Women in controlling relationships.
Scorpio
this subject briefly. It is a pamphlet from our local Women's Refuge.
DOES YOUR PARNTER OR SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY...
Put you down, constantly criticise or call you names?
Threaten tohurt you/kill themselves/report you/take your children
away?
Follow and check up on you or repeatedly email/call/text you?
Get Jealous or angry easily?
Not let you have any money or friends?
Force you to have sex or do degrading things?
Hit, choke, push, slap, burn, kick, shout at you,or throw things?
These are power and control tactics used by abusive people to control
their partners or family members.
ARE YOU FEELING...
Like you're walking on egg-shells?
Like your're going crazy?
Confused, depressed , frustrated or anxious?
Tried of trying to keep the peace?
Alone and isolated?
Worried that the violence stops you being the Mum you want to be?
Fearful for yourself or your children's lives?
If you answered yes to some or these questions, you are probably being
abused. Violence can involve psychological, emotional, financial,
physical and or sexual abuse. The violence will get worse over time
if nothing is done to stop the violent person.
Violence affects women at any age, with or without children,
regardless of ethnicity, sexuality, economic circumstances or
education.
My words now: This is heavy stuff. It is meant to be heavy because
it is a heavy problem. Take it from someone who knows - decide that
you are worthy of being happy!!!!!
Megan
Atlanta
I would not post that in this group. People will blame the woman, and
say it is her fault that she was abused, and she deserved it, and that
she is lying and no one is abusing her, and that she is merely looking
for attention.
Scorpio
>
> - Show quoted text -
Get over yourself!
Bella_is_Noir
Very cool and thank you very much, Meg! I hand a similar flyer out to
women on my case load as part of a resource packet. Do you know that
most women who end up in prison were victims of domestic or sexual abuse
during their lifetimes? It's a heart breaker!
Bella
Atlanta
> On Nov 20, 1:20 pm, Atlanta <olympiada2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 3:56 pm, Scorpio <mwhit...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>
> > > I saw a pamphlet today and I want to share it as we have touched on
> > > this subject briefly. It is a pamphlet from our local Women's Refuge.
>
> > > DOES YOUR PARNTER OR SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY...
>
> > > Put you down, constantly criticise or call you names?
>
> > > Megan
>
> > I would not post that in this group. People will blame the woman, and
> > say it is her fault that she was abused, and she deserved it, and that
> > she is lying and no one is abusing her, and that she is merely looking
> > for attention.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Get over yourself!
I am being very serious. Any woman who comes out and talks about her
abuse risks getting abused. In fact, you just played into my hand, you
did the very thing I said would happen and proved my point
immediately. Women will backlash and men will abuse. Please, if you
are being abused, do not write in this newsgroup, until you are strong
enough to withstand criticism for coming out and telling your story.
Everything is political, but don't tell your story until you are safe.
I really mean that.
Bella_is_Noir
This was not an indictment of women who have been abused. It's a
recognition that the abuse strips away power and the sense of self so
thoroughly that these women find themselves in horrible situations and
have absolutely no idea how to get out of them. It is a tragedy and
more awareness and support is sorely needed.
Bella
Atlanta
Maybe changing social attitudes towards victims of domestic violence,
instead of blaming them and shaming them, might be a good start. Or
perhaps changing social attitudes towards women who become traumatized
and depressed as a result of alcoholic and/or abusive marriages would
be another start. Or finally, not blaming and shaming women who are
unhappy and choose to divorce their alcoholic and/or abusive husbands
could be another excellent strategy. Especially for those in positions
of power in society, and/or the "mental health profession". It starts
here. Changed attitudes aid recovery. Attending meetings REALLY helps,
especially if one wants to present oneself as some sort of "expert" in
this particular recovery group which does not adhere to the 12 steps.
Scorpio
>
> - Show quoted text -
Again! Get over yourself.
coyote
Maybe it is because I know you, but I didn't read it as an indictment. :)
--
~coyote
"My business model: LET ME SHOW YOU IT."
#1 Pedantic Wangle-Fucked Nitpicker
Bella_is_Noir
Hey, Gorgeous! How ah ya? My ears and brain are still incredibly
tired. Two more days of being the boss and then I have four glorious
days of no mentorees! (yes, plural. I now have two more. Before too
much longer, I'm gonna be either beatified or put down. It's a toss up
right now.) I'll turn AIM back on sometime over the weekend. The
Wonders are finished with the musical and I remembered why musical
theater drives me nuts..which is also not an indictment of those who
enjoy it. It's just not my thing. Anyway, two more days and things get
easier. Hopefully, I'll catch you online before too much longer.
Hugs, kisses and happy thoughts!
Bella
ao
I want to barf.
M. Shirley Chong
> This was not an indictment of women who have been abused. It's a
> recognition that the abuse strips away power and the sense of self so
> thoroughly that these women find themselves in horrible situations and
> have absolutely no idea how to get out of them. It is a tragedy and
> more awareness and support is sorely needed.
It's also a reflection of the fact that women are often subjected to
more severe sentences for the same crimes than men are.
Darn, now I can't think of the name of the paper--it's a New Orleans
newspaper with a terrific reputation (this ageing memory thing
sucks). They did a series earlier this year examining disparate
sentencing between men and women who killed their spouses.
One guy had killed three wives, each marriage was marked by his
abuse and substance abuse. He served less than ten years for the
first two killing, got the death penalty the third time. That was
the most egregious case but there were others that were not much better.
In contrast, the women who killed their spouses had all been abused
by them and finally snapped. The shortest sentence was 50 years
(which would mean she would serve a minimum of 25 years before being
considered for parole).
Then the paper ran an editorial pointing out that it's apparently
less awful for a man who abuses his wife to finally kill her than it
is for a woman who has been repeatedly abused to finally kill her
husband.
Shirley
ao
Bella_is_Noir
Yup...sat through an absolutely horrible parole hearing for a woman who
had, after years of abuse, shot her husband. She moved away from him,
he kidnapped her, dragged her back and beat her within an inch of her
life. The small town in which she resided showed up at her hearing and
testified on her behalf. The board denied her parole. I still don't
understand how they could possibly deny her.
Bella
coyote
I'm tired and sore - you know, the usual - but I managed to give a Very
Bad Guy a *very* bad life today, so I feel pretty good right now. How
the politics on this one shake out should be interesting, but it will
have to wait until next week. One more day of work and Im off until
Monday, hurrah!
> My ears and brain are still incredibly
> tired. Two more days of being the boss and then I have four glorious
> days of no mentorees! (yes, plural. I now have two more. Before too
> much longer, I'm gonna be either beatified or put down. It's a toss up
> right now.)
Try not to rip the tongues out of their heads, huh?
> I'll turn AIM back on sometime over the weekend. The
> Wonders are finished with the musical and I remembered why musical
> theater drives me nuts..which is also not an indictment of those who
> enjoy it. It's just not my thing. Anyway, two more days and things get
> easier. Hopefully, I'll catch you online before too much longer.
I'll be around.
ao
are bad guys. And then she turns around and attacks others for being
amoral, or was it immoral? The plot thickens. Most of these anonymous
women are dangerous. They are in denial about their true selves, and are
in positions of authority over people, decision making positions. One, a
married mother, from a dysfunctional family, an abusive childhood,
married to an alcoholic. The other, practices a sadomasochist lifestyle,
has no children, lost a baby, sterile, has a weekend friend, not
religious, not Christian, and feels she is entitled to pass judgment on
Christian, Orthodox Christian mothers. Of course, she will say it is
just one she feels entitled to smear before the whole world, in order to
boost her sagging ego. And they are both women, in the Judgment Seat.
Terrifying.
Now that we know what we are dealing with... A lot has been revealed
today, thanks to all of you.
Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross between two thieves. He dined
among sinners. And this woman has the nerve to judge another woman's
Christianity? She would not dare attack us in the Eastern Orthodox
group, at least she knows better than that, now.
She is an example of God's mercy, that God is allowing her to continue
to live despite her many fatal flaws.
God has love for the weak and infirm, why can't we?
Bella_is_Noir
>
>
> I'm tired and sore - you know, the usual - but I managed to give a Very
> Bad Guy a *very* bad life today, so I feel pretty good right now. How
> the politics on this one shake out should be interesting, but it will
> have to wait until next week. One more day of work and Im off until
> Monday, hurrah!
Hooray, hooray! Go get 'em, Mademoiselle Chasseur!
>
> Try not to rip the tongues out of their heads, huh?
I try and I try. I sit on my hands. I wear socks on 'em. It's a sore
trial.
>
>
> I'll be around.
> :)
Yippee kai-yay kai-yo-tay! It will be a wonderful weekend! Oh...and
save some of that turkey for sandwiches!
Bella
coyote
> coyote wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm tired and sore - you know, the usual - but I managed to give a
>> Very Bad Guy a *very* bad life today, so I feel pretty good right now.
>> How the politics on this one shake out should be interesting, but it
>> will have to wait until next week. One more day of work and Im off
>> until Monday, hurrah!
>
> Hooray, hooray! Go get 'em, Mademoiselle Chasseur!
Im trying hard not to be gleeful, and failing. We've been playing
footsie with this guy for years now, and thanks to the recent shakeup
the political landscape has changed in such a way that he might finally
get treated the way he should have been all along: with no preference!
The fact this went down just before the holiday is coincidental but
awesome, he can sit and stew until everyone gets back to the office.
He's not going to get what he wants anyway, but making him wait to make
his demands and try to convince us is going to be torture for him :)
>>
>> Try not to rip the tongues out of their heads, huh?
>
> I try and I try. I sit on my hands. I wear socks on 'em. It's a sore
> trial.
