There is a God like it or not

[stilllookatmeppl@aol.com]

If the universe was created by a big bang...wouldn't the big bang be
considered our God? No matter how the universe was created...that
moment that started it all...is our God.

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 9, 6:25 am, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

If our teeth were created by cell differentiation, wouldn't the
undifferentiated cell preceding our teeth be considered our Tooth
Fairy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_differentiation

[Rupert]

On Aug 9, 11:25 am, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> If the universe was created by a big bang...wouldn't the big bang be
> considered our God?

No.

[stilllookatmeppl@aol.com]

explain.

[stilllookatmeppl@aol.com]

No but it would be the direct origin of our teeth.

On Aug 8, 9:11 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 9, 8:22 am, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> No but it would be the direct origin of our teeth.

Then, the answer to your question would be:
No, but it would be the direct origin of our universe.

> On Aug 8, 9:11 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"<ranjit_math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 9, 6:25 am, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"
> > <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > If the universe was created by a big bang...wouldn't the big bang be
> > > considered our God?

[stilllookatmeppl@aol.com]

and the base origin of Humans and our teeth :-)...which would qualify
it as God.

On Aug 8, 9:34 pm, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[Rupert]

On Aug 9, 1:21 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"
<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> explain.
>

Can you be more specific about what you are having trouble
understanding?

[stilllookatmeppl@aol.com]

Why wouldn't the big bang be our God? If it's where we ultimately
originated?

[Rupert]

On Aug 9, 1:55 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> Why wouldn't the big bang be our God? If it's where we ultimately
> originated?
>

Because the idea of God involves more attributes than just being the
ultimate origin of our universe.

[stilllookatmeppl@aol.com]

What are those attributes exactly Mr. Rubert?

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 9, 8:47 am, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> and the base origin of Humans and our teeth :-)...which would qualify
> it as God.

... an undifferentiated cell is God?

[360]

It's able to help form an human tooth...Can you do that sir?

On Aug 9, 12:03 am, "ranjit_math...@yahoo.com"

[Rupert]

On Aug 9, 2:05 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> What are those attributes exactly Mr. Rubert?

Swinburne defines God to be an omnipresent spirit who is necessarily
omnipotent, omniscient, perfectly free, and eternal.

Other definitions might be possible, but most religious people would
agree that God is capable of forming intentions and performing
actions, as a human person is.

It's hard to pin down precisely what counts as a reasonable conception
of God, but the big bang in the sense that physicists conceive it
doesn't fit the bill.

[Trance Gemini]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 2:09 AM, 360 <stillloo...@aol.com> wrote:

It's able to help form an human tooth...Can you do that sir?

Why call it God?

Why not call it what is? Cell Differentiation.

-- 

"Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory." — Scott D. Weitzenhoffer

[Trance Gemini]

Why call it God?

Why not just call it what it was? The Big Bang.

Why do some have a driving need to call things God?

[Trance Gemini]

This is true with the conception of the Abrahamic and other gods but not true with the conception of the Deist God.

However, the problem with the conception of the Deist God is that it becomes rather an irrelevant god.

And most people who want to believe in gods appear to need more than that.

[360]

Well I'm more of an "The Grand Architect of the Universe" kind of
believer.

On Aug 9, 4:16 am, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Drafterman]

On Aug 8, 9:25 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

Some people call the universe a god. They're called pantheists. My
thought is, if the universe is god, and we already have a word for the
universe (universe), then why do we need to add the label god?

We don't.

I don't see why we would call the Big Bang god, even if it did create
the universe, which we don't know.

[360]

Maybe because it would be considered our creator..the reason for our
thoughts, our senses, and life in general. I think that would be our
god. Seems accurate.

[Drafterman]

On Aug 9, 8:23 am, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> Maybe because it would be considered our creator..the reason for our
> thoughts, our senses, and life in general. I think that would be our
> god. Seems accurate.

So that's all a god is, a creator? Shit, I create things all the time.
Does that make me a god?

>
> On Aug 9, 6:19 am, Drafterman <drafter...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 9:25 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"
>
> > <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > If the universe was created by a big bang...wouldn't the big bang be
> > > considered our God? No matter how the universe was created...that
> > > moment that started it all...is our God.
>
> > Some people call the universe a god. They're called pantheists. My
> > thought is, if the universe is god, and we already have a word for the
> > universe (universe), then why do we need to add the label god?
>
> > We don't.
>
> > I don't see why we would call the Big Bang god, even if it did create

> > the universe, which we don't know.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Rupert]

On Aug 9, 8:16 pm, Trance Gemini <trancegemi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Rupert <rupertmccal...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 9, 1:55 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"
> > <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > Why wouldn't the big bang be our God? If it's where we ultimately
> > > originated?
>
> > Because the idea of God involves more attributes than just being the
> > ultimate origin of our universe.
>
> This is true with the conception of the Abrahamic and other gods but not
> true with the conception of the Deist God.
>
> However, the problem with the conception of the Deist God is that it becomes
> rather an irrelevant god.
>
> And most people who want to believe in gods appear to need more than that.
>

I suppose I have never heard a deist explain what he understands by a
"god", but I have the feeling that it connotes something which is
definitely not the big bang.

[Answer_42]

On Aug 9, 6:25 am, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:

> Well I'm more of an "The Grand Architect of the Universe" kind of
> believer.

So, in other words, you believe in Intelligent Design... why?

[thea]

Thank you Trance, for this from Weitzenhoffer.  Loved it.
 I feel the same way when I tell creationists that the dinosaurs were
not in the Garden of Eden and get told that they were.
thea
 

--
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[Neil Kelsey]

> > "Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to
> > play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and
> > flies back to its flock to claim victory." — Scott D. Weitzenhoffer
>
> > Thank you Trance, for this from Weitzenhoffer.  Loved it.
>
>  I feel the same way when I tell creationists that the dinosaurs were
> not in the Garden of Eden and get told that they were.
> thea

I get the same feeling when I tell you that the "Gap Theory" cannot be
true because it contradicts various scientific discoveries and you
keep telling me it is true. You're no more rational than the
creationists.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 8, 6:25 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> If the universe was created by a big bang...wouldn't the big bang be
> considered our God? No matter how the universe was created...that
> moment that started it all...is our God.

Why should I worship a mindless explosion?

[thea]

Too bad you are too brainwashed to understand the difference.
The Gap Theory by chance is the only thing that leaves you a human
being looking for your ancestors.
My ancestors were not Apes.  Were yours?
 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 9, 11:04 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > "Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying
> > to
> > > > play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the
> > board, and
> > > > flies back to its flock to claim victory." — Scott D. Weitzenhoffer
>
> > > > Thank you Trance, for this from Weitzenhoffer.  Loved it.
>
> > >  I feel the same way when I tell creationists that the dinosaurs were
> > > not in the Garden of Eden and get told that they were.
> > > thea
>
> > I get the same feeling when I tell you that the "Gap Theory" cannot be
> > true because it contradicts various scientific discoveries and you
> > keep telling me it is true. You're no more rational than the
> > creationists.
>
> Too bad you are too brainwashed to understand the difference.

Nope, I figured out that you are no more rational than creationists
all by myself.

> The Gap Theory by chance is the only thing that leaves you a human
> being looking for your ancestors.

Whatever that means.

> My ancestors were not Apes.

Of corse they were. And by the way, *you* are a member of the ape
family (so am I).

> Were yours?

Of course. Learn some biology.

[LL]

On Aug 8, 6:25 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"
<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> If the universe was created by a big bang...wouldn't the big bang be
> considered our God? No matter how the universe was created...that
> moment that started it all...is our God.

LL: You could call anything your god. You could call your father your
god. It doesn't show that "a god" exists or that what you point to is
a god. You haven't even defined what you mean by "your god." If the
big bang can be a god, anything can be described that way--even an
gnat. You are veering very close to pantheism. Is that your stance?

********

[LL]

On Aug 8, 8:55 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> Why wouldn't the big bang be our God? If it's where we ultimately
> originated?

LL:If your definition of god is whatever is antecedent to anything
else, then I guess you could make that point, as weak as it would be.
But I suspect you have a much different concept of god than a mere
antecedent.

Why not use the word "antecedent" as long as that's what you mean. Why
use another word, especially, if you don't define that other word as
anything other than the original concept?

********************

[LL]

On Aug 8, 9:05 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

<stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> What are those attributes exactly Mr. Rubert?

LL: Whatever attributes you or anyone puts on a god, Mr. shillookatme.
There are plenty of attributes to choose from. You have not mentioned
what you think your god's attributes are, so none of us has any idea
of which god you are alluding to. If you think god is only an
antecedent and absolutely nothing more, say so. Don't hide behind your
non-existent definition.

*********************

[LL]

On Aug 9, 3:25 am, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> Well I'm more of an "The Grand Architect of the Universe" kind of
> believer.

LL: Then you accept the big bang and evolution. Why add an unprovable,
unscientific concept onto it?

********

[LL]

On Aug 9, 5:23 am, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> Maybe because it would be considered our creator..the reason for our
> thoughts, our senses, and life in general. I think that would be our
> god. Seems accurate.

LL: And completely unnecessary, besides being a supernatural concept
that has no place in a rational discussion of the origins of the
universe.


********

[LL]

LL: Very well put, Rupert! You have a talent for saying a lot in a few
words.

*******

[Trance Gemini]

No doubt.

[thea]

Biology will one day be found to be wrong.  What a shame that so many have to
learn about it in hell.  Heaven is for the ones who believe that God did something
to redeem mankind because HE originally made mankind like Himself.
see ya
thea
 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 9, 4:00 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's already been found to be right.

> What a shame that so many have
> to
> learn about it in hell.

Here you go again, issuing threats of torture whenever anyone shows
that you're wrong about something.

>  Heaven is for the ones who believe that God did
> something
> to redeem mankind because HE originally made mankind like Himself.

Heaven is make-believe for the ones who are too frightened to accept
reality.

> see ya
> thea
>
>
>
>
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[360]

You don't have to worship a mindless explosion. No one said you had to
worship.

