Add it up

[Tony Cooper]

I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.

Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character #1
offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds out for
two bob.

Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence when
the deed is done.

At the end, Character #1 provides the promised sixpence and adds a
shilling tip.

Too many different units for me. How much did Character #2 end up
with?

My first use of UK currency, in the 1960s, was limited to guineas,
pounds, shillings, and pence. Actually, I thought there was a guinea
coin or note because I saw something priced in guineas. More fool me.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[grabber]

A florin is a two shilling (= two bob) coin, worth 24 pence. Two
shillings + sixpence + one shilling = three and six.

A guinea was originally a coin, but later just a name for 21 shillings.

[Janet]

In article <77o7ab5qd95lfofgb...@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...

>
> I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.
>
> Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character #1
> offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds out for
> two bob.
>
> Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence when
> the deed is done.
>
> At the end, Character #1 provides the promised sixpence and adds a
> shilling tip.
>
> Too many different units for me. How much did Character #2 end up
> with?

Three shillings and sixpence. (aka "three and six")

about 17 pence in new money

>
> My first use of UK currency, in the 1960s, was limited to guineas,
> pounds, shillings, and pence. Actually, I thought there was a guinea
> coin or note because I saw something priced in guineas. More fool me.

Janet

[Katy Jennison]

On 23/01/2016 20:32, Tony Cooper wrote:
> I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.
>
> Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character #1
> offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds out for
> two bob.
>
> Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence when
> the deed is done.
>
> At the end, Character #1 provides the promised sixpence and adds a
> shilling tip.
>
> Too many different units for me. How much did Character #2 end up
> with?

3/6. That is, three shillings and sixpence.

--
Katy Jennison

[Stan Brown]

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 15:32:11 -0500, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.
>
> Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character #1
> offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds out for
> two bob.
>
> Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence when
> the deed is done.
>
> At the end, Character #1 provides the promised sixpence and adds a
> shilling tip.
>
> Too many different units for me. How much did Character #2 end up
> with?

Shilling = 12 (old) pence
Bob = shilling
Sixpence = 6 (old) pence

For florins, crowns, and sovereigns I turn to a source such as "Pre-
Decimal Sterling" <URL:http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/units/money.htm>.

Florin = 2 shillings = 24 (old) pence

> My first use of UK currency, in the 1960s, was limited to guineas,
> pounds, shillings, and pence. Actually, I thought there was a
> guinea coin or note because I saw something priced in guineas. More
> fool me.

Guineas are or were, if I have the term correct, "money of account",
with no single tangible equivalent. As you probably know, a guinea
was 21 shillings. Wikipedia says there were guinea coins until 1816;
I hadn't known there was ever a guinea coin.

obAUE: Shouldn't that be "more fool I"? I think "More fool him" is
unidiomatic and should be "more fool he".

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the
/right/ word is ... the difference between the lightning-bug
and the lightning." --Mark Twain

[Tony Cooper]

Yes, I became curious and asked store clerk. He said that a guinea
was a shilling more than a pound, and just a way of pricing to make
the item seem more upscale.

>
>obAUE: Shouldn't that be "more fool I"? I think "More fool him" is
>unidiomatic and should be "more fool he".

There's some form it should take?

[musika]

On 23/01/2016 20:32, Tony Cooper wrote:

3/6d - 3 shillings and sixpence. (Florin = 2 bob = 2 shillings.)


--
Ray
UK

[Harrison Hill]

Okay you financial numismatists :)

Let's see if anyone can remember what (Cockney) "one and eleven three"
translates into modern currency.

[Jerry Friedman]

...

So Character #1 paid the full asking price in advance and promised to
add more on successful performance? And then paid that and added a tip
on top of it? He or she drives a hard bargain.

--
Jerry Friedman

[grabber]

Nothing especially Cockney about it AFAICS and before all our times, I
think, but that would be one shilling and eleven pence three farthings,
or 23.75 old pence. About 9.9 pence today.

[Tony Cooper]

Well, the task requested yielded better results than were expected.

[Ross]

ObEtymology: They were named for Guinea (West Africa), the source of
the gold they were made from.

[Harrison Hill]

I bought a single Mojo in a shop for a single farthing - so none of
this "before all our times" nonsense. The chill stare of the shop-keeper
I can feel burning (sic) into my back now :(

[musika]

I bet you that *most* of the RPs here were alive when the farthing
ceased to be legal tender. <Googles> 31st Dec 1960.

--
Ray
UK

[musika]

And they were only fixed at 21 shillings in 1717.

--
Ray
UK

[the Omrud]

On 23/01/2016 20:32, Tony Cooper wrote:

Many have given the answer, but I pop in to tell you that the florin was
introduced in 1849 as an intended first stage of decimalising the pound
(being one-tenth of a pound. In the event it took about 125 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_shilling_coin :

In 1847 a motion was introduced in Parliament calling for the
introduction of a decimal currency and the striking of coins of
one-tenth and one-hundredth of a pound. The motion was subsequently
withdrawn on the understanding that a one-tenth pound coin would be
produced to test public opinion.

