Can't find original post
Spooky2u2
try to address the jist of it-
Scully thinks she is doing Mulder a huge favour by being his partner and she
needs to save him from his dillusions--
I dont see that. -- "Mulder you don't need me, you never have...I've just held
you back..."FTF And she has "saved him from himself" before (Demons, End Game,
The train one--can't remamber the name, Little Green men, Triangle...) He runs
off and gets himself in trouble and she gets him out of it.
Scully feels compelled to always attack and belittle Mulders theories--
I think that she thinks that's what he expects from her and that's why she was
surprised at his reaction in FT. She thought he appreciated having a challenge
( which later in FT we see he does). She seems to enjoy their* tug of war* so
she assumed he felt the same way.
Scully never defends Mulder but he defended her in The End--
He didn't defend her that much. Scully did defend Mulder in Squeeze and
Tithenous--those are the only eps that I can think of that his place as her
partner was questioned. The rest of the time it's his theories she does not
defend but I don't see him rushing to support her theories either. I'm sure
she sees him as perfectly capable of defending his view point and when the
scientific evidence shows him to be right, she says so. No one disagrees that
at times the writers tend to make Scully "forget" things she's seen, but such
is life.
Scully sees Mulder as a loser so she doesn't think that other women would be
interested in him---
I would say that she probably thought she was one of the few people who
*didn't* see him as a loser and *that's* why she felt safe. At least DF shook
things up a bit and is making Scully think about what kind of relationship she
wants from Mulder.
-------------------------------------------
"I was just here. Where did I go?"~ Mulder
Baronessie
spoo...@aol.com1530 (Spooky2u2) wrote:
> I was answering a post when my computer wigged out and I can't find
it but I'll
> try to address the jist of it-
of a mood, sorry if I sounded uber cantankerous :)
>
> Scully thinks she is doing Mulder a huge favour by being his partner
and she
> needs to save him from his dillusions--
>
> I dont see that. -- "Mulder you don't need me, you never have...I've
just held
> you back..."FTF And she has "saved him from himself" before (Demons,
End Game,
> The train one--can't remamber the name, Little Green men,
Triangle...) He runs
> off and gets himself in trouble and she gets him out of it.
time, but the cases are legitimate, it isn't " Stupid Mulder decided to
see if there was life at the end of a laundry chute and got stuck,
better go save him, he's being delusional again." Demons is a special
case, she didn't save him from himself, she saved him from his doped up
self. He did the same for her in Wetwired.
My take on FTF is admittedly strange, I got the impression that
Scully was saying that her " What are we doing here?" attitude hadn't
been helpful, and Mulder thought that she meant her entire time on TXF
had been wasted, so he reassured her. That was why she was upset in the
Beginning, she thought he wanted to play " convince me that you're not
crazy," and he was wondering what was going on.
Anyway, IMO, it wasn't something Scully had been brooding about, it
came up because she was going to be reassigned, and she was evaluating
her effectiveness in her previous assignment. There's also the fact
that she had been doing her usual" this is insane" spiel before it was
discovered that a virus was gestating in humans.( Don't get me wrong,I
think Scully is/can be a good friend/agent, she just gets on my nerves
at times)
>
> Scully feels compelled to always attack and belittle Mulders
theories--
>
> I think that she thinks that's what he expects from her and that's
why she was
> surprised at his reaction in FT. She thought he appreciated having a
challenge
> ( which later in FT we see he does). She seems to enjoy their* tug
of war* so
> she assumed he felt the same way.
calls him crazy, he welcomes debate over an idea, not mud slinging. I'm
not saying she should acquiesce, but she shouldn't still be doing the
rejection by rote thing she was doing in Deep Throat ie." Just because
I can't explain it, doesn't mean I'm going to believe it was a UFO".
She still scoffs at TXF, and accuses Mulder of looking too hard for
his sister and/or Big Foot. I don't believe Mulder takes it personally
when she disagrees with a case, but when that's all she does all the
time, it can make you feel rejected, especially if you pour all of
yourself into it. And then there's the fact that she makes it
personal. She calls him crazy, tells him he couldn't possibly believe
this or that, and continues to do it after years of having Mulder's
theories turn out right, or at least more correct than her Scully
Rational Explanations.
When she asked if he thought it was Big Foot in FT, she made it sound
like it was an indulgence, like he was trying to prove the existence of
the Easter Bunny. I think she struck a nerve, Mulder thinks that on
some level his quest is selfish, and he feels responsible when Scully
gets injured, he doesn't want to believe he's wasting his life chasing
something hairy in the woods, and he doesn't want her to think she's
been abducted and gotten cancer all because of some childish urge of
his to see things that aren't normal.
> Scully never defends Mulder but he defended her in The End--
>
> He didn't defend her that much. Scully did defend Mulder in Squeeze
and
> Tithenous--those are the only eps that I can think of that his place
as her
> partner was questioned. The rest of the time it's his theories she
does not
> defend but I don't see him rushing to support her theories either.
I'm sure
> she sees him as perfectly capable of defending his view point and
when the
> scientific evidence shows him to be right, she says so. No one
disagrees that
> at times the writers tend to make Scully "forget" things she's seen,
but such
> is life.
I'm thinking of the lunch scene in Squeeze(or was it Tooms) with Tom
Colton, and I can't remember anything positive she said, she just
looked uncomfortable and kept eating. There's also Brother Bill, he
wasn't a colleague, so she shouldn't have been afraid to tell him off
without fear of reprisal, especially since he was condescending towards
her as well.
>
> Scully sees Mulder as a loser so she doesn't think that other women
would be
> interested in him---
>
> I would say that she probably thought she was one of the few people
who
> *didn't* see him as a loser and *that's* why she felt safe. At
least DF shook
> things up a bit and is making Scully think about what kind of
relationship she
> wants from Mulder.
Yep, we agree on the DF angle there! :) I don't know, it's just that
she seems surprised when he makes connections with people, like he
isn't capable of it when it doesn't come down to Samantha. There's also
the " Blind Leading the blind," comment in the Rain King, and the "
he's a jerk," remark from the Jersey Devil. Mulder's perfectly capable
of getting a date,she obviously hasn't heard about the events in 3. I'm
argued out for now, I'll try to explain my reasoning later :)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Spooky2u2
>> Scully thinks she is doing Mulder a huge favour by being his partner
>and she
>> needs to save him from his dillusions--
>
> I dont see that. -- "Mulder you don't need me, you never have...I've
>just held
> you back..."FTF And she has "saved him from himself" before (Demons,
>End Game,
> The train one--can't remamber the name, Little Green men,
>Triangle...) He runs
> off and gets himself in trouble and she gets him out of it.
> There's no question that she hauls him out of trouble from time to
>time, but the cases are legitimate, it isn't " Stupid Mulder decided to
>see if there was life at the end of a laundry chute and got stuck,
>better go save him, he's being delusional again."
Hehe :) Ok let me 'splain. when Mulder gets into trouble, more often than not,
it's because of personal issues. It's usually not over the average case.
Demons is a special
>case, she didn't save him from himself, she saved him from his doped up
>self. He did the same for her in Wetwired.
Yes, but in Demons again, it was a personal choice. He did that to himself
knowingly. while with Scully it was an accident so in a way she does save him
from himself.
> My take on FTF is admittedly strange, I got the impression that
>Scully was saying that her " What are we doing here?" attitude hadn't
>been helpful, and Mulder thought that she meant her entire time on TXF
>had been wasted, so he reassured her.
