Trouble getting positionless weather packets to post aprs.fi

[K6LCM]

I am a teacher in Santa Barbara, Calif.  Last year, my students designed and flew a near space balloon capsule over the California Central Coast.  This year a new group has designed a second more complex near space capsule with more APRS gadgets and an ATV transmitter.  We are scheduled to launch in 8 days!

An APRS issue just cropped up this week.  Basically we have an Arduino that is the control brain of the enviornmental sensor array.  The data is then fed, via Byonics APRS radio to the APRS system on 144.39 through the local digipeater igate.  Up until testing this week we had successfully fed weather data into aprs.fi where the site drew pretty graphs based off of data at 10-min intervals.

http://aprs.fi/weather/?call=KJ6UGF-7&date_start=2012-04-01+05%3A01%3A56&date_end=2012-04-27+05%3A01%3A56

This week, we discovered that aprs.fi was not only no longer drawing weather graphs from our position-less weather packets, it wasn't receiving raw weather packets at all from our setup!  The only packets aprs.fi would display in the raw feed were the separate position reports from our GPS APRS reporter unit or manually entered test packets starting with a ">".  The position-less packets from our Arduino's Byonics TinyTrak RTG radio are now being ignored altogether by aprs.fi

http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=KJ6UGF-7

However, you can see on findu.com that the APRS packets are reaching the Web and being graphed via that site.
http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=kj6ugf-7

I have double checked that our packets are formed correctly, even sent identical weather information as copied from a known station that is working.
_04271111c308s000g000t053r000p006P005h00b10162tU2k

I have even tried changing the callsign and path to match known working stations, but I've had no luck.  

K6TZ-11 is an example of a station that does exactly what we need ours to do.  It sends position reports and weather data reports in separate packets.  K6TZ-11's data appears to be working correctly on both findu and aprs.fi.  I have even tried copy and pasting exact packets from K6TZ-11 into a terminal program and have feed them into the TinyTrak.  Again, they show up in findu but not aprs.fi.

We can launch as-is but it would be really great to know why this is happening and be able to see our weather graphs in the pretty single interface of aprs.fi.  Any help you can provide is appreciated!

[Heikki Hannikainen]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012, K6LCM wrote:

> This week, we discovered that aprs.fi was not only no longer drawing weather
> graphs from our position-less weather packets, it wasn't receiving raw
> weather packets at all from our setup!  The only packets aprs.fi would
> display in the raw feed were the separate position reports from our GPS APRS
> reporter unit or manually entered test packets starting with a ">".  The
> position-less packets from our Arduino's Byonics TinyTrak RTG radio are now
> being ignored altogether by aprs.fi
> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=KJ6UGF-7
>
> However, you can see on findu.com that the APRS packets are reaching the Web
> and being graphed via that site.
> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=kj6ugf-7

To see the timestamps too:

http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=kj6ugf-7&time=1

findu.com is not receiving your position packets. It's only getting the
weather packets and the status packet. So, why would this be a problem on
aprs.fi?

The raw packets display displays raw packets as they are received from the
APRS-IS. After all, it's the "raw packets" display. If the packets are not
in the raw packets display, aprs.fi is not receiving those packets from
the APRS-IS.

If aprs.fi is ignoring some packets, they will still be shown in the raw
packets display, and I've tried hard to make sure that the reason for
ignoring is displayed in that view (you might have noticed the red error
messages shown for corrupted or duplicate packets).

> I have even tried changing the callsign and path to match known working
> stations, but I've had no luck.  

That might actually make it worse.

Is there any chance that you would be logging in to some APRS-IS server
with the callsign KJ6UGF-7 ? APRS-IS servers drop packets coming from
other servers, if there is local client logged in with that callsign.

In any case, this does not seem to be a problem with aprs.fi, as the
packets are not coming to aprs.fi. It's probably a problem somewhere on
the APRS-IS (and not a topic of this discussion group).

- Hessu

[K6LCM]

Hessu,

For the sake of clarity I would like to use a specific packet which I have just generated manually as an example.  In the past, I would send a positionless weather packet like this and it would show up both in aprs.fi and findu.  As of today, I no longer see this in aprs.fi raw data or as part of the weather reporting graphs on the site.

On findu at: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=kj6ugf-7

you will see the below packet from 0808 UTC which is presently the most recent packet.  This packet is not appearing in aprs.fi.  It would seem to me that this packet made it through the APRS-IS servers as a valid non-duplicated packet and that it is simply being ignored by aprs.fi.  I am not logged in using that call sign.  Am I missing something?  I have not changed anything on my end in the way of configuration.

KJ6UGF-7>APTW01,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,K6TZ-10:_04270108c038s024g027t042r000p035P000h99b10181tU2k

[Heikki Hannikainen]

For the sake of clarity:

If it's not in the raw packets view, aprs.fi is not getting it from the
APRS-IS.

If it's not in the raw packets view, aprs.fi has not received it from the
APRS-IS servers, and aprs.fi has not had a chance to filter or ignore or
drop it.

If it's not in the raw packets view, there is not much that I can do about
it.

I have not changed anything here either - the software processes
collecting data from the APRS-IS and inserting it in the database have
been running without interruption or restarts since April 11th. The last
upgrades to the web view were on April 12th
(http://aprs.fi/service-status/).

