OSA 101, Part 4
Mistmagoo55
There is a very definite thing that you can count on with OSA:
If someone starts posting truth, you will find suddenly there will be many
posts about this person, slandering him or her. They may not be totally
obvious, but suddenly you will just have this "odd" feeling about the person.
That is called Black PR. Black PR is taking something, anything really, to turn
on a person and make them look worse. You can use their words, and turn them
around so they mean something different. An example of this is perhaps I say I
think Joe is working for OSA. He has been attacking me, etc and it just feels
weird. IF he IS really with OSA, here is how they might handle it:
"OH YES sure...Joe is with OSA! When does your paranoia quit? Can you not just
have a nice conversation with someone who may have *some* critical thoughts of
you without you going into a complete immature upset? Grow up!"
See? Always attack back. That's Hubbard, and straight OSA.
They may attack how you look.
EXP: Saturday one of my "handlers" came up to me and said loudly, "Gee Tory,
Your eyes sure don't look that good". Now unfortunately for him, he was talking
to me. I have always hated that routine, even when I was IN the "church" and
always told people not to do it. So I told him that, and that for the last 7
months people have consistently told me how much better I look, so I KNOW what
he is saying is just BLACK PR, and nothing more.
They may try to start a smear campaign.... spreading little lies here and
there, trying to get just one person to go against the person they want to
Black PR. If they can get one person posting against who they want, they are
happy. Sick, but true. See, if they can just get one person to buy their Black
PR, there is a good chance someone else will buy into it too.
How can you tell if it is Black PR?
Well, look. Look at what is said, and then look at the person they are speaking
about. If you KNOW the person, but you do not know who the poster is, and the
poster is saying something even a bit off re someone you know, make sure to
stand up and say something. Some people are REALLY good at this. PTSC is
excellent at this...and so is Sten-Arne and of course Andreas. Bunnyann is
often good at this, and so is Barbz. Actually now that I start thinking of
people, many names come to mind. Warrior, Arnie and Tilman are very good,
Beverly is excellent, and so is Bid. Patricia, Greg Barnes, Tommy, Phineas, are
all great. The list really goes on and on…. Ahh hell, too many to name, but
it really makes a difference. Thank each and every one of you for taking a
stand against this kind of thing.
I know from working with OSA that their intent is to distract people, to put
them down (if they have credibility and know any inside scoop). They will go to
unbelievable measures to Black PR someone like this.
Make sure you watch for it, and continue to nail them.
I am sure because I am posting some very true facts, OSA is extremely mad at me
and has begun their smear campaign at me. Look at what I have done, and look at
whomever is saying things. See if they have actually done things that SHOW the
truth about Scientology. Usually the OSA volunteers of course have done
nothing. They cannot. They would never pass their Eligibility…although maybe
now they will try that too. I hope so, as that may be the beginning of the end
for them.
There is one easy way to spot Black PR: You were feeling good about a person,
and for no good reason now you suddenly are feeling not so good about them.
Pull the string, as they say in the cult. Look. Find out what was said, who
said it and what are their actually actions. Mostly you will find they are just
like the Wizard of Oz....just lots of wind.
LOVE TO ALL~
Tory/Magoo~dancing in the light~
In for 30 years
Out for 7 months
SP 5
Free at last!
(www.xenu.net/Tory for more info)
Coolvibe
Mistmagoo55 wrote:
[relevant stuff snipped]
>
> They may attack how you look.
> EXP: Saturday one of my "handlers" came up to me and said loudly, "Gee Tory,
> Your eyes sure don't look that good". Now unfortunately for him, he was talking
> to me. I have always hated that routine, even when I was IN the "church" and
> always told people not to do it. So I told him that, and that for the last 7
> months people have consistently told me how much better I look, so I KNOW what
> he is saying is just BLACK PR, and nothing more.
You do look better! Another testimonial for ya.
> They may try to start a smear campaign.... spreading little lies here and
> there, trying to get just one person to go against the person they want to
> Black PR. If they can get one person posting against who they want, they are
> happy. Sick, but true. See, if they can just get one person to buy their Black
> PR, there is a good chance someone else will buy into it too.
I saw videos at LMT where they tried to "handle" you at a picket. You
simply responded: "That's an OSA line, I should know, I *was* in OSA".
And then they go all bubbly. I couldn't resist smiling :)
[snip]
Keep up the good work Tory. I have no doubts with you. You are doing a
*good* thing.
Cheers,
Coolvibe
Virginia
I don't think this is just limited to OSA, actually.
>If someone starts posting truth, you will find suddenly there will be many
>posts about this person, slandering him or her. They may not be totally
>obvious, but suddenly you will just have this "odd" feeling about the
person.
This is a really good way of pointing out how this all works.
Compared to the colorful posts here recently about me, you should have seen
what the church was saying about me when I found out about the truth on the
six month check line for OTVII's, and horrors! I then told lots of people
the truth-egads. Tar and feather that person!!
Virginia
Birgitta
did you miss my reply to you here ? Or did I miss your ? :-))
Bid
On 14 Mar 2001 20:33:19 GMT, mistm...@aol.com (Mistmagoo55) wrote:
>
>>
>>>>Subject: Re: OSA 101, Part 2 Who is Who/Basics
>>>>From: Birgitta birg...@boberg.nu
>>>>Date: 3/10/01 6:10 PM Eastern Standard Time
>>>>Message-id: <h2clatsjg5h6172d0...@4ax.com>
>>
>
>
>>Did you see my other comments ? I am pasting them below:
>>
>>Lynn Farny and Alan Carwright was the ones who was in charge of me in
>>LA 1983. Alan for GO (who still existed in the U.S. when I arrived)
>>and Lynn for Special Unit. He assigned me the different duties there.
>
>Bid..why were they "in charge of you? Did you work in GO or what? Yeah, Lynn is
>at OSA, and Alan Cartwright was in our court case last month in Clearwater! I
>*think* he was supposed to be the RTC representative, at least that is what I
>heard.
Tory,
I was the first survivor from the old GO into the new OSA. This was
1983 and I had spent a couple of months on the DPF in Denmark.
See my story at: http://home.sverige.net/adm.service
I was sent to Hollywood because Alan Hubbert thought I was a starlet
and he wanted to make me OSA EU. As I felt more like a guineapig (or
how it spells) than a possible candidate for this post, I declined
the offer but agreed to take care of Sweden. (Don't worry, I didn't
stay long after looking behind the scenes)
Anyway ... those guys meant to make me more able so they connected me
to the legal cases and the lawyers and to Heber. It was rather
interesting to see how the records of minutes and board meetings for
the Mission Network was falsified.
Alan C. was a sort of lazy guy. I don't think I ever saw him do
anything. And he looked about the same when I saw him in Stockholm
1998, just a lot more tired.
I did like Lynn, he gave me an impression of being fair and honest. I
hope he has not been destroyed by working in OSA ... but most probably
he has ....
There was also a girl with the name Leila who worked full time with
only immigration matters. Can you imagine that ?
Bid
Another Troll
> OSA 101, PART 4
>
>
> There is a very definite thing that you can count on with OSA:
>
> If someone starts posting truth, you will find suddenly there will be many
> posts about this person, slandering him or her.
Before I came here I was told to post without using my actuall name,
and shown how to, for that very reason (above).
---
"He stands erect by bending over the fallen. He rises by lifting others."
"I would rather live and love where death is king than have eternal life where love is not."
Robert Green Ingersoll
colette
mistm...@aol.com (Mistmagoo55) wrote:
] That is called Black PR. Black PR is taking something, anything really,
to turn
] on a person and make them look worse. You can use their words, and turn them
] around so they mean something different. An example of this is perhaps I say I
] think Joe is working for OSA. He has been attacking me, etc and it just feels
] weird. IF he IS really with OSA, here is how they might handle it:
]
] "OH YES sure...Joe is with OSA! When does your paranoia quit? Can you not just
] have a nice conversation with someone who may have *some* critical thoughts of
] you without you going into a complete immature upset? Grow up!"
]
] See? Always attack back. That's Hubbard, and straight OSA.
This is good, but keep in mind that someone who really
*isn't* OSA is likely to respond in the same way, so
keep your mind open. Don't let yourself fall into the
trap of thinking "Denial = Guilt" always and apart from
any context. That's actually a great way of *increasing*
the paranoia level.
In other words, as our favorite happy fun cult likes to
say, think for yourself!
--
colette marine
school of education and social policy
northwestern university
c...@nwu.edu
Mistmagoo55
>Date: 3/21/01 5:14 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3lvgbtc4hhrgddhms...@4ax.com>
>
>did you miss my reply to you here ? Or did I miss your ? :-))
>
>Bid
Yes, Bid...somehow I missed it all! WOW...that is amazing!! Thank you SO much
for re sending it to me, especially your story. :)
I love you, Bid. I am SO happy you are my friend. Yeah...Alan looked terrible
through most of our court room drama...mostly exhausted as I wrote in my cram.
Can you tell us a bit how they falsify the records for the board meetings for
the Mission Network, or is that posted already somewhere? That would be a very
good post.
Love to you, and thanks again!
Tory/Magoo~dancing with Bid~
Mistmagoo55
>From: Coolvibe cool...@NOSPAMPLEASEhackerheaven.org
>Date: 3/21/01 2:57 AM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3AB85EE6...@NOSPAMPLEASEhackerheaven.org>
Thank you very much Coolvide for your most cool post! I appreciate the in put.
Cheers!
Tory./Magoo~dancing in the light~
>
>
Warrior
mistm...@aol.com (Mistmagoo55) wrote:
>
>That is called Black PR. Black PR is taking something, anything really, to
>turn on a person and make them look worse. You can use their words, and turn
>them around so they mean something different. An example of this is perhaps
>I say I think Joe is working for OSA. He has been attacking me, etc and it
>just feels weird. IF he IS really with OSA, here is how they might handle it:
>
>"OH YES sure...Joe is with OSA! When does your paranoia quit? Can you not just
>have a nice conversation with someone who may have *some* critical thoughts of
>you without you going into a complete immature upset? Grow up!"
>
>See? Always attack back. That's Hubbard, and straight OSA.
Yes. And here are some bits of Hubbard's "tech" on how to covertly
spread lies in an attempt to destroy a person's reputation. This is
a "common tool" frequently used by Scientology's Office of Special
Affairs in "seeking to destroy real or fancied enemies or seek
dominance in some field".
Note that Hubbard wrote: "It inevitably results in injustices being
done by those who operate without verifying the truth."
We have seen anonymous Scientologists on a.r.s. exactly apply this
facet of Hubbard's "tech" for years: "Black Propaganda is in its
technical accuracy, a COVERT OPERATION where unknown authors publicly
effect a derogatory reaction and then remain unknown."
===
"About the most involved employment of PR [public relations] is its
COVERT USE IN DESTROYING THE REPUTE of individuals and groups. More
correctly this is called BLACK PROPAGANDA."
- HCO PL 11 May 71 Issue III "Black PR"
"Black = bad or derogatory, propaganda = pushing out statements or
ideas, the term used to DESTROY REPUTATION or public BELIEF in persons,
companies or nations. It is a COMMON TOOL of agencies [$cn] who are
seeking to DESTROY real or fancied ENEMIES or seek dominance in some
field."
