'Click' together, but ...
eric_...@my-deja.com
After a 4 year hiatus from alt.romance, I'm back.
I am a frustrated guy. By nature, I'm an
idealist. In relationships, however, I've become
cynical. I can write about that at length, and I
probably will, but I'll pose just this question
for now about my current situation.
Background: This girl, I'll call her Tee, seems
to be just about everything I want, and I've
fallen for her hard. We've done nothing sexual or
even physical - her choice, and I respect it.
Otherwise, though, when we're together or just
talking on the phone, everything seems
to 'click'. We've spent as many as 21 consecutive
hours together, and seen 3 sunrises together
after all-nighters. I'd spend all my free time
with Tee if I could, and she's the first girl
I've met that I can honestly see myself together
with for a long time. I've tried to be my best
sincere self with her, and I've been honest about
everything. When Tee's with me, she seems
enthusiastic about spending time with me, and
even proposes get-togethers. When we're apart,
though, she never takes the initiative to see me,
and it's hard work almost every time to get us
back together. Seeing me is not a priority for
her and, sometimes, I've felt like I was
practically begging for her time. I've proposed a
deeper relationship already, was turned down, and
I agreed to hold myself to friendship, although I
did not back down from what I felt for her. I
decided and told her that having her in my life
was more important than my pride.
Here's the situation: 3 weeks ago, I had planned
an excursion for us. She seemed all for it, and I
prepared thoroughfully, but on the day of, she
stood me up. The upset I felt that day combined
with the history of one-sided effort I had with
her caused all of my swallowed pride to boil up.
I was angry and challenged her to make up the day
to me. For once, I wanted her to make the effort
for me. She said she wouldn't. In the past, I had
bridged all the gaps that came between us, but
this time, I told her the next move was hers. She
acknowledged that and hasn't talked to me since.
It's been a hard 3 weeks, and I'm confused. Like
I said, she seems to be everything I want and I
think we 'click' tremendously well - when we're
together. It feels very easy to be with her, and
she seems just as comfortable with me. I don't
know if I've done well, but I've done my best
with Tee.
My question: What is behind this disparity? What
happens when I'm not with her that I don't see
when we're together? I don't understand how she
can be so different when we're apart.
Right now, I think that I could bridge this gap,
but if I did that, things wouldn't change. I
don't trust her, and I won't accept that any
longer. I'm waiting for her to come through for
me, and it's not happening. It's hard.
I welcome all opinions. I need to understand.
Eric
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
The Revolution
Hi all,
After a 4 year hiatus from alt.romance, I'm back. I am a frustrated guy.
By nature, I'm an
idealist. In relationships, however, I've become cynical. I can write
about that at length, and I probably will, but I'll pose just this
question for now about my current situation.
<-------You have reason to be cynical. Women -- attractive ones, anyway
-- have a supply-and-demand edge which allows them to treat men like shit
and get away with it, and a societal bias in their favor which reinforces
it. Men are expected to not complain and to alter themselves and their
behavior to meet with the approval of women; good practical advice, but
it presumes that the women will use their power responsibility. Rarely
do they do this, and when they do they are quickly off the market. That
leaves you with attractive head cases and unattractive "nice" women who
expect you to give away most of the sexual pleasure you would experience
in your life.
Background: This girl, I'll call her Tee, seems to be just about
everything I want, and I've
fallen for her hard. We've done nothing sexual or even physical - her
choice, and I respect it. Otherwise, though, when we're together or just
talking on the phone, everything seems to 'click'. We've spent as many as
21 consecutive hours together, and seen 3 sunrises together after
all-nighters. I'd spend all my free time with Tee if I could, and she's
the first girl I've met that I can honestly see myself together with for
a long time. I've tried to be my best sincere self with her, and I've
been honest about
everything. When Tee's with me, she seems enthusiastic about spending
time with me, and even proposes get-togethers. When we're apart, though,
she never takes the initiative to see me, and it's hard work almost every
time to get us back together. Seeing me is not a priority for her and,
sometimes, I've felt like I was practically begging for her time. I've
proposed a deeper relationship already, was turned down, and I agreed to
hold myself to friendship, although I did not back down from what I felt
for her. I
decided and told her that having her in my life was more important than
my pride.
<------We have two problems here: the first is that you are trying for a
relationship when she's not interested; the belief that if she sees how
**you feel about her** she will like you more can cloud your thinking.
Worry instead about how SHE FEELS ABOUT YOU. To change that, you need to
get inside her head in a way you haven't so far. The other problem here
is that you probably are a good man for her and she has issues with your
honesty; you're not going to provide the same level of "excitement" to
her as a liar can do, because you are restricted by truth.
Here's the situation: 3 weeks ago, I had planned an excursion for us. She
seemed all for it, and I prepared thoroughfully, but on the day of, she
stood me up. The upset I felt that day combined with the history of
one-sided effort I had with her caused all of my swallowed pride to boil
up. I was angry and challenged her to make up the day
to me. For once, I wanted her to make the effort for me. She said she
wouldn't. In the past, I had bridged all the gaps that came between us,
but this time, I told her the next move was hers. She acknowledged that
and hasn't talked to me since.
<---------Classic situation: you take a slight by her as a license to
demand something from her. While your response was correct, the anger
was not. A better idea would have been to cut her loose and NOT TELL HER
(one-and-done from my FREE books, listed below on my website). Women
respond better to BEHAVIOR than to words; if you had stopped talking to
her, she'd have gotten the message and come crawling back (Returning Fox
from "Outfoxing The Foxes" on my website below, again FREE). She still
might, but you are going to have to be PATIENT, and pursue other women,
even if your heart isn't in it. This will improve your chances with both
her and with the other women.
It's been a hard 3 weeks, and I'm confused. Like I said, she seems to be
everything I want and I think we 'click' tremendously well - when we're
together. It feels very easy to be with her, and she seems just as
comfortable with me. I don't know if I've done well, but I've done my
best with Tee.
<------You did fine cutting her off. No amount of feelings for her
justifies her treating you as a doormat, although you also have no right
to expect a sexual relationship with her, which it is obvious you are
pursuing. A good rule in this situation: if you ask, she'll bail out,
but if you STOP asking, she might reverse course.
My question: What is behind this disparity? What happens when I'm not
with her that I don't see when we're together? I don't understand how she
can be so different when we're apart.
<-----Read "29 Reasons" on my website for a better explanation. Sounds
to me like she's either a Secret Slut (Reason #15), OR you are
overlooking some major attitude problems in her, perhaps because you are
blinded by her looks. It sounds like the type of man she responds to
sexually is one who sees through her and treats her a bit bad.
Otherwise, what would stop her from hooking up with you? At the very
least, you could use a woman like this as a pivot to attract other women.
Part of becoming a perfect seducer is instinctively knowing where to fit
the women into your life. A woman like this I would use as a pivot, and
maybe let her know a few months down the road. This would piss her off
because she'd realize she wasn't using me, but the other way around, and
cause her to treat me with more respect. If this behavior in women
bothers you, it's time to rethink your opinion of women because MOST of
them (most of the sexy ones, anyway) engage in it. Many who blindly
defend women remind me of a cat owner with 300 scratch marks on her face
swearing up and down that Furball is just the SWEETEST LITTLE ANGEL.....
Right now, I think that I could bridge this gap, but if I did that,
things wouldn't change. I
don't trust her, and I won't accept that any longer. I'm waiting for her
to come through for
me, and it's not happening. It's hard.
<-------What you are doing is correct. You're better off alone than
being walked on by her.
I welcome all opinions. I need to understand.
<-------Try my books for a more thorough explanation, but for here and
now I will just say that you are trying to push a relationship out of a
friendship, going about it the wrong way (indirect seduction is your best
bet, not direct), plus you haven't given much thought to SEDUCING HER,
and instead seem to think she will just logically arrive at the
conclusion one day that you are the right man for her. That won't
happen.
The Seduction Library: THREE FREE Books On How To Find The Ideal Lover
http://www.cybersheet.com/library.html
The Revolution! FREE Football Selections (3-1 this year so far); also
offshore info
http://www.cybersheet.com/sportpix.html
________________________________________________________________
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Nunya
for a committed relationship and doesn't know how to tell you (i.e. doesn't
want to hurt you). Something seems to be going on that she's not telling
you.
The one thing I do know is that you shouldn't fold. If she were truly
interested then she would've contacted you by now. If you cave in after
she's stood you up then she'll never have respect for you. I wouldn't be
surprised at all if when she is ready for a relationship she comes looking
for you. You'll be the one that will stick out in her mind as not being an
asshole but not taking any shit from her either. If she doesn't end up
respecting you for it then she's not someone you'd want a serious
relationship with anyway IMHO.
Most women want someone they can respect that doesn't let them walk all over
them, but it doesn't mean they go for assholes (as some here will try to
tell you). They look for strength of character and consistency, which you
seem to have. I know it hurts now, but time will lessen that. Hopefully it
will just turn out to be a thing of "right person, wrong time", and she'll
come around sooner or later.
Good luck :)
-Shell
<eric_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8oqup3$e2u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
The Revolution
I don't know your ages, but it's entirely possible that she's just not
ready
for a committed relationship and doesn't know how to tell you (i.e.
doesn't
want to hurt you). Something seems to be going on that she's not telling
you.
<----Namely, his nice demeanor repulses her, causes her to chop his cock
off in her mind....
The one thing I do know is that you shouldn't fold. If she were truly
interested then she would've contacted you by now. If you cave in after
she's stood you up then she'll never have respect for you. I wouldn't be
surprised at all if when she is ready for a relationship she comes
looking
for you. You'll be the one that will stick out in her mind as not being
an
asshole but not taking any shit from her either. If she doesn't end up
respecting you for it then she's not someone you'd want a serious
relationship with anyway IMHO.
