Percentage of Plagarism as of 2015

[Etznab]

Some persons on this group have boasted about having seen all the plagiarisms, as if "been there and done that". So many of these self-professed know-it-all's long ago tried to qualify the amount of plagiarisms as about 2 percent, etc., or (according to Marman at one time) no three consecutive words in a row.

I have to question these and other persons who say they know all about the plagiarisms, because How can they qualify and rate the amount when at the same time they are unaware of the amount?

Long, long ago Paul Twitchell's submissions for Orion Magazine were no longer accepted after he was found to have plagiarized large sections of books. This is based on an eye witness intimately familiar with the company that owns and was in charge of Orion Magazine (Roy Eugene Davis).

The point being made here is that Paul Twitchell had a history of plagiarizing and copying from other people's books (because they said it better than he could, according to Dr. Louis Bluth, whatever), but who is truly familiar with the full extent?

"The Flute of God" was published in Orion Magazine. It was one of the earliest forms of the book by Paul Twitchell. It was also one where he copied large tracts from other authors. Do Eckists truly know how much of that book was copied? If Eckankar does not provide the information then How could they know? How could they know unless they looked?

I wonder how much of The Flute of God is copied and borrowed material? It was Doug Marman, I believe, who told us that Paul had used material from Ouspensky. Well, In what book was the copied material published? Was it in The Flute of God? Someone needs to look into this. Maybe it can be done here at a.r.e.

[wernertrp]

Did Twitchell really copy from Ouspensky ?
Why not copy some things from Gurdjieff ?
http://www.gurdjieff.org/index.en.htm
Gurdjieff would clap onto his shanks and nonstop laughing.

[Etznab]

Paul Twitchell probably did copy things from Gurdjieff.

[Etznab]

On Sunday, September 20, 2015 at 10:00:11 AM UTC-5, wernertrp wrote:

Here is a small sample for you Wernertrp.

Quoting ...

[...] During one conversation with G. in our group, which was beginning to become permanent, I asked: "Why, if ancient knowledge has been preserved and if, speaking in general, there exists a knowledge distinct from our science and philosophy or even surpassing it, is it so carefully concealed, why is it not made common property? Why are the men who possess this knowledge unwilling to let it pass into the general circulation of life for the sake of a better and more successful struggle against deceit, evil, and ignorance?" [... .]

http://www.gurdjieff.am/in-search/index.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_the_Miraculous

Quoting ...

Why are those who know or possess this knowledge unwilling to let it pass into general circulation for the sake of betterment and success in struggling against deceit, evil and ignorance?

- The Flute of God, by Paul Twitchell, 8th Printing - 1982, Chapter 4 - THE PROMISES OF THE PROPHET, p. 47 (2nd Paragraph)

***

Quoting ...

This is, I think, a question which usually arises in everyone's mind on first acquaintance with the ideas of esotericism.
"There are two answers to that," said G. "In the first place, this knowledge is not concealed; and in the second place, it cannot, from its very nature, become common property. We will consider the second of these statements first. I will prove to you afterwards that knowledge" (he emphasized the word) "is far more accessible to those capable of assimilating it than is usually supposed; and that the whole trouble is that people either do not want it or cannot receive it.
"But first of all another thing must be understood, namely, that knowledge cannot belong to all, cannot even belong to many. Such is the law. You do not understand this because you do not understand that knowledge, like everything else in the world, is material. It is material, and this means that it possesses all the characteristics of materiality. [... .]

http://www.gurdjieff.am/in-search/index.pdf

Quoting ...

Here is something that many of us have overlooked. This knowledge is not concealed from the eyes of the masses. The fact is that the majority of of people do not want knowledge; they refuse their share of it and do not take the rations allotted to them.

Knowledge cannot belong to all, cannot even belong to many. This is the law.

[...]

Now in this world, this universe, knowledge like everything else is limited, because it is material. [... .]

- The Flute of God, by Paul Twitchell, 8th Printing - 1982, Chapter 4 - THE PROMISES OF THE PROPHET, p. 47 (2nd Paragraph)

***

Quoting ...

"The fact is that the enormous majority of people do not want any knowledge whatever, they refuse their share of it and do not even take the ration allotted to them, in the general distribution, for the purpose of life. [... .]"

[...]

"This aspect of the question is clear. The crowd neither wants nor seeks knowledge, and the leaders of the crowd, in their own interests, try to strengthen its fear and dislike of everything new and unknown. The slavery in which mankind lives is based upon this fear. [...]"

[...]

