dorrigo
xganon
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Dave Proctor
>does everything there rust like everyone say's it does???
Yes
(the first sensible post to originate at Xganon)
Dave
Greg Rudd
Dave Proctor wrote:
Dave
The question is have you been there???? and what are you doing to
rectify the situation. Are you running for president at this years
agm??
Byron Creek
"Dave Proctor" <da...@spambait.proctor.net> wrote in message
news:ebpjrt00u26evmg53...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2001 08:31:24 -0500, xganon <nob...@xganon.com> wrote:
>
> >does everything there rust like everyone say's it does???
>
> Yes
>
Er, no not everything rusts, those that don't rust rot away instead!!!
Sorry, I'm in a pedantic mood today ;-)
Byron Creek
www.byroncreek.50megs.com
sean
> > >does everything there rust like everyone say's it does???
> >
> > Yes
> >
> > (the first sensible post to originate at Xganon)
> >
> > Dave
>
> Dave
> The question is have you been there???? and what are you doing to
> rectify the situation. Are you running for president at this years
> agm??
>
they would actally use the rollingstock and not just leave it there to rot.
pop
Wow, a sensible, non sarcastic answer from our Dave, what happened? You get
religion! :-)
Pop
Glen
"xganon" <nob...@xganon.com> wrote in message
news:a318b29fa6afe9a0...@xganon.com...
> does everything there rust like everyone say's it does???
>
then this newsgroup would have you believe.My visit was in late May.
The track is in a mess.
Glen
Rjaygee
is advised to keep as far away as possible otherwise you might catch
whatever is afflicting these poor unfortunates. A constant state of
dillusion appears to be the prime requisite. I was in the Hysterical
bookshop today at Redfern buying Digest etc and there was this palooka
asking the staff if they had any of the NSWGR decals from the 42 Class.
Showing great patience they explained they didn't but he might check out a
printer who made full size replicas. He then explained he didn't want full
size but wanted them for his mates 7.5 inch gauge 42 Class. I knew he was
lying as such a boofhead couldn't possibly have mates. I certainly do not
tell anyone I have the slightest interest in railways since the average Joe
thinks your mentally defective. Having been on a couple of fan tours I
believe that view is correct in most cases. As my wife said to me on one
trip, did they let this mob out for a supervised outing. It is unfortunate
because there are many dedicated sensible rail fans who keep a low profile
and would otherwise make a worthwhile contribution to the hobby. I agree,
at least Zig Zag have achieved something by making commercially sensible
compromises.
Cheers
Rod Gayford
"Greg Rudd" <gr...@mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3BBA553C...@mail.usyd.edu.au...
Paul
"Rjaygee" <dartmou...@bigpond.com> wrote :
> I was in the Hysterical
> bookshop today at Redfern buying Digest etc and there was this palooka
> asking the staff if they had any of the NSWGR decals from the 42 Class.
> Showing great patience they explained they didn't but he might check out a
> printer who made full size replicas. He then explained he didn't want
full
> size but wanted them for his mates 7.5 inch gauge 42 Class. I knew he was
> lying as such a boofhead couldn't possibly have mates.
LOL!
> I certainly do not
> tell anyone I have the slightest interest in railways since the average
Joe
> thinks your mentally defective.
I said the exact same thing on Sunday! I work in the public transport
industry. As soon as anyone hears I am interested in transit, they
automatically say something along the lines of "great....another Rainman",
thanks to the many "out there" enthusiasts they have encountered. I no
longer mention it to anyone.
> Having been on a couple of fan tours I
> believe that view is correct in most cases. As my wife said to me on one
> trip, did they let this mob out for a supervised outing.
Again, you've hit the nail on the head. Now, I ask the group the $64,000
question: Why is it that a large number of such people at rail tours (and
rail enthusiasts) match the description outlined above? I have been on one
tour only - and took a mate from work who was curious about the subject
covered on the tour. Needless to say, he got a good laugh at those on the
tour, and at their embarrasing behaviour that made the Director of the
company we visited cringe. My mate stated "this will be my first and last
tour".
Rod, we may have opened up a whoppin' big can of worms here, but your post
was 100% accurate - and now I am curious as to why!
Cheers
Paul
> (as decribed above) make up fan tours, and the hobby It is unfortunate
Bob Grime
footy matches lately or to a motor racing (of any type) meeting or been with
your wife or girlfriend to a doll show!
Bob.
"Paul" <eh...@o.com> wrote in message
news:9pf3m7$a0p$1...@bugstomper.ihug.com.au...
James C.
> tour, and at their embarrasing behaviour that made the Director of the
> company we visited cringe. My mate stated "this will be my first and last
> tour".
> Rod, we may have opened up a whoppin' big can of worms here, but your post
> was 100% accurate - and now I am curious as to >why!
You reminded me of what I saw on the last 3 rail tours I've been on. The
behaviour from some of the enthusiasts would scare off even the most die
hard railfan.
No wonder I always saw more people motorcade/photo the tour train on line
side then those on board.
Cheers
James
Michael
news:e4Fu7.46287$812....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com:
> No wonder I always saw more people motorcade/photo the tour train on
> line
> side then those on board.
People motorcade train tours because they expect something for nothing, and
think the train will pay for itself.
Okay, that may be generalising a little bit, but there are people out there
who just expect train tours to run without giving any contribution
whatsoever.
As for nutcases on fan trips, people will generally not go on a fan trip
altogether, and at the same time not bother chasing it, if they are
affected by loonies, but other people are fairly immune to nut cases. You
just ignore the nut cases and you should be fine.
M.
Paul Nicholson
organisation of rail tours. Apparently it had been an unofficial policy to
try to separate the known "nutcase" type enthusiasts from the "mainstream"
when allocating seats on tours. But several of the "nutcase" types had
worked out what was going on and had threatened legal action under anti
discrimination laws of the practice continued.
Paul in Melbourne.
"Michael" <usene...@gunzel.net> wrote in message
news:Xns91309F389...@203.164.2.41...
Tony Bailey
> industry. As soon as anyone hears I am interested in transit, they
> automatically say something along the lines of "great....another Rainman",
> thanks to the many "out there" enthusiasts they have encountered. I no
> longer mention it to anyone.
>
I used to think that too - until the ARHS bookshop moved to Surry Hills in
the early 70s - and I started to encounter the Rugby League fans going to
matches at the SCG and discovered that there was nothing wrong with most
railfans - in fact they were generally an improvement on the footy fans!
--
Tony Bailey
Mercury World Travel
Mercury Travel Books
mercury...@optusnet.com.au
James C.
