Commentary on The X-Files from a Prejudiced Point of View
anna_otto
Commentary from a Prejudiced Point of View
By Anna Otto
Please Note: There are spoilers within, mostly for the US fifth season.
Seeing the prevailing amount of MSR fanfiction -- but mostly after having
seen the first few episodes of the fifth season, I feel compelled to share
my growing alarm at the fate of my favorite show. I will omit here the
mythology and the investigation aspects of the X-Files in favor of
discussing the so-called "relationship."
Relationshippers, before you close this post in disgust, give it a chance.
After all, my position is not so far away from yours. I used to call myself
a shipper, and I still enjoy reading MSR, NC-17 stories included. Hey, the
first few stories I wrote could be classified as MSR, however subtle it was.
Unfortunately, I believe now that I was sadly mistaken in categorizing my
views as such, and I know that I never want to see the romance happen on the
actual show. Despite the reassurances of Chris Carter that it will not, I
am starting to think that until now, I "believed the lie."
Redux 2 was ultimately the most satisfying show I have seen after Memento
Mori and Demons last season. All the tender touches, kisses, all the
beautiful words spoken, were so believable and so relevant in this
grandiose episode. Scully was dying -- these would have been the last days
Mulder spent with her, and it was only appropriate for them both to behave
the way they did.
After seeing Detour, I became very disconcerted. A faintly injured Mulder
nuzzling in Scully’s lap while she was singing for him? I know that most
people loved this episode, but I was watching horrified, seeing all the
gratuitous, unnecessary displays of affection, worry, and schlock portrayed
there. Where is the subtlety of Pusher and Paper Hearts? Where is the UST
of Syzygy and War of the Coprophages? Where is the genuine heartache and
longing of One Breath and The Blessing Way? I could continue with the
examples of the previous episodes that touched my heart in a way Detour
never could.
I was literally screaming at the end of The Post-Modern Prometheus. That
dance just about killed me, if Cher’s music couldn’t finish me off before.
Normally, I would say that a dance is an innocent pastime, but the way
Mulder and Scully were soulfully gazing at each other at that moment...
oh, how shall I put it... they were ready to get in on right then and
there. I only talked myself into watching the next episode after I decided
that the concert/dance ending we have seen was an alternate ending that
hasn’t actually happened. If anyone persuades me otherwise, they would be
doing me a great disservice.
I noticed that the displays of affection were toned down since then, in
Christmas Carol, Emily, and Kitsunegary. I am not going to discuss
Schizogeny since it was such a horrible episode, worse than El Mundo Gira,
and it was hard to top that one. While I am thankful for toning down, I
keep remembering the promise of The Movie: a kiss. An actual kiss between
Mulder and Scully, that will probably have me passing out in the movie
theater, not from pleasure but from sheer terror. Yes, yes, I know, if I
don’t want to see it, I shouldn’t go.
How do I perceive the Mulder/Scully relationship? As a most incredible,
rich, committed friendship I have ever seen portrayed on the TV screen,
and certainly in real life. In fact, friendship is a word too small to
characterize it. The fact that these two amazing people are not involved
romantically only enhances the depth and the sheer magnitude of their
affinity. To say that all Mulder and Scully have done for each other over
the years simply because they loved each other undermines their characters.
To love is trivial. I like to believe that however fallible and
all-too-human our heroes may be, they are also not mere mortals. Which
is why I do not want to see their alliance reduced to the simplicity of
sex, marriage, and such.
This is my penny donation to the box of anti-shipper commentaries on
The X-Files. Considering the amount of reviews written from an opposite
point of view, I felt that I should contribute to the side of apparent
minority. However, I will rush to proclaim that this post is not directed
against any kind of fanfiction, and that I still love reading MSR as well
as non-MSR stories.
Do feel free to challenge my views!
Anna...@hotmail.com
Kipler
Anna says...
<<Do feel free to challenge my views! >>
OK, I will! :D
<< Despite the reassurances of Chris Carter that it will not, I
am starting to think that until now, I "believed the lie." >>
Well, Chris Carter hasn't reassured anyone about that for quite some time, now.
And he * was* quoted, early on, as saying something like, "If the show runs
five or six seasons, anything could happen." So I don't think that technically
he can be called a "liar." More of a "change-of-minder," maybe.
But I think he's most probably someone whose show has lived a lot longer than
he originally imagined it would, and whose characters have gone in directions
he never foresaw. CC played around with some UST and teasing (back in his
"they'll never get together" days), but what developed over time was an amazing
portrayal of trust, interdependence and devotion. How much of that is the
responsibility of CC, and how much it is the work of other writers, directors
or DD and GA is hard to tease out.
<< To love is trivial. >>
Ah, I believe that to love is the most profound, far-reaching thing any human
being can do. And whether you call it sibling-like love, or partnerly love,
or platonic love, there is love and devotion between Mulder and Scully. Rather
than trivializing things, I believe that their love elevates their lives.
--Kipler
mke...@universe.digex.net
In article <69rmpu$d...@drn.zippo.com>,
Anna Otto wrote:
>
> How do I perceive the Mulder/Scully relationship? As a most incredible,
> rich, committed friendship I have ever seen portrayed on the TV screen,
> and certainly in real life. In fact, friendship is a word too small to
> characterize it. The fact that these two amazing people are not involved
> romantically only enhances the depth and the sheer magnitude of their
> affinity. To say that all Mulder and Scully have done for each other over
> the years simply because they loved each other undermines their characters.
> To love is trivial.
