Fort Max looks like the SDF1 here
Michael Morbius
A deliberate reference on the part of the animators?
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron
>
>http://rockman.simplenet.com/pictures/Headmasters/hm8.jpg
>
>A deliberate reference on the part of the animators?
>
animation team. :)
Although the S.D.F.1 could still take it out Fort Max with one shot, though. :)
___________________________________________________________________
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as SuperDave - a.k.a.
Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who says "Ni".
Wolverine (After fight with Mystique): Whoa, It's me!
Cyclops: Prove it.
Wolverine: You're a dick.
Cyclops: ...Okay.
X-Men, the best movie of the past two years and best movie based on a comic
book. :)
Fact: Toad could kick Darth Maul's ass. :)
Deszaras
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron <unicr...@aol.communist> wrote in message
news:20000716223407...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
> Michael Morbius wrote:
> >
> >http://rockman.simplenet.com/pictures/Headmasters/hm8.jpg
> >
> >A deliberate reference on the part of the animators?
> >
> Heh. looks like someone was a Macross (or maybe even a Robotech) fan on
the
> animation team. :)
ehhhh......Robotech ::SHIVERS::
Considering if it was actually paying homage to the Super Dimension
Fortress(Which I just think its a coincidence anyhow) it was obviously taken
from Macross as Robotech never aired in Japan, which is where HM was
animated.
Eric
Robotech is just a bastardized convoluted mess
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>Robotech is HOW NOT to dub anime. Macek butchered three shows.
>I highly recommend picking up the DVD Macross boxset thats
being released in
>the winter.
>The songs are inferior to Macross, the voice acting is weak,
and the show is
>edited to insert the other two series. All three were also
edited for
>content as well.
>I'll admit I havent seen Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross
in its
>original form, but I have the VCD boxsets for both Macross and
Genesis
>Climber Mospeada. Far superior, better voice acting, better
songs, and
>better BGM.
I *was* going to get the Macross DVD at first, but I just found
out that ADV has gotten the rights to bring Robotech out on DVD,
so I'm gonna save my money for that. Plus, I like dubs MUCH
better then subs, and, having already seen Robotech (and some
subed Macross from the Perfect collection), I can say that I
don't enjoy it as much as Robotech.
I like how they put the three shows together. They had very
little connection, but Macek did a very good job of putting them
all together. In my opinion, anyway. :)
To tell you the truth, I really don't like the songs in any
Macross, Robotech, or Mospeada. In fact, the only reason I like
the Robotech songs better is because they are in english and I
can understand them. (Not that they are really any
better... :) )
And I definitely have to say that your opinion of them haven
better voice acting dosen't agree with my opinion, because I
like the voice acting in english much better. :)
(Yes, I have once been called a "rare breed" because I like dubs
better. Although we had a pole, and while the dub and sub
preferers were nearly equal, the majority said they didn't care
which... :) )
>Also if your comparing Robotech to the whole Macross series it
cant compete.
>You obviously havent seen Macross Do You Remember Love? or
Macross Plus.
>Also how is Macross 7 convoluted? What the hell is that
supposed to mean? It
>doesnt suffer from continuity inconsistencies or the such.
>Have you even seen Macross 7?
Well, I have seen the movie (it was cool. I saw the english
version, but still love it. :) ), Macross Plus (Awesome, plus a
nice dub. :) ) and enough of Macross 7 to make my opinion that
I like Robotech much better. :)
And 7? Convoluted may have been a bad word, but I have seen the
first four episodes, the last three, and a few in between, plus
I have read summaries of the story and concepts, and I do think
that, besides the mecha desighns, it does kinda stink. Bad
singing, I hate almost all the characters, especially Fire
Bomber (although only Max and Gamlin came out as "okay"
characters), singinmg save the universe? song energy? Zentraedi
stealing souls? No thanks, I'd rather take some of the crap at
the end of the "End of the Circle" Robotech book then that.
Plus, it's biggest flaw is that it wasn't in english. :)
Oh well, there are people that do like it, and I'm one that
dosen't. (heh, on another note, I LOVE Beast machines, and it
seems that a lot of people don't... :) )
>Also saying its better than Gundam. Go pick up Gundam 0080,
0083, and the
>original trilogy. FAAAAR superior to Robotech.
>Robotech is unworthy of the Macross Saga.
>
I've seen them, and while I like Wing and 0083, I don't like any
of the bad guys in any of the Gundam series, one of the major
flaws against them in my opinion (plus tha fact that I never
really cared for anyone in the original trilogy or 0080), plus I
like the desighns of the mecha in the various Macross and
Robotech series MUCH better then the ones in Gundam. Although
0083 had a good dub, and I liked Kou. Kou's commander (the one
who broke his leg) was voiced by the same guy who did Admiral
Winfield in Exo-Squad. Cool. :)
I LOVED Exo-Squad. :)
And c'mon, lighten up a little. :)
It isn't the end of the world that I like dubs better then subs
or that I like Robotech better then the Macross series or the
Gundam series, or that I don't like almost all music from the
90's onward (except for "Weird Al" Yankovic, of course. :) ),
ot that my favorite part of pizza is the crust, or that I like
Beast Machines better then G1, or that this list is too long and
stupid. :)
_________________________________________________________________
__
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who
says "Ni".
Wolverine (After fight with Mystique): Whoa, It's me!
Cyclops: Prove it.
Wolverine: You're a dick.
Cyclops: ...Okay.
X-Men, the best movie of the past two years and best movie based
on a comic book. :)
Fact: Toad could kick Darth Maul's ass. :)
>
-----------------------------------------------------------
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SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron
>
>SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron <unicr...@aol.communist> wrote in message
>news:20000716223407...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
>> Michael Morbius wrote:
>> >
>> >http://rockman.simplenet.com/pictures/Headmasters/hm8.jpg
>> >
>> >A deliberate reference on the part of the animators?
>> >
>> Heh. looks like someone was a Macross (or maybe even a Robotech) fan on
>the
>> animation team. :)
>
>ehhhh......Robotech ::SHIVERS::
>Considering if it was actually paying homage to the Super Dimension
>Fortress(Which I just think its a coincidence anyhow) it was obviously taken
>from Macross as Robotech never aired in Japan, which is where HM was
>animated.
>
alsosince Robotech aired here before Headmasters was animated (I think), it is
technically also a nod to Robotech. :)
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! :)
>Eric
>Robotech is just a bastardized convoluted mess
I find Robotech to be much better then the Macross series (which makes it MUCH
better then any Gundam. BWAHAHAHAHA!! :) ), as a whole. Plus, I know
basically everything that goes on and how they tie together (Sentinels, etc.),
so I have a better understanding then someone who just watches the series. and
I love it. :)
Plus, it dosen't have Macross 7. Not THAT is a convoluted mess. :)
___________________________________________________________________
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as SuperDave - a.k.a.
Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who says "Ni".
Wolverine (After fight with Mystique): Whoa, It's me!
Cyclops: Prove it.
Wolverine: You're a dick.
Cyclops: ...Okay.
Fact: Storm is one of the hardest characters to face in one of the final
battles of Marvel vs. Capcom 2. :)
Deszaras
I highly recommend picking up the DVD Macross boxset thats being released in
the winter.
The songs are inferior to Macross, the voice acting is weak, and the show is
edited to insert the other two series. All three were also edited for
content as well.
I'll admit I havent seen Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross in its
original form, but I have the VCD boxsets for both Macross and Genesis
Climber Mospeada. Far superior, better voice acting, better songs, and
better BGM.
You obviously havent seen Macross Do You Remember Love? or Macross Plus.
Also how is Macross 7 convoluted? What the hell is that supposed to mean? It
doesnt suffer from continuity inconsistencies or the such.
Have you even seen Macross 7?
original trilogy. FAAAAR superior to Robotech.
Robotech is unworthy of the Macross Saga.
> I find Robotech to be much better then the Macross series (which makes it
Deszaras
of(Mononoke Hime, and Kiki's Delivery Service). I just much prefer subtitles
as thats the way the film was originally intended to be viewed(Much like I
only watch widescreen videos, that is of course the movie never was
widescreen).
Merging the three series together was completely unnecessary. I understand
that Macek needed to meet the episode minimum but he could have easily just
put the series under one banner and show them in their original form(well
edited for american television).
I just find Robotech reprehensible and horrendous. Sitting through the show
is like being beaten over the head with my own arm. The constant narration
is so unnecessary.
Before anyone says it, i'll admit im a Macross snob.
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:2cfdd98d...@usw-ex0106-046.remarq.com...
Michael Morbius
> Robotech is HOW NOT to dub anime.
I've heard that. I accept everyone's word for it. That doesn't stop it
from having sentimental value.
> Also if your comparing Robotech to the whole Macross series it cant compete.
> You obviously havent seen Macross Do You Remember Love? or Macross Plus.
I've seen both. *Do You Remember Love?* looked good but I found the "old
woman Minmei," the large amounts of blood, and the battle-of-the-sexes
within the Zentraedi to be very depressing. *Macross Plus*--which I just
gave another chance the last time I was at Spencer's--can be exciting and
emotionally moving but ultimately it is also depressing. It also
exemplifies what's wrong with the way anime looks today.
> Have you even seen Macross 7?
I haven't. I have seen *Macross II* though. It looked interesting but
since it was in Japanese with no subtitles and I didn't speak *any*
Japanese when I saw it I have to say in all fairness that it didn't have
the best possible chance to impress me. I later bought the first few
issues of the manga (with English word balloons) and it *still* didn't
make any sense to me.
> Also saying its better than Gundam. Go pick up Gundam 0080, 0083, and the
> original trilogy. FAAAAR superior to Robotech.
In the last five to eight years I've had to reluctantly face the fact that
I may simply not like anime very much. It was one thing in the early
Eighties when I was growing up and you couldn't get anime at the video
store and the closest you got was when *Battle of the Planets* came on TV.
I actually acquired my taste for Japanese animation from American shows
that were sent to Japan to be animated (not that *BOTP* was; I mean things
like *GI Joe*). But in the last eight years I've tried
super-hyper-ultra-hard to like all the anime that's become available and I
can't seem to. It looks wrong, the stories are depressing, the whole feel
of it is alien and leaves me nonplussed, and there are so many similar
premises. With the huge number of titles now availabe I thought there
would be more variety so that there'd be something for everyone.
The closest I've come are:
*Dominion Tank Police*
*Judge*
*Fist of the Northstar*
My friend Patrick has a huge anime collection. Back when I had a
full-time job and a car I'd sometimes get some nice food and go to his
house and watch anime with him while he copied it or debuted new tapes
he'd bought. Through that process I saw *Evangelion*, *Golden Boy*,
*Maison Ikkoku*, *Tenchi Muyo*, *Urusei Yatsura*, and way more *Ranma*
than I wanted to see, to name just the things I can think of off the top
of my head. None of it seemed good to me.
But I *want* to like anime damn it! Blar.
Mike
Michael Morbius
> It isn't the end of the world that I like dubs better then subs
> or that I like Robotech better then the Macross series or the
> Gundam series, or that I don't like almost all music from the
> 90's onward (except for "Weird Al" Yankovic, of course. :) ),
> ot that my favorite part of pizza is the crust, or that I like
> Beast Machines better then G1, or that this list is too long and
> stupid. :)
I feel the same way about everything except *Beast Machines*.
Do you scream in rage at the crustless pizza commercials too?
Mike
Michael Morbius
> I just find Robotech reprehensible and horrendous. Sitting through the show
> is like being beaten over the head with my own arm. The constant narration
> is so unnecessary.
In all fairness, I should add that although *Robotech* still has the edge
over its original anime counterparts for sentimental value, it *is* hard
to watch now that I'm older. When I first saw it in a hotel room on
vacation in the summer of 1985, it blew my mind. I made sure I was back
at the hotel every day at 3:30 sharp to watch it. The background music
rocked. The use of actual deaths was shocking and effective (from Ben and
Roy to 90% of the population of Earth). When it started airing back in
home city the next year I immediately started taping it. Now I can't
really sit through it. It's pretty choppy and wooden. For a while after
acquiring a complete set of episodes Spencer walked around saying
"Do-you-hear-what-I-am-saying-to-you?" And this is supposed to be English
dub, with actors whose first language is English? And the artwork isn't
even as good as I remember it, which is too bad, because at least if the
artwork had been as good as I remembered it, I could have collected the
episodes just to look at.
The music still rocks, anyway. I defy you to not walk around for the next
two days going "dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUdunt-DUdunt
dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUdunt-DUdunt; dunt dunt dunt dunt dadaaa,
daaaaa, da da da da!" after watching one of the many mecha battles with
looped battle music.
Mike
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>Never said there were anything wrong with dubs. As there are
some im fond
>of(Mononoke Hime, and Kiki's Delivery Service). I just much
prefer subtitles
>as thats the way the film was originally intended to be viewed
(Much like I
>only watch widescreen videos, that is of course the movie never
was
>widescreen).
I love widescreen movies, but I still prefer to watch anime in
english, the way it was meant for ME to view it. :)
And I just can't wait for Princess Mononoke to come out on video
and DVD. That movie was awesome (Heh. There were three other
people in the theater when I saw it. Granted, it was an early
showing on a Monday in the peak of the Christmas shopping time,
and the only theater within an hour drive that had it only had
about three people working there. But the movie was
cool. :) )
>Merging the three series together was completely unnecessary. I
understand
>that Macek needed to meet the episode minimum but he could have
easily just
>put the series under one banner and show them in their original
form(well
>edited for american television).
>I just find Robotech reprehensible and horrendous. Sitting
through the show
>is like being beaten over the head with my own arm. The
constant narration
>is so unnecessary.
Isn't the narrator the same one who does Gundam Wing? And isn't
he our good friend Rampage? :)
Personally, I like Robotech the way it is, although I do wish
the Sentinels had been finished on TV. It fixes up and ties the
series together better. And I like the morte "Americanized"
names MUCH better then any of the Japanese names. :)
I guess I probably would have liked the three series better
separated, but there would have to be a few conditions. They
would have had to been dubbed in english and I would have to not
seen Robotech first and read all the comic tie ins and such.
But, oh well, I still like Robotech over just about any anime. :)
>Before anyone says it, i'll admit im a Macross snob.
Don't worry, I'm a Robotech and Star Trek snob. :)
If you read enough of my posts you might see some of my pot
shots against Gundam and Star Wars (although I do try to keep
them in good humor. :) ) (and it's not like I don't like them, I
just love Robotech and Star Trek better. :) )
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid>
wrote:
>
subs
>> or that I like Robotech better then the Macross series or the
>> Gundam series, or that I don't like almost all music from the
>> 90's onward (except for "Weird Al" Yankovic, of course. :) ),
>> ot that my favorite part of pizza is the crust, or that I like
>> Beast Machines better then G1, or that this list is too long
and
>> stupid. :)
>
Damn, it seems I am another "rare breed"...and open Beast
Machines supporter. (I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot
more, but they aren't as vocal about it.) :)
>
>Do you scream in rage at the crustless pizza commercials too?
>
Only when I am hungry, and see that mockery on the TV screen in
front of me. :)
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>Deszaras <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> I just find Robotech reprehensible and horrendous. Sitting
through the show
>> is like being beaten over the head with my own arm. The
constant narration
>> is so unnecessary.
>
feel when I watch an episode from the first two seasons of G1.
It is kinda hard to sit through two episodes in a row.
Although I kinda agree about how dated Robotech is, I find that,
when I am in the right mood, I can watch a whole string of
episodes without getting bored and just enjoy them. :)
And I'd still rather have that dub then have to hear Japanese
and read the damn subtitles and not have the cool Americanized
names. :)
>The music still rocks, anyway. I defy you to not walk around
for the next
>two days going "dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUdunt-DUdunt
>dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUdunt-DUdunt; dunt dunt dunt dunt
dadaaa,
>daaaaa, da da da da!" after watching one of the many mecha
battles with
>looped battle music.
>
Oh yes. The music in Robotech is very catchy and fits pretty
well. (Although I still am not that fond of ANY of the singing,
Japanese (especially), or English). One of the reasons I like
instrumentals better then theme songs at the start of a show.
More catchy, they do not have the cheesy Japanese singing, and
they don't have the cheesy english songs. Except for "the
Tick". dup dwee dup dup dup dwee dow... :)
Deszaras
Hmm.....cool Americanized names. Some of the Robotech name changes were
pretty unnecessary
Rick Hunter instead of Hikaru Ichijyo?
Veritech instead of Valkyrie and Legioss?
Khyron instead of Quamzin?
And why did they need to rename the island where the ship crashes Macross
Island instead of Ataria Island(Which is a real island in the South
Pacific).
Plus Robotech incredibly alters what Protoculture really is!
> >
> I know people are going to hate me for this, but that is how I
> feel when I watch an episode from the first two seasons of G1.
> It is kinda hard to sit through two episodes in a row.
> Although I kinda agree about how dated Robotech is, I find that,
> when I am in the right mood, I can watch a whole string of
> episodes without getting bored and just enjoy them. :)
> And I'd still rather have that dub then have to hear Japanese
> and read the damn subtitles and not have the cool Americanized
> names. :)
>
> >The music still rocks, anyway. I defy you to not walk around
> for the next
> >two days going "dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUdunt-DUdunt
> >dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUNT-dunt-DUdunt-DUdunt; dunt dunt dunt dunt
> dadaaa,
> >daaaaa, da da da da!" after watching one of the many mecha
> battles with
> >looped battle music.
> >
> Oh yes. The music in Robotech is very catchy and fits pretty
> well. (Although I still am not that fond of ANY of the singing,
> Japanese (especially), or English). One of the reasons I like
> instrumentals better then theme songs at the start of a show.
> More catchy, they do not have the cheesy Japanese singing, and
> they don't have the cheesy english songs. Except for "the
> Tick". dup dwee dup dup dup dwee dow... :)
Deszaras
that over Star Wars anyday.
Gotta love the original series! Gimme Kirk, Bones,and Spock any day.
> Don't worry, I'm a Robotech and Star Trek snob. :)
> If you read enough of my posts you might see some of my pot
> shots against Gundam and Star Wars (although I do try to keep
> them in good humor. :) ) (and it's not like I don't like them, I
> just love Robotech and Star Trek better. :) )
Michael Morbius
> I know people are going to hate me for this, but that is how I
> feel when I watch an episode from the first two seasons of G1.
That hurts but...I can comprehend that. There are some episodes I won't
be able to sit through for quite a while--particularly from the first
season available on FHE which I watched the hell out of and need to let
lie fallow for a while. And then there are other episodes I hadn't seen
in fourteen years and only just got on tape finally from Spencer and I now
that I've seen them one more time that's enough: "Traitor"; "Atlantis
Arise."
One of the key skills to acquire as a die-hard G1 fan is to recognize that
they can't all be gems. Just because *The Transformers* is the single
greatest televised program in the history of the medium and my automatic
first choice for what series I'd want if I were going to be alone on a
comfortable but uncharted island doesn't mean I'd watch them all.
> they don't have the cheesy english songs. Except for "the
> Tick". dup dwee dup dup dup dwee dow... :)
I can think of at least one English cartoon theme with vocals I don't mind
hearing. Maybe you've heard of it. It goes like this:
The Transformers
More than meets the eye
Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons.
The Transformers
More than meets the eye
The Transformers
Robots in disguise
The Transformers.
Does anyone know which series I'm talking about? </obnoxious>
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>God forbid we watch the film like its originally intended to be
seen!
I do love widescreens (mostly because I don't want to miss the
things going on in the sides), but I would rather understand
what everyone is saying then hearing it in Japanese (I grew up
on Godzilla dubs. :) ). True, I don't mind subtitles for things
like alien languages (like Klingon), but I prefer the prevailing
language (which would be Japanese in anime) to be in english. I
can understand why some people don't want to see it touched, but
I would much rather see it as if it was originally intended for
here. Anime isn't as bad as live action because they can do it
so you may not ever realize that it was originally in another
language. I do prefer uncut, but if I have to take edits to see
it in english, I'll take it. :)
Just my preferences, though. :)
>Hmm.....cool Americanized names. Some of the Robotech name
changes were
>pretty unnecessary
>Rick Hunter instead of Hikaru Ichijyo?
I like this one. It is easier to spell and pronounce and it is
more "American". In the show there dosen't seem to be anything
that says that they have to be Japanese characters, so making
them more "American" for American audiences isn't really that
bad. :)
Plus, there is the fact the, for all intents and purposes,
Robotech is NOT Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada, but more
of an alternate continuity where all of them happened at
different times with different events that linked them together.
(Heh, kinda like some of the concepts in Sliders. :) )
>Veritech instead of Valkyrie and Legioss?
I definitely prefer Veritech over Valkyrie, but mainly because
they don't look like the "real life" Valkyrie plane (although
later ones start to), it looks much more like the F-14 Tomcat,
and so I'd rather have a new name then an inaccurate one, plus
it is better for multiple styles, like the Alpha and Beta
Veritechs (the Delta looked cool as well. :) ).
>Khyron instead of Quamzin?
I liked the mythological reference, but it fits much better when
you understand the "cyclical" nature of Robotech. (The Flower
of Life was originally from earth then brought to Opteria where
Zor stole it to make protoculture with the Masters then stole it
and fled with the SDF1 the Masters sent the Zentraedi after him
Breetai found him the Invid attacked Zor died Breetai lost his
eye and dying Zor sent the SDF1 to earth and the rest is
history. :) )
Although I do amit that he *could* have stayed Quamzin. :)
>And why did they need to rename the island where the ship
crashes Macross
>Island instead of Ataria Island(Which is a real island in the
South
>Pacific).
I guess that was the only way to have such a strange name for a
city. :)
I like it either way. :)
>Plus Robotech incredibly alters what Protoculture really is!
>
Yes, but it really helps to tie the three together, so it isn't
bad for Robotech. :)
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>> I know people are going to hate me for this, but that is how I
>> feel when I watch an episode from the first two seasons of G1.
>
>That hurts but...I can comprehend that. There are some
episodes I won't
>be able to sit through for quite a while--particularly from the
first
>season available on FHE which I watched the hell out of and
need to let
>lie fallow for a while. And then there are other episodes I
hadn't seen
>in fourteen years and only just got on tape finally from
Spencer and I now
>that I've seen them one more time that's
enough: "Traitor"; "Atlantis
>Arise."