- HCO PL 21 November 72 Issue I - "How to Handle Black Propaganda"
"The activity called BLACK PROPAGANDA consists of SPREADING LIES by
HIDDEN sources. It inevitably results in injustices being done by those
who operate without verifying the truth."
- Flag OODs [Orders of the Day] 17 May 71 ["LRH Command Items"]
"When PR is used for the DESTRUCTION of ideals or institutions or
repute of persons, it is called, traditionally, BLACK PR. This is
USUALLY COVERT and a DISTORTION OF TRUTH or a whole cloth FABRICATION."
- HCO PL 7 August 72 - "PR and Causation"
"Black Propaganda is in its technical accuracy, a COVERT OPERATION
where unknown authors publicly effect a derogatory reaction and then
remain unknown."
- HCO PL 11 May 71 Issue III - "Black PR"
"A COVERT ATTACK on the reputation of a person, company or nation
USING SLANDER or LIES in order to WEAKEN or DESTROY."
- HCO PL 21 November 72 Issue 1 "How to Handle Black Propaganda"
"BLACK PR also uses IMAGINATION IN ORDER TO DEGRADE or VILLIFY or
DISCREDIT an existing or fancied image."
- HCO PL 7 August 72 - "PR and Causation"
===
Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
See http://warrior.offlines.org/
Phil Scott
In light of this post from Tory regarding the cults use of black PR
Mr Plummer, would you care to comment on your use of the anon fake
name 'miss-x' to spread damning 'information' on an exscn who almost
died at the hands of the cult? (its irrelevant that once you were
outed as Miss X you now claim openly that you were miss x... but at
the time you used the fake Miss-x statements to confirm your own
degrading remarks about the cult victim.... I was not, and am still
not impressed by that.)
Personally Mr Plummer I think it was a stupid mistake on your part
that you later tried to justify, not an OSA op.... but ruinous none
the less. Black propaganda, discrediting a critic or cult victim
done on purpose or by ignorance is equally destructive. As a result
of publishing your 'opinion' there is one less credible witness
against the murderous cult.
Thats not a ;product' friend. Regardless how you justify it. And it
was inhumane in the extreme whether you are up to recognition at that
level yourself or not.
And Mark, I am off of this NG. this is just one post, I will not be
following up in the thread, so keep on trashing the cult victim,
covertly works well, if thats your idea of the proper thing to do.
Phil Scott
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ab90376...@news.tdl.com...
> On 21 Mar 2001 10:07:18 -0800, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> In light of this post from Tory regarding the cults use of black PR
> Mr Plummer, would you care to comment on your use of the anon fake
> name 'miss-x' to spread damning 'information' on an exscn who
> almost died at the hands of the cult? (its irrelevant that once
> you were outed as Miss X you now claim openly that you were miss
> x... but at the time you used the fake Miss-x statements to confirm
> your own
> degrading remarks about the cult victim.... I was not, and am
> still not impressed by that.)
>
You know, you really are an intellectually dishonest person, Phil.
You were told over and over that the "degrading remarks" were not
planned as such, you went on a crusade, insisting that Warrior could
remove the recollections he had previously spoken of from *someone
else's* web page, even though at the time you went over this ad
nauseum, you were also informed that it was not HIS web page and that
at the time he had sporadic hard drive problems and was not able to
be online as much as you assumed he was--even accusing him of
ignoring posts you'd made when he simply hadn't SEEN them and
repeatedly told you that.
Then you proclaimed you were gone forever, just ahead of my
killfile, because I'd personally gotten fed up with your intellectual
dishonesty. You are nothing if not stubborn about your delusions of
grandeur and your objects of fixation. Why don't you get over
yourself just a bit, Phil, and quit beating the dead horse.
> Personally Mr Plummer I think it was a stupid mistake on your part
> that you later tried to justify, not an OSA op.... but ruinous none
> the less. Black propaganda, discrediting a critic or cult victim
> done on purpose or by ignorance is equally destructive. As a
> result of publishing your 'opinion' there is one less credible
> witness
> against the murderous cult.
>
He didn't "try to justify", he tried to explain that he was going by
what he observed and what was told to him at the time, and you were
the one who made such a big deal out of what was actually not noticed
by a lot of people until you so bravely pointed it out in your zeal
to "protect" the person you claim was falsely maligned. In fact, your
making such a big deal out of it actually pulled in more people
reading that stuff--much like a certain cult does repeatedly, in
fact. I'd say you still have some personal reprogramming to do.
Warrior apologized for his mistakes, and you refused to accept the
apology and move on. You are the one stuck in a rut, Phil.
So is this your final post, or do I have to killfile you? Be
assured that I certainly will if you show up again. I'm done with
you.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
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Phil Scott
Please dont be upset. But you based your hostile remarks on the
basis that Mark only forwarded a story first put out on other web
sites correct?
Well you see that is not what happened. Mark wrote the original story
under HIS anon name at the time.... then he collaborated his own story
from his other fakename 'Miss-X'.... thats how it spread. It was
all, ever single word an comma and damning soul destroying remark
created by Mark Plummer. Others only picked up the account later
and put it on thier web sites, then he said he had nothing to do with
it at the time because 'Miss-x' did the post and he said he had no
idea who miss x was..
dang... later he is outed as Miss-X. Naughty naughty. except
that another cult victim is discredited and ruined. thats a bit worse
dont you think.
Do you see now? Or am I missing something. If so tell me who
originated and forwarded the damning account if it was not Mark
Plummer. Sorry you hate me so much for mentioning the issue, but
what I write here is the facts of the matter as Mr Plummer has now
admitted being both 'warrior, werreour, and Miss-x'.
Oh well.
Phil Scott
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
First of all, Phil, I don't "hate" you for bringing up the issue. I
simply disagree with your interpretation of events, rather hugely.
As I recall, you took umbrage at the article written a long time ago
as "Miss X". Warrior had, prior to your umbrage taking, reported he
was having hard drive problems and only sporadically getting the
newsgroup. Your tone got increasingly hostile as you thought he had
"ignored" your demands that he retract the statements (previously and
a while back) made, which had been webbed. As MY memory goes--and I
may be getting some points wrong, but I think it's accurate in the
main, even though with CFS and with fibromyalgia I sometimes have
some problems--you were told by several people that he had only
sporadic access, and you ignored these posts and got increasingly
shrill and more demanding. Warrior then got online, saw your posts
and confirmed that he hadn't seen them. What you were demanding was
that he remove the statements from "his web site" and you were told
over and over that it was not HIS website, and that he couldn't go in
and remove them, which you did not believe, apparently, from your
tone.
Warrior also said that at the time he made those statements he was
going by his recollection and that he did not identify the person,
but that identification happened later. You refused to listen to any
of this, and instead blew it up further out of proportion. You were
on a crusade, and would not slow down for anyone.
It kind of pissed me off. It still does that you seem to think there
was some kind of malevolence in writing what he did, when what he was
trying to convey was the breakdown of persons he observed kept in
that same situation the cult's people kept Lisa in. He tried to
explain this to you, but you weren't having any. He was also not
going to lie and say that he didn't see what he saw or is certain
that he saw.
What he spoke of DID convey the horror of someone kept in isolation
and not allowed to leave. Perhaps he got the detail wrong which
obviously the person spoken about says he did, but he believed he was
correct, and stood by that belief. There was no attempt to smear the
person involved, and most people did not see it as any kind of
attempt to make the person look bad, but as a reason to think badly
of a "religion" that would cause this kind of breakdown in a person.
Do you understand the difference? Why should he retract that if he
believed it to be true?
And when you were told this, you didn't listen, just ragged on him
some more about removing it from "his" web page, when you were told
over and over it wasn't his.
Do you have a smidgeon of understanding yet as to why I am a bit
miffed at your own density?
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
"Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ab90ecf...@news.tdl.com...
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tommyboy
Keep reporting the truth and revealing the
bizarre behavior and attitudes of OSA.
A VWD on that one too! ;-)
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Phil Scott
<stars...@starshadow.net> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>First of all, Phil, I don't "hate" you for bringing up the issue. I
>simply disagree with your interpretation of events, rather hugely.
>
>As I recall, you took umbrage at the article written a long time ago
>as "Miss X". Warrior had, prior to your umbrage taking, reported he
>was having hard drive problems and only sporadically getting the
>newsgroup. Your tone got increasingly hostile as you thought he had
>"ignored" your demands that he retract the statements (previously and
>a while back) made, which had been webbed. As MY memory goes--and I
>may be getting some points wrong, but I think it's accurate in the
>main, even though with CFS and with fibromyalgia I sometimes have
>some problems--you were told by several people that he had only
>sporadic access, and you ignored these posts and got increasingly
>shrill and more demanding. Warrior then got online, saw your posts
>and confirmed that he hadn't seen them. What you were demanding was
>that he remove the statements from "his web site" and you were told
>over and over that it was not HIS website, and that he couldn't go in
>and remove them, which you did not believe, apparently, from your
>tone.
Not correct. Mark HAD identified the person by first name and other
details in his **first and original post... then as Miss X he
completed the identification to much higher levels of detail including
eventually the name of a child! Then referred to his OWN miss x post
to collaborate the first account! After he was begged not to post
such misleading and damaging material by the victim.
Gasp. Wall to wall duplicity....and it has not stopped.
He has issued a great amount of confusing commentary in order to hide
these facts most of which you have quoted to me here.... all trying to
smoke over the issue.
>
>Warrior also said that at the time he made those statements he was
>going by his recollection and that he did not identify the person,
>but that identification happened later.
He lied again. as noted above. the actual record speaks for itself.
We have had these statements from Mark before, they are belied by the
ongong record especially as he has been outed on the fake names he
used to impliment the damaging remarks... which he calls 'the best of
his memory'
Maybe some one should 'remember' that I was seen screwing dogs in
Times square on the Tonight show or something. bullshit you see.
'good' intentions aside. It would be more credible if people posting
that kind of damaging crap about people used their real names, not a
series of fake ones.
Revealing isnt it? The use of a fake name to protect oneself is a
lot different than the use of the fake name to discredit a victim of
the cult so her testimony (and life) is damaged.
>You refused to listen to any
>of this, and instead blew it up further out of proportion. You were
>on a crusade, and would not slow down for anyone.
I listened.... so far the facts still stand. THe man used 3 fake
names, is on record denying it was him to trash the lady. Now of
course AFTER he has been outed, he says he never denied that it was
him behind the fake names.
Amazing isnt it? He hides behind the fake names, does the damage
repeatedly, then says he wasnt hiding? Then he denies any damage?
The he 'apologizes' and contiunues after the first few apologies to
post that crap under yet a new fake name 'werreour'..... give me a
break.
>
> It kind of pissed me off. It still does that you seem to think there
>was some kind of malevolence in writing what he did, when what he was
He is either an idiot, malevollent or for some other reason wishes to
discredit the witness in a potentially totally damaging case against
the cult. I have no earthly way of fathoming what the hell his deal
actually is as demonstrated by his behavior.
>trying to convey was the breakdown of persons he observed kept in
>that same situation the cult's people kept Lisa in. He tried to
>explain this to you, but you weren't having any. He was also not
>going to lie and say that he didn't see what he saw or is certain
>that he saw.
Yes thats his rationale.... the cults rationale, proven many times,
is to get its critics and staff into discreditable situations then
ruin the person with it. Mark gets a very well done for that...
he was persistent, covert, and his story can be seen to change with
each recounting in key aspects such as location and description of the
room etc.