> I agree there are some strange rail enthusiasts but have you been to any
> footy matches lately or to a motor racing (of any type) meeting or been
with
> your wife or girlfriend to a doll show!
True,
Having been to the car show, Grand Prix and airshow, compare with people
went for these shows those strange enthusuasts are nothing :)
Cheers
James
rob3827
> ..... several of the "nutcase" types had worked out what was
> going on and had threatened legal action under anti
> discrimination laws of the practice continued
They couldn't have been that much of a nutcase if they were smart enough to
threathen legal action. Then again ... :-)
David Johnson
wrote:
>People motorcade train tours because they expect something for nothing, and
>think the train will pay for itself.
No. Motorcading the train can cost as much or more than riding it, so
that is nonsense. The reason I motorcade trains is because my
interest is in photography. I do not intend to fork out hundreds of
dollars for a train trip, only to have all the photo stops canceled.
David Johnson
trai...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
------------------------------------
These comments are made in a private
capacity and do not represent the
official view of State Rail.
C.O.W.S. Page 11.
Rjaygee
city to read the back page of the Tele. The train fans are the ones cutting
out the pictures.
Cheers
Rod Gayford
"Tony Bailey" <mercury...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3bbb975f$0$32433$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Arthur Marsh
water taken on at Murray Bridge wharf... it rained most of the time, all
photo stops went ahead anyway and travellers were offered a discount on
another trip to Murray Bridge due to the bad weather and dinner bookings
resulting in a barbeque at the station rather than counter meals at the
Bridgeport Hotel.
Arthur.
"David Johnson" <trai...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:hbqnrt0m547493md0...@4ax.com...
Tony Gatt
Greg, the bigger question is:
When you get there, will they let U in - many aus.railers have tried this, and
failed.
They may hvae been able to get in, see the progress if any, and may have even
changed their minds.. instead, they saw rusting hulks.. sad decaying treasures
of a bygone era..
How can you run for president when you can't even get in the gate.. and when was
the last time anyone overthru the current heirachy?
have we found out who "owns" all the material at Dorrigo yet?
The pressing questions never really get answered, they are just me with "see if
you can do better" answers..
on it goes..
Tony Gatt
> wrote:
>
> >People motorcade train tours because they expect something for nothing, and
> >think the train will pay for itself.
>
> No. Motorcading the train can cost as much or more than riding it, so
> that is nonsense. The reason I motorcade trains is because my
> interest is in photography. I do not intend to fork out hundreds of
> dollars for a train trip, only to have all the photo stops canceled.
agreed.
Not only that, with Motorcading, you can capture the subject in different
locations.
Whats the purpose of making the same trip on the same train time and time again?
Been there, done it, next...
Michael
news:GGXu7.18996$Tv6....@news1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au:
>> >People motorcade train tours because they expect something for
>> >nothing, and think the train will pay for itself.
>>
>> No. Motorcading the train can cost as much or more than riding it, so
>> that is nonsense. The reason I motorcade trains is because my
>> interest is in photography. I do not intend to fork out hundreds of
>> dollars for a train trip, only to have all the photo stops canceled.
>
> agreed.
>
> Not only that, with Motorcading, you can capture the subject in
> different locations.
> Whats the purpose of making the same trip on the same train time and
> time again? Been there, done it, next...
If every single railfan took the attitude of both of you the trains simply
wouldn't run. I know I'm not going to, as a volunteer, fork out thousands
of dollars for the path, loco and carriages.
I'm not saying it's wrong to motorcade special trains, but I think you
should give a little bit back occasionally, by riding a train once in a
while, or becoming a member of the societies that run the trains, or even
making a donation. It's not too much to ask is it?
Remember, the trains are a privilege, not a right.
Greg Rudd
Tony Gatt wrote:
> "Greg Rudd" <gr...@mail.usyd.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:3BBA553C...@mail.usyd.edu.au...
> >
> >
> > Dave Proctor wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2001 08:31:24 -0500, xganon <nob...@xganon.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >does everything there rust like everyone say's it does???
> > >
> > > Yes
> > >
> > > (the first sensible post to originate at Xganon)
> > >
> > > Dave
> >
> > Dave
> > The question is have you been there???? and what are you doing to
> > rectify the situation. Are you running for president at this years
> > agm??
>
> Greg, the bigger question is:
>
> When you get there, will they let U in - many aus.railers have tried this, and
> failed.
>
Did you ring first or did you try to get in there making out that you own the place
making out it was your god given right to go on the premises???
> They may hvae been able to get in, see the progress if any, and may have even
> changed their minds.. instead, they saw rusting hulks.. sad decaying treasures
> of a bygone era..
>
> How can you run for president when you can't even get in the gate.. and when was
> the last time anyone overthru the current heirachy?
The question is are you a member??? You cant vote if you are not a member!!!
>
>
> have we found out who "owns" all the material at Dorrigo yet?
>
From what I gather that most of the material has been transferred to the
incorporated body
>
> The pressing questions never really get answered, they are just me with "see if
> you can do better" answers..
>
> on it goes..
Put them in writing to P.O box 200 Dorrigo I am sure they will be answered.
David Johnson
wrote:
>If every single railfan took the attitude of both of you the trains simply
>wouldn't run.
But not all railfans do take that attitude. Many prefer to ride the
trains. On my last trip to QLD, my passenger wanted to ride number
45, but I wanted to photograph it, so he bought a ticket and rode it
to Imbil, and I chased it and took photos. One of their volunteers
even accompanied me down to the tunnel to get a shot.
http://www.railpage.org.au/pix/trainman/45_Gympie.JPG
http://www.railpage.org.au/pix/trainman/45_Gympie_2.JPG
>I'm not saying it's wrong to motorcade special trains, but I think you
>should give a little bit back occasionally, by riding a train once in a
>while,
Yes, I have done that many times. I go on every long distance ARHS
ACT trip. Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten how to run a fan
trip since the passing of Geoff Parkinson. The RTM trips are OK, but
don't run very many fan trips, and the ones I have been on seem to
drop most of the photo stops due to late running.
> or becoming a member of the societies that run the trains,
I am a member of the ARHS ACT, and I was a member of the RTM, but they
weren't interested in keeping me as a member, so I let it lapse.
> or even
>making a donation. It's not too much to ask is it?
I donate my time to the ARHS ACT, and get down there when my roster
allows it.
