Bure and past goal scorers
Doug Patton
Peca? Bure's clip with the Rangers would put him on pace for 60+ and he had
50+ the last two seasons....... I must be a fucking moron, because I don't
see how that's a bad thing..... THE GUY SCORES GOALS, and does it very damn
well thank you, as did all other great scorers in the history of this
league, without giving two shits about defence. He'll score 60 and maybe be
directly attributable to 10... that's a damn good ratio.
The guy does backcheck, and does play d when needed, and he'll surprise you
when you least expect it and knock you flat on your ass (he is one of the
strongest players pound for pound in the league....) 16 points in 9 games
and people are still bitching and moaning.... he's put more on the table the
last 9 games than any Ranger has all season, and he's only been here 9
games..... lay off and learn the game. 60 goal scorers come around once in
a blue moon; especially for nothing....
Enjoy the greatest offensive talent in the game while youve got him. I
watched him for years here in Vancouver and noone will ever pull you out of
your seat like this guy will.
he's the on birght spot in another shitty season.
>end rant
Doug
Kovy
who's bitching and moaning?
Roger Sherman
>> 16 points in 9 games and people are still bitching and moaning
>
> who's bitching and moaning?
Me, for one...I miss Mogilny! ;-)
YANKSin5
"Doug Patton" <dpat...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:QU2s8.27879$2j3.2...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
The funny part is,people whine about losing the draft pick for Pavel,you
gotta be kidding me.....lol
Tom & Linda
range when they join the Rangers. There's a jinx. They either lose it,
get old and can't do it any more... or get injured. But something
always goes wrong.
The list goes on and on...
Bobby Carpenter
Marcel Dionne (faded with old age)
Luc Robataille
Gretz (faded with old age)
Espo
Ken Hodge
Eric Lindros
Theo Fleury
Kurri (career over by then)
Kevin Stevens
And it also works in reverse.
AK27
Rick Middleton
Dave Gagne
Tony Amonte
Doug Weight
Paul Broten
Nedved probably belongs on both lists.
Any more additions? Must be a few dozen more.
--Tom
Kovy
games is just about what he has done throughout his career.
Craig
rush he made vs the Rangers that last game, breaking right through the
middle, and almost scoring.
C
"Roger Sherman" <r...@slammingrooves.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.04.07.17...@slammingrooves.com...
Craig
: )
C
"Tom & Linda" <TKAN...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3CB0C7DB...@worldnet.att.net...
the big captain
defensive liabilities are the same ones apparently partially blind or at
least mute when it comes to the same deficiencies exhibited by too many
of the ranger's top(!) defensemen, including both leetch and berard, and
now poti as well.
my advice to pavel bure (as if he needs it.....) just score baby.
--
andre
the big captain
Tom & Linda
during the 80's. Draft and find very good players. Like Amonte.
Leetch. Richter. Dahlin. Weight. Beezer. Zubov. Norstrom.
Cloutier. Kelly Miller. Mike Ridley. James Patrick. Jan Erixon.
Peter Sundstrom. Thomas Sandstrom. Tony Granato. Dave Gagner.
Then with a good base... go out and get the missing pieces.
Similar to what the Yankees do. They get their main pieces from the
draft. Then fill in the blanks with trades and free agents. Look at
who they got in the draft. Jeter. Soriano. Posada. Williams.
Petit. Mariano Rivera. Then use excess kids for trading for other
people. Free agents are then added to make it a perfect fit. They
don't use free agents to "create" the team.
You need to start with the best talent evaluators.
I like what we've started with Lundmark, Blackburn, Mottau... but I want
to keep it going that way. That's what we should go for.
--Tom
VK
Mogilny and Sergei Fedorov as a replacement to Krutov-Larionov-Makarov. In
now days that unit would be scary enough to any team. As well as fun to
watch.
VK
Mr Tony Iommi
> What I'd hope we'd do is do what we did back in the early 90's and
> during the 80's. Draft and find very good players. Like Amonte.
> Leetch. Richter. Dahlin. Weight. Beezer. Zubov. Norstrom.
> Cloutier. Kelly Miller. Mike Ridley. James Patrick. Jan Erixon.
> Peter Sundstrom. Thomas Sandstrom. Tony Granato. Dave Gagner.