>
To love is also ephemeral. The frequency with which romance is
pushed as the solution to male-female problems by the popular
media (I'm speaking in general, here, not in specific) horrifies
me. With marriages lasting seven years, on average, a life-long
friendship, while a different animal altogether, seems almost
preferable at times.
>
> I like to believe that however fallible and all-too-human our
> heroes may be, they are also not mere mortals. Which is why I do
> not want to see their alliance reduced to the simplicity of
> sex, marriage, and such.
>
Thank you for saying this. The relationship Mulder and Scully have (or
had in the First and Second Seasons) is one few people ever share with
more than one person in their lives (if he or she is truly fortunate).
I've always thought it was something to be celebrated, not something
that needs to be rushed through to get to the sex.
>
> This is my penny donation to the box of anti-shipper commentaries on
> The X-Files. Considering the amount of reviews written from an opposite
> point of view, I felt that I should contribute to the side of apparent
> minority. However, I will rush to proclaim that this post is not directed
> against any kind of fanfiction, and that I still love reading MSR as well
> as non-MSR stories.
>
While MSR's will never be my first choice in fan-fiction reading
material, to each his or her own. The Net's the Wild West, so there
ought to be room for everyone's viewpoint to find expression, 'shipper
and NoRoMo included.
Mary
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
laura capozzola
Anna, Otto wrote:
>
> Commentary from a Prejudiced Point of View
> By Anna Otto
<snipped post just to keep length down>
People who like Chris Carter have different reasons for it. I see him,
and admire him, as a very very smart tactician who has a good grasp of
what fandom is all about. I sincerely believe he was, and maybe still
is, a fan with fan-like reactions...and a game player. Normally I
refer to him as a big tease but that would not be giving him enough
credit. I think his success over other creative types with the same
creative talent is that he knows how to play fans by giving them a
little of what they want, then pulling it back. My opinion is that
getting people excited is a good thing for a TV show. I don't think it
matters if that excitement gets people angry, makes people happy or just
makes them nuts. He's taking us on a rollercoaster ride and we're
screaming, laughing and crying. We're not getting off because we don't
know what's coming next but we're damn sure we don't want to miss it. I
put in a fanfic that Season 5 would be foreplay for the movie. I still
believe that. The attempt will be to get us all hot and bothered,
teasing us, taunting us, dropping little clues, giving us a little of
what we want then pulling things back. I think it's a pretty clever
strategy.
To ship or not to ship jerks everyone's chains. It seems like every
phile has an opinion about it one way or another. It's perfect teasing
fodder for the master tactician. For playing the shipper card so
diabolically in Season 5, I have to salute him.
Laura
#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#
"The truth, the truth.....there is no truth.
These men just make it up as they go along."
- Alex Krycek (Tunguska) -
#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#***#
Karen Rasch
Anna Otto wrote:
>Commentary from a Prejudiced Point of View
>By Anna Otto
>After seeing Detour, I became very disconcerted. A faintly injured Mulder
>nuzzling in Scully’s lap while she was singing for him? Where is the UST
>of Syzygy and War of the Coprophages?
Interesting that you contrast "Detour" with "Syzygy" and "War of C,"
as to my way of thinking these are two of the eps this latest most
closely resembles. However, I must admit that while fond of "War of
C" and to a lesser degree "Detour" (my problem not being with the M &
S UST but the lame-o villains), I =still= loathe "Syzygy" (one weary
flop against a wall does not a good ep make <g>).
>I was literally screaming at the end of The Post-Modern Prometheus. That
>dance just about killed me, if Cher’s music couldn’t finish me off before.
>Normally, I would say that a dance is an innocent pastime, but the way
>Mulder and Scully were soulfully gazing at each other at that moment...
>oh, how shall I put it... they were ready to get in on right then and
>there.
Again, I'm intrigued by your reaction. I didn't really see "sexual
attraction" so much as happiness. I'll admit, the scene I most
enjoyed was its final one. However, not for the reasons you might
think. Sure it was a thrill to see M & S in each others arms. But, I
was surprised by how moved I was just to see them =happy=. Truly
happy. It's been so long since we've seen them not only healthy, but
triumphant, if you will, that I watched their little slow dance
through blurred eyes.
But then I cry at long-distance phone commercials--so whaddya gonna
do? <bg>
> I
>keep remembering the promise of The Movie: a kiss. An actual kiss between
>Mulder and Scully, that will probably have me passing out in the movie
>theater, not from pleasure but from sheer terror.
>How do I perceive the Mulder/Scully relationship? As a most incredible,
>rich, committed friendship I have ever seen portrayed on the TV screen,
>and certainly in real life. In fact, friendship is a word too small to
>characterize it. The fact that these two amazing people are not involved
>romantically only enhances the depth and the sheer magnitude of their
>affinity. To say that all Mulder and Scully have done for each other over
>the years simply because they loved each other undermines their characters.
>To love is trivial.
I'm not trying to be combative here, Anna. Really, I'm not. It's
just that while I had been following your reasoning to this point, you
lose me with the above section. Did you really mean to use the word
"love" in this instance? Because, as both 'shippers and noromos will
tell you, that word can be used in any number of ways. In fact, in
all my years on the net reading the various arguments for and against
the dreaded *Relationship*, the one thing most folks seem to agree
upon is that M & S do indeed love one another. It's just a question
of the sort of love involved. Bottom line, I can't see how "To love
is trivial." Given what we all go through day-to-day, I think the
very best we can hope for is to love each other; to be decent and
kind, and treat each other with respect . Otherwise, why bother?
