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Rebazar talks... Rebazar was referring ...the dialogue between Rebazar Tarzs and Paul ... Rebazar outlines, etc.
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Etznab
Jul 6, 2015, 10:26:13 PM7/6/15
to
This is from an old a.r.e. post (emphasis by Sean).
"In the first few pages, Rebazar TALKS interchangeably of the SUGMAD (God) and the ECK (Holy Spirit). We know the difference between the Source of all life, and ITS voice.
"Rebazar WAS referring to the Divine Principle that created our consciousness, and how IT relates to us here and now.
"Heady reading, the DIALOGUE between Rebazar Tarzs and Paul is best read a little at a time. One may then REFLECT upon the statements that seem to be OBSCURE.
"But EVERY WORD in this CONVERSATION is important, for REBAZAR outlines the struggles one faces when he comes into the full scope of God Realization.
"This is VITAL KNOWLEDGE for all who are destined to enter into God Consciousness and survive on earth as Co-workers with God."
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups&hl=en#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/CORRECT$20LETTER$20OF$20TRUTH$20INTRODUCTION$20BY$20HAROLD$20KLEMP$20THE$20KEY$20TO$20ECKANKAR/alt.religion.eckankar/nD2iq5AOBzc/vlRM7X8Eke8J
It looks to me like Harold Klemp described some roles of Rebazar Tarzs. Does anybody else see it this way?
I say let's study and research this. Have a mature conversation about it. And about the "correct letter of truth".
"In the first few pages, Rebazar TALKS interchangeably of the SUGMAD (God) and the ECK (Holy Spirit). We know the difference between the Source of all life, and ITS voice.
"Rebazar WAS referring to the Divine Principle that created our consciousness, and how IT relates to us here and now.
"Heady reading, the DIALOGUE between Rebazar Tarzs and Paul is best read a little at a time. One may then REFLECT upon the statements that seem to be OBSCURE.
"But EVERY WORD in this CONVERSATION is important, for REBAZAR outlines the struggles one faces when he comes into the full scope of God Realization.
"This is VITAL KNOWLEDGE for all who are destined to enter into God Consciousness and survive on earth as Co-workers with God."
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups&hl=en#!searchin/alt.religion.eckankar/CORRECT$20LETTER$20OF$20TRUTH$20INTRODUCTION$20BY$20HAROLD$20KLEMP$20THE$20KEY$20TO$20ECKANKAR/alt.religion.eckankar/nD2iq5AOBzc/vlRM7X8Eke8J
It looks to me like Harold Klemp described some roles of Rebazar Tarzs. Does anybody else see it this way?
I say let's study and research this. Have a mature conversation about it. And about the "correct letter of truth".
Etznab
Jul 6, 2015, 10:47:07 PM7/6/15
to
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the first step on the Way.
"The second, and more important step, is to be able to receive truth from within, to be receptive and responsive to the truth that wells up in us. Then we do not think, read, or hear truth with the mind: We are becoming aware of the impartation of the Word of God from within because the inner ear and the inner eye have been developed through our knowing the letter of truth and dwelling on it.
[...]
"The second step, which leads to a state of consciousness where we are receptive and responsive to the still small voice, cannot be taken, however, unless the first step has been mastered, that is, knowing the letter of truth. All the years that a person has spent in reading truth, hearing truth, thinking truth, attending church services, lectures, or classes are fruitful in leading him to that point where inspiration flows from within his own being. This inspiration, however, usually comes only after a thorough grounding in the letter of truth.
Jesus tells us to let "my words abide in you. ... Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit."
[See pp. 19-26]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/82916572/Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmith
***
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God.
"The second step cannot be taken unless the first step has been mastered, that is, knowing the letter of truth. All the years we spend in reading truth, attending services, lectures, and classes are fruitful in leading us to that point where inspiration flows from within our own being. This inspiration, however, usually comes only after a thorough grounding in the letter of truth.
"Yaubl Sacabi told me long ago, 'Let my spirit dwell in you. And so shall the SUGMAD be exalted so that you will bear the harvest of good deeds.' "
Based on: Rebazar Tarzs in: The Key to ECKANKAR, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1968, 1985 - ECKANKAR, Fifth Printing - 2003, pp. 39-42.
*********
The foregoing was but a small fraction of the text from both sources.
Harold said something about "obscure" ... What was that exactly?
"Heady reading, the dialogue between Rebazar Tarzs and Paul is best read a little at a time. One may then reflect upon the statements that seem to be obscure."