>
episodes more than once over a short period of time. I usually
have to wait a while before I decide to watch an episode or tape
again. The few exceptions are Exo-Squad (which I like as much
if not better then Robotech), Martian Succesor Nadesico (I have
seen the first tape at least 15 times since, what,
November? :) ), Robotech (mostly Macross and New Generation, but
that's because my Southern Cross collection isn't as
developed :) ), Tenchi Muyo, and El-Hazard (two of my first and
favorite anime series. :) ).
It sounds familiar....is it the theme from "The Critic"? :)
Heh, I love that theme as well, but it could also be because I
have always been a Transformer..er...Critic, yeah, Critic fan
and it is just ingrained in me now. :)
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
> "Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >God forbid we watch the film like its originally intended to be
> seen!
>
> I do love widescreens (mostly because I don't want to miss the
> things going on in the sides), but I would rather understand
> what everyone is saying then hearing it in Japanese (I grew up
> on Godzilla dubs. :) ). True, I don't mind subtitles for things
> like alien languages (like Klingon), but I prefer the prevailing
> language (which would be Japanese in anime) to be in english. I
> can understand why some people don't want to see it touched, but
> I would much rather see it as if it was originally intended for
> here. Anime isn't as bad as live action because they can do it
> so you may not ever realize that it was originally in another
> language. I do prefer uncut, but if I have to take edits to see
> it in english, I'll take it. :)
> Just my preferences, though. :)
Im a big Kaiju fan:) My problem is that most everything released dubbed has
some content edited somehow. They hacked quite a bit out of the original
Gojira to put in Raymond Burr(Same thing with the 1984 sequel). I have the
entire Heisi Series subtitled widescreen which is much cooler. Its also neat
because when someone appears from a different country they speak their
native langauge(Japanese speak Japanese, Americans speak English, The
Soviets spoke Russian, etc).
Generally just because a film is shown in an english speaking nation doesnt
mean thats what it is intended to be shown in!
The closest possible way without damaging anything intended by the original
filmmaker is to have it subtitled! There are only two ways i'll watch a dub.
1) Its the ONLY option.
2) The dub was personally supervised and approved by the original Producers,
and Director!
>
> >Hmm.....cool Americanized names. Some of the Robotech name
> changes were
> >pretty unnecessary
> >Rick Hunter instead of Hikaru Ichijyo?
>
> I like this one. It is easier to spell and pronounce and it is
> more "American". In the show there dosen't seem to be anything
> that says that they have to be Japanese characters, so making
> them more "American" for American audiences isn't really that
> bad. :)
Kinda funny considering Rick Hunter isnt American.
> Plus, there is the fact the, for all intents and purposes,
> Robotech is NOT Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada, but more
> of an alternate continuity where all of them happened at
> different times with different events that linked them together.
> (Heh, kinda like some of the concepts in Sliders. :) )
Thats what makes them so incongruent. Makes you wonder why the Armies of The
Southern Cross didnt whip out some of the old school VF series fighters and
stomp some Robotech Master ass!
Hovertanks....BAH!
>
> >Veritech instead of Valkyrie and Legioss?
>
> I definitely prefer Veritech over Valkyrie, but mainly because
> they don't look like the "real life" Valkyrie plane (although
> later ones start to), it looks much more like the F-14 Tomcat,
> and so I'd rather have a new name then an inaccurate one, plus
> it is better for multiple styles, like the Alpha and Beta
> Veritechs (the Delta looked cool as well. :) ).
Well considering Shoji Kawamori based the fighter design of the VF-1 series
on the F-14 your observation is correct.
Why is Valkyrie an inaccurate name? Its a name for a fictional fighter on
the show! How could a name for that be inaccurate?
They could have kept them under their correct names such as Valkyrie,
Legioss, and The Tread, while just tacking on them the overall tag of
"Variable Fighters".
>
> >Khyron instead of Quamzin?
>
> I liked the mythological reference, but it fits much better when
> you understand the "cyclical" nature of Robotech. (The Flower
> of Life was originally from earth then brought to Opteria where
> Zor stole it to make protoculture with the Masters then stole it
> and fled with the SDF1 the Masters sent the Zentraedi after him
> Breetai found him the Invid attacked Zor died Breetai lost his
> eye and dying Zor sent the SDF1 to earth and the rest is
> history. :) )
> Although I do amit that he *could* have stayed Quamzin. :)
Wasnt that from one of the McKinney novels? Those arent canon!
>
> >And why did they need to rename the island where the ship
> crashes Macross
> >Island instead of Ataria Island(Which is a real island in the
> South
> >Pacific).
>
> I guess that was the only way to have such a strange name for a
> city. :)
> I like it either way. :)
Strange name for a city? The city was named after the ship which they
discovered was called "The Macross".
>
> >Plus Robotech incredibly alters what Protoculture really is!
> >
> Yes, but it really helps to tie the three together, so it isn't
> bad for Robotech. :)
>
>
Ties them together relatively inconsistently though!
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
__
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who
says "Ni".
Wolverine (After fight with Mystique): Whoa, It's me!
Cyclops: Prove it.
Wolverine: You're a dick.
Cyclops: ...Okay.
X-Men, the best movie of the past two years and best movie based
on a comic book. :)
Fact: Toad could kick Darth Maul's ass. :)
Deszaras
message itself!
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:0642c2f8...@usw-ex0103-024.remarq.com...
> _________________________________________________________________
> __
> Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as
> SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who
> says "Ni".
>
> Wolverine (After fight with Mystique): Whoa, It's me!
> Cyclops: Prove it.
> Wolverine: You're a dick.
> Cyclops: ...Okay.
>
> X-Men, the best movie of the past two years and best movie based
> on a comic book. :)
> Fact: Toad could kick Darth Maul's ass. :)
>
>
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>Umm....you seem to have forgotten a large part of your post.
Mainly the
>message itself!
>
Shit! It took me a half hour to write and word everything
correctly. Damn, these are the times that I wish AOL was
working correctly. Oh well, let's see if I can remember what I
said....
I understand what you are saying, but technically dubs of such
things as Pokemon and Godzilla *are* how they were intended to
be shown in...by the people who brought them over and marked
them and stuff. Take Pokemon for example, that is probably
never going to come out subbed commercially. (Yes, I have just
been playing around with this part of our conversation. :) )
But I do hope the Godzilla 2000 movie has a cheesy dub to it, so
it will fit in with all the other Godzilla movies that I so very
love. Hell, even our Godzilla movie from 97 (Hey, I liked that
movie!) was cheesy enough to fit in with the Godzilla style I am
used to. :)
>The closest possible way without damaging anything intended by
the original
>filmmaker is to have it subtitled! There are only two ways i'll
watch a dub.
>1) Its the ONLY option.
>2) The dub was personally supervised and approved by the
original Producers,
>and Director!
>
I have a few whays that I will watch subs.:
1) They are the only thing avaliable at the time (like when I
got Tylor and Escaflowne. Since both have gotten the dub
treatment since then, I am seriously considering selling my sub
collection and get the dubs. Although I probably will just get
the Escaflowne DVD. Some would say it is the best of both
worlds. :) ).
2) I am with a group and subs are the only version avaliable.
(Although I really can't watch Nadesico subbed anymore. I could
at first, but the dub has since been so ingraned in me that any
othey way is torture. Kinda like Tenchi Muyo and El-Hazard as
well. :) )
Truthfully, while there are usually an equal number of sub
lovers and dub lovers, the vast majortiy don't care which way. :)
>>
>> >Hmm.....cool Americanized names. Some of the Robotech name
>> changes were
>> >pretty unnecessary
>> >Rick Hunter instead of Hikaru Ichijyo?
>>
>> I like this one. It is easier to spell and pronounce and it
is
>> more "American". In the show there dosen't seem to be
anything
>> that says that they have to be Japanese characters, so making
>> them more "American" for American audiences isn't really that
>> bad. :)
>
>Kinda funny considering Rick Hunter isnt American.
>
Well, I don't have a perfect collection of the series yet (the
tapes are kinda rare, but I can't wait for the DVDs. :) ), but
from what I have seen, there has been nothing to actually say
where he is from. Still, since Robotech was a story for an
American audience, it does make sense for them to "Americanize"
the main character. (I don't think he is Japanese at all in
Robotech. :) )
>> Plus, there is the fact the, for all intents and purposes,
>> Robotech is NOT Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada, but more
>> of an alternate continuity where all of them happened at
>> different times with different events that linked them
together.
>> (Heh, kinda like some of the concepts in Sliders. :) )
>
>Thats what makes them so incongruent. Makes you wonder why the
Armies of The
>Southern Cross didnt whip out some of the old school VF series
fighters and
>stomp some Robotech Master ass!
>Hovertanks....BAH!
>
This was covered in the first three episodes of the Sentinels
(the only ones that were animated). The REF took all the
working mecha, including the Veritechs, Alphas, Betas, some
Hovertanks, etc., leaving the earth with the Hovertanks and
other Masters mecha to defend if the Masters were to attack
while the REF was away. (Leonard was pissed off at this). By
the time the New Generation came around, the stockpile of
Alphas, Betas, and Cyclones had been built up enough to be used
as the primary mecha. The story revolved around groups that
used each "era's" mecha exclusively, but that dosen't mean that
there wasn't older mecha being used, it just wasn't in the
spotlight. :)
>>
>> >Veritech instead of Valkyrie and Legioss?
>>
>> I definitely prefer Veritech over Valkyrie, but mainly because
>> they don't look like the "real life" Valkyrie plane (although
>> later ones start to), it looks much more like the F-14 Tomcat,
>> and so I'd rather have a new name then an inaccurate one, plus
>> it is better for multiple styles, like the Alpha and Beta
>> Veritechs (the Delta looked cool as well. :) ).
>
>Well considering Shoji Kawamori based the fighter design of the
VF-1 series
>on the F-14 your observation is correct.
>Why is Valkyrie an inaccurate name? Its a name for a fictional
fighter on
>the show! How could a name for that be inaccurate?
>They could have kept them under their correct names such as
Valkyrie,
>Legioss, and The Tread, while just tacking on them the overall
tag of
>"Variable Fighters".
Well Gloval *did* call the Veritechs "Valkyries" *once* (an
error, I believe :) ), so.... :)
The Valkyrie was a real world fighter, of which two were made
(one crashed, so the other is on display), and, while later
Macross Valkyries did look more like it (the Thunderbolt in
particular, I believe), the VF-1 looks much more like a Tomcat,
so, if I can't call it "Tomcat", then I'd still prefer a
fictional name over an innaccurate name. :)
I have no problem with whatever they call the more futuristic
fighters, but if it is basically a transforming Tomcat,
then... :)
By the way, do you know or recall the name that the "Destroid
Monster" was given in Macross VFX2 for the PS? That thong was
cool, especially when they made it transform. Damn, I wish VFX2
had made it here. :)
>>
>> >Khyron instead of Quamzin?
>>
>> I liked the mythological reference, but it fits much better
when
>> you understand the "cyclical" nature of Robotech. (The Flower
>> of Life was originally from earth then brought to Opteria
where
>> Zor stole it to make protoculture with the Masters then stole
it
>> and fled with the SDF1 the Masters sent the Zentraedi after
him
>> Breetai found him the Invid attacked Zor died Breetai lost his
>> eye and dying Zor sent the SDF1 to earth and the rest is
>> history. :) )
>> Although I do amit that he *could* have stayed Quamzin. :)
>
>Wasnt that from one of the McKinney novels? Those arent canon!
>
For "animation is the only true cannon" (like the TV shows and
movies are in Star Trek and the movies are in Star Wars), I
don't know, but for the "true Robotech story", then the
Sentinels is definitely cannon. Maceck had Sentinels all
planned out (and even some of "The Odysey"), and McKinney and
the Waltrips each adapted it (books and comic books,
respectively), so, while there are a few inconsistencies between
the two, the basic premise, the stuff that HAS to happen in each
of them, are the same. If the Sentinels had continued to be
animated, it would have run the same track, so the Sentinles
*is* cannon to Robotech.
>>
>> >And why did they need to rename the island where the ship
>> crashes Macross
>> >Island instead of Ataria Island(Which is a real island in the
>> South
>> >Pacific).
>>
>> I guess that was the only way to have such a strange name for
a
>> city. :)
>> I like it either way. :)
>
>Strange name for a city? The city was named after the ship
which they
>discovered was called "The Macross".
>
Well, the ship that fell in Robotech was not called the Macross,
but eventually came to be known as the S.D.F.1. They probably
figured that the easiest way to have a strange name like Macross
in the Robotech continuity (probably part of the agreement), was
just to name the island "Macross", and therefore the city on it
would be called "Macross City". :)
>>
>> >Plus Robotech incredibly alters what Protoculture really is!
>> >
>> Yes, but it really helps to tie the three together, so it
isn't
>> bad for Robotech. :)
>>
>>
>
>Ties them together relatively inconsistently though!
>
Well (draws big breath)... Zor stole the Flower of Life from the
Invid and made the Protocultue matrix with the Masters then
stole the matrix and hid it in the SDF1's drive then sent the
SDF1 to earth where the Zentraedi came to get it back but
wouldn't destroy it because they had to retrieve the matrix then
the Masters arrive with their last remaining protoculture to get
the matrix from the SDF1's grave but it turns into the Flower of
Life which attracts the Invid who eventually "purges" the earth
of protoculture.
And that stuff is in the animated show. :)
_________________________________________________________________
__
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who
says "Ni".
Wolverine (After fight with Mystique): Whoa, It's me!
Cyclops: Prove it.
Wolverine: You're a dick.
Cyclops: ...Okay.
X-Men, the best movie of the past two years and best movie based
on a comic book. :)
Fact: Toad could kick Darth Maul's ass. :)
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:182b1601...@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com...
But considering that the people who bring the films over here are generally
not the original filmmakers they have no right to say how it is intended to
be seen.
Certain dubs make sense, such as Pokemon! For that its intended solely for
younger audiences who probably do not know how to read or dont have the
patience to read the subtitles anyway.
Robotech on the otherhand is butchered art.
Hmm.....thought it stated in the series he was from Japan....
>
> >> Plus, there is the fact the, for all intents and purposes,
> >> Robotech is NOT Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada, but more
> >> of an alternate continuity where all of them happened at
> >> different times with different events that linked them
> together.
> >> (Heh, kinda like some of the concepts in Sliders. :) )
> >
> >Thats what makes them so incongruent. Makes you wonder why the
> Armies of The
> >Southern Cross didnt whip out some of the old school VF series
> fighters and
> >stomp some Robotech Master ass!
> >Hovertanks....BAH!
> >
> This was covered in the first three episodes of the Sentinels
> (the only ones that were animated). The REF took all the
> working mecha, including the Veritechs, Alphas, Betas, some
> Hovertanks, etc., leaving the earth with the Hovertanks and
> other Masters mecha to defend if the Masters were to attack
> while the REF was away. (Leonard was pissed off at this). By
> the time the New Generation came around, the stockpile of
> Alphas, Betas, and Cyclones had been built up enough to be used
> as the primary mecha. The story revolved around groups that
> used each "era's" mecha exclusively, but that dosen't mean that
> there wasn't older mecha being used, it just wasn't in the
> spotlight. :)
Umm.....I have Sentinels on tape and it never says "they took all our old
VF-1 series Veritechs".
Well it isnt a transforming F-14 Tomcat. it just bears a similar resemblance
to the F-14. Valkyrie is a perfectly appropriate name for a fictional
fighter. I dont see how you consider it inaccurate. Names in the military
for vessels, and fighters, are frequently re-used. Just look at how many
Enterprises there have been.(Im refering to the Naval Vessels, and Space
Shuttle, not the Starship)
>
> By the way, do you know or recall the name that the "Destroid
> Monster" was given in Macross VFX2 for the PS? That thong was
> cool, especially when they made it transform. Damn, I wish VFX2
> had made it here. :)
The Monster wore a thong???
> >>
> >> >Khyron instead of Quamzin?
> >>
> >> I liked the mythological reference, but it fits much better
> when
> >> you understand the "cyclical" nature of Robotech. (The Flower
> >> of Life was originally from earth then brought to Opteria
> where
> >> Zor stole it to make protoculture with the Masters then stole
> it
> >> and fled with the SDF1 the Masters sent the Zentraedi after
> him
> >> Breetai found him the Invid attacked Zor died Breetai lost his
> >> eye and dying Zor sent the SDF1 to earth and the rest is
> >> history. :) )
> >> Although I do amit that he *could* have stayed Quamzin. :)
> >
> >Wasnt that from one of the McKinney novels? Those arent canon!
> >
> For "animation is the only true cannon" (like the TV shows and
> movies are in Star Trek and the movies are in Star Wars), I
> don't know, but for the "true Robotech story", then the
> Sentinels is definitely cannon. .
Sorry that doesnt cut it. What was made of The Sentinels was cannon, but
just other plot points were conceived does not make THAT cannon. Unless it
was in a final animated format it is not cannon.
On a final note Harmony Gold are a bunch of whiners. They're now trying to
screw one over on Toycom and saying that they own the rights to EVERYTHING
Macross(which includes DYRL, Plus, 7, etc). In a sad attempt to make some
quick cash off of the new Macross Plus Valkyries.
Can we say jealousy?
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron
>Glad it came through! Time for my reply:)
Yeah, it's kinda fun arguing with someone who actually knows what he is talking
about. (You could probably tell that I was never in the debate club, though.
Although I do try. :) )
>But considering that the people who bring the films over here are generally
not the >original filmmakers they have no right to say how it is intended to be
seen.
They do have a right, it is called a contract saying that they can dub it and
bring it over here. :)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not how the original people intended it, but they do
have a right to say how they intend it to be seen because they have a contract
saying they can do stuff with it. :)
(Yeah, yeah, I'm being a little technical today. Maybe I should be a lawyer.
On second thought, judging from the rebuttal I will probably get, maybe not. :)
)
>Certain dubs make sense, such as Pokemon! For that its intended solely for
younger >audiences who probably do not know how to read or dont have the
patience to read the >subtitles anyway.
>Robotech on the otherhand is butchered art.
Why can Pokemon be dubbed and make sense while Robotech is butchered art? They
both were meant for the same target audience. (Albeit different times, though.
:) )
I don't see Robotech as butchered art. I'd take it over the three component
series anyday, even if the component series were redubed. (I guess I know how
the G1 lovers feel when seeing BW and BM.... except I want more new Robotech.
:) ) Hell, one of my favorite TV series of all time is Exo-Squad, and with a
little changed history and a few changed lined of dialogue, it could easily be
made into a new era of Robotech (there are PLENTY of similarities :) ). And I
would most likely like it much more as a part of Robotech then as just
Exo-Squad. :)
>>Well, I don't have a perfect collection of the series yet (the tapes are
kinda rare, but I >>can't wait for the DVDs. :) ), but from what I have seen,
there has been nothing to >>actually say where he is from. Still, since
Robotech was a story for an American >>audience, it does make sense for them to
"Americanize"
>>the main character. (I don't think he is Japanese at all in Robotech. :) )
>Hmm.....thought it stated in the series he was from Japan....
Well, it could have said that, but I either never picked that up while watching
or maybe don't have the episode yet. Although with a name like Rick Hunter, I
would think that he was from at least one of the western countries.... But,
like I said, as of right now, I can't confirm or deny this, only speculate
(Hmm..I guess my next batch of anime to watch will be the Macross saga of
Robotech. That is after I have seen vol.5 of Nadesico a few more times. (just
got it today...why, oh why won't they have more then two episodes on a tape?
*sniff*... :) ) )
>Umm.....I have Sentinels on tape and it never says "they took all our old VF-1
series >Veritechs".
Heh. Truthfully, I haven't been able to see the episodes for a while, so I am
going from memory. From seeing the other two parts, I'd say that they were
either taken with the REF, scrapped or upgraded to Alphas, or just in the
background. I don't see too many being around for them. As for why they just
didn't make more, it could esily do with Leonard. It could have been for
finatial reasons to make the Hovertanks and stuff, but it could also be because
of Leonard wanted the Southern Cross to be different then the REF was and
decided to make different mecha to distinguish them from the REF.
True, it was never explicitly stated as such, but from seeing Leonard's
attitude in the three Sentinels episodes and the Masters, that's what I get out
of it. :)
>>Well it isnt a transforming F-14 Tomcat. it just bears a similar resemblance
to the F->>14. Valkyrie is a perfectly appropriate name for a fictional
fighter. I dont see how you >>consider it inaccurate. Names in the military for
vessels, and fighters, are frequently >>re-used. Just look at how many
Enterprises there have been.(Im refering to the Naval >>Vessels, and Space
Shuttle, not the Starship)
Yeah, but by your reasoning "Veritech" is also a perfectly appropriate name for
a fictional fighter. It seems fine to me (plus, considering that I am biased
for the Robotech stuff and you are Macross. :) )
As for the Enterprise, would there be any navel vessels or Space Shuttle named
that if there wasn't a starship? :)
(Okay, okay, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about, but I
thought a little rhetorical question for a fellow "Star Trek over Star Wars"-er
was in order. :) )
>>By the way, do you know or recall the name that the "Destroid Monster" was
given in >>Macross VFX2 for the PS? That thong was cool, especially when they
made it >>transform. Damn, I wish VFX2 had made it here. :)
>The Monster wore a thong???
Yeah! Damn, that made that mecha look sexy. :)
(Heh. Now I sound like Seiya Uribatake from Nadesico. :) )
>>For "animation is the only true cannon" (like the TV shows and movies are in
Star >>Trek and the movies are in Star Wars), I don't know, but for the "true
Robotech >>story", then the Sentinels is definitely cannon. .
>Sorry that doesnt cut it. What was made of The Sentinels was cannon, but just
other >plot points were conceived does not make THAT cannon. Unless it was in a
final >animated format it is not cannon.
Well, with Star Trek, it has been stated (either by Roddenberry, or someone in
charge, I can't really remember right now :) ) that the "true" Star Trek is
the live action TV shows and movies. The books, comic books, cartoon, etc. are
not "true" cannon, and George Lucas has stated that the "real" Star Wars
continuity is the four movies, plus Shadows of the Empire. I believe that
Maceck, the one who wrote the three series together has stated that the
Sentinels *is* part of the "true" Robotech, although I will try to find
reference before I commit to saying that. :)
Plus, I *did* say that I like Robotech *as a whole* much better then the
Macross series, so the Sentinels is definitely cannon for that. :)
(Although I do also like the Robotech animation better then the Macross series
animation... :) )(Heh. The story and stuff of Robotech, not the actual
animation. Macross Plus was awesome, although the character desighns were a
little different and they still had the crappy singing. At least Dyson seems
to agree with me on that last part. :) )
>On a final note Harmony Gold are a bunch of whiners. They're now trying to
screw one >over on Toycom and saying that they own the rights to EVERYTHING
Macross(which >includes DYRL, Plus, 7, etc). In a sad attempt to make some
quick cash off of the >new Macross Plus Valkyries. Can we say jealousy?
