Attis Mythology, Etc.
Etznab
A lot of mythology is based on stories. However,
stories and their details can change over time. The
truth about them seems to depend on looking at a
timeline for each story. Tracing it back to the origin.
I'm going to share select quotes about the "story"
of Attis and comment about how, or in what ways
they impressed me.
Most of the following quotes are about illustrat-
ions I found in The Woman's Encyclopedia of
Myths and Secrets, by Barbara G. Walker (sect-
ion on Attis beginning on p. 77).
p. 78:
"Followers of Attis eventually lost their sacrificial
day to the Christians. Justinian ruled that March 25
would be known as the day of the Annunciation, or
Lady Day. Naturally, the day of the Annunciation
was the day of Jesus's conception, so that he, like
Attis, could be born nine months later at the winter
solstice, as were all gods assimilated to the sun
and called Light of the World.(8)
(8) Ashe, 82
As a follower of Eckankar teachings for 20 plus
years and familiar with a number of the Eckankar
writings I was impressed by associations of solar
phenonema. Here is but one reason why:
"That authority should be placed upon the one
who becomes the saviour is not unusual. In Egypt
the Pharoah of old was both a god and the son of
a god, and Krishna, the beloved god of India, was
one of the countless sun gods. Many men have
become gods and many gods have become men.
But the Mahanta is the living Light, in the tradition
of the ancient sun gods of Asia.
[The Spiritual Notebook, by Paul Ttwitchell (1983
edition), p. 23.]
Another quote from Walker's book that impressed
me was:
p. 78
"The god died and was buried. He descended into
the underworld. On the third day he rose again from
the dead. His worshippers were told: 'The god is saved;
and for you also will come salvation from your trials.'(14)
This day was the Carnival or Hilaria, also known as the
Day of Joy. People danced in the streets and went about
in disguise, indulging in horseplay and casual love affairs.
(15) This was the Sunday; the god arose in glory as the
solar deity of a new season. Christians ever afterward
kept Easter Sunday with carnival processions derived
from the mysteries of Attis. Like Christ, Attis arose
when 'the sun makes the day for the first time longer
than the night.' "(16)
(14) Cumont, A.R.G.R., 59.
(15) Frazer, G.B., 405-7.
(16) Vermaseren, 182
There was something mentioned about the phallis
of Attis being castrated and placed in the cave of a
goddess. Cybele, I think. This sounded different, to
me, compared with the body of Jesus put into a cave
after carrying and being crucified on a cross. A cave,
or tomb, sounded similar. but a phallus sounds much
different (to me) compared with a cross.
What appeared to rise, from my take on the story
(and what was erected) was not a phallus, or cross,
but the Sun.
This next pharagraph from Walker's book was par-
ticularly interesting to me:
p. 78
"Nassenes of the 3rd century A.D. worshipped Attis
as a syncretic mixture of deities. One of their hymns
said, 'Of Attis I will sing, of Rhea's son, not sounding
his praises with rolling drums, nor on the reed, nor with
the roar of Ida's Curetes, but as the Muse of Phoebus
on the lyre I will blend the strains. Euhoi, Euhan, he is
Pan, He is Bacchus, he is the shepherd of the white
constellations.' "(17)
(17) Vermaseren, Maarten J.: Cybele and Attis (1977)
p. 182
Along with solar themes, I was especially curious
about the words Euhoi, & Euhan (Pan, reportedly is
supposed to mean "all"). Along with Bacchus. Take
a look at this reference to Bacchus by Manly p. Hall:
"[....] Describing the temples of the Druids, Charles
Heckethorn, in The Secret Societies of All Ages &
Countries, says: 'Their temples wherein the sacred
fire was preserved were generally situate on eminen-
ces and in dense groves of oak, and assumed various
forms - circular, because a circle was the emblem of
the universe; oval, in allusion to the mundane egg,
from which issued, according to the traditions of many
nations, the universe, or, according to others, our first
parents; serpentine, because a cross is an emblem
of regeneration; or winged, to represent the motion of
the Divine Spirit. *** Their chief deities were reducible
to two - a male and a female, the great father and
mother - Hu and Ceridwen, distinguished by the same
characteristics as belong to Osiris and Isis, Bacchus
and Ceres, or any other supreme god and goddess
representing the two principles of all being.' "
[Based on: The Secret Teachings Of All Ages, by
Manly P. Hall, pp. 47-48 (2003 edition)]
The last section (and paragraph) from Walker's
book on Attis reads:
"Some Christians claimed Jesus's crucifixation
took place on April 1, so the Fool of the April Fool's
Day procession became Christ carrying his cross
and enduring the mockery of the mob. But the
spring Holy Week was not really Christian. Its origin
was a universal Indo-European tradition of extreme
antiquity, probably traceable to the Holi festivals of
India which celebrated the rebirth of spring with joy-
ous orgies." (20)
(20) de Lys, 360.
That was another interesting word (Holi) to me.
Here is a link about Holi festivals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holi
Again, these quotes are probably stories - about
stories, about stories, etc.
The "cave" and "grove" mythology contrasted with
"light" appears to be what some people have equated
with female and male symbols.