<-----------This is an UGLY self-fulfilling prophecy: a woman acts like a
bitch to repel a guy she doesn't like, and then she acts nice to the guy
she wants. To the guy she didn't want, she was a bitch not worth having,
and to the guy she does want, she's an angel from heaven? Get real.
Most women want someone they can respect that doesn't let them walk all
over
them, but it doesn't mean they go for assholes (as some here will try to
tell you).
<---------Read ASF for the constant lay reports posted by the assholes
(who failed when they were nice men) for more insight. Another thing:
how does a woman tell if a man won't let her walk all over him unless she
TRIES, UNPROVOKED, to walk all over him? This is called a SHIT TEST and
it's pretty shitty behavior; a man who gives them is thought to be a jerk
who blew his chance, while the woman is saying "I'm going to treat you
like crap and if you take it I will walk away, but if you put me in my
place I'll beg for you forgiveness." There is NO more clear way of
rewarding a jerk than this.
They look for strength of character and consistency, which you seem to
have.
<------Treating someone like SHIT is NOT the way to test for character.
Perhaps women might want to take a glance at their relationship failure
percentages and *maybe* connect the behavior? Just some advice.....
I know it hurts now, but time will lessen that. Hopefully it will just
turn out to be a thing of "right person, wrong time", and she'll come
around sooner or later.
<--------Why should he have to wait when he can just become an ASF-style
player and get what he wants NOW? Platitudes of **MAYBE** finding
happiness one day is the worst way to string a man along. I just cut
loose an ADULT ENTERTAINER who was treating me like a KING -- **ALMOST**
-- and time was I would have been satisfied being one of a stable of men
she flirted with (she is an AWESOME erotic hypnotist, trained by me, and
was generous with her work, but even then she still had to be cut loose).
I was in the position of **maybe** having something happen, but if I had
waited, I'd be waiting too long. Maybe she'll change her tune and want
me in her life but I sure won't wait for her.
Posts like this make it very difficult not to root for the ASF players to
feed every line of b/s to women to get into their pants. While he was
sincerely interested in her, odds are some ASF-type jerk was out there
getting into her pants in minutes or hours, while he is being told to
wait months. Women who see nothing wrong with this reward system deserve
nothing but players in their lives. They are sending a CLEAR message to
men to become them.
Remember, laides, he CAN get sex. All he has to do is learn to drop his
"good" qualities. Are you prepared to GIVE HIM SEX to keep him nice or
should he follow the ASF stampede and get with the program of what women
claim not to want, but which they reward on a CONSTANT basis? The choice
is yours, ladies.....telling him it's wrong to become a player won't wash
very well when he realizes it's also wrong to reward players. Appeals to
conscience from a rattlesnake aren't very convincing.
Nunya
I'm almost proud of you!
btw, found an admin position yet?
To Eric: Meet Ray, resident AR and ASF kook and all around great guy!
*tongue FIRMLY planted in cheek*
"The Revolution" <the________...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:20000902.104034.-350975....@juno.com...
> Someone Writes:
>
> Most women want someone they can respect that doesn't let them walk all
> over
> them, but it doesn't mean they go for assholes (as some here will try to
> tell you).
>
> <---------Read ASF for the constant lay reports posted by the assholes
> (who failed when they were nice men) for more insight. Another thing:
> how does a woman tell if a man won't let her walk all over him unless she
> TRIES, UNPROVOKED, to walk all over him? This is called a SHIT TEST and
> it's pretty shitty behavior; a man who gives them is thought to be a jerk
> who blew his chance, while the woman is saying "I'm going to treat you
> like crap and if you take it I will walk away, but if you put me in my
> place I'll beg for you forgiveness." There is NO more clear way of
> rewarding a jerk than this.
>
*sigh* There's the total lack of comprehension of serious relationships
again... Ray, he was apparently looking for more than a lay. Why do you
seem so incapable of posting your responses on that basis?
If he were interested in just 'seducing' her and getting laid, then he
would've posted it to ASF in the first place. Why are you bothering to
bring up ASF when he didn't cross post it to there?
>
> They look for strength of character and consistency, which you seem to
> have.
>
> <------Treating someone like SHIT is NOT the way to test for character.
> Perhaps women might want to take a glance at their relationship failure
> percentages and *maybe* connect the behavior? Just some advice.....
>
And just how good is your relationship success rate Ray? Honestly? I've
been with the same man for 3 years. Have you EVER lived with or been in
love with someone, let alone had them love you?
>
> I know it hurts now, but time will lessen that. Hopefully it will just
> turn out to be a thing of "right person, wrong time", and she'll come
> around sooner or later.
>
> <--------Why should he have to wait when he can just become an ASF-style
> player and get what he wants NOW? Platitudes of **MAYBE** finding
> happiness one day is the worst way to string a man along. I just cut
> loose an ADULT ENTERTAINER who was treating me like a KING -- **ALMOST**
> -- and time was I would have been satisfied being one of a stable of men
> she flirted with (she is an AWESOME erotic hypnotist, trained by me, and
> was generous with her work, but even then she still had to be cut loose).
> I was in the position of **maybe** having something happen, but if I had
> waited, I'd be waiting too long. Maybe she'll change her tune and want
> me in her life but I sure won't wait for her.
blah blah blah Ray, he didn't say he was looking to get laid. He said he
was wanting a serious relationship with her. That means falling in love and
having it reciprocated. Some people on the earth are looking for something
just a little more profound than a wet spot to put their dicks. :/ I'll
agree that he shouldn't wait for her, all I said was not to be surprised if
she comes back around sooner or later.
>
> Posts like this make it very difficult not to root for the ASF players to
> feed every line of b/s to women to get into their pants. While he was
> sincerely interested in her, odds are some ASF-type jerk was out there
> getting into her pants in minutes or hours, while he is being told to
> wait months. Women who see nothing wrong with this reward system deserve
> nothing but players in their lives. They are sending a CLEAR message to
> men to become them.
>
> Remember, laides, he CAN get sex. All he has to do is learn to drop his
> "good" qualities. Are you prepared to GIVE HIM SEX to keep him nice or
> should he follow the ASF stampede and get with the program of what women
> claim not to want, but which they reward on a CONSTANT basis? The choice
> is yours, ladies.....telling him it's wrong to become a player won't wash
> very well when he realizes it's also wrong to reward players. Appeals to
> conscience from a rattlesnake aren't very convincing.
>
That's interesting. Ask the guys in here who ARE in serious relationships
how often they get some when they're being jerks to their SOs. Most women
who are in a love relationship won't just drop their clothes when their man
is being an asshole. That isn't "rewarding" nice behavior. That's called
being in the mood because the man is treating her as he should.
You would be doing a great favor to everyone (mostly yourself) if you could
refrain from judging all others based on your own emotional yardstick.
*snippage of unethical use of free service to promote 'pamphlets'*
The Revolution
To Ray: I think that's a record...you stayed away for almost a week Ray!
<----That's longer than almost every poster here. Never mind that I've
been posting, just preparing for the NFL season and finishing up a VERY
successful Saratoga meet (second year in a row as the top public
handicapper in the country unless someone can find a better one, not
likely). Another thing: since threats against me are involved, any
references to my posting here or not could involve you in a malicious
censorship mess you probably don't want to get involved in. I post here
at MY whim and no one else's. Get that clear or you could wind up
regretting your position.
I'm almost proud of you! btw, found an admin position yet?
<----------No, still flooding the EEOC with complaints, though I'm going
to add the condition that ONE job in accordance with my skills will cause
me to remove ALL my complaints (but one, where they'd have to pay a
fraction of back lost wages), just to eliminate the argument that I'm out
to make money suing. It's pretty sad, actually, that people are so
inhumane they actually root for discrimination. It pretty much proves
what I've been saying all along about the selfishness in our society.
When the cases are done I'll have my justice, thanks to the Supreme
Court, which made it easier to prove discrimination (you no longer need a
"smoking gun").
To Eric: Meet Ray, resident AR and ASF kook and all around great guy!
*tongue FIRMLY planted in cheek*
<--------Can't let someone make up their own mind? At least I responded
directly to his posting.
> Most women want someone they can respect that doesn't let them walk all
> over
> them, but it doesn't mean they go for assholes (as some here will try
to
> tell you).
>
> <---------Read ASF for the constant lay reports posted by the assholes
> (who failed when they were nice men) for more insight. Another thing:
> how does a woman tell if a man won't let her walk all over him unless
she
> TRIES, UNPROVOKED, to walk all over him? This is called a SHIT TEST
and
> it's pretty shitty behavior; a man who gives them is thought to be a
jerk
> who blew his chance, while the woman is saying "I'm going to treat you
> like crap and if you take it I will walk away, but if you put me in my
> place I'll beg for you forgiveness." There is NO more clear way of
> rewarding a jerk than this.
>
*sigh* There's the total lack of comprehension of serious relationships
again... Ray, he was apparently looking for more than a lay. Why do
you
seem so incapable of posting your responses on that basis?
<---------I wasn't. What I was saying was that the woman in question
didn't give a shit that he was looking for an LTR and being above-board
with her, and if anything, was PUNISHING him for it. When can you get it
through your head that WOMEN make these rules. Why would she blow him
off and not make it up to him? That was just plain RUDE. If she likes
spending so much time with the man, and doesn't want him for a boyfriend,
the only logical conclusion is that she's not sexually attracted to him.