[360]

I accept that, that is an option. My definition of God isn't an
Abrahamic one. It's simply whatever created us. It doesn't have to be
worshiped or provide any rules for you to follow. You are god's now
and you have the mind to create.

[360]

How is that supernatural? If the this scientific big bang didn't occur
would you exist? So basically it's just a worthless bullshit phenomena
that created the stars and life? Show appreciation.

[360]

Oh yeah that mindless explosion is the cause of you having a mind. How
ironic. How about you create an universe? Can a rational scientist
create a universe? That mindless explosion > you .

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 9, 9:19 pm, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> You don't have to worship a mindless explosion. No one said you had to
> worship.

Then why call it God?

> On Aug 9, 10:59 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 8, 6:25 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"
>
> > <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > If the universe was created by a big bang...wouldn't the big bang be
> > > considered our God? No matter how the universe was created...that
> > > moment that started it all...is our God.
>

> > Why should I worship a mindless explosion?- Hide quoted text -

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 9, 9:39 pm, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:

> Oh yeah that mindless explosion is the cause of you having a mind. How
> ironic. How about you create an universe?

Do you think the mindless explosion intended to create a universe?

> Can a rational scientist create a universe?

No. So what?

> That mindless explosion > you .

How is that ironic?

> On Aug 9, 10:19 pm, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > You don't have to worship a mindless explosion. No one said you had to
> > worship.
>
> > On Aug 9, 10:59 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 8, 6:25 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"
>
> > > <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > If the universe was created by a big bang...wouldn't the big bang be
> > > > considered our God? No matter how the universe was created...that
> > > > moment that started it all...is our God.
>

[thea]

Heaven is only for mankind who has acknowledged the God of Abraham,
Isaac and Israel, and learned that God lives in the Praises of His People.
People who have learned to Praise God all the time, have healing, health,
and are in the perfect will of God for their lives.
Yes, they are few and far between, because in this present church
age of the Laodicea church of Revelation 3, we find that most of
humankind is neither hot nor cold, so are displeasing to God, and
will be spewed out of His mouth.
It is not for me to say who gets to heaven and who doesn't, but
believe me when I say I know the ones who are definitely following
Jesus now, because God's Spirit witnesses to the Spirit that is
in me, that they also are children of the Most High God.This is the *know-so*
salvation.
thea


 

[Answer_42]

On Aug 10, 12:26 am, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:

> I accept that, that is an option. My definition of God isn't an
> Abrahamic one. It's simply whatever created us. It doesn't have to be
> worshiped or provide any rules for you to follow. You are god's now
> and you have the mind to create.

And how do yo know that "something" created us?

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 10, 12:30 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

Those would be the people who are too frightened to accept reality,
like I said.

> People who have learned to Praise God all the time, have healing, health,
> and are in the perfect will of God for their lives.

People who have "learned to Praise God all the time" have no more
ability to heal than I do, are no more healthy than any other group
(unless you're comparing them to AIDS victims), and only imagine that
they are in the perfect will of God for their lives. Make-believe,
like I said.

> Yes, they are few and far between, because in this present church
> age of the Laodicea church of Revelation 3, we find that most of
> humankind is neither hot nor cold, so are displeasing to God, and
> will be spewed out of His mouth.

No, they're few and far between because most people aren't that
deluded.

> It is not for me to say who gets to heaven and who doesn't,

Except you say it anyway.

> but believe me when I say I know the ones who are definitely following
> Jesus now,

I don't believe pretty much anything you say. You "guaranteed" 10
months ago that Jesus/God would "make themselves known to me," but
they haven't; you keep blathering on about something you call the "Gap
Theory" which contradicts scientific fact, you keep blathering on
about science even though you seem to have it confused with magic, and
you couldn't give a straight answer if I was holding Jesus for ransom.
I think your mind is like a fantasy cartoon world, starring you and
Jesus and nebulous bad guys conspiring against you. I think you are
imagining things if you think you "know the ones who are definitely
following Jesus now." I think I know the ones who are "definitely
following Jesus now" better than you can (those would be the ones who
call themselves "Christian"), and I'm an atheist.

> because God's Spirit witnesses to the Spirit that is
> in me, that they also are children of the Most High God.This is the
> *know-so*
> salvation.

This is "make-believe" delusion.

* snip *

[Marc James Hugh Robson]

Suppose for a moment, and for the sake of argument, that we allow the
existence of a purely creator deity. Spinoza's creator; a
philosophical entity which begins the clock ticking - this god is one
which implements and sustains the laws of physics as immutable and
then things merely operate in accordance with those laws. This god is
either uncaring, emotionless and without empathy or as fickle as
mother nature herself. But either way I see no reason to worry about
such a god, as its actual existence or non-existence would amount to
the same thing; both in terms of how we ought to behave as well as how
best to obtain knowledge of the universe. Herein we observe the
methods of science, and that with respect to ethics of practice and
our being-in-the-world-with-others we are on our own and cursed to
muddle through it by ourselves. Such a being whilst - in someways -
the most likely of currently thought up incarnations of deity, is also
the least important - it is the secular ideal of a god several steps
on from the removal from church from state, indeed it is a near
removal of god from universe... a god who has only done one thing
'created', but with only the laws of nature as guidance, i.e.
completely without an ethics? Herein we, as humans, would be in the
exact same position as atheists are whether or not this god existed -
i.e. with only the comfort of each other against a cold universe and
fickle nature. With such a deity being right about its existence
becomes merely technical, a matter of definition. It is a tiny step
from such an initiator to simply saying... "well what the hell it
makes no difference either way so I might as well be
atheist!"

[thea]

Your mind twists everything up just like the Bible says -- your mind
has been darkened by the darkness of Satan.

> People who have learned to Praise God all the time, have healing, health,
> and are in the perfect will of God for their lives.

People who have "learned to Praise God all the time" have no more
ability to heal than I do, are no more healthy than any other group
(unless you're comparing them to AIDS victims), and only imagine that
they are in the perfect will of God for their lives. Make-believe,
like I said.

I just read a story about a missionary in South America who went to the
hospital to see someone.  They were dying (supposedly) and had all
kinds of tubes hooked up to them.  They also had all of their family
gathered around for the last.
The missionaries walked in and up to the man in the bed and said,
we are going to pray for you, and you will recover and get well.
All you have to do is keep praising and Thanking Jesus for your healing.
The man in the bed took and ran with it.
In two weeks or so out came the tubes -- He was Thanking Jesus constantly
for his healing.
In three months he was entirely well, and was back to work.
It works -- if you work it.

And, then there was the fellow I read about who had a place on his back
that was increasing in size.  He knew God healed people, because God
had healed his wife.  So he got some healing tapes, and every night
when he came home from work, after dinner, he would go to his office
and all night those healing tapes are all he heard.  About six months
later the place on his back was so big, and he looked like death warmed
over, that everyone wanted to know what was wrong with him.  He
told them *I am healed.*  And after a year -- he was healed, totally
healed.

If you want healing you have to ask -- then you have to take the answer
by Thanking Jesus for your healing.


 

> Yes, they are few and far between, because in this present church
> age of the Laodicea church of Revelation 3, we find that most of
> humankind is neither hot nor cold, so are displeasing to God, and
> will be spewed out of His mouth.

No, they're few and far between because most people aren't that
deluded.

They are few and far between because in our society everything is a
right-now proposition. 
But, Jesus said, Ask and you shall receive.
And we do receive when we ask.
 

> It is not for me to say who gets to heaven and who doesn't,

Except you say it anyway.

I cannot tell which way you will go -- but one way or the other
you will proceed into eternity.  You either will be with God
the Father of Jesus for eternity, or you will spend your
eternity in *outer darkness* where there is weeping and
gnashing of teeth at a person's stupidity.

 

> but believe me when I say I know the ones who are definitely following
> Jesus now,

I don't believe pretty much anything you say. You "guaranteed" 10
months ago that Jesus/God would "make themselves known to me," but
they haven't; you keep blathering on about something you call the "Gap
Theory" which contradicts scientific fact, you keep blathering on
about science even though you seem to have it confused with magic, and
you couldn't give a straight answer if I was holding Jesus for ransom.
I think your mind is like a fantasy cartoon world, starring you and
Jesus and nebulous bad guys conspiring against you. I think you are
imagining things if you think you "know the ones who are definitely
following Jesus now." I think I know the ones who are "definitely
following Jesus now" better than you can (those would be the ones who
call themselves "Christian"), and I'm an atheist.

It is really fun to watch you fight it so hard.  You are so determined, and I
can see God's hand teaching you.
You are really a sight to see -- you have been blinded by this old world
and what mankind has to say in this old world.
But, God through His Marvelous Matchless Amazing Grace is reaching
out to you -- all you have to do is accept the platter of all good things.

 

> because God's Spirit witnesses to the Spirit that is
> in me, that they also are children of the Most High God.This is the
> *know-so*
> salvation.

This is "make-believe" delusion.

To know that your sins are forgiven and that you are on your way to heaven,
is the most marvelous experience which we can have in this life.
To know that the *down-payment* is so easy to acquire, and yet
Satan comes to blind the minds of men that they cannot see the
glorious Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
My my.


 

* snip *

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 10, 4:31 pm, Marc James Hugh Robson <mjhrob...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Suppose for a moment, and for the sake of argument, that we allow the
> existence of a purely creator deity. Spinoza's creator; a
> philosophical entity which begins the clock ticking - this god is one
> which implements and sustains the laws of physics as immutable and
> then things merely operate in accordance with those laws. This god is
> either uncaring, emotionless and without empathy or as fickle as
> mother nature herself. But either way I see no reason to worry about
> such a god, as its actual existence or non-existence would amount to
> the same thing; both in terms of how we ought to behave as well as how
> best to obtain knowledge of the universe. Herein we observe the
> methods of science, and that with respect to ethics of practice and
> our being-in-the-world-with-others we are on our own and cursed to
> muddle through it by ourselves.

If there is no God, deistic or otherwise, would you still regard
having to "muddle through it by ourselves" to be a "curse"?

> Such a being whilst - in someways -
> the most likely of currently thought up incarnations of deity,

In other ways it's equally unlikely/impossible.

