COMA
Sharo...@my-deja.com
I would appreciate your re-posting the post you claim Steve R.
made concerning his daughter's car accident.
Please post it with dates & subjects from Deja, so that it can
be confirmed.
Otherwise, well...I will assume that you are lying. I've never
seen you without a mirror in front of you. Don't you get
a bit sick?
No...I guess not...you only see what you want to see.
Sharon
--
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
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Diamond star
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
Hawk
get you?
luv, Hawk
>
> No...I guess not...you only see what you want to see.
>
> Sharon
>
> --
> http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
>
> -------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
> Usenet for the Web
>
--
Hu-for-U
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
davidbarnes
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Sharon,and if you only see lies,deceit,abuse,and "scary" people out to
> get you?
>
> luv, Hawk
If she were an HI many people here would say you are being judgemetal.
Since she is not, they will either ignore or belittle my post. There
exists a double standard that allows some people here on a.r.e. to
justify different standards of treatment.
Hawk
pretty much treated like royality one day and a scoudrel the next.It is
just a matter of time and mood,circumstance and temporary point of view
molded by daily circumstance and what we are aware of or not that day.
There are cycles that seem to intensify around seminar time,and if we
take a short view during a month or two there may seem to be a specific
standard,but wait around long enough and it will flip and seem like the
standard isn't as evident as it was last month.What changed?Was it
A.R.E.,the person we thought we knew?An image of Eckankar that doesn't
seem to apply anymore because of an inner understanding that occurred
in the meantime?As long as some flexibilty and random inquiry is
allowed there is a chance for love and wisdom to keep expanding into a
new world,but if some image gets stuck within our world then we are
likely to remain combative because it is holding us back from our
potential,and this is the true deceit and lie....when we hold ourselves
back from an expanding universe in favor of a solid point of view.
luv, Hawk
luv, Hawk
In article <8cg3rj$htm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
--
Hu-for-U
davidbarnes
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure about a double standard.It seems to me that everyone is
> pretty much treated like royality one day and a scoudrel the next.
Great point.
It is
> just a matter of time and mood,circumstance and temporary point of
view
> molded by daily circumstance and what we are aware of or not that day.
> There are cycles that seem to intensify around seminar time,and if we
> take a short view during a month or two there may seem to be a
specific
> standard,but wait around long enough and it will flip and seem like
the
> standard isn't as evident as it was last month.What changed?Was it
> A.R.E.,the person we thought we knew?An image of Eckankar that doesn't
> seem to apply anymore because of an inner understanding that occurred
> in the meantime?
As long as some flexibilty and random inquiry is
> allowed there is a chance for love and wisdom to keep expanding into a
> new world,
Perhaps that is why some do not want people to have the freedom with
accountability to dialogue on any topic they want.
but if some image gets stuck within our world then we are
> likely to remain combative because it is holding us back from our
> potential,and this is the true deceit and lie....when we hold
ourselves
> back from an expanding universe in favor of a solid point of view.
Understood. Good post. Thank you.
Desdenova
>
> davidbarnes <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote ...
> :
> : Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> : > Sharon,and if you only see lies,deceit,abuse,and "scary" people out to
> : > get you?
> : >
> : > luv, Hawk
> :
> : If she were an HI many people here would say you are being judgemetal.
> : Since she is not, they will either ignore or belittle my post. There
> : exists a double standard that allows some people here on a.r.e. to
> : justify different standards of treatment.
>
> actions do have consequences and do affect how others feel about us and
> behave towards us. Sharon has been so abusive here so many times to
> me and to people that I care about, I'd honestly find it difficult to accept
> anything she said at face value. No Eckist (not one) has ever said the
> kinds of abusive things she has and few have used the kind of foul
> language that she's used here. In fact I can think of only two other people
> who have exceeded her in nastiness and that's "Zuma" (aka Alfie, aka
> CB etc) and "Revealer".
I keep trying, Ken, but I guess I just can't bring myself
to swear the way I used to... Hrmmm... Wonder what's up
with that? <G>
~Des
Michael Wallace
Windy <saxm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:38EB1E...@bellsouth.net...
> Diamond star wrote:
> >
> > SHUT UP Sharon.
>
> LOL!
>
Concise wisdom is sooo hard to find, that I treasure this one from Rose <G>
You mean, of course, that you are wishing her well in her attempt to become
one of the Silent Ones <G>
love
Michael
>
SantimVah
> Yes, Joey, do sharon's bidding for her. And while you are at it, take
> the trash out and walk the dog, otherwise she won't like you, and you
> know you couldn't live without that conditional love. Oh and tell her
> where the nuns live and what order they are from so she can bug them
> also.
>
Was that the Thai, Tibeten or Taiwanese Buddhist Nuns you are referring to
Windy?
<G>
Santimvah
Hawk
a rise out of someone and pass some time.I'm not going to spend 20
minutes replying,if all I might get in response is,"yeah,so?"
I poke fun and try to work around these people for the rare opportunity
to address many different aspects of Eckankar that wouldn't be
approached normally on a chat list or official organizational channels.
A.R.E. does offer an opportunity amidst the nonsense for these fringe
aspects to be looked at more closely.
luv, Hawk
> Perhaps that is why some do not want people to have the freedom with
> accountability to dialogue on any topic they want.
>
> but if some image gets stuck within our world then we are
> > likely to remain combative because it is holding us back from our
> > potential,and this is the true deceit and lie....when we hold
> ourselves
> > back from an expanding universe in favor of a solid point of view.
>
> Understood. Good post. Thank you.
>
> >
> > In article <8cg3rj$htm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > davidbarnes <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote:
> > > In article <8cfk3k$us6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > > Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > Sharon,and if you only see lies,deceit,abuse,and "scary" people
> out
> > to
> > > > get you?
> > > >
> > > > luv, Hawk
> > >
> > > If she were an HI many people here would say you are being
> judgemetal.
> > > Since she is not, they will either ignore or belittle my post.
There
> > > exists a double standard that allows some people here on a.r.e. to
> > > justify different standards of treatment.
> > >
Ken
davidbarnes <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote ...
:
: Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
: > Sharon,and if you only see lies,deceit,abuse,and "scary" people out to
: > get you?
: >
: > luv, Hawk
:
: If she were an HI many people here would say you are being judgemetal.
: Since she is not, they will either ignore or belittle my post. There
: exists a double standard that allows some people here on a.r.e. to
: justify different standards of treatment.
Dave, as much as I'd like to live in the present and leave the past behind,
actions do have consequences and do affect how others feel about us and
behave towards us. Sharon has been so abusive here so many times to
me and to people that I care about, I'd honestly find it difficult to accept
anything she said at face value. No Eckist (not one) has ever said the
kinds of abusive things she has and few have used the kind of foul
language that she's used here. In fact I can think of only two other people
who have exceeded her in nastiness and that's "Zuma" (aka Alfie, aka
CB etc) and "Revealer".
Ken
SantimVah
You are absolutely correct and accurate in what you say here.
Thanks for pointing it out.
With Love
SantimVah
SantimVah
>
> As long as some flexibilty and random inquiry is
> > allowed there is a chance for love and wisdom to keep expanding into a
> > new world,
>
> Perhaps that is why some do not want people to have the freedom with
> accountability to dialogue on any topic they want.
>
Excuse me, but I'm not real sure (actually don't have a clue <g>) what you
mean here.
Would you mind explaining this in another way?
Thanks
SantimVah
>
> Understood. Good post. Thank you.
>
I agree too.
>
SantimVah
I've missed the post you appear to be referring to here.
Would you mind explaining this "yeah so?"
Thanks
SantimVah
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8cgnj3$8bk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Some people are here for entertainment and mischeiviousness.Just to get
> a rise out of someone and pass some time.I'm not going to spend 20
> minutes replying,if all I might get in response is,"yeah,so?"
> I poke fun and try to work around these people for the rare opportunity
> to address many different aspects of Eckankar that wouldn't be
> approached normally on a chat list or official organizational channels.
> A.R.E. does offer an opportunity amidst the nonsense for these fringe
> aspects to be looked at more closely.
>
> luv, Hawk
>
>
>
> > Perhaps that is why some do not want people to have the freedom with
> > accountability to dialogue on any topic they want.
> >
> > but if some image gets stuck within our world then we are
> > > likely to remain combative because it is holding us back from our
> > > potential,and this is the true deceit and lie....when we hold
> > ourselves
> > > back from an expanding universe in favor of a solid point of view.
> >
> > Understood. Good post. Thank you.
> >
> > >
> > > In article <8cg3rj$htm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > > davidbarnes <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <8cfk3k$us6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > > > Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > > > Sharon,and if you only see lies,deceit,abuse,and "scary" people
> > out
> > > to
> > > > > get you?
> > > > >
> > > > > luv, Hawk
> > > >
> > > > If she were an HI many people here would say you are being
> > judgemetal.
> > > > Since she is not, they will either ignore or belittle my post.
> There
> > > > exists a double standard that allows some people here on a.r.e. to
> > > > justify different standards of treatment.
> > > >
Hawk
reply who was just trying to be provacative.
luv, Hawk
In article <95499424...@brs.ihug.com.au>,
SantimVah
Sheesh Hawk, you have to "go to making these things up" in order to have
someone to respond to who is being provocative?
Lucky you my friend, lucky you!
Mind you, if it works for you, GO FOR IT! <VBG>
With love
SantimVah
PS what's your secret? (as sv dodges "INCOMING!")
me thinks i'm spending way too much time here, and need to get back to the
real world <G>
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ch5ej$n20$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Hawk
for many years,now.If you find it,please show me the way there.<VBG>
I keep coming in contact with my world,and it is the world of
the "unreal".I'm not making this stuff up.It's "real"Really real.Real
really real. I imagine.<VBG>
luv, Hawk
>
> me thinks i'm spending way too much time here, and need to get back
to the
> real world <G>
>
> Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8ch5ej$n20$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Santimvah,I was just making up a possible example of how someone
might
> > reply who was just trying to be provacative.
> >
> > luv, Hawk
> >
> >
>
>
--
SantimVah
That's the real thing <G>
Or perhaps pick up a rod & real and try fishing, and imagine all them fishes
that "got away".
yep, I've lost it for sure <VBG>
with love
SantimVah
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8chh0s$3pk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Ken
Desdenova <gun...@united.net> wrote ...
:
: I keep trying, Ken, but I guess I just can't bring myself
: to swear the way I used to... Hrmmm... Wonder what's up
: with that? <G>
Me to. Maybe we're just getting softer in our old age??? <g>
Ken
davidbarnes
> : > Sharon,and if you only see lies,deceit,abuse,and "scary" people
out to
> : > get you?
> : >
> : > luv, Hawk
> :
> : If she were an HI many people here would say you are being
judgemetal.
> : Since she is not, they will either ignore or belittle my post. There
> : exists a double standard that allows some people here on a.r.e. to
> : justify different standards of treatment.
>
behind,
> actions do have consequences and do affect how others feel about us
and
> behave towards us. Sharon has been so abusive here so many times to
> me and to people that I care about, I'd honestly find it difficult to
accept
> anything she said at face value. No Eckist (not one) has ever said
the
> kinds of abusive things she has and few have used the kind of foul
> language that she's used here. In fact I can think of only two other
people
> who have exceeded her in nastiness and that's "Zuma" (aka Alfie, aka
> CB etc) and "Revealer".
