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shoot the looters, reward the price gougers
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Fred Exley
Aug 29, 2017, 10:39:51 AM8/29/17
to
Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood announced a crackdown on gougers
after Hurricane Katrina.
John Shepperson was one of the "gougers" authorities arrested.
Shepperson and his family live in Kentucky. They watched news reports
about Katrina and learned that people desperately needed things.
Shepperson thought he could help and make some money, too, so he bought
19 generators. He and his family then rented a U-Haul and drove 600
miles to an area of Mississippi that was left without power in the wake
of the hurricane.
He offered to sell his generators for twice what he had paid for them,
and people were eager to buy. Police confiscated his generators, though,
and Shepperson was jailed for four days for price-gouging. His
generators are still in police custody.
"Any time there is a natural disaster, or a hurricane, an earthquake,
the price of the things that people desperately want to have --
batteries, flashlights, generators, water or milk -- they go up. Or they
disappear," said economist Russ Roberts.
If sellers don't raise prices, supplies vanish. Anxious buyers line up
and often buy more than they need, just in case. Those not at the front
of the line may get nothing.
"More people want to buy it than there is stuff available. … What do you
do? How do you solve that problem? And how do you find out who should
get those scarce items," Roberts asked.
The answer is you allow people to raise prices -- even to "gouge" --
because only people who REALLY need them will cough up the money.
Gouging also encourages greedy entrepreneurs to rush in with much-needed
goods, or to look for more supplies.
The politicians' typical solution is anti-gouging laws or capping
prices. During the 1970s gas crisis, that's what the government did.
What happened then?
"It was a disaster. It led to long lines, and you couldn't get
gasoline," Roberts said.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1954352&page=1
after Hurricane Katrina.
John Shepperson was one of the "gougers" authorities arrested.
Shepperson and his family live in Kentucky. They watched news reports
about Katrina and learned that people desperately needed things.
Shepperson thought he could help and make some money, too, so he bought
19 generators. He and his family then rented a U-Haul and drove 600
miles to an area of Mississippi that was left without power in the wake
of the hurricane.
He offered to sell his generators for twice what he had paid for them,
and people were eager to buy. Police confiscated his generators, though,
and Shepperson was jailed for four days for price-gouging. His
generators are still in police custody.
"Any time there is a natural disaster, or a hurricane, an earthquake,
the price of the things that people desperately want to have --
batteries, flashlights, generators, water or milk -- they go up. Or they
disappear," said economist Russ Roberts.
If sellers don't raise prices, supplies vanish. Anxious buyers line up
and often buy more than they need, just in case. Those not at the front
of the line may get nothing.
"More people want to buy it than there is stuff available. … What do you
do? How do you solve that problem? And how do you find out who should
get those scarce items," Roberts asked.
The answer is you allow people to raise prices -- even to "gouge" --
because only people who REALLY need them will cough up the money.
Gouging also encourages greedy entrepreneurs to rush in with much-needed
goods, or to look for more supplies.
The politicians' typical solution is anti-gouging laws or capping
prices. During the 1970s gas crisis, that's what the government did.
What happened then?
"It was a disaster. It led to long lines, and you couldn't get
gasoline," Roberts said.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1954352&page=1
Charlie M. 1958
Aug 29, 2017, 10:50:36 AM8/29/17
to
On 8/29/2017 9:39 AM, Fred Exley wrote:
> "More people want to buy it than there is stuff available. … What do you
> do? How do you solve that problem? And how do you find out who should
> get those scarce items," Roberts asked.
>
> The answer is you allow people to raise prices -- even to "gouge" --
> because only people who REALLY need them will cough up the money.
Even as a registered Republican and a fiscal conservative (albeit one
> "More people want to buy it than there is stuff available. … What do you
> do? How do you solve that problem? And how do you find out who should
> get those scarce items," Roberts asked.
>
> The answer is you allow people to raise prices -- even to "gouge" --
> because only people who REALLY need them will cough up the money.
who has experienced price-gouging first hand), this is the stupidest
thing I've ever heard.
The Spirit Of '76
Aug 29, 2017, 11:02:19 AM8/29/17
to
Fred Exley
Aug 29, 2017, 11:31:30 AM8/29/17
to
On 8/29/17 7:50 AM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> On 8/29/2017 9:39 AM, Fred Exley wrote:
>
>> The answer is you allow people to raise prices -- even to "gouge" --
>> because only people who REALLY need them will cough up the money.
>
That line stuck me too as bogus. Theoretically, maybe. Real-world -no
> On 8/29/2017 9:39 AM, Fred Exley wrote:
>
>> The answer is you allow people to raise prices -- even to "gouge" --
>> because only people who REALLY need them will cough up the money.
>
way. Some asshole who doesn't really need them will buy them to sell at
three times the price.
