Lawsuit is Prabhupada's desire
anon...@my-deja.com
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
I am an old disciple of Srila Prabhupada who, for reasons that will
become clear after you read the rest of this post, wishes to remain
anonymous.
Many devotees have written messages pro and con the Gurukuli lawsuit.
What both sides don't know is that the lawsuit is actually Srila
Prabhupada's desire. Let me explain.
When Srila Prabhupada passed away I was in India. At the time of his
passing I was in Delhi doing some service for the Vrndavana mandir. As
soon as I heard of Srila Prabhupada's passing, I rushed to Vrndavan
only to find that the samadhi ceremony had already been performed. All
the devotees were shocked and lamenting in separation. All that is,
except the new 'gurus,' who were celebrating. Their mood was in such
contrast to the rest of the devotees it really stood out.
As I entered the Vrndavan temple guesthouse I saw Srila Prabhupada's
sister Pishima. Spontaneously I paid my dandavats to her. I had known
Pishima a long time and she greeted me warmly. Pishima invited me to
her room in the guesthouse and I was only too glad to spend some time
in her association.
At this time Pishima, as the rest of us, were engulfed in grief at the
passing of our Gurudeva. Through her tears and grief, Pishima told me
many confidential things that day. She implored me to keep them secret
until the proper time. Accordingly I have remained silent until the
present situation has made disclosure of some her confidences
appropriate.
Pishima had already confided in me in Mayapur in 1975 that Srila
Prabhupada was being poisoned to death. Srila Prabhupada had brought
her to Mayapur to cook for him, and for a short time I was her kitchen
helper. She was very concerned at the time that there was a conspiracy
among Srila Prabhupada's leading disciples and the Gaudiya Math to
murder him and take over the movement.
At our meeting in Vrndavan after Srila Prabhupada's disappearance,
Pishima confirmed that Srila Prabhupada had been poisoned. Srila
Prabhupada had told her specifically that his inner circle of sannyasis
were the poisoners.
Srila Prabhupada had told her many other things as well. He said that
he decided to accept the poisoning as Krsna's will. Just like Maharaja
Pariksit accepted Sringi's curse, he saw it as an opportunity to leave
this world and return back to home. In addition, he wanted to destroy
ISKCON.
I questioned Pishima closely on this point, because it seemed to
contrary to common sense. Pishima said that Srila Prabhupada had
determined that the leadership of ISKCON had deviated so completely
from the actual teachings of the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya that he
wanted to destroy the organization, lest they become another Catholic
Church and attempt world domination.
According to Pishima, Srila Prabhupada was totally disgusted with his
disciples' failure to understand his pure Vrajabasi mood and that they
became entangled in organizational politics. So he manipulated them
into perfoming an elephant offense to destroy them. In this way he was
just like Krishna who arranged to destroy His own family army, the Yadu
dynasty, with a curse and a fratricidal war, lest they become too much
of a burden for the earth.
Srila Prabhupada was so humble he viewed his own life and self-
preservation as nothing. At that point he was much more concerned about
the continuity of the sampradaya. He sacrificed his life so that his
bogus disciples would be cut down and stopped from preaching in the
wrong way, from a neophyte platform.
When I asked Pishima what would happen to Srila Prabhupada's sincere
disciples if ISKCON was destroyed, she explained that Srila Prabhupada
said that Krsna would protect them, and the devotees who had any
spiritual intelligence would leave ISKCON before anything really bad
happened. Events have borne this out.
Then I asked Pishima how the result of the elephant offense would
manifest. She told me that Srila Prabhupada predicted that the ISKCON
movement would become embroiled in court cases that would destroy their
properties and bank balance, stop their preaching and punish the so-
called leaders. Now this is also happening.
Finally I asked Pishima how the movement would go on after all this
devastation. Pishima replied that Srila Prabhupada had told her that
Krishna would take care, and that he had already picked one of his
disciples to be his successor. But the successor would not manifest his
potency until after the present structure of ISKCON was completely
destroyed.
Pishima also told me many other things that Srila Prabhupada told her
that are not yet appropriate to reveal. I have kept these secrets in my
heart these so many years, it is a relief to finally be able to see
these predictions come true. Even though they are heavy, it assures me
that Srila Prabhupada knew everything all along, that Krishna is taking
care of His movement, and that no cheater can cheat the greatest cheat
without being thoroughly defeated in the end.
Very truly yours,
Anon Amos
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kishore Krishna dasa
anon...@my-deja.com wrote:
Rubbish.
BTW: There is no such thing as anonymity on the internet.
(Or at least, YOU don't know how to do it properly!)
--
Vaishnava dasanudasa
Kishore Krishna dasa
Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas
How can you accuse this Vaisnava of falsehood when the events he or she
recounts took place long before you became a devotee. You were not there, so
how do you know? You may not like what this devotee has to say, but you
cannot offer any evidence to disprove it.
Dasanudas
"Kishore Krishna dasa" <kishorek...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8neeug$2r7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8ne95s$rds$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> anon...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Rubbish.
>
> BTW: There is no such thing as anonymity on the internet.
> (Or at least, YOU don't know how to do it properly!)
>
> --
> Vaishnava dasanudasa
> Kishore Krishna dasa
>
>
Pratyatosa Dasa
uit/forum/forum&order=date&article=159
Subject: Re: Lawsuit is Prabhupada's Desire
Date: Sun, Aug 16 2000 13:44
From: mahaksadasa
I gotta back this story by anon amos, It almost sounds exactly like the
source I used in the poisoning issue (the internet version of IVC), it
may well be the same person, (if it is, haribol, been over twenty
years, but I remember you well).
