Is Seattle Alt.NET dead?
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Michael Ibarra
Oct 17, 2011, 4:30:14 PM10/17/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
Not trolling for emotional responses here, but I've been wondering for several months now and I have to ask...
Is Seattle Alt.NET dead?
It seems as though the monthly meetings are rarely attended. The google group discussions don't seem to have the vibrant, engaging conversations they used to, and it seems that most of the activity takes place in the twittverse (not a totally bad thing, IMHO).
In addition most of the interest from those active in the group is more Alt than .NET (also not a bad thing, IMHO).
Now, having blurted out these possibly myopic observations, does anyone else see things similarly?
Is it time to "persevere or pivot?"
Should we move away from the Open Spaces monthly format and more towards an agenda driven format with topics and presenters on topics?
Should we focus not just .NET but LAMP stack?
Or should we just hold a wake?
Mike
Tegan M
Oct 17, 2011, 5:04:37 PM10/17/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
Well, the conference this year certainly didn't seem dead. And from what I heard there, the Seattle group has been going stronger than the global "movement," which may in fact be dead.
I think the important question is, what is "Alt" about "Alt.NET?" What need are we serving? Is Alt.NET intended to be a non-MS-controlled user group for MS technologies, or a potential path off these tech stacks? (paranoid glance around for presence of Scott Bellware, who argued for the latter at the annual conference this year). What are people really interested in talking about, and why aren't the monthly meetings appealing? My main reason for rarely attending is the time commitment of an all-day event.
- Tegan
I think the important question is, what is "Alt" about "Alt.NET?" What need are we serving? Is Alt.NET intended to be a non-MS-controlled user group for MS technologies, or a potential path off these tech stacks? (paranoid glance around for presence of Scott Bellware, who argued for the latter at the annual conference this year). What are people really interested in talking about, and why aren't the monthly meetings appealing? My main reason for rarely attending is the time commitment of an all-day event.
- Tegan
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Eric Ridgeway
Oct 17, 2011, 5:07:58 PM10/17/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
Since Twitter is being dumb ...
@darkxanthos @brian_henderson @woan @bm2yogi @notmyself ... I just bought altdot.net (could be waste) but if someone wants it let me know
Justin Bozonier
Oct 17, 2011, 6:37:29 PM10/17/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
The meetings are BOORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGGG. Seriously. Look how long we debated the merits of BDD without all of us just trying it. Heroku? God no not until AppHabor came around and even then... how many of you have tried it? Node.js? F#? Cool side projects? "Nah don't have time."
Chris Bilson rips up new languages and has tons to offer. He's the kind of person you want more of. Bobby Johnson held workshops to expose people to Ruby. Kelly Leahy donates his house every year to an awesome BBQ and opens himself up to talk about crazy CS topics that make me wet myself. There was the TDD workshop that Bobby and Chris co-led.. Oh yeah the Hackathon that Eric Ridgeway pulled together. Aeden has paired with several different members of the community to understand the different perspectives and fundamentally altered some of mine. James Thigpen introduced me to Heroku/Ruby so I could ship code faster and not just wank in my room... #Awesome
Alt.NET started as a community of prissy complainers. I was one of them. I had thought that we made a great turn for the better, but the lack of sharing is indicative of the opposite. Just take a look at this thread: What need are we serving? Let's buy a domain name? Screw the label "Alt.NET" name and movement. It's less valuable than toilet water after bad mexican food. Do something. Share it. All of you. The name is and will be what you make of it.
If you don't make anything then this group is dead. You can't be a passive participant in a group of people who pride themselves as change agents and the cream of the crop.
If you enjoy the group just stop responding to this thread and post some of the awesome you've been thinking that bucks trends and makes your friends at work uncomfortable. Link us to your github project that's been a labor of love and a shining example of your craftsmanship.
If you can't think of anything to share, make something worth sharing and then share it. Be the change you hope to see.