> is also
> the least important - it is the secular ideal of a god several steps
> on from the removal from church from state, indeed it is a near
> removal of god from universe... a god who has only done one thing
> 'created', but with only the laws of nature as guidance, i.e.
> completely without an ethics? Herein we, as humans, would be in the
> exact same position as atheists are whether or not this god existed -
> i.e. with only the comfort of each other against a cold universe and
> fickle nature. With such a deity being right about its existence
> becomes merely technical, a matter of definition. It is a tiny step
> from such an initiator to simply saying... "well what the hell it
> makes no difference either way so I might as well be
> atheist!"

Still, if this deistic God existed then it wouldn't be right to be an
atheist. I'd like to know the truth. But since "the simplest
explanation is most likely the correct one" (in this case, the natural
world seems to work just fine without a deity, deistic or otherwise),
I'll try to struggle on as an atheist.

[thea]

--

Yep, you sound just like the other god of the Bible wants you to sound.
You can believe the lie of Satan (who is the God of this evil age) or
you can believe that Christianity is based on God doing something
for mankind.
I also understand how hard it is to believe that a God could exist.
But, after studying for 40 years in order to find the Truth, and then
find where the Power of God is, I can guarantee anyone that
God Exists.  That this God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel,
sent His Only Begotten Son, Jesus to pay the penalty for
Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden.
That we are given a *down-payment* (earnest money) which
is the Comforter that Jesus promised to send - the Holy Spirit
living in the life of a believer, who has learned that
God lives in the Praises of His People.
thea
 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 10, 4:51 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

You are too frightened to accept the reality that Satan is make-
believe, and you're willing to demonize me in the process. Your
selfishness is boundless.

> > > People who have learned to Praise God all the time, have healing, health,
> > > and are in the perfect will of God for their lives.
>
> > People who have "learned to Praise God all the time" have no more
> > ability to heal than I do, are no more healthy than any other group
> > (unless you're comparing them to AIDS victims), and only imagine that
> > they are in the perfect will of God for their lives. Make-believe,
> > like I said.
>
> I just read a story about a missionary in South America who went to the
> hospital to see someone. They were dying (supposedly) and had all
> kinds of tubes hooked up to them. They also had all of their family
> gathered around for the last.
> The missionaries walked in and up to the man in the bed and said,
> we are going to pray for you, and you will recover and get well.
> All you have to do is keep praising and Thanking Jesus for your healing.
> The man in the bed took and ran with it.
> In two weeks or so out came the tubes -- He was Thanking Jesus constantly
> for his healing.
> In three months he was entirely well, and was back to work.
> It works -- if you work it.

And of course you are ignoring the hundreds of thousands of Christians
who thank Jesus constantly for his healing but get sick and die each
year, because you are too frightened to accept reality.

> And, then there was the fellow I read about who had a place on his back
> that was increasing in size. He knew God healed people, because God
> had healed his wife. So he got some healing tapes, and every night
> when he came home from work, after dinner, he would go to his office
> and all night those healing tapes are all he heard. About six months
> later the place on his back was so big, and he looked like death warmed
> over, that everyone wanted to know what was wrong with him. He
> told them *I am healed.* And after a year -- he was healed, totally
> healed.
>
> If you want healing you have to ask -- then you have to take the answer
> by Thanking Jesus for your healing.

Chrsitians die at pretty much the same rate as non-Christians do. You
are living in a cartoon fantasy world because you are too frightened
to accept reality.

> > > Yes, they are few and far between, because in this present church
> > > age of the Laodicea church of Revelation 3, we find that most of
> > > humankind is neither hot nor cold, so are displeasing to God, and
> > > will be spewed out of His mouth.
>
> > No, they're few and far between because most people aren't that
> > deluded.
>
> They are few and far between because in our society everything is a
> right-now proposition.

No, they're few and far between because most people aren't that
deluded.

> But, Jesus said, Ask and you shall receive.
> And we do receive when we ask.

Christians receive no more or no less than non-Christians. You are
living in a cartoon fantasy world because you are too frightened to
accept reality.

> > > It is not for me to say who gets to heaven and who doesn't,
>
> > Except you say it anyway.
>
> I cannot tell which way you will go --

Except you tell me anyway.

> but one way or the other
> you will proceed into eternity. You either will be with God
> the Father of Jesus for eternity, or you will spend your
> eternity in *outer darkness* where there is weeping and
> gnashing of teeth at a person's stupidity.

You are frightened of reality (you are mortal) so you latch on to
stories that tell you that you are immortal, and as a bonus those
stories tell you that those awful people who told you about reality
are going to be punished for eternity.

> > > but believe me when I say I know the ones who are definitely following
> > > Jesus now,
>
> > I don't believe pretty much anything you say. You "guaranteed" 10
> > months ago that Jesus/God would "make themselves known to me," but
> > they haven't; you keep blathering on about something you call the "Gap
> > Theory" which contradicts scientific fact, you keep blathering on
> > about science even though you seem to have it confused with magic, and
> > you couldn't give a straight answer if I was holding Jesus for ransom.
> > I think your mind is like a fantasy cartoon world, starring you and
> > Jesus and nebulous bad guys conspiring against you. I think you are
> > imagining things if you think you "know the ones who are definitely
> > following Jesus now." I think I know the ones who are "definitely
> > following Jesus now" better than you can (those would be the ones who
> > call themselves "Christian"), and I'm an atheist.
>
> It is really fun to watch you fight it so hard. You are so determined, and
> I
> can see God's hand teaching you.

No you can't. I'm still an atheist.

> You are really a sight to see -- you have been blinded by this old world
> and what mankind has to say in this old world.

You are mankind and yet I haven't been blinded by what you have to
say, doesn't that count?

> But, God through His Marvelous Matchless Amazing Grace is reaching
> out to you -- all you have to do is accept the platter of all good things.

No he isn't. All I see is you lying about me to prop your beliefs up.
There's no God, Jesus, or Satan anywhere in sight. Your "guarantee"
that God/Jesus would make themselves known to me is a farce.

> > > because God's Spirit witnesses to the Spirit that is
> > > in me, that they also are children of the Most High God.This is the
> > > *know-so*
> > > salvation.
>
> > This is "make-believe" delusion.
>
> To know that your sins are forgiven and that you are on your way to heaven,
> is the most marvelous experience which we can have in this life.

God and Heaven are make-believe for the ones who are too frightened to
accept reality.

> To know that the *down-payment* is so easy to acquire, and yet
> Satan comes to blind the minds of men that they cannot see the
> glorious Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
> My my.

Satan and Hell are punishment fantasies about you getting even with
all those mean people who dared to disbelieve you.

[Timothy 1:4a]

Depends how you define God. If the big bang is God, then God is not
conscious. That's not most people's concept of God.

On Aug 8, 9:25 pm, "stilllookatme...@aol.com"

[Observer]

On Aug 9, 11:04 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > "Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying
> > to
> > > > play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the
> > board, and
> > > > flies back to its flock to claim victory." — Scott D. Weitzenhoffer
>
> > > > Thank you Trance, for this from Weitzenhoffer.  Loved it.
>
> > >  I feel the same way when I tell creationists that the dinosaurs were
> > > not in the Garden of Eden and get told that they were.
> > > thea
>
> > I get the same feeling when I tell you that the "Gap Theory" cannot be
> > true because it contradicts various scientific discoveries and you
> > keep telling me it is true. You're no more rational than the
> > creationists.
>
> Too bad you are too brainwashed to understand the difference.

> The Gap Theory by chance is the only thing that leaves you a human
> being looking for your ancestors.

> My ancestors were not Apes.  Were yours?


Not only were yiour ancestors apes you and are apes .

read you, dimwitted clod.

Quote
The biological superfamily Hominoidea is part of the order Primates.
It contains two families of living (extant) species:
Hylobatidae consists of four genera and sixteen species of gibbon,
including the lar gibbon and the siamang. They are commonly referred
to as lesser apes.
Hominidae consists of orangutans, gorillas, common chimpanzees,
bonobos and humans.[1][2] Either the first four[3][4][5] or all
five[6] are collectively called the great apes.



End quote


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apes










Psychonomist

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > --

[dali_70]

On Aug 10, 7:51 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I just read a story about a missionary in South America who went to the
> hospital to see someone.  They were dying (supposedly) and had all
> kinds of tubes hooked up to them.  They also had all of their family
> gathered around for the last.
> The missionaries walked in and up to the man in the bed and said,
> we are going to pray for you, and you will recover and get well.
> All you have to do is keep praising and Thanking Jesus for your healing.
> The man in the bed took and ran with it.
> In two weeks or so out came the tubes -- He was Thanking Jesus constantly
> for his healing.
> In three months he was entirely well, and was back to work.
> It works -- if you work it.

>> snipped the rest of the gibbering nonsense.

Oh wow! Another...." I read this story,so it must be true"! posts.
Okay...

For all you people out there who seem to think that by reading one
stupid thing sent to you in an email, on the web, or some ancient
gibbering text has to be true, please read this with the same
gullibility...

Yesterday, your god spoke to me. Converted me right there on the spot
he did. Yup, showed me some really cool miracle-ish stuff and told me
what to tell all of you.
He said that your wait is almost over... it's so darn close. All you
have to do is prove how dedicated you are one more time and then he'll
come take you away with him. He said you'd need a few things first.
Here's the list...
1. Three stones of different sizes.
2. One fish.
3. One bottle of wine (no cheap shit or Non alcoholic crap.)
4. Two pieces of string.
5. A stick, the length of your forearm and as thick as 2 fingers.
The Day before the next full moon you must fast. No food, only water.
The next morning you should wake up at sunrise and give away all
possessions except the ones on the list.
Now that you're in your birthday suit, you should drink half the
bottle of wine and wash with the remainder. Use the stick to carry the
fish (through it's gills) and tie the two pieces of string to your
naked body (anyplace is good), grab the three rocks and bring them
with you. You must go out into the world and try to convert anyone not
like you (ie. naked with a fish on a stick and two pieces of sting
tied to your body). Tell them the good news! Save their souls, yep do
what you were put here to do. If someone makes fun of you, toss a
stone at them and run away screaming "Amen!". If they simply don't
believe you, offer them your fish. If they take it, get another one.
If they refuse, threaten to smite them with it. Keep doing this until
he comes to get you. It shouldn't take long, maybe 15 minutes or so,
depending on where you live. Angles in white uniformish looking attire
and possibly driving what appears to be an ambulance will come and
take you away. Then you'll be safe and happy in an eternal state of
bliss!