Michael
>>I'm not saying it's wrong to motorcade special trains, but I think you
>>should give a little bit back occasionally, by riding a train once in a
>>while,
>
> Yes, I have done that many times. I go on every long distance ARHS
> ACT trip. Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten how to run a fan
> trip since the passing of Geoff Parkinson. The RTM trips are OK, but
> don't run very many fan trips, and the ones I have been on seem to
> drop most of the photo stops due to late running.
>
>> or becoming a member of the societies that run the trains,
>
> I am a member of the ARHS ACT, and I was a member of the RTM, but they
> weren't interested in keeping me as a member, so I let it lapse.
>
>> or even
>>making a donation. It's not too much to ask is it?
>
> I donate my time to the ARHS ACT, and get down there when my roster
> allows it.
That's good (-:
You're not the type of person I'm referring to anyway.
There are people though, that give nothing back. At all.
Glenn J-B
even
> > changed their minds.. instead, they saw rusting hulks.. sad decaying
treasures
> > of a bygone era..
> >
> > How can you run for president when you can't even get in the gate.. and
when was
> > the last time anyone overthru the current heirachy?
>
> The question is are you a member??? You cant vote if you are not a
member!!!
>
Why would I become a member in which I am required to expend $45.00 when
they so far they have raised over $2,000,000.00 and still nothing to show
for it except a yard full on rusting relics that you arent allowed to go
near?
Paul Jones
news:Z_dv7.8347$98.4...@news1.rivrw1.nsw.optushome.com.au...
Just wait for them to all die off. That's the only way you can change some
peoples attuides.....
--
Paul Jones
http://users.tpg.com.au/zifnab
Stanley Albert Boulton
While it is very easy to be excessively critical about the failure to
achieve an operating entity at Dorrigo, I think many lessons can be learned
from the tragedy at Dorrigo.. While the intent was good (open the doors when
everything was ready), no volenteer organisation has the capability or
resources to maintain such an ambitous plan ( 2- 3 steamers and a couple of
carriage sets would have been difficult enough, let alone a collection the
size of Dorrigo! if you dont agree with me how many steam engines has the
RTM got servicable at the moment? ).
I think every observer agrees that the Dorrigo group should have commenced
at least limited service back in '84, and progressively opened the line and
the museum to the public - organisations such as Zigzag, RVRM, LVR, and
ARHS-ACT have progressed in this manner and show that it can be done in NSW.
In fact, I dont think many tourist railways anywhere in the world have
suceeded any other way(eventhose with big bank rolls).
One also has to remember that all volenteer societies are prone to a certain
degree of internal politics (we all think we know how the museum should be
run... what we should restore, run etc) and while most organisations have
managed to contain the damage this sort of in-fighting can do to the
organisation, those that haven't, such as Dorrigo, have suffered immensely
in both the eyes of the public and officialdom (who tends to pay for the
big dollar items such as track renewal and locomotive overhaul).
In addition, there is still tends to be a mentality of us and them pervading
the rail preservation movement in NSW making co-operation between
organisations strained or non-existant. Attacking a particular group only
promotes this. This does not help the movement as a whole, and means that
organisations are competing against each other for the limited resources
available to them rather than working co-operatively for a common goal.
Perhaps it may be better to stop knocking the members of Dorrigo for their
lack of progress and start encouraging them to actually start showing that
they can achieve the goal of running a regular service out of Dorrigo.
now speaking of a co-operative utopia:
Program Maitland steam fest 200?...
3830/01/3642 running Sydney - Newcastle return, 3265, 3237 , 3526, 5910
running Newcastle Maitland Singleton/Dungog shuttles, 3112,3013, 3016
running Newcastle Maitland - Kurri.. SMR 10, 30 and RVR 21 together with
5069, 5112 and 5367 recreating non air coal trains from Pelton - Pt Waratah
, and the hilight of the show, 6029 + 6042 on Newdell circuit, with 1210 and
1919 giving us a taste of life in the 19th century....
now that would be a steamfest....i wonder if there are enough crews left?
"xganon" <nob...@xganon.com> wrote in message
news:a318b29fa6afe9a0...@xganon.com...
> does everything there rust like everyone say's it does???
>
>
>
rob3827
>
> Tony Gatt wrote:
> >
> > have we found out who "owns" all the material at Dorrigo yet?
> >
> From what I gather that most of the material has been transferred to the
Wrong answer. Try again!
Tony Gatt
> > When you get there, will they let U in - many aus.railers have tried this,
and
> > failed.
> >
>
> Did you ring first or did you try to get in there making out that you own the
place
> making out it was your god given right to go on the premises???
Oh god, not U too..
Trevor extended an invitation to people to come and have a look for themselves,
and when they did, people ducked and ran for cover.
Answer me this: Is Dorrigo a location that people are encouraged to visit, or is
it private property that requires an invitation?
If it is encouraged, then why not welcome people and prove them wrong?
If it is private, why advertise its existance?
>
> > They may hvae been able to get in, see the progress if any, and may have
even
> > changed their minds.. instead, they saw rusting hulks.. sad decaying
treasures
> > of a bygone era..
> >
> > How can you run for president when you can't even get in the gate.. and when
was
> > the last time anyone overthru the current heirachy?
>
> The question is are you a member??? You cant vote if you are not a member!!!
Why would you become a member?
Dorrigo is a money pit, that promises everything and produces nothing (except
empty bank accounts).
You can't remove the current heirachy, they have spent all the members
"donations" on a dream.. you have to keep them there so that maybe one day their
dream will become your reality.
Fools and their money...
> > have we found out who "owns" all the material at Dorrigo yet?
> >
>
> From what I gather that most of the material has been transferred to the
> incorporated body
"From what I gather", so you're not a member either?
Does anybody really know the answers to all the questions?
> > The pressing questions never really get answered, they are just me with "see
if
> > you can do better" answers..
> >
> > on it goes..
>
> Put them in writing to P.O box 200 Dorrigo I am sure they will be answered.
Why would they tell me in a letter, I can't get a straight answer here or in
private emails from Dorrigo members...
Even there newsletter tells you alot without saying anything...
My biggest complaint with these threads is that DSRM members come onboard
defending without answering the simplest of questions. Even if I asked nicely, I
would still not get the answers I was looking for.. and then you come along
defending them, and just when I think you might give an answer, you say "from
what I gather"...
*sigh*
Dorrigo - The 8th wonder (wonder if anything will EVER run again.....)
>
>
Tony Gatt
Tony.
"Stanley Albert Boulton" <so...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:e3iv7.52880$812....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Trevor Edmonds
> When you get there, will they let U in - many aus.railers have tried this,
and
> failed.
Try arranging it in advance.