The inner circle of power-mongers were engaged in their demoniac deeds
long before maha-samadhi, my only regret is that those who were aware
of the infiltration did not rescue Srila Prabhupada from their chains
of oppression and begin the lawsuit back then, with Him as our guide.
mahak
Kishore Krishna dasa
"Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas" <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
[SNIP]
Why don't you admit you wrote it and stop wasting our time.
--
Vaishnava dasanudasa
Kishore Krishna dasa
Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas
they are simply politically motivated. Atha'to brahma-jijnasa. We are meant
to inquire into the Absolute Truth. If you don't like what we write, that's
why Krsna created kill-files. You please stop wasting our time. If you are
really 'Vaishnava dasanudasa' you would at least be gentlemanly in your
responses.
Dasanudas
"Kishore Krishna dasa" <kishorek...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8nfn2h$ibg$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Kishore Krishna dasa
"Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas" <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Since you present no proof whatever of your assertions, it is clear
that
> they are simply politically motivated. Atha'to brahma-jijnasa. We are
meant
> to inquire into the Absolute Truth. If you don't like what we write,
that's
> why Krsna created kill-files. You please stop wasting our time. If
you are
> really 'Vaishnava dasanudasa' you would at least be gentlemanly in
your
> responses.
Even without knowing that the IP address in the supposely anonymous
header (207.69.48.104) is a MindSpring dialup (user-
37kac38.dialup.mindspring.com) (YOUR ISP, probably YOUR city):
YOU are the only one who brought the "Sringi" speculation to this forum.
YOU are saying the Srila Prabhupada was poisoned.
It is written in YOUR writing style with YOUR offensive mentality.
YOU jumped to YOUR OWN defense when I said it was RUBBISH (IT IS!!!).
Do you think we are STUPID?
Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas
> In article <8nglo1$fo3$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>,
> "Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas" <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Since you present no proof whatever of your assertions, it is clear
> that
> > they are simply politically motivated. Atha'to brahma-jijnasa. We are
> meant
> > to inquire into the Absolute Truth. If you don't like what we write,
> that's
> > why Krsna created kill-files. You please stop wasting our time. If
> you are
> > really 'Vaishnava dasanudasa' you would at least be gentlemanly in
> your
> > responses.
>
>
> Even without knowing that the IP address in the supposely anonymous
> header (207.69.48.104) is a MindSpring dialup (user-
> 37kac38.dialup.mindspring.com) (YOUR ISP, probably YOUR city):
>
> YOU are the only one who brought the "Sringi" speculation to this forum.
> YOU are saying the Srila Prabhupada was poisoned.
> It is written in YOUR writing style with YOUR offensive mentality.
> YOU jumped to YOUR OWN defense when I said it was RUBBISH (IT IS!!!).
>
> Do you think we are STUPID?
>
pa...@neteze.com
<kishorek...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>Do you think we are STUPID?
[pada: Are you stupid? Well yes, you have not been able to answer this
question since 1936, ho hum, yawn, but Jane Wallace answered it in two
seconds? What is with you slow-pokes? Stupid? Yes. Thanks, for
admitting that you are twenty seven centuries "behind" with your butt
sex gurus, which even Jane Wallace can figure out in maybe two seconds
tops, no pun intended. pd]
Jesus' sincere followers didn't enjoy seeing him crucified.
The story goes that they had to hide out for a long time afterwards,
too. Vaishnava dasanudasa
Kishore Krishna dasa
[PADA: Good point. After Sridhara Maharaja fanatically orchestrated
his homosexual pooja guru project ideas in 1936 in India, many of the
sincere Vaishnavas of the Gaudiya Matha went into hiding being to
embarrased about the whole mess, or worse, they could get their heads
beat in with bricks by the Sridhara Maharaja backed homosexual pooja
cult. And there were some Gaudiya Matha beatings and killings
according to Srila Prabhupada, for persons who objected (like pada?)
There was a beatings and death sentence for those who objected to
Sridhara's backed homosexual pooja imbroglio ideas. Nice devotional
mood that?
Then Sridhara Maharaja started to back the same exact thing in
post-1977, saying that the GBC's homosexuals are acharyas after he
learned little from his 1936 mess, murders and mayhem he created in
the post- 1936 G Matha --making people leave and hide?
And your party's support of homosexual pooja has created this mess and
what, you are proud of it? You still go in public and defend the
people who orchestrated this homosexual pooja prohect? And you say you
are chanting? What are you chanting them? You are insulting the
chanting by saying that chanting leads to making homosexual pooja
lineages. Even people who never chant know that homosexual pedo-pooja
is bogus, thus you insult the chanting. ys pd
Kishore Krishna dasa
"Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas" <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Nothing.
Are you denying you wrote it? You haven't!
You thought I was bluffing, but you were WRONG!!!
With a little more research, I can tell if the number dialed to make
that posting was a local call for you!
Fess up! Don't play games!
Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas
OK, KKD you still don't get it so I guess I need to go into Ding-Dong School
mode and dismantle your fallacious arguments one at a time instead of all at
once.
> Even without knowing that the IP address in the supposely anonymous
> header (207.69.48.104) is a MindSpring dialup (user-
> 37kac38.dialup.mindspring.com) (YOUR ISP, probably YOUR city):
Right. Probably. There are over 5,000,000 Mindspring users, including many
devotees. So there is a 1 in 5,000,000 or so chance of your guess being
correct. This is highly inconclusive.
At any rate, if I were going to make an anonomous post, I would do it right
and use one of those rogue servers in Kazakhstan. I have been around the
block a few times, and I build websites for a living. So yes, Anon Amos must
have posted from Mindspring. But you still can't supply a definite IP
address, so you are just bluffing by presenting a conclusion you would like
to hear, instead of the truth, which is that you don't know who the poster
might be.
Which of course, has nothing to do with what Anaon Amos actually said. To
divert attention from an uncomfortable truth with a torrent of side issues
is the tactic of the less intelligent. Women, for example, use it all the
time. This kind of diversion wouldn't last a minute in an actual debate.