If you look at:

http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=KJ6UGF-7

you will see numerous position packets transmitted on 2012-04-26. They do
not appear on findu.com:

http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=kj6ugf-7&time=1

Is that a fault of aprs.fi, too? APRS-IS gives position packets to
aprs.fi, and weather packets to findu.com. Fair split. :)

Sorry!

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- Hessu

[Levi C. Maaia]

I think the missing data on findu may have been due to a purge on their end.  I did see all of the data appear there at one point.   During this testing, I have never seen a packet accepted by aprs.fi that did not at least appear in findu.com while I was monitoring.

I have an entirely different call sign which we also used for some additional testing K6LCM-11.  You will see that the missing data is on the aprs.fi side in this case.

http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=k6lcm-11

http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=k6lcm-11&time=1

Using the Windows program APRS-IS 32 I monitored the servers directly while I sent a packet to confirm that APRS-IS was in fact receiving them.  I resent the below packet:

20120427084430,KJ6UGF-7>APTW01,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1,qAR,K6TZ-10:_04270108c038s024g027t042r000p035P000h99b10181tU2k

...and confirmed receipt through APRS-IS 32 program as well as findu but it is not appearing on aprs.fi.  It seems that the link between aprs.fi and the servers is at issue.

LCM

[Heikki Hannikainen]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2012, Levi C. Maaia wrote:

> I think the missing data on findu may have been due to a purge on their end.
>  I did see all of the data appear there at one point.   During this testing,
> I have never seen a packet accepted by aprs.fi that did not at least appear
> in findu.com while I was monitoring.

Ok. It is somewhat surprising if findu deletes new raw packets quicker
than old raw packets. But maybe that's what happens.

> I have an entirely different call sign which we also used for some
> additional testing K6LCM-11.  You will see that the missing data is on the
> aprs.fi side in this case.
> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=k6lcm-11
> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=k6lcm-11&time=1

Yes, random packets seem to be missing.

20120427050350,K6LCM-11>APTW01,WIDE2-2,qAR,K6TZ-10:.testing
20120427050406,K6LCM-11>APTW01,WIDE2-2,qAR,K6TZ-10:hello
20120427050417,K6LCM-11>APTW01,WIDE2-2,qAR,K6TZ-10:>hello

Out of those three, aprs.fi only got the status packet (within a second
from findu, so at the time there were no bad delays involved):

2012-04-27 05:04:17 UTC: K6LCM-11>APTW01,WIDE2-2,qAR,K6TZ-10:>hello

> Using the Windows program APRS-IS 32 I monitored the servers directly while
> I sent a packet to confirm that APRS-IS was in fact receiving them.  I

There are almost a hundred different APRS-IS servers. It seems like only
some of those servers are now receiving your data, and aprs.fi happens to
be connected to a server which does not receive the data.

The problem is with the APRS-IS, not with aprs.fi. I would greatly
appreciate if Someone Else (TM) had time to investigate the APRS-IS issue,
as I'm a bit busy with developing aprs.fi and other things in life right
now. Levi, you could try transmitting packets to different APRS-IS
servers, with another client connected to another server, and try to find
the problematic APRS-IS server or link. aprs.fi is usually (but not
always) connected to the T2FINLAND server. It's most likely a problem with
a server somewhere between T2FINLAND and the igate you're using (K6TZ-10).

In any case, when you find the problematic servers (or even if you don't),
please contact the APRS-IS server operators, as this clearly is an APRS-IS
problem, not a problem with aprs.fi.

You're not alone with this problem, though - every month or two someone
comes complaining about packets not getting to aprs.fi. I am getting more
than slightly annoyed when some people insist it's aprs.fi's fault when
the packets are simply not coming out of the APRS-IS.

> ...and confirmed receipt through APRS-IS 32 program as well as findu but
> it is not appearing on aprs.fi.  It seems that the link between aprs.fi
> and the servers is at issue.

The link between aprs.fi and the APRS-IS is generally working fine. If it
stops working, there will be a very noticeable gap or drop in the graph
titled "Number of packets received from APRS-IS per second":

http://aprs.fi/stats/daily

If the rate of packets drops below a threshold, I will also get an email
and an SMS about it from the Nagios monitor/alarm system, and even a
POCSAG beeper text message transmitted on 144.975 MHz, and text message on
my 70 cm DMR / MotoTRBO radio if it happens to be turned on.

Also, if that should fail, there will be a large number of users
complaining about it here pretty soon.

- Hessu

[Heikki Hannikainen]

On Fri, 27 Apr 2012, Heikki Hannikainen wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2012, Levi C. Maaia wrote:
>> I have an entirely different call sign which we also used for some
>> additional testing K6LCM-11.  You will see that the missing data is on the
>> aprs.fi side in this case.
>> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=k6lcm-11
>> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/raw.cgi?call=k6lcm-11&time=1
>
> Yes, random packets seem to be missing.

The problem was found by both Lynn W Deffenbaugh (MR) and Phil Pacier,
AD6NH, on Monday. Some aprs2.net T2 hub servers were connecting to
filtered ports of the aprs.net core servers, instead of the unfiltered
10152 ports. There were filters set which tried to catch all packets but
that didn't quite work.

Sometimes aprs.fi would randomly end up being connected to the APRS-IS
through these hubs and missing some of the data due to the filtering.

The T2 hub server configurations have now been fixed and all should be
well.

Big thanks to Lynn and Phil for the investigative work and the T2 hub ops
who were quick to fix it!

I'll look into getting connected to all of the T2 hubs simultaenously to
generate a more redundant feed for aprs.fi.

- Hessu