But why? Many, MANY men (many of whom post to ASF) point out that when
they become "jerks" the women suddenly want to change them back. If you
have the SAME MAN using two attitudes and succeeding with the evil one,
the only logical conclusion there is that women reward jerk behavior. As
for myself, I am seeking an LTR and comprehend them just fine. Well
enough in fact to know that his previous strategy of getting one with a
woman he **TRULY** likes (isn't that how it's supposed to work?) was not
working. Why do we insist on promising every man that he's going to hit
the love lottery? Are you willing to make good that promise if he
doesn't? Of course not. Problem is, ASF will get him a woman like that,
even TEN women like that, and they will be lays to him, but many will
want relationships with him. Why should he stay a nice guy if women are
going to punish him for it?
If he were interested in just 'seducing' her and getting laid, then he
would've posted it to ASF in the first place. Why are you bothering to
bring up ASF when he didn't cross post it to there?
<------Because he needs to learn why the men from ASF are stealing women
like this from right out under his nose. I recommended he learn how to
become a player because then women will want to change him back. What
part of this do you not understand?
> They look for strength of character and consistency, which you seem to
> have.
>
> <------Treating someone like SHIT is NOT the way to test for character.
> Perhaps women might want to take a glance at their relationship failure
> percentages and *maybe* connect the behavior? Just some advice.....
>
And just how good is your relationship success rate Ray? Honestly?
<------You'd call it fiction if I posted it, so why bother? I'd say no
divorces at my age makes me more successful than approximately 35 percent
of men, and another 30 percent who are trapped in bad marriages. Would
you agree with at least that much? Do I have to parade my lovers now to
be taken seriously? I could arrange to have live sex on the internet if
you would need me to, but again why bother? Other men do well with my
methods, and that's the point of posting here. Given what I have to work
with, I do exceptionally well with women. Most men would crumble under
even one of my disadvantages, let alone all of them.
I've been with the same man for 3 years. Have you EVER lived with or
been in
love with someone, let alone had them love you?
<---------Love is a subjective term. There are times I've thought I
loved women, and maybe I did. NUMEROUS women have professed love for me
for reasons so illogical it made me want to puke. Being with a man for
three years means little in and of itself. Want me to AUDIT your
relationship and see what I see? What does any of this have to do with
the man's posting? I told him that ASF will teach him how to get the
women he wants, and it will. My books will do this as well, and they are
FREE. What do you have to offer this man that competes with the sex AND
the relationships he is practically GUARANTEED of finding if he adopts
their methods? Platitudes don't cut it.
> I know it hurts now, but time will lessen that. Hopefully it will just
> turn out to be a thing of "right person, wrong time", and she'll come
> around sooner or later.
>
> <--------Why should he have to wait when he can just become an
ASF-style
> player and get what he wants NOW? Platitudes of **MAYBE** finding
> happiness one day is the worst way to string a man along. I just cut
> loose an ADULT ENTERTAINER who was treating me like a KING --
**ALMOST**
> -- and time was I would have been satisfied being one of a stable of
men
> she flirted with (she is an AWESOME erotic hypnotist, trained by me,
and
> was generous with her work, but even then she still had to be cut
loose).
> I was in the position of **maybe** having something happen, but if I
had
> waited, I'd be waiting too long. Maybe she'll change her tune and want
> me in her life but I sure won't wait for her.
blah blah blah Ray, he didn't say he was looking to get laid. He said
he
was wanting a serious relationship with her.
<-----Which involves sex, does it not? You still don't get it......
That means falling in love and having it reciprocated.
<-----He fell in love. It wasn't reciprocated. Why would she ignore his
TRUE feelings? Obviously she doesn't appreciate him very much. The next
question is who is she fucking and why? Think it's such a SPIRITUAL
decision on her part, or the result of stuck-up games? I'd almost
certainly bet the latter. Let's ask the guy and see what he says.
Some people on the earth are looking for something just a little more
profound than a wet spot to put their dicks. :/
<-----Correct. I am one of those people. However, the best way to find
even that is STILL to become an ASF-style player. Read the postings
there: the women these men lay don't leave them alone, and want to tame
them into relationships!!
I'll agree that he shouldn't wait for her, all I said was not to be
surprised if
she comes back around sooner or later.
<-------That's called the Returning Fox theory (mine, thanks).
<--------Better yet, ask the women when their EX-Boyfriends got
laid.....or are women now making up all those tales of what they endured
in their relationships with jerks while nice men like this were sitting
on the sidelines?
Most women who are in a love relationship won't just drop their clothes
when their man
is being an asshole.
<-----Now you know why men cheat.......uneven scoring....his sins are
remembered, hers must be forgotten...wait 6-8 months and you have a
lopsided scorecard. If she doesn't have sex with him, other women
will....sad, but true. I must say the world you paint is very
pleasant....too bad it bears little resemblance to what goes on in this
one. If your depiction were accurate, she would see how much he loved
her and return his feelings. Another problem is that women call men
assholes for many reasons, not all of them valid.
That isn't "rewarding" nice behavior. That's called being in the mood
because the man is treating her as he should.
<--------You mean kissing her ass? Give me a break.
You would be doing a great favor to everyone (mostly yourself) if you
could
refrain from judging all others based on your own emotional yardstick.
<-------Who says I'm doing that? I've been studying this stuff for
almost TWENTY YEARS.....it's the same crap over and over again. Want the
most proof that I'm right and you're wrong? Why do the jerks of ASF have
DOZENS of beautiful women over them, while guys like this are ignored?
If what you said were true, his biggest problem would be fighting off 100
women, not begging ONE....give me a break.
*snippage of unethical use of free service to promote 'pamphlets'*
<-------It's not unethical.....it's a challenge to TOS......civil
disobedience.....
tjho...@seexbelow.com
> Some Guy Writes:
> Hi all,
> After a 4 year hiatus from alt.romance, I'm back. I am a frustrated guy.
> By nature, I'm an
> idealist. In relationships, however, I've become cynical. I can write
> about that at length, and I probably will, but I'll pose just this
> question for now about my current situation.
> <-------You have reason to be cynical. Women -- attractive ones, anyway
> -- have a supply-and-demand edge which allows them to treat men like shit
> and get away with it, and a societal bias in their favor which reinforces
> it. Men are expected to not complain and to alter themselves and their
> behavior to meet with the approval of women; good practical advice, but
> it presumes that the women will use their power responsibility. Rarely
> do they do this, and when they do they are quickly off the market. That
> leaves you with attractive head cases and unattractive "nice" women who
> expect you to give away most of the sexual pleasure you would experience
> in your life.
Women who are both attractive and nice do exist, but they get snatched
up early. If you survey 25-year-old single women, sure a lot of them
are screwed-up head-cases, because a disproportionate number of the
"good ones" are already taken. By the same token, women might think
all guys over 30 just want to get laid, which is probably the case
because the desirable men who want committed relationships are largely
already in them.
--
TJ
*** Email replies use: TJHOOVER -at- BIGFOOT -dot- COM
The Revolution
> <-------You have reason to be cynical. Women -- attractive ones,
anyway
> -- have a supply-and-demand edge which allows them to treat men like
shit
> and get away with it, and a societal bias in their favor which
reinforces
> it. Men are expected to not complain and to alter themselves and their
> behavior to meet with the approval of women; good practical advice, but
> it presumes that the women will use their power responsibility. Rarely
> do they do this, and when they do they are quickly off the market.
That
> leaves you with attractive head cases and unattractive "nice" women who
> expect you to give away most of the sexual pleasure you would
experience
> in your life.
Women who are both attractive and nice do exist, but they get snatched up
early.
<------Or they back off entirely and turn lesbian.
If you survey 25-year-old single women, sure a lot of them are screwed-up
head-cases, because a disproportionate number of the "good ones" are
already taken.
<-------You're assuming that people know how to find good partners. Many
attractive, nice women are out there worshipping liars.
By the same token, women might think all guys over 30 just want to get
laid, which is probably the case because the desirable men who want
committed relationships are largely already in them.
<-------Actually, the majority of men who want relationships are NOT in
them. Most "desirable" men are like Bill Clinton, keeping several women
off the market at one time (even if they are married), and making life
miserable for the man who posted.
I'll say it again: if he's such a great catch, why aren't women beating a
path to his door? Ever see how women act when they want something?
Obviously, what he has is something they don't want. But because he's
"nice" the women here don't want to attack him as a loser who can't get
laid, who is undesirable to women, because in his case they don't want
that to be true. The funny thing is that they reserve such attacks for
men like Aaron or me who really don't have to suffer in that department,
but because they don't WANT us to succeed, and because they want him to
succeed, they put truth on the backburner and try to tell the man there
is nothing wrong with him, even when in other postings they cite the lack
of a visible woman as a sign of a man being repulsive.
Courageous
> <-------You're assuming that people know how to find good partners. Many
> attractive, nice women are out there worshipping liars.
A misfortunate fact.
C//
The Revolution
> <----That's longer than almost every poster here.
But then we don't go on and on about how everyone in the newsgroup will
follow us over to our website. So how did that pan out, kiddo?
<-----Quite well: 4-for-10 at Saratoga on Thursday, 2-for-10 yesterday,
profitable both days, 17 percent profit on every dollar bet for the meet,
with best-bet winners at odds of 9-2 and 6-1 the last two days,
respectively. Our ONE THOUSAND READERS A DAY who follow my picks were
very pleased. Last time I checked, the site is still getting hits.
> Get that clear or you could wind up
> regretting your position.
Oooooooh. The Big Bad Ray (tm) is thweatening someone again. Oooooh.