I can only imagine. I am not a good mentor for the job I do: I'm very
good at what I do but it is impossible for me to explain it in depth
since a great deal of it is intuition and pattern-recognition, once you
get past the basic "this is how you use the tools" stuff. Ferreting out
the information that leads to me uncovering nests like the one I found
today is largely a function of my experience, the people I know, and my
ability to see patterns and tie weird isolated facts together. It is not
something I know how to teach.
>>
>
>>
>> I'll be around.
>> :)
>
> Yippee kai-yay kai-yo-tay! It will be a wonderful weekend!
Lemme guess. You're going to be watching football! *grin* It'll be a
quiet weekend here. Huey has gone back to his homeland and I'm going to
spend the time off reading, catching up on my TiVo and sleeping, I think.
> Oh...and
> save some of that turkey for sandwiches!
I'm not cooking this year, but Im going over to a friend's for the
feast, and I suspect I will have leftovers foisted upon me, since she's
incapable of cooking for less than an army. I will of course accept them
gratefully. Turkey sammiches are the best! How do you like to make
yours? My favorite is
Toasted English muffin
Turkey breast
Stuffing
Lettuce
A little mayo
Mmmmm....damn, now Im hungry.
Bella_is_Noir
Turkey sammiches are the best! How do you like to make
> yours? My favorite is
>
> Toasted English muffin
> Turkey breast
> Stuffing
> Lettuce
> A little mayo
>
> Mmmmm....damn, now Im hungry.
>
>
Turkey
rye bread
Mama Stamberg's cranberry relish (1 c. sour cream, 1 small minced onion,
2 c. chopped cranberries, 1/4 c. sugar and as much horseradish as I can
get away with).
Lettuce.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> Maybe changing social attitudes towards victims of domestic violence,
> instead of blaming them and shaming them, might be a good start. Or
> perhaps changing social attitudes towards women who become traumatized
> and depressed as a result of alcoholic and/or abusive marriages would
> be another start. Or finally, not blaming and shaming women who are
> unhappy and choose to divorce their alcoholic and/or abusive husbands
> could be another excellent strategy. Especially for those in positions
> of power in society, and/or the "mental health profession". It starts
> here. Changed attitudes aid recovery. Attending meetings REALLY helps,
> especially if one wants to present oneself as some sort of "expert" in
> this particular recovery group which does not adhere to the 12 steps.
You seem to be abstracting from your own deeply fucked-up life to the
lives of anyone who has any experiences in common with you. This is a
mistake. The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. I have a great deal of
sympathy for women who have been raped, but I have much less sympathy
for people like you, whose problems are significantly of their own
doing.
--
Huey
Atlanta
As I stated, Megan, your post should have had a disclaimer that any
abused woman who is not sufficiently strong enough should not reply.
As I told you, any woman who dares to come out and tell her story will
get blamed and shamed. I know when girls are blamed for being raped.
It was evident to me that a poster in this group was blamed for being
raped when she was twelve. I knew this without her saying this. And
she hated me for that. This is not the kind of thing that should be
discussed in this group. It is off topic. Why you are allowing this
abusive Republican wealthy dishonest veteran male arrogant proud
pompous jerk troll to post here is beyond me. You should be driving
him off with stakes.
Scorpio
Huey's homeland? Is he not from around there?
Megan
Scorpio
>
> - Show quoted text -
Did you fart?
huey.c...@gmail.com
> On Nov 19, 9:27 pm, huey.calli...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Atlanta <olympiada2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Maybe changing social attitudes towards victims of domestic
> > > violence, instead of blaming them and shaming them, might be a
> > > good start. Or perhaps changing social attitudes towards women who
> > > become traumatized and depressed as a result of alcoholic and/or
> > > abusive marriages would be another start. Or finally, not blaming
> > > and shaming women who are unhappy and choose to divorce their
> > > alcoholic and/or abusive husbands could be another excellent
> > > strategy. Especially for those in positions of power in society,
> > > and/or the "mental health profession". It starts here. Changed
> > > attitudes aid recovery. Attending meetings REALLY helps,
> > > especially if one wants to present oneself as some sort of
> > > "expert" in this particular recovery group which does not adhere
> > > to the 12 steps.
> > You seem to be abstracting from your own deeply fucked-up life to
> > the lives of anyone who has any experiences in common with you. This
> > is a mistake. The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. I have a great
> > deal of sympathy for women who have been raped, but I have much less
> > sympathy for people like you, whose problems are significantly of
> > their own doing.
> abused woman who is not sufficiently strong enough should not reply.
You obviously can't read. Not 'any abused woman', just you.
> As I told you, any woman who dares to come out and tell her story will
> get blamed and shamed.
Not 'any woman', just you.
> I know when girls are blamed for being raped. It was evident to me
> that a poster in this group was blamed for being raped when she was
> twelve. I knew this without her saying this.
Then why did you say that she couldn't possibly understand the horrific
experiences you'd been through?
> And she hated me for that.
No, I think it was more because you were a cruel bitch.
> This is not the kind of thing that should be discussed in this group.
> It is off topic. Why you are allowing this abusive Republican wealthy
> dishonest veteran male arrogant proud pompous jerk troll to post here
> is beyond me.
I'm not dishonest.
> You should be driving him off with stakes.
Porterhouse stakes!
--
Huey
Atlanta
> > I know when girls are blamed for being raped. It was evident to me
> > that a poster in this group was blamed for being raped when she was
> > twelve. I knew this without her saying this.
>
> Then why did you say that she couldn't possibly understand the horrific
> experiences you'd been through?
>
Just who exactly do you think we are discussing? I won't name her. By
the way, you set a horrendous example for your girlfriend. You should
be ashamed of yourself. She imitates your disgusting behavior. You are
blessed she is barren. All the world needs is a child you have
conceived. Its bad enough you have a submissive girlfriend to mold to
your standard.
BTW I don't give a whit what you think of me personally. I think you
are a belligerent, aggressive, militant, violent, arrogant prick. You
really ought to get a handle on your own issues.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> > > I know when girls are blamed for being raped. It was evident to me
> > > that a poster in this group was blamed for being raped when she
> > > was twelve. I knew this without her saying this.
> > Then why did you say that she couldn't possibly understand the
> > horrific experiences you'd been through?
> Just who exactly do you think we are discussing?
Why? How many women in this group were raped at twelve and blamed for it?
> I won't name her.
Oh, we're playing that game again? Feel free to invent a name like
'bondage matron' for her then.
> By the way, you set a horrendous example for your girlfriend.
I do not set an example 'for' anyone, I merely live my life.
> You should be ashamed of yourself.
For what?
> She imitates your disgusting behavior.
No, she showers much more often.
> You are blessed she is barren.
You are in no position to judge who is blessed and who is not.
> All the world needs is a child you have conceived.
It does. However, this is unlikely to occur.
> Its bad enough you have a submissive girlfriend to mold to your
> standard. BTW I don't give a whit what you think of me personally.
I think you're an idiotic unemployed insane welfare fraud.
> I think you are a belligerent, aggressive, militant, violent, arrogant
> prick.
Your opinion, being that of someone who is both stupid AND crazy, is
completely immaterial, but apparently by sheer luck, you managed to
score four out of a possible six. You get a D.
> You really ought to get a handle on your own issues.
I _have_ a handle on my own issues, you mad cow.
--
Huey
Vagabond
I have covered a number of trials relating to crimes of this nature, women
who kill husbands, and I have had access to quite a bit of the "behind the
scenes" attitudes of the judiciary. One High Court Judge is a personal
friend and a training partner with riding and kayaking.
The way the courts tend to look at is like this. A man who abuses a woman
is living with someone who rightly or wrongly angers him, and being much
stronger, he can easily dominate, (abuse) and possibly eventually kill that
woman in a fit of rage without really meaning or planning to. He comes home
from work after a few drinks (nearly all wife killers have alcohol in their
system if arrested "in situ"), gets into a row, and flies off the handle
physically. This is regarded as a crime of passion, something that in
earlier times in some jurisdictions, could see the person walking free. He
may be a total bastard, a gutless coward to attack a woman who is smaller
and weaker, but it is often regarded as manslaughter, not murder.
On the other hand a woman, who is physically weaker, who kills a man must
usually plan carefully. It is premeditation, and that is true murder, not a
crime of passion, because it is motivated by revenge, not fear as is so
often claimed. If it was fear they can easily run away. There isn't a woman
alive in Western society who doesn't know that there are women's groups and
shelters available to them. If there is a fight and during that fight, the
woman grabs a weapon and uses it, then the courts usually will regard the
homicide as justified. Unfortunately more and more such cases obviously
involve planning and a very large degree of premeditation.
It might seem unfair, but unfairness is not justification for premeditated
murder. A crime of passion is more akin to manslaughter than murder and is
regarded by many courts as deserving a lesser penalty.
There are answers to the problem of marital abuse but aside theoretical
discussion, I have not heard of anything practical being attempted.
I have some thoughts that if applied would severely reduce domestic
violence but although they would undoubtedly be effective, most would
regard them as too radical. They would involve a complete overhaul of the
Family Law Acts and major changes to taxation and various licencing
authorities procedures.
Regards
Tony
Vagabond
Gee. I think that you just outed yourself. Your agenda is showing.
You won't forget to piss off now, will you?
Tony
Vagabond
>>
>> My words now: This is heavy stuff. It is meant to be heavy because
>> it is a heavy problem. Take it from someone who knows - decide that
>> you are worthy of being happy!!!!!
>> Megan
>
> I would not post that in this group.
Many people wish you would not post in this group. Have you noticed that?
> People will blame the woman, and
> say it is her fault that she was abused, and she deserved it, and that
> she is lying and no one is abusing her, and that she is merely looking
> for attention.
What woman? Why don't you read things before responding to them, it might
help you to appear more lucid.
