newbie learns an arcane command
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
>dgr...@cs.csubak.edu wrote:
>: "well, she prefers piping uuencode to mailx <boggle>."
>
>Find her. Give her job.
I don't think so. I think using email to move files is just bad juju to
start with, no matter what the encoding mechanism. A pointer to an ftp
site is much more elegant.
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
Stupid TV! Be more funny! -- Homer Simpson
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
I'm poking away at a stubborn old Sparc when a student walks in looking
for $PROFESSOR. Said professor asks me to help the student with
whatever is wrong. Ok, no problem.
[irrelevant stuff deleted]
student: Ok, we're supposed to tar this lab2 directory and email it to
$PROFESSOR. How do I do that?
me: Is that the directory you want (points to lab2 in the ls(1) output)?
student: Yeah.
me: I find it much easier to tar the directory itself rather than
being in the directory and certainly not using a dot like that (points to
assignment sheet). Do this "tar cfv lab2.tar lab2". See? (tar spews
filenames to the screen as expected)
student: So I have the file.
me: Yeah, now watch this (types)
"uuencode lab2.tar lab2.tar | mailx -s "lab2" $PROFESSOR"
That uuencode thing changes the file into something you can email, then
that pipe takes the stuff and emails it. There's the subject (point) and
the email address. (more explaining how nifty pipes are).
student: Cool! That's so much easier than trying to remember where I put
the file so I can email it.
And so the exchange ended. Some minutes later $PROFESSOR gets done with
whatever she was busy with and asked if I fixed her problem. "Oh yes",
said I and described the exchange. She thought this was hilarious: a
nearly complete Unix newbie (possibly computer newbie) learned an arcane
Unix command, understood it, and now apparently prefers that to mucking
with attachments with Pine or other email client. $PROFESSOR then tells a
couple other professors who also think this is funny. I just thought
"well, she prefers piping uuencode to mailx <boggle>."
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
David Scheidt
: "well, she prefers piping uuencode to mailx <boggle>."
Find her. Give her job.
--
David Scheidt <dsch...@enteract.com>
Large fibreglass fruits are much the same the world over.
-- Vicki Parslow Stafford
Shawn K. Quinn
Mike Sphar <mik...@speakeasy.org> wrote:
| I don't think so. I think using email to move files is just bad
| juju to start with, no matter what the encoding mechanism. A
| pointer to an ftp site is much more elegant.
If:
* the files aren't terribly large (usually under 200K, with some
exceptions[1]),
* confidentiality is an issue and you can only put files up for
anonymous FTP, or
* you don't have the ability to put files up for FTP or policy
prohibits doing so,
using e-mail is sometimes the best option. Otherwise I agree.
[1] If you know your recipient is on DSL, cable modem, or some other
kind of high bandwidth connection and is not billed by usage, 1M can
be considered small, and even 10M is not considered terribly
large[2]. For (telephone) modem or ISDN users, 200K is sometimes
considered bordering on terribly large.
[2] But might get rejected by the MTA anyway. I personally try to
avoid sending files larger than 900K or so by e-mail.
--
Shawn K. Quinn
David Scheidt
: Did Ancient Astronauts named David Scheidt <dsch...@enteract.com> once
: write the following? Read the book:
:>: "well, she prefers piping uuencode to mailx <boggle>."
:>
:>Find her. Give her job.
: I don't think so. I think using email to move files is just bad juju to
: start with, no matter what the encoding mechanism. A pointer to an ftp
: site is much more elegant.
The instructions were to mail the files. The PHB wants it, the PHB gets it.
--
Late at night sometimes I still suspect that Linux users are so grumpy
because they are jealous that Tux still can't find any tennis shoes
that fit. So he just sits there on his fat rump looking at his feet
wishing. -- David Kelly N4HHE
Alan J Rosenthal
>I think using email to move files is just bad juju to
>start with, no matter what the encoding mechanism. A pointer to an ftp
>site is much more elegant.
I was discussing this just yesterday as it happens...
What you want is a transmission-oriented version of ftp. A "push" version
rather than a "pull" version. Like uucp-ing a file to someone in the old
days.
Mailing an encoded file is potentially much like the use of uucp to send a
file (as opposed to a mail message, y'know, where it would show up in
uucppublic).
But it would be cooler to add file transfer support to smtp, or to create a
new standard service for sending files to individuals. Ideally, it would
put it in a temporary directory and chown it to you and send you mail.
(Uucp sent you mail when the file was received, although I think it was
left world-readable... and /usr/spool/uucppublic might even have been mode 777
so that you could delete your files (or anyone else's) after receipt.)
Perhaps uucp-over-tcp could be used for this.
Felix Deutsch
> Mike Sphar <mik...@speakeasy.org> writes:
> >I think using email to move files is just bad juju to
> >start with, no matter what the encoding mechanism. A pointer to an ftp
> >site is much more elegant.
>
> I was discussing this just yesterday as it happens...
> What you want is a transmission-oriented version of ftp. A "push" version
> rather than a "pull" version. Like uucp-ing a file to someone in the old
> days.
As it happens, this has already been done:
http://www.belwue.de/aktivitaeten/projekte/saft/saft-us.html
Felix
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
> Mike Sphar <mik...@speakeasy.org> writes:
>>I think using email to move files is just bad juju to
>>start with, no matter what the encoding mechanism. A pointer to an ftp
>>site is much more elegant.
> I was discussing this just yesterday as it happens...
> What you want is a transmission-oriented version of ftp. A "push" version
> rather than a "pull" version. Like uucp-ing a file to someone in the old
> days.
[snip uucp description]
> Perhaps uucp-over-tcp could be used for this.
Anyone remember what's going on with sendfile, if anything? I think
that's precisely what Alan wants here.
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
The PHB can actually uudecode a file?
Or was this leading up to:
PHB: Mail me the files.
PFY: Yes, sir! <mails file>
PHB: What's this? All I got is a bunch of gibberish! Get over here right
now and bring me that file!