Her --"Why was I assighed to you?" kind of does go back to the beginning but it
could be interpreted either way.
<snip>.
> Anyway, IMO, it wasn't something Scully had been brooding about, it
>came up because she was going to be reassigned, and she was evaluating
>her effectiveness in her previous assignment. There's also the fact
>that she had been doing her usual" this is insane" spiel before it was
>discovered that a virus was gestating in humans.( Don't get me wrong,I
>think Scully is/can be a good friend/agent, she just gets on my nerves
>at times)
As much as I love both characters, yes, Scully can be a "pill."--But she really
loves Mulder; she's put herself on the line beyond the duty of a partner and
way into the realm of personal many times. Also, I do think that she worries
about her usefulness to Mulder, something that DF seems to use to her
advantage.
> Scully feels compelled to always attack and belittle Mulders
>theories--
> I think that she thinks that's what he expects from her and that's
>why she was
> surprised at his reaction in FT. She thought he appreciated having a
>challenge
> ( which later in FT we see he does). She seems to enjoy their* tug
>of war* so
> she assumed he felt the same way.
> Yes, he expects it from her, but he's not happy about it when she
>calls him crazy, he welcomes debate over an idea, not mud slinging. I'm
>not saying she should acquiesce, but she shouldn't still be doing the
>rejection by rote thing she was doing in Deep Throat ie." Just because
>I can't explain it, doesn't mean I'm going to believe it was a UFO".
> She still scoffs at TXF, and accuses Mulder of looking too hard for
>his sister and/or Big Foot. I don't believe Mulder takes it personally
>when she disagrees with a case, but when that's all she does all the
>time, it can make you feel rejected, especially if you pour all of
>yourself into it. And then there's the fact that she makes it
>personal. She calls him crazy, tells him he couldn't possibly believe
>this or that, and continues to do it after years of having Mulder's
>theories turn out right, or at least more correct than her Scully
>Rational Explanations.
I don't recall her ever saying " Mulder, you're crazy." His theories yes, but
not him. It's kind of like religion: say you were a Native American who
believed in many gods and I was Christian-- do I think you're crazy? No, I
just don't agree with your beliefs. With Tithonous and FT we get to see that a
lot more of Mulder has rubbed off on her than she'd admit, but when Mulder is
there she feels compelled to be "devil's advocate" She can be rough at times,
but she may not be aware of that.
> When she asked if he thought it was Big Foot in FT, she made it sound
>like it was an indulgence, like he was trying to prove the existence of
>the Easter Bunny. I think she struck a nerve, Mulder thinks that on
>some level his quest is selfish, and he feels responsible when Scully
>gets injured, he doesn't want to believe he's wasting his life chasing
>something hairy in the woods, and he doesn't want her to think she's
>been abducted and gotten cancer all because of some childish urge of
>his to see things that aren't normal.
Again, think of how long they've known each other by now. As much as we hate
to admit it, the more comfortable and secure we get with some one the more
careless we are with what we say. I don't think Scully intends to be mean but
merely does not realize how she comes across. As you said, she was shocked at
M's reaction in FT.
>> Scully never defends Mulder but he defended her in The End--
>> He didn't defend her that much. Scully did defend Mulder in Squeeze
>and
>> Tithenous--those are the only eps that I can think of that his place
>as her
>> partner was questioned. The rest of the time it's his theories she
>does not
>> defend but I don't see him rushing to support her theories either.
>I'm sure
>> she sees him as perfectly capable of defending his view point and
>when the
>> scientific evidence shows him to be right, she says so.
<snip>.
> I'm thinking of the lunch scene in Squeeze(or was it Tooms) with Tom
>Colton, and I can't remember anything positive she said, she just
>looked uncomfortable and kept eating. There's also Brother Bill, he
>wasn't a colleague, so she shouldn't have been afraid to tell him off
>without fear of reprisal, especially since he was condescending towards
>her as well.
Look at the crime scene shot in the first guys house and the scene where tom
wants to be the one to call Mulder. I think S makes it pretty clear where she
stands. They had just began working together and she may not have wanted to
waste time arguing with some one who had obviously made up his mind about
"Spooky."
As for Bill-- I wouldn't discuss my personal life with my brother either. Bill
did say: "She's your big defender." so who knows what they may have said that
we didn't see, much like the diner!sam conversation mentioned in 2F.
>> Scully sees Mulder as a loser so she doesn't think that other women
>would be
>> interested in him---
>> I would say that she probably thought she was one of the few people
>who
>> *didn't* see him as a loser and *that's* why she felt safe. At
>least DF shook
>> things up a bit and is making Scully think about what kind of
>relationship she
>> wants from Mulder.
> Yep, we agree on the DF angle there! :) I don't know, it's just that
>she seems surprised when he makes connections with people, like he
>isn't capable of it when it doesn't come down to Samantha. There's also
>the " Blind Leading the blind," comment in the Rain King, and the "
>he's a jerk," remark from the Jersey Devil. Mulder's perfectly capable
>of getting a date,she obviously hasn't heard about the events in 3.
I think she is more insecure than anything. Mulder turns to her so often that
she may feel she must have done something wrong for him to go to someone else.
That other stuff that she said was Scully humor--like "He chews on the
furniture..." And the part about being a jerk--he wasn't my favorite person in
that ep either ;) They had just started working together and had had a bad
day, and she did take it back "He's not a jerk...just really consumed by his
work."
I hope this post shows up this time ;)
Spooky2u2
>> Scully thinks she is doing Mulder a huge favour by being his partner
>and she
>> needs to save him from his dillusions--
>>
>> I dont see that. -- "Mulder you don't need me, you never have...I've
>just held
>> you back..."FTF And she has "saved him from himself" before (Demons,
>End Game,
>> The train one--can't remamber the name, Little Green men,
>Triangle...) He runs
>> off and gets himself in trouble and she gets him out of it.
> There's no question that she hauls him out of trouble from time to
>time, but the cases are legitimate, it isn't " Stupid Mulder decided to
>see if there was life at the end of a laundry chute and got stuck,
>better go save him, he's being delusional again."
Hehehe ;)
Ok, let me explain-- when stuff happens to Scully, it's usually within the job
context but when Mulder get's into trouble, it's *usually* personal so in a way
she does save him from himself in that way.
>Demons is a special
>case, she didn't save him from himself, she saved him from his doped up
>self. He did the same for her in Wetwired.
Again, she kind of did, he made the choice to get those treatments for personal
reasons.
> My take on FTF is admittedly strange, I got the impression that
>Scully was saying that her " What are we doing here?" attitude hadn't
>been helpful, and Mulder thought that she meant her entire time on TXF
>had been wasted, so he reassured her.
Her "Why was I assigned to you?" kind of makes makes me think she is talking
about from the very beginning, but it's hard to say.
That was why she was upset in the
>Beginning, she thought he wanted to play " convince me that you're not
>crazy," and he was wondering what was going on.
Yes, he and the audience were confused. Bad writing ;)
> Anyway, IMO, it wasn't something Scully had been brooding about, it
>came up because she was going to be reassigned, and she was evaluating
>her effectiveness in her previous assignment. There's also the fact
>that she had been doing her usual" this is insane" spiel before it was
>discovered that a virus was gestating in humans.( Don't get me wrong,I
>think Scully is/can be a good friend/agent, she just gets on my nerves
>at times)
Scully can be a "pill" but she loves Mulder. she's put herself on the line
pleanty of times to protect him (anasazi, Tooms, tunguska, end game to name a
few).
