REPOST: From Warrior: The Life History Form used by Sea Org
CLKates
its members--which isn't hard when all Sea Org members and most Class V Org
staffers are required to complete the following invasive form. (I have 2
floating around Scn myself.)
Even though it's not copyrighted, she is still attempting to intimidate a
netizen--BatChild--into removing this. So, here's what Helena doesn't want
*you* to see:
(I webbed this myself at http://members.aol.com/clkates/lifehistory.txt.)
Thanks, Warrior, again, for posting this!
Charlotte
---------------REPOST FOLLOWS------------
From: war...@electrotex.com (Warrior)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Life Hstory form used by Sea Org
Date: 20 Aug 1997 20:13:31 -0700
Organization: None
Lines: 218
Message-ID: <1997082103...@etex.electrotex.com>
Reply-To: war...@electrotex.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I thought I would post this "Life History" form which was used
in PAC while I was in the Sea Org. The form is NOT copyrighted.
The form below is a true copy of a typewritten copy that was given
to me by the Ethics Officer of the org. My answers have been omitted
in this posting. Sorry! :-) I kept a copy of this form (and my
answers) because I had been requested to complete one so often that
I grew tired of answering the same questions over and over again.
It is a very time consuming action to honestly complete this form.
And since we were required to attest that it was true and correct,
I did fill this form out accurately.
I humbly request anyone who feels I am a coward to complete this
form yourself and mail it to the Office of Special Affairs of
Scientology. Note that members not only divulge information about
themselves, but about family, friends, employers and spouses too!
There is DAMNED LITTLE Scientology does NOT KNOW about me. Between
the information disclosed on this form and the information members
divulge in "confessionals", "integrity processing", "counselling
sessions", and other "auditing actions", is it any wonder SO FEW
ex-Scientologists ever speak out about injustices, abuses, illegalities,
etc. witnessed while in the Sea Org? Who amongst us has not sinned?
I stand naked before Scientology.
Warrior
*******
Life History
Name: _______________________ Date ________________________
today:
ASHO D Post ________________________
AOLA (Answer questions on separate paper and attach)
PART I
1. Do you have a psychiatric/institutional history, or have
you ever been a social worker, psychologist or counselor
of any kind? Have you practiced any kind of group therapy?
A. If yes to any of the above, give time, place,
form, event and full details.
2. Have you ever had a willing connection to a squirrel group
or suppressive group?
A. If yes, give full details.
3. Have you ever blown from any Scientology or Sea
Organization? (even if only for a day)?
A. If yes, give full details.
4. Are you connected to anyone antagonistic to Scientology?
A. If yes, give full details.
5. Have you ever threatened or attacked Scientology?
A. If yes, give full details.
6. Have you ever been expelled from the Church?
A. If yes, give full details.
7. Do you have a criminal history of any kind?
A. If yes, give full details (time, place, form,
event).
8. Have you taken illegal drugs?
9. Have you completed the Drug Rundown? When?
10. Have you ever taken drugs since being in Scientology?
A. If yes, please state what drugs you took, and what
training and/or auditing you'd had, when and where
and under what circumstances you took the drugs.
11. Have you ever threatened or attempted suicide?
A. If yes, please give full details.
PART II
1. SCIENTOLOGY AND DIANETIC TRAINING.
Please list in chronological order exactly which Tech and
Admin training you have done. List should be date of
completion, Month and year. (For any courses not
completed, please give the date you started the courses
and note that they are incomplete.)
2. PROCESSING. Please list in chronological order exactly what
processing you have had. Give the date (month/year) you completed all
actions and the date of starting any action which is not
complete. Include OT sections and any major rundowns.
PART III
1. When and where were you born?
2. Education: Please list in chronological order, beginning
with your earliest schooling, every school you have
attended. Use the headings as illustrated below
. DATES NAME OF SCHOOL LOCATION MAJOR STUDY
3. Employment: Please list in chronological order all jobs
you have held beginning with your first job. Please
explain what you were doing during any period of
unemployment. Use headings.
4. Medical history: Please list in chronological order any
illness, accidents, permanent injury, etc, you have had,
from birth to PT by month and year. Include all childhood
illnesses (i.e. mumps, measels, chicken pox, etc). List
the names and location of any hospitals and sanitoria you
have been in. State also the approximate frequency that
you have had colds, aches and regular pains during you
life, with the time periods. List also any corrective
surgery you have had and where done.
5. Please list your parents' names and adresses (or
guardian).
6. Please list your parents' PT occupation, and any other
jobs they might have held. Give a brief description of the
type of work they did, the name of the corporation, etc.
7. What is your attitude towards your parents, and what do
you think of them? How do they regard you?
8. Please list the names and adresses of your brothers and
sisters (if any), and what their job history is, where
they live and with who. What is your attitude towards
them?
9. List your friends (even prior to Scientology) and what
sort of relationship you had, and what sort of jobs they
held and are holding now. Also please state what your comm
has consisted of since being in Scientology.
10. What is your marital status? Please list the name of your
present spouse and any past spouses (in chronologica
l order if more than one), when you married him/her and
where. List also the dates of any separations and/or
divorces and why. (Give month/year for all dates and
maiden names where applicable.)
11. Give a general 2-D history for yourself, including your
earliest sexual experience of any kind, when you started
dating, and the names of all persons involved. Make a
chronological list by month/year of the names of all
persons with whom you have had sexual relationships and
what you engaged in. Approximate the number of times you
carried on any kind of activity, and note any perversions
you engaged in: WHO, WHAT, HOW OFTEN. Be as complete as
you can.
12. Note any instances of homosexual activity from earliest
time to PT. Give WHO, WHAT and HOW OFTEN.
13. List names and ages of children you have.
14. List your interests and hobbies.
15. List all groups and organizations you have ever been
associated with. Include time period, name of group, its
location, what type of group, and what you did in it.
16. List any connections to terminals listed in the following
groups. A. Intelligence organizations B.
Organized medicine C. Banking industry D. The Media
E. Goverment
F. Public Relation Firms G. Psychiatry,
psychiatrists, psychologists, etc.
PART IV
1. How did you get into Scientology? Include who introduced
you, where and when and what this person is doing now.
2. When and were did you first start on staff in a
Scientology mission or organization?
3. Please list in chronological order all posts you have held
in any Scientology organization and mission. Use headings.
4. Please list any MAJOR ETHICS ACTIONS YOU HAVE HAD, good
and bad, and explain it fully.