> YOU are the only one who brought the "Sringi" speculation to this forum.
I never mentioned Srngi in connection with the poison issue. But actually,
the metaphor has merit.
My interpretation of the spiritual significance of the Gurukuli lawsuit made
reference to several of Srila Prabhupada's purports to Srimad Bhagavatam
regarding the cursing of Maharaja Pariksit by Srngi. I guess it was too much
for you to read the whole thing before disagreeing, as is your habit.
> YOU are saying the Srila Prabhupada was poisoned.
Srila Prabhupada said that he was poisoned. Pishima said that Srila
Prabhupada said that he was poisoned. Anon Amos says that Pishima said that
Srila Prabhupada said that he was poisoned. There is at least one other
corroborration of this version:
"Subject: Re: Lawsuit is Prabhupada's Desire
Date: Sun, Aug 16 2000 13:44
From: mahaksadasa
I gotta back this story by anon amos, It almost sounds exactly like the
source I used in the poisoning issue (the internet version of IVC), it
may well be the same person, (if it is, haribol, been over twenty
years, but I remember you well)."
Since I have never communicated with Mahaksa dasa Prabhu, even by email,
this unsolicited confirmation goes a long way to establish Anon Amos's
credibility and to disprove your speculation.
> It is written in YOUR writing style with YOUR offensive mentality.
What qualifications do you possess to determine if a piece is written by the
same person by the writing style alone? Do you have any graduate degree in
linguistic analysis? Do you have any license as a forensic examiner? Do you
have any training in General Semantics? This is just your opinion. Actually,
Anon Amos spells Krsna as "Krishna" several times, and also spells Srngi
"Sringi," something I would never do. Go back and read all my posts if you
doubt this.
If Srila Prabhupada said he was poisoned, how am I making an offense by
defending a writer who supports that same position? Your idea of offensive
mentality is whatever you don't like, that's all. Grow up: I don't like that
Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, or the lawsuit that attacks Srila Prabhupada
and his teachings, but since they are both facts I have to deal with them in
a mature, polite devotional manner.
> YOU jumped to YOUR OWN defense when I said it was RUBBISH (IT IS!!!).
I just don't like to see knee-jerk statements by neophyte devotees
cluttering up this newsgroup. So I speak out in defense of senior devotees
like Pratyatosa, Puranjana and Anon Amos. Even if I don't agree with
everything they have to say, or the way they express themselves. You
evidently have a problem with that. Too bad. If you want an environment
where self-expression is ruthlessly controlled, go join ISKCON. Or the Klu
Klux Klan. You'd feel right at home.
You can't say Anon Amos' post is rubbish, because you have no evidence
whatsoever that this is so. Even if you correctly guess Anon Amos' identity,
it still wouldn't change what he/she has to say.
Actually if you knew anything about Pishima, you would know that it's very
unlikely that she would confide in a male. Pishima was extremely shy and
chaste; following the manner in which she was raised, she never would speak
to man unless it were absolutely necessary, what to speak of inviting him to
her room as Anon Amos recounts.
What of the possibility that Anon Amos is merely a ghostwriter for someone
else, who is too shy to express themselves boldly to the assembled devotees?
You have not exhaustively examined all the possibilities, nor have you
addressed them very logically, Prabhu. This is called 'jumping to
conclusions,' which unless you are on the Olympic conclusion-jumping team,
is not a terribly laudable practice.
> Do you think we are STUPID?
Well, since you asked, actually... After the preponderance of evidence that
has been presented on this and other forums about the poison issue, and
considering your immature stance on the lawsuit issue, and your tendency to
jump to preconceived conclusions without examining the evidence, and
attempting to force the disclosure of the identity of a devotee much senior
to yourself who prefers to remain anonymous, it certainly does appear that
you are--how shall I say--rather sadly lacking in certain qualifications of
tact, Vaisnava etiquette and discrimination.
You make outrageous claims about events that happened before you were born,
most likely, and certainly before you became a devotee. You contradict
advanced Vaisnavas who have been observing and contemplating events in the
Vaisnava community for 30 years or more with your sentimental, half-baked
opinions. You claim devotees never saw what they saw and never heard what
they most clearly heard. Your arguments are empty of all conclusive
evidence. You certainly have strong opinions, but they are hardly
well-reasoned. You appear very impulsive and eager to force your conclusion
on everyone else.
These are all symptoms of a very neophyte, fanatical young devotee. We who
have been a part of this community from the beginning have seen many like
you come and go. It must be tiring to support such a forced, politically
polarized mentality, that's why devotees like you have such a high turnover
rate. You don't hear from the Pais anymore, especially after it was revealed
that they were professional agents. The way you're headed, you won't last
long either. I feel sorry for you, but there is no substitute for experience
and true learning. You would be well-advised to go back and study your
sastra for some time before presumptuously attempting to best your betters.
Sadly,
Dasanudas
Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas
public. The devotee clearly wants to remain anonymous. Are you some
self-appointed vigilante against anonymity? Who are you to unmask him/her?
What is your motivation?
Mindspring is a huge ISP with millions of customers. They started out in
Atlanta and have hundreds of thousands of customers in the Atlanta local
calling area, which is a huge area over 50 miles in diameter. So all your
posturing proves nothing.
If I wanted to make a really anonymous post I would do it right and spoof a
nonexistent IP address from a rogue server. Or even better, from a zombie.
Duh...
Dasanudas
"Kishore Krishna dasa" <kishorek...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8nhb6d$ein$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8nh8s5$91f$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>,
> "Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas" <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> Nothing.
>
> Are you denying you wrote it? You haven't!
> You thought I was bluffing, but you were WRONG!!!
>
> With a little more research, I can tell if the number dialed to make
> that posting was a local call for you!
>
> Fess up! Don't play games!