I agree about the part with Mulder but I don't think Scully is trying to be
mean and I don't really remember her saying "Mulder, *you're* crazy" His ideas
yes, but not him. It's kind of like with religion-- i maybe be Christian and
you may be Jewish , do I think you're crazy? no, but I do disagree with you.
Another thing you have to consider is that sometimes it's with the people we
love the most that we feel we can act this way with. We take for granted that
they know us well enough to realize that we don't mean it and we're blowing off
steam--you know? . A common reaction I have to people I know really well who
act immature--"You're so stupid" They know I'm not really calling them stupid
even though that's what I said.
>> Scully never defends Mulder but he defended her in The End--
>> He didn't defend her that much. Scully did defend Mulder in Squeeze
>and
>> Tithenous--those are the only eps that I can think of that his place
>as her
>> partner was questioned. The rest of the time it's his theories she
>does not
>> defend but I don't see him rushing to support her theories either.
>I'm sure
>> she sees him as perfectly capable of defending his view point and
>when the
>> scientific evidence shows him to be right, she says so. No one
>disagrees that
>> at times the writers tend to make Scully "forget" things she's seen,
>but such
>> is life.
> I'm thinking of the lunch scene in Squeeze(or was it Tooms) with Tom
>Colton, and I can't remember anything positive she said, she just
>looked uncomfortable and kept eating.
She probably didn't want to get in the middle of it with someone who she knew
wasn't going to change their mind about "Spooky." Look at the scene where they
go to the house/crime scene--she stands up for Muler then and also when Colton
wants to call Mulder to tell him they called off the watch. Scully seemed
pretty ticked to me.
>There's also Brother Bill, he
>wasn't a colleague, so she shouldn't have been afraid to tell him off
>without fear of reprisal, especially since he was condescending towards
>her as well.
Bill and Scully don't seem particularly close. I doubt she wanted to discuss
it with him. Bill Scully himself said to M -- "She's your big defender."
> Scully sees Mulder as a loser so she doesn't think that other women
>would be
>> interested in him---
>> I would say that she probably thought she was one of the few people
>who
>> *didn't* see him as a loser and *that's* why she felt safe. At
>least DF shook
>> things up a bit and is making Scully think about what kind of
>relationship she
>> wants from Mulder.
> Yep, we agree on the DF angle there! :) I don't know, it's just that
>she seems surprised when he makes connections with people, like he
>isn't capable of it when it doesn't come down to Samantha. There's also
>the " Blind Leading the blind," comment in the Rain King, and the "
>he's a jerk," remark from the Jersey Devil. Mulder's perfectly capable
>of getting a date,she obviously hasn't heard about the events in 3.
IMO She isn't so much surprised as insecure. He comes to *only* her for so
often that when he goes to somone else she may wonder if she has done something
wrong. We've never really seen M in that situation so it's hard to say if he
would feel the same way, but he certainly seemed effected in Milagro. The look
on his face when S said she had a secret admirer was priceless. :)
Mulder was a little self centered in the first few episodes ;) and she did
correct herself and say "he's not really a jerk just consumed by his work"
The blind leading the blind was just Scully humor.
> I'm
>argued out for now, I'll try to explain my reasoning later :)
I guess I'm a bothist, I can see why both act the way they do but Mulder has a
special place in my heart :)
Baronessie
snip
>
> > There's no question that she hauls him out of trouble from time to
> >time, but the cases are legitimate, it isn't " Stupid Mulder decided
to
> >see if there was life at the end of a laundry chute and got stuck,
> >better go save him, he's being delusional again."
>
> Hehe :) Ok let me 'splain. when Mulder gets into trouble, more often
than not,
> it's because of personal issues. It's usually not over the average
case.
only cases that were personal were Paper Hearts, Demons, and maybe
Triangle, the rest were average cases, IMO.
>
> Demons is a special
> >case, she didn't save him from himself, she saved him from his doped
up
> >self. He did the same for her in Wetwired.
>
> Yes, but in Demons again, it was a personal choice. He did that to
himself
> knowingly. while with Scully it was an accident so in a way she does
save him
> from himself.
wouldn't undergo a treatment that meant having suicidal impulses and
the tendency to forget murders as side effects :) Scully used hypnosis
and something she hadn't anticipated could have occurred, but I
wouldn't say it was her decision to have adverse reactions.(Argh, take
law for two years, and this is what happens to you:)
snip
(Don't get me wrong,I
> >think Scully is/can be a good friend/agent, she just gets on my
nerves
> >at times)
>
> As much as I love both characters, yes, Scully can be a "pill."--But
she really
> loves Mulder; she's put herself on the line beyond the duty of a
partner and
> way into the realm of personal many times. Also, I do think that she
worries
> about her usefulness to Mulder, something that DF seems to use to her
> advantage.
they haven't interacted enough to have that kind of knowledge about
each other. DF may think she's insecure about Mulder, but the TXF issue
probably hasn't crossed her mind.
Also, IMO again, Scully only thinks
about her contributions or lack thereof to the X-Files when someone
else questions them. She said herself that she left med school to join
the FBI because she wanted to make a difference. If she didn't think
she was making a difference, she would have left.
snip
>
> I don't recall her ever saying " Mulder, you're crazy." His theories
yes, but
> not him. It's kind of like religion: say you were a Native American
who
> believed in many gods and I was Christian-- do I think you're crazy?
No, I
> just don't agree with your beliefs. With Tithonous and FT we get to
see that a
> lot more of Mulder has rubbed off on her than she'd admit, but when
Mulder is
> there she feels compelled to be "devil's advocate" She can be rough
at times,
> but she may not be aware of that.
honestly believe...". It's in there, just can't remember where. IMO
she's aware of what she sounds like, she just assumes he's a masochist
(Did anyone else get the impression that Mulder was worried about what
Scully was planning to do with the shoe she waved in his face during
Colony/Endgame?:) or is secure in the knowledge that he doesn't have
anywhere else to turn, so she can treat him like she does.
It's almost as if she can't vent in front of anyone else, she pulled
a car over rather than act belligerently towards a prisoner,(Kill
Switch)she ignored the mysogonistic cop in 2 Shy, she let Brother Bill
insult her, her partner, and their work, yet she isn't afraid to yell
at Mulder. She accused him of being selfish and not caring about the
lives of the cult members in TFWID, and she's never been afraid of
hurting his feelings. Seems like she cares about what everyone but
Mulder thinks of her unless there's a chance that Mulder will graze
elsewhere. Well...she did yell at Skinner, but she's always the first
to call him a traitor, so ...
snip
>I don't think Scully intends to be
mean but
> merely does not realize how she comes across. As you said, she was
shocked at
> M's reaction in FT.
there are ways to disagree with someone without disparaging them and
making their quest foolish. I think she knows what she's saying would
be insulting to her if Mulder said it, but doesn't think he takes it
that way, or thinks it doesn't matter what she says to him because he's
too much of a loser to get a partner that would refrain from calling
him a whacko:)
snip
>
> > I'm thinking of the lunch scene in Squeeze(or was it Tooms) with
Tom
> >Colton, and I can't remember anything positive she said, she just
> >looked uncomfortable and kept eating. There's also Brother Bill, he
> >wasn't a colleague, so she shouldn't have been afraid to tell him off
> >without fear of reprisal, especially since he was condescending
towards
> >her as well.