Truthfully, they may have a legitimate case, but not using it for so long does
cast doubts, like with the previous releases of Macross Plus and Macross II....
_________________________________________________________________
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as SuperDave - a.k.a.
Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who says "Ni".
Wolverine (After fight with Mystique): Hey... It's me!
Cyclops: ...Prove it.
Deszaras
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron <unicr...@aol.communist> wrote in message
Ooooh.....I better stop you right here before someone jumps all over you.
ONLY the Shuttle Enterprise was named after the Starship. The Naval
vessels(minus the Nuclear Carrier) all preceeded the original series. The
Nuclear Carrier was just continuing the Navys tradition of having an
Enterprise and had nothing to do with Star Trek. Where do you think
Roddenberry came up with the name? off the back of a Cracker Jack box?
HG has previously stated that they have ONLY the rights to the DUBBED
original series. They're not even allowed to created new material with
Macross characters, or mecha. Hence why character designs were altered for
The Sentinels, and the use of the Legioss instead of the Valkyries. They
could use flashbacks but could not create anything new with that material.
They're just jumping over Toycom because Toycom is a small company. If HG
had a real case they would have done this years ago when Macross II was
released.
Now they know that they can only take on Toycom who is run by very few
people. If they bothered to take on Manga Video who is a much larger and
more well respected anime distributor, well they would have been eaten
alive.
Harmony Gold is doing a disservice to ALL Anime and transforming robot fans.
I urge any and ALL Transformers fans that plan to purchase these new
Valkyries to email Harmony Gold( in...@robotech.com ) and express your
displeasure and that you plan to boycott their products until they lift
their lawsuit.
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
Deszarus wrote:
>>As for the Enterprise, would there be any navel vessels or
>>Space Shuttle named that if there wasn't a starship? :)
>>(Okay, okay, that has nothing to do with what we are talking
>>about, but I thought a little rhetorical question for a
>>fellow "Star Trek over Star Wars"-er was in order. :) )
>Ooooh.....I better stop you right here before someone jumps all
>over you. ONLY the Shuttle Enterprise was named after the
>Starship. The Naval vessels(minus the Nuclear Carrier) all
>preceeded the original series. The Nuclear Carrier was just
>continuing the Navys tradition of having an Enterprise and had
>nothing to do with Star Trek. Where do you think Roddenberry
>came up with the name? off the back of a Cracker Jack box?
D'oh! Heh. This is what happens when I don't go over what I
write before I post. I *do* know these things (I need to to
fend off my damn Star Wars loving friends who say that Jar-Jar
can kill Kirk. Stupid Star Wars fans. :) ), but sometimes I
just type what comes to my head. :)
>>Truthfully, they may have a legitimate case, but not using it
>>for so long does cast doubts, like with the previous releases
>>of Macross Plus and Macross II....
>HG has previously stated that they have ONLY the rights to the
>DUBBED original series. They're not even allowed to created new
>material with Macross characters, or mecha. Hence why character
>designs were altered for The Sentinels, and the use of the
>Legioss instead of the Valkyries. They could use flashbacks but
>could not create anything new with that material.
I have heard some of this before, but I am assuming that it only
applies to animation, as there have been comics that use the
original stuff...
>They're just jumping over Toycom because Toycom is a small
>company. If HG had a real case they would have done this years
>ago when Macross II was released.
>Now they know that they can only take on Toycom who is run by
>very few people. If they bothered to take on Manga Video who is
>a much larger and more well respected anime distributor, well
>they would have been eaten alive.
>Harmony Gold is doing a disservice to ALL Anime and
>transforming robot fans. I urge any and ALL Transformers fans
>that plan to purchase these new Valkyries to email Harmony Gold
>( in...@robotech.com ) and express your displeasure and that you
>plan to boycott their products until they lift their lawsuit.
I do really want to get the Valkyries, but I am not really that
angry about the delay. Truthfully, I am more interested right
now in finding out what Harmony Gold *does* own. If they do own
it, cool. If they don't, at least we know for sure now. With
the delays so far, I'm not gonna complain if I have to wait a
little longer, plus I will get to know what Harmony Gold does
own.
And I, for one, would not boycott Harmony Gold or Robotech,
because if I can actually find something that I don't have, then
I'm gonna get it. (They are getting kinda rare around here. :) )
Plus, I am not one for boycotting. :)
_________________________________________________________________
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who
says "Ni".
-----------------------------------------------------------
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
>
> Deszarus wrote:
>
>
> >>As for the Enterprise, would there be any navel vessels or
> >>Space Shuttle named that if there wasn't a starship? :)
> >>(Okay, okay, that has nothing to do with what we are talking
> >>about, but I thought a little rhetorical question for a
> >>fellow "Star Trek over Star Wars"-er was in order. :) )
>
> >Ooooh.....I better stop you right here before someone jumps all
> >over you. ONLY the Shuttle Enterprise was named after the
> >Starship. The Naval vessels(minus the Nuclear Carrier) all
> >preceeded the original series. The Nuclear Carrier was just
> >continuing the Navys tradition of having an Enterprise and had
> >nothing to do with Star Trek. Where do you think Roddenberry
> >came up with the name? off the back of a Cracker Jack box?
>
> write before I post. I *do* know these things (I need to to
> fend off my damn Star Wars loving friends who say that Jar-Jar
> can kill Kirk. Stupid Star Wars fans. :) ), but sometimes I
> just type what comes to my head. :)
Just be glad I caught you on that one! You might have been responsible for
some Navy Afficianado having a lethal ulcer:)
Jim Kirk is the ultimate badass. Gets the women, and kicks the crap out of
the bad guys.
Though in my own way I REALLY like Jar Jar Binks. He didnt ruin the film for
me. It was Jake Lloyd that ruined it.
>
>
>
> >>Truthfully, they may have a legitimate case, but not using it
> >>for so long does cast doubts, like with the previous releases
> >>of Macross Plus and Macross II....
>
> >HG has previously stated that they have ONLY the rights to the
> >DUBBED original series. They're not even allowed to created new
> >material with Macross characters, or mecha. Hence why character
> >designs were altered for The Sentinels, and the use of the
> >Legioss instead of the Valkyries. They could use flashbacks but
> >could not create anything new with that material.
>
> I have heard some of this before, but I am assuming that it only
> applies to animation, as there have been comics that use the
> original stuff...
It does apply strictly to the animated material. Im not sure how the comic
licensing works out though. Creating new animated material using Macross
characters, and mecha, was pretty much forbidden. The licensing for Southern
Cross and Mospeada was much less strict. Hence why the Legioss was in The
Sentinels.
>
> >They're just jumping over Toycom because Toycom is a small
> >company. If HG had a real case they would have done this years
> >ago when Macross II was released.
> >Now they know that they can only take on Toycom who is run by
> >very few people. If they bothered to take on Manga Video who is
> >a much larger and more well respected anime distributor, well
> >they would have been eaten alive.
> >Harmony Gold is doing a disservice to ALL Anime and
> >transforming robot fans. I urge any and ALL Transformers fans
> >that plan to purchase these new Valkyries to email Harmony Gold
> >( in...@robotech.com ) and express your displeasure and that you
> >plan to boycott their products until they lift their lawsuit.
>
> I do really want to get the Valkyries, but I am not really that
> angry about the delay. Truthfully, I am more interested right
> now in finding out what Harmony Gold *does* own. If they do own
> it, cool. If they don't, at least we know for sure now. With
> the delays so far, I'm not gonna complain if I have to wait a
> little longer, plus I will get to know what Harmony Gold does
> own.
> And I, for one, would not boycott Harmony Gold or Robotech,
> because if I can actually find something that I don't have, then
> I'm gonna get it. (They are getting kinda rare around here. :) )
> Plus, I am not one for boycotting. :)
>
Lemme tell you something. Harmony Gold HOLDS NO RIGHTS to Macross Plus or
its mecha! Same goes for Macross II. I recommend you look closely at the
copyright on the videos and books for both Macross II, and Macross Plus. HG
is NEVER mentioned. They're just choosing now to make an uproar because of
the chances of competition for their new shitty series they have in
development. Carl Macek is the most uncreative man in existence.
Also for the subtitled argument if anyone has any appreciation for film as
an artform watch films subtitled, not dubbed. I took a film history class
for two years and dubbed films were forbidden in the classroom. If you
brought one in you were immediately expelled! Subbed is the only way to go
to truly appreciate the medium.
Michael Morbius
> I *do* know these things (I need to to
> fend off my damn Star Wars loving friends who say that Jar-Jar
> can kill Kirk.
And *that's* when you threw the first punch...?
Mike
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron
>>
>> D'oh! Heh. This is what happens when I don't go over what I
>> write before I post. I *do* know these things (I need to to
>> fend off my damn Star Wars loving friends who say that Jar-Jar
>> can kill Kirk. Stupid Star Wars fans. :) ), but sometimes I
>> just type what comes to my head. :)
>
>Just be glad I caught you on that one! You might have been responsible for
>some Navy Afficianado having a lethal ulcer:)
You have my thanks...but will one less Navy Afficianado really be a bad thing?
(Only kidding, only kidding! :) )
>Jim Kirk is the ultimate badass. Gets the women, and kicks the crap out of
>the bad guys.
Damn straight. Kirk would kick the crap outta Mr. T even. (hmm.. maybe I
souldn't go there. I think there be a lot of "T" fans on this group. :) )
Although Picard in "Insurrection" looked like he could also kick some ass. :)
>Though in my own way I REALLY like Jar Jar Binks. He didnt ruin the film for
>me. It was Jake Lloyd that ruined it.
I really don't mind Jar Jar as much as it seems I do, but he is one of the
"heavy artillery" to use against Star Wars fans. :)
The thing that really ruined the film for me is that it had a huge hype, but I
found it to be a very boring and predictable movie.
>
>Lemme tell you something. Harmony Gold HOLDS NO RIGHTS to Macross Plus or
>its mecha! Same goes for Macross II. I recommend you look closely at the
>copyright on the videos and books for both Macross II, and Macross Plus. HG
>is NEVER mentioned. They're just choosing now to make an uproar because of
>the chances of competition for their new shitty series they have in
>development. Carl Macek is the most uncreative man in existence.
>
Well, Macek was uncreative enough to link three different series together to
form a popular series which still has a large following today. Hell, if it
wasn't for Robotech, I most probably wouldn't be the anime fan that I am today.
(Although you probably wouldn't mind one less pro-dub person. :) )
As for the new "shitty series", I am looking foward to it far more then any
show, save a new Transformers show (If they bring Car Robots over here, I will
be very disappointed). And as long as they don't take Macross 7 and tie it to
Robotech, I will be happy. (although I wouldn't mind the use of the
mecha...although with current events, this will probably never happen. :) )
>Also for the subtitled argument if anyone has any appreciation for film as an
artform >watch films subtitled, not dubbed. I took a film history class
>for two years and dubbed films were forbidden in the classroom. If you
>brought one in you were immediately expelled! Subbed is the only way to go
>to truly appreciate the medium.
>
I appreciate film as an artform, but I would truly rather enjoy it as
entertainment. To me, watching anime is just like watching another cartoon,
except it has a different style and can sometimes be more mature. (Note
"sometimes". Dragon Half, anyone? :) ). True, I can enjoy it when it is
subtitled, but I do enjoy it much much better when I watch it dubbed. (Not
only that, but I can do other things while watching, like homework, cleaning,
playing with my Transformers, etc. :) ). I do appreciate the medium, but I
would rather really enjoy it and not "appreciate" it (in your definition), then
"appreciate" it and not enjoy it or enjoy it less.
But hey, everyone has their opinion on the subject. :)
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>> I *do* know these things (I need to to
>> fend off my damn Star Wars loving friends who say that Jar-Jar
>> can kill Kirk.
>
>
of Star Wars when I can just use a phaser? :) ), but, after I
stop laughing hysterically, we usually settle it with a nice
game of Goldeneye or Super Smash Bros. Unfortunately, while I
do reign supreme in Super Smash Bros., there is one on the "Star
Wars side" that does give me a run for my money in Goldeneye.
At least it gets us to shut up with whatever "Star Trek vs. Star
Wars" debate we had going on. :)
And at least he agrees that Transformers are awesome. We even
agree that Beast Machines is awesome. :)
_________________________________________________________________
__
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who
says "Ni".
-----------------------------------------------------------
Deszaras
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron <unicr...@aol.communist> wrote in message
> Deszaras wrote:
>
> >>
> >> D'oh! Heh. This is what happens when I don't go over what I
> >> fend off my damn Star Wars loving friends who say that Jar-Jar
> >> just type what comes to my head. :)
> >
> >Just be glad I caught you on that one! You might have been responsible
for
> >some Navy Afficianado having a lethal ulcer:)
>
> You have my thanks...but will one less Navy Afficianado really be a bad
thing?
> (Only kidding, only kidding! :) )
>
> >Jim Kirk is the ultimate badass. Gets the women, and kicks the crap out
of
> >the bad guys.
>
> Damn straight. Kirk would kick the crap outta Mr. T even. (hmm.. maybe I
> souldn't go there. I think there be a lot of "T" fans on this group. :) )
> Although Picard in "Insurrection" looked like he could also kick some ass.
:)
>
> >Though in my own way I REALLY like Jar Jar Binks. He didnt ruin the film
for
> >me. It was Jake Lloyd that ruined it.
>
> I really don't mind Jar Jar as much as it seems I do, but he is one of the
> "heavy artillery" to use against Star Wars fans. :)
>
> The thing that really ruined the film for me is that it had a huge hype,
but I
> found it to be a very boring and predictable movie.
You know what Ep 1 reminded me of? The much hyped Jurassic Park ride at
Universal. My cousin and I headed on over and went on it the third day it
was open(WAAAAAY back in 1996). I got off the ride thinking "This is neat,
but was it really anything new?". Now the Back To The Future ride, thats
ICNREDIBLE!!!! It actually broke new grounds in visual effects for a thrill
ride.
>
> >
> >Lemme tell you something. Harmony Gold HOLDS NO RIGHTS to Macross Plus or
> >its mecha! Same goes for Macross II. I recommend you look closely at the
> >copyright on the videos and books for both Macross II, and Macross Plus.
HG
> >is NEVER mentioned. They're just choosing now to make an uproar because
of
> >the chances of competition for their new shitty series they have in
> >development. Carl Macek is the most uncreative man in existence.
> >
> Well, Macek was uncreative enough to link three different series together
to
> form a popular series which still has a large following today. Hell, if
it
> wasn't for Robotech, I most probably wouldn't be the anime fan that I am
today.
> (Although you probably wouldn't mind one less pro-dub person. :) )
But alot of people mistake Robotech for being the reason everyone in America
is interested in Japanese Animation. There was SOOOOOO much before Robotech.
Starblazers, Gigantor, Shogun Warriors, Voltron, Speed Racer, etc.
Also those really werent the epitome of Japanese anime anyhow. I credit the
major mainstream interest in Anime to AKIRA. Which paved the way for Anime
films to be released theatrically such as Ghost In The Shell, Perfect Blue,
X, Mononoke Hime, etc.
>
> As for the new "shitty series", I am looking foward to it far more then
any
> show, save a new Transformers show (If they bring Car Robots over here, I
will
> be very disappointed). And as long as they don't take Macross 7 and tie
it to
> Robotech, I will be happy. (although I wouldn't mind the use of the
> mecha...although with current events, this will probably never happen.
:) )
But Macross 7 is what Macross is all about.
Macross isnt a big Star Wars style romp. Its about a culture based around
warfare exposed to a different culture. One filled with music, art, love,
etc. The Zentraedi become educated and develop the knowledge that there is
more to life than war and death. They could fire all the missiles they
wanted, but the power of Protoculture was what won it for the humans.
Protoculture IS NOT a goddamn flower!!!
>
> >Also for the subtitled argument if anyone has any appreciation for film
as an
> artform >watch films subtitled, not dubbed. I took a film history class
> >for two years and dubbed films were forbidden in the classroom. If you
> >brought one in you were immediately expelled! Subbed is the only way to
go
> >to truly appreciate the medium.
> >
> I appreciate film as an artform, but I would truly rather enjoy it as
> entertainment. To me, watching anime is just like watching another
cartoon,
> except it has a different style and can sometimes be more mature. (Note
> "sometimes". Dragon Half, anyone? :) ). True, I can enjoy it when it is
> subtitled, but I do enjoy it much much better when I watch it dubbed.
(Not
> only that, but I can do other things while watching, like homework,
cleaning,
> playing with my Transformers, etc. :) ). I do appreciate the medium, but
I
> would rather really enjoy it and not "appreciate" it (in your definition),
then
> "appreciate" it and not enjoy it or enjoy it less.
> But hey, everyone has their opinion on the subject. :)
Using The Transformers: The Headmasters as an example it IS NOT clear to me
why anyone can prefer those AWFUL English dubs, to subtitles.
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron <unicr...@aol.communist> wrote
>>
years, and the last time I went to Orlando was when I was 6.
That was something like...um...lemme count...13 years ago (hope
I did me math right. :) ). I don't think they even had the
Universal Studios park back then. Just Disney World and Sea
World. All this talk of rides makes me really want to go down
there again. And soon. Oh well, maybe I'll head on over to Six
Flags New England. Of course I'd probably get on the next
coaster ride that screws up. (They've had a few accidents over
the past few years. :) )
>
>>Well, Macek was uncreative enough to link three different
>>series together to form a popular series which still has a
>>large following today. Hell, if it wasn't for Robotech, I most
>>probably wouldn't be the anime fan that I am today. (Although
>>you probably wouldn't mind one less pro-dub person. :) )
>But alot of people mistake Robotech for being the reason
>everyone in America is interested in Japanese Animation. There
>was SOOOOOO much before Robotech. Starblazers, Gigantor, Shogun
>Warriors, Voltron, Speed Racer, etc. Also those really werent
>the epitome of Japanese anime anyhow. I credit the major
>mainstream interest in Anime to AKIRA. Which paved the way for.
>Anime films to be released theatrically such as Ghost In The
>Shell, Perfect Blue, X, Mononoke Hime, etc.
Well, I know exactly what you are saying. (Heh. The funny
thing about Akira is that it uses some Robotech voice
actors. :) ). The reason why Robotech brought ME into anime
was because about three years ago I had been thinking about
starting to watch anime, so I got a few of the Robotech tapes
and was totally hooked to the series (hard finding the tapes
now. Damn, I can't wait for the DVDs to come out. :) ). I
watched it as a kid, but it wasn't until I got the tapes that I
understood evrything and it became one of my favorite series.
Since then I have amassed a large anime collection (mostly
dubs. :) ) and will probably continue for years to come. But
Robotech still remains as one of my favorite series of all
time. Sure, then newer ones have better animation and dubs (not
that Robotech's was that bad), but few can take me into the
story as Robotech can.
As for the anime movies, aside from the Pokemon movies, they are
only at select places, so I have to wait for video on mose.
(Wait a sec...if I remember correctly, isn't X coming out
Tomorrow?!!!!!!!! :) ). In fact, the only one that I have
been able to see in theaters is Princess Mononoke (this was
definitly one of the best that I have seen). I hope that within
the next few years that they will have a wider distribution in
theaters for anime movies. Then I can see more in theaters. :)
(Although my school *does* have a nice huge lecture room with a
TV projector. Nothing beats watching all 7 episodes of Giant
Robo on a near theater size screen or MST3K-ing Green Legend Ran
all with a large group of anime fans. :) )
>But Macross 7 is what Macross is all about.
>Macross isnt a big Star Wars style romp. Its about a culture
based around
>warfare exposed to a different culture. One filled with music,
art, love,
>etc. The Zentraedi become educated and develop the knowledge
that there is
>more to life than war and death. They could fire all the
missiles they
>wanted, but the power of Protoculture was what won it for the
humans.
>Protoculture IS NOT a goddamn flower!!!
>
Yes, in Macross, Protoculture is not a flower, but in Robotech,
it is made from a flower. Robotech did come from the three
series, but is a different series from the three components. :)
>
And the things I don't like about Macross 7 are:
The songs, the main characters (Basara in particular), Zentraedi
stealing souls, using "song energy" and "song energy" blasters,
Maeltrandi acting like crazed Beatles fans...for that little
bitch Basara, etc.
I do live the mecha designs, though. The best mecha of all time
have come from Robotech and it's component series, along with
their continuations which are not part of Robotech (especially
the Macross series. :) ).
>why anyone can prefer those AWFUL English dubs, to subtitles..
>
I can't comment on that, as I haven't seen it with the "famous"
dub, but I would have to say that I would take all the dubs that
are brought here officially over their sub counterparts. Sure,
I agree that some can be bad, but most are good to excellent.
They don't just have four guys sitting around reading lines,
they are carefully thought out and use many people (some are
used more then once, but in a different range of their voice),
many of whom are experienced in the voice action field, to bring
out the dub.
Sure, there are always exceptions for the rule, but more then
not, I find that I would rather bear a pretty bad dub (which I
truthfully haven't heard in a while...maybe when Funimation
first took DBZ over, but that got better), then have to bear
watching those annoying little subtitles. :)
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
"Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
>I was refering to Universal Studios Hollywood. I got ethical
>issues against the Orlando place, especially since it isnt an
>actual working studio unlike the Hollywood one.
Heh. Shows how much I know of theme parks these days. :)
I definitely have got to go to the Marvel (Marvel Island or
something?) one sometime. Dat's the one that sounds really
cool. :)
(Although, isn't it at Universal Studios Orlando? Oh well,
probably will be years before I am able to go anyway... )
>Actually anime gets fairly widely released here in Seattle on
>the bigscreen. Small compared to your massive Hollywood fodder.
>I saw Mononoke Hime on the second best screen in Seattle(For
>you Seattlites, Pacfic Place is a good place to go for movies).
Heh. The only one that has been released around here is
Princess Mononoke, and it was in a small four screen theater in
Natick (near Boston) that had three people working at it when I
went there (Well, it *was* a Monday and in the peak of the
Christmas shopping season, so... :) ).
>>Yes, in Macross, Protoculture is not a flower, but in
>>Robotech, it is made from a flower. Robotech did come from the
>>three series, but is a different series from the three
>>components. :)
>They should have named it something completely different then
>than perversing a perfectly acceptable name to using it for
>something that doesnt make sense. Mainly changing Protoculture
>to an energy source, which it is not and I will always refuse
>to accept Maceks messed up methods.
