Hello
Nick Vlcek
this conference through Usenet, so now it can be accessed in the Twin Cities
area from a local call Looking forward to the dialog!
Nick
Mysti Easterwood
Hi Nick...
Are you 'Vlcek' as in Suzanna's husband? Lover? Namesharing significant
alternate selfperson? 'Hope so. At one time (though I'm not absolutely
current on this) Suz had one of the sweetest oracular connects in this
timespace sector. Salute her for me, if so.
And welcome.
Myst
Holly Hansen
: I'm loggin on from the GateZone BBS in Bloomington, MN We have picked up
: this conference through Usenet, so now it can be accessed in the Twin Cities
: area from a local call Looking forward to the dialog!
Welcome, Nick, and all who (I hope) will follow from your great BBS! I
envy your closeness to the ECK temple (I live in Orlando, FL), but, truth
tell, I can live without all the cold!
I used BBSes until I (recently) got a Net account & was never lucky
enough to find an ECK conference via that source. Personally, I am glad
for you & all your fellow GateZone BBSers!
Look forward to talking with you!
holly
Nick Vlcek
Hello Myst
Thanks for the welcome Suzanna is now happily Zanna Ford and works for
Eckankar in the seminar department And does indeed speak and write from
time to time
How's things in Texas?
Nick
Kent
Nick and I are latecomers to this conference....is there a FAQ or a history
document that someone could send our way?
Seems like a fair amount of offensive (as in football not personally) and
defensive posts.... is this the normal pattern here? I'd love to compare
some notes on real life spiritual experience adventures...challenges...etc.
GateZone has a frequent gateway to the Net and our own domain. *****************************************
GateZone Online Services (612) 944-2500 Modem/ ke...@gatezone.com
*****************************************
Mysti Easterwood
Although I will readily concede that 'reposts' are the downest and
dirtiest way of communicating, this one might be worth a replay. It
contains the gist of David Lane's gripes with Paulji, and what might pass
for intelligent --and serious-- responses.
Mysti wrote:
Dear Fellow WordRiveners,
I knitted up a lengthy reply to David's post last night, but the
twitching of what one friend calls the 'the afflicted digit' sent it
careening off into the yikes!osphere. It was probably too dang long
anyway, so this will be an attempt to color inside the lines, soz we won't
be here till All Wee Hours Again.
(David Lane) writes:
>Don't Confuse Twitchell's Spiritual Schizophrenia with Spiritual
>Enlightenment:
>
>I think the biggest mistake we make when purviewing Twitchell's
>novelistic creation of Eckankar is the belief that he was somehow
>trying to "enlighten" the West, since most people couldn't "handle"
>the Eastern truths in their encultured format.
David, people could 'handle' those truths --actually, practices-- just
fine if they had access to 'em. But if you were a woman, or blind, or had
bad breath or were left-handed or had sexual relations on your sister's
saint's deathday, or spit over your right shoulder, the chances of getting
the Initiatory goods were pretty well nil. And even though some of this
list is from the 10th C. Buddhist monastery in Pala, such 'criteria' were
(and are) epidemic. Not only does it reduce the candidacy of those who
'merit' spiritual training, but such criteria also do interesting things
to the clarity and generosity of the teachings themselves. This has to do
with the mutuality of effects between the human agent and his/her
practice. S/he changes the practice as much as the practice changes
him/her. Without wide cultural, economic, social and political
differences in the trainees, the practices become hidebound. This is the
situation that Paulji --inadvertantly, and maybe even reluctantly--
encountered and began to correct.
> >Now on the surface I think a Western shabd yoga master would be a
>refreshing change of pace. It would be nice to have a mystic, well
>informed in shabd yoga practice, who reflected the best of those
>teachings.
ECKANKAR is not Shabd yoga. Best I can tell, Paul stumbled across some
uncanny resemblances between traditions that were separated by good-sized
temporal and spatial distances (the distance between, oh say, Damascus and
Allahabad was even greater in the 13th C. than now...), all having
something to do with auditory experience. Somehow he managed to turn up
the algebra that produced anamnesis (a bulky old Platonic term that means
'unforgetting') -- in the auditory register, allowing this sensory channel
to tweak its brethren (the other 'four' ((weeelllll, there are a few more
than four, but we'll let this stand)) senses) to the fact that
Reality was hard by...
