1no>,
> Top Poster <_Beware_of_...@faketoppostersucks.moc5689hgtd> wrote:
>
>>"Karen Gordon" <ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
>>news:c8u752$eht$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
>>
>>>"Steven Kaasgaard" <23sk...@ica.net> wrote in message
>>>
>>>>>One of the backroom boys of the "Conservatives" again...
>>>>>Old ways are hard to shake off?
>>>
>>>"John Murray" (jmu...@hotmail.com) writes:
>>>
>>>>You're no worse than one of those simpletons in the USA who cry's
>>
>>"Clinton
>>
>>>>to blame" everytime they have nothing else to attack the Democrats over.
>>>>
>>>>Grow up.
>>
>>>Mulroney never left politics.... he just took a back seat - from which he
>>>has been doing the driving .....
>>
>> You're lying again, KKKaren. Gosh, you lie a lot. Have you considered
>>therapy?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Mulroney endorsed Harper. Hate to say it, but Karen is correct.
Under Mulroney our healthcare system was much better than it ever was
under a Liberal. Under Harper expect the same. Paul Martin destroyed
healthcare.
The Doctor
Mulroney nearly left this country fiscally bankrupt.
Expect the same from Harper, right?
tsarkon
>
> Mulroney nearly left this country fiscally bankrupt.
> Expect the same from Harper, right?
No. Expect healthcare and military spending cuts under Martin though.
Quebec meanwhile will get boat loads of cash spread around.
Top Poster
"The Doctor" <doc...@edmontoninternetserviceprovider.ca> wrote in message
news:c8vktm$3ep$2...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <cMxsc.546849$Pk3.75393@pd7tw1no>,
> Top Poster <_Beware_of_...@faketoppostersucks.moc5689hgtd> wrote:
> >
> >"Karen Gordon" <ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> >news:c8u752$eht$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> >> "Steven Kaasgaard" <23sk...@ica.net> wrote in message
> >> >> One of the backroom boys of the "Conservatives" again...
> >> >> Old ways are hard to shake off?
> >>
> >> "John Murray" (jmu...@hotmail.com) writes:
> >> > You're no worse than one of those simpletons in the USA who cry's
> >"Clinton
> >> > to blame" everytime they have nothing else to attack the Democrats
over.
> >> >
> >> > Grow up.
> >
> >> Mulroney never left politics.... he just took a back seat - from which
he
> >> has been doing the driving .....
> >
> > You're lying again, KKKaren. Gosh, you lie a lot. Have you considered
> >therapy?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Mulroney endorsed Harper. Hate to say it, but Karen is correct.
I am contesting her assertion that Mulroney is "driving" the Conservative
party.
KKKaren seldom tells the truth.
Steven Kaasgaard
> he
> > > has been doing the driving .....
Harper the perfect cardboard cut out for the right side of the class.
With Brian Mulroney haunting about...maybe he'll get worse campaign
directions since they each owe one another big paybacks for misdeeds
done to one another in the past..
Can't keep a good man down, even if they can't but help recycling this
guy!
Lyin Brian...nice anchor to have aboard...
Steven Kaasgaard
Green Alternative List/WildGreens
Canada
Stephen Green
winner. Just look at the number of scandals that the Federal Liberals have
created, just look at the enormous waste of taxpayers hard earned dollars
that the Liberals spent. Just look at the hollow promises that both Jean
Chretien and Paul Martin have made, without even implementing them.
Nay, Paul Martin and his Liberals are thiefs and are corrupt! Mulroney is a
solid Canadian that actually did something good for Canada.
--
===============================
SDGreen
North Saanich, BC
===============================
Vote Conservative !
"Karen Gordon" <ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:c8u752$eht$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> "Steven Kaasgaard" <23sk...@ica.net> wrote in message
> >> One of the backroom boys of the "Conservatives" again...
> >> Old ways are hard to shake off?
>
> "John Murray" (jmu...@hotmail.com) writes:
> > You're no worse than one of those simpletons in the USA who cry's
"Clinton
> > to blame" everytime they have nothing else to attack the Democrats over.
> >
> > Grow up.
>
> (K): Maybe it's YOU that should grow up. Mulroney has never left
politics.
> He's been behind the Conservative elimination of their competition and
> vote-splitting, Reform Party of Canada. He's the one coming out of the
> woodwork to take slashes at Chretien policies and funding of social
programs.
> He's the one who raised his ugly little head to criticize the Liberals NOT
> joining the U.S. war on Iraq and the lack of funding for the Star Wars
> program of Bush.
>
> Mulroney never left politics.... he just took a back seat - from which he
> has been doing the driving .....
> _____________________
>
>
> Brian Mulroney gives speech praising Harper
>
> Sat. Apr. 24 2004
>
>
> Former Tory prime minister Brian Mulroney picked New Brunswick to give his
> first speech to the new Conservative Party.
>
> In a 45-minute speech in Moncton Saturday night, he praised new leader
> Stephen Harper -- an implacable ideological enemy in the 1980s -- as a man
> who can take the Conservatives back to power.
>
> "This is the kind of party Stephen Harper is leading: a moderate,
> successful Conservative party," he told about 600 people who had paid $500
> per plate.
>
> "I tell you, that in this room and every room like this across Canada, if
> we rise together in solidarity and support, the Conservative Party will
> live again!"
>
> Mulroney was believed to be supporting auto parts executive Belinda <==
> Stronach behind the scenes during her unsuccessful run for the
> Conservative leadership. He was a public supporter of the effort to merge
> the Tories and the Canadian Alliance.
>
> Harper, Mulroney and New Brunswick Premier Bernard Lord, who some had
> wanted to see run for the new party's leadership, mingled together during
> the fundraiser, a symbol of unity.