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
Is it just me, or are there far too many talking, disembodied heads
around these days? -- The Nameless One, Planescape: Torment
Justin Warren
> Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril
> that David Scheidt did write:
>>dgr...@cs.csubak.edu wrote:
>>
>>: "well, she prefers piping uuencode to mailx <boggle>."
>>
>>Find her. Give her job.
> Hell, find her, send her over here. We could use someone
> who can cope with pipes.
I call your need for pipes and raise you the ability to learn arcane
wierdness.
--
Justin Warren | daed...@progsoc.uts.edu.au
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT after you..."
Michael Brown
>The instructions were to mail the files. The PHB wants it, the PHB gets it.
M.
--
Michael Brown -- super...@bigfoot.com
3B Computer Science, University of Waterloo
Justin Warren
> Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril
>>I call your need for pipes and raise you the ability to learn arcane
>>wierdness.
> I'd find weirdness more useful.
Tough. I've already made that call. Either bet something or show your cards. ;)
> It bothers me that it is necessary to include instructions on
> extracting compressed ufsdumps from tape on the tape packet cover.
I am more bothered by the existance of those who created a need for such
instructions.
Justin Warren
> Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril
> that Justin Warren did write:
> OK. I'll see your ability to learn arcane weirdness, and raise you
> a sysadmin who doesn't shut Solaris boxes down with the power switch.
*tsktsk*
# uadmin 2 0, surely? :) [0]
> (We have two of those. And three sysadmins.)
2 out of 3 ain't bad? Umm.. why? Not that they usually have a problem with
it when you boot them again, but it's just Not Done. Methinks you have
PC weenies in disguise.
[0] ObASR: HP-UX. No uadmin. No real init that actually works the way it's
supposed to. No snoop. No truss/strace. The whole stupid application install
method with it's /opt /etc/opt/, /var/opt, /tmp/var/etc/opt $DEITY dammit!
<mode type="rant>
Another cluster this week. Similar to my previous experience, but with yet
another variation on hardware. I brought 4 SCSI cards and 2 cables with me
from .au to .tw because there weren't any in it when it arrived and the FE
had daisy chained the HAs off the DVD and tape drives. *boggle*.
Install hardware. Take it out and change SCSI ids on cards as FE didn't
think of that. (cluster.. think cluster). Next day and 1/2 proceeds as
follows:
1. SCSI bus problem
2. recable
3. reboot
4. goto 1
eventually narrow it down to faulty cable. Replace cable. This cable is
_also_ fnarged. 3rd cable works, but busses are very odd. Recable to other
cards. Mysteriously, things only work right if a particular cable is
connected to a particular card. Swap them, and things are b0rk3n.
It's 8pm, I haven't eaten yet, and I'm in the wrong timezone not to
have eaten. _And_ I had to touch an NT thing today.. I feel so dirty.
</mode>
ObRecovery: Company paid hotel accomodation in another country.
"Yes bartender, I do believe I will have another drink. Only make this
one a double."
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
> [0] ObASR: HP-UX. No uadmin. No real init that actually works the way it's
> supposed to. No snoop. No truss/strace. The whole stupid application install
> method with it's /opt /etc/opt/, /var/opt, /tmp/var/etc/opt $DEITY dammit!
> <mode type="rant>
This sort of thing makes me wonder just what it is that makes software
that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars have such braindead install
"scripts". $PACKAGE's installer is a binary that does no more than what a
badly-written shell script might and is hardcoded to think tar(1) lives in
/bin when it doesn't. Furthermore, $PACKAGE asks for what user and group
shall own the files and then proceeds to chown them all to some constant
that has nothing to do what I told it. How hard is it to ask people to
type "./configure" or "make"??? Then the license manager keeps forgetting
itself. Getting the embedded Oracle database for this thing working
correctly[1] was comparatively easier.
[1] For about as correct as it will run on a single hard drive that it
doesn't have all to itself.
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
>that Justin Warren did write:
>>On 10 Apr 2000 12:43:59 GMT, for a reason known only to them, Matt McLeod wrote:
>>> Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril
>>> that Justin Warren did write:
>>
>>> OK. I'll see your ability to learn arcane weirdness, and raise you
>>> a sysadmin who doesn't shut Solaris boxes down with the power switch.
>>
>>it when you boot them again, but it's just Not Done. Methinks you have
>>PC weenies in disguise.
>
>to do to a machine with lots of active processes Doing Stuff to
>the disks. Lost a good chunk of /opt...
>
>We're trying to teach him, but they keep carting him off to do
>NT Stuff which isn't actually his job any more but...
Then he has even *less* of an excuse. Powering off NT without first
shutting down is even more unstable than doing it to Solaris.
>>ObRecovery: Company paid hotel accomodation in another country.
>>"Yes bartender, I do believe I will have another drink. Only make this
>>one a double."
>
>I deeply regret having felt so bloody ethical about the hotel
>bill on my trip to .hk. Lionel, if, somehow, you con me into
>going back for a bit, prepare for a devestating hotel bill.
Ethics only count if you don't *deserve* extravagant hotel bills. I know I
deserve them.
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
Powerful like a gorilla, but soft and yielding like a nerf ball
Lionel Lauer
that:
>Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril
>that Justin Warren did write:
>>ObRecovery: Company paid hotel accomodation in another country.
>>"Yes bartender, I do believe I will have another drink. Only make this
>>one a double."
>
>I deeply regret having felt so bloody ethical about the hotel
>bill on my trip to .hk. Lionel, if, somehow, you con me into
>going back for a bit, prepare for a devestating hotel bill.
<shrug>
I told you to party on down while you had the chance, but did you
listen?
<rhetorical>
I ask you, when are people going to start learning that I give *good*
advice?
</rhetorical>
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Justin Warren
> Did Ancient Astronauts named matt+...@netizen.com.au (Matt McLeod) once
> write the following? Read the book:
>>that Justin Warren did write:
>>>> that Justin Warren did write:
>>>
>>>> a sysadmin who doesn't shut Solaris boxes down with the power switch.