>
> Ken
I know what you are saying and understand. It hurt me to see some of
the things that were said about you by those two and I may have even
wrote you privately to say so. (I'm not sure) However, while you and I
do not expect a lot from some people, I do expect a lot from Hawk. Here
is a guy who has publicly stated that he received the first initiation
from Sri Paul in the early sixties. (Yes, before 1965!) Is it wrong for
me to somehow ask more from him than the type of post he made earlier
to Sharon? Or to wonder what we will be like when we have been doing
the spiritual exercises for almost 40 years? Don't get me wrong, I have
the utmost respect for Hawk. I really do. He's a really great guy and
most of what he says has a lot of wisdom in it (when given my ability
to understand what he is saying) and he really has a great sense of
humor which to me is the most important thing any of us can have.
Desdenova
LOL! Could be... ;-)
Hawk
computer game called "Bass Fishing" and one called "Big Game Hunting"
I will hone my skills and become "the hunter".I will drink of this coca
cola of which you speak until all illusion is a pale silk cloth that
holds no mystery.I will take this silk cloth and wrap it around
me,nay,embrace it to my heart!This I will do Master SantimVah.
Your words of wisdom will not fall upon parched land,but will flow unto
the river of life in my hands to plant seeds of a new beginning,a new
world,a new revelation.<VBG>
luv, Hawk
In article <95502491...@brs.ihug.com.au>,
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
>
--
Hu-for-U
Anne
wrote:
>Ah,so,Master SantimVah,I see clearly,now.I will buy the virtual
>computer game called "Bass Fishing" and one called "Big Game
Hunting"
>I will hone my skills and become "the hunter".I will drink of
this coca
>cola of which you speak until all illusion is a pale silk cloth
that
>holds no mystery.I will take this silk cloth and wrap it around
>me,nay,embrace it to my heart!This I will do Master SantimVah.
>Your words of wisdom will not fall upon parched land,but will
flow unto
>the river of life in my hands to plant seeds of a new
beginning,a new
>world,a new revelation.<VBG>
>
> luv, Hawk
Ooops, sorry Hawk. I didn't mean to bump into you. I was
laughing so hard, I couldn't see where I was going....
Love,
Beep, beep................
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Hawk
Sharon nor was I intending to falsify an image of her.
I thought I did a fairly adequate job of pointing out the obvious which
is that she sees lies,deceit,abuse,and people in Eckankar who have some
personal vendeta against her.
She makes accusations against anyone fairly evenly across the board.
In my post earlier to you I said what I believed was the true deceit
and lie when we settle for a point of view at the expense of spiritual
inquiry which by nature is radomly applied in the moment.
While it is true that I received the 1st intiation in 1961,do you know
how long it took me to receive the second intiation?
It took 23 years.I am presntly not an H.I.In other words because of my
particular karmic unfoldment which has been one of the outer coming
into compliance with the inner,it has taken an unusally long tome to
come into balance.
But irregardless,it is natural to expect more from some people than
others,but this can also present a dilema because when we focus on
behavior rather then what we can establish as truth for ourselves which
is randomly accessed,we run the risk of getting stuck within ethical
boundaries that never quite provide enough reinforcement when times get
tough and we have to make those same decisions for ourselves.Then we
are likely to be some else's source of disappointment and so on.
luv, Hawk
>
> I know what you are saying and understand. It hurt me to see some of
> the things that were said about you by those two and I may have even
> wrote you privately to say so. (I'm not sure) However, while you and I
> do not expect a lot from some people, I do expect a lot from Hawk.
Here
> is a guy who has publicly stated that he received the first initiation
> from Sri Paul in the early sixties. (Yes, before 1965!) Is it wrong
for
> me to somehow ask more from him than the type of post he made earlier
> to Sharon? Or to wonder what we will be like when we have been doing
> the spiritual exercises for almost 40 years? Don't get me wrong, I
have
> the utmost respect for Hawk. I really do. He's a really great guy and
> most of what he says has a lot of wisdom in it (when given my ability
> to understand what he is saying) and he really has a great sense of
> humor which to me is the most important thing any of us can have.
>
davidbarnes
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Hi,David,it didn't seem to me that I said anything so judgemental with
> Sharon nor was I intending to falsify an image of her.
What you said about Sharon in your post was true. Yet, I was really
addressing another issue which is how if someone had said exactly what
you had said to her and assuming it was true based on your prior
statement, there would have been many here who would have still said
judgemental and other things in your defense. I have been told that
many times lately when I post a Zoa when a an HI clearly doesn't follow
them. Are the accusations of me being judgemental true? of course but I
had a broader private reason for doing what I did. My point however, is
that it is not the truth of a situation that dictates many responses
but a misguided sense of loyalty irregardless of the truth of a
situation. Where is the consistency so to speak. If it is wrong for me
to judge an HI, is it not also wrong for that HI to judge others? And
yet when the HI judges others, so many people post in to say, in
effect, HOORAY! (almost like a mob mentatity) If an uninitated person
uses profanity and degrades others and our religion is it a good
response to use the same strategy back or shouldn't we just ignore it
or respond with detachment? Obviously the latter. I think you know what
I am saying, even if I do not convey it that well.
> I thought I did a fairly adequate job of pointing out the obvious
which
> is that she sees lies,deceit,abuse,and people in Eckankar who have
some
> personal vendeta against her.
I agree.
> She makes accusations against anyone fairly evenly across the board.
Yes.
> In my post earlier to you I said what I believed was the true deceit
> and lie when we settle for a point of view at the expense of spiritual
> inquiry which by nature is radomly applied in the moment.
Exactly. Which is why I am often confused as to why a group of real
truth seekers, Eckists here, don't respond to truth, but to some sort
of group mentality or loyality which does not permit real truth to be
inquired about in the first place.
> While it is true that I received the 1st intiation in 1961
Awesome!
,do you know
> how long it took me to receive the second intiation?
> It took 23 years.
brutal!!! <seriously>
I am presntly not an H.I.In other words because of my
> particular karmic unfoldment which has been one of the outer coming
> into compliance with the inner,it has taken an unusally long tome to
> come into balance.
Sri Harold talks about that. He gives that as one reason that often
when one receives a new initiation things on the outer explode!!! so to
speak. <g>
> But irregardless,it is natural to expect more from some people than
> others,but this can also present a dilema because when we focus on
> behavior rather then what we can establish as truth for ourselves
which
> is randomly accessed,we run the risk of getting stuck within ethical
> boundaries that never quite provide enough reinforcement when times
get
> tough and we have to make those same decisions for ourselves.
Isn't that just another thing that is so great about Eck, namely,
unlike my birth religion of Judaism for example with a written code of
laws of over 600 or so and our religion allows "Truth for ourselves" as
taught in the inner? We learn the real truth through being more and
more conscious of the cause and effect of our actions and thoughts.
Then we
> are likely to be some else's source of disappointment and so on.
True. Thanks!
Desdenova
>
> SantimVah <Sant...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:95503791...@brs.ihug.com.au...
> > Go forth and multiply my son!
>
> But no sex in the Church... OK?
Why not??? Churches are some of the greatest places
for it! Graveyards too. Elevators, rooftops, semi-
private gardens, hay lofts, desert bluffs under a
crescent moon... Seriously though: Church is the
GREATEST! LOL
~Des
Windy
>
> I believe what you may be addressing is accurate about cliques that
> form with people of like mentality or perssonality.Does thia
> necessarily mean "loyality"?Loyality could be likened to an agreement.
> It could be an agreement about how Eckankar should be presented
> publicly.The organization while based on an inner teaching which
> upholds the sanctity of the individual universe still says no to people.
> It's a loosely held agreement that changes over time and individuals
> make a loyal committment within it to foster a program that will work
> for most people most of the time.
> Honesty,however,is a personal code of conduct based on a
> different "scale" if you will.
> Is someone who forms a bond with like minded people loyal or dishonest?
> One paricular thing I noticed with the responses to Nathan that a group
> mentality in response was also evident with like minded people.A very
> similar dynamic was involved with people jumping on a bandwagon.
> Is this also an example of misplaced loyality or is it an example of
> like minded people who formed a loosely held agreement?
> Are you loyal or dishonest?
> I know it's rather like asking someone...Have you stopped beating your
> wife?There's no good answer; which is my point.
> Whenever Eckists act as a group there is a faster accumulation of
> energy which starts a snowball effect.It is similar to building up
> momentum.The individual momentum of spiritual growth is attached
> between people and it is a larger cause with a larger effect.
> This can lead to faster growth in a local area or a degenerative effect
> with actually less people getting involved.
> Very similar online dynamic which is why groups of people(like Eckists)
> form bonds of loosely held agreement to advance the Eck flow.
> When 2 groups of loosely held agreement collide the flow is dispersed
> and must rebuild momentum.It can lead to a greater flow or a lesser
> flow. eventually.It can go either way.
>
> luv, Hawk
WOW! I thought shit just happened.
SantimVah
All is as it should be, you have done well.
Master SantimVah
ROFLOL !!!!
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8cibii$qr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Ah,so,Master SantimVah,I see clearly,now.I will buy the virtual
> computer game called "Bass Fishing" and one called "Big Game Hunting"
> I will hone my skills and become "the hunter".I will drink of this coca
> cola of which you speak until all illusion is a pale silk cloth that
> holds no mystery.I will take this silk cloth and wrap it around
> me,nay,embrace it to my heart!This I will do Master SantimVah.
> Your words of wisdom will not fall upon parched land,but will flow unto
> the river of life in my hands to plant seeds of a new beginning,a new
> world,a new revelation.<VBG>
>
> luv, Hawk
>
>
>
Hawk
luv, Hawk
> Exactly. Which is why I am often confused as to why a group of real
Michael Wallace
But no sex in the Church... OK?
Love
M
SantimVah
Thanks for this a fine piece of work. For me it shows again the "reality" of
so many levels of activity occuring similtaneously in the same moment, many
issues at stake or being resolved, and those participants within it, not one
of them really being able to see all the goings on at the same time, and
usually never. Although in places like here, we usually get the sense that
things are somewhat more intense from time to time.
My feelings about this? When everyone is mature enough, shall we say wise
enough, to restrict their "activity" in the whirlpool to their own state
discussing issues directly related to them in the here & now, then things
may not need to become so intense or create conflicts and ruptures between
individuals. I personally find a state of humility as being preferrable to
that of a fine purveyor of Eck truths trying to sell my wares up and down
the highway to strange feral animals who really aren't interested anyway.
With Love
SantimVah
PS And gee thanks windy, I just stepped in it. How about being more careful
next time. You know the pen is mightier than the sword. Phew it sticks and I
can't afford anew pair of shoes........woe is me
Windy <saxm...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:38ED54...@bellsouth.net...
Hawk
personal experience.I stray into abstraction more than I would like,but
I find that inner communication is a form of abstraction and poetic
lyric and trying to get it out coherently without babbling is a special
talent.My hat is off to Doug Marmon and like people who have developed
their talent so specifically.
luv, Hawk
In article <95508375...@brs.ihug.com.au>,
--
Hawk
Friday.It has a screen for privacy.But remember some people are here
for other reasons so please be couteous and keep the noise down.
Bishop FuFu
> Why not??? Churches are some of the greatest places
> for it! Graveyards too. Elevators, rooftops, semi-
> private gardens, hay lofts, desert bluffs under a
> crescent moon... Seriously though: Church is the
> GREATEST! LOL
>
> ~Des
>
--
Desdenova
ROFL!!!
davidbarnes
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I believe what you may be addressing is accurate about cliques that
> form with people of like mentality or perssonality.Does thia
> necessarily mean "loyality"?
Within a clique there is a measure of loyalty, but it does not always
necessarily mean total loyalty, no.
Loyality could be likened to an agreement.
> It could be an agreement about how Eckankar should be presented
> publicly.
Yes, it could be that sort of agreement <G>
The organization while based on an inner teaching which
> upholds the sanctity of the individual universe still says no to
people.
> It's a loosely held agreement that changes over time and individuals
> make a loyal committment within it to foster a program that will work
> for most people most of the time.