I know, I know. Any minute now I'll be leading you all in a chorus of
Kumbaya. <g>
> I like to believe that however fallible and
>all-too-human our heroes may be, they are also not mere mortals. Which
>is why I do not want to see their alliance reduced to the simplicity of
>sex, marriage, and such.
This is why I believe you might have perhaps mis-spoken above. (Yes,
Anna, now I can read your mind! <bg>) If you mean "love" in the
romantic sense, then I can better understand how you formulated your
conclusion. It doesn't really differ all that much from similiar
noromo arguments in the past. It's the "why cheapen what they've got
thus reducing the show to the level of its competition" stance. And
believe it or not, avowed 'shipper that I am, I can see why that view
is attractive. Because, even though my fanfic has been guilty of the
*occasional* romp in the hay (on the bed, against the wall, on the
couch, etc. <g>), I would have to say that for me, sex is really
beside the point when you're talking about M & S. You're right. What
they have =is= bigger than that. But I can't help it. I'm still
intrigued by the notion.
Here's why.
For me, it boils down to a question of whether I choose to look at
these two characters as "real people" or as archetypes/mythical heroes
with little connection to the mundane. Lots of folks have kicked
around the idea of Mulder as the latter, as a hero a la the Joseph
Campbell model, on a quest that will either destroy or transform him.
That's fine. I like that interpretation actually. It gives you a lot
to chew on and makes even the most common episodes more interesting to
analyze.
But for me, over four and a half years time, M & S have become real
(Put away that nice white jacket with the really long arms--despite
this essay, I do know the difference reality and fantasy. <g>). As
played by DD and GA, they are fascinating, flawed individuals
struggling to make sense of their lives and their universe. They have
been beaten and lied to and tested time and again. And I--sap that I
am--would like them to be happy. =Without= Cher playing in the
background. <g> So that, as much as anything, fuels my desire to see
the relationship develop into the physical realm.
Can you be happy without a significant other? =Of course= you can.
Believe me, I'm not dating anyone at the moment, and I don't sit
around crying into my coffee at night. But I have also never met
anyone who understood me, supported me, would kill and die for me as
our heroes have.
All the other pieces are in place. So, in the end, what harm is there
in a little kiss?
Karen
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Karen Rasch
kra...@earthlink.net
home.earthlink.net/~krasch
"Seven plays from Aeschylus, seven from Sophocles, nineteen from Euripides, my
lady! You should no more grieve for the rest than for a buckle lost from your first
shoe, or for your lesson book which will be lost when you are old. We shed as
we pick up, like travellers who must carry everything in their arms, and what we let
fall will be picked up by those behind. The procession is very long and life is very
short. We die on the march. But there is nothing outside the march so nothing can
be lost to it."
Tom Stoppard, "Arcadia"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
bl...@dtc.net
> seen the first few episodes of the fifth season, I feel compelled to share
> my growing alarm at the fate of my favorite show. I will omit here the
> mythology and the investigation aspects of the X-Files in favor of
> discussing the so-called "relationship."
>
I find your post interesting, Anna, because it reflects the growing
concern of a lot of posts I have seen on the official web site. From
people who describe themselves as 'shippers or quasi-shippers. Several
have posted in disgust, noting that Carter appears to think they're
stupid, bemoaning the lack of a subtle and continuing development toward
greater intimacy in facvor of what you refer to as schlock. Throwing
'shippers a bone, as it were, without ever taking them anywhere. We know
that they are supposed to kiss in the movie, so we must assume that in
Carter's hamhanded way, he's leading them to that point.
I have been identified as a no-romo, I think, but the simple fact is that
I have no objection to Carter's allowing the characters to grow toward
intimacy, whether it blossoms into what I would call a romantic
relationship. I feel strongly, however, that the show is not about their
relationship, and that one of the problems with Season 5 is that it's
degenerating into a soap opera, albeit one without the cleverness and
camp of Night Stalker (Carter's purported inspiration) or the glitz and
sheen of, say, Dynasty. Carter and his production crew have emasculated
Mulder, turning him into an unethical thug who shoots a DoD spy in the
temple (an execution shot, people, read your police forensics) and then
blows his face off. Who beats up a doctor and kicks him when the man is
lying on the floor. Who is so credulous that he doesn't even stick a
fork in his purported sister to see if she bleeds green when CSM brings
her to the diner. This isn't the character I found appealing. And let's
talk about Scully, who I adored the first three seasons. She was
marvelous. Intelligent and strong and tough enough to take an NSA agent
hostage to trade for her partner. Tough enough to save herself in
Irresistable. Now, she's lost all that, she turns herself over to a
doctor on the recommendation of a woman she once thought was crazy, to
tamely lie still and wait for someone else to save her. We got a flash
of the old Scully in Detour, which was my primary reason for liking it, I
didn't even mind the Mulder hurt/nurture in the forest, and genuinely
thought Scully's singing off key was hilarious. It was just a flash of
who she used to be, but it was good. The rest of the time, she's
two-dimensional, the knee-jerk materialist who consistently treats Mulder
like he's a brain damaged child. One self-identified 'shipper on the Web
site used that phrase exactly, bemoaning what the writers have done to
Scully. But I'm not sure the performers aren't to blame. Duchovny
reportedly decided that 4th Season Mulder was just lame, and wanted
Mulder to have an edge. GA obviously is preparing for her next Emmy,
with those looks from under her hair style, that contemptuous twitch of
her mouth, and all those other little tics she's developed. I saw Beyond
the Sea last night and was struck again by where she's gone from that
delightful, natural character who storms into Luther Boggs' cell and
tells him she's going to pull the switch to gas him out of this life if
her partner dies. *That* was acting.
