Hype (was Re: The Fundamentalists Disappearing Up Their Own Fundament)

[Tang Huyen]

On 7/12/2016 12:44 AM, Love wrote:

> By allowing you the freedom to become more wealthy in the first place,
> if you are willing to work hard and really believe in following your
> dreams...
>
> Libertarian thinking owes a lot to Disney, whether either would
> acknowledge it or not.

Some months ago, Wilson reproduced DDJ 57,
part of which is:

<<If you want to be a great leader,
you must learn to follow the Tao.
Stop trying to control.
Let go of fixed plans and concepts,
and the world will govern itself.>>

<http://www.geekfarm.org/cgi-bin/tao.pl?chapter=57&translation=mitchell>

Daoism is torn between two directions,
teaching the rulers to rule in a
libertarian, laissez-faire manner, which
is its exoteric side, and doing away with
doing, which is its esoteric side. There
should be plenty of cross-fertilisation,
but the tension is not easy to release.

Daoism imagines the common folk to be
naturally honest, which is Disneyesque,
iow, utopian (American English:
polyannaish). The fact that Daoism
throughout its life in China has never
risen above a boutique religion shows
that it is not easy for the hoi polloi
to "get" it, even less to follow it.
Refined gentlemen (and gentlewomen) can
once in a blue moon "get" it, which
basically means that they live their
dream. The paradox is that such
privileged people are not of the type
"willing to work hard and really believe
in following their dreams..." Rather,
they are of the type to be standoffish
and reclusive, and not to stoop to the
masses. Yin ju 隱居 "to live in hiding"
is a famous motif/motive, starting with
the Old One (Lao-zi) himself. The Way
(Dao) is supposed to be elusive, and the
sage himself is, too, regardless of the
official hype.

Tang Huyen

[Wilson]

I can't speak for Taoism, but classical liberal philosophy does not
necessarily imagine "the common folk to be naturally honest". Rather,
it says that the best good for the greatest number can be achieved most
effortlessly (efficiently) by allowing people to do as they will, as
long as they are not directly harming others. The idea is that ruling
by force is not the most effective way.

You've heard the expression, "like a bull in a china shop"? You might
also have seen signs in places that sell fragile items, "you break it
you bought it". Some people are like bulls.

Understanding that we as human beings are necessarily limited in our
perceptions and don't know the ultimate end of all actions, is letting
the chips (karma) fall where they must. This is a useful way to engage
with the world.

[liaM]

Well, yeah. Just give a bunch of the guys guns...

[{:-])))]

>You've heard the expression, "like a bull in a china shop"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unXVAfbA_xs

A mythbusters video.

- fwiw

[noname]

Wilson <absfg_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 7/12/2016 11:53 PM, Tang Huyen wrote:
>> On 7/12/2016 12:44 AM, Love wrote:
>>
>>> By allowing you the freedom to become more wealthy in the first place,
>>> if you are willing to work hard and really believe in following your
>>> dreams...
>>>
>>> Libertarian thinking owes a lot to Disney, whether either would
>>> acknowledge it or not.
>>
>> Some months ago, Wilson reproduced DDJ 57,
>> part of which is:
>>
>> <<If you want to be a great leader,
>> you must learn to follow the Tao.
>> Stop trying to control.
>> Let go of fixed plans and concepts,
>> and the world will govern itself.>>
>>
>> <http://www.geekfarm.org/cgi-bin/tao.pl?chapter=57&translation=mitchell>
>>
>> Daoism is torn between two directions,
>> teaching the rulers to rule in a
>> libertarian, laissez-faire manner, which
>> is its exoteric side, and doing away with
>> doing, which is its esoteric side.

When your thinking is limited to the exoteric side you are limited to
philosophical-materialism, the view that the exoteric side, the mundane,
physical, reality of the universe is all that exists.

When your thinking is limited to the esoteric side you have to sit on your
ass and need a zafu to prevent hemorrhoids while you try to figure out how
the esoteric side can possibly be what "they" say it is and what "we" know
it to be, at the same time. Esoteric practices like Zen are invented to
help snap the mind awake but they are not adequately productive and
efficient to allow the boddhisatva vow to become fulfilled.

Those on the exoteric side think that esoterics are sillyheart dreamers who
want to sit on their asses on pillows instead of supporting the advancement
of the scientific, exoteric side.

Those on the esoteric side think that materialists are greedy power-hungry
bastards, and yeah, they may be right.

Those who "awaken" to the esoteric meaning ancestors tried to hand down can
see, through the more-general methods of abstraction that some "esoteric"
gurus have called the "third eye", that it is the esoteric side of things,
the abstract, the general-to-specific, "engineering" of form from abstract
ideas about something into the actuality of the physical object, the
abstract is the realm above, the gold of heaven (heaven being the realm
above, the prior realm) falls to Earth like water, but the single common
sound within the voice of their flow is the same, as above so below.

Fuckever that means. Does it mean anything at all?

>> There
>> should be plenty of cross-fertilisation,
>> but the tension is not easy to release.

Tension always releases itself when it feels trapped.
The trick of the sage is to hold the tension and change little.
Some bodybuilders call that isotonic, tension in motion.
The work becomes done without doing when the world does it.
Leverage makes the work easier.
Maybe that's why Taoism is considered by some to be the lazy way.

Maybe you can't speak for Taoism, but you seem to have done okay by it, and
vice-versa.

I can speak for me, fwiw. The common people are tools. They have been
programmed by those whose ancestors knew virtue but could not pass it to
their children. Only the programmed actions stuck, not the understanding
their lineage could not give them. Until they learn what was once known,
they'll just keep on keeping on. They're tools in the other sense too, for
letting themselves be used.

When mankind awakens to understand the drunken stupor it has lived in,
we're gonna party.

--
email: noname.123...@gmail.com
chat: http://www.chatzy.com/73848856455529

[noname]

Dunno, the guys around here already have guns, and that doesn't seem to
have affected the tourist industry.
The gunshops are making good money, it's a free market, they tell me.
Like I told a cop buddy a week or so ago, I don't need a gun.
If it's necessary to kill something I'll just have at it.
WTF would I know, I walk around ants.

[djinn]

"noname" wrote in message news:nm84su$4et$1...@dont-email.me...

---------------------------------------------------------

if mankind awakens the great masquerade dissolves
and all the disguises come off and it's all over with

[Tang Huyen]

On 7/14/2016 7:40 AM, djinn wrote:

> if mankind awakens the great masquerade dissolves
> and all the disguises come off and it's all over with

Would this be the entropy that you often mention?

By the way, you use the sexist term "mankind". You
previously used the feminist terms "girlcott" and
"herstory". Are you getting forgetful in your old
age?

Tang Huyen

[djinn]

"Tang Huyen" wrote in message
news:a2064353-1e00-631b...@gmail.com...

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

would you prefer *humankind*?

a mass awakening cannot happen in this
age anyway. we've got a long way to go yet.

[liaM]

On 7/14/2016 3:42 PM, noname wrote:
>> > Well, yeah. Just give a bunch of the guys guns...
>> >
> Dunno, the guys around here already have guns, and that doesn't seem to
> have affected the tourist industry.
> The gunshops are making good money, it's a free market, they tell me.
> Like I told a cop buddy a week or so ago, I don't need a gun.
> If it's necessary to kill something I'll just have at it.
> WTF would I know, I walk around ants.

:)

[pi]

It means, to me, that abstract thinking is the third eye.

pi

[Wilson]

On 7/14/2016 11:44 AM, djinn wrote:
>
> a mass awakening cannot happen in this
> age anyway. we've got a long way to go yet.