>
Kishore Krishna dasa
"Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas" <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I don't understand why you are so determined to make Anon Amos'
identity
> public. The devotee clearly wants to remain anonymous. Are you some
> self-appointed vigilante against anonymity? Who are you to unmask
him/her?
> What is your motivation?
>
> Mindspring is a huge ISP with millions of customers. They started out
in
> Atlanta and have hundreds of thousands of customers in the Atlanta
local
> calling area, which is a huge area over 50 miles in diameter. So all
your
> posturing proves nothing.
>
> If I wanted to make a really anonymous post I would do it right and
spoof a
> nonexistent IP address from a rogue server. Or even better, from a
zombie.
> Duh...
You obviously don't have a clue about the internet. You make me laugh!
I "outed" you before, remember "desert_shaman"? How's the BDSM going?
Yes, you are severely credibilty impaired. Best to post anonymously.
OOPS that didn't work out, did it?
I notice you have *STILL* not come out and said that it wasn't you this
time. If you didn't write it, what's stopping you? Supersoul?
Why should I ignore pseudo-anonymous aparadha against Srila Prabhupada,
his disciples, and the entire Gaudiya Math? Why not expose the
perpetrator? (YOU!)
Not to mention that according to you, you knew that Srila Prabhupada
was being poisoned for two years and did nothing.
The Sringi thing was the clincher. You may as well have signed your
name to it. It couldn't very well have been anyone else.
You accuse me of having political motivations, yours are clear!
Admit or don't, no matter. We know the truth.
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain". -The Wizard of OZ
Puranjana said:
"Of course we think that despite that the momentum for the poison issue
appears to have dwindled," Yeah, because more and more devotees have
come to realize that Srila Prabhupada was a pure devotee, and that such
a thing is therefore impossible. Only offenders like you two feel
otherwise.
"If I only had a brain" - "Puranjana" and The Scarecrow from The Wizard
of OZ
Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas
evidence, nor have you refuted any of my points. Case closed.
"Kishore Krishna dasa" <kishorek...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8nhj3s$of8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8nheop$esg$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>,
Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas
Whether one believes it is a true story or not, and despite the various
opinions pro and con, the lawsuit is a fact and it will go forward and
accomplish Krsna's intentions. Everything that happens is the will of the
Lord.
Dasanudas
<anon...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8ne95s$rds$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Kishore Krishna dasa
"Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas" <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> There's no need for a denial when you have not presented any
conclusive
> evidence, nor have you refuted any of my points. Case closed.
I am not the FBI. I'd need a court order to find out definately that
you sent it. Who cares. Definately an amateur job. You've as much as
admitted it. You obviously WANT the attention anyway. Pity you won't
get any.
The strongly corroborative circumstantial evidence coupled with your
behaviour after the fact makes it clear that I am right.
Your charades, offensive speculations, and wild accusations are useless.
Stop offending Srila Prabhupada and all the Vaishnavas.
Ananda das
<dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> To divert attention from an uncomfortable truth with a torrent
> of side issues is the tactic of the less intelligent. Women,
> for example, use it all the time.
> I just don't like to see knee-jerk statements by neophyte devotees
> cluttering up this newsgroup. So I speak out in defense of senior
> devotees (sic) like Pratyatosa, Puranjana and Anon Amos.
> You contradict advanced Vaisnavas who have been observing and
> contemplating events in the Vaisnava community for 30 years or more
> with your sentimental, half-baked opinions.
> These are all symptoms of a very neophyte, fanatical young devotee.
> You would be well-advised to go back and study your sastra for some
> time before presumptuously attempting to best your betters.
====================================================================
This is simply appalling! Prabhuji whimsically and gratuitously
attacks the intelligence of women in general, when no such distinction
ought to be made between women and men, who are fully and utterly equal on
the only platform that matters, the spiritual one.
Pratyatosa das prabhu and Puranjana das are real people who, though
grossly deluded at present, offered useful service to Krsna consciousness
in the past. For their service, the community of devotees will be ever
grateful to them. For their present bewilderment, the community of devotees
offers them all sympathy. Due to his numerous offences to the Vaisnavas,
Puranjana has most unfortuntely lost the power to chant the holy name of
Sri Krsna. "Anon Amos" is the nom de plume of a coward who lacks character
and credibility. Leaping to the "defence" of such personalities is not very
important, as they seem wholly able to post rubbish on their own.
While Kishore Krishna das prabhu is, as far as I know, not a member of
ISKCON, I would never dream of questioning his devotional bona fides.
Anyone who has seen a few of his more scholarly postings with voluminous
references to shastra would be able to recognise that he is truly an
advanced Vaishnava, in the only way that matters: not chronological years
since his first exposure to Krsna consciousness, but in the depth of his
understanding.
It is amazing that any devotee would write as prabhuji writes about
"attempting to best your betters". That reads to me, at least, as raw and
naked arrogance, the very antithesis of Vaisnava humility, I am afraid. By
this letter, I suppose, I have elaborately demonstrated my own
fault-finding nature, but what can I do? I think this needed to be said.
"One can chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind,
thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street, more tolerant than the
tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and always ready to offer all
respects to others." -- Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu
Pray for us all, prabhus.
Best wishes,
Ananda das
Ron & Keli Conroy
low class auto knee jerk types..I was also in India during the time of Srila
Prabhupada's passing,but not in Vrindaban..Many of the details have been
coroborated by other devotee's such as; the mood of the new guru's as
opposed everyone else's..
Thank you for this post Anon,although a little more detail pointing to your
presense at this time would be appropriate..The dogs will always bark..But
those of us sincerely listening will understand ...