I know they're probably exhausted. They've worked non-stop since the
beginning of Season 4 on the same product.
The second problem, other than the performers, is that Carter evidently
wrote the movie before any of Season 5's scripts were written. That's
called writing yourself into a box, gang. Thus, he eviscerated the
original script of Schizogeny. (Don't ask how I know, I can't tell you.)
He's fired most of his writers. He's got to string the season along
with just enough meat to the stories to drag us to the movie. So, no
matter what other story is being told, it has to have cryptic little bits
designed to set the movie framework up.
Which means that despite the fact that the writers are producing a Scully
I don't even like any more, a Scully I can almost not watch on the
screen, so far is she from the original characterization--not growth,
regression, in my opinion--and despite the fact that Mulder--bright,
slightly cracked genius who nonetheless had warmth and was appealing--has
turned into an amoral thug, they have to build in little bits designed to
lead us to the relationship thing that might or might not be happening in
the movie.
And it's a shame. I do not care much for MSR, because I think most of it
is written according to typical Harlequin formula, boy meets girl,
artificial obstacle arises between boy and girl, boy gets girl, boy loses
girl, and so on. But the depth and warmth of the Mulder/Scully
relationship--at least up to Season 3--was undeniable, and a pleasure to
have in the background of their search for the truth. It was believable
to have Scully backing him, to continue to argue with him over what they
saw, what they had to face, because despite her materialism, the rich
texture of respect, trust and affection was there. It was believable. I
didn't particularly care whether it became a romance, because it was
clear that they had a relationship, as Duchovny has said. A good one.
And then, during Season 4, the toomah appeared. Became the focus of the
show. Everything revolved around Scully's cancer. What could have been a
time for Scully to show courage and burn brightly turned into an Emmy
fest rife with cheap sentimentality instead of real emotion.
My personal take, Anna, which is admittedly just that, and not the voice
of authority, is that Morgan & Wong & Morgan & Gordon were the only ones
who really knew and liked these characters, who understood why they
worked and really appealed to all of us on so many different levels.
Carter, I think, never understood what Morgan & Wong & Morgan & Howard
had done with them. I think the only one in that pack of havajackals who
did was Vince Gilligan. And his scripts are being eviscerated by Spotban
and Shibnitz. Or is it Spotniz and Shiban? I always confuse the two of
them, they're almost interchangeable. Anyway, pray for Vince Gilligan,
that's all I can say. He's the only one who manages to bring out the
subtle and delicate nuances of that relationship, even now, when both
characters are essentially decayed. With enough prayer, maybe he can get
the show and the characters back on course. Show growth that would lead
naturally to an increase in intimacy instead of snuggles and cuddles and
cheap sentimentality.
For the record, I am neither a 'shipper or no-romo. True, I tend to read
more no-romo fanfic than romo. As I've said on my picks page, I dislike
formulaic romance because of the disrespect I think it shows both men and
women. I do like adult relationship stories, and remember, Mulder and
Scully aren't spring chickens any more. I really don't have an objection
to the relationship deepening in the show, so long as it doesn't become
J. Edgar Hoover Place 20009. Which is where they're leading us. And to
top it off, the latest rumor I've heard is that Skinner is going to have
"a delicious liaison" (courtesy of Frank Shinitz. Or is it Spotnitz?)
with Marita. And she's going to get snuffed by Krycek, whereupon our
honorable ex-marine is going to execute Krycek. Am I the only one to
bewail the fact that these characters are slowly being stripped of any
moral or ethical qualities? Is the X Files audience really accepting
this as natural, the loss of belief and moral values under the
application of stress? Is this the standard of belief in our culture?
Somebody, please assure me otherwise. Please assure me that someone else
is wondering what the heck is going on?
>
> How do I perceive the Mulder/Scully relationship? As a most incredible,
> rich, committed friendship I have ever seen portrayed on the TV screen,
> and certainly in real life. In fact, friendship is a word too small to
> characterize it. The fact that these two amazing people are not involved
> romantically only enhances the depth and the sheer magnitude of their
> affinity. To say that all Mulder and Scully have done for each other over
> the years simply because they loved each other undermines their characters.
> To love is trivial. I like to believe that however fallible and
> all-too-human our heroes may be, they are also not mere mortals. Which
> is why I do not want to see their alliance reduced to the simplicity of
> sex, marriage, and such.
>
I don't think Anna is saying that love itself is trivial, I think she's
saying that ascribing their acts of courage and sacrifice to romance is
to trivialize them. I could be misreading, so correct me, Anna, if I'm
wrong.
>
And I agree. To write off all works of art, of courage, of sacrifice, of
grandeur to romance is incredibly simplistic. It demeans them. Sure,
passion inspires many things, and among them works of art, works of
literature, the whole shebang. But passionate love is not romance, in my
book. Romance is fluff, sacrificial love requires depth. Semantics?