> They may hvae been able to get in, see the progress if any, and may have
even
> changed their minds.. instead, they saw rusting hulks.. sad decaying
treasures
> of a bygone era..
Most were pleasantly surprised.
> How can you run for president when you can't even get in the gate.. and
when was
> the last time anyone overthru the current heirachy?
The current heirachy can be overthrown any time the membership wants. The
fact that it has not happened (and is unlikely to happen any time soon)
simply shows that the members are satisfied with the leadership.
> have we found out who "owns" all the material at Dorrigo yet?
This was canvassed in detail some time ago.
> The pressing questions never really get answered, they are just me with
"see if
> you can do better" answers..
The answers are given, but are ignored (eg who owns the stock).
> on it goes..
And it does.
Trevor
Trevor Edmonds
> Why would I become a member in which I am required to expend $45.00 when
> they so far they have raised over $2,000,000.00 and still nothing to show
> for it except a yard full on rusting relics that you arent allowed to go
> near?
If you have no interest in DSRM why even bother to comment?
Trevor Edmonds
> Trevor extended an invitation to people to come and have a look for
themselves,
> and when they did, people ducked and ran for cover.
>
> Answer me this: Is Dorrigo a location that people are encouraged to visit,
or is
> it private property that requires an invitation?
>
> If it is encouraged, then why not welcome people and prove them wrong?
> If it is private, why advertise its existance?
You are welcome to come and have a look. BUT... in case you have not noticed
we are not open, so we are not currently geared to people arriving at random
times with the expectation that they can be immediately accomodated.
> Why would you become a member?
>
> Dorrigo is a money pit, that promises everything and produces nothing
(except
> empty bank accounts).
> You can't remove the current heirachy, they have spent all the members
> "donations" on a dream.. you have to keep them there so that maybe one day
their
> dream will become your reality.
>
> Fools and their money...
Its you choice to join or not. Obviously you would choose not to, so we
should then become irrelevent to you.
We can remove the current heirarchy any time we want to. We choose not to.
That is our right as members.
> > > have we found out who "owns" all the material at Dorrigo yet?
I have answered this question at least 3 times. But just in case you missed
it...
The ownership of the rolling stock depends on when it was purchased. A few
pieces are owned by Keith Jones personally. The bulk of purchases prior to
the mid 80s are owned by the unincorporated body with Keith as trustee. Some
are owned by Fenit Holdings which is a shelf company thhat was purchased to
hold assets pending incorporation and the rest is owned by Dorrigo Steam
Railway & Museum Ltd.
A trust is being set up and will soon take over the ownership of the rolling
stock and the land.
Does this answer your question?
The ownership is not an issue within DSRM. Even the trust is not a priority
to most of the membership. Can you explain why it is such a major issue for
a non-member?
>I can't get a straight answer here or in private emails from Dorrigo
members...
To what question?
> My biggest complaint with these threads is that DSRM members come onboard
> defending without answering the simplest of questions. Even if I asked
nicely, I
> would still not get the answers I was looking for..
Again which questions have we avoided?
Paul
"Trevor Edmonds" <trevor_...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote
Geez, remind me not to get into business with you! A potential customer (in
this case, member) just told you he wouldn't invest because he feels that
there are problems, and you've suggested he not comment. Tsk, tsk. What a
way to attract members!
"brian"_,
I suppose the only question that needs to be answered is
WHEN IS THE MUSEUM GOING TO BE OPENED AND WHEN WILL TRAINS RUN SO THAT REVENUE CAN BE RAISED TO REPAIR/REBUILD SOME OF MANY ITEMS IN STORE BEFORE THEY ARE PAST THE POINT OF NO RETURN (IF THEY HAVE NOT ALREADY REACHED THAT STAGE.
Must admit I have not been to the site since 1996. I suppose thats because its in the middle of nowhere. With all the closed lines closer to Sydney was it a mistake to move to Dorrigo in the first place
Brian
Trevor Edmonds
Didn't sound like a potential member to me!
>
>
David Johnson
<trevor_...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>The current heirachy can be overthrown any time the membership wants. The
>fact that it has not happened (and is unlikely to happen any time soon)
>simply shows that the members are satisfied with the leadership.
The members were satisfied with the leadership at Waco, and they all
killed themselves.
Paul
Paul
"David Johnson" <trai...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:f4utrt4qps916c09o...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 6 Oct 2001 10:08:10 +1000, "Trevor Edmonds"
> <trevor_...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>
> >The current heirachy can be overthrown any time the membership wants. The
> >fact that it has not happened (and is unlikely to happen any time soon)
> >simply shows that the members are satisfied with the leadership.
>
> The members were satisfied with the leadership at Waco, and they all
> killed themselves.
So we can expect a Dorrigo telemovie very soon?
Tony Gatt
Paul, they don't want us as members, we would just upset what they are doing by
actually trying to get something happening. All they want to do is collect
stuff, they don't actually want to do anything with it..
Enuff railfans with an interest in actullay doing something productive WOULD
re-arrange the aims and acheivements of DSRM, and we couldn't have that, could
we?
Its a pity very little of the $2M has been spent on restoration.
Not even the armed forces are large enough to be able to work on and restore
that collection in yours or my lifetime :(
>
>
Tony Gatt
<Brian> wrote in message news:3bbef395$1...@nexus.comcen.com.au...
>
> I suppose the only question that needs to be answered is
>
> WHEN IS THE MUSEUM GOING TO BE OPENED AND WHEN WILL TRAINS RUN SO THAT REVENUE
CAN BE RAISED TO REPAIR/REBUILD SOME OF MANY ITEMS IN STORE BEFORE THEY ARE PAST
THE POINT OF NO RETURN (IF THEY HAVE NOT ALREADY REACHED THAT STAGE.
Brian, we have been asking this question forever, and the only answers we get
are the same old ones telling us they have already answered the questions.
No-one will ever answer the questions, because no-one knows.
>
> Must admit I have not been to the site since 1996. I suppose thats because its
in the middle of nowhere. With all the closed lines closer to Sydney was it a
mistake to move to Dorrigo in the first place
Maybe that was the idea.. no-one will go there to bother them..
> Brian
Tony
Tony Gatt
"Trevor Edmonds" <trevor_...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:3bbef52c$0$9268$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Tony Gatt wrote...
>
> > Trevor extended an invitation to people to come and have a look for
> themselves,
> > and when they did, people ducked and ran for cover.
> >
> > Answer me this: Is Dorrigo a location that people are encouraged to visit,
> or is
> > it private property that requires an invitation?
> >
> > If it is encouraged, then why not welcome people and prove them wrong?