Megan posted from a public notice addressed to all woman, there is no
specific woman to be "blamed" as you suggest.
Even if this was a about a specific woman, your claim is ridiculous. No one
that I know would consider blaming the woman, perhaps you move in very
unsavory circles if that is your experience.
As usual, you are posting idiotic, ill considered, misinformed nonsense.
Tony
Vagabond
> On Nov 19, 4:22 pm, Scorpio <mwhit...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>> On Nov 20, 1:20 pm, Atlanta <olympiada2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 19, 3:56 pm, Scorpio <mwhit...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> I saw a pamphlet today and I want to share it as we have touched on
>>>> this subject briefly. It is a pamphlet from our local Women's Refuge.
>>>> DOES YOUR PARNTER OR SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY...
>>>> Put you down, constantly criticise or call you names?
>
>>>> Megan
>>> I would not post that in this group. People will blame the woman, and
>>> say it is her fault that she was abused, and she deserved it, and that
>>> she is lying and no one is abusing her, and that she is merely looking
>>> for attention.- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Get over yourself!
>
> I am being very serious. Any woman who comes out and talks about her
> abuse risks getting abused.
What has this to do with what Megan posted? She posted from a pamphlet that
defines abuse. No one "came out" or talked about abuse.
> In fact, you just played into my hand, you
> did the very thing I said would happen and proved my point
> immediately.
Try finding someone familiar with English and have them re-write the above
sentence so that it can be deciphered. Do you know anyone who speaks both
Atlantish and English who could assist you?
> Women will backlash and men will abuse. Please, if you
> are being abused, do not write in this newsgroup, until you are strong
> enough to withstand criticism for coming out and telling your story.
You have no say over who posts, what subjects they choose to post on. You
are probably the worst offender this group has seen with regard to posts
that attract criticism. How can you lecture others when you can't manage to
stop posting incessant, uninteresting, off topic, incredibly personal
detail yourself?
> Everything is political, but don't tell your story until you are safe.
> I really mean that.
You really mean nothing. You can't because you understand nothing.
Tony
Vagabond
Blamed and shamed. Hmmm. Sounds familiar. Isn't that what members of your
Church did to you?
> I know when girls are blamed for being raped.
I saw the Exorcist also. What other instances are you referring to?
> It was evident to me that a poster in this group was blamed for being
> raped when she was twelve. I knew this without her saying this.
You know things about people you have never met, things that they have
never mentioned. There is a word for people like you.
It isn't psychic, although it is some what similar. Psychotic is the word.
Are you familiar with it?
> And she hated me for that. This is not the kind of thing that should be
> discussed in this group.
So she didn't mention it, but you regarded it as being discussed?
> It is off topic.
No it isn't, it can be at times very much central to the core of the issues
this group was founded for.
> Why you are allowing this
> abusive Republican wealthy dishonest veteran male arrogant proud
> pompous jerk troll to post here is beyond me.
What, you don't know? He bribed us all.
Didn't you get your bribe? I think that perhaps you should report him to
the Bribery & Corruption Committee for failing to bribe you. Or the FBI,
whichever will ignore you first.
> You should be driving
> him off with stakes.
Stakes? What century do you THINK that you're living in?
Tony
Vagabond
> On Nov 19, 10:38 pm, huey.calli...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> I know when girls are blamed for being raped. It was evident to me
>>> that a poster in this group was blamed for being raped when she was
>>> twelve. I knew this without her saying this.
>> Then why did you say that she couldn't possibly understand the horrific
>> experiences you'd been through?
>>
> Just who exactly do you think we are discussing?
No one aside from you is discussing anything.
We are watching with amusement as you discuss things that were not said
with people who are not there. You are incredibly vacuous, plus
unbelievably stupid, and that combination can hold some degree of
entertainment value. Think Three Stooges but all in one head. Your head.
> I won't name her. By
> the way, you set a horrendous example for your girlfriend. You should
> be ashamed of yourself. She imitates your disgusting behavior. You are
> blessed she is barren. All the world needs is a child you have
> conceived. Its bad enough you have a submissive girlfriend to mold to
> your standard.
Are you back from your little excursion yet?
> BTW I don't give a whit what you think of me personally.
Oh yes you do, you wouldn't have made thousands of posts complaining about
imaginary damage to your non-existent character if you didn't care what
people on line thought of you.
> I think you
> are a belligerent, aggressive, militant, violent, arrogant prick.
Are you trying flattery now?
> You really ought to get a handle on your own issues.
That sort of thing is rumored to cause eyesight problems. Is that true? How
is your eyesight?
Tony
Vagabond
>> This was not an indictment of women who have been abused. It's a
>> recognition that the abuse strips away power and the sense of self so
>> thoroughly that these women find themselves in horrible situations and
>> have absolutely no idea how to get out of them. It is a tragedy and
>> more awareness and support is sorely needed.
>>
>> Bella
>
> Maybe changing social attitudes towards victims of domestic violence,
> instead of blaming them and shaming them, might be a good start. Or
> perhaps changing social attitudes towards women who become traumatized
> and depressed as a result of alcoholic and/or abusive marriages would
> be another start. Or finally, not blaming and shaming women who are
> unhappy and choose to divorce their alcoholic and/or abusive husbands
> could be another excellent strategy. Especially for those in positions
> of power in society, and/or the "mental health profession". It starts
> here. Changed attitudes aid recovery. Attending meetings REALLY helps,
> especially if one wants to present oneself as some sort of "expert" in
> this particular recovery group which does not adhere to the 12 steps.
Good writing is writing with nothing superfluous. I'll help you by
rewriting the above for you, removing everything that wasn't necessary to
say what you *really* wanted to say.
"Stop blaming *ME*, nothing was my fault, it was always the other guy."
There, wasn't that much simpler?
Tony
Troia
Wow, that was just freakin' amazing, a sort of "best of Usenet" moment.
Shirley writes something that seems to make utter, complete absolute
sense, and then you come along and show it from another perspective that
also makes utter, complete absolute sense but ends up with a wholly
different outcome.
Thought-provoking, between the two of you, at the very least!
-- Troia
Atlanta
Well, Mister Cameron, is that correct? You have shown yourself out to
be arrogant, prideful, boastful. I like how you shame the woman and
blame her for murdering the man. Every woman knows there are domestic
violence shelters. That's classic. The woman angers the man. Also
classic. You prove my point. And now you are the steam engine behind
this group, defending Megan.
You know what I don't like about Usenet groups? The personal
involvement of the members makes objectivity nigh impossible. You have
all but driven David off of this group.
I have to comment on the barren woman and the woman who puts sex
offenders behind bars, apparently. These two women both come from
abusive childhoods, one of them may have had a prior abusive
relationship, and now they seem to be in positions of power making
decisions that avenge their pasts against their perpetrators. I am
sorry. I said it once, but I will say it again. Sexual offenders have
families too. Seeing "mental health professionals" viciously gloat
over their "victories" at locking those bad guys up is sickening and
disheartening. Its as bad as the members of my religion showing our
flaws out in public. Its wholly inappropriate.
Not to mention the language you all use. They sure didn't educate you
in language in those higher institutions you graduated from. You seem
to be lacking basic manners.
For all you adult children, becoming a "mental health professional" or
law enforcement officer or lawyer or soldier or whatever else it is
you do to compensate for your childhood issues or work them out is
ultimately not healthy, for you, or those you serve. Work is not
therapy for adult child issues. In fact, work can be an addiction. Our
jobs are not our identities. They are a part of who we are, but not
all of us. If you go to college to study to be a substance abuse
counselor, and you are a former substance abuser, they have very
strong boundaries around you telling your story. It seems a lot of
people here were motivated to go into their chosen professions by
their own childhoods and now they somehow think they have surpassed
other people. It is a pretty common opinion that some of the
"craziest" people enter the "mental health" profession.
You remind me of someone I know who doesn't feel right about
themselves if they don't have a job. Never mind they run their body
into the ground through major stress. They never take a vacation, they
have no social life. This society is messed up in that only values
people for what they "contribute to society". From the EO perspective,
every person has value, whether it is the homeless person on the
street, or the malnourished orphan in the group home, or the
physically disabled person.
I am shocked and horrified, as I always am, by the lack of
humanitarianism and compassion on this group, especially from people
who avow to support Amnesty International! Why not work on your own
souls and really affect change in the world?
Ah secular humanism, ain't it great! And in a recovery group. Never
mind the fact that the foundation of recovery is spiritual progress.
We don't talk about that stuff here, we are beyond all that. Never
mind any of that "God talk". We don't need "God" in our lives.
huey.c...@gmail.com
> I have to comment on the barren woman and the woman who puts sex
> offenders behind bars, apparently. These two women both come from
> abusive childhoods, one of them may have had a prior abusive
> relationship, and now they seem to be in positions of power making
> decisions that avenge their pasts against their perpetrators.
Do you just make up whatever squirrel-brained shit that fits your theory
of the moment?
> I am sorry. I said it once, but I will say it again. Sexual offenders
> have families too. Seeing "mental health professionals" viciously
> gloat over their "victories" at locking those bad guys up is sickening
> and disheartening.
Yeah, you're right. They should all just go free. I mean, seriously: YOU
don't have any sense of personal responsibility for any of your actions,
why the hell should anybody else?
> Its as bad as the members of my religion showing our flaws out in
> public. Its wholly inappropriate.
You should probably stop, then.
> Not to mention the language you all use. They sure didn't educate you
> in language in those higher institutions you graduated from. You seem
> to be lacking basic manners.
While you come by your lack of basic manners naturally?
> For all you adult children, becoming a "mental health professional" or
> law enforcement officer or lawyer or soldier or whatever else it is
> you do to compensate for your childhood issues or work them out is
> ultimately not healthy, for you, or those you serve.