> Even as a registered Republican and a fiscal conservative (albeit one
> who has experienced price-gouging first hand), this is the stupidest
> thing I've ever heard.
aren't already there. The guy who brought generators to the scene,
selling them for twice what he had paid for them, probably won't be
doing it this time around. Less generators. Even though some would be
happy to pay the offering price.
Charlie M. 1958
Aug 29, 2017, 12:51:55 PM8/29/17
to
On 8/29/2017 10:31 AM, Fred Exley wrote:
> But the overall, real-world point is valid, at least for goods that
> aren't already there. The guy who brought generators to the scene,
> selling them for twice what he had paid for them, probably won't be
> doing it this time around. Less generators. Even though some would be
> happy to pay the offering price.
It's a good example, though, of how healthy capitalism can go awry.
> But the overall, real-world point is valid, at least for goods that
> aren't already there. The guy who brought generators to the scene,
> selling them for twice what he had paid for them, probably won't be
> doing it this time around. Less generators. Even though some would be
> happy to pay the offering price.
A guy bringing in generators and selling them for a reasonable profit
margin seems like a good thing. Offering water to thirsty people at $10
a gallon? Not so much.
Letting supply and demand drive the price of luxuries is all well and
good. Doing the same for basic necessities in the aftermath of a
disaster is pretty barbaric.
Skeezix LaRocca
Aug 29, 2017, 2:07:34 PM8/29/17
to
balls ?...After all, he is looking at a 1200 mile round trip, not to
mention the miles driven once there.
--
We all do better when we all do better.
Paul Wellstone
badgolferman
Aug 29, 2017, 3:02:31 PM8/29/17
to
--
"Conservative, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
distinguished from the liberal, who wishes to replace them with
others." ~ Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary
Socrates
Aug 29, 2017, 5:29:02 PM8/29/17
to
SpamPlease@example.com David
Aug 29, 2017, 6:58:14 PM8/29/17
to
"Fred Exley" <fex...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:oo3u3d$2kk$1...@dont-email.me...
> Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood announced a crackdown on gougers
> after Hurricane Katrina.
>
> John Shepperson was one of the "gougers" authorities arrested.
> Shepperson and his family live in Kentucky. They watched news reports
> about Katrina and learned that people desperately needed things.
>
> Shepperson thought he could help and make some money, too, so he bought
> 19 generators. He and his family then rented a U-Haul and drove 600
> miles to an area of Mississippi that was left without power in the wake
> of the hurricane.
>
> He offered to sell his generators for twice what he had paid for them,
> and people were eager to buy. Police confiscated his generators, though,
> and Shepperson was jailed for four days for price-gouging. His
> generators are still in police custody.
>
>
> "Any time there is a natural disaster, or a hurricane, an earthquake,
> the price of the things that people desperately want to have --
> batteries, flashlights, generators, water or milk -- they go up. Or they
> disappear," said economist Russ Roberts.
>
> If sellers don't raise prices, supplies vanish. Anxious buyers line up
> and often buy more than they need, just in case. Those not at the front
> of the line may get nothing.
>
> "More people want to buy it than there is stuff available. . What do you
> after Hurricane Katrina.
>
> John Shepperson was one of the "gougers" authorities arrested.
> Shepperson and his family live in Kentucky. They watched news reports
> about Katrina and learned that people desperately needed things.
>
> Shepperson thought he could help and make some money, too, so he bought
> 19 generators. He and his family then rented a U-Haul and drove 600
> miles to an area of Mississippi that was left without power in the wake
> of the hurricane.
>
> He offered to sell his generators for twice what he had paid for them,
> and people were eager to buy. Police confiscated his generators, though,
> and Shepperson was jailed for four days for price-gouging. His
> generators are still in police custody.
>
>
> "Any time there is a natural disaster, or a hurricane, an earthquake,
> the price of the things that people desperately want to have --
> batteries, flashlights, generators, water or milk -- they go up. Or they
> disappear," said economist Russ Roberts.
>
> If sellers don't raise prices, supplies vanish. Anxious buyers line up
> and often buy more than they need, just in case. Those not at the front
> of the line may get nothing.
>
> do? How do you solve that problem? And how do you find out who should
> get those scarce items," Roberts asked.
>
> The answer is you allow people to raise prices -- even to "gouge" --
> because only people who REALLY need them will cough up the money.
> Gouging also encourages greedy entrepreneurs to rush in with much-needed
> goods, or to look for more supplies.
>
> The politicians' typical solution is anti-gouging laws or capping
> prices. During the 1970s gas crisis, that's what the government did.
> What happened then?
>
> "It was a disaster. It led to long lines, and you couldn't get
> gasoline," Roberts said.
>
>
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1954352&page=1
>
You lefties are all alike. Totally clueless.
> get those scarce items," Roberts asked.
>
> The answer is you allow people to raise prices -- even to "gouge" --
> because only people who REALLY need them will cough up the money.
> Gouging also encourages greedy entrepreneurs to rush in with much-needed
> goods, or to look for more supplies.