<-------My posting here should not be a concern of anyone's but me. If
it is, it raises questions. Though I have to wonder about how obsessed
someone can be that they'd even notice or care who posts here or how
often.
I'll say it again: the way people treat me here proves beyond all doubt
that my assessment of (in)humanity is correct. Every man for himself,
respect through fear and fear alone (if people feared me they wouldn't
dare cross me, so instilling proper fear of legal retribution is
essential, even if suing is required), people not caring if you live or
die, etc. What did I miss? Seems I read people right on the
money.......the "you deserve it" defense doesn't cut it very much.
All I said before was that I wouldn't curse women out anymore. I'm
sticking to logical arguments now and assessing fines to women who
misbehave. If they don't want to talk to me again, they don't have to
pay....it's just a way of expressing my displeasure with some of them in
a more civilized fashion.
Funny how the WOMEN I talk to -- the ones who are HOT and whom I respect
-- have no problem with me. And if they don't, why should I care if you
or anyone else does? With all due disrespect, you're not my
type......people who point to popularity in a debate setting are so lame
it's not even funny.
Jake Thomson
I feel your pain. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to
prove it. Here's my take on your situation.
Tee has zero interest in you. As far as she's concerned,
you're simply a wallet with legs who will buy her stuff.
It's the old milk and cow routine. Why should she buy the
cow - show an interest in you/have sex with you, when she
can get the milk - entertainment & good times at no cost to
her - for free?
She likes the goodies you're willing to provide and she's
quite happy to exploit you. But, obviously, she doesn't give
a flying fuck about you as a person or, apparantly as a
potential partner either. You're a chump, a sucker, a mark
and a zero as far as she's concerned. Now that you're out of
her life, she has dozens of suckers just like you to pick
from. Keep in mind that for women, sex is a choice. For guys
it's a chore. She definitely made a choice, and it wasn't
you. Sorry pal, them's the breaks.
So dump her, don't make a big deal out of it. Just tear up
her number and walk. Don't call her again, EVER. If she
should call you - an action that's nearly as likely as the
Titanic sailing into New York harbor under it's own steam,
tell her you don't appreciate being treated like shit. OTOH,
don't sit by your phone breathlessly awaiting her call, she
won't.
The reason she won't call is simply because by now, she's
found some other sucker, or 6, to take your place and she's
stringing his/their ass(es) along. As if she didn't have
them on line already before she met you. Yeah, right. And
pigs fly . . .
In the preposterously unlikely event that Tee ever calls
you, tell her that if she wants to be in your life, she can
get up off her fat ass and show some interest in you. Say,
like come over, right now. Otherwise, she can just fuck off
and don't come back. Say this matter of factly, like you
don't care if she shows or not. Then hang up.
If she shows, great. If she doesn't? Like, what else is new?
She hasn't done squat for you to begin with.
Next time you find a girl that gets your motor running, go
ahead be nice to her, show her a good time, the first time.
Then make it clear if she wants the goodies, she has to pay.
If she won't pay your price for your time, dump her. Life's
too short to waste your time being interested in someone
who's not interested in you.
Oh, yeah, and one more thing. Go out, find and fuck 10 other
women. Then, and only then, make a decision if you really
want Tee back in your life and on what terms.
That's my opinion, but you're welcome to it.
eric_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
<snip of a 'there's this one girl (who played me like a
chump and then dumped my sorry ass) . . .' story>
--
Two guys are walking down the street.
The first guy walks into a bar, the second one ducks.
Visit my web page:
http://www.users.uswest.net/~jakethomson
jaket...@uswest.net
The Revolution
Eric,
I feel your pain. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove it.
Here's my take on your situation. Tee has zero interest in you. As far
as she's concerned, you're simply a wallet with legs who will buy her
stuff. It's the old milk and cow routine. Why should she buy the
cow - show an interest in you/have sex with you, when she can get the
milk - entertainment & good times at no cost to her - for free?
<--------Now how is it "woman-hating" to point out this rather OBVIOUS
behavior in the gender?
She likes the goodies you're willing to provide and she's quite happy to
exploit you. But, obviously, she doesn't give a flying fuck about you as
a person or, apparantly as a
potential partner either. You're a chump, a sucker, a mark and a zero as
far as she's concerned. Now that you're out of her life, she has dozens
of suckers just like you to pick
from. Keep in mind that for women, sex is a choice. For guys it's a
chore. She definitely made a choice, and it wasn't you. Sorry pal, them's
the breaks.
<----------For ATTRACTIVE women, sex is a choice. Don't forget the women
we men IGNORE.
So dump her, don't make a big deal out of it. Just tear up her number and
walk. Don't call her again, EVER. If she should call you - an action
that's nearly as likely as the
Titanic sailing into New York harbor under it's own steam, tell her you
don't appreciate being treated like shit. OTOH, don't sit by your phone
breathlessly awaiting her call, she
won't.
<--------One-and-done, explained in "Outfoxing The Foxes" on my website.
The reason she won't call is simply because by now, she's found some
other sucker, or 6, to take your place and she's stringing his/their
ass(es) along. As if she didn't have
them on line already before she met you. Yeah, right. And pigs fly . . .
<-----Actually, she's more likely to call him if he ignores her.
Returning Fox theory.
In the preposterously unlikely event that Tee ever calls you, tell her
that if she wants to be in your life, she can get up off her fat ass and
show some interest in you. Say,
like come over, right now. Otherwise, she can just fuck off and don't
come back. Say this matter of factly, like you don't care if she shows
or not. Then hang up.
<-------Returning Fox theory....got a post prior to October 29, 1998
which says anything similar? That's the date of the Copyright to
Foxes.....
If she shows, great. If she doesn't? Like, what else is new? She hasn't
done squat for you to begin with.
<--------More Returning Fox theory, quoted by one of my critics, of
course....
Next time you find a girl that gets your motor running, go ahead be nice
to her, show her a good time, the first time. Then make it clear if she
wants the goodies, she has to pay.
If she won't pay your price for your time, dump her. Life's too short to
waste your time being interested in someone who's not interested in you.
<-------Withdrawal of utility, also in "Outfoxing The Foxes...."
Oh, yeah, and one more thing. Go out, find and fuck 10 other women. Then,
and only then, make a decision if you really want Tee back in your life
and on what terms.
<--------This "fuck 10 other women" advice is humorous. The ONE woman a
guy winds up wanting will often be lost while he's out chasing the other
ten.....
Realpch
[snip]
>I'll say it again: the way people treat me here proves beyond all doubt
>that my assessment of (in)humanity is correct. Every man for himself,
>respect through fear and fear alone (if people feared me they wouldn't
>dare cross me, so instilling proper fear of legal retribution is
>essential, even if suing is required), people not caring if you live or
>die, etc. What did I miss? Seems I read people right on the
>money.......the "you deserve it" defense doesn't cut it very much.
Certainly this is a conclusion that many people arrive at in life. But since it
is a very extreme view, it is likely to be off the mark in many situations,
just as thinking that everything is sweetness and light is apt to be off the
mark. Adopting fixed and extreme viewpoints seems to limit our ability to
accurately judge what is going on around us. In short, the conclusion you have
reached may not be your very best survival strategy in the long run.
Peach
Nunya
> Someone Writes:
>
> To Ray: I think that's a record...you stayed away for almost a week Ray!
>
> <----That's longer than almost every poster here. Never mind that I've
> been posting, just preparing for the NFL season and finishing up a VERY
> successful Saratoga meet (second year in a row as the top public
> handicapper in the country unless someone can find a better one, not
> likely). Another thing: since threats against me are involved, any
> references to my posting here or not could involve you in a malicious
> censorship mess you probably don't want to get involved in. I post here
> at MY whim and no one else's. Get that clear or you could wind up
> regretting your position.
You were the one who said you were leaving. (You've done it before too.)
To put it in a way you should understand...there are times (IMHO) you seem
like a bad case of herpes...you always come back.
As for attempting to drag me into court, go right ahead and try Ray.
However take note that I'm not a Pennsylvania resident, never have been, and
not subject to their jurisdiction. I've made no threats against you
whatsoever. I've never even called you a name although you felt free to
call me a **** simply because I disagreed politely with your opinion. And
I've never told you to "go away" or anything of the sort. Expressing my
personal feelings that I wouldn't be sorry in the least if you did leave the
group and stay away is hardly illegal. Heck even if I ever did tell you
flat out to go away it would not be illegal or enforceable. So why would I
bother?
>
>
>
> I'm almost proud of you! btw, found an admin position yet?
>
> <----------No, still flooding the EEOC with complaints, though I'm going
> to add the condition that ONE job in accordance with my skills will cause
> me to remove ALL my complaints (but one, where they'd have to pay a
> fraction of back lost wages), just to eliminate the argument that I'm out
> to make money suing. It's pretty sad, actually, that people are so
> inhumane they actually root for discrimination. It pretty much proves
> what I've been saying all along about the selfishness in our society.
> When the cases are done I'll have my justice, thanks to the Supreme
> Court, which made it easier to prove discrimination (you no longer need a
> "smoking gun").
God you are so full of it. A chance at a position in your "line of work"
and in a good company was offered to you and you chose to ignore it. After
that I have no reason whatsoever to buy into any of your lines about your
lack of chances for employment due to discrimination.
>
>
>
>
> To Eric: Meet Ray, resident AR and ASF kook and all around great guy!
> *tongue FIRMLY planted in cheek*
>
> <--------Can't let someone make up their own mind? At least I responded
> directly to his posting.
As did I. You were the one who choose to comment on my post. As he appears
to be new to the group I felt it polite to introduce my favorite joke. :D
I understand that your true motivation for the constant mentions of ASF and
your website appear to be to promote your "book". Can't you get a real
publisher interested in it?