Satyahit das
Ron & Keli Conroy
SATYAHIT DAS
Pratyatosa Dasa <praty...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8nf48r$tat$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> http://harekrsna.com/cgi-bin/postit?login=rocana&topic=laws
> uit/forum/forum&order=date&article=159
>
> Subject: Re: Lawsuit is Prabhupada's Desire
> Date: Sun, Aug 16 2000 13:44
> From: mahaksadasa
> I gotta back this story by anon amos, It almost sounds exactly like the
> source I used in the poisoning issue (the internet version of IVC), it
> may well be the same person, (if it is, haribol, been over twenty
> years, but I remember you well).
>
> long before maha-samadhi, my only regret is that those who were aware
> of the infiltration did not rescue Srila Prabhupada from their chains
> of oppression and begin the lawsuit back then, with Him as our guide.
>
> mahak
>
>
mithya
Bhaktisiddhartha Dasanudas wrote in message :
>
>>snip>>
>
>Everything that happens is the will of the Lord.
>
This is nice sentiment, but why do you not apply it universally?
Why do you not say that the children were abused by the will of the Lord?
Or that everything that has ever happened in ISKCON, including every
beautiful and even every despicable moment, is the will of trhe Lord?
Why don't you say that those who are in power now are there because it is
the will of the Lord?
Why?
Because it does not suit your political ambitions to say so.
Only say what will help your position, never say what may hurt you. Never
admit that what you rant and rave against is actually the will of the Lord.
Only see the hand of God in the activities that support your agenda, and
always see the hand of man in the activities that you oppose.
You may have your head in the sand, but not everyone else does, and even if
they did, a consensus on a lie does not make it the truth.
Please stop using Krsna to promote your agenda, it isn't very kind.
mithya
Ron & Keli Conroy
Amos is acepted by Satyahit das & Kelilallita dd,.as an authentic lady
devotee who had past association with Srila Prabhupada's sister,Pishima,who
told this devotee that Srila Prabhupada was being poisoned to death..I do
not understand why this info did not come out in 1977,78,79,80,81 etc,or
87,or 97...but then there are many things I do not understand..
Satyahit das
there are those still promoting the queen,& or the queens mother,the prime
minister & the president .But we see the planet poisoned under their symbols
of dominace...There are those throwing a pie into the face of the prime
minister..So there are all kings of feelings & opinions, as there is cent
percent illusion prevalent in practically all of us..
what is there in a dream but a dream !
what is there is illusion,but illusion !
They crucify & poison the pure devotee's ..
They pollute the planet earth under the name of "progress"..The queen,the
president,the prime minister..
What devotee would support a movement which alienated 90% of it's founders
disciples ? Would they be very naive,conditioned,less intelligent, or
simply evil..
What is there in Krsna ?
Ananda das <ana...@coastnet.com> wrote in message
news:ananda-ya02408000...@news.coastnet.com...
> In article <8nhcht$ha0$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, one devotee
> <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > To divert attention from an uncomfortable truth with a torrent
> > of side issues is the tactic of the less intelligent. Women,
> > for example, use it all the time.
>
> > I just don't like to see knee-jerk statements by neophyte devotees
> > cluttering up this newsgroup. So I speak out in defense of senior
> > devotees (sic) like Pratyatosa, Puranjana and Anon Amos.
>
> > You contradict advanced Vaisnavas who have been observing and
> > contemplating events in the Vaisnava community for 30 years or more
> > with your sentimental, half-baked opinions.
>
> > These are all symptoms of a very neophyte, fanatical young devotee.
> > You would be well-advised to go back and study your sastra for some
> > time before presumptuously attempting to best your betters.
>
Ron & Keli Conroy
Recently a freinds house windows were hit, for the first time, by 4
birds on separate occasions..2 died,one injured,one flew away..In my last
few visits to my freinds house,I have died at least twice,left injured
twice,& am still learning & growing seeing more clearly what must be done
within..in order for progress to be made..
Upon quitting this body,what ever & where ever this mind dwells,we go to
that place,be it hellish,heavenly,or the dham..Just think of the momentous
responsibility we have in the present moment to collect our thoughts & think
rightly,(rightiously).. Hell & heaven are very close at hand..But who will
go back to Godhead ? Who will develope pure unalloyed love for God & leave
this material world for once & for all ?
satyahit das
Ron & Keli Conroy
some honest intelligent devotee's to assist him in stopping & arresting the
poisoners !! Why ? Why did he allow this to go on ? This makes no sense to
me ..Not even an attempt to stop them ? Were there not some intelligent
devotee's who would certainly have taken the proper steps to stop the
poisoning of their spiritual master..Why not Srila Prabhupada's sister along
with other devotee's..There were how many involved in the plot to kill ? 11
? 5/6 ? That number could easily be arrested ,& or deported..The the
poisoning at least would have stoped..
I was in India the whole year leading up to Srila Prabhupada's passing
away..Just a side point..
Satyahit das
Pratyatosa Dasa <praty...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8nf48r$tat$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> http://harekrsna.com/cgi-bin/postit?login=rocana&topic=laws
> uit/forum/forum&order=date&article=159
>
> Subject: Re: Lawsuit is Prabhupada's Desire
> Date: Sun, Aug 16 2000 13:44
> From: mahaksadasa
> I gotta back this story by anon amos, It almost sounds exactly like the
> source I used in the poisoning issue (the internet version of IVC), it
> may well be the same person, (if it is, haribol, been over twenty
> years, but I remember you well).
>
> The inner circle of power-mongers were engaged in their demoniac deeds
> long before maha-samadhi, my only regret is that those who were aware
> of the infiltration did not rescue Srila Prabhupada from their chains
> of oppression and begin the lawsuit back then, with Him as our guide.