>>>
>>>2 out of 3 ain't bad? Umm.. why? Not that they usually have a problem with
>>>it when you boot them again, but it's just Not Done. Methinks you have
>>>PC weenies in disguise.
>>
>>Ah, yes, you spotted it. Of course it's a bloody horrible thing
>>to do to a machine with lots of active processes Doing Stuff to
>>the disks. Lost a good chunk of /opt...
>>
>>We're trying to teach him, but they keep carting him off to do
>>NT Stuff which isn't actually his job any more but...
> Then he has even *less* of an excuse. Powering off NT without first
> shutting down is even more unstable than doing it to Solaris.
So let me see if I understand what has happened.. you have an NT/PC trained
weenie and you've let him close enough to a Slowaris box to touch the
power switch? While I appreciate the fact that you are attempting to
re-program the poor fool, you really need to take more time. Obviously
the exposure to a CLI has traumatised the fellow and he panicked, exhibiting
his instinctive reaction to the desire to turn the computer off.
Perhaps you should get him to play in a DOS window on an NT box for a while
to give him time to adjust? Better yet, fire up a DOS << 5.0 box on some
old hardware so that he can acclimatise without any distractions.
"Oooo! Shiny!"
>>>ObRecovery: Company paid hotel accomodation in another country.
>>>"Yes bartender, I do believe I will have another drink. Only make this
>>>one a double."
>>
>>I deeply regret having felt so bloody ethical about the hotel
>>bill on my trip to .hk. Lionel, if, somehow, you con me into
>>going back for a bit, prepare for a devestating hotel bill.
> Ethics only count if you don't *deserve* extravagant hotel bills. I know I
> deserve them.
I'm usually quite well behaved with the division of spending thing. There are
always times when a little reward is justified. It's not my fault $PHB isn't
here to give me one. He sent me here.
Justin Warren
> Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril
> that Justin Warren did write:
>>So let me see if I understand what has happened.. you have an NT/PC trained
>>weenie and you've let him close enough to a Slowaris box to touch the
>>power switch? While I appreciate the fact that you are attempting to
>>re-program the poor fool, you really need to take more time. Obviously
>>the exposure to a CLI has traumatised the fellow and he panicked, exhibiting
>>his instinctive reaction to the desire to turn the computer off.
> Not quite. He used to do Linuxy things for his previous employer
> (hell, built most of the infrastructure for a fairly high-profile
> Internet company). I'd changed some things in /etc/system, but did't
> fancy hanging around until the developers were cool with the box being
> bounced, and don't do early mornings.
[snippery]
> Just to state the obvious: I've fucked things up too. Bad Things
> will happen. So long as one learns from the experience and doesn't
> cause complete mayhem, and one doesn't do it *too* often, it's
> actually a Good Thing.
Fair enough. Sounds like he's your standard junior admin. So long as
he's learning and doesn't damage anything too important it's really
the best way to learn. Can't stand the ones that are both Clue deficient
and incapable of absorbing new Clues no matter what they're coated in
to make them more appealing.
Justin Warren
> Funny thing is, he's the same age as I am, and has been in the
> (commercial) business longer, too. The difference seems to be
> that I'm the "jump in and give it a go" type, while he's very
> keen on doing courses and stuff before he feels confident enough
> to try new stuff.
Ah. Pity. He'd learn it faster if he played with it.. within known boundries
of course. It's fine to experiment with what rm -rf /* does as long as
you have good backups first.. and the machine isn't actually used for
anything. Cheaper too, usually. I didn't really learn anything from the
Sun Cert courses.. but the one where we got to break and then repair
Ultras was lots of fun, almost recovery and definately revenge. I guess
it'd be too hard to get certified if it was part of the requirements though.
Peter Dalgaard BSA
> of course. It's fine to experiment with what rm -rf /* does as long as
^^^^^^^^^
Something made me parse that as "rm -rf slashdot" and think "well,
that might be the only solution"....
--
O__ ---- Peter Dalgaard Blegdamsvej 3
c/ /'_ --- Dept. of Biostatistics 2200 Cph. N
(*) \(*) -- University of Copenhagen Denmark Ph: (+45) 35327918
~~~~~~~~~~ - (p.dal...@biostat.ku.dk) FAX: (+45) 35327907
Adam J. Thornton
Matt McLeod <matt+...@netizen.com.au> wrote:
>He's a nice chap, keen to learn, with enough basic Unix knowledge
>to blow his foot off. Mostly he only gets to play with the less
>essential toys, but sometimes it just can't be avoided.
^^^^
I read this as "toes" and it still made perfect sense.
Adam
--
ad...@princeton.edu
"My eyes say their prayers to her / Sailors ring her bell / Like a moth
mistakes a light bulb / For the moon and goes to hell." -- Tom Waits
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
>is wont to do from time to time -- and he couldn't get a console
>working, so he flicked the switch.
Ah, okay, that's a bit more excusable. I've worked with Solaris enough to
know that it does have times when the power switch is the only solution.
Did he at least try the old-fashioned erzbir/ernggnpu gur xrlobneq method?
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
LIBRA: Laughter is the very best medicine. Remember that when your
appendix bursts next week. - Weird Al Yankovic, "Your Horoscope for Today"
Mike Sphar
<daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> once write the following? Read the
book:
>Ah. Pity. He'd learn it faster if he played with it.. within known boundries
>anything. Cheaper too, usually. I didn't really learn anything from the
>Sun Cert courses.. but the one where we got to break and then repair
>Ultras was lots of fun, almost recovery and definately revenge. I guess
>it'd be too hard to get certified if it was part of the requirements though.
Which courses let you do that? I took the two Solaris Admin courses (way
back in the 2.5 days) and I have to agree that they were pretty much
useless. Actually breaking and fixing machines sounds like something I
might want to send some PFYs to.
Justin Warren
> Justin Warren <daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> writes:
>> of course. It's fine to experiment with what rm -rf /* does as long as
> ^^^^^^^^^
> Something made me parse that as "rm -rf slashdot" and think "well,
> that might be the only solution"....