Maybe. We've argued this before.
no-netsca...@mtholyoke.edu
bl...@dtc.net wrote:
>
>I have been identified as a no-romo, I think, but the simple fact is that
>I have no objection to Carter's allowing the characters to grow toward
>intimacy, whether it blossoms into what I would call a romantic
>relationship. I feel strongly, however, that the show is not about their
>relationship, and that one of the problems with Season 5 is that it's
>degenerating into a soap opera,
Personally, I am unable to find any similarities between the X-Files and a
soap opera in this season or any other season. I'm curious to know where
you are able to draw the comparison. Chris Carter has not been perfect in
his development of the relationship between Mulder and Scully, but there
romance, or whatever people prefer to call it, is one of the most
tastefully done romances on television. I don't think that this season
has revolved around their relationship any more than the other seasons
have. The kissing and touching we saw in Redux II was only evidence of
how their relationship has progressed since, say, Scully's return after
her abduction. It's not as if every week we are being bombarded with any
more kissing, touching, or lingering looks than usual. The Conversation
on the Log in Detour may have been a welcome scene for shippers, but it
all revolved around the case they were working on and the condition of
Mulder's health. I don't think that Mulder's head would have ended up in
Scully's lap if she hadn't been worried about him staying warm. The final
scene in Post-Modern Prometheus was great, but it wasn't exactly riddled
with UST. As someone else posted, it was good to see them happy more than
anything else. The other four episodes that have been shown this season,
all though good episodes for the most part, have been almost frustrating
in their *lack* of any hint as to how recent events are affecting their
relationship.
Carter and his production crew have emasculated
>Mulder, turning him into an unethical thug who shoots a DoD spy in the
>temple (an execution shot, people, read your police forensics) and then
>blows his face off. Who beats up a doctor and kicks him when the man is
>lying on the floor. Who is so credulous that he doesn't even stick a
>fork in his purported sister to see if she bleeds green when CSM brings
>her to the diner. This isn't the character I found appealing.
I don't that there has been a significant change in Mulder's moral
character. As far him shooting the spy in his apartment, it's not as if
the killing was pre-meditated. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't
the spy have a gun, too? I saw it as a simple case of self-defense.
Mulder just happened to be close enough to shoot the guy in the head. The
scene in Emily, where Mulder kicks the doctor while he's down, made me a
little uneasy, not because I thought he was being particularly mean, but
just because I never pictured Mulder beating anyone up. (It always seems
to be the other way around) I chalked up his sudden urge to beat
something or someone to his frustration with the whole situation. Scully
was just recovering from her cancer and another tragedy was about to
unfold. I don't understand why anyone would be surprised at Mulder's
ability to believe that the woman CSM brought to the diner was Samantha.
Mulder's willingness to believe what he wants to be true has been part of
his personality since the show began.
And let's
>talk about Scully, who I adored the first three seasons. She was
>marvelous. Intelligent and strong and tough enough to take an NSA agent
>hostage to trade for her partner. Tough enough to save herself in
>Irresistable. Now, she's lost all that, she turns herself over to a
>doctor on the recommendation of a woman she once thought was crazy, to
>tamely lie still and wait for someone else to save her. We got a flash
>of the old Scully in Detour, which was my primary reason for liking it, I
>didn't even mind the Mulder hurt/nurture in the forest, and genuinely
>thought Scully's singing off key was hilarious. It was just a flash of
>who she used to be, but it was good. The rest of the time, she's
>two-dimensional, the knee-jerk materialist who consistently treats Mulder
>like he's a brain damaged child.
Not that I don't think that Scully could still hold an NSA agent hostage,
but she's gone through a lot since then. I think that anyone who has been
abducted for three months, lost a sister who was shot in her place, given
cancer, and been deprived of her ability to bear children- all within the
last five years- would have quite the battered spirit by now. I'm
surprised Scully's still standing. I think that alone shows how much
strength she has. What was wrong with Scully wanting to have the normal
treatments for cancer? She didn't know where the cancer came from or who
made it. Neither she or Mulder knew where to start in the search for a
cure. As for as she knew, Dr. Scanlon was as close as anyone else to
finding it. She may have thought that Penny was crazy before, but just
the fact that she had cancer proved that there was something to what the
women in Allentown had said to her. Scully fought the cancer the best way
she knew how- with the weapons that science had provided. Is that lying
tamely still? To me, it's fighting with everything you've got at the
moment.
GA obviously is preparing for her next Emmy,
>with those looks from under her hair style, that contemptuous twitch of
>her mouth, and all those other little tics she's developed. I saw Beyond
>the Sea last night and was struck again by where she's gone from that
>delightful, natural character who storms into Luther Boggs' cell and
>tells him she's going to pull the switch to gas him out of this life if
>her partner dies. *That* was acting.
That *was* acting in Beyond the Sea, but GA's performances this season,
especially in Redux I/II and Christmas Carol/Emily have been just as
great. For a long time after Beyond the Sea, we rarely got to see GA
perform as well. I think that seasons 4 and 5 have given her the
opportunity to show off her acting ability and she has *not* let us
down. She's a great actress and will hopefully continue to grow. Of
course, that's all my opinion. (I am a self-declared Scullyist and a big
time GA fan so I could be biased in my opinion....but I don't think so)
>Which means that despite the fact that the writers are producing a Scully
>I don't even like any more, a Scully I can almost not watch on the
>screen, so far is she from the original characterization--not growth,
>regression, in my opinion
How is she different from her original characterization? She's still the
intelligent, science-grounded, emotionally detatched woman with the
occasional ability to kick butt that I've seen in previous seasons. Like
I said before, she's lived through more, but the events haven't altered
her character to the point that she isn't recognizable as the same person
she used to be.
--and despite the fact that Mulder--bright,
>slightly cracked genius who nonetheless had warmth and was appealing--has
>turned into an amoral thug, they have to build in little bits designed to
>lead us to the relationship thing that might or might not be happening in
>the movie.