A "mass awakening" is just a lot of little individual awakenings.

[djinn]

"Wilson" wrote in message news:nm8ous$j4e$1...@dont-email.me...

according to hindu mythology we are still
in a very dark age, or yuga, as they are called,
and depending on who you read it may be
several thousand years before there are
even a lot of little individual awakenings.

[Wilson]

According to some Hindu mythology, we've been through the golden age,
descended into the silver and then the bronze age to the iron age, where
we are now. This is an age where force and power are valued above
higher awareness, love and understanding. They say that we will cycle
through minor ages within the Kali Yuga but won't ever swing all the way
back to a true new golden age until after this universe ends and is
destroyed completely.

So according to that, the idea of mass human advancement over the long
haul is illusory.

[djinn]

"Wilson" wrote in message news:nm90af$f3v$1...@dont-email.me...

```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

from wiki;

Brahma's day is divided in one thousand cycles (Maha Yuga, or the Great
Year). Maha Yuga, during which life and the human race appear and then
disappear, has 71 divisions, each made of 14 Manvantara (1000) years. Each
Maha Yuga lasts for 4,320,000 years. Manvantara is Manu's cycle, the one who
gives birth and governs the human race. before & after each manvantara
there's a sandhikal as long as krutyuga & in that time there is all water on
earth. Each Maha Yuga consists of a series of four shorter yugas, or ages.
The yugas get progressively worse from a moral point of view as one proceeds
from one yuga to another. As a result, each yuga is of shorter duration than
the age that preceded it. The current Kali Yuga (Iron Age) began at midnight
17 February / 18 February in 3102 BC in the proleptic Julian calendar (Year
6898 of the Holocene Era.) kalpa=ahoratra of brahma. Space and time are
considered to be maya (illusion). What looks like 100 years in the cosmos of
Brahma could be thousands of years in other worlds, millions of years in
some other worlds and 311 trillion and 40 billion years for our solar system
and earth. The life span of Lord Brahma, the creator, is 100 'Brahma-Years'.
One day in the life of Brahma is called a Kalpa or 4.32 billion years.[5][6]
Every Kalpa creates 14 Manus one after the other, who in turn manifest and
regulate this world. Thus, there are fourteen generations of Manu in each
Kalpa. Each Manu's life (Manvantara) consists of 71 Chaturyugas (quartets of
Yugas or eras).[7] Each Chaturyuga is composed of four eras or Yugas: Satya,
Treta, Dwapara and Kali.[7] If we add all manvantaras (4320000x71x14), as
long as 6 chaturyuga will be missing because sandhikaal after and before
each manvantara (so 15 sandhikaal).

The span of the Satya Yuga is 1,728,000 human years, Treta Yuga is 1,296,000
human years long, the Dwapara Yuga 864,000 human years and the Kali Yuga
432,000 human years.[8] When Manu perishes at the end of his life, Brahma
creates the next Manu and the cycle continues until all fourteen Manus and
the Universe perish by the end of Brahma's day. When 'night' falls, Brahma
goes to sleep for a period of 4.32 billion years, which is a period of time
equal one day (of Brahma) and the lives of fourteen Manus. The next
'morning', Brahma creates fourteen additional Manus in sequence just as he
has done on the previous 'day'. The cycle goes on for 100 'divine years' at
the end of which Brahma perishes and is regenerated. Brahma's entire life
equals 311 trillion, 40 billion years. Thus a second of Brahmā is 98,630
years. Once Brahma dies there is an equal period of unmanifestation for 311
trillion, 40 billion years, until the next Brahma is created. During one
life of Brahma there are 504 000 Manus (Vedic "Adams") are changing, there
are 5040 Manus are changing during one year of Brahma, and 420 Manus
manifest during one month of Brahmā. (See: List of numbers in Hindu
scriptures for more such numeric details).

The present period is the Kali Yuga or last era in one of the 71 Chaturyugis
(set of four Yugas/eras) in the life one of the fourteen Manus. The current
Manu is said to be the seventh Manu and his name is Vaivasvata.[9]

According to Aryabhata, the Kali Yuga began in 3102 BC, at the end of the
Dvapara Yuga that was marked by the disappearance of Krishna Aryabhata's
date is widely repeated in modern Hinduism.

The beginning of the new Yuga (era) is known as "Yugadi/Ugadi", and is
celebrated every year on the first day (Paadyami) of the first month
(Chaitramu) of the 12-month annual cycle. But this is a disambiguation for
beginning of new year in lunisolar calendar followed by most Hindus. The
Ugadi of 1999 begins the year 1921 of the Shalivahana era (5101 Kali Yuga,
1999 AD). The end of the Kali Yuga is 426,899 years from 1921.[10]


so accordingly, many cycles of yugas pass before the universe gets destroyed
and there are many golden ages that pass between the creation and
destruction
of the universe.

[Tang Huyen]

On 7/14/2016 4:42 PM, djinn wrote:

> so accordingly, many cycles of yugas pass before
> the universe gets destroyed and there are many golden
> ages that pass between the creation and destruction
> of the universe.

Only Brahma playing with himself alone,
so why bother?

Tang Huyen

[pi]

Brahma fondling himself gently. Fuck, now I know why porn is so popular.
We were made in His image.

pi

[Tang Huyen]

On 7/14/2016 5:00 PM, pi wrote:

> On 2016-07-15 01:57, Tang Huyen wrote:

>> On 7/14/2016 4:42 PM, djinn wrote:

>>> so accordingly, many cycles of yugas pass before
>>> the universe gets destroyed and there are many golden
>>> ages that pass between the creation and destruction
>>> of the universe.

>> Only Brahma playing with himself alone,
>> so why bother?

> Brahma fondling himself gently. Fuck, now I know why
> porn is so popular. We were made in His image.

I try to write in an incendiary manner, intentionally
to kick people's imagination into high gear, and am
pleasantly surprised sometimes at the chain reactions.

The more the merrier ...

Tang Huyen

[djinn]

"Tang Huyen" wrote in message

news:32fafd27-d095-ce29...@gmail.com...

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
if these types of speculations are indeed so,
it is my fervent belief that no human intellect
could fathom the activities of such during the
day of brahma.

[Tang Huyen]

On 7/14/2016 5:16 PM, djinn wrote:

> "Tang Huyen"

>> djinn:

>>> so accordingly, many cycles of yugas pass before
>>> the universe gets destroyed and there are many golden
>>> ages that pass between the creation and destruction
>>> of the universe.

>> Only Brahma playing with himself alone,
>> so why bother?

> if these types of speculations are indeed so,
> it is my fervent belief that no human intellect
> could fathom the activities of such during the
> day of brahma.

Seneca: "it [the life of the Stoic sage] will be like
that of Jupiter, who, when the world has been dissolved,
the gods have been indistinguishably reunited, and
nature [sc. the craftsmanlike fire in its informing
capacity] is inactive for a while, finds a resting-place
within himself, given over to his own thought."

In the Stoic theory of world cycles, Jupiter (God)
evolves the world out of himself, and burns it up
to consume it back to himself. In the resting phase,
there is only God, who is "inactive for a while, finds
a resting-place within himself, given over to his own
thought." No human intellect could fathom the activities
of such during the day of God, specially when he is
withdrawn in himself in inactivity (non-doing?).

By the way, all the above pertains directly to mental
culture: detachment and equability in front of what
happens, no matter what.

Tang Huyen

[pi]

You said something poetic. I added something erotic. And now it's time
for J to say something idiotic :)

Thanks! :)

pi

[pi]

but you don't *really* know. luckily.

pi

[pi]

No matter what. Yes. That's how you get there.

Tang you're no longer an inch from enlightenment. You are there.

Great to know! :)

pi

P.S. I'm a parsec away from it buy I am still ahead of J who is a parsec
of parsecs away :)

[Kitty P]

"pi" wrote in message news:nm8k31$rec$1...@dont-email.me...

Interesting idea. Abstract thinking is terrifying to many people. Abstract