O.K. So I for one say let's do. A little at a time. Baby steps ...
Message has been deleted
Etznab
Jul 8, 2015, 8:34:59 AM7/8/15
to
On Monday, July 6, 2015 at 9:48:07 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> First one needs to do away with sean's "framing" of it all, that is manipulative and is not at all an honest inquiry...the entire question loses value because of his doing that...
Harold Klemp, the current leader of Eckankar - in his "Introduction" for The Key to ECKANKAR - begins thus:
"First printed in 1968, The Key to ECKANKAR was one of the early books that introduced people to that wonderful Tibetan ECK Master, Rebazar Tarzs. His conversation with Paul is a historical document that reflects Paul Twitchell's state of consciousness at that time."
Based on" The Key to ECKANKAR, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1968, 1985
ECKANKAR, Fifth Printing - 2003, p. 1.
That was a quote from the first paragraph of Introduction section. In paragraph three Harold Klemp writes again about Rebazar Tarzs.
"In the first few pages, Rebazar talks interchangeably of the SUGMAD (God) and the ECK (Holy Spirit). We know the difference between the Source of all life, and ITS voice. Rebazar was referring to the Divine principle that created our consciousness, and how it relates to us here and now."
Based on" The Key to ECKANKAR, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1968, 1985
ECKANKAR, Fifth Printing - 2003, p. 1.
Harold Klemp, the current leader of Eckankar - in his "Introduction" for The Key to ECKANKAR - begins thus:
"First printed in 1968, The Key to ECKANKAR was one of the early books that introduced people to that wonderful Tibetan ECK Master, Rebazar Tarzs. His conversation with Paul is a historical document that reflects Paul Twitchell's state of consciousness at that time."
Based on" The Key to ECKANKAR, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1968, 1985
ECKANKAR, Fifth Printing - 2003, p. 1.
That was a quote from the first paragraph of Introduction section. In paragraph three Harold Klemp writes again about Rebazar Tarzs.
"In the first few pages, Rebazar talks interchangeably of the SUGMAD (God) and the ECK (Holy Spirit). We know the difference between the Source of all life, and ITS voice. Rebazar was referring to the Divine principle that created our consciousness, and how it relates to us here and now."
Based on" The Key to ECKANKAR, by Paul Twitchell, Copyright 1968, 1985
ECKANKAR, Fifth Printing - 2003, p. 1.
Message has been deleted
Etznab
Jul 8, 2015, 8:27:32 PM7/8/15
to
On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 7:09:16 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> None of this is relevant to him being an actual entity or being a fictional one.
"None of this is relevant to him being an actual entity or being a fictional one."
According to one person. Kinpa.
If there are others, then I think you have failed to prove that they exist. I mean, all of the others you claim to speak for.
For example, you wrote: "... then that is a personal matter that has nothing to do wit myself or any of the others I am speaking for. [...] Where are all of these others? They do not wish to speak to you, as I have told you MANY times before! What do you not understand about that? It is a very simple concept!"
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.eckankar/0hcxVlGQVu8/cgEjTMIVE-AJ
Yes. All of the and these others you claim to speak for. I challenge you to prove that they exist, or just be honest and qualify your posts with "In my opinion ..." Where you are just one person trying to appear like many.
"None of this is relevant to him being an actual entity or being a fictional one."
According to one person. Kinpa.
If there are others, then I think you have failed to prove that they exist. I mean, all of the others you claim to speak for.
For example, you wrote: "... then that is a personal matter that has nothing to do wit myself or any of the others I am speaking for. [...] Where are all of these others? They do not wish to speak to you, as I have told you MANY times before! What do you not understand about that? It is a very simple concept!"
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.religion.eckankar/0hcxVlGQVu8/cgEjTMIVE-AJ
Yes. All of the and these others you claim to speak for. I challenge you to prove that they exist, or just be honest and qualify your posts with "In my opinion ..." Where you are just one person trying to appear like many.
Kinpa
Jul 8, 2015, 9:33:50 PM7/8/15
to
Etznab
Jul 8, 2015, 10:03:33 PM7/8/15
to
Taunting, ridiculing, lying and personal attacks are all documented here at a.r.e. Bold-faced lies repeated by you, along with name calling and large caps. At the same time you point out how others call names, etc.