>
> The politicians' typical solution is anti-gouging laws or capping
> prices. During the 1970s gas crisis, that's what the government did.
> What happened then?
>
> "It was a disaster. It led to long lines, and you couldn't get
> gasoline," Roberts said.
>
>
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1954352&page=1
>
Fred Exley
Aug 30, 2017, 12:22:47 AM8/30/17
to
were provided for anyone who bought drink. This inducement wasn't
popular with the temperance lobby and was also criticized for the same
reason that others in the 20th century later introduced the idea to
economic thinking, that is, saloon customers always ended up paying for
the food in the price of the drinks they were obliged to consume.
Indeed, some saloon keepers were prosecuted for false advertising of
free lunch as customers couldn't partake of it without first paying
money to the saloon.
It was into this context that the economic theorists enter the fray and
'there's no such thing as a free lunch' is coined. It isn't known who
coined the phrase. It certainly wasn't the economist Milton Friedman,
who was much associated with the term. He was a celebrated Nobel
Prize-winning economist and his monetarist theories were highly
influential on the Reagan and Thatcher administrations in the 1980s and
90s. Friedman certainly believed that 'there's no such thing as a free
lunch' and he published a book with that title in 1975, but wasn't, and
never claimed to be, the originator of the phrase."
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tanstaafl.html
JoeRaisin
Aug 30, 2017, 6:51:00 AM8/30/17
to
a much better profit.
If you get accused of gouging, just make up an excuse... throw one of
your employees under the bus.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-buy-explains-why-charged-194839322.html
I guarantee that "employee" asked management what price he should put on
the case...
--
Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
opinions to be obvious and true.
- Frank "Socrates"
How twisted are our Politics that revelation of truth is considered
"interfering" with an election?
badgolferman
Aug 30, 2017, 2:06:45 PM8/30/17
to
JoeRaisin wrote:
>>Just shoot the looters. That will solve a lot of problems.
>>
>>
>
>But if you loot the stuff then sell it at gouging prices you could
>make a much better profit.
Or you can just shoot the looters and reduce crime and price gouging.
>>Just shoot the looters. That will solve a lot of problems.
>>
>>
>
>But if you loot the stuff then sell it at gouging prices you could
>make a much better profit.
Win-Win situation!
JoeRaisin
Aug 30, 2017, 7:24:02 PM8/30/17
to
badgolferman
Aug 30, 2017, 9:36:32 PM8/30/17
to
JoeRaisin wrote:
>On 8/30/2017 2:05 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>>JoeRaisin wrote:
>>
>>>>Just shoot the looters. That will solve a lot of problems.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>But if you loot the stuff then sell it at gouging prices you could
>>>make a much better profit.
>>
>>
>>Or you can just shoot the looters and reduce crime and price
>>gouging. Win-Win situation!
>>
>
>How about shoot them all and let God sort them out?
The looters of course.
>On 8/30/2017 2:05 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>>JoeRaisin wrote:
>>
>>>>Just shoot the looters. That will solve a lot of problems.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>But if you loot the stuff then sell it at gouging prices you could
>>>make a much better profit.
>>
>>
>>Or you can just shoot the looters and reduce crime and price
>>gouging. Win-Win situation!
>>
>
>How about shoot them all and let God sort them out?
dav...@agent.com
Aug 31, 2017, 2:15:37 AM8/31/17
to
On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 07:39:48 -0700, Fred Exley <fex...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Texas Price Gougers Are Hurricane Heroes
High profits encourage new sellers to enter the market, which
brings prices down.
by Daniel J. Mitchell, Aug 28, 2017, fee.org
I generally use Texas as a good example when discussing public policy.
Particularly compared to places such as California.
I like the sensible attitude about guns, but the absence of an income
tax is particularly admirable when considering economic issues,
and I confess to being greatly amused when I read about jobs and
investment escaping high-tax states like California and moving to the
Lone Star State.
But being more pro-market than California is a low bar to clear. And
I’ve written that government is too big in Texas.
And now, because of Hurricane Harvey, I have another reason to
criticize the state.
Texas has a law against “price gouging,” which means politicians there
(just like the politicians in places like Venezuela) think they should
get to determine what’s a fair price rather than allow (gasp!) a free
market.
The state’s Republican Attorney General is even highlighting his
state’s support for this perverse example of price controls.
"Price gouging by Texas merchants in the path of Hurricane Harvey has
drawn the attention of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who said
Saturday that his office is looking into such cases. …”We’ll be
dealing with those people as we find them,” he said. …Paxton issued a
warning about price gouging Friday as the hurricane approached the
Texas coast. Texas law prohibits businesses from charging exorbitant
prices for gasoline, food, water, clothing and lodging during declared
disasters."
Paxton is right about Texas law, but he is threatening to enforce a
terrible policy.
To help explain why Texas law is bad and why the Attorney General is
misguided, here’s a video from John Stossel on so-called