Oct. Nov. Dec. Mystic World 1971
Etznab
In the book: Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK
Master, the Table of Contents (p. ix) lists "Paulji's
Mystic World Articles" pp. 173-257. The last one on p.
255 (dated October-November-December 1971) called:
"Paul Translates" does not appear that it could have
been written by Paul Twitchell.
Does anyone know who wrote that article?
Etznab
Etznab
"Here is what was published in The Mystic World
two months after Paul passed on:
The official cause of death was a heart attack. The
separation was immediate and Doctor Louis Bluth, 7th
Initiate who was hastily summoned witnessed Paulji
ascending in the company of the Masters of the Vairagi.
He realized that efforts to revive the body would come to
no avail although every medical effort was made.
http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Four.htm
These are paragraphs from the 1971 Mystic World
article in question. Doug Marman appears to mention
it was published two months after Paul passed on. It
would have been November then? when the October-
November-December Mystic World was published?
Still looking for the author's name.
Etznab
Rich
"Etznab" <etz...@aol.com> wrote
I'd think it was Patti Simpson who was the editor of the Mystic World at the
time.
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Rich~~~~(__________/~~~~Sailing the CyberSea~~~~~
Rich
PAULJI TRANSLATES
Paulji, the Mahanta, the living ECK Master translated from his physical body
at approximately 1:00 A.M. on Friday, September 17, 1971 in his hotel room
in Cincinnati, Ohio. lie had gone to attend the ECKANKAR Cincinnati Seminar.
Paulji arrived in Cincinnati Thursday afternoon in good spirits. He shared a
light supper with some higher Initiates and later joined a large group of
them at a table in the coffee shop. Late that evening he summoned several to
his room for a business meeting. A short time after they had departed one of
the 5th initiates felt a sharp call on the inner to go to him. She hastened
there, he opened the door, greeted her and collapsed. The official cause of
death was a heart attack. The separation was immediate and Doctor Louis
Bluth, 7th Initiate who was hastily summoned witnessed Paulji ascending in
the company of the Masters of the Vairagi. He realized that efforts to
revive the body would come to no avail although every medical effort was
made. As is laid out in the ECK teachings, the body was cremated.
Disposition of the ashes has not been revealed.
The ECK chelas who were gathered in Cincinnati were stunned by the surprise
departure of Paulji, but in keeping with the teachings, and knowing that
Paulji was there as usual they carried out the three day seminar as planned.
The three days were ones of deep spiritual value to all who attended. All
distance was forgotten as they drew close in the common bond of a great
happening. The lectures were inspiring and the week-end was to be an example
of ECKists at their very best.
Rebazar Tarzs stepped into breach and served as the living ECK Master for
the 35 day period between, the translation and the passing of the Mantle to
the present living ECK Master, Sri Darwin Gross.
During the Cincinnati Seminar several manifestations of Paulji were
reported. One eyewitness account appears in the ECK Monthly Letter,
November, 1971 issue. There have been many miracles and mysterious
happenings in the days preceding the translation and following. The accounts
of these are coming into Las Vegas daily and they are exceedingly important
to the history of the ECKANKAR movement. If you had or have any strange,
different or hard to explain experiences surrounding the days of the
translation, Gail Twitchell has specifically requested that you write or
tape them and send them in for historical documentation. Send to: HISTORICAL
DOCUMENTS, ECKANKAR, P. O. Box 5325, Las Vegas, Nevada, 89012
"Etznab" <etz...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1186881220....@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Etznab
Rich,
That was the only name I could think of, although I am
not certain. I remember reading it someplace that Patti
Simpson became Eckankar Publications Director in 1971.
I wonder if that happened in 1971 right after Paul Twitchell
died (September). Far as I'm concerned it's speculation on
my part looking at who wrote that Mystic World. Truth is I
don't know for sure.
BTW, thanks for transcribing the full Mystic World article.
The anniversary is only about a month away (Sept. 17th).
Etznab
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
35 ...? Where have I heard that number before? Oh yeah,
it's also the number of the Minneapolis bridge. The one that
people are going to put back together, piece by piece, and
to determine what actually happened.
I've been looking at another type of "bridge" recently, and
another "35". The one that covered the breach between one
Eck Master and another (Paul Twitchell & Darwin Gross) in
1971.
Whether Patti Simpson wrote the article about those 35
days, it's not like she was Eckankar "organizational head"
in November of 1971. I imagine that the Living Eck Master
at the time, Darwin Gross, inspected that story for cracks.
Did anybody actually "see" Rebazar Tarzs stepping in?
I can't say for certain, as I didn't join Eckankar until 1987.
Whatever the case with that story, I hope there wasn't
any gross negligence.
Etznab
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
In the 2007 book by Doug Marman, The Whole Truth,
reference was made to the article "Paulji Translates".
On page 179, 3rd paragraph, it reads:
Here is what was published in The Mystic World and
sent out to all ECKists, two months after Paul Passed
on. The title of the article was, "Paulji Translates":
The second paragraph in the "unattributed article" by
Rich (See: Show quoted text -) is what appeared to be
quoted by Doug (except for the last two sentences of
that paragraph). A part of this paragraph appeared in
Chap. 4 of Dialogues in the Age of Criticism as well.
With regard to the time immediate following the death
of Paul Twitchell on September 17th, 1971, The Whole
Truth (what I have read from it so far) seemed to give the
impression that ... well, here is a quote (5th paragraph,
p. 200):
"She [Gail Twitchell] began to get calls from a few of
the prominent leaders, such as the Eckankar office
manager, Chet Tuttle, as well as Dr. Bluth. They told her
that the whole teaching would fall apart without a leader
and that only she could say who that leader should be,
since she was the closest person to Paul. They urged
her again and again to do something. But Gail told them
exactly what she had told Paul: It was Paul's choice, and
he was going to have to make it. She wasn't. That's all
there was to it."