--
David

[charles]

In article <db71f1f7-a7bb-459f...@googlegroups.com>,

I have a container with about 100 farthings in it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

[charles]

In article <99b8fab8-76b0-42dc...@googlegroups.com>,

just under 10p

[Robin Bignall]

I suspect that luxuries such as racehorses and pictures are still priced
in guineas.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Jan-24 08:06, Stan Brown wrote:

> Guineas are or were, if I have the term correct, "money of account",
> with no single tangible equivalent. As you probably know, a guinea
> was 21 shillings. Wikipedia says there were guinea coins until 1816;
> I hadn't known there was ever a guinea coin.

As I understand it, there used to be a one-pound coin called a
sovereign. Gold from Guinea was of especially fine quality, so a
sovereign made from Guinea gold was worth more than a pound.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Mark Brader]

Katy Jennison:

> 3/6. That is, three shillings and sixpence.

Or in yet another notation, 3s.6d. I think 0.3.6 was also used
(the 0 is 0 pounds).
--
Mark Brader | It is so alpha that Jean-Luc Godard is filming there.
Toronto | It is so alpha that it's 64-bit RISC from the 1990s...
m...@vex.net | It's so alpha that when you turn it sideways,
| it looks like an ox... -- Nick Mathewson

[Peter Moylan]

I was going to say one pound eleven and thruppence, but evidently there
are things I didn't know about English usage. Australia never issued a
farthing coin, although British farthings were legal tender in the dim
distant past.

The other day I met "six bits" in my reading. I had to dig deep into my
memory to recall that the Spanish dollar used to be broken into eight
bits, and work out the value from that.

Once the USA started minting its own money, it never got around to
issuing a one-bit coin. Now that I think of it, it's a little strange
that the US never went for octal rather than decimal currency. It went
partially binary with a quarter-dollar coin, but stopped at that.

[Robin Bignall]

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 22:47:27 +0000, musika <mUs...@NOSPAMexcite.com>
wrote:

I don't remember being able to buy much for a farthing even in the
1940s. The Dandy and Beano comics were 2d apiece after the war, when
they started being printed again, and a small ice cream was a penny or
two.

[grabber]

Turns out the farthing was discontinued later than I thought, though
still before my lifetime. As a boy I was shown farthings along with
silver thruppences as relics of the past.

I remember buying 4 blackjacks for a penny, but I forget if it was an
old or new penny.

[grabber]

I stand corrected.

[Stan Brown]

Or, half a crown plus a bob.

[Robert Bannister]

Mainly sweets - the ones that later became four for a penny, but I used
to be able to buy just one for a farthing. I don't remember anything
else that you buy with just one farthing, but of course many items were
priced "X pounds, nineteen shillings and elevenpence three farthings".

--
Robert B.

[bill van]

In article <n813lc$7c5$1...@dont-email.me>,

Six bits would be understood by most Canadians as 75 cents, or three
quarters. Two bits means 25 cents. Wikipedia says the U.S. has the same
usage, and that it does indeed stem from the Spanish eight bits.
--
bill

[Richard Tobin]

In article <n80qk4$6gt$1...@dont-email.me>,
musika <mus...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Florin = 2 bob

The florin was introduced in 1849 as a test of decimal currency, two
shillings being a tenth of a pound. It was such a success that in
1971 a full range of decimal coins was introduced.

-- Richard

[Richard Tobin]

In article <n80vp7$6c2$1...@dont-email.me>,

musika <mus...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>I bet you that *most* of the RPs here were alive when the farthing
>ceased to be legal tender. <Googles> 31st Dec 1960.

Not me!

-- Richard

[Tony Cooper]

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:48:48 -0800, bill van <bil...@delete.shaw.ca>
wrote:

A standard cheer in the US is:

Two-bits!
Four-bits!
Six-bits!
a dollar!

All for (the team name) Stand up and holler!

George Edmondson, Jr is famous in Florida for being "Mr Two Bits". He
was a dedicated University of Florida football fanatic. He started
leading the above cheer at UoF football games in 1949 (against The
Citadel) and continued to lead that cheer at all homes games until
1998. Between 1998 and 2008 he appeared a few times as his health
permitted. He was 86 years-old in 2008.

Now, at every home game, a "Celebrity Mr Two Bits" leads the cheer.

[Peter T. Daniels]

A line near the beginning of *Murder, My Sweet* (1944, the first movie version
of *Farewell, My Lovely* and the first Philip Marlowe movie, starring Dick
Powell, with the title changed so that audiences wouldn't think it was a
musical like he usually was in), seen on Thirteen this evening:

"For six bits plus tax, he'll slit your throat."

In Canada, the VAT (GST) would have been included.

[Lewis]

In message <77o7ab5qd95lfofgb...@4ax.com>

Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.

> Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character #1
> offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds out for
> two bob.

> Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence when
> the deed is done.

That is confusing. Is this a British writer? A florin is two bob is two
shilling, so...

I mean, I guess I could see this sort of exchange, but it still seems
odd.


--
'That's blasphemy,' said the vampire. He gasped as Vimes shot him a
glance like sunlight. 'That's what people say when the voiceless speak.'