>
> "That's the way it used to be, for 125 years. Then it took a 10-year
> hiatus, and now we're all back together," Mulroney told CTV. <===
>
> The right-wing split
>
> Mulroney won a massive landslide in 1984, after people decided they had
> enough after almost 16 unbroken years of Liberal rule (Tory leader Joe
> Clark formed a minority government in 1979, but it only lasted eight
months).
>
> In 1987, Preston Manning -- with Harper as his policy chief -- launched
> the right-wing, populist Reform Party with the slogan "The West Wants In!"
>
> Ironically, with powerful ministers like Albertans Don Mazankowski and Joe
> Clark, Westerners had never had so much influence in the federal cabinet.
>
> While Mulroney prevailed in the 1988 free trade campaign, his coalition
> between Western conservatives and Quebec nationalists broke up, especially
> after the failure of 1990's Meech Lake constitutional accord.
>
> His government was battered by a series of scandals, documented in the
> book On The Take by journalist Stevie Cameron, which turned into a huge
> bestseller.
>
> Policies like the Goods and Services Tax stuck in the nation's collective
> craw. A 1986 decision to award a CF-18 jet fighter maintenance contract to
> a Quebec company after it had been fairly won by a Winnipeg firm enraged
> the West.
>
> The Reform Party held its first convention in Winnipeg on the first
> anniversary of the CF-18 announcement.
>
> "Obviously we will always have our disagreements. I think in terms of
> major policy initiatives he took, most have been continued by his
> successors," Harper said. "In that sense much of his programs have been
> vindicated." <====
>
> Mulroney, his popularity bottoming out, stepped down in 1993, and his
> successor Kim Campbell led the Tories to a disastrous defeat as they won
> only two seats.
>
> In 1997 and 2000, vote-splitting between first the Tories and Reform, then
> the Canadian Alliance, helped Liberal prime minister Jean Chretien form
> majority governments.
>
> Split healed?
>
> Asked if being seen with Mulroney might hurt, Harper said Mulroney's image
> is changing, particularly in light of the sponsorship scandal.
>
> Interestingly, a former Tory prime minister who has stayed away from the
> new party is Clark. <===
>
> After he won the new party's leadership on March 20, Harper made an effort
> in his victory speech to reach out to all different types of Tories,
> including so-called Red Tories like Clark.
>
>
> --
> """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
> Government.... cannot be wiser than the people
> """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Reason
"Karen Gordon" <ar...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:c8u752$eht$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca...
> "Steven Kaasgaard" <23sk...@ica.net> wrote in message
> >> One of the backroom boys of the "Conservatives" again...
> >> Old ways are hard to shake off?
>
> "John Murray" (jmu...@hotmail.com) writes:
> > You're no worse than one of those simpletons in the USA who cry's
"Clinton
> > to blame" everytime they have nothing else to attack the Democrats over.
> >
> > Grow up.
>
> (K): Maybe it's YOU that should grow up. Mulroney has never left
politics.
> He's been behind the Conservative elimination of their competition and
> vote-splitting, Reform Party of Canada. He's the one coming out of the
> woodwork to take slashes at Chretien policies and funding of social
programs.
> He's the one who raised his ugly little head to criticize the Liberals NOT
> joining the U.S. war on Iraq and the lack of funding for the Star Wars
> program of Bush.
>
> Mulroney never left politics.... he just took a back seat - from which he
> has been doing the driving .....
Looks to me like he took the bus down a dead-end street and crashed it. He
lost his license after that. Joe Clark took the wheel for awhile, but the
bus wouldn't turn left as much as he wanted, so he bailed out. Now Stephen
Harper seems to be slowly but surely getting it back out of the ditch and on
the road. The latest boarder is John Crosby it seems.
Robert P Drake
wrote:
Yet more examples of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". You
can't elect your way out of it.
Simon Templar
Such short memories, Mulroney put us through one of the worst recessions since
the depression and left us with a huge debt.
The Doctor
Mulruiney destroyed Conservativsm and Harper
is falling in to the same trap.
MArtin is the minister who did something corect with finance!
The Doctor
And this what Conservatism in modern day Canada stands for!!
ttjjekk119234
Karen Gordon has all the classic signs of a manipulator. I bet she's
single.
ttjjekk119234
No, that was Trudeau. One year, Trudeau added 25% to the national
debt.
ttjjekk119234
wrote:
>Such short memories, Mulroney put us through one of the worst recessions since
>the depression
And when things were recovering under Chretien, Chretien got the pat
on the back from Canadians instead of BILL CLINTON. If anyone should
be blamed for the early 90's recession it should be GEORGE BUSH SR.
Brian Mulroney and Jean Chretien are ants in the big world and the US
presidents can step on them anytime they want.
>and left us with a huge debt.
The numbers are there and they clearly indicate that all governments
over the last 40 years and equally responsible for the national debt.
You obviously have another ax to grind.
Steven Kaasgaard
They are really recycling now!..If all these refills get elected we
are going to have an alumni club in parliament.
Steven
The Doctor
ttjjekk119234
doc...@edmontoninternetserviceprovider.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
And why did Trudeau get away with it? How come Chretien get away with
it? Seems to me you just hate Mulroney and will make anything the
Liberals to be okay.
The fact is that Chretien has added over $130 billion of (interest
bearing) debt to Canada (2001 dollars) up to 2001. Trudeau added $369
billion (2001 dollars). So I'm a little unsure as to why you want to
blame Mulroney. Consider that this whole thing of debt is nothing
more than a snowball coming down a mountain and we should be putting
the blame of debt on the preceding PMs. How about Pearson?
$36 billion (2001 dollars).