>
> Look at the crime scene shot in the first guys house and the scene
where tom
> wants to be the one to call Mulder. I think S makes it pretty clear
where she
> stands. They had just began working together and she may not have
wanted to
> waste time arguing with some one who had obviously made up his mind
about
> "Spooky."
have had to argue, she could have said she didn't agree and moved on to
another topic.
snip
>
> I think she is more insecure than anything. Mulder turns to her so
often that
> she may feel she must have done something wrong for him to go to
someone else.
Mulder crazy for about 6 months:)She doesn't act like someone who's
worried about her position in Mulder's life or work, most people are
gratuitously kind if they're worried about those sorts of things.
snip
>
> That other stuff that she said was Scully humor--like "He chews on the
> furniture..." And the part about being a jerk--he wasn't my favorite
person in
> that ep either ;) They had just started working together and had had
a bad
> day, and she did take it back "He's not a jerk...just really consumed
by his
> work."
if she didn't think it.
> I hope this post shows up this time ;)
Deborah A Tinsley
Baronessie <baron...@my-deja.com> wrote in article
<7ugfru$clk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>snip
> But he didn't know what the side effects would be. Even Mulder
> wouldn't undergo a treatment that meant having suicidal impulses and
> the tendency to forget murders as side effects :)
Yeah but having holes drilled in one's head and being injected with animal
tranquilizer seems fairly irrational to me. Then to refuse all medical help
when he's passing out and going into near convulsions seems particularly
suicidal. And then to have it done again, go back to the mad doctor, even
knowing what happened with the couple in the old house who had had the
same treatment, that's way out of bounds.
Scully used hypnosis
> and something she hadn't anticipated could have occurred, but I
> wouldn't say it was her decision to have adverse reactions.(Argh, take
> law for two years, and this is what happens to you:)
> snip
But Mulder knew, or should have known especially by the second treatment,
just how risky it was. He was just so driven by his obsession he was
willing to undergo such and incredibly dangerous procedure. It gives one
the feeling that at times he does not value his life or else at times feels
he cannot live without the answers he so desperately seeks. He must have
also realized at some point that memory induced in such a traumatic way
could not be trusted.
Deborah
Spooky2u2
>time, but the cases are legitimate, it isn't " Stupid Mulder decided
>to
>see if there was life at the end of a laundry chute and got stuck,
>better go save him, he's being delusional again."
> Hehe :) Ok let me 'splain. when Mulder gets into trouble, more often
>than not,
>> it's because of personal issues. It's usually not over the average
>case.
> Hmmm...I looked over at Deep Background's "ditch" section, and the
>only cases that were personal were Paper Hearts, Demons, and maybe
>Triangle, the rest were average cases, IMO.
Colony/End game-- Mulder said it was personal
Herenvolk 2 parter also turned personal when he ditched her even though it
started as a regular case..
What ditches are you referring to that weren't personal? Jersey Devil is one
but again they were just beginning to get used to each other at that time.
>
> Demons is a special
>case, she didn't save him from himself, she saved him from his doped
>up
>> >self. He did the same for her in Wetwired.
>>
> Yes, but in Demons again, it was a personal choice. He did that to
>himself
> knowingly. while with Scully it was an accident so in a way she does
>save him
> from himself.
> But he didn't know what the side effects would be.
Didn't he go back even after he started having the bad reactions? It's been a
while since I saw it last, but I thought he did.
Even Mulder
>wouldn't undergo a treatment that meant having suicidal impulses.
Again, I thought he knew the *second time* and decided to take the risk
thinking that he would be able to handle himself.
> As much as I love both characters, yes, Scully can be a "pill."--But
>she really
> loves Mulder; she's put herself on the line beyond the duty of a
>partner and
> way into the realm of personal many times. Also, I do think that she
>worries
> about her usefulness to Mulder, something that DF seems to use to her
> advantage.
> IMO, DF doesn't think that Scully is insecure about her usefulness,
>they haven't interacted enough to have that kind of knowledge about
>each other. DF may think she's insecure about Mulder, but the TXF issue
>probably hasn't crossed her mind.
I was thinking of DF's comment about M needing someone who thinks like he
does.
> Also, IMO again, Scully only thinks
>about her contributions or lack thereof to the X-Files when someone
>else questions them. She said herself that she left med school to join
>the FBI because she wanted to make a difference. If she didn't think
>she was making a difference, she would have left.
>snip
(See later remark on S's insecurity)
>
I don't recall her ever saying " Mulder, you're crazy." His theories
>yes, but
>> not him. It's kind of like religion: say you were a Native American
>who
>> believed in many gods and I was Christian-- do I think you're crazy?
>No, I
>> just don't agree with your beliefs. With Tithonous and FT we get to
>see that a
>> lot more of Mulder has rubbed off on her than she'd admit, but when
>Mulder is
>> there she feels compelled to be "devil's advocate" She can be rough
>at times,
>> but she may not be aware of that.
> She's said " Mulder, you're crazy" many times, and also" You can't
>honestly believe...". It's in there, just can't remember where.
Please let me know where. I can't recall
"You can't possibly believe isn't exactly the same as " Mulder, You're crazy"
the earlier statement emplies that he is a normal person with intelligent
thought therefore "couldn't possibly believe," but- you're crazy- in a
malevolent manner simply means "you're crazy" besides I tell people their
crazy all the time they know I don't actually think they're crazy. It's like
when you say "I could just kill you." you're not actually going to kill anyone.
Like you said, If she had wanted to leave she could have. She probably
assumes that Mulder knows she wouldn't stay if she really thought he were
crazy. I mean goodness knows if I were put through some of the same stuff she
has been, if I thought my partner was crazy, I would have left long ago. Now,
in Anasazi he is acting crazy and she knows it so she tries to find out what's
going on.
>IMO
>she's aware of what she sounds like, she just assumes he's a masochist
>(Did anyone else get the impression that Mulder was worried about what
>Scully was planning to do with the shoe she waved in his face during
>Colony/Endgame?:) or is secure in the knowledge that he doesn't have
>anywhere else to turn, so she can treat him like she does.
> It's almost as if she can't vent in front of anyone else, she pulled
>a car over rather than act belligerently towards a prisoner,(Kill
>Switch)she ignored the mysogonistic cop in 2 Shy, she let Brother Bill
>insult her, her partner, and their work, yet she isn't afraid to yell
>at Mulder. She accused him of being selfish and not caring about the
>lives of the cult members in TFWID, and she's never been afraid of
>hurting his feelings. Seems like she cares about what everyone but
>Mulder thinks of her unless there's a chance that Mulder will graze
>elsewhere. Well...she did yell at Skinner, but she's always the first
>to call him a traitor, so ...
> snip
What did she say in to M in 2shy & kill switch? (speaking of KS, M knew that
wasn't the real S because she was not acting concerned:) ) Skinner isn't my
favorite person either, but I digress. Let's assume that she does know. Isn't
this something we are all guilty of? We take our anger out on the people we
know will take it and still love us. We don't always realize it either.
Mulder has done some yelling too ;) Give Scully some credit--her greatest
fear in wetwired is that Mulder isn't the man she thinks he is. If that's her
greatest fear, it seems like he must be pretty important to her. I think
anasazi, end game, little green men triangle, and tooms are all wonderful
examples of what she feels for Mulder. In fact you could argue from
"irresistable" --"I don't want him to feel like he has to protect me" could be
a reason that she acts a bit rough--overcompensation. She's a small woman in
the boys club. She's not shy with others either (Kersh and Ritter--in
Tithenous the board in both Tunguska and redux2 and FTF, Boggs in BTS, Roche in
PH, and recently DF-- Biogenesis, the professor in Grotesque, the computer guy
in Calusari( M laughed when she dissed that guy ;) ...there are more)
>I don't think Scully intends to be
>mean but>> merely does not realize how she comes across. As you said, she was
>shocked at
>> M's reaction in FT.