[thea]

ha ha ha ha ha.
Too bad to be forgotten in the babble of your mind.
you come across as a big fool.
I tell you that there is a God in heaven who loves mankind (who HE made)
so much that HE was willing to redeem them - and you are scornful.
You tell me there is something wrong with me - and yes, you are right
I am different.
I have studied until I know with a knowing deep inside that Jesus Lives
in me.  That Jesus is the answer to every problem of life.  That Jesus
can save, keep and satisfy.  That Jesus changes people and circumstances
when we look to Him as the author and finisher of our Faith.
It is the most wonderful experience to know that your sins our forgiven.
The sin of unbelief is the sin that sends people to hell.
Not believing that God Exists. Not acknowledging the God of the Universe
as being alive and well and working on planet earth to redeem His Own.
Seeing your unbelief, and how deeply entrenched your beliefs are,
is like looking at muddy water and wondering how much sin you
have in your life that has to be cleaned up in order to make you
ready for heaven.  To know that Jesus takes all the muck
and cleans us up is wonderful.  To know that the *down-payment*
of our future inheritance can be had here and now is glorious.
To not have any fear of life or what is coming, because we know
our God is in complete control of every aspect of our existence.
You see, having a Christian father made all the difference in this
gals life.  Having a father who knew how to pray.
Everyday to listen to his prayer of asking God to lead, guide,
and direct our lives for the glory of Jesus.
Wonderful, marvelous, matchless Amazing Grace of our
Heavenly Father, God through Jesus Christ has redeemed
us all.  All we have to do is accept His Provisions for our lives.
 

> > > People who have learned to Praise God all the time, have healing, health,
> > > and are in the perfect will of God for their lives.
>
> > People who have "learned to Praise God all the time" have no more
> > ability to heal than I do, are no more healthy than any other group
> > (unless you're comparing them to AIDS victims), and only imagine that
> > they are in the perfect will of God for their lives. Make-believe,
> > like I said.
>
> I just read a story about a missionary in South America who went to the
> hospital to see someone.  They were dying (supposedly) and had all
> kinds of tubes hooked up to them.  They also had all of their family
> gathered around for the last.
> The missionaries walked in and up to the man in the bed and said,
> we are going to pray for you, and you will recover and get well.
> All you have to do is keep praising and Thanking Jesus for your healing.
> The man in the bed took and ran with it.
> In two weeks or so out came the tubes -- He was Thanking Jesus constantly
> for his healing.
> In three months he was entirely well, and was back to work.
> It works -- if you work it.

And of course you are ignoring the hundreds of thousands of Christians
who thank Jesus constantly for his healing but get sick and die each
year, because you are too frightened to accept reality.

It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgment.  Which
judgment are you going to attend?
Healing is available.
I have been telling how to be healed, but no one wants to believe that it
could be so easy.
Yesterday, I learned a neighbor who had gone into the hospital for
pneumonia has lung cancer that has already gone to her head.  And,
since she is in the hospital, they are starting radiation and chemo.
However, if it were me, I would check myself out of the hospital and
ask for a second opinion.  But, we are conditioned to believe that
doctors know it all, and when they come at you with the fear that
something will be worse without their *tender mercies* - everyone
bows down to the guy who wants your money.
How when you are sick and in the hospital, do you know for sure
someone has your best interest at heart. 
I do not trust someone who can get their hands on dollars of mine,
because money is the root of all evil, and since the world works
on money -- there is something about the connection that makes
me wonder.


 

> And, then there was the fellow I read about who had a place on his back
> that was increasing in size.  He knew God healed people, because God
> had healed his wife.  So he got some healing tapes, and every night
> when he came home from work, after dinner, he would go to his office
> and all night those healing tapes are all he heard.  About six months
> later the place on his back was so big, and he looked like death warmed
> over, that everyone wanted to know what was wrong with him.  He
> told them *I am healed.*  And after a year -- he was healed, totally
> healed.
>
> If you want healing you have to ask -- then you have to take the answer
> by Thanking Jesus for your healing.

Chrsitians die at pretty much the same rate as non-Christians do. You
are living in a cartoon fantasy world because you are too frightened
to accept reality.

I have no fear -- fear is of Satan.  If you feel fear and someone is telling you
this is what you are to do -- and fear is present - back up and get out
of there.  Fear is of Satan.
Perfect peace is what Jesus gives, and if you do not have peace about
a situation, change what you are doing.
There is no fear when the Holy Spirit is present. 
I had a test run that a doctor wanted me to have.  When I checked
into the hospital for the out patient procedure, I knew I was signing
a piece of paper which could kill me.  Little did I know that the test
itself would have dire consequences for me.
I came to on a table with a doctor pressing on my chest telling me
to breath.  Yep the test almost killed me.
So, now I really question what someone is wanting from me.  I
check out the meds and find out is there is something else I can
do.  I take a look around me and have been watching my family
and firends die.  I look to see what they were doing in the way of
*trying to stay well - by going to a doctor all the time.*
And, I have come to the conclusion, that I would like to die without
all the meds, all the hubbub, because I thoroughly believe that
the hairs on my head are number, and so are the days of my
life.
My life span is already known to God.  There is a point in life
for which I cannot go past.  So, since God knows when I am to
die, my ability to maintain my health depends on my believe that
God knows the way through the wilderness, and all I have to
do is follow and be in the middle of His Will for my life -
and let God lead, guide and direct, and all will be well.

> > > Yes, they are few and far between, because in this present church
> > > age of the Laodicea church of Revelation 3, we find that most of
> > > humankind is neither hot nor cold, so are displeasing to God, and
> > > will be spewed out of His mouth.
>
> > No, they're few and far between because most people aren't that
> > deluded.
>
> They are few and far between because in our society everything is a
> right-now proposition.

No, they're few and far between because most people aren't that
deluded.

You have bought the lie of Satan, hook, line and sinker to boot.  You
believe everything some authority is telling you, without ever questioning
where they learned the information they have.
If you don't question, question, question, you remain a *sheep* which just
follows the crowd.
The problem with following the crowd - if they are going off a cliff, you just
go off with them.
There was a pastor who told the story of a dream that he had had whereby
he watched people going to hell.  They were at a big drop off, and even
though they knew where they were, the people behind them just keep
pushing everyone over the cliff.  You couldn't save yourself at the
last minute.
And this is the way life really is.  If you *study to who yourself approved
unto God a workman that needeth not be ashamed, but rightly dividing
the Word of Truth *the Bible*, you will find that everyone you meet
either knows Jesus, or not, or wants to, or not, and you can watch
Jesus work things out in your life for His Glory, and not your own.
I have been bought with the purchased price of the Blood of Jesus
on Calvary.  I can do no less that Praise and Thank Jesus for the
rest of the days of my life for His Power and His Presence,
and His Majesty.

 

> But, Jesus said, Ask and you shall receive.
> And we do receive when we ask.

Christians receive no more or no less than non-Christians. You are
living in a cartoon fantasy world because you are too frightened to
accept reality.

For an outsider looking in, your perception of what a Christian gets
is limited to your reality.
And beings you are not a Christian, there is no way for you to understand
or see the miracles that are played out in a Christians life.
It is only when you become a Christian that you discover that the
miracles are not only real, but they set you singing Praises to the
God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

> > > It is not for me to say who gets to heaven and who doesn't,
>
> > Except you say it anyway.
>
> I cannot tell which way you will go --

Except you tell me anyway.

I can tell you only one thing.  There are two ways that you can go.
One is to heaven, and the other way is to hell.
You make your choices in this life.
It is like the tomb stone that says:
*It won't be long until you come the way I have gone.*
And someone in chalk below this said:
*not until I know which way you went.*
 

> but one way or the other
> you will proceed into eternity.  You either will be with God
> the Father of Jesus for eternity, or you will spend your
> eternity in *outer darkness* where there is weeping and
> gnashing of teeth at a person's stupidity.

You are frightened of reality (you are mortal) so you latch on to
stories that tell you that you are immortal, and as a bonus those
stories tell you that those awful people who told you about reality
are going to be punished for eternity.

I have no fear.  I can feel fear rise up in the people around me, and
know the ones who have a Savior Jesus Christ and those who don't.
We live for Jesus now, and know that HE IS coming again to take
us home to live with Him in Glory.
Where the presence of God IS, there is no fear.



 

> > > but believe me when I say I know the ones who are definitely following
> > > Jesus now,
>
> > I don't believe pretty much anything you say. You "guaranteed" 10
> > months ago that Jesus/God would "make themselves known to me," but
> > they haven't; you keep blathering on about something you call the "Gap
> > Theory" which contradicts scientific fact, you keep blathering on
> > about science even though you seem to have it confused with magic, and
> > you couldn't give a straight answer if I was holding Jesus for ransom.
> > I think your mind is like a fantasy cartoon world, starring you and
> > Jesus and nebulous bad guys conspiring against you. I think you are
> > imagining things if you think you "know the ones who are definitely
> > following Jesus now." I think I know the ones who are "definitely
> > following Jesus now" better than you can (those would be the ones who
> > call themselves "Christian"), and I'm an atheist.
>
> It is really fun to watch you fight it so hard.  You are so determined, and
> I
> can see God's hand teaching you.

No you can't. I'm still an atheist.

I realize that you are still an atheist.  You are hanging on to your being an
atheist like a dying man hanging on to the bed rails as the smell of
smoke from hell starts winding around you.
I have been in rooms with dying patients, and heard the moans and
knew that they didn't understand and know who Jesus was.
My grandfather often talked in one of his sermons of being at the
bedside of an old reprobate sinner, and how he could smell
hell fire.

I know with a knowing that no man can take away, that I am on my
way to heaven.  That Jesus now only Exists, but that HE loved mankind
so much HE was willing to pay the redemption price.