And for the record, Mulroney added $388 billion (2001 dollars) of debt
to the federal government.
Let's get your head our of your rear and start placing blame fairly
and equally on all PMs over the last 40 years.
Mountain Goat
wrote:
>Compared to Liberal Jean Chretien and Paul Martin, Brian Mulroney is a clear
>winner. Just look at the number of scandals that the Federal Liberals have
>created, just look at the enormous waste of taxpayers hard earned dollars
>that the Liberals spent. Just look at the hollow promises that both Jean
>Chretien and Paul Martin have made, without even implementing them.
>
>Nay, Paul Martin and his Liberals are thiefs and are corrupt! Mulroney is a
>solid Canadian that actually did something good for Canada.
How about the PC Senators, MPs and cabinet members convicted of
felonys? Muruiney is way ahead on that score. Sinclair Stevens comes
immediately to mind.
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
Simon Templar
And Mulroney doubled it.
Simon Templar
A pox on all the parties. I only report history, I don't make this shit up. You are
responsible for what happens under your watch.
Reason
"ttjjekk119234" <ttjjek...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1r9ab0pogkm2cd1jh...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 May 2004 16:52:42 -0400, Simon Templar <ne...@tell.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Such short memories, Mulroney put us through one of the worst recessions
since
> >the depression
Amazing. I didn't think a Canadian Prime Minister had such power. I didn't
think a US president had such power. Please explain to us how Mulroney "put
us through one of the worst recessions since the depression."
Steven Kaasgaard
> And this is what Conservatism in modern day Canada stands for!!
We have yet to see these neo-conservatives in action.
But what we have seen in action is the folks at the remote control.
Brian Mulroney et al. THE OLD BOYS NET hiding in the backroom.
Don't expect much to change.
Same old cardboard corporate cut outs..
Funny how they are trying to get Harper to demonstrate a sense of
humour?? Concrete that smiles...
he he he.
Steven
The Doctor
I do not defend Trudeau on this matter!!
And Neither Pearson. Chretien took the bull by the horns
where Mulroney ran the debt up without adressing it properly.
I still recall Kim campbell saying that the principle was paid but not
the interest. And you wonder why I think Mulroney
is a BIGGER liability than Chretien.
get the facts please!
The Doctor
Mountain Goat <rmgo...@SPAMshaw.ca> wrote:
>On Wed, 26 May 2004 18:15:50 GMT, "Stephen Green" <sd.g...@shaw.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>Compared to Liberal Jean Chretien and Paul Martin, Brian Mulroney is a clear
>>winner. Just look at the number of scandals that the Federal Liberals have
>>created, just look at the enormous waste of taxpayers hard earned dollars
>>that the Liberals spent. Just look at the hollow promises that both Jean
>>Chretien and Paul Martin have made, without even implementing them.
>>
>>Nay, Paul Martin and his Liberals are thiefs and are corrupt! Mulroney is a
>>solid Canadian that actually did something good for Canada.
>
>How about the PC Senators, MPs and cabinet members convicted of
>felonys? Muruiney is way ahead on that score. Sinclair Stevens comes
>immediately to mind.
>
And Harper merged for this?? Get ready to see Conservatives voters
switch to another party!! I doubt they would vote Liberal or NDP
thought.
The Doctor
And Harper would worsten it!
The Doctor
I do not find it amusing that Mulroney-styled conservative is
eroding Harper's intelligence.
ttjjekk119234
doc...@edmontoninternetserviceprovider.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
Chretien had the GST which was relatively new (1992?). Where did he
get that from? The fact of the matter is that the Tories did the
dirty work and the Liberals took all the acclaim. There is no way
Chretien would have been able to reduce the deficit without the GST
and without gutting healthcare.
ttjjekk119234
doc...@edmontoninternetserviceprovider.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
You're speculating. Perhaps you should be open-minded on all the
issues and all the candidates.
ttjjekk119234
wrote:
>ttjjekk119234 wrote:
From 1979 to 1984, Trudeau doubled it! That's a pretty short
timeframe to double it!
You hate for Mulroney is obvious. Was it the GST? Free trade? Dollar
coins?
Keep an open-mind and hate all the PMs over the last 50 years evenly
and equally. Trudeau is scum as is Mulroney, Pearson and Chretien.
Simon Templar
Check it yourself, it's called historical fact. We had a "Made in Canada"
recession under Mulroney's watch caused by the high interest rate policy.
Simon Templar
The fact remains he had the balls to do what had to be done. At that point the Wall
Street Journal was declaring Canada as a country on the verge of bankruptcy. Now we
are the only country to run budget surpluses and pay down the debt.
The Doctor
The Doctor
Given the state of the economy we need a slaes tax until otherwise
notified? IMHO we need the taxes to get rid of debt.
Do it for 2 more years and then create a new tax system.
The Doctor
Mulrony was the WORST of the lot. He had a chance to proive that
Conservatism was different and threw it away!
The Doctor
And MArtin is the man who got this rolling!!
Steven Kaasgaard
> > And Harper merged for this?? Get ready to see Conservatives voters
> switch to another party!! I doubt they would vote Liberal or NDP
> thought.
Hmmm maybe thats why the greens have a neo-conservative look to em now
with ex-PC Jim Harris as "leader" ?
Steven
ttjjekk119234
doc...@edmontoninternetserviceprovider.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
Ya know, the only thing that Chretien did that I applaud him for was
staying out of Iraq.
1) Balancing the budget? Well he did it with the help of the GST.
And by reducing healthcare payments from 60 cents to 18 cents. This
is balancing the budget? Maybe if you're not compassionate.