5. To what org are you contracted and for how long?
PART V
1. Please list all drugs you have taken, including medicine
with month/yr time periods as closely as possible. Use
headings as in the illustration below
. DATE DRUG APPROX # OF TIMES
PART VI
1. Please give exact details concerning your current life:
whom you live with, whom you spent your free time with or
run around with, etc. What is your daily routine, what do
you do with your leisure time?
-------
If you are in the SO put down your rank and rating. Sea Org Training?
(include date) AB, SWBP, SOSS, PROD 0,I,II,III ore more? What class
missionaire? 3rd, 2nd, 1st? Are you mission eligible?
List out any missions you were on with what conditions and when that
mission was. Also what position you held on the mission. (IC, etc.)
Please attest the data is true and correct.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Charlotte Kates(SP4,KoX) members.aol.com/clkates "It is time for Scientologists
to hold Miscavige accountable for his failed leadership.To support your
cause,critics can and will help you.We are here to help you regain the dignity
you once had"-Bob Minton
BANALITYBO
>Org
>From: clk...@aol.com (CLKates)
>Date: Sat, Sep 12, 1998 01:06 EDT
>Message-id: <199809120506...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
>Helena Kobrin doesn't want people to see the database Scientology compiles on
>its members--which isn't hard when all Sea Org members and most Class V Org
>staffers are required to complete the following invasive form. (I have 2
>floating around Scn myself.)
>
>Even though it's not copyrighted,
.....rest of form snipped....
Is this Life Form required of Publics taking courses?
Or only of staff members?
In either event, one ad in the WSJ or NYTimes reprinting this non-copyrighted
form, with a VERY short introduction as to its requirement and use within COS,
would be devestating to curtailing future membership, and general wog
education, without further commentary.
In spite of popular belief, most *can* think for themselves in the John Q.
Public arena.
Banalitybo.
Thomas Fielder
banal...@aol.com (BANALITYBO) wrote:
> ><HTML><PRE>Subject: REPOST: From Warrior: The Life History Form used by Sea
> >Org
> >From: clk...@aol.com (CLKates)
> >Date: Sat, Sep 12, 1998 01:06 EDT
> >Message-id: <199809120506...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
> >
> >Helena Kobrin doesn't want people to see the database Scientology compiles on
> >its members--which isn't hard when all Sea Org members and most Class V Org
> >staffers are required to complete the following invasive form. (I have 2
> >floating around Scn myself.)
> >
> >Even though it's not copyrighted,
>
> .....rest of form snipped....
>
>
> Is this Life Form required of Publics taking courses?
>
> Or only of staff members?
It was not required when I joined staff of a CofS mission in 1975, and it
was never required for public on any of the courses I have taken in the
70's or the 90's.
Tom
SB
>Is this Life Form required of Publics taking courses?
No. Though public who've advanced into the OT levels have divulged
all of this information through eligibility and other sec checking.
>Or only of staff members?
Sea Org staff only, not Class V org staff.
- SB
Mike O'Connor
tjfi...@earthlink.net (Thomas Fielder) wrote:
> In article <199809121622...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
> banal...@aol.com (BANALITYBO) wrote:
>
> > ><HTML><PRE>Subject: REPOST: From Warrior: The Life History Form used by Sea
> > >Org
> > >From: clk...@aol.com (CLKates)
> > >Date: Sat, Sep 12, 1998 01:06 EDT
> > >Message-id: <199809120506...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
> > >
> > >Helena Kobrin doesn't want people to see the database Scientology
compiles on
> > >its members--which isn't hard when all Sea Org members and most Class V Org
> > >staffers are required to complete the following invasive form. (I have 2
> > >floating around Scn myself.)
> > >
> > >Even though it's not copyrighted,
> >
> > .....rest of form snipped....
> >
> >
> > Is this Life Form required of Publics taking courses?
> >
> > Or only of staff members?
>
> It was not required when I joined staff of a CofS mission in 1975, and it
> was never required for public on any of the courses I have taken in the
> 70's or the 90's.
>
> Tom
Here is a post which deconstructed the contract. Cult official Warren
McShane submitted the contract to the court in an exhibit.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: hkhe...@netcom.com (Keith Henson)
Subject: Re: Possible Evidence of Malpractice in COS
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:25:45 GMT
Message-ID: <hkhensonD...@netcom.com>
[My snips are marked with [...] the rest are part of the message. -Mike]
[...]
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
RELIGIOUS TECHNOLOGY CENTER, a ) Case No. C-96-20271RMW
California non-profit corporation, )
Plaintiff, ) REPLY TO SECOND
) DECLARATION OF WARREN
v. ) L. MCSHANE
H. KEITH HENSON, an individual, )
Defendant. )
-----------------------------------
By filing the SECOND DECLARATION OF WARREN L. MCSHANE
IN SUPPORT OF PLAINTIFF'S MOTION FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION,
plaintiff has provided defendant with an opportunity to
discuss criminal and fraudulent aspects exposed in plaintiff's
declaration, Exhibit A and Exhibit B.
[...]
Defendant's response to Plaintiff's Exhibit A of
the above declaration will use "Usenet style" quoting. Lines
of original text from Exhibit A are prefixed by the character
">". Defendant notes that plaintiff's "Release" to take
*religious services* is 8 single spaced pages.
>Church of Scientology Western United States Advanced
>Organization of Los Angeles (hereafter referred to as "the
>Church") Religious Services Enrollment Application/Agreement
>and General Release I______________________ HEREBY
>ACKNOWLEDGE that I am voluntarily applying to participate in
>the RELIGIOUS SERVICE(S) known
>as__________________________________________(hereinafter
>referred to as the "Service"), in exchange for being
>permitted to participate in the Service, I acknowledge and
>agree as follows:
> 1. Scientology has been represented to me as an
>applied religious philosophy and as a religion . . . .
[snip definition]
> 2. The American author and philosopher L. Ron
>Hubbard ("LRH" hereinafter) is the founder of the Scientology
>religion. His writings . . . .
[snip LRH intro]
>practicing medical arts or sciences. If you have come here
>to be cured of a physical illness, see the registrar and so
>inform her so that she can arrange for a competent medical
>examination and treatment. When you are physically well, you
>can begin Scientology training and processing on your road to
>total freedom.
The above is disclaimer #1.
> 3. The writings of LRH are presented as a part
>of the record of his research and should be construed only
>as a written report of such research and not as a statement
>of claims by the Church or by LRH.
Disclaimer #2
>None of the organizations which espouse, present, propagate
>or practice the Scientology religion makes any claim that the
>nature or purpose of Scientology, or of Dianetics, or the
>writings of LRH, is contrary to this description or that the
>application of this or any other Scientology practices will
>have any particular effect on any particular person.