 

> You are really a sight to see -- you have been blinded by this old world
> and what mankind has to say in this old world.

You are mankind and yet I haven't been blinded by what you have to
say, doesn't that count?

Nope, the only thing that counts in this life, is:  *Will you accept the
fact that God raised His Son, Jesus, from the dead* in order to
redeem you from Adams Sin in the Garden of Eden.
 

> But, God through His Marvelous Matchless Amazing Grace is reaching
> out to you -- all you have to do is accept the platter of all good things.

No he isn't. All I see is you lying about me to prop your beliefs up.
There's no God, Jesus, or Satan anywhere in sight. Your "guarantee"
that God/Jesus would make themselves known to me is a farce.

You are digging your own grave into unbelief.  I am not doing it for you.
Every man will be held responsible for what they did to Jesus.
Believing that Jesus Exists, and asking Jesus into your heart
and life is the most important item on everyone's agenda in this
life.
That Satan will do all he can to get you to remain an Atheist, is also
on Satan's agenda.
Understanding that Satan's time is running short, and he thinks if he
can get the most of mankind to go his way, that God will not destroy
him as is promised, makes it all the more imperative that we
thoroughly understand the enemy of our souls is Satan.

Philosophy 101 taught me that we know nothing - that all of life
is the shadow that Shakespeare said.
We walk on the stage on life, take our bow, and depart -
all that really matters is *which way we go from here.*
If we accept and believe that this is all there is, then we have to
be the most foolish of the foolish.
Living in eternity now, and forever.
 

> > > because God's Spirit witnesses to the Spirit that is
> > > in me, that they also are children of the Most High God.This is the
> > > *know-so*
> > > salvation.
>
> > This is "make-believe" delusion.
>
> To know that your sins are forgiven and that you are on your way to heaven,
> is the most marvelous experience which we can have in this life.

God and Heaven are make-believe for the ones who are too frightened to
accept reality.

You think you have accepted reality.
Jesus said, *There is a way that seemeth right to mankind, but after
that the judgment.*
To know that the judgment is the place where I will receive my rewards
for accepting Jesus as my Savior - the Bema Seat.

 

> To know that the *down-payment* is so easy to acquire, and yet
> Satan comes to blind the minds of men that they cannot see the
> glorious Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
> My my.

Satan and Hell are punishment fantasies about you getting even with
all those mean people who dared to disbelieve you.

It is really too bad that when you are dying they get you so doped up that
you cannot talk to someone.
My grandfather told the stories of being a the bedside of people dying.
Some were praising Jesus because they could hear the angels singing
in heaven.  And, others there was the smell of hells fires, because they
were not Christians.
Some screamed because they knew not God.
Others were rejoicing as Jesus came to take their hand and lead them
across the great divide between here and heaven.
It is a joy and privilege to serve a master who takes the burden of
life and makes it light. 



 

[thea]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Observer <mayo...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 9, 11:04 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > "Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying
> > to
> > > > play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the
> > board, and
> > > > flies back to its flock to claim victory." — Scott D. Weitzenhoffer
>
> > > > Thank you Trance, for this from Weitzenhoffer.  Loved it.
>
> > >  I feel the same way when I tell creationists that the dinosaurs were
> > > not in the Garden of Eden and get told that they were.
> > > thea
>
> > I get the same feeling when I tell you that the "Gap Theory" cannot be
> > true because it contradicts various scientific discoveries and you
> > keep telling me it is true. You're no more rational than the
> > creationists.
>
> Too bad you are too brainwashed to understand the difference.
> The Gap Theory by chance is the only thing that leaves you a human
> being looking for your ancestors.
> My ancestors were not Apes.  Were yours?

Not only were yiour ancestors apes you and are apes .

read you, dimwitted clod.

The Apes I have met in zoos are the ones who like to throw their
muck through the bars on you people standing on the outside.
I don't much like the filthy animal myself.
And, since humankind was made in the image of God, I think
this is another of those delusions sent by Satan, to blind men's
minds to the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 12, 11:52 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:

> ha ha ha ha ha.
> Too bad to be forgotten in the babble of your mind.
> you come across as a big fool.

It is in your mind that he comes across as a big fool. In his mind, it
is more likely that YOU (rather than HE) come across as a big fool.

> I tell you that there is a God in heaven who loves mankind (who HE made)
> so much that HE was willing to redeem them - and you are scornful.
> You tell me there is something wrong with me - and yes, you are right
> I am different.
> I have studied until I know with a knowing deep inside that Jesus Lives
> in me.  That Jesus is the answer to every problem of life.  That Jesus
> can save, keep and satisfy.  That Jesus changes people and circumstances
> when we look to Him as the author and finisher of our Faith.

> It is the most wonderful experience to know that your sins our forgiven.
> The sin of unbelief is the sin that sends people to hell.

Were the above two sentences authored by Jesus? If not, why do you
call him the author of your faith?

> Not believing that God Exists. Not acknowledging the God of the Universe
> as being alive and well and working on planet earth to redeem His Own.
> Seeing your unbelief, and how deeply entrenched your beliefs are,
> is like looking at muddy water and wondering how much sin you
> have in your life that has to be cleaned up in order to make you
> ready for heaven.  To know that Jesus takes all the muck
> and cleans us up is wonderful.

Did Jesus author the claim that he takes all the muck? If not, why do
you call him the author of your faith?

> To know that the *down-payment*
> of our future inheritance can be had here and now is glorious.
> To not have any fear of life or what is coming, because we know
> our God is in complete control of every aspect of our existence.
> You see, having a Christian father made all the difference in this
> gals life.  Having a father who knew how to pray.

Knowing how to pray is not one of the differences that having a
Christian father makes. A Muslim or SriVaishnava father too would have
known how to pray.

> Everyday to listen to his prayer of asking God to lead, guide,
> and direct our lives for the glory of Jesus.
> Wonderful, marvelous, matchless Amazing Grace of our
> Heavenly Father, God through Jesus Christ has redeemed
> us all.  All we have to do is accept His Provisions for our lives.

Do you glorify Jesus by proclaiming something he seldom or never
taught? (He didn't teach in the sermons on the Mount and Plain that
God redeems through him, did he?)

[ranjit_mathews@yahoo.com]

On Aug 12, 11:54 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Observer <mayors...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 9, 11:04 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > My ancestors were not Apes.  Were yours?
>

> > Not only were your ancestors apes you and are apes .

>
> > read you, dimwitted clod.
>
> The Apes I have met in zoos are the ones who like to throw their
> muck through the bars on you people standing on the outside.

You have met other apes too in zoos - the apes outside the cage.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 11, 11:52 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm *skeptical,* and since you have no actual evidence that what you
say is true, the rational explanation for why you are saying it is
because you are too frightened to accept the reality that Satan is
make-believe, and you're willing to demonize me in the process (which
is selfish - I don't deserve to be demonized, and neither does anyone
else - just to appease your neurotic fears).

> You tell me there is something wrong with me - and yes, you are right
> I am different.

No you aren't. There are millions and millions of people just like you
who are too frightened to accept reality, and instead retreat into an
intricate delusion that reassures them that they are immortal and that
the mean people (those people who keep pushing reality in your face)
will get their just desserts when God punishes them for eternity.

> I have studied until I know with a knowing deep inside that Jesus Lives
> in me.

You are playing make-believe to appease your fears, like billions of
others, just as I said.

> That Jesus is the answer to every problem of life.  That Jesus
> can save, keep and satisfy.  That Jesus changes people and circumstances
> when we look to Him as the author and finisher of our Faith.

Make-believe, make-believe, make-believe.

> It is the most wonderful experience to know that your sins our forgiven.

It is make-believe.

> The sin of unbelief is the sin that sends people to hell.

Your fantasies wouldn't be complete unless the mean people (the ones
who keep telling you about reality) are punished for eternity.

> Not believing that God Exists. Not acknowledging the God of the Universe
> as being alive and well and working on planet earth to redeem His Own.
> Seeing your unbelief, and how deeply entrenched your beliefs are,
> is like looking at muddy water and wondering how much sin you
> have in your life that has to be cleaned up in order to make you
> ready for heaven.

So you are demonizing me, just as I said. In reality I think Satan is
as imaginary as Jesus and God.

> To know that Jesus takes all the muck
> and cleans us up is wonderful.

It is delusional.

>  To know that the *down-payment*
> of our future inheritance can be had here and now is glorious.

It is delusional. It is make-believe.

> To not have any fear of life or what is coming, because we know
> our God is in complete control of every aspect of our existence.

You are terrified about what is coming.

> You see, having a Christian father made all the difference in this
> gals life.

I agree. You've been brainwashed into a make-believe world.

> Having a father who knew how to pray.

You had a father who knew how to brainwash his children.

> Everyday to listen to his prayer of asking God to lead, guide,
> and direct our lives for the glory of Jesus.
> Wonderful, marvelous, matchless Amazing Grace of our
> Heavenly Father, God through Jesus Christ has redeemed
> us all.  All we have to do is accept His Provisions for our lives.

I prefer reality to make-believe, especially creepy make-believe like
Christianity.

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[thea]

On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 2:15 AM, ranjit_...@yahoo.com <ranjit_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 12, 11:52 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:

> ha ha ha ha ha.
> Too bad to be forgotten in the babble of your mind.
> you come across as a big fool.

It is in your mind that he comes across as a big fool. In his mind, it
is more likely that YOU (rather than HE) come across as a big fool.

I realize this, and it is why I enjoy our *combating* spirits.  He keeps at
me and I keep at him.  In this way we keep the animosity going.  You will
always meet someone who opposes what you believe.  If you don't meet
someone, you are in a box where you will never have the opportunity to know
anything except what you are being hand fed.
I like to know what else is out there, and be able to make informed decisions
about everything I do.
 

> I tell you that there is a God in heaven who loves mankind (who HE made)
> so much that HE was willing to redeem them - and you are scornful.
> You tell me there is something wrong with me - and yes, you are right
> I am different.
> I have studied until I know with a knowing deep inside that Jesus Lives
> in me.  That Jesus is the answer to every problem of life.  That Jesus
> can save, keep and satisfy.  That Jesus changes people and circumstances
> when we look to Him as the author and finisher of our Faith.