>
>
> > They look for strength of character and consistency, which you seem to
> > have.
> >
> > <------Treating someone like SHIT is NOT the way to test for character.
> > Perhaps women might want to take a glance at their relationship failure
> > percentages and *maybe* connect the behavior? Just some advice.....
> >
>
> And just how good is your relationship success rate Ray? Honestly?
>
> <------You'd call it fiction if I posted it, so why bother? I'd say no
> divorces at my age makes me more successful than approximately 35 percent
> of men, and another 30 percent who are trapped in bad marriages. Would
> you agree with at least that much? Do I have to parade my lovers now to
> be taken seriously? I could arrange to have live sex on the internet if
> you would need me to, but again why bother? Other men do well with my
> methods, and that's the point of posting here. Given what I have to work
> with, I do exceptionally well with women. Most men would crumble under
> even one of my disadvantages, let alone all of them.
>
>
>
> I've been with the same man for 3 years. Have you EVER lived with or
> been in
> love with someone, let alone had them love you?
>
> <---------Love is a subjective term. There are times I've thought I
> loved women, and maybe I did. NUMEROUS women have professed love for me
> for reasons so illogical it made me want to puke. Being with a man for
> three years means little in and of itself. Want me to AUDIT your
> relationship and see what I see?
LOL! I'd have to say that answers my question without answering it. You've
"met" my SO, go ahead and 'audit' my relationship if you like. :) At least
I have one.
What does any of this have to do with
> the man's posting? I told him that ASF will teach him how to get the
> women he wants, and it will. My books will do this as well, and they are
> FREE. What do you have to offer this man that competes with the sex AND
> the relationships he is practically GUARANTEED of finding if he adopts
> their methods? Platitudes don't cut it.
>
Yes, there are women that behave as you state. But hardly all or even a
majority. And those that do are usually in their teens or 20s and still
quite immature. Most good men avoid relationships with women like those for
reasons you are apparently not equipped to comprehend.
Why would it be his business who else she might've been fucking? If she had
been sleeping with him or telling him she loved him it would be another
matter. As it stands I don't see how. She enjoyed his company, it doesn't
mean she wanted to fall in love. And yes, it could've been just a game to
her. Or it possibly was a matter that his seriousness was "scaring her off"
and that she felt it wrong to sleep with him knowing his feelings.
>
> Some people on the earth are looking for something just a little more
> profound than a wet spot to put their dicks. :/
>
> <-----Correct. I am one of those people. However, the best way to find
> even that is STILL to become an ASF-style player. Read the postings
> there: the women these men lay don't leave them alone, and want to tame
> them into relationships!!
>
Question is: why would a good man want a relationship with a woman like
that? There are a great number of women out there who DON'T behave in that
manner. Those are the ones men who are truly interested in serious
relationships are trying to find. And a good man can find and "catch" them.
Someone with your view of life is going to have an incredibly difficult
time, because no woman worth her salt would tolerate you for long, let alone
give you sex.
>
> I'll agree that he shouldn't wait for her, all I said was not to be
> surprised if
> she comes back around sooner or later.
>
> <-------That's called the Returning Fox theory (mine, thanks).
Never read it. Are you accusing me of plagiarizing you?
If you ask any of my ex's they'd probably complain about me giving it up
less and less as their behavior got worse. Asshole behavior hardly puts a
woman in the mood (at least most women that is).
>
> Most women who are in a love relationship won't just drop their clothes
> when their man
> is being an asshole.
>
> <-----Now you know why men cheat.......uneven scoring....his sins are
> remembered, hers must be forgotten...wait 6-8 months and you have a
> lopsided scorecard. If she doesn't have sex with him, other women
> will....sad, but true. I must say the world you paint is very
> pleasant....too bad it bears little resemblance to what goes on in this
> one. If your depiction were accurate, she would see how much he loved
> her and return his feelings. Another problem is that women call men
> assholes for many reasons, not all of them valid.
>
If a man is acting like an ass, not getting any because of it, and ends up
cheating so he can get it elsewhere....a woman with any brains is going to
leave him. However, there are many men who don't cheat, even when not
getting any, for whatever reason. Don't bother trying to say I'm being
naive. I've been the route of being cheated on, so I know the ropes. But I
also know a truly good man that is truly in love will not necessarily cheat.
He'll revert his behavior back to what it was that caused her to fall in
love with him in the first place. It goes both ways though. For example,
if I'm acting like a bitch I don't expect Jason to give it up at the drop of
a hat. I know I'm going to have to be the person he loves for him to be
willing.
>
>
> That isn't "rewarding" nice behavior. That's called being in the mood
> because the man is treating her as he should.
>
> <--------You mean kissing her ass? Give me a break.
>
You have a really narrow and bitter view of the world don't you?
> You would be doing a great favor to everyone (mostly yourself) if you
> could
> refrain from judging all others based on your own emotional yardstick.
>
> <-------Who says I'm doing that? I've been studying this stuff for
> almost TWENTY YEARS.....it's the same crap over and over again. Want the
> most proof that I'm right and you're wrong? Why do the jerks of ASF have
> DOZENS of beautiful women over them, while guys like this are ignored?
> If what you said were true, his biggest problem would be fighting off 100
> women, not begging ONE....give me a break.
>
Could it possibly be because they don't really have all these "dozens of
beautiful women" falling all over them in reality and just want their
buddies to think they do? That's a routine I personally have seen many many
times. An interesting fact, one male friend of mine who used to get laid at
will by most any woman he wanted never bragged at all about it. The only
reason I ever knew was because I was one of his "drinking buddies" and saw
the women flocking on him. Another interesting fact, he wasn't a "jerk" to
those few women who weren't interested in him. He treated them with the
same courtesy and respect he would treat his mother with.
>
> *snippage of unethical use of free service to promote 'pamphlets'*
>
> <-------It's not unethical.....it's a challenge to TOS......civil
> disobedience.....
>
I find it unethical because you're having to electronically "sign" to
agreement of those terms when you have every intention of breaking them.
Personally I can make money without resorting to unethical use of another
company's hard work or civil disobedience.
The Revolution
>I'll say it again: the way people treat me here proves beyond all doubt
>that my assessment of (in)humanity is correct. Every man for himself,
>respect through fear and fear alone (if people feared me they wouldn't
>dare cross me, so instilling proper fear of legal retribution is
>essential, even if suing is required), people not caring if you live or
>die, etc. What did I miss? Seems I read people right on the
>money.......the "you deserve it" defense doesn't cut it very much.
Certainly this is a conclusion that many people arrive at in life. But
since it
is a very extreme view, it is likely to be off the mark in many
situations,
just as thinking that everything is sweetness and light is apt to be off
the
mark.
<------Wrong. The only time it's NOT true is when someone goes out of
their way not to upset anyone's applecart. Friendship based on that
condition isn't friendship, and people get a little too full of
themselves about their perceived rights, like their alleged right not to
read offensive comments on usenet, and their other perceived right to
speak for "everyone" when breaking the law in retaliation. I hope you
realize, Krusty spoke for you earlier. I konw he did because anything
short of confronting behavior like that is siding with it. I have no
need for apathetic whiners who can't stand the idea that I might get
pissed when people break the law against me.
Adopting fixed and extreme viewpoints seems to limit our ability to
accurately judge what is going on around us. In short, the conclusion you
have
reached may not be your very best survival strategy in the long run.
<--------Although sweeping under the rug conduct you'd rather not
confront may very well be yours. As for my survival, I wouldn't
recommend you take such a dim view of it. Such a view might seriously
come back to haunt you in the long run.
In other words, stay the fuck out of my business unless you want to find
yourself in the middle of it. I have very good reason to see the world
as I do, namely because THIS IS HOW THE WORLD IS. People attack me
acting like that's going to change things; it's not. As I've already
proven, anyone who wants to influence my behavior in the way you are
trying to with words is going to have to commit an awful lot of felonies
to accomplish their goal.
Do you understand what the word FELONY means? I suggest you look it up.
If you choose to make nice with people who commit FELONIES, that's your
perogative. I choose another path.
Stop judging MY refrigerator on the basis of whether or not it has YOUR
favorite food. Talk is VERY cheap.....
Eric Chen
> I'll say it again: if he's such a great catch, why aren't women
beating a
> path to his door? Ever see how women act when they want something?
About how women act when they want something, I have a story about
that. This is just one girl, but the experience stands out to me
because of how almost farcical stereotypically it ran its course. In
AIT (Advanced Individual Training for you non-Army folks), this girl,
I'll call her H, asked me to sit with her one day at lunch. For about
the next 2 months, we ate every meal together and basically spent a lot
of our free time together. H and I talked a lot, and we had the
discussion about what girls want. I was younger then and it was a fresh
topic for me; she said all the basic stuff about girls wanting a 'nice'
guy. I thought we were becoming friends, and was encouraged by the fact
she sought me out. I worked over-time to be considerate, sensitive, and
a gentleman. I didn't have relationship feelings for her at first but
by the end of those two months I was ready to ask her out on a date.
Nothing big, just a movie, but it was a big step for me. It didn't hurt
that H's roommate and best friend in AIT told me I should do so and
that I was "good for her". The day that I thought she and I were both
ready for this step up - I read all signs as positive - it turned bad.