[Katy Jennison]

On 24/01/2016 07:55, Lewis wrote:
> In message <77o7ab5qd95lfofgb...@4ax.com>
> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.
>
>> Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character #1
>> offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds out for
>> two bob.
>
>> Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence when
>> the deed is done.
>
> That is confusing. Is this a British writer? A florin is two bob is two
> shilling, so...
>
> I mean, I guess I could see this sort of exchange, but it still seems
> odd.
>
>

You mean that the mixture of different terms seems odd? I don't think
it does to any of us who grew up with it. Much like dollar, buck, one,
one-spot, etc, surely.

--
Katy Jennison

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

In about 1975, when we already had decimal currency, I was paid £15.75
for examining a DPhil thesis in Oxford. I thought it was a very strange
total until I converted it to guineas.


--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

If memory serves, that was the reason for reviving the florin. It
seemed a bit odd WIWAL to have separate coins for 2/- and 2/6, but the
half-crown (2/6) had been around a long time. The first time I was in
the Netherlands (about 1961) I found it very convenient that the Dutch
florin was worth the same as a British florin, and that 6d coins were
accepted as equivalent to 25c.

If they had redefined the farthing so that there were 1000 farthings
per pound instead of 960 (which would have led to very few problems for
anyone) they'd have had a simpler route to decimalization. The USSR had
applied this idea in a more extreme fashion: the rouble had been
revalued 10-fold (or maybe 100-fold, I don't remember) in the 1950s,
and old roubles were no longer accepted, but old kopek coins continued
to be accepted as equivalent to new kopeks. Anyone who had their
fortune saved in the form of kopek coins suddenly became much richer.

--
athel

[Viv Midlane]

Tony Cooper wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:06:31 -0500, Stan Brown
> <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>

> > On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 15:32:11 -0500, Tony Cooper wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.
> >>
> >> Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character #1
> >> offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds out
> for >> two bob.
> >>
> >> Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence when
> >> the deed is done.
> >>
> >> At the end, Character #1 provides the promised sixpence and adds a
> >> shilling tip.
> >>
> >> Too many different units for me. How much did Character #2 end up
> >> with?
> >

> > Shilling = 12 (old) pence
> > Bob = shilling
> > Sixpence = 6 (old) pence
> >
> > For florins, crowns, and sovereigns I turn to a source such as "Pre-

> > Decimal Sterling" <url:

> > http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/units/money.htm>.
> >
> > Florin = 2 shillings = 24 (old) pence
> >

> >> My first use of UK currency, in the 1960s, was limited to guineas,
> >> pounds, shillings, and pence. Actually, I thought there was a
> >> guinea coin or note because I saw something priced in guineas. More
> >> fool me.
> >

> > Guineas are or were, if I have the term correct, "money of
> > account", with no single tangible equivalent. As you probably know,
> > a guinea was 21 shillings. Wikipedia says there were guinea coins
> > until 1816; I hadn't known there was ever a guinea coin.
>
> Yes, I became curious and asked store clerk. He said that a guinea
> was a shilling more than a pound, and just a way of pricing to make
> the item seem more upscale.

I can just about remember items being sold in posh department stores in
guineas in the 1960s. You're right it was on upmarket goods - often
ladies' frocks and furniture AIRC. Pricing in guineas looked classy,
but it was also a way of disguising the true cost, a bit like pricing
an item at 9.99. Buying an item at 60 guineas would actually cost you
63GBP, and as the cost got higher the difference between a pound and
guinea price increased sharply.

DC

--

[Unknown]

Oops...

--

[Katy Jennison]

Welcome back!

--
Katy Jennison

[Janet]

In article <5546ad9f...@candehope.me.uk>, cha...@candehope.me.uk
says...

I can't think what you could buy nowadays for 10p.

Janet

[Unknown]

Thank you Katy, nice to be back. I have been in Farn Parts[1] ...

DC [1] Term used in Southern Hampshire to describe Dorset, Wiltshire,
Sussex and other parts of Hampshire.
--

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Allegedly, when racehorses are sold at auction the buyer pays N guineas
and the seller receives N pounds. The difference (5%) is the
auctioneer's commission.

I'v heard that same said of sales of other goods by auction.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Unknown]

Harrison Hill wrote:

> On Saturday, 23 January 2016 21:47:13 UTC, grabber wrote:
> > On 1/23/2016 9:39 PM, Harrison Hill wrote:

> > > On Saturday, 23 January 2016 20:32:11 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > >> I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.
> > > >
> > >> Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character
> > #1 >> offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds
> > out for >> two bob.
> > > >
> > >> Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence
> > when >> the deed is done.
> > > >
> > >> At the end, Character #1 provides the promised sixpence and adds
> > a >> shilling tip.
> > > >
> > >> Too many different units for me. How much did Character #2 end
> > up >> with?
> > > >

> > >> My first use of UK currency, in the 1960s, was limited to
> > guineas, >> pounds, shillings, and pence. Actually, I thought
> > there was a guinea >> coin or note because I saw something priced
> > in guineas. More fool me.
> > >

> > > Okay you financial numismatists :)
> > >
> > > Let's see if anyone can remember what (Cockney) "one and eleven
> > > three" translates into modern currency.
> >
> > Nothing especially Cockney about it AFAICS and before all our
> > times, I think, but that would be one shilling and eleven pence
> > three farthings, or 23.75 old pence. About 9.9 pence today.
>
> I bought a single Mojo in a shop for a single farthing

Have you still got it working?