thinking is anathema to black and white thinking that some people seem to
need to feel safe in the world- which is deserving of compassionate
understanding if one cares to offer it to others. To understand that
opposing views can be true at the same time is beyond comprehension for
some. A personal experience, and MRI imaging confirms, if I do daily
meditation or mindfulness in general, it rests the brain and all the mental
farts and general turmoil for a time. My humble opinion is that eventually
over time what happens in the brain opens a different consciousness because
it isn't busy with bullshit all the time, that opening includes abstract
thought, creativity, and quelling ego individuality with a pretty firm
understanding that if we really think we're right about something, even
this, we probably aren't.

Kitty

[Tang Huyen]

On 7/15/2016 7:56 AM, Kitty P wrote:

> Interesting idea. Abstract thinking is terrifying to many people.
> Abstract thinking is anathema to black and white thinking that some
> people seem to need to feel safe in the world- which is deserving of
> compassionate understanding if one cares to offer it to others. To
> understand that opposing views can be true at the same time is beyond
> comprehension for some. A personal experience, and MRI imaging
> confirms, if I do daily meditation or mindfulness in general, it rests
> the brain and all the mental farts and general turmoil for a time. My
> humble opinion is that eventually over time what happens in the brain
> opens a different consciousness because it isn't busy with bullshit all
> the time, that opening includes abstract thought, creativity, and
> quelling ego individuality with a pretty firm understanding that if we
> really think we're right about something, even this, we probably aren't.

<<quelling ego individuality with a pretty firm
understanding that if we really think we're right
about something, even this, we probably aren't.>>

Whatever quibble and reserve one may have

[Tang Huyen]

Whatever quibble and reserve one may have in front
of the Buddha's teaching, he does say something
radically sceptic: "What and what they think it,
it is otherwise." Like the eel-wrigglers who pass
for Eastern Masters, he laughs at himself even as
he puts up air about being serious. He may claim
that his teaching is shorn of padding, but the
above proclamation renders him free of his whole
teaching, and in a way he precedes Obama in
preaching in a sly way: "Be the change that you
want." He thereby includes himself amongst the
eel-wrigglers who pass themselves for masters.

(Sorry, something went wrong, and the post went
out too early, above it has been fixed).

Tang Huyen

[{:-])))]

Kitty P wrote:
>>"pi" wrote:
> noname wrote:
>> Wilson wrote:

>>> Tang Huyen wrote:
>>>> Love wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> By allowing you the freedom to become more wealthy in the first place,
>>>>> if you are willing to work hard and really believe in following your
>>>>> dreams...
>>>>>
>>>>> Libertarian thinking owes a lot to Disney, whether either would
>>>>> acknowledge it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Some months ago, Wilson reproduced DDJ 57,
>>>> part of which is:
>>>>
>>>> <<If you want to be a great leader,
>>>> you must learn to follow the Tao.
>>>> Stop trying to control.
>>>> Let go of fixed plans and concepts,
>>>> and the world will govern itself.>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.geekfarm.org/cgi-bin/tao.pl?chapter=57&translation=mitchell>
>>>>
>>>> Daoism is torn between two directions,
>>>> teaching the rulers to rule in a
>>>> libertarian, laissez-faire manner, which
>>>> is its exoteric side, and doing away with
>>>> doing, which is its esoteric side.

When the curtain, or the veil, is torn in two,
those who did not have access, may have access.
At times it takes a great quake of the earth.
Figuratively speaking, super-naturally.

>> When your thinking is limited to the exoteric side you are limited to
>> philosophical-materialism, the view that the exoteric side, the mundane,
>> physical, reality of the universe is all that exists.
>>
>> When your thinking is limited to the esoteric side you have to sit on your
>> ass and need a zafu to prevent hemorrhoids while you try to figure out how
>> the esoteric side can possibly be what "they" say it is and what "we" know
>> it to be, at the same time. Esoteric practices like Zen are invented to
>> help snap the mind awake but they are not adequately productive and
>> efficient to allow the boddhisatva vow to become fulfilled.

No technique, method, teaching, doctrine, principle, source, dao,
or way, is able to work for all the people all the time. Hence
a phrase: Dao ke dao fei chang dao, poetically, speaks.

>> Those on the exoteric side think that esoterics are sillyheart dreamers
>> who
>> want to sit on their asses on pillows instead of supporting the
>> advancement
>> of the scientific, exoteric side.
>>
>> Those on the esoteric side think that materialists are greedy power-hungry
>> bastards, and yeah, they may be right.

Elements of truth are what conspiracy theories are woven of.
There are devils, hidden, lurking, in the details.

>> Those who "awaken" to the esoteric meaning ancestors tried to hand down
>> can
>> see, through the more-general methods of abstraction that some "esoteric"
>> gurus have called the "third eye", that it is the esoteric side of things,
>> the abstract, the general-to-specific, "engineering" of form from abstract
>> ideas about something into the actuality of the physical object, the
>> abstract is the realm above, the gold of heaven (heaven being the realm
>> above, the prior realm) falls to Earth like water, but the single common
>> sound within the voice of their flow is the same, as above so below.
>>
>> Fuckever that means. Does it mean anything at all?

Crystal as clear is able to resonate.

>>>It means, to me, that abstract thinking is the third eye.
>
>>>pi
>
>Interesting idea. Abstract thinking is terrifying to many people. Abstract
>thinking is anathema to black and white thinking that some people seem to
>need to feel safe in the world- which is deserving of compassionate
>understanding if one cares to offer it to others. To understand that
>opposing views can be true at the same time is beyond comprehension for
>some.

All too often. Naturally.
For what would reality be, game-play-wise, without two?
If the natural did not exist, the unnatural would not emerge.
If people did not have hands, there would be no artificial.

> A personal experience, and MRI imaging confirms, if I do daily
>meditation or mindfulness in general, it rests the brain and all the mental
>farts and general turmoil for a time.

In the now, a present unfolds.

> My humble opinion is that eventually
>over time what happens in the brain opens a different consciousness because
>it isn't busy with bullshit all the time, that opening includes abstract
>thought, creativity, and quelling ego individuality with a pretty firm
>understanding that if we really think we're right about something, even
>this, we probably aren't.

At least, not accordion-playing to the other,
regular guy, or gal, in the towers, at the curb,
in the peanut gallery, and utter most places.

>Kitty

- cheers!

[liaM]

Intuition is my "third" eye. Alas with age I find it could stand
a visit to my local occultist for third eye glasses, it sees things
so dimly sometimes..

But in the heyday of my full Faculties, intuition was their
Empress,. She was the Empress over an empire shared in common with a
thousand equally happy subjects who, like me, could see for miles and
miles - just as in the song by "The Who".

What is it about Intuition that makes it the tool of seers, poets,
musicians, and the preferred tool of scientists, mathematicians,
chess-players ??

If Pi asks and I have time, I'll expand on this post of mine,
as relates to Intuition's happy union with Reason and Imagination.
Alas, Time flies. Damn Flies keep on hounding me. RAID them out
of my house please !

[{:-])))]

The witness consciousness is excused.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venire_facias

- at the inn a trial, by fire, one is pure, and fried

[{:-])))]

Eight miles. Too old. Two be. For gotten.
The Byrds fly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoSwOrytf_M