Count the number of times where you called Sean a different name. Go to the archives and it will be easy for you. Seanella isn't his name, but you know that and maybe you can try to justify your actions as ridicule and taunting. Also, you have called Sean a drunk; as well as others.
I think you are not fooling anybody, because your words are adding up here at a.r.e. and they clearly show how you taunt and ridicule other people personally and by posting repeated lies about them.
Digging the hole deeper you are?
Because others do it? This is your justification for the negative energies sent to others on this discussion board through your words? Just like everybody plagiarizes, and then you make a big deal about it when your nemesis Sean does it?
My point days ago when I illustrated a torrent of your nasty words was how you came into this group taunting and ridiculing, and as if you were justified in doing it. As if you had the right to call names, tell lies and then go and deny responsibility. Yeah, a real piece of work you are.
Message has been deleted
Etznab
Jul 8, 2015, 11:24:45 PM7/8/15
to
On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 10:03:39 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I think you haven't the guts to even consider that anything I say is actually true...none of it has ANYTHING to do with any ECK Masters, and, as I stated elsewhere, plagiarism is a long dead issue that only YOU and your buddy care about, the rest of the world HAS moved on! Paul Twitchell left the physical plane! Still going to claim tat you are a current ECKist? You appear to be quite the anti-ECKist if anything! All due to your own words!
>
> That is YOUR opinion.....however, you and sean do the exact same thing, so don't try to double talk your way out of it, it won't work this time...
>
> I don't need to justify anything, I did it because I chose to! It's a VERY simple thing! And you seem to be ignoring how many times,on a daily basis, he has called names lol...talk about being in denial....
> I was never trying to fool anyone, you flatter yourself once again by assuming that I care that much about anything you think...and prove that anything I have posted is a lie...until you do, eat your own words Mr. Double-standard!
> There IS no hole! Big surprise eh? Or do you actually believe that your friend has a lawyer and is going to attempt a lawsuit? Because that will never happen, just another lie just like the one where he claimed to have sued Gloria and David Lane! THAT NEVER HAPPENED! Court records prove this! SHE called the police against HIM! He flat out lied about it!
>
> There are no negative energies sent anywhere by me, that is merely your opinion...and sean is hardly my nemesis, he is more of a stalker, so stop flattering him.....I have never plagiarized, so there goes your idea that "everyone plagiarizes" , NOT TRUE!
>
> I need no justification, and don't try flattering me either! You claim responsibilities where none exist, and when challenged to prove it you ALWAYS use the SAME "evidence" plagiarized words put by Paul Twitchell ONLY, into ECK Master's mouths in his book! That proves not one thing other than plagiarism! You refusal to accept that as true is a delusion! Everything you consider to be proof is based off of an assumption and nothing else! Why do you continually refuse to admit that bit of common sense? Because you are so respectable? NOT!
In his Introduction for Fourth Printing (1985) of The Key to Eckankar, Harold Klemp referenced Rebazar Tarzs. Harold wrote: [...] Rebazar Tarzs says that the individual first has to get "the correct letter of truth" before he can live in the spirit of truth. He tells how this is done. [... .]
(See full Introduction for more insights and context.)
http://tinyurl.com/o2ozxuo
The Key to Eckankar section about "correct letter of truth" is one that very closely resembles the writings in Joel S. Goldsmith's book, Practicing the Presence of God - 1958 Iow, the words "correct letter of truth" appeared years before The Key to Eckankar book came out in 1968.
Some sample quotes (from a much larger section of correspondences covering over a dozen paragraphs in consecutive order) illustrating similarity between the writings of Joel S. Goldsmith and the words of Paul Twitchell and Rebazar Tarzs.
***
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the first step on the Way."
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
[Note: Goldsmith says: "Thus we learn to abide in the Word." where Eckankar says: "We learn to abide in the world ... ." Typo???]
***
"Yaubl Sacabi told me long ago, 'Let my spirit dwell in you. And so shall the SUGMAD be exalted so that you will bear the harvest of good deeds.'
"To live in this truth, to abide in the Word, is to bear the harvest of all things in the richest manner: that is, to live harmoniously in the spiritual senses. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in It, and let It live in us, we become as the branch of a tree that is cut off and withers away."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
Jesus tells us to let "my words abide in you. ... Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit." To live in that truth, to abide in that Word, is to bear fruit richly, that is, to live harmoniously, spiritual lives. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in it, and let it abide in us, we become as branches that are cut off and wither. [...]