So we should all follow the lead of you, and be a drain on society, and
serve no one?
> Work is not therapy for adult child issues.
Meanwhile, obsessively posting to usenet turns out to have fabulous
results!
> In fact, work can be an addiction.
Oddly enough, so can obsessively posting to usenet.
> Our jobs are not our identities.
No, but at least we HAVE both of those.
> They are a part of who we are, but not all of us. If you go to college
> to study to be a substance abuse counselor, and you are a former
> substance abuser, they have very strong boundaries around you telling
> your story.
How would you know?
> It seems a lot of people here were motivated to go into their chosen
> professions by their own childhoods and now they somehow think they
> have surpassed other people. It is a pretty common opinion that some
> of the "craziest" people enter the "mental health" profession.
I look forward to hearing which school you've chosen.
> You remind me of someone I know who doesn't feel right about
> themselves if they don't have a job.
You remind me of a welfare queen.
> Never mind they run their body into the ground through major stress.
> They never take a vacation, they have no social life. This society is
> messed up in that only values people for what they "contribute to
> society".
Tired of people giving you shit for being a drain on society, are you?
> From the EO perspective, every person has value, whether it is the
> homeless person on the street, or the malnourished orphan in the group
> home, or the physically disabled person.
Every person has value, yes. Some are more equal than others.
> I am shocked and horrified, as I always am, by the lack of
> humanitarianism and compassion on this group, especially from people
> who avow to support Amnesty International! Why not work on your own
> souls and really affect change in the world?
Realy affecting change in the world would... ...value what they
"contribute to society". ...wait: didn't you just say that was messed
up? Oh, yeah, I forgot: you're COMPLETELY INSANE.
> Ah secular humanism, ain't it great! And in a recovery group. Never
> mind the fact that the foundation of recovery is spiritual progress.
The foundation of recovery is to first stop the harm. Let us know when
you get there.
> We don't talk about that stuff here, we are beyond all that. Never
> mind any of that "God talk". We don't need "God" in our lives.
No, we don't need YOU in our lives. Fortunately for us, you are not God.
--
Huey
Renay
"Bella_is_Noir" <bella...@bobella.com> wrote in message
news:47425A62...@bobella.com...
HORSERADISH!
maybe we really were separated at birth.
Renay
Vagabond
No. I am sometimes arrogant, I do have pride in many things and people, but
I do not boast. It is a waste of time to boast on usenet, anyone can say
anything, so what is the point?
> I like how you shame the woman and
> blame her for murdering the man.
What woman would that be? (Do you ever actually READ the posts you reply to?)
> Every woman knows there are domestic
> violence shelters. That's classic. The woman angers the man. Also
> classic. You prove my point. And now you are the steam engine behind
> this group, defending Megan.
Megan doesn't need defending - I have no idea how your illogical thought
processes and distorted logic have arrived at that conclusion, but it is
totally incorrect. I will support Megan, but I have no need to defend her,
she does that quite admirably herself.
> You know what I don't like about Usenet groups? The personal
> involvement of the members makes objectivity nigh impossible. You have
> all but driven David off of this group.
Sure, that's the answer, a usenet group with no participants makes absolute
sense. To Atlanta.
>
> I have to comment on the barren woman and the woman who puts sex
> offenders behind bars, apparently. These two women both come from
> abusive childhoods, one of them may have had a prior abusive
> relationship, and now they seem to be in positions of power making
> decisions that avenge their pasts against their perpetrators. I am
> sorry. I said it once, but I will say it again. Sexual offenders have
> families too. Seeing "mental health professionals" viciously gloat
> over their "victories" at locking those bad guys up is sickening and
> disheartening. Its as bad as the members of my religion showing our
> flaws out in public. Its wholly inappropriate.
> Not to mention the language you all use. They sure didn't educate you
> in language in those higher institutions you graduated from. You seem
> to be lacking basic manners.
Have you ever considered sticking to the thread? Let me know if it happens,
I will be extremely interested.
Tony
mcs
"Scorpio" <mwhi...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:f2ea4621-4526-419c...@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>I saw a pamphlet today and I want to share it as we have touched on
> this subject briefly. It is a pamphlet from our local Women's Refuge.
>
> DOES YOUR PARNTER OR SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY...
>
> Put you down, constantly criticise or call you names?
>
> away?
>
> Follow and check up on you or repeatedly email/call/text you?
>
> Get Jealous or angry easily?
>
> Not let you have any money or friends?
>
> Force you to have sex or do degrading things?
>
> Hit, choke, push, slap, burn, kick, shout at you,or throw things?
>
> These are power and control tactics used by abusive people to control
> their partners or family members.
>
> ARE YOU FEELING...
>
> Like you're walking on egg-shells?
>
> Like your're going crazy?
>
> Confused, depressed , frustrated or anxious?
>
> Tried of trying to keep the peace?
>
> Alone and isolated?
>
> Worried that the violence stops you being the Mum you want to be?
>
> Fearful for yourself or your children's lives?
>
> If you answered yes to some or these questions, you are probably being
> abused. Violence can involve psychological, emotional, financial,
> physical and or sexual abuse. The violence will get worse over time
> if nothing is done to stop the violent person.
>
> Violence affects women at any age, with or without children,
> regardless of ethnicity, sexuality, economic circumstances or
> education.
>
> it is a heavy problem. Take it from someone who knows - decide that
> you are worthy of being happy!!!!!
> Megan
its a tradegy compounded by the fact that often a family situation in which
the women grew up in attracted the exact familiar pattern when choosing a
mate. If a woman saw all this before for example, in her father - mother
relationship she might be more vulnerable to feel attracted to a very
dominant man to end up marrying and getting in the exact same kind of
relationship that her parents had, maybe worse ..I think one tends to never
question if their family is normal as long as woman doesn't act out prior to
getting in a unhealthy relationship..Its sort of a match that needs someone
to lite it before the fire happens Some women by miracle are able to see
what has happened early and decide to never let it happen to their personal
lives again (good). I think personally one of the deepest things to infect
people and hardest things to guard against is dysfunction from poor role
models in family , friends and or in society.
"steve
M. Shirley Chong
> As I stated, Megan, your post should have had a disclaimer that any
> abused woman who is not sufficiently strong enough should not reply.
Megan's post needed no disclaimer. This is usenet. Anyone reading
usenet can be expected to realize they could get any type of reply
at all.
> As I told you, any woman who dares to come out and tell her story will
> get blamed and shamed. I know when girls are blamed for being raped.
Only in your mind.
> It was evident to me that a poster in this group was blamed for being
> raped when she was twelve. I knew this without her saying this. And
> she hated me for that.
HUH?
If you are referring to me, the only person I have ever felt blamed
me for being raped is *YOU*. Oh, and the man who raped me. You and
he are oddly similar in many ways.
What's the matter, Atlanta, haven't gotten your fix of confrontation
lately? Gotta stir up shit with your nasty tongue to satisfy your
appetite for crisis? "
M. Shirley Chong "That would be Ms. Chong to you, Atlanta."
M. Shirley Chong
> Im trying hard not to be gleeful, and failing.
Oh, why not indulge? You earned it!
> We've been playing
> footsie with this guy for years now, and thanks to the recent shakeup
> the political landscape has changed in such a way that he might finally
> get treated the way he should have been all along: with no preference!
>
> The fact this went down just before the holiday is coincidental but
> awesome, he can sit and stew until everyone gets back to the office.
> He's not going to get what he wants anyway, but making him wait to make
> his demands and try to convince us is going to be torture for him :)
Oooooooooh yeah. Nothing like marinating in his own bile to make him
into an exceptionally tasty morsel. <snicker>
> I can only imagine. I am not a good mentor for the job I do: I'm very
> good at what I do but it is impossible for me to explain it in depth
> since a great deal of it is intuition and pattern-recognition, once you
> get past the basic "this is how you use the tools" stuff. Ferreting out
> the information that leads to me uncovering nests like the one I found
> today is largely a function of my experience, the people I know, and my
> ability to see patterns and tie weird isolated facts together. It is not
> something I know how to teach.
I bet it could be tested for, though.
Hey, I figured out how I organize my key word searches on Google for
best yield. Remind me to tell you.
Shirley
M. Shirley Chong
>> Then the paper ran an editorial pointing out that it's apparently less
>> awful for a man who abuses his wife to finally kill her than it is for
>> a woman who has been repeatedly abused to finally kill her husband.
And now I remember that the paper was the Times-Picayune, of course.
How could I forget that???
Bella_is_Noir wrote:
> Yup...sat through an absolutely horrible parole hearing for a woman who
> had, after years of abuse, shot her husband. She moved away from him,
> he kidnapped her, dragged her back and beat her within an inch of her
> life. The small town in which she resided showed up at her hearing and
> testified on her behalf. The board denied her parole. I still don't
> understand how they could possibly deny her.
In similar cases, parole board members have said stupid stuff about
sending a message that killing is not okay or that they don't want
to give women the idea that if they claim they were abused they can
kill their husbands.
Completely avoids the fact that married men are (statistically)
safest in their own homes and married women are at most risk when at
home. Just who needs to get a message?
Shirley
M. Shirley Chong
>> Then the paper ran an editorial pointing out that it's apparently less
>> awful for a man who abuses his wife to finally kill her than it is for
>> a woman who has been repeatedly abused to finally kill her husband.
Vagabond > wrote:
> The way the courts tend to look at is like this. A man who abuses a
> woman is living with someone who rightly or wrongly angers him, and
> being much stronger, he can easily dominate, (abuse) and possibly
> eventually kill that woman in a fit of rage without really meaning or
> planning to. He comes home from work after a few drinks (nearly all wife
> killers have alcohol in their system if arrested "in situ"), gets into a
> row, and flies off the handle physically. This is regarded as a crime of
> passion, something that in earlier times in some jurisdictions, could
> see the person walking free. He may be a total bastard, a gutless coward
> to attack a woman who is smaller and weaker, but it is often regarded as
> manslaughter, not murder.