>
> mahak
>
>
Ananda das
prabhu <chai...@home.com> wrote:
> I do not understand why Srila Prabhupada would not have managed to gather
> some honest intelligent devotees to assist him in stopping & arresting the
> poisoners! Why? Why did he allow this to go on? This makes no sense to
> me ...Not even an attempt to stop them? Were there not some intelligent
> devotees who would certainly have taken the proper steps to stop the
> poisoning of their spiritual master? Why not Srila Prabhupada's sister along
> with other devotees? There were how many involved in the plot to kill? 11
> ? 5/6 ? That number could easily be arrested and/or deported... The
> poisoning at least would have stopped... I was in India the whole year
> leading up to Srila Prabhupada's passing away... Just a side point...
No one was gathered to stop and arrest so-called poisoners, because no
actual poisoning took place. Let's leave conspiracy theories aside. Srila
Prabhupada
was an elderly man, a pure devotee but in an elderly body. He had already
suffered heart attacks (the result, probably, of the excessive ghee
consumption of the typical Indian diet) as early as 1965, and several more
later. He was an admitted adult-onset diabetic who was more or less able to
mitigate his condition by avoiding excessive sugar consumption. He went to
India to die in Vrandavan at his own request because he knew his remaining
time was short. After he suffered total kidney failure, he could not have
maintained his life for much longer. No one poisoned him. The slight level
of arsenic found in some alleged hair samples was not by itself sufficient
to cause his death, and was well within the normal range, especially when
you consider that he spent a lot of time on the Bengal-North Gangetic plain
where there is a high natural level of arsenic in the soil, accompanied by
spraying of copper- and arsenic-containing insecticides on plants grown for
food. All of Prabhupada's disciples loved him. Even those who were anxious
to become his so-called successors [as if they could do even so by their
force of will alone without 30 to 40 years of sadhana], the convicted
criminals Kirtanananda and Hansadutta, had nothing to gain by shortening
his remaining lifespan by the few days or weeks that a so-called poison
attempt would have achieved.
Yes, many devotees in high places made many mistakes in ISKCON, and some
prematurely claimed glories they did not deserve, but there was no
poisoning. No poisoning occurred. The poison claim is a myth, fostered by
persons whose motives are not pure. There was no poisoning. It is an error
to say that a poison attempt occurred. As Satyahit prabhu implies in his
message quoted above, a pure devotee of Sri Krsna, as Srila Prabhupada
certainly was, is in constant communion with Sri Krsna Himself, and could
not have been poisoned. He would have been immediately aware of any such
attempt.
Some reference has been made to a quotation by Prabhupada suggesting that
his ayurvedic doctor had said a certain proposed medication would have a
poisonous effect. Prabhupada himself had spoken like this on previous
occasions in lectures. For example, he might say that milk may have a
poisonous effect to someone suffering diarrhoea, but that yogurt, itself
prepared from milk, could be tolerated. The use of the word "poisonous",
therefore, does not at all demonstrate that an actual ill-motivated
poisoning plot was occurring.
We need to disregard these breathless and personally motivated claims of
poisoning. Consider their dubious, disreputable sources. There is no
mystery about why Prabhupad, a pure devotee, did nothing to prevent his own
poisoning, because no poisoning occurred. He was not poisoned. He died of
various complications, brought on partly by the stress of years of travel
at an advanced age, partly by the stress of an unhealthy diet that included
very little in the way of raw fruits and vegetables, and partly by the
stress of dealing with the unruly and quarrelsome mob of disciples he had
accepted to guide on the path back to Godhead. He had accomplished his
purpose and while he is strongly missed by everyone who knew him, he left
behind complete instructions in the form of his numerous books and recorded
lectures, which can be followed by his disciples, grand-disciples and
great-grand-disciples, indeed by any sincere aspirant to Krishna
consciousness now or in the future.
SIncerest felicitations,
Ananda das
Pratyatosa Dasa
testimony of another witness as to the fact that the "Lawsuit is
Prabhupada's Desire"
<a
href="http://harekrsna.com/cgi-bin/postit?login=rocana&topic=lawsuit
/forum/forum&order=date&article=166">http://harekrsna.com/cgi-bi
n/postit?login=rocana&topic=lawsuit/forum/forum&order=date&a
rticle=166</a>
Subject: Re: Lawsuit is Prabhupada's Desire
Date: Sun, Aug 22 2000 08:55
From: Ashvattama dasa
Dear assembled devotees,
Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila
Prabhupada.
In these days when dharma teeters on one leg -- truthfulness -- I was
very excited to see the posting from "Anon" (though I'm pretty sure I
know who he is, I'll respect his desire for privacy. I wouldn't want him
to get killed by the GBC.)
Until I read this post I though I was the only one who Pishima had
talked to that fateful fall in '77. I also approached her and after
offering my full dandavats, we too had a lengthy discussion about Srila
Prabhupada's true desires for the future of ISKCON. It was EXACTLY like
Anon describes.
However, I won't be so hesistant to reveal everything, because I think,
now, finally, the time is ripe. We should all understand and celebrate
Srila Prabhupada's mastery or the spiritual and material world and his
spirit of renunciation. He would work for over 10 years to establish
ISKCON, but he knew they were going to poison him and then take over and
take the spirit out of the sankirtana movement, so he was looking
forward to the inevitable lawsuits that would destroy the corrupt
organization. He even kept Tamal Krishna as his personal servant just so
he would be poisoned as planned. And he put Jagadish in charge of
gurukula because he knew his misconceptions about how to raise Krishna
conscious children, coupled with the low priority that the GBC would
give to "family matters", all but ensured a lawsuit 20 years down the
line. He also had Tamal -- Pishima witnessed this and told me -- put
"henceforth" in the famous July 7th letter, which at the time eemed a
bit strange to me, that in poor health Srila Prabhupada would pay such
excrutiating attention to an apparently small detail. Now I realize that
it was so that there would be grounds for Adridharana to sue the GBC as
well in India.