Disclaimer #3
> Thus the Church makes no claims as to the results
>which may be forthcoming from the Service scientology Policy
>Directive 13 March 1996, Statements by Staff Members, (which
>is available upon request) makes it clear that claims about
>the religion by staff members are not valid.
Disclaimer #4 and a pointer to yet more disclaimers.
Defendant will request a copy of this document as well
as all previous versions in discovery.
> 4. Scientology applied religious philosophy
>contains pastoral counseling procedures intended to assist
>an individual to gain greater knowledge of self. The
>Scientology religion is all-denominational and welcomes
>members of all faiths to participate in its services.
The statement "all-denominational" is provably
fraudulent. At the upper levels, Scientology is incompatible
with Christian and Islam sects. Defendant cites three
sources: a transcription of a tape by Hubbard, a short clip
from *Road to Xenu* by Margery Wakefield, and a section from a
book by Jon Atack.
In addition, there is a widely available audio tape of
Hubbard's statement on the topic in his own voice.
In draft defendant had this evidence of fraud inserted
at this point. Defendant removed material supporting
defendant's claims of fraud by plaintiff for fear of citing
forbidden "AT" material. Defendant knows "fair use" of NOTs
and other AT material is permitted, but given defendants
evident disagreement with the Court, is reluctant to use this
material even in defendant's defense. The statement from
*Road to Xenu* "There was no Christ" can be found on page 117.
[snip]
> Accordingly, the Church makes no claims as to the
>potential benefits which may be experienced by an individual
>from participation in the Service.
Disclaimer #5
> 5. I have seen the film "Orientation" and I am
>now informed and aware that Scientology is a religion, its
>teachings are religious and its claims are religious in
>nature. I further understand that if I desire to
>participate in Scientology services, I do so being fully
>aware that these are religious services and that I am
>participating in Them under the ecclesiastical principles of
>the Scientology religion.
Defendant will ask for copy of "Orientation" on tape
or film.
Legal lead in to what comes below.
> 6. The many Scientology Churches, Missions and
>organizations all over the world are each totally and legally
>independent from one another, connected only by
>ecclesiastical bonds. Accordingly, the Service is being
>offered under the exclusive supervision and control of the
>above-named Church.
This is an attempt to compartmentalize potential legal
losses to one of the corporate shells, while money flows from
non-profit units to the profit making ones. Money and use of
property is believed by defendant to inure to the benefit of a
small group at the top.
Defendant's argument that Scientology is a criminal
enterprise would be confirmed by showing that plaintiff's
group of corporations bankrupted one such corporate shell by
asset transfers to avoid paying a 5 million dollar judgment
which has exhausted all appeals. The real head of all
Scientology enterprises, David Miscavige (if he can be located
or served through his lawyers) will be deposed about the
criminal and fraudulent activities involved in asset stripping
to avoid payment of a judicially determined debt. (Wollersheim
case.)
> 7. The Service may include the use of a
>religious artifact known as the "E-Meter," for the primary
>purpose of locating and resolving problems and difficulties
>which are spiritual in nature. I understand that by itself
>the E-Meter does nothing, but serves only as a guide to
>ministers of the Church to assist parishioners in locating
>areas of spiritual distress or travail, and that it is not
>intended or effective for the diagnosis, treatment or
>prevention of any disease, or for the improvement of health
>or any bodily function.
Required by Judge Gesell's order (333 F. Supp. 357).
(But see the section below from plaintiff's Exhibit B.)
> 8. In connection with the Service, the Church
>may compile a folder containing its notations of my
>spiritual progress, known as a "Preclear Folder" (PC
>Folder), as well as other ecclesiastical files containing
>notations regarding my spiritual progress. The contents of
>the folders are kept confidential from persons who lack the
>ecclesiastical authority to gain access to such documents,
>including the person whom the files concern, and are subject
>to the priest-penitent privilege. I understand that as a
>condition of being accepted for participation in the Service,
>I am giving up any and all rights of ownership, possession
>and control, copying and viewing of the PC Folder and other
>files concerning myself, both with respect to the files
>themselves and the information contained therein.
Defendant notes that in the above, a person gives up
their right to recover notes about confessions of crimes in
this and "past lives" and other embarrassing matters from
Scientology. Defendant is aware of many cases on the Internet
where the material from these folders seems to have been used
to "dead agent" or character assassinate former
Scientologists. Defendant cites Steve Fishman as an extreme
example. The threat of using this material is enough to keep
many former Scientologists from speaking out about extremely
abusive experiences within the "Church" of Scientology. See
also defendant's attached Exhibit A, "The Road to Xenu" by
Margery Wakefield starting on page 156. If the Court and
counsel permit, defendant will supply one copy to the Court on
paper, and the remaining copies on diskette. (Defendant is
reluctant to introduce this document. Reading it, even in
small pieces, has been a wrenching experience.)
> 9. I understand and acknowledge that because of
>constitutional prohibitions which forbid governmental
>interference with religious services or dispute resolution
>procedures, that in the event I have any dispute, claim or
>controversy with the Church including, but not limited to
>any dispute, claim or controversy arising under this
>Application/Agreement or in connection with my participation
>in the Service, which cannot be resolved informally by
>direct communication, resolution of that dispute, claim or
>controversy may be pursued solely through the internal
>procedures of the Church's Ethics, Justice and Binding
>Religious Arbitration system.
Defendant believes the above sentence to be a blatant
*criminal* attempt to mislead gullible victims of fraud, and
thus it is an issue made relevant and triable in this case.
Defendant will be very interested the Court's comments on
these "constitutional prohibitions."
It is defendant's belief that no such "constitutional
prohibitions" exist or there would not be regularly reported
stories in the news media about Roman Catholic priests who
have been both prosecuted criminally and sued in the courts
for sexual abuse. But defendant is not well versed in the law
and concedes that plaintiff might prevail on this triable
issue.
> Moreover, I hereby expressly
>agree that any controversy arising under this
>Application/Agreement or in connection with my participation
>in the Service shall be resolved by such Binding Religious
>Arbitration.
And, if the Court reads further, the Court will find
that the so called "arbitration" process is fraudulent scam,
full of delays and criminally stacked against the person
seeking "services" in favor of the Scientology "org."