DC
--

[Unknown]

Seeing this yesterday reminded me of the long-forgotten 'to spend a
penny':

http://en.what-character-are-you.com/d/en/1041/index/5599.html

Spending a penny at Manchester Piccadilly station these days will cost
you 30p. I'm fairly certain at Euston it's half a dollar.

DC

--

[Unknown]

I suppose one thing that's vaguely confusing for a non-BritOfCertainAge
is that 'florin' applied to the coin, but not usually the value. You'd
possibly say "I've got a florin in my pocket", but not "a whole florin
for a pint of beer! That's outrageous!" - it'd be "two bob/shillings".

At least, I think so... I do remember getting two bob a week pocket
money WIWAL.

DC

--

[Lewis]

In message <n823gn$20h$1...@news.albasani.net>

Katy Jennison <ka...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
> On 24/01/2016 07:55, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <77o7ab5qd95lfofgb...@4ax.com>
>> Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm reading a novel set in the UK in the early 1920s.
>>
>>> Character #1 is asking Character #2 to do something. Character #1
>>> offers Character #2 a shilling to do it. Character #2 holds out for
>>> two bob.
>>
>>> Character #1 hands him a florin and promises to add a sixpence when
>>> the deed is done.
>>
>> That is confusing. Is this a British writer? A florin is two bob is two
>> shilling, so...
>>
>> I mean, I guess I could see this sort of exchange, but it still seems
>> odd.
>>
>>

> You mean that the mixture of different terms seems odd?

No. I mean negotiating to 2 shillings, then paying two shillings with the
promise of another sixpence and then paying a shilling and sixpences.
Especially when the initial offer was a single shilling.

> I don't think it does to any of us who grew up with it. Much like
> dollar, buck, one, one-spot, etc, surely.

Agree. That part sounds normal.



--
Mac OSX - Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than fixing
Windows.

[grabber]

Hunh? Half a dollar in new money would be 12.5p

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Agreed. Under any name.

[Peter T. Daniels]

"one-spot"?

We have ten-spots and I think maybe five-spots. A very common item in the etc
is "single."

[Unknown]

Yes of course, you're right. Ten bob. Ten bob!

DC

--

[Unknown]

Aw, shucks...

DC

--

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 6:39:16 AM UTC-5, Django Cat wrote:

> I can just about remember items being sold in posh department stores in
> guineas in the 1960s. You're right it was on upmarket goods - often
> ladies' frocks and furniture AIRC. Pricing in guineas looked classy,
> but it was also a way of disguising the true cost, a bit like pricing
> an item at 9.99. Buying an item at 60 guineas would actually cost you
> 63GBP, and as the cost got higher the difference between a pound and
> guinea price increased sharply.

How does 5% increase at all? The wealthier you are, the less the 5% matters.

"If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

It may be somewhere in Sayers that folks are haggling over something, the
buyer offers pounds, the seller says "Make it guineas and we have a deal."

[GordonD]

Though you can no longer get a shave and a haircut for it.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

I have a friend several years older than I am who was a young boy in
Hungary at the time of the hyperinflation of 1946. I asked him how much
the inflation affected his life, and he said not much: what you could
buy with 10^15 pengös was a 10^15 pengö stamp, and as an enthusiastic
stamp collector (he still is, I think) that was what he wanted to buy.

Can you still buy a 10p stamp in the UK? I imagine yes. The last time I
tried you could buy 5c stamps in France: quite convenient, they are
too, when they increase the price of a letter by a few centimes, as
they did at the beginning of this month, from 0.76€ to 0.80€.



--
athel

[Stan Brown]

On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:48:48 -0800, bill van wrote:
> Six bits would be understood by most Canadians as 75 cents, or three
> quarters. Two bits means 25 cents. Wikipedia says the U.S. has the same
> usage, and that it does indeed stem from the Spanish eight bits.

True, but I think "two bits" for a quarter is unknown to generations
after mine (ours).

Unknowingly, I quoted the same cheer that Tony did, but hopefully I
was quick enough to stop that article from going out.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the
/right/ word is ... the difference between the lightning-bug
and the lightning." --Mark Twain

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 07:55:13 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
> That is confusing. Is this a British writer? A florin is two bob is two
> shilling, so...
>
> I mean, I guess I could see this sort of exchange, but it still seems
> odd.

I remember the story where Sherlock Holmes pretended to be delirious,
and was raving to Watson about florins and half-crowns. I looked them
up, then promptly forgot them.

I looked them up yesterday, and we'll see how long it takes me to
forget them again!

[Pablo]

Tony Cooper wrote:

> Yes, I became curious and asked store clerk. He said that a guinea
> was a shilling more than a pound, and just a way of pricing to make
> the item seem more upscale.