Not that I see much change in their characters, but if they *are*
changing, I don't see what any of it has to do with the build up to the
alleged kiss in the movie. If they kiss, it will have nothing to do with
Mulder being, as you call him, an "amoral thug" or Scully being a
"knee-jerk materialist."
But the depth and warmth of the Mulder/Scully
>relationship--at least up to Season 3--was undeniable, and a pleasure to
>have in the background of their search for the truth. It was believable
>to have Scully backing him, to continue to argue with him over what they
>saw, what they had to face, because despite her materialism, the rich
>texture of respect, trust and affection was there. It was believable. I
>didn't particularly care whether it became a romance, because it was
>clear that they had a relationship, as Duchovny has said. A good one.
>And then, during Season 4, the toomah appeared. Became the focus of the
>show. Everything revolved around Scully's cancer. What could have been a
>time for Scully to show courage and burn brightly turned into an Emmy
>fest rife with cheap sentimentality instead of real emotion.
It is still clear to me that there is a good relationship behind Mulder
and Scully's partnership in the X-Files. I don't agree that the tumor
became the main focus of the show. In some episodes, it wasn't even
mentioned. I agree that it *did* change Mulder and Scully's relationship,
as fatal illnesses are prone to do. It put them on the same emotional
roller-coaster that normal people are forced to ride. And yes, Mulder and
Scully *are* normal human beings. They may try to hide their emotions,
but they still exist. What makes you think that Scully didn't show
courage? How, in your opinion, was she supposed to do that? Was she
*not* supposed to cry, not even by herself? Was it cheap of her to, in
her belief that she was going to die, try to convey her feelings for
Mulder in a way that would comfort him after she was gone? Was Mulder
*not* supposed to try to comfort Scully with the hope and passion we saw
at the end of Memento Mori? Is that "cheap sentimentality?" If it is,
then there are a whole bunch of cheap sentimentalists walking this earth.
Show growth that would lead
>naturally to an increase in intimacy instead of snuggles and cuddles and
>cheap sentimentality
Sometimes intimacy does include snuggling and cuddling, not that I've seen
much of that on the X-Files yet.
**********************
The victory belongs to love!
-Daniel Ortega
Sandra Peacock
Karen Rasch wrote:
> Anna Otto wrote:
>
snip of excellent rebuttal by Karen
> >How do I perceive the Mulder/Scully relationship? As a most
> incredible,
> >rich, committed friendship I have ever seen portrayed on the TV
> screen,
> >and certainly in real life. In fact, friendship is a word too small
> to
> >characterize it. The fact that these two amazing people are not
> involved
> >romantically only enhances the depth and the sheer magnitude of their
>
> >affinity. To say that all Mulder and Scully have done for each other
> over
> >the years simply because they loved each other undermines their
> characters.
> >To love is trivial.
>
> snip
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
IMO, Karen points out what I see as a major flaw in the romo/no-romo
argument: are M and S archetypes or real life characters? In all my
admittedly mostly limited to "dead white European heterosexual male"
literature, I cannot think of, off the top of my head, *any*
relationship such as M and S have that did not lead into sex.
Brother-sister relationships occasionally will have that depth of
platonic love for each other. But otherwise IIRC those who care for
each other enough to take bullets and go to jail for each other
generally do have a sexual relationship even if it later becomes their
downfall. As archetypes then, a sexual relationship would be natural
progression for their learning of themselves and the world.
Heloise and Abelard--real life characters but too grisly to be detailed
on my currently empty stomach. Orpheus and Euridyce--into the depths of
hell. Cathy and Heathcliff--wandering the moors forever (sorry, didn't
mean to let any dead females WASPs in but I needed a quick third
example.) I feel sure I will now learn all about history's platonic
great loves who remained only life-long buddies.
In real life though, great buddies oftentimes make great marriage
partners. Couples celebrating their 75th anniversary always seem to be
saying they are each other's best friends and, if they made it through
the Depression, they can make it through anything.
The common real life counter argument of male-female platonic co-workers
doesn't hold true IMO because Mulder and Scully just are not your garden
variety co-workers and trying to generalize them into such doesn't work
for me. Your average stockbroker isn't shooting guns at her office
mate, has a wide circle of everyday co-workers and is usually greatly
admired for having intuitive leaps that constantly prove true. I have
similar difficulties with the "cops who are partners" argument; the
number of opposite sex, isolated, and ever-in-danger partnerships is too
low for any non-antedoctal data to be valid.
Now, all of this assumes that Mulder and Scully *do* *both* love each
other--not that Mulder loves Scully but she only likes him. I've
occasionally thought that certain moments weren't shippy but rather
maternal, particularly the hair ruffle at the end of Paper Hearts.
Also, it assumes they must continue in the quest to bring down the
Conspiracy. This quest is a major reason for their all engulfing,
isolating dangerous pursuits. If the Conspiracy is brought down or if
they chose to no longer go after it, then all bets are off in my head. I
could then quite reasonably see M and S as just good buddies if their
mutually dependent relationship lessened. Any stock boyfriend could
have fought off Eugene Tooms but only Scully could have held off a
Congressional investigation. Ever notice how most of the best MSR
married has somehow resolved or else doesn't even mention the Conspiracy
issue? Now this may make for some very good reading but it does limit M
and S's growth as archetypes.
Which brings up back to the issue of are M and S archetypal or real life
characters?
Only the Carter knows for sure...and he's making it up as he goes along.