2) Recovering the Economy? He did it by de-valuing the Canadian
dollar. And well, I'll applaud Bill Clinton for recovering the
Canadian economy. Chretien gets no applause here. Sorry.
Chretien has also ignored the west. Ignored the Mad Cow issues. Has
been lax on national security after 9/11.
And on top of all this, he let his MPs call the Americans "bastards"
and "morons". Our trade is done 89% with the US. The US IS our
economy. Those MPs should have been canned on the spot. The
Americans are our friends and many of us (canadians) have good friends
south of the border.
And you think Chretien is great?
ttjjekk119234
wrote:
>Reason wrote:
>
>> "ttjjekk119234" <ttjjek...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1r9ab0pogkm2cd1jh...@4ax.com...
>> > On Wed, 26 May 2004 16:52:42 -0400, Simon Templar <ne...@tell.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >Such short memories, Mulroney put us through one of the worst recessions
>> since
>> > >the depression
>>
>> Amazing. I didn't think a Canadian Prime Minister had such power. I didn't
>> think a US president had such power. Please explain to us how Mulroney "put
>> us through one of the worst recessions since the depression."
>
>Check it yourself, it's called historical fact. We had a "Made in Canada"
>recession under Mulroney's watch caused by the high interest rate policy.
Highest interest rates?? Hmmm I beleive the highest interest rates
were under Trudeau and thousands of Canadians lost their houses
because of it.
sneakysneak
>And MArtin is the man who got this rolling!!
By taking a page from Mike Harris, the man he
chastises...what a maroon! Ask Ontarians about
the $12 billion debt left by the former NDP
provincial goverment led by Bob Rae.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040526/EHARRIS26/TPNational/Canada
or
Reason
"Simon Templar" <ne...@tell.com> wrote in message
news:40B625B9...@tell.com...
You call that evidence? That's like saying carrots cause traffic accidents,
because nearly everyone who had a traffic accident ate carrots. High
interest rates cause recessions? If it were that simple, every politician
could merely lower interest rates before each election and get re-elected
every time. Get real.
Reason
"The Doctor" <doc...@edmontoninternetserviceprovider.ca> wrote in message
news:c94gb9$dgv$2...@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <sflab0pvcr5jl5h5v...@4ax.com>,
> Mountain Goat <rmgo...@SPAMshaw.ca> wrote:
> >On Wed, 26 May 2004 18:15:50 GMT, "Stephen Green" <sd.g...@shaw.ca>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Compared to Liberal Jean Chretien and Paul Martin, Brian Mulroney is a
clear
> >>winner. Just look at the number of scandals that the Federal Liberals
have
> >>created, just look at the enormous waste of taxpayers hard earned
dollars
> >>that the Liberals spent. Just look at the hollow promises that both
Jean
> >>Chretien and Paul Martin have made, without even implementing them.
> >>
> >>Nay, Paul Martin and his Liberals are thiefs and are corrupt! Mulroney
is a
> >>solid Canadian that actually did something good for Canada.
> >
> >How about the PC Senators, MPs and cabinet members convicted of
> >felonys? Muruiney is way ahead on that score. Sinclair Stevens comes
> >immediately to mind.
> >
>
> And Harper merged for this?? Get ready to see Conservatives voters
> switch to another party!! I doubt they would vote Liberal or NDP
> thought.
D'OH!
The Doctor
Welcome back Greenies.
The Doctor
You think? the NDP would kill economic efficiency.
The Tories would not balance the books!
>2) Recovering the Economy? He did it by de-valuing the Canadian
>dollar. And well, I'll applaud Bill Clinton for recovering the
>Canadian economy. Chretien gets no applause here. Sorry.
And Bush is running down the economy. Also, devaluation?
Look at the world!
>
>Chretien has also ignored the west. Ignored the Mad Cow issues. Has
>been lax on national security after 9/11.
>
>And on top of all this, he let his MPs call the Americans "bastards"
>and "morons". Our trade is done 89% with the US. The US IS our
>economy. Those MPs should have been canned on the spot. The
>Americans are our friends and many of us (canadians) have good friends
>south of the border.
>
>And you think Chretien is great?
Why do you think the Liberals turned on him when 2001 was not a Convention
year?
The Doctor
MArtin was Finance Minister quicker than Harris was Premier.
Get it correct!
Simon Templar
The rates under Mulroney were artificially high, supposedly to fight "High
inflation", which wasn't a serious problem at that time. Things didn't improve
until John Crowe was dumped as the head of the Bank of Canada and the rates were
dropped.
Simon Templar
The result of a recession made in Canada by Mulroney.
Simon Templar
It's obvious you know nothing about economics, interest rates are controlled to
a certain extent by the state of the countries economy. In Canada's case
traditionally it has been a couple of points higher than the USA to attract
investment, but when it is set too high it constricts business investment by
Canadian companies, as it did under Mulroney's watch.
ttjjekk119234
doc...@edmontoninternetserviceprovider.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
And the $350+ billion (2001 dollars) that Trudeau left behind as his
legacy is okay?
Reason
So it's inflation you want. I'd much rather have the high interest rates for
awhile, because I know it will lead to better economic times ahead. Interest
rates go up and down, but inflation only goes up.
Reason
It's obvious you don't even know that a government can only have minimal
effects on the economy. Raising or lowering the bank rate is only a minor
and largely symbolic action, that has very little effect on the economy in
the longer term.
The Doctor
Simon Templar
Did anyone suggest it was? The point is Mulroney did nothing about it and doubled it.
Regardless of what you may think about Martin he was the first to actually address the
problem and fix it.
Simon Templar
Your ignorance shows itself again, high interest rates are part of inflation.