Still used, I believe, in the equine world.

--

Pablo

http://www.ipernity.com/home/313627
https://paulc.es/
https://asetrad.org

[Richard Tobin]

In article <MPG.310eb7b53...@news.individual.net>,

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>I remember the story where Sherlock Holmes pretended to be delirious,

The Adventure of the Dying Detective.

>and was raving to Watson about florins and half-crowns. I looked them
>up, then promptly forgot them.

Half-crowns and oysters, I think.

-- Richard

[Unknown]

Probably is.

DC

--

[Stan Brown]

You're right, or at least "florins" doesn't occur in that story. GREP
reveals that the sole occurrence of "florin" in the canon is in "The
Crooked Man",(*) "he had given her what looked like a bad florin".

(*) I GREPped my plain-text Gutenberg Edition. "The Adventure of" was
not given as part of the story title. My book of /Strand Magazine/
facsimiles does show "The Adventure of the Crooked Man" as the title.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 10:27:10 -0500, Stan Brown
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:48:48 -0800, bill van wrote:
>> Six bits would be understood by most Canadians as 75 cents, or three
>> quarters. Two bits means 25 cents. Wikipedia says the U.S. has the same
>> usage, and that it does indeed stem from the Spanish eight bits.
>
>True, but I think "two bits" for a quarter is unknown to generations
>after mine (ours).
>

My daughter was a cheerleader in high school. The "Two Bits" cheer
was part of the team's repertoire, so it at least survived to that
generation. (Born: 1967)

>Unknowingly, I quoted the same cheer that Tony did, but hopefully I
>was quick enough to stop that article from going out.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Pablo]

Stan Brown wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:48:48 -0800, bill van wrote:
>> Six bits would be understood by most Canadians as 75 cents, or three
>> quarters. Two bits means 25 cents. Wikipedia says the U.S. has the same
>> usage, and that it does indeed stem from the Spanish eight bits.
>
> True, but I think "two bits" for a quarter is unknown to generations
> after mine (ours).

I think I've only heard "two-bit" as an adjective meaning cheap.

This just sprang into my head, and I'd guess it's maybe the best known
reference to American bits outside of the USA:

"...two hours of pushin' broom buys a
Eight by ten four-bit room "

or something like that.

[LFS]

It's 50p at Victoria. I doubt whether Euston is as cheap as you think.



--
Laura (emulate St George for email)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Yes, although I don't see them very often. Most stamps used are specific
to the service, size and weight (First or Second Class, Normal or
Large). I think that if the postage doesn't fit one of those standard
categories your local Post Office will print a suitable stamp/label for
the amount. This can alo be done online.[1]

The 1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, etc. stamps are described as "Make up values".
http://shop.royalmail.com/stamp-sheets/make-up-values/icat/makeupvalues?sort=sequence

[1]
http://www.royalmail.com/personal/uk-delivery/online-postage

Online Postage

Buy and print postage from your computer
Need to send that letter or parcel quickly?

Buy and print postage from the comfort of your own home or office
with our free, easy-to-use online postage services.

Such a postage label bought and then printed at home or in the office
will have an individual barcode. Any attempt to print off and use
multiple copies of such a label will be noticed and no doubt appropriate
action will be taken.

Examples of such postage labels purchased online:
http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/Royal-Mail-Online-Postage-Labels-2015.pdf

> The last time I
>tried you could buy 5c stamps in France: quite convenient, they are
>too, when they increase the price of a letter by a few centimes, as
>they did at the beginning of this month, from 0.76€ to 0.80€.

--

[Katy Jennison]

I thought it might have been the ivory chessmen, but it isn't. Now I'll
be racking my brains for a while.

--
Katy Jennison

[Lewis]

In message <MPG.310eb7594...@news.individual.net>

Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:48:48 -0800, bill van wrote:
>> Six bits would be understood by most Canadians as 75 cents, or three
>> quarters. Two bits means 25 cents. Wikipedia says the U.S. has the same
>> usage, and that it does indeed stem from the Spanish eight bits.

> True, but I think "two bits" for a quarter is unknown to generations
> after mine (ours).

Hmm. I'm not so sure about that. It's never been common, but I think
it's still just as uncommon as it was.

--
SOME SHADOWS ARE SO LONG, THEY ARRIVE BEFORE THE LIGHT. --Soul Music

[Katy Jennison]

The First Class and Second Class stamps are whatever value the current
price for first- or second-class post is, so that one can buy a few
hundred of the stamps at one price and continue to use them irrespective
of the price rises over the months or years.

The only time I actually need to look up the current price is when I
want to put together two or three stamps to the equivalent of the cost
of sending a heavier-than-usual letter, or a letter overseas.

--
Katy Jennison

[Unknown]

I think you're right!