The theme of "sacrifice" also appears to enter into
myth. Especially with regard to bonfires.
"The main day, Holi, also known as Dhulheti,
Dhulandi or Dhulendi, is celebrated by people
throwing colored powder and colored water at
each other. Bonfires are lit the day before, also
known as Holika Dahan (death of Holika) or
Chhoti Holi (little Holi). The bonfires are lit in
memory of the miraculous escape that young
Prahlad had when Demoness Holika, sister of
Hiranyakashipu, carried him into the fire. Holika
was burnt but Prahlad, a staunch devotee of
god Vishnu, escaped without any injuries due
to his unshakable devotion. Holika Dahan is re-
erred to as Kama Dahanam in Andhra Pradesh."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holi
It's only like scratching the surface for Attis
mythology, but this would be my contribution
to the subject for now.
I hope people can criticize these quotes and
the commentary I gave. Crucify it with the literal
truth, if you will.
Etznab
Etznab
Here is an interesting aside - to show how the
recording of stories might change over time.
That quote I gave from Manly P. Hall's book -
the one that quoted Charles Heckethorn - has
a different illustration here:
"Their temples wherein the sacred fire was preserved
were generally situate on eminences and in dense
groves of oak, and assumed various forms--circular,
because a circle was the emblem of the universe; oval,
in allusion to the mundane egg, from which issued, acc-
ording to the traditions of many nations, the universe,
or, according to others, our first parents; serpentine,
because a serpent was the symbol of Hu, the Druidic
Osiris; cruciform, because a cross is an emblem of
regeneration; or winged, to represent the motion of
the Divine Spirit. * * * Their chief deities were reducible
to two--a male and a female, the great father and mother
--Hu and Ceridwen, distinguished by the same character-
istics as belong to Osiris and Isis, Bacchus and Ceres,
or any other supreme god and goddess representing the
two principles of all Being."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta04.htm
I used to have this quote (this version of it) on my
website until I looked at my copy of Manly P. Hall's
book (2003 version, mind you). I replaced it with the
2003 book verson (in which Hu was not associated
with a serpent symbol).
Which the oldest original quote? I am not sure.
My guess is the sacred-texts author got it wrong. I
don't know. Here, in the sacred-texts version, the
symbol of regeneration is not the serpent, but the
cross! I find that curious.
Etznab
Etznab
Though this thread started out with Attis mythology,
I appear to be gravitating toward the "Etc." Primarily,
the "Creation" and Tau Cross symbol.
I like "some of" Col. James Churchward's research
on account of the alleged antiquity of his symbols.
Churchward gives a symbol that looks like a capital
letter T.
Fig. 15. The Tau, symbol of Resurrection and Emersion.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/ssm/ssm07.htm
That page of his work (I also have the book) talks about
creation according to ancient sources. Including Oriental
Naacal writing. Some of the "language used" for his story
of creation is similar to that used by Paul Twitchell in the
Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad (I have that book, too).
Churchward gives a larger illustration for the Tau here [p.
130]:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/ssm/ssm08.htm
A little farther down the page are additional illustrations
of the "Tau" symbol. Including this one:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/ssm/img/13200.jpg
Personally, I am not in exact agreement with all inter-
pretations given by Churchward for various words and
symbols.
The Hebrew letter T is spelled "tav" and it reportedly was
the last letter in the Hebrew (and Greek?) alphabet. I find
that significant.
Both Hebrew and Greek have letters T & Th. Some of the
reported ancient symbols were an X and an X inside a circle,
I believe. Here is a quote about TH (Theta):
"According to Porphyry of Tyros, the Egyptians used an X
within a circle as a symbol of the soul; having a value of nine,
it was used as a symbol for Ennead. Johannes Lydus says
that the Egyptians used a symbol for Kosmos in the form of
theta, with a fiery circle representing the world, and a snake
spanning the middle representing Agathos Daimon (literally:
good spirit)."
*Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theta - [T.D. 05/17/08]
This is what I compiled for Tav:
Tav [T] - "Glyphs believed to represent Tav include: a cross
or X-like shape; a capital T-like shape. Reported meanings
for Tav include: cross; mark, sign, symbol; phallus; synthesis;
the 22nd letter [7th Double] in the Hebrew alphabet; number
400; the 32nd ['God saw all that He had made'] of 32 paths,
or states of consciousness (Hebrew); last letter in the old
Hebrew alphabet. Associated spellings/words: Tau ['last letter
in the old Greek alphabet'] (Greek)."
and Tau:
Tau [T] - "Nineteenth letter in the Greek alphabet. Capital
and small forms resemble the English letter T shape, only
differing in size. Reported meanings for Tau include: micro-
cosm; lunar aspects of the human being; the older 20th
[last] letter; number 300."
I'm not giving these references to make statements,
as if I know what they all mean. I'm giving them because
they help to illustrate a particular path of research. The
one I am now looking at and contemplating.