On the following page (201) of The Whole Truth, Patti
Simpson is quoted:
On the selection of the Master, I'm going to tell my side
of the story which I've never told before. After Paul died I
asked Gail, "Do you know who will be the next master?"
She said, "No. I don't know." She asked me, "Do you
know?" I said, "No I don't know either."
We had a month long mourning period. We felt pretty
sure that Paul would come through one way or the other.
[....]
Patti then recounts a meditation she did "day in and
day out" until one morning when she woke up knowing
who the next master was going to be. (I only gave the
first two sentences of Patti's "side of the story" here.
See p. 201 in The Whole Truth, by Doug Marman, to
get the rest of the story in Patti's own words.)
According to what I read in The Whole Truth, p. 199,
Gail Twitchell "had claimed to have had a vision in the
middle of the night where Paul had come to her in his
Nuri Sarup body and told her that Darwin Gross was
to be his successor." Patti Simpson's revelation took
place a couple of days later, I believe, and she called
up and told Gail about it. That, along with something
said by Millie Moore, helped to confirm for Gail that
Paul had given the name of his successor. (This is
my impression and attempt to summarize in a few
short sentences what the illustrations appeared to
say.)
What I did not find in either Dialogues in the Age
of Criticism or in The whole Truth by Doug Marman
was the following paragraph from the article "Paulji
Translates":
"Rebazar Tarzs stepped into breach and served as
the living ECK Master for the 35 day period between,
the translation and the passing of the Mantle to the
present living ECK Master, Sri Darwin Gross."
I am not stating this paragraph was not quoted
in Doug's two books, (I'm not sure) but only that it
did not appear along with the two instances that I
mentioned earlier.
This is something that I found to be remarkable.
That people were apparently so concerned about
and asking eachother about who was going to be
the next spiritual leader of Eckankar. And that it
was two months later when people were told via
the Mystic World article that "Rebazar Tarzs
stepped into the breach ...."
In so many words, I find this to be somewhat
remarkable due to a personal interest of mine
for better clarifying the actual "historical context"
of Rebazar Tarzs, for myself, at least.
Here, in this one instance of recorded history
(post September 17th, 1971) I did not find it in
The Whole Truth (at least not yet) a mention of
Rebazar Tarzs stepping into the breach and of
his serving as "living ECK Master" for 35 days
in 1971.
Regardless, I've found that The Whole Truth
does contain a lot of good history about Paul
Twitchell and Eckankar. Others can give their
own impressions about it. I imagine these will
vary according to what pieces of history each
person finds most remarkable for themself, at
any given time.
Etznab
P.S. Hope there aren't any major typos here.
Feel free to correct if so.
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
The quote (which I copied and pasted from Rich's
illustration of it)
"Rebazar Tarzs stepped into breach and served as
the living ECK Master for the 35 day period between,
the translation and the passing of the Mantle to the
present living ECK Master, Sri Darwin Gross."
appears to be missing the word "the". Nevertheless,
I hope the general idea is clear (typo or not).
Etznab
Etznab
Rich, what does "whole unattributed article" mean?
Here is the exact illustration as given on p. 256 in the
book "Difficulties of Becoming The Living ECK Master"
(Copyright 1980 by Eckankar):
"Rebazar Tarzs stepped into the breach and served
as the Living ECK Master for the 35 day period between
the translation and the passing of the Mantle to the present
Living ECK Master, Sri Darwin Gross."
In this version the word "living" is capitalized. In the
illustration that you gave (and that I copied) it is not.
Which is it? Did the original Mystic world article illustrate
the word as "living ECK Master" or "Living ECK Master"?
I am not sure. Maybe it was a typo?
Etznab
P.S. I'm going to assume that "whole unattributed article"
means something like "nothing else added to it". I could
be wrong.
Rich
I did leave out the 'the', but living was not capitalized in the original
version. By unattributed I meant there was no author attributed to the
article.
Etznab
Rich,
Thanks for clearing that up.
Etznab
Doug
Etznab,
I left out that reference to Rebazar Tarzs stepping in during those 35
days because I wasn't sure where this idea came from. I know Paul
never said it. I don't believe it came from Darwin, although he might
have seen the article before it went to press.
My book was already too long, so I tried to stay as focused as
possible on the most basic events of that time.
One thing I did hear was that the feeling of connection to the Master
continued during that time. Most Eckists felt as if the Inner Master
still present. The inner connection was still strong. So, you can see
why they would naturally wonder who the Master was during that time.
Another common idea amongst Eckists at that time was the belief that
the new Master could not step in until October 22. This came from
their interpretations of what they had read. So, that left the
question of who was holding this consciousness during that transition
period.
This might explain why people would conclude that Rebazar was holding
the reins during the interim period, but I've never found logic to be
a good way of discerning spiritual truth.
However, I think it is safe to say that this note in the Mystic World
is an indication that many Eckists looked to Rebazar as the Master for
that period of time.
Doug.
Etznab
Doug,
Sounds reasonable. Thanks for pointing out about
October 22nd. I recall that even Harold Klemp at the
time (according to one of his books) was waiting with
everyone else to see who would be named the next
Living Eck Master.
Etznab
Rich
"Doug" <d.ma...@littleknownpubs.com> wrote
> Etznab,
>
> I left out that reference to Rebazar Tarzs stepping in during those 35
> days because I wasn't sure where this idea came from. I know Paul
> never said it. I don't believe it came from Darwin, although he might
> have seen the article before it went to press.
I agree that it wasn't Paul. Could have been anyone of several people who
brought out the idea.
> My book was already too long, so I tried to stay as focused as
> possible on the most basic events of that time.
>
> One thing I did hear was that the feeling of connection to the Master
> continued during that time. Most Eckists felt as if the Inner Master
> still present. The inner connection was still strong.
That was my personal experience and seems to be generally what I recall
hearing from others. The Inner Master still appeared to me in Paul's form.
