Exclusive: Chrissy Hofbeck talks 'Survivor' -- Ben Driebergen played awesome and deserved to win, but he found his last idol in seconds at the raft he sat at every morning

[Brian Smith]

The last part of this exit interview with Chrissy is telling. Like many of us she seems to hinting strongly that the placement of the HIIs left a lot to be desired. If her version of events is accurate Ben's victory has to rank as one of the most questionable ever.
______________________________________________________________

Exclusive: Chrissy Hofbeck talks 'Survivor' -- Ben Driebergen played awesome and deserved to win, but he found his last idol in seconds at the raft he sat at every morning

By Elizabeth Kwiatkowski, 12/21/2017

Chrissy Hofbeck finished Survivor: Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers as the runner-up during the live portion of Wednesday night's finale broadcast on CBS.

Chrissy, a 46-year-old actuary who currently resides in Lebanon Township, NJ, lost out on the $1 million grand prize when the Season 35 jury voted for Ben Driebergen to win.

Ben, a 34-year-old former U.S. Marine from Boise, ID, was shown receiving four jury votes, while Chrissy received two and the third-place finisher, Ryan Ulrich, earned himself one vote. (One jury vote was not unveiled by Survivor host Jeff Probst during the reunion show).

Devon Pinto finished the season in fourth place, while Mike "Dr. Mike" Zahalsky claimed fifth.

During an exclusive interview with Reality TV World on Thursday, Chrissy talked about her Survivor experience and coming so close to victory. Below is what she had to say.

Reality TV World: Congratulations you made it as far as you did, but I'm sorry you didn't win.

Chrissy Hofbeck: I mean, I'm very happy with how I played. I feel good. I feel proud of how I did.

Reality TV World: Were you surprised by the final jury votes? Were you surprised to receive Ashley Nolan's vote, and could you confirm whom the other vote for you was from?

Chrissy Hofbeck: Okay, so I'll say the jury votes could have gone either way. I think all three of us had a really good relationship with everyone on the jury.

I got my two votes from Ashley and Dr. Mike. I was not at all surprised that Ashley voted for me; I was not surprised that Mike voted for me. I think any of the jury votes really could have gone either way between us.

I think all three of us played very different games, and at the end of the day, it just came down to, "Which game did the jury like the best?" I think we all played awesome games. I think Ben and I both deserved to win and the jury gave Ben the votes, and that's okay. They preferred his gameplay.

Reality TV World: Do you know what gave Ben the edge?

Chrissy Hofbeck: You know, there's some talk that [hidden] Immunity Idols are more flashy than Individual Immunity wins, because the jury sees the Immunity Idol play, you know?

They don't really see the immunity wins. So when they're thinking about who should be the winner, idols in their mind could weigh heavier than challenges. Ultimately, I think he had a great story. [Ben] is a Marine, he really pushed through.

I think all of that really helped Ben, but I don't want to diminish Ben's game either, right? Ben played an awesome game. I think I also played an awesome game and it could've gone either way. And I think it was a hard decision for the jury; I think it was a hard decision for them. I don't think this was a slam dunk for anyone on the jury.

Reality TV World: For a moment during the final jury questioning, I thought you had won. You seemed to win Lauren Rimmer over with your speech about being a mom, which she can totally relate to, so do you think anything went wrong or could have said anything else to help you win?

Chrissy Hofbeck: No, I swear I did my best. I'm not going to look back on my game and have regrets, because I did so much better than I thought I was going to do, and I'm really proud of what I did.

So I really thought -- I felt going into the Final Tribal Council that [Joe Mena] and [Cole Medders] were definitely going to vote for Ben because they all kind of played the same kind of game. So I thought those two would really respect Ben's game the most. And I really thought that I would get Dr. Mike and Ashley.

We all just had a really great relationship. The swing votes for me were Lauren, [JP Hilsabeck] and [Desi Williams], whom I thought could really go either way. Those were the three whom I said, "They could go either way." I was just waiting to hear how it played out.

Of course when I watched the episode last night, I felt that Ben won when I saw all of the personal content in the final episode, when Ben started talking about being a vet and having PTSD and sending his kids to college. And Ryan and I didn't have any of that content. I was pretty sure going into the vote that Ben had won this, and I probably said something to Ben as such.

Reality TV World: Whom do you think would have won the game if Ben hadn't been saved by the new fire-starting challenge and the Final 3 had been Ryan, Devon and yourself?

Chrissy Hofbeck: I'm sure Ryan probably has a different answer to this than I do, so I was genuinely heartbroken for Devon in the fire-making challenge. I feel Devon, Ryan and I definitely would have gone to the end as a strong Final 3.

I do think that in the end, I would have won the game because of my challenge performances while being so much older than everyone else. And I know there was some talk about me not having a good social game, but I actually had really good relationships with people out there.

I know they showed that scene at Final Tribal Council where I said that thing to [Joe Mena], but I did have some really good, solid conversations with everyone out there. So I think in that case, I would have won.

But I don't want to take away from Devon and Ryan's game. They both played awesome games; they were just both very different. And I think my challenge wins would have kind of sealed that.

Reality TV World: If you didn't win so many Individual Immunity necklaces, when do you think you would've gone home? Because castaways were definitely targeting you a couple of times.

Chrissy Hofbeck: Yeah, so, I actually think that I would've gone home after JP. I think that first [immunity victory] was the worst placement that I had in the game. I think I was probably next to go after JP but I won the clutch immunity, [spelling] "invulnerable."

I think there was actually a secret scene when they decided they were sending me home next. However, having survived that, I don't necessarily know that I would've gone home with the last three wins only because Ryan and I, I felt we were very tight.

He may tell a different story, but I also felt I was close with Devon, I don't know. I don't think I would've gone home at the last three [Tribals]. I think I would've gone home at the Joe vote out, but after that, I probably would have made Final 3 just based on the relationships I had built out there.

Reality TV World: Of all the seasons to have a huge twist at the end in which the immunity winner can only choose one person to take to Final 3, it was your season. It seems like if it hadn't been for that, you would've won. Is that especially frustrating for you or does the twist make your loss a little easier to take since things were out of your hands at that point?

Chrissy Hofbeck: Honestly, I would say neither. I love this game. There have always been twists in this game, and this particular one didn't benefit me. But I don't want to look on it and feel frustrated or think about what could've happened, because at the end of the day, I'm really proud of how I played.

I'm really proud of how I played. I think Ben also played an awesome game, and I don't want to take anything away from him. I think there's a little bit of backlash against Ben for how it played out, and I don't think that's fair to Ben either.