C|N>K
Dammit, that's twice today!
Justin Warren
> I want to do the troubleshooting coure(s) -- the general sysadmin
> ones look terribly boring and probably a waste of money, but that one
> looks both interesting and useful.
> Chances of actually scoring the course? Not very high. There's a
> training budget allocated per person which is just enough to cover
> either that or SAGE-AU 2000, but I'll probably end up missing out
> on both. *grumble*
Pity. You get to do and learn all sorts of BOFHish things to do with Sun
boxen in general. Very handy stuff in case you ever want to break something
on purpose in a weird and difficult to find way.
I should drag myself along to a SAGE or AUUG type thing one of these days.
Hell, I should probably also join.
> Sometime next week I plan to dig out one of the spare SS20s and
> give it to my colleague as a sandbox. Now that they've stuck him
> with doing Orrible stuff he seems more motivated to do that...
Fun fun. That's the sort of environment where you learn all the neat tricks
that come in handy when a swerver becomes seriously wedged. Do it for
long enough and you probably won't need the Sun course. Not that it was
really all _that_ useful. Anyone with half a Clue and a couple of years
subjected to this farce we call a job won't learn much. But you weren't
planning on learning anything were you? I advocate it only as a source
of recovery from inflicting object lessons on swervers. To do otherwise
would be UI.
Justin Warren
> Did Ancient Astronauts named Justin Warren
> <daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> once write the following? Read the
> book:
>>Ah. Pity. He'd learn it faster if he played with it.. within known boundries
>>anything. Cheaper too, usually. I didn't really learn anything from the
>>Sun Cert courses.. but the one where we got to break and then repair
>>Ultras was lots of fun, almost recovery and definately revenge. I guess
>>it'd be too hard to get certified if it was part of the requirements though.
> Which courses let you do that? I took the two Solaris Admin courses (way
> back in the 2.5 days) and I have to agree that they were pretty much
> useless. Actually breaking and fixing machines sounds like something I
> might want to send some PFYs to.
ObLART: Request for UI? In the Monastery? Come now...
Chris Rovers
Revenge on sparcs is *NOT* UI - it is definitely recovery.
Sun hardware sucks. It just sucks a lot less then PC hardware.
-cdr
--
'Which is why most of us are really good at everything, and thus should be
referred to by our proper titles of "Sir" or, for preference, "Your
Eminence".' - Mike Sphar in the SDM on Specialists who specialize in it all
Mike Sphar
<daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> once write the following? Read the
book:
>On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:43:00 -0700, for a reason known only to them, Mike Sphar wrote:
>> Which courses let you do that? I took the two Solaris Admin courses (way
>> back in the 2.5 days) and I have to agree that they were pretty much
>> useless. Actually breaking and fixing machines sounds like something I
>> might want to send some PFYs to.
>
>ObLART: Request for UI? In the Monastery? Come now...
Valid point, though in my case sending PFYs to training would most
definitely lead to recovery.
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
When in doubt, keep in mind that 'O Gallant Piglet' is always a very
thoughtful way of beginning a piece of poetry. -- Piglet
Justin Warren
> Did Ancient Astronauts named Justin Warren
> <daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> once write the following? Read the
> book:
>>On Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:43:00 -0700, for a reason known only to them, Mike Sphar wrote:
>>> Which courses let you do that? I took the two Solaris Admin courses (way
>>> back in the 2.5 days) and I have to agree that they were pretty much
>>> useless. Actually breaking and fixing machines sounds like something I
>>> might want to send some PFYs to.
>>
>>ObLART: Request for UI? In the Monastery? Come now...
> Valid point, though in my case sending PFYs to training would most
> definitely lead to recovery.
True enough. Also, as someone else pointed out, vengence on sparcs is
recovery. Learning BOFH tricks is recovery. It /is/ UI though, so I
replied offline and my LART was gentle[0]. Maybe next time I'll just see
if I can get my tin/vi combination to obscure things in the customary
fashion[1].
[0] oxymoron?
[1] Originally keyed as 'faschion' which almost parses correctly. "My dear,
your Freudian slip is showing".
Juergen Nieveler
> All Hardware Sucks.
Except for Vacuum Cleaners, of course!
--
Juergen Nieveler
Support the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide: http://www.dhmo.org/
"The people united can never be ignited!"- Sgt. Colon, Ankh-Morpork Watch
PGP-Key available under www.netcologne.de/~nc-nievelju/
Justin The Cynical
->gus...@shell.dhp.com (gustav) wrote in <8d535e$u6n$2...@stronghold.dhp.com>:
->
->> All Hardware Sucks.
->
->Except for Vacuum Cleaners, of course!
Unless Microsoft made them...
ObChanceOfRecovery: $MOTOS might be coming over this weekend. $ME planning on
making $DINNER. $ME even bought some candles and $POSH[1] candle holders.
<I hopeI hopeI hopeI hope>
[1] For various values of course. They actually hold the candle above the
table!
--
"You do have to wonder if anyone's ever tried to figure why so many left-handed
albino Eskimo marketing people are downloading something like a COBOL compiler
or why the CEOs of 50,000 person companies have $15,000 salaries."
*- Chris Adams in the SDM -*
- Justin The Cynical * cyn...@linuxstart.com -
Graham Reed
> This sort of thing makes me wonder just what it is that makes software
> that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars have such braindead install
> "scripts".
I've noticed that. The more something costs, the harder it will be to
get it working.
I don't think our half-million $PACKAGE even has an install script, so I
don't think you're ranting at us.
--
"Oooh, I just _love_ my on-line thesaurus!"
Esther Friesner, editor, _Chicks and Chained Males_
Jed Davis
<Pine.LNX.4.10.100040...@fuzzball.meridian.redhat.com>,
Peter <pjo...@datastacks.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2000, Mike Sphar wrote:
>
> > Did Ancient Astronauts named David Scheidt <dsch...@enteract.com> once
> > write the following? Read the book:
> > >dgr...@cs.csubak.edu wrote:
> > >: "well, she prefers piping uuencode to mailx <boggle>."
