Mono wav files for HQP

[Jeffrey Robbins]

Hi all. How would I split the 24/192 AL filter — both cfg and wav — for the mono HQP format? Thanks. JCR

[Mitch Barnett]

Jeffrey, you can download an audio editor like Audacity and split the stereo .wav correction filter into two mono filters for HQP:
https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/splitting_and_joining_stereo_tracks.html It is the 2nd procedure down.
Cheers, Mitch

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[Jeffrey Robbins]

Thanks, Mitch. I have Audacity already! I will check it out. JCR

[Jeffrey Robbins]

Hi all. Well, the problem is that when opening the wav files in Audacity, there are 15 different streams. I suppose this is because the cfg is for a MCH DAC. Of course, I have no idea how to properly reconstruct a L and R mono wav file set front this. Bernt, have you worked with HQP in the past and is there a way to do it? Thanks. JCR

[Barry]

Would be really great if Audiolense can output mono files directly for HQP

[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

The number of streams is due to your speaker setup. 15 different streams are one for each speaker/driver and then you can have a few for the bass management as well. How they are supposed to be used is described in the config file. You can read about the config by googling John Pavel Convolver. It is based on his design.

I haven't worked with HQP and will likely not. But if they want to support DSP they should make a proper convolver. It is as easy for them to make a function that can handle a multi channel file as it is for me to make a single channel export. It will be a bit harder for them to make functionality to read configuration files, but this type of information is needed to handle complex setups where it is a little more to it than just convolving an input and passing it the the corresponding output.

Mvh,
Bernt

-----Original Message-----
From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Robbins

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[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

I will do that, but it will only work for full range correction and no bass management. If you get 15 different streams in Audacity you will get 15 different mono files and where does that leave you?

 

What is your setup like? It can’t be a simple pair of full range stereo speakers when you get 15 channels in the wav file?

 

Mvh,

Bernt

 

From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry

Sent: onsdag 27. mai 2020 15:47
To: Audiolense User Forum

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[Jeffrey Robbins]

Hi Bernt. My USB DAC setup is a MCH 5.2 system, which is likely why there are 15 wav files. Ideally, I’d use the MCH DAC stack for my intended purpose as 2.2. Of course, your point is that you could separate out left and right mains, full range, with no bass management. Were I able to run HQP through my 2-channel streamer DAC, this would work, as I am using the crossover in the prepro for that setup. But, HQP only works with USB DACs, so that isn’t the answer, as the MCH DAC output is running into the analog MCH inputs of my prepro which do not allow application of any crossovers.

If I remeasured the USB MCH DAC with AL as 2.2, would I be able to identify a left main, a right main and an LFE channel with all bass routed there? Or would I still have 5 or 6 (ie, more than three) separate mono wav files to contend with? Thanks. JCR

[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

Hi Jeffrey,

Does HQP have routing and mixing capabilities?



Mvh,
Bernt

-----Original Message-----
From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Robbins
Sent: torsdag 28. mai 2020 01:08
To: Audiolense User Forum

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[Johnny Jensen / JJAZ]

I thought mono files was the standard for convolving?
In my 10 channel JRiver setup, all my files for the FIR filters are mono wav files.

[Christian Kuntze]

Hi Bernt

i am using HQP as well.

It has routing capability's. I am using HQP in a stereo 4 way full active speaker setup. For this i am converting the AL multi-channel wav to 8 channel mono wav. But it's a bit of work, because in audacity you have to split the first 2 channels in 2 separate mono channels before exporting all files.

It would really help if we could export mono waf's directly. AND: please with any appendix in the name to make clear which channel is left, right and perfect would be crossover frequency ;)

@Jeffrey: there is no need to use a usb dac... on windows for e.g. you can use ANY dac with ASIO support! Even Multi-Channel Dante is possible.

I am using a Prism Sound Orpheus connected by Firewire ;)

Greetings

Christian

Am Donnerstag, 28. Mai 2020 08:01:57 UTC+2 schrieb BerntR:

Hi Jeffrey,

Does HQP have routing and mixing capabilities?



Mvh,
Bernt


-----Original Message-----
From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Robbins
Sent: torsdag 28. mai 2020 01:08
To: Audiolense User Forum
Subject: RE: [audiolense] Mono wav files for HQP

Hi Bernt. My USB DAC setup is a MCH 5.2 system, which is likely why there are 15 wav files. Ideally, I’d use the MCH DAC stack for my intended purpose as 2.2. Of course, your point is that you could separate out left and right mains, full range, with no bass management. Were I able to run HQP through my 2-channel streamer DAC, this would work, as I am using the crossover in the prepro for that setup.  But, HQP only works with USB DACs, so that isn’t the answer, as the MCH DAC output is running into the analog MCH inputs of my prepro which do not allow application of any crossovers.