I was sitting next to her in a review that night for a critical PE
(practical exercise), when I noticed her sending these gooey glances to
the back of the room. After the review, she went to this guy and was
all over him, offering to help him for the PE. As far as I know, he
never did a thing to encourage her. She made her decision on her own. I
hold nothing against him. He was a full-time jerk, but we were civil
and he was an open honest jerk. He wasn't all that enthusiastic about
her - he had actually rejected her about a month before she first
invited me to sit with her at lunch. She was persistent the second time
around, though, doing the things many infatuated women in AIT did for
their men - she studied with him, she shined his boots, washed and
ironed his uniforms, and a hundred other favors, dressed up and went
out with him on weekends. He eventually accepted her, and if that
sounds snippy, I say it like that because he never changed one bit for
her, and talked almost dismissively of her. They argued all the time,
which struck me, because H and I never argued. The morning after that
review night, I waited for her after PT (physical training - our
morning work-out) to go to breakfast just like every day. She didn't
show up, and when I called her room, H's roommate told me to go on
without her. I waited for her the next day, too, but we never ate
another meal together again. We spoke maybe one more time.
Maybe I'm blind and stupid, but I had no warning. I asked her out to a
movie the weekend after that PE anyway, but she kind of frowned and
slid away from me. While we were spending time together, she gave no
indication she still had any feelings for this guy, and mentioned in a
conversation early on she was over him. A training company is a small
intimate community, and I couldn't help but watch H with this guy. She
always gave these gooey looks to him that I never once received, she
spoke to him in this tone of voice that's hard to describe (cloying?)
and she always seemed to do her best to be attentive to him. He never
changed a bit for her. I remember standing close by when he shouted at
her once, "Why do you follow me everywhere?".
I'm only fortunate that I wasn't too far gone on H, like I am on Tee. I
was furious for one night, and it still hurt some afterwards, but I was
able to let her go. The experience stands out to me because it played
out the stereotype in a time when I was still firmly optimistic and
idealistic in my relationship beliefs. The lesson H taught me is that a
girl will act on her desire or lack of desire, regardless of how the
guy treats her. That can be reversed to applied to guys, true, but it's
a lesson about girls I still had to learn. I know now that losing a
girl's favor doesn't necessarily mean, as I used to think, that I
didn't treat her well enough. If a girl likes me, I could do a fraction
of my usual effort, and she'd still treat me great. On the other hand,
I could give a girl my soul, and it wouldn't matter if she didn't like
me.
they put truth on the backburner and try to tell the man there
> is nothing wrong with him, even when in other postings they cite the
lack
> of a visible woman as a sign of a man being repulsive.
Do they? Then I must be repulsive.
As far as the first thing you said, about if I'm such a great catch,
etc., I've been wondering about that lately myself. There's this
disparity in my life, where many people, men and women, tell me,
basically, that I'm a good guy. I get more than enough respect,
personally and professionally, more than I probably deserve. Except
with relationships, I feel I have a pretty good handle on my life. The
consensus seems to be that I ought to be in a good relationship. None
of that translates into actual relationship success, though.
Realpch
[snip]>Stop judging MY refrigerator on the basis of whether or not it has YOUR
>favorite food.
The discussion has changed to refrigerators?
Peaches
Realpch
[snip]
> I have very good reason to see the world
>as I do, namely because THIS IS HOW THE WORLD IS. People attack me
>acting like that's going to change things; it's not. As I've already
>proven, anyone who wants to influence my behavior in the way you are
>trying to with words is going to have to commit an awful lot of felonies
>to accomplish their goal.
People always have very good reasons for the ways that they see the world. It's
amazing how these views differ, given that it's the same world they are looking
at. Given this fact, it can occasionally be refreshing to shift ones viewpoint
a bit. Of course, if one is perfectly satisfied with ones outlook on life, why
change anything!
: )
Peach
Realpch
>I hope you
>realize, Krusty spoke for you earlier. I konw he did because anything
>short of confronting behavior like that is siding with it. I have no
>need for apathetic whiners who can't stand the idea that I might get
>pissed when people break the law against me.
This is an interesting idea you have here. You are assigning spokespeople for
other posters at will, without consulting them? It's certainly original.
Peach
Eric Chen
> Tee has zero interest in you. As far as she's concerned,
> you're simply a wallet with legs who will buy her stuff.
Actually, Tee is really good about paying. Whenever we need to pay, we
always race to see whose wallet can be pulled out faster. If it wasn't
ingrained in me that a guy should pay for his female companion, I'd
swear that she'd be happier if she paid every time. Expenditure-wise,
we're about even. Her sense of responsibility when we go out is one of
the things that impresses me about her.
> She likes the goodies you're willing to provide and she's
> quite happy to exploit you.
After I visited a friend in Japan, I came back with a bunch of gifts
for her. She reacted to them like I was Van Gogh and I was giving her
an amputated ear. Defending a gift that was chosen with high hopes,
much care and good intentions is not one of life's more pleasant
experiences. Tee hasn't exploited me.
> But, obviously, she doesn't give
> a flying fuck about you as a person or, apparantly as a
> potential partner either.
I wish I could say that wasn't true. When I'm with her, she does little
things to take care of me. For example, once, when we were in a
restaurant, she actually got out of her seat, snagged a pitcher of
water from a serving tray and refilled my glass because the waitress
was occupied. Stuff like that made me take notice. When we're not
physically together, though, it's a completely different story.
> Now that you're out of
> her life, she has dozens of suckers just like you to pick
> from.
I don't think so. If she has a couple of guys lined up, I don't know
about them. It is possible that there's at least one guy in the wings.
Tee is certainly attractive enough. I'd be delusional to think that
there aren't other men interested in her.
> So dump her, don't make a big deal out of it. Just tear up
> her number and walk. Don't call her again, EVER. If she
> should call you - an action that's nearly as likely as the
> Titanic sailing into New York harbor under it's own steam,
> tell her you don't appreciate being treated like shit. OTOH,
> don't sit by your phone breathlessly awaiting her call, she
> won't.
Yeah, I don't think she's going to call me either. The first few days I
was hopeful to the point that I expected her to talk to me. It's been
almost a month now. I'm not quite as hopeful anymore.
I still am waiting for her. I tell myself that there are a hundred
other things that I need to put my mind to, and that it is _her_ move,
but I can't help myself.
> In the preposterously unlikely event that Tee ever calls
> you, tell her that if she wants to be in your life, she can
> get up off her fat ass and show some interest in you.
She knows what I want from her. I'll help her and do my part if she
bridges the gap, but I won't do her part for her again. When she
regains my trust, I can cover for her, but not yet. I believe in
lending your strength when others are weak, but I also believe in
atonement.
> She hasn't done squat for you to begin with.
I can't say that. She makes my life better - happier - when she's with
me. Before she rejected my attempt at a committed relationship, when I
was all about optimism and hope, I believe I was a better person
because of her.
> Next time you find a girl that gets your motor running, go
> ahead be nice to her, show her a good time, the first time.
> Then make it clear if she wants the goodies, she has to pay.
> If she won't pay your price for your time, dump her. Life's
> too short to waste your time being interested in someone
> who's not interested in you.
Roger that. Obviously, something about me dissuades women from
considering a relationship with me. I don't know what that is yet, but
I'm going to do something about it. I'm tired of doing what I think is
right and maxing out my effort, and getting nothing in return. I want
companionship, support, physical intimacy, partnership, maybe even
love, with a woman I desire, like most guys. I'm tired of being lonely
and not having that special woman to share my life with. It's nice to
know that people think I'm a good guy and to be told "it's not you",
but I don't remember ever volunteering to be a martyr.
> Oh, yeah, and one more thing. Go out, find and fuck 10 other
> women. Then, and only then, make a decision if you really
> want Tee back in your life and on what terms.
Good advice, but I won't do it. I've relaxed on the no sex before
marriage idea, but I still believe in keeping it within a committed
relationship at least. On the other hand, I've never been sexually
propositioned by a circuit overloading type of woman either.
At this point, Tee would need to do a lot of damage control for us to
get back together. If she wanted to, she could do it, but I don't think
she will. Of course I want her back; she is the first girl I've ever
met that I could see myself together with for a long time, even years.
Not like this, of course, but if things were better. I hope she's not
the only one for me. Then I'd be screwed.
> That's my opinion, but you're welcome to it.
Appreciate it.
Eric Chen
> I don't know your ages, but it's entirely possible that she's just
not ready
> for a committed relationship and doesn't know how to tell you (i.e.
doesn't
> want to hurt you). Something seems to be going on that she's not
telling
> you.
I'm 24, she's 21, and she has told me. She said she just exited a
relationship in January, she likes her life as is right now (i.e.,
relationship-free), and something on the lines of not feeling any
passion. I told her I still felt the same way about her, but I would
hold myself to 'just' friendship, since my priority was to have her in
my life in the too little time we have left (I'm moving in 7 1/2
months). I actually meant this. However, I didn't give her a license to
treat me like crap.
> The one thing I do know is that you shouldn't fold. If she were truly
> interested then she would've contacted you by now.
That's just the thing. I want a relationship, and we are good together,
but this wasn't all or nothing. I had already agreed to friendship,
even while wanting more. I never held that or anything else back from
her. When we were together, I thought we had a good understanding.
I think like you do: just to preserve a friendship, she should have
contacted me. We saw each other 3 days before she stood me up; I
thought we were doing well, and she was looking forward to our
excursion. I still don't understand how she can seem fine about us when
we're together, but then cut me out when we're apart.
> If you cave in after
> she's stood you up then she'll never have respect for you.
That's pretty messed up. One reason I thought Tee and I would be good
together was that we wouldn't have to undergo some Strindberg-esque ego
battle. I'm looking for a partner, a source of strength, not an
adversary, and I thought we were compatible. Maybe I was hoping for too
much.
I've come pretty close to caving in a few times. Strangely, when I'm in
a good mood and my anger and hurt have receded, I'm closest to caving
in.