[The twist] sent him to three. I love him. It played out how it played out. So, neither. I mean, of course I would have liked to have won, but I want to come away feeling really proud of what I accomplished.

Reality TV World: Would you play Survivor again if given the chance?

Chrissy Hofbeck: You know, I don't know. At this point, probably not. I feel like a lot of people play again because they want to do better next time, but again, I feel really proud of how I did. I feel proud of how I played. I don't think I'd play again to try to win.

If I had won, then I would say yes, because I would have loved to play an all-winners season. One of the reasons of course that I wanted to win was because I would love to have played in an all-winners season. But now that I didn't win, I think I'm happy with how I did.

I would love to play The Amazing Race or something. I would love to go on The Amazing Race with one of my kids. That would be huge for me. That I would do in a second. But, you know, I say if Jeff Probst called me himself and say, "Chrissy, I need to have you play my game again," then I'd think about it strongly. (Laughs)

Reality TV World: Do you think hidden Immunity Idols are getting out of hand in this game? I mean, it almost seems to be at the point where strategy doesn't matter anymore and it's more about luck and whether you stumble across an idol clue or something.

Chrissy Hofbeck: Yeah, I mean, I think my issue with the Immunity Idols this time is it just seemed that they were very easy to find. And I feel like the edit appears that Ben was up all night searching for Immunity Idols, but I don't really think that was the case.

I seem to remember, especially after Mike went home, we came back to camp. And yes, Ben went to the well for water like he always did, and he came back to bed and he got up the next morning and found the idol in like 12 seconds at the raft that he always sat at in the morning.

So I think that -- maybe it's not a question of the number of idols -- but I do think they need to be maybe harder to find so that it's not a slam dunk that every single time an Immunity Idol is reintroduced to the game, that someone is necessarily going to find it.

And I know that the rest of us had gotten a lot of heat for not following Ben, but truly -- first of all, if we're going to follow him and he's going to find it, it's still going to be his first, right? And second of all, I just don't think that all of us were sitting around while Ben was searching for an idol for 12 hours. Because it didn't happen like that.

Read more at http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/exclusive-chrissy-hofbeck-talks-survivor----ben-driebergen-played-awesome-and-deserved-win-but-he-found-his-last-idol-in-seconds-at-raft-he-sat-at-every-morning-23269.php#js9QKy9zM15v13PL.99

--
Brian

[Emanuel Berg]

> Reality TV World: Do you think hidden
> Immunity Idols are getting out of hand in
> this game?

Most definitely.

Also it is a thing with the US format/edit.
First scene you see someone looking for an
idol, you know [s]he will find it.

In the Australian season, there were many
scenes that didn't "end up" in anything -
including scenes when people were looking for
the idol without find it, fishing without
getting a fish, making fire without having it
catch on, etc.

Which makes for a much better show in more ways
than one.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

[The Horny Goat]

On Tue, 02 Jan 2018 06:48:09 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>> Reality TV World: Do you think hidden
>> Immunity Idols are getting out of hand in
>> this game?
>
>Most definitely.
>
>Also it is a thing with the US format/edit.
>First scene you see someone looking for an
>idol, you know [s]he will find it.
>
>In the Australian season, there were many
>scenes that didn't "end up" in anything -
>including scenes when people were looking for
>the idol without find it, fishing without
>getting a fish, making fire without having it
>catch on, etc.
>

Didn't they have someone a season or two ago come painfully close to a
HII not find it and have someone else come along shortly thereafter
(it could really have been several hours but the editing looked like
there was a short time between) and scoop it?

We've had a couple of scenes where players have found clues to an
already found idol and we've seen the idol-holder scratching his chin
while watching people go crazy over the clue.

[Brian Smith]

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 11:12:36 PM UTC-7, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Jan 2018 06:48:09 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Reality TV World: Do you think hidden
> >> Immunity Idols are getting out of hand in
> >> this game?
> >
> >Most definitely.
> >
> >Also it is a thing with the US format/edit.
> >First scene you see someone looking for an
> >idol, you know [s]he will find it.
> >
> >In the Australian season, there were many
> >scenes that didn't "end up" in anything -
> >including scenes when people were looking for
> >the idol without find it, fishing without
> >getting a fish, making fire without having it
> >catch on, etc.
> >
> Didn't they have someone a season or two ago come painfully close to a
> HII not find it and have someone else come along shortly thereafter
> (it could really have been several hours but the editing looked like
> there was a short time between) and scoop it?

Was that S32? The season Michele won.

> We've had a couple of scenes where players have found clues to an
> already found idol and we've seen the idol-holder scratching his chin
> while watching people go crazy over the clue.

And in the early days of HIIs we saw plenty of examples of people not being able to find them because the clues were much more cryptic. Now they basically directly point out to the person where they are because they love the drama that HIIs can add to the game.

--
Brian

[Brian Smith]

Having longer and more episodes helps a lot in that regard. If the Australian version lasts as long as the U.S. one which is doubtful, I believe you'll see their show evolve the same way as the U.S. one. The show will become a lot more about the competitive and strategic aspects of the game and a whole lot less about the conditions unless you have medevacs. Production and the networks don't like stuff like that because it can throw the schedule off and cost them millions of dollars. That's why the show is unlikely to ever go back to Cambodia or Samoa.

--
Brian

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-02 05:14:38 +0000, Brian Smith said:

> If her version of events is accurate Ben's victory has to rank as one
> of the most questionable ever.

OMG, you mean if the sourpuss loser who got played is to be believed?

The sourpuss loser who sat on the beach and said, "we're too tired to
have five of us watch him all the time"??

The sourpuss loser who tried, and transparently failed, to make
"personal" connections with everyone for the purpose of saying so at
FTC?

I love me some big-titted MILF in a bikini, but that sourpuss bitch
should have gone very early on. I don't care what else you may think
about the season, her talk track is to be dismissed like a bum on the
street yelling at the world.

[Emanuel Berg]

Brian Smith wrote:

> And in the early days of HIIs we saw plenty
> of examples of people not being able to find
> them because the clues were much
> more cryptic.

That's true! Often several clues were needed
because the first was basically telling you the
idol was somewhere on the island :)

> Now they basically directly point out to the
> person where they are because they love the
> drama that HIIs can add to the game.

But do it to often - for example three times in
a row in the endgame - there is a devaluation
of that drama...