-Justin
Chris Bilson rips up new languages and has tons to offer. He's the kind of person you want more of. Bobby Johnson held workshops to expose people to Ruby. Kelly Leahy donates his house every year to an awesome BBQ and opens himself up to talk about crazy CS topics that make me wet myself. There was the TDD workshop that Bobby and Chris co-led.. Oh yeah the Hackathon that Eric Ridgeway pulled together. Aeden has paired with several different members of the community to understand the different perspectives and fundamentally altered some of mine. James Thigpen introduced me to Heroku/Ruby so I could ship code faster and not just wank in my room... #Awesome
Alt.NET started as a community of prissy complainers. I was one of them. I had thought that we made a great turn for the better, but the lack of sharing is indicative of the opposite. Just take a look at this thread: What need are we serving? Let's buy a domain name? Screw the label "Alt.NET" name and movement. It's less valuable than toilet water after bad mexican food. Do something. Share it. All of you. The name is and will be what you make of it.
If you don't make anything then this group is dead. You can't be a passive participant in a group of people who pride themselves as change agents and the cream of the crop.
If you enjoy the group just stop responding to this thread and post some of the awesome you've been thinking that bucks trends and makes your friends at work uncomfortable. Link us to your github project that's been a labor of love and a shining example of your craftsmanship.
If you can't think of anything to share, make something worth sharing and then share it. Be the change you hope to see.
-Justin
Eric Ridgeway
Oct 17, 2011, 7:22:08 PM10/17/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
To be honest I bought the domain in case someone felt the need to do something awesome with it ... Personally I don't care for the name any more ... I met lots of great people all of which are members of this list ... I learn from them every day and grow as a developer because of them and their encouragement to try new things ..... Works for me ...
Thanks guys ...
Eric Ridgeway
Oct 17, 2011, 7:22:40 PM10/17/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
And by guys I mean guys/gals ...aka people ....
On Oct 17, 2011 3:37 PM, "Justin Bozonier" <darkx...@gmail.com> wrote:
Adron Hall
Oct 17, 2011, 8:45:12 PM10/17/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
What Justin said.
Also - just an aside, I think the ALT.NET name actually adds a bit of confusion these days. The thing is, ALT.NET for MS tech stacks generally pulls together people that want more than just the one way to do things and one tech stack and want to discover... AKA the alpha nerds of the alpha nerds that are passionate and love what they do... that part is good. The part that I think is bad, is that ALT.NET plays too much into "are we really on the MS stack, or are we people moving off of the MS stack, or are we..."
simply - fuck all of that stuff. We're technology people, we learn and use whatever technologies. I think we shouldn't worry so much about the name ALT.NET or worry about what it is, what it means, etc... we should just be what and who we are within the group. Contribute and let it go the path it goes.
With that said... I do think the title/name of ALT.NET causes an unnecessary and often non-constructive distraction. As Justin mentioned, we should push forward with our projects, put them forward, meet about those, etc... a perfect example is Ruby/Rails and Cafe Racer. Every monday we meet and hack Ruby + Rails bits at Cafe Racer. Sure it is technology specific, but it's just a place to pick projects and contribute, start, or otherwise get involved. The same happens at multiple other meetups around town.
With that said, who's interested in actually putting together a more frequent BDD hacking sessions, or build some project sessions, or what not. I do think, based on other groups, that this could be pretty huge. If it is ALT.NETty or .NETty or whatever, we just have to put forth our projects, pick em', and hack em'.
Anyway, my topic/point/reiteration coinciding with Justin's might have become redundant at this point. But I think I've made my point. :) Let's find projects and get working on new ideas, implementations, etc, in whatever we're using. At least, that's what I'm preaching and what I'm trying to practice every day.
...back to my 3 day vacation of hacking. Cheers!
-Adron
--
Adron B Hall
Transit: http://transitsleuth.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/adron
Adron B Hall
Tech: http://compositecode.com
Transit: http://transitsleuth.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/adron
Ian Davis
Oct 18, 2011, 12:39:52 AM10/18/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
I agree that ALT.NET is a misnomer and forgive me, but I think something that we talked about at ALT.NET Seattle this year more accurately describes what we are hoping to accomplish in our interactions: Get Shit Done Well (GSDW). Everything that we do appears to be in pursuit of that goal. It doesn't matter what stack or paradigm we are using as long as we do it well, better ourselves, and enjoy it. The group may have been borne of the ALT.NET movement, but it has grown to be much more than its progenitor.
To paraphrase Justin, "pay it forward", "pay OSS forward", it doesn't matter what we receive, but rather what we give. If you find yourself making excuses about how you don't have any time, you're full of shit. The only time we have is the time we make. All of our interactions are based on making time for ourselves and for each other.