> I understand and acknowledge that the Church's
>religious dispute resolution procedure includes application
>to senior ecclesiastical bodies, including, as necessary,
>final submission of the dispute to the International Justice
>Chief of the Mother Church - Church of Scientology
>International - ("IJC") or his designate. Any dispute, claim
>or controversy which still remains unresolved after
>submission to the IJC shall be submitted to Binding Religious
>Arbitration in accordance with the published arbitration
>procedures of Church of Scientology International, which
>provide that:
> a. I shall submit a request for arbitration to
>the IJC with a copy to the Church, and shall designate one
>arbitrator with my request:
> b. Within fifteen (15) days after receiving the
>request for arbitration, the Church shall designate an
>arbitrator. If the Church has not designated an arbitrator
>within fifteen (15) days, then the IJC shall designate the
>second arbitrator.
> c. The two arbitrators so designated shall
>select a third arbitrator within fifteen (15) days after the
>designation of the second arbitrator. If the arbitrators
>are unable to designate a third arbitrator within the
>fifteen (15) day period, then the IJC shall choose such
>arbitrator. Consistent with the intent that the arbitration
>be conducted in accordance with Scientology principles of
>justice and fairness, and consistent with the ecclesiastical
>nature of the procedures and the dispute, claim or
>controversy to which such procedures relate, all arbitrators
>shall be Scientologists in good standing with the Mother
>Church.
> IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RELIGIOUS NATURE OF THE
>SERVICES TO BE PROVIDED, I ACKNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTAND AND AGREE
>THAT IN NO EVENT SHALL ANY DISPUTE, CLAIM OR CONTROVERSY
>ARISING OUT OF MY PARTICIPATION IN THE SERVICE BE SUBMITTED
>TO A COURT FOR JUDICIAL DETERMINATION. MOREOVER, I UNDERSTAND
>AND AGREE THAT BY SIGNING AND SUBMITTING THIS
>APPLICATION/AGREEMENT, I AM WAIVING ANY RIGHT WHICH I MAY
>HAVE TO HAVE SUCH DISPUTES, CLAIMS OR CONTROVERSIES DECIDED
>IN A COURT OF LAW, BEFORE A JUDGE OR A JUDGE AND JURY
Defendant claims before this Court that the above
statement submitted into evidence by the plaintiff is further
evidence of criminal intent to defraud the person signing this
release into thinking they have given up their right to seek
redress from the courts. To the considerable extent that
Scientology practices medicine, they are also trying to
subvert the signer's rights to file a malpractice suit.
> 10. I further understand, acknowledge and agree
>that the Church is under no duty whatsoever to return any
>portion of any religious donation received from me.
>However, I further understand and acknowledge that under
>certain circumstances provided for in the published
>ecclesiastical policies specifically including Scientology
>Policy Directive 13 March 1996, Return of Donations, (which
>is available upon request) and procedures of the Claims
>Verification Board, a return of donations may be obtained
>through my strict compliance with those published policies
>and procedures.
Defendant will request a copy of this referenced
document as well as all previous versions in discovery. It is
defendant's expectation that this document will show the same
fraudulent and criminal intent.
> I further acknowledge and agree that such
>procedures require my direct participation to the exclusion
>of any third parties, including, but not limited to,
>attorneys, and that such returns of donations are exclusively
>within the ecclesiastical authority of the Claims
>Verification Board and at the sole discretion of the Church.
Defendant believes this to be evidence of a fraudulent
and criminal attempt to subvert the legal right of the person
signing the release to be represented by counsel.
> I further understand, acknowledge and agree that any
>violation of or deviation from such published policies or
>this paragraph by me voids any possibility of my receiving a
>return of donation.
A *further* attempt to subvert the right to counsel.
In cases where people who sign this contract for "services,"
later decide they are being bilked and try to get some of
their money back, plaintiff's corporate organizations stall
and throw up one block after another.
Defendant knows of only one case reported on the
Internet where a person was successful in getting money for
unused "services" returned. The person was Ted Mayet of Las
Vegas. It took him weeks of threats, regularly reported on
alt.religion.scientology, and finally picketing before his
money was returned. An affidavit will be filed to verify his
account.
> 11. I understand, acknowledge and agree that I
>am applying for the Service with the intention of
>self-improvement and spiritual advancement. Accordingly,
>before I go on to a further service, it is essential that I
>am completely satisfied with the results I obtained from my
>prior service.
Defendant is informed and believes that even if the
person signing this contract has had a miserable time they are
*required* to put in writing that they were satisfied *as part
of the "service."* Further more, these "services" are by the
hour, and "passing" one is at the discretion of the "auditor."
A person may be coerced into additional payments, sometimes
tens of thousands of dollars to meet the above condition.
> I further understand and acknowledge (I) that while
>the Church holds out the possibility of a better life through
>adherence to its beliefs and practices, individual spiritual
>advancement is not always an easy or comfortable task, and
>(ii) that my success in Scientology ultimately depends on my
>own ability, strength and determination to overcome the
>shortcomings and harmful patterns of my past.
Disclaimer #7--and (possibly) a reference to the "past lives"
members are required to confabulate under induced hypnotic
states.
> 12. I understand, acknowledge and agree that the
>Service is designed to give spiritual aid, is not medical
>treatment, nor is it designed to provide any physical gains.
Disclaimer #8
> I am also aware that I should not participate in
>the Service if I have a physical or emotional condition which
>would be aggravated by participation in the Service or make
>the Service activities particularly uncomfortable or
>distressful to me.
A significant fraction of the people who take the
upper division "services" such as OT3 become "Potential
Trouble Sources type 3," or, in the vernacular, barking mad.
(See page 174 and following in *Road to Xenu*.) Such people
are then subjected to illegal confinement by Scientology staff
*without proper medical treatment* or human contact and their
account may be docked for the "Introspection" rundown
(lockup).
Defendant will take the risk that this document may
"AT" and introduce a shortened version of HCO BULLETIN OF 23
JANUARY 1974RB REVISED 25 APRIL 1991 as defendant's Exhibit B.
Exhibit B clearly describes how Scientology *practices
medicine* on those unfortunate enough to go psychotic while
taking "service." The "treatment" described on the bottom of
page 3 and the top of page 4 consists of isolation and giving
vitamins and minerals. See also page 7 and 11 under the
heading ISOLATION. Defendant will request copies of this
document in all historical versions from plaintiff during
discovery to be introduced as evidence of plaintiff's abusive
"medical" practice at trial.
Defendant also introduces Exhibit C, an incomplete,
unfinished draft version of a report in process created by
FactNet. It is introduced as draft because the plaintiff
disrupted work on it in violation of USC 42 section 2000aa.