You see. I've seen enough of that tactic elsewhere.
>
> What he spoke of DID convey the horror of someone kept in isolation
>and not allowed to leave. Perhaps he got the detail wrong which
>obviously the person spoken about says he did, but he believed he was
>correct, and stood by that belief.
That seems to be a good arguement. It discounts two very important
things:
1. The feelings and life of the victim.
2. The credibilty of the victim in court.
If I 'believe' for instance that just because I saw with my own eyes
some guy named joe blow playing with little boys, and patting them on
the back of thier diaper, that he was a pervert and posted that to the
web...would that be right?
I don't think so. Now what if the guy was a critic... like Tom or
Dennis and I say those things, just as the cult actually did say about
these two guys and presented a bunch of lying witnesses... well you
see that is really a bit of a problem don't you know.
I suggest we dont support trashing the cults victims regardless the
reason or our 'good intentions'.
>There was no attempt to smear the
>person involved,
she was smeared totally though don't you see..... and he PERSISTED for
over 2 years in posting that crap while she protested...
Its sort of like the wife getting strangled, could be one was just
trying to help her with a new rope neckace or something.
I think Marks denial is irrelevant. You can see how that would be of
course.
Having said that he called me on the phone and in a space of two hours
had me convinced of his good intent and that it was an error.... only
a review of the facts again disabused me of the notion.
>and most people did not see it as any kind of
>attempt to make the person look bad, but as a reason to think badly
>of a "religion" that would cause this kind of breakdown in a person.
>Do you understand the difference? Why should he retract that if he
>believed it to be true?
Because what one believes to be true and what is actually true are
many times two entirely different things..... if one is wrong in that
case he is spreading distortion that damages another person.
thats why. There is time to hold ones tongue. That time is when what
you see is damaging and contradicts the views of the victim in this
case. One cuts the victim a little slack, especially when saying what
one thinks he saw could damage the person or ruin credibility.
You know the cult has no shortage of people who *saw Lisa McPherson
days before she died and said she looked OK to them.... you gonna
believe that? Really.
Look at the autopsy photo's... those are the facts, what some moron
thinks they saw, especially when it injures or discredits the victim
further is what the cult is into. Certainly us critics can be a
step above that.
> And when you were told this, you didn't listen, just ragged on him
>some more about removing it from "his" web page, when you were told
>over and over it wasn't his.
The werreour site was HIS.... you didnt know that? He denied it for
two weeks, then was outed, THEN he admitted it.
Really one needs to notice these minor details...they are quite
revealing don't you think? I suggest you address these actual
facts and details before skipping on.
Phil Scott
Warrior
>
> Starshadow.
>
> Please dont be upset.
I don't know if Starshadow is upset, but she clearly is tired of
reading your twisted version of events. And I have absolute
certainty that many others are sick of your lies as well.
>But you based your hostile remarks on the basis that Mark only
>forwarded a story first put out on other web sites correct?
You obviously have not grasped the truth concerning this matter yet.
Phil, you're the only one who seems unable to grasp the truth to this
matter.
>Well you see that is not what happened. Mark wrote the original story
>under HIS anon name at the time.... then he collaborated his own story
>from his other fakename 'Miss-X'.... thats how it spread.
This is a lie. The very first time I ever posted anything about this
story was under my pseudonym, "Miss X". Please get the facts straight,
Phil. I never collaborated my own story.
What's clear is that you have no idea of the reality of this whole
matter. If you did, you would not previously have claimed the
opposite of what you are now claiming, i.e., you previously claimed
I used my "warrior" identity to collaborate my "Miss X" postings.
Please get one thing straight, Phil. I have never needed to engage
in any "collaboration" of my postings, since there has never been
any attempt by me to deny anything I've posted. Nor has there ever
been any need for me to validate my own postings. The victim is
aware of her ordeal.
>It was all, ever single word an [sic] comma and damning soul destroying
>remark created by Mark Plummer. Others only picked up the account later
>and put it on thier [sic] web sites, then he said he had nothing to do
>with it at the time because 'Miss-x' did the post and he said he had
>no idea who miss x was..
These are total falsehoods. Why do you persist in repeating your
twisted version of reality, Phil?
In the first place, I never created "soul destroying" remarks.
I never stated that I had nothing to do with the account of the
isolation victim revealed in my story.
Further, I told the victim during our very first telephone conversation
years ago that I had posted the story under my pseudonym of "Miss X".
I did not say I had no idea who "Miss X" was; in fact, I stated the
truth about my prior pseudonym.
>dang... later he is outed as Miss-X. Naughty naughty. except
>that another cult victim is discredited and ruined. thats a bit worse
>dont you think.
There has been no discrediting or ruining of the victim by me.
>Do you see now? Or am I missing something. If so tell me who
>originated and forwarded the damning account if it was not Mark
>Plummer. Sorry you hate me so much for mentioning the issue, but
>what I write here is the facts of the matter as Mr Plummer has now
>admitted being both 'warrior, werreour, and Miss-x'.
Until late May 1997 I posted as "Miss X" <mis...@mailmasher.com>.
It was during this time period (up until late May 1997) that I
wished to remain anonymous.
When the mailmasher service became unavailable in late May 1997,
I opened an account with electrotex, and I posted as "Warrior"
<war...@electrotex.com> until electrotex went out of the ISP
business here in Austin. I had come back home from a fishing
trip in mid-July 1998 to find my ISP had gone out of the ISP
business here in Austin with no warning whatsoever.
Then I opened an account a few days later with flash.net. Since
"warrior" was already being used by a flash.net customer, I chose
the email address of "werr...@flash.net". The sole reason for
choosing "werreour" is because it is the middle English spelling
for "warrior", and I wished to keep close to my established nick-
name.
Finally, I switched to texas.net in January of 2000. Again, as there
was already a texas.net customer using the email address of "warrior
@texas.net" I kept using "werreour" as my email address.
Ever since late May 1997 I have posted as "Warrior", usually using
the address <war...@entheta.net>.
>Oh well.
>
>Phil Scott
There is nothing at all sinister about my postings about the victim.
The sinister aspect of the victim's sad ordeal is of the cult's doing.
Phil Scott
Oh yes,and one other thing, why didn't you keep this subject in the
original thread Tory was addressing, the cult and OSA's black PR
tactics. A little too close for comfort?
Hey I have another idea.... you get yet another fake name, another new
ISP too, you can come up with a reason later, then come on and
justify yourself. Oh yes and start some more threads so you can maybe
get some names mentioned yet again and get the victim trashed further,
then blame me or someone else for bringing up the subject.
Hero.
I suggest Mark that when someone brings up the subject of OSA covertly
trashing the victims of the cult, and witnesses to its crimes, that
you not try to make like goody two shoes as you stand as the author of
one of the worst, curve ball, most damaging trash jobs yet seen on the
net.
Sort of obvious I thought.
Phil Scott
Beverly Rice
> This is a lie. The very first time I ever posted anything about this
> story was under my pseudonym, "Miss X". Please get the facts straight,
> Phil. I never collaborated my own story.
To read the Mark Plummer (no I'm not outing him, Mark is
in the open and doing quite well, and I ~like~ his nick
of Warrior) posts when he was giving extremely informative
information as Miss X, go to:
http://www.icon.fi/~marina/1stpersn/index.htm#MissX
ARC = As-Ising The Real Co$,
Beverly
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In Message-ID: <3ab94268...@news.tdl.com>
From: phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott).
Organization: The Diamond Lane.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of reality
straight - was Re: OSA 101 - the use of "black PR":
Hmm, are you back Phil Scott? Your "final post" wasn't so final then,
was it. You only stayed away for a few months...
Goodbye post included:
Path:
gail.ripco.com!news.lightlink.com!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!
news.he.net!news.tdl.com!not-for-mail
From: phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: My final post to ARS
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 20:25:31 GMT
Organization: The Diamond Lane
Lines: 123
Message-ID: <39de2231...@news.tdl.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm6-161.tdl.com
X-Trace: news.tdl.com 970863120 27899 206.180.234.161 (6 Oct 2000
20:12:00 GMT)
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X-Agent-Group: alt.religion.scientology
My association with ARS began in 1993 or 1994 when ARS was getting 2
or 3 posts per day on a good day. I ahve posted over 15,000 posts
to these NG's (ars and act) fewer in the last couple of years.
These were predominantly essays, ot one line remarks.
Ars's founders if you will, or at least a cadre of the most
prominent posters insisted on absolute verifiable truth being
posted... or there was a price to pay. These people for the most
part were people apparently of some considerable integrity and success
in life. Many professionals, and sucessful independent businessmen.
The NG grew exponentially on those strengths...
You see, decent and truthful behavior IS the antithesis of the cult we
were trying to expose, and expose it we did.
Then came the netizens, and for some reason they too held to these
exceptionally high standards, and ARS became the most read, certainly
one of the most influential news groups on usenet.
One was completely impressed by those who chose to banded together in
this fight.
Wonderful things happened, pickets were organized, Ghandi tech was
taken on as a standard, not just physically but in the way we treated
cult members and how we spoke, and in our sense of humor.
The cult simply went ballistic....we were effectively taking them
down.. Yes they cooperated by being ..er..well vicious culties, but
none the less thier stats declined by over 90% since ARS was formed
and the decline prior to that was in the range of 0 to 5% a year.
ARS was instrumental in the cults decline. It formed the network
linking critics, ex's and pickets etc.
Thats what happens when hard core decency, humor, and truth faces
ultimate corruption.
Then ...... creeping in around the edges came rutlessly vile language
in the last few years, weapons were fired, and gradually a cadre of
people who no longer protested such degradation and counter productive
activity..... Many did not protest remarks about how some critic or
another was going to break the spine of some cult supporter with
ruthless sexual acts. Remarks vile, forcefully degrading and
sickening beyond belief.
This folks is solidly on the WRONG path.
Some major and influetial chose to leave in protest. And stated
their reasons at the time.
This marked imho the not so gradual decline of decent behavior in
the NG, and amonst some critics.... but more importantly it will in my
opinion mark the decline of the critical movement as some of the
leaders began to condone, even contribute to this sort of behavior....
Mark my words, the cult will resurge off of this weakness.
There is *no power in indecent behavior. None. Only the apparency
of power. Why? Because the people of the world at large are the
final arbitors, and will not support life repressing behavior or lies
in the long term I suggest one does not align with those
characteristics. Not just for the sake of this fight...but for ones
own personal benefit in his larger life.
Indecent disrespectufl behavior behavior does not attact or retain
genius's.... or men of integrity or courage you see..
it does attract and retain the spineless elements ...with no
integrity, who hide and lie, and mouse around through life on whatever
pleases those around them.
We see now in some quarters attempts to force agreement with these
tasteless disrespectful behaviors. I was quite dissapointed. That is
why I am leaving this alliance and there is an alliance....not of
course with the passing moron posting the NG, but with the core
critcs..there is a hard core alliance if not one in the legal sense.
I chose to protest by my permanent withdawl. One cannot support this
trend. The US marines know this. Any dishonor in the ranks ruins the
corp and makes it impotent in battle. Dishonable behavior or
condoning it makes one personally impotent in life.
Real courage and success you see is decent, it is born in high levels
of respect and integrity...selflessness... it is from these
characteristics that real courage is born, a scarce commodity.