I truthfully like Macek's "messed up methods", they take three
good unrelated shows and make them into a show that I like much
better then any of them separately. :)
Since they named it "Protoculture", I have always had the
thought in my head of the Flower of Life being put into a
special culture (the laboratory kind :) ) that was put into the
Protoculture matrix that actually turned it into protoculture,
kinda like fermentation or something.
Then I saw DYRL (well, actually Clash of the Bionoids,
but... :) ) and when I heared their explanation of protoculture,
I'm like "What?...Oookay..." but I can see where both sides come
from. (By the way, I LOVE the way "Breetai" and "Exedore" say
protoculture in "Clash". "Pro-to-cul-ture? What is pro-to-cul-
ture?". I Love it. It is sooo funny. :) )
>>And the things I don't like about Macross 7 are:
>>The songs, the main characters (Basara in particular),
>>Zentraedi stealing souls, using "song energy" and "song
>>energy" blasters, Maeltrandi acting like crazed Beatles
>>fans...for that little bitch Basara, etc.
>>I do live the mecha designs, though. The best mecha of all
>>time have come from Robotech and it's component series, along
>>with their continuations which are not part of Robotech
>>(especially the Macross series. :) ).
>I was always fond of the Orguss mecha! Which is considered in
>the same ilk as they are apart of the Super Dimension series
>(Which are otherwise unrelated, except for the title).
>Actually some of the best mecha ever is from Gundam 0083:
>Stardust Memory. Which was also designed by Macross creator
>Shoji Kawamori. He designs some very intricately detailed and
>overall beautiful mecha!
I do like the Orguss mecha, but I am not that fond of any of the
Gundam mecha. Sure, some are cool looking, but overall, they
just don't have that "coolness" as any Valkyrie, Vritech,
Destroid, Cyclone, etc. Plus, it seems like the Valkyrie type
mecha are probably the best and most dangerous type in pretty
much any series.
If I could choose one, I'd have to pick the YF-19 as the coolest
mecha ever.
>>I can't comment on that, as I haven't seen it with
>>the "famous"
>>dub, but I would have to say that I would take all the dubs
>>that are brought here officially over their sub counterparts.
>>Sure, I agree that some can be bad, but most are good to
>>excellent. They don't just have four guys sitting around
>>reading lines, they are carefully thought out and use many
>>people (some are used more then once, but in a different range
>>of their voice), many of whom are experienced in the voice
>>action field, to bring out the dub.
>I can think of VERY few anime dubs that are good. Rumor has it
>that Pioneer is redubbing AKIRA for a theatrical rerelease, and
>its future DVD release. Though I am fond of Jimmy Flinders as
>Kaneda, and I am well aware he worked on Robotech as well. Its
>just his Robotech work wasnt anything to write grandma about. I
>still remember him as Leonardo on TMNT as well.
I also have heard about the possible redubbing. Hopefully they
will at least keep Flinders as Kaneda. It just wouldn't be the
same to me without him. :)
I can think of MANY anime dubs that are good. In fact, I can't
say that I have seen a really bad dub, especially recently.
Like I said before, some are better then others, but I find that
the majority sound very natural and have the voices fit the
characters and such.
I guess we just have different taste when it comes to anime
dub/sub. :)
>Robotech is just dubbed very poorly. Though it isnt entirely
>the actors fault as the dialogue was weak to begin with. Reba
>West sounds like a banshee, Exedore sounded like some USC
>English Professor that was kicked in the nuts, and the
>narration is overdone and horrendous. It seems the writers felt
>the viewers were not able to comprehend the story at all, so
>they needed this annoying narrator to describe every single
>damn event that is going on!
I would not say that Robotech was dubbed poorly. Sure, it is
not the best, but it is not that bad, either. (Truthfully, I
can't think of a real bad dub that I have seen. Closest is the
early Funimation DBZ, but even that wasn't so bad as to make me
want to watch it subtitled.) The only thing about Robotech's
dub is the amount of times they say "oh". Besides that, I don't
mind it a bit. (Except for Minmei's singing, but that is a
mutual thing for Robotech and Macross. :) )
Sure, there are always exceptions for the rule, but more then
not, I find that I would rather bear a pretty bad dub (which I
truthfully haven't heard in a while...maybe when Funimation
first took DBZ over, but that got better), then have to bear
watching those annoying little subtitles. :)
>I dont see why people dont want to watch the film like its
> envisioned by the director!
And I don't see why people don't like Beast Machines.
Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Personally, while I
do care how the director envisioned it, I would much rather get
it dubbed in english where I can understand everything that is
going on and be able to enjoy it more. I find that having to
take time for the subtitles takes away from my enjoyment, plus
it also takes away some of the emotion of what is going on.
Sure, I know that dubs can get the emotion wrong as well, but it
is much easier, at least for me, to understand it with the dubs
then with subtitles. (Although if I watched more subs, I might
learn how to...but I don't see that happening anytime soon. :) ).
>There was actually a nice website out on the net promoting the
>better dubbing of anime, using Robotech as an example of HOW
>NOT to dub.
I've also seen "nice" websites on the net using Beast Machines
as an example of how not to make a Transformers series.
Needless to say, I don't agree with either of them. :)
Taking into account when Robotech was dubbed and how much has
been done since then, I do agree that dubs have gotten better
then in the 80's, but there is also a lot more dubs being done
today and a much larger amount of people experienced in dubbing
anime, so of course most are going to sound better. Robotech
may heve been early when compared to today, but it is still not
a bad dub. It seems the biggest thing people have against it is
that it changes the stories and names and characters around. To
me, it made a better story that I could get into easier, and
while I know that soem don't like it because it changes stuff, I
will always like it. :)
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:12304ed9...@usw-ex0105-036.remarq.com...
I was refering to Universal Studios Hollywood. I got ethical issues against
the Orlando place, especially since it isnt an actual working studio unlike
the Hollywood one.
> >
>
Actually anime gets fairly widely released here in Seattle on the bigscreen.
Small compared to your massive Hollywood fodder. I saw Mononoke Hime on the
second best screen in Seattle(For you Seattlites, Pacfic Place is a good
place to go for movies).
>
> >But Macross 7 is what Macross is all about.
> >Macross isnt a big Star Wars style romp. Its about a culture
> based around
> >warfare exposed to a different culture. One filled with music,
> art, love,
> >etc. The Zentraedi become educated and develop the knowledge
> that there is
> >more to life than war and death. They could fire all the
> missiles they
> >wanted, but the power of Protoculture was what won it for the
> humans.
> >Protoculture IS NOT a goddamn flower!!!
> >
> Yes, in Macross, Protoculture is not a flower, but in Robotech,
> it is made from a flower. Robotech did come from the three
> series, but is a different series from the three components. :)
They should have named it something completely different then than
perversing a perfectly acceptable name to using it for something that doesnt
make sense. Mainly changing Protoculture to an energy source, which it is
not and I will always refuse to accept Maceks messed up methods.
> >
> And the things I don't like about Macross 7 are:
> The songs, the main characters (Basara in particular), Zentraedi
> stealing souls, using "song energy" and "song energy" blasters,
> Maeltrandi acting like crazed Beatles fans...for that little
> bitch Basara, etc.
> I do live the mecha designs, though. The best mecha of all time
> have come from Robotech and it's component series, along with
> their continuations which are not part of Robotech (especially
> the Macross series. :) ).
I was always fond of the Orguss mecha! Which is considered in the same ilk
as they are apart of the Super Dimension series(Which are otherwise
unrelated, except for the title).
Actually some of the best mecha ever is from Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory.
Which was also designed by Macross creator Shoji Kawamori. He designs some
very intricately detailed and overall beautiful mecha!
> >>
> >> >
I can think of VERY few anime dubs that are good.
Rumor has it that Pioneer is redubbing AKIRA for a theatrical rerelease, and
its future DVD release. Though I am fond of Jimmy Flinders as Kaneda, and I
am well aware he worked on Robotech as well. Its just his Robotech work
wasnt anything to write grandma about. I still remember him as Leonardo on
TMNT as well.
Robotech is just dubbed very poorly. Though it isnt entirely the actors
fault as the dialogue was weak to begin with. Reba West sounds like a
banshee, Exedore sounded like some USC English Professor that was kicked in
the nuts, and the narration is overdone and horrendous. It seems the writers
felt the viewers were not able to comprehend the story at all, so they
needed this annoying narrator to describe every single damn event that is
going on!
> Sure, there are always exceptions for the rule, but more then
> not, I find that I would rather bear a pretty bad dub (which I
> truthfully haven't heard in a while...maybe when Funimation
> first took DBZ over, but that got better), then have to bear
> watching those annoying little subtitles. :)
>
I dont see why people dont want to watch the film like its envisioned by the
director!
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
Clash of The Bionoids is a major hackjob of DYRL as almost thiry minutes are
cut from it. It has despicable dubbing to boot.
>
>
>
> >>And the things I don't like about Macross 7 are:
> >>The songs, the main characters (Basara in particular),
> >>Zentraedi stealing souls, using "song energy" and "song
> >>energy" blasters, Maeltrandi acting like crazed Beatles
> >>fans...for that little bitch Basara, etc.
> >>I do live the mecha designs, though. The best mecha of all
> >>time have come from Robotech and it's component series, along
> >>with their continuations which are not part of Robotech
> >>(especially the Macross series. :) ).
>
> >I was always fond of the Orguss mecha! Which is considered in
> >the same ilk as they are apart of the Super Dimension series
> >(Which are otherwise unrelated, except for the title).
> >Actually some of the best mecha ever is from Gundam 0083:
> >Stardust Memory. Which was also designed by Macross creator
> >Shoji Kawamori. He designs some very intricately detailed and
> >overall beautiful mecha!
>
> I do like the Orguss mecha, but I am not that fond of any of the
> Gundam mecha. Sure, some are cool looking, but overall, they
> just don't have that "coolness" as any Valkyrie, Vritech,
> Destroid, Cyclone, etc. Plus, it seems like the Valkyrie type
> mecha are probably the best and most dangerous type in pretty
> much any series.
> If I could choose one, I'd have to pick the YF-19 as the coolest
> mecha ever.
A Zeta Gundam has the sheer firepower to take down any Valkyrie.
Cop out! Your not giving examples! Support your reasoning with examples! I
may not like it, but i'll at least respect your opinion when you can give
examples. Otherwise i'll have at you!
>
> >Robotech is just dubbed very poorly. Though it isnt entirely
> >the actors fault as the dialogue was weak to begin with. Reba
> >West sounds like a banshee, Exedore sounded like some USC
> >English Professor that was kicked in the nuts, and the
> >narration is overdone and horrendous. It seems the writers felt
> >the viewers were not able to comprehend the story at all, so
> >they needed this annoying narrator to describe every single
> >damn event that is going on!
>
> I would not say that Robotech was dubbed poorly. Sure, it is
> not the best, but it is not that bad, either. (Truthfully, I
> can't think of a real bad dub that I have seen. Closest is the
> early Funimation DBZ, but even that wasn't so bad as to make me
> want to watch it subtitled.) The only thing about Robotech's
> dub is the amount of times they say "oh". Besides that, I don't
> mind it a bit. (Except for Minmei's singing, but that is a
> mutual thing for Robotech and Macross. :) )
How many times does Minmay need to say "Oh Rick!"?????? Its frickin
annoying. Its a hackjob. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
> Sure, there are always exceptions for the rule, but more then
> not, I find that I would rather bear a pretty bad dub (which I
> truthfully haven't heard in a while...maybe when Funimation
> first took DBZ over, but that got better), then have to bear
> watching those annoying little subtitles. :)
>
> >I dont see why people dont want to watch the film like its
> > envisioned by the director!
>
> And I don't see why people don't like Beast Machines.
That has no bearing on the subbed or dubbed argument whatsoever. Why did you
bother to bring it up?
> Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Personally, while I
> do care how the director envisioned it, I would much rather get
> it dubbed in english where I can understand everything that is
> going on and be able to enjoy it more.
You seem like a smart and reasonable guy to me. You should be able to read
and understand the story.
I get in the same argument about AKIRA. Anyone who is smart enough to
understand the story is smart enought to read.
I find that having to
> take time for the subtitles takes away from my enjoyment, plus
> it also takes away some of the emotion of what is going on.
> Sure, I know that dubs can get the emotion wrong as well, but it
> is much easier, at least for me, to understand it with the dubs
> then with subtitles. (Although if I watched more subs, I might
> learn how to...but I don't see that happening anytime soon. :) ).
Wanna know a deep dark secret of mine? I used to think like you do.
I then began watching more subs though as I was getting more dissatisfied
with the quality of dubbing. At first I didnt care how poor the acting was,
I could just listen. Later it just grained on me. Getting used to subs is
like quitting smoking(Of which im glad to say I have completely quit). Takes
time and patience.
Though do recognize im not comparing smoking to watching dubs. One is bad
for you and the other is well, less bad for you:)
Seriously it takes a certain appreciation of the effort the Japanese actors
put into their work. Much more so than I can say about any dubber on
Robotech.
I loosely even consider the Robotech cast as voice actors. Compare him to
the American ilk of Mel Blanc, Frank Welker, and Alan Young, just to name a
few legends in the field.
>
> >There was actually a nice website out on the net promoting the
> >better dubbing of anime, using Robotech as an example of HOW
> >NOT to dub.
>
> I've also seen "nice" websites on the net using Beast Machines
> as an example of how not to make a Transformers series.
>
> Needless to say, I don't agree with either of them. :)
> Taking into account when Robotech was dubbed and how much has
> been done since then, I do agree that dubs have gotten better
> then in the 80's, but there is also a lot more dubs being done
> today and a much larger amount of people experienced in dubbing
> anime, so of course most are going to sound better. Robotech
> may heve been early when compared to today, but it is still not
> a bad dub. It seems the biggest thing people have against it is
> that it changes the stories and names and characters around. To
> me, it made a better story that I could get into easier, and
> while I know that soem don't like it because it changes stuff, I
> will always like it. :)
So your saying there have been many leaps and technological advances in the
art of voice acting since the 1980s?
Hmm............I wonder how Warner Bros and Disney pulled it off before
then?
Michael Morbius
> But alot of people mistake Robotech for being the reason everyone in America
> is interested in Japanese Animation.
It was for me and my friends. We never got to *any* of the Sixties
animation (like *Speed Racer*) and hardly any of the Seventies animation
(we didn't get to see *Starblazers*). What little Seventies animation we
saw like *Battle of the Planets* went right by us without us realizing it
was Japanese animation. *Robotech* was the show that made us *aware* of
the fact that Japanese animation existed in both anime-style shows and
non-anime-style shows like *GI Joe*.
So I would say that *Robotech* was by no means the introduction to anime
for anyone *over 27*.
> There was SOOOOOO much before Robotech.
> Starblazers, Gigantor, Shogun Warriors, Voltron, Speed Racer, etc.
Yes. And much of it rocks. I should clarify that. I enjoyed it once it
came back for the second time (1986 or later) and I could see it.
> Also those really werent the epitome of Japanese anime anyhow. I credit the
> major mainstream interest in Anime to AKIRA. Which paved the way for Anime
> films to be released theatrically such as Ghost In The Shell, Perfect Blue,
> X, Mononoke Hime, etc.
Ah yes. *That* kind of anime being available at Blockbuster *is* because
of *Akira*. Good point.
> Using The Transformers: The Headmasters as an example it IS NOT clear to me
> why anyone can prefer those AWFUL English dubs, to subtitles.
It's too hard to decide. There are so many bad dubs--and yet in theory if
one were done properly it would be my preference hands-down.
Mike
Michael Morbius
>>And *that's* when you threw the first punch...?
>>
> No, no, no, I usually refrain from that (Why sink to the level
> of Star Wars when I can just use a phaser? :) )
(It's just that Scotty sunk to that in "Tribbles.")
Mike
Deszaras
Michael Morbius <mor...@vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:8ljv0i$iik$5...@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca...
> Deszaras <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> > But alot of people mistake Robotech for being the reason everyone in
America
> > is interested in Japanese Animation.
>
> animation (like *Speed Racer*) and hardly any of the Seventies animation
> (we didn't get to see *Starblazers*). What little Seventies animation we
> saw like *Battle of the Planets* went right by us without us realizing it
> was Japanese animation. *Robotech* was the show that made us *aware* of
> the fact that Japanese animation existed in both anime-style shows and
> non-anime-style shows like *GI Joe*.
>
> So I would say that *Robotech* was by no means the introduction to anime
> for anyone *over 27*.
>
> > Starblazers, Gigantor, Shogun Warriors, Voltron, Speed Racer, etc.
>
> came back for the second time (1986 or later) and I could see it.
>
the
> > major mainstream interest in Anime to AKIRA. Which paved the way for
Anime
> > films to be released theatrically such as Ghost In The Shell, Perfect
Blue,
> > X, Mononoke Hime, etc.
>
> of *Akira*. Good point.
>
me
> > why anyone can prefer those AWFUL English dubs, to subtitles.
>
> one were done properly it would be my preference hands-down.
>
Ok using Headmasters as an example again. Here is how I would redub the
show(Which will never happened, its just wishful thinking). I would round up
the surviving castmembers of the original american series. You would need to
replace Scatman Crothers, but they did it in an ActionMasters commercial and
that came off well. Then you round up a reputable voice director, preferably
someone who is familiar with the characters and the actors.
Translate the show to english while keeping the original dialogue intact as
humanly possible(Changes have to be made in the translation process though).
Then dub away like crazy.
You sell Headmasters as a DVD boxset with the both the english and japanese
audio tracks. They will sell like hotcakes with the appeal of both the
general anime community, and Transformers fans.
Of course thats pure speculation. Probably cost Hasbro an arm and a leg to
get all that done(With licensing costs, actors salaries, etc). But if Hasbro
ever decides to do something for the entertainment of the original fans and
spend a buttload of money on it, I would take this over new vehicle
Transformers toys anyday.
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron
>
>
>SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
>message news:0e64e976...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com...
>>
>> "Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>
>Clash of The Bionoids is a major hackjob of DYRL as almost thiry minutes are
>cut from it. It has despicable dubbing to boot.
>
I agree that it dosen't have the greatest dub and that it could have been
unedited, but I still found it to be more interesting then when I sae DYRL
subtitled. Sure, I paid attention to the scenes that were cut out, but
overall, it really didn't seem as interesting as when I watch it dubbed.
(plus, theyt don't say "Protoculture" nearly as cool as in the dub. :) ). If I
remember correctlly, they finally brought out an unedited dub, I think last
year. I've got to get it sooner or later. :)
>
>>
>> I do like the Orguss mecha, but I am not that fond of any of the
>> Gundam mecha. Sure, some are cool looking, but overall, they
>> just don't have that "coolness" as any Valkyrie, Vritech,
>> Destroid, Cyclone, etc. Plus, it seems like the Valkyrie type
>> mecha are probably the best and most dangerous type in pretty
>> much any series.
>> If I could choose one, I'd have to pick the YF-19 as the coolest
>> mecha ever.
>
>A Zeta Gundam has the sheer firepower to take down any Valkyrie.
>
It may have the sheer firepower, but a Valkyrie in the right hands (like Dyson
:) ), is fast and versitile enough to do some real damage to pretty much
anything. :)
Although, truthfully, this is in the very same ilk as "Star Trek vs. Star
Wars", as they are in different universes with different physics, so while it
is fun to speculate and stuff, we will never TRULY know unless there is a true
* vs. * made. (like Marvel vs. Capcom. Damn I kinda feel sorry for the Capcom
characters....:) )(Marvel vs. DC dosen't count because it had the fans choose
the big battles, making it a popularity poll instead of a true battle. Of
course, I love Marvel better then DC, but I do think that Wonder Woman would
probably have won. That said, I also believe that Captain America should have
won, and also that the Hulk should have kicked Superman's keister, as he would
in a real fight. ...um...what were we talking about?....Oh yeah! On to my next
reply! :) )
>>
>>
>> I can think of MANY anime dubs that are good. In fact, I can't
>> say that I have seen a really bad dub, especially recently.
>> Like I said before, some are better then others, but I find that
>> the majority sound very natural and have the voices fit the
>> characters and such.
>> I guess we just have different taste when it comes to anime
>> dub/sub. :)
>
>Cop out! Your not giving examples! Support your reasoning with examples! I
>may not like it, but i'll at least respect your opinion when you can give
>examples. Otherwise i'll have at you!
>
Well, I have said that I'd take dubs over subs, so I guess I was just using
that. For specific examples of ones I love (I have many, but I'll just give a
few), there's Tenchi Muyo, El-Hazard, Cowboy Bebop, Ranma 1/2, Oh My Goddess,
Special Duty Combat Unit Shinseman (I would have to say that the dub is much,
much funnier then the sub. Sub: "She is from planet nuts" - Dub: "She's one
OVA short of a series." :) ), Trigun, Giant Robo, Digimon, Princess Mononoke,
Slayers, Teknoman (Hey! I love the changed names and stuff. "Ringo" and
"Star", man that is funny, yet cool. Yes, I am a Beatles fan. :) ) my current
favorite Martian Suceesor Nadesico (While in retrospect, the first volume is
where the actors got used to the characters, and since have sounded natural and
not forced at all. Truthfully, this is one that I CANNOT watch the sub, I love
the dub so much. I got the fansubbed movie, and having watched a few miniutes
into it, cannot go further. The dub is so ingrained into me that the
characters without the voices that I am used to just sound wrong. Plus, I
don't want to spoil the series for me. Maybe I'll be in a better mood after the
entire series comes out. :) ), etc.
Some do have not so great dubs, but I still like them, like Clash of the
Bionoids, Wild 7 (It is an "okay" series, but that opening was awesome. :) ),
DBZ (the first few with Funimation. Why, oh why did they have to take the
Transformers voice actors out? :) ), and I was also kinds disappointed with
the Slayers OVAs (the voice acting isnt bad, but I am so used to the voices on
the TV series that it just didn't seem the same to me.) But, at least to me,
none of these make me feel in the slightest like I would rather see them
subtitled.