> > >
> > >Find her. Give her job.
> >
> > I don't think so. I think using email to move files is just bad juju to
> > start with, no matter what the encoding mechanism. A pointer to an ftp
> > site is much more elegant.
>
> Right, but the requirement was that she was _told_ to email it. It could
> have been worse. She could have been told to use a floppy disk.
>
uuencode and pipe to dd
HTH | HAND
--Jed
--
"WARNING - Do not swallow the battery door"
--Motorola minipager Instruction Manual.
Lieven Marchand
> [0] as in it's in beta or so, and is getting it's first real
> nasty trial-by-fire for some sort of football competition in
> Europe soonish.
If you mean that bloody hooligan fest those idiots^Wpoliticians
volunteered Belgium and the Netherlands for, it'd better not have
anything to do with law enforcement or it will end in fire.
ObThreadCrossOver: we have a fine North Sea to build floatable
football stadions for (and revoke the floatable property at the
right time)
--
Lieven Marchand <m...@bewoner.dma.be>
If there are aliens, they play Go. -- Lasker
Stephen Harris
: gus...@shell.dhp.com (gustav) wrote in <8d535e$u6n$2...@stronghold.dhp.com>:
: > All Hardware Sucks.
: Except for Vacuum Cleaners, of course!
They just suck backwards, of course. Hmm, is "suckiness" a signed or
unsigned value? Could the vacuum cleaner be the only piece of hardware
with negative suckiness?
--
Stephen Harris
sw...@spuddy.mew.co.uk http://www.spuddy.org/
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.
* Meeeeow ! Call Spud the Cat on > 01708 442043 < for free Usenet access *
Michael Hinz
> On 12 Apr 2000 10:47:23 GMT, for a reason known only to them, Matt McLeod wrote:
>
> > Funny thing is, he's the same age as I am, and has been in the
> > (commercial) business longer, too. The difference seems to be
> > that I'm the "jump in and give it a go" type, while he's very
> > keen on doing courses and stuff before he feels confident enough
> > to try new stuff.
>
> of course. It's fine to experiment with what rm -rf /* does as long as
> you have good backups first.. and the machine isn't actually used for
> anything. Cheaper too, usually. I didn't really learn anything from the
Seconded. I would never have gotten the grip on Ultrix[0] if it wasn't
for my then-workstation. Which I used for mail and stuff, so to me it
was pretty important. But I was allowed to play around on it, which made
it a lot easier to do things to the other Ultrix box(en)[1], which had
quite some people depending on them.
And it's the reason I ran Linux[2] from day one on the PC I have now.
Experimenting on mission critical machines is something I just won't
do. Call it professional pride if you will. The only thing about my own
PC is that it has to be in a somewhat working state (network and the
SCSI subsystem, the rest is not that important) to do backup duty every
night. And it has.
> Sun Cert courses.. but the one where we got to break and then repair
> Ultras was lots of fun, almost recovery and definately revenge. I guess
> it'd be too hard to get certified if it was part of the requirements though.
Oooooh, that sounds fun.
And about the "too hard to get certified" - from what I hear Cisco
certifications are a variation of this scheme. They show you a working
network, send you out of the room, and when you come back they have
broken it and you have to find out how. But that's not half as fun as
breaking it yourself[3] ;)
Michael
[0] firmly around the neck, what did *you* think?
[1] student server and main server/mail gateway. Later the latter was
used as the student server and the old student server was phased out.
[2] yes, my servers run Linux. Want to make a religious war of it?
[3] thread-crossover - "the game servers seem to be very loaded lately"
--
10 foot poles! Get'cher 10 foot poles! Inna bun! Fresh 10 foot poles,
made by monks on a mountain! 2 bucks each, and that's cutting my own
hand off. 10 foot poles! Guaranteed to not touch anything!
-- Graham Reed
void
>On 14 Apr 2000 09:40:18 +0200, Juergen Nieveler <niev...@netcologne.de> wrote:
>->gus...@shell.dhp.com (gustav) wrote in <8d535e$u6n$2...@stronghold.dhp.com>:
>->
>->> All Hardware Sucks.
>->
>
>Unless Microsoft made them...
Um, no.
--
Ben
220 go.ahead.make.my.day ESMTP Postfix
Lieven Marchand
> Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril
> that Lieven Marchand did write:
> >If you mean that bloody hooligan fest those idiots^Wpoliticians
> >volunteered Belgium and the Netherlands for, it'd better not have
> >anything to do with law enforcement or it will end in fire.
>
> That would be the one, yes. At least I think so -- we're sending
> a victim to .nl to babysit the thing.
>
> It's a telco service related to that. I'm not sure how much has
> been announced in Europe yet, but it's going to be rather high-profile,
> so if it doesn't work things may be a bit embarassing.
Half the stadions aren't ready with the rebuilding changes, the
station rows of seets in Charleroi have such a steep gradient that the
medical units are training with brancards that can be hoisted in an
alpine way with climbers and the Belgian politicians have decided to
reorganise the 3 police forces to coincide with the happy event so
that all three have already threatened with strikes.
Noone will notice anything out of the ordinary if a bit of telco gear
doesn't work ;-)
Justin Warren
> Juergen Nieveler (niev...@netcologne.de) wrote:
> They just suck backwards, of course. Hmm, is "suckiness" a signed or
> unsigned value? Could the vacuum cleaner be the only piece of hardware
> with negative suckiness?
No. Suckiness is always an unsigned value, with the implicit assumtion of
it being positive. All measured in Ll, of course. If you doubt this, try
going on tech support for a vacuum cleaner company..
<cue VBC[0] company intro video>
"Hello, $VBC, $TechSupportPerson speaking..."
"Hi. Umm.. My vacuum is broken."
"Is it plugged in?"
"Oh.. umm.. nevermind."