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
***
"How can we live in the Word if we do not know It? We must know the Truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a principle with which to work, and let us stand on this principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us is realized. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of the SUGMAD and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God can achieve that realization - the grace of God will guarantee it."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
[...] How can we abide in this Word if we do not know it? We must know the truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a specific principle with which to work and let us stand on that principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us, which is realization. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of God and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God will guarantee it."
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
[Note: All illustrations here should be checked for typos.]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/218780789/82916572-Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmith-1
*********
The official Eckankar website has a link about Rebazar Tarzs.
http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html
This link is response to a frequently asked question.
Begin quote ...
Do the ECK Masters really exist?
The ECK Masters are real.
People from all over the world and from all walks of life have had personal experiences with the ECK Masters years before Paul Twitchell brought them to the public eye.
Many people who have never heard of Eckankar recognize ECK Masters from their dreams and other encounters.
Here on the Eckankar Web site, you can read some of these stories and see pictures of some of these ECK Masters.
Better yet, meet them for yourself. That's the real proof for any spiritual seeker.
The book Those Wonderful ECK Masters (link opens in a new window) gives spiritual exercises to help you receive personal guidance from an ECK Master.
... end quote.
http://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#eckmasters
More comments:
From at least the 1970s - over 40 years ago - Eckankar has received feedback about examples of dubious biographical information surrounding what so many "Eck Masters" reportedly said, or wrote; along with a growing number of plagiarism examples and/or verbatim matches between the Eckankar writings and the writings of other gurus and New Age authors, etc.
HOWEVER, when historical evidence of Eckankar masters is presented in story form, or according to what the Eckankar founder wrote, WHERE are all the examples of paraphrase and plagiarism showing convincing evidence for the very real prospect that Paul Twitchell, or somebody, took from the writings of other authors and used them like a literary device to animate a historical record of Eckankar masters?
It appears to me that a propaganda campaign has been carried forward for a good number of years in which stories that support the belief of "real" Eck masters are promoted, whereas stories and black and white evidence to the contrary is NOT so much promoted.
*********
Quoting from the Eckankar website again:
"The ECK teachings are based on compassion, respect, personal responsibility, and giving others freedom. It is against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on others or to hold anyone to a spiritual path. [... .]"
http://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#cult
>
> I think you haven't the guts to even consider that anything I say is actually true...none of it has ANYTHING to do with any ECK Masters, and, as I stated elsewhere, plagiarism is a long dead issue that only YOU and your buddy care about, the rest of the world HAS moved on! Paul Twitchell left the physical plane! Still going to claim tat you are a current ECKist? You appear to be quite the anti-ECKist if anything! All due to your own words!
>
>
>
>
> > Taunting, ridiculing, lying and personal attacks are all documented here at a.r.e. Bold-faced lies repeated by you, along with name calling and large caps. At the same time you point out how others call names, etc.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> > Taunting, ridiculing, lying and personal attacks are all documented here at a.r.e. Bold-faced lies repeated by you, along with name calling and large caps. At the same time you point out how others call names, etc.
>
> That is YOUR opinion.....however, you and sean do the exact same thing, so don't try to double talk your way out of it, it won't work this time...
>
>
>
>
> > Count the number of times where you called Sean a different name. Go to the archives and it will be easy for you. Seanella isn't his name, but you know that and maybe you can try to justify your actions as ridicule and taunting. Also, you have called Sean a drunk; as well as others.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> > Count the number of times where you called Sean a different name. Go to the archives and it will be easy for you. Seanella isn't his name, but you know that and maybe you can try to justify your actions as ridicule and taunting. Also, you have called Sean a drunk; as well as others.
>
> I don't need to justify anything, I did it because I chose to! It's a VERY simple thing! And you seem to be ignoring how many times,on a daily basis, he has called names lol...talk about being in denial....
>
>
>
>
> > I think you are not fooling anybody, because your words are adding up here at a.r.e. and they clearly show how you taunt and ridicule other people personally and by posting repeated lies about them.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> > I think you are not fooling anybody, because your words are adding up here at a.r.e. and they clearly show how you taunt and ridicule other people personally and by posting repeated lies about them.
> I was never trying to fool anyone, you flatter yourself once again by assuming that I care that much about anything you think...and prove that anything I have posted is a lie...until you do, eat your own words Mr. Double-standard!
>
>
>
>
> > Digging the hole deeper you are?
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> > Digging the hole deeper you are?