This report lists the unfortunate outcomes of a sample of
those who were taking the "services" for which the plaintiff's
exhibit A is a "release."
> Knowing this, I am voluntarily participating in the
>Service with knowledge of the general activities involved and
>I HEREBY AGREE TO ACCEPT ANY AND ALL KNOWN OR UNKNOWN RISKS
>OF INJURY, LOSS, OR DAMAGE.
Disclaimer #9.
Defendant is informed and believes that those signing
this "release" often *do not* have "knowledge of the general
activities involved."
Defendant makes note in passing that "taking religious
services" from Scientology requires a level of disclaimers
more in line with what a concessionaire might require to go
over Niagara Falls in a barrel.
> 13. I acknowledge that I am making this
>application to be permitted to participate in the Service on
>my own determinism, recognizing that I am personally
>responsible for my present and future condition in life, and
>attest that I have no record of being committed in an
>institution for mental or emotional disorders, nor do I have
>a criminal record for a felony offense.
If the person purchasing the service has money they
will waive this clause. They did for Steven Fishman.
Defendant may call Steven Fishman as a witness at trial and
will provide an affidavit supporting defendant's contention
that Scientology will wave this clause.
> I am not connected with any person (such as
>marital or familial ties) of known antagonism to spiritual
>treatment or Scientology, nor have I or any member of my
>immediate family ever threatened to sue, embarrass or attack
>Scientology, nor have I or any of my immediate family ever
>been a party to such an attack.
If the person *is* connected to such a family member,
they are required to "disconnect" from that person and have no
further contact. (See details of this process in *Road to
Xenu,* starting at the end of page 92 where Margery was forced
to sever contact with her family.) Defendant concedes that
breaking up families is not criminal, just one of the most
disgusting things Scientology does.
> I further attest that I am not attempting to
>investigate Scientology as a representative of the news
>media, a government body or other organization, entity or
>person.
This is an attempt to prevent lawful and badly needed
investigations by law enforcement agencies and reporters.
Defendant is not sure if such provisions are criminal, but
they certainly show intent to prevent criminal activity from
being exposed.
> Rather, I am applying to participate in the
>Service to achieve spiritual betterment, and I truly believe
>that persons can be helped to gain greater understanding and
>happiness in life, and I am applying honestly and in good
>faith to derive all possible personal gain from the Service.
> 14. This application for permission to
>participate in the Service will become a legally binding
>agreement between myself and the Church only upon its
>acceptance by the Church. In determining whether to accept
>this application, the Church will rely on the
>representations and promises which I have made herein. AS
>FURTHER CONSIDERATION for being permitted by the Church to
>participate in the Service and use its facilities and other
>facilities provided for such purpose:
> I. I, ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AND ON BEHALF OF MY
>HEIRS, DISTRIBUTEES, LEGAL REPRESENTATIVES AND ASSIGNS, AGREE
>NOT TO MAKE CLAIMS AGAINST, SUE, ATTACH THE PROPERTY OF OR
>PROSECUTE the Church, the successors and assignees of L. Ron
>Hubbard, Religious Technology Center and its principals, the
>Church of Scientology International, and any affiliated
>Churches, Missions, corporations, associations, partnerships
>or organizations, and/or their officers, directors. trustees,
>agents, servants, successors, heirs, executors or
>representatives, and/or the owners, managers, employees,
>agents or representatives of, or associated with, any
>facilities conducting the Service (hereinafter collectively
>referred to as "the Releasees") for physical, mental or
>emotional injury or property damage resulting from the
>negligence or other acts, howsoever caused, of any Releasee
>or of any employee, agent or contractor of the Church, its
>affiliates, or other Releasee, in any way relating to my
>participation in the Service.
Disclaimer #10
Defendant believes that this disclaimer is
unenforceable, and it may even be unlawful to issue. With
respect to determining the criminality of plaintiff, the
legality of this paragraph is a relevant triable issue.
> II. IN ADDITION, I HEREBY RELEASE AND DISCHARGE
>THE RELEASEES from all actions, claims or demands I, my
>heirs, distributees, guardians, legal representatives or
>assigns now have or may hereafter have for physical, mental
>or emotional injury or property damage resulting in any way
>from my participation in the Service.
Defendant believe that Scientology has a serious
problem with "service takers" becoming psychotic and/or
committing suicide from the internal mental stresses resulting
from having paid tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars
*and* invested a substantial number of years to learn the
space opera "Xenu" story. (Already cited page 174 in *Road to
Xenu*.) Defendant's Exhibit C, 6 pages cut from an
anonymously published document "Hollywood, Scientology,
Satanism Suicide" contains a partial list of known suicides
and psychotic breakdowns.
> III. I FURTHER AGREE TO INDEMNIFY AND SAVE AND
>HOLD HARMLESS THE RELEASEES and each of them from any loss,
>liability, damage or cost they may incur due to my
>participation in the Service and/or due to my presence or
>action in or about the Church premises or the facilities
>provided for the Service.
Defendant contends Plaintiff's family of shell
corporations is trying in this paragraph to evade criminal
responsibility for the medical bills a "service taker" runs up
while confined to a mental ward. A substantial fraction of
victims in such a situation will have transferred all of their
assets--tax free--to Scientology and thus become indigent
problems for the state.
> IV. [snip--severability]
> V. I further understand, acknowledge and agree
>that this Application/Agreement contains everything that the
>Church or Church representative and I have addressed or
>discussed with respect to the religious services set forth
>in this Application/Agreement. It is our only agreement
>about those religious services, and exclusively sets forth
>the obligations of the Church and me with respect to such
>religious services.
Defendant interprets this paragraph as showing
fraudulent intent to quietly slip the verbal sales pitch--on
which the person purchasing the service was sold--under the
table. The Court may be interested to know that internal
"Church" of Scientology terminology for such persons "taking
service" is "bodies in the shop."
> I HAVE CAREFULLY READ THIS APPLICATION/AGREEMENT AND
>GENERAL RELEASE AND FULLY UNDERSTAND ITS CONTENTS AND
>CONSEQUENCES. I AM AWARE THAT BY SIGNING BELOW, I AM FOREVER
>GIVING UP MY RIGHT TO SUE THE CHURCH, ITS STAFF AND/OR OTHER
>SCIENTOLOGY-RELATED ORGANIZATIONS FOR ANY INJURY OR DAMAGE
>SUFFERED IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH THE SERVICE ACTIVITIES.
As above, this clause is designed to control people
who become troublesome, and is of entirely fraudulent intent.
[snip remainder]
[...]