Indecency and such behavior from the bottom of the barrel will not
prevail against the criminal cult in the final analysis, history has
proven that a thousand times. there is no victory from an indecent
stance.
If you enemy can get you to behave indecently it has won... it has won
totally.
I urge you to first treat each other with respect... and then treat
all of life with respect, at all times, regardless provocations to the
contrary.
It is on this path that one succeeds in life...
Fare well, Phil Scott
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's how I think Hubbard did his "research." He downed a bottle of
gin, popped a few pills, passed out and woke up hours later, clutching
the empty bottle and screaming "The psychs are coming, the psychs are
coming, they're crawling all over me. Get 'em off, get 'em off." And,
another Scientology rundown was thus created, the False Purpose rundown.
- ind...@aol.com (Indanm)
In Message-ID: <20010310005938...@ng-fr1.aol.com>
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In Message-ID: <3ab90ecf...@news.tdl.com>Wrote on the subject: Re: OSA 101 - the use of "black PR":
Final isn't always final, is it Phil? :-)
Fare well, Phil Scott
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"Phil Scott" <phils...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ab94268...@news.tdl.com...
> On 21 Mar 2001 14:41:34 -0800, Warrior <war...@entheta.net> wrote:
>
> Oh yes,and one other thing, why didn't you keep this subject in the
> original thread Tory was addressing, the cult and OSA's black PR
> tactics. A little too close for comfort?
Or maybe he thought it deserved its own topic. Phil, I'm right now
researching the google archive, formerly deja archive, and what I
remember is entirely correct thus far. I remember you stating that
the website was his, over and over, and I find that he told you, and
others told you, that the site was only a redirect site for
entheta.net, which was Marina Chong's site, and so far I've found
this is what was said at the time.
You wax hysterical now, and you waxed hysterical then.
Even the *victim* had no problem understanding this. Marina took down
her archive rather than correct it, too. The woman you insisted on
protecting as though she couldn't speak for herself was vocal on this
very newsgroup, and talked about clearing up the misconceptions you
had and the misconceptions about the "Miss X" articles. YOU were--and
are--the only one who refused to see what was told to you over and
over.
And you are still doing it.
I see no reason to keep on seeing you attack Mark when he has tried
to be reasonable with you, and I see no reason to continue the
conversation when it appears you are more dense than concrete once
you get an idea in that thick skull of yours. You are the one
consumed by hate, Phil, for some reason.
I'm done with you.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
>
> Hey I have another idea.... you get yet another fake name, another
> new ISP too, you can come up with a reason later, then come on and
> justify yourself. Oh yes and start some more threads so you can
> maybe get some names mentioned yet again and get the victim trashed
> further, then blame me or someone else for bringing up the subject.
>
> Hero.
>
> I suggest Mark that when someone brings up the subject of OSA
> covertly trashing the victims of the cult, and witnesses to its
> crimes, that you not try to make like goody two shoes as you stand
> as the author of one of the worst, curve ball, most damaging trash
> jobs yet seen on the net.
>
> Sort of obvious I thought.
>
Phil Scott
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mimus
I was just recently wondering about you, and sort of wishing you'd pop
back on (me having forgotten about this bizarreness) . . . .
Have you been "handled" somehow?
I saw
many people
reduced to
incoherent babbling,
stripping off clothes,
crawling around on the ground,
banging heads, limbs and other body parts
against furniture and walls,
barking,
losing all sense of one's identity
and intense and persistent suicidal ideation.
--Declaration of Andre Tabayoyon
I'm an OT.--Lisa McPherson
If you imagine 40-50 Scientologists
posting on the Internet every few days,
we'll just run the SP's right off the system.
It will be quite simple, actually.
--Elaine Siegel, OSA INT (1996)
Case 5/BTLA/SP1/BAD
Mistmagoo55
>From: phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott)
>Date: 3/21/01 5:51 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <3ab93069...@news.tdl.com
>>First of all, Phil, I don't "hate" you for bringing up the issue
Hi Phil....good to see ya back on the old network. How are you?
I know this is a major issue for you, but it is one that has been spoken of,
over and over. Can we put it to rest and move on?
There are some pressing issues you might want to contribute some thought
to...like Bush and his Faith Based program. Let's hear Phil on THAT...OK?
Hope all is well
Dave Bird
>
>Well, look. Look at what is said, and then look at the person they are speaking
>about. If you KNOW the person, but you do not know who the poster is, and the
>poster is saying something even a bit off re someone you know, make sure to
>stand up and say something. Some people are REALLY good at this. PTSC is
>excellent at this...and so is Sten-Arne and of course Andreas. Bunnyann is
>often good at this, and so is Barbz. Actually now that I start thinking of
>people, many names come to mind. Warrior, Arnie and Tilman are very good,
>Beverly is excellent, and so is Bid. Patricia, Greg Barnes, Tommy, Phineas, are
>all great. The list really goes on and on…. Ahh hell, too many to name, but
>it really makes a difference. Thank each and every one of you for taking a
>stand against this kind of thing.
>I know from working with OSA that their intent is to distract people, to put
>them down (if they have credibility and know any inside scoop). They will go to
>unbelievable measures to Black PR someone like this.
The best thing to do is "expose the game": say "how dare you slander
this person for exposing the fact your scummy cult killed someone."
Or show how it's hypocrisy because the cult does worse themselves,
or even better that Fat Ron did worse himself. (see sig)
--
' ' ' .:::. ' :: ' ' 'what do Scientologists say when ' http://www.
' (o\ /o) .::. ' you ask why their money-grubbing ' xemu.demon.
' \ " / XEMU ' killed a woman by starvation? ' co.uk '
' '-' :::: ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
' :v: \'''| ' BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT '
' ;;\:::/;;\/ / ' OO / / \ ? '
' ;;;;;;;;;BEER ' (~~) .00 @@-._ \ '
' WithAKick\/ ' ( ) ( =) (O ) ( ") (" )
' 'LikeAnHBomb ' ' ' ' ^^^^ ' ' ^^ ^^ ' ' ' ' ^^ ^^ ' ' "" ' ""
Dave Bird
<phils...@hotmail.com> writes:
>In light of this post from Tory regarding the cults use of black PR
>Mr Plummer,
Write me (on any subject other than Mar Plummer) if you like; I
won't be reading your newsgroup posts for a few weeks.
|~/ |~/
~~|;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;'^';-._.-;||';-._.-;'^';||_.-;'^'0-|~~
P | Woof Woof, Glug Glug ||____________|| 0 | P
O | Who Drowned the Judge's Dog? | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O | answers on *---|_______________ @__o0 | O
L |<a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"></a>_____________|/_______| L
www.xemu.demon.co.uk 2B0D 5195 337B A3E6 DDAC BD38 7F2F FD8E 7391 F44F
Phil Scott
Well it is a little hard to keep up with all the spin you put on your
regrettable activity in this matter 'warrior'. You present so many
versions of it, and there is so little time to try and sort it out.
Can you tell us again why you continued to elaborate on your
'observations based on bad memory' after the victim begged and
pleaded with you to shut the fuck up if you were going to be posting
such derogatory speculations.
The end result of course, surprise surprise is that the victim is
discredited as a witness and was not called for that reason to witness
in the McPherson case... one of the few survivors of such treatment
that could have affected the outcome of both the criminal and civil
cases against the cult... but no, you decided to post your derogatory
speculations based on a few seconds look into a room that you describe
both with and without a window...which is it bud?
Gotta get your story straight you know.....is that what you called
'help'... How you could call any tiny aspect of what you did to this
woman anthing but despicable eludes me entirely.
Phil Scott
Charlotte L. Kates
The reality is that Mark posted his story, his own memories of the horror that
is Scientology, anonymously. He did not sock-puppeteer, he did not use
identities to corroborate other identities nor to develop stories. Rather, he
spoke distinctly, in an individual voice, of what he saw.
The horrid pain caused by Scientology is entirely to be regretted. However, the
only way to ensure it does not continue is to bring to light the reality of
what Scientology is--all of us. If memories differ, then both accounts are let
to stand. But Warrior's posting does nothing to diminish the person in
question, or demean her--rather, she appears as a survivor of whatever Scn
could inflict upon her, however she or Warrior remember those times.
This is *not* a case of dishonesty. Demanding someone silence his memory and
his voice because it is unpleasant to others cannot be an acceptable resort --
rather, people who tell their truth are those who have brought the closed world
of CoS to light.
Warrior uses the phrase, "Sunshine disinfects," in his .sig. And really, that's
true. OSA isn't about the telling of personal truths or the reclamation of
memory and experience; it is about the suppression of both. To speak and
remember is not a vicious or dishonest act, but a highly personal one, and it
is essential that it is recognized as such, and as a necessity.
-charlotte.
Charlotte L. Kates CLK...@aol.com cka...@eden.rutgers.edu
http://members.xoom.com/justinusa/ - Justice International
http://www.offlines.org/ OFFLINESonline: freedom from Scientology
Practice organized resistance and conscious acts of solidarity!
Warrior
>
>Well it is a little hard to keep up with all the spin you put on your
>regrettable activity in this matter 'warrior'. You present so many
>versions of it, and there is so little time to try and sort it out.
I understand it is hard for you to keep up with the truth, considering
your lack of capacity for grasping simple facts. I've never put any
spin on this matter, but I must say I am not at all surprised that
you continue to post your twisted version of reality.
As to my version of the story, there has only ever been one version,
and my version is the truth. That is why I will not retract my words.
>Can you tell us again why you continued to elaborate on your
>'observations based on bad memory' after the victim begged and
>pleaded with you to shut the fuck up if you were going to be posting
>such derogatory speculations.
This is a non-sensical question. I never had "observations based
on bad memory". My observations are based upon reality that I
observed back in 1981.
And please post evidence of your allegation of the victim having
"begged and pleaded with [me] to shut ... up...". Of course,
you cannot post any such evidence because there is none.
>The end result of course, surprise surprise is that the victim is
>discredited as a witness and was not called for that reason to witness
>in the McPherson case... one of the few survivors of such treatment
>that could have affected the outcome of both the criminal and civil
>cases against the cult... but no, you decided to post your derogatory
>speculations based on a few seconds look into a room that you describe
>both with and without a window...which is it bud?
Please explain how the victim has been "discredited as a witness".
How on earth could the victim ever withstand the deposition process
if, as you alledge, she has been "discredited" by my postings?
I have _never_ described the room as having no window. Any person
familiar with the rooms in the Cedars Main Building that face east
(towards L Ron Hubbard Way, formerly called North Berendo Street)
_knows_ that they *all* have windows.
>Gotta get your story straight you know.....is that what you called
>'help'... How you could call any tiny aspect of what you did to this
>woman anthing but despicable eludes me entirely.
>
>Phil Scott
My story _is_ straight, Phil. I've never posted anything but my
observations.
Who in the hell are you to question my memory and recounting of
the victim's ordeal that I personally witnessed a part of twenty
years ago?
I was there to see what I saw.
You were NOT.
Rod Keller
: The reality is that Mark posted his story, his own memories of the horror that
: is Scientology, anonymously. He did not sock-puppeteer, he did not use
: identities to corroborate other identities nor to develop stories. Rather, he
: spoke distinctly, in an individual voice, of what he saw.
This is why I hosted Mark's pages when they were edited on other sites.