> I agree that she doesn't mean to sound callous all of the time, but
>there are ways to disagree with someone without disparaging them and
>making their quest foolish. I think she knows what she's saying would
>be insulting to her if Mulder said it, but doesn't think he takes it
>that way, or thinks it doesn't matter what she says to him because he's
>too much of a loser to get a partner that would refrain from calling
>him a whacko:)
Most of the time S doesn't come off all that badly, she just demands proof of
what he's saying. "Leonard Betts" was the worst I can think of, and M did
suggest out of thin air that the man grew his head back ;) That was before they
even got any tests back.
> I'm thinking of the lunch scene in Squeeze(or was it Tooms) with
>Tom
>Colton, and I can't remember anything positive she said, she just
>looked uncomfortable and kept eating. There's also Brother Bill, he
>wasn't a colleague, so she shouldn't have been afraid to tell him off
>without fear of reprisal, especially since he was condescending
>towards
>her as well.
> Look at the crime scene shot in the first guys house and the scene
>where tom
> wants to be the one to call Mulder. I think S makes it pretty clear
>where she
> stands. They had just began working together and she may not have
>wanted to
>> waste time arguing with some one who had obviously made up his mind
>about
>> "Spooky."
> Yes, but the entire lunch was off company time, and she wouldn't
>have had to argue, she could have said she didn't agree and moved on to
>another topic.
I see what you're saying, but at the same time just her saying that she didn't
agree may have set him off and she just didn't want to get into it. She didn't
laugh or agree with his "spooky" remarks so she may have just expected him to
get the hint and drop it.
>snip
> I think she is more insecure than anything. Mulder turns to her so
>often that
> she may feel she must have done something wrong for him to go to
>someone else.
> If Scully is so insecure, she should try abstaining from calling
>Mulder crazy for about 6 months:)She doesn't act like someone who's
>worried about her position in Mulder's life or work, most people are
>gratuitously kind if they're worried about those sorts of things.
> snip
She's not, under normal circumstances, but like the rest of us sometimes she
questions things in her life. We all suffer bouts of insecurity at one time or
another but that doesn't mean we worry about those things all the time--usually
something does trigger it just as with Scully. For Scully some of it may come
about when M says "My work" instead of "our work" and goes to other people. I
still say she doesn't think he's crazy. (see above explanation) The woman
get's up at ungodly hours and helps him when he needs her --FTF, 3 of a
kind...) She must think pretty highly of him.
> That other stuff that she said was Scully humor--like "He chews on the
> furniture..." And the part about being a jerk--he wasn't my favorite
>person in
>that ep either ;) They had just started working together and had had
>a bad
> day, and she did take it back "He's not a jerk...just really consumed
>by his
> work."
> OK, but there was a grain of truth in it. She wouldn't joke about it
>if she didn't think it.
I think people I love act like jerks some times and I tell them so but that
doesn't mean that I love them any less. I know this doesn't exactly apply to M
&S at the time since they had just started working together, but you know what
I mean. We all say things that we may feel at the time but it doesn't mean
that's how we feel forever. I've told my brother he was a jerk before. I
don't feel that way now but I did at the time I said it. Think of the end
scene M: "Where are you going?" S: "with you." I wouldn't be in a hurry to go
along with someone I didn't like.
> I hope this post shows up this time ;)
> Glad it did, this's fun!:)
I agree :) I'm glad to debate M&S with some one who doesn't take it
personally. Most poeple make up their minds and if you try to debate with them
they get all bent out of shape. It's so much better when people can exchange
opinions.
Helena Bowles
Baronessie wrote
> She's said " Mulder, you're crazy" many times, and also" You can't
>honestly believe...". It's in there, just can't remember where. IMO
>she's aware of what she sounds like, she just assumes he's a masochist
>(Did anyone else get the impression that Mulder was worried about what
>Scully was planning to do with the shoe she waved in his face during
>Colony/Endgame?:) or is secure in the knowledge that he doesn't have
>anywhere else to turn, so she can treat him like she does.
This is Helena delurking to scream "Nononono....that's not it at all!!!!"
She certainly has called him crazy but that's what she's there for! Okay
she's not subtle about it but I always got the impression that her plain
speaking was something that Mulder appreciated. She wasn't playing games
with him or being two faced, if she thought he was crazy she came right out
and said it. I can imagine years of people being polite to his face, then
going away to sneer about "Spooky Mulder" and his crazy ideas, particularly
and I think this is a crucial point, those under him. Mulder is technically
Scully's boss, he is also male (oh yeah... down,girl, ahem) physically
imposing (must be at least a foot taller than her) and is, on the surface at
least, overbrimming with confidence,at times even arrogance. I can't see any
other way for Scully as a tiny, slight, professionally inferior female to
actually assert her equality in the partnership than to do what she has
done - become aloof, untouchable and, above all, LOUD. Given that this is
the mode of communication established shortly after they started working
together it is unsurprising that Scully is still following it, even though
now she has Mulder's respect.
Scully has suffered so much over the last few years that she is quite
understandably emotionally shell shocked. I won't say her wounds are greater
than Mulder's but they are certainly fresher. In some ways it appears she
shuts herself off emotionally, in fact Melissa accused her of that waaay
back. With Mulder she has the problem that at the end of the day he is the
only one who knows (some of) what she has been through. Without him there is
quite literally no other person who can understand her or truly support her.
She hates relying on him and this makes her feel claustrophobic causing her
pull away from him. The fact Mulder has paradoxically more emotional
awareness and is trying to change the status quo (his declaration in
Triangle,his assertiveness in defence of his opinions in Field Trip) seems
likely, at least in the short term to make her more defensive and to
exaggerate the earlier methods of communication until she quite literally
acts out a caricature of herself. In her mind she isn't treating him badly
(though, of course, she is), she is simply doing what she has always done.
I think Scully is all too aware that Mulder does indeed have other
places to turn. A list springs to mind, including plucked from the top of my
head, Bambi (yeah, I know she went off with the other guy but I'm being
symbolic here), Detective White, Karin and let us not forget Diana. It's
Scully herself who has nowhere else and noone else to turn to. There I think
lies the root of her insecurity.
> It's almost as if she can't vent in front of anyone else, she pulled
>a car over rather than act belligerently towards a prisoner,(Kill
>Switch)she ignored the mysogonistic cop in 2 Shy, she let Brother Bill
>insult her, her partner, and their work, yet she isn't afraid to yell
>at Mulder. She accused him of being selfish and not caring about the
>lives of the cult members in TFWID, and she's never been afraid of
>hurting his feelings. Seems like she cares about what everyone but
>Mulder thinks of her unless there's a chance that Mulder will graze
>elsewhere. Well...she did yell at Skinner, but she's always the first
>to call him a traitor, so ...