> There IS no hole! Big surprise eh? Or do you actually believe that your friend has a lawyer and is going to attempt a lawsuit? Because that will never happen, just another lie just like the one where he claimed to have sued Gloria and David Lane! THAT NEVER HAPPENED! Court records prove this! SHE called the police against HIM! He flat out lied about it!
>
>
>
> > Because others do it? This is your justification for the negative energies sent to others on this discussion board through your words? Just like everybody plagiarizes, and then you make a big deal about it when your nemesis Sean does it?
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> > Because others do it? This is your justification for the negative energies sent to others on this discussion board through your words? Just like everybody plagiarizes, and then you make a big deal about it when your nemesis Sean does it?
>
> There are no negative energies sent anywhere by me, that is merely your opinion...and sean is hardly my nemesis, he is more of a stalker, so stop flattering him.....I have never plagiarized, so there goes your idea that "everyone plagiarizes" , NOT TRUE!
>
>
>
> > My point days ago when I illustrated a torrent of your nasty words was how you came into this group taunting and ridiculing, and as if you were justified in doing it. As if you had the right to call names, tell lies and then go and deny responsibility. Yeah, a real piece of work you are.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> > My point days ago when I illustrated a torrent of your nasty words was how you came into this group taunting and ridiculing, and as if you were justified in doing it. As if you had the right to call names, tell lies and then go and deny responsibility. Yeah, a real piece of work you are.
>
> I need no justification, and don't try flattering me either! You claim responsibilities where none exist, and when challenged to prove it you ALWAYS use the SAME "evidence" plagiarized words put by Paul Twitchell ONLY, into ECK Master's mouths in his book! That proves not one thing other than plagiarism! You refusal to accept that as true is a delusion! Everything you consider to be proof is based off of an assumption and nothing else! Why do you continually refuse to admit that bit of common sense? Because you are so respectable? NOT!
In his Introduction for Fourth Printing (1985) of The Key to Eckankar, Harold Klemp referenced Rebazar Tarzs. Harold wrote: [...] Rebazar Tarzs says that the individual first has to get "the correct letter of truth" before he can live in the spirit of truth. He tells how this is done. [... .]
(See full Introduction for more insights and context.)
http://tinyurl.com/o2ozxuo
The Key to Eckankar section about "correct letter of truth" is one that very closely resembles the writings in Joel S. Goldsmith's book, Practicing the Presence of God - 1958 Iow, the words "correct letter of truth" appeared years before The Key to Eckankar book came out in 1968.
Some sample quotes (from a much larger section of correspondences covering over a dozen paragraphs in consecutive order) illustrating similarity between the writings of Joel S. Goldsmith and the words of Paul Twitchell and Rebazar Tarzs.
***
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the first step on the Way."
[Note: Goldsmith says: "Thus we learn to abide in the Word." where Eckankar says: "We learn to abide in the world ... ." Typo???]
***
"Yaubl Sacabi told me long ago, 'Let my spirit dwell in you. And so shall the SUGMAD be exalted so that you will bear the harvest of good deeds.'
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
Jesus tells us to let "my words abide in you. ... Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit." To live in that truth, to abide in that Word, is to bear fruit richly, that is, to live harmoniously, spiritual lives. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in it, and let it abide in us, we become as branches that are cut off and wither. [...]
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
***
"How can we live in the Word if we do not know It? We must know the Truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a principle with which to work, and let us stand on this principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us is realized. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of the SUGMAD and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God can achieve that realization - the grace of God will guarantee it."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
[...] How can we abide in this Word if we do not know it? We must know the truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a specific principle with which to work and let us stand on that principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us, which is realization. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of God and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God will guarantee it."
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
[Note: All illustrations here should be checked for typos.]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/218780789/82916572-Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmith-1
*********
The official Eckankar website has a link about Rebazar Tarzs.
http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Rebazar/index.html
This link is response to a frequently asked question.
Begin quote ...
Do the ECK Masters really exist?
The ECK Masters are real.
People from all over the world and from all walks of life have had personal experiences with the ECK Masters years before Paul Twitchell brought them to the public eye.
Many people who have never heard of Eckankar recognize ECK Masters from their dreams and other encounters.
Here on the Eckankar Web site, you can read some of these stories and see pictures of some of these ECK Masters.
Better yet, meet them for yourself. That's the real proof for any spiritual seeker.
The book Those Wonderful ECK Masters (link opens in a new window) gives spiritual exercises to help you receive personal guidance from an ECK Master.