DC

--

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 11:24:22 -0500, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 10:27:10 -0500, Stan Brown
> <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:48:48 -0800, bill van wrote:
> >> Six bits would be understood by most Canadians as 75 cents, or three
> >> quarters. Two bits means 25 cents. Wikipedia says the U.S. has the same
> >> usage, and that it does indeed stem from the Spanish eight bits.
> >
> >True, but I think "two bits" for a quarter is unknown to generations
> >after mine (ours).
> >
> My daughter was a cheerleader in high school. The "Two Bits" cheer
> was part of the team's repertoire, so it at least survived to that
> generation. (Born: 1967)

Right, but rhymes have a way of surviving as mindless chants, with
virtually none of the people who repeat them being able to say what
they mean. How many people, even of our generation, really think
about the words of things we've chanted a thousand times, like the
Pledge of Allegiance, the Lord's Prayer, or "Pop goes the weasel"?

If you ask all the cheerleaders who have chanted the "two bit" cheer
what "two bits" is in US money, without specifically drawing
attention to that cheer, I'll bet you that under 1% of them will be
able to answer it.

If you do draw attention to that cheer and then ask the question,
I'll bet the figure is still under 5%. It's a cliché for old
curmudgeons to bemoan the younger generation, but after teaching
college for 15 years I am saddened at how few of them can draw even
simple of logical connections like that one -- and it's been getting
steadily worse.

[Stan Brown]

On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 20:03:37 +0000, Katy Jennison wrote:
> The First Class and Second Class stamps are whatever value the current
> price for first- or second-class post is, so that one can buy a few
> hundred of the stamps at one price and continue to use them irrespective
> of the price rises over the months or years.

It's the same here in the US. A few years ago, when price increases
were coming thick and fast, the Postal Service introduced "forever"
stamps. (Letters must go by first class, such as it is. We do have
second-class mail, but it's for magazines and the like, not letters.)

[Unknown]

Pablo wrote:

> Stan Brown wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:48:48 -0800, bill van wrote:
> >> Six bits would be understood by most Canadians as 75 cents, or
> three >> quarters. Two bits means 25 cents. Wikipedia says the U.S.
> has the same >> usage, and that it does indeed stem from the Spanish
> eight bits.
> >
> > True, but I think "two bits" for a quarter is unknown to generations
> > after mine (ours).
>
> I think I've only heard "two-bit" as an adjective meaning cheap.
>
> This just sprang into my head, and I'd guess it's maybe the best
> known reference to American bits outside of the USA:
>
> "...two hours of pushin' broom buys a
> Eight by ten four-bit room "
>
> or something like that.

8x12 apparently.

DC

--

[Robert Bannister]

On 25/01/2016 12:58 am, LFS wrote:

>
> It's 50p at Victoria. I doubt whether Euston is as cheap as you think.

I suppose the only consolation for women when it comes to public toilets
is that fact that at least in Britain you can usually find one, even
though you can't always be sure it won't be locked up.
--
Robert B.

[David Kleinecke]

I hear an 8 by 10 room that rents for 50 cents a night. Very far
down the social scale. 1930's assumed.

[Robin Bignall]

Not necessarily true anymore. Hoddesdon used to have three public
toilets in 2001 when I moved here. They've all been closed and
demolished. Apparently there is a list of shops and restaurants that
will allow members of the public to use their facilities.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Robert Bannister]

Progress is not always in a forward direction.
--
Robert B.

[David Kleinecke]

GE used to use the slogan "Progress is our most important product".
But they stopped a long time ago.

[Peter T. Daniels]

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 4:37:36 PM UTC-5, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 20:03:37 +0000, Katy Jennison wrote:

> > The First Class and Second Class stamps are whatever value the current
> > price for first- or second-class post is, so that one can buy a few
> > hundred of the stamps at one price and continue to use them irrespective
> > of the price rises over the months or years.
>
> It's the same here in the US. A few years ago, when price increases
> were coming thick and fast, the Postal Service introduced "forever"
> stamps. (Letters must go by first class, such as it is. We do have
> second-class mail, but it's for magazines and the like, not letters.)

They did away with the numerical classes of mail years before Forever stamps
were introduced.

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Jan-25 00:33, Django Cat wrote:

> Spending a penny at Manchester Piccadilly station these days will cost
> you 30p. I'm fairly certain at Euston it's half a dollar.

Was there ever a time when you could go for a p?

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

[Peter Moylan]

On 2016-Jan-25 08:37, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 20:03:37 +0000, Katy Jennison wrote:
>> The First Class and Second Class stamps are whatever value the current
>> price for first- or second-class post is, so that one can buy a few
>> hundred of the stamps at one price and continue to use them irrespective
>> of the price rises over the months or years.
>
> It's the same here in the US. A few years ago, when price increases
> were coming thick and fast, the Postal Service introduced "forever"
> stamps. (Letters must go by first class, such as it is. We do have
> second-class mail, but it's for magazines and the like, not letters.)

Right now would be a good time to have those in Australia. The ordinary
letter price has just jumped from 70c to $1. As an added service, if you
pay an extra 50c you get an express service that will deliver the letter
almost as fast as last year's speed.

This is looking like a move to eliminate snail mail altogether. Some
time this year, if I remember correctly, we'll be down to three
deliveries per week.