They/we do the best we can within the limitations that exist here.
> Honesty,however,is a personal code of conduct based on a
> different "scale" if you will.
> Is someone who forms a bond with like minded people loyal or
dishonest?
Depends on the situation here. Using your original post in response to
the usual Sharon post, many people here most likely agreed with your
response. Myself included. Yet, my point was that if the situations
were reversed, Sharon the HI or Eck Initiate and you responding in the
same way but you now are labeled detractor, many would have said you
were judgemental. This would be an example of loyalty that plays a role
in people being intellectually dishonest imo. Either judging is a
frowned upon behavior or not, but it is not usually based on the truth
in any given situation but by the players involved doing the judging
and being judged. (I'm getting a headache <g> thank goodness Eck is a
path of the heart and not just pure intellectualism <G>)
> One paricular thing I noticed with the responses to Nathan that a
group
> mentality in response was also evident with like minded people.A very
> similar dynamic was involved with people jumping on a bandwagon.
> Is this also an example of misplaced loyality or is it an example of
> like minded people who formed a loosely held agreement?
Depends on individual circumstance. Those that express or choose not to
express an opinion based on their take on a situation based on the
facts are being honest, those that express or choose not to express an
opinion based just on the people involved only regardless of the facts
are being dishonest. This creates the deprivation for true spiritual
inquiry that you spoke of earlier imo. And obviously, given the format,
or an outer writing exercise like a newsgroup it is at best a mental
plane phenomena.
> Are you loyal or dishonest?
I try to just be honest. If loyalty requires dishonesty or a dishonest
act I want no part of it.
> I know it's rather like asking someone...Have you stopped beating your
> wife?There's no good answer; which is my point.
For those who of course were not doing this act, Yes!
> Whenever Eckists act as a group there is a faster accumulation of
> energy which starts a snowball effect.It is similar to building up
> momentum.The individual momentum of spiritual growth is attached
> between people and it is a larger cause with a larger effect.
> This can lead to faster growth in a local area or a degenerative
effect > with actually less people getting involved.
True. Care to offer an opinion as to the events here recently lead to a
faster growth in a local area or a degenerative effect? <G>
> Very similar online dynamic which is why groups of people(like
Eckists)
> form bonds of loosely held agreement to advance the Eck flow.
> When 2 groups of loosely held agreement collide the flow is dispersed
> and must rebuild momentum.It can lead to a greater flow or a lesser
> flow. eventually.It can go either way.
Which way do you feel it went? I would hope that something good would
come of what to me looked like and was an adversarial situation
unfortunately. I took longer to write back because I wanted to provide
a more serious look at the topic and could not do that earlier at work.
Windy
>
> Hawk,
>
> Thanks for this a fine piece of work. For me it shows again the "reality" of
> so many levels of activity occuring similtaneously in the same moment, many
> issues at stake or being resolved, and those participants within it, not one
> of them really being able to see all the goings on at the same time, and
> usually never. Although in places like here, we usually get the sense that
> things are somewhat more intense from time to time.
>
> My feelings about this? When everyone is mature enough, shall we say wise
> enough, to restrict their "activity" in the whirlpool to their own state
> discussing issues directly related to them in the here & now, then things
> may not need to become so intense or create conflicts and ruptures between
> individuals. I personally find a state of humility as being preferrable to
> that of a fine purveyor of Eck truths trying to sell my wares up and down
> the highway to strange feral animals who really aren't interested anyway.
>
> With Love
>
> SantimVah
>
> PS And gee thanks windy, I just stepped in it. How about being more careful
> next time. You know the pen is mightier than the sword. Phew it sticks and I
> can't afford anew pair of shoes........woe is me
I just loved that scene in Forrest Gump where he was being respected as
some sort of Guru!
But you are correct in your accessment of Hawk's post. Sometimes it
helps to verbalize just what it is you believe. It makes it that much
clearer to everyone, doesn't it. That is probably why I am here, to pick
up things that are important in living life the best we can. You can
find that sort of thing here, you just have to look. But the problem in
looking for the good stuff is you also have to sort through the gobbledy
gook!
Sharo...@playful.com
> Joey,
>
> I would appreciate your re-posting the post you claim Steve R.
> made concerning his daughter's car accident.
>
> Please post it with dates & subjects from Deja, so that it can
> be confirmed.
>
> Otherwise, well...I will assume that you are lying. I've never
> seen you without a mirror in front of you. Don't you get
> a bit sick?
>
> No...I guess not...you only see what you want to see.
>
> Sharon
Well, my newsreader shows 22 responses to my original post here
and I don't have the time or desire to read through them...
<giggle> I've sort of already read them "on the inner" so why
bother?
I know proof of Joey's original accusation, a post by Steve
Runfeldt showing that he did *not* disappear from here because
he couldn't answer my questions about Harold's deceptive
editing, has not been posted.
So...if anyone *does* have it, please post it here publicly with
a copy to me at home. You might want to put in the subject line
"Repost of Steve's Coma Post"
Thanks!!
Hugs,
Sharon
Paul Twitchell in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book 2 : "Those who are without the
Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, are pagans, little better than those life
forms just below that of man." page 173
--
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
New email address: sharo...@playful.com
Desdenova
>
> Desperado,the confessional is open from 1 p.m. to 3 .pm. Monday through
> Friday.It has a screen for privacy.But remember some people are here
> for other reasons so please be couteous and keep the noise down.
>
> Bishop FuFu
>
"Forgive me father, for I have..... OH GOD!!!!
MMMMMMMMM!!! YES! YES! YES! HARDER! FASTER!!!
uh... sinned. Ohhhhhhhhhhh gawwwwwwwwd, have I
ever sinned! Whew!"
~Des
Desdenova
> Well, my newsreader shows 22 responses to my original post here
> and I don't have the time or desire to read through them...
Yeah, right. How convenient.
Galuuk
<<< I know proof of Joey's original accusation, a post by Steve
Runfeldt showing that he did *not* disappear from here because
he couldn't answer my questions about Harold's deceptive
editing, has not been posted. >>>
I think Sharon's computer must have caught Mahavahana's(Joe's) virus. It's
become
"detractorized"
It doesn't seem to register posts that disprove her idiotic statements. It's
either that or she's in such a schizophrenic state of denial that she's now
convinced herself that she's blind.
FOR HEAVEN SAKE, SHARON......Steve himself YESTERDAY posted that I was correct
in my assesment.
Sharon, no one is that blind or that stupid....not even you.
Joey
At the end of information there is knowledge.....
At the end of knowledge there is Wisdom.....
At the end of Wisdom there is Love.....
Desdenova
>
> Incredibly, Sharon posts the following...
>
> <<< I know proof of Joey's original accusation, a post by Steve
> Runfeldt showing that he did *not* disappear from here because
> he couldn't answer my questions about Harold's deceptive
> editing, has not been posted. >>>
>
> I think Sharon's computer must have caught Mahavahana's(Joe's) virus. It's
> become
>
> "detractorized"
>
> It doesn't seem to register posts that disprove her idiotic statements. It's
> either that or she's in such a schizophrenic state of denial that she's now
> convinced herself that she's blind.
>
> FOR HEAVEN SAKE, SHARON......Steve himself YESTERDAY posted that I was correct
> in my assesment.
>
> Sharon, no one is that blind or that stupid....not even you.
Yeah, but Joey: Nothing matters to Sharon, except to paint Eckists
and Eckankar in the absolute worst light possible. She would be happy
if she could begin a genocidal war and kill every Eckist on the planet,
firebomb the Temple, and burn every last bit of ECK literature in
existence. She has made that much clear by her attitude, smear campaign,
slander, and her posts on her website. Her posts on this newsgroup are
child's play, compared to the homicidal rage that she is consumed with.
~Des
s...@mindspring.com
Steve R.
In article <20000407135617.675$W...@newsreader.com>,
Sharo...@playful.com wrote:
> Sharo...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Joey,
> >
> > I would appreciate your re-posting the post you claim Steve R.
> > made concerning his daughter's car accident.
> >
> > Please post it with dates & subjects from Deja, so that it can
> > be confirmed.
> >
> > Otherwise, well...I will assume that you are lying. I've never
> > seen you without a mirror in front of you. Don't you get
> > a bit sick?
> >
> > No...I guess not...you only see what you want to see.
> >
> > Sharon
>
> Well, my newsreader shows 22 responses to my original post here
> and I don't have the time or desire to read through them...
>
> <giggle> I've sort of already read them "on the inner" so why
> bother?
>
> I know proof of Joey's original accusation, a post by Steve
> Runfeldt showing that he did *not* disappear from here because
> he couldn't answer my questions about Harold's deceptive
> editing, has not been posted.
>
> So...if anyone *does* have it, please post it here publicly
with
> a copy to me at home. You might want to put in the subject
line
> "Repost of Steve's Coma Post"
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Hugs,
>
> Sharon
>
> Paul Twitchell in Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad Book 2 : "Those who are without
the
> Mahanta, the Living ECK Master, are pagans, little better than those
life
> forms just below that of man." page 173
>
> --
> http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
>
> New email address: sharo...@playful.com
>
Hawk
duplicity the way you see it?
Would it surprise you to know that all chelas are, at some point,
presented with seemimgly unsolvable delimas concerning the meaning of
authority?
It seems to me that there is duplicity,but it is an integrel part of
everyone's consciousness.One thing with A.R.E. that people should be
aware of is that there are extremely negative flows within it that
don't specifically have anything to do with disagreement.If
participants are not aware of these flows,the subconscious becomes a
sponge that absorbs it with all the triggers already in place within
our own unresolved issues ready to go off.
So there is a problem with public confrontation in a situation like
this that wouldn't exist outside in the "real world".
It wouldn't be quite as intense in a different situation mostly because
it would be more directly accessed.There are simply too many
subconscious filters of people dealing the aspects of the "personal
Censor" going on at once.
It is like a simultaneous trigger within hundreds of people all at once.
I've come to the conclusion that as far as working through really
difficult personal issues that this isn't the best avenue for such
work,not because there isn't much to learn about such things here,but
because there are too many people being affected simultaneously in this
forum.
Also,I found that it is better to approach such issues as a reduction
to no more than 3 participants at any one time...mainly myself,one
other person,and the Mahanta,and that this is where the essence of
conflict resolution becomes direct enough to be resolved.
This involves a certain amount of discipline within the spiritual
exercises and most people don't want to look that closely.
>
> > Honesty,however,is a personal code of conduct based on a
> > different "scale" if you will.
> > Is someone who forms a bond with like minded people loyal or
> dishonest?
>
> Depends on the situation here. Using your original post in response to
> the usual Sharon post, many people here most likely agreed with your
> response. Myself included. Yet, my point was that if the situations
> were reversed, Sharon the HI or Eck Initiate and you responding in the
> same way but you now are labeled detractor, many would have said you
> were judgemental. This would be an example of loyalty that plays a
role
> in people being intellectually dishonest imo. Either judging is a
> frowned upon behavior or not, but it is not usually based on the truth
> in any given situation but by the players involved doing the judging
> and being judged. (I'm getting a headache <g> thank goodness Eck is a
> path of the heart and not just pure intellectualism <G>)
>
This idea that there are "facts" that are obvious intrigues me.Isn't
what we see as "obvious" a dispute in itself?If the "obvious facts"
ever eluded us we might just open ourselves to truth and wouldn't that
be a hoot?<VBG>
Do you see that the reason that both worlds collided recently here was
due to the "fact" that both groups assessed the situation and saw
the "facts" legitimately quite differently with different conclusions
resulting.
I don't believe that mere friendship(which is how you are using
loyality)was the basis of confrontation.