>It would be nice to see a western sound current teacher who did not:
>1) charge money; 2) lived a remarkably non-selfish moral life; 3)
>consistently tried to serve people, instead of being served; 4) and
>did not want to be a guru, but was "forced" into the position (by
>the
>preceding master), and who did not make any claims whatsoever about
>his inner attainment.
>
All of the above sounds like Sant Mat, which is fine for Sant Mat. And
you're right...
>But this is not what we find in Twitchell and crew. We do
> not find a Westernized version
>of Sant Mat, with all its merits left intact.
...or its demerits either. But since this is not
alt.religion.santmat, I won't fletch my arrows <-8*
>Instead we find a "money/capital/egoistic" version of shabd yoga
>practice. This is especially disconcerting because in the West,
> [...]
>If genuine gurus don't charge money in the East, where the money
Actually Brahmins DO receive monies for most rites of passage in the
day-to-day world of Hinduism; and the administrators of ashrams and
monasteries charge fees for the retreats or visits during which
the 'instruction' is carried out. But more often as not the neophyte
lives with the teacher, to give him/her about 10 hours a day of labor.
This is why the Chinese are claiming to be 'liberating' Tibetans from the
feudal system of lamas and highlamas who live off the labor of hundreds of
(admittedly quite content) monks.
(July 23: My updated info shows that
actually Tibetan farmers and nomadic herdsmen supported the system of
monasteries... and not always with a song in their hearts.)
>willing to fork over the cash. Why did Twitchell start Eckankar?
>Because he was fairly broke at the time (just ask Gail) and it was
>an opportunity to make more money.
>
>I do not understand why people think that Twitchell was being benign
I agree that Paul was making money with the seminars, books and tapes.
But rather than build a monastery, he bought plane tickets and hotel
ballrooms, going TO the motley crue that constituted the first wave.
I also know that he worked like a stevedore at those things.
Could it be that he was both benign AND making money? I dunno, ask John
Bradshaw, ask Tony Robbins, ask Rev. Schuller. I'm not in any of these
guys fan clubs, but they seem to be reducing suffering and making plenty
of money. It happens.
>
>Twitchell "used" shabd yoga to make money, not to dispense divine
>wisdom for the needy.
It's not Shabd yoga, so he couldn't have 'used' it for anything.
>I think we should raise our standards on supposed gurus, masters,
>and teachers. We may be ordinary, we may be unenlightened, we may be
Oh, I don't know, I'm kinda into lowering them, myself. And masters are
something that one comes across on a need-to-know basis. If you don't
need 'dedarkening' at that particular moment, no amount of light in that
other's body (no matter how exalted their reputation) is going to
communicate itself.
>
>Most of what I hear is simply rationalizations for cosmic
>"smuckness". Now I happen to think Twitchell was a wonderfully
>interesting guy--maybe too much of a liar for his own good--but
>all the same quite intriguing. But that's what he was--a classic
>b.s.ing sort of character; he wasn't enlightened (by his scale or
>others).
See above. And there is also the fact that you cannot, cannot, CANNOT do
the sort of sensory re-queuing that Paul was up to (which is a pretty
straightforward mimetic operation) except from INSIDE the state of
consciousness that one sets out to work with. Try to think about the 60s
in the U.S. Try to remember the Inordinate Amounts of Balderdash that
prevailed at that point (the earlier post included a long list..., but you
are spared this evocation...) in the game. Now, try to imagine
working from INSIDE that state to open it up. Are there risks to this
practice? Massive. Is it worth it? I do not have the first idea...
>Yet, we persist in trying to find a method to his spiritual
>schizophrenia (that is, his predisposition to include widely varying
>spiritual teachings in his group).
David, have you been hanging out with Fred Jameson? He's a po'mo
philosopher at Duke who labels everything 'schizophrenic' that makes him
uncomfortable here in our extremely slippery period of late capitalism.
Jameson could do worse than learn the difference between anarchy and
chaos. Chaos is prelusory to a more complex order, and one of its chief
qualities is inclusiveness. The difference between one (anarchy) and the
other (chaos) has less to do with the perceived than the perceiver. Ahem.
>
>
>We should shave with Occam's Razor daily,
Occam, eh? Actually I regard most binary ('this' OR 'that') logic in the West
as the parsimonious dermatitis left over from trying to shave with this
600 year old blade. Not that you'll find me hanging out with 'Saint'
Thomas either. {-8*
So, thank you for the long reply. Sorry if I rushed through some
things, but you can grill me later.
Happy trails,
M.