The point is we didn't have inflation at levels that warranted the fiscal policy
used under Mulroney. The only people who benefit from high interest rates are
creditors and bond holders.
Simon Templar
Now we all know you haven't a clue, Government debt and deficits have a huge
effect on the economy, all of which are under total control of the government.
The only thing that has saved the American economy is artificially low interest
rates which has fueled refinancing of mortgages, home buying and big ticket
items. Meanwhile personal debt foreclosures and bankruptcy is at record levels.
sneakysneak
>
>MArtin was Finance Minister quicker than Harris was Premier.
>
>Get it correct!
I know that, but I didn't write the article. The Globe and Mail
did. The question is when did Paul Martin start implementing
measures to cut the federal budget deficit, as opposed to Mike
Harris, with regards to the Ontario provincial deficit? If you
have a bone to pick about the article, email The Globe and Mail.
sneakysneak
>The result of a recession made in Canada by Mulroney.
Yes...but it's nowhere near as bad as the recession
caused by Trudeau, when he was in office. I remember
unemployment hovering in the 12-13% range, and
interest rates above 15% in those days. That's how
Mulroney came to power. The assistance from PET with
regards to his patronage appointments, ensured PET's
longtime rival, John Turner, who succeeded him as
federal Liberal leader, had little to no chance of
winning the 1984 federal election. Remember, John
Turner wasn't in office long enough for most Canadian
voter to really develop a dislike or hatred for him.
He was still a rookie leader when the election was
called, and took place. The fact he was not liked by
Trudeau should have helped him. However, Trudeau made
sure a fellow Quebecer who also favored big government
and running up big deficits was elected himself. Brian
Mulroney's good fortune was also helped by another
political rival, Joe Clark. Joe Clark received a 66%
approval rating among his own party, but like a fool,
he calls a leadership convention in 1983, where he
loses to Mulroney. Brian's luck of the Irish must
be really paying off. Of course, in 1988, his party
was the only pro-free trade one, while the NDP and
the Liberals split the anti-free trade vote. 1984
was about loathing the Trudeau Liberals and wanting
to see them gone, while 1988 the main issue was
NAFTA. As bad as the recession was under Mulroney,
it was still not as bad as the recession under
Trudeau.
The Doctor
All right. I will take it easy now.
The Doctor
And all the above legacies hold true today!
Simon Templar
I lived through both, Mulroney's was longer and more brutal.
ttjjekk119234
wrote:
Fix it he did... by destroying the healthcare system -and- with the
help of the GST. The PCs did the dirty work by bringing in the GST.
And then Martin destroyed healthcare.
sneakysneak
>I lived through both, Mulroney's was longer and more brutal.
How do you figure that, and cite sources of information please.
When Mulroney took office, the unemployment rate was in the 10-11%
range I believe. Canada also suffered in the mid to late 1970s
in terms of the economy under the Trudeau administration.
Mulroney's government wasn't at the helm when Canada suffered
their worst economic times since the Great Depression. PET's
government was. Read this from the BBC website about Trudeau:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/916644.stm
This is from a public-owned company. Let me quote the following
paragraph from his obituary.
"Meanwhile, the Canadian economy was undergoing a severe recession.
Rampant inflation, high interest rates and the worst unemployment
figures since the 1930s, caused Trudeau's popularity to decline
severely."
This didn't even mention Trudeau's arrogance, and his fondness for
left wingers like himself, like Castro and Communist China. PET
was really not a liberal in the classical sense. He was closer
in heart and mind to the NDP or even the Communists than he was
to the traditional Liberal values. PET could have been a much
better prime minister than he was if he wasn't obsessed with
centralization of powers, and pitting different regions of the
country against each other, like his understudy, Chretien.
The Doctor
Harper is a Mulroney sock puppet!! I can imagine
unbalanced bugets in the red.
Martin is tryingto undo the mess.
The Doctor
Pitting different Regions of the Country Against Each other??
The Conservatives make an art of that!
sneakysneak
> Pitting different Regions of the Country Against Each other??
>
>The Conservatives make an art of that!
They learned from PET, who was a master of that.
sneakysneak
>And all the above legacies hold true today!
You can thank Joe Clark, Pierre Elliott Trudeau and
John Turner for Brian Mulroney's election as PM in
1984. Joe Clark, decided to hold a leadership
convention despite a 66% approval rating. Pierre
Trudeau, decided to take the coward's way out,
instead of facing a crushing defeat, by resigning,
and making patronage appointments as he prepared
to leave. John Turner, the new Liberal leader and
new PM at the time, decided to call an early election.
All these factors, helped Brian Mulroney to become PM.
Brian Mulroney had a lot in common with Trudeau. They
both were from Quebec, and both were wealthy lawyers.
They practiced law in Montreal. They ran up huge deficits,
and both were proponents of freetrade. They both were PMs
who spawned Quebec separatist parties. The difference was
the PQ was coming under Levesque, a former Liberal. It's
doubtful Mulroney would have made Lucien Bouchard his
lieutenant for Quebec, if he saw the emergence of the BQ.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040531/COTHOR31/TPComment/Columnists
Mountain Goat
I disagree, Mulroney was blinded by his own ambition, anything to get
elected even getting into bed with the separatists. Now we see the
same thing in the 'new' Conservative Party, Peter McKay who obviously
is incapable of keeping his word to anyone is already planning to hop
back in bed with them.
There must be something about opposition that brings out such
desperation that anything, even conniving with traitors is acceptable
to get elected.
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
The Doctor
Just note that Stephen Harper is a willing Brian Mulroney sock puppet.
sneakysneak
>I disagree, Mulroney was blinded by his own ambition, anything to get
>elected even getting into bed with the separatists. Now we see the
>same thing in the 'new' Conservative Party, Peter McKay who obviously
>is incapable of keeping his word to anyone is already planning to hop
>back in bed with them.