All group activity is first based on agreement at some level.Blind
loyality I haven't seen as a major factor in any of this.I really
haven't.
The Eck flow can only truely degenerate when there is a concentric
power base of people who are able to keep the power
localized.Clearly,this is neither being advocated nor
possible,anyway,in this group of online participants.
What I was saying in essence is that the momentum of Eck flow that
helps to equalize the negativity was disrupted.
This only meant that more people had to deal with more issues on their
own with less direct help from the Mahanta because they were not
working directly with the Eck ,but within their subconcious with
unresolved personal issues.
Every chela will expereince this at some time or another.The Mahanta
won't interfere with chelas acting on their own through unconscious
triggers.It has to do with an inner conflict with the individual's
censor and that is where it will be resolved.The public arena is only a
pale reflection of this conflict.
luv, Hawk
luv, Hawk
> Which way do you feel it went? I would hope that something good would
> come of what to me looked like and was an adversarial situation
> unfortunately. I took longer to write back because I wanted to provide
> a more serious look at the topic and could not do that earlier at
work.
>
Hawk
luv, Hawk
luv, Hawk
SantimVah
> SantimVah wrote:
> >
> > Hawk,
> >
> I just loved that scene in Forrest Gump where he was being respected as
> some sort of Guru!
> But you are correct in your accessment of Hawk's post. Sometimes it
> helps to verbalize just what it is you believe. It makes it that much
> clearer to everyone, doesn't it. That is probably why I am here, to pick
> up things that are important in living life the best we can. You can
> find that sort of thing here, you just have to look. But the problem in
> looking for the good stuff is you also have to sort through the gobbledy
> gook!
>
>
<g> Yes windy, like looking for the opals amongst the gravel
................mind you I'm sure I'm guilty of driving in with my gravel
truck more than once, hitting the hydralics lever to the tilt tray and
dumping a load!! <vbg>
Well with sorting through the "gobbledy gook" (I see you did Arts in College
,<g>) I am finding the Block Sender command in the Message Menu of my
Outlook Express most effective in dealing with that problem!! <VVVbg>
Try it, it amazing how much easier it is to get through the new posts
downloaded................... the quality has improved over night, {;-o]
With Love,
SantimVah
Windy
Bob uses microsoft. I have Netscape over here. It is quite the ancient
one also. I think the delete key is the only option open to me.
When I do use his computer I do filter messages. But he recently
reformatted his harddrive and didn't bother downloading the newsgroups
again and I never got around to it, so thar ya go!
Windy
davidbarnes
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> So,then,is it the level and strength of agreement that makes for the
> duplicity the way you see it?
Not at all. Strictly honesty. Honesty with ourselves and others to the
best of our ability at any given moment.
> Would it surprise you to know that all chelas are, at some point,
> presented with seemimgly unsolvable delimas concerning the meaning of
> authority?
Yes. I would have believed that anything can be "Solved" with the
Master's help.
> It seems to me that there is duplicity,but it is an integrel part of
> everyone's consciousness.One thing with A.R.E. that people should be
> aware of is that there are extremely negative flows within it that
> don't specifically have anything to do with disagreement.If
> participants are not aware of these flows,the subconscious becomes a
> sponge that absorbs it with all the triggers already in place within
> our own unresolved issues ready to go off.
Yes, I agree. It is a decision then to continue to write here or not. I
think that one thing that can help this situation that you have
described is that prior to coming here to come with a pure heart. To do
so, in my opinion, will provide the protection of the Eck.
> So there is a problem with public confrontation in a situation like
> this that wouldn't exist outside in the "real world".
Yes.
> It wouldn't be quite as intense in a different situation mostly
because
> it would be more directly accessed.There are simply too many
> subconscious filters of people dealing the aspects of the "personal
> Censor" going on at once.
> It is like a simultaneous trigger within hundreds of people all at
once.
> I've come to the conclusion that as far as working through really
> difficult personal issues that this isn't the best avenue for such
> work,not because there isn't much to learn about such things here,but
> because there are too many people being affected simultaneously in
this
> forum.
True. But what is your opinion on people, good, honorable, and yes
Eckist people who come here and not as individuals, but as people who
make use of their initiation level and years in Eck and even their
friendships with well known Eckists, as a credibility factor when they
verbally malign others? As individuals, I say let the Eck take care of
Itself. But when they use their initiation level/years etc as a means
to justify the verbal abuse and people here either ignore it, or cheer
it on, so to speak, it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart, Even when,
in many instances, the people have earned it from a old law, eye for an
eye consciousness viewpoint.
> Also,I found that it is better to approach such issues as a reduction
> to no more than 3 participants at any one time...mainly myself,one
> other person,and the Mahanta,and that this is where the essence of
> conflict resolution becomes direct enough to be resolved.
> This involves a certain amount of discipline within the spiritual
> exercises and most people don't want to look that closely.
I agree. But What you are describing is a personal issue with two or
more people. For me, the issue is much more macro in approach as
described in my previous reply to you. It is telling to me that so many
of the people react so strongly to my posting a Zoa quote after one of
their verbal blasts against other human beings.
>
> >
> > > Honesty,however,is a personal code of conduct based on a
> > > different "scale" if you will.
> > > Is someone who forms a bond with like minded people loyal or
> > dishonest?
> >
> > Depends on the situation here. Using your original post in response
to
> > the usual Sharon post, many people here most likely agreed with your
> > response. Myself included. Yet, my point was that if the situations
> > were reversed, Sharon the HI or Eck Initiate and you responding in
the
> > same way but you now are labeled detractor, many would have said you
> > were judgemental. This would be an example of loyalty that plays a
> role
> > in people being intellectually dishonest imo. Either judging is a
> > frowned upon behavior or not, but it is not usually based on the
truth
> > in any given situation but by the players involved doing the judging
> > and being judged. (I'm getting a headache <g> thank goodness Eck is
a
> > path of the heart and not just pure intellectualism <G>)
> >
> This idea that there are "facts" that are obvious intrigues me.Isn't
> what we see as "obvious" a dispute in itself?
Of course. Every head is a world is the old saying.
If the "obvious facts"
> ever eluded us we might just open ourselves to truth and wouldn't that
> be a hoot?<VBG>
> Do you see that the reason that both worlds collided recently here was
> due to the "fact" that both groups assessed the situation and saw
> the "facts" legitimately quite differently with different conclusions
> resulting.
Yes.
> I don't believe that mere friendship(which is how you are using
> loyality)was the basis of confrontation.
> All group activity is first based on agreement at some level.Blind
> loyality I haven't seen as a major factor in any of this.I really
> haven't.
>
> > > One paricular thing I noticed with the responses to Nathan that a
> > group
> > > mentality in response was also evident with like minded people.A
> very
> > > similar dynamic was involved with people jumping on a bandwagon.
> > > Is this also an example of misplaced loyality or is it an example
of
> > > like minded people who formed a loosely held agreement?
To me honesty is honesty. When Nathan was using his autism parody for
example, the only person who spoke out about this was Sharon. because
so many people do not care for the way she has spoken about our
religion, other eckists etc. they could not see that she was right and
told her so in some instances. Nor could they see that her posts on
autism were helpful. Then the person from Israel wrote in and said he
had a 28 year old son or daughter (can't remember)& he asked Nathan to
please stop making a joke out of Autism, He also stated that he agreed
with and praised Sharon's posts on Autism. Because of our past
experiences with Sharon, and some of the resentments some people may
have with Sharon, no one was honest in the entire situation imo. I did
notice that no one took this man to task for asking Nathan to stop
using parody when it came to autism. We Eckists here were unable to see
truth and beauty until an outsider made us aware of it, and even those
who disagreed with the man, did not bother to write in to say so. In my
view, another example of dishonesty here also.
Certainly anything that disrupts the momentum of the Eck flow is not a
good thing, imo. Should I or anyone take a stand, even in a non-
confrontational way by posting some quotes from our holy books, or is
it more appropriate to just not do anything? A very dear friend of my
wife and I, an Eckist, says she learned years ago, to let the Eck
defend Itself. She gave the example of postering. No sooner had she put
a poster up, when a group of young children came and tore it off the
wall. She wanted to immediately reprimand the children, but her inner
nudge said, no, do not do anything, the Eck can defend Itself. Where
is our place in the scheme of things, as vehicles for the Eck, when
and if we see people verbaling abusing others, impugning other people's
reputations not as individuals but as representatives not only of
Eckankar, but as people in the higher spiritual hierarchy here on
earth, as Eckankar High Initiates? If this last part is too touchy an
issue, my e-mail is available.
Thanks for your dialogue on these topics.
LOve In Eck,
Dave
davidbarnes
newsgroups??
> Wasn't to keep little windy's fingers off his fine machine? <vbg>
>
> Anyway, you may consider downloading a free upgrade for your netscape
off
> the net and jump into the 21st century?
>
> With love
> Santimvah
First:
"Them Tha Newsgroups?" ; "Little Windy?" ; "Jump into the 21st Century?"
Then:
"With Love?"
I don't think so.
"With a condescending attitude" would be much more appropriate, imo.
SantimVah
SantimVah
Hawk <hu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8cnhdk$hs2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> So,then,is it the level and strength of agreement that makes for the
> duplicity the way you see it?
> Would it surprise you to know that all chelas are, at some point,
> presented with seemimgly unsolvable delimas concerning the meaning of
> authority?
> It seems to me that there is duplicity,but it is an integrel part of
> everyone's consciousness.One thing with A.R.E. that people should be
> aware of is that there are extremely negative flows within it that
> don't specifically have anything to do with disagreement.If
> participants are not aware of these flows,the subconscious becomes a
> sponge that absorbs it with all the triggers already in place within
> our own unresolved issues ready to go off.
So true, and those triggers can fire without people actually being
consciouly aware of it I believe.
> So there is a problem with public confrontation in a situation like
> this that wouldn't exist outside in the "real world".
> It wouldn't be quite as intense in a different situation mostly because
> it would be more directly accessed.
Yes in the "real world" I think that is much less likely that the content of
many of the confrontational, judgemental and aggressive would have been
verbalised in a face to face situation quite so stridently. The
self-survival instinct would have applied a much more respectful and
enquiring tone, IMO.
There are simply too many
> subconscious filters of people dealing the aspects of the "personal
> Censor" going on at once.
> It is like a simultaneous trigger within hundreds of people all at once.
> I've come to the conclusion that as far as working through really
> difficult personal issues that this isn't the best avenue for such
> work,not because there isn't much to learn about such things here,but
> because there are too many people being affected simultaneously in this
> forum.
> Also,I found that it is better to approach such issues as a reduction
> to no more than 3 participants at any one time...mainly myself,one
> other person,and the Mahanta,and that this is where the essence of
> conflict resolution becomes direct enough to be resolved.
> This involves a certain amount of discipline within the spiritual
> exercises and most people don't want to look that closely.
>
This becomes most difficult to achieve when situations arise where there are
only the 2 parties present, with the other refusing to participate in direct
dialog.
> >
> > > Honesty,however,is a personal code of conduct based on a
> > > different "scale" if you will.
> > > Is someone who forms a bond with like minded people loyal or
> > dishonest?