[Emanuel Berg]

Brian Smith wrote:

> The show will become a lot more about the
> competitive and strategic aspects

Australia S04 was just as competitive and
strategic as any US season - and more so, as is
involved 24 castaways (US S35 had only 18) -
and remember, this isn't just a difference of
6, it is more, as for every single one voted
off everyone that remains gets more experience,
so the game is elevated to an even higher level
for everyone.

> of the game and a whole lot less about the
> conditions unless you have medevacs.

In almost every tribe vs. tribe IC, there were
someone falling off the shoulders of someone
else or otherwise fell smashing down into the
ground. There were no medevacs but how that
came to be knows only Jehovah.

Granted, these people are young, fit, and
filled with adrenaline in a tight challange...

And also, Aussies are perhaps a little bit
tougher than Americans in general :)

> Production and the networks don't like stuff
> like that because it can throw the schedule
> off and cost them millions of dollars.
> That's why the show is unlikely to ever go
> back to Cambodia or Samoa.

And here is the undisputed proof. Because the
location of Survivor Australia S04 was Upolu,
Samoa [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoa

[zeppo]

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 9:14:40 PM UTC-8, Brian Smith quoted Chrissy:

>
> Chrissy Hofbeck: Yeah, I mean, I think my issue with the Immunity Idols this time is it just seemed that they were very easy to find.

If they were so easy to find, why was Ben the only player who was finding them?

>
> I seem to remember, especially after Mike went home, we came back to camp. And yes, Ben went to the well for water like he always did, and he came back to bed and he got up the next morning and found the idol in like 12 seconds at the raft that he always sat at in the morning.

I'm not sure where she gets the "twelve seconds" from, but I suspect that Chrissy's recollection of the
sequence of events is generally accurate. BTW, she should have said Ashley instead of Mike.

> And I know that the rest of us had gotten a lot of heat for not following Ben, but truly -- first of all, if we're going to follow him and he's going to find it, it's still going to be his first, right?

It appears that Chrissy doesn't understand, or doesn't want to acknowledge, the enormity of the error
that she and her allies made by not looking for the idols themselves. She is right that they were easy
to find, so why didn't she, Bellboy, Devon, Mike, and Ashley divide the area around camp into 4 or 5
sections, and search each of them thoroughly? Together, they would be able to cover more ground than
Ben could by himself, and if one of them was to find an idol, then Ben would have been voted out of the
game prior to F3.

[Emanuel Berg]

zeppo wrote:

> She is right that they were easy to find, so
> why didn't she, Bellboy, Devon, Mike, and
> Ashley divide the area around camp into 4 or
> 5 sections, and search each of them
> thoroughly?

Well, it is easy to be all rational about it in
retrospect. But then and there at that stage of
the game people are completely lethargic and it
wasn't known that the idols were that easy to
find or that Ben would find three of them.
It was even a Survivor first as "Bellboy" said.

OTOH the game has been heading that way for
several years and this is the tragic
extrapolation of that tendency. Both Bellboy
and Chrissy were "students of the game".
So yes, they should have looked harder.

Still, to us, it is evident what is happening.
To them, Chrissy & Co., it is just another day
being completely drained in the shelter and
someone is off getting water.

Wasn't Ben as lethargic? Yes, but he was
desperate, so he *had* to find them. Which he
did, so power to him.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-02 21:02:06 +0000, zeppo said:

>> Chrissy Hofbeck: Yeah, I mean, I think my issue with the Immunity Idols
>> this time is it just seemed that they were very easy to find.
> If they were so easy to find, why was Ben the only player who was finding them?

Because Chrissy et al. were too goddam lazy to be believed.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-02 21:02:06 +0000, zeppo said:

>> And I know that the rest of us had gotten a lot of heat for not
>> following Ben, but truly -- first of all, if we're going to follow him
>> and he's going to find it, it's still going to be his first, right?
> It appears that Chrissy doesn't understand, or doesn't want to
> acknowledge, the enormity of the error
> that she and her allies made by not looking for the idols themselves.
> She is right that they were easy
> to find, so why didn't she, Bellboy, Devon, Mike, and Ashley divide the
> area around camp into 4 or 5
> sections, and search each of them thoroughly? Together, they would be
> able to cover more ground than
> Ben could by himself, and if one of them was to find an idol, then Ben
> would have been voted out of thegame prior to F3.

Not to mention the elephant in the room: if they had bothered to keep
an eye on Ben 24/7--how about divide the day up, or everyone gets an
hour of following him and they rotate?--then Ben's behavior as he
searched would have changed. At the very least he would have been
flustered.

And of course, worst case then they would have GODDAMN KNOWN FOR A FACT
that he had an idol. Instead Chrissy gets...THE BEN BOMB!

They didn't even have to search for themselves, although the cardinal
rule is "never give up immunity" (ask Ian about that) which also
translates into "why the FUCK did you sit on your asses and give up
what were several easy chances for immunity?".

There is NO analysis in which anyone BUT Ben deserved to win, no matter
how you look at it.

[Emanuel Berg]

Aloha Spicoli wrote:

> So what I'd like to know is, did production
> see the laziness on the part of Chrissy,
> Devon, Ryan and Mike and say "Let's punish
> them by ensuring Ben finds these idols"?
> I hope so, they would have deserved it.

Do they interfere actively based on what people
do on the show, based on who they perceive
deserve to be punished or rewarded?

Or do they have a plan from day one, "if the
idol is found on day N, it will be reintroduced
on day (N + 1) at location X..."

?

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-03 15:37:49 +0000, Aloha Ray Walston said:

> So what I'd like to know is, did production see the laziness on the
> part of Chrissy, Devon, Ryan and Mike and say "Let's punish them by
> ensuring Ben finds these idols"? I hope so, they would have deserved
> it.

Oh, they saw this laziness all right. And they did actively want to
use it. Maybe not "let's punish them," but at the very least "let's
feed them all enough rope to hang themselves and see what they do with
it". Let's face it: it makes for good, profitable TV.

There's no doubt in my mind this was all deliberate on the part of the
producers, whether they did it with the intention of driving a win for
Ben in particular or not.

But if someone at Survivor LLC *did* want to drive the win for Ben,
these idiots handed him the opportunity on a silver platter.

Does anyone want to continue to think that this is some honest
gentlemen's game with all of it left to play out by chance?