> snip
I think she cares what Mulder thinks far too much for her own peace of
mind and I think you're being just a little unfair here :). Sounding off in
front of a prisoner would be unprofessional in the extreme and Scully is
never unprofessional (except to Mulder, perhaps and that's arguable). She
may not have said anything to Bill on screen but doesn't brother B. come out
with a line along the lines of "She's your greatest defender." And I think
that's the point. Scully is not demonstrative, not particularly affectionate
but she shows a huge loyalty to Mulder that IMO demonstrates exactly how
much she does care. She'll nail her colours to his mast at every
opportunity, quietly, without fuss and that is what counts. Mulder knows
this, he relies on her to get him out of trouble. He doesn't appear bothered
by her remoteness. After six years of working together he must know well
enough not to be disturbed this. The only time he does challenge her, in
Field Trip, it is a textbook case of assertiveness. He is direct, honest,
open and clear about what he wants without being confrontational and Scully
responds. She's clearly surprised - to her this was business as usual but
she does shut up and she begins to reevaluate her method of communicating.
If she didn't care about his feelings and opinions she could have easily
sneered or brushed him off.
Scully does vent at Mulder but friends often do that to each other. It
is strangers who treat each other with perfect politeness and courtesy.
Friends can be less careful because they trust each other so that careless
words are either ignored or easily forgiven. Mulder knows what Scully has
endured and that she has yet to fully come to terms with any of it. Maybe he
feels that the best role he can perform as a friend is to give her space and
be an emotional safety valve. At least that way she is still open to him,
and if she can trust him with her anger and her disappointment then there is
at least a chance for her to trust him with the rest of emotions which he so
clearly (to us) wants.
HELENA
Hel...@hbowles.freeserve.co.uk
Magpie
I feel awful about snipping everything here to respond
to a small point but I don't have the time the whole thing
deserves for a response right now!
> Baronessie wrote
> > It's almost as if she can't vent in front of anyone else, she pulled
> >a car over rather than act belligerently towards a prisoner,(Kill
> >Switch)she ignored the mysogonistic cop in 2 Shy, she let Brother Bill
> >insult her, her partner, and their work, yet she isn't afraid to yell
> >at Mulder. She accused him of being selfish and not caring about the
> >lives of the cult members in TFWID, and she's never been afraid of
> >hurting his feelings. Seems like she cares about what everyone but
> >Mulder thinks of her unless there's a chance that Mulder will graze
> >elsewhere. Well...she did yell at Skinner, but she's always the first
> >to call him a traitor, so ...
> > snip
> I think she cares what Mulder thinks far too much for her own peace of
> mind and I think you're being just a little unfair here :). Sounding off in
> front of a prisoner would be unprofessional in the extreme and Scully is
> never unprofessional (except to Mulder, perhaps and that's arguable). She
> may not have said anything to Bill on screen but doesn't brother B. come out
> with a line along the lines of "She's your greatest defender." And I think
> that's the point. Scully is not demonstrative, not particularly affectionate
> but she shows a huge loyalty to Mulder that IMO demonstrates exactly how
> much she does care.
What do you (and everyone) think about Mulder's line from Dreamlands
in this context: "Your brother's name is Bill and he *hates* me!"
Besides the obvious reaction that this is a stupid way to prove
to Scully he's really Mulder, do you think this line indicates
they've discussed Bill themselves? That Mulder would be able
to say that in a pretty light-hearted way (as something Scully
already knows) makes me think Scully might have talked to him
about Bill's behavior and maybe tried to explain it or apologize
for it. Mulder might have been able to tell her how Bill made
him feel and Scully understood why. It makes me feel a little
better about poor Mulder out there in the hospital hallway.
Scully knew everyone had the best intentions there, but in
the end she probably sided with Mulder on how those intentions
manifested themselves.
-m
Helena Bowles
Magpie wrote in message <380D38...@attglobal.net>...
>Helena Bowles wrote:
>
>I feel awful about snipping everything here to respond
>to a small point but I don't have the time the whole thing
>deserves for a response right now
Snip away! Wordy is my middle name ;) As is prolix, verbose, etc. etc
<g>
>
>What do you (and everyone) think about Mulder's line from Dreamlands
>in this context: "Your brother's name is Bill and he *hates* me!"
I definitely saw it as an in joke. Mulder wasn't whining or hurt. The
very fact he came out with it suggests he felt Scully had been on his side
in any discussions they had about it.
>
>Besides the obvious reaction that this is a stupid way to prove
>to Scully he's really Mulder, do you think this line indicates
>they've discussed Bill themselves? That Mulder would be able
>to say that in a pretty light-hearted way (as something Scully
>already knows) makes me think Scully might have talked to him
>about Bill's behavior and maybe tried to explain it or apologize
>for it. Mulder might have been able to tell her how Bill made
>him feel and Scully understood why. It makes me feel a little
>better about poor Mulder out there in the hospital hallway.
>Scully knew everyone had the best intentions there, but in
>the end she probably sided with Mulder on how those intentions
>manifested themselves.
Yes, totally agree.
HELENA
Hel...@hbowles.freeserve.co.uk
>
>-m
>
Baronessie
"Helena Bowles" <Hel...@hbowles.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Baronessie wrote
> > She's said " Mulder, you're crazy" many times, and also" You can't
> >honestly believe...". It's in there, just can't remember where. IMO
> >she's aware of what she sounds like, she just assumes he's a
masochist
> >(Did anyone else get the impression that Mulder was worried about
what
> >Scully was planning to do with the shoe she waved in his face during
> >Colony/Endgame?:) or is secure in the knowledge that he doesn't have
> >anywhere else to turn, so she can treat him like she does.
>
> This is Helena delurking to scream "Nononono....that's not it at
all!!!!"
> She certainly has called him crazy but that's what she's there
for! Okay
> she's not subtle about it but I always got the impression that her
plain
> speaking was something that Mulder appreciated .She wasn't playing
games
> with him or being two faced, if she thought he was crazy she came
right out
> and said it.
She hadn't seen much, she was just out of med school and believed that
everything could be explained by a textbook.Now, however, it's a
complete waste of time, and it makes her sound like she thinks the work
is a farce. Mulder shouldn't have to justify himself to her every time
he wants to investigate an X-File, it's her job to investigate. She's
perfectly entitled to her own opinions, but she doesn't need to
denigrate his in order to have hers.OK, it wouldn't be as entertaining,
but I digress.
snip
Mulder is technically
> Scully's boss, he is also male (oh yeah... down,girl, ahem) physically
> imposing (must be at least a foot taller than her) and is, on the
surface at
> least, overbrimming with confidence,at times even arrogance. I can't
see any
> other way for Scully as a tiny, slight, professionally inferior
female to
> actually assert her equality in the partnership than to do what she
has
> done - become aloof, untouchable and, above all, LOUD. Given that
this is
> the mode of communication established shortly after they started
working
> together it is unsurprising that Scully is still following it, even
though
> now she has Mulder's respect.
Hmm....Loud I can understand,turning into Queen Elizabeth the first
doesn't make as much sense to me, considering that Mulder has never
tried to use his size to intimidate her, and hardly ever raises his
voice. He's her superior agent, but when she introduced herself, she
said she had been assigned to work with him, not for him. She didn't
consider herself a Junior partner then, and she certainly didn't by the
time Never Again came around, IMO.
>
> Scully has suffered so much over the last few years that she is
quite
> understandably emotionally shell shocked. I won't say her wounds are
greater
> than Mulder's but they are certainly fresher. In some ways it appears
she
> shuts herself off emotionally, in fact Melissa accused her of that
waaay
> back.
Hmmm...shell shocked sounds right in the sense that she sometimes has
flashbacks, she's sort of rocking like that
alien from " Jose Chung's from Outer Space," saying" This is not
happening, this is not happening." I don't think she allows
herself to feel, though, it comes through once in awhile, and it's
intense, but for the most part it's out of mind.