Mark has his recollections and that experience belongs to him. I
appreciate hearing what he has to say. It's important as primary
information. Phil, on the other had, is not a primary source. He's just
a wacko.
--
Rod Keller / rke...@voicenet.com / Irresponsible Publisher / Black Hat #1
Expert of the Toilet / CWPD Mouthpiece / Shelly Thompson in Drag
The Lerma Apologist / Merchant of Chaos / Vision of Destruction
Bigot of Mystery / OSA Patsy / Quasi-Scieno / Mental Bully / Killer Rod
Rod Keller
the attacks on Mark are not about the events he observed. Never once was
it claimed that there was not an isolation case, that waste was not
smeared on the walls, or that Mark wasn't there to observe it. I believe
Mark saw these things and reported them accurately.
Rod Keller
: In article <3ab977d8...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com says...
: >The end result of course, surprise surprise is that the victim is
: >discredited as a witness and was not called for that reason to witness
: >in the McPherson case... one of the few survivors of such treatment
: >that could have affected the outcome of both the criminal and civil
: >cases against the cult... but no, you decided to post your derogatory
: >speculations based on a few seconds look into a room that you describe
: >both with and without a window...which is it bud?
: I have _never_ described the room as having no window. Any person
: familiar with the rooms in the Cedars Main Building that face east
: (towards L Ron Hubbard Way, formerly called North Berendo Street)
: _knows_ that they *all* have windows.
From http://warrior.offlines.org/1996-1029a.html
-----------------------
She was locked alone in a small room with only a bed, and a guard was
posted outside 24 hours a day. Inside, the room was like a scene from the
movie "The Exorcist"! She looked like a crazed, wild animal. Her body was
filthy from her own feces that she had smeared on herself. She had
scrawled obscenities all over the walls by using her own feces - the most
crude things imaginable - like "F*** ME!! Eat SH**!! I want to DIE!! FU**
me daddy!! FU** ME!! FU** ME!!
She had also smeared excrement on the walls and floor and all over her
bed. She had ripped the sheets off her bed and had shredded them. She was
only half clothed, and there was urine all over the floor, which combined
with her other human waste made for a VERY revolting environment. Even in
the hallway from outside her room it was enough to cause me to gag. It was
all I could do to keep from throwing up.
------------------
I have never seen any allegation that any of this is untrue.
ladayla
(snipt)
Geez, Phil, I was excited when I saw your name on a message this morning. It had
been a long time since I had read anything on the NG that you had posted, altho'
I did notice that you had participated in a recent picket in SFO.
My excitement turned quickly to disappointment when I saw the content of your
message. I think that your perception of the Warrior is clouded by some sort of
misinformation. Is there anything that I could do, say, or be that would cause
you to forgive Warrior for his real or imagined transgressions as Miss X ?
I like both of you so much. It grieves me to see this ARCx between two fellows.
jana
>
>
>
>
tommyboy
Last June and July, in my spare time between fighting extradition to
Kentucky and being the phantom "anti-magoo" poster trying to irritate
the soup out of the Magooski spammer, hopefully pushing [it] into the
arms of the players at O.C., LMT, and XenuTV for help, I was E-chatting
a bit with Phil Scott. I was fascinated with his "theorist" approach to
being a usenet critic. He was quite entertaining. However, when I
talked with him on the phone once, it quickly became apparent that he
was a
hothead and a potential loose cannon.
Mark Plummer on the other hand, I know from
several CW picket events and having dinner with he and Tampawog (oops
Tim W.) last December. Also, I am very familiar with his
webbed accounts re: the Co$. Mark, is very
credible and a living example of how the cult
rips lives and families into shreds. I admire
his courage and feel deeply for his horrid $CN
experiences.
Last August while in a KY prison, I'll received
stacks of mail from well-wishers (including socks from Lianna :-)) The
jailers got a kick out
of all the envelopes with "www.xenu.net" marked on the outside. I got a
really kind and empathetic note from Mark. Got zippo from Phil though.
But I figured he congered it was just a "theory" that I was behind bars
rather than a reality. :-)
That's my 3 cents (2 cents adjusted for inflation - a cute little coined
thing I learned from Starshadow :-)
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Phil Scott
wrote:
Well I am done posting, I just came out of retirement to address this
issue again.
You mean I may have a missunderstanding? You mean maybe Plummer did
not post derogatory, soul destroying, dirt on this lady for two
straight years using 3 different fake names (all of which he denied
using until outed), while she pleaded with him not to post his
degrading opinions as though they were facts?
I am quite a bit more selective than that Jana.
Phil Scott, who will be off the NG again unless I see this turd
trying to make like he had not black pr'd this prime witnesss against
the cult into total oblivion (as she shuddered in horror, and as he
named her child under his fake Miss x name, and being forced by his
inaccurate accounts to relive the incident...with lies added on, .for
two solid years.)
What a guy. A real prince.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Phil Scott
I WILL be in clearwater next year Rod. I want to look into the eyes
of a man that would repeat this crap while the woman cringes in pain.
Im sure it will be quite an experience to meet such a hero. I hope
you are proud of yourself.
Phil Scott
Rod Keller
: I WILL be in clearwater next year Rod. I want to look into the eyes
: of a man that would repeat this crap while the woman cringes in pain.
:
: Im sure it will be quite an experience to meet such a hero. I hope
: you are proud of yourself.
I don't think you have the guts to show either of your faces in
Clearwater, just like you don't have the guts to back up any of your
allegations against Mark.
Since I first put up the Warrior/Miss X postings I've been asking,
begging, for even one innacuracy in the description by Mark. All I ever
got was a suggestion that maybe the waste smeared on the walls was put
there by somebody other than the person in such a sad state in the
isolation room. The unlikely "second shitter" theory. I've offered to web
a second narrative of the incident from the perspective of the woman who
was isolated. All I got back was mischaracterizations of Mark's posting,
bizarre attacks on somebody who protected himself and his family for a
while with pseudonyms, and demands that portions or the entire page be
removed.
Revisionist history is the tool of Scientology. It doesn't become
activists against Scientology, nor does it help prevent such attrocities
from happening in the future. We owe Scientologists in danger the courage
to tell the story the way it happened. But I don't think you believe in
anything resembling truth.
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
"tommyboy" <tommy...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1680-3AB...@storefull-215.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
You're welcome. And thanks for the stickers--they came today and
will be put to good use.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
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Mistmagoo55
>Message-id: <3ab977d8...@news.tdl.c
>Gotta get your story straight you know.....is that what you called
>'help'... How you could call any tiny aspect of what you did to this
>woman anthing but despicable eludes me entirely.
>
>Phil Scott
>
Phil,
I am truly sorry that you are still harping on this with Warrior. What will
bring it to a close? Please let us know, so for once and for ALL it can be put
to rest.
I understand you have feelings for this person, and I honestly think you THINK
you are helping someone by attacking warrior. But whatever was said and done,
that was then and this is now.
Even if she was upset, it has to be somewhat over due to time....bringing it
all back up here cannot be a great help to her, eh? How about SHE write
something to us all, telling how she feels. That may be the missing link.
IF she doesn't want to, why do you?
If she does, let's hear it. It is one or the other....and that is really all.
OK?
And I am glad you are back here, Phil. Fill us in on what all you have been up
to. Do you remember this time last year was about when I began posting to Phil
Scott about taking a vacation, remember?
Love to all,
Tory/Magoo!
>
>Phil Scott
>
Mistmagoo55
>101 - the use of "black PR"
>From: phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott)
>Message-id: <3aba5b52...@news.tdl.com>
>
>On 22 Mar 2001 17:10:11 GMT, rke...@netaxs.com (Rod Keller) wrote:
>
>
>
>I WILL be in clearwater next year Rod. I want to look into the eyes
>of a man that would repeat this crap while the woman cringes in pain.
>
>Im sure it will be quite an experience to meet such a hero. I hope
>you are proud of yourself.
>
>Phil Scott
>>
I understand your feelings, and perhaps even she doesn't want to hear about her
situation. However, it happened. The actual people to attack are the
Scientologists who did this to your friend. Neither Rod nor Warrior are the
correct target.
Please stop wrong targeting people. Get one thing straight: Scientology did
this to your friend, and others were around. It affected THEM also. Thus they
are speaking about it.
It is no doubt paiinful to them, also.
Who were the actual people who ran this op? They are the people you should be
seriously pissed at.The rest were part of this painful picture.
Bottom line is, you brought this issue back up. It has been off the net since
you left, and has returned with you bringing it up. So how much longer will we
hear of it?
As long as someone, including you, feels the need. So please do recognise you
also are rehashing this persons past.
If you want it dead, don't bring it up. Just a suggestion.
Hope all is well,
Tory
Mistmagoo55
>From: ladayla ladayla...@newsguy.com
>Date: 3/22/01 12:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <99dc6...@drn.newsguy.com>
>
>I like both of you so much. It grieves me to see this ARCx between two
>fellows.
>
>jana
>>
Well put Jana, and I agree! Also, this kind of ARCx is a direct result of some
kind of black PR, I promise you this. One line here, or an implication there,
and suddenly there is an upset too big to repair. That is exactly what third
party and Black PR is all about. Just know you are giving OSA a win. Do you
want to?
I didn't think so. So shake keyboards...and start a NEW day! :)
Tory/Magoo!
Phil Scott
>Phil,
>
>I am truly sorry that you are still harping on this with Warrior. What will
>bring it to a close? Please let us know, so for once and for ALL it can be put
>to rest.
>
>I understand you have feelings for this person
Not the case actually. I visited her while I was in sacramento on
business and have not seen her since. I am just revolted by the
scene... here we have a cult that routinely drives people to suicide,
they had this woman lock up and given the silent treatment.
Things can go badly south .... yet instead of letting her
heal...what does Plummer do? OPENS THE WOUND with derogatory account
against her wishes!
What the fuck is he trying to do drive her over the edge? Truly I
cannot fathom such heartlessness.
> and I honestly think you THINK
>you are helping someone by attacking warrior. But whatever was said and done,
>that was then and this is now.
I am not helping this woman by carving on Plummer... he just reposts
his libelous remarks (Mark, I will pay the attorney fees if YOU will
go to a lawyer and ask him how you can libel a person with such an
account as you have posted..... I will also pay for your day off work
to make the trip.) What you have done Mark is not in the least
decent or OK. I believe the attorney will tell you its libel... it
does damage you see. as a culture we recognise that and have made
laws to protect people from such. Most people think 'if its true
its not libel' well that is the issue I will pay you to consult an
attorney on. The issue is overridden when unnecessary damage
becomes the issue. In your case you are stating your opinion as
fact.
Beyond that there is common decency.
>
>Even if she was upset, it has to be somewhat over due to time....bringing it
>all back up here cannot be a great help to her, eh?
Its Mark Plummer and Rod Keller who insist on reposting the thing and
its Mark who has it on his web site. You see? I shut up for 6
months, stayed off of ars for 6 months, its still up on plummers web
site. I remain totally aghast at such behavior. It actually makes
me sick. After the last go round I ended up in the hospital
emergency room with a bleeding ulcer, I lost about 6 pints of blood,
it took surgery and 2 months to recover... trust me. I for whatever
reason simply cannot comprehend such ruthless treatment of a victim in
a circumstance where many dont make it... its a bad scene.
> How about SHE write
>something to us all, telling how she feels. That may be the missing link.