> >
> > Depends on the situation here. Using your original post in response to
> > the usual Sharon post, many people here most likely agreed with your
> > response. Myself included. Yet, my point was that if the situations
> > were reversed, Sharon the HI or Eck Initiate and you responding in the
> > same way but you now are labeled detractor, many would have said you
> > were judgemental. This would be an example of loyalty that plays a
> role
> > in people being intellectually dishonest imo. Either judging is a
> > frowned upon behavior or not, but it is not usually based on the truth
> > in any given situation but by the players involved doing the judging
> > and being judged. (I'm getting a headache <g> thank goodness Eck is a
> > path of the heart and not just pure intellectualism <G>)
> >
Well I'm not surprised you got a headache <g> The above seems to me to be
just hypothetical stuff which is irrelevant and a distraction to the
"reality" of the events that actually occured. Theory is fine, but practical
application in the here and now I find much more effective. What did he
write? What did you read? How do you feel? What do you mean? How can I
re-word what I wrote so he can read what I meant? When you said this I felt
this! This is real stuff that brings understanding and not headaches. <g>
> This idea that there are "facts" that are obvious intrigues me.Isn't
> what we see as "obvious" a dispute in itself?If the "obvious facts"
> ever eluded us we might just open ourselves to truth and wouldn't that
> be a hoot?<VBG>
Oh, what a beautiful day it was, and now look at this magnificant sundown,
wow the red in the clouds.
Whilst, on the other side of the world.........................
Oh shit, it's morning already, if I don't more sleep I'll die and damn it's
still raining too!
The only "obvious fact" here is that the Earth spins on it's
axis.........everything else is an OPINION. <VBG>
Again I see this as so much theoretical psycho babble. Those that this, and
those that that, and you do this and choose to express that regardless of
the facts (what facts?) are dishonest. I really do think that by projecting
out such hypothetical senarios only leads one away from the source of the
conflict attempting be understood. (I hope I make some sense here, but am
trying to be brief)
Surely it would be more honest to say.......I did this, and I did that, and
I felt this, and so I did that. or I think what he said then meant that,
which made me feel like this, or then again speak directly with the he, and
leave the rest out of it?
> > > Are you loyal or dishonest?
> >
> > I try to just be honest. If loyalty requires dishonesty or a dishonest
> > act I want no part of it.
> >
Yes, but is it honest to be dis-loyal, even unintentionally?
> > > I know it's rather like asking someone...Have you stopped beating
> your
> > > wife?There's no good answer; which is my point.
> >
> > For those who of course were not doing this act, Yes!
> >
Sorry, being in a position where one could honestly answer "no" is still not
a "good" answer. Do you understand the point here?
> > > Whenever Eckists act as a group there is a faster accumulation of
> > > energy which starts a snowball effect.It is similar to building up
> > > momentum.The individual momentum of spiritual growth is attached
> > > between people and it is a larger cause with a larger effect.
> > > This can lead to faster growth in a local area or a degenerative
> > effect > with actually less people getting involved.
> >
> > True. Care to offer an opinion as to the events here recently lead to
> a
> > faster growth in a local area or a degenerative effect? <G>
> >
Would it make any difference to the events or the outcomes?
> > > Very similar online dynamic which is why groups of people(like
> > Eckists)
> > > form bonds of loosely held agreement to advance the Eck flow.
> > > When 2 groups of loosely held agreement collide the flow is
> dispersed
> > > and must rebuild momentum.It can lead to a greater flow or a lesser
> > > flow. eventually.It can go either way.
> >
> The Eck flow can only truely degenerate when there is a concentric
> power base of people who are able to keep the power
> localized.Clearly,this is neither being advocated nor
> possible,anyway,in this group of online participants.
> What I was saying in essence is that the momentum of Eck flow that
> helps to equalize the negativity was disrupted.
Though not understanding it at the time, I believe what you say here is
accurate. I certainly felt it!
> This only meant that more people had to deal with more issues on their
> own with less direct help from the Mahanta because they were not
> working directly with the Eck ,but within their subconcious with
> unresolved personal issues.
> Every chela will expereince this at some time or another.The Mahanta
> won't interfere with chelas acting on their own through unconscious
> triggers.It has to do with an inner conflict with the individual's
> censor and that is where it will be resolved.The public arena is only a
> pale reflection of this conflict.
>
> luv, Hawk
>
Yes, everyone's a mirror of ourselves in other words, though here it is a
pale reflection which makes it more illusive than usual face to face
relationships. Makes it so much easier to judge others harshly by
mis-judging the 'facts". very tricky stuff, imo.
Excellant discourse Hawk, and worth keeping for future reference.
With Love
SantimVah
Jackie
news:8cogic$ib4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
: To me honesty is honesty. When Nathan was using his autism parody for
: example, the only person who spoke out about this was Sharon. because
: so many people do not care for the way she has spoken about our
: religion, other eckists etc. they could not see that she was right and
: told her so in some instances. Nor could they see that her posts on
: autism were helpful. Then the person from Israel wrote in and said he
: had a 28 year old son or daughter (can't remember)& he asked Nathan to
: please stop making a joke out of Autism, He also stated that he agreed
: with and praised Sharon's posts on Autism. Because of our past
: experiences with Sharon, and some of the resentments some people may
: have with Sharon, no one was honest in the entire situation imo. I did
: notice that no one took this man to task for asking Nathan to stop
: using parody when it came to autism. We Eckists here were unable to see
: truth and beauty until an outsider made us aware of it, and even those
: who disagreed with the man, did not bother to write in to say so. In my
: view, another example of dishonesty here also.
I still believe that silence does NOT mean others agrees or disagrees with the
remarks at that time. If someone behaves a certain way that I don't agree with,
it doesn't give me the right to tell that person their behavior is
inappropriate. (It will depend on the situation.) Some may want to say
something, others may not but it doesn't mean the silent ones disapprove or
approve. (Think of the 9 silent ones!) Besides, how do I know if someone does
or doesn't respond privately. I don't.
I don't know what you mean or what you are driving at when you say "We Eckists
here were unable to see truth and beauty until an outsider made us aware of
it...." I could take this several ways. If you have the time, can you explain
you own thoughts behind your words? Thanks.
--
With love, Jackie
Hear the HU song at:
http://members.home.net/hu4god/
mailto:hu4...@home.com
An Introductory Welcome to ECKANKAR:
ECKANKAR, Ancient Wisdom for Today:
http://www.eckankar.org/freeBook.html
Hear the Living ECK Master on the web:
http://www.eckankar.org/harold.mov
(takes some time to download)
Mailing lists related to ECKANKAR:
http://www.onelist.com
(do a search on: Eckankar)
davidbarnes
> "davidbarnes" <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote in message
> news:8cogic$ib4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> : example, the only person who spoke out about this was Sharon. because
> : so many people do not care for the way she has spoken about our
> : religion, other eckists etc. they could not see that she was right and
> : told her so in some instances. Nor could they see that her posts on
> : autism were helpful. Then the person from Israel wrote in and said he
> : had a 28 year old son or daughter (can't remember)& he asked Nathan to
> : please stop making a joke out of Autism, He also stated that he agreed
> : with and praised Sharon's posts on Autism. Because of our past
> : experiences with Sharon, and some of the resentments some people may
> : have with Sharon, no one was honest in the entire situation imo. I did
> : notice that no one took this man to task for asking Nathan to stop
> : using parody when it came to autism. We Eckists here were unable to see
> : truth and beauty until an outsider made us aware of it, and even those
> : who disagreed with the man, did not bother to write in to say so. In my
> : view, another example of dishonesty here also.
>
> remarks at that time. If someone behaves a certain way that I don't agree with,
> it doesn't give me the right to tell that person their behavior is
> inappropriate. (It will depend on the situation.) Some may want to say
> something, others may not but it doesn't mean the silent ones disapprove or
> approve. (Think of the 9 silent ones!) Besides, how do I know if someone does
> or doesn't respond privately. I don't.
>
> here were unable to see truth and beauty until an outsider made us aware of
> you own thoughts behind your words? Thanks.
Since many of us have read the things that Sharon has written about our
religion and the way she has treated many of us, we could not see that
she was right when she spoke out about a person here using Autism in a
parody or joking way imo. Couple that with the possibility, the real
possibility imo, of a double standard, when it comes to how we respond
or do not respond to Eckists or Eck High Initiates especially as
compared to non-Eckists, and what she was saying about Autism that the
man from Israel said was helpful and true, and no one else here thought
that or took the time to write in prior to that or after that. This
includes not speaking out when an Eckist here called her perspective
"Political Correctness." To me, it provides an excellent example of the
limitations of not treating each situation individually and not trying
to live in the present moment to the best of our ability to help us be
honest with ourselves and others on any issue or topic. So if I have
had my differences with Nathan in the past for example, and Desdenova,
now Frank, posts one of Nathan's poems, in true a.r.e. perspective one
would think that I would either trash it, or ignore it. Yet, the truth
is that the poem, is terrific, and it was nice to put aside some of the
old baggage, and say so. <G> Others may wish to try to put aside some
of the old baggage too sometimes imo.
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
Ken
SantimVah <No-spaMS...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
:
: Anyway, you may consider downloading a free upgrade for your netscape off
: the net and jump into the 21st century?
Hey if my experience is any guide, don't do it with an older machine
unless you have plenty (64+ meg) of memory and don't mind waiting
two to three times as long to do what used to take seconds.
I've got a 100MHz Pentium and while the new features sure are fun it
just isn't fast enough to run those newfangled bloatware programs the
evil empire (Microsoft) keeps churning out <g>.
Ken
Anne
>> : To me honesty is honesty. When Nathan was using his autism
parody for
>> : example, the only person who spoke out about this was
Sharon. because
>> : so many people do not care for the way she has spoken about
our
>> : religion, other eckists etc. they could not see that she was
right and
>> : told her so in some instances.
One would need a strong desire to focus on what one can connect
with in others including Sharon, to find what is beautiful and
loving in her or anyone else. It's always a choice for us to be
and speak what we are here to share. There's no rocket science
here <g>.... At anytime we can choose to draw a line in the sand
and make a break with the past, anyone can have a new day.
Love,
Anne
Nor could they see that her
posts on
>> : autism were helpful.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
davidbarnes
wrote:
>
> :
> : Anyway, you may consider downloading a free upgrade for your netscape off
> : the net >
>
> unless you have plenty (64+ meg) of memory and don't mind waiting
> two to three times as long to do what used to take seconds.
>
> I've got a 100MHz Pentium and while the new features sure are fun it
> just isn't fast enough to run those newfangled bloatware programs the
> evil empire (Microsoft) keeps churning out <g>.
>
>
>
>
> Ken
Hi Ken,
Netscape isn't made by Microsoft. My computer does run Microsofts
newest browser with absolutely no problem and is far less quick than a
100 MHZ computer. I do have more than the 64 megabytes you indicated
which may indeed be the key to the situation here like you indicated.
On aside note, those who are going to use the internet to listen to the
LIving Eck Master's talk from the Spring seminar may have a better
experience with Microsoft's browser. The downloaded versions available
from Microsoft will work immediately, but in the past the downloaded
versions of Netscape gave quite a few people problems requiring that
more plug-ins be installed further. Netscape is actually one of the
companies that helped make it possible to successfully sue Microsoft
recently.
Jan4litsnd
>> : To me honesty is honesty. When Nathan was using his autism parody for
> : example, the only person who spoke out about this was Sharon. because
> : so many people do not care for the way she has spoken about our
> : religion, other eckists etc. they could not see that she was right and
Dave, that is your perspective, and a valid one it is--for you. Others may
choose not to respond for any of a variety of reasons, not necessarily those
reasons you mentioned. For instance, when Jackie says that she wouldn't
necessarily wish to point something out to someone, that is also a very valid
way to feel about it. I feel exactly the same way. And even that a part of the
four zoas points out precisely that. Read No. 2 zoa below--
(2) The Mahdis shall not speak with tongue of vanity or deceit or unhappiness,
criticize the actions of others, blame others for wrongdoings, quarrel, fight
or inflict injury....
Jan
davidbarnes
I agree with what you are saying Jan, but it leads me to my final
point, which as you have accurately pointed out, is my perspective of
course, not anyone elses or certainly representing our organization.