>
>There must be something about opposition that brings out such
>desperation that anything, even conniving with traitors is acceptable
>to get elected.
>
>
>Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.
>Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
>
>Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
Actually if anyone is going to get in bed with the separatists these
days, it is the NDP, who is closest to the Bloc in terms of the
political spectrum, being on the far left. I don't see the Liberals,
or the Conservatives wanting the Bloc as part of a coalition
government, given their history. The failure to ratify the Meech
Lake accord was Mulroney's downfall, in terms of losing Bouchard's
support and the Bloc's.
sneakysneak
>I disagree, Mulroney was blinded by his own ambition, anything to get
>elected even getting into bed with the separatists. Now we see the
>same thing in the 'new' Conservative Party, Peter McKay who obviously
>is incapable of keeping his word to anyone is already planning to hop
>back in bed with them.
>
>There must be something about opposition that brings out such
>desperation that anything, even conniving with traitors is acceptable
>to get elected.
>
>
>Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.
>Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
>
>Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die
Actually if anyone is going to get in bed with the separatists these
The Doctor
HArper seems to be endorsing the seps like his cohert Mulruiney.
Layton is Mr. DoNoThing.
Steven Kaasgaard
Trudeau was just arrogant but it made people follow him and that upset
the regions which disagreed with his policies.
But conservatives on the other hand like to harness the east west
sparring to their favour.
Neo-Conservatives also make a habit of controlling their candidates.
Harper will only answer to questions regarding his message for the
day.
Thus ignoring questions from the crowd in Saskatoon regarding the
farming crisis because he was only carrying a script for the "daily
message."
Not being allowed to wander out of the aquarium Mulroney et al have
him in.Keeping everything in a box and no talking to the crowd...oh
no! Wouldn't want the public's involvement.
And don't get into any debates you don't have to so you don't expose
your return to the days of Mulroney when Canada was for sale. With
privatization on their minds already this is the real intentions of
the neo-cons. One last big going out of business sale.
Steven Kaasgaard
Green Alternative List/WildGreens
Canada
z4869375
doc...@edmontoninternetserviceprovider.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
You mean kind of like Trudeau?
The Doctor
sneakysneak
>HArper seems to be endorsing the seps like his cohert Mulruiney.
>
>Layton is Mr. DoNoThing.
Is this wishful thinking on the part of the Fiberals, another
Fiberal lie, or do you have any concrete proof that Harper is
going to endorse them? He might agree with them on some issues,
but that's hardly endorsing them. The BQ actually voted against
them in Parliament on some issues and with the Fibs. I see the
BQ and the NDP working together, since they have the most in
common. The Fibs should be wary, since the Tories got burned
by these backstabbers. Then they should also know from personal
experience, because they have dealt with the Parti Quebecois,
the BQ's ideological partner. Layton's ideas are to soak the
rich and make everyone poorer than they were before. In other
words, a toned down version of communism at its' finest. The
chances of the Bloc aligning themselves with Conservatives
are even more remote than the chances of them aligning themselves
with the Fiberals. The best bet is the NDP for the Bloc. Why
don't you read what a former Bloc MP said about her own party?
Why Tories won't bed the Bloc
By PIERRETTE VENNE
Friday, June 4, 2004 - Page A19
In the wake of recent polls, political commentators have begun
to discuss the possibility that the forthcoming election could
produce a minority Conservative government. What just a few
months ago might have seemed pure science fiction now seems a
distinct possibility.
Until very recently, the fallout from the Liberal Party's
scandals was limited to Quebec, and benefited only the Bloc
Québécois. But thanks to Stephen Harper's effective campaigning,
and with help from Dalton McGuinty's Ontario Liberal government,
the Liberal rot has spread like gangrene from coast to coast.
Now the rumour mills are raising the possibility of an alliance
between a Conservative minority government and the Bloc.
This notion of a union between two politically opposite parties
is crazy. Although the Conservatives are not as centralist as the
Liberals and New Democrats, the fact remains that they are a
federalist party; the Bloc, although it studiously avoids
mentioning the fact, is resolutely sovereigntist. Moreover, the
Conservatives are to the right of the political stage, while the
Bloc's leaders are even further to the left than their rank-and-file
supporters.
These facts would be enough to make any marriage between the
two unnatural -- but they're not the only impediments.
Bloc members have shown a visceral animosity toward proposals
issuing from Conservative ranks. In fact, Bloc MPs have sometimes
helped the Liberal government out of a corner by voting with it
-- because they wanted to avoid voting with the Conservatives.
Claiming that the Tories' motions were poorly worded, the Bloc
recently helped the Liberals defeat two Conservative proposals,
even though they were based on principles to which the Bloc could
not reasonably have been opposed (one Tory move proposed fixed-
term elections; the other was an attempt to foil the Liberals'
bid to shut down discussion of the sponsorship scandal by imposing
closure on the work of the public accounts committee).
This past week, it was suggested that the Bloc would acquire
even more influence if it held the balance of power under a minority
Conservative government, than when it formed the Official Opposition
in 1993. Since Bloc MPs have an inbred aversion to the idea of voting
with the Conservatives, clearly such support would be very costly. I
suspect the Bloc would keep a minority Liberal government in power
longer than a Conservative government under the same circumstances.
Besides, how would Bloc MPs feel about assuming responsibilities
with a national dimension -- and the accompanying duty to participate
directly in administering Canada?
Just consider the Bloc's history: When it was first elected in 1993,
it was so uncomfortable in the role of Official Opposition that Lucien
Bouchard even refused to move into Stornoway, the official residence
of the Leader of the Opposition.