[0] Vacuum/Blower Company
Kai Henningsen
> Did Ancient Astronauts named David Scheidt <dsch...@enteract.com> once
> write the following? Read the book:
> >dgr...@cs.csubak.edu wrote:
> >: "well, she prefers piping uuencode to mailx <boggle>."
> >
> >Find her. Give her job.
>
> I don't think so. I think using email to move files is just bad juju to
> start with, no matter what the encoding mechanism. A pointer to an ftp
> site is much more elegant.
Bah. When I have a (not too large) file that someone needs on another
machine, not having a permanent connection, just mailing it is usually
better.
Even more if the file originates on another machine without permanent
connection.
Sure, for large (multi-MB) files, it usually isn't - that's when I write
stuff like "the archive of old mail I've just sorted is on $HOST under
判ATH, in mbox format by month - 57 MB total", and expect people to ssh in
and use $MUA and/or grepmail.
Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu)
Martin Wisse
wrote:
>gus...@shell.dhp.com (gustav) wrote in <8d535e$u6n$2...@stronghold.dhp.com>:
>
>> All Hardware Sucks.
>
>Except for Vacuum Cleaners, of course!
Cue the "VAX: we really suck!" story...
Martin Wisse
Justin Warren
> And about the "too hard to get certified" - from what I hear Cisco
> certifications are a variation of this scheme. They show you a working
> network, send you out of the room, and when you come back they have
> broken it and you have to find out how. But that's not half as fun as
> breaking it yourself[3] ;)
True. And yes, the Sun stuff is done in teams, with one of you leaving the
room and the others break the box in a way set out by the list in the book.
Apparently all the ones in the book have been taken from actual experiences
by Sun FEs. I learnt a few interesting tricks from that course.
[3] NMF
Alan J Rosenthal
>[0] Vacuum/Blower Company
Is this a reference to the old vacuum cleaners where you could attach the hose
to the wrong end and inflate stuff? Man, I haven't seen one of those since...
[rummage through ages list] BEFORE YOU WERE BORN!
Perhaps they were manufactured more recently in Australia.
Speaking of which.. someone else said something about suckage and vaxes,
and I'm not sure whether they're referring to: In the mid-1980s there
was an urban legend going around some unix folk, our main "competitor"
at that time being VAX VMS, that there was an Australian vacuum cleaner
company entitled "Vax" with an advertising slogan "nothing sucks like a vax".
I assumed the story was false until I saw for myself various equally strange
product positioning... For example, a desktop publishing software program
called "PublishIt!" (say it out loud, at least in my dialect the word "shit"
is unmistakeable), and for another, a trucking company called Fluke with
the slogan "If it's on time, it's a Fluke". I guess that the latter is
intentionally humorous although the former is undoubtedly unintentional
(but I still can't believe they missed it), and anyway the latter is SO
insulting I find it, well, hard to believe even though I've seen it.
Mind followups.
Peter da Silva
Alan J Rosenthal <fl...@dgp.toronto.edu> wrote:
>was an urban legend going around some unix folk, our main "competitor"
>at that time being VAX VMS, that there was an Australian vacuum cleaner
>company entitled "Vax" with an advertising slogan "nothing sucks like a vax".
Thread recycling alert: "nothing sucks like Electrolux".
Oh, and "if it works, it's a Fluke!"
--
This is The Reverend Peter da Silva's Boring Sig File - there are no references
to Wolves, Kibo, Discordianism, or The Church of the Subgenius in this document
Executive Vice President, Corporate Communications, Entropy Gradient Reversals.
"[Deep Impact]: the tragedy of Bad Science hitting the planet." -- David Jacoby
Joe Zeff
Rosenthal) wrote:
>a trucking company called Fluke with
>the slogan "If it's on time, it's a Fluke".
Years ago, down in San Diego, there was a big construction company,
owned by the Hazard family, that did much freeway construction. They
proudly proclaimed at each site, "Another Hazard construction
project." Clearly, they knew exactly what it sounded like.
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
If you can't play with words, what good are they?
http://www.lasfs.org http://home.earthlink.net/~sidebrnz
Ben Coleman
>Oh, and "if it works, it's a Fluke!"
That's the Fluke meter company, right?
Ben
--
Ben Coleman NJ8J http://oloryn.home.mindspring.com/
"I love the way Microsoft follows standards. In much the
same manner that fish follow migrating caribou."
Paul Tomblin
Justin Warren
> Justin Warren <daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> writes:
>><cue VBC[0] company intro video>
> ...
>>[0] Vacuum/Blower Company
> Is this a reference to the old vacuum cleaners where you could attach the hose
> to the wrong end and inflate stuff? Man, I haven't seen one of those since...
> [rummage through ages list] BEFORE YOU WERE BORN!
My original intention was of a mythical company that makes both vacuums and
leaf blower type things, but your interpretation also works. I have seen the
odd vacuum with a Blow mode, usually doing demos out the front of a $RETAILER
by keeping some sort of beachball in the air. That, and I also have a
reasonable appreciation of history. ;)
Justin Chandler
<daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> wrote:
> I have seen the odd vacuum with a Blow mode,
Mis-parsed as "I have seen the old vacuum in blow mode." Pet name for
your wife?
-=Justin=-
--
"reproduces if added to its quotation." reproduces if added
to its quotation.
Ralph Wade Phillips
Peter da Silva wrote in message <8dlvl0$24a6$1...@citadel.in.taronga.com>...
>In article <2000Apr19....@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>,
>Alan J Rosenthal <fl...@dgp.toronto.edu> wrote:
>>was an urban legend going around some unix folk, our main "competitor"
>>at that time being VAX VMS, that there was an Australian vacuum cleaner
>>company entitled "Vax" with an advertising slogan "nothing sucks like a
vax".
>
>Thread recycling alert: "nothing sucks like Electrolux".
>
>Oh, and "if it works, it's a Fluke!"
You DO remember where that came from, right? And the reason why it
was a 1-month campaign? (Well, maybe 2 or 3 ... )
I remember it like it was yesterday (which it wasn't - try early
70's!)