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-03 17:53:34 +0000, Emanuel Berg said:

> Aloha Spicoli wrote:
>
>> So what I'd like to know is, did production
>> see the laziness on the part of Chrissy,
>> Devon, Ryan and Mike and say "Let's punish
>> them by ensuring Ben finds these idols"?
>> I hope so, they would have deserved it.
>
> Do they interfere actively based on what people
> do on the show, based on who they perceive
> deserve to be punished or rewarded?
>
> Or do they have a plan from day one, "if the
> idol is found on day N, it will be reintroduced
> on day (N + 1) at location X..."
>
> ?

hell no. They're making profitable TV using ad-hoc, unscripted actors.
They interfere actively based on things that happen, human nature, etc.

The millions of dollars that are at stake are not left to chance for
these unscripted people to mess with.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-04 11:29:56 +0000, Aloha Ray Walston said:

> That said, I do like to question the level the
> manipulation will go to in order to provide said entertainment.

Only one thing matters: the money.

There is no boundary in Hollywood that will keep the players (by that,
I mean the Hollywood players) from their money.

Any perceived line will get pushed every day, and with every lack of
consequences it will get pushed even farther.

The level of manipulation is so far beyond what you can imagine, you'd
be shocked if you were a fly on the wall at production meetings.

[Questor]

On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 18:53:34 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> wrote:
>Aloha Spicoli wrote:
>> So what I'd like to know is, did production
>> see the laziness on the part of Chrissy,
>> Devon, Ryan and Mike and say "Let's punish
>> them by ensuring Ben finds these idols"?
>> I hope so, they would have deserved it.
>
>Do they interfere actively based on what people
>do on the show, based on who they perceive
>deserve to be punished or rewarded?
>
>Or do they have a plan from day one, "if the
>idol is found on day N, it will be reintroduced
>on day (N + 1) at location X..."

Of course they have a plan. The logistical issues alone demand it. They cannot
stage a show like Survivor, hundreds of miles away from any major population
center, without having all the necessary crew members, equipment, and spare
parts on hand. If they run out of supplies or something breaks they cannot
simply drive to a nearby store for replacements. So they must know everything
that will be needed in advance.

There are obviously limits on the number of sites available to hold challenges,
each of which must be built and tested in advance, then torn down to make room
for the next one. Clearly they need to know the sequence of challenges in order
to do this.

I suspect they have a flowchart that delineates the possible outcomes. After
the first immunity challange/tribal council, one team (it doesn't matter which
one) will be down a player. The chart will split into two paths after the
second IC/TC, as either both teams will have lost one member, or one team will
have lost twice. More branches are created after the third IC/TC, etc. There
are probably also contingency plans at different points dictating what action to
take if someone is removed for medical reasons, etc.

Similarly, there are probably guidelines that dictate if and when a hidden
immunity idol will be replaced, and a list of predetermined locations to hide
it. As soon as an idol is played at TC, staff near camp would be alerted so
they can hide another one immediately while the players are away from the area.

While occasionally improvisation may be required -- such as when severe weather
floods a challenge site -- a production the size and length of Survivor cannot
be run "on the fly."

[Questor]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 05:12:43 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:

>On 2018-01-03 17:53:34 +0000, Emanuel Berg said:
>> Aloha Spicoli wrote:
>>> So what I'd like to know is, did production
>>> see the laziness on the part of Chrissy,
>>> Devon, Ryan and Mike and say "Let's punish
>>> them by ensuring Ben finds these idols"?
>>> I hope so, they would have deserved it.
>>
>> Do they interfere actively based on what people
>> do on the show, based on who they perceive
>> deserve to be punished or rewarded?
>>
>> Or do they have a plan from day one, "if the
>> idol is found on day N, it will be reintroduced
>> on day (N + 1) at location X..."
>

>hell no. They're making profitable TV using ad-hoc, unscripted actors.
> They interfere actively based on things that happen, human nature, etc.
>
>The millions of dollars that are at stake are not left to chance for
>these unscripted people to mess with.

There's Elmo again, singing the same old song -- an oldie but a goodie!

Once more, you argue that the Survivor production staff determine the outcome of
the game, based on... nothing more than your say-so. As always, you have not
one shred of evidence. Your argument seems to be that because it's a
profit-making enterprise, it directly follows that they engage in unscrupulous
and illegal behavior -- an absurdly flimsy premise that doesn't stand up to ten
seconds of scrutiny.

[The Horny Goat]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 05:12:43 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty
<el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>hell no. They're making profitable TV using ad-hoc, unscripted actors.
> They interfere actively based on things that happen, human nature, etc.
>
>The millions of dollars that are at stake are not left to chance for
>these unscripted people to mess with.

Burnett has said that every challenge has a backup challenge available
in case inclement weather or some other factor make running the
planned challenge for that day unfeasible.

Given that each challenge is shipped by barge from the US and
assembled on the island by crew carpenters this is not all that
shocking.

[The Horny Goat]

On Fri, 05 Jan 2018 03:02:13 GMT, use...@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:

>There's Elmo again, singing the same old song -- an oldie but a goodie!
>
>Once more, you argue that the Survivor production staff determine the outcome of
>the game, based on... nothing more than your say-so. As always, you have not
>one shred of evidence. Your argument seems to be that because it's a
>profit-making enterprise, it directly follows that they engage in unscrupulous
>and illegal behavior -- an absurdly flimsy premise that doesn't stand up to ten
>seconds of scrutiny.

I would suggest to you that EVERY pro sports league cares a great deal
about each team being profitable.

That does not equate to the Super Bowl, World Series, Stanley Cup
final etc being pre-arranged in advance and I strongly suspect that
live game attendance and TV ratings would be much lower if an
appreciable number of people thought so!.

[Brian Smith]

On Thursday, January 4, 2018 at 8:01:49 PM UTC-7, Questor wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 18:53:34 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com> wrote:
> >Aloha Spicoli wrote:
> >> So what I'd like to know is, did production
> >> see the laziness on the part of Chrissy,
> >> Devon, Ryan and Mike and say "Let's punish
> >> them by ensuring Ben finds these idols"?
> >> I hope so, they would have deserved it.
> >
> >Do they interfere actively based on what people
> >do on the show, based on who they perceive
> >deserve to be punished or rewarded?
> >
> >Or do they have a plan from day one, "if the
> >idol is found on day N, it will be reintroduced
> >on day (N + 1) at location X..."
>
> Of course they have a plan. The logistical issues alone demand it. They cannot
> stage a show like Survivor, hundreds of miles away from any major population
> center, without having all the necessary crew members, equipment, and spare
> parts on hand. If they run out of supplies or something breaks they cannot
> simply drive to a nearby store for replacements. So they must know everything
> that will be needed in advance.