> Most women want someone they can respect that doesn't let them walk
all over
> them, but it doesn't mean they go for assholes (as some here will try
to
> tell you).
"... doesn't let them walk all over them?" Do women really think that
way about relationships? I can be conservative, especially being in the
Army, but I've been thinking trust and dependability, not someone to
control. I have to deal with enough head-butting at work and everywhere
else. I was hoping when I found the right girl, we could just take care
of each other.
> They look for strength of character and consistency, which you
> seem to have. I know it hurts now, but time will lessen that.
Hopefully it
> will just turn out to be a thing of "right person, wrong time", and
she'll
> come around sooner or later.
Time. Tee thinks I'm too concerned about it. Change and time do go hand
in hand. Eventually, I know I'll move on to whatever is next. That's
inevitable. We live life in the Now, though, and right now, I want Tee
back. I want her to do what she needs to do to make us right.
If she comes around later, she'll be too late. I'm gone in 7 1/2
months, and she knows that. Whatever time we have left to make our
history is rapidly running out. It's being wasted on this bullshit.
> Good luck :)
Thanks.
Anonymous
>>From: The Revolution <the________...@juno.com>
>
>>I hope you realize, Krusty spoke for you earlier.
Hey, asswipe..this time I'll use s-m-a-l-l words...
I speak for nobody else but me. While some may agree with
my posting, I am not a 'spokesperson' for anyone else.
So any thoughts to that idea by you is just another day in
'rayworld'...maybe someday, shithead, you will learn that
you cannot bring 'rayworld' into reality and expect others
to play in your sandbox.
Besides, I'll have to check, legal wise', if what you posted
here is nasty or not. PLEASE keep spewing such crap,
the courts will love it.
KR
--------== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==-------
Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server
-----------== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==----------
Nunya
"Eric Chen" <eric_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8othr9$3nd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> "Nunya" <y...@right.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't know your ages, but it's entirely possible that she's just
> not ready
> > for a committed relationship and doesn't know how to tell you (i.e.
> doesn't
> > want to hurt you). Something seems to be going on that she's not
> telling
> > you.
>
> I'm 24, she's 21, and she has told me. She said she just exited a
> relationship in January, she likes her life as is right now (i.e.,
> relationship-free), and something on the lines of not feeling any
> passion. I told her I still felt the same way about her, but I would
> hold myself to 'just' friendship, since my priority was to have her in
> my life in the too little time we have left (I'm moving in 7 1/2
> months). I actually meant this. However, I didn't give her a license to
> treat me like crap.
Very true. And I agree completely that her standing you up was inexcusable.
If she had reason she should've at least called.
>
>
> > The one thing I do know is that you shouldn't fold. If she were truly
> > interested then she would've contacted you by now.
>
> That's just the thing. I want a relationship, and we are good together,
> but this wasn't all or nothing. I had already agreed to friendship,
> even while wanting more. I never held that or anything else back from
> her. When we were together, I thought we had a good understanding.
>
> I think like you do: just to preserve a friendship, she should have
> contacted me. We saw each other 3 days before she stood me up; I
> thought we were doing well, and she was looking forward to our
> excursion. I still don't understand how she can seem fine about us when
> we're together, but then cut me out when we're apart.
>
It's possible her knowing your feelings scared her a bit. She might've been
afraid that she was leading you on. I've been in that situation before
(both sides of it), though I've never stood anyone up over it. She could've
been thinking something along the lines of "I don't want a relationship
right now. I enjoy being with him and if we spend time together then it'll
lead him on. So I'll give him a reason to be mad at me then maybe he won't
care for me as much." Yes, it's screwed up. But women who are still
immature can think that way unfortunately. It's better than if she just
hadn't cared if you got hurt or not. At least it does appear she had some
regard for your feelings and didn't just use you or lead you on. In the end
I honestly feel later in life she'll regret her decisions in respect to
standing you up.
>
> > If you cave in after
> > she's stood you up then she'll never have respect for you.
>
> That's pretty messed up. One reason I thought Tee and I would be good
> together was that we wouldn't have to undergo some Strindberg-esque ego
> battle. I'm looking for a partner, a source of strength, not an
> adversary, and I thought we were compatible. Maybe I was hoping for too
> much.
My apologies, I didn't phrase that very well. I wasn't meaning an ego
battle or even really a control thing. But when a woman is faced with a man
whom she likes, but knows his feelings are stronger than hers her thoughts
can get complicated. A strong woman (even a good one) can end up taking
advantage of a man she views as "weaker" than her. (Again I'm probably not
explaining what I mean very clearly.) This isn't intentional on her part.
Respect comes from knowing that a person's character is as strong or
stronger than your own. By not caving in, in a sense it's telling her "Yes
I care for you but it doesn't mean I'll allow you to treat me like shit.
Treat me right and I'll treat you right." It will treat her respect for
your strength of character. I know it hurts that she hasn't called. But
she seems to be having a hard time distinguishing that you can maintain just
being friends with her, not having to have it become a relationship even
though that's what you'd like. Possibly in the past she's been through
something similar and the guy fell too hard, leaving her wary.
>
> I've come pretty close to caving in a few times. Strangely, when I'm in
> a good mood and my anger and hurt have receded, I'm closest to caving
> in.
Possibly because that's when you're strongest. Inside you could feel as
though you're strong enough that talking to her won't hurt you.
>
>
> > Most women want someone they can respect that doesn't let them walk
> all over
> > them, but it doesn't mean they go for assholes (as some here will try
> to
> > tell you).
>
> "... doesn't let them walk all over them?" Do women really think that
> way about relationships? I can be conservative, especially being in the
> Army, but I've been thinking trust and dependability, not someone to
> control. I have to deal with enough head-butting at work and everywhere
> else. I was hoping when I found the right girl, we could just take care
> of each other.
My apologies again. Sometimes in dealing with some of the minds that are on
this ng I get too far in the habit of referring to things on a level they'll
understand. :) The type of relationship you're referring to is entirely
possible...when both parties are ready for it. I get the impression that
she may not properly appreciate your strength. That could be where the
disparity comes from. There's a difference in the way the minds of a
'strong' woman thinks from the ways of women that are attracted to "jerk"
behavior. A strong woman will test her limits with a man (unfortunate but
true), simply to see how far the tether extends. In some ways it can be
considered a good thing. A woman will not do this with a man she would
never consider for a relationship.
>
>
> > They look for strength of character and consistency, which you
> > seem to have. I know it hurts now, but time will lessen that.
> Hopefully it
> > will just turn out to be a thing of "right person, wrong time", and
> she'll
> > come around sooner or later.
>
> Time. Tee thinks I'm too concerned about it. Change and time do go hand
> in hand. Eventually, I know I'll move on to whatever is next. That's
> inevitable. We live life in the Now, though, and right now, I want Tee
> back. I want her to do what she needs to do to make us right.
Very understandable.
>
> If she comes around later, she'll be too late. I'm gone in 7 1/2
> months, and she knows that. Whatever time we have left to make our
> history is rapidly running out. It's being wasted on this bullshit.
>
That may be a part of it right there. She may be afraid of allowing herself
to fall for a man that's leaving and dealing with the pain of separation.
If that's the case, in a sense she did what was best by giving you time to
heal yourself before you go. It's not easy and never is, but far better
than if she had just led you on.
Again, my apologies if I was unclear on certain points. I knew that
everything I said would be twisted and taken out of context by particular
people in the ng (which this shall be too quite probably).
Email me if you'd like and I'll help if I can :)
she...@imstressed.com
Courageous
> <------If it was inexcusable, he wouldn't be making excuses for it, would
> he? He's clinging to HOPE here. What he did -- write her off -- was
> correct.
Correct. When a girl stands you up, you should never call her
ever again.
C//
Realpch
Well I assume you mean after ascertaining that the standing up was intentional.
I think it's good to let people know you are irritated by this behaviour, not
that it's likely to change them!
Peach
Courageous
> >Correct. When a girl stands you up, you should never call her
> >ever again.
> Well I assume you mean after ascertaining that the standing up was intentional.
Actually, I don't. *She will call the guy* if there is something
there. The guy doesn't need to call. If a profuse apology is proferred
along with *her asking the guy out*, then things might be repaired.
If it were me, I'd wait to be asked out, and then say "so where are
you taking me?". At the close of the evening I'd expect her to pay.
Otherwise, forget it.
If a girl can forget a date with me, there's not much to work with
in any case.
C//
Guy Tichborne
Eric Chen <eric_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> After I visited a friend in Japan, I came back with a bunch of gifts
> for her. She reacted to them like I was Van Gogh and I was giving her
> an amputated ear. Defending a gift that was chosen with high hopes,
> much care and good intentions is not one of life's more pleasant
> experiences. Tee hasn't exploited me.
This is, unfortunately, a tip-off. People, and guys in particular, give
things to women they are interested in romantically. When a woman doesn't
want to accept the gift, it almost always means she doesn't want to feel
obligated to reciprocate romantically. Doesn't matter if it was a
"friendship" gift, doesn't matter if there is no intended obligation,
it's all gut, instinct level stuff.
> > But, obviously, she doesn't give
> > a flying fuck about you as a person or, apparantly as a
> > potential partner either.
>
> I wish I could say that wasn't true. When I'm with her, she does little
> things to take care of me. For example, once, when we were in a
> restaurant, she actually got out of her seat, snagged a pitcher of
> water from a serving tray and refilled my glass because the waitress
> was occupied. Stuff like that made me take notice. When we're not
> physically together, though, it's a completely different story.