> It is the most wonderful experience to know that your sins our forgiven.
> The sin of unbelief is the sin that sends people to hell.

Were the above two sentences authored by Jesus? If not, why do you
call him the author of your faith?

Jesus said that if we saw Him, we would see His Father in Heaven (God).
The only thing that can send you to hell, is not believing that God sent
His Only Begotten Son, Jesus to earth.  Not believing that God
raised His Only Begotten Son, Jesus, from the dead, as the first
fruit of redemption for all of us.

 

> Not believing that God Exists. Not acknowledging the God of the Universe
> as being alive and well and working on planet earth to redeem His Own.
> Seeing your unbelief, and how deeply entrenched your beliefs are,
> is like looking at muddy water and wondering how much sin you
> have in your life that has to be cleaned up in order to make you
> ready for heaven.  To know that Jesus takes all the muck
> and cleans us up is wonderful.

Did Jesus author the claim that he takes all the muck? If not, why do
you call him the author of your faith?

Jesus not only takes the muck, but God puts all the muck in our lives
in the *sea of God's forgetfulness*.
When I accept Jesus as Existing, HE accepts me.  Jesus took
all of the sins of humanity on the cross and all we have to do
is yelp the same way as the thief on the cross next to Jesus
said, *REMEMBER ME.*
To be accepted by Jesus and God the Father, is to believe they
are Who they say they are.

 

> To know that the *down-payment*
> of our future inheritance can be had here and now is glorious.
> To not have any fear of life or what is coming, because we know
> our God is in complete control of every aspect of our existence.
> You see, having a Christian father made all the difference in this
> gals life.  Having a father who knew how to pray.

Knowing how to pray is not one of the differences that having a
Christian father makes. A Muslim or SriVaishnava father too would have
known how to pray.

The question, I am coming to believe, is not so much in knowing how
to pray as in, *Do you know how to get the answer to your prayer?*
I can cry and pray and forever, and never see the answer.
But, when I know how to get the answer, I see miracles happen.
Psalms 50: 14-15 is a start.


 

> Everyday to listen to his prayer of asking God to lead, guide,
> and direct our lives for the glory of Jesus.
> Wonderful, marvelous, matchless Amazing Grace of our
> Heavenly Father, God through Jesus Christ has redeemed
> us all.  All we have to do is accept His Provisions for our lives.

Do you glorify Jesus by proclaiming something he seldom or never
taught? (He didn't teach in the sermons on the Mount and Plain that
God redeems through him, did he?)

To stay in the Kingdom message, which the gospels are, is to stay
in the wrong dispensation.  Jesus didn't come to the Gentiles either.
Jesus came to proclaim His Kingdom on earth.  It will come after
this Dispensation of the Grace of God to the Gentiles is over.
Our place and position in this Dispensation for the Gentiles and Israel,
is different than what Israel inherits.


 

[Tell it like it is.]

On Aug 12, 10:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 2:15 AM, ranjit_math...@yahoo.com <

> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Neil claims to be an atheist. All the Jews I meet in
town tell me they are atheists. They are not atheists. They are all,
and some of them viciously, ethnocentric.

[Tell it like it is.]

Tell the miners in the Peruvian Andes that Satan is
make believe. The miners have a name for Satan: CLAUSTROPHOBIA.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 16, 9:37 am, "Tell it like it is."

Oh yay, a collection of crackpots. What is your opinion of thea's "Gap
Theory"?

[LL]

LL. Is it impossible to be ethnocentric and an atheist at the same
time?

.........

On Aug 16, 9:32 am, "Tell it like it is."

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -

[LL]

LL. I'm afraid it has something to do with jeans.

.........

[Drafterman]

On Aug 16, 12:32 pm, "Tell it like it is."

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>                   Neil claims to be an atheist. All the Jews I meet in
> town tell me they are atheists. They are not atheists. They are all,

> and some of them viciously, ethnocentric.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

What does ethnocentrism have to do with atheism? What does the
ethnocentrism of the Jewish people you meet in town have to do with
Neil?

[Drafterman]

On Aug 16, 12:37 pm, "Tell it like it is."

> make believe. The miners have a name for Satan: CLAUSTROPHOBIA.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Symbolism is not evidence of Christianity. When I, an atheist, go
outside and say "It's hot as hell!" I am making being metaphorical. I
am not implicitly indicating an actual belief in a place (or state of
being) known popularly as "hell."

Furthermore, the Peruvian name for Satan, being a proper noun, is
simply Satán.

[etio]

>If the universe was created by a big bang...

Not quite.

Big Bang happens to be the theoretical point beyond which we can not build any credible scientific models.

Of course, the world existed before that... Only we are not sure what kind of world was that.

Now since universe wasn't created at Big Bang the rest is moot.

[360]

I use to be a Christian doing a rough transition in life. I realized
that it was more harmful than helpful. Of course it instilled in me a
couple of moral values that can be used here and there but nothing
that I couldn't eventually articulate myself. Religion teaches you to
wait for God to make things happen for you. God isn't going to save
the world. Mankind is the only ones who can save the world. God isn't
going to heal you. Mankind is responsible for developing medicines. We
are ONE. We are GOD. We determine our fate not Satan or God. Stop
waiting for a handout and make shit happen.

On Aug 12, 8:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 2:15 AM, ranjit_math...@yahoo.com <

[360]

It really saddens me to see posts like Thea's. I use to preach the
same kind of psycho babble and now I see how delusional I sounded. You
aren't an individual anymore Thea. It's truly saddening. While you're
laying in a bed waiting for "God" to perform a miracle, children are
getting cured of cancer because of the human mind. "Satan"
contaminated and all.

[thea]

Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.
Too funny.
I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
big bang,
and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*
thea

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Atheism vs Christianity" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/-/2Rsk1JNVRmkJ.

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 17, 6:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.

He didn't say there was no Big Bang.

> Too funny.
> I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
> the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
> big bang,
> and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
> were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*

Theologians never said there was a Big Bang.

> thea
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:00 PM, etio <etioquaesi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > *>**If the universe was created by a big bang...*

>
> > Not quite.
> > Big Bang happens to be the theoretical point beyond which we can not build
> > any credible scientific models.
> > Of course, the world existed before that... Only we are not sure what kind
> > of world was that.
>
> > Now since universe wasn't created at Big Bang the rest is moot.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/-/2Rsk1JNVRmkJ.
> > To post to this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at

> >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -

[360]

Big Bang or no Big Bang, you don't HAVE to worship SOMETHING. Accept
the things that cannot be proven and die faithful that there isn't
anything dreadful after life. When you know how to do that then you
know about faith.

On Aug 17, 7:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.
> Too funny.
> I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
> the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
> big bang,
> and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
> were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*
> thea
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:00 PM, etio <etioquaesi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > *>**If the universe was created by a big bang...*

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 17, 12:15 am, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> It really saddens me to see posts like Thea's. I use to preach the
> same kind of psycho babble and now I see how delusional I sounded.

Congratulations. How long has it been since you deconverted?

[etio]

@360

>Big Bang or no Big Bang, you don't HAVE to worship SOMETHING

>> I don't have to worship anything,

>Accept the things that cannot be proven ...

>> Why not accept the things that can be proven and extrapolate?

> When you know how to do that then you know about faith.

>> What makes you assume that I don't know about faith?

[Observer]

On Tuesday, August 9, 2011 9:26:00 PM UTC-7, 360 wrote:

I accept that, that is an option. My definition of God isn't an
Abrahamic one. It's simply whatever created us.

Observer

And what of the newest and most useful models of reality which conclude that the universe is limitless, boundless, border-less (infinite and eternal) eliminating any need for a creator or creation and that the segment there of to which we have privy is the natural of evolution of something akin to a false vacuum where in particles have, eternally, poped into and out of existence. Upon occasion such particles survive an prosper drawing both negative and positive energy from the variant levels of the, false vacuum like totality, till they begin an expansion as did our big bang.?

How then would you define your god when the entirety may boil down fo an equation of simple basic physical functions expressible in a brief sentense which clarifies how from the ultimate in simplicity the most complex is derived.?

Psychonomist

. .

 

It doesn't have to be
worshiped or provide any rules for you to follow. You are god's now
and you have the mind to create.

On Aug 9, 2:08 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 9, 3:25 am, 360 <stillloo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Well I'm more of an "The Grand Architect of the Universe" kind of
> > believer.
>
> LL: Then you accept the big bang and evolution. Why add an unprovable,
> unscientific concept onto it?
>
> ********
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 4:16 am, Trance Gemini <trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Rupert <rupertm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 9, 1:55 pm, "stillloo...@aol.com"
> > > > <stillloo...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > Why wouldn't the big bang be our God? If it's where we ultimately
> > > > > originated?
>
> > > > Because the idea of God involves more attributes than just being the
> > > > ultimate origin of our universe.
>
> > > This is true with the conception of the Abrahamic and other gods but not
> > > true with the conception of the Deist God.
>
> > > However, the problem with the conception of the Deist God is that it becomes
> > > rather an irrelevant god.
>
> > > And most people who want to believe in gods appear to need more than that.
>
> > > --

>
> > > "Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to
> > > play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and
> > > flies back to its flock to claim victory." — Scott D. Weitzenhoffer

On Tuesday, August 9, 2011 9:26:00 PM UTC-7, 360 wrote:

I accept that, that is an option. My definition of God isn't an
Abrahamic one. It's simply whatever created us. It doesn't have to be
worshiped or provide any rules for you to follow. You are god's now
and you have the mind to create.