They definitely have a plan and we've seen proof of that before. I can't recall which season it was but there were legit leaks of daily schedules and we discussed it here. The days challenges will be held, TCs, etc. is all mapped out in advance. Yes, the rulebook does say they can change the rules on the fly but that is different than making huge production changes. Elmo should understand this b/c to do so would cost big bucks and we all agree maximizing profits is the end game. It's how they go about doing so that Elmo doesn't agree with us.

> There are obviously limits on the number of sites available to hold challenges,
> each of which must be built and tested in advance, then torn down to make room
> for the next one. Clearly they need to know the sequence of challenges in order
> to do this.

For sure. They would need to have a massive area to be able to setup all of the challenges in advance.

> I suspect they have a flowchart that delineates the possible outcomes. After
> the first immunity challange/tribal council, one team (it doesn't matter which
> one) will be down a player. The chart will split into two paths after the
> second IC/TC, as either both teams will have lost one member, or one team will
> have lost twice. More branches are created after the third IC/TC, etc. There
> are probably also contingency plans at different points dictating what action to
> take if someone is removed for medical reasons, etc.

That makes sense to me but we do know with certainty that they don't have backup plans or answers for everything.

> Similarly, there are probably guidelines that dictate if and when a hidden
> immunity idol will be replaced, and a list of predetermined locations to hide
> it. As soon as an idol is played at TC, staff near camp would be alerted so
> they can hide another one immediately while the players are away from the area.

Players from past seasons seem to be in agreement that when and if HIIs will be replaced is well documented. Maybe not for us but it seems to be for players. We have no idea what additional info they're given before the game starts. Also, they are allowed to ask producers questions during the game to clarify things.

Where they decide to hide HIIs is a mystery to everyone outside of production. I doubt they'll ever tell anyone what criteria they use but I think it's safe to say as time went on they made it a lot easier for them to be found.

> While occasionally improvisation may be required -- such as when severe weather
> floods a challenge site -- a production the size and length of Survivor cannot
> be run "on the fly."

Or if it's unsafe to a certain challenge like that one season where Jeff said they had to eliminate most of the water challenges. The last thing production and CBS want to see happen is someone getting killed or seriously injured during filming. But there's no way they're going to build challenges at the last minute to help create the story they want.

--
Brian

[The Horny Goat]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 21:37:59 -0800 (PST), Brian Smith
<dcg_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> There are obviously limits on the number of sites available to hold challenges,
>> each of which must be built and tested in advance, then torn down to make room
>> for the next one. Clearly they need to know the sequence of challenges in order
>> to do this.
>
>For sure. They would need to have a massive area to be able to setup all of the challenges in advance.

There are said to be 300 staffers for each show everybody from JP
through the carpenters, medical staff, production assistants who
demonstrate how each challenge work and a small army of cameramen.

We also know that US shoots operating outside the US are required to
comply with all occupational safety regulations.

Several of us myself included have argued that there's a master
flowchart of days events where MB and JP have worked out as many
contingencies as possible. We have never seen this but it makes sense
given the daily costs of shooting which have been publicly discussed
and how much it would cost them to have everyone sit on their hands
for a day.

I do believe that might have been a realistic possibility though after
35 seasons you would expect their contingency planning to be more
rigorous than back in season 1 when they hadn't yet fully worked out
their 'formula'.

[Certainly other non-reality shows have said that they have
contingency plans for the sudden removal (either by dealth, critical
injury or any other factor) of any lead character in their show.
Babylon 5 was particularly open in discussing their contingency
planning!]

[The Horny Goat]

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 21:37:59 -0800 (PST), Brian Smith
<dcg_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Of course they have a plan. The logistical issues alone demand it. They cannot
>> stage a show like Survivor, hundreds of miles away from any major population
>> center, without having all the necessary crew members, equipment, and spare
>> parts on hand. If they run out of supplies or something breaks they cannot
>> simply drive to a nearby store for replacements. So they must know everything
>> that will be needed in advance.
>
>They definitely have a plan and we've seen proof of that before. I can't recall which season it was but there were legit leaks of daily schedules and we discussed it here. The days challenges will be held, TCs, etc. is all mapped out in advance. Yes, the rulebook does say they can change the rules on the fly but that is different than making huge production changes. Elmo should understand this b/c to do so would cost big bucks and we all agree maximizing profits is the end game. It's how they go about doing so that Elmo doesn't agree with us.

While they haven't discussed it you can safely assume they have had
bull sessions with key production staff on what went well and what
didn't. After 35 seasons you can reasonably assume they have made a
priority on reinforcing what worked and avoiding what didn't to remove
or anticipate unplanned events as much as possible. Since Murphy's Law
still exists obviously they can't cover everything but are undoubtedly
anticipating more than they did in season 1 since MB isn't stupid and
has more experience to draw on!

>> There are obviously limits on the number of sites available to hold challenges,
>> each of which must be built and tested in advance, then torn down to make room
>> for the next one. Clearly they need to know the sequence of challenges in order
>> to do this.

It has been said that each "island" has 3 or 4 challenge sites and
that while each challenge is being done the carpenters and other crew
are readying the next one elsewhere. Again - nothing surprising on
this point.

>For sure. They would need to have a massive area to be able to setup all of the challenges in advance.

MB has said they typically plan all challenges in the US, have a
couple in reserve and barge all supplies needed from US ports to the
shooting location and that this typically means the barges have to
leave the US roughly 4-6 weeks before the rest of the crew. (He said
that back around season 5-6 so things may have changed in the meantime
though to me all of the above seems plausible so if they've found a
routine MB likes I strongly suspect they'd be tweaking rather than
routinely making wholesale changes each time.

>> I suspect they have a flowchart that delineates the possible outcomes. After
>> the first immunity challange/tribal council, one team (it doesn't matter which
>> one) will be down a player. The chart will split into two paths after the
>> second IC/TC, as either both teams will have lost one member, or one team will
>> have lost twice. More branches are created after the third IC/TC, etc. There
>> are probably also contingency plans at different points dictating what action to
>> take if someone is removed for medical reasons, etc.
>
>That makes sense to me but we do know with certainty that they don't have backup plans or answers for everything.

Again you're clearly right BUT I'd be astonished if they're not
anticipating more than they were back in seasons 4-5. They're not
stupid so have clearly learned from their mistakes along the way and
MB >HAS< acknowledged mistakes have been made but hasn't discussed
what they were. Again they are known to have production bull sessions
after each season where they privately discuss what worked well and
what didn't.