In its very early days, long before being taken over by career union
leaders and becoming a branch of the Parti Québécois, the Bloc's roots
were profoundly conservative. Over the years, however, in order to rid
the party of everything that was not appropriately social democratic,
it has undergone several purges. It's hard to see how Gilles Duceppe
and Co. could associate themselves with outsiders who have a
conservative ideology they could not stomach in their own ranks.
But can they resist the seduction of power? The excuse for
succumbing is already to hand: the benefits they might hope to secure
for Quebeckers. Still, it would be surprising to see Bloc MPs running
the risk of another election in the near future in which they'd lose
their seats. Will opportunism prevail over reason?
Pierrette Venne is a former Bloc Québécois MP for Saint-Bruno-
Saint-Hubert.
The Doctor
Layton said it himself about the Clarity clause. So much for
a patrioitic NFibP
sneakysneak
>Layton said it himself about the Clarity clause. So much for
>a patrioitic NFibP
Layton is a fool, plain and simple. The NDP was better off with
Alexa in charge. She's not a fruitbasket like Wacko Jacko.
Steven Kaasgaard
Friday...
Hmmm must of done something magnificent to help out the "gipper" Eh?
Hmmm like maybe selling out his own country the trader!
It doesn't take the public long to forget the irreversible damage
these right wing nuts can muster up in four or five years as Mulroney
did.
I wonder if Brian will have his remote to keep his new toy on
track..in case Harper pops a rivet or his pull string should snap off
while speaking about foreign relations, immigration,privatization of
health care, capital punishment, same sex marriage, bilingualism etc.
etc.
Top Poster
> * gee Brian gets to be a pall bearer for Ronald Reagan's funeral
> Friday...
> Hmmm must of done something magnificent to help out the "gipper" Eh?
> Hmmm like maybe selling out his own country the trader!
What a worm's - eye view of the world you have.
Mulroney and Reagan were friends. That was back when Kannerduh and the
US were friends too.
Mountain Goat
You make the mistake of assuming because the leaders like each other
the countries are friends and if they don't like each other the
countries are enemies. Perhaps you have a worms eye view.
Despite all the caterwauling of various right wing politicians (like
Harper) down to the nutbars like TP and TP no one I met in the US gave
a damn whether we were dumb enough to follow the shrub to Iraq or not.
BTW they both have same credibility of, well, a piece of used TP.
Top Poster
"Mountain Goat" <rmgo...@SPAMshaw.ca> wrote in message
> On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:46:13 GMT, "Top Poster"
> <The_One_...@Ewenowhorules.mobcx45trfg> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Steven Kaasgaard" <23sk...@ica.net> wrote in message
> >news:fc66658a.04060...@posting.google.com...
> >> * gee Brian gets to be a pall bearer for Ronald Reagan's funeral
> >> Friday...
> >> Hmmm must of done something magnificent to help out the "gipper" Eh?
> >> Hmmm like maybe selling out his own country the trader!
> >
> >
> > What a worm's - eye view of the world you have.
> >
> > Mulroney and Reagan were friends. That was back when Kannerduh and
the
> >US were friends too.
> >
> You make the mistake of assuming because the leaders like each other
> the countries are friends and if they don't like each other the
> countries are enemies. Perhaps you have a worms eye view.
>
> Despite all the caterwauling of various right wing politicians (like
> Harper) down to the nutbars like TP and TP no one I met in the US gave
> a damn whether we were dumb enough to follow the shrub to Iraq or not.
What the fuck are you talking about, goat? Are you insane or just
pretending? Who said anything about Iraq?
Who even gives a goats ass about Iraq? <pun intended>
Man, you need to stop sniffing glue or whatever it is that is scrambling
your brain.
>
> BTW they both have same credibility of, well, a piece of used TP.
Or maybe that of a goat.
>
>
> Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.
> Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Make up a dumb tagline and prove to the world that you are a complete
moron.
nshi...@columbus.rr.com
and Adolf, built lots of fires under people, and I guess surely warmed them
for what was left of their lives.
I think that is working on what was already Goat's rather defective, pitiful
brain!(:-)
"Top Poster" <_The_One...@Ewenowhorules.mobcx45trfg> wrote in message
news:V1kxc.66733$OI5.42960@edtnps84...
sneakysneak
>
>Trudeau was just arrogant but it made people follow him and that upset
>the regions which disagreed with his policies.
>But conservatives on the other hand like to harness the east west
>sparring to their favour.
>
>Neo-Conservatives also make a habit of controlling their candidates.
>Harper will only answer to questions regarding his message for the
>day.
>Thus ignoring questions from the crowd in Saskatoon regarding the
>farming crisis because he was only carrying a script for the "daily
>message."
>Not being allowed to wander out of the aquarium Mulroney et al have
>no! Wouldn't want the public's involvement.
>And don't get into any debates you don't have to so you don't expose
>your return to the days of Mulroney when Canada was for sale. With
>privatization on their minds already this is the real intentions of
>the neo-cons. One last big going out of business sale.
>
>Steven Kaasgaard
>
>
>Green Alternative List/WildGreens
>Canada
Ah yes...that's why the West has been a political wasteland for
the federal Liberals for years. The Liberals don't control their
candidates? What a joke! Look at BC and Bill Cunningham, and how
the Martinites are insuring their candidates get the nomination
without the formality of competing for the riding's nomination.