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 25 Jan 2016 07:18:03 +0800, Robert Bannister
<rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:

A quick look at the above leads one to think that women in public
toilets are easy to find, but doesn't answer the question of why
Robert wants to find women in public toilets. No wonder the women
lock themselves up when in the toilet.

[bill van]

In article <n83shi$i4e$1...@dont-email.me>,

Canada Post is doing something similar, downgrading suburban areas to
"community mailboxes", stacks of up to 40 or 50 boxes where the mail for
whole streets is dropped for residents to pick up on foot, and reducing
its work force.

Volume of mail has been dropping by five or six per cent a year for more
than a decade. I don't like to see the service eroded, but I think it
would be increasingly costly to maintain it at previous levels.
--
bill

[Mark Brader]

Stan Brown:

>> It's the same here in the US. A few years ago, when price increases
>> were coming thick and fast, the Postal Service introduced "forever"
>> stamps. (Letters must go by first class, such as it is. We do have
>> second-class mail, but it's for magazines and the like, not letters.)

In Canada they're "permanent" stamps, marked P. But...

Peter Moylan:

> Right now would be a good time to have those in Australia. The ordinary
> letter price has just jumped from 70c to $1.

...when they announced that our postal rate was about to jump from
63 cents (plus tax) to "85 cents each if you buy enough<*> stamps at
one time, otherwise $1" (plus tax), they also suspended the sale of
P stamps until the increase had taken effect.

*I think the threshold is 10. I usually buy more than that at a
time anyway.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Don't be silly -- send it to Canada"
m...@vex.net -- British postal worker

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Jerry Friedman]

"King of the Road" was released in 1964. I don't remember that far
back, but the rent and the wages do sound more like the '30s than the
'60s. Nostalgia?

--
Jerry Friedman don't pay no union dues.

[Snidely]

That and being out in the boonies. Possibly an oasis along some
federal highway nicking a corner of New Mexico.

/dps

--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Tony Cooper]

If you take song lyrics literally, then the wage was 25 cents an hour.
That was the minimum hourly wage in 1938 when federal law first
established a minimum wage amount.

You could add maybe five years to 1938 because a vagabond hobo would
not be paid for pushing the broom, but might be given a room in
exchange for two hours of labor in a flophouse that rented rooms for
50 cents a night.

Or, you could see the "four-bit room" to be a description of a room
that *should* have cost 50 cents a night for what you got, but
actually cost $2.50 a night. (The minimum wage in 1964 was $1.25 an
hour)

But, is it right to take song lyrics literally?

If you took your Chevy to the levee you should have expected the levee
to be dry. A levee is a raised embankment that prevents a river from
overflowing. There would have to be a major flood for the levee not
to be dry, and you'd know that before driving out to meet the good ole
boys drinking whiskey 'n rye.

Why would you want to go to a place that swings like a pendulum do?
Pendulums swing in a absolutely predictable manner and never move
outside of a confined arc of space. A dull action at best, even when
wound up.

If she just received a brand new pair of roller skates, you would
think they would have come with a key. Besides, she rode past his
house on her new roller skates the night before, so she must have had
a key to tighten the clamps.

Sometimes lyrics are written just to rhyme or fit.

[RH Draney]

On 1/24/2016 11:21 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>
> But, is it right to take song lyrics literally?
>
> If you took your Chevy to the levee you should have expected the levee
> to be dry. A levee is a raised embankment that prevents a river from
> overflowing. There would have to be a major flood for the levee not
> to be dry, and you'd know that before driving out to meet the good ole
> boys drinking whiskey 'n rye.

I've been listening to this song, on and off, for 45 years now, and only
in the last week did I realize that Mr McLean lays claim to having been
a "lonely teenage broncin' buck"....

> Why would you want to go to a place that swings like a pendulum do?
> Pendulums swing in a absolutely predictable manner and never move
> outside of a confined arc of space. A dull action at best, even when
> wound up.
>
> If she just received a brand new pair of roller skates, you would
> think they would have come with a key. Besides, she rode past his
> house on her new roller skates the night before, so she must have had
> a key to tighten the clamps.

Hey, you changed songwriters there!...when you mentioned roller skates,
I was all keyed up to hear how you can use them in a buffalo herd if
you're very, very careful....

> Sometimes lyrics are written just to rhyme or fit.

Or to return once again to Mr Miller: "Roses are red and violets are
purple, sugar is sweet and so's maple surple"....r

[LFS]

They're not at all easy to find. I usually head for coffee shops or
department stores, or posh hotels, where the facilities are usually
superior.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2016-01-24 19:57:40 +0000, Lewis said:

> In message <MPG.310eb7594...@news.individual.net>
> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> On Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:48:48 -0800, bill van wrote:
>>> Six bits would be understood by most Canadians as 75 cents, or three
>>> quarters. Two bits means 25 cents. Wikipedia says the U.S. has the same
>>> usage, and that it does indeed stem from the Spanish eight bits.
>
>> True, but I think "two bits" for a quarter is unknown to generations
>> after mine (ours).
>
> Hmm. I'm not so sure about that. It's never been common, but I think
> it's still just as uncommon as it was.