On Aug 9, 2:08 pm, LL <llp...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Aug 9, 3:25 am, 360 <stillloo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Well I'm more of an "The Grand Architect of the Universe" kind of
> > believer.
>
> LL: Then you accept the big bang and evolution. Why add an unprovable,
> unscientific concept onto it?
>
> ********
>
>
>
> > On Aug 9, 4:16 am, Trance Gemini <trance...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 11:57 PM, Rupert <rupertm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 9, 1:55 pm, "stillloo...@aol.com"
> > > > <stillloo...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > Why wouldn't the big bang be our God? If it's where we ultimately
> > > > > originated?
>
> > > > Because the idea of God involves more attributes than just being the
> > > > ultimate origin of our universe.
>
> > > This is true with the conception of the Abrahamic and other gods but not
> > > true with the conception of the Deist God.
>
> > > However, the problem with the conception of the Deist God is that it becomes
> > > rather an irrelevant god.
>
> > > And most people who want to believe in gods appear to need more than that.
>
> > > --

[Observer]

On Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:21:47 AM UTC-7, etio wrote:

@360

>Big Bang or no Big Bang, you don't HAVE to worship SOMETHING

>> I don't have to worship anything,

>Accept the things that cannot be proven ..

 

.

>> Why not accept the things that can be proven and extrapolate?

Observer

An excellent retort  . Bravo !

Dave

[LL]

On Aug 17, 8:30 am, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 17, 6:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.
>
> He didn't say there was no Big Bang.
>
> > Too funny.
> > I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
> > the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
> > big bang,
> > and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
> > were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*
>
> Theologians never said there was a Big Bang.

LL: In fact, most would say there wasn't one. Most don't like the
evolution stuff that naturally follows.


************************

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > thea
>
> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:00 PM, etio <etioquaesi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > *>**If the universe was created by a big bang...*
>
> > > Not quite.
> > > Big Bang happens to be the theoretical point beyond which we can not build
> > > any credible scientific models.
> > > Of course, the world existed before that... Only we are not sure what kind
> > > of world was that.
>
> > > Now since universe wasn't created at Big Bang the rest is moot.
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "Atheism vs Christianity" group.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >https://groups.google.com/d/msg/atheism-vs-christianity/-/2Rsk1JNVRmkJ.
> > > To post to this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > atheism-vs-christ...@googlegroups.com.
> > > For more options, visit this group at

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -

[thea]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 17, 12:15 am, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> It really saddens me to see posts like Thea's. I use to preach the
> same kind of psycho babble and now I see how delusional I sounded.

Congratulations. How long has it been since you deconverted?

> You aren't an individual anymore Thea. It's truly saddening. While you're
> laying in a bed waiting for "God" to perform a miracle, children are
> getting cured of cancer because of the human mind. "Satan"
> contaminated and all.

When you see the miracles that can and do happen, when someone grabs hold
of the way God works through the Power of Praise in your life -- healed instantly,
or sometimes it takes awhile for you to get used to saying Thank You.
Because there are so many Christians like you were, who never came on into
the Way the Truth and the Life of living for Jesus with Power -- you never knew
that you could feed people on less than you thought you had.
You never felt a loaf of bread staying the same size even though you were feeding
four people and cutting slices off.  You never watched a young man wake up
out of a comma, because you were praising Jesus for your salvation.
You never prayed and stayed on your knees until God told you how to get
your next job (and then ended up with four jobs).
You never --
In other words, you quit -- a lot of people do -- because they don't know how
to find out how the Bible works.  Never ask, never search with their whole hearts,
so never find the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ.
thea

 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 17, 3:47 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

I didn't ask you to describe your delusions, I asked 360 how long ago
he got rid of his.

[thea]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 17, 6:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.

He didn't say there was no Big Bang.

> Too funny.
> I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
> the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
> big bang,
> and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
> were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*

Theologians never said there was a Big Bang.

Oh, I see now, you apparently don't get that
GOD SPOKE AND IT WAS IMMEDIATELY SO.
Big Bang here we are

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 17, 3:58 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> > On Aug 17, 6:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.
>
> > He didn't say there was no Big Bang.
>
> > > Too funny.
> > > I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
> > > the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
> > > big bang,
> > > and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
> > > were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*
>
> > Theologians never said there was a Big Bang.
>
> Oh, I see now, you apparently don't get that
> GOD SPOKE AND IT WAS IMMEDIATELY SO.
> Big Bang here we are

You're obviously imagining things again; there's no mention of the Big
Bang in the Bible.

[360]

I'll say about 4 months. I promise you Christianity is capable of
putting people in a delusional trance. I find no favor in it.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 17, 6:42 pm, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> I'll say about 4 months. I promise you Christianity is capable of
> putting people in a delusional trance.

I've noticed, believe me. Thea is a prime example.

> I find no favor in it.

So what was it that broke the spell?

> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.-Hidequoted text -

[360]

Common sense is what broke the spell. It's easy to destroy work habits
and it's capable of turning an individual bi-polar. You view mankind
as scum because you've been told they have been corrupted but you have
to LOVE this corrupted mankind. You fail to realize the advantages and
concept of folly and learning. It's just evil and only God can save
you from it. It's crazy and causes regression.

> > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/atheism-vs-christianity?hl=en.-Hidequotedtext -

[thea]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 17, 3:58 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:

>
> > On Aug 17, 6:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.
>
> > He didn't say there was no Big Bang.
>
> > > Too funny.
> > > I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
> > > the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
> > > big bang,
> > > and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
> > > were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*
>
> > Theologians never said there was a Big Bang.
>
> Oh, I see now, you apparently don't get that
> GOD SPOKE AND IT WAS IMMEDIATELY SO.
> Big Bang here we are

You're obviously imagining things again; there's no mention of the Big
Bang in the Bible.

This is what happens when someone wants the Bible to use the same language
today that they did in antiquity.  In other words you are saying that the Bible
doesn't say this or that, and because you really don't know the Bible you
are assuming that it doesn't say this or that.

When I say that the Big Bang Theory matches some of what the Bible says
and give a direct quote *God spoke and it was immediately so* you say
that is not the one time all important start to the universe's being remade.

*God spoke and it was so* remade the universe in a single instant of something
we now call time.






 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 18, 1:25 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 17, 3:58 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com
> > >wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 17, 6:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.
>
> > > > He didn't say there was no Big Bang.
>
> > > > > Too funny.
> > > > > I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
> > > > > the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
> > > > > big bang,
> > > > > and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
> > > > > were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*
>
> > > > Theologians never said there was a Big Bang.
>
> > > Oh, I see now, you apparently don't get that
> > > GOD SPOKE AND IT WAS IMMEDIATELY SO.
> > > Big Bang here we are
>
> > You're obviously imagining things again; there's no mention of the Big
> > Bang in the Bible.
>
> This is what happens when someone wants the Bible to use the same language
> today that they did in antiquity.

The Big Bang contradicts Genesis.

>  In other words you are saying that the
> Bible
> doesn't say this or that, and because you really don't know the Bible you
> are assuming that it doesn't say this or that.

I really do know the Bible doesn't say that there was a Big Bang.

> When I say that the Big Bang Theory matches some of what the Bible says
> and give a direct quote *God spoke and it was immediately so* you say
> that is not the one time all important start to the universe's being remade.

I'm saying that there is no mention of the Big Bang in the Bible, and
that Genesis contradicts the Big Bang.

> *God spoke and it was so* remade the universe in a single instant of
> something
> we now call time.

Only in your imagination.

> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Steve in Virginia]

No,...no one's ancestors were apes. However, monkeys, apes and humans
all shared a common ancestor that carried the genetic traits for all
three distinct species.

Steve

On Aug 9, 2:04 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > "Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying
> > to
> > > > play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the
> > board, and
> > > > flies back to its flock to claim victory." — Scott D. Weitzenhoffer
>

> > > > Thank you Trance, for this from Weitzenhoffer.  Loved it.
>
> > >  I feel the same way when I tell creationists that the dinosaurs were
> > > not in the Garden of Eden and get told that they were.
> > > thea
>
> > I get the same feeling when I tell you that the "Gap Theory" cannot be
> > true because it contradicts various scientific discoveries and you
> > keep telling me it is true. You're no more rational than the
> > creationists.
>
> Too bad you are too brainwashed to understand the difference.

> The Gap Theory by chance is the only thing that leaves you a human
> being looking for your ancestors.

> My ancestors were not Apes.  Were yours?

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 17, 7:27 pm, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:

> Common sense is what broke the spell. It's easy to destroy work habits
> and it's capable of turning an individual bi-polar.

I think bipolarism is a genetic condition, but I think I know what
you're getting at.

> You view mankind
> as scum because you've been told they have been corrupted but you have
> to LOVE this corrupted mankind. You fail to realize the advantages and
> concept of folly and learning. It's just evil and only God can save
> you from it. It's crazy and causes regression.

So it was a gradual acculmulative process, and there wasn't one thing/
person in particular that made the difference for you? Were you raised
in a strict Christian family, or were they more relaxed about it -
i.e. will they disown you now that you're an atheist?

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[360]

Actually a young hip hop artist inspired me more than the bible ever
did. Check out this album cover and the middle picture of it (notice
the shackles on the hands). He described it as "mental slavery."
http://planetill.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/lil-b-i-m-gay.jpg
That was exactly how I was feeling. Like a slave to this Jesus
character and his daddy. My family will never know what I believe in
or don't believe it. Neither do they care as long as I'm successful
and happy.

> ...
>
> read more »

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 18, 7:47 am, 360 <stilllookatme...@aol.com> wrote:
> Actually a young hip hop artist inspired me more than the bible ever
> did. Check out this album cover and the middle picture of it (notice
> the shackles on the hands). He described it as "mental slavery."http://planetill.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/lil-b-i-m-gay.jpg
> That was exactly how I was feeling. Like a slave to this Jesus
> character and his daddy. My family will never know what I believe in
> or don't believe it. Neither do they care as long as I'm successful
> and happy.

Must be a relief for you, way to go.

[thea]

On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:45 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m...@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Aug 18, 1:25 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:18 PM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com>wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 17, 3:58 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 8:30 AM, Neil Kelsey <neil_m_kel...@hotmail.com
> > >wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 17, 6:17 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Oh, I see, and you were there to see that there was no big bang.
>
> > > > He didn't say there was no Big Bang.
>
> > > > > Too funny.
> > > > > I remember way back when the Readers Digest had an article about
> > > > > the beginning of the world.  The scientist said that there was a
> > > > > big bang,
> > > > > and someone had written that all of the Theologians from times past
> > > > > were standing on the mountain top saying *we told you so.*
>
> > > > Theologians never said there was a Big Bang.
>
> > > Oh, I see now, you apparently don't get that
> > > GOD SPOKE AND IT WAS IMMEDIATELY SO.
> > > Big Bang here we are
>
> > You're obviously imagining things again; there's no mention of the Big
> > Bang in the Bible.
>
> This is what happens when someone wants the Bible to use the same language
> today that they did in antiquity.