So even though at the time I knew that many of the gurus were corrupt,
and I knew that gurukulas weren't all they were supposed to be, I had to
keep my mouth shut in order for Prabhupada's plan, revealed to me in
secret, to manifest. So while the zonal acharyas were throwing a party
on the top floor of the guesthouse, I simply swallowed my tears. I
actually had to leave the association of devotees for a while and
perform service on my own, it was that painful.
The part that "Anon" has not revealed yet, but I feel it necessary to
get out in the open now, is that Prabhupada's designated successor is
none other than Pratyatosh Prabhu. Pishima gave me the clues and now
they all fall into place. He would be a sincere devotee who was often
misunderstood and thought crazy, especially by anyone who knew him.
However, she told me, he would slowly but surely manifest himself as the
only person who understood the real place of Prabhupada and ISKCON and
Krishna via some "new way of preaching" as Pishima called it. I can only
take that to refer to the internet.
Now I know Pratyatosh will deny this in his humility, but I think it's
time for all right thinking devotees to kick out the pretenders who
obviously killed Prabhupada so they could have sex with kids and install
Pratyatosh Prabhu as our living acharya. Pishima told me so and she
couldn't be wrong.
tsa
it is possible that there is someone because you believe it to be so?
"Ron & Keli Conroy" <chai...@home.com> wrote in message
news:iQPn5.1454$1T6....@news1.gvcl1.bc.home.com...
> > > To divert attention from an uncomfortable truth with a torrent
> > > of side issues is the tactic of the less intelligent. Women,
> > > for example, use it all the time.
> >
> > > I just don't like to see knee-jerk statements by neophyte devotees
> > > cluttering up this newsgroup. So I speak out in defense of senior
> > > devotees (sic) like Pratyatosa, Puranjana and Anon Amos.
> >
> > > You contradict advanced Vaisnavas who have been observing and
> > > contemplating events in the Vaisnava community for 30 years or more
> > > with your sentimental, half-baked opinions.
> >
> > > These are all symptoms of a very neophyte, fanatical young devotee.
> > > You would be well-advised to go back and study your sastra for some
> > > time before presumptuously attempting to best your betters.
> >
tsa
where tamala says he will not take srila prabhupada to the hospital:
Someone in the backround wispers "I can" or "I can't".
Before Krsna Das Babaji comes in the room Srila Prabhupada starts to speak.
Tamala: "Shut up Srila Prabhupada" (very clearly)
"Ananda das" <ana...@coastnet.com> wrote in message
news:ananda-ya02408000...@news.coastnet.com...
tsa
has been quoted as saying: "This seems to be something like the JFK
assassination conspiracy theories." "In this case it would seem that Tamal
Krishna is the person many would suspect." do the gbc, tamala, et al, have
balavanta corraborating on their idea that the poisoning issue is dead?
the "not (that i am) poisoned" book falsely assertes that balavanta's report
supports that srila prabhupada could not have died from arsenic poisoning.
yet in fact, Richard T. Callery, MD, FCAP, from Balavanta's report states:
"It is my opinion, to a reasonable degree of medical certainty, that this
individual [Srila Prabhupada],...would be an individual in frail health IN
WHICH A CHRONIC ADMINISTRATION OR EXPOSURE TO ARSENIC LEADING TO TOXIC
LEVELS WOULD BE EXPECTED TO BE A SIGNIFICANT CONTRIBUTING CONDITION TO HIS
DEATH."
"Ananda das" <ana...@coastnet.com> wrote in message news:ananda-
Pratyatosa Dasa
Pratyatosa Dasa <praty...@hotmail.com> wrote:
href="http://harekrsna.com/cgi-bin/postit?login=rocana&topic=lawsuit
>
/forum/forum&order=date&article=166">http://harekrsna.com/cgi-bi
>
n/postit?login=rocana&topic=lawsuit/forum/forum&order=date&a
> rticle=166</a>
>
> Subject: Re: Lawsuit is Prabhupada's Desire
> Date: Sun, Aug 22 2000 08:55
> From: Ashvattama dasa
>
>[...]
>
> The part that "Anon" has not revealed yet, but I feel it necessary to
> get out in the open now, is that Prabhupada's designated successor is
> none other than Pratyatosh Prabhu. Pishima gave me the clues and now
> they all fall into place. He would be a sincere devotee who was often
> misunderstood and thought crazy, especially by anyone who knew him.
> However, she told me, he would slowly but surely manifest himself as
the
> only person who understood the real place of Prabhupada and ISKCON and
> Krishna via some "new way of preaching" as Pishima called it. I can
only
> take that to refer to the internet.
>
> Now I know Pratyatosh will deny this in his humility, but I think it's
> time for all right thinking devotees to kick out the pretenders who
> obviously killed Prabhupada so they could have sex with kids and
install
> Pratyatosh Prabhu as our living acharya. Pishima told me so and she
> couldn't be wrong.
[Pratyatosa Dasa: It sounds to me like Pishima Prabhu didn't actually
name any names ("Pishima gave me the clues."), but my being the next
link in the disciplic succession is, I assume, simply Ashvattama
Prabhu's opinion.
I've been thinking for years now that the most likely candidate for a
new acharya would be someone from the third generation, who took ritvik
initiation from Srila Prabhupada. Didn't Srila Prabhupada say that the
third generation would be a generation of pure devotees? How can a
person such as myself, who was born into a meat eating family, ever be
any kind of an acharya in this lifetime?]
Pratyatosa Dasa
Dear PADA,
Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to His Divine Grace
Srila Prabhupada!
I was shocked by the anonymous letter regarding Pishima that appeared in
your 8/17 newsletter. Some pretty drastic statements were made, and a
lot of it didn't make sense to me for the following reasons:
1. Pishima did not speak English, so the person who had this
conversation with her must have spoken fluent Bengali.