>> Similarly, there are probably guidelines that dictate if and when a hidden
>> immunity idol will be replaced, and a list of predetermined locations to hide
>> it. As soon as an idol is played at TC, staff near camp would be alerted so
>> they can hide another one immediately while the players are away from the area.

Typically production staff have 2-3 weeks at each site for setup and
to allow production staff to scout the area. One of the things they
would definitely scout for on the island would be suitable HII
locations and you can safely assume that any chosen HII location would
also be paired with a suitable camera location for shooting it.

>Players from past seasons seem to be in agreement that when and if HIIs will be replaced is well documented. Maybe not for us but it seems to be for players. We have no idea what additional info they're given before the game starts. Also, they are allowed to ask producers questions during the game to clarify things.
>
>Where they decide to hide HIIs is a mystery to everyone outside of production. I doubt they'll ever tell anyone what criteria they use but I think it's safe to say as time went on they made it a lot easier for them to be found.
>
>> While occasionally improvisation may be required -- such as when severe weather
>> floods a challenge site -- a production the size and length of Survivor cannot
>> be run "on the fly."

They have DEFINITELY confirmed that some challenges shown were not the
primary challenge they had planned on running that day but have not
discussed which were the backups. Why should they? They do repeat some
of their better challenges.

I still like the Aussie Survivor challenge where about a week before
the end the challenge was to give them a full length mirror and each
had to guess their current weight. I _believe_ the winner was judged
in terms of %age different rather than raw poundage lost as that would
give an edge to the smaller contestants (since they would presumably
have lost less weight since they had less to lose - Richard Hatch
confirmed he lost 35+ pounds on Palua Tiga which is remarkable as he
said that the reason he had belly folds was that he had lost just
under 100 lbs in the 12 months before going on the show!)

Again - while MB and crew don't reveal everything by a long shot most
of it is predictable by those who have seen the show and know the
costs of production screwups and know unanticipated events cost them
big $$$ so that every step is made to avoid these.

This is making a TV show - it's not nearly the complexity of doing a
space shot!

[Emanuel Berg]

Aloha Spicoli wrote:

> The game is obviously planned out and they
> adapt to circumstances without question
> (quite well IMO). That said, they can still
> make an idol easier to find than normal.
> It's a subtle way of manipulation and
> IMO acceptable.

The game and season and all the logistics of
challanges etc. are well planned, everyone
understands that and it is another thing
altogether (actually the opposite).

The issue is, is the game *manipulated* during
the active game period to favor certain players
in ceratin predicaments? E.g., "OK, Ben is in
trouble, the other guys too lazy, let's be
quick about reintroducing the HII and not make
it that hard for him to find".

If anyone says this is the case, how about
providing some evidence or at least some
indication this is how it is?

[Brian Smith]

I don't think it is the case except for very possibly this season. Here's why I think that. The HIIs at the end of the game were hidden in places that Ben frequented very often. I can't recall them ever doing that before. Despite that aid the others still would have got Ben out of the game if it wasn't for the F4 advantage/twist. Was that planned in advance? We'll never know unless someone from production spills some tea but coming up with that at the last second would have been very easy to do. Setting up a firemaking challenge would be very simple to do. Even though that still didn't guarantee a Ben win it did give him a very good shot at making it to F3. I don't think there was any chance of Ryan or Chrissy beating Ben in a firemaking challenge and there was a decent chance of Devon winning the F4 IC. For me something just didn't seem right with how this season played out at the end.

Don't take this as gospel but there is talk that S36 has even more HIIs than S35. I won't be surprised if that is the case given the theme of the season. I'm fearing a twist every episode that will result in so many HIIs and advantages that we won't be able to keep track of what is going on. And apparently the cast is very young...possibly the youngest ever which might not be the best thing for strategic game play.

--
Brian

[Emanuel Berg]

Brian Smith wrote:

> I don't think it is the case except for very
> possibly this season. Here's why I think
> that. The HIIs at the end of the game were
> hidden in places that Ben frequented
> very often.

Yeah, but Ben probably frequented all the key
areas... just as he, and everyone else for that
matter, should.

> I can't recall them ever doing that before.
> Despite that aid the others still would have
> got Ben out of the game if it wasn't for the
> F4 advantage/twist. Was that planned in
> advance? We'll never know unless someone from
> production spills some tea but coming up with
> that at the last second would have been very
> easy to do.

I don't think they did that ad hoc to save Ben
and the reason I don't think that is that F4
twist is in line with all the other detrimental
stuff that has been going on for many seasons,
but really exploded this season and the "game
changers" season, where there are idols,
advantages, twists, and supposed "fireworks"
really every single episode - at the expense of
the human side of the strategic game - and this
F4 twist is in line with that - instead of
letting the players play the game and each
other, have a fire making challenge for the
kids! Even more sad since when there were fire
making challenges in the past because of
deadlocks those were truly exciting. It is the
same logic with HIIs. If it happens once, it is
exciting. So the studio thinks it has to happen
every episode. But they are wrong - this ruins
the game and make those dramatic events much
less dramatic!

> Don't take this as gospel but there is talk
> that S36 has even more HIIs than S35.

Oh, no!

Maybe S37 the twist will be, there are
no twists anymore :)

> And apparently the cast is very
> young...possibly the youngest ever which
> might not be the best thing for strategic
> game play.

Don't say that! There will be the entire
spectrum. Kids are good with games and
emotionally not advanced, their emotions all
the more powerful and the mental/physical
connection stronger or at least more visible to
the outside world. It'll be Lord of the Flies
or Battle Royal all over :))

[Brian Smith]

On Friday, January 5, 2018 at 9:41:43 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:

> Brian Smith wrote:
>
> > Don't take this as gospel but there is talk
> > that S36 has even more HIIs than S35.
>
> Oh, no!
>
> Maybe S37 the twist will be, there are
> no twists anymore :)

That would be nice. Or at least just stick to HIIs and one or two advantages that are preferably won and not found.

> > And apparently the cast is very
> > young...possibly the youngest ever which
> > might not be the best thing for strategic
> > game play.
>
> Don't say that! There will be the entire
> spectrum. Kids are good with games and
> emotionally not advanced, their emotions all
> the more powerful and the mental/physical
> connection stronger or at least more visible to
> the outside world. It'll be Lord of the Flies
> or Battle Royal all over :))

I haven't calculated any averages but if the info floating around is correct the males range in age from 18 to 41 with two in their 30s. The females age in range from 21 to 43 with two in their 30s but one of those is only 30. We'll probably find out for sure in a few weeks but I think this info is correct with one or two exceptions.