> So, you can see
> why they would naturally wonder who the Master was during that time.
>
> Another common idea amongst Eckists at that time was the belief that
> the new Master could not step in until October 22. This came from
> their interpretations of what they had read.
That's what lead me to make sure I was there at that WW Seminar.
> So, that left the
> question of who was holding this consciousness during that transition
> period.
>
> This might explain why people would conclude that Rebazar was holding
> the reins during the interim period, but I've never found logic to be
> a good way of discerning spiritual truth.
Maybe it was just me, but I wasn't wondering or concerned about the interim
period. The 'always' in the 'There is always a living ECK Master' may, as
you suggest, hold a spiritual meaning not limited to literal interpretation.
> However, I think it is safe to say that this note in the Mystic World
> is an indication that many Eckists looked to Rebazar as the Master for
> that period of time.
Perhaps mostly because of the note...? Yet I think that while people were
looking around inwardly, it was more for other answers, relying on the inner
connections they already had. If they hadn't developed conscious inner
connections, then I'd say the image of Rebazar taking care of things might
have brought some comfort to those that needed it.
Although there was the element of shock and great loss, what I recall most
during that time was seeing Paul's smiling face beaming at me, an inner
Darshan that conveyed so much it defies definition. That was all I needed.
It was more than enough.
wernertrp
> "Doug" <d.mar...@littleknownpubs.com> wrote
Heart attack
second title:
50 people 50 different stories.
I've heard Paul died by a heart attack.
The following short-story is grown on my own lower phantasy worlds and
a
little search in google-are.
Take it like a novel or science fiction art.
Here we go.
When the quartette-quintette Paul, Darwin, Gail, ???, ???, travel
extensively through
the pubs of Las Vegas and Menlo Park they come much more close
together.
Darwins deeper understanding of the eck teachings grows more and more
and also his big dick.
Doing the strongly recommended daily new fresh third eye exorcises
and
other exercises he dwell more and more.
And also his horny nervous system.
When Paul is not around he take a first small look at pretty younger
Gail.
The years are comming and going and the look and understanding grows
more and more.
Influenced by the soft singing and musser vibes playing great vienna
charmer Darwin,
Gail who makes here name all honor some day repeated his deep look.
And so the tragedy started.
The seasons come and go.
The eck group sounds and grow. But not the attention of Paul.
(Because the husband is the last who get informed about the affair.)
Some day when Paul is travelling through the higher highest astral
mountain worlds he has a mountain climbing dangerous accident.
He make the wrong step and the wrong grip and tumble down from
the mountain into the lower lowest astral valleys.
And here he get aware of Gail fully satisfied deeper proper nervous
sex center system
triggered by Darwins big dick.
He awake immediately rush up from the couch.
Jumps up.
Rush to the neighbor hotel room and brake open the door.
But while doing this his hand moves to his heart, he roll his eyes and
collapse.
The Happy END.
A great eck-master is dead.
A new eck-master is created
Gail designate Darwin immediately.
Und wenn sie nicht gestorben sind, dann leben sie heute noch.
Terry Robinson
butt see if it helps you out. It could help ya in ways unknown, since
exploring the unknown seems to be the craze in vienna and wearing brown
shirts. Suck Out.
Etznab
> "Doug" <d.mar...@littleknownpubs.com> wrote
I find numerous illustrations within the published works of
Eckankar depicting and/or making reference to the physical
body of Rebazar Tarzs.
What I do not find is one instance in the published works
where Rebazar Tarzs is described as no longer having a
physical body here on Earth.
The most recent example I came across that mentioned
Rebazar Tarzs having a physical body was in "The Key to
ECKANKAR" (Copyright 1968):
"....
Years ago when I returned from England and went to the
northwest to live in Seattle, Washington, Rebazar Tarzs
spent considerable time with me in the physical body. It was
a case of his manifesting suddenly in his body and giving a
series of talks on ECKANKAR, which were to be related to
the world. Finally, one night in late winter, he wound up the
series. I have tried, as best as possible, to summarize the
talks here.
...."
(The Key to ECKANKAR, Fifth Printing - 2003, p. 3, fourth
paragraph)
In the first paragraph of the 2003 version, on page one is
an introduction by Harold Klemp:
"First printed in 1968, The Key to ECKANKAR [<italics]
was one of the early books that introduced people to that
wonderful Tibetan ECK Master, Rebazar Tarzs. His conver-
sation with Paul is a historical document that reflects Paul
Twitchell's state of consciousness at that time.
[....]
"In the first few pages, Rebazar talks interchangeably of
the SUGMAD (God) and the ECK (Holy Spirit). We know
the difference between the Source of all life, and ITS voice.
Rebazar was referring to the Divine Principle that created
our consciousness, and how IT relates to us here and now.
[....]" (my brackets)
Acting on the premise that Rebazar Tarzs had, and does
now have, a physical body living on Earth, if Rebazar Tarzs
does not appear in the physical - and Paul is no longer in
the physical (to "dictate" his words) then who is speaking
for Rebazar Tarzs now? Who will speak for Rebazar Tarzs
in the future? Or, should the question be phrased as: "Who
has the "authority" to speak for Rebazar Tarzs according to
the policy of Eckankar Inc.?"
Is this not an important question, and one addressing the
very heart of the controversy: "Does or does not Rebazar
Tarzs have a physical body living on Earth today?"
If Rebazar Tarzs is a myth, that might be able to answer
some of the difficult questions. However, I have not to this
day found an official statement by Eckankar declaring the
physical body of Rebazar Tarzs to be a myth. And frankly,
I don't believe that myself, Doug Marman, or anybody else
has the "authority" to redefine Rebazar Tarzs "officially" to
members or non-members.
Since I am still asking for clarity on this and nobody can
resolve this controversy with physical records and facts, is
it an indication that something is missing?