Is Sharon's hatred of Eckankar for example, the result of her views on
Eckankar only or also as a result of the behavior of some of the people
here, who have indeed criticized, quarreled and most importantly do
inflict injury not as individuals but as representatives of supposedly
our best, our people who have been in Eck the longest, and have
attained, the higher insights and consciousness of God, via their outer
initiation rank? I believe it is also the latter. In essence, what came
first, the chicken or the egg? And what is the cost of having our
Higher Initiates abusing and maligning people's reputations in an
organized way here not as individuals but as representatives of
Eckankar in a sort of G. Gordon Liddy Fanaticism at times that feels
that the defense of Liberty (the Eck) is true honor perspective. There
is a cost when our Mahdis abuse and malign others and people here say
nothing publicly or privately or even pile on or cheer these people on.
This I know from personal experience, the difference being my Love for
the Mahanta and knowingness that these individuals when they are
abusing and maligning others and their reputations do not have the
slightest idea during these intervals about Eck, God or certainly
love.
LOve In Eck,
Dave
--
http://www.eckankar.org/spex.html
http://www.eckankar.org/Prophet/exercises.html
http://www.eckankar.org/SEW/SPEXtryout.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/9994899317/qid=955228325/sr=1-
2/103-8781340-5186216
davidbarnes
davidbarnes <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote:
Jan,
I have no desire to continue this topic further. Like Hawk said, the
overall effect on the Eck flow in terms of possible defragmentation
with topics like these is not in anyone's best interest. I agree.
Perhaps if KaraHolly is out there, she could post a spiritual topic
that we could have dialogue on. I would gladly reflect and discourse
with you on a spiritual topic. :-)
By the way Kara (if you read this) I regret my suggestion about the
Hotel 6 after our dinner date last Wednesday. I hope you can overlook
my impulsiveness and perhaps give me another chance.
Hawk
essence,considering the total manifestation of competing causes in the
lower planes,I would tend to agree that,in fact,shit does happen.<VBG>
luv, Hawk
In article <38EDCB93...@united.net>,
Desdenova <gun...@united.net> wrote:
>
>
> Windy wrote:
> >
> > WOW! I thought shit just happened.
>
> ROFL!!!
>
--
Hu-for-U
Anne
<ysa...@nerc.com> wrote:
>In article <8csdi3$k5d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> davidbarnes <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote:
>
>Jan,
>
>I have no desire to continue this topic further. Like Hawk said,
the
>overall effect on the Eck flow in terms of possible
defragmentation
>with topics like these is not in anyone's best interest.
I also agree that the topic is most difficult for many here and
seems to cause a great deal of emotional reaction. Perhaps it is
in the interest of compassion to let it go.
However, it is very important to note the reality of the ECK.
There is absolutely nothing that can in anyway change the course
of the ECK flow. It is a roaring river from the Heart of God.
It goes where it wants and no one and nothing can change it.
Love to ALL,
Anne
Galuuk
<<< To me honesty is honesty. When Nathan was using his autism parody for
: example, the only person who spoke out about this was Sharon. because
: so many people do not care for the way she has spoken about our
: religion, other eckists etc. they could not see that she was right and
: told her so in some instances. Nor could they see that her posts on
: autism were helpful. Then the person from Israel wrote in and said he
: had a 28 year old son or daughter (can't remember)& he asked Nathan to
: please stop making a joke out of Autism, He also stated that he agreed
: with and praised Sharon's posts on Autism. Because of our past
: experiences with Sharon, and some of the resentments some people may
: have with Sharon, no one was honest in the entire situation imo. >>>>
Oh, you mean the "sensitive" Sharon. The one who lied about why Steve stopped
posting in A.R.E. The same Sharon who just this weekend posted more
"sensitive" crap about a very traumatic incident in his life.
I don't want to hear a bleeping word about how "sensitive" Sharon is or was.
Her motives were purely to defame Eckankar and nothing else. She has no more
sensitivity to autistic children than a horse on the moon.
It's time for folks to see Sharon for who she IS and not who she CLAIMS to BE.
Ken
davidbarnes <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote ...
:
: This I know from personal experience, the difference being my Love for
: the Mahanta and knowingness that these individuals when they are
: abusing and maligning others and their reputations do not have the
: slightest idea during these intervals about Eck, God or certainly
: love.
None of us really knows what the level of consciousness is of another
individual, IME. Their awareness is between them and the Inner
Master, the Mahanata.
Ken
davidbarnes
wrote:
>
> davidbarnes <ysa...@nerc.com> wrote ...
> :
> : This I know from personal experience, the difference being my Love for
> : the Mahanta and knowingness that these individuals when they are
> : abusing and maligning others and their reputations do not have the
> : slightest idea during these intervals about Eck, God or certainly
> : love.
>
>
>
> individual, IME. Their awareness is between them and the Inner
> Master, the Mahanata.
>
>
> Ken
Yet, people here do it quite often. Especially, Eckists when they talk
about detractors and other Eckists they disagree with. I do feel it is
possible to know the consciousness level of people in extreme cases.
For example, when people call other people looneys or sickos or ruin
people's reputations like often occurs here on a.r.e., a newsgroup
available worldwide. I feel in those time periods, or better put,
during these "Feeding Fests" that it is possible to say what I've
already stated: these individuals when they are
> : abusing and maligning others and their reputations do not have the
> : slightest idea during these intervals about Eck, God or certainly
> : love.
Dave
Galuuk
<<< She never makes a mistake she has not already forgotten
about, and she never forgets anything important apart from everything she
forgets. >>>
Michael sneaking up on Des for the "The Best One Liner of the Week"
<gg>
davidbarnes
Your attitude and outlook as shown in the paragraph above is why you
are unable to see beauty where before there may have only been ugly so
to speak, imo. That is why a non-Eckist who is not wrapped up in your
"Team Eckist a.r.e. reality" is able to see truth and beauty in her
autism posts and agrees that it is wrong for Nathan to use something as
serious as autism as a parody for his "jokes." Unlike, the one Eckist
here who characterized those who asked Nathan to stop his so called
jokes with a parody on Autism as being too "Politically Correct" the
reality to those who suffer with this diesese and have children
sufering with this diesese is that they struggle daily with its
consequences. Would you think these jokes using autism as parody would
be funny if you had a child with this diesese? My feeling given your "I
don't give a bleeping word" comment is that you would punch Nathan
right in the nose. And Joey, seperate her posts on Eckankar, because it
is her posts on autism and her stand against these insensitive, cruel
"jokes" that I was refering to and that you were unable to appreciate.
davidbarnes
Michael Wallace
Galuuk <gal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000410182613...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
> It's time for folks to see Sharon for who she IS and not who she CLAIMS to
BE.
Any one with eyes saw that long ago...
Sharon is a caring sensitive Soul who would NEVER defame anyone or call them
names. She cherishes her contact with ECKists and looks forward to every
post we write.
Every single word an ECKists writes is considered with the utmost love and
generosity of spirit, and she NEVER EVER confuses her syntax or logical
alignment in the structure of her arguments.
Sharon is an ABSOLUTE Saint who has never tarnished her reputation with
gossip or innuendo. She never makes a mistake she has not already forgotten
about, and she never forgets anything important apart from everything she
forgets.
She only uses words like SLIME and ASSWIPE out of compassion for her fellow
human beings, and genuine consideration for their feelings. And, of course,
she only even thinks the highest noblest thoughts about all at all times.
She hardly ever posts unasked for mail to private boxes where she vaguely
threatens to sue people, and if she did, she didn't, and if you prove it you
are harassing her. And she never ever gets confused.
Her most considerate feature if the way she hardly ever sends unwarranted
speculation of a negative nature to public News Groups.
Sharon, the Saint!
You could never meet a more wonderful, warm, thoughtful soul ...
Love
Alfie
<G>
SantimVah
Michael Wallace <wall...@one.net.au> wrote in message
news:38f3...@pink.one.net.au...
ROFLOL, LOL, LOL and still LOL!
Look here Alfie your point of view here doesn't wash with us cause you're
biased! Sharon is your only friend here, so i don't think you can claim
objectivity.
But anyway, I don't think anyone could blame her if she was a bit nasty
every now and then, considering the endless blistering attackes by Eckist's
here on her good character and undisputed wisdom in interpreting the ECK
works. I mean how much can a Koala bear?
Whilst i got you though Alfie, there's been a lot talk about the damaging
effects of parody, whilst your post really isn't such, it is bordering on
the irony line a bit heavy and I feel that some people here will completely
take it the wrong way and maybe cause them to profuse postings positively
propostioning postions pestering poor people politely passing by preferring
parody to puns.
So watch it OK?
<VBG>
With Love
p,p,p,p,p,p,PantimPah
SantimVah
actually a two liner! <G>
Sorry,
SantimVah
Galuuk <gal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000411185002...@ng-cu1.aol.com...
> Michael makes a comment in reference to Sharon....
>
> <<< She never makes a mistake she has not already forgotten
> about, and she never forgets anything important apart from everything she
> forgets. >>>
>
>
Michael Wallace
As long as a piece of string??
Picky picky!! <G>
love
Michael
SantimVah <No-spaMS...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:95551574...@brs.ihug.com.au...
Michael Wallace
> >
> > You could never meet a more wonderful, warm, thoughtful soul ...
>
> effects of parody, whilst your post really isn't such, it is bordering on
> the irony line a bit heavy and I feel that some people here will
completely
> take it the wrong way and maybe cause them to profuse postings positively
> propostioning postions pestering poor people politely passing by
preferring
> parody to puns.
>
>
Well SV... What are they gonna do?
Zoa Me? Pin me to the wall with yet another quote! Egad... Life is dangerous
enough... But today I managed a reallly good one... Got the school bus...
Yep... Blind corner, wet narrow road with the bus in the middle of a bridge
and my four wheel drive and I go SAILING along on the rain drenched tarmac
and instead of brakes working, they turn to ice skates! Yep... I visit its
bumper bar.
Fortunately no kids were on board. The bus was OK (surface damage only) And
EVEN BETTER... I think I have now have some excellent parts to sell <G>
Obviously this is God having revenge. I am sure many here will be pleased
<G>
Love
Michael
Frank H. Weeden
Ken wrote:
>
> Michael Wallace <wall...@one.net.au> wrote ...
> :
> : Well SV... What are they gonna do?
> :
> : Zoa Me? Pin me to the wall with yet another quote! Egad... Life is dangerous
> : enough... But today I managed a reallly good one... Got the school bus...
> : Yep... Blind corner, wet narrow road with the bus in the middle of a bridge
> : and my four wheel drive and I go SAILING along on the rain drenched tarmac
> : and instead of brakes working, they turn to ice skates! Yep... I visit its
> : bumper bar.
>
> Hey, be careful out there!
>
> (Blindingly obvious advice like this is great because not only is it free,
> it's pretty much useless too <g>).
>
> Ken
Sounds like the advice you get from the Microsoft errors that
pop up, just when you're trying to find that crucial document.
"Error 582: Cannot find "My Novel"
ARGH!!!!!!! WHY THE HELL NOT??????!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
@#*&@#$&%*&!!!!!!!!!!! <G>
Frankster
Galuuk
<<< wet narrow road with the bus in the middle of a bridge
and my four wheel drive and I go SAILING along on the rain drenched tarmac
and instead of brakes working, they turn to ice skates! >>>
<GG>
Now Michael, all of us Americans know from all the advertisements we see on
Austrailia that the sun ALWAYS shines down under.
There's no rain in Austrailia....
Ha, ha....hee, hee
Real good funnie you just told Michael.
Ken
Michael Wallace <wall...@one.net.au> wrote ...
:
: Well SV... What are they gonna do?
:
: Zoa Me? Pin me to the wall with yet another quote! Egad... Life is dangerous
: enough... But today I managed a reallly good one... Got the school bus...