... end quote.
http://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#eckmasters
More comments:
From at least the 1970s - over 40 years ago - Eckankar has received feedback about examples of dubious biographical information surrounding what so many "Eck Masters" reportedly said, or wrote; along with a growing number of plagiarism examples and/or verbatim matches between the Eckankar writings and the writings of other gurus and New Age authors, etc.
HOWEVER, when historical evidence of Eckankar masters is presented in story form, or according to what the Eckankar founder wrote, WHERE are all the examples of paraphrase and plagiarism showing convincing evidence for the very real prospect that Paul Twitchell, or somebody, took from the writings of other authors and used them like a literary device to animate a historical record of Eckankar masters?
It appears to me that a propaganda campaign has been carried forward for a good number of years in which stories that support the belief of "real" Eck masters are promoted, whereas stories and black and white evidence to the contrary is NOT so much promoted.
*********
Quoting from the Eckankar website again:
"The ECK teachings are based on compassion, respect, personal responsibility, and giving others freedom. It is against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on others or to hold anyone to a spiritual path. [... .]"
http://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#cult
Henosis Sage
Jul 9, 2015, 12:48:35 AM7/9/15
to
re "I challenge you to prove that they exist," one could ask Loni Haas ( lonihaas @ cs.com ) .... the owner of the light force network
website or go to the http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/
make a New Account
http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/user/register
You can then send a question or suggestion direct to Loni there, aka LOGOS
Or post a message in a discussion, or make a special blog post about
"plagiarism in spiritual writings" and find out what people really believe
and feel about it.
Seems to be that 99.9% of postings there are just a copy/paste of something,
with a link from where they got it from, it's pretty quiet place. Lots of
pretty pictures though. One could start talking about the plagiarisms in
Blavatsky's writings and translations... and others. PT getting banned from
Orion.
The need for Twitchell to use "pseudonyms" in mags, newspapers etc to promote
himself in 1968 thru 71 to get around advertising rules/costs/bans, endless
media releases, being a prophecy seer for Steiger of some quite ludicrous
stuff .... and then there's lots of PT examples of copying.
for example a person could ask why a wiser person hasn't already ...
- gone to a.r.e. on google groups to either confirm or deny that Matt Sharpe is the OWNER of the LFN website or not!
- publicly distance themselves from Matt Sharpe's false claims about HIS website and the 1400 people he claims SUPPORT HIS VIEWS
- publicly distance themselves and their own "beliefs in Eckankar" from the outlandish claims of Matt Sharpe having 20 Sharmans chatting with Matt every day, HOW good he is at "remote viewing" when clearly he cannot!
- publicly state that they do not support or condone it the insulting lies told about others and the year long personal intimidation, demands, false accusations on a.r.e.
- would say they do not control Mr. Sharpe or what he thinks, does, or says elsewhere
- would publicly state do not condone or agree with false defamatory mythical stories being made up about other people BY Matt Sharpe
- would publicly state that you do not condone the hosting of COPYRIGHT Infringing files anywhere on LFN
- would publicly state that PIRATED COPIES of Eckankar books that were hosted have now been REMOVED and that will not happen again.
- would publicly state that published COPIES of chapters, articles and letters COPYRIGHT by ECKANKAR will be removed asap
- would publicly state that other Publishers Copyright material hosted on your website is being removed as well.
Yes one could say that kind of thing and anything else that is actually TRUE and ACCURATE - that specifically:
- MATT SHARPE does NOT represent the LFN website in any way.
- MATT SHARPE does NOT represent the views, opinions, and beliefs OF ANY MEMBER
of the LFN website
- MATT SHARPE has been TOLD DIRECTLY that he is to STOP Misrepresenting himself
and the "words" of others AS IF he can speak for anyone other than HIMSELF.
Someone might even utter the words that : "I do not support or condone it."
LOOK HERE at Matts Posts - the litany of hundreds of intentional personal
HARASSMENT BULLYING & STALKING & ABUSIVE COMMENTS & LIES & DEFAMATION WHILE
HE HAS BEEN PUBLICLY PRESENTING HIMSELF AS THE OWNER OF LFN - his SITE, his
BLOG, his LFN WEBSITE, and his 1451 members who support him here on a.r.e.