Truthfully, when I have to get the sub, as with Tylor and Escaflowne, I see
them and really like them, and I wish that they would be dubbed. (Both these
cases have come true. Tylor has a cool dub, and I am planning to get it and
get rid of my sub sooner or later, and I will get the Escaflowne DVDs when they
come out, get rid of my subs of it, and probably never see the sub ever again,
well, at least never watch the sub on my own ever again. :) )
>
>> I would not say that Robotech was dubbed poorly. Sure, it is
>> not the best, but it is not that bad, either. (Truthfully, I
>> can't think of a real bad dub that I have seen. Closest is the
>> early Funimation DBZ, but even that wasn't so bad as to make me
>> want to watch it subtitled.) The only thing about Robotech's
>> dub is the amount of times they say "oh". Besides that, I don't
>> mind it a bit. (Except for Minmei's singing, but that is a
>> mutual thing for Robotech and Macross. :) )
>
>How many times does Minmay need to say "Oh Rick!"?????? Its frickin
>annoying. Its a hackjob. Nothing more, nothing less.
>
Well, I do agree that the "oh!"s and "oh Rick!"s were a littly annoying, but
there is not much else that is that bad (besides the songs. I am not that fond
of either Macross' or Robotech's songs. They all seem annoying, especially
Fire Bomber's songs... Although I am kinda exclusive with the songs I like. :)
) .
>
>>
>> Sure, there are always exceptions for the rule, but more then
>> not, I find that I would rather bear a pretty bad dub (which I
>> truthfully haven't heard in a while...maybe when Funimation
>> first took DBZ over, but that got better), then have to bear
>> watching those annoying little subtitles. :)
>>
>> >I dont see why people dont want to watch the film like its
>> > envisioned by the director!
>>
>> And I don't see why people don't like Beast Machines.
>
>That has no bearing on the subbed or dubbed argument whatsoever. Why did you
>bother to bring it up?
>
This is a Transformers newsgroup? :)
Nah, it does bear a little significance....damn, I just re-read what I said,
and I didn't word it the way I thought I did. I wanted to say something like
"And I don't see why people don't watch Beast Machines as the next Transformers
show." (or something like that. It *did* have meaning, but I definitely worded
it wrong. :) )
>> Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. Personally, while I
>> do care how the director envisioned it, I would much rather get
>> it dubbed in english where I can understand everything that is
>> going on and be able to enjoy it more.
>
>You seem like a smart and reasonable guy to me. You should be able to read
>and understand the story.
>I get in the same argument about AKIRA. Anyone who is smart enough to
>understand the story is smart enought to read.
>
But I never learned to read! Wait, what is that you just wrote? "You should
be able to read and understand the story."......D'oh! :)
Alright, my bad attempt a humor aside, I can read and understand the story,
but, as I have said before, that does take away from my overall enjoyment of
watching the shows. Watching subs may be more to the director's intent, but I
would rather watch dubs because, being able to totally understand the words
that are coming out of their mouths helps me get into the story much better
then when I have to read the translstion of what they are saying. (I do like
books, but I have always loved TV, movies, and comic books much better then
books because they hepled me get a better reasoning of the story and have more
enjoyment when I see what is happening, hear the emotion, and see the
developments. Heh. This coming from a guy who has a VERY actice imagination.
:) )
>
>Wanna know a deep dark secret of mine? I used to think like you do.
>I then began watching more subs though as I was getting more dissatisfied
>with the quality of dubbing. At first I didnt care how poor the acting was,
>I could just listen. Later it just grained on me. Getting used to subs is
>like quitting smoking(Of which im glad to say I have completely quit). Takes
>time and patience.
Well, after being in anime for over four years, I can honestly say that nothing
in voice acting has ever grained on me, EXCEPT for those loud, squeaky,
annoying Japanese girl voices. I find THAT the most annoying thing about
anime. It is one of the reasons why I really don't like Tenchi Muyo as much
subbed as I love the dub. Heh, Minmei makes a better Mihoshi (shame they
changed her for "Tokyo", but it still isn't bad at all. :) )
>Though do recognize im not comparing smoking to watching dubs. One is bad
>for you and the other is well, less bad for you:)
>Seriously it takes a certain appreciation of the effort the Japanese actors
>put into their work. Much more so than I can say about any dubber on
>Robotech.
And the Japanese can't do bad dubs themselves? I can't believe that they can't
do just as bad with their own material as what you believe of most english
dubs. (Although I can't give a specific example, because I am not as
experienced with subs, and am inclined to say that dubs are much better then
any sub. :) )
>I loosely even consider the Robotech cast as voice actors. Compare him to
>the American ilk of Mel Blanc, Frank Welker, and Alan Young, just to name a
>few legends in the field.
>
I would definitely call them voice actors. In fact, they are some of my most
favorite and most recognizable voice actors to me. (I just went to
robotech.com yesterday and heard "Admiral Rick Hunter" along with the Robotech
theme music. And I LOVED it, although I haven't been able to get the theme out
of my head since then...but hey, that's not a bad thing. :) )
>So your saying there have been many leaps and technological advances in the
>art of voice acting since the 1980s?
>Hmm............I wonder how Warner Bros and Disney pulled it off before
>then?
>
No, no, no, what I am talking about is the way that anime is handled and
brought over here and dubbed. Nowadays there are many more people in the field
who know what they are doing and are experienced at translating and dubbing
anime. What I am saying is that the quality of the translations and dubs have
only been increasing with more experienced people in the field. Dat's wat I
saying. :)
Now, if you'll excuse me for a little while, I'm gonna go and finally watch
"X". Dubbed, of course. :)
___________________________________________________________________
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as SuperDave - a.k.a.
Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who says "Ni".
And really needs to think of something else to put in his sig.
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>>>And *that's* when you threw the first punch...?
>>>
>> No, no, no, I usually refrain from that (Why sink to the level
>> of Star Wars when I can just use a phaser? :) )
>
>(It's just that Scotty sunk to that in "Tribbles.")
But..but..the Klingon started it! I've even heard that he was
not only a Klingon, but also liked Star Wars over Star Trek and
wouldn't shut up about the the stupid things he thought Star
Wars was better at! So Scotty had every right to throw the
first punch! He didn't sink to their level, he was kind enough
to show theat damn Klingon the error of his ways. I have even
heard that that Klingon is now one of the high priests of
laughing at the stupid things in Star Wars, while ignoring Star
Trek's and praising how good Star Trek is. :)
_________________________________________________________________
__
Formerly known as Unicron. Now known as Unicron - a.k.a.
SuperDave.
Soon to be known as the Unicron who says "Ni".
-----------------------------------------------------------
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>"They dont say Protoculture nearly as cool as the dub"????? I
>just find that comment atrocious. I just love it at the end in
>the original version when Bodolza is being killed and
>screams "PROTOCULTURE!!!!!"
>MUCH superior than ANYTHING in that dub.
But I just love the way the dub Zentraedi say "pro-to-cul-
ture". It is a little drawn out and makes it sound funny. :)
>There was an unedited dub as well actually. It was just titled
>Super Dimensional Fortress Macross. Crappy boxart to go with
>the dubbing. Im gonna stick with my widescreen subbed copy
>until an American DVD is released.
Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. I've got to get that
one sometime. Then I can give away my once watched fansubbed
DYRL and be able to watch it the way I like best. :)
>Subtitles are the only way to appreciate the artform. Im sorry!
>Go find a subtitled Godzilla film(Video Dakaiju has the entire
>series). The entire concept is taken much more seriously.
>Particularly in the Heisi series. Plus they're also shown at
>their original Aspect Ratios which is a plus.
I don't know if I want to see Godzilla taken seriously. :)
Really! I have always loved watching the dubs since I was a
little kid, and I love them the way they are. :)
One thing that I do kinda have to agree upon is that live action
is probably better subbed. While in anime they can make it so
you may never know that it was once in a different language, it
is much harder with live action to make it fit right, so
subtitles would be better.
I'll still take my anime dubbed anyday, though. :)
>But the songs were a vital instrument to the plot. Your not
>recognizing that.
>BTW there was a statement made somewhere that they had to get
>Reba West blatto to have her sing for Robotech.
Well actually I do realize that they are very important, but it
dosen't mean that I actually have to like them. :)
In Macross 7, I also realize that they are very impotrant to the
plot, but I dislike them so much that it makes me dislike the
show more. Not that I particularly like the plot in Macross 7...
>Beast Machines is a non-issue to me as I personally canceled it
>out of my mind.
Well, as much as I'd like to say why I love Beast Machines over
G1, it has already been done too much recently, not to mention
that we already have enough to say on the other issue. :)
>Gotcha beat. 16 years here. I was actually introduced to anime
>via Voltron which in itself is not the spitting example of
>dubbing at its best. Kinda too bad when it had some great voice
>talents, but the script was pretty weak.
Well, I *was* introduced to anime via Robotech and Voltron way
back when, but it never took hold until a few years ago when I
rented "Clash of the Bionoids" and "Robotech II: The Sentinels"
from Blockbuster (yeah,of all anime to sart on, Iit *had* to be
your *favorites*, eh? :) ). Since then I have been hooked on
Robotech and many other things anime. :)
>BTW anyone remember Sven's true Japanese name from the japanese
>series?
Uhhhhh...Bob? :)
>I went to the Robotech official site. Place disgusted me with
>its sheer egotism, taking credit for everything anime in
>America. That annoying intro sound didnt help either. Tony
>Oliver is NOT a good voice actor. He doesnt have that much of a
>range. Compare him to Mel Blanc! My favorite voice actor of all
>time has to be Alan Young though. I just love the Disney Uncle
>Scrooge character
It dosen't seem to me at all that they take credit for
everything anime in America (unless they changed it...). The
only thing mildly egotistical that I see on it is that they say
the "Anime Universe will never be the same", which is not bad
because if you want to be technical, the Anime Universe will
never be the same as it was a moment ago. Nothing ever truly
stays the same. :)
Tony Oliver may be a one character actor, but he is still not a
bad actor. Is Keifer Sutherland a bad actor just because he
can do that one voice? (Which reminds me, Armitage III is
another dub I really love. :) ). Many of todays voice actors
don't do many voices, like many of the older ones did. That is
not a bad thing, it spreads it out to a lot of clearly different
voices.
>There is a poor script, and then there is poor acting. Robotech
>had both. Compare some of the worst written episodes of The
>Transformers, at least the voice acting was still good.
And even in the worst episodes of Robotech (ummm..can't really
thing of a bad one offhand, but there are some that are not as
good as the rest, most notably in Masters.), it still has a good
script and acting.
>>Now, if you'll excuse me for a little while, I'm gonna go and
>>finally watch "X". Dubbed, of course. :)
>Enjoy!
Very cool (with a touch of Highlander in there. :) ). It had a
big hype, but didn't dissapoint like Ghost in the Shell, Star
Wars Episode 1 or the Super Fire Convoy toy. :)
In fact, the most interesting and different thing was the fact
that there was little to no background music for most of the
movie, even during fight scenes. Very cool, though. (Still
trying to place a few voices, though. :) )
_________________________________________________________________
__
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who
says "Ni".
-----------------------------------------------------------
Deszaras
too. Just to make it look less cluttered.
> >
> >Clash of The Bionoids is a major hackjob of DYRL as almost thiry minutes
are
> >cut from it. It has despicable dubbing to boot.
> >
> I agree that it dosen't have the greatest dub and that it could have been
> unedited, but I still found it to be more interesting then when I sae DYRL
> subtitled. Sure, I paid attention to the scenes that were cut out, but
> overall, it really didn't seem as interesting as when I watch it dubbed.
> (plus, theyt don't say "Protoculture" nearly as cool as in the dub. :) ).
If I
> remember correctlly, they finally brought out an unedited dub, I think
last
> year. I've got to get it sooner or later. :)
>
"They dont say Protoculture nearly as cool as the dub"?????
I just find that comment atrocious. I just love it at the end in the
original version when Bodolza is being killed and screams
"PROTOCULTURE!!!!!"
MUCH superior than ANYTHING in that dub.
There was an unedited dub as well actually. It was just titled Super
Dimensional Fortress Macross. Crappy boxart to go with the dubbing.
Im gonna stick with my widescreen subbed copy until an American DVD is
released.
> >
> >>
Subtitles are the only way to appreciate the artform. Im sorry!
Go find a subtitled Godzilla film(Video Dakaiju has the entire series). The
entire concept is taken much more seriously. Particularly in the Heisi
series. Plus they're also shown at their original Aspect Ratios which is a
plus.
>
> >> I would not say that Robotech was dubbed poorly. Sure, it is
> >> not the best, but it is not that bad, either. (Truthfully, I
> >> can't think of a real bad dub that I have seen. Closest is the
> >> early Funimation DBZ, but even that wasn't so bad as to make me
> >> want to watch it subtitled.) The only thing about Robotech's
> >> dub is the amount of times they say "oh". Besides that, I don't
> >> mind it a bit. (Except for Minmei's singing, but that is a
> >> mutual thing for Robotech and Macross. :) )
> >
> >How many times does Minmay need to say "Oh Rick!"?????? Its frickin
> >annoying. Its a hackjob. Nothing more, nothing less.
> >
> Well, I do agree that the "oh!"s and "oh Rick!"s were a littly annoying,
but
> there is not much else that is that bad (besides the songs. I am not that
fond
> of either Macross' or Robotech's songs. They all seem annoying,
especially
> Fire Bomber's songs... Although I am kinda exclusive with the songs I
like. :)
But the songs were a vital instrument to the plot. Your not recognizing
that.
BTW there was a statement made somewhere that they had to get Reba West
blatto to have her sing for Robotech.
> ) .
> >
> >>
> >> Sure, there are always exceptions for the rule, but more then
> >> not, I find that I would rather bear a pretty bad dub (which I
> >> truthfully haven't heard in a while...maybe when Funimation
> >> first took DBZ over, but that got better), then have to bear
> >> watching those annoying little subtitles. :)
> >>
> >> >I dont see why people dont want to watch the film like its
> >> > envisioned by the director!
> >>
> >> And I don't see why people don't like Beast Machines.
> >
> >That has no bearing on the subbed or dubbed argument whatsoever. Why did
you
> >bother to bring it up?
> >
> This is a Transformers newsgroup? :)
> Nah, it does bear a little significance....damn, I just re-read what I
said,
> and I didn't word it the way I thought I did. I wanted to say something
like
> "And I don't see why people don't watch Beast Machines as the next
Transformers
> show." (or something like that. It *did* have meaning, but I definitely
worded
> it wrong. :) )
Beast Machines is a non-issue to me as I personally canceled it out of my
mind.
>
Gotcha beat. 16 years here. I was actually introduced to anime via Voltron
which in itself is not the spitting example of dubbing at its best. Kinda
too bad when it had some great voice talents, but the script was pretty
weak.
BTW anyone remember Sven's true Japanese name from the japanese series?
>
I went to the Robotech official site. Place disgusted me with its sheer
egotism, taking credit for everything anime in America. That annoying intro
sound didnt help either. Tony Oliver is NOT a good voice actor. He doesnt
have that much of a range. Compare him to Mel Blanc!
My favorite voice actor of all time has to be Alan Young though. I just love
the Disney Uncle Scrooge character
>
> >So your saying there have been many leaps and technological advances in
the
> >art of voice acting since the 1980s?
> >Hmm............I wonder how Warner Bros and Disney pulled it off before
> >then?
> >
> No, no, no, what I am talking about is the way that anime is handled and
> brought over here and dubbed. Nowadays there are many more people in the
field
> who know what they are doing and are experienced at translating and
dubbing
> anime. What I am saying is that the quality of the translations and dubs
have
> only been increasing with more experienced people in the field. Dat's wat
I
> saying. :)
There is a poor script, and then there is poor acting. Robotech had both.
Compare some of the worst written episodes of The Transformers, at least the
voice acting was still good.
>
>
> Now, if you'll excuse me for a little while, I'm gonna go and finally
watch
> "X". Dubbed, of course. :)
>
>
Enjoy!
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
> Deszaras wrote:
>
> >"They dont say Protoculture nearly as cool as the dub"????? I
> >just find that comment atrocious. I just love it at the end in
> >the original version when Bodolza is being killed and
> >screams "PROTOCULTURE!!!!!"
> >MUCH superior than ANYTHING in that dub.
>
> But I just love the way the dub Zentraedi say "pro-to-cul-
> ture". It is a little drawn out and makes it sound funny. :)
They're not meant to sound funny though. Keep in mind in the japanese "true"
version they always spoke Zentradi, when they werent around the humans. Then
they were soon influenced more by the humans culture, and they began to
speak their language. Protoculture was already a myth in the Zentradi
history so they knew how to pronounce it well enough.
>
> >There was an unedited dub as well actually. It was just titled
> >Super Dimensional Fortress Macross. Crappy boxart to go with
> >the dubbing. Im gonna stick with my widescreen subbed copy
> >until an American DVD is released.
>
> Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. I've got to get that
> one sometime. Then I can give away my once watched fansubbed
> DYRL and be able to watch it the way I like best. :)
Sorry its out of print. Good thing too
>
> >Subtitles are the only way to appreciate the artform. Im sorry!
> >Go find a subtitled Godzilla film(Video Dakaiju has the entire
> >series). The entire concept is taken much more seriously.
> >Particularly in the Heisi series. Plus they're also shown at
> >their original Aspect Ratios which is a plus.
>
> I don't know if I want to see Godzilla taken seriously. :)
> Really! I have always loved watching the dubs since I was a
> little kid, and I love them the way they are. :)
> One thing that I do kinda have to agree upon is that live action
> is probably better subbed. While in anime they can make it so
> you may never know that it was once in a different language, it
> is much harder with live action to make it fit right, so
> subtitles would be better.
But the first film and the films from 84-96 were INTENDED to be taken
seriously as those films in particular have some form of social or economic
message to them that is completely ignored in the dubbed versions.
How is live action any better subbed than animation. The animators animate
the movements of the mouths to match that of the japanese voice actors, not
the dub. Animation suffers just as bad if not worse.
>
> I'll still take my anime dubbed anyday, though. :)
>
>
> >But the songs were a vital instrument to the plot. Your not
> >recognizing that.
> >BTW there was a statement made somewhere that they had to get
> >Reba West blatto to have her sing for Robotech.
>
> Well actually I do realize that they are very important, but it
> dosen't mean that I actually have to like them. :)
> In Macross 7, I also realize that they are very impotrant to the
> plot, but I dislike them so much that it makes me dislike the
> show more. Not that I particularly like the plot in Macross 7...
>
Im not gonna go on defending Macross 7 much more as I myself am not the
biggest fan of it. Even if it was included in Robotech(Which it never will
be) it probably couldnt damage the show anymore than its already screwed up.
>
>
> >Beast Machines is a non-issue to me as I personally canceled it
> >out of my mind.
>
> Well, as much as I'd like to say why I love Beast Machines over
> G1, it has already been done too much recently, not to mention
> that we already have enough to say on the other issue. :)
>
>
> >Gotcha beat. 16 years here. I was actually introduced to anime
> >via Voltron which in itself is not the spitting example of
> >dubbing at its best. Kinda too bad when it had some great voice
> >talents, but the script was pretty weak.
>
> Well, I *was* introduced to anime via Robotech and Voltron way
> back when, but it never took hold until a few years ago when I
> rented "Clash of the Bionoids" and "Robotech II: The Sentinels"
> from Blockbuster (yeah,of all anime to sart on, Iit *had* to be
> your *favorites*, eh? :) ). Since then I have been hooked on
> Robotech and many other things anime. :)
>
Wanna know why the new Robotech show wont fly? Just go back and look at how
terrible Sentinels was. Macek cant come up with an original idea.
The Robotech fanbase really isnt as large as people make it out to be. Most
of the former fans have moved onto other things, and the new show wont
attract new viewers is that its rumored to continue the original story. With
no old Robotech material available new viewers will be left out in the cold.
Its not as big of a phenomenom as Harmony Gold makes it out to be.
> >BTW anyone remember Sven's true Japanese name from the japanese
> >series?
>
> Uhhhhh...Bob? :)
>
>
>
> >I went to the Robotech official site. Place disgusted me with
> >its sheer egotism, taking credit for everything anime in
> >America. That annoying intro sound didnt help either. Tony
> >Oliver is NOT a good voice actor. He doesnt have that much of a
> >range. Compare him to Mel Blanc! My favorite voice actor of all
> >time has to be Alan Young though. I just love the Disney Uncle
> >Scrooge character
>
> It dosen't seem to me at all that they take credit for
> everything anime in America (unless they changed it...). The
> only thing mildly egotistical that I see on it is that they say
> the "Anime Universe will never be the same", which is not bad
> because if you want to be technical, the Anime Universe will
> never be the same as it was a moment ago. Nothing ever truly
> stays the same. :)
> Tony Oliver may be a one character actor, but he is still not a
> bad actor. Is Keifer Sutherland a bad actor just because he
> can do that one voice? (Which reminds me, Armitage III is
> another dub I really love. :) ). Many of todays voice actors
> don't do many voices, like many of the older ones did. That is
> not a bad thing, it spreads it out to a lot of clearly different
> voices.
1) Kiefer Sutherland is not a voice actor. He lacks his fathers range
nonetheless. He was hired for that one part and one part only. Most animated
films dont have the budget to hire different actors for all the different
roles.
Compare that to a live action film where actors generally cover one role and
have time to work on that single role.
Look at Mel Blanc, his main characters(Daffy, Bugs, Porky, etc) didnt sound
alike at all. To say animated films spread out the characters to more actors
is not true, as animated films still do not have the budgets to do so.
>
>
> >There is a poor script, and then there is poor acting. Robotech
> >had both. Compare some of the worst written episodes of The
> >Transformers, at least the voice acting was still good.
>
> And even in the worst episodes of Robotech (ummm..can't really
> thing of a bad one offhand, but there are some that are not as
> good as the rest, most notably in Masters.), it still has a good
> script and acting.
COUGH!!! Boobytrap, Force of Arms, etc. Every single episode lacked emotion.
Robowang who tastes mighty good
>remember correctlly, they finally brought out an unedited dub, I think last
>year. I've got to get it sooner or later. :)
>
>>
No, the uncut dub is a movie called "Super Dimensional Fortress: Macross." I
don't know how long it's been around, but I know it was much earlier than last
year, because Clash of the Bionoids is just a cut version of SDF:M. Same
actors, everything. Watch the two and you'll see. Actually, no, I wouldn't
recommend it. It's terrible, and with the bad translation, there is no
discernable plot. I like dubs better too, but this is just too much. It
actually sounds like it uses many of the actors that were used in the terrible
Headmasters dubs currently circulating around here. (Those are fun to watch
though!)
I DID hear about a plan to redub DYRL properly, but it apparently hasn't been
done
yet.
Robowang,
"Master of Transformers" (as quoted by the newspaper)
I love me.
Ramjet likes toast!