>What is it about Intuition that makes it the tool of seers, poets,
>musicians, and the preferred tool of scientists, mathematicians,
>chess-players ??

Reality. On an abstract level of levels.
The bubble floats in the middle.

>If Pi asks and I have time, I'll expand on this post of mine,
>as relates to Intuition's happy union with Reason and Imagination.
>Alas, Time flies. Damn Flies keep on hounding me. RAID them out
>of my house please !

One does as one may dew.
One condenses. One contracts.
One expands. Out and in. A journey.
A trip. Boot-staps and shoe-laces.

- variations on a theme

[pi]

You can learn abstract thinking just like you can learn driving a car.

But you can suck at abstract thinking just like you can suck at driving
a car.

pi

A mathematician (topologist) is a man who cannot tell his mug from his
doughnut. -- A saying

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NlqYr6-TpA

[pi]

Intuition is merely subconscious knowledge and reasoning.

pi

[Wilson]

"Merely".

[pi]

Yup.

pi

[liaM]

Yes. Subconscious, it is. Occult yet it is extremely serviceable. Give
it a problem, it operates in the background until a result is produced,
often incomplete and unproven. Reason then takes over, works out the
details, checks the logic, etc.

How many chess games have I won, where crucial moves were seen in an
abstract non-verbal nor graphic form. Or in checking software programs,
providing time saving short cuts. Or having to come up with an
equation, either to prove an intuition, or to solve it. Or when
"seeing" a musical composition as if a landscape illuminated by a
lightning flash (not me, but Mozart, as described in a letter.)

[noname]

djinn <meanmr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Tang Huyen" wrote in message

> news:a2064353-1e00-631b...@gmail.com...
>
> On 7/14/2016 7:40 AM, djinn wrote:
>
>> if mankind awakens the great masquerade dissolves
>> and all the disguises come off and it's all over with
>
> Would this be the entropy that you often mention?
>
> By the way, you use the sexist term "mankind". You
> previously used the feminist terms "girlcott" and
> "herstory". Are you getting forgetful in your old
> age?
>
> Tang Huyen
>
> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
>
> would you prefer *humankind*?

>
> a mass awakening cannot happen in this
> age anyway. we've got a long way to go yet.
>
>
>
>

We'll see. I'm expecting the great masquerade to be unmasked later this
year, around election time, when Nobby Nobbs and his ilk have their nose
rubbed in the fact that they've been had for so long by so many and thought
they were going to get something other than more of the same.

--
email: noname.123...@gmail.com
chat: http://www.chatzy.com/73848856455529

[noname]

You didn't previously recognize abstract thinking as the essential element
of intelligence? Oh, my; well, at least you get that now, you need only
determine its truth value.

[{:-])))]

liaM responed to:

>
>> Intuition is merely subconscious knowledge and reasoning.
>>
>> pi
>
>
>Yes. Subconscious, it is. Occult yet it is extremely serviceable. Give
>it a problem, it operates in the background until a result is produced,
>often incomplete and unproven. Reason then takes over, works out the
>details, checks the logic, etc.
>
>How many chess games have I won, where crucial moves were seen in an
>abstract non-verbal nor graphic form. Or in checking software programs,
>providing time saving short cuts. Or having to come up with an
>equation, either to prove an intuition, or to solve it. Or when
>"seeing" a musical composition as if a landscape illuminated by a
>lightning flash (not me, but Mozart, as described in a letter.)

One man's profound understanding is mundane to another.
What is sacred to some is rubbish to another.
Trash can be treasure.

- swine option available

[pi]

Most people can walk. But if walking were as easy as it looks, engineers
wouldn't find it so hard to get Asimo to walk well.

http://world.honda.com/ASIMO/history/image/bnr/bnrL_history.jpg

By the same token, we all think abstractly and this is the essential
component of intelligence as we know it. But if it were all that easy to
program it, AI would rule the world right now.

pi

[pi]

Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

pi

[liaM]

eheh

[pi]

You were expecting I'd give you some very elaborate and profoundly
sounding bullshit as an answer?

Here you go:

http://www.idt.mdh.se/~icc/principia.gif

This is page 362 of Russell's Principia Mathematica written around 1910.
But *you* (liaM) don't need 362 of elaborate formal proofs to add 1 to
1, do you? You do it intuitively.

Well, Russell and Whitehead formalized your intuitions. They uncovered
them, showed they consists of very simple mechanical processes.

Their results lead to Eniac, nuclear energy, genomics, the Internet and
AI studies.

Surely, intuition is a great thing, but it is mechanizable. Everything
is. Except the Tao.

pi

Sufficiently complicated mechanical process is indistinguishable from
magic. If you're gullible, of course. -- Sam Guy

[liaM]

Except the Tao... LOL

"COME hither, my boy, tell me what thou seest there.
A fool tangled in a religious snare."

[pi]

On 2016-07-16 04:27, liaM wrote:

>> Their results lead to Eniac, nuclear energy, genomics, the Internet and
>> AI studies.
>>
>> Surely, intuition is a great thing, but it is mechanizable. Everything
>> is. Except the Tao.
>>
>> pi
>>
>> Sufficiently complicated mechanical process is indistinguishable from
>> magic. If you're gullible, of course. -- Sam Guy
>
>
> Except the Tao... LOL
>
> "COME hither, my boy, tell me what thou seest there.
> A fool tangled in a religious snare."

As far as I am concerned, we're all fools tangled in cultural snare of
which religion is only one kind. If you're glued to your TV most of the
day, you are, to a degree, a devout religious consumerist.

And enlightenment is seeing beyond all that. No that I have a clue, really.

pi

I believe that what we become depends on what our fathers teach us at
odd moments, when they aren't trying to teach us. We are formed by
little scraps of wisdom. -- Umberto Eco, Foucault's Pendulum

[{:-])))]

Being able to see all the notes, one may note, see how
all those notes are able to be mechanized.

That does not a Mozart make.
Beethovan was deaf and could still compose music.

Between being able to see notes, and sight-read,
and being able to compose music and write it down,
there might be at least three worlds of difference.

Does a computer have intuition?
Can a mechanical man grok the scene?
Is a mechanical man a man?

A white mechanical horse is a horse of course.
And no one can talk to a horse of course.

- an editor of sorts of sorts

[liaM]

- Tell that to our dear pi in the sky Tin Man :)

[pi]

Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking. -- Wizard of Oz

Tell that to J.

Thanks :)

pi

[{:-])))]

In my experience, recently, only noname can tell him
anything that he appears to respect at various levels.

To him, what is regular appears to me to be, not.

It used to be regular for some people to do, think, act
and be in ways that for many other people was not.

Women and children were property, naturally.
Just to begin to go down a Path, or a Route, or a Tao.

Tao of Taoism, imo, have their various Routes.

It's not a mechanistic paradigm.

- imo

[pi]

All you do is talk and delude yourself that it means something.

pi

http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

We grow, we reflect, we are reborn. Consciousness consists of
transmissions of quantum energy. “Quantum” means an ennobling of the
spiritual.

[Tang Huyen]

On 7/15/2016 7:27 PM, liaM wrote:

> Except the Tao... LOL
>
> "COME hither, my boy, tell me what thou seest there.
> A fool tangled in a religious snare."

You, liaM mon cher, seem to have the best of the
world. A Russian father, a Chinese mother, growing
up in Paris, getting a Harvard degree in cognitive
science, studying with Werner Erhard personally, etc.
People could be forgiven for drooling about your
credentials.

There is one department where you might be faulted,
however, which is intimately relevant to mental
culture, regardless of specifics. It is
self-awareness and self-criticality. You seem to
lack it severely. One example is with what you
wrote above.

<<"COME hither, my boy, tell me what thou seest