Dec 98, Jan 33, F 122, M 36, A 218, M 138, June 332 ... x1000 intentionally
stalking intimidating posts over 6 months See the level of extreme nastiness,
irrational disturbing behaviour, lies and distortions and head trips here BY
MATT SHARPE : aka SHABDA PRECEPTOR on the light force network website CLAIMING
HE SPEAKS FOR THEM ON GOOGLE GROUPS - A LFN GUARDIAN & ELDER a person with
responsibilities operating the light force network - aka KINPA - SANT Shabda -
JON THORPE and more; Matthew M Sharpe. what a gentleman ....... not!
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!profile/alt.religion.eckankar/APn2wQfZU-Th1-F4iyrIFPjFOqJD2jh1jfDtBfwUslwTgfz5PAXZCxbQuF4esGCO-pkFwmy5dn-Q
(shrug)
Kinpa
Jul 9, 2015, 10:56:35 AM7/9/15
to
You have many right here....why do you need someone else to provide them now? The story form "evidence" is not evidence at all, and you know that, they are stories, not exactly the same thing, just as your assumption that plagiarized writings prove them to be fictional, that is a thing that has no evidence to support it,other than the circumstantial evidence of plagiarisms...circumstantial evidence ALWAYS needs other forms of evidence to support it, as otherwise it cannot stand on its own and prove a thing. Simple fact, not to mention that this is where you begin using that same tired old double standard. A majority of the time "one can't prove a negative", and yet in your mind the plagiarisms do exactly that...how does that work?
> It appears to me that a propaganda campaign has been carried forward for a good number of years in which stories that support the belief of "real" Eck masters are promoted, whereas stories and black and white evidence to the contrary is NOT so much promoted.
This is another unproven assumption on your part. Can you prove that ALL of the people who claim inner experiences with them are delusional or false in any way? If you cannot, then this point of view has absolutely nothing to support it, and don't even try to use Wikipedia psychological diagnoses to explain it, at least until you have gone to college and gotten the education on the subject and in the field, because without that they are nothing more than very loose and unproven assumptions by a person who hasn't the intellect to do so. NO way out of that one...plus, the so called "black and white evidence to the contrary" is not even close to being what you claim it is. What do you have to support that conclusion? No direct evidence? And you can't see the problem with that LACK of direct evidence?
> *********
>
> Quoting from the Eckankar website again:
>
> "The ECK teachings are based on compassion, respect, personal responsibility, and giving others freedom. It is against spiritual law to push one's beliefs on others or to hold anyone to a spiritual path. [... .]"
>
> http://www.eckankar.org/FAQ/index.html#cult
Thank you for displaying evidence that you are NOT an ECKist! The proselytizing is not a thing that an ECKist would be doing, yet you do it on a daily basis, and still cannot prove that you have any current membership! LOL
Kinpa
Jul 9, 2015, 11:28:16 AM7/9/15
to
You can try to Mr. McLintock, but be aware that I will see you coming a mile away just as I have sean, which is why he is angry about never having been able to get in...
> You can then send a question or suggestion direct to Loni there, aka LOGOS
>
> Or post a message in a discussion, or make a special blog post about
> "plagiarism in spiritual writings" and find out what people really believe
> and feel about it.
You would need to successfully get in first....
> Seems to be that 99.9% of postings there are just a copy/paste of something,
> with a link from where they got it from, it's pretty quiet place. Lots of
> pretty pictures though. One could start talking about the plagiarisms in
> Blavatsky's writings and translations... and others. PT getting banned from
> Orion.
This from the guy who claims to never go there or take screenshots daily of the site LOL! Also from one who has NEVER actually seen the inside of it nor spoken to a single individual about anything other than myself....this is where he attempts to take a stab at the site because he is angry that we ALWAYS catch him when he tries or asks someone else to try...Blavatsky's plagiarisms aren't a huge deal, already known about, and as I've said, no one wants to discuss Twitchell, that's ALL old news that everyone already knows about..
> The need for Twitchell to use "pseudonyms" in mags, newspapers etc to promote
> himself in 1968 thru 71 to get around advertising rules/costs/bans, endless
> media releases, being a prophecy seer for Steiger of some quite ludicrous
> stuff .... and then there's lots of PT examples of copying.
First someone would have to care about any of these...Now on to sean's list of demands, that no one will be giving to him because he has no right to demand anything LOL!
> for example a person could ask why a wiser person hasn't already ...
> - gone to a.r.e. on google groups to either confirm or deny that Matt Sharpe is the OWNER of the LFN website or not!
Very simple, there is no reason that anyone should! Got that?