Except that if the abuse itself were truly a crime of passion, then
it wouldn't be hidden so carefully. Men would just beat their wives
whenever they were angered but that's not what happens. Almost all
domestic abuse takes place without witnesses. He *is* controlling
himself, exercising control over his emotions even if he denies that
he is able to do so.
> On the other hand a woman, who is physically weaker, who kills a man
> must usually plan carefully. It is premeditation, and that is true
> murder, not a crime of passion, because it is motivated by revenge, not
> fear as is so often claimed. If it was fear they can easily run away.
> There isn't a woman alive in Western society who doesn't know that there
> are women's groups and shelters available to them. If there is a fight
> and during that fight, the woman grabs a weapon and uses it, then the
> courts usually will regard the homicide as justified. Unfortunately more
> and more such cases obviously involve planning and a very large degree
> of premeditation.
Even in cases where there was no evidence of premeditation, women
usually get a more severe sentence than men.
For instance, in one case I know very well (because I knew the
family), the husband abused the wife and children for years. The
abuse wasn't all that hidden, he caused obvious and crippling
injuries. He cut off half of one kid's foot; on another occasion, he
used an axe to split another child's hand. There was plenty of
evidence he was a hideously abusive jerk and that's without the
testimony of his daughters that he raped them all.
One day one of the kids had just killed some small game with a
shotgun, brought it in and was about to start cleaning the gun. He
heard his parents in the next room and realized there was another
episode of abuse underway, so he slipped out the window leaving the
gun on the table. The argument/abuse moved into the room the kid had
just vacated.
It hadn't gotten to physical blows yet but it was definitely headed
that way. The wife was backing away from her husband and as he
advanced on her, she bumped into the table and heard the shotgun
move. She grabbed it and used it as a club to fend him off for a few
minutes, landing a few light blows. He kept coming, grabbed the end
of the shotgun and she pulled the trigger, not even knowing if it
were loaded or not. It was loaded and he was killed.
She was convicted of murder in the second degree.
Less than two months after she was convicted, a man in the same
county literally beat his wife to death with his fists and a tire
iron. She died of internal blood loss because her arms and upper
body were literally pulped from the repeated blows. He was convicted
of manslaughter.
> It might seem unfair, but unfairness is not justification for
> premeditated murder. A crime of passion is more akin to manslaughter
> than murder and is regarded by many courts as deserving a lesser penalty.
I'm questioning just how much of a crime of passion murder that
results from abuse really is. If he were truly unable to control his
emotions, he wouldn't be so careful to hide the abuse from witnesses.
> There are answers to the problem of marital abuse but aside theoretical
> discussion, I have not heard of anything practical being attempted.
>
> I have some thoughts that if applied would severely reduce domestic
> violence but although they would undoubtedly be effective, most would
> regard them as too radical. They would involve a complete overhaul of
> the Family Law Acts and major changes to taxation and various licencing
> authorities procedures.
I am most interested.
I have one myself but it will probably never come about. <sigh>
Shirley
Fnord Prefect Fnord
>> In fact, you just played into my hand, you did the very thing I said
>> would happen and proved my point immediately.
>
> Try finding someone familiar with English and have them re-write the
> above sentence so that it can be deciphered. Do you know anyone who
> speaks both Atlantish and English who could assist you?
>
something like:
"you did just what I hoped and expected you would, and I'm gloating."
Fnord Prefect Fnord
Its bad enough you have a submissive girlfriend to mold to
> your standard.
Huey's girlfriend is not moldy!
Fnord Prefect Fnord
> Is this woman being deliberately obnoxious, or is this just how she is?
> I want to barf.
Have you tried drinking peroxide? Your vomit fetish is tedious.
coyote
Indeed not! I shower regularly AND I dry off carefully!
coyote
> You know what I don't like about Usenet groups? The personal
> involvement of the members makes objectivity nigh impossible. You have
> all but driven David off of this group.
He's not up to the mark for the current crop of posters. The fact he's
gone quiet is both a relief and not a surprise.
> I have to comment on the barren woman
I unfiltered you because I'm bored, Atlanta, and I saw you talking shit
about me behind my back as is your wont. You clearly want me to come out
and play with you, so here I am. Let's play!
Your attempts to hurt me with the fact I am sterile is pretty damn funny
considering I happily paid a doctor to make me that way. Being barren is
not the insult or weapon you seem to hope it will be.
BTW, women who are finished bearing children or do not want them, have a
chat with your obgyn about Novasure. It has changed my life, and I could
not be happier with the outcome.
> and the woman who puts sex
> offenders behind bars, apparently. These two women both come from
> abusive childhoods, one of them may have had a prior abusive
> relationship, and now they seem to be in positions of power making
> decisions that avenge their pasts against their perpetrators. I am
> sorry. I said it once, but I will say it again. Sexual offenders have
> families too. Seeing "mental health professionals" viciously gloat
> over their "victories" at locking those bad guys up is sickening and
> disheartening.
If you are talking about me, and in view of my recent post about my job,
you pretty much have to be - BWAH!!! This little rant of yours proves to
me you have no concept of what my job actually is.
> Its as bad as the members of my religion showing our
> flaws out in public. Its wholly inappropriate.
Perhaps you oughta stop it then, huh?
> Not to mention the language you all use. They sure didn't educate you
> in language in those higher institutions you graduated from. You seem
> to be lacking basic manners.
Fuck you, too.
Scorpio
> "Scorpio" <mwhit...@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good post Steve. I agree entirely.
Megan
coyote
> Huey's homeland? Is he not from around there?
It entirely depends on how you define "around there" :)
He's from the Midwest. It's about a 12 hour drive from here.
coyote
> coyote wrote:
>
>> Im trying hard not to be gleeful, and failing.
>
> Oh, why not indulge? You earned it!
I have to admit to a certain amount of quiet cackling, yes. And one
phone call with MJ that started and ended with snickering.
>> We've been playing footsie with this guy for years now, and thanks to
>> the recent shakeup the political landscape has changed in such a way
>> that he might finally get treated the way he should have been all
>> along: with no preference!
>>
>> The fact this went down just before the holiday is coincidental but
>> awesome, he can sit and stew until everyone gets back to the office.
>> He's not going to get what he wants anyway, but making him wait to
>> make his demands and try to convince us is going to be torture for him :)
>
> Oooooooooh yeah. Nothing like marinating in his own bile to make him
> into an exceptionally tasty morsel. <snicker>
He's going to be (is?) Very, Very Upset. Oh, to be a fly onna wall!
>> I can only imagine. I am not a good mentor for the job I do: I'm very
>> good at what I do but it is impossible for me to explain it in depth
>> since a great deal of it is intuition and pattern-recognition, once
>> you get past the basic "this is how you use the tools" stuff.
>> Ferreting out the information that leads to me uncovering nests like
>> the one I found today is largely a function of my experience, the
>> people I know, and my ability to see patterns and tie weird isolated
>> facts together. It is not something I know how to teach.
>
> I bet it could be tested for, though.
Hrm. How?
> Hey, I figured out how I organize my key word searches on Google for
> best yield. Remind me to tell you.
Pop onto AIM some time and talk to me, woman. How is the n00 puppy?
Jani
"M. Shirley Chong" <n...@spamfo.rme> wrote in message
news:1drhb8....@news.alt.net...
[]
> Except that if the abuse itself were truly a crime of passion, then it
> wouldn't be hidden so carefully. Men would just beat their wives whenever
> they were angered but that's not what happens. Almost all domestic abuse
> takes place without witnesses. He *is* controlling himself, exercising
> control over his emotions even if he denies that he is able to do so.
And the abuser is, in most cases, a lot more "clever" than the abused. The
more the abuser can justify it or conceal it, the harder it is for the
victim to get help.
Jani
ao
>
> Have you ever considered sticking to the thread? Let me know if it
> happens, I will be extremely interested.
>
> Tony
Yes, I have noticed you are QUITE interested in my writing. Good. I will
write about the traditions in Al-Anon later then. I will use the ODAT as
the basis of my postings. Again, what qualifies you to be in this group?
In 12 step programs, in recovery, we leave our professions at the door.
Don't judge us as a "mental health professional". You have absolutely no
right at all to do that. That is straight up abusive. You have no clue
how much pain my childhood continues to cause me, even today, how it
hurts me so. You ridicule and mock my pain and suffering. You have no
idea what my life does to me, what I see, what I hear, what I witness,
what I feel. You just disrespect and degrade me. I am fully qualified to
be here. My childhood was so bad it sent me into a disabling depression
after I broke up my marriage. And you blame me for that. You are insane,
buddy, not me.
ao
ao
has turned his girlfriend into a mocker just like him, and its ugly as
hell. They are unattractive as all get out. Their personalities are vile.
ao
have more creative ways of expressing my revulsion towards "mental
health professionals" who degrade other people publicly and than gloat
over their alcoholic marriages with glee as if they were better than
other people. Only a codependent would marry an alcoholic so she could
feel superior to him and manage him. That's sick as hell. Now she can
prove to her self that her family is a success because she has a sick
husband that she can control. Bravo! Way to overcome that abusive
childhood. And then she goes to work and makes decisions about sex
offenders and further proves her worth to society. What a spectacular
woman. She is my hero. I worship her.
Jani
"Vagabond" <""no_one\"@ n o_where.net"> wrote in message
news:5qfg7oF...@mid.individual.net...