As we develop in our careers, the need to be a polyglot programmer increases. We may specialize, but not expanding our knowledge of languages limits our ability to think. By learning more ways to express ourselves, we can start to deal with cognitive dissonance; lest we only be able to express ourselves as if through Newspeak.
If you see the group as dead, maybe you should take a look off of the list. The guys before me on this list have mentioned a few things, but there is more.
- FSharpx
- Giles
- Chewie
- Frank
- Frack
- DreamNJasmine
- Dahlia
There are even more, but the question is, have you made the time to take a look?
I can't wait until I can visit the Seattle area again; if you ever come to Spokane, let me know and I'll hack with you.
Regards,
Justin Bozonier
Oct 18, 2011, 12:52:54 AM10/18/11
to Seattle area Alt.Net
Location is an excuse! ;D
Post a time you're available to do some remote hacking and I'm there.
Join.me and Skype baby!
On Oct 18, 12:39 am, Ian Davis <ian.f.da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree that ALT.NET is a misnomer and forgive me, but I think something
> that we talked about at ALT.NET Seattle this year more accurately describes
> what we are hoping to accomplish in our interactions: Get Shit Done Well
> (GSDW). Everything that we do appears to be in pursuit of that goal. It
> doesn't matter what stack or paradigm we are using as long as we do it well,
> better ourselves, and enjoy it. The group may have been borne of the
> ALT.NETmovement, but it has grown to be much more than its progenitor.
> - Giles
> - Chewie
> - Frank
> - Frack
> - DreamNJasmine
> - Dahlia
> >> If you can't think of anything to share, *make something worth sharing*and then
> >> *share it*. Be the change you hope to see.
>
> >> -Justin
> >>> bm2y...@gmail.com
> >>> @bm2yogi <http://twitter.com/bm2yogi>
>
> > *Tech*:http://compositecode.com
> > *Transit*: http://transitsleuth.com
> > *Twitter*:http://www.twitter.com/adron
Post a time you're available to do some remote hacking and I'm there.
Join.me and Skype baby!
On Oct 18, 12:39 am, Ian Davis <ian.f.da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree that ALT.NET is a misnomer and forgive me, but I think something
> that we talked about at ALT.NET Seattle this year more accurately describes
> what we are hoping to accomplish in our interactions: Get Shit Done Well
> (GSDW). Everything that we do appears to be in pursuit of that goal. It
> doesn't matter what stack or paradigm we are using as long as we do it well,
> better ourselves, and enjoy it. The group may have been borne of the
>
> To paraphrase Justin, "pay it forward", "pay OSS forward", it doesn't matter
> what we receive, but rather what we give. If you find yourself making
> excuses about how you don't have any time, you're full of shit. The only
> time we have is the time we make. All of our interactions are based on
> making time for ourselves and for each other.
>
> As we develop in our careers, the need to be a polyglot programmer
> increases. We may specialize, but not expanding our knowledge of languages
> limits our ability to think. By learning more ways to express ourselves, we
> can start to deal with cognitive dissonance; lest we only be able to express
> ourselves as if through Newspeak.
>
> If you see the group as dead, maybe you should take a look off of the list.
> The guys before me on this list have mentioned a few things, but there is
> more.
>
> - FSharpx
> To paraphrase Justin, "pay it forward", "pay OSS forward", it doesn't matter
> what we receive, but rather what we give. If you find yourself making
> excuses about how you don't have any time, you're full of shit. The only
> time we have is the time we make. All of our interactions are based on
> making time for ourselves and for each other.
>
> As we develop in our careers, the need to be a polyglot programmer
> increases. We may specialize, but not expanding our knowledge of languages
> limits our ability to think. By learning more ways to express ourselves, we
> can start to deal with cognitive dissonance; lest we only be able to express
> ourselves as if through Newspeak.
>
> If you see the group as dead, maybe you should take a look off of the list.
> The guys before me on this list have mentioned a few things, but there is
> more.
>
> - Giles
> - Chewie
> - Frank
> - Frack
> - DreamNJasmine
> - Dahlia
> >> *share it*. Be the change you hope to see.
>
> >> -Justin
>
> >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Michael Ibarra <bm2y...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> Not trolling for emotional responses here, but I've been wondering for
> >>> several months now and I have to ask...