She obviously doesn't mind hanging out with you, but if she stands you up
and is unapologetic about it, sorry, she doesn't care that much about
you. People make excuses, but the reality is, if something is important
to you, if someONE is important to you, they will make it work, or at the
very least make it up to you later. If they don't, then it is because you
are a convenience, not a necessity to her.
> Yeah, I don't think she's going to call me either. The first few days I
> was hopeful to the point that I expected her to talk to me. It's been
> almost a month now. I'm not quite as hopeful anymore.
You are, I think, doing the right thing. As much as we are in a modern,
self-enlightened era, one thing I have learned over painful years is that
no amount of urbanization changes the basic underlying instincts and
emotions. While there are always exceptions, women, even strong, willful
and responsible women, are turned on and attracted to men who are strong
and willful themselves, men who know what they want and take it. Doesn't
mean be like an asshole, but it does mean being confident and knowing
yourself and what YOU want, and not being afraid or apologetic in your
pursuit of it. Loving someone doesn't mean acceding to their every desire
- it means caring for them and looking after their interests, yes, but it
requires that you lok after your own interests as well. You can do this
without hurting them, which is, I think, something people forget
sometimes. Just because you are attending to your own interests doesn't
mean that you are being mean or inattentive to them.
> Roger that. Obviously, something about me dissuades women from
> considering a relationship with me. I don't know what that is yet, but
> I'm going to do something about it. I'm tired of doing what I think is
> right and maxing out my effort, and getting nothing in return. I want
> companionship, support, physical intimacy, partnership, maybe even
> love, with a woman I desire, like most guys. I'm tired of being lonely
> and not having that special woman to share my life with. It's nice to
> know that people think I'm a good guy and to be told "it's not you",
> but I don't remember ever volunteering to be a martyr.
The key, I think, is that you have to like yourself and like yourself as
a person apart from being in a relationship before you can be confident
enough to be attractive to someone else romantically. I would recommend
spending six to nine months - at the very least - and learning about what
YOU want. Go out and deliberately be friends with women and squelch any
romantic interest in them. If one seems interested, until you are secure
and confident in knowing what you want to do, put her down gently.
Good luck!
--
Geoff Tuffli
ci
maybe she'd let you move into her garbage can..
sorry to be so crude/rude.. but you care for her a LOT MORE thsn she
cares for you.
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Nunya
miserably. :)
-Shell
"Guy Tichborne" <tu...@jubal.com> wrote in message
news:8oual9$sm5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
ci
> "Eric Chen" <eric_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8othr9$3nd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > "Nunya" <y...@right.com> wrote:
> > I'm 24, she's 21, and she has told me. She said she just exited a
young
..
> Respect comes from knowing that a person's character is as strong or
> stronger than your own. By not caving in, in a sense it's telling her "Yes
> I care for you but it doesn't mean I'll allow you to treat me like shit.
> Treat me right and I'll treat you right."
Definitely a one way phenom. Men aren't that ways toward women.
...
> > > Most women want someone they can respect that doesn't let them walk
> > all over
> > > them, but it doesn't mean they go for assholes (as some here will try
> > to
> > > tell you).
And then there are women who believe those can easily be separated. That
a cutthroat cold hearted man can some how not be cutthroat cold hearted
at times she'd rather he wasn't?
..
> behavior. A strong woman will test her limits with a man (unfortunate but
> true), simply to see how far the tether extends. In some ways it can be
> considered a good thing. A woman will not do this with a man she would
> never consider for a relationship.
Which is risky since the results can depend so much on luck.. results
can have much to do with neither of the persons in the couple..
circumstances, you know..
> > > They look for strength of character and consistency, which you
> > > seem to have. I know it hurts now, but time will lessen that.
> > Hopefully it
> > > will just turn out to be a thing of "right person, wrong time", and
> > she'll
> > > come around sooner or later.
hopefully.
> Again, my apologies if I was unclear on certain points. I knew that
> everything I said would be twisted and taken out of context by particular
> people in the ng (which this shall be too quite probably).
No one understands anyone else.. so I prefer to be very tolerant of
misunderstandings..
ci
909
> Someone Writes:
> I don't know your ages, but it's entirely possible that she's just not
> ready
> for a committed relationship and doesn't know how to tell you (i.e.
> doesn't
> want to hurt you). Something seems to be going on that she's not telling
> you.
>
> <----Namely, his nice demeanor repulses her, causes her to chop his cock
> off in her mind....
aren't chinchilla burgers cheaper?
:>
...
> Most women want someone they can respect that doesn't let them walk all
> over
> them, but it doesn't mean they go for assholes (as some here will try to
> tell you).
>
> <---------Read ASF for the constant lay reports posted by the assholes
> (who failed when they were nice men) for more insight.
Which might be BS from the same group of ppl...
...
> Posts like this make it very difficult not to root for the ASF players to
> feed every line of b/s to women to get into their pants. While he was
> sincerely interested in her, odds are some ASF-type jerk was out there
> getting into her pants in minutes or hours, while he is being told to
> wait months. Women who see nothing wrong with this reward system deserve
> nothing but players in their lives. They are sending a CLEAR message to
> men to become them.
I tend to agree.. though I have only hearsay evidence myself... and I
can't say that my sources are yet proven reliable IMO.
> Remember, laides, he CAN get sex. All he has to do is learn to drop his
> "good" qualities. Are you prepared to GIVE HIM SEX to keep him nice or
> should he follow the ASF stampede and get with the program of what women
> claim not to want, but which they reward on a CONSTANT basis? The choice
> is yours, ladies.....telling him it's wrong to become a player won't wash
> very well when he realizes it's also wrong to reward players. Appeals to
> conscience from a rattlesnake aren't very convincing.
:>
Guy Tichborne
Shawn T Pickrell <spic...@mason2.gmu.edu> wrote:
> with most women i have discovered, he who hesitates
> masturbates. yes women prattle on anbout wanting to
> be friends first, but in my experience that just does
> not work with a majority of women.
>
> that includes my wife, btw.
>
> if you wait too long before making a move she will
> classify you in her mind under "friends, platonic"
> and then be confused or even angry when you do make a
> move.
While there are exceptions, this is, by and large, very true. What
happens is that women whom you befriend do not want to risk losing your
friendship. Some do make the risk - my girlfriend, in fact, fell into
this category. Making it clear that you are not interested in being "just
friends" is often necessary; a lot of women do not understand this,
however, and I have heard several rail against men who won't settle for
just being friends.
Personally, if my level of interest in a woman is low to medium (that is,
"she might be someone I might be interested in") then if they rebuff
romantic overtures, I have no problem with it. If my level of interest in
a woman is very high, then I find that it becomes an either-or situation
- either we get together, or we don't stay as more than acquaintances.
Some women I know get very annoyed at guys reacting like this, but I
suspect this is a symptom of not having been in the same situation. I
have an ex from back when I was in Chicago whom I would have liked to
have stayed friends with, but knew she didn't want that. I was,
naturally, disappointed, but I entirely understood.
Mr. Happy
How many other chicks are you seeing? It seems to me that your real
problem is a basic lack of understanding of female psychology.
o===3
In article <8oqup3$e2u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
eric_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> After a 4 year hiatus from alt.romance, I'm back.
> I am a frustrated guy. By nature, I'm an
> idealist. In relationships, however, I've become
> cynical. I can write about that at length, and I
> probably will, but I'll pose just this question
> for now about my current situation.
>
> Background: This girl, I'll call her Tee, seems
> to be just about everything I want, and I've
> fallen for her hard. We've done nothing sexual or
> even physical - her choice, and I respect it.
> Otherwise, though, when we're together or just
> talking on the phone, everything seems
> to 'click'. We've spent as many as 21 consecutive
> hours together, and seen 3 sunrises together
> after all-nighters. I'd spend all my free time
> with Tee if I could, and she's the first girl
> I've met that I can honestly see myself together
> with for a long time. I've tried to be my best
> sincere self with her, and I've been honest about
> everything. When Tee's with me, she seems
> enthusiastic about spending time with me, and
> even proposes get-togethers. When we're apart,
> though, she never takes the initiative to see me,
> and it's hard work almost every time to get us
> back together. Seeing me is not a priority for
> her and, sometimes, I've felt like I was
> practically begging for her time. I've proposed a
> deeper relationship already, was turned down, and
> I agreed to hold myself to friendship, although I
> did not back down from what I felt for her. I
> decided and told her that having her in my life
> was more important than my pride.
>
> Here's the situation: 3 weeks ago, I had planned
> an excursion for us. She seemed all for it, and I
> prepared thoroughfully, but on the day of, she
> stood me up. The upset I felt that day combined
> with the history of one-sided effort I had with
> her caused all of my swallowed pride to boil up.
> I was angry and challenged her to make up the day
> to me. For once, I wanted her to make the effort
> for me. She said she wouldn't. In the past, I had
> bridged all the gaps that came between us, but
> this time, I told her the next move was hers. She
> acknowledged that and hasn't talked to me since.
>
> It's been a hard 3 weeks, and I'm confused. Like
> I said, she seems to be everything I want and I
> think we 'click' tremendously well - when we're
> together. It feels very easy to be with her, and
> she seems just as comfortable with me. I don't
> know if I've done well, but I've done my best
> with Tee.
>
> My question: What is behind this disparity? What
> happens when I'm not with her that I don't see
> when we're together? I don't understand how she
> can be so different when we're apart.
>
> Right now, I think that I could bridge this gap,
> but if I did that, things wouldn't change. I
> don't trust her, and I won't accept that any
> longer. I'm waiting for her to come through for
> me, and it's not happening. It's hard.
>
> I welcome all opinions. I need to understand.
>
> Eric