H. Keith Henson
[...]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-Mike
Censored by Scientology
--
"You can privately agree, you know to do anything that's legal. You can
privately agree to give up a right that you have, in order, uh, to receive
a benefit of some sort and this happens all the time."
-- Cult lawyer Helena Kobrin, in a C-SPAN discussion
on intellectual property and the Internet
Oct. 4, 1995
Beverly
> No. Though public who've advanced into the OT levels have divulged
> all of this information through eligibility and other sec checking.
This is something that people who have not ever been affiliated
with Co$ don't realize, the continuous barrage of forms with
all kinds of personal data that is required to be answered before
you can start anything.
Between the questionaires, the actual courses which many times
require very personal questions to be answered, sec-checks, talks
with the Ethics officers, responding to KR's filed on you, forms
to be filled out for all different services . . . it ends up that
the Co$ has files and files of your personal history already
neatly tucked away.
Beverly
CLKates
>
>Sea Org staff only, not Class V org staff.
>
specific.
Charlotte
Roland
BANALITYBO wrote:
>
> ><HTML><PRE>Subject: REPOST: From Warrior: The Life History Form used by Sea
> >Org
> >From: clk...@aol.com (CLKates)
> >Date: Sat, Sep 12, 1998 01:06 EDT
> >Message-id: <199809120506...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
> >
> >Helena Kobrin doesn't want people to see the database Scientology compiles on
> >its members--which isn't hard when all Sea Org members and most Class V Org
> >staffers are required to complete the following invasive form. (I have 2
> >floating around Scn myself.)
> >
> >Even though it's not copyrighted,
>
> .....rest of form snipped....
>
> Is this Life Form required of Publics taking courses?
>
> Or only of staff members?
Only Sea Org members.
> In either event, one ad in the WSJ or NYTimes reprinting this non-copyrighted
> form, with a VERY short introduction as to its requirement and use within COS,
> would be devestating to curtailing future membership, and general wog
> education, without further commentary.
>
> In spite of popular belief, most *can* think for themselves in the John Q.
> Public arena.
>
> Banalitybo.
Roland
--
Watch the Xemu Cartoon: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/xemurams/
Visit Xemu's Home Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/index2.html
Also the incomparable Operation Clambake: http://www.xenu.net/
The TRUE story of Hubbard: http://www.primenet.com/~lippard/bfm/
Hubbard's "No Christ": http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/rams/Nochrist.ram
The famous Xenu flyer: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/flyers/Xemu.html
L. Ron Hubbard - A Profile: http://www.xs4all.nl/~xemu/RonSez.html
Herculstud
>>
>> Is this Life Form required of Publics taking courses?
>>
>> Or only of staff members?
>
Roland wrote
>Only Sea Org members.
>
I had to fill one of these out as classIV org staff training at ASHO....Iwas
not Sea Org
But I don't know of any public filling these out.
Martin Hunt
hercu...@aol.com (Herculstud) wrote:
>>> Is this Life [History] Form required of Publics taking courses?
>>>
>>> Or only of staff members?
>Roland wrote: [incorrectly]
>>Only Sea Org members.
>>
>
>I had to fill one of these out as classIV org staff training at ASHO....I
>was not Sea Org
Ditto.
--
Cogito, ergo sum. Just the FAQs: http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~av282/
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Catarina Pamnell
clk...@aol.com (CLKates) wrote:
> SB wrote:
> >
> >Sea Org staff only, not Class V org staff.
> >
> It's required of some Class V Org staff--OSA and Org executives, to be
> specific.
When I was - very, very briefly - Personnel Control Officer of the Stockholm
Cl V org in early 1983 I had to get the person who was supposed to become the
new ED of the org to fill out one of these forms. Before getting a permanent
posting on an executive post, the staff member had to be approved by Int, and
this form was part of the posting CSW. Of course, it wasn't really kept in
with all the post changes constantly taking place - many people were leaving
the org at that time.
Even as a public, you have to give out lots of information, although I don't
know if this particular form is used. But when starting to recieve auditing as
public, I had to give details about my family, medical history, groups I had
belonged to, etc. By the time you are "OT", I think there would be precious
little they didn't know about you.
Catarina
--
http://www.medstud.gu.se/~pamnell - my story
http://www.medstud.gu.se/~pamnell/lisa.html - varför dog Lisa?
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
wgert
starts using his real name here on ars.
I mean here he is. All these years hiding behind the nickname and
waiting for the big harassment by his former church. But for all those
years that church never did anything to him.
Then he started to post to ars in an attempt to stir up his former
Church to take action against him. He thought it would be pretty
clever of him not to use his real name. But even when he realized
that his Church knew his real name all along and still nothing of
harassive nature occured, he started to realize that he was in
the shit because now the whole story he mocked up so solidly
was no longer true. But admitting that would mean to admit
having been wrong, and that can't be. After all Mark wants to
be free from any responsibility.
wgert
Rebecca Jo McLaughlin
: clk: Go put some sense into warrior a.k.a. Mark Plummer so that he
: starts using his real name here on ars.
And your name really is . . .?
Beck
Ben The Allen
>clk: Go put some sense into warrior a.k.a. Mark Plummer so that he
>starts using his real name here on ars.
>
>I mean here he is. All these years hiding behind the nickname and
>waiting for the big harassment by his former church. But for all those
>years that church never did anything to him.
>
>Then he started to post to ars in an attempt to stir up his former
>Church to take action against him. He thought it would be pretty
>clever of him not to use his real name. But even when he realized
>that his Church knew his real name all along and still nothing of
>harassive nature occured, he started to realize that he was in
>the shit because now the whole story he mocked up so solidly
>was no longer true. But admitting that would mean to admit
>having been wrong, and that can't be. After all Mark wants to
>be free from any responsibility.
>
>wgert
LOL, this is what, the sixth, seventh time they've "outed" Warrior?
---
Ben Allen,
Of course, it has to be *Kevin's* dead cat to count.
hei...@wport.com
Lame stuff is fun.
remove e and l to e-mail
William Barwell
>clk: Go put some sense into warrior a.k.a. Mark Plummer so that he
>starts using his real name here on ars.
What is your hat?
What is your position in Scientology?
Public, sea org, staff, OSA?
Whose your I/C?
Why do suppose paying Stupidology $120,000.00 to exorcise your space
cooties shows you have any sense?
What crimes does OSA have in your Ethics file to hold over you?