2. If Pishima invited the person into her room in the Vrndavan
guesthouse, the person must have been a woman because it doesn't make
sense that Pishima would invite a man into her room since Pishima was a
very proper Vaisnavi lady.
[Pratyatosa Dasa: So, how could someone named "Ashvattama dasa", who no
one seems to have heard of, have had such a private conversation with
Pishima?]
3. How many "old disciples of Srila Prabhupada" (as the writer claims to
be) are there who are Bengali-speaking females?
4. When and where did Srila Prabhupada spend so much time alone with his
sister when he could have told her all these things?
5. The anonymous writer says, "Srila Prabhupada was totally disgusted
with his disciples' failure to understand his pure Vrajabasi mood" and
"He sacrificed his life so that his bogus disciples would be cut down
and stopped from preaching in the wrong way: from a neophyte platform."
The writer also states, "Srila Prabhupada had told her ...that he had
already picked one of his disciples to be his successor."
These statements all sound very much like the rhetoric we hear from
devotees who have become followers of persons from the Gaudiya Math and
Narayana Maharaja. These devotees seem to have developed a condescending
attitude towards us lowly followers of Srila Prabhupada and revel in
pointing out our "neophyte" status. Also, most importantly, Srila
Prabhupada always said that he WOULD NOT "pick a successor", that the
Guru is "self-effulgent." Regarding the mood displayed by Srila
Prabhupada during his time with us, to me he appeared like a Preaching
Lion in Lord Caitanya's transcendental army. This "pure Vrajabasi mood"
(whatever that means) is more the realm of the Gaudiya Matha and
Narayana Maharaja followers, is it not?
[Pratyatosa Dasa: But if "Anon Amos" is from the Gaudiya Math, and
trying to perpetrate a hoax, then why would he write: "...there was a
conspiracy among Srila Prabhupada's leading disciples and the Gaudiya
Math to murder him and take over the movement."?]
I have an old friend, who I have lost touch with for the past 10 years,
who was Pishima's personal servant in 1977 in Mayapur. She considered
Pishima to be a pure devotee, and Anonymous' letter just does not
correlate with what my friend told me about Pishima. I would like to
request that Anonymous come forward so that his/her story can be
corroborated since some very grave allegations have been made. If
Anonymous' letter is nothing more than a hoax, then it should be exposed
as fraudulent. How despicable it would be for someone to manufacture
these words and put them in our worshipable Pishima's mouth! Haven't we
who are struggling to cling to Srila Prabhupada's lotus feet suffered
enough heartbreak? No more, please!
Your servant, Dinadayadri dasi
************************ End of copied text ************************
mithya
Pratyatosa Dasa wrote in message <8o3t8q$b9j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I've been thinking for years now that the most likely candidate for a
>new acharya would be someone from the third generation, who took ritvik
>initiation from Srila Prabhupada. Didn't Srila Prabhupada say that the
>third generation would be a generation of pure devotees?
I have heard this also, but is it just a "Prabhupada says..." false quote?
I couldn't find a reference in the Vedabase. Does anyone have the correct
quote?
>How can a
>person such as myself, who was born into a meat eating family, ever be
>any kind of an acharya in this lifetime?]
Gee, take a week or so off and just see what gets past ya...
Here' what His Divine Grace had to say about your birth...
"...Such a person is called an acarya because he knows the principles of
devotional service, he behaves in that way himself, and he teaches his
disciples to follow in his footsteps. Thus he is an acarya or jagad-guru.
Even though a person is born in a brahminical family and is very expert in
performing sacrifices, he cannot be accepted as a guru if he is not a strict
Vaisnava. A guru is a brahmana by qualification, and he can turn others into
brahmanas according to the sastric principles and brahminical
qualifications. Brahmanism is not a question of heredity....The most
important criterion for deciding whether to deal with someone as a brahmana
or as a member of another varna is the presence or absence of self-control
and similar brahminical qualities. We should not judge primarily according
to superficial characteristics like birth. This is stated in the verse
beginning yasya [Bhag. 7.11.35]. If the qualities of one varna are seen in
someone born in another, he should be designated according to the varna of
his qualities, not that of his birth.” (Madhya lila 24.330)
Not that that makes you the "new acarya" How could someone who supports a
lawsuit that accuses Srila Prabhupada of being at the heart of a conspiracy
to cover up and encourage child abuse and torture be an acarya?
mithya
Ron & Keli Conroy
thats a mouthful of statements about stuff !!!
tsa <t...@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:sq8th3...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > In article <8nhcht$ha0$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, one devotee
> > > <dasa...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > of side issues is the tactic of the less intelligent. Women,
> > > > for example, use it all the time.
> > >
> > > > cluttering up this newsgroup. So I speak out in defense of senior
> > >
> > > > You contradict advanced Vaisnavas who have been observing and
> > > > contemplating events in the Vaisnava community for 30 years or more
> > > > with your sentimental, half-baked opinions.
> > >
> > > > time before presumptuously attempting to best your betters.
> > >
Ron & Keli Conroy
&, quote," I have elaborately demonstrated my own fault finding nature"
Typical ISKCON rethoric of attack,& kill, & then comes the humility..the
pamho's prahu..
The material world basically means, lets all be self rightious to each other
& in this way stay in entrapped...
Do as I say,but not as I do ,philosophy..with more obeisances etc..
what does "t s a" stand for ? ? ? --
bye
satyahit das baulite
> > > > of side issues is the tactic of the less intelligent. Women,
> > > > for example, use it all the time.
> > >
> > > > cluttering up this newsgroup. So I speak out in defense of senior
> > >
> > > > You contradict advanced Vaisnavas who have been observing and
> > > > contemplating events in the Vaisnava community for 30 years or more
> > > > with your sentimental, half-baked opinions.
> > >
> > > > time before presumptuously attempting to best your betters.
> > >