I bet the NDP does this to some extent. Ken Dryden was given one
of the safest Liberal ridings in the country to run in. Trudeau
only catered to the needs of Central Canada as far I'm concerned.
sneakysneak
Jealousy becomes you, no wonder you are with the "Green" Alternative
List/Wild"Greens", it suits. All Reagan accomplished did during his
political career was taken California from a deficit situation to
a surplus, helped lower the US unemployment rate from over 7% to
about 5.6%, and there was roughly 16 millions jobs created under
his watch. Yes, you can question about SDI and Reaganomics, and
the mushrooming national debt. However, I doubt you could find
anyone that share your political ideals to accomplish as much
as he did during his two terms. He is arguably the greatest US
President of the past 50 years. He was also responsible for
helping end the Cold War, not to mention he wanted to reduce
nuclear arms. The leftwing nuts smoke pot, have orgies, don't
shave, and expect government handouts while protesting wars.
They are liberal pacifists who couldn't defend their own
family adequately, never mind their own country if their country
was in a position to go to war. Dumbass...the vast majority of
Canada's exports go to the USA. Of course, he would want to go
to the funeral of an ex-US President, since the USA is Canada's
best export market. I guess you don't care about the Canadian
economy, or Canadian employees.
Mountain Goat
>Well, you know Top, actually both of the Goats leftist heros, old Uncle Joe
>and Adolf, built lots of fires under people, and I guess surely warmed them
>for what was left of their lives.
>
Projecting again nishi ?
"What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist "
-Salman Rushdie
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." -Martin Luther King
"A gentleman is a man who can disagree without being disagreeable." Anon
"Revolution in Politics is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment." Ambrose Bierce
"I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts"
- Mark Twain
Mountain Goat
<_The_One...@Ewenowhorules.mobcx45trfg> wrote:
>
>"Mountain Goat" <rmgo...@SPAMshaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:v1bac0l8te5qeia38...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 23:46:13 GMT, "Top Poster"
>> <The_One_...@Ewenowhorules.mobcx45trfg> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Steven Kaasgaard" <23sk...@ica.net> wrote in message
>> >news:fc66658a.04060...@posting.google.com...
>> >> * gee Brian gets to be a pall bearer for Ronald Reagan's funeral
>> >> Friday...
>> >> Hmmm must of done something magnificent to help out the "gipper" Eh?
>> >> Hmmm like maybe selling out his own country the trader!
>> >
>> >
>> > What a worm's - eye view of the world you have.
>> >
>> > Mulroney and Reagan were friends. That was back when Kannerduh and
>the
>> >US were friends too.
>> >
>> You make the mistake of assuming because the leaders like each other
>> the countries are friends and if they don't like each other the
>> countries are enemies. Perhaps you have a worms eye view.
>>
>> Despite all the caterwauling of various right wing politicians (like
>> Harper) down to the nutbars like TP and TP no one I met in the US gave
>> a damn whether we were dumb enough to follow the shrub to Iraq or not.
>
>
> What the fuck are you talking about, goat? Are you insane or just
>pretending? Who said anything about Iraq?
>
Because all the used TP posters were wailing that the US wouldn't like
us any more if we didn't toddle after them to Iraq. My point is other
than the neocon retards in the shrub administration no American gives
a rats ass if we went or not.
z4869375
wrote:
Are you referring to the $370 billion (*) of debt that Trudeau left or
the $380 billion (*) that Mulroney left?
Perhaps you should start planting the blame of debt on the shoulders
of the people who are truly responsible.
Pearson+Trudeau+Mulroney+Chretien. And since debt is like a snowball
rolling down a mountain, the early guys are most responsible--that
being Pearson and Trudeau.
* - corrected to 2001 dollars.
nshi...@columbus.rr.com
"Mountain Goat" <rmgo...@SPAMshaw.ca> wrote in message
The Doctor
2001 dollars?? Check http://www.fin.gc.ca/dtman/2001-2002/dmr02_4e.html
I wish these pages handled 50 years instead of 15.
Mountain Goat
>Well, Little Goat, burning me is well beyond your limited capacity.
Nice try nishi but attempted belittlement does not work any better
than your mindless insults.
nshi...@columbus.rr.com
people!
"Mountain Goat" <rmgo...@SPAMshaw.ca> wrote in message
z4869375
wrote:
I don't think I need to explain "2001 dollars". Well maybe I should.
Trudeau spent his $25 and $30 billion deficits in years where a dollar
was worth a lot. By the time Mulroney had taken over, the dollar had
been devalued so much, that you couldn't buy very much with the same
$25 and 30 billion deficits.
Peter White
So added to his great deficit Mulroney fucked the value of the dollar too.
Overspending will do that every time.
And you can't wait to get back there. Not too bright are you?
Steven Kaasgaard
They always cater to the areas with the majority of the population.
Thats where the seats are.. but this election will give the country
great interest in what happens in BC with a minority government being
projected.
Just hope its not one lead by the mean spirited neo-cons and Harper. I
don't think the country can survive another Mulroney era.
Steven.
sneakysneak
>
>They always cater to the areas with the majority of the population.
>great interest in what happens in BC with a minority government being
>projected. Just hope its not one lead by the mean spirited neo-cons
>and Harper. I don't think the country can survive another Mulroney
>era.
>
>Steven.
It survived the 1980-1984 Trudeau government which was worse. It
was the worst economic times suffered in Canada since the Great
Depression. Interestingly enough, the worst economic times suffered
since the Great Depression in the USA was when Jimmy Carter was the
President. As bad as Bush has been, he still has a way to go to
catch up to Jimmy Carter in terms of poor economic performance,
although he has already surpassed him in terms of job losses,
which are the worst since Hoover. Everything revolves around the
economy. We can't expect the debt to spiral out of control for
an indefinite period of time, and give the burden of that debt
to future generations, who did nothing to deserve it. You want
a strong social net, fine...but do it through building the
economy with decent paying jobs at full employment, not higher
taxes.