> > If it is private, why advertise its existance?
>
> You are welcome to come and have a look. BUT... in case you have not noticed
> we are not open, so we are not currently geared to people arriving at random
> times with the expectation that they can be immediately accomodated.
Thats NOT what you said.. you extended the invitation,I know on a couple of
occasions, only 2 people turned up.
Not real hard to accomodate by my way of thinking..
You try hard here to prove everybody wrong in their information, so why turn
them away if they failed to call? Too hard to make an effort?
>
> > Why would you become a member?
> >
> > Dorrigo is a money pit, that promises everything and produces nothing
> (except
> > empty bank accounts).
> > You can't remove the current heirachy, they have spent all the members
> > "donations" on a dream.. you have to keep them there so that maybe one day
> their
> > dream will become your reality.
> >
> > Fools and their money...
>
> Its you choice to join or not. Obviously you would choose not to, so we
> should then become irrelevent to you.
No, you shouldn't become irrelevant, you have stated by public forum that you
are a Museum, and with that people are interested in looking at the heritage of
rail. This is what DSRM have set out to do, yet every attempt to allow people to
understand them is shrouded. If this is how you treat the public wanting
information before you open, what will be standard if you do open?
>
> We can remove the current heirarchy any time we want to. We choose not to.
> That is our right as members.
I never doubted the process.
>
> > > > have we found out who "owns" all the material at Dorrigo yet?
>
> I have answered this question at least 3 times. But just in case you missed
> it...
>
> The ownership of the rolling stock depends on when it was purchased. A few
> pieces are owned by Keith Jones personally. The bulk of purchases prior to
> the mid 80s are owned by the unincorporated body with Keith as trustee. Some
> are owned by Fenit Holdings which is a shelf company thhat was purchased to
> hold assets pending incorporation and the rest is owned by Dorrigo Steam
> Railway & Museum Ltd.
Who is DRSM Ltd... the pattern is forming now is it not?
Fenit Holdings... and the Director is...
So what the basis of this means is.. if Dorrigo closed tomorrow, Keith owns his
stuff, Keiths owns the stuff in Trust, and if he is the director of Fenit
Holdings and there is no clause for asset distribution after company wind up..
then I think you can work that out..
>
> A trust is being set up and will soon take over the ownership of the rolling
> stock and the land.
Ahhh, but it hasn't been set up.. why has it taken so long for a trust to be
established?
I can start the process of Company Registration over the internet, so why would
it take this long for a trust to be formed...
>
> Does this answer your question?
Now that I looked up the extra ordinary information, not really..
>
> The ownership is not an issue within DSRM. Even the trust is not a priority
> to most of the membership. Can you explain why it is such a major issue for
> a non-member?
>
> >I can't get a straight answer here or in private emails from Dorrigo
> members...
>
> To what question?
>
> > My biggest complaint with these threads is that DSRM members come onboard
> > defending without answering the simplest of questions. Even if I asked
> nicely, I
> > would still not get the answers I was looking for..
>
> Again which questions have we avoided?
until this post Trevor, nearly all of them..
You could have answered very easily as you did, but you quote dates on which you
answered, cut and paste of the original answer is quicker.
Why are you so secretive in information about your club, you obviously care for
its existance, so why not share the good details with the world... or aren't you
allowed to?
Tony.
>
>
>
>
Michael
And the sad part is? They will keep hoarding it to themselves regardless of
wheter there is someone out there that has an interest in it or not, i.e.
wanting to purchase...
M.
Michael
> Its you choice to join or not. Obviously you would choose not to, so we
> should then become irrelevent to you.
>
> We can remove the current heirarchy any time we want to. We choose not
> to. That is our right as members.
>
>> > > have we found out who "owns" all the material at Dorrigo yet?
>
> I have answered this question at least 3 times. But just in case you
> missed it...
>
> The ownership of the rolling stock depends on when it was purchased. A
> few pieces are owned by Keith Jones personally. The bulk of purchases
> prior to the mid 80s are owned by the unincorporated body with Keith as
> trustee. Some are owned by Fenit Holdings which is a shelf company
> thhat was purchased to hold assets pending incorporation and the rest
> is owned by Dorrigo Steam Railway & Museum Ltd.
In other words, if anyone does overthrow the current heirarchy, the
rollingstock can and probably will go with them, correct? I am not talking
about "soon" (which was the same thing you said over 12 months ago), but
I'm talking about "now".
Jonathan Boles
> > doing by actually trying to get something happening. All they want to
> > do is collect stuff, they don't actually want to do anything with it..
> >
> > Enuff railfans with an interest in actullay doing something productive
> > WOULD re-arrange the aims and acheivements of DSRM, and we couldn't
> > have that, could we?
> >
> > Its a pity very little of the $2M has been spent on restoration.
> > Not even the armed forces are large enough to be able to work on and
> > restore that collection in yours or my lifetime :(
>
> And the sad part is? They will keep hoarding it to themselves regardless
of
> wheter there is someone out there that has an interest in it or not, i.e.
> wanting to purchase...
Hmmm I wonder what Mr Edmonds has to say.
--
Rgds
J. Boles
Sydney, Australia
--------------------------------------------------
jaboles AT ihug DOT com DOT au
>>>>SPAMMERS!!! dfadjas...@asdahdgehgsa.net HAHAHAHAHA! <<<<
--------------------------------------------------
Remove 'NOSPAM' when replying (newsgroups only)
Trevor Edmonds
> > You are welcome to come and have a look. BUT... in case you have not
noticed
> > we are not open, so we are not currently geared to people arriving at
random
> > times with the expectation that they can be immediately accomodated.
>
> Thats NOT what you said.. you extended the invitation,I know on a couple
of
> occasions, only 2 people turned up.
> Not real hard to accomodate by my way of thinking..
> You try hard here to prove everybody wrong in their information, so why
turn
> them away if they failed to call? Too hard to make an effort?
Its not the numbers, its purely the timing. We do not have someone sitting
around with nothing else to do than to give tours. All that was required was
a phone call to arrange a mutually convenient time.
> > Its you choice to join or not. Obviously you would choose not to, so we
> > should then become irrelevant to you.
>
> No, you shouldn't become irrelevant, you have stated by public forum that
you
> are a Museum, and with that people are interested in looking at the
heritage of
> rail. This is what DSRM have set out to do, yet every attempt to allow
people to
> understand them is shrouded. If this is how you treat the public wanting
> information before you open, what will be standard if you do open?
Yes that is what we have set out to do, but we are still working towards it.