It rips her heart out to do that... she has done it though, and its
on Jeff Jacobsens web site. A full, complete and detailed write up
that cleanly refutes what Mark has so ruthlessly insisted on forcing
down her throat.
that write up has been there for at least a year, and has been
mentioned many times on the NG.
>IF she doesn't want to, why do you?
I was distressed to see that the effect of Marks write up was to trash
another cult victim and make her uncredible in court..... almost like
an OSA op..... Such activity makes me sick.
>
>If she does, let's hear it. It is one or the other....and that is really all.
>OK?
You have the reference. Look at one of Jeffs posts, his web site will
be listed at the end or you can look his web site up on clambake.
>
>And I am glad you are back here, Phil. Fill us in on what all you have been up
>to.
I am not back.
You have been doing exceptionally well though to say the least.
Phil Scott
M. C. DiPietra
phils...@hotmail.com wrote on 3/23/01 3:48 AM:
>
> Things can go badly south .... yet instead of letting her
> heal...what does Plummer do? OPENS THE WOUND with derogatory account
> against her wishes!
>
> What the fuck is he trying to do drive her over the edge? Truly I
> cannot fathom such heartlessness.
Phil, you are the one keeping the wound open.
I recently heard from the woman, and it's strange, since I hadn't heard from
her in a long time.
I don't understand why you say Warrior's words make her unbelievable in
court. Seems to me like you're doing more damage than Warrior's retelling of
his view of what happened, by making her believe she is still a victim. It's
hard to heal when someone is constantly telling you that.
And I definitely don't understand how anyone would think less of her or
stigmatize her for her role as essentially a POW. I don't care *what* she
wrote with on the wall; she's a good person with a lot of love inside her
who doesn't need to focus on the fact that her memories of a bad time are
different than someone else's memories of a bad time.
Whether her version or Warrior's version --or the version of another witness
who might hold another perspective that throws both of them in a new light -
is "true" is irrelevant when you consider the basic idea that someone was
HELD AGAINST THEIR WILL. I'm sure there is more information to this than
either party can contribute. Phil, you are contributing *nothing* except
introducing a whole 'nother generation of a.r.s. readers to Terry's problem,
which, according to her, does not need the publicity.
Phil, whether or not you want to, you're not helping her.
http://mp3.com/MaggieCouncil XENU WORLD ORDER CD now available
M.C.DiPietra <mdip...@earthlink.net>, SP4, KoX
"Hell, if you understood everything I say, you'd be me!" -Miles Davis
Rod Keller
: Things can go badly south .... yet instead of letting her
: heal...what does Plummer do? OPENS THE WOUND with derogatory account
: against her wishes!
I think the only real point of significance to come out of all of this
manufactured controversy is that people's experiences are their own. Mark
Plummer had experiences in Scientology, and they belong to him. Tory had
experiences in Scientology with various business partners, and they show
them in a very bad light, and those memories belong to her. Arnie,
Charlotte, Frank, Stacy, Jesse, all of these folks have told their stories
as they remember them. The stories involve other people, but nobody can
tell them to keep quiet.
Starshadow
Hash: SHA1
<t...@ibexbsc.com> wrote in message
news:kcembtc7o0vqq13dh...@4ax.com...
> In <3abb0dda...@news.tdl.com>, phils...@hotmail.com (Phil
> Scott) wrote:
>
> What is with this shit? I mention you, Whippersnapper, and
> Rumbunny in one post, and you all come back? All at once?
>
Keith Little is back? Where?
> Too fucking weird. I'm re-killfiling the lot of you, and all your
> BTs, all together.
>
I'm about to k/f Phil. Rumbunny, I will stay with to point out to
everyone that he lies like a cheap rug, so newbies don't confuse him
with someone with something cogent to say.
- --
Bright Blessings,
Starshadow, KoX, SP4, Official Wiccan Chaplain ARSCC(wdne)
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tommyboy
I see you and I share similar opinions re: the ubiquitous Mr. Phil S.
2 questions. Are you going to attend the AFF conference in NJ this May?
Also, can you forward me (again) the snapshot URL of Xenu/Tilman and I
from 12/1/00. Sorry lost it.
Promise I'll save it this time.
Hope you are well!?
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Konchok Penday
Scott) wrote in thread "Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of reality
straight - was Re: OSA 101 - the use of "black PR"", on Fri, 23 Mar 2001
08:48:31 GMT, :
Tory wrote to Phill Scott [UberWanKing]
>>Phil,
>>
>>I am truly sorry that you are still harping on this with Warrior.
>>What will bring it to a close? Please let us know, so for once
>>and for ALL it can be put to rest.
>>I understand you have feelings for this person
Phill UberWanKing replies:
>Not the case actually. I visited her while I was in sacramento on
>business and have not seen her since. I am just revolted by the
>scene... here we have a cult that routinely drives people to >suicide, they had this woman lock up and given the silent >treatment.
>
>Things can go badly south ....
You ARE badly south!
. . . VERY badly south!
>yet instead of letting her heal...what does Plummer do?
>OPENS THE WOUND with derogatory account
>against her wishes!
WHO is bringing up this topic YET AGAIN! ?
This must make her *SO* HAPPY!
>What the fuck is he trying to do drive her over the edge?
>Truly I cannot fathom such heartlessness.
Said the man who burned a fellow critic for $10,000
on a bet over HIS OWN LIES, and then OUTED him!
Your "compassion" is heartrending!
>> and I honestly think you THINK you are helping someone
>>by attacking warrior. But whatever was said and done,
>>that was then and this is now.
>I am not helping this woman by carving on Plummer...
You are not helping anyone . . . by anything you do!
>he just reposts his libelous remarks (Mark, I will pay
WANK!
You're big on talk, but when you *LOSE* $10,000
on your stupid big-mouth bets, you *DON'T* PAY!
>the attorney fees if YOU will go to a lawyer and
>ask him how you can libel a person with such an
>account as you have posted.....
FREE CLUE:
TRUTH IS NOT LIBEL!
>I will also pay for your day off work to make the trip.)
Bla, bla, bla.
Your word that you will pay is . . . WORTHLESS!
>What you have done Mark is not in the least decent or OK.
>I believe the attorney will tell you its libel... it
>does damage you see.
But OUTING CRITICS is *NOT* damaging?
GET A CLUE, IDIOT!
Are you sure the surgeons didn't remove your brain?
>as a culture we recognise that and have made
>laws to protect people from such. Most people think 'if its true
>its not libel' well that is the issue I will pay you to consult an
>attorney on. The issue is overridden when unnecessary damage
>becomes the issue. In your case you are stating your opinion as
>fact.
And is OUTING people "unnecessary" damage,
or did your "Body Thetans" *MAKE* you do it?
. . . Which was "necessary"?
>Beyond that there is common decency.
Which YOU have shown by
1] burning me for $10,000
2] OUTING ME
What a *STUPID FUCK* you are!
>>Even if she was upset, it has to be somewhat over due to time....
>>bringing it all back up here cannot be a great help to her, eh?
>Its Mark Plummer and Rod Keller who insist on reposting
>the thing and its Mark who has it on his web site.
>You see?
We see YOU wanking about it NOW!
>I shut up for 6 months, stayed off of ars for 6 months,
>its still up on plummers web site.
HEY!
YOU PROMISED *NEVER* TO POST HERE AGAIN!
WHAT'S UP WITH YOUR "PROMISES"? . . .
"I WILL NOT BACK OFF FROM THIS BET!"
BRAINWIPE!
>I remain totally aghast at such behavior.
>It actually makes me sick.
WOW!
THEN *STOP* DOING IT . . . IDIOT!
>After the last go round I ended up in the hospital
>emergency room with a bleeding ulcer, I lost about 6 pints of >blood, it took surgery and 2 months to recover... trust me.
???????????
TRUST YOU!
???????????
The stupid fuck who burned me for $10,000 on
a public bet, and then OUTED ME! YOU JOKE!
WHAT A *WANKER*!
You *ARE* a joke!
But Hey!
You ALMOST made it to *THE VOID*!
Keep up your stupid wank,
. . . and you might make it!
>I for whatever reason simply cannot comprehend
Yes. You are a stupid fuckwad for whom the simplest
and most obvious things are totally incomprehensible!
>such ruthless treatment of a victim in a circumstance
>where many dont make it... its a bad scene.
*YOU* are a bad scene.
>> How about SHE write something to us all, telling
>>how she feels. That may be the missing link.
>It rips her heart out to do that... she has done it though,
>and its on Jeff Jacobsens web site. A full, complete and
>detailed write up that cleanly refutes what Mark has so
>ruthlessly insisted on forcing down her throat.
>
>that write up has been there for at least a year,
>and has been mentioned many times on the NG.
>>IF she doesn't want to, why do you?
>I was distressed to see that the effect of Marks write up was
>to trash another cult victim and make her uncredible in court..... >almost like an OSA op..... Such activity makes me sick.
*WHOSE* activity makes *YOU* sick?
BUT YOU TOLD US *YOU* HAD *NO CASE* AT ALL!
Zero, zip, nada, none, absolutely zero!
But NOW you are CLAIMING psychosmatic illness!
I guess you were *WRONG* about that . . . *TOO*!
FREE CLUE! . . .
IT'S *YOUR* BEHAVIOR THAT MAKES *YOU* ILL!
[Unless you claim "credit" for the ills of others?]
>>If she does, let's hear it. It is one or the other....
>>and that is really all. OK?
>You have the reference. Look at one of Jeffs posts,
>his web site will be listed at the end or you can look
>his web site up on clambake.
>>And I am glad you are back here, Phil.
>>Fill us in on what all you have been up to.
>I am not back.
TYPICAL PHILLOGIC!
I guess it's just your Body Thetans posting in your place?
>You have been doing exceptionally well though to say the least.
>
>Phil Scott
And how are you doing with the hundreds of
thousands of dollars you made in the Great
Tech Bull Market, with *MY* $10,000? IDIOT!
Konchok Penday
tommyboy
to be an e-mail and hit the wrong key.
Senior moment here - not an OT move! ;)
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Phil Scott
I am quite sure of that Maggie. I have been entirely unable to help
her in this situation. The fact is also that against her wishes not
me, but mark plummer is keeping his damning opininions on the web.
I consider it an act of spritual *murder. these two guys, mark and
rod instead of attacking me, choose to just trash the victim more by
doing what she has begged them not to do.
I remain totally appalled.
Phil Scott
©Anti-Cult® - www.users.wineasy.se/noname/
In Message-ID: <1682-3AB...@storefull-215.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
From: tommy...@webtv.net (tommyboy).
Organization: WebTV Subscriber.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of reality
straight - was Re: O...:
You can't cancel an article by posting something like this. You have to
use the cancel function on your newsreader.
Sten-Arne
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's how I think Hubbard did his "research." He downed a bottle of
gin, popped a few pills, passed out and woke up hours later, clutching
the empty bottle and screaming "The psychs are coming, the psychs are
coming, they're crawling all over me. Get 'em off, get 'em off." And,
another Scientology rundown was thus created, the False Purpose rundown.
- ind...@aol.com (Indanm)
In Message-ID: <20010310005938...@ng-fr1.aol.com>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
******* Body thetans? We don't need no stinking Body Thetans! *******
*********** http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/index.htm ************
IRC #Scientology JavaChat http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/irc.html
* Multimedia: http://www.users.wineasy.se/noname/multimed/index.htm *
******** The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com (Anti-Cult) ********
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Scott
(tommyboy) wrote:
>CANCEL previous post to Rod. Was meant
>to be an e-mail and hit the wrong key.