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
Tilman Hausherr
>Then he started to post to ars in an attempt to stir up his former
>Church to take action against him. He thought it would be pretty
>clever of him not to use his real name. But even when he realized
>that his Church knew his real name all along and still nothing of
>harassive nature occured, he started to realize that he was in
>the shit because now the whole story he mocked up so solidly
>was no longer true. But admitting that would mean to admit
>having been wrong, and that can't be. After all Mark wants to
>be free from any responsibility.
The "church" has its own logic to chose whom to harass. For example,
although I am often harassed by Helena Kobrin, I have had no picketing
of my home or my parent's home.
Tilman
--
Tilman Hausherr [KoX, SP4]
til...@berlin.snafu.de http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/#cos
Resistance is futile. You will be enturbulated. Xenu always prevails.
Find broken links on your web site: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/xenulink.html
Annoy scientology by buying books: http://www.snafu.de/~tilman/bookstore.html
Tilman Hausherr
(Rebecca Jo McLaughlin) wrote:
>And your name really is . . .?
Lynn Farney? (Mr.)
wgert
the use of it too.
wgert
© Anti-Cult ®
wg...@loop.com (wgert).
From: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start
Here.
Wrote on the subject: Mark Plummer and Charlotte Kates:
>clk: Go put some sense into warrior a.k.a. Mark Plummer so that he
>starts using his real name here on ars.
>
Ditto OSA agent. Use your real name, and not a fake name. Stupid idiot.
Look at the sig in this article, and you'll know how to do it, however
I'm sure you're too weak to dare doing it. Hiding is the only thing a
cultist and OSA agent like you can do.
Passa dig du din gamla OSA agent, annars finns risken att tänderna dina
exercerar beväring nerför halsen på dig. :-)
(man vet aldrig hur lätt det är att svälja sina tänder, innan man gjort
det. Du har väl löständer? Om inte så fixar det sig i alla fall.)
I hope that everybody interprets the above, as a result of the bad
teeths most scientologists have.
Well, to interpret it at all, maybe you need a translation OSA? Go get
it :-)
To finish this off, I'll only pledge:
We will hound you on the beaches,
We will hound you on the streets,
We will hound you in the marketplaces,
We will hound you in the meetingplaces,
We will hound you in the schools,
We will hound you from the pulpits,
We will hound you in the countryside,
We will hound you in the City Councils,
We will hound you in the Legislatures,
We will hound you in the Courts,
We will hound you only with Truth and
Determination and Drive you from our Midst.
Never, Never will we surrender to the Tyranny
of the Lies of Scientology
or its NeoFascist Ideology!
And when we will have finally Won
and the Co$ lies in tattered, shattered Ruins,
Upon the Dustbin of Histories Failed Oppressors,
Devoid of Reputation,
Devoid of Shelter,
Devoid of Friend,
Devoid of Water, Bread, or Salt,
And Shunned by all Decent Folk,
Then, Then it will be said:
Never before in the History of Cybernet Conflict
and the Struggle for Freedom of Speech, Worship,
and Thought,
Will so many,
Owe so much,
To so Few.
*--------------------------*
* Sten-Arne Zerpe *
* Adr: Kristinelundsv. 24 *
* S-171 50 Solna *
* Sweden *
*--------------------------*
* Phone: +46 8 826189 *
* Mobile: +46 70 6808790 *
* E-mail: ze...@wineasy.se *
*---------------------------------------------------------------*
* Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pubpgp.htm *
*---------------------------------------------------------------*
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The post by [wgert] that this is in response to, was made by a paid
employee of the Church of Scientology. Please note the compassion
that the post was lacking. In all probability the post contained
untrue information and half-truths. This process is referred to as
"dead agenting". It is one of the two ways the "Church" attacks
it's critics. The other way is litigation.
---------- www.xenu.net ---- www.users.wineasy.se/noname/ ----------
Tilman Hausherr
>Then he started to post to ars in an attempt to stir up his former
>Church to take action against him.
You mean that he actually *wants* to be harassed?
>He thought it would be pretty
>clever of him not to use his real name. But even when he realized
>that his Church knew his real name all along and still nothing of
>harassive nature occured, he started to realize that he was in
>the shit because now the whole story he mocked up so solidly
>was no longer true. But admitting that would mean to admit
What story? (Does it have to do with a pigstall? I can keep your pink
secret, "wgert")
>having been wrong, and that can't be. After all Mark wants to
>be free from any responsibility.
Huh? For what?
Tilman
Beverly
> clk: Go put some sense into warrior a.k.a. Mark Plummer so that he
> starts using his real name here on ars.
>
> I mean here he is. All these years hiding behind the nickname and
> waiting for the big harassment by his former church. But for all those
> years that church never did anything to him.
You know better than that, and so do the regular readers of this
newsgroup.
Your bots here on the NG have made false allegations against
Mark, and petty attacks, and outing him x amount of times.
You know there's more, too, but we'll play your little game
for now.
You truly are a Sad Man, but sadder still is that you take
pleasure in this. Please, continue to have fun as you destroy
your soul. Laugh yourself slowly to spiritual death, Sad Man.
If only you had just a smidgeon of the heart that Mr. Plummer
does.
Beverly Rice (originally "outed" by Steve Fishman)
© Anti-Cult ®
>You've got to get your signature file sorted out and start drilling
>the use of it too.
>
>wgert
>
You got to get the crimes out of your system wgert, and start acting
like a human being, and not like a brainwashed scientologist.
++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
"You want to know what happens when you clear everybody in that
neighbourhood, the only thing that [Scientology] center can become
used for is a political center. Because by the time you've done
all this, you are the government..."
-- L. Ron Hubbard, lecture 9 January 1962, "Future Org Trends"
++++++++++++ SACRED CULT SCRIPTURE +++++++++++++
"Once the world is Clear - a nation, a state, a city or a village -
the Scientology-organization in the area becomes its government! And
once this has taken place the only policy accepted as valid is
Scientology policy."
-- L. Ron Hubbard, taped lecture 9 January 1962,
"Future Org Trends"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal'. By then be sure the
orgs say what is legal or not."
-- L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 4 January 1966--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
********* I'm so entheta I mock up *your* reactive mind too *********
*********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
* Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
******** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) ********
***** Public PGP key: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/pgp.htm ****
---------------------------------------------------------------------
wgert
fill it out before posting it here over and over again. And/or get
Mark to fill it out.
wgert
On 12 Sep 1998 05:06:08 GMT, clk...@aol.com (CLKates) wrote:
Paper Tiger
In Message-ID: <35fe9b06...@The.Fifth.Galactic.Invader.Force>,
The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (® Anti-Cult «) wrote:
[snip]
> "Once the world is Clear - a nation, a state, a city or a village -
> the Scientology-organization in the area becomes its government! And
> once this has taken place the only policy accepted as valid is
> Scientology policy."