there. A fool tangled in a religious snare.">>

You seem, to me, not to apply such (otherwise
excellent) dictum to yourself. More specifically,
you seem unaware of the religious snare that Werner
Erhard throws on you, as you regularly stand in
thrall in front of him and his various avatars,
like the Landmark Forum, which you tried to sell
to pi (the above post of yours ridiculed pi dear).

So, liaM mon cher, tell me what thou seest in thee.

Tang Huyen

[liaM]

Tang Huyen = Fruitcake

[pi]

Harvard? Jena would be my choice :)

But you know, almost every book is online these days, if you can find
it. And you can contact whoever you want, if you can make them
interested. And there truly are a lot of people out there willing to
help you, if they find you ok enough.

So, really, you can learn anything online these days. It is just incredible.

You don't need to go to Harvard or even Jena. All you need to do is get
online, be cooperative and nice.

But, of course, you need more than two dollars a day to amount to
anything in the end :(

pi

[liaM]

I liked Princeton too, my last contact with that university was
bringing some pot seedlings with my mathematician friend Henry Mitchell
to plant among the hedges of the IAS in the spring of 1965, and spotting
Robert J. Oppenheimer standing inside the open french windows of his
office, silently watching our progress while smoking a pipe :)

Wow I've lived a charmed life. But like you, essentially I was an
autodidact, direct from my first studies of french literature when I was
a bewildered 10 year old immigrant to the USA, and becoming a library
rat inspired by the books I found at a small, modest, almost hidden
Theosophical Library in New York's West Side. What can I say to Tang?
Does being interested in the occult or in the teachings of gurus make
one a fool caught in a religious snare? And who is he to talk,
considering his infatuation with the negative theology of Mme. Guyon?

No, pi. My advice to you concerning the Landmark program was a desire
to guide you to a way to dominate the physical pain and mental anguish
you manifested. I tried, but it doesn't mean I belong to the church
of Landmark (which I know of only indirectly, as I do Werner Ehrhard's
teachings, having never met him personally)

As far as being a pampered product of prestigious universities, all I
can say in my defense is that one thing in life leads to another.
Academia did not end up affording me a living. I was more interested in
experiencing what the '60s had to offer in the way of liberation from
institutions (I lived in a commune) and making my own way to making a
living. I was very much a precursor to what nearly every young person
has ahead of him or herself these days : seeking to make a living from
what we like to do, and given robotisation = unemployment and the
omnipresence of the Internet, willfully choosing to be an autodidact.
I've known what it is to spend in self teaching myself topics 20 hours a
day, driven by a desire to make something happen and making a living
from the results. And that includes stints of studying buddhism in
many of its forms by myself thanks to the marvelous guides left us by
luminaries such as Trungpa Rinpoche and Shunryu Suzuki, and as luck will
have it, being present and attentive at teachings given by living
masters from whom I learned not to get a swell head or get overly
stressed out by day to day struggles.

I therefore concur 100% with your assessment of the Internet as the
means to become self-taught in nearly any field (even violin playing?
hmm... that might be hard!) - and also the means to connect with people,
even well known and very accomplished people - such as you have done,
exchanging emails with Marvin Minsky..

Now, I suggest it is Tang Huyen's turn to tell us a bit more about
himself than he has so far admitted to. For one, is what Chan Fu
affirms true, that his umbilical to the Vietnamese Catholic Church was
left unsevered by the nuns attending his birth? And why did he spend
so many years in mortal joust with a completely sane, lovely, and very
spiritual person, Evelyn R.? Tell us, Tang !

[{:-])))]

liaM wrote:
> Tang Huyen wrote:
>> liaM wrote:

>>> pi wrote:
>>>
>>> > Surely, intuition is a great thing, but it is mechanizable.
>>> > Everything is. Except the Tao.
>>>

>>> Except the Tao... LOL

Tao of mechanics. Consult the Chilton Manuals.

Tao of Zen, stand up, sit down, be, enlightened sides weigh.

Tao of Taoism, go ahead, put it in words.
See how far that goes and heads in what direction.

Some may say, in the far North, at the extreme point,
everything is down from there. And at the same time,
in the far South, at the extreme point, some may say
the same thing exactly. Magnetic poles flip.

To some minds, North is always up. That's their compass heading.
To some who, like a river in Africa, it all flows down to the North.

>>> "COME hither, my boy, tell me what thou seest there.
>>> A fool tangled in a religious snare."

To retie one's world together, first untie an adult world-view.
Then, return to a child-like state, even go so far as
that of an infant, for a spell.

From being in a state of wordless wonder
to opening and closing one's hand and fist
there might be three worlds of a difference.

>> You, liaM mon cher, seem to have the best of the
>> world. A Russian father, a Chinese mother, growing
>> up in Paris, getting a Harvard degree in cognitive
>> science, studying with Werner Erhard personally, etc.
>> People could be forgiven for drooling about your
>> credentials.
>>
>> There is one department where you might be faulted,
>> however, which is intimately relevant to mental
>> culture, regardless of specifics. It is
>> self-awareness and self-criticality. You seem to
>> lack it severely. One example is with what you
>> wrote above.
>>
>> <<"COME hither, my boy, tell me what thou seest
>> there. A fool tangled in a religious snare.">>
>>
>> You seem, to me, not to apply such (otherwise
>> excellent) dictum to yourself. More specifically,
>> you seem unaware of the religious snare that Werner
>> Erhard throws on you, as you regularly stand in
>> thrall in front of him and his various avatars,
>> like the Landmark Forum, which you tried to sell
>> to pi (the above post of yours ridiculed pi dear).
>>
>> So, liaM mon cher, tell me what thou seest in thee.
>>
>> Tang Huyen
>
>
>Tang Huyen = Fruitcake

I would have guessed: Tang, in the House of Mirrors.

The Tang I see in me is of a curious sort.
To take him seriously I might seriously doubt.

Tang might be seen as a parody of himself.

Dao of Tang.
Projectors and project ions vary.

- film, optional, at eleven

[pi]

Thank you very much for sharing, liaM :)

As far as education is concerned, again, the Internet is marvelous. It
is also marvelous socially. And in every other thinkable respect.

I did electronics at secondary school and I started fixing and trading
it in my final years there. Once I saved GBP400 at got a ticket to
London. I met my English friends, both teachers at primary and secondary
school, who became my cultural/intellectual parents. I was 18 at the
time met them and I visited them on 6 consecutive summers bringing
around GBP1500 home every time I went plus they taught me English. It
was mostly gardening and farm work, but I enjoyed it.

All that led me to study economics and I did something impossible, I got
to the best business school in Poland, one that produces most of
Poland's finance ministers and central bank executives. So I became
interested in banking, central banking, business and banking law and
then theory of law, philosophy, math and finally theology.

So I learned of mental culture, Goedel, the Buddha, Zz, Lz and
Confucius. And I merged that with formal theology and epistemology,
ethics and aesthetics with a bit of cybernetics and game theory and
cooperation (division of labour/love of thy neighbour as thyself)
through kindness (sharing fairly the fruits of collective efforts) came
out as the Law.

Basically, that's my path. Many kind people help me and please believe
me, I always try to help without being asked. And I've help a lot of
people in very many respects.

I read about Landmark and thought they simply commercialize and market
what is known by mental culture, philosophy, psychology and sociology
today. That's great, but I've already read most if it from the Buddha,