>
>Senior moment here - not an OT move! ;)
Yes I was a bit surprised at your remarks, especially since I had
emailed you, and then called to discuss hiring you for some projects I
was doing when you posted that you were broke and could not find work.
That was dissapointing... and btw I did send you a letter when you
were in the county jail, it got returned . apparently they had moved
you to another facility.
I truly fail to understand the reluctance to remove or correct very
personal and very derogatory material from the web at the request of
the victim,
and then when Mark is not happy with ME, he shows it by reposting the
crap about the lady. I suggest that if anyone is not happy with ME
that they come after ME...not someone else..
I have also offered to fund Marks visit and time off to see a libel
attorney and discuss both the moral and legal issues of the stuff he
has put on the web over this ladys objections. That would be
revealing indeed. He might wish to see a trauma counselor as well and
see what his sort of activity does to a person.... its murderously
damaging.
I have offered Rod a complete list of my current consulting clients
(major fortune 500 companies, with phone numbers and contacts) so that
if he wishes he can try ruining me directly (that wouldnt end well
though you see), he has instead chosen to continue this soul
destroying activity of ignoring the victims wishes and has not come
after me, instead he forwards this crap about the lady.
It makes me sick.
Phil Scott
>
>Tom
>------------------------------
>http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
>
©Anti-Cult® - www.users.wineasy.se/noname/
In Message-ID: <3abb95a6...@news.tdl.com>
From: phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott).
Organization: The Diamond Lane.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of reality
straight - was Re: O...:
[snip]
>I truly fail to understand the reluctance to remove or correct very
>personal and very derogatory material from the web at the request of
>the victim,
>
Can you see Phil, that the same argument has been used by scientology,
to make critics take down websites which scientology believes are
"personal and very derogatory material"?
You're a hypocrite Phil Scott.
Rod Keller
: 2 questions. Are you going to attend the AFF conference in NJ this May?
: Also, can you forward me (again) the snapshot URL of Xenu/Tilman and I
: from 12/1/00. Sorry lost it.
: Promise I'll save it this time.
:
: Hope you are well!?
This was meant to be an email, but OK. The URL is
http://parishioner.org/picket/tilman.jpg
I haven't yet made plans for AFF, but if anybody is thinking about going,
I would recommend it. A chance to hear Robert Lifton speak is worth the
price of admission alone. AFF, Leo J. Ryan and Cult Information Service
meetings have been invaluable to me in understanding more about cults.
Sometimes I get a little tunnel vision wrt Scientology, and it really
helps to see people from other cults, and people who are counseling on a
regular basis.
Phil Scott
>tommyboy (tommy...@webtv.net) wrote:
>: 2 questions. Are you going to attend the AFF conference in NJ this May?
>: Also, can you forward me (again) the snapshot URL of Xenu/Tilman and I
>: from 12/1/00. Sorry lost it.
>: Promise I'll save it this time.
>:
>: Hope you are well!?
>
>This was meant to be an email, but OK. The URL is
>http://parishioner.org/picket/tilman.jpg
>
>I haven't yet made plans for AFF, but if anybody is thinking about going,
>I would recommend it. A chance to hear Robert Lifton speak is worth the
>price of admission alone. AFF, Leo J. Ryan and Cult Information Service
>meetings have been invaluable to me in understanding more about cults.
>Sometimes I get a little tunnel vision wrt Scientology,
> and it really
>helps to see people from other cults, and people who are counseling on a
>regular basis.
Its good to hear you are talking with these sorts of people, maybe you
could talk to them about how to treat a trauma victim so damage is
reduced.
Phil Scott
jana
says...
here's an opinion for y'all:
I emailed "the lady" back and forth numerous times. As I told her, if huborg had
spiked her vitamins with drugs, as they did with David Voorhies, she would have
no idea what she was doing with the wall. She could've thought she was cleaning
it with Ivory soap. After some lengthy emails, I arrived at the opinion that She
was an extremely fragile person. Putting her in a trial scene, particularly in
front of ruthless rtc lawyers might well drive her right over the brink of
sanity. I think that it was a blessing for her that she was not called to
participate in person at the trial.
and now for some evaluation:
Phil, you are refusing reality. The only person in this cycle who has no
credence is YOU. Could you get exterior to it and take a new look in a new unit
of time? Or are you just here having a good time at Warrior's expense? You came
on here attacking the Warrior and caused the whole Terry can of worms to be
opened again. YOU caused that. If anyone is to be castigated for the story
showing up again, it is YOU.
jana
Phil Scott
www.users.wineasy.se/noname/ <The.Galacti...@ThePentagon.com>
wrote:
>On Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:27:54 GMT.
>In Message-ID: <3abb95a6...@news.tdl.com>
>From: phils...@hotmail.com (Phil Scott).
>Organization: The Diamond Lane.
>Wrote on the subject: Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of reality
>straight - was Re: O...:
>
>[snip]
>
>>I truly fail to understand the reluctance to remove or correct very
>>personal and very derogatory material from the web at the request of
>>the victim,
>>
>
>Can you see Phil, that the same argument has been used by scientology,
>to make critics take down websites which scientology believes are
>"personal and very derogatory material"?
>
>You're a hypocrite Phil Scott.
>
>Sten-Arne
The cult has a long and hard core criminal record, and a record for
destroying others. Posting that material about them, and exposing
these CRIMES, is not at all the same as posting destructive material
about an innocent victim with no history of crimes and harming people.
Can you see that point Sten-Arne?
Is this way of treating the victims conducive to getting more of the
victims to come forward, or will they wish to avoid the exposure?
What would a trauma councelor have to say about how this stuff was
publicly posted.
Is there no consideration for the heart and life of the victim?
Phil Scott
>
M. C. DiPietra
phils...@hotmail.com wrote on 3/23/01 1:12 PM:
>
>
>> Phil, whether or not you want to, you're not helping her.
>
> I am quite sure of that Maggie. I have been entirely unable to help
> her in this situation. The fact is also that against her wishes not
> me, but mark plummer is keeping his damning opininions on the web.
>
They are opinions. That is all. Let it go.
> I consider it an act of spritual *murder. these two guys, mark and
> rod instead of attacking me, choose to just trash the victim more by
> doing what she has begged them not to do.
It makes no sense to trash you, or her - but it also makes no sense to ask
people to edit something they believe they saw into something they don't
believe they saw, just because you don't like it.
Phil, perhaps you're not leaving room for the possibility that they both are
right somehow, and there is other information that could come forward to
finish the story. The chances of that only increase when both Mark and the
woman put their stories side by side. It decreases when you start to censor.
Asking Mark to tell something he says he didn't see demeans all that our
lovely lady has gone through already.
> I remain totally appalled.
Point taken, but it's unnecessary to perpetuate it.
best,
-maggie
http://mp3.com/MaggieCouncil XENU WORLD ORDER CD now available
M.C.DiPietra <mdip...@earthlink.net>, SP4, KoX
"Hell, if you understood everything I say, you'd be me!" -Miles Davis
>
> Phil Scott
Konchok Penday
Scott) wrote in thread "Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of reality
straight - was Re: OSA 101 - the use of "black PR"", on Fri, 23 Mar
2001 18:12:34 GMT, :
Phill Scott:
>>> Things can go badly south .... yet instead of letting her
>>> heal...what does Plummer do? OPENS THE WOUND
>>>with derogatory account against her wishes!
And UberWanKing keeps ripping the
wound open, to PROVE it's bleeding!
And then pointing at it and SHRIEKING as
loud as he can . . . to protect her privacy!
What a champion of justice!
>>> What the fuck is he trying to do drive her over the edge?
>>>Truly I cannot fathom such heartlessness.
"M. C. DiPietra" wrote:
>>Phil, you are the one keeping the wound open.
>>
>>I recently heard from the woman, and it's strange, since
>>I hadn't heard from her in a long time.
>>
>>I don't understand why you say Warrior's words make her unbelievable in
>>court. Seems to me like you're doing more damage than Warrior's retelling of
>>his view of what happened, by making her believe she is still a victim. It's
>>hard to heal when someone is constantly telling you that.
>>
>>And I definitely don't understand how anyone would think less of her or
>>stigmatize her for her role as essentially a POW. I don't care *what* she
>>wrote with on the wall; she's a good person with a lot of love inside her
>>who doesn't need to focus on the fact that her memories of a bad time are
>>different than someone else's memories of a bad time.
>>
>>Whether her version or Warrior's version --or the version of another witness
>>who might hold another perspective that throws both of them in a new light -
>>is "true" is irrelevant when you consider the basic idea that someone was
>>HELD AGAINST THEIR WILL. I'm sure there is more information to this than
>>either party can contribute. Phil, you are contributing *nothing* except
>>introducing a whole 'nother generation of a.r.s. readers to Terry's problem,
>>which, according to her, does not need the publicity.
>
>>Phil, whether or not you want to, you're not helping her.
Phill UberWanKing:
>I am quite sure of that Maggie.
>I have been entirely unable to help her in this situation.
You can't help yourself either.
>The fact is also that against her wishes not me,
She hates you too?
>but mark plummer is keeping his damning opininions on the web.
And UnberWanKing is NOT posting his?
>I consider it an act of spritual *murder.
But your considerations are so WHACKO
they may be safely ignored. You have also
blamed Mark for YOU losing 6 pints of blood.
Maybe you could explain how that works?
But you think OUTING CRITICS is JUST FINE!
I consider YOU an act of SPIRITUAL SUICIDE!
>these two guys, mark and rod instead of attacking me,
WHO is attacking Mark and Rod?
>choose to just trash the victim more by
>doing what she has begged them not to do.
>
>I remain totally appalled.
>
>Phil Scott
You ARE totally APPALLING.
I'm so glad you are "NOT back"!
Konchok Penday
Konchok Penday
Scott) wrote in thread "Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of reality
tommy...@webtv.net (tommyboy) wrote:
>>CANCEL previous post to Rod. Was meant
>>to be an e-mail and hit the wrong key.
>>
>>Senior moment here - not an OT move! ;)
>>
>>Tom
>>------------------------------
>>http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Phill "UberWanKing" Scott replies:
>Yes I was a bit surprised at your remarks, especially since
>I had emailed you, and then called to discuss hiring you for
>some projects I was doing when you posted that you were
>broke and could not find work.
>
>That was dissapointing... and btw I did send you a letter
>when you were in the county jail, it got returned . apparently
>they had moved you to another facility.
>
>I truly fail to understand the reluctance to remove or correct
>very personal and very derogatory material from the web at the >request of the victim,
But you saw NO reason to remove or correct the
CONTINUOUS *LIES* YOU SPEWED ABOUT ME,
[and in fact *BET* $10,000 ON . . . AND LOST!],
in spite of my repeated corrections of them!
>and then when Mark is not happy with ME, he
>shows it by reposting the crap about the lady.
There is NO evidence of that.
But then evidence is irrelevant to you.
Only your hallucinations matter to you.
>I suggest that if anyone is not happy with ME
>that they come after ME...not someone else..
And get the money put up BEFORE the bet!
>I have also offered to fund Marks visit and time off
But UberWanKing's promises of payment
are just as valuable as Hell Rum Scumbag's.