For example, the "actual" truth? Is, or is not the physical
body of Rebazar Tarzs a myth? Yes or no? This is what I
cannot "officially" answer.
I did not create Rebazar Tarzs and his physical body.
Paul Twitchell is no longer living. So who is creating the
physical body and history of Rebazar Tarzs now? Is it
Rebazar Tarzs? Is it somebody else? (Some lawyer
somewhere? I really don't know.)
IMHO it is only common sense to ask these questions
in order to clarify the actual truth. Otherwise, how can I
give an accurate explanation to my family and friends -
not to mention people new to Eckankar? I believe this is
important. And if it isn't important to everybody now, I do
suspect that someday it could be. If even not until many,
many years from now.
Doesn't anybody else find this controversy in need of
resolution? If only for the sake of future generations?
What is the physical body of Rebazar Tarzs, history
or myth? If history, who is the authority? If myth, why
have we not been given an "official" declaration?
Etznab
P.S. Typos might exist.
Ken
I don't know the answers to your questions, but I find myself
wondering. Are you sure it has to be one or the other? Maybe
Rebazar's physical manifestation is both real and not real. Or
neither. Does everything have to be categorized into neat
little boxes with labels on them?
--
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ken,
This is only speculative theory, but if Paul Twitchell
did, in fact, "create" Rebazar Tarzs (as a spiritual ideal,
whatever) - and Paul Twitchell is no longer living - then
I have to wonder if anybody really does have official
authority to define Rebazar Tarzs. Except, perhaps, to
remark about what has already been given out.
What do you think?
Etznab
Ken
>
> This is only speculative theory, but if Paul Twitchell
> did, in fact, "create" Rebazar Tarzs (as a spiritual ideal,
> whatever) - and Paul Twitchell is no longer living - then
> I have to wonder if anybody really does have official
> authority to define Rebazar Tarzs. Except, perhaps, to
> remark about what has already been given out.
>
>
> What do you think?
Who has is "official authority" over Beings?
Certainly the creator of fictional beings has authority over
their definition. But what if we're all fictional?
Okay I'm being a little bit silly. Since it's clear that we
are all fictional to a certain extent.
The question as far as I can tell is, does Rebazar have a
physical existence or the ability to physically manifest at
will?
Who would have the authority to determine the reality of that
kind of thing?
--
Ken
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ken,
Reading through Letters to Gail gave me some new insights
into the writings of Paul Twitchell. What seemed important in
the beginning, and throughout those letters, was the finding of
an ideal. Paul suggested several different sources of material
for Gail to read and consider.
The ideals that Paul Twitchell mentioned in his writings are
not what I consider uninspiring. Also, many of the words that
he coined, so to speak.
I believe there are some similarities between the images of
Eck Masters and some of the Eck terms. In many ways they
present to the seeker something unique. Ties to the past, or
connections to other teachings are been broken, it seems, in
some respects through the use of "new" Masters, Stereotype
is removed as well, it seems, by the use of "new" words and
terms..
So it looks to me like this was something important to Paul.
To give the seeker encouragement to start from a clean slate,
so to speak. And, in my opinion, it gave Paul Twitchell liberty
to share a message which could not really be put into words
without limiting it at the same time. Nevertheless, I believe he
that he did what he could.
Another element that stood out to me in L.T.G. was that
of freeing the imagination, a necessary requirement for the
conception of Spirit (what Paul called the Eck), IMO.
The value of Eckankar and the Eck Masters to me is not
entirely based on what has been given out in world history
before 1965. Whether or not written history, or world history
as described in the outer writings matches the actual facts.
It was the historical "context" of Rebazar Tarzs that I have
been especially looking for since Ford Johnson's book that
peeked my interest.
Because it became apparent to me after looking at the
writings historically, I seemed to notice that perhaps it
was time to review the "context" of the information. The
reason was that in some places it looked like Rebazar
Tarzs could not have been an independent individual with
a physical body to match. So I thought I should look at
this and clarify it for myself, at least. Especially since it
had grown into a major topic of controversy.
In Letters to Gail, Vo. III, Paul Twitchell mentions "the
power to investigate history" as one of the ten powers of
Soul (p. 130). So putting things into historical "context"
is something I decided to do.
What do I mean by historical "context"? Simply that
history can come through various agencies. Including -
but not limited to - legend, fable and myth.
I thought it was time to clarify that context, given the
number of controversies I had encountered. And I am
not saying that doing this would nessarily lead to com-
plete resolution of controversy for all people. For myself,
personally, it does and it has helped.
OK, that pdf. file had just finished downloading :)
Etznab
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ken,
I don't find it easy giving a definite and direct answer to
that question. And this, in essence, I suspect to be part
of the answer.
Considering that the history of Rebazar Tarzs might be
better considered in context to legend and myth, etc., I
had to ask myself why? I mean, if a "physical" historical
Rebazar did not exist then what was that telling me? For
one thing, I believe it told me I might have been missing
something. I might have been missing a message that
Paul wanted to get across and, in effect, missing what
could amount to a better understanding of Paul Twitchell
and thus a better understanding of Eckankar.
I'll try to put this in words, what is my opinion for now.
History is filled with records of teachers, masters and
religions speaking about what is Spirit and God. Records
exist in the form mostly of legend and myth, since most
of these allegedly had their genesis in the distant past.
What does any of this have to do with Spirit and God for
any particular individual though?
Sooner or later, I believe, an individual will come to
explore what is their own personal relationship with the
"Divine". What was said before by others could prove a
help and a hindrance, in my opinion, according to how
it speaks to each person. According to the disposition
of each individual too. What I am starting to see in the
message of Paul Twitchell's early writings is the length
he went to to encourage a person to find truth on their
own, by thier own initiative, at the same time giving a
record of how others have traveled that path. Including
his own experiences.