--san
who had some free time on her hands today otherwise she would have kept
quietly lurking
Pamela T. Pon
Emasculated? Wouldn't that turn him into Wimp!Mulder rather than
Thug!Mulder? Thug!Mulder sounds more like the result of the opposite of
emasculation ... machofication? Testosteronization? ;-)
>turning him into an unethical thug who shoots a DoD spy in the
>temple (an execution shot, people, read your police forensics) and then
>blows his face off. Who beats up a doctor and kicks him when the man is
>lying on the floor. Who is so credulous that he doesn't even stick a
>fork in his purported sister to see if she bleeds green when CSM brings
>her to the diner.
I agree it's a very bad thing that he shot the DoD guy twice (I blame the
awful corner CC wrote himself into in "Gethsemane") and a mildly bad thing
that he beat up the doctor who was withholding a dying patient's medical
records because of his company's financial investment in her illness.
But IMHO, it would also have been rather bad to stick a fork in
someone (no matter what her identity) -- after having agreed to meet her
on neutral territory in a sort of truce situation -- with NO immediate
provocation whatsoever. So what if she WERE "only" a clone? This gives
him an excuse to be violent towards her? It's OK to be a thug towards an
apparently harmless civilian, whatever her genetic makeup (for which she
herself can hardly be held accountable) -- but not towards a shotgun-waving
enemy soldier or an Evil Scientist [TM] holding a patient's life hostage?
Even if she is "just" a clone, she *still* has no known history of ever
having harmed anyone, or any obvious intent of physically harming him
at that moment or in future. In fact, she seems reluctant to be there,
regretful of having come at all, and in a hurry to get away and NOT tell
him anything he wants to hear -- a far cry from the "Samantha" clones of
"Colony"/"Endgame" and their eagerly spouted misinformation and outright
lies of commission. *This* "Samantha" is on the retreat, not the attack --
yet he's supposed to chase after her with harmful intent? Rather rude, no?
(Never mind the fact that if she DID turn out to be a clone,
the blood from the fork wound might fatally poison him ... again. ;-)
As for Credulous!Mulder -- I saw no signs that Mulder *truly*
believed, once and for all, that this was THE Samantha. Emotionally, he
allowed himself the release of reacting *as if* she were -- but if she
had actually made any real, concrete demands of him, I think his paranoid
nature would have kicked in and prevented him from making any irrevocable
decisions without due consideration. In fact, THIS Mulder was far
LESS credulous than the Mulder of "Colony," who seemingly allowed one
ridiculously shallow reference to "Stratego" to overcome 25 years' worth
of reservations in one fell swoop. Enough to hug her, swallow her story,
follow her conveniently timely & knowledgeable instructions, and wallow in
guilt & blame for her death all over again. IMHO, Mulder could have used
a lot more suspicion in dealing with *that* Samantha. However, stabbing
even her would still have been an excessive use of force.
>The second problem, other than the performers, is that Carter evidently
>wrote the movie before any of Season 5's scripts were written. That's
>called writing yourself into a box, gang. Thus, he eviscerated the
>original script of Schizogeny. (Don't ask how I know, I can't tell you.)
You mean that "Schizogeny" was originally GOOD??!! Or, more than that,
a GOOD *mythology* episode (which I assume is the only kind of episode
that could affect the movie plot in any way)???
I find that very, VERY hard to believe. First of all, it sucked.
Secondly, it was a MOTW episode, through and through. The only way I
could see "Schizogeny" having any impact on the movie would be if it were
to have deadly serious mythological repercussions -- eg., if it had caused
Mulder to have vivid flashbacks to childhood abuse by Bill Mulder or CSM,
and/or identify the abused Karin with an abused Samantha. But even if
this were the case, how would these dubious implications have hindered the
movie any more than the believe-it-or-not, sorta-kinda-maybe-revelations
of "Paper Hearts" or "Demons"? Very little, IMHO.
(I'm not gonna ask how you know, but I'm genuinely curious: could
you possibly elaborate a little on what exactly it is that you DO know
about the evisceration of "Schizogeny"? Does it have something to do with
what we glimpsed in the closed-captions for Mulder's final voiceover?
Because what little we saw there did not seem particularly promising.
In fact, in it Mulder condoned the murder of a former child-abuse
victim as a solution for dealing with her current mental instability.
Seems rather thuggish, to me ...)
> He's fired most of his writers. He's got to string the season along
>with just enough meat to the stories to drag us to the movie. So, no
>matter what other story is being told, it has to have cryptic little bits
>designed to set the movie framework up.
Hmmm. So far I've seen these cryptic little bits in "Redux," "Redux II,"
and "Emily." (To me, "Christmas Carol" seemed much more like an emotional
character study than an information-packed mythology teaser.) That's only
3 episodes out of 9 that might have implications for the movie. How does
that make this season different from any other that has had roughly 6-7
mythology episodes out of 24, often veering off on wild tangents involving
oil slicks and beeeeezzzzzz? *Every* season has had filler episodes and
good or bad MOTW episodes. Some people watch just for the good MOTW eps,
not caring about the mythology at all. How are *they* being strung along?
[Re: Mulder turning into a ...]
>slightly cracked genius who nonetheless had warmth and was appealing--has
>turned into an amoral thug, they have to build in little bits designed to
>lead us to the relationship thing that might or might not be happening in
>the movie.