[]
> The way the courts tend to look at is like this. A man who abuses a woman
> is living with someone who rightly or wrongly angers him, and being much
> stronger, he can easily dominate, (abuse) and possibly eventually kill
> that woman in a fit of rage without really meaning or planning to. He
> comes home from work after a few drinks (nearly all wife killers have
> alcohol in their system if arrested "in situ"), gets into a row, and flies
> off the handle physically. This is regarded as a crime of passion,
> something that in earlier times in some jurisdictions, could see the
> person walking free.
A "crime of passion" was always considered to be motivated by some
unacceptable behaviour by the murder victim, though - finding one's wife in
bed with another man was sufficient justification, simply being there at
home when the perpetrator came home drunk and spoiling for a row, was not.
He
> may be a total bastard, a gutless coward to attack a woman who is smaller
> and weaker, but it is often regarded as manslaughter, not murder.
On the other hand a woman, who is physically weaker, who kills a man must
> usually plan carefully. It is premeditation, and that is true murder, not
> a crime of passion, because it is motivated by revenge, not fear as is so
> often claimed. If it was fear they can easily run away. There isn't a
> woman alive in Western society who doesn't know that there are women's
> groups and shelters available to them.
Shelters are very temporary, and depend on the woman being able to get there
in the first place. Not to mention that the children can't stay in the
shelter forever, and will be at risk as soon as they go to school.
If there is a fight and during that fight, the
> woman grabs a weapon and uses it, then the courts usually will regard the
> homicide as justified. Unfortunately more and more such cases obviously
> involve planning and a very large degree of premeditation.
I notice that you say "this is how the courts see it" as opposed to "this is
what actually happens". That's an important distinction.
>
> It might seem unfair, but unfairness is not justification for premeditated
> murder. A crime of passion is more akin to manslaughter than murder and is
> regarded by many courts as deserving a lesser penalty.
True, but I'm not convinced that all cases of women killing abusive husbands
are premeditated in the way that you describe, or that "crime of passion" is
the right way to describe it. A man (or, indeed a woman) who regards their
partner or their children as objects to be beaten and abused whenever they
are angry has already "premeditated" severe injury to them.
>
> There are answers to the problem of marital abuse but aside theoretical
> discussion, I have not heard of anything practical being attempted.
>
> I have some thoughts that if applied would severely reduce domestic
> violence but although they would undoubtedly be effective, most would
> regard them as too radical. They would involve a complete overhaul of the
> Family Law Acts and major changes to taxation and various licencing
> authorities procedures.
Well, I'd be interested.
Jani
Scorpio
Here is a fine example of someone still cashing in on playing
victim.
Megan
ao
living in a homeless shelter, by my disability which is impoverishing
me. You are so clueless. This is really life, not some pamphlet. I wrote
a lot about this group in my journal but I don't know about posting it,
its not worth it. My Orthodox friend told me not to feed your hatred,
just to ignore you and you will go away. I think he is right.
Scorpio
> On Nov 19, 10:38 pm, huey.calli...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > I know when girls are blamed for being raped. It was evident to me
> > > that a poster in this group was blamed for being raped when she was
> > > twelve. I knew this without her saying this.
>
> > experiences you'd been through?
>
> Just who exactly do you think we are discussing? I won't name her. By
> the way, you set a horrendous example for your girlfriend. You should
> be ashamed of yourself. She imitates your disgusting behavior. You are
> blessed she is barren. All the world needs is a child you have
> conceived. Its bad enough you have a submissive girlfriend to mold to
> your standard.
> BTW I don't give a whit what you think of me personally. I think you
> are a belligerent, aggressive, militant, violent, arrogant prick. You
> really ought to get a handle on your own issues.
...and of course the roles can be reversed too. Some men do gravitate
to abusive, controlling women like this one. If any man is reading
this and is thinking of getting into a relationship with it, stop
right there. Count the red flags on this post alone before you go any
further.
Megan
coyote
My Orthodox friend told me not to feed your hatred,
> just to ignore you and you will go away. I think he is right.
People have been telling you that for months and months and you haven't
listened yet. Please, make good on the threat. Ignoring YOU does not
seem to work, so...please. Ignore us.
Bella_is_Noir
>
> ...and of course the roles can be reversed too. Some men do gravitate
> to abusive, controlling women like this one. If any man is reading
> this and is thinking of getting into a relationship with it, stop
> right there. Count the red flags on this post alone before you go any
> further.
> Megan
My grandpa, who was a very smart man, sat me down one day and had a talk
with me. He told me that I should never depend on a man to support me
and that I was responsible for myself. He told me that if I chose to
marry, I should choose a man who respected me and treated me like the
smart young woman I was. Along with the "if he hits you, remember that
he has to sleep sometime", there was also "and if you hit him, remember
that you have to sleep sometime". Pretty cool for a man who was born in
1914, huh?
Bella
Scorpio
Yes I'll say, pretty cool. Tell me, was this man your mother's
father? Just wondering.
Megan
Atlanta
For those reading this group, abuse is not just hitting. I am having a
lovely conversation with a young sweet priests son in Lebanon as we
speak. I am neither abusive nor controlling when treated right. This
is a recovery group for adult children. Many of us learn to be
controlling to survive. Quit beating me up. I am not interested in
your men. I would never get involved with a man who would get involved
with a promiscuous woman. I am not in this group looking for a man. I
have a principle not to get involved with men in the program. I have a
message about a man in the program who was hitting on me, and married,
and directing me to his work number and email address, but why should
I post it? I will just get ridiculed. You really are clueless, Megan.
My ex husband never respected me. And I didn't respect myself when I
met him. And you have the nerve to let the Republican veteran blame me
for the fact he abused me. I am telling my story in this group and you
are just making fun of me. That's not what this group is for. Just go
away and leave me alone.
Scorpio
>
> - Show quoted text -
Clueless? I Love that movie!
Megan
Bella_is_Noir
Yes, he was my maternal grandfather, amazingly enough. He was an
alcoholic for most of my life. He sobered up six months before his
death. I was sixteen and he had this talk with me just about a month
before he died. There is some theory that the personality disordered
have a genetic propensity for their behaviors and that certain
environmental factors kick it in full force. Mom was definitely
personality disordered as well as a drug addict. She was one of the
most miserable people I ever knew. Her life would probably have been
better had my grandparents been sober. It doesn't abdicate her
responsibility for the things she did, (heaven knows she spent her
entire life blaming everybody else), but that understanding makes it
easier not to despise her.
That interlude with my grandfather is one of the few 'adult-related'
happy memories I have from childhood and is a treasured memory.
Bella
Bella
Atlanta
By the way, I picked up a book on BPD on the way home from church on
Sunday. Its in my pile of books to read. I am pursuing BPD and it is
very hard between caring for my daughter and AA and having to
coordinate all these schedules, and lack of personal transportation
and child care. I would think that you who are so interested in
"mental health" would want to help me. God have mercy on you. My young
friend all the way in Lebanon is more willing to help me than you are.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Scorpio
>
> - Show quoted text -
For christs' sakes will someone change the bloody
channel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Megan
Atlanta
Can't deal with Jesus Christ shedding his blood for your sake? Deal
with it. That's right, he died on the cross for you, he bled for you.
And you spurn him.
Scorpio
>
> - Show quoted text -
Stuck record, stuck record, stuck record, stuck record, stuck record,
stuck record......
Hey Coyote, thought you were allowed to come out and play too?
Megan
coyote
What "help" do you want from us?
coyote
She's just so fucking boring. How are you, Megan?
Bella_is_Noir
>
> What "help" do you want from us?
>
>
I want to change this thread to 'Women in Relationships with Controlling
Cats". That damned Cookie!
Last Friday, she brought a mouse into my house. It wasn't dead. Not by
a long shot was this mouse dead. It escaped her and is now having the
time of it's little mousie life in my house. Will the damned cat hunt?
Hell, no. The Mighty Hunter only hunts outdoors.
She's not supposed to jump on my computer desk or Beloved's dresser.
Yesterday, she jumped on the computer desk while I was posting. I
ignored her because negative reinforcement is still reinforcement and is
counterproductive to breaking a bad habit. I then went to Beloved's
dresser to put on my makeup. She jumped on the dresser. Once again, I
ignored her. She then launched herself from the dresser to my shoulder
and perched there. She's a tall 14 pound cat and it isn't easy for such
a large kitty to perch like a parrot. I still have the claw marks.
We had FINALLY convinced her that it was necessary to drink from her
Fresh Flow water dish instead of the toilet or the bathroom sink. Some
XY-type person who shall remain nameless began leaving the toilet seat
up, again. Therefore, I have a bellowing cat who drinks from the toilet
and then expects to groom me. I think not. I gave the un-named XY
person some negative reinforcement and began to retrain the cat. She's
still yelling at me. I think we need to go to couple's counseling.
Bella
coyote
> coyote wrote:
>
>>
>> What "help" do you want from us?
>>
>>
>
>
> I want to change this thread to 'Women in Relationships with Controlling
> Cats".
Ok!
> Last Friday, she brought a mouse into my house. It wasn't dead. Not by
> a long shot was this mouse dead. It escaped her and is now having the
> time of it's little mousie life in my house. Will the damned cat hunt?
> Hell, no. The Mighty Hunter only hunts outdoors.
*snrk* My Mom's cat used to do that too. My special favorite (gurk!) was
when he would come eat his tasty mouse under my bed when I was trying to
sleep. That is NOT a reassuring sound track. More often he would take
his catch to the bath tub, where he could enjoy torturing his mousie
without fear of it escaping, and hey, easy cleanup, right? I should have
been THANKFUL.
Gawd.
> She's not supposed to jump on my computer desk or Beloved's dresser.
> Yesterday, she jumped on the computer desk while I was posting. I
> ignored her because negative reinforcement is still reinforcement and is
> counterproductive to breaking a bad habit. I then went to Beloved's
> dresser to put on my makeup. She jumped on the dresser. Once again, I
> ignored her. She then launched herself from the dresser to my shoulder
> and perched there. She's a tall 14 pound cat and it isn't easy for such
> a large kitty to perch like a parrot. I still have the claw marks.