Most important though, having a free imagination to
explore the teachings is what I see as more important
than what anybody else said. Also, having the freedom
to explore spiritual exercises and experience "divinity"
for one's own self and in one's own way. To discover
what makes it all possible though, this is something
that doesn't have to depend on history, on some book,
or even on what another person said, IMO. At least,
the agency for it need not exist in the past, IMO.
Really though, Ken, I'm finding it hard to answer the
question "Who would have the authority to answer that
kind of thing?" with regard to Rebazar Tarzs.
Maybe this is the whole point of it though? Maybe
this is what Paul Twitchell wanted us to eventually ask
each one of ourselves. Not to mention, how much does
it really have to matter to us. I'm not sure. Just a guess.
So much for trying to put it in words.
Etznab
Ken
At the risk of sounding like I'm just repeating a pat answer .
. . Paul put a lot of stuff out there that's nearly impossible
to verify objectively. I don't suppose that was a mistake or
inadvertent. I believe he really wanted each of us to have to
explore these things and find out for ourselves.
--
Ken
Ken
> On Sep 24, 8:41 pm, "Ken" <noth...@all.com> wrote:
>> Does everything have to be categorized into neat
>> little boxes with labels on them?
>
>
> But peception in duality, unfortunately, in the end, is a
> form of truth too.
>
> It doesn't matter, for example, if I'm really wearing a
> yellow shirt if groups of people think/feel/say otherwise.
> Yesterday, I came to a client's home. She's very old. Her
> Home Health aide said with no smile and with a tense,
> frowning, angry face: "SPEAK OF THE DEVIL!" Is it a truth
> that I'm a nice guy? Not if the perception is that I am "the
> Devil."
>
> Good thing that there are spiritual people who are also
> passionate about facts and details to help with some of the
> perception kinds of truths that come up. People approach
> anything or not based on perception.
Other people are always putting us in boxes and labeling us.
But I believe it's entirely up to us whether we accept those
labels and stay in those boxes.
--
Ken
Rich
"Ken" <not...@all.com> wrote in message
news:ROYJi.2095$YN2.1415@trndny07...
Hi Ken & Etznab,
One perception can be that the boxes are artificial lines drawn by the mind.
If one sees the physical, astral, causal, mental and etheric as separate
'realities' rather than an unbroken continuum, a unity co-existing as One,
lots of unanswerable questions arise. If one boxes/limits Truth or Reality
to just the physical, and myth or imagination to the astral, the dilemma is
even worse.
Given infinite gradations between, say, just the physical and the astral,
how does one pick a line of differentiation? I have been in physical places
that appeared distinctly astral, with colors, vibrations, sounds, etc. not
generally seen in 'normal' physical locations. I call them earth chakras.
Are they really different or was it my perception that had expanded? When
others concur, have the same experience in those locations, does that make
it more real and less myth? Where does the physical end? The astral start?
Is there a definitive frequency/vibration border in the spectrum? Cannot
something be less physical but not wholly astral? Somewhere in-between?
Could Soul manifest on a point there? Would some still see it as a physical
body? IME yes. Perhaps that's how Rebazar's 'body' can be seen as both real
and not real? From a POV _limited_ to the astral consciousness it could also
be felt to be a myth, illusion, not real...
As I see it a God-Realized Being(Master of ECK) is not limited in movement
or manifestation but can come and go, or more accurately Be, with that
Soul's focusing of attention anywhere on the spectrum.
A human perspective might be like seeing that the veils separating the so
called bodies/planes of existence/SOC's can be passed right through at will;
that consciousness awareness can be placed any'where' in fluid duality.
Although it's mostly likely outside the boxes that most family and friends
are comfortable with, that's my 2 sense on the memes I like to play with.
Sean
"Dave Barnes" <davemar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1190816716.2...@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> little boxes with labels on them?
>
>
> But peception in duality, unfortunately, in the end, is a form of
> truth too.
>
> It doesn't matter, for example, if I'm really wearing a yellow shirt
> if groups of people think/feel/say otherwise. Yesterday, I came to a
> client's home. She's very old. Her Home Health aide said with no smile
> and with a tense, frowning, angry face: "SPEAK OF THE DEVIL!" Is it a
> truth that I'm a nice guy? Not if the perception is that I am "the
> Devil."
>
> Good thing that there are spiritual people who are also passionate
> about facts and details to help with some of the perception kinds of
> truths that come up. People approach anything or not based on
> perception.
>
YEP good point, and people's "perception" is controlled primarily by their
own beliefs ... observed and unobserved.
AND personally, I think u ARE the Devil! hehehehehe
U devil U ;-)
Sean
Hey ken, get back in ya box will ya?
hehehehehe
Sean
"Rich" <dead...@inorbit.com> wrote in message
news:fdenm...@news2.newsguy.com...
Sean
Come out and play anytime u want mate. <smile>
Etznab
Ken,
I agree with you and, that in many ways, looking at Paul
Twitchell through books decades after the fact is a limited
observation at best. (IMHO)
It wasn't until recently that I started to consider Paul and
his contributions from an historical perspective, but what is
difficult about understanding another person through words
is getting to know their "style" of writing. (IMO)
Quite frankly, and as much as I've read, it seems rather
like I never met the person and spoke with him personally.
This makes it much harder, IMO, to know exactly what he
was saying in every instance and - perhaps even more im -
portantly - WHY he said a lot of what he did.
Etznab
Sean
Etznab, maybe if you could get some of Paul's audio tapes that he did, you'd
get a better handle on this. often, hearing one's voice says much more than
the words. I know ECK centres here in aus had libraries in-house of his
tapes in the 80's and 90's. If you asked around I'm sure you could find some
to listen to. It may help.
cheers
Ken
> hey ken, just to be absolutely sure, I was kidding OK !!!
>
> Come out and play anytime u want mate. <smile>
Help! I've fallen into a box and I can't get out!
--
Ken
Dave Barnes
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sean,
I do have a number of Paul's audio tapes. No video tapes
though.