"You gotta admit, when you see anything with 'Robowang" in the subject line,
you definitely tend to think a little on the wild side!" -Victory Sabre
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron
>No, the uncut dub is a movie called "Super Dimensional Fortress: Macross." I
>don't know how long it's been around, but I know it was much earlier than
>last
>year, because Clash of the Bionoids is just a cut version of SDF:M. Same
>actors, everything. Watch the two and you'll see. Actually, no, I wouldn't
>recommend it. It's terrible, and with the bad translation, there is no
>discernable plot. I like dubs better too, but this is just too much. It
>actually sounds like it uses many of the actors that were used in the
>terrible
>Headmasters dubs currently circulating around here. (Those are fun to watch
>though!)
>
The reason why I found out about the uncut dub is because I saw it reviewed
last year (I think) in Animerica. I still am going to eventually get it. (I
do have my sources. :) ).
Truthfully, while not the absolute best dub, I still will take it over
subtitles. :)
And I find the Macross dub fun to watch, and that's all that REALLY matters to
me. :)
>I DID hear about a plan to redub DYRL properly, but it apparently hasn't been
>done
>yet.
I do hope they do another dub. What would be REALLY cool is if they had the
Robotech voice actors fro the dub. :)
___________________________________________________________________
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>They're not meant to sound funny though. Keep in mind in the
japanese "true"
>version they always spoke Zentradi, when they werent around the
humans. Then
>they were soon influenced more by the humans culture, and they
began to
>speak their language. Protoculture was already a myth in the
Zentradi
>history so they knew how to pronounce it well enough.
>
Well, thruthfully, all I was referring to how I love the way the
dub Zentraidi say "pro-to-cul-ture". It is just one of those
funny things that just stays in my head. :)
It may not be the absolute best dub, but I still enjoy it more
then the subtitles. And that's what really matters to me, that
*I* enjoy it. :)
>> Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. I've got to get that
>> one sometime. Then I can give away my once watched fansubbed
>> DYRL and be able to watch it the way I like best. :)
>
>Sorry its out of print. Good thing too
>
Heh. I WILL get one. I have my connections. :)
>>
.
>How is live action any better subbed than animation. The
animators animate
>the movements of the mouths to match that of the japanese voice
actors, not
>the dub. Animation suffers just as bad if not worse.
>
Animation is better dubbed because it is just that: animation.
It is much easier to it to match, plus, with live action, it is
fairly easy to tell if that is not the person's real voice. In
animation, because the characters are stylish and usually much
different then the voice actor, it is much easier to make the
voices fit in . Truthfully, I can only think of one occurrence
of where it dosen't fit, and that is in the Beast Wars
Transmetals game (I love the voice actors and characters, but
the lip sync is not that great, just like watching a live action
dub... )
>>
>
>Im not gonna go on defending Macross 7 much more as I myself am
not the
>biggest fan of it. Even if it was included in Robotech(Which it
never will
>be) it probably couldnt damage the show anymore than its
already screwed up.
>
I agree. Macross 7 couldn't be screwed up any more then it
is. :)
It would screw up Robotech, though. (That's why I am glad that
they won't include it. :) )
>Wanna know why the new Robotech show wont fly? Just go back and
look at how
>terrible Sentinels was. Macek cant come up with an original
idea.
>The Robotech fanbase really isnt as large as people make it out
to be. Most
>of the former fans have moved onto other things, and the new
show wont
>attract new viewers is that its rumored to continue the
original story. With
>no old Robotech material available new viewers will be left out
in the cold.
>Its not as big of a phenomenom as Harmony Gold makes it out to
be.
>
Wow. I really, really hope they continue the original story
(you may not like it, but it is one of my favorites.). That
would be sooooo cool. :)
Remember, though, by the time the new show is brought out, the
Robotech DVDs will most likely be out as well, so there will be
a way for newer viewers to find out what happened. :)
>1) Kiefer Sutherland is not a voice actor. He lacks his fathers
range
>nonetheless. He was hired for that one part and one part only.
Most animated
>films dont have the budget to hire different actors for all the
different
>roles.
>Compare that to a live action film where actors generally cover
one role and
>have time to work on that single role.
>
>Look at Mel Blanc, his main characters(Daffy, Bugs, Porky, etc)
didnt sound
>alike at all. To say animated films spread out the characters
to more actors
>is not true, as animated films still do not have the budgets to
do so.
>
The point that I am making is that many of the voice actors *do*
usually only have one main character (sure, they may do some
background characters, but many main characters are different
voice actors.) There are some that do have multiple characters
with multiple voices, but there are also many that only do one
(main) character.
>>
>>
>COUGH!!! Boobytrap, Force of Arms, etc. Every single episode
lacked emotion.
>
Well, there was definitely emotion in every episode, and I found
that evreything was portrayed nicely. The only way that there
can be no emotion is if all there was were monotone robotic
voices, and I hav enever seen any show, movie, etc. with that.
You may not like how they portrayed the emotion, but they
definitely have emotion. :)
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>I wouldnt refer to eBay as a connection.
Neither would I. I know people in my area and at school that
can get it for me. :)
>It was pretty cool when I worked at Blockbuster. I got first
dibs on all the
>out of print material when it went on sale. Thats how I
accumulated my
>massive TF video collection. I got almost a dozen copies of the
original FHE
>video release for Transformers The Movie.
>
Kinda wish I worked at Blockbuster, except that mine hasn't sold
any old cartoons or anime since they sold the third volume of
Macross II two years ago. In the box of the second volume. :)
>>
>
>You ignored my statement. The mouth movements ARE animated to
mimic the
>actors. Look at the dub AKIRA, it is notorious for bad lip sync.
>
Yes, the mouth movements are animated to mimic actors, but it is
also much easier to make a dub fit within the mouth movements of
animation and make it look and sound right then to make it look
and sound right in live action. In fact, unless it was really
good and I didn't pick up on it, I can usually spot a dub in
live action, while, unless you know about it beforehand or know
the style and stuff, it is much harder to pick up on an anime
dub. Hell, as a kid, I never knew Robotech, Voltron, or Speed
Racer were anime, I just thought they were cool shows. It
wasn't until I got interested in anime, read about it, got
background information and stuff did I know they were anime.
I can't really comment on the AKIRA lip sync, because I haven't
seen it since I bought it last year. (Heh. I haven't seen
Ghost in the Shell since I bought it when it first came out.
They are the kind of anime I watch when I get it, but then have
to be in the right mood to watch.)
While X had a great dub, I do admit there were a few times when
Kamui was yelling that the sync was off a little. It's not
their fault, it's one of those rare occurrences when the mouth
is animated strange or more realistically and is harder to look
right, but I can live with it, since it really dosen't happen
too much. :)
>Here is a pet peeve with Robotech. The Macross crashes on Earth
in the midst
>of the Third World War. Well it never was implied that the war
went nuclear,
>but the likelihood is that it did. Later in Force of Arms the
Zentraedi
>bombard Earth, literally mopping away 90% of the surface of the
planet.
>Later in a Mospeada episode New York is visited, and looking
fairly intact.
>Are you gonna tell me that New York, one of the worlds most
notable and
>largest cities, survived BOTH World War III and the Zentraedi
attack?
>I think not!!!
>
Well, in the Robotech universe, New York did survive. :)
Since it was never said that WWIII went nuclear, it probably
didn't. And New York was one of the 10% of the surface that
didn't get blasted away.
>>
>
>Assuming the DVDs ever are released. Robotech products and the
such have
>been getting canned lately. Look at the defunct N64 game!
>
Well, since ADV has the rights to it, it may be a while, but
they probably will come out.
>Umm.......Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, etc. are not background
characters. Look
>at Quackbusters, most of Blancs major characters appeared in
multiple scenes
>together.
>Lets not forget to mention that Frank Welker made up for 90% of
the early
>Decepticon forces. Most were frequent characters.
>
Yes, but I am talking about a lot of the voice actors doing
anime and cartoons today. Sure, there are those who do multiple
main characters, but there are also many who only do one. Being
a voice actor does NOT mean that they have to do multiple
characters in different voices. Some can and do, while others
don't. :)
>> >>
>
>A better term was displayed emotion VERY poorly!!
>If I just saw 95% of my entire race vaporized off of the map I
wouldnt have
>taken it nearly as well as "stern as a rock" Rick Hunter.
>
Well, just because YOU wouldn't, it dosen't mean that nobody
would. :)
Robotech is NOT Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada. It is a
new story that uses animation and elements from the three series
to make a new series for people to enjoy. It is not a "hackjob"
of any of the series because it is NOT any of the series. It is
a new and different continuity altogether. "Clash of the
Bionoids" is a hackjob, while Robotech isn't. The only way it
can be a "hackjob" is if it was supposed to be a direct dub of
the series, but it isn't. If it was only the Macross saga, it
would be a hackjob, but it is not *just* that one, it is all
three put together with a new story. :)
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
> "Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >They're not meant to sound funny though. Keep in mind in the
> japanese "true"
> >version they always spoke Zentradi, when they werent around the
> humans. Then
> >they were soon influenced more by the humans culture, and they
> began to
> >speak their language. Protoculture was already a myth in the
> Zentradi
> >history so they knew how to pronounce it well enough.
> >
> dub Zentraidi say "pro-to-cul-ture". It is just one of those
> funny things that just stays in my head. :)
> It may not be the absolute best dub, but I still enjoy it more
> then the subtitles. And that's what really matters to me, that
> *I* enjoy it. :)
>
> >> one sometime. Then I can give away my once watched fansubbed
> >> DYRL and be able to watch it the way I like best. :)
> >
> >Sorry its out of print. Good thing too
> >
> >>
I wouldnt refer to eBay as a connection.
It was pretty cool when I worked at Blockbuster. I got first dibs on all the
out of print material when it went on sale. Thats how I accumulated my
massive TF video collection. I got almost a dozen copies of the original FHE
video release for Transformers The Movie.
> .
> >How is live action any better subbed than animation. The
> animators animate
> >the movements of the mouths to match that of the japanese voice
> actors, not
> >the dub. Animation suffers just as bad if not worse.
> >
> Animation is better dubbed because it is just that: animation.
> It is much easier to it to match, plus, with live action, it is
> fairly easy to tell if that is not the person's real voice. In
> animation, because the characters are stylish and usually much
> different then the voice actor, it is much easier to make the
> voices fit in . Truthfully, I can only think of one occurrence
> of where it dosen't fit, and that is in the Beast Wars
> Transmetals game (I love the voice actors and characters, but
> the lip sync is not that great, just like watching a live action
> dub... )
You ignored my statement. The mouth movements ARE animated to mimic the
actors. Look at the dub AKIRA, it is notorious for bad lip sync.
> >>
> >
> >Im not gonna go on defending Macross 7 much more as I myself am
> not the
> >biggest fan of it. Even if it was included in Robotech(Which it
> never will
> >be) it probably couldnt damage the show anymore than its
> already screwed up.
> >
> I agree. Macross 7 couldn't be screwed up any more then it
> is. :)
> It would screw up Robotech, though. (That's why I am glad that
> they won't include it. :) )
Here is a pet peeve with Robotech. The Macross crashes on Earth in the midst
of the Third World War. Well it never was implied that the war went nuclear,
but the likelihood is that it did. Later in Force of Arms the Zentraedi
bombard Earth, literally mopping away 90% of the surface of the planet.
Later in a Mospeada episode New York is visited, and looking fairly intact.
Are you gonna tell me that New York, one of the worlds most notable and
largest cities, survived BOTH World War III and the Zentraedi attack?
I think not!!!
>
> >Wanna know why the new Robotech show wont fly? Just go back and
> look at how
> >terrible Sentinels was. Macek cant come up with an original
> idea.
> >The Robotech fanbase really isnt as large as people make it out
> to be. Most
> >of the former fans have moved onto other things, and the new
> show wont
> >attract new viewers is that its rumored to continue the
> original story. With
> >no old Robotech material available new viewers will be left out
> in the cold.
> >Its not as big of a phenomenom as Harmony Gold makes it out to
> be.
> >
> Wow. I really, really hope they continue the original story
> (you may not like it, but it is one of my favorites.). That
> would be sooooo cool. :)
> Remember, though, by the time the new show is brought out, the
> Robotech DVDs will most likely be out as well, so there will be
> a way for newer viewers to find out what happened. :)
>
Assuming the DVDs ever are released. Robotech products and the such have
been getting canned lately. Look at the defunct N64 game!
>
> >1) Kiefer Sutherland is not a voice actor. He lacks his fathers
> range
> >nonetheless. He was hired for that one part and one part only.
> Most animated
> >films dont have the budget to hire different actors for all the
> different
> >roles.
> >Compare that to a live action film where actors generally cover
> one role and
> >have time to work on that single role.
> >
> >Look at Mel Blanc, his main characters(Daffy, Bugs, Porky, etc)
> didnt sound
> >alike at all. To say animated films spread out the characters
> to more actors
> >is not true, as animated films still do not have the budgets to
> do so.
> >
> The point that I am making is that many of the voice actors *do*
> usually only have one main character (sure, they may do some
> background characters, but many main characters are different
> voice actors.) There are some that do have multiple characters
> with multiple voices, but there are also many that only do one
> (main) character.
> >>
Umm.......Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, etc. are not background characters. Look
at Quackbusters, most of Blancs major characters appeared in multiple scenes
together.
Lets not forget to mention that Frank Welker made up for 90% of the early
Decepticon forces. Most were frequent characters.
> >>
> >COUGH!!! Boobytrap, Force of Arms, etc. Every single episode
> lacked emotion.
> >
> Well, there was definitely emotion in every episode, and I found
> that evreything was portrayed nicely. The only way that there
> can be no emotion is if all there was were monotone robotic
> voices, and I hav enever seen any show, movie, etc. with that.
> You may not like how they portrayed the emotion, but they
> definitely have emotion. :)
Deszaras
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron <unicr...@aol.communist> wrote in message
news:20000726174440...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
But ITS NOT Robotech, its Macross.
Robowang who tastes mighty good
>Robotech voice actors fro the dub. :)
>
A dream come true...*sigh* I lvoe Robotech, mostly the novels, but the Macross
Saga of the show is great too.
Deszaras
> >>
> >
> >You ignored my statement. The mouth movements ARE animated to
> mimic the
> >actors. Look at the dub AKIRA, it is notorious for bad lip sync.
> >
> also much easier to make a dub fit within the mouth movements of
> animation and make it look and sound right then to make it look
> and sound right in live action. In fact, unless it was really
> good and I didn't pick up on it, I can usually spot a dub in
> live action, while, unless you know about it beforehand or know
> the style and stuff, it is much harder to pick up on an anime
> dub. Hell, as a kid, I never knew Robotech, Voltron, or Speed
> Racer were anime, I just thought they were cool shows. It
> wasn't until I got interested in anime, read about it, got
> background information and stuff did I know they were anime.
How is it any easier for an animated film. A high quality theatrical
animated film is generally animated a 24 frames per second. The same that a
live action film is shot at. Basically they move just as smoothly as a live
action film. Its JUST as obvious. They dont spend the time and money to go
back and re-animate the mouths for a dub.
>
> I can't really comment on the AKIRA lip sync, because I haven't
> seen it since I bought it last year. (Heh. I haven't seen
> Ghost in the Shell since I bought it when it first came out.
> They are the kind of anime I watch when I get it, but then have
> to be in the right mood to watch.)
> While X had a great dub, I do admit there were a few times when
> Kamui was yelling that the sync was off a little. It's not
> their fault, it's one of those rare occurrences when the mouth
> is animated strange or more realistically and is harder to look
> right, but I can live with it, since it really dosen't happen
> too much. :)
Happens all the time. Once again give Robotech a closer observation. Im
afraid that you are giving it a biased point of view.
>
> >Here is a pet peeve with Robotech. The Macross crashes on Earth
> in the midst
> >of the Third World War. Well it never was implied that the war
> went nuclear,
> >but the likelihood is that it did. Later in Force of Arms the
> Zentraedi
> >bombard Earth, literally mopping away 90% of the surface of the
> planet.
> >Later in a Mospeada episode New York is visited, and looking
> fairly intact.
> >Are you gonna tell me that New York, one of the worlds most
> notable and
> >largest cities, survived BOTH World War III and the Zentraedi
> attack?
> >I think not!!!
> >
> Well, in the Robotech universe, New York did survive. :)
> Since it was never said that WWIII went nuclear, it probably
> didn't. And New York was one of the 10% of the surface that
> didn't get blasted away.
> >>
It COULDNT have survived!!! First off lets examine this
1) The show was made during the Cold War. The threat of nuclear war was
quite probable. In the event of a major global war nuclear weapons WOULD
most likely be used. Especially considering the time period when the show
was made.New York would NOT survive, it holds a strategic importance, most
notably being the home of the United Nations!
2)New York being a major population center would have made it a DEFINITE
target during Bodolza's attack! There is not doubt about it. The city would
have been destroyed. Are you trying to tell me I should accept that the
Zentradi fleet leveled every other city but just skipped over New York? Well
thats a very inthorough bombardment. Maybe they skipped Tokyo, and Moscow,
as well?
>
> >
> >Assuming the DVDs ever are released. Robotech products and the
> such have
> >been getting canned lately. Look at the defunct N64 game!
> >
> Well, since ADV has the rights to it, it may be a while, but
> they probably will come out.
Or maybe Harmony Gold will fall financially flat on their ass so they can no
longer afford such a product.
We can only wish can we?
>
> >Umm.......Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, etc. are not background
> characters. Look
> >at Quackbusters, most of Blancs major characters appeared in
> multiple scenes
> >together.
> >Lets not forget to mention that Frank Welker made up for 90% of
> the early
> >Decepticon forces. Most were frequent characters.
> >
> Yes, but I am talking about a lot of the voice actors doing
> anime and cartoons today. Sure, there are those who do multiple
> main characters, but there are also many who only do one. Being
> a voice actor does NOT mean that they have to do multiple
> characters in different voices. Some can and do, while others
> don't. :)
> >> >>
Well if your only doing one character, you should at least be able to do
that one character well. Which no Robotech dubber could.
> >
> >A better term was displayed emotion VERY poorly!!
> >If I just saw 95% of my entire race vaporized off of the map I
> wouldnt have
> >taken it nearly as well as "stern as a rock" Rick Hunter.
> >
> Well, just because YOU wouldn't, it dosen't mean that nobody
> would. :)
Hmm.......I can think of quite a few people who would be a little upset at
the thought of potentia extinction!
>
> Robotech is NOT Macross, Southern Cross, or Mospeada. It is a
> new story that uses animation and elements from the three series
> to make a new series for people to enjoy. It is not a "hackjob"
> of any of the series because it is NOT any of the series. It is
> a new and different continuity altogether. "Clash of the
> Bionoids" is a hackjob, while Robotech isn't. The only way it
> can be a "hackjob" is if it was supposed to be a direct dub of
> the series, but it isn't. If it was only the Macross saga, it
> would be a hackjob, but it is not *just* that one, it is all
> three put together with a new story. :)
>
If there was such a phrase as "Legal Plagiarization". Well that would fit
Robotech.
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>
>How is it any easier for an animated film. A high quality
theatrical
>animated film is generally animated a 24 frames per second. The
same that a
>live action film is shot at. Basically they move just as
smoothly as a live
>action film. Its JUST as obvious. They dont spend the time and
money to go
>back and re-animate the mouths for a dub.
>
voices match the movements better in animation. (I do have to
say that I haven't seen many live action dubs besides the
Godzilla series, and they don't seem to care how it fits the
mouth movements, while the anime film dubs that I have seen have
been much more careful with the dubs and most movements fit.)
For other anime, such as TV series and OVAs, it is much easier
to make it look and sound correct. Some, like Tenchi Muyo,
Slayers, and El-Hazard are very good at making the voices fit.
(Truthfully, I don't think that I have ever noticed any off- lip
sync in these...they may have some, but they are not very
noticible, and most probably would be in the earlier ones.)
True, there are some that are not so good (...like Tekken,
maybe), but if they have a good dub director, like with Tenchi,
Slayers, Digimon, Pokemon, and Nadesico, among others, they can
make it so that the voices match well enough for most people not
to notice that may be wrong with it. In fact, the only problem
that I can think of that this SOMETIMES causes is when there is
pausing in the middle of a sentence so it can fit the mouth,
but, like I said, I don't even see that too much. :)
>>
>Happens all the time. Once again give Robotech a closer
observation. Im
>afraid that you are giving it a biased point of view.
>
Well, truthfully we are both giving biased arguments in these
posts. There is almost absolutely no way that we can be
unbiased here. You have already said that you like subs and
Macross better (and dislike Robotech), and I have already said
that I like dubs and Robotech better, and our responses to each
other mostly are explaining and defending why we like what we
like. Everybody that has a point to prove has a bias. So, yes,
I am giving it a biased point of view, but, then again, we both
are. :)
>
>It COULDNT have survived!!! First off lets examine this
>1) The show was made during the Cold War. The threat of nuclear
war was
>quite probable. In the event of a major global war nuclear
weapons WOULD
>most likely be used. Especially considering the time period
when the show
>was made.New York would NOT survive, it holds a strategic
importance, most
>notably being the home of the United Nations!
When the SDF1 fell, there was a caese fire in the war. To tell
you the truth, if the war had gone nuclear, I don't think that
there'd be many people left, especially in power positions to
stop the war, and also scientists to analyze and bring the SDF1
online, so, since ther is no specific evidence, I would guess it
didn't go nuclear. :)
>2)New York being a major population center would have made it a
DEFINITE
>target during Bodolza's attack! There is not doubt about it.
The city would
>have been destroyed. Are you trying to tell me I should accept
that the
>Zentradi fleet leveled every other city but just skipped over
New York? Well
>thats a very inthorough bombardment. Maybe they skipped Tokyo,
and Moscow,
>as well?
>
Maybe they did. There was evidence that the Zentraedi leveled
about 90% of the surface, but there was never any specific
evidence that any of these cities were even touched. :)
>
>Or maybe Harmony Gold will fall financially flat on their ass
so they can no
>longer afford such a product.
Or that Takara will go under and all things Transformers would
revert to Hasbro.
>We can only wish can we?
While I doubt either of our wishes will happen, yes, we CAN
still wish. :)
>
>Well if your only doing one character, you should at least be
able to do
>that one character well. Which no Robotech dubber could.
>
I think that they could do it very well. Heh, one of the things
I love to do when watching anime and other cartoons is to place
where I've heard the voices before. Sterling as Liquid Snake,
Fokker as Cobra, Lisa doing various "bad girls", and Minmei
makes one of the best ditzes in animation (Pai, Mihoshi,
etc.) :)
>Hmm.......I can think of quite a few people who would be a
little upset at
>the thought of potentia extinction!