If I remeasured the USB MCH DAC with AL as 2.2, would I be able to identify a left main, a right main and an LFE channel with all bass routed there?  Or would I still have 5 or 6 (ie, more than three) separate mono wav files to contend with?  Thanks. JCR

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[Christian Kuntze]

Yes, in most cases this is correct!

Beside of HQP i am using Reaper with convolution vst plugins. Mono files are always working and sometime stereo. but i never had a real multi ways vst plugin ;)

Greetings

Christian

[Barry]

Hi Bernt, at the moment I do have a simple pair of full range stereo speakers but I want to do bass management and do 4 way crossover like Christian K mentions above.

Like Christian K requests above, would be really great if Audiolense can output 8 channels separate mono files

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 12:41:55 AM UTC+8, BerntR wrote:

I will do that, but it will only work for full range correction and no bass management. If you get 15 different streams in Audacity you will get 15 different mono files and where does that leave you?

 

What is your setup like? It can’t be a simple pair of full range stereo speakers when you get 15 channels in the wav file?

 

Mvh,

Bernt

 

From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Sent: onsdag 27. mai 2020 15:47
To: Audiolense User Forum
Subject: Re: [audiolense] Mono wav files for HQP

 

Would be really great if Audiolense can output mono files directly for HQP

 

On Wednesday, May 27, 2020 at 9:33:27 PM UTC+8, Jeffrey Robbins wrote:

Hi all. Well, the problem is that when opening the wav files in Audacity, there are 15 different streams. I suppose this is because the cfg is for a MCH DAC. Of course, I have no idea how to properly reconstruct a L and R mono wav file set front this. Bernt, have you worked with HQP in the past and is there a way to do it?  Thanks. JCR  

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[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

No, it's not the standard. And jriver can use multichannel wav - as well as configuration files with all the required routing and mixing information.

Mvh,
Bernt


-----Original Message-----
From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Johnny Jensen / JJAZ
Sent: torsdag 28. mai 2020 08:09
To: Audiolense User Forum
Subject: RE: [audiolense] Mono wav files for HQP

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[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

I will enable splitting the multichannel wav files, but nothing else. I’ve given the promise, but I am starting to regret already. Because I see a lot of questions and request and support issues coming out of this.

 

The only way to provide a proper integration is to have a file or a file bundle that contains all the required information about routing, mixing, convolving and routing out again. That file or bundle has to be read by the player/convolver.

 

You guys should talk the HQP folks into making a proper interface with proper functionality for their convolver. Jriver has done it and Roon has done it. It is really not that hard to do.

 

 

Mvh,

Bernt

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[Christian Kuntze]

Hi Bernt

Thx for the upcoming spitting feature! This will help a lot. And it is not only an HQP issue! As i sad: i have tried some Reverb- Plugins and i don't now any which is really multi way capable. Most of them mono or stereo!

For me the mono export is enough. We just need to know wich wav ist which channel? Will it follow the numbers in the crossover configuration?

Big thx and greetings

Christian

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[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

Hi Christian,

 

It is not as simple as which wav is which channel. Internally in Audiolense there is a term called “correction path”. I invented that term myself in an attempt to keep control of everything. A correction path can take input from many channels, mix them and attenuate them, then correct this total with one correction filter and send it to one output channel. In the case of subwoofers and bass management you can have several correction paths going to the same output channel. All this information can be read from the configuration file. An explanation of how to read those files can be found here: http://convolver.sourceforge.net/config.html

 

The output channels in the config files correspond with the real ouputs you were using when you measured the speakers. It is pretty straight forward for stereo and fullrange correction, but can be very complicated with several subs, multichannel, digital xo and when there’s not a perfect correspondence between the input format and the speaker setup.

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[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

What’s the deal with HQP, btw?

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[Bob Stern]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 at 9:13:13 AM UTC-7, Mitch wrote:

Jeffrey, you can download an audio editor like Audacity and split the stereo .wav correction filter into two mono filters for HQP

The command line program SoX also can do that using its "remix" function.  A script to run the SoX command would facilitate doing this repeatedly while you are tweaking your Audiolense filters.

(I'm not an Audiolense user, but I saw a reference to this topic on the HQPlayer thread on the AudiophileStyle forum.) 

[Bob Stern]

On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 12:53:31 AM UTC-7, BerntR wrote:

What’s the deal with HQP, btw?

The primary purpose of HQP is to replace the dithering, upsampling, filtering and delta-sigma modulator functions in a DAC with more accurate implementations made possible by implementing them in a computer rather than with the limited processing power inside a DAC chip.