RwP
Ralph Wade Phillips
Justin Warren wrote in message <8dmdo5$pvf$1...@woodstock.socs.uts.EDU.AU>...
>On 19 Apr 2000 23:39:25 GMT, for a reason known only to them, Alan J
Rosenthal wrote:
>> Justin Warren <daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> writes:
>>><cue VBC[0] company intro video>
>> ...
>>>[0] Vacuum/Blower Company
>
>> Is this a reference to the old vacuum cleaners where you could attach the
hose
>> to the wrong end and inflate stuff? Man, I haven't seen one of those
since...
>> [rummage through ages list] BEFORE YOU WERE BORN!
>
>My original intention was of a mythical company that makes both vacuums and
>leaf blower type things, but your interpretation also works. I have seen
the
>odd vacuum with a Blow mode, usually doing demos out the front of a
$RETAILER
>by keeping some sort of beachball in the air. That, and I also have a
>reasonable appreciation of history. ;)
Not too odd, although having inlaws in construction maybe makes me
more cognitive of "Shop Wet/R/Dry Vacs", which have the exact same fitting
for suck as blow ...
My BIL bought a new one this year. The old one finally gave up the
ghost(1) after 12 years of construction work.
'Tis also what the MIL uses for her house vac - something about
using tile and wood floors makes a shop vac better than a suck broom could
ever be. Especially the custom 220V/20A version ... <grins>
RwP
(1) For some strange reason, when enough sawdust gets into the motor, it
quits spinning round and round and starts getting hot, causing said sawdust
to burn ...
dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu
> On 20 Apr 2000 08:05:25 GMT, Justin Warren
> <daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> wrote:
>> I have seen the odd vacuum with a Blow mode,
> Mis-parsed as "I have seen the old vacuum in blow mode." Pet name for
> your wife?
"It's MegaMaid, sir!"
<BOOM> <boom> <BOOM> <boom> <BOOM> <boom> <BOOM>
"She's gone from suck to blow!"
(shamelessly ripped from "Spaceballs: The Fortune File")
--
David Griffith Have you met Cadbury, the Destructo-Bunny yet?
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
Dave Vandervies
>to the wrong end and inflate stuff? Man, I haven't seen one of those since...
>[rummage through ages list] BEFORE YOU WERE BORN!
I've seen (and used) one of those just last summer!
Never mind that it was probably *made* before I was born, but it was
still working quite well (and very useful; it was used to inflate a
large floating object designed to make it possible to tow five people
behind a boat. Not something I'd want to have to pump up without some
sort of automatic blower).
dave
--
Dave Vandervies
dj3v...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca
I have no mouth, and I must scream.
David Croxford
>Justin Warren <daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> writes:
>><cue VBC[0] company intro video>
>...
>>[0] Vacuum/Blower Company
>
>to the wrong end and inflate stuff? Man, I haven't seen one of those since...
>[rummage through ages list] BEFORE YOU WERE BORN!
>
>
>Speaking of which.. someone else said something about suckage and vaxes,
>and I'm not sure whether they're referring to: In the mid-1980s there
>at that time being VAX VMS, that there was an Australian vacuum cleaner
>company entitled "Vax" with an advertising slogan "nothing sucks like a vax".
I don't know about the slogan but that company did (probably still do) sell
wet/dry vacuum cleaners and carpet washing machines in .uk.
--
David Croxford
JCR Systems Manager, Hertford College, Oxford.
Greg Andrews
>In article <FtBv7...@news.boeing.com>,
>Ralph Wade Phillips <ral...@techie.com> wrote:
>>Peter da Silva wrote in message <8dlvl0$24a6$1...@citadel.in.taronga.com>...
>
>>>Oh, and "if it works, it's a Fluke!"
>
>> You DO remember where that came from, right? And the reason why it
>>was a 1-month campaign? (Well, maybe 2 or 3 ... )
>
>was long ago, in another country, and besides...
>
...the LED is DED.
-Greg
--
::::::::::::::::::: Greg Andrews ge...@wco.com :::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mike Andrews
: [0] I grew up considering Flukes to be the Rolls Royce of test
: instruments (for both quality & price), & I've still not seen any reason
: to change my opinion.
: But goddamn, they're expensive.
<AOL>, for the stuff thatFluke and HP both make. For the non-Fluke
stuff, I'll go with HP 99.9% of the time. But the Fluke voltage &
current sources are just plain unexcelled.
--
I trust the cut&paste under Win2k's telnet about as far as I can comfortably
spit a rat.
-- John Burnham, in the Monastery
Jerry Leslie
: I don't know about the slogan but that company did (probably still do)
Trying this:
Brought up Vax's home page:
http://www.vax.co.uk/pages/navigation/mainfr_navigator.htm
vacuum cleaners, carpet cleaners, hoovers from Vax
IIRS, there's also an anti-allergy medication called "VAX",
for treatment of allergies to cats.
Ralph Wade Phillips
Peter da Silva wrote in message <8dnm0a$1273$1...@citadel.in.taronga.com>...
>In article <FtBv7...@news.boeing.com>,
>Ralph Wade Phillips <ral...@techie.com> wrote:
>>Peter da Silva wrote in message <8dlvl0$24a6$1...@citadel.in.taronga.com>...
>>>Thread recycling alert: "nothing sucks like Electrolux".
>
>>>Oh, and "if it works, it's a Fluke!"
>
>> You DO remember where that came from, right? And the reason why
it
>>was a 1-month campaign? (Well, maybe 2 or 3 ... )
>
>I remember both of those being pretty long term campaigns. Of course that
>was long ago, in another country, and besides...
Could easily have been, but I only remember two months' worth.
February in the early 70's, in Popular Electronics magazine, there
was a full page Fluke ad with the comment at the bottom, "If it works, it's
a Fluke!". Month or two later, there's a Beckman ad with the tag line "Ours
work by design."
When Beckman's ad came out, or so I've been told, John Fluke just
about had both a stroke and a heart attack over how the ad campaign sounded
to those of us who (at the time!) knew diddly about John Fluke (founder of
Fluke whatever).