>
> Then with a good base... go out and get the missing pieces.
>
> Similar to what the Yankees do. They get their main pieces from the
> draft. Then fill in the blanks with trades and free agents. Look at
> who they got in the draft. Jeter. Soriano. Posada. Williams.
> Petit. Mariano Rivera. Then use excess kids for trading for other
> people. Free agents are then added to make it a perfect fit. They
> don't use free agents to "create" the team.
>
> You need to start with the best talent evaluators.
>
> I like what we've started with Lundmark, Blackburn, Mottau... but I want
> to keep it going that way. That's what we should go for.
>
> --Tom
oh please, stop with the Yankme crap. I guess "pluggin in pieces"
means most of the pitching staff. Yankees can and will buy as many
free agents as any team in any sport, they just do it smarter and the
rangers do it dumber. Not to mention MLB is much more suited to free
agency than hockey, as its so much more of an individual sport. we
need more two way players so we can protect whoever is playin goal
next year. We Already got the potential to be the best offensive team
in the league, now its time to get the two way players, the muckers
and grinders, and if thats thru free agency, thats cool with me.
Danny Clark
Oh please, stop with the we need more mucker crap. Free agent muckers like
Keane, Taylor and Skrudland? Yeah...those missing pieces get us the
playoffs...or was it a cup?
We need a system, and hard 2 way work/consistent production from our 20
minute a game players....not more revolving of 3rd line 7 minute a game
"muck" players.
And know what? We can sign everybody, but we won't win until we get a
system that each player can define his roles and learn to be accountable
with their selfish actions and lack of hustle. A system that aint the
Gretzky/Messier Oilers system of 20 years ago.
Individually, this team needs a monster hitter on defense that can play
the game, a power wing, a playmaking center and a big hulking defensive
center with skill.
It also needs to rid themselves of MEssier and his political influence,
and Leetch can't play 20 minutes a game any more...especially when we are
up a goal. You want a defensemen to play 20 minutes?...then he better be
great in both ends.
But, it won't matter who we get until we start system based on
responsibilty and accountability (see MEssier, Theo, Low and Leetch).
--
Danny Clark
bPstyles
> The guy does backcheck, and does play d when needed, and he'll surprise
you
> when you least expect it and knock you flat on your ass (he is one of the
> strongest players pound for pound in the league....) 16 points in 9 games
> and people are still bitching and moaning.... he's put more on the table
the
> last 9 games than any Ranger has all season, and he's only been here 9
> games..... lay off and learn the game. 60 goal scorers come around once
in
> a blue moon; especially for nothing....
First, Doug, I agree with your last line in this paragraph and I usually
agree with most everything you say. However, I believe it is this attitude
with Pavel that allows him to start foregoing any defensive responsibility
until he is taken to task.
There is a monumental difference between playing defense and being able to
play defense. The Rangers defense, on a whole, is one of the most miserable
groups in the NHL, especially on the PK, which is inexcusable. However, if
you take a look at their roster, there is not excuse for it. These guys are
not lugs. However, because of all the high-priced, high-octane offense the
team as, their attitude sucks...much like I've found with Bure.
Like you said, I have seen Bure do things that nobody else can. I've never
seen anyone that can shoo from *anywhere* like him. I've seen him turn
simply 2 on 2's into short breakaways with his speed. He forechecks like a
maniac, so you know the hustle is there, but he backchecks when he wants to.
There should be no excuse. Pavel can expend half the energy to get back
down ice and he you wouldn't notice a thing. The prevailing opinion is that
he doesn't have to recover on the back-check because he is 60-goa Pavel does
not cut it. Even if he is a +50, as you put it.
Pavel may get his 60, but that attitude is contagious. This is why Sakic
and Forsberg sit around a bunch of winners in Colorado. Find me one play
where either of them took a play off. Just one (and don't say Forsberg has
taken the whole year off, lol!). They can/have scored 50+. The most
giften, skilled players are looked to by their teammates to lead them to
victory. I know they are all grown ups, and I ma not an NHL'er, but I
wouldn't say it is too far to assume that players emulate the stars of their
team.