Zimbardo, Aronson, Gardner and Sapolsky.

And yet here I go, living on 2 dollars a day. Honestly.

About Tang, I first posted my rubbish posts to alt.something.something
and Tang was there and redirected me to alt.philosophy.zen where he send
me several landmark replies to my posts. I was in complete darkness at
the time and had no sense of direction and he gave me that.

Tang, thank you very much. I owe you more than one. Thank you :)

I think Tang has some great stories to tell about his life, but I never
dared ask him. He's a university professor? liaM, is he?

But I still need math to be complete. It will help me model everything
more precisely and find all the places where my thinking needs further
improvement.

Ok, lovely! Thank you! Please say more if you wish. I am most interested :)

I will be happy to say more myself :)

pi

[noname]

Stop entirely. Think.


What is the lesson you are being taught by the world (not-you) which has
been so difficult for you to learn that you upset yourself? What part of
you is obstructing the progress of the rest? Which is you?

[noname]

Sad sad, not the response one might wish for; perhaps the fruit will ripen
in the sun.

[pi]

On 2016-07-17 15:16, noname wrote:

> Stop entirely. Think.
>
>
> What is the lesson you are being taught by the world (not-you) which has
> been so difficult for you to learn that you upset yourself? What part of
> you is obstructing the progress of the rest? Which is you?

This is hard.

pi

[Kitty P]

"pi" wrote in message news:nmer75$8tr$1...@dont-email.me...

----------------------

I was told by a person I respect in here to not reveal too much about myself
because it was - well - the internet. But for me, authenticity from people,
whether about themselves, or their explorations of beliefs under their
cultural veneer- is like finding a jewel that got pried out of a crown. A
gift.

I lived a few years on 35 cents a day when I was young...which with
inflation, is pretty close to $2? I wasn't clever though, so was homeless.
How do you do it?

Kitty

[Tang Huyen]

On 7/16/2016 7:40 PM, pi wrote:

> I think Tang has some great stories to tell about his life, but I never
> dared ask him. He's a university professor? liaM, is he?

No, I am not, have never been. My highest degree
is a BA from UC Berkeley. I earned my living
in computer programming and PC support. A bunch
of professors and students at BU invented me as
a software programme which wrote in funny English.
In the past, some posters correctly called me the
Tangbot. (In contrast, the former poster Lee
Rudolph was a prof of math, is now retired).

Tang Huyen

[pi]

Basically, I survive on stuff that people throw away that is still good.
Like a whole bag of sandwiches a local shop puts next to a rubbish bin
every day at about 10 o'clock. I ask people for cigarettes or smoke the
buds that I can find. A few days ago I asked someone for a cigarette and
the man gave me 5 bucks. Another man gave me a whole KFC meal. Stuff
like that.

I also buy the cheapest things. 1 pound of frozen Tesco chips is 30
cents and that's 2 meals. The cheapest sausages are sometime like a
dollar a pound. I sometimes help a friend sell honey in the market and I
get a few jars for that.

The real problem is that the meds I take are quite stupefying. I mean, I
could have a bank job tomorrow (customers' service) for 600 dollars a
month (I have a friend who keeps offering me that several times a year),
but memory is so bad, I'd make 100 unforgivable mistakes during the
first day.

At the time of real crisis, I eat bread and margarine with salt and
drink tea all day. It's funny because I still dress in Marks and
Spencer's clothes Angie bought me. I have about 5 pairs of shoes each
originally worth around a hundred bucks. The Ukrainian girls in a local
shop think I am a rich guy. And they're really into rich Polish guys so
I get lotsa smiles :)

LOL! Thanks!

pi

[pi]

Right, I see. Thank you. Btw, any idea why Lee doesn't post here anymore?

pi

[noname]

When you have to go take a dump, and you leave your superweapon on the
kitchen counter, you might want it to lock itself against use by those who
should not; of course it's hard, otherwise it wouldn't be worth picking up
off the street.

[noname]

Yeah, that sounds pretty ironic. <snort>

[noname]

Kitty P <kitty...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "pi" wrote in message news:nmer75$8tr$1...@dont-email.me...

> But I still need math to be complete.

No pi, you do not. Are you better than Godel? If so, I'll want some
proof.

Math is great, but it's for measured things. Some things can't really be
measured. Math doesn't help there. Logic might. Or might not. And
mostly, the measurements of the things that can be measured, don't help
make things clearer, they merely offer more details to conflate with that
which is measured.

But FFS get over the absurd idea that you know what you need, if you
actually knew what you needed you'd be able to reach out and pick it up,
you'd be done by now. The way to find what you seek is to sit there and
sniff until the world brings you a whiff of it, then do what's next, just
like a stupid old hound-dog does when it picks up the scent. They say
that Tao is impartial, that the bright and dull are all alike given
opportunities to become lifted.

> It will help me model everything
> more precisely and find all the places where my thinking needs further
> improvement.

pi, you do not know those things, they are a dream you believe. The only
way to know is to allow knowledge to become known to you naked of
confusion. Most people don't have the balls to risk their sanity on a very
iffy bet. They may be the smart ones. Don't just stumble around, stumble
around carefully, senses doing what they will, mind remaining fearless of
what may be sensed, until at least after it's been sensed.

[pi]

On 2016-07-17 18:50, noname wrote:
> pi <pi6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-07-17 15:16, noname wrote:
>>
>>> Stop entirely. Think.
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the lesson you are being taught by the world (not-you) which has
>>> been so difficult for you to learn that you upset yourself? What part of
>>> you is obstructing the progress of the rest? Which is you?
>>
>> This is hard.
>>
>> pi
>>
>
> When you have to go take a dump, and you leave your superweapon on the
> kitchen counter, you might want it to lock itself against use by those who
> should not; of course it's hard, otherwise it wouldn't be worth picking up
> off the street.

Right. I wish you made things a little simple anyway. I am a simple
dude, you know :)

pi

[pi]

On 2016-07-17 18:50, noname wrote:

You think I understand that? :)

pi

[{:-])))]

noname wrote:
> pi <pi6...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2016-07-17 15:16, noname wrote:
> >
> >> Stop entirely. Think.
> >>
> >>
> >> What is the lesson you are being taught by the world (not-you) which has
> >> been so difficult for you to learn that you upset yourself? What part of
> >> you is obstructing the progress of the rest? Which is you?
> >
> > This is hard.
> >
> > pi
> >
>
> When you have to go take a dump, and you leave your superweapon on the
> kitchen counter, you might want it to lock itself against use by those who
> should not; of course it's hard, otherwise it wouldn't be worth picking up
> off the street.

What is it about J
that makes your brain go
and stop.

What is it about brian.

What is it about Tang.

What is it about noname.

What is it about life.

What is it about theism.

What is it about books.

What does mental culture mean.
What does it mean to reflect.

[{:-])))]

noname wrote:
>
> Kitty P <kitty...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > "pi" wrote in message news:nmer75$8tr$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> > But I still need math to be complete.
>
> No pi, you do not.

I thought he had math figured out. Sets.

Venn has its moments.
Moments within moments.
Some of them intersect.

Where they all intersect
can be called a point of origin.
A Big Bang. Sudden enlightement.
Massive. Everything changes.
All at once. Inside out.
Outside in. Mystical experience.

Naturally, such words are meaningless gibberish
for those who don't speak gibberish.

> Are you better than Godel? If so, I'll want some