I do remember, over the rest of the year, the letters to the editor
of Poptronics about the ad campaigns.
RwP
Justin Warren
> On 20 Apr 2000 08:05:25 GMT, Justin Warren
> <daedalu...@progsoc.uts.edu.au> wrote:
>> I have seen the odd vacuum with a Blow mode,
> Mis-parsed as "I have seen the old vacuum in blow mode." Pet name for
> your wife?
I am fortunate enough to have avoided that particular calamity, though I
once had a close call[0]. Then again, perhaps a Blow mode would be a good
idea for the next version. References to attachments should probably be
avoided, as it's getting a bit too close to TTTSNBN.
[0] Yes. Once. When I was young(er) and slightly more foolish.
ObRecovery: Complimentary upgrade coming back from Brisbane yesterday. Qantas
club membership just paid for itself, and there's something about half decent
food and free booze that just sits right with me, particularly since it was
my birthday.
Mike Sphar
write the following? Read the book:
>to the wrong end and inflate stuff? Man, I haven't seen one of those since...
>[rummage through ages list] BEFORE YOU WERE BORN!
Don't know about furrin parts, but just about any shop-vac has this
"feature".
Btw, if you happen to spill a whole package of fresh grated parmesan, don't
vacuum it up with your shopvac and then shove the shopvac in a closet and
forget about it for several months. The next time you use the shopvac will
be...interesting, and very possibly nauseating.
--
Mike Sphar http://mikey.sanjoseweb.com mi...@matches.com
...O'Reilly is to a system administrator as a shoulder-length latex glove
is to a veterinarian. -- Peter Da Silva
Michael Hinz
> "It's MegaMaid, sir!"
>
> <BOOM> <boom> <BOOM> <boom> <BOOM> <boom> <BOOM>
>
> "She's gone from suck to blow!"
>
> (shamelessly ripped from "Spaceballs: The Fortune File")
Hehe.
Could have been worse, though. I saw it synchronized to German.
Somehow I'll never look at Starwars like I did before...
"Achtung, Lord Helmchen naht!"
Michael
Tai
>And about the "too hard to get certified" - from what I hear Cisco
>certifications are a variation of this scheme. They show you a working
>network, send you out of the room, and when you come back they have
>broken it and you have to find out how. But that's not half as fun as
Some of the things they do are outright bastardly. I was talking
with our resident ccie, and he mentioned one of the tricks they pulled on
this poor candidate. Keep in mind the poor guy can't type to save his
life. So, they set the timeout to 1 second. If you don't type fast enough
to get in, and disable it...
-Tai
--
If a foreign government had imposed this system of education on the United
States, we would rightly consider it an act of war.
-- Nobel Prize winner, Glenn T. Seaborg
Joe Thompson
> Some of the things they do are outright bastardly. I was talking
> with our resident ccie, and he mentioned one of the tricks they pulled on
> this poor candidate. Keep in mind the poor guy can't type to save his
> life. So, they set the timeout to 1 second. If you don't type fast enough
> to get in, and disable it...
...you use appropriate variations of cut 'n' paste.
Lateral thinking is good. -- Joe
--
Joe Thompson | http://www.orion-com.com/~kensey/
sp...@orion-com.com | PGP key: Finger joe-...@mindspring.com
What happens when your arms fall | <zithrlily> my tongue is a
off? You can't pick them up. | deadly weapon
Tai
>On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 03:55:41 GMT, Tai wrote:
>> Some of the things they do are outright bastardly. I was talking
>> with our resident ccie, and he mentioned one of the tricks they pulled on
>> this poor candidate. Keep in mind the poor guy can't type to save his
>> life. So, they set the timeout to 1 second. If you don't type fast enough
>> to get in, and disable it...
>
>...you use appropriate variations of cut 'n' paste.
Not having taken the test, nor having more details, it could be
that they were using dumb terminals? Other than VT420s or similar, you
don't have cut 'n' paste then.
-Tai "who is still surprised that routers support telnet but not ssh"
Shalon Wood
> I understand that certain versions of IOS do have ssh, but I do not
> know which versions and anyway I may have misunderstood.
I believe it is 12.05 and above.
>
> So -- am I wasting my time thinking about taking a shot at a CCNA?[0]
> It seems a grand way to keep myself busy for a few minutes.
CCNA is trivial.
Shalon
at it would've helped, if the writers are lusers. The must be,
> if they didn't even consider reviewing the script for scientific
> validity. It's been done, e.g. in "2001". Also, it's funny how life
> occasionally imitates art.
Earlier in this thread http://badastronomy.com was mentioned.
My brain started ticking, maybe there is a site for those
really hardcore astrogators and celestial mathematicians,
badasstronomy.com
Nope, but badass.com [1] exists, and they have a meteor shower.
[1] Easier to remember than Disobedient Donkey. (No STR)
--
Behind every good computer -- is a jumble of wires 'n stuff.
Adam Atkinson
>>If I decide to stay where I am (a decision I'll probably be able to
>>make within the next 6 months), I'll probably ask work to shell out
>>for a CCIE. That way, I end up with more pay and a 5-year
>>non-negotiable "stay where you are". I really don't see a need for the
>>smaller certs... ;)
>I have the CCNA training material, just have to get some sort of
>'doze[0] system running to play with it. As I'd be paying for it
>myself, I figure that the cheaper first-level one is the best
>bet to start.
CCNA really isn't very hard. You should be able to get it mostly on
general knowledge. CCIE is lethal.
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
We know Jesus must have been Italian for 3 reasons: he lived at home
until he was 30, he thought his mother was a virgin, and she thought
he was God.
Jak
news:938.156T1297...@mistral.co.uk...
<big snip>
> We know Jesus must have been Italian for 3 reasons: he lived at
home
> until he was 30, he thought his mother was a virgin, and she
thought
> he was God.
Heh... first heard this one substituting Irish for Italian - Lawrence
Block novel afair. With the addition that "he spent the last night of
his life drinking with the lads".
Wound up so many folk with that one.
Jak