One of the pictures I saw recently said a lot.
Hey, do you imagine Paul Twitchell was a Libra?
Here is a link for 1909:
http://www.astro.com/swisseph/ae/1900/ae_1909.pdf
(Scroll down to October 22nd)
Umm... I don't know for a fact that Paul was born on Oct.
22nd, 1909. If anyone finds a reference to the exact date
(one that looks most credible), please let me know.
Etznab
Etznab
>
> - Show quoted text -
Not that it means anything, but the planet Saturn entered
Libra in late 1980 and then left in the fall of 1983.
When Darwin was "let go" from Eckankar in the summer
of 1983, the planet Saturn just happened to be transiting the
later degrees of Libra - like probably about where the Sun
had been (later degrees Libra) when Eckankar was founded
on October 22nd, 1965.
I believe the Sun was 29 degrees Libra when Eckankar
was officially founded (10/22/65) and Saturn was 29 degrees
Libra when Darwin Gross was officially removed (08/07/83).
Must be coincidence. (The meeting was August 7th-8th.)
The last time before 1980 when Saturn moved through
Libra was from about November 1950 - October 1953.
If this data is incorrect, someone please correct. I am
providing it for trivial purposes.
Etznab
P.S. Hope I got those numbers correct :)
Sean
hehehehehe, well i don't think it matters. It facinating all the same. and
... You're an intiguing 'trivia' fellow either way. ;-)
I like that!
Etznab
> On Sep 1, 8:21 pm, Etznab <etz...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 12, 1:26 am, "Rich" <deadm...@inorbit.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Here's the whole unattributed article.
> >
> > > PAULJI TRANSLATES
> >
> > > Paulji, the Mahanta, the living ECK Master translated from his physical body
> > > at approximately 1:00 A.M. on Friday, September 17, 1971 in his hotel room
> > > in Cincinnati, Ohio. lie had gone to attend the ECKANKAR Cincinnati Seminar.
> >
> > > Paulji arrived in Cincinnati Thursday afternoon in good spirits. He shared a
> > > light supper with some higher Initiates and later joined a large group of
> > > them at a table in the coffee shop. Late that evening he summoned several to
> > > his room for a business meeting. A short time after they had departed one of
> > > the 5th initiates felt a sharp call on the inner to go to him. She hastened
> > > there, he opened the door, greeted her and collapsed. The official cause of
> > > death was a heart attack. The separation was immediate and Doctor Louis
> > > Bluth, 7th Initiate who was hastily summoned witnessed Paulji ascending in
> > > the company of the Masters of the Vairagi. He realized that efforts to
> > > revive the body would come to no avail although every medical effort was
> > > made. As is laid out in the ECK teachings, the body was cremated.
> > > Disposition of the ashes has not been revealed.
> >
> > > The ECK chelas who were gathered in Cincinnati were stunned by the surprise
> > > departure of Paulji, but in keeping with the teachings, and knowing that
> > > Paulji was there as usual they carried out the three day seminar as planned.
> > > The three days were ones of deep spiritual value to all who attended. All
> > > distance was forgotten as they drew close in the common bond of a great
> > > happening. The lectures were inspiring and the week-end was to be an example
> > > of ECKists at their very best.
> >
> > > Rebazar Tarzs stepped into breach and served as the living ECK Master for
> > > the 35 day period between, the translation and the passing of the Mantle to
> > > the present living ECK Master, Sri Darwin Gross.
> >
> > > During the Cincinnati Seminar several manifestations of Paulji were
> > > reported. One eyewitness account appears in the ECK Monthly Letter,
> > > November, 1971 issue. There have been many miracles and mysterious
> > > happenings in the days preceding the translation and following. The accounts
> > > of these are coming into Las Vegas daily and they are exceedingly important
> > > to the history of the ECKANKAR movement. If you had or have any strange,
> > > different or hard to explain experiences surrounding the days of the
> > > translation, Gail Twitchell has specifically requested that you write or
> > > tape them and send them in for historical documentation. Send to: HISTORICAL
> > > DOCUMENTS, ECKANKAR, P. O. Box 5325, Las Vegas, Nevada, 89012
> > >news:1186881220....@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > On Aug 11, 8:00 pm, Etznab <etz...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > >> In the book: Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK
> > > >> Master, the Table of Contents (p. ix) lists "Paulji's
> > > >> Mystic World Articles" pp. 173-257. The last one on p.
> > > >> 255 (dated October-November-December 1971) called:
> > > >> "Paul Translates" does not appear that it could have
> > > >> been written by Paul Twitchell.
> >
> > > >> Does anyone know who wrote that article?
> >
> > > >> Etznab
> >
> > > > "Here is what was published in The Mystic World
> > > > two months after Paul passed on:
> >
> > > > The official cause of death was a heart attack. The
> > > > separation was immediate and Doctor Louis Bluth, 7th
> > > > Initiate who was hastily summoned witnessed Paulji
> > > > ascending in the company of the Masters of the Vairagi.
> > > > He realized that efforts to revive the body would come to
> > > > no avail although every medical effort was made.
> >
> > > >http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Four.htm
> >
> > > > These are paragraphs from the 1971 Mystic World
> > > > article in question. Doug Marman appears to mention
> > > > it was published two months after Paul passed on. It
> > > > would have been November then? when the October-
> > > > November-December Mystic World was published?
> >
> > > > Still looking for the author's name.
> > > > Etznab- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > reference was made to the article "Paulji Translates".
> > On page 179, 3rd paragraph, it reads:
> >
> > Here is what was published in The Mystic World and
> > sent out to all ECKists, two months after Paul Passed
> > on. The title of the article was, "Paulji Translates":
> >
> > The second paragraph in the "unattributed article" by
> > Rich (See: Show quoted text -) is what appeared to be
> > quoted by Doug (except for the last two sentences of
> > that paragraph). A part of this paragraph appeared in
> > Chap. 4 of Dialogues in the Age of Criticism as well.