>
> >>> Is Seattle Alt.NET dead?
>
> >>> It seems as though the monthly meetings are rarely attended. The google
> >>> group discussions don't seem to have the vibrant, engaging conversations
> >>> they used to, and it seems that most of the activity takes place in the
> >>> twittverse (not a totally bad thing, IMHO).
>
> >>> In addition most of the interest from those active in the group is more
> >>> Alt than .NET (also not a bad thing, IMHO).
>
> >>> Now, having blurted out these possibly myopic observations, does anyone
> >>> else see things similarly?
>
> >>> Is it time to "persevere or pivot?"
>
> >>> Should we move away from the Open Spaces monthly format and more towards
> >>> an agenda driven format with topics and presenters on topics?
> >>> Should we focus not just .NET but LAMP stack?
> >>> Or should we just hold a wake?
>
> >>> Mike
> >>> --
> >>> ********************************
> >>> *Michael Ibarra*
> >> On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Michael Ibarra <bm2y...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> Not trolling for emotional responses here, but I've been wondering for
> >>> several months now and I have to ask...
>
> >>> Is Seattle Alt.NET dead?
>
> >>> It seems as though the monthly meetings are rarely attended. The google
> >>> group discussions don't seem to have the vibrant, engaging conversations
> >>> they used to, and it seems that most of the activity takes place in the
> >>> twittverse (not a totally bad thing, IMHO).
>
> >>> In addition most of the interest from those active in the group is more
> >>> Alt than .NET (also not a bad thing, IMHO).
>
> >>> Now, having blurted out these possibly myopic observations, does anyone
> >>> else see things similarly?
>
> >>> Is it time to "persevere or pivot?"
>
> >>> Should we move away from the Open Spaces monthly format and more towards
> >>> an agenda driven format with topics and presenters on topics?
> >>> Should we focus not just .NET but LAMP stack?
> >>> Or should we just hold a wake?
>
> >>> Mike
> >>> --
> >>> ********************************
> >>> bm2y...@gmail.com
> >>> @bm2yogi <http://twitter.com/bm2yogi>
> >>>http://dev.bm2yogi.com
>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >>> "Seattle area Alt.Net" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to altnet...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> altnetseattl...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en.
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Seattle area Alt.Net" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to altnet...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> altnetseattl...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > *Adron B Hall*
>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >>> "Seattle area Alt.Net" group.
> >>> To post to this group, send email to altnet...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> altnetseattl...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en.
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Seattle area Alt.Net" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to altnet...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> altnetseattl...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en.
>
> > --
>
> > *Tech*:http://compositecode.com
> > *Transit*: http://transitsleuth.com
> > *Twitter*:http://www.twitter.com/adron
Ian Davis
Oct 18, 2011, 1:07:41 AM10/18/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
Got me. I'm down. We'll set up a time.
Adron Hall
Oct 18, 2011, 1:07:46 AM10/18/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
ARgh! Seriously, I gotta do more remote hacking!!! I actually tried it out a few days ago... it was, strangely, much cooler than I ever remember it. It was however, the first time I've really used Skype to do it.
-Adron
Michael Ibarra
Oct 18, 2011, 1:10:37 AM10/18/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
I don't disagree with any of the points made here, and I love that the discussion has broadened as it has. I'll throw my 2 cents worth:
It seems clear to me that Alt.NET Seattle (the group) has evolved beyond Alt.NET (the movement), and I agree that the name is now a misnomer.
I am much more interested in exchanging ideas and knowledge with other developers than I do about the Alt.NET game.
In my opinion Seattle Alt.NET _is_ dead, but it's given birth to something newer and better. What we do with it from here is up to us.
Mike
Kelly Sommers
Oct 18, 2011, 7:58:48 AM10/18/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com, altnet...@googlegroups.com
I know I'm not from the Seattle area but I joined this list for some awesome discussions and if there is a possibility to join in your wicked hackery remotely I would jump at the opportunity to learn.
I've been trying to do more remote pairing since recently I had a great experience pairing with Glenn a few months ago so I'm on a mission to find more opportunities to do so.
If you'll welcome an outsider I'd love to join in :)
Later,
Kell
Ryan Riley
Oct 28, 2011, 8:18:28 PM10/28/11
to altnet...@googlegroups.com
Remote is about all I can manage since I'm up in B'ham.
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