: and my four wheel drive and I go SAILING along on the rain drenched tarmac
gol...@shani.net
As the father of the 28 year-old son Ben, who is nonverbal and "low
functioning autistic" but shows great spirituality through the use of a type
of Facilitiated Communication (FC), I came across the post from Sharon
defending persons with autism from the parody of Nathan Zafran and I posted
my response to your public newsgroup a.r.e. last week. Now, in looking for
posts on "autism" I noticed the exchange copied below and decided to post a
response.
1. I do appreciate that two Eckists sent me very compassionate private
e-mails apologizing for the statements of Nathan Zafran, one of which was
also posted to this newsgroup.
2. I realize that for reasons I do not know, a few days before I posted,
Nathan Zafran lest this newsgroup after many months of active participation.
However, his negative statements about autism remain on this public newsgroup
without his own public apology. Unfortunately, his numerous parodies using
autism will remain indefintely accessible to the the public. Personally, I
wish he would post a response to every one of them, including where they are
copied by someone else, apologizing for his negative statements about persons
with autism.
3. After I copied Sharon's post defending persons with autism, I noted that
at the very end she made very negative statements about Eckankar and people
involved with it. I did very quickly post an apology for unintentionally
copying something so negative. I do believe that Sharon's statements about
autism do show great sensitivity. On the other hand, I have noticed her
negative statements about other posters and other people and I do wish to
express that I would prefer that Sharon and others try to make their points
without being so negative, even though I understand the difficulty for many
people to control their natural characteristics. Therefore, I deleted the
specific negative statements made by Joey but I felt that David's complaint
to Joey was appropriate to copy. I hope that I have not offended Joey by
copying such statements - if so, please accept my apologies.
4. Since Eckists understand about Soul Travel, which I believe explains much
of the supposedly inappropriate behavior of persons with autism
(science-oriented experts describe persons with autism as being in their own
world when I believe their souls are engaged in Soul Travel), and my son Ben
has discussed through the use of Facilitated Communication, his own
experiences of conscious Soul Travel, I had hoped that this newsgroup could
be a safe place to discuss such matters. Such discussion could help me to
help explain autism to others. My son states that, among many spiritual
matters, his soul goes to the Highest Heaven and from there he relays
spiritual messages. On the other hand, there are within my own religious
group opponents of Facilitated Communication who are concerned that the
Kabbalistic concepts of the Sitra Achra or Ruach Tuma might be involved
(which could be translated as forms of Black Magic). However, the negative
statements rampant on this newsgroup make me reluctant to do try to discuss
these matters here. Do any of you have any suggestions of what I should do
about finding a safe place to discuss these concepts?
In article <K1OI4.654$0n5....@c01read04.service.talkway.com>,
"davidbarnes" <GODi...@ECK.org> wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2000 22:26:13 GMT gal...@aol.com (Galuuk) wrote:
> > David writes....
> >
> > <<< To me honesty is honesty. When Nathan was using his autism parody for
> > : example, the only person who spoke out about this was Sharon. because
> > : so many people do not care for the way she has spoken about our
> > : religion, other eckists etc. they could not see that she was right and
> > : told her so in some instances. Nor could they see that her posts on
> > : autism were helpful. Then the person from Israel wrote in and said he
> > : had a 28 year old son or daughter (can't remember)& he asked Nathan to
> > : please stop making a joke out of Autism, He also stated that he agreed
> > : with and praised Sharon's posts on Autism. Because of our past
> > : experiences with Sharon, and some of the resentments some people may
> > : have with Sharon, no one was honest in the entire situation imo. >>>>
> >
> > [negative statements about whether Sharon is sensitive intentionally deleted]
> >
> > Joey
>
> Your attitude and outlook as shown in the paragraph above is why you
> are unable to see beauty where before there may have only been ugly so
> to speak, imo. That is why a non-Eckist who is not wrapped up in your
> "Team Eckist a.r.e. reality" is able to see truth and beauty in her
> autism posts and agrees that it is wrong for Nathan to use something as
> serious as autism as a parody for his "jokes." Unlike, the one Eckist
> here who characterized those who asked Nathan to stop his so called
> jokes with a parody on Autism as being too "Politically Correct" the
> reality to those who suffer with this diesese and have children
> sufering with this diesese is that they struggle daily with its
> consequences. Would you think these jokes using autism as parody would
> be funny if you had a child with this diesese? My feeling given your "I
> don't give a bleeping word" comment is that you would punch Nathan
> right in the nose. And Joey, seperate her posts on Eckankar, because it
> is her posts on autism and her stand against these insensitive, cruel
> "jokes" that I was refering to and that you were unable to appreciate.
>
> Dave
> --
Michael Wallace
Frank H. Weeden <gun...@united.net> wrote in message
news:38F51D3B...@united.net...
> pop up, just when you're trying to find that crucial document.
> "Error 582: Cannot find "My Novel"
>
> ARGH!!!!!!! WHY THE HELL NOT??????!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
> @#*&@#$&%*&!!!!!!!!!!! <G>
You clearly need to install NT Frank <G>
Love
Michael
SantimVah
SantimVah
Hawk
automatically load startx"
Microsoft must die.
Bill Gates Cloner
> > Sounds like the advice you get from the Microsoft errors that
> > pop up, just when you're trying to find that crucial document.
> > "Error 582: Cannot find "My Novel"
> >
> > ARGH!!!!!!! WHY THE HELL NOT??????!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
> > @#*&@#$&%*&!!!!!!!!!!! <G>
>
> You clearly need to install NT Frank <G>
>
> Love
>
> Michael
>
>
--
Hu-for-U
Sharo...@playful.com
> 4. Since Eckists understand about Soul Travel, which I believe explains
> much of the supposedly inappropriate behavior of persons with autism
> (science-oriented experts describe persons with autism as being in their
> own world when I believe their souls are engaged in Soul Travel), and my
> son Ben has discussed through the use of Facilitated Communication, his
> own experiences of conscious Soul Travel, I had hoped that this newsgroup
> could be a safe place to discuss such matters. Such discussion could
> help me to help explain autism to others. My son states that, among many
> spiritual matters, his soul goes to the Highest Heaven and from there he
> relays spiritual messages. On the other hand, there are within my own
> religious group opponents of Facilitated Communication who are concerned
> that the Kabbalistic concepts of the Sitra Achra or Ruach Tuma might be
> involved (which could be translated as forms of Black Magic). However,
> the negative statements rampant on this newsgroup make me reluctant to do
> try to discuss these matters here. Do any of you have any suggestions of
> what I should do about finding a safe place to discuss these concepts?
I've come across a few places on the internet where you might
be able to discuss these things, Art, but haven't really
spent a lot of time in any one specific place. Recently I
came across an interesting one... http://www.realization.org,
and if I recall, there was a link there to the "non-duality
salon" which I haven't looked at for ages, but was quite
interesting. I saw something at the realization website
regarding a doctor who's doing something connected with
kundalini imbalance in schizophrenics or something, that I
would like to look into a bit more.
There *is* a lot of "negativity" here...because some former
cult members choose to speak out against what we learned was
*not* the "highest & only way to God".
Eckankar's big on "black magic", too. In fact, it says that
anything other than the cult is using black magic, and tells
people that unless they join the cult and buy the protection
of the cult's leader, they are indeed vulnerable to dream
attacks by bad entities, and could even die in their sleep
and doctors will think it's a heart attack! <gg>
But...if something's "good" then it's an "eckmaster" even if
no one knows it.
God speaks many languages...in fact, He created them!
For anyone who missed it, I hope they check out your website
at http://www.goldenfc.com
Hugs,
Sharon
--
http://members.delphi.com/sharon2000
New email address: sharo...@playful.com
Frank H. Weeden
Using a CAD station at work with NT, with
AutoCad XIII on it.
Oh boy, what a treat. NOT!!! I'm tempted to
crack open the CPU, dump a handful of M80's
in the damn thing, and then hit the deck.
KABOOM!!!! Ahhhh... stress relief... <G>
(And my socks STILL haven't returned!)
Frankster
Frank H. Weeden
I would personally be quite interested in reading about
your son's abilities. As for a public forum that is safe
for discussing such matters, the newsgroups are full of
people who exist for the sole purpose of persecuting others,
belittling the things they believe in, and being purposely
cruel.
You may write me privately if you wish, and I would be more
than happy to correspond with you.
In God's Love,
Frank
Michael Wallace
<gol...@shani.net> wrote in message news:8d6s28$u03$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> From Arthur Golden of Jerusalem Israel:
However, the negative
> statements rampant on this newsgroup make me reluctant to do try to
discuss
> these matters here. Do any of you have any suggestions of what I should
do
> about finding a safe place to discuss these concepts?
>
You are right about the negative statements at a.r.e. Aurthur...
I would recommend the "Hu Chat" list at www.onelist.com if you felt a need
to discuss this issue.
There are a number of views people might hold on Autism, ranging from
chemical imbalance at foetal stage to a Karmic Mudra, or even an over
developed Censor in the mind ... Personally I would not care to comment,
other than I have known Autistic Children who very much work consciously on
the Inner Planes.
The outer evidence is not necessarily the inner truth, in other words.
Much Love
Michael
Michael Wallace
Where's the Law of Gratitude?
Thank you Lord for the Internet... By which I can abuse and insult in ways
UNDREAMED of before PC's.
<G>
Love
Michael
Frank H. Weeden <gun...@united.net> wrote in message
news:38F7436A...@united.net...
Ken
<Sharo...@playful.com> wrote ...
:
: Eckankar's big on "black magic", too. In fact, it says that
: anything other than the cult is using black magic, and tells
: people that unless they join the cult and buy the protection
: of the cult's leader, they are indeed vulnerable to dream
: attacks by bad entities, and could even die in their sleep
: and doctors will think it's a heart attack! <gg>
Sharon, you're so full of it.
Ken
Sharo...@playful.com
Klemp in "The Living Word":
"A person who travels in his dream worlds is assured of the Mahanta's
protection, because heaven is a place of many dimensions. To learn about
them, read Paul Twitchell's The Tiger's Fang.
In those lower heavens that lie between earth and the true worlds of God,
there are shady people who like nothing better than to cheat or harm
innocent victims. In Africa, for instance, the power of black magic is very
strong. An African man reported a dream in which a group of men and women
took him to a high place. Unknown to him, these people were warlocks and
witches. When they reached the top of this place, which was a towering
seawall, a woman in the group told him to jump into the sea. But he knew
that all who jumped from that height never came back.
"Jump" she urged. As if hypnotized, he began to move toward the edge of
the wall. At that moment, the Mahanta appeared. The group vanished. The
master smiled and patted the dreamer on his shoulder; then the dreamer
awoke.
What few would recognize is that the Mahanta prevented the dreamer's death.
It often happens that a dreamer, who does not have the protection of the
Mahanta, simply dies in his sleep. The doctor writes off the cause as
heart failure or some other physical condition. Often as not, however, the
dreamer had wandered beyond the safe limits of his inner world and met a
psychic criminal, who was responsible for his death. An experience that
did not have to be, had he known of the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."
Mahavahana
David Lane's research on Eckankar:
http://www.iguild.com/homes/eckcult
Ken, don't they have Klemp's books where you live??
Windy
>
> <Sharo...@playful.com> wrote ...
> :
> : Eckankar's big on "black magic", too. In fact, it says that
> : anything other than the cult is using black magic, and tells
> : people that unless they join the cult and buy the protection
> : of the cult's leader, they are indeed vulnerable to dream
> : attacks by bad entities, and could even die in their sleep
> : and doctors will think it's a heart attack! <gg>
>
> Sharon, you're so full of it.