When we are open, then anyone who visits will be able to see what is on
display. Not necessarily the whole collection. Try turning up to the
Powerhouse Museum unannounced and asking to see the steam tram motor, or
their Manning Wardle.
> > The ownership of the rolling stock depends on when it was purchased. A
few
> > pieces are owned by Keith Jones personally. The bulk of purchases prior
to
> > the mid 80s are owned by the unincorporated body with Keith as trustee.
Some
> > are owned by Fenit Holdings which is a shelf company that was purchased
to
> > hold assets pending incorporation and the rest is owned by Dorrigo Steam
> > Railway & Museum Ltd.
>
> Who is DRSM Ltd... the pattern is forming now is it not?
A non profit company with 700 members and 7 directors.
> Fenit Holdings... and the Director is...
>
> So what the basis of this means is.. if Dorrigo closed tomorrow, Keith
owns his
> stuff, Keiths owns the stuff in Trust, and if he is the director of Fenit
> Holdings and there is no clause for asset distribution after company wind
up..
> then I think you can work that out..
There are several areas here. If Dorrigo closed tomorrow there would be a
mess to clear up, but not perhaps as bad as you make out. The stock owned
personally by Keith would still be his. Tis would only affect a few items
(about 3% of the collection). Keith as trustee for the unincorporated group
does not give him beneficial ownership. I am not sure on the legal position
of Fenit in the event of liquidation.
In any event nobody within Dorrigo expects closure. We will keep moving
towards the legal structure detailed on the web site www.dsrm.org.au.
> > A trust is being set up and will soon take over the ownership of the
rolling
> > stock and the land.
>
> Ahhh, but it hasn't been set up.. why has it taken so long for a trust to
be
> established?
> I can start the process of Company Registration over the internet, so why
would
> it take this long for a trust to be formed...
Its not the same as setting up a company. The trust deed has to specify what
can and cannot be done by the trustees. If the wording is too lose it may
allow trustees at some time to do things which we did not intend to allow.
On the other hand making the wording too tight could prevent the trustees
doing something we would want them to. Its like writing a constitution.
While the trust deed can be changed in the future, its not an easy process.
The trust is all but in place. Again, this is not a big issue within DSRM.
> > Does this answer your question?
>
> Now that I looked up the extra ordinary information, not really..
So what are you now seeking?
> > Again which questions have we avoided?
>
> until this post Trevor, nearly all of them..
I have not provided anything new. All this has previously been provided to
aus.rail.
> Why are you so secretive in information about your club, you obviously
care for
> its existance, so why not share the good details with the world... or
aren't you
> allowed to?
What secrecy? DSRM Ltd is a registered company, with all its annual reports
and similar readily available. Everything else you have asked about has been
in our newsletters. I am not suggesting that you should read through 25
years of newsletters, merely pointing out that it has been published.
The comments I have made about DSRM are my own opinions. I am not told what
my opinions are.
Trevor
Michael
>> Fenit Holdings... and the Director is...
>>
>> So what the basis of this means is.. if Dorrigo closed tomorrow, Keith
>> owns his stuff, Keiths owns the stuff in Trust, and if he is the
>> director of Fenit Holdings and there is no clause for asset
>> distribution after company wind up.. then I think you can work that
>> out..
>
> There are several areas here. If Dorrigo closed tomorrow there would be
> a mess to clear up, but not perhaps as bad as you make out. The stock
> owned personally by Keith would still be his. Tis would only affect a
> few items (about 3% of the collection). Keith as trustee for the
> unincorporated group does not give him beneficial ownership. I am not
> sure on the legal position of Fenit in the event of liquidation.
>
> In any event nobody within Dorrigo expects closure. We will keep moving
> towards the legal structure detailed on the web site www.dsrm.org.au.
I think the question Tony was asking, was who the directors of Fenit
Holdings are. In such case, if DSRM were to be taken over, *could* Fenit
Holdings and Keith Jones take all their rollingstock with them. Just to
clarify the question, I am not asking if they "will" or "might", but if it
is possible.
M.
Paul
"Trevor Edmonds" <trevor_...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote
> In any event nobody within Dorrigo expects closure.
Wouldn't you have to open first?!?!
rob3827
"Trevor Edmonds" <trevor_...@dingoblue.net.au>
> ..... A trust is being set up and will soon take over the ownership of the
> rolling stock and the land.
>
> ..... The ownership is not an issue within DSRM. Even the trust is not
> a priority to most of the membership.
Isn't this a breach of the orders of the Supreme Court of NSW?
I have just read the Dorrigo newsletter dated 4th February, 1999. It says in
part that Supreme Court orders were made ..... "that Keith Jones and Fenit
Holdings transfer the full legal and beneficial ownership of ..... property
held upon trust .... to either (as determined by Keith Jones): (i) the
trustees of a charitable trust to be constituted and known as the Dorrigo
Railway Museum Trust; or (ii) a nominee determined by Keith Jones; or,
failing that determination and transfer within 24 months, to Dorrigo
Limited".
"WITHIN 24 MONTHS" it said. So legally, seeing the orders were made 32
months ago, Dorrigo Steam Railway & Museum Ltd does in fact appear to be the
legal owner.
So why still the talk of a trust?
Dave Proctor
wrote:
I am predicting that this post will go unanswered by the Dorrigo
minions.
Dave
David Johnson
<trevor_...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>Its not the numbers, its purely the timing. We do not have someone sitting
>around with nothing else to do than to give tours. All that was required was
>a phone call to arrange a mutually convenient time.
When I attempted to visit, I did not know when I would be arriving.
Originally I thought it would be one afternoon, but it ended up being
the next morning. I had to be in Brisbane that afternoon, so the only
convenient time was right then, and I didn't know until that morning
what time I would arrive. I stopped in Dorrigo and used a payphone to
attempt to ring ahead, but had no end of trouble. I couldn't find a
phone number for the museum, and tried Keith's private number, but
that was unanswered. When I drove down Tallowood Street, I found a
car parked next to the house with all the doors open, and someone
inside peeking through the curtains, but they refused to answer the
door. I left with images of Psycho (The house on the hill) going
through my mind.
Trevor Edmonds
> I think the question Tony was asking, was who the directors of Fenit
> Holdings are. In such case, if DSRM were to be taken over, *could* Fenit
> Holdings and Keith Jones take all their rollingstock with them. Just to
> clarify the question, I am not asking if they "will" or "might", but if it
> is possible.
The Fenit directors are some of the DSRM Ltd directors (Keith is one of
them). The short answer to your question is a take over of DSRM would
probably produce a mess, and some break up of the collection. That situation
is what the trust is designed to avoid.