> - publicly distance themselves from Matt Sharpe's false claims about HIS website and the 1400 people he claims SUPPORT HIS VIEWS
Why would anyone do these things? Perhaps because what I've said is actually true?
> - publicly distance themselves and their own "beliefs in Eckankar" from the outlandish claims of Matt Sharpe having 20 Sharmans chatting with Matt every day, HOW good he is at "remote viewing" when clearly he cannot!
> - publicly state that they do not support or condone it the insulting lies told about others and the year long personal intimidation, demands, false accusations on a.r.e.
This is getting exceedingly ridiculous...and there ARE quite a few shamans chatting with me daily....have a problem with that? Don't worry about my remote viewing! I have yet to see anyone from there publicly state anything that you'd like them to, but you making these demands IS quite hilarious!
> - would say they do not control Mr. Sharpe or what he thinks, does, or says elsewhere
You actually think that ANYONE does?
> - would publicly state do not condone or agree with false defamatory mythical stories being made up about other people BY Matt Sharpe
> - would publicly state that you do not condone the hosting of COPYRIGHT Infringing files anywhere on LFN
Have ANY evidence of ANY of these accusations? I have yet to see it...can you prove that tere is ANY material that is guilty of copyright infringement? Or do you think that making the claim is good enough, being that YOU have actually stolen and plagiarized copyrighted materials, a proven FACT! Try again...
> - would publicly state that PIRATED COPIES of Eckankar books that were hosted have now been REMOVED and that will not happen again.
Have any evidence? You ARE hilarious!
> - would publicly state that published COPIES of chapters, articles and letters COPYRIGHT by ECKANKAR will be removed asap
You have no right to ask or demand any of these things, aside from the fact that these are empty and unproven claims...a thing that is a habit for you both...
> - would publicly state that other Publishers Copyright material hosted on your website is being removed as well.
Prove that there EVER was any.....
> Yes one could say that kind of thing and anything else that is actually TRUE and ACCURATE - that specifically:
> - MATT SHARPE does NOT represent the LFN website in any way.
> - MATT SHARPE does NOT represent the views, opinions, and beliefs OF ANY MEMBER
> of the LFN website
> - MATT SHARPE has been TOLD DIRECTLY that he is to STOP Misrepresenting himself
> and the "words" of others AS IF he can speak for anyone other than HIMSELF.
>
> Someone might even utter the words that : "I do not support or condone it."
ALL of these demands being made by a person ho has a personal grudge, however, no one cares about his grudge......so, good luck wit that seanie-boy! You have absolutely NO say in who I can or cannot speak for! Get used to it!
> LOOK HERE at Matts Posts - the litany of hundreds of intentional personal
> HARASSMENT BULLYING & STALKING & ABUSIVE COMMENTS & LIES & DEFAMATION WHILE
> HE HAS BEEN PUBLICLY PRESENTING HIMSELF AS THE OWNER OF LFN - his SITE, his
> BLOG, his LFN WEBSITE, and his 1451 members who support him here on a.r.e.
Show proof of shut it!
> Dec 98, Jan 33, F 122, M 36, A 218, M 138, June 332 ... x1000 intentionally
> stalking intimidating posts over 6 months See the level of extreme nastiness,
> irrational disturbing behaviour, lies and distortions and head trips here BY
> MATT SHARPE : aka SHABDA PRECEPTOR on the light force network website CLAIMING
> HE SPEAKS FOR THEM ON GOOGLE GROUPS - A LFN GUARDIAN & ELDER a person with
> responsibilities operating the light force network - aka KINPA - SANT Shabda -
> JON THORPE and more; Matthew M Sharpe. what a gentleman ....... not!
Your opinion has been noted....but you still have to find a single person that cares about your opinion...good luck with that! A person criticizing me about NOT being a gentleman, who also happens to be the same individual that threatened to rape a female online because she angered him and happened to have been a feminist! Who also LIED claiming that he had initiated a police action against her AND David Lane, when in reality it was SHE that initiated police action against her online stalker, sean arundel aka editor.ptha! HA!
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!profile/alt.religion.eckankar/APn2wQfZU-Th1-F4iyrIFPjFOqJD2jh1jfDtBfwUslwTgfz5PAXZCxbQuF4esGCO-pkFwmy5dn-Q
>
>
> (shrug)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You seem rather angry...perhaps you should calm down before you give yourself a heart attack....have a great night sean!
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