Doug Patton
guys in NY saw it in the '94 finals (granted 8 years ago, but he does it
when it counts). I think next year we'll see a complete Bure, one who does
backcheck and take the body once and a while (God I hope I'm right) Guess
we've got all summer (and spring) to debate it ;)
Doug
"bPstyles" <tjlecav...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:ub43vug...@corp.supernews.com...
Danny Clark
<dpat...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Fair point, and in Vancouver I saw Bure play with that mentality, and you
> guys in NY saw it in the '94 finals (granted 8 years ago, but he does it
> when it counts). I think next year we'll see a complete Bure, one who does
> backcheck and take the body once and a while (God I hope I'm right) Guess
> we've got all summer (and spring) to debate it ;)
>
> Doug
Aint you the guy who said Ulanov was also complete? :-)
--
Danny Clark
Mr Tony Iommi
> news:QU2s8.27879$2j3.2...@news2.calgary.shaw.ca...
>
> > The guy does backcheck, and does play d when needed, and he'll surprise
> you
> > when you least expect it and knock you flat on your ass (he is one of the
> > strongest players pound for pound in the league....) 16 points in 9 games
> > and people are still bitching and moaning.... he's put more on the table
> the
> > last 9 games than any Ranger has all season, and he's only been here 9
> > games..... lay off and learn the game. 60 goal scorers come around once
> in
> > a blue moon; especially for nothing....
>
> First, Doug, I agree with your last line in this paragraph and I usually
> agree with most everything you say. However, I believe it is this attitude
> with Pavel that allows him to start foregoing any defensive responsibility
> until he is taken to task.
>
> There is a monumental difference between playing defense and being able to
> play defense. The Rangers defense, on a whole, is one of the most miserable
> groups in the NHL, especially on the PK, which is inexcusable. However, if
> you take a look at their roster, there is not excuse for it. These guys are
> not lugs. However, because of all the high-priced, high-octane offense the
> team as, their attitude sucks...much like I've found with Bure.
This is the exact reason why a ass-patting, Sather-puppet, "players"
coach like low was the worse possible leader for this team. I may have
understood it if he actually won with that style elsewhere, but he
didn't. Oh well, its over now but the most important offseason
acquisition Sather will make, IMO, is the new coach. BTW I was at the
game last nite and i actually seen Bure cover for a defensemen that
went deep and was trapped. And Lest we forget the two goals he scored,
which is the reason why he makes Millions, not his defense.
Mr Tony Iommi
Responsibility and accountability? Well if that means we need an on
ice stategy that didn't lose its effectiveness 15 years ago I agree.
Which means Sather got to hire a coach who doesnt agree with his
extinct x's and o's and will jump down these guys throats when they
don't execute the new system. And as far as players , yes we need some
guys who can work the boards (muckers) and we have to develop some
semblance of a checking line (grinders). I mean sure id like Guerin
too (your "power wing"), but that doesn't mean were gettin him.
And as far as the Messier thing: I agree, I think he should retire
to the golf course for a couple years, come back, maybe take an
assistant coach job, but unless u want Sathers head to roll, Marks
influence is gonna be sumthin we gotta live with.
Doug Patton
in Edmonton and Montreal.... I stand corrected on that one.... the nice
thing in this case though is that we didn;t SIGN Bure, we traded for him ;)
Doug
"Danny Clark" <mrp...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:mrpitt-0904...@ip24-56-46-60.ph.ph.cox.net...
Clifford Seifer
lack of a system on the part of the coach. The coach has to set
expectations. It's like a fucking free for all out there and you can't
blame the players for that.
See my recent thread about the impossiblity of finding a full roster full
of players of such exceptional attitude and character that they are able
to collectively play inspired, intelligent, responsible hockey in the
midst of the chaos that the coaches and management have created here in
New York.
Under the circumstances, I think some players have shown an incredible
attitude. Others are just average guys who look bad because there's no
externally imposed struture. And then there are some who need that
struture to keep from self destructing.
Kamensky had a bad attitude. From what I've seen and heard, Grosek has a
bad attitude. Most of the others are just in a difficult situation which
makes them look bad. Once we have a coach who implements a consistant
system and sets appropriate expectations we'll be able to judge for sure.
-- Cliff
"The wild monkeys are waiting on the road for the handout foods from
visitors. Monkeys get used to human, they don't run away when visitors
approach them. But they are wild monkey and dangerous, please do not get
close to them. "