>to see a libel attorney and discuss both the moral and
>legal issues of the stuff he has put on the web over this
>ladys objections. That would be revealing indeed.
You might consider both the moral and legal issues
of *LYING* about critics, and then *OUTING* them!
You are the one who wanks endlessly about the
KARMIC KONSEQUENCES of bad faith, and now
you are ALLEGING that MARK'S bad faith has
given YOU a psychosomatic disease. IDIOT!
"IT'S YOUR DEMO!"
>He might wish to see a trauma counselor as well and
>see what his sort of activity does to a person....
>its murderously damaging.
Mark seems to be doing fine.
IT'S *YOU* WHO IS CAVED IN!
What happened to all your *BRAG*
about how much money you have,
and how healthy you are compared
to me, with my periodontal disease?
>I have offered Rod a complete list of my current consulting
>clients (major fortune 500 companies, with phone numbers
>and contacts) so that if he wishes he can try ruining me
>directly (that wouldnt end well though you see), he has
>instead chosen to continue this soul destroying activity of
>ignoring the victims wishes and has not come after me,
>instead he forwards this crap about the lady.
It seems you are doing a fine job of ruining yourself!
>It makes me sick.
>Phil Scott
Sorry, Idiot . . .
*YOU* MAKE YOU SICK!
Tho the spectacle is
slightly nauseating!
Konchok Penday
Rod Keller
: I truly fail to understand the reluctance to remove or correct very
: personal and very derogatory material from the web at the request of
: the victim,
What is incorrect about his recollection? There has never been an answer
to this basic question. As for it being personal, it is. The web page in
question is the very personal recollection of Mark Plummer.
: I have offered Rod a complete list of my current consulting clients
: (major fortune 500 companies, with phone numbers and contacts) so that
: if he wishes he can try ruining me directly (that wouldnt end well
: though you see), he has instead chosen to continue this soul
: destroying activity of ignoring the victims wishes and has not come
: after me, instead he forwards this crap about the lady.
:
: It makes me sick.
Let me get this straight. You're angry at me because I didn't call your
clients to try to destroy you. I think you're correct in one thing only.
You are sick.
Rod Keller
: On 23 Mar 2001 19:22:16 GMT, rke...@netaxs.com (Rod Keller) wrote:
: >I haven't yet made plans for AFF, but if anybody is thinking about going,
: >I would recommend it. A chance to hear Robert Lifton speak is worth the
: >price of admission alone. AFF, Leo J. Ryan and Cult Information Service
: >meetings have been invaluable to me in understanding more about cults.
: >Sometimes I get a little tunnel vision wrt Scientology,
: > and it really
: >helps to see people from other cults, and people who are counseling on a
: >regular basis.
:
: Its good to hear you are talking with these sorts of people, maybe you
: could talk to them about how to treat a trauma victim so damage is
: reduced.
I think they do a great job of it already.
Konchok Penday
(Phil Scott) wrote in thread "Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of
reality straight - was Re: O...", on Fri, 23 Mar 2001 20:41:02 GMT, :
Phill "UberWanKing" Scott:
>>>I truly fail to understand the reluctance to remove or
>>>correct very personal and very derogatory material
>>>from the web at the request of the victim,
©Anti-Cult® replies:
>>Can you see Phil, that the same argument has been used
>>by scientology, to make critics take down websites which >>scientology believes are "personal and very derogatory >>material"?
>>
>>You're a hypocrite Phil Scott.
>>
>>Sten-Arne
Phill "UberWanKing" Scott:
>The cult has a long and hard core criminal record,
YOU have a criminal record . . .
and BOAST of being hard-core!
>and a record for destroying others.
And YOU have a public record of lying,
welshing on bets, and outing critics.
Gosh! Are you from the O$A?
>Posting that material about them, and exposing
>these CRIMES, is not at all the same as posting
>destructive material about an innocent victim with
>no history of crimes and harming people.
Is it more like lying, welshing
on bets, and outing critics?
>Can you see that point Sten-Arne?
WHAT point?
>Is this way of treating the victims conducive to getting more of the
>victims to come forward, or will they wish to avoid the exposure?
You mean by putting *MORE* attention on
the situation? AS YOU ARE DOING NOW!
>What would a trauma councelor have to say
>about how this stuff was publicly posted.
What would a trauma councelor have to say
about lying, welshing on bets, and outing critics?
>Is there no consideration for the heart and life of the victim?
>
>Phil Scott
Is there no consideration for the heart and life of the victim?
SO GLAD YOU'RE "NOT BACK"!
GET A CLUE, IDIOT!
WELCOME 2
ACTUALITY!
DO UCP & SEE!
O
--- )
\
Konchok Penday
<K...@net-prophet.net>
Research & Technical Writing
Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev
Technical Excellence Award :-)
*TEST* THE UNIVERSAL CLEARING PROCESS!
http://net-prophet.net/godshome/godshome.htm
GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! @ net-prophet.net
UCP USENET POSTS @ alt.clearing.technology
on Homer's free news server: news2.lighlink.com
THE UCP WITNESS SCHOOL IS NOW OPEN!
GLOBAL SERVICE AT REASONABLE RATES . . .
DO A 24-HOUR KP APPRENTICESHIP BY PHONE!
RE-EVALUATION COUNSELLORS, LEARN UCP!
DOWNLOAD THE FREE UCP VIRTUAL WITNESS NOW!
http://net-prophet.net/godshome/download/vw091b.zip
Extract the vw091b.zip file to it's own directory.
Read the ReadMe.htm file, and then simply open
VirtualWitness.htm in your browser. *LOOK* at
your LIFE, and ANSWER the SIMPLE QUESTIONS!
YOU WILL RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS, NOW!
Phil Scott
>Phil Scott (phils...@hotmail.com) wrote:
>: On 23 Mar 2001 19:22:16 GMT, rke...@netaxs.com (Rod Keller) wrote:
>: >I haven't yet made plans for AFF, but if anybody is thinking about going,
>: >I would recommend it. A chance to hear Robert Lifton speak is worth the
>: >price of admission alone. AFF, Leo J. Ryan and Cult Information Service
>: >meetings have been invaluable to me in understanding more about cults.
>: >Sometimes I get a little tunnel vision wrt Scientology,
>: > and it really
>: >helps to see people from other cults, and people who are counseling on a
>: >regular basis.
>:
>: Its good to hear you are talking with these sorts of people, maybe you
>: could talk to them about how to treat a trauma victim so damage is
>: reduced.
>
>I think they do a great job of it already.
To me its a matter of common decency. Not something 'they' do, but
something I owe to others. If one does not honor that duty imho, the
pit can get pretty deep after that.
Phil Scott
tommyboy
I understand you will be in Clearwater for the
next Dec. picket to meet with Rod and Warrior.
See ya there. I would be glad to meet. I am most humble enough
retract any inaccurate
commentary I've made and offer all appropriate apologies. Actually, I
would like to further hear your theories on black people and dark
allies.
Rod:
Tunnel vision? I'd say so.....it's kind of like looking through the
core of a paper towel
roll. Btw, in addition to Lifton, other worthy presenters in mind
control and aberrative cult behavior will be: Singer, Langone, Branch,
Pardon, Hassan, Kent, Zablocki, Rosedale,
and more. And of course OSA minions will be there doing their standard
DA drills pretending to be a persecuted religion.
Sten-Arne:
There is no news reader cancel feature through the WebTv ISP. At least
not that I'm aware of.
But thanks for the techie tip, I'll look into it for any future posting
blunders I make. Now get back to your Dorian identity
search........can't wait for his (or her) unveiling. :)
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Rod Keller
: Btw, in addition to Lifton, other worthy presenters in mind
: control and aberrative cult behavior will be: Singer, Langone, Branch,
: Pardon, Hassan, Kent, Zablocki, Rosedale,
: and more. And of course OSA minions will be there doing their standard
: DA drills pretending to be a persecuted religion.
These are all terrific speakers, but for sheer usefulness, Herb Rosedale
does just a terrific job with his legal summary. I've seen him speak a few
times before, and he runs down every decision and piece of legislation
that concerns cults and counseling, and it's just terrific.
tommyboy
Yes Rosedale is GOOD! He is very versed in our favorite group's
grotesque litigious
behavior as the biggest bullies on the block
in the cult neighborhood. I'll tell you more in private about Herb.
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts
Konchok Penday
Scott) wrote in thread "Re: Setting Phil's twisted version of reality
rke...@netaxs.com (Rod Keller) wrote:
>>: >I haven't yet made plans for AFF, but if anybody is thinking about going,
>>: >I would recommend it. A chance to hear Robert Lifton speak is worth the
>>: >price of admission alone. AFF, Leo J. Ryan and Cult Information Service
>>: >meetings have been invaluable to me in understanding more about cults.
>>: >Sometimes I get a little tunnel vision wrt Scientology,
>>: > and it really
>>: >helps to see people from other cults, and people who are counseling on a
>>: >regular basis.
Phill "UberWanKing" Scott replied:
>>: Its good to hear you are talking with these sorts of people, maybe you
>>: could talk to them about how to treat a trauma victim so damage is
>>: reduced.
Rod Keller:
>>I think they do a great job of it already.
UberWanKing:
>To me its a matter of common decency.
Like LYING about critics,
BURNING them on bets,
and finally OUTING them?
>Not something 'they' do, but something I owe to others.
Like LYING about critics,
BURNING them on bets,
and finally OUTING them?
Have you considered that there might
be other things you owe to others, such
as Apologies, Payments, and Amends?
. . . or perhaps "The Honorable Thing"?
>If one does not honor that duty imho,
>the pit can get pretty deep after that.
>
>Phil Scott
Wow! Last year you were MIGHTILY BOASTING
about how much money you were going to make
in the high-tech bull market [with MY $10,000], and
how wonderful your health was, as opposed to my
very long term periodontal disease, and claiming
it was due to YOUR good karma, as opposed to my
serious "out ethics". HOW TIMES HAVE CHANGED!
NOW you are six pints down, and 60% on the NASDAQ,
and "running on empty' in a really *DEEP* PIT! But now
you are BLAMING *YOUR* CONDITION, NOT ON YOUR
*OWN* BAD KARMA, but on Mark's. You have claimed
*MARK* MADE YOU SICK with your bleeding ulcers!
EXACTLY HOW DID *MARK* CAUSE *YOUR* ULCER?
You want to position yourself as a bleeding heart,
but actually you are just another bleeding ulcer.
I'm so glad you are "not back"!
Thanks for the Wanks!
Konchok Penday
Phil Scott
(tommyboy) wrote:
>Phil:
>I understand you will be in Clearwater for the
>next Dec. picket to meet with Rod and Warrior.
>See ya there. I would be glad to meet. I am most humble enough
>retract any inaccurate
>commentary I've made and offer all appropriate apologies. Actually, I
>would like to further hear your theories on black people and dark
>allies.
You nutz or something what is this shit about black people and dark
allies? You are not referring to my series 'beyond the black
magicans are you?
tommyboy
No, I'm not nutz. Just got through with a post
trying to convince Starshadow of the same
beliefs.
But hey, NBD, we'll talk about those subjects you brought up in CW in
the December. OKAY DOEKAY? :)
Peace,
Tom
------------------------------
http://community.webtv.net/tommyboy508/TomPadgetts