So *every* single* instance of sub-par writing in season 5 can be wholly
attributed to the oh-so-reliable tabloid rumours of a supposed abortive
"kiss" in the movie??? A kiss that never even *happens* because the *girl*
gets stung by a bee *just in time*, thus sparing X-Philes worldwide the
excruciating torture of seeing a yucky cootie-swapping lovey-dovey moment
in an otherwise wholesome Action!packed explosion-laden girlz-are-yucky
sci-fi/horror/adventure flick?
How then to explain the amoral thug moments that Mulder has
experienced in previous seasons *before* the movie was written, such as
his punching-bag routine in "Tunguska," his prison-rape threats in "Terma"
(and even in *Darin Morgan's* "Jose Chung"), and his flirtation with police
brutality in "Paper Hearts"? At least three of these were good or even
excellent episodes, *despite* his questionable thug-like actions. It would
seem that this regrettable behaviour is just one of the uglier flaws in his
personality -- but an understandable one, given his personal history and
the ugliness that he must have seen while profiling in VCU. He's still a
far cry from turning into another Bill Patterson, thank God. Except for
the shooting of the DoD dude (which I attribute to "Gethsemane"'s writing,
not the movie's), I don't think less of Mulder for these human lapses,
any more than I thought less of Mike Logan for clicking the safety off of
his service weapon to extract a "Confession" out of his partner's murderer
on LAW & ORDER. He's fallible. (And he seems to enjoy providing the slash
writers ample fodder to work with, in terms of homoerotic overtones ... ;-)
>And then, during Season 4, the toomah appeared.
Well, to be fair, hadn't many fans been railing about the show's failure
to follow up on the foreshadowings of the Allentown women's cancer and
Mulder's "But you're OK, aren't you, Scully" brush-off of season 3?
Ignoring that development would have been a serious blow to the second
most important thread of continuity in the series: ie. Scully's abduction
(Samantha being the first thread). Whether or not one thinks the issue
was handled well when it finally arose, if it hadn't arisen at all,
one would have wondered why they ever bothered giving Scully an implant
and gratuitously killing off Betsy Hagopian in the first place.
>Became the focus of the show.
Yup, NOT AT ALL like that minor Samantha incident which has had SO LITTLE
impact on Mulder's life up until this point. But of course, the abduction
of Mulder's sister to control his father's behaviour 25 years ago is SO
much more important than the abduction of Mulder's partner to control HIS
behaviour right NOW. Heaven forbid that SCULLY should have a personal
stake in THE X-FILES. They're *Mulder's* baby, after all. She was just
assigned to them.
>Everything revolved around Scully's cancer.
No, actually it seemed more like they dropped the ball and ignored her
cancer completely for the rest of season 4, except for a decorative
nosebleed here & there.
>What could have been a
>time for Scully to show courage and burn brightly turned into an Emmy
>fest rife with cheap sentimentality instead of real emotion.
I agree that they could have done a LOT more with this storyline,
especially if they'd given Scully a more pro-active kickass role in the
matter. But nooooooo, instead we got "WHICH ONE OF THESE MEN WILL SAVE
THIS WOMAN???!!!" Bleagh.
>Morgan & Wong & Morgan & Gordon were the only ones
>who really knew and liked these characters, who understood why they
>worked and really appealed to all of us on so many different levels.
On the other hand, Gordon also seemed to be the only writer besides
Spotnitz who liked cardboard standee *Marita*, to the extent of forcing
her less-than-helpful presence into MOTWs like "Teliko" where she served
no purpose ...
>to top it off, the latest rumor I've heard is that Skinner is going to
>have "a delicious liaison" [...] with Marita. And she's going to get
>snuffed by Krycek, whereupon our honorable ex-marine is going to execute
>Krycek. Am I the only one to bewail the fact that these characters are
>slowly being stripped of any moral or ethical qualities?
Absolutely not. I agree that the above plotline is utterly disgusting!
Suddenly killing Krycek in a fit of jealous rage over a woman he barely
knows (except perhaps in the Biblical sense) when all Skinner has done
up until now is sucker-punch him *once* in return for 3 or 4 murders,
accessory to kidnapping a federal agent, violating his oath, betraying
his badge, and gang-beating his superior in a stairwell? I don't THINK so.
If Spotnitz thinks that *this* "delicious liaison" will be one that
"makes [us] happy," let alone be one that anyone "wants," he'd be better
employed on Joan River's FASHION REVIEW shows ... >;-)
>I don't think Anna is saying that love itself is trivial, I think she's
>saying that ascribing their acts of courage and sacrifice to romance is
>to trivialize them. [...]
>And I agree. To write off all works of art, of courage, of sacrifice, of
>grandeur to romance is incredibly simplistic. It demeans them. Sure,
>passion inspires many things, and among them works of art, works of
>literature, the whole shebang. But passionate love is not romance, in my
>book. Romance is fluff, sacrificial love requires depth.
I doubt that most of the more thoughtful of the viewers among us who think
that "romance" is a possibility between M&S *ascribe* any of their past or
current acts of courage & sacrifice to that romance. Rather, most seem
to think that a romance could develop in future in part *because* of the
acts of courage & sacrifice that their *friendship* & *partnership* have
*already* led them to perform. Ie., M&S haven't been repeatedly saving
each other's lives all this time *because* they're "in love" -- rather,
they may eventually "fall in love" partly because they *have* been saving
each other's lives all this time for completely NON-romantic reasons.
"Passionate" or "romantic" love would not be the *cause* of all
their years of courage and sacrifice, but the end *result* of it.
I don't think that any of us want to see passionate or romantic
love blossom AT THE EXPENSE OF the platonic "sacrificial" love that
ALREADY exists -- only IN ADDITION to it.
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