"That is one aspect. The other, as I have already said, consists in the fact that no one is concealing anything, there is no mystery whatever. But the acquisition or transmission of true knowledge demands great labor and great effort both of him who receives and of him who gives. And those who possess this knowledge are doing everything they can to transmit and communicate it to the greatest possible number of people, to facilitate people's approach to it and enable them to prepare themselves to receive the truth. But knowledge cannot be given by force to anyone and, as I have already said, an unprejudiced survey of the average man's life, of what fills his day and of the things he is interested in, will at once show whether it is possible to accuse men who possess knowledge of concealing it, of not wishing to give it to people, or of not wishing to teach people what they know themselves.
"He who wants knowledge must himself make the initial efforts to find the source of knowledge and to approach it, taking advantage of the help and indications which are given to all, but which people, as a rule, do not want to see or recognize. Knowledge cannot come to people without effort on their own part. [... .]"

http://www.gurdjieff.am/in-search/index.pdf

Quoting ...

The truth is that the crowd neither wants nor seeks Truth, and the leaders of the crowd, in their own interests, try to strengthen the mass fear and dislike of everything new and unknown. The slavery in which mankind lives is primarily based upon this fear of the unknown, this resistance to change, even when it is obvious that the new is good.
There is no mystery about Truth, but the acquisition and the transmission of true knowledge demands both great labor and great effort of him who receives.
Those who possess this knowledge are doing everything they can to transmit and communicate it to a striving and deserving number of people to facilitate their approach to it and enable them to prepare themselves to receive the Truth.
Those who want Truth must make the initial effort to find the source of knowledge and to approach it, taking advantage of the help and indications which are given to all, but which people as a rule do not want to see or recognize. Knowledge cannot come to you without effort on your part.

- The Flute of God, by Paul Twitchell, 8th Printing - 1982, Chapter 4 - THE PROMISES OF THE PROPHET, pp. 48-49

*********

Ref# 41391720 Paul Twitchell (The Flute of God) vs. Ouspensky / and Gurdjieff (In Search of the Miraculous)

[sign...@gmail.com]

Etznab,

I think, and have done for some time, that you might be stuck in the past with all this Paul Twitchell round-and-round business.

Recommit yourself to the daily practice of the Spiritual Exercises of ECK. With a fresh intake of Light and Sound into your consciousness you might find the upliftment and spiritual progress that years and years of debating Paul Twitchell haven't provided to date.

May the blessings be.

Rob

[Etznab]

Thanks for the response. It's people like you, Rob, that inspire me to unravel the whole ball of plagiarism, pseudo religion and history yarn woven by Paul Twitchell and Eckankar.

[wernertrp]

maybe eckancer is under fully control of the Illuminati.

[Etznab]

On Monday, September 28, 2015 at 8:24:23 AM UTC-5, sign...@gmail.com wrote:

"[...] Most religions ... have hundreds if not thousands of years to create and bury the truth of their origins. In time, myth circulates as truth, and there is little opportunity to challenge it. This is not the case for Paul Twitchell and Eckankar. [... .]"

[Based on: Confessions of a God Seeker, A Journey to Higher Consciousness, by Ford Johnson, Copyright 2003, p. 110]

I knew about this a long time ago. And as a member of Eckankar there was not a written rule to engage in cover up, or embellishment of truth when asked for it by newcomers. IMHO the past is where a group of people edited the writings of others and at the same time told stories. Stories about an ancient lineage and dictations from Eck Masters; and in a number of places where the truth got edited out.

That is a part of the past as far as I am concerned. A place where truth was eclipsed by "stories" and "yarns". You know, this happened quite frequently over the centuries. Kinpa is keen on mentioning how (in so many words) everybody borrows from everybody and all religions take from previous teachings and traditions. To be more honest though one should remember to mention that much of the world's history and traditions were not passed on accurately and intact. No, there were "middlemen" who took out what they wanted and added other things to suit their own special interests. Judaism incorporated such practices long before Christianity and Islam did. One could argue that the latter adopted much of the same from the former.

What people did to destroy the truth is the past and is lived by those who have no place for accepting the truth that resurfaces today by modern discovery. It was in the past where "the church" burned people for believing the truth and exalted those who spun yarns and told the most fanciful stories! This happened to the extent that truth had to get disguised behind nursery rhymes for children and with this was introduced a whole world of symbology and people making and guessing at what various symbols meant. People became sunk in ignorance because others at the top feared the truth and began to censor it. Truth would only rob them of the power they so desperately craved.

That Paul Twitchell collected and compiled so many things from books and what other people said is not something any member of Eckankar can today deny. Maybe in the past, but not today. I think it's time to live with this, Rob. Live with it in the present and follow it as part of the path to truth.

I think the reason that religions and spiritual groups become unpopular, die out, get reformed or replaced is precisely because THEY ARE LIVING IN THE PAST and bereft of the truth!

Look at any successful religion, or church today. Usually one finds people who know how to fit the past into the present by including more of the truth. And success also means listening to other people who belong to other religions besides Eckankar. IMO Eckankar is not a path that robs from the texts of other religions and New Age writers only to replace them with an Eckankar "brand", or trademark without ever acknowledging the former. No. That is not "my" Eckankar.

[Etznab]

This post was for Wernertrp.