Owie! I'm sure Shirley might have some ideas... :)
> We had FINALLY convinced her that it was necessary to drink from her
> Fresh Flow water dish instead of the toilet or the bathroom sink. Some
> XY-type person who shall remain nameless began leaving the toilet seat
> up, again. Therefore, I have a bellowing cat who drinks from the toilet
> and then expects to groom me. I think not. I gave the un-named XY
> person some negative reinforcement and began to retrain the cat. She's
> still yelling at me. I think we need to go to couple's counseling.
Do let me know how that goes. I have some cat-challenges myself. It is
amazing how much noise and damage one 5 pound kitten can cause.
howard...@gmail.com
> On Nov 20, 3:23 pm, Bella_is_Noir <bella_be...@bobella.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Scorpio wrote:
>
> > > ...and of course the roles can be reversed too. Some men do gravitate
> > > to abusive, controlling women like this one. If any man is reading
> > > this and is thinking of getting into a relationship with it, stop
> > > right there. Count the red flags on this post alone before you go any
> > > further.
> > > Megan
>
> > My grandpa, who was a very smart man, sat me down one day and had a talk
> > with me. He told me that I should never depend on a man to support me
> > and that I was responsible for myself. He told me that if I chose to
> > marry, I should choose a man who respected me and treated me like the
> > smart young woman I was. Along with the "if he hits you, remember that
> > he has to sleep sometime", there was also "and if you hit him, remember
> > that you have to sleep sometime". Pretty cool for a man who was born in
> > 1914, huh?
>
> > Bella
>
> For those reading this group, abuse is not just hitting. I am having a
> lovely conversation with a young sweet priests son in Lebanon as we
> speak. I am neither abusive nor controlling when treated right.
Interesting. What exactly was your four year old daughter doing to
you that was so bad that it caused you to physically abuse her?
Unknown
wrote:
[snip]
>You are such a bitch. ...
> You are so clueless.
> This is really life, not some pamphlet. ...
> My Orthodox friend told me not to feed your hatred,
>just to ignore you and you will go away. I think he is right.
Gee you are doing such a fine job of listening.
--
Grant
Atlanta
Let's see, you could start by finding out if I can make an appointment
for food stamps. Then you could be on call for me to go pick up our
presents in SF if we get adopted. You could take me to my appointment
at legal aid in SR. I need a driver and a secretary. You could come
over and cook for me. Or you could be my nanny and play with my
daughter while I make dinner and/or make phone calls. You could drive
us to church. You could supervise my daughter during divine services.
You could clean my bathroom and windows for me so I could concentrate
on my art. You could help me to shrink my art to fit on a 4 by 6 card.
You could help me price ink for my printer. You could help me set up
my photo printer. You could help me exchange my cell phone for a smart
phone. You could clean my fridge for me. You could buy me and my
daughter baskets for our bicycle. You could investigate what drug plan
covers my "medications". Want more suggestions? You could take me to
the DMV so I could get a driver's permit and you could teach me how to
drive.
Katie
>Bella_is_Noir wrote:
>> coyote wrote:
biiig snip
>I'm not cooking this year, but Im going over to a friend's for the
>feast, and I suspect I will have leftovers foisted upon me, since she's
>incapable of cooking for less than an army. I will of course accept them
>gratefully. Turkey sammiches are the best! How do you like to make
>yours? My favorite is
>
>Toasted English muffin
>Turkey breast
>Stuffing
>Lettuce
>A little mayo
>
>Mmmmm....damn, now Im hungry.
The perpetual luker (who is enjoying the conversation, and wishing you
both well) is going to pipe up here:
THE Post-Thanksgiving Turkey Sammich
2 slices of your favorite bread, the heartier the better
bits of turkey thieved from the 'fridge
cranberry sauce (*not* 'cranberry jelly' molded, can-shaped stuff if
you can avoid it)
cream cheese, fat free, full fat, whatever you're waistline can afford
Slather a thick layer of cream cheese on one slice of bread. Nestle
the turkey bits into it. Glop cranberry sauce on the second slice and
assemble the sandwich. If done correctly, a generous dollop will end
up on your blouse. Mmmmmm, delish!
katieisme67
(nom nom nom)
howard...@gmail.com
Why is it that people with full time jobs are capable of doing all
these things and more on a daily basis, but a lazy, unemployed,
welfare leech like yourself whines about it?
That list is a pretty easy morning for me, and I'm sure there are
others here who can outwork me no problem.
You truly are pathetic, Atlanta.
coyote
>
> Let's see, you could start by finding out if I can make an appointment
> for food stamps. Then you could be on call for me to go pick up our
> presents in SF if we get adopted. You could take me to my appointment
> at legal aid in SR. I need a driver and a secretary. You could come
> over and cook for me. Or you could be my nanny and play with my
> daughter while I make dinner and/or make phone calls. You could drive
> us to church. You could supervise my daughter during divine services.
> You could clean my bathroom and windows for me so I could concentrate
> on my art. You could help me to shrink my art to fit on a 4 by 6 card.
> You could help me price ink for my printer. You could help me set up
> my photo printer. You could help me exchange my cell phone for a smart
> phone. You could clean my fridge for me. You could buy me and my
> daughter baskets for our bicycle. You could investigate what drug plan
> covers my "medications". Want more suggestions? You could take me to
> the DMV so I could get a driver's permit and you could teach me how to
> drive.
You are talking about real-world, on-the-ground help here; I live many
thousands of miles from you. You post angrily about how people on Usenet
are not helping you:
What kind of help do you want from people on Usenet?
coyote
That sounds really good. Man, dammit, I'm drooling now. I need to go
find something to eat, and yearn wistfully for perfect turkey sandwiches.
Scorpio
>
> - Show quoted text -
Good thanx mate. I've been thinkin' of ya!
Megan
Atlanta
I need help with research, like research on bizrate.com for black ink
for my HP printer, #56. Research on who to call to make an appointment
to apply for food stamps. Those are my immediate needs. I need
research on how to resize my drawing on iPhoto or someone who is
proficient with Photoshop. If someone wants to post for me on Deviant
art, and manage the discussion, I would appreciate it. Someone could
keep track of my discussion on photoshopping out an object in a
photograph of my daughter I am using as the basis for my next piece.
These are some of the things online I am managing. Someone could call
the shops in Mill Valley and find out who would be interested in
looking at a portfolio of cards from disabled artists. Someone could
help me find an online forum that deals with my frustrations as a
disabled artist, or look in the forums I already belong to to help me
find a group there. Someone could help me find a group dealing with
the issues I am dealing with "dual diagnosis" "mental health
disability" single motherhood, and things I am too embarrassed to
mention out in public.
Someone could find out if I qualify for a personal assistant through
MCIL.
M. Shirley Chong
>> Just who exactly do you think we are discussing? I won't name her. By
>> the way, you set a horrendous example for your girlfriend. You should
>> be ashamed of yourself. She imitates your disgusting behavior. You are
>> blessed she is barren. All the world needs is a child you have
>> conceived. Its bad enough you have a submissive girlfriend to mold to
>> your standard.
>> BTW I don't give a whit what you think of me personally. I think you
>> are a belligerent, aggressive, militant, violent, arrogant prick. You
>> really ought to get a handle on your own issues.
Scorpio wrote:
> ...and of course the roles can be reversed too. Some men do gravitate
> to abusive, controlling women like this one. If any man is reading
> this and is thinking of getting into a relationship with it, stop
> right there. Count the red flags on this post alone before you go any
> further.
A very good point, Megan.
Particularly since women who are abusive are more likely to be
emotionally abusive than physically abusive (physically abusive
women exist but nowhere near as many as emotionally abusive).
Shirley
Atlanta
I was emotionally abused, and I know I can be emotionally abusive, I
am very angry. Why do you think I keep asking for help? I need a lot
of help. I need more help than I am getting. Why do you think I am not
getting in a relationship? I know I am not ready for one. If you want
to help me indirectly, support the SFCAPC, they help me. Support TALK
Line, they help me. Support MSW, they would have helped me, but they
didn't have an anger management program that was correct for me,
nevertheless they help other women. Those are three concrete things
you can do to help me, and women like me.
coyote
Interesting. Don't you think that's a lot to ask of perfect strangers?
M. Shirley Chong
> Last Friday, she brought a mouse into my house. It wasn't dead. Not by
> a long shot was this mouse dead. It escaped her and is now having the
> time of it's little mousie life in my house. Will the damned cat hunt?
> Hell, no. The Mighty Hunter only hunts outdoors.
Um, Bella? She brought you a mouse to teach you to hunt. She knows
that someday you will have to go live in the big world without her
and catch your own mice, so she's trying to teach you how to do so.
> She's not supposed to jump on my computer desk or Beloved's dresser.
> Yesterday, she jumped on the computer desk while I was posting. I
> ignored her because negative reinforcement is still reinforcement and is
> counterproductive to breaking a bad habit.
Canned air is your friend in situations like that. It blows the cat
hair out of the keyboard and it usually totally freaks out the cat
who is touched by something it cannot see accompanied by a hiss.
> We had FINALLY convinced her that it was necessary to drink from her
> Fresh Flow water dish instead of the toilet or the bathroom sink. Some
> XY-type person who shall remain nameless began leaving the toilet seat
> up, again. Therefore, I have a bellowing cat who drinks from the toilet
> and then expects to groom me. I think not. I gave the un-named XY
> person some negative reinforcement and began to retrain the cat. She's
> still yelling at me. I think we need to go to couple's counseling.