Most preservation groups would probably be in a similar position if there
was a take over.
Trevor
Trevor Edmonds
> Isn't this a breach of the orders of the Supreme Court of NSW?
>
> I have just read the Dorrigo newsletter dated 4th February, 1999. It says
in
> part that Supreme Court orders were made ..... "that Keith Jones and Fenit
> Holdings transfer the full legal and beneficial ownership of .....
property
> held upon trust .... to either (as determined by Keith Jones): (i) the
> trustees of a charitable trust to be constituted and known as the Dorrigo
> Railway Museum Trust; or (ii) a nominee determined by Keith Jones; or,
> failing that determination and transfer within 24 months, to Dorrigo
> Limited".
>
> "WITHIN 24 MONTHS" it said. So legally, seeing the orders were made 32
> months ago, Dorrigo Steam Railway & Museum Ltd does in fact appear to be
the
> legal owner.
>
> So why still the talk of a trust?
Good point. The trust has taken longer than anticipated to set up. I will
happen soon.
rob3827
> What secrecy? DSRM Ltd is a registered company, with all its annual
> reports and similar readily available. Everything else you have asked
> about has been in our newsletters. I am not suggesting that you should
> read through 25 years of newsletters, merely pointing out that it has
> been published.
Well, ..... after reading many of the newsletters, the impression that one
comes away with is that many things are going to happen, but never do. As an
example, you said elsewhere in aus.rail that "a trust is being set up and
will soon take over the ownership of the rolling stock and the land." ......
but the Trust has been going to happen since at least 1988, from what I
could gather.
Below are a few quotes about The Trust you mention. Apologies for the length
of the posting, or if any quote appears to be taken out of context, but it
IS from 13 years worth of your museum's newsletters.
The intention here was not to support your argument that information about
DSRM is readily available (but no doubt you will take it that way), but to
demonstrate that everything about the DSRM points to 25 years of promises
(opening to the public, running trains, building an exhibit hall, building a
public toilet block, slowing down the collecting of exhibits) .....
everything seems to be "real soon now", but never seems to quite get there.
Attention Aus.Railers: If you are sick of this thread, don't bother reading
any further .... it is only direct quotes from those DSRM newsletters, which
I am sure most of you have found to be "readily available". :-)
=======================================
No.4/1988, 14th June, 1988
...... For example, we could look at the legalities of setting up a TRUST,
perhaps called "THE DORRIGO STEAM RAILWAY AND MUSEUM TRUST". This body would
have a very small number of permanent TRUSTEES, bound by very strict
guidelines. The TRUST would probably own the collection, own the land and
buildings and lease the line from the STATE RAIL AUTHORITY.
No.9/1989, 17th October, 1989.
For many years we have extolled the virtues of having the Museum's assets in
a TRUST, quite separate to the Company that holds the Museum Membership and
running rights on the DORRIGO BRANCH LINE.
No.2/1990, 26th February, 1990.
Now the new Company has the ability to purchase items, pending the formation
of a TRUST, or another Company, designed to hold all of the Museum's assets.
It is proposed that all assets whether held by the old DORRIGO STEAM RAILWAY
AND MUSEUM, FENIT HOLDINGS PTY. LTD. (50 ACRES), KEITH JONES or DORRIGO
STEAM RAILWAY AND MUSEUM LIMITED, will be transferred PERMANENTLY to this
proposed new body.
No.5/1990, 10th May, 1990.
The TRUST to which we propose to transfer all of the assets of the old
museum, the new Company, FENIT HOLDINGS PTY. LTD. and my own personal
collection, is well advanced in its drafting, but is constantly receiving
improvements prior to its implementation.
No.7/1990, 6th August, 1990.
I will soon be circulating to all "Members" eligible to vote, a copy of the
TRUST deed. It is extremely important that the TRUST deed be PERFECT first
time, because it cannot be varied once it is enacted, unlike the Company's
Articles which can be varied by its Members.
No.9/1990, 27th September, 1990.
THE TRUST:
The trust will have a very tight set of guidelines which will be
administered by a small number of TRUSTEES. The guidelines will ensure;
authenticity, that the collection remains intact, that future significant
items are added to the collection, the collection is restored and displayed
to the public, that the Company has available to it the necessary
locomotives and rolling stock, etc.
1. The TRUST will OWN all major assets; the collection, the LAND that is
not part of the DORRIGO BRANCH LINE, the tools, workshop machinery, spare
parts and buildings, etc.
2. The TRUST will establish the STATIC MUSEUM DISPLAY and supervise the
restoration and display of the collection generally.
3. The TRUST will charge admission to the static display as well as selling
refreshments, souvenirs and memorabilia. This ensures it has an income with
which to house, restore and maintain the collection.
4. The TRUST will support the Company financially, if and when it can.
5. The TRUST will pursue additional worthwhile exhibits for the display.
6. The TRUST will utilize appropriate volunteer labour supplied by the
Company, to restore and maintain the collection.
An appropriate agreement between the TRUST and the COMPANY will be put in
place to cover the overhaul and maintenance of the locomotives and rolling
stock that are used by the Company.
BOTH the Company and the Trust will be able to have full time PAID staff.
It is likely that employees would be specialists in various fields; for
instance boilermakers, steam locomotive fitters, bridge ganger, track
gangers, secretary, carriage carpenter, fitter and turner, publicity
officer, station master, etc., etc.
The main objectives of having two bodies within the one "Museum" are as
follows:-
(a) Having the ownership of the irreplaceable collection in the hands of
the TRUST, divorces it from risk in the case of the Company being wound up,
for bankruptcy for instance.
(b) The TRUST prevents corporate takeover of the assets.
(c) It will guarantee forever that the Museums collection will be
authentic, ongoing, comprehensive, educational and entertaining for the
public.
On the outside it will appear that the whole "Museum" is one body and for
most practical purposes it will be. It is important though to legally keep
the collection as far removed from risk as possible.
1992 DSRM Ltd Annual Report - 1st November 1992.
The Directors intend to establish a separate Trust for the purpose of owning
the two blocks of land and the locomotives and rolling stock owned by both
this company and the unincorporated entity, Dorrigo Steam Railway and
Museum.
1993 DSRM Ltd Annual Report - 3rd November 1993.
The Directors intend to establish a separate Trust for the purpose of owning
the two blocks of land and the locomotives and rolling stock owned by both
this company and the unincorporated entity, Dorrigo Steam Railway and
Museum.