Brad Bahr
DL.>refreshing change of pace. It would be nice to have a mystic, well
DL.>informed in shabd yoga practice, who reflected the best of those
DL.>teachings.
ME.ECKANKAR is not Shabd yoga. Best I can tell, Paul stumbled across some
ME.uncanny resemblances between traditions that were separated by good-sized
DL.>
DL.>Twitchell "used" shabd yoga to make money, not to dispense divine
DL.>wisdom for the needy.
ME.It's not Shabd yoga, so he couldn't have 'used' it for anything.
Hi Mysti,
I'll have to disagree on this point of shabd yoga. While you are right
in saying that Eckankar is not shabd yoga, it is still based on it.
Here are some text files I posted several months ago. After reading
David Lane's work and the work of the SCP Journal, I had the library
send away for copies of some of these articles. I read them myself and
know that they are accurate. I have also mailed copies to several here
who have wanted to see them for themselves. Look for the references to
shabda yoga. Twitchell himself say that "Eckankar is based on
Shabda-Yoga, a way out form of yoga".
-----------
The Cliff Hanger
by Paul Twitchell
Physic Observer
Magazine July 1964
The Cliff Hanger may be the vanguard of a new religion called
"Eckankar," a Hindu word meaning union with God. This unorthodox
philosophy took hold with the European intellectuals and in college
circles following the publication of my words abroad...
... My saints are Kabir, 16th century Hindu mystical poet who taught
Shabda Marg, the path of Shabda Yoga. Other saints I follow are the
ancient Sufi avatars Jalal al-din Rumi, Hafi, Shamus-i-Tabiz, Rama, the
Indian savior and Kirpal Singh, of India...
Eckankar, which I formed out of my own experience, is the term used for
the philosophy I have developed for the Cliff Hanger. It is based upon
Shabda-Yoga, a way out form of yoga. The word is the Hindu locution for
the cosmic sound current which is known in you vernacular as the cosmic
river of God.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Cliff Hanger," however, was itself a rewritten and sanitized
version of an article originally entitled "The Square Peg." Twitchell is
even more candid and revealing in the original:
-------------------------------
The Cliff Hanger is a one-man cult. I am the original Cliff Hanger
and its sole disciple...
This zany character is called the vanguard of a new religion, entitled
Eckankar...
...but as I have said, it is a one man cult, with myself as founder,
president and disciple.
--------------------------------
Within the brief span of two years, this "one-man cult," the sum total
of one man's personal experience, was being hailed by many as the
Ancient Science of Soul Travel, the worlds most venerable path to truth.
End of Quote from SCP Journal
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
Orion Magazine
January 1964
"I [ Twitchell ] began my study of bilocation under the tutelage
of Satguru Sudar Singh, in Allahabad, India. Later I switched to Sri
Kirpal Singh of Old Delhi. Both were teaching the Shabda Yoga, tha which
is called the Yoga of the Sound Current. I had to learn to leave my body
at will and return, without effort.
------------------
Peace,
Brad
---
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----
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| CorpSoft BBS [3 Nodes] - (815) 886-9388 28.8 v.fc |
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Holly Hansen
: Nick and I are latecomers to this conference....is there a FAQ or a history
: document that someone could send our way?
: Seems like a fair amount of offensive (as in football not personally) and
: defensive posts.... is this the normal pattern here? I'd love to compare
: some notes on real life spiritual experience adventures...challenges...etc.
Hi Kent (and Nick?)
I had to smile when I read this post. Like you, I am fairly new to this
"conference"...only about two weeks or so. At first, I felt like I was
back in one of my BBS philosphy, new-age or "strange" conferences as I
frequent those places for the lively debates, at least until they start
to flame so much I have to leave for a while!
But, I have found during my brief time here, that some posts that seem
quite bent on discrediting ECK & arguing about everything are not always
as they seem! I have responded to a couple (with Love & - I hope -
humour and good will) and discovered some very sincere seekers behind
words that seem so angry!
That does not mean that these folks will necessarily look into ECKANKAR
seriously, it means that I have met some new people, with points of view
different than mine who like to share! That, in itself pretty well sums
up the ECK for me! New friends, whether they "agree" with me or not, are
a real bonus!
To answer your question regarding the "football action" here, yes, this
does indeed seem to be the over all tone!
That does not mean folks like us can't go merrily about our ways & share
the ECK for fun & pleasure here while the "football players" continue to
do their thing, right???