The Big Bang contradicts Genesis.

The Big Bang does not contradict Genesis - that is only your *hope it does* status.
The Big Bang is how the world was formed -- God spoke and whoopee it just
appeared.  If that ain't the Big Bang eat your hat.
In other words, because most people don't understand the differences between
Vs. 1 and vs. 2 of Genesis 1, they have decided that God cannot reveal to
mankind how HE did it.
God the Father of Jesus is all the time revealing *how it was done* to science,
and most of what we discovered so far is only part and parcel of what yet is
to be discovered.  If we knew all the truth, we would be creating universes
of our own all the time, like we will be doing when we get to heaven.
It is our *darkness* caused from Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden that
gives us only half of the revealed truth.  We know *see through a glass
darkly* and have to await the resurrection or Rapture, in order to understand
the whole

Heaven is going to be an exciting place to be, because we will understand how
everything happened.
And no I don't believe in Global warming.  There is probably 1200 years yet
of this old universe to be alive and well, before we see a new Universe.
 

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 18, 9:12 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

Of course it does. The Big Bang is a natural (non-supernatural)
process whose remnants after 15 billion years can still be seen today
- e.g. the background radiation in space and the expansion of the
universe. The magical creation of the universe in Genesis took 6 days.
That's a contradiction. The stars and planets took millions and
billions of years to form via natural processes, and stars and planets
are *still forming* to this day. On the other hand, in Genesis the
stars and planets were formed in 6 days. That's a contradiction. Life
appeared on earth about 12 billion years after the Big Bang, In the
Bible, life appeared on earth within 6 days after the beginning of the
universe. That's another contradiction. I don't expect you will
understand any of this.

> that is only your *hope it does*
> status.

No, my ability to reason and read for comprehension tells me that the
Big Bang contradicts Genesis. I don't expect you will understand
this.

> The Big Bang is how the world was formed -- God spoke and whoopee it just
> appeared.

You obviously haven't got a clue about the Big Bang.

>  If that ain't the Big Bang eat your hat.

That ain't the Big Bang. You really are clueless.

> In other words, because most people don't understand the differences between
> Vs. 1 and vs. 2 of Genesis 1, they have decided that God cannot reveal to
> mankind how HE did it.

No, you just haven't got a clue about what the Big Bang is.

> God the Father of Jesus is all the time revealing *how it was done* to
> science,

No he isn't. The Bible contradicts science. The problem here is that
you haven't got a clue about science.

> and most of what we discovered so far is only part and parcel of what yet is
> to be discovered.

That may be true, but the part we have discovered so far contradicts
the Bible.

>  If we knew all the truth, we would be creating universes
> of our own all the time,

No we wouldn't.

> like we will be doing when we get to heaven.

Heaven only exists in your imagination.

> It is our *darkness* caused from Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden that
> gives us only half of the revealed truth.  We know *see through a glass
> darkly* and have to await the resurrection or Rapture, in order to
> understand
> the whole
>
> Heaven is going to be an exciting place to be, because we will understand
> how
> everything happened.
> And no I don't believe in Global warming.  There is probably 1200 years yet
> of this old universe to be alive and well, before we see a new Universe.

You're a crackpot of the highest order.

* snip *

[etio]

If Bible is divine its language must not be an excuse for anything.

God (assuming s/he exists), is stronger than language.

[thea]

ha ha ha -- Neil, I have been telling you for a few years now that
the 6 days was just the remake of the universe.  The universe
was already here -- the earth itself was null and void in Genesis 1:2.
The whole universe was messed up when Satan sinned in heaven,
and God restored the earth so that we human beings could take
Satan's place as he is tossed out of heaven forever and ever.
Go get a Bible and reread it.  It sure didn't take the first time
through -- or did you read it a book at a time, or just a few
verses and then skip the rest of the chapters.
You are quoting from what someone else has told you?

God made this universe a long time ago with a Big Bang -- HE
spoke and it was so.
However, when Satan sinned, he messed up what was on earth,
and that is when the Dinosaurs disappeared.

You are not catching on at all.


 

>  that is only your *hope it does*
> status.

No, my ability to reason and read for comprehension tells me that the
Big Bang contradicts Genesis. I don't expect you will understand
this.

> The Big Bang is how the world was formed -- God spoke and whoopee it just
> appeared.

You obviously haven't got a clue about the Big Bang.

You obviously don't believe that God did anything -- therefore you cannot ever
understand what HE did do.
 

>  If that ain't the Big Bang eat your hat.

That ain't the Big Bang. You really are clueless.

You are the clueless one.  The Bible and science completely match, except
where science has yet to put all the answers completely together.

> In other words, because most people don't understand the differences between
> Vs. 1 and vs. 2 of Genesis 1, they have decided that God cannot reveal to
> mankind how HE did it.

No, you just haven't got a clue about what the Big Bang is.

Is this all you've got to say?
 

> God the Father of Jesus is all the time revealing *how it was done* to
> science,

No he isn't. The Bible contradicts science. The problem here is that
you haven't got a clue about science.

Science and the Bible match on many subjects.  And, the subjects they
match on, it is apparent that man finally got wise.

> and most of what we discovered so far is only part and parcel of what yet is
> to be discovered.

That may be true, but the part we have discovered so far contradicts
the Bible.

Nope - there is no contradiction between the Bible and science.
The problem is with people who think they know the Bible and don't
know anything about science.
And, since everyone believes what a kook says -- the scientist won't take
a look at the Bible -- or they would find a lot of the answers they are looking for.

 

>  If we knew all the truth, we would be creating universes
> of our own all the time,

No we wouldn't.

You would be too scared to do anything.
 

> like we will be doing when we get to heaven.

Heaven only exists in your imagination.

It is the promise for all who believe that God raised Jesus from the dead.
I believe, so I get the promise.
 

> It is our *darkness* caused from Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden that
> gives us only half of the revealed truth.  We know *see through a glass
> darkly* and have to await the resurrection or Rapture, in order to
> understand
> the whole
>
> Heaven is going to be an exciting place to be, because we will understand
> how
> everything happened.
> And no I don't believe in Global warming.  There is probably 1200 years yet
> of this old universe to be alive and well, before we see a new Universe.

You're a crackpot of the highest order.

You are so far out in left field, that it will take a gillion years in hell for you to
realize that you landed in hell.

 

* snip *

[Neil Kelsey]

On Aug 18, 2:49 pm, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know - you're a crackpot.

>  The universe
> was already here -- the earth itself was null and void in Genesis 1:2.

There's no evidence the universe was already here before the Big Bang,
or that the earth was ever "null and void." Your'e a crackpot, thea.

> The whole universe was messed up when Satan sinned in heaven,

Satan and heaven are figments of your imagination. You're a crackpot,
thea.

> and God restored the earth so that we human beings could take
> Satan's place as he is tossed out of heaven forever and ever.

There's no evidence that the earth was "restored", and Satan and
heaven are figments of your imagination. You're a crackpot, thea.

> Go get a Bible and reread it.  It sure didn't take the first time
> through --

Just because I don't believe the Bible doesn't mean I don't understand
it. The Bible is no more complicated than Winnie the Pooh, but not
nearly as sensible.

> or did you read it a book at a time, or just a few
> verses and then skip the rest of the chapters.

Read the whole idiotic thing from cover to cover. It was the most
tedious book I've ever read, even worse than Mein Kampf.

> You are quoting from what someone else has told you?

Your version of Christianity contradicts the Big Bang theory the same
as any other version of Christianity does. Perhaps more.

> God made this universe a long time ago with a Big Bang --

No, he didn't. You clearly don't understand the Big Bang theory,
which, among other things says that this universe was only formed
once, which contradicts your idiotic belief that this universe was
magically created twice.

> HE spoke and it was so.

It's childish of you to believe in magic.

> However, when Satan sinned, he messed up what was on earth,
> and that is when the Dinosaurs disappeared.

The dinosaurs didn't disappear thea; they evolved into birds.

> You are not catching on at all.

I caught on long ago - you're a complete crackpot.

Yup.

> there is no contradiction between the Bible and science.

Sure there is; you're just too dumb to understand it. That is the only
rational explanation.

> The problem is with people who think they know the Bible and don't
> know anything about science.

Right, that would be you.

> And, since everyone believes what a kook says -- the scientist won't take
> a look at the Bible -- or they would find a lot of the answers they are
> looking for.

Scientists are well aware of what the Bible says, and that many
scientific discoveries have contradicted the Bible (including the Big
Bang).

> > >  If we knew all the truth, we would be creating universes
> > > of our own all the time,
>
> > No we wouldn't.
>
> You would be too scared to do anything.

No, I wouldn't. I just know that humans can't create universes.

> > > like we will be doing when we get to heaven.
>
> > Heaven only exists in your imagination.
>
> It is the promise for all who believe that God raised Jesus from the dead.
> I believe, so I get the promise.

This "promise" is a figment of your imagination, a way for you to
escape from scary reality.

> > > It is our *darkness* caused from Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden that
> > > gives us only half of the revealed truth.  We know *see through a glass
> > > darkly* and have to await the resurrection or Rapture, in order to
> > > understand
> > > the whole
>
> > > Heaven is going to be an exciting place to be, because we will understand
> > > how
> > > everything happened.
> > > And no I don't believe in Global warming.  There is probably 1200 years
> > yet
> > > of this old universe to be alive and well, before we see a new Universe.
>
> > You're a crackpot of the highest order.
>
> You are so far out in left field,

No I'm not. I've got scientific evidence on my side.

> that it will take a gillion years in hell
> for you to
> realize that you landed in hell.

Your punishment fantasies aren't going to convince me that you're not
a crackpot.

[LL]

On Aug 18, 10:08 am, etio <etioquaesi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If Bible is divine its language must not be an excuse for anything.
> God (assuming s/he exists), is stronger than language.

LL. Which means what, exactly?

.......