1994 DSRM Ltd Annual Report - 3rd November 1994.
The Directors intend to establish a separate Trust for the purposes of
owning this land and another 3 1/2 acre block at Dorrigo held by Mr. K.M.
Jones, a Director, and the locomotives and rolling stock owned by both this
company and the unincorporated entity, Dorrigo Steam Railway and Museum.
No.11/1995 - 27th November, 1995
CORPORATE STRUCTURE OF THE MUSEUM - The master plan for DSR&M's corporate
future involves two distinct yet closely related entities, namely: · Dorrigo
Steam Railway and Museum Limited; and · Dorrigo Railway Museum Trust. The
first of these has been running for six years. Legal work for the
establishment of the Trust is almost complete.
1996 DSRM Ltd Annual Report - 20th October, 1996.
The Directors intend to establish a separate Trust for the purposes of
owning this land (the 50 acre block) and another 3.5 acre block at Dorrigo
held by Mr K M Jones, a Director, the locomotives and rolling stock owned by
this Company and the locomotives and rolling stock which are to be
transferred from the unincorporated entity, Dorrigo Steam Railway and Museum
when the settlement proceedings are completed.
1997 DSRM Ltd Annual Report - 9th October, 1997.
The Directors intend to establish a separate Trust for the purposes of
owning this land (the 50 acre block) and another 3.5 acre block at Dorrigo
held by Mr K M Jones, a Director, the locomotives and rolling stock owned by
this Company and the locomotives and wiling stock which are to be
transferred from the unincorporated entity, Dorrigo Steam Railway and Museum
when the settlement proceedings are completed.
1998 DSRM Ltd Annual Report - 6th November, 1998.
The Directors intend to establish a separate Trust for the purposes of
owning this land (the 50 acre block) and another 3.5 acre block at Dorrigo
held by Mr K M Jones, a Director, the locomotives and rolling stock owned by
this Company and the locomotives and rolling stock which are to be
transferred from the unincorporated entity, Dorrigo Steam Railway and Museum
when a settlement is completed.
2000 DSRM Ltd Annual Report - 31st of October, 2000.
The Directors intend to establish a separate Trust for the purposes of
owning this land (the 50 acre block) and another 3.5 acre block at Dorrigo
held by Mr K. M. Jones, a Director.
AUS.RAIL - Trevor Edmonds wrote on 6th October 2001
Dave Proctor
That is what has been said for the last 13 years (according to rob's
other excellent post).
Dave
Trevor Edmonds
> Well, ..... after reading many of the newsletters, the impression that one
> comes away with is that many things are going to happen, but never do. As
an
> example, you said elsewhere in aus.rail that "a trust is being set up and
> will soon take over the ownership of the rolling stock and the land."
......
> but the Trust has been going to happen since at least 1988, from what I
> could gather.
True. Nothing could be done while the court cases were running. The
conclusion of the legal action has freed us of a number of constraints. The
last time I discussed this issue with some of the directors, the feeling was
that the trust would be completed this year.
> Below are a few quotes about The Trust you mention. Apologies for the
length
> of the posting, or if any quote appears to be taken out of context, but it
> IS from 13 years worth of your museum's newsletters.
Again, for most of that period everything was frozen by the court case.
> The intention here was not to support your argument that information about
> DSRM is readily available (but no doubt you will take it that way), but to
> demonstrate that everything about the DSRM points to 25 years of promises
> (opening to the public, running trains, building an exhibit hall, building
a
> public toilet block, slowing down the collecting of exhibits) .....
> everything seems to be "real soon now", but never seems to quite get
there.
And we are still working towards a public opening as fast as our resources
will allow. We all want to get to that point. Once we get a public opening
we will get the cash flow to fund our further development. Unfortunately
there are several steps which need to be completed first. Before we can
start building the display hall, we have to complete the earthworks and
track laying. Given the restrictions that have been placed on the earthworks
this is a slow process, but we will get there.
Trevor
Stuart Thyer
looong time they are going to do certain things, go back and read any groups
newsletters and you will find many many dreams, delusions and statements of
grandeur.
Through my involvement in Steamrail, you can go back to the late 80's and
read all about how we were going to restore the A2. It's still in bits.
In the mid 90's, former management had the makings of a vast standard gauge
fleet assembled. Where is it now? Spread to the 4 winds, our only running
car out of that whole costly exercise is a LAN on broad gauge.
All groups plan and think forward, it's just that the test of time sees some
move nowhere and some backwards and just a couple forwards.
Disclaimer: While we haven't done up the A2, there are plans and moves afoot
to restart the project. Also in the intervening years we have maintained and
expanded our fleet to include 4 operating steam locos (1 more only months
away) 5 mainline diesels and over 30 running carriages. Just to keep the
current fleet going is an exercise in itself.
Maybe Dorrigo is just too ambitious for its resources, but hey, someone will
probably read the aus.rail archives and laugh at my stating the A2 project
was going to restart if it is still a pile of bits.
Stuart Thyer
Photographer
University of Melbourne
Rjaygee
look like I did when I was there. Do you really think the police are going
to come up and throw you off. What are they going to do about it. Stuff all
I suggest.
Cheers
Rod Gayford
"David Johnson" <trai...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:ftj4stkot0edc4eg6...@4ax.com...
Tony Gatt
Thanks Rob3827
Very informative.
"rob3827" <rob...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
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Joe Blogggs
the old one still links to glenraegh.
Trevor Edmonds wrote in message
<3bc0deb5$0$32427$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au>...
rob3827
> How come the old and "new official" webpages don't link.
> the old one still links to glenraegh.
Because the "old" site was created by a member of DSRM, allegedly much to
the disgust of "The Board", from what their internet spokesperson, Mr Trevor
Edmonds, has explained a few times on this newsgroup.
Like all volunteer organisations, members try to do their best, but just get
crapped on for their efforts by a few egocentric .... sorry, I am only
joking. That doesn't apply to rail enthusiast groups because they are all,
without exception, perfect examples of how social interaction should be.
Please forgive me.
keith malcolm
> Yes, I have done that many times. I go on every long distance ARHS
> ACT trip. Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten how to run a fan
> trip since the passing of Geoff Parkinson.
I wouldn't say the ARHS have "forgotten" how to run fan trips. We just
haven't run one in a long while because they don't make enough money, they
barely cover "direct" costs. Rail fans don't seem to be prepared to pay what
it costs to run the trains, so we try to make the trips acceptable to the
general public, and most of them don't really want to go to some out of the
way wheat silo just because you can. If you can come up with a good idea for
a fan trip, which is commercially viable then suggest it to the tours
committee.
Dave Malcolm