> proof.
>
> Math is great, but it's for measured things. Some things can't really be
> measured. Math doesn't help there. Logic might. Or might not. And
> mostly, the measurements of the things that can be measured, don't help
> make things clearer, they merely offer more details to conflate with that
> which is measured.
>
> But FFS get over the absurd idea that you know what you need, if you
> actually knew what you needed you'd be able to reach out and pick it up,
> you'd be done by now. The way to find what you seek is to sit there and
> sniff until the world brings you a whiff of it, then do what's next, just
> like a stupid old hound-dog does when it picks up the scent. They say
> that Tao is impartial, that the bright and dull are all alike given
> opportunities to become lifted.

To think one needs something
can be to begin a quest of sorts.

To think that everything is not complete,
entirely as it is, all the time,
can be a paradigm.

Then, having adopted such a view, or paradigm,
or assumption, or presumption, one may embark
upon an endless task, looking for clues.

> > It will help me model everything
> > more precisely and find all the places where my thinking needs further
> > improvement.

As if there could ever be an end to that.

Taoism, in the Chuang-tzu, speaks to that.

Knowledge is infinite. Those who seek knowledge
in order to be complete will not succeed.

But they can always die trying.

> pi, you do not know those things, they are a dream you believe. The only
> way to know is to allow knowledge to become known to you naked of
> confusion. Most people don't have the balls to risk their sanity on a very
> iffy bet. They may be the smart ones. Don't just stumble around, stumble
> around carefully, senses doing what they will, mind remaining fearless of
> what may be sensed, until at least after it's been sensed.

Tom was born complete.
He's always been complete.

If and when he can rest in that,
then he will be able to find rest.

And maybe some relief of sorts.

[{:-])))]

noname wrote:
> Tang Huyen <tang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 7/16/2016 7:40 PM, pi wrote:
> >
> >> I think Tang has some great stories to tell about his life, but I never
> >> dared ask him. He's a university professor? liaM, is he?
> >
> > No, I am not, have never been. My highest degree
> > is a BA from UC Berkeley. I earned my living
> > in computer programming and PC support. A bunch
> > of professors and students at BU invented me as
> > a software programme which wrote in funny English.
> > In the past, some posters correctly called me the
> > Tangbot. (In contrast, the former poster Lee
> > Rudolph was a prof of math, is now retired).
> >
> > Tang Huyen
> >
>
> Yeah, that sounds pretty ironic. <snort>

Did you ever do doughnuts on your bike?

[pi]

Rubbish. The usual.

pi

[noname]

The world is perfect, you cannot improve it.
You can however improve you,
which strange as it may seem,
improves the world.

[noname]

Too busy doing endos on the whoopties.

[noname]

True rubbish, though. Learn what is you, and what is not-you, and maybe
you'll see that.

[{:-])))]

noname wrote:

> {:-]))) wrote:
>> noname wrote:

>>> Tang Huyen wrote:
>>>> pi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think Tang has some great stories to tell about his life, but I never
>>>>> dared ask him. He's a university professor? liaM, is he?
>>>>
>>>> No, I am not, have never been. My highest degree
>>>> is a BA from UC Berkeley. I earned my living
>>>> in computer programming and PC support. A bunch
>>>> of professors and students at BU invented me as
>>>> a software programme which wrote in funny English.
>>>> In the past, some posters correctly called me the
>>>> Tangbot. (In contrast, the former poster Lee
>>>> Rudolph was a prof of math, is now retired).
>>>>
>>>

>>> Yeah, that sounds pretty ironic. <snort>
>>
>> Did you ever do doughnuts on your bike?
>>
>
>Too busy doing endos on the whoopties.

Awesome! That's a 180 of a different dimension.

I'm not sure what my highest degree is.
Probably complete absurdity.

The highest degree is the highest degree, of course.
That much can certainly be said with the greatest of ease.

Probably it is both the same and different, in ways,
for each person in terms of degrees.

I actually don't have any real, official, degrees.
Running around in circles, doing 360s, counts for nothing.

- duke of aluminium foil

[{:-])))]

noname wrote:

>pi wrote:
>> {:-]))) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Tom was born complete.
>>> He's always been complete.
>>>
>>> If and when he can rest in that,
>>> then he will be able to find rest.
>>>
>>> And maybe some relief of sorts.
>>
>> Rubbish. The usual.
>>
>> pi
>>
>
>True rubbish, though. Learn what is you, and what is not-you, and maybe
>you'll see that.

Though being born, complete, with a body,
such as it was, small, and weighing some weight,
be it metric or of some other unit-value, my brain,
full of neurons, began to connect many dots.

My life-time mission, to connect all the dots,
to get the big picture in minute detail, to complete
the jig-saw puzzle known to be there, in my heart,
or my gut, or my head, or perhaps elsewhere.

My brain is complete, naturally, as all brains are.
Unless there's a lobe missing. That may occur at times.
I haven't looked that far inward, using a machine.

All there is, is my brain in its brain-case, of course.
That's as far as physicalism/materialism goes.
Why my brain thinks it's incomplete can be
a quest within a quest to embark on.

- up a tree, without a paddle

[{:-])))]

noname returned to his roots:
> {:-]))) wrote of a world:

As I am a face of your world, I am perfect.
As is everyone else. You cannot improve anyone.

Given: The world is perfect, you cannot improve it.
Tom is perfect. Tang is perfect. All faces are perfect.

>You can however improve you,
>which strange as it may seem,
>improves the world.

Having reached the end of his rope, the man leaped off
and did a swan dive into Lu Liang Falls, at the cataracts
which were not over his eyes. With his eyes fully open,
his pupils gathered the light and it passed through them.

Swimming with the current in the rapids. Confucius,
seeing this, was full of fear.

The rest is in the text.

That's why they're called, transformational.

Dao can be found in the texts.

- for those who let go of the rope

[pi]

On 2016-07-18 11:30, noname wrote:
> pi <pi6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-07-18 01:28, {:-]))) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Tom was born complete.
>>> He's always been complete.
>>>
>>> If and when he can rest in that,
>>> then he will be able to find rest.
>>>
>>> And maybe some relief of sorts.
>>
>> Rubbish. The usual.
>>
>> pi
>>
>
> True rubbish, though. Learn what is you, and what is not-you, and maybe
> you'll see that.

If you babysit J, I am sure he will be alright :)

pi

[pi]

On 2016-07-18 11:30, noname wrote:

> pi <pi6...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-07-18 01:28, {:-]))) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Tom was born complete.
>>> He's always been complete.
>>>
>>> If and when he can rest in that,
>>> then he will be able to find rest.
>>>
>>> And maybe some relief of sorts.
>>
>> Rubbish. The usual.
>>
>> pi
>>
>
> True rubbish, though. Learn what is you, and what is not-you, and maybe
> you'll see that.

If you babysit J, I am sure he will be alright.

pi

[pi]

Jeez, this sounds like jibberish written by a child on drugs.

pi

[pi]

On 2016-07-18 15:05, {:-]))) wrote:

> As I am a face of your world, I am perfect.

What do you think he took? I vote cocaine.

Do you feel like feathers, J? ;D

pi

[liaM]

The great difference between you and him is introspection :)

[{:-])))]

Once upon a time, I was a child.
My life was full of wonder. It was complete.

I did not know of school. It was before school days
had created a purple haze and my daze was not confused
by all the rules involved in doing math problems.

Dad drew me a picture on a box of kleenix, of a triangle.
He made squares out of its legs. And showed me how to count
all the little boxes in the squares of the legs of the triangle.

It didn't mean anything at the time.
Though it was as simple as three, four, five.

When each leg is equal to one, a hypotenuse can be radical.