> >
> > With regard to the time immediate following the death
> > of Paul Twitchell on September 17th, 1971, The Whole
> > Truth (what I have read from it so far) seemed to give the
> > impression that ... well, here is a quote (5th paragraph,
> > p. 200):
> >
> > "She [Gail Twitchell] began to get calls from a few of
> > the prominent leaders, such as the Eckankar office
> > manager, Chet Tuttle, as well as Dr. Bluth. They told her
> > that the whole teaching would fall apart without a leader
> > and that only she could say who that leader should be,
> > since she was the closest person to Paul. They urged
> > her again and again to do something. But Gail told them
> > exactly what she had told Paul: It was Paul's choice, and
> > he was going to have to make it. She wasn't. That's all
> > there was to it."
> >
> > On the following page (201) of The Whole Truth, Patti
> > Simpson is quoted:
> >
> > On the selection of the Master, I'm going to tell my side
> > of the story which I've never told before. After Paul died I
> > asked Gail, "Do you know who will be the next master?"
> > She said, "No. I don't know." She asked me, "Do you
> > know?" I said, "No I don't know either."
> >
> > We had a month long mourning period. We felt pretty
> > sure that Paul would come through one way or the other.
> > [....]
> >
> > Patti then recounts a meditation she did "day in and
> > day out" until one morning when she woke up knowing
> > who the next master was going to be. (I only gave the
> > first two sentences of Patti's "side of the story" here.
> > See p. 201 in The Whole Truth, by Doug Marman, to
> > get the rest of the story in Patti's own words.)
> >
> > According to what I read in The Whole Truth, p. 199,
> > Gail Twitchell "had claimed to have had a vision in the
> > middle of the night where Paul had come to her in his
> > Nuri Sarup body and told her that Darwin Gross was
> > to be his successor." Patti Simpson's revelation took
> > place a couple of days later, I believe, and she called
> > up and told Gail about it. That, along with something
> > said by Millie Moore, helped to confirm for Gail that
> > Paul had given the name of his successor. (This is
> > my impression and attempt to summarize in a few
> > short sentences what the illustrations appeared to
> > say.)
> >
> > What I did not find in either Dialogues in the Age
> > of Criticism or in The whole Truth by Doug Marman
> > was the following paragraph from the article "Paulji
> > Translates":
> >
> > "Rebazar Tarzs stepped into breach and served as
> > the living ECK Master for the 35 day period between,
> > the translation and the passing of the Mantle to the
> > present living ECK Master, Sri Darwin Gross."
> >
> > I am not stating this paragraph was not quoted
> > in Doug's two books, (I'm not sure) but only that it
> > did not appear along with the two instances that I
> > mentioned earlier.
> >
> > This is something that I found to be remarkable.
> > That people were apparently so concerned about
> > and asking eachother about who was going to be
> > the next spiritual leader of Eckankar. And that it
> > was two months later when people were told via
> > the Mystic World article that "Rebazar Tarzs
> > stepped into the breach ...."
> >
> > In so many words, I find this to be somewhat
> > remarkable due to a personal interest of mine
> > for better clarifying the actual "historical context"
> > of Rebazar Tarzs, for myself, at least.
> >
> > Here, in this one instance of recorded history
> > (post September 17th, 1971) I did not find it in
> > The Whole Truth (at least not yet) a mention of
> > Rebazar Tarzs stepping into the breach and of
> > his serving as "living ECK Master" for 35 days
> > in 1971.
> >
> > Regardless, I've found that The Whole Truth
> > does contain a lot of good history about Paul
> > Twitchell and Eckankar. Others can give their
> > own impressions about it. I imagine these will
> > vary according to what pieces of history each
> > person finds most remarkable for themself, at
> > any given time.
> >
> > Etznab
> >
> > P.S. Hope there aren't any major typos here.
> > Feel free to correct if so.
> Etznab,
>
> I left out that reference to Rebazar Tarzs stepping in during those 35
> days because I wasn't sure where this idea came from. I know Paul
> never said it. I don't believe it came from Darwin, although he might
> have seen the article before it went to press.
>
> possible on the most basic events of that time.
>
> One thing I did hear was that the feeling of connection to the Master
> continued during that time. Most Eckists felt as if the Inner Master
>
> Another common idea amongst Eckists at that time was the belief that
> the new Master could not step in until October 22. This came from
> period.
>
> This might explain why people would conclude that Rebazar was holding
> the reins during the interim period, but I've never found logic to be
> a good way of discerning spiritual truth.
>
> is an indication that many Eckists looked to Rebazar as the Master for
> that period of time.
>
Dr. Bluth? Patti Simpson? Gail? Did they look to Rebazar Tarzs too?
This 35 day period included the time before Darwin was announced LEM. And it began the day after Paul Twitchell died. So why were people running to Gail saying she had to do something? And why have a departed master like Paul Twitchell determine the next LEM when Rebazar Tarzs had already stepped into the breach?
There shouldn't have been any histeria, IMO, if Rebazar Tarzs had actually stepped into the breach. R.T. could have theoretically served as LEM for years from that date forward. If he were indeed real.
I think it's highly possible to determine who wrote that piece about R.T. stepping into the breach. I fail to see how Doug could not be sure where this idea came from. It's an idea that should have been front and center in The Whole Truth.
What did R.T. say during that 35 days? I wonder if he wrote anything, or spoke with Patti, or Gail? As dear as Paul Twitchell apparently was to Rebazar Tarzs, could he not at least have named Paul's successor?
I think I know where people got the idea that R.T. stepped into the breach.
As for the Master, or Inner Master being present, this paragraph makes no sense to me.
"One thing I did hear was that the feeling of connection to the Master
continued during that time. Most Eckists felt as if the Inner Master
How could people feel connection with the Inner Master and also wonder who the master was? Makes no logical sense to me at all.