>
> I think Scully is all too aware that Mulder does indeed have other
> places to turn. A list springs to mind, including plucked from the
top of my
> head, Bambi (yeah, I know she went off with the other guy but I'm
being
> symbolic here), Detective White, Karin and let us not forget Diana.
It's
> Scully herself who has nowhere else and noone else to turn to. There
I think
> lies the root of her insecurity.
Hadn't thought of that. She does have her mother, Brother Bill(OK,not
Brother Bill:) Charlie and ...Hmmm, you're right,her friendship base
has dwindled since the first season. However, she is capable of making
connections, there was Hartwell in Bad Blood, the guy from Never Again,
and Padgett from Milagro. IMO Hartwell= Det. White(law enforcement),
Padgett=Kristen( a more meaningful
relationship where the non X-Files mate had an understanding of the X-
Files mate), and Bambi=the guy from Never Again.
snip
Mulder knows what Scully has
> endured and that she has yet to fully come to terms with any of it.
Maybe he
> feels that the best role he can perform as a friend is to give her
space and
> be an emotional safety valve. At least that way she is still open to
him,
> and if she can trust him with her anger and her disappointment then
there is
> at least a chance for her to trust him with the rest of emotions
which he so
> clearly (to us) wants.
>
> HELENA
Yes, but at what point do you cross the line between emotional saftey
valve and whipping boy? I know what you're saying, I complain to
friends, and I can be a little irascible, but I'm not perpetually in
that sort of mood, and it's not a part my friends see very often,
they're accustomed to the nicer sides of me,(yes, I do have them:) and
can overlook occasional outbursts. It's not the same with M&S, she
hasn't really displayed any emotions other than anger and indiffernce
towards him(yes, she's been a shoulder to cry on, but that's not a
positive reaction to him as a person. Most people, IMO, would let a
colleague cry on them)Basically, Scully has spent the last 3 seasons
complaining about the cases they were going on, she's told him twice in
the past two years that she can no longer support him, she had the
entire Never Again angst fest, etc. Mulder has seen her anger towards
him and their situation, and he's probably afraid that after all that's
happend, she truly means what she says to him, and believes that she
believes all the bad things that befell her were his fault(Gethsemane).
Maybe FT was an experiment to see if she knew what sort of effect her
words were having? I don't know. I can understand why she feels the way
she does, but don't like her methods of dealing with her feelings,
especially when they harm someone with less people to talk to than she
does. Yes, there have been good times(the Unnatural) but they're few
and far between. Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I've got the
flu and am not quite cognizant :)
Magpie
>
> In article <7uijvj$in6$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>,
> "Helena Bowles" <Hel...@hbowles.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
I think maybe she needs to come out and say that she blames
him for everything in the heat of anger. If it was out
there, they could possibly deal with it. I think if she
actually said it she would realize that Mulder isn't
responsible and she could examine what was really going on
that made her feel like he was. I mean, the diary we heard
in MM was beautiful, but another thing you can do in a diary
is yell at someone and blame them for everything. Once you
write it down, you see how silly it is. (Of course, I would
put it past Scully to lie in her diary.) Right now she often
seems to be punishing him for nothing. He's just perpetually
guilty somehow.
Of course, I would hate to see a scene where M&S ever had one
of those fake conversations you see on tv shows where they
"examine" and "work through" all their feelings and come out
all better. They interact more like real people, in
messy, imperfect ways. That's how I'd like to see this
worked out: messily, imperfectly, but they'd get to the
other side.
-m
Spooky2u2
>and far between.
sorry, I snipped a lot but I just needed to make the point that we as viewers
have only been allowed to view M & S in the work setting (for the most part).
It's hard to say how they would act out of the work setting. We get hints that
they do interact outside of work,(the football game and liberty bell, for two)
but we rarely get to see it . Also look at Scully's cradling of M in FTF. It
was a rather intimate moment that I don't think would have happened if they
were not in the middle of no where. So what I'm saying is that it's hard to
make a judgement as to their "whole" relationship because we don't really get a
full picture in that repect. Even "detour" was within the framework of a case
but we did get a bit of a glimpse there. M joking in the car. M &S chatting
next to the fire. S even wanted to talk about her cancer but it was clear that
M did not want to discuss it. He did not feel comfortable talking or thinking
about Scully's mortality. I got the same impression from "Small Potatoes" when
he asked her who she wanted to be added "you can't be a dead person." In
Milagro, they seemed very cumfortable sitting around in M's apartment. I just
got a totally different "vibe" from them in that setting than I normally do
when they're at the office. You see what I'm saying? They do seem different
(to me anyway) when not totally in the working or investigating mode, but we
rarley see that side to them.
Konrad Douglas Frye
<snip>
>sorry, I snipped a lot but I just needed to make the point that we as
>viewers have only been allowed to view M & S in the work setting (for the
>most part). It's hard to say how they would act out of the work setting.
>We get hints that they do interact outside of work, (the football game
>and liberty bell, for two) but we rarely get to see it.
And that's why these brief scenes are so critically important. It's a
commonly held belief that moving forward with the Mulder/Scully
relationship would alter M&S's working relationship and intrude on the
mytharc and MOTW stories that 1013 was trying to tell. Imho, this view is
shortsighted and ignores the fact that we only catch a glimpse of Mulder
and Scully's personal lives a handful of times a season. It's in *these*
brief moments that we'll be privileged to see what form the "altered"
relationship would take. Armed with the knowledge provided from these
"special moments", the audience could then infer off camera behaviour.
1013 can succeed where others have failed because they've made implicit
storytelling and characterization an important part of the show from the
very beginning. It would be a shame not to seize the opportunity.
------
Konrad Frye (k f r y e @ e s c a p e . c a)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with the
bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you?"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Spooky2u2
>viewers have only been allowed to view M & S in the work setting (for the
>most part). It's hard to say how they would act out of the work setting.
>We get hints that they do interact outside of work, (the football game
>and liberty bell, for two) but we rarely get to see it.
<<<And that's why these brief scenes are so critically important. It's a
commonly held belief that moving forward with the Mulder/Scully
relationship would alter M&S's working relationship and intrude on the
mytharc and MOTW stories that 1013 was trying to tell. Imho, this view is
shortsighted and ignores the fact that we only catch a glimpse of Mulder
and Scully's personal lives a handful of times a season. It's in *these*
brief moments that we'll be privileged to see what form the "altered"
relationship would take. Armed with the knowledge provided from these
"special moments", the audience could then infer off camera behaviour.
1013 can succeed where others have failed because they've made implicit
storytelling and characterization an important part of the show from the
very beginning. It would be a shame not to seize the opportunity.>>>
Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say, thanks for making it clearer ;)
It bugs me that a lot of people have complained about Scully's behavior "The
unnatural"--"Scully would never act that way," but there is no way we can say
that because we've never been given the opportunity to see her in that kind of
situation before. They didn't have a case they were working on. M was
indulging a personal interest, not really a case. S was free to be her "away
from work" self with M. I see no problem with her behavior. She acted like a
real person. I think DD gave M & S a big push in the right direction and he
gave viewers a good idea of how M & S behave when out of the work mode. That's
a big reason why I love TU -- a great story and a glimpse at "personal" M & S.
Baronessie
"Helena Bowles" <Hel...@hbowles.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Magpie wrote in message <380D38...@attglobal.net>...
> >Helena Bowles wrote:
> >
> >What do you (and everyone) think about Mulder's line from Dreamlands
> >in this context: "Your brother's name is Bill and he *hates* me!"