>
Yes, but there will always be people who won't. :)
>
>
>If there was such a phrase as "Legal Plagiarization". Well that
would fit
>Robotech.
>
Hmmm. Yes, that does kinda fit, for the original TV series,
that is (and the movie, I guess). :)
Other Robotech things, like the Sentinels TV series, comic
books, and books, wouldn't be part of that, though. :)
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
But you must understand. I was ONCE a Robotech fan that thought like you
did. Your looking at it from a novelty point of view. Like how many look at
the G1 TF series. G1 had weaker and more inconsistent storytelling, while BW
was much better written. G1 sure had its gems, but overall BW was just more
consistent. But some people are so brainwashed by their biased that they
cannot view it. The majority of people who hate Beast Wars has never even
seen it.
There was nothing innovative about Robotech, its just a hackjob!
> >
> >It COULDNT have survived!!! First off lets examine this
> >1) The show was made during the Cold War. The threat of nuclear
> war was
> >quite probable. In the event of a major global war nuclear
> weapons WOULD
> >most likely be used. Especially considering the time period
> when the show
> >was made.New York would NOT survive, it holds a strategic
> importance, most
> >notably being the home of the United Nations!
>
> When the SDF1 fell, there was a caese fire in the war. To tell
> you the truth, if the war had gone nuclear, I don't think that
> there'd be many people left, especially in power positions to
> stop the war, and also scientists to analyze and bring the SDF1
> online, so, since ther is no specific evidence, I would guess it
> didn't go nuclear. :)
Actually in the event of a Nuclear War the population would be SOL, but the
general government would pretty much still be intact. Thats the number one
rule in this country. We must maintain a working government in any crisis.
Particularly the President who is valued more than any other person on this
planet.
Anyhow even if it didnt go nuclear, im sure there were quite a few cities
leveled by conventional weaponry.
>
> >2)New York being a major population center would have made it a
> DEFINITE
> >target during Bodolza's attack! There is not doubt about it.
> The city would
> >have been destroyed. Are you trying to tell me I should accept
> that the
> >Zentradi fleet leveled every other city but just skipped over
> New York? Well
> >thats a very inthorough bombardment. Maybe they skipped Tokyo,
> and Moscow,
> >as well?
> >
> Maybe they did. There was evidence that the Zentraedi leveled
> about 90% of the surface, but there was never any specific
> evidence that any of these cities were even touched. :)
Well several cities were refered to as New Portland, and New Detroit.
Obviously replacing the old cities. I just find it ridiculous that New York
was missed!
> >
> >Or maybe Harmony Gold will fall financially flat on their ass
> so they can no
> >longer afford such a product.
>
> Or that Takara will go under and all things Transformers would
> revert to Hasbro.
Revert to Hasbro??? Until recent years its always been a joint Takara/Hasbro
thing. I dont understand where you say reverting to Hasbro. Hasbro has been
putting out crap IMO.(Albeit the first BW Optimus Primal is pretty cool)
>
> >We can only wish can we?
>
> While I doubt either of our wishes will happen, yes, we CAN
> still wish. :)
>
> >
> >Well if your only doing one character, you should at least be
> able to do
> >that one character well. Which no Robotech dubber could.
> >
> I think that they could do it very well. Heh, one of the things
> I love to do when watching anime and other cartoons is to place
> where I've heard the voices before. Sterling as Liquid Snake,
> Fokker as Cobra, Lisa doing various "bad girls", and Minmei
> makes one of the best ditzes in animation (Pai, Mihoshi,
> etc.) :)
>
Well you can do that with talented voice actors as well. Besides isnt the
goal of a voice actor to make ever character sound different?
:)
>
> >Hmm.......I can think of quite a few people who would be a
> little upset at
> >the thought of potentia extinction!
> >
> Yes, but there will always be people who won't. :)
> >
> >
> >If there was such a phrase as "Legal Plagiarization". Well that
> would fit
> >Robotech.
> >
> Hmmm. Yes, that does kinda fit, for the original TV series,
> that is (and the movie, I guess). :)
> Other Robotech things, like the Sentinels TV series, comic
> books, and books, wouldn't be part of that, though. :)
And look what happened to Sentinels and the comic. One was canceled before
it was even aired, and the comic constantly jumps publishers.
DarkPhoenix
>Obviously replacing the old cities. I just find it ridiculous that New York
>was missed!
In a variation of a quote from Southpark ...
What were they gonna name it? New New York? I mean, it already HAS 'new' in the
name!
------------------
Darkphoenix
"It is a fine line that exists between genius and insanity ... "
I am that line.
"Cruelity is, perhaps, the most enjoyable sin."
- Jetstorm (Ultra's Tech Spec)
Survivor of a.t.t "Hell-Flame Wars" '
Deszaras
DarkPhoenix <neodark...@aol.communist> wrote in message
news:20000728162436...@ng-fh1.aol.com...
> >Well several cities were refered to as New Portland, and New Detroit.
> >Obviously replacing the old cities. I just find it ridiculous that New
York
> >was missed!
>
>
> What were they gonna name it? New New York? I mean, it already HAS 'new'
in the
> name!
Even if it were such the case why does the city look identical to what it
was at the end of the 20th century. Plain and simple to explain.
Macross and Mospeada were NEVER EVER meant to co-exist!
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>
>But you must understand. I was ONCE a Robotech fan that thought
like you
>did. Your looking at it from a novelty point of view. Like how
many look at
>the G1 TF series. G1 had weaker and more inconsistent
storytelling, while BW
>was much better written. G1 sure had its gems, but overall BW
was just more
>consistent. But some people are so brainwashed by their biased
that they
>cannot view it. The majority of people who hate Beast Wars has
never even
>seen it.
But the point is that we are still biased. :)
Truthfully, while your G1 parralel does partially ring true (I
am willing to let some things slide, like how the voices
SOMETIMES don't match the mouths, or that, while the songs are
not my type, they still factor into the plot), I do still like
Robotech for it's merits. I very much enjoy it, especially the
story and almost all the offsprings of it (The only thing that I
didn't like is pretty much the last half of the "End of the
Circle" book. I especially wanted them to kick Haydon's
ass . "What does GOD need with a...cybernetic planet?". Heh.
Star Trek V ruled. :) )
>There was nothing innovative about Robotech, its just a hackjob!
>
I don't know about innovative, considering it did use three
already established series, but the different thing was putting
the three of them together into one coherent and believable
story (Talk to people who don't know of it's origins :) ) (And
yes, like G1 and many other shows of that time, it had a FEW
continuity issues, but those stemmed from fitting the three
stories together to make a new story, which I do enjoy much
better then the originals. :) )
>Actually in the event of a Nuclear War the population would be
SOL, but the
>general government would pretty much still be intact. Thats the
number one
>rule in this country. We must maintain a working government in
any crisis.
Hmm.. maybe they went into mine shafts and ... nah. Too Dr.
Strangelove. :)
>Particularly the President who is valued more than any other
person on this
>planet.
While I am patriotic and very much like this statement, I am
truthfully not sure if it is true. But it still sounds cool. :)
>Anyhow even if it didnt go nuclear, im sure there were quite a
few cities
>leveled by conventional weaponry.
>
Hmmm. Considering the placement of Portland and Detroit, which
it is implied were destroyed and replaced, maybe World War III
was a war with...CANADA!
Nah. I don't think hockey sticks and beer could level a city,
eh? :)
(Sorry, resident Canadians, it's just that I've seen South Park
the Movie a few too many times. That movie has warped my
fragile little mind! :) )
>Well several cities were refered to as New Portland, and New
Detroit.
>Obviously replacing the old cities. I just find it ridiculous
that New York
>was missed!
Maybe they DIDN'T replace old cities. Did New York replace
York? Or did New England replace England? :)
Nah, they just didn't destroy New York in Robotech. It is as
simple as that. :)
>> Or that Takara will go under and all things Transformers would
>> revert to Hasbro.
>
>Revert to Hasbro??? Until recent years its always been a joint
Takara/Hasbro
>thing. I dont understand where you say reverting to Hasbro.
Hasbro has been
>putting out crap IMO.(Albeit the first BW Optimus Primal is
pretty cool)
>
What I meant was that all control goes to Hasbro instead of the
joint deal. :)
You may not like their recent toys, but I, for one, think they
are much better then anything G1 ever put out, (Excluding
Jetfire. But Ultra Jetstorm is a very big contender for king of
the skies. :) ). I like the Takara only toys because they are
different and give me more to get, but I still like the Hasbro
toys much better. The Car Robots toys are cool, but to me they
just aren't as cool or playable as the Beast Machine toys.
Because there was a very large hype, I was VERY disappionted
when I finally got Super Fire Convoy. The normal Fire Convoy
mode is very cool, but, to me, the other modes are pretty
unplayable and boring.
I really, really hope we don't get Car Robots for the next
Transformers show...
>>
>Well you can do that with talented voice actors as well.
Besides isnt the
>goal of a voice actor to make ever character sound different?
>:)
>
Heh. If that is the case, then there must be very few good
voice actors.(besides maybe Frank Welker and Mel Blank. :) ) I
mean, if EVERY character they played had a different voice, and
they play many different voices in their careers, then they must
be able to do many, many different voices. :)
>And look what happened to Sentinels and the comic. One was
canceled before
>it was even aired, and the comic constantly jumps publishers.
>
The only problem with the comics that I have is that almost all
of the "last" issues (like Book 4 of Sentinels, the last few
Invid War Aftermath, the the later Return to Macross, and other
later issues) are extremely hard to find in my area (much like
the last ten issues of Transformers and almost the entire G2
comic.
_________________________________________________________________
__
Formerly known as Unicron - a.k.a. SuperDave. Now known as
SuperDave - a.k.a. Unicron. Soon to be known as the Unicron who
says "Ni".
BW Sidecutter
>thing. I dont understand where you say reverting to Hasbro. Hasbro has been
>putting out crap IMO.(Albeit the first BW Optimus Primal is pretty cool)
Ehhh...you DO realize Taara also did the engineering and production of the
molds for those too, right? It was merely than Kenner got to do the design
drawings and send them to Takara for production stages.
BW Sidecutter Http://connect.to/DSNPort91881
Winner of TF Legion's Char Creation Contest
Ult-Storm - Best TF of the 2nd 1/2 of 2K
Get paid just to be logged online.
http://www.DesktopDollars.com/default.asp?id=Sidecutter
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
Actually Congress had its own undergroud bunker. Seriously:) Its no longer
ever gonna be used as they have somewhere else to go. But if your ever in
Washington I think you can take tours of the old bunkers.
>
> >Particularly the President who is valued more than any other
> person on this
> >planet.
>
> While I am patriotic and very much like this statement, I am
> truthfully not sure if it is true. But it still sounds cool. :)
>
Yes it is true. When it comes to the Presidents safety his Joint Chiefs,
Secret Service, and Cabinet, can easily overrule him. He is the big cheese
when it comes to this nation. His survival is crucial, as well as keeping a
good portion of Congress alive as well.
Im sure other Nations have such protocols as well.
> >Anyhow even if it didnt go nuclear, im sure there were quite a
> few cities
> >leveled by conventional weaponry.
> >
> Hmmm. Considering the placement of Portland and Detroit, which
> it is implied were destroyed and replaced, maybe World War III
> was a war with...CANADA!
> Nah. I don't think hockey sticks and beer could level a city,
> eh? :)
> (Sorry, resident Canadians, it's just that I've seen South Park
> the Movie a few too many times. That movie has warped my
> fragile little mind! :) )
South Park sucks IMO! I found it the most unfunny movie ever.
Now Canadian Bacon is just much better if you wanna see a comedy about going
to war with Canada. You cant beat Alan Alda and Rip Torn!
>
> >Well several cities were refered to as New Portland, and New
> Detroit.
> >Obviously replacing the old cities. I just find it ridiculous
> that New York
> >was missed!
>
> Maybe they DIDN'T replace old cities. Did New York replace
> York? Or did New England replace England? :)
> Nah, they just didn't destroy New York in Robotech. It is as
> simple as that. :)
Its 100% probability that they did replace the old cities. Why would Oregon
need two Portlands?
>
> >> Or that Takara will go under and all things Transformers would
> >> revert to Hasbro.
> >
> >Revert to Hasbro??? Until recent years its always been a joint
> Takara/Hasbro
> >thing. I dont understand where you say reverting to Hasbro.
> Hasbro has been
> >putting out crap IMO.(Albeit the first BW Optimus Primal is
> pretty cool)
> >
> What I meant was that all control goes to Hasbro instead of the
> joint deal. :)
> You may not like their recent toys, but I, for one, think they
> are much better then anything G1 ever put out, (Excluding
> Jetfire. But Ultra Jetstorm is a very big contender for king of
> the skies. :) ). I like the Takara only toys because they are
> different and give me more to get, but I still like the Hasbro
> toys much better. The Car Robots toys are cool, but to me they
> just aren't as cool or playable as the Beast Machine toys.
> Because there was a very large hype, I was VERY disappionted
> when I finally got Super Fire Convoy. The normal Fire Convoy
> mode is very cool, but, to me, the other modes are pretty
> unplayable and boring.
> I really, really hope we don't get Car Robots for the next
> Transformers show...
> >>
Well considering I dont play with my toys anyhow. So I went to get some
expert advice, my nephew. He and his buddies MUCH prefer playing with my old
TFs, than the new Beast TFs. They think they arent any good. I have asked
ALOT of other kids this too. Now this doesnt mean every kid likes the
originals more, its just ALOT of them do. I find MUCH more little kids who
prefer playing with the old TFs than the new BW TFs.
>
> >Well you can do that with talented voice actors as well.
> Besides isnt the
> >goal of a voice actor to make ever character sound different?
> >:)
> >
> Heh. If that is the case, then there must be very few good
> voice actors.(besides maybe Frank Welker and Mel Blank. :) ) I
> mean, if EVERY character they played had a different voice, and
> they play many different voices in their careers, then they must
> be able to do many, many different voices. :)
Please spell Mel BlanC correctly!! At least every character in one show
should have a different voice, for particular reasons.(Though Rumble and
Fenzy having similar voices can easily be explained). Its just TFs had
something Robotech didnt, real voice talent.
>
> >And look what happened to Sentinels and the comic. One was
> canceled before
> >it was even aired, and the comic constantly jumps publishers.
> >
> The only problem with the comics that I have is that almost all
> of the "last" issues (like Book 4 of Sentinels, the last few
> Invid War Aftermath, the the later Return to Macross, and other
> later issues) are extremely hard to find in my area (much like
> the last ten issues of Transformers and almost the entire G2
> comic.
Well if your to take the books into consideration one of the novels says
North America was a wasteland after the first two Robotech Wars. ALL major
cities were destroyed. Now saying major city would definitely include New
York, it being the most populous city in the United States. Also if you
consider the books canon, just look at the Invid Invasion Sourcebook.
Im sorry, in Robotech, New York City SHOULD NOT be standing. Which brings up
one of the fatal continuity flaws of the series.
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>>
>> Hmm.. maybe they went into mine shafts and ... nah. Too Dr.
>> Strangelove. :)
>
>Actually Congress had its own undergroud bunker. Seriously:)
Its no longer
>ever gonna be used as they have somewhere else to go. But if
your ever in
>Washington I think you can take tours of the old bunkers.
>
to go to Washington. :)
>>
>
>Yes it is true. When it comes to the Presidents safety his
Joint Chiefs,
>Secret Service, and Cabinet, can easily overrule him. He is the
big cheese
>when it comes to this nation. His survival is crucial, as well
as keeping a
>good portion of Congress alive as well.
>Im sure other Nations have such protocols as well.
>
this planet where the US is concerned, but I am sure that there
are other people in other countries that disagree with it. :)
>
>
>South Park sucks IMO! I found it the most unfunny movie ever.
>Now Canadian Bacon is just much better if you wanna see a
comedy about going
>to war with Canada. You cant beat Alan Alda and Rip Torn!
>
Robotech, you can insult Transformers, you can insult me (not
that you did any or all of these, but..), but you can NOT insult
South Park! (Heh. Only kidding. Nothing really fazes me too
much. I just usually like to defend what I like and say. :) )
Personally, I found the South Park movie not only to be the
absolute best movie of last summer, but also to be one of the
funniest ever as well (and the songs, oh the songs. The ones
that were in the movie make GREAT driving music. :) ), and the
show is the only show right now besides Beast Machines and
Cardcaptors that I usually watch on TV. But I do know that due
to South Parks content, it will not appeal to everyone, but I
love it. :)
>
>
>Its 100% probability that they did replace the old cities. Why
would Oregon
>need two Portlands?
>
Well, it COULD end up being Portland, Maine. :)
(Sorry, the first thing I think of when I hear Portland is in
Maine. I usually have to think before I remember that Oregon
also has a Portland. As well as the Ark. :) )
>Well considering I dont play with my toys anyhow. So I went to
get some
>expert advice, my nephew. He and his buddies MUCH prefer
playing with my old
>TFs, than the new Beast TFs. They think they arent any good. I
have asked
>ALOT of other kids this too. Now this doesnt mean every kid
likes the
>originals more, its just ALOT of them do. I find MUCH more
little kids who
>prefer playing with the old TFs than the new BW TFs.
>
Well, as I don't know that many kids, but I have seen a lot of
them begging for them and also buying them at toy stores, so I
would guess that threre are a lot who do. (And it dosen't hurt
that there is a cool show to go with them. :) )
Truthfully, if I was a kid right now and given a bunch of both
G1 and BW/BM toys, I would probably take the BW/BM ones,
especially if I wanted them to play with.
And truthfully, I "tinker" with my Transformers. Nah... I
actually play with them. One of the things that I do when
watching a movie or anime, especially if I had seen it before,
is to mostly listen to it while having "fights" or just
transforming various members of my Transformers collection. :)
>
>
>Please spell Mel BlanC correctly!!
Whoops! Sorry! I'll try to spell Mel Blank correctly next
time. ....D'oh! :)
(Sorry, yet another of my famous bad jokes. :) )
>At least every character in one showshould have a different
voice, for particular >reasons.(Though Rumble and Fenzy having
similar voices can easily be explained).
All things being equal, I would tend to agree with you (except
that it dosen't really matter for background or one-liner
characters to have re-used voices), but things are not equal, as
Robotech has a different approach then any cartoon that I can
think of (save for Transformers season 1 and 2 to season 3), it
separates the "seasons" into different time periods. Hearing a
voice from the Macross saga in Masters and later in New
Generation dosen't bother me at all because I know that they are
different characters in different time periods with different
stories then the other characters the voice actor had.
Now, if it all took place in the same time and the same voice
actor used the same voice for more then one main character, then
it would bother me, but since it isn't, I like it the way it
is. :)
>Its just TFs had something Robotech didnt, real voice talent.
>
Well, they both had real voice talent. If they didn't, then
what am I hearing? Or is it my imagination that I hear
voices? :)
(And yet ANOTHER of my bad jokes. :) )
Seriously, I like both sets of voice actors. Actually, my most
favorite sets of voice actors are in: Transformers the Movie,
Robotech, Beast Wars/Machines, Tenchi Muyo, Nadesico, Slayers,
and El-Hazard. It is easy to recognize voices from any ones of
these in other anime and shows, and since these are my
favorites, these are my "reference shows". When I see a new
anime or show, I can usually recognize voices, especially of the
main characters, and while watching, I try to place in my mind
where I have heard the voice before and who they played.
Recently, I saw Pokemon the movie 2000, and recognozed Ash's
mom's voice, and finally placed it as Amelia from Slayers (after
that, I kept waiting for her to say "...but Miss Lina.." :) ).
It is actually a fun little game. :)
>Well if your to take the books into consideration one of the
novels says
>North America was a wasteland after the first two Robotech
Wars. ALL major
>cities were destroyed. Now saying major city would definitely
include New
>York, it being the most populous city in the United States.
Also if you
>consider the books canon, just look at the Invid Invasion
Sourcebook.
>Im sorry, in Robotech, New York City SHOULD NOT be standing.
Which brings up
>one of the fatal continuity flaws of the series.
>
Well truthfully, I haven't read any of the show adaptions. I
read books, but if I have another way of getting the story, like
with the Robotech show, then I usually don't bother with the
book. (books are like subtitled anime to me. If there is an
alternative to reading books or watching subs, then I most
probably won't. :) ):)
That said, I still wouldn't say that New York is a FATAL
continuity flaw of the series, it just isn't explained in the
story, so it leaves room for interpretations. (Much like in
Beast Machines how Megatron created the virus and how Rattrap
became the tinkerer.). It could have been explained better, but
I would definitely not call it a fatal flaw.
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
> "Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hmm.. maybe they went into mine shafts and ... nah. Too Dr.
> >> Strangelove. :)
> >
> >Actually Congress had its own undergroud bunker. Seriously:)
> Its no longer
> >ever gonna be used as they have somewhere else to go. But if
> your ever in
> >Washington I think you can take tours of the old bunkers.
> >
> Cool. Now I just have to remember to check when I finally get
> to go to Washington. :)
> >>
> >
> >Yes it is true. When it comes to the Presidents safety his
> Joint Chiefs,
> >Secret Service, and Cabinet, can easily overrule him. He is the
> big cheese
> >when it comes to this nation. His survival is crucial, as well
> as keeping a
> >good portion of Congress alive as well.
> >Im sure other Nations have such protocols as well.
> >
> Well, the President may be valued more than any other person on
> this planet where the US is concerned, but I am sure that there
> are other people in other countries that disagree with it. :)
> >
Actually as far as NATO is concerned the US President probably is the most
valuable man on the planet. Basically I would keep the Presidents of
America, and France, as well as the Prime Ministers of Britain, and Japan.
Take them and store them in some bunker in the Antarctic somewhere. Let the
missiles fly and rebuild all over again. Finally we can rid ourselves of
those pesky communists:)
> >
> >South Park sucks IMO! I found it the most unfunny movie ever.
> >Now Canadian Bacon is just much better if you wanna see a
> comedy about going
> >to war with Canada. You cant beat Alan Alda and Rip Torn!
> >
> Now this is where you crossed the line. You can insult
> Robotech, you can insult Transformers, you can insult me (not
> that you did any or all of these, but..), but you can NOT insult
> South Park! (Heh. Only kidding. Nothing really fazes me too
> much. I just usually like to defend what I like and say. :) )
>
> Personally, I found the South Park movie not only to be the
> absolute best movie of last summer, but also to be one of the
> funniest ever as well (and the songs, oh the songs. The ones
> that were in the movie make GREAT driving music. :) ), and the
> show is the only show right now besides Beast Machines and
> Cardcaptors that I usually watch on TV. But I do know that due
> to South Parks content, it will not appeal to everyone, but I
> love it. :)
> >
Unfortunately you may be right. Most of the movies last summer were crap.