Santim Vah
>
>
>
> Dr. Bluth? Patti Simpson? Gail? Did they look to Rebazar Tarzs too?
>
>
>
> This 35 day period included the time before Darwin was announced LEM. And it began the day after Paul Twitchell died. So why were people running to Gail saying she had to do something? And why have a departed master like Paul Twitchell determine the next LEM when Rebazar Tarzs had already stepped into the breach?
>
>
>
> There shouldn't have been any histeria, IMO, if Rebazar Tarzs had actually stepped into the breach. R.T. could have theoretically served as LEM for years from that date forward. If he were indeed real.
>
>
>
> I think it's highly possible to determine who wrote that piece about R.T. stepping into the breach. I fail to see how Doug could not be sure where this idea came from. It's an idea that should have been front and center in The Whole Truth.
>
>
>
> What did R.T. say during that 35 days? I wonder if he wrote anything, or spoke with Patti, or Gail? As dear as Paul Twitchell apparently was to Rebazar Tarzs, could he not at least have named Paul's successor?
>
>
>
> I think I know where people got the idea that R.T. stepped into the breach.
>
>
>
> As for the Master, or Inner Master being present, this paragraph makes no sense to me.
>
>
>
> "One thing I did hear was that the feeling of connection to the Master
>
> continued during that time. Most Eckists felt as if the Inner Master
>
> still present. The inner connection was still strong. So, you can see
>
> why they would naturally wonder who the Master was during that time."
>
>
>
> Makes no sense at all. If R.T. was the LEM and stepped into the breach then he would be a Living Eck Master. Isn't the Inner Master the Inner side of the LEM?
>
>
>
> How could people feel connection with the Inner Master and also wonder who the > master was? Makes no logical sense to me at all.
RE
"One thing I did hear was that the feeling of connection to the Master
continued during that time. Most Eckists felt as if the Inner Master
still present. The inner connection was still strong. So, you can see
why they would naturally wonder who the Master was during that time."
Luckily someone told them later in the MW ... HU it was :-)
well .. theoretically RT could have served as LEM for another 500 YEARS from that date forward, if he needed to.
But Gail put her foot down, and said he was too old for the job ... "35 days will be quite enough thank you. " she said to RT when he appeared physically in her San Diego home for a chat.
oh well ..
Etznab
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0KObtCQpPKbMjU2MDM3YTYtNTYyNi00YjE5LWEwNzYtZTQ3NzNlNWFkYjEz/edit
The Oct., Nov., Dec., Mystic World mentioned that Rebazar Tarzs stepped into the breach for 35 days. Which apparently suggests (to me) that was put out AFTER the October Monthly Letter. In fact, it would apparently have had to be late October (after Darwin was announced) at the earliest; when that Mystic World article came out.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0KObtCQpPKbNGVlYTgzOGUtMDYxMS00MGJiLWEzZWEtODE1MTMyZmNiNjEy/edit
Typically it is the LEM who writes the Mystic World article? However, that Mystic World article appeared to "talk about" Louis Bluth, Darwin Gross and Gail Twitchell. So it doesn't seem that it was written by Gail.
Theoretically it could have been written by Bluth, or Darwin ... it's not certain.
If it was already mentioned before the WWS that the present LEM would be presented then (at the WWS)... and after the WWS mentioned that Rebazar Tarzs served as the Living Eck Master for the 35 days???????
Where does Darwin Gross enter the picture?
Did I read all that right?
Etznab
> continued during that time. Most Eckists felt as if the Inner Master
> still present. The inner connection was still strong. So, you can see
> why they would naturally wonder who the Master was during that time.
>
> the new Master could not step in until October 22. This came from
> their interpretations of what they had read. So, that left the
> question of who was holding this consciousness during that transition
> period.
>
> This might explain why people would conclude that Rebazar was holding
> the reins during the interim period, but I've never found logic to be
> a good way of discerning spiritual truth.
>
> However, I think it is safe to say that this note in the Mystic World
> is an indication that many Eckists looked to Rebazar as the Master for
> that period of time.
>
> Doug.
Etznab
Henosis Sage
"We had a month long mourning period. We felt pretty
sure that Paul would come through one way or the other."
[....]
" Patti then recounts a meditation she did "day in and
day out" until one morning when she woke up knowing
who the next master was going to be."
1972 Patti said that Gail T telephoned Darwin Gross 5 days after Twitchell
died, to "inform" him he was to be the next LEM.
But it never surprises me when people in leadership roles are found to tell
completely different stories about the one event at completely different times.
Patti Simpson is no exception there.
Neither is she saying things like this a one off event for her:
"On the selection of the Master, I'm going to tell my side
of the story which I've never told before."
or "whose" other side of the story ?
More than likely (imho) it's Gail and Patti together writing up the RT
filled the breach story???
and snickering together like school girls on vacation from the head master.
Hopefully Gail will take all these "stories" to her grave. and the book can be shut.
AS to Marman's comments above, he's always just grasping at straws .. and anything that feels good enough and fits "his template" that's good enough.
AS usual he speaks as if he can speak for every eckist on the planet as to what things "felt like" for them about "who the master was" but "it was the same" ...
woo woo ... Marman, like Klemp, and Patti S, like far too many haven't had a
clue for decades .. and like Twitchell tended to make it up as they go ....
some story about Sudar Singh could be might be perhaps if if if could be a
lead in India.... one by one these "questions" were raised and put on ice, and
then forgotten and ignored.
Kinpa
I notice that you constantly accuse people, and then within minutes turn around and do exactly what you accused others of doing,such as that case in Yahoo groups where you were said to have threatened to rape a woman....if you had never actually done that, then why did you go back and delete your posts? Scared of something? Like being proven a liar just as you claim Twitchell is? It has already been proven that you are at least as much of a plagiarist as you claim that he was, there is no getting out of that one.