>
> -- L. Ron Hubbard, taped lecture 9 January 1962,
> "Future Org Trends"
This quote is taken from a post of mine, where I misattributed it to
Hubbard. It's actually from Tom Voltz's commentary on Hubbard's
lecture. I'd say it was certainly something Hubbard thought, but in
this case he didn't say it.
** Paper Tiger (SP3+, KBM, BBSNN, LFDoX)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: cp850
iQCVAwUBNf6pD4Cmc8kif9MJAQHX6QP+NsN/diWjlQ1Nk9mch9/ouPsUWG0FtG11
OjajYborJJdbWEz+9alhP2XzyxaRVJ7ndLcVapzITWecs/9drFcT27yE4BDJPm9a
qD15E9nudZ4v5nfrFo0IgQ6TMvpGr372XVLLwSc1Brbn9M+FlNECFUaB3aKaeDES
K9zCdvMpbMI=
=f4wJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Catarina Pamnell
jim meyer wrote in message <35F784...@isd.net>...
>jay hess wrote:
>>
>> What is so funny about this whole thread is that although the JWs
>>
>> rabidly attack the idea of worshiping Jesus, their official church
>>
>> charter (which can be obtained from the Allegheny PA courthouse and
>>
>> reprinted in their 1945 Yearbook) says that the purpose of their church
>>
>> is to worship Jesus. They have never replaced this portion of their
>>
>> charter.
>>
>> As far as the claim that there are two words for "worship" in the Greek,
>>
>> I suppose some JWs might claim that "latreuo" is a form of "worship" but
>>
>> it is not usually translated that way. The main word is "proskuneo". It
>>
>> is given to Jesus (Matthew 28:9; Hebrews 1:6) and to the Father & the
>>
>> Lamb (Revelation 5:12-14). A first-century Greek speaking Christian
>>
>> reading all the occurrences of "proskuneo" could not come to the
>>
>> conclusion that Jesus was not to recieve such. To assert that only the
>>
>> Father receives "proskuneo" is a lie. To say that whenever it goes to
>>
>> Jesus it could not mean "worship" is circular reasoning and has no
>>
>> support. It is a result of their pre-existing theology that requires
>>
>> them to say that. Until 1954 the JWs were required to say that Jesus was
>>
>> worshiped, until their leaders forbid them from saying it. Their
>>
>> teachings have nothing to do with convincing logic, it is only a result
>>
>> of authoritarian control.
>>
>> Regarding polytheism & JWs ...
>>
>> The JWs firmly believe that when the universe was created, Jesus was "a
>>
>> god" (John 1:1 - their NWT) and assisted in that creation. However, the
>>
>> Father was the Creator (JWs are not allowed to say Jesus was a creator
>>
>> or even a co-creator). That makes 2 gods sharing in the creation of the
>>
>> universe. Yet Isaiah 44:24 & Malachi 2:10 say otherwise. No Jew would
>>
>> have ever said that the universe was made by 2 gods. That would be
>>
>> polytheism (regardless of how you view "worship").
>>
>> - Jay
>>
>> Alex Hogendoorn wrote:
>> >
>> > >Jehovah's Witnesses believe that people in the world worship many
>> > >gods. For example the Buddhists and Hindus worship thousands of
>> > >gods. In the scriptures Satan is referred to as the god of this
world:
>> > >'...the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the
>> > >unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the
>> > >Christ.....might not shine through.' However Jehovah's Witnesses
>> > >worship only one God, the Supreme, Almighty Creator - Jehovah.
>> > >They worship Him in harmony with this scripture: 'That people may
>know
>> > that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High
>> > >over all the earth.' -Psalm 83:18.
>> > > 'Suzanne'
>> >
>> > Why thank-you Suzanne,
>> >
>> > However, I disagree. Very nicely put, but not consistent with what I
find
>> > in Scripture. For example, when we read Ex. 20:1-7 there is no doubt
that
>> > the LORD only is to be worshipped and no one or thing can receive it
for
>> > Him. Jesus knew this also and supported this
>> > truth in Matt. 4:10.
>> >
>> > Yet, here's the problem: Jesus accepts worship--Matt. 28:9
"Suddenly
>> > Jesus met them. "Greetings," He said. They came to Him, clasped His
feet
>> > and worshipped Him."; Lk.24:52 "Then they worshipped Him [Jesus is the
>> > antecedent here] and returned to Jerusalem with great joy"; and Rev.
5:11-14
>> > is a picture of such worship of the Lamb (Christ) and we should note
that
>> > worshipping is "ascribing worth to". (Note the contrast in Rev.
19:10)] No
>> > god or angel can accept it for the Lord God. So what is Jesus doing?
Where
>> > are the rebukes?
>> >
>> > I worship Jesus and am not a polytheist, because He is God, One of the
Three
>> > who are One. :-) Perhaps I'm Trinitarian in my views because it is so
much
>> > more relaxing for me when I read the Bible this way--I don't have to
>> > constantly explain away passages that point to the Three in One.
>> >
>> > With Christ (God the Son) as our Vision,
>> >
>> > Lex
>Hebrews 1:6 reads: "But when he again brings his First-born into the
>inhabited earth, he says: 'And let all God's angels worship him.'" The
>writer of Hebrews is here quoting from Psalm 97:7, which reads (in
snipped a bunch of stuff in which the author tires to confuse and keep JW's
from worshiping the True God,
See the web cite below for the Truth about the Godhead.
Sincerely, Gary
g...@iag.net, SEE Trinity vs. Heresy
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/3186/
David Gerard
wrote:
:On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:46:53 GMT, wg...@loop.com (wgert) wrote:
:>clk: Go put some sense into warrior a.k.a. Xxxx Xxxxxxx so that he
:>starts using his real name here on ars.
:LOL, this is what, the sixth, seventh time they've "outed" Warrior?
And it pisses them off so much that he *still* uses his handle.
Anything to waste bOrg time ;-)
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ AGSF Unit 0|4 http://suburbia.net/~fun/
Stop JUNK EMAIL Boycott AMAZON.COM http://mickc.home.mindspring.com/index1.htm
"It's always fun to walk up to little kids at the mall who have pentacles all
over them and say 'oh, I see you're wearing that nice old Catholic symbol
representing the 5 stigmata of Christ'." (Necr0Angel)
CLKates
mystery of rennes-le-chateau