Isn't the XY person in that household outnumbered by the XX type
persons? I'd say default should be seat and lid down. <G>
Shirley
Atlanta
You are not a perfect stranger. You and I have corresponded in email.
Megan is a perfect stranger, and she can stay one. You asked, I
answered.
coyote
> Megan is a perfect stranger, and she can stay one. You asked, I
> answered.
mmmk.
Bella_is_Noir
> Bella_is_Noir wrote:
>
>> Last Friday, she brought a mouse into my house. It wasn't dead. Not
>> by a long shot was this mouse dead. It escaped her and is now having
>> the time of it's little mousie life in my house. Will the damned cat
>> hunt? Hell, no. The Mighty Hunter only hunts outdoors.
>
> Um, Bella? She brought you a mouse to teach you to hunt. She knows that
> someday you will have to go live in the big world without her and catch
> your own mice, so she's trying to teach you how to do so.
Thanks for the translation! Do you know enough cat to help me explain
to Cookie that Mom has charge cards for such things as food?
>
>> She's not supposed to jump on my computer desk or Beloved's dresser.
>> Yesterday, she jumped on the computer desk while I was posting. I
>> ignored her because negative reinforcement is still reinforcement and
>> is counterproductive to breaking a bad habit.
>
> Canned air is your friend in situations like that. It blows the cat hair
> out of the keyboard and it usually totally freaks out the cat who is
> touched by something it cannot see accompanied by a hiss.
I shall purchase it post-haste as long as post haste is no earlier than
after work, tomorrow.
>
>> We had FINALLY convinced her that it was necessary to drink from her
>> Fresh Flow water dish instead of the toilet or the bathroom sink.
>> Some XY-type person who shall remain nameless began leaving the toilet
>> seat up, again. Therefore, I have a bellowing cat who drinks from the
>> toilet and then expects to groom me. I think not. I gave the
>> un-named XY person some negative reinforcement and began to retrain
>> the cat. She's still yelling at me. I think we need to go to
>> couple's counseling.
>
> Isn't the XY person in that household outnumbered by the XX type
> persons? I'd say default should be seat and lid down. <G>
Maybe I can use the canned air on the XY person.
Bella
Troia
> Bella_is_Noir wrote:
>
>> Last Friday, she brought a mouse into my house. It wasn't dead. Not
>> by a long shot was this mouse dead. It escaped her and is now having
>> the time of it's little mousie life in my house. Will the damned cat
>> hunt? Hell, no. The Mighty Hunter only hunts outdoors.
>
> Um, Bella? She brought you a mouse to teach you to hunt. She knows that
> someday you will have to go live in the big world without her and catch
> your own mice, so she's trying to teach you how to do so.
That is the -best- explanation for such behavior I've ever read.
-- Troia
once woken from a nap on the grass by a cat holding in its mouth a
still-kicking mouse about 2 inches from my nose; she was SO proud!
Bella_is_Noir
I think she finally loves us. After slowly moving herself into the
house (I'm allergic to cats-thank god for singulair), she treated us as
if we were rather annoying innkeepers for quite some time. These days,
she cries if we walk past her without picking her up or rubbing her
ears. She actually cuddles up to us!
Bella
Unknown
That's what google is for.
>Research on who to call to make an appointment
>to apply for food stamps.
Blue pages.
> Those are my immediate needs. I need
>research on how to resize my drawing on iPhoto or someone who is
>proficient with Photoshop.
Press F1.
> If someone wants to post for me on Deviant
>art, and manage the discussion, I would appreciate it.
Feel free to copy this to Deviant art for all discussions:
"I'm a loony cow who tries to pretend to be an artist... I hope to
work my way up to pretender before 2014."
> Someone could
>keep track of my discussion on photoshopping out an object in a
>photograph of my daughter I am using as the basis for my next piece.
You could do that by spending less time on the rest of the internet.
> Someone could....
Yeah that someone is YOU! You would not want us to be co dependent and
help you whine would you?
[snip ad nauseum]
--
Grant
ao
>>>
>>
>> You are not a perfect stranger. You and I have corresponded in email.
>> Megan is a perfect stranger, and she can stay one. You asked, I
>> answered.
>
> mmmk.
>
?
ao
>> Those are my immediate needs. I need
>> research on how to resize my drawing on iPhoto or someone who is
>> proficient with Photoshop.
>
> Press F1.
>
>
In iPhoto?
coyote
"ok"
Vagabond
> Vagabond > wrote:
>
>> Have you ever considered sticking to the thread? Let me know if it
>> happens, I will be extremely interested.
>>
>> Tony
> Yes, I have noticed you are QUITE interested in my writing.
Yes I have a fascination with nonsense. I am trying to overcome it.
> Good. I will
> write about the traditions in Al-Anon later then.
Don't bother on my behalf. I have no interest.
> I will use the ODAT as
> the basis of my postings. Again, what qualifies you to be in this group?
Um, I own a computer and have internet access.
> In 12 step programs, in recovery, we leave our professions at the door.
Don't trip over them on your way out.
> Don't judge us as a "mental health professional". You have absolutely no
> right at all to do that.
I was not judging anyone as a mental health professional, I have no idea
why you assume that. I have a Degree in Psychology but I do not practise,
have not for many years. I am a Journalist and Editor, nothing more or less.
> That is straight up abusive. You have no clue
> how much pain my childhood continues to cause me, even today, how it
> hurts me so.
I also have no interest. There was a time when I had a degree of both
interest and empathy, then you went to great pains to destroy that.
> You ridicule and mock my pain and suffering.
No, I simply mock you. Hard not to, you are irresistibly mock-able to me.
See http://tinyurl.com/3bz8uv for a better understanding.
> You have no
> idea what my life does to me, what I see, what I hear, what I witness,
> what I feel.
I doubt you see much of life that can't be viewed on a monitor.
> You just disrespect and degrade me.
No, you do that, I just happen to agree with you.
> I am fully qualified to
> be here.
There is no qualification required to be here, but if you are hinting at
why I don't discuss in detail any problems I might have or have had, then
you are wasting your time. Like many who have reached this NG, I have a bad
history of parental problems. I got over most of them, and learned to live
with those that remained.
> My childhood was so bad it sent me into a disabling depression
> after I broke up my marriage. And you blame me for that. You are insane,
> buddy, not me.
I have not mentioned your marriage or your breakup, nor attributed blame.
It doesn't interest me. You and your many obsessions are boring to me. I
really don't care about your marriage, your childhood, your many dubious
claims to skills and qualifications, your imaginary persecution issues. I
have a concern and some deep empathy for your daughter, but that is where
it ends. It is hard to feel empathy or concern for someone who works so
hard at being unpleasant and thoroughly obnoxious as you do. There is one
thing that stands out about you. You are not interested in solving your
problems. You do not want to adapt to the world, you want the world to
adapt to you. Even with all your self proclaimed problems, you think that
you are the only one in step.
Get over yourself.
Tony
Vagabond
> Fnord Prefect Fnord wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:59:04 -0800, Atlanta wrote:
>>
>> Its bad enough you have a submissive girlfriend to mold to
>>> your standard.
>>
> There is nothing grammatically incorrect in my sentence. Mister Callison
> has turned his girlfriend into a mocker just like him, and its ugly as
> hell.
They are unattractive as all get out. Their personalities are vile.
Did Huey or his GF design this?
It would seem to fit you to a "T". http://tinyurl.com/2palay
Tony
Vagabond
> On Nov 21, 8:39 am, ao <olympiada2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Vagabond > wrote:
>>
>>> Have you ever considered sticking to the thread? Let me know if it
>>> happens, I will be extremely interested.
>>> Tony
>> write about the traditions in Al-Anon later then. I will use the ODAT as
>> the basis of my postings. Again, what qualifies you to be in this group?
>> how much pain my childhood continues to cause me, even today, how it
>> idea what my life does to me, what I see, what I hear, what I witness,
>> be here. My childhood was so bad it sent me into a disabling depression
>> after I broke up my marriage. And you blame me for that. You are insane,
>> buddy, not me.
>
> victim.
> Megan
Maybe, but much as I dislike her increasingly obnoxious persona I do feel
sorry for her and her daughter. Her situation is sad, but as she invariably
turns on those who try to help her, I see no easy answer.
Regards
Tony
Vagabond
> Scorpio wrote:
>> On Nov 21, 8:39 am, ao <olympiada2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Vagabond > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you ever considered sticking to the thread? Let me know if it
>>>> happens, I will be extremely interested.
>>>> Tony
>>> Yes, I have noticed you are QUITE interested in my writing. Good. I will
>>> write about the traditions in Al-Anon later then. I will use the ODAT as
>>> the basis of my postings. Again, what qualifies you to be in this group?
>>> In 12 step programs, in recovery, we leave our professions at the door.
>>> Don't judge us as a "mental health professional". You have absolutely no
>>> right at all to do that. That is straight up abusive. You have no clue
>>> how much pain my childhood continues to cause me, even today, how it
>>> hurts me so. You ridicule and mock my pain and suffering. You have no
>>> idea what my life does to me, what I see, what I hear, what I witness,
>>> what I feel. You just disrespect and degrade me. I am fully qualified to
>>> be here. My childhood was so bad it sent me into a disabling depression
>>> after I broke up my marriage. And you blame me for that. You are insane,
>>> buddy, not me.
>> Here is a fine example of someone still cashing in on playing
>> victim.
>> Megan
> living in a homeless shelter, by my disability which is impoverishing
> me. You are so clueless. This is really life, not some pamphlet. I wrote
> a lot about this group in my journal but I don't know about posting it,
> its not worth it. My Orthodox friend told me not to feed your hatred,
> just to ignore you and you will go away. I think he is right.
Here's a thought. If YOU go away, it means that we are automatically gone
from you life. Why not try that?
Tony