It's, like, totally radical two!

- isosceles

[pi]

Really? What's introspection again? :)

pi

[pi]

And if I have an introspective sensation of a voice talking to me and it
is the voice of God Almighty himself telling me I am the chosen one to
save the world, does that mean that I am:

1. The Chosen One
2. A Schizophrenic
3. All of The Above
4. None of The Above ?

liaM? Will you now go silent as usual? :)

But if all you wanna do is babysit J, sure. But you need to wait. There
is a queue.

pi

[liaM]

Enjoy yourself, pi.

[liaM]

There is such as thing as a surfeit of introspection...

[pi]

Sure. I just found three loaves of old bread and some margarine in the
rubbish bin and I will most certainly enjoy them :)

Thanks!

pi

[pi]

Does an excess of this surfeit thing correlate with schizophrenia? :)

pi

[{:-])))]

liaM wrote:
> pi wrote:
>> On 2016-07-18 16:18, pi wrote:
>>> On 2016-07-18 15:53, liaM wrote:
>>>> On 7/18/2016 3:38 PM, pi wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-07-18 14:57, {:-]))) wrote:
>>>>>> noname wrote:
>>>>>>> pi wrote:
>>>>>>>> {:-]))) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tom was born complete.
>>>>>>>>> He's always been complete.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If and when he can rest in that,
>>>>>>>>> then he will be able to find rest.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And maybe some relief of sorts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rubbish. The usual.

Who or what sort of a man, reads rubbish?
Why would anyone continue to do so?
Obsessions and compulsions vary.
Between orders and disorders.

>>>>>> - up a tree, without a paddle
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeez, this sounds like jibberish written by a child on drugs.

Why someone would read jibberish
when it's usually always jibberish
might be a question someone asks.

>>>> The great difference between you and him is introspection :)
>>>
>>> Really? What's introspection again? :)
>>>
>>> pi
>>
>> And if I have an introspective sensation of a voice talking to me and it
>> is the voice of God Almighty himself telling me I am the chosen one to
>> save the world, does that mean that I am:
>>
>> 1. The Chosen One
>> 2. A Schizophrenic
>> 3. All of The Above
>> 4. None of The Above ?

If you were Jesus, then you were the Christ,
the Chosen One, now, 2016 years later after your birth
as Jesus you might be a member of His Body.

But such a Body, of Christ, is not a physical body.
To your brain, it might be rubbish, or jibberish.
You can't see any light in that tunnel-vision.

You may not have nor have had such a spiritual view.
You might be blind to such a vision. Without eyes to see.

If you were schizophrenic, delusional, etc.,
or had a messianic complex of some sort, then that's that.
You might be chosen to visit your mental health clinic.
It depends on the extent of your disorder.
You might die a thousand deaths.
As each false messiah does.

If you choose some other view, then that's your choice.
If you are not free to choose various views, then you're not.
If you are bound by some particular view or views
then you are bound by it, or them.

Some people want to fix things. Some want to be complete.

Some Christians see themselves as evangelicals and chosen
to save the world, one soul at a time. They may hear God's voice
telling them that they are chosen to do that.

You might not be one of those types. That's not your gift.
You might have shared economics with a gal.
Or played games with a nephew.
With love in your heart.

Some people would like to see some awakening of the masses
and think the world would be perfect when that happens.

Some people are of the Pure Land school of thought.
And all they need to do is say the word, Amitabha, and all is well.

>> liaM? Will you now go silent as usual? :)
>>
>> But if all you wanna do is babysit J, sure. But you need to wait. There
>> is a queue.
>>
>> pi
>
>
>Enjoy yourself, pi.

I like to think he usually does, except when he can't sleep.
And when his pain is all consuming. Then, it's a bummer.

Near as I can tell, he so far only respects noname and Tang.
Yet my survey remains incomplete, until he is complete.
His course is far from over.

And it may take an unknown amount of time to complete.

Since I have all of eternity, now, his weight is light.
He's not heavy. If one knows the song.

And, at the same time, he's a straw dog
in a bamboo grove. And playing frisbee with him
can be a great joy of mines as we two dig
each other and utter.

- cheers!

[{:-])))]

liaM wrote:

>There is such as thing as a surfeit of introspection...

Rubbish is delivered usually every morning in a.p.t.
but quite often it's been known to be dropped off
more than once a day at three.

Four in the afternoon. Does that ring a bell?

- checking the CT ...

[pi]

Totally agree! But if I wasn't Jesus, then I wasn't Jesus. Right?

Finally we agree. Let's have another beer and talk some more :)

Do you mind if I throw some shrooms in to boost our introspective
experience? :)

pi

[Kitty P]

"pi" wrote in message news:nmghl9$6fo$3...@dont-email.me...

On 2016-07-17 18:50, noname wrote:
> pi <pi6...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On 2016-07-17 15:16, noname wrote:
>>
>>> Stop entirely. Think.
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the lesson you are being taught by the world (not-you) which has
>>> been so difficult for you to learn that you upset yourself? What part
>>> of
>>> you is obstructing the progress of the rest? Which is you?
>>
>> This is hard.
>>
>> pi
>>
>
> When you have to go take a dump, and you leave your superweapon on the
> kitchen counter, you might want it to lock itself against use by those who
> should not; of course it's hard, otherwise it wouldn't be worth picking up
> off the street.

>>Right. I wish you made things a little simple anyway. I am a simple dude,
>>you know :)

>>pi

A super power all by itself.

[pi]

http://www.landmarkworldwide.com/

I am Tom Pie and I am a Scientologist :)

Tom Pie aka pi

[noname]

Are you sure? Instead of "too much" introspection, which I'm not sure
exists, there is also the risk of losing touch with reality, which I'd call
falling up your own asshole. Solipsism is a shitty viewpoint imo.

[pi]

"Through the looking glass and what Alice found down her asshole" would
be an interesting book to read.

:)

pi

[{:-])))]

noname questioned and wrote:
> liaM noted:
> > {:-]))) went all Pythagorean:

>
> >> It's, like, totally radical two!
> >>
> >> - isosceles
> >>
> >
> >
> > There is such as thing as a surfeit of introspection...
> >
> >
>
> Are you sure?

His point is well taken.
Long ago, a founder, geo, told me the same.
My tendency to flap does not go unnoticed.
This will likely not be the last time
someone comments on my rubbish heap.

> Instead of "too much" introspection,
> which I'm not sure exists,

How about: too many words spoil the word salad.
Now served in sand which's topped w/ever-Ting.
The word hash is also highly recommended.

[liaM]

That's it. Don't underestimate the amount of enbergy wasted by
narcissists becoming paeranoiac fingering their own navels.

[liaM]

On 7/19/2016 3:30 AM, {:-]))) wrote:
> noname questioned and wrote:
>> liaM noted:
>>> {:-]))) went all Pythagorean:
>>
>>>> It's, like, totally radical two!
>>>>
>>>> - isosceles
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is such as thing as a surfeit of introspection...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure?
>
> His point is well taken.
> Long ago, a founder, geo, told me the same.
> My tendency to flap does not go unnoticed.
> This will likely not be the last time
> someone comments on my rubbish heap.

smile ..

[pi]

On 2016-07-19 03:35, liaM wrote:
> On 7/19/2016 3:30 AM, {:-]))) wrote:
>> noname questioned and wrote:
>>> liaM noted:
>>>> {:-]))) went all Pythagorean:
>>>
>>>>> It's, like, totally radical two!
>>>>>
>>>>> - isosceles
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is such as thing as a surfeit of introspection...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure?
>>
>> His point is well taken.
>> Long ago, a founder, geo, told me the same.
>> My tendency to flap does not go unnoticed.
>> This will likely not be the last time
>> someone comments on my rubbish heap.
>
> smile ..

:)