I hope to hear from you! I'm always on the look out for happy ECK face
in the crowd!
holly
Mysti Easterwood
writes:
>
>ME.ECKANKAR is not Shabd yoga. Best I can tell, Paul stumbled across some
>ME.uncanny resemblances between traditions that were separated by good-sized
>Hi Mysti,
>
>I'll have to disagree on this point of shabd yoga. While you are right
>in saying that Eckankar is not shabd yoga, it is still based on it
Hi Brad, Gatezoners (who seem to be forming a New Clique), Mark, the
Davids, and all other Read and Unread Sentient Beings Herein,
I can understanding how this issue can become pretty confusing, but let
me see if I can convey precisely why it seems to me that ECKANKAR
(under the aegis of Paulji, etc.) is not Shabd Yoga.
First there is the cultural issue. Shabd Yoga is a Sikh practice, from a
religion that was established by Guru Nanak in the Punjab about 500 years
ago -- as a reaction to Brahmanical rule. Please note the latter. Not
because Nanak was purer than the Siddhas or Mahasiddhas around him, but
because this group rejected the ethical foundations of Vedantic philosophy
as it was interpreted by the Brahmanical caste. And they needed a King
Daddy to inspire them to rebellion (ever wonder why Sikhs sport those
nasty looking swords?). Though both aspects of the Big Wave were
recognized by the Vedantic priestcaste, Light was considered the superior
vehicle, Sound was its 'crude' aftereffect. So the Sikhs went for the
'parte maudite' -- the accursed share, Sound, as a way of distinguishing
themselves from their oppressors. Now, Paul was neither raised Sikh nor
did he declare any solidarity with the Sikh religion -- which would mean
INHERITING the entire set of karmic issues that led to its promulgation as
a religion distinct from Vedanta. Paulji was nobody's fool, and I
speculate that once he twigged to the historical rumble under this
apparently religious identity, he hooked a louie on outta there.
Then there is the Yogic issue. Shabd yoga does involve a Kundalinesque
practice of changing sexual energy into---hhhmmmm, how to say this?-- a
visual puissance. Paul, intuiting or knowing or guessing or maybe just
hoping that we would have been through those minor adeptitudes elsewhen,
set up ECKANKAR to *start* the Initiatory training where Shabd Yoga actually
terminates: the 'crown' chakra.
The third observation I want to make is both more to the point, and more
indirect:
At one time I identified myself as a post-structuralist. Now I still use
the vocabulary of that enterprise, but to ends that would probably make
Julia Kristeva and Gayatri Spivaks' hair stand on end. Moreover, I am
completely convinced that I have a perfect right to do so, since I know
that when they get over their cynicism and worldweariness they will agree
with the way in which I have been using it.
See? Paul figured that if he could lift the Sound Current teachings out
of (one of) their precipitating circumstances, the Initiate might be able to
start from a very different rung on the ladder, because s/he wouldn't be
operating with the causal mess of the ForeParents: ("Die, you
tree-climbing, butter-burning worshipper of horse titties..." "Well,
twenty deaths to you, you sack-headed, Sound-sniffing kisser of
outcastes." {Hacking sounds throughout...}). THAT particular rung called
for the aggression of the Serpent Energy passing through various corporeal
expressions** as part of how the Sound Current was being played out as an
historical/cultural influence. Our time calls for a very different
practice because the Sound Current is implemented differently in this
set-up. Same juice (kinda), different juicer.
>Twitchell himself say that "Eckankar is based on
>Shabda-Yoga, a way
>out form of yoga". > >----------- >The Cliff Hanger >by Paul Twitchell
>Physic Observer >Magazine July 1964 >
... and my analysis of image/language is based on post-structuralism, but
it is neither post-structuralism, nor its ancestor 'structuralism.' But
only my readers who actually use the ideas to SEE with can tell the
difference.
Does this make sense?
(So, suddenly I'm thirsty?)
Hugs,
Myst
**Note that I did NOT say 'lower' centers. I don't believe in
'higher/lower' when it comes to the subtle bodies (and ALL of 'em are
subtle).
JimMayes
mys...@actlab.rtf.utexas.edu (Mysti Easterwood) writes:
ME>Hi Brad, Gatezoners (who seem to be forming a New Clique),
OK, is this some Eck sub cult or what? I've heard the term Gatekeeper
but, who are these Gatezoners? One things fersure .....
they ain't no SILENT ones. :-) jim (now in hiding)