[Barry]

It is not just a convolver. It does PC based upsampling to high PCM and DSD rates. Some of us a very interested in this (even if others are not).

And it has it's own networked audio protocol, for sending audio across to the house to different rooms. Some of us listen in different rooms, not just one listening room.

And it plays direct to Merging Ravenna DACs now... all over network connection.

[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

OK, thanks

 

It is not just a convolver. It does PC based upsampling to high PCM and DSD rates. Some of us a very interested in this (even if others are not).

 

-  and I respect that. High sample rate support and mono spit is coming in june.

 

Try to talk them into improving the convolver. I can give them guidelines if they need.

 

Mvh,

Bernt

 

From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Sent: torsdag 28. mai 2020 10:32
To: Audiolense User Forum
Subject: Re: [audiolense] Mono wav files for HQP

 

It is not just a convolver. It does PC based upsampling to high PCM and DSD rates. Some of us a very interested in this (even if others are not).

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[Jeffrey Robbins]

Barry, I have a Bel Canto streamer that would be my first choice to play through HQP but I thought that was impossible because it is ethernet only. With no WDM or ASIO drivers, how would I do this? JCR

[Barry]

Hi JR

I don't quite follow what you are trying to do?

The Bel Canto is already a Roon and UPnP endpoint/renderer. Doesn't feature HQP NAA unfortunately.

What is it that you're trying to do? I can try to help if I can better understand.

[Jeffrey Robbins]

I am trying to use HQP’s analog input feature to stream digitized vinyl at 24/192 and apply AL convolution filters to the stream.

Currently, I stream vinyl at 16/192 as follows:

VPI turntable -> Bob’s Devices step up transformer -> Sutherland PhD phono preamp -> Benchmark ADC1 converter -> Lynx AES16e soundcard -> Icecast -> BUTT source client -> Roon convolution engine (playing out as a private internet radio station) -> Bel Canto streamer

I would prefer that the vinyl stream at 24 bit, and HQP is the only product I’ve located to do this.

We know that my streamer won’t work because it’s not an HQP NAA. In my main system, I have a second DAC I use for MCH, which is a miniDSP UDIO-8 USB interface to which I have attached four Musical Fidelity V90 DACs they get clocked together by the miniDSP device. I am running it via WASAPI.

I thought I could use a stereo 2.2 configuration with the V90 DAC stack as the output for HQP. I’ve been completely stymied in doing so. I always get t a no output format error in HQP when setting the ASIO Lynx as the input source and USBStreamer (the miniDSP moniker) in WASAPI for output. Jussi from Signalyst has been helping out over at the Roon forum, but we’ve been unable to find a working combination to play out the 24/192 stream. And that’s before trying to figure out how to convert my MCH AL filters for the USBStreamer to mono wavs that HQP can utilize. JCR

[Bruno]

Hi Jeffrey

I'm trying to do the exact same thing but Mac OS Based:

VPI turntable -> Parasound Halo JC 3+ Phono Preamplifier -> PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter (only using  ADC USB) -> iMac computer USB -> ??? Icecast -> BUTT source client - Or HQP > Roon convolution engine (playing out as a private internet radio station) -> iMac to exaSound e38 MK II Dac. ---> 2.2 system (3-way speakers with 2 subs)

Im just standing but stumped

[Barry]

Hi JR

Since you have USBStreamer, can you try that as Input?

Maybe try to simplify the chain (especially the output side of HQP) just to get things working.

Just have USBStreamer as HQP input and a basic USB DAC as Output , just to start?

Use the TOSlink output of your Benchmark ADC1 -> TOSlink input of USBStreamer -> HQP Input -> USB DAC

I use USBStreamer with HQP Input feature.

[Barry]

HQPlayer Embedded (Linux) would allow you to by-pass TOSlink and have your ADC1 connect by USB direct to the HQP Server.

HQP on Windows doesn't support this.

But for now, try to get USBStreamer working, to digitise your vinyl. Should work.

[Jeffrey Robbins]

I think you must have a device called USBStreamer.  On my end, that is the software moniker for the miniDSP udio-8 interface. So, it’s not an input device.  Maybe you need to show me the signal path you would recommend I test.

Just so you can see the choices I have in HQP, see the attached photos. Thanks. JCR

[Barry]

Apologies, yes that confused the heck out of me.

The miniDSP USBStreamer is actually a HQPlayer supported input device:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/usb-audio-interface/usbstreamer-box

I use it to feed ANY TOSlink source into HQPlayer. So your ADC1 TOSlink output would work but I now realise you don't have the same USBStreamer device I have.

Your chain is complicated. I'll need to have a look and think what's happening and how you could maybe simplify your chain significantly, just to get the basic input feature working (with sound out).