Now those Toycom Valkyries will blow everything away(When they're finally
released). Hopefully Big West and HG will come to an agreement, so we can
see that Classic Valkyrie line Toycom has planned as well.
The thing is EVERY actor who has worked on Robotech can only do one voice.
Thats why they are so easily recognizable. Not because they are any good,
its because they use the same voice for every damned character they do.
Lets use Frank Welker as an example of someone with multiple talents.
His Satanic voice: Used frequently for Dr. Claw, Darkseid, Soundwave, and
Malebolgia.
His raspy voice: Megatron, Galvatron, several characters in WB cartoons as
well as the new Johnny Quest.
His punk/kid voice: Rumble, Frenzy, Wheelie
Various animal noises: Santa's Little Helper, Reindeer, Gremlins, etc.
THATS range!
> >Well if your to take the books into consideration one of the
> novels says
> >North America was a wasteland after the first two Robotech
> Wars. ALL major
> >cities were destroyed. Now saying major city would definitely
> include New
> >York, it being the most populous city in the United States.
> Also if you
> >consider the books canon, just look at the Invid Invasion
> Sourcebook.
> >Im sorry, in Robotech, New York City SHOULD NOT be standing.
> Which brings up
> >one of the fatal continuity flaws of the series.
> >
> Well truthfully, I haven't read any of the show adaptions. I
> read books, but if I have another way of getting the story, like
> with the Robotech show, then I usually don't bother with the
> book. (books are like subtitled anime to me. If there is an
> alternative to reading books or watching subs, then I most
> probably won't. :) ):)
Omigod! I will pretend you never said that! You would rather watch a
halfassed adaption of a book, than read the book itself?
The Amityville Horror comes to mind. Terrific book, shitty film. BTW the
story IS NOT true, contrary to what people say. It has since been verified
as a hoax.
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>Actually as far as NATO is concerned the US President probably
>is the most valuable man on the planet. Basically I would keep
>the Presidents of America, and France, as well as the Prime
>Ministers of Britain, and Japan. Take them and store them in
>some bunker in the Antarctic somewhere. Let the missiles fly
>and rebuild all over again. Finally we can rid ourselves of
>those pesky communists:)
Hopefully we will find a less destructive way (for our side, at
least) to rid ourselves from the damn commies. Blow them all to
smitherines while keeping our side untouched. Now THAT'S the
way to go. Maybe make a cloaking device for missiles or
something. :)
>Now those Toycom Valkyries will blow everything away(When
>they're finally released). Hopefully Big West and HG will come
>to an agreement, so we can see that Classic Valkyrie line
>Toycom has planned as well.
Heh. Maybe we wil get a classic Veritech line. :) (Okay, okay,
you can stop throwing things at me now. :) )
But considering the quality and coolness of the Toycom Valks,
maybe HG could let them do mecha from the other Robotech series,
like the Hovertanks, Alphas, Betas, and Cyclones. That would
also be cool. :)
>The thing is EVERY actor who has worked on Robotech can only do
>one voice. Thats why they are so easily recognizable. Not
>because they are any good, its because they use the same voice
>for every damned character they do. Lets use Frank Welker as an
>example of someone with multiple talents. His Satanic voice:
>Used frequently for Dr. Claw, Darkseid, Soundwave, and
>Malebolgia.
>His raspy voice: Megatron, Galvatron, several characters in WB
>cartoons as well as the new Johnny Quest.
>His punk/kid voice: Rumble, Frenzy, Wheelie
>Various animal noises: Santa's Little Helper, Reindeer,
>Gremlins, etc.
>THATS range!
It's also a little unfair for comparison. With the amount of
voice actors, there are very few who can do what Frank Welker
and Mel Blanc can do. They are just extremely gifted at it.
>Omigod! I will pretend you never said that! You would rather
>watch a halfassed adaption of a book, than read the book
>itself? The Amityville Horror comes to mind. Terrific book,
>shitty film. BTW the story IS NOT true, contrary to what people
>say. It has since been verified as a hoax.
Well, I do know what you mean. The Jurassic Park book was
better then the movie (but the movie was still very cool)
(Although both Lost Worlds weren't that great. :) ), but I am
just not the type that reads too much. I just either don't have
the time (heh. Yet I can read just about any comic book thrown
at me...), or the patience (yet another lame excuse. :) ). I
just prefer not reading books, as I prefer actually seeing what
is happening and leaving less to my already overactive
imagination. :)
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
> "Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Actually as far as NATO is concerned the US President probably
> >is the most valuable man on the planet. Basically I would keep
> >the Presidents of America, and France, as well as the Prime
> >Ministers of Britain, and Japan. Take them and store them in
> >some bunker in the Antarctic somewhere. Let the missiles fly
> >and rebuild all over again. Finally we can rid ourselves of
> >those pesky communists:)
>
> least) to rid ourselves from the damn commies. Blow them all to
> smitherines while keeping our side untouched. Now THAT'S the
> way to go. Maybe make a cloaking device for missiles or
> something. :)
Well mozy on over to the Usenet group alt.war.nuclear and talk to some of
the bunker dwellers. Its good for a laugh:)
>
> >Now those Toycom Valkyries will blow everything away(When
> >they're finally released). Hopefully Big West and HG will come
> >to an agreement, so we can see that Classic Valkyrie line
> >Toycom has planned as well.
>
> Heh. Maybe we wil get a classic Veritech line. :) (Okay, okay,
> you can stop throwing things at me now. :) )
> But considering the quality and coolness of the Toycom Valks,
> maybe HG could let them do mecha from the other Robotech series,
> like the Hovertanks, Alphas, Betas, and Cyclones. That would
> also be cool. :)
>
As I said Toycom is planning a classic Valkyrie line from DYRL. Which would
feature the Strike Valkyries, VE-1 Elintseeker, and VT-1 Super Ostrich.
Hell, you wanna know something. If the only way I can get my hands on any of
these new toys is if they had the Robotech name on them, well I would still
buy them. Assuming the toy itself is left unchanged. Im not gonna screw
Toycom over Harmony Golds greediness!
Hell maybe this legal argument between Big West and HG can work out in the
favor of both the Macross fans and Robotech fans. I would love new Mospeada
toys to scale with Toycoms Valkyries.
I already have a REALLY DETAILED 1/48 scale Legioss I built that looks
beautiful. I'll send a pic sometime.
>
> >The thing is EVERY actor who has worked on Robotech can only do
> >one voice. Thats why they are so easily recognizable. Not
> >because they are any good, its because they use the same voice
> >for every damned character they do. Lets use Frank Welker as an
> >example of someone with multiple talents. His Satanic voice:
> >Used frequently for Dr. Claw, Darkseid, Soundwave, and
> >Malebolgia.
> >His raspy voice: Megatron, Galvatron, several characters in WB
> >cartoons as well as the new Johnny Quest.
> >His punk/kid voice: Rumble, Frenzy, Wheelie
> >Various animal noises: Santa's Little Helper, Reindeer,
> >Gremlins, etc.
>
> >THATS range!
>
> It's also a little unfair for comparison. With the amount of
> voice actors, there are very few who can do what Frank Welker
> and Mel Blanc can do. They are just extremely gifted at it.
>
>
>
> >Omigod! I will pretend you never said that! You would rather
> >watch a halfassed adaption of a book, than read the book
> >itself? The Amityville Horror comes to mind. Terrific book,
> >shitty film. BTW the story IS NOT true, contrary to what people
> >say. It has since been verified as a hoax.
>
> Well, I do know what you mean. The Jurassic Park book was
> better then the movie (but the movie was still very cool)
> (Although both Lost Worlds weren't that great. :) ), but I am
> just not the type that reads too much. I just either don't have
> the time (heh. Yet I can read just about any comic book thrown
> at me...), or the patience (yet another lame excuse. :) ). I
> just prefer not reading books, as I prefer actually seeing what
> is happening and leaving less to my already overactive
> imagination. :)
>
>
To each his own.
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>
>Well mozy on over to the Usenet group alt.war.nuclear and talk
to some of
>the bunker dwellers. Its good for a laugh:)
>
What's next? alt.fan.nuke.russia? (Hell, there probably IS one
of those. :) )
I believe the Doors summed it up best ...."People are
strange" :)
>
>
>As I said Toycom is planning a classic Valkyrie line from DYRL.
Which would
>feature the Strike Valkyries, VE-1 Elintseeker, and VT-1 Super
Ostrich.
Yup, I remember reading something about how they had the rights
to the movie, Macross Plus, and Macross 7 (not to sure about
that one...), and that they couldn't do the original TV series.
(Maybe HG has exclusive rights to the toys or something).
>Hell, you wanna know something. If the only way I can get my
hands on any of
>these new toys is if they had the Robotech name on them, well I
would still
>buy them. Assuming the toy itself is left unchanged. Im not
gonna screw
>Toycom over Harmony Golds greediness!
Hell, as long as they come out, I'll be happy. :)
They could be names the Rainbow Brite Brigade and I would still
buy them. (Although the thought of Valkries with rainbow colors
and floral patterns painted on them is a little disturbing. :) )
>Hell maybe this legal argument between Big West and HG can work
out in the
>favor of both the Macross fans and Robotech fans. I would love
new Mospeada
>toys to scale with Toycoms Valkyries.
Now that would be awesome. Robotech fans can have their battles
and displays with all of them in scale, while the fans of the
separate component series can have their individual battles and
displays.
Although the Cyclones may look a little small if they were to
scale. :)
>I already have a REALLY DETAILED 1/48 scale Legioss I built
that looks
>beautiful. I'll send a pic sometime.
>
I still have a couple of the big Alphas, one green (with no
wings and a broken arm peg), and a blue one (in nice condition,
except for one wing missing). I don't know their true scale,
but they fit in pretty good with my VF-1 (I think it is a Max-
type, and same size as Jetstorm). Still pretty cool, though. :)
>>
>
>To each his own.
>
Yup. Everyone has their own set of likes and dislikes. I just
wish more people would realize this. (Like some of the BM/BW/G1
sux people who just... don't get it. :) )
Deszaras
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
> "Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Well mozy on over to the Usenet group alt.war.nuclear and talk
> to some of
> >the bunker dwellers. Its good for a laugh:)
> >
> Heh. They have newsgroups for just about everything. :)
> What's next? alt.fan.nuke.russia? (Hell, there probably IS one
> of those. :) )
> I believe the Doors summed it up best ...."People are
> strange" :)
> >
Seriously im sick of people villifying the Russians. They love their
children as much as we do, and dont want them to live in a post-nuclear war
world.
> >
> >As I said Toycom is planning a classic Valkyrie line from DYRL.
> Which would
> >feature the Strike Valkyries, VE-1 Elintseeker, and VT-1 Super
> Ostrich.
>
> Yup, I remember reading something about how they had the rights
> to the movie, Macross Plus, and Macross 7 (not to sure about
> that one...), and that they couldn't do the original TV series.
> (Maybe HG has exclusive rights to the toys or something).
>
Well DYRL had enough SMALL modifications to get away with releasing them.
The basic Valkyries are typically slightly colored differently, with the
addition of the Strike Armor. The VT-1 and VE-1 are quite a bit different.
>
> >Hell, you wanna know something. If the only way I can get my
> hands on any of
> >these new toys is if they had the Robotech name on them, well I
> would still
> >buy them. Assuming the toy itself is left unchanged. Im not
> gonna screw
> >Toycom over Harmony Golds greediness!
>
> Hell, as long as they come out, I'll be happy. :)
> They could be names the Rainbow Brite Brigade and I would still
> buy them. (Although the thought of Valkries with rainbow colors
> and floral patterns painted on them is a little disturbing. :) )
>
> >Hell maybe this legal argument between Big West and HG can work
> out in the
> >favor of both the Macross fans and Robotech fans. I would love
> new Mospeada
> >toys to scale with Toycoms Valkyries.
>
> Now that would be awesome. Robotech fans can have their battles
> and displays with all of them in scale, while the fans of the
> separate component series can have their individual battles and
> displays.
> Although the Cyclones may look a little small if they were to
> scale. :)
Finally get me a transformable Tread:) Then you can link it up to the
Legioss and wreak all sorts of havoc.
As much as I love Macross, if HG wins the legal battle Toycom should sue the
hell out of Big West for giving them a distribution license that they werent
allowed to give. Toycom has placed alot of time and money into these toys,
and it would be a shame to see them go down.
Nonetheless im optimistic that these toys will be released, its only a hitch
in the road. These Valkyries will set a new standard in transforming toy
quality.
>
> >I already have a REALLY DETAILED 1/48 scale Legioss I built
> that looks
> >beautiful. I'll send a pic sometime.
> >
> I still have a couple of the big Alphas, one green (with no
> wings and a broken arm peg), and a blue one (in nice condition,
> except for one wing missing). I don't know their true scale,
> but they fit in pretty good with my VF-1 (I think it is a Max-
> type, and same size as Jetstorm). Still pretty cool, though. :)
> >>
My problem is that the Legioss toys were oddly proportioned and often
miscolored in spots. The kit I have is proportioned and engineered MUCH
better, is MUCH more detailed, and I think looks better. Coincidentally
these were made by Imai, the same folks who originally designed the 1/72
scale Valkyrie kits which were re-released by Bandai.
Basically these kits are as good as you can make them, and mine turned out
GREAT. I've thought of kitbashing a VF-1S kit into a Jetfire. Anyone think
that would be a cool idea?
SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron
>
>Seriously im sick of people villifying the Russians. They love
their
>children as much as we do, and dont want them to live in a post-
nuclear war
>world.
>
post-nuclear war world (Well, there are always thosee
exceptions, but it must be a very small number in this case.) I
may joke about it (albeit very bad jokes :) ), but it is really
not a tempting proposition to me.
>
>Well DYRL had enough SMALL modifications to get away with
releasing them.
>The basic Valkyries are typically slightly colored differently,
with the
>addition of the Strike Armor. The VT-1 and VE-1 are quite a bit
different.
>
awesome mecha. :)
>Finally get me a transformable Tread:) Then you can link it up
to the
>Legioss and wreak all sorts of havoc.
>As much as I love Macross, if HG wins the legal battle Toycom
should sue the
>hell out of Big West for giving them a distribution license
that they werent
>allowed to give. Toycom has placed alot of time and money into
these toys,
>and it would be a shame to see them go down.
>Nonetheless im optimistic that these toys will be released, its
only a hitch
>in the road. These Valkyries will set a new standard in
transforming toy
>quality.
>
If HG DOES win (which I am still unsure about), I would guess
that HG would still let them bring them out, although they will
probably get a percentage and have the name Harmony Gold on the
box or something. I really don't see them mak Toycom cancell
them, especially with the demand and quality of them.
>>
>My problem is that the Legioss toys were oddly proportioned and
often
>miscolored in spots. The kit I have is proportioned and
engineered MUCH
>better, is MUCH more detailed, and I think looks better.
Coincidentally
>these were made by Imai, the same folks who originally designed
the 1/72
>scale Valkyrie kits which were re-released by Bandai.
>Basically these kits are as good as you can make them, and mine
turned out
>GREAT.
By "kits", I am assuming you are talking of model kits, right?
I do very much like the model kits (especially those that you
snap together and don't have to paint). The only problem is
that I can't find any of the new transformable ones. Hell, I'd
even take the "Fire" Valkyrie" (although I have heard that most
of the transformable ones have a mode that is misproportioned
because it is hard to fit both desighns). Unfortunately, all I
can find in my area are Gundam kits, and, after getting a few of
them, I think I will give up on them. First of all, they are
not my most favorite mecha desighns (Macross, Southern Cross,
and Mospeada take that title), second of all, once I put them
together, they pretty much go straight to the "display area",
meaning that they are in the land of my dust collectors, and
third of all, I don't like the plastic as much as most of the
non-model toys. It is just to light and flimsy. Fine if they
are just for display (which mine end us as), but not so great
for anything else. :)
I do agree that the models do have a lot of detail and can look
very much like what it is based on, so they still are cool, even
though they (or at least mine :) ) become display peices. :)
>I've thought of kitbashing a VF-1S kit into a Jetfire. Anyone
think
>that would be a cool idea?
>
Yes, that would be pretty cool. :)
I still think the various Valkyries would make a cool
Transformers subline. Blow those dam Seekers to hell! To hell
I say! :)
Joona I Palaste
: SuperDave a.k.a. Unicron <unicronin...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in
: message news:1f278c30...@usw-ex0105-036.remarq.com...
:> "Deszaras" <desz...@netscape.net> wrote:
:> >
:> >
:> >Well mozy on over to the Usenet group alt.war.nuclear and talk
:> to some of
:> >the bunker dwellers. Its good for a laugh:)
:> >
:> Heh. They have newsgroups for just about everything. :)
:> What's next? alt.fan.nuke.russia? (Hell, there probably IS one
:> of those. :) )
:> I believe the Doors summed it up best ...."People are
:> strange" :)
:> >
: Seriously im sick of people villifying the Russians. They love their
: children as much as we do, and dont want them to live in a post-nuclear war
: world.
I wholeheartedly agree. It annoys me when people equate "Russian" with
"evil communist bastard sadist dictator scum".
Here's a challenge: If you dislike communists, please explain:
1) what a communist actually IS,
2) why you hate communists (and not "because they are so stupid", but
a genuine critique on communist politics)
This way it'll become apparent you're not just sprouting
anti-communist propaganda because everyone else is.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"Hasta la Vista, Abie!"
- Bart Simpson
Michael Morbius
> This way it'll become apparent you're not just sprouting
> anti-communist propaganda because everyone else is.
Nowadays it's sad to hear people dissing communism. But I miss the
Eighties. When you think about it, weren't you, in a way, happier back
when you *couldn't*, if pressed, actually define communism, and just liked
rooting for the Americans in movies like *Firefox* and *Red Dawn*? I know
I was.
And similarly, when the Russians and East Germans decided to switch to
capitalism in the late Eighties, and the media began telling us that the
Russians were now back to being the good guys again, I was too young at
that time to be bothered by the fact that this coincided with sudden
abject destitution for the people in those countries who couldn't adapt to
the new laissez-faire, no-social-safety-net system. I was still able, at
that time, to buy into the hype that said "Hey, at least they're not
communists. Look, they're wearing jeans."
And as I say, it was a simpler, more innocent time.
Mike
Joona I Palaste
: Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote:
:> This way it'll become apparent you're not just sprouting
:> anti-communist propaganda because everyone else is.
: Nowadays it's sad to hear people dissing communism. But I miss the
: Eighties. When you think about it, weren't you, in a way, happier back
: when you *couldn't*, if pressed, actually define communism, and just liked
: rooting for the Americans in movies like *Firefox* and *Red Dawn*? I know
: I was.
No, I don't remember ever rooting for the Americans, for the reason I'm
not American.
: And similarly, when the Russians and East Germans decided to switch to
: capitalism in the late Eighties, and the media began telling us that the
: Russians were now back to being the good guys again, I was too young at
: that time to be bothered by the fact that this coincided with sudden
: abject destitution for the people in those countries who couldn't adapt to
: the new laissez-faire, no-social-safety-net system. I was still able, at
: that time, to buy into the hype that said "Hey, at least they're not
: communists. Look, they're wearing jeans."
Last time I checked, communism was a political idea, not a criminal
offence. You can't say communists are the "bad guys" and capitalists
are the "good guys". For that matter you can't say capitalists are the
"bad guys" and communists are the "good guys" either. It's just your
opinion, not official fact.
: And as I say, it was a simpler, more innocent time.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #80 D+ ADA N+++ |
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"It sure is cool having money and chicks."
- Beavis and Butt-head
Michael Morbius
> No, I don't remember ever rooting for the Americans, for the reason I'm
> not American.
Neither am I. But when you're watching a movie, you, as the audience, are
asked to identify with the good guys, which, in the case of American
movies, which, in Canada, comprise 90% of our movies, means the Americans.
> Last time I checked, communism was a political idea, not a criminal
> offence. You can't say communists are the "bad guys" and capitalists
> are the "good guys". For that matter you can't say capitalists are the
> "bad guys" and communists are the "good guys" either. It's just your
> opinion, not official fact.
It hasn't been my opinion in about nine years. But like it or not, it
*was* once a crime to be a communist (witch hunts, anyone?) and up until
the early Nineties the communists were the designated "bad guys" according
to the US media (which, owned by the rich, has a vested interest in
discouraging communism).
Mike
Deszaras
Michael Morbius <mor...@vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:8mc9fe$eav$8...@sylvester.vcn.bc.ca...
All it was was basic prejudice.
Once again Communism was an economic philosophy. Its not evil, its just that
alot of the famous communists werent very nice guys(Stalin, Mao, etc).
We didnt have too much problems with the Communists until Germany was
divided up between The Soviet Union, United States, Britain, and France. The
latter three unified their half while the Soviets really wanted major
influence in Europe, hence the whole Eastern Block. Communism rapidly spread
easily because of these former Nazi occupied countries and others in such
economic turmoil. It sounded like an ideal solution.
Fortunately nothing particularly catastrophic came out of the Cold War(i.e.
a nuclear exchange).
Both General Patton, and Winston Churchill, attempted to persuade President
Truman to nuke the Soviets, and nuke them well before it was too late.
Thankfully that never came about.
Communism is dying though, because it has been proven that it doesnt work.
BW Sidecutter
>
Ehh. Sorta. It works on a *small* scale. Plenty of small, successful
communist communities here in the US even. But I'd say it's quite definitively
proven by now that you can't run a country that way sucessfully.
Deszaras
BW Sidecutter <wrait...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000803221606...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
> >Communism is dying though, because it has been proven that it doesnt
work.
> >
>
> Ehh. Sorta. It works on a *small* scale. Plenty of small, successful
> communist communities here in the US even. But I'd say it's quite
definitively
> proven by now that you can't run a country that way sucessfully.
>
I wouldnt go around saying plenty, as communist run US communities are
frowned upon by the US Government.
BW Sidecutter
>I wouldnt go around saying plenty, as communist run US communities are
>frowned upon by the US Government.
The goverment has no say and very damned likely could care less as long as they
pay their taxes and obey US law. They're simply following the basic rules of
communism within their own little community, which is that everyone does their
equal share of the work, and everyone recieves their equal share of the
benefits of everyone's work.