This might make you feel better. Word is that there are three models and an NFL cheerleader. If the cheerleader is who people are claiming then she would appear to be an ex-cheerleader who also cheered in the NBA. No idea who she cheered for but interestingly she has a website under construction. Is she planning on cashing in on her Survivor appearance.

One other tidbit of info. Ash knows (friends?) one of the cast members. After seeing some pics of this girl I wish Survivor was on cable. ;-)

--
Brian

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-05 05:37:59 +0000, Brian Smith said:

> Yes, the rulebook does say they can change the rules on the fly but
> that is different than making huge production changes.

I don't think I ever said they would make huge production changes.

I simply said, they will change the game up and take advantage of
whatever the situation is, on the fly, as they see fit to maximize
revenues and/or fulfill whatever other goals they may have.

Ben's win was a great example of that.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-05 05:37:59 +0000, Brian Smith said:

> Players from past seasons seem to be in agreement that when and if HIIs
> will be replaced is well documented. Maybe not for us but it seems to
> be for players.

so, an entire tribe of players had full knowledge of the HII situation,
watched Ben search for them AND FIND THEM, and STILL that tribe of
players actively chose--as expressed on camera--to sit on the beach and
be lazy and use the excuse, "We're too tired" instead of having people
follow Ben around.

They did this knowing the HII situation? ON TOP of knowing, at some
point, that Ben finds an idol every time he looks?

Really?

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-05 10:00:33 +0000, The Horny Goat said:

> though after
> 35 seasons you would expect their contingency planning to be more
> rigorous than back in season 1 when they hadn't yet fully worked out
> their 'formula'.

on the other hand, after 35 seasons they know quite a bit--and are
ready and able to throw away the plan, should circumstances give them a
better opportunity to fulfill their goals.

That's what's nice about being a professional at something.

This is not unlike buying a car: the players are doing it for the
first time, while Survivor LLC does it ALL the time. Who has the upper
hand here?

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-05 10:19:43 +0000, The Horny Goat said:

> After 35 seasons you can reasonably assume they have made a
> priority on reinforcing what worked and avoiding what didn't to remove
> or anticipate unplanned events as much as possible. Since Murphy's Law
> still exists obviously they can't cover everything but are undoubtedly
> anticipating more than they did in season 1

My point exactly.

And every season, Survivor LLC gets better at it while the players are
still novices--relatively speaking, even Boston Rob.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-05 10:19:43 +0000, The Horny Goat said:

> BUT I'd be astonished if they're not
> anticipating more than they were back in seasons 4-5. They're not
> stupid so have clearly learned from their mistakes along the way and
> MB >HAS< acknowledged mistakes have been made but hasn't discussed
> what they were. Again they are known to have production bull sessions
> after each season where they privately discuss what worked well and
> what didn't.

This is "learning your profession 101".

I really fail to understand why this would be news to anyone here.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-05 13:26:14 +0000, Aloha Ray Walston said:

> That said, they can still make an
> idol easier to find than normal. It's a subtle way of manipulation and
> IMO acceptable.

Like I've said many times, they improvise and adapt and overcome based
on circumstances. Of course they manipulate the game.

And in this case, they did exactly what you said to help their
preferred winner move forward. That Chrissy et al. sat back and let it
happen, was hilarious to watch given her perception of her being so
much in control of everyone else and her fate.

She was in control of her fate, all right.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-05 19:51:59 +0000, Emanuel Berg said:

> The issue is, is the game *manipulated* during
> the active game period to favor certain players
> in ceratin predicaments? E.g., "OK, Ben is in
> trouble, the other guys too lazy, let's be
> quick about reintroducing the HII and not make
> it that hard for him to find".

In this case, it was probably a mix of "manipulate the game to make for
better TV which makes for better ratings which makes for increased
revenue" plus "on top of that, we really want Ben to win".

Chrissy and her tribemates handed that to Survivor LLC on a silver
platter when they said, "We're too tired to follow after Ben, he
doesn't worry us." I can only imagine the shocked looks back at
production, plus the high-fives after they realized she was handing Ben
the win that the producers wanted.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-06 04:24:12 +0000, Brian Smith said:

> I don't think it is the case except for very possibly this season.
> Here's why I think that. The HIIs at the end of the game were hidden in
> places that Ben frequented very often. I can't recall them ever doing
> that before. Despite that aid the others still would have got Ben out
> of the game if it wasn't for the F4 advantage/twist. Was that planned
> in advance? We'll never know unless someone from production spills some
> tea but coming up with that at the last second would have been very
> easy to do.

100%. Ben loses IC, Probst pulls what we saw from his right pocket.
Ben wins IC, Probst pulls something else from his left pocket.

Sure, that "something else" still fulfills the promise of being a
"twist", but it wasn't what we saw.

That's all conjecture, but I can easily believe it if facts start
coming out which support it.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-05 03:02:13 +0000, Questor said:

>> hell no. They're making profitable TV using ad-hoc, unscripted actors.
>> They interfere actively based on things that happen, human nature, etc.
>>
>> The millions of dollars that are at stake are not left to chance for
>> these unscripted people to mess with.
>
> There's Elmo again, singing the same old song -- an oldie but a goodie!
>
> Once more, you argue that the Survivor production staff determine the
> outcome of
> the game, based on... nothing more than your say-so.

If by "determine" you mean "they take what the unscripted actors gave
them and make the absolute best and most profitable TV out of it they
can on a show by show basis," then yes. They DETERMINE the best
outcome FOR SURVIVOR LLC.

Why would you think otherwise?

Even Brian bemoans, regularly, that what they showed on TV isn't what
everyone in his 24/7 Twitverse says actually happened.

Even you acknowledge that, when I smack Brian down yet again for
bitching that it's not a documentary.

> Your argument seems to be that because it's a
> profit-making enterprise, it directly follows that they engage in unscrupulous
> and illegal behavior

Did I ever say that they engage in unscrupulous and illegal behavior?
No. I'm simply describing the behavior, because I understand business
and human nature. YOU think that by doing what they do, they're being
"unscrupulous" and "behaving illegally".

Harvey Weinstein is laughing at you right now, you and your naivete.

[Emanuel Berg]

Brian Smith wrote:

> This might make you feel better. Word is that
> there are three models and an NFL
> cheerleader.

Almost all young females are attractive IMO.
After the Survivor diet and sunburn even more
so. For example Hannah in the "Millennials vs.
Gen. X". Day 1 certainly not anyone's typical
poster girl but at the end of the game
I thought her attractive in her own
wicked/screwed way.

Of course, the models/cheerleaders have a head
start...