Anyone who saw the film of Oklahoma will have heard it (without
necessarily understanding it).


--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

The room I rented in Oxford (with breakfast included) in 1964 or so was
£2 12/6 for a week, or £0.375 per day. At £1 = $2.80 (as it was then)
that's $1.05 per day. It was not especially salubrious, but OK. For
those who know Oxford, it was off the Cowley Road --- St Mary's Road, I
think. The previous room was, I think, cheaper, and a nicer room, £2
10/-, but further out, in Old Marston.

--
athel

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Well, men of a certain type look for men in public toilets. It's called
cottaging, I think.


--
athel

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

grabber skrev:

> Turns out the farthing was discontinued later than I thought, though
> still before my lifetime. As a boy I was shown farthings along with
> silver thruppences as relics of the past.

I learned in school about farthings as a curiosity. That would
be in the beginning of the sixties.

--
Bertel - stadig med Linux

[Cheryl]

Not just suburban areas, I think, but anywhere that offered door-to-door
delivery. The community mailboxes (formerly "supermailboxes") were
certainly being installed in all areas of St. John's before the project
was stopped, or, as I suspect, delayed.

I think with you that the reason for the change is that door-to-door
delivery is getting very costly to offer due to the lowered usage. I'm
not affected - I moved a couple of years ago to an apartment building
which, like most if not all of them, had mailboxes in a room on the main
floor since it was built. And I get very little mail anyway. It's been
largely replaced by email and online billing and banking services.

--
Cheryl

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Cheryl skrev:

>> Volume of mail has been dropping by five or six per cent a year for more
>> than a decade. I don't like to see the service eroded, but I think it
>> would be increasingly costly to maintain it at previous levels.

> Not just suburban areas, I think, but anywhere that offered door-to-door
> delivery. The community mailboxes (formerly "supermailboxes") were
> certainly being installed in all areas of St. John's before the project
> was stopped, or, as I suspect, delayed.

We still have door-to-door delivery. Letters have become very
rare indeed, but parcels are growing in numbers with
netshopping. We also have the option of having mail delivered to
a central place where it can be placed in locked boxes
requiring two pin-codes sent in an sms to unlock, or it can be
stored for the personnel (in a supermarket) to hand out. I
choose whichever is cheapest.

> I think with you that the reason for the change is that door-to-door
> delivery is getting very costly to offer due to the lowered usage. I'm
> not affected - I moved a couple of years ago to an apartment building
> which, like most if not all of them, had mailboxes in a room on the main
> floor since it was built.

That is mandatory in Denmark since 2015, and mailboxes at
individual houses must be placed at the entrance to the
garden. Old or handicapped people may apply for an exception.

[Unknown]

Peter Moylan wrote:

> On 2016-Jan-25 00:33, Django Cat wrote:
>
> > Spending a penny at Manchester Piccadilly station these days will
> > cost you 30p. I'm fairly certain at Euston it's half a dollar.
>
> Was there ever a time when you could go for a p?

I'm sure as a sprog in the 60s I remember it cost a big copper penny to
get in the cubicles (stalls). The urinals were free. This meant (for
guys anyway), having a pee was free, but number twos cost a penny - 1d.

Hence the often-seen graffito 'here I sit, broken hearted, paid a penny
and only farted'.

These days at stations you pay 30 - 50p at a turnstyle before you even
get into the facilities. So it costs at least 30p even if you only want
to take a pee.


DC, successfully lowering the tone since 2002.

--

[Janet]

In article <n83s50$gd6$1...@dont-email.me>, pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid
says...

>
> On 2016-Jan-25 00:33, Django Cat wrote:
>
> > Spending a penny at Manchester Piccadilly station these days will cost
> > you 30p. I'm fairly certain at Euston it's half a dollar.
>
> Was there ever a time when you could go for a p?

Yes, in my youth. Public toilets were accessed by putting a penny in a
slot in the door.

Janet

[Peter Moylan]

Yes, here too. But I'm wondering about the time when the UK penny was
replaced by the p.

[Janet]

In article <dgm7gu...@mid.individual.net>, acor...@imm.cnrs.fr
says...

There isn't a type of woman who looks for men in toilets. There is a
type of woman who looks for men in rural mansions, castles, or possibly
a city penthouses.

Janet

[GordonD]

Which brings to mind the joke, "If 'con' is the opposite of 'pro', what
is the opposite of 'progress'?
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

In the UK the difference between first class and second class mail is in
the speed of delivery.

The First Class service:
"Aims to deliver the next working day including Saturdays".
The Second Class service has:
"Delivery in two to three working days including Saturdays".

Both services handle letters and parcels up to 20kg in weight

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Mark Brader]

"Viv":

> Hence the often-seen graffito 'here I sit, broken hearted, paid a penny
> and only farted'.

Well, that's bowdlerized. The first and third lines are supposed to rhyme.

By the way, the "From:" lines on your postings are currently syntactically
invalid, which may stop them from reaching some sites.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Damn! Damn! Damn! Er, I mean thanks, Mark."
m...@vex.net | --Steve Ball