The "Tau" symbol led me to a remembrance of a line
from Genesis: "formless and void", or tohu bohu. From
there, I naturally gravitated here (page search Kali Ma):
It's a very long quote on that page for Kali Ma. One I
don't want to type out a second time. However, it gives
an interesting slant to Creation and Trinity.
I don't necessarily believe every part of the story, but
some parts were very interesting to me. I suspect most
people - who read only "demonized" definitions for Kali -
would be quite surprised to learn what that symbol was
(and is) to natives of India.
Etznab
Number Harmonics
"Etznab" <etz...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:49833f38-bfef-4fdd...@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> A lot of mythology is based on stories. However,
> stories and their details can change over time. The
> truth about them seems to depend on looking at a
> timeline for each story. Tracing it back to the origin.
>
> I'm going to share select quotes about the "story"
> of Attis and comment about how, or in what ways
> they impressed me.
>
> I found in The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths &
> Secrets, by Barbara G. Walker (a section on Attis
All seems about right to me, Rich
Essentially Christianity has almost no days of celebrations that were not
grafted onto pre-existing feast days, etc.
If you look at the dogmas of the Catholic Church, you won't find a single
one related directly to what Christ said.
Attis, Mythra, and surprisingly Apollonius of Tyana all contributed in their
own ways to the formation of the Christian doctrines.
Fascinaing stuff chasing down the lineage of belief.
Of Note, Paul lists Dionisus (Bacchus) as an Eck Master. I have long been
curious about that one. Also it seems to me that Yauble Sacabi is really who
we commonly now as Orpheus (Orphic Mysteries)
Ciao
Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Etznab
Michael,
I am not sure where that one was mentioned, but
I, too, am curious about the mythology.
Don't know much about the Dionysos story, and I
haven't researched it much. I do recall a story in the
November 1995 issue of Parabola magazine. In that
issue the subject was Eros. The article was called
Dionysos: The Masks of Madness, by Robert Luyster.
From what I remember about the story, there were
associations of both male and female with Dionysus.
As if the character (mythology, whatever) were both.
Frankly though, I have to admit ignorance for the
Dionysus myth, as far as my own knowledge goes.
*************************************************************
No time to research it now. I'm too busy looking at
space weather for August 2002. The month prior to a
CIA interrogation methods briefing. The one briefing
that Nancy Pelosi attended. This subject of torture is
quite the buzz on U.S. News stations recently and so
I'm looking at August and September 2002.
August 1st was the date of the Bybee memo and in
the same month Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded at
least 83 times. I'd like to know what days it happened
on. Especially when it began.
There was a huge sunspot that same month.
http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?month=08&day=24&year=2002&view=view
Some people believe it was shaped like a heart. It's #
was 69.
Etznab
Number Harmonics
Michael,
*************************************************************
http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?month=08&day=24&year=2002&view=view
Etznab
..............
I am not sure when we will get a correlation happening between sunspots and
present day occurrences, but if you go back to early Zoroastrian teachings,
they talk of visions that Jung later confirmed were related to sun spot
activity.
At the moment we are in a lull, almost no activity, and it seems to me that
this is a highly significant time in the history of the planet.
In 2004 and 2008 we came to a virtual Zero Point with the Chandler Wobble.
Not sure how the two connect, but years ago I was told by a guy who studied
the Mayan Calanders that this was the significant event for 2012 ... Nil
Precesional Wobble on the Earth Axis.
Measurements are here:
http://hpiers.obspm.fr/iers/eop/eopc04_05/eopc04_IAU2000.62-now
Chandler wobble is recorded here:
http://hpiers.obspm.fr/eop-pc/
No idea what it all means, but watching with interest
Michael
Kinpa
>
> *************************************************************
>
> No time to research it now. I'm too busy looking at
> space weather for August 2002. The month prior to a
> CIA interrogation methods briefing. The one briefing
> that Nancy Pelosi attended. This subject of torture is
> quite the buzz on U.S. News stations recently and so
> I'm looking at August and September 2002.
> August 1st was the date of the Bybee memo and in
> the same month Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded at
> least 83 times. I'd like to know what days it happened
> on. Especially when it began.
> There was a huge sunspot that same month.
>
> http://spaceweather.com/archive.php?month=08&day=24&year=2002&view=view
>
> Some people believe it was shaped like a heart. It's #
> was 69.
>
> Etznab
>
> ..............
>
> I am not sure when we will get a correlation happening between sunspots and
> present day occurrences, but if you go back to early Zoroastrian teachings,
> they talk of visions that Jung later confirmed were related to sun spot
> activity.
>
> At the moment we are in a lull, almost no activity, and it seems to me that
> this is a highly significant time in the history of the planet.
>
> In 2004 and 2008 we came to a virtual Zero Point with the Chandler Wobble.
>
> read more »
Dionysus was the greek god of wine, ritual madness and ecstasy, and
also has the job of presiding over communications between the living
and the dead...not sure which book mentions him, but i found him in an
old Eckankar dictionary 5th prining (1983) which says " a Greek
Master who was taught by the Adepts of ECKANKAR" so it doesn't
actually specify that he was an ECK master, just that he was a Master
and was taught by ECK Masters...so, basically, not all that much more
info on what the story might be lol...