[Brian Smith]

Why wouldn't they all know that a played HII would be put back into play? They just didn't think he would always find them. Not hard to believe at all.

--
Brian

[Brian Smith]

Two of the models are males including the 18 year old. Based on pics I've seen the best looking girl is Ash's "friend" and she's not a model or cheerleader. Of course how she looks in real life but not translate to how she looked playing Survivor.

--
Brian

[The Horny Goat]

That's all I'm saying - back in season 1 production was were still
learning and were not nearly as good at things as they are now.

They're not idiots so of course they've learned and applied the
lessons from what they learned along the way.

[The Horny Goat]

On Sat, 6 Jan 2018 11:39:25 -0500, Elmo P. Shagnasty
<el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>> Your argument seems to be that because it's a
>> profit-making enterprise, it directly follows that they engage in unscrupulous
>> and illegal behavior
>
>Did I ever say that they engage in unscrupulous and illegal behavior?
>No. I'm simply describing the behavior, because I understand business
>and human nature. YOU think that by doing what they do, they're being
>"unscrupulous" and "behaving illegally".
>
>Harvey Weinstein is laughing at you right now, you and your naivete.

Nothing to do with sexual impropriety but you definitely do seem to
have said things that go into Stacey Stillman territory.

[Emanuel Berg]

Brian Smith wrote:

> Two of the models are males

WTF?!

OK, then I take it back what I just said about
all young females being attractive. I want my
female models back!

:)

[Brian Smith]

From what I've seen the one female model might be the least attractive of all of the females. She's good looking but so are the others. The big question is how Survivor smart is she? I'm also looking forward to finding out who was recruited for S36. Word is that the cast has a number of superfans but you can never tell that based just on photos, ages and occupations.

--
Brian

[Emanuel Berg]

Brian Smith wrote:

> I'm also looking forward to
> finding out who was recruited for S36.
> Word is that the cast has a number of
> superfans but you can never tell that based
> just on photos, ages and occupations.

That's true you can't.

> From what I've seen the one female model
> might be the least attractive of all of the
> females. She's good looking but so are the
> others. The big question is how Survivor
> smart is she?

I don't really care how Survivor smart anyone
is. Some of the seasons I cared the least
about, e.g. "Game Changers" and
"Second Chance" (?) supposedly had the whole
score of Survivor super heroes and
super villains. Didn't help.

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-06 18:58:58 +0000, Emanuel Berg said:

> Of course, the models/cheerleaders have a head
> start...

Like this one?

http://survivor.wikia.com/wiki/Debbie_Wanner

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-06 20:33:13 +0000, Emanuel Berg said:

>> Two of the models are males
>
> WTF?!
>
> OK, then I take it back what I just said about
> all young females being attractive. I want my
> female models back!

You can have her:

http://survivor.wikia.com/wiki/Debbie_Wanner

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

On 2018-01-06 22:00:40 +0000, Brian Smith said:

> From what I've seen the one female model might be the least attractive
> of all of the females.

In the season, or overall?

'Cuz, she has huge competition in the "overall" category:

http://survivor.wikia.com/wiki/Debbie_Wanner

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

Hard to believe after a) he proved that he kept finding them, and b)
they made the choice never to follow him around because they were "too
tired".

[Elmo P. Shagnasty]

I don't know about that, but if you think Hollywood doesn't overall
behave that way, you are beyond naive.

[The Horny Goat]

On Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:20:01 +0100, Emanuel Berg <moa...@zoho.com>
wrote:

>I don't really care how Survivor smart anyone
>is. Some of the seasons I cared the least
>about, e.g. "Game Changers" and
>"Second Chance" (?) supposedly had the whole
>score of Survivor super heroes and
>super villains. Didn't help.

I'm really looking forward to seeing if James has learned anything
from being voted out with 2 HIIs in his pocket.

[Emanuel Berg]

The Horny Goat wrote:

> I'm really looking forward to seeing if James
> has learned anything from being voted out
> with 2 HIIs in his pocket.

In this season, I think it was "Dr. Mike" who
was a bit ashamed for wasting his idol who said
~"I'm not going to be the moron who goes home
with and idol in his pocket."

But you don't have to be a moron to do that.
Many people have done that without being
morons, in general or for that reason.

It is built into the game you have an alliance
to take out your opponents. It is equally
built-in that you will turn on your alliance,
or they will turn on you, eventually. But when
does that happen? It is very hard to tell, and
having an idol doesn't help you figuring it
out. If anything, it might make you more
relaxed and less observant of all the little
signs...

Very rarely have idols been the key to winning
the game. Ben, for sure. But who else did it?

Isn't it so that many, many more games have
been *ruined* because of the possession of an
idol?

I'd say the only really moronic thing you can
do with it, is revealing that you have it, or
give it away, as we saw Devon do (both)
this season. The very same episode she
was eliminated.

So my issue with idols isn't they are too
powerful (altho if you wrap them up as Ben
perhaps they are/will be), it is more like they
are disruptive and the whole game centers
around them.

What I love with Survivor is people walking on
a beach trying to figure out how to get out of
the hole they are in. By acting in a certain
way, talking in a certain way, telling the
right things to the right people at the right
time, or simply winning immunity when
everything else fails. It is this aspect that
is devalued and disappears when it is all about
digging up HIIs and looking for clues.

[slimji...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 5:34:47 AM UTC-5, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> On 2018-01-02 05:14:38 +0000, Brian Smith said:
>
> > If her version of events is accurate Ben's victory has to rank as one
> > of the most questionable ever.
>
> OMG, you mean if the sourpuss loser who got played is to be believed?
>
> The sourpuss loser who sat on the beach and said, "we're too tired to
> have five of us watch him all the time"??
>
> The sourpuss loser who tried, and transparently failed, to make
> "personal" connections with everyone for the purpose of saying so at
> FTC?
>
> I love me some big-titted MILF in a bikini, but that sourpuss bitch
> should have gone very early on. I don't care what else you may think
> about the season, her talk track is to be dismissed like a bum on the
> street yelling at the world.

Agree 100%. She played a great game but got SUPER COCKY (you can tell she's the type of person who "humble brags" & is spiteful (taking joy in keeping Ben from spending time with his wife) and thought her dumb idea of trying to trick him into thinking she had it would be enough NOT REALIZING he could ALREADY have the REAL idol. She was fun to watch because of her big titties, abs, perfect grill/teeth and her sexy horseface (I'm into that) plus she even got a bubble butt, but ultimately Chrissy's personality was much more harder to stomach