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Rebazar Tarzs and plagiarism - What some have said
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Etznab
Feb 27, 2019, 10:14:36 PM2/27/19
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Doug Marman wrote:
"My point is that the problem goes away once we realize that everything Paul wrote were his words. He was writing it. These were not the words of Rebazar or Kirpal. They were his words."
"So, I'm not sure I follow how this has anything to do with Paul witnessing the physical body of Rebazar and speaking with him.
[...]
"I can see that you've missed my point. I am not trying to discuss whether Rebazar is real or not. I am discussing the concern you raised about how Paul could change the name from Kirpal to Rebazar.
"My point was that Paul was the author, not Kirpal or Rebazar. Once we realize that Paul was the actual author, then it doesn't seem strange at all that he would think he could rewrite his own words however he thought best."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/MbF_aTpc3vk/Sj3_gtRMBdQJ
Doug says that "everything Paul wrote were his words".
Were they really all his words? Including the ones he copied word for word and then put quotation marks as if having come from Rebazar Tarzs?
I have another viewpoint. To me, it looks like Paul used a pseudonym because he couldn't quote the actual sources without exposing his literary thefts at the same time.
It seems to me that Doug didn't seem to understand why I wanted to find a real and historical Rebazar Tarzs.
Umm ... Ever hear of the LIVING Eck Master Doug?
"Rebazar Tarzs. [...] He served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."
https://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html
That was a page from the current official Eckankar website. From a book authored by Harold Klemp.
Btw. In his Introduction for Fourth Printing (1985) of The Key to Eckankar, Harold Klemp referenced Rebazar Tarzs. Harold wrote: [...] Rebazar Tarzs says that the individual first has to get "the correct letter of truth" before he can live in the spirit of truth. He tells how this is done. [... .]
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/FgaZ8heORWI/wNdegMNXBAAJ
Did Harold know how much of The Key to Eckankar was plagiarized from other authors and credited to Rebazar Tarzs?
All of these are natural questions that come to mind.
"My point is that the problem goes away once we realize that everything Paul wrote were his words. He was writing it. These were not the words of Rebazar or Kirpal. They were his words."
"So, I'm not sure I follow how this has anything to do with Paul witnessing the physical body of Rebazar and speaking with him.
[...]
"I can see that you've missed my point. I am not trying to discuss whether Rebazar is real or not. I am discussing the concern you raised about how Paul could change the name from Kirpal to Rebazar.
"My point was that Paul was the author, not Kirpal or Rebazar. Once we realize that Paul was the actual author, then it doesn't seem strange at all that he would think he could rewrite his own words however he thought best."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/MbF_aTpc3vk/Sj3_gtRMBdQJ
Doug says that "everything Paul wrote were his words".
Were they really all his words? Including the ones he copied word for word and then put quotation marks as if having come from Rebazar Tarzs?
I have another viewpoint. To me, it looks like Paul used a pseudonym because he couldn't quote the actual sources without exposing his literary thefts at the same time.
It seems to me that Doug didn't seem to understand why I wanted to find a real and historical Rebazar Tarzs.
Umm ... Ever hear of the LIVING Eck Master Doug?
"Rebazar Tarzs. [...] He served as the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."
https://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html
That was a page from the current official Eckankar website. From a book authored by Harold Klemp.
Btw. In his Introduction for Fourth Printing (1985) of The Key to Eckankar, Harold Klemp referenced Rebazar Tarzs. Harold wrote: [...] Rebazar Tarzs says that the individual first has to get "the correct letter of truth" before he can live in the spirit of truth. He tells how this is done. [... .]
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/FgaZ8heORWI/wNdegMNXBAAJ
Did Harold know how much of The Key to Eckankar was plagiarized from other authors and credited to Rebazar Tarzs?
All of these are natural questions that come to mind.
Etznab
Feb 27, 2019, 10:45:06 PM2/27/19
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"And some of those Eck Masters we can find historical records of, and some we can't.
"Rebazar is one that we can't.
"Why is this Paul's problem? It seems to me that this is something bothering you, not Paul, which would make it your problem, not Paul's. Doesn't it?
Doug.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/MbF_aTpc3vk/Sj3_gtRMBdQJ
So aside from Rob and Kinpa, Doug also tries to make this my problem. Rich Smith and others have tried the same kind of spin.
Let's study this. Shall we? Look what (on the same thread) Doug wrote:
"If Paul was describing a Master he had met through spiritual experiences, why is it so important to you to find a 'real' connection with him?"
[...]
"I see the point you are making, but it doesn't fit for me, since Paul was writing about spiritual experiences. It is you (as others before you) who are trying to treat Rebazar as something historical and physical."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/MbF_aTpc3vk/MPn3J4VI5W4J
Something historical and physical? I and others before me are trying to treat Rebazar as something historical and physical?
Someplace there is a copy of The Key to Eckankar on the Net, I believe. Here is part of a highlighted transcription.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/nD2iq5AOBzc/uyHVPiaceDkJ
BUT MORE THAN THAT ...
"Years ago when I returned from England and went to the northwest to live in Seattle, Washington, Rebazar Tarzs spent considerable time with me in his physical body. It was a case of his manifesting suddenly in his body and giving a series of talks on ECKANKAR, which were to be related to the world. [... .]"
The Key to Eckankar, by Paul Twitchell, p. 3, 4th paragraph (Harold Klemp's Intro. was on pp. 1-2), Copyright 1968, Fourth Printing, 1985 (In the 2003 version as well, I believe).
Doug said "... but it doesn't fit for me ... ."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/MbF_aTpc3vk/MPn3J4VI5W4J
That sounds like Doug's problem. Not mine.
Etznab
Mar 19, 2019, 9:28:36 PM3/19/19
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On Wednesday, February 27, 2019 at 9:14:36 PM UTC-6, Etznab wrote:
Has anybody noticed on the official Eckankar website no comments about Rebazar Tarzs involved with Paul's copying and plagiarism?
I think one has to look at the words closely. Not only the ones that are there, but also the ones that aren't there.
Henosis Sage
Mar 20, 2019, 12:08:06 AM3/20/19
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lives in his physical body in the Hindu Kush one day and Darjeeling the next.
Seems to me it is all Marman's problem. There's a few screws loose there. :-)
Etznab
Oct 18, 2019, 2:54:41 PM10/18/19
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