>
> I definitely saw it as an in joke. Mulder wasn't whining or hurt.
The
> very fact he came out with it suggests he felt Scully had been on his
side
> in any discussions they had about it.
>
> >
> >Besides the obvious reaction that this is a stupid way to prove
> >to Scully he's really Mulder, do you think this line indicates
> >they've discussed Bill themselves? That Mulder would be able
> >to say that in a pretty light-hearted way (as something Scully
> >already knows) makes me think Scully might have talked to him
> >about Bill's behavior and maybe tried to explain it or apologize
> >for it. Mulder might have been able to tell her how Bill made
> >him feel and Scully understood why. It makes me feel a little
> >better about poor Mulder out there in the hospital hallway.
> >Scully knew everyone had the best intentions there, but in
> >the end she probably sided with Mulder on how those intentions
> >manifested themselves.
>
> Yes, totally agree.
>
> HELENA
> Hel...@hbowles.freeserve.co.uk
waiting to be discharged from the hospital? Maybe that's when the Sam
and Bill discussion took place.
GeoRed
>Date: Wed, 20 October 1999 10:17 PM EDT
>Message-id: <7ult29$5kb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>
Major snippage in order to add that I think you have hit on a cognizant point.
When *does* Mulder become the whipping boy? This is the thing that concerns
me. She has just seemed *mean* in the last couple of seasons. Not only do I
not like this from her, I don't like the feeling I am getting from
Mulder....that is, he is *taking* it. He lets her. There has even been a
rather dramatic difference in how Mulder reacts to Scully's behavior that I
don't care for. I *want* the Mulder of Field Trip....the Mulder that calls her
on it. He used to call her on it all the time. She may not realize what she is
doing (and based on FT I don't believe that she does) and until he calls her on
it, she will keep going. Her complaining seems endless.....I also want Mulder
to ask her why she is there the next time she whines. Simple wishes. <g>
Really, the problems I have with the show and Scully are so *easily* fixed. I
have my fingers crossed.
Heidi
::::::::with head in hands, rocking slowly::::::::::
"It just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter."
<Mulder: He's not just lean.......he's cuisine.>
mara...@my-deja.com
spoo...@aol.com1530 (Spooky2u2) wrote:
> sorry, I snipped a lot but I just needed to make the point that we as
> >viewers have only been allowed to view M & S in the work setting (for
the
> >most part). It's hard to say how they would act out of the work
setting.
> >We get hints that they do interact outside of work, (the football
game
> >and liberty bell, for two) but we rarely get to see it.
>
> <<<And that's why these brief scenes are so critically important. It's
a
> commonly held belief that moving forward with the Mulder/Scully
> relationship would alter M&S's working relationship and intrude on the
> mytharc and MOTW stories that 1013 was trying to tell. Imho, this view
is
> shortsighted and ignores the fact that we only catch a glimpse of
Mulder
> and Scully's personal lives a handful of times a season.
> Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say, thanks for making it
clearer ;)
> It bugs me that a lot of people have complained about Scully's
behavior "The
> unnatural"--"Scully would never act that way," but there is no way we
can say
> that because we've never been given the opportunity to see her in that
kind of
> situation before. They didn't have a case they were working on. M
was
> indulging a personal interest, not really a case. S was free to be
her "away
> from work" self with M. I see no problem with her behavior. She acted
like a
> real person. I think DD gave M & S a big push in the right direction
and he
> gave viewers a good idea of how M & S behave when out of the work
mode. That's
> a big reason why I love TU -- a great story and a glimpse at
"personal" M & S.
I don't see any problem with it either -- it seems that 1013 have
forgotten earlier bits of M and S interaction which were similar in
nature to that in TU, perhaps because they were afraid that it would
lead to shippiness. I think they've held back too much. We haven't been
allowed to see that these characters stick around for each other because
they like and respect each other on a number of levels, even though they
disagree.
There were plenty of examples of gentle teasing in earlier seasons which
I don't really see as 'Scully being a negative bitch' moments. I don't
see that there's anything too out of the ordinary about teasing your
friends. I am rudest to the people I love the most and as icily polite
as I can be to those I dislike ;) (however, I do agree that the way they
have continued to have Scully be not only skeptical but occasionally
somewhat whiny is annoying)
Examples of this sort of teasing interaction: there's the conversation
in the car in Aubrey where she says she's seen him go out on a pretty
big limb (after which Scully sort of smiles); That bit in Trevor and
even the rooftop scenes in FTF. Teasing. Perfectly normal, see :)
It's as if M and S interaction is some kind of plant and 1013's horror
of the 'ship is blocking out all its sunlight. Does this make sense? I
fear not :)
K.
55555555555555555555
Spooky2u2
I love this scene between them :-D Don't you get the impression that it's an
on going game and inside joke between just the two of them? -- "I had you big
time"---"You had nothing. I saw you turn the handle." hehehe It shows that
they do joke around and enjoy each other. Now, if we could only see a bit more
of *that* Scully.
>
>It's as if M and S interaction is some kind of plant and 1013's horror
>of the 'ship is blocking out all its sunlight. Does this make sense? I
>fear not :)
>
>K.
Hopefully they will lighten up this season. It seems like they were doing a
lot of "damage control" after the movie. I saw the teasing up until last
season-- correction-- up until 2 fathers.
GravesPA2
>and he
>> gave viewers a good idea of how M & S behave when out of the work
>mode. >>
The thing I really loved about The Unnatural was the cliche game in the first
Mulder/Scully scene. They leapt right into it, eyes shining, excited, having
fun---like they do this on a regular basis. And you know what? Two smart,
educated people who spend a lot of time together WOULD come up with little
games like that to pass the time on plane trips, stakeouts or just hanging
around the office doing paperwork. It made them see so NORMAL, so much like
real friends and partners. I loved that David let us see that side of our
heroes.
Paula Graves
mara...@my-deja.com
> >
> >It's as if M and S interaction is some kind of plant and 1013's
horror
> >of the 'ship is blocking out all its sunlight. Does this make sense?
I
> >fear not :)
> >
> >K.
>
> Hopefully they will lighten up this season. It seems like they were
> doing a lot of "damage control" after the movie.
To a ridiculous degree. Skepticism was a little hard to take after that
whacking great spaceship in FTF ;)
> I saw the teasing up until last
> season-- correction-- up until 2 fathers.
>
Ah, Two Fathers/One Son... the fount of all evil for shippers. Get thee
behind me Fowley...
<makes sign of cross with baguettes>
:)
.......................................
Spooky2u2
>horror
>> >of the 'ship is blocking out all its sunlight. Does this make sense?
>I
>> >fear not :)
>> >
>> >K.
>>
>> Hopefully they will lighten up this season. It seems like they were
>> doing a lot of "damage control" after the movie.
>
>To a ridiculous degree. Skepticism was a little hard to take after that
>whacking great spaceship in FTF ;)
I know, I cannot believe they could actually think they could get away with
that. Poor Scully's character got massacred. They knew it sounded rediculous.
They made Mulder the "bad guy" for pointing out how rediculous she sounded.
>
>> I saw the teasing up until last
>> season-- correction-- up until 2 fathers.
>>
>Ah, Two Fathers/One Son... the fount of all evil for shippers. Get thee
>behind me Fowley...
>
><makes sign of cross with baguettes>
foolish mortal-- the power of the 'ship overcomes all evil, even <gasp>
--nocontinuityorship!CC Love will find a way!! Bwahahhaa ;)