>
> Ken
Sharon is so full of it that it oozing out of her pores! Never seen so
many black heads! YUK!
Frank H. Weeden
Gosh... From here, it looked like a cottage cheese farm... Guess I need
to get some glasses! (Or maybe not!) LOL
Anne
"Mahavahana" <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote:
>
>Here's the equation:
>
>
>discourses/yearly membership/initiations x protection of the
Mahanta
>---------------------------------------------------------
> access to fast path to Sugmad out of lower planes
>
>= Eckankar
>
Yes, MV that is the equation for the outer works of Eckankar, one
of many vehicles, path, religions to the understanding of
unconditional/divine love. What about what is actually in the
vehicle, where is the equation for divine love, for the ECK, the
reason we use an outer vehicle at all. Once we learn what is on
the Inner, we know that any path could have gotten us there. And
that all worldly vehicles fade, grow old and become something
else. Nothing is new here, it was never meant to be new. It was
meant to open the heart to what is already there. Is this the
same for you?
Anne
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Windy
Mahavahana wrote in message ...
>Ken? Have you ever read *any* of Harold's books?
>
>
>David Lane's research on Eckankar:
>http://www.iguild.com/homes/eckcult
>
>
>
>
>On 15 Apr 2000 14:46:26 GMT Sharo...@playful.com wrote:
>> > <Sharo...@playful.com> wrote ...
>> > :
>> > : Eckankar's big on "black magic", too. In fact, it says
that
>> > : anything other than the cult is using black magic, and
tells
>> > : people that unless they join the cult and buy the
protection
>> > : of the cult's leader, they are indeed vulnerable to dream
>> > : attacks by bad entities, and could even die in their sleep
>> > : and doctors will think it's a heart attack! <gg>
>> >
>> > Sharon, you're so full of it.
>> >
>> > Ken
>>
Sharo...@playful.com
> Ken wrote:
> >
> > <Sharo...@playful.com> wrote ...
> > :
> > : Eckankar's big on "black magic", too. In fact, it says
> > : that anything other than the cult is using black magic,
> > : and tells people that unless they join the cult and buy
> > : the protection of the cult's leader, they are indeed
> > : vulnerable to dream attacks by bad entities, and could
> > : even die in their sleep and doctors will think it's a
> > : heart attack! <gg>
> >
> > Sharon, you're so full of it.
> >
> > Ken
>
> many black heads! YUK!
Uh, Rita, sorry...but I'm just "spreading the Truth"
according to Harold Klemp. You know...Harold? That
guy in MN who's in charge of ECKANKAR and the WHOLE
UNIVERSE?? Harold says without HIS protection, you can
die in your sleep because of black magic. From Living
Word (that's Harold, BTW) Book 2:
A person who travels in his dream worlds is assured of the Mahanta's
protection, because heaven is a place of many dimensions. To learn about
them, read Paul Twitchell's The Tiger's Fang.
In those lower heavens that lie between earth and the true worlds of God,
there are shady people who like nothing better than to cheat or harm
innocent victims. In Africa, for instance, the power of black magic is very
strong. An African man reported a dream in which a group of men and women
took him to a high place. Unknown to him, these people were warlocks and
witches. When they reached the top of this place, which was a towering
seawall, a woman in the group told him to jump into the sea. But he knew
that all who jumped from that height never came back.
"Jump" she urged. As if hypnotized, he began to move toward the edge of
the wall. At that moment, the Mahanta appeared. The group vanished. The
master smiled and patted the dreamer on his shoulder; then the dreamer
awoke.
What few would recognize is that the Mahanta prevented the dreamer's death.
It often happens that a dreamer, who does not have the protection of the
Mahanta, simply dies in his sleep. The doctor writes off the cause as
heart failure or some other physical condition. Often as not, however, the
dreamer had wandered beyond the safe limits of his inner world and met a
psychic criminal, who was responsible for his death. An experience that
did not have to be, had he known of the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master."
If you're a bit unsure about the teachings of your "religion",
Rita, you might want to check out
http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors.
Lots of eckquotes there. If you add /masterlie.html and/or
/godman.html to the above URL, it'll explain Harold to you...
Harold doesn't lie, does he?
Whether or not I'm full of it and have blackheads is irrelevant.
Sharon
Ken
Mahavahana <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote ...
:
: > > <Sharo...@playful.com> wrote ...
: > > :
: > > : Eckankar's big on "black magic", too. In fact, it says that
: > > : anything other than the cult is using black magic, and tells
: > > : people that unless they join the cult and buy the protection
: > > : of the cult's leader, they are indeed vulnerable to dream
: > > : attacks by bad entities, and could even die in their sleep
: > > : and doctors will think it's a heart attack! <gg>
"and tells people that unless they join the cult and buy the protection of the
cult's leader"
"Buy Protection"?
<lol>
Whatever.
Ken
Sharo...@playful.com
> Windy wrote:
> >
> > Ken wrote:
> > >
> > > <Sharo...@playful.com> wrote ...
> > > :
> > > : Eckankar's big on "black magic", too. In fact, it says
> > > : that anything other than the cult is using black magic,
> > > : and tells people that unless they join the cult and buy
> > > : the protection of the cult's leader, they are indeed
> > > : vulnerable to dream attacks by bad entities, and could
> > > : even die in their sleep and doctors will think it's a
> > > : heart attack! <gg>
> > >
> > >
> > > Ken
> >
> > Sharon is so full of it that it oozing out of her pores! Never seen so
> > many black heads! YUK!
>
> to get some glasses! (Or maybe not!) LOL
More from the Klempster:
From "The Living Word", Harold Klemp, 1989...
Preface: "This book is a collection of my articles in the Mystic World and
the ECK Mata Journal from 1982-88. From the very first, I envisioned these
articles compiled in a single place...if the reader uncovers only a tenth
of the love within these pages, he will be trans- formed into a nobler
state of being, many times over."
From Chapter 21: Methods of the Black Magician
"A black magician has a degree of knowledge as to how invisible energies
split from the Audible Life Current, but he bends them toward darkness and
destruction.
(It's hilarious...after Harold dumped Darwin Gross, *his* Living
ECK Master, Harji & Darji both accused each other of black
magic. Eckists were instructed by Harold to get anything
connected with Darwin out of their homes.)
With power to invade dreams, he can bring terror through nightmares. The
dreamer quakes, wondering what has suddenly unbalanced the delicate scale
of his affairs. Monsters appear, forces tear at the Astral body, and
strange awful phenomena confront him.
(You know, I like monsters! They're pretty straightforward.
It's guys in burgundy robes (or ruby-red, if the burgundy
one's at the cleaner's) who scare me!! <ggg>
Fear grows, and with it, the disarming influence of the magician steals
over the victim. In the initial phase he scatters the individual's
serenity so as to control the mind. Craving raw power, the magician cares
not a whit for Soul's freedom.
(Well, you have total freedom in the cult, as long as you send
in your annual protection money...whoops, I mean "donation.")
A trick used to breach a victim's psychic home is done through a dream
where the victim is told to expect a letter from the magician. When he
opens the envelope, a posthypnotic suggestion is triggered that enforces
the black magician's original dream contact. The individual is duped and
unknowingly gives up a little corner of himself to an outside force that is
not at all concerned about his welfare.
(Hmmmm...eckists look forward to getting those monthly discourses,
except now it's once a year posthypnotic reinforcement of the
original dream contact.)
The black magician creeps into his prey's life, step-by-step. Every
emotional trick is used to bind the two ever more closely together.
(Yeah...Twitch wrote about "the oldest trick" ...and used
it!)
To survive a psychic attack may take several approaches: (1) a conscious
closing of the emotional door against the intruder. Any photos, as well as
memorabilia, of a disruptive personality must be put out of the house. (2)
The constant chanting of HU or the initiate's personal word. (3) An actual
fight on the inner planes whereby the trespasser is driven off by martial
arts of some weapon at hand. (4) getting plenty of rest each night.
Yep...#1 is what Harji told everyone to do with Darji's stuff!!
#2, well...yeah, those self-hypnotic spex are a big thing.
3. Hey...that's what Harold did in the mental hospital, and the
haunted European hotel!!!
4. How can you rest with all that fighting on the "inner planes"?
Harold checked out of the haunted hotel. I guess he was too
tired to do any good in freeing those trapped souls...
The old law of protection is this: "Nothing can hurt us unless we
ourselves allow it!"
Yep...like a vampire needs permission. So does Harold. They
do that at eck intros...tell innocent newbies to start out by
inviting Harold into their consciousness and dreams.
People under psychic attack must make a decision whether to follow the Lord
of Light and Sound, or the lord of darkness. Hesitation creates a split
current of energy within one. I've had reports of people who suffered
heart attacks because they let their emotions pull them in two different
directions at the same time. Forgo the worship of Moloch. The price is
too dear.
The old heart attack threat again!!
That's what happened to Twitch, you know. Except he was awake.
He had company that night.
This technique will bar a black magician from your worlds: Shut your eyes
at bedtime and see yourself standing before a gigantic mountain of light
from whence flows the most enchanting melody of the Audible Life Stream.
Burning sage helps too, I've heard.
Now visualize yourself walking up the sidewalk to a huge door that guards
an entrance into the side of the mountain. The door's mighty construction
can withstand a thermonuclear blast. Enter and pull the door shut behind
you. Notice how easily it swings, despite its great height and massive
construction. With the door shut and you safely inside the shlter, lock
the door securely, Snap the padlock, set the dead bolt, drop the bar into
place--then turn around and walk directly into the worlds of Light and
Sound.
Don't forget to take your computer with you, so you can do
your eckmissionary work unhindered by those pesky entities
who reach out of the monitor and GRAB YOU!!!
In extreme cases it is perfectly all right to create several outer chambers
inside the entrance. Each chamber is likewise protected by an enormous
door; all are secured against the night.
Be aware of one thing: The door of protection is made from the substance of
ECK itself. Nothing can get through IT!!!
The Living ECK master can help you combat the dark force by use of the
mighty Sword of the SUGMAD--but only if you listen.
And if the Sword of the SUGMAD doesn't work, Nathan's got
one of those tin-foil hats with pipe-cleaner antennae!
Harold just stays away from computers.
Mahavahana
wrote:
>
> Mahavahana <Mahav...@calistoga.com> wrote ...
> :
> : > > <Sharo...@playful.com> wrote ...
> : > > :
> : > > : Eckankar's big on "black magic", too. In fact, it says that
> : > > : anything other than the cult is using black magic, and tells
> : > > : people that unless they join the cult and buy the protection
> : > > : of the cult's leader, they are indeed vulnerable to dream
> : > > : attacks by bad entities, and could even die in their sleep
> : > > : and doctors will think it's a heart attack! <gg>
>
>
>
>
> "and tells people that unless they join the cult and buy the protection of the
>
> "Buy Protection"?
>
> <lol>
>
> Whatever.
>
>
> Ken
>
>
>
>
Here's the equation:
discourses/yearly membership/initiations x protection of the Mahanta
---------------------------------------------------------
access to fast path to Sugmad out of lower planes
= Eckankar
David Lane's research on Eckankar:
http://www.iguild.com/homes/eckcult
Hawk
the foolish,rewrite history,interpret the intentions,edit the Eck
books,run the organization,establish a strong personal identity,prove
your worth,take casual liberties with personal meaning?
Man,you're one busy beaver.<VBG>
luv, Hawk
> Here's the equation:
>
> discourses/yearly membership/initiations x protection of the Mahanta
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> access to fast path to Sugmad out of lower planes
>
> = Eckankar
>
> David Lane's research on Eckankar:
> http://www.iguild.com/homes/eckcult
>
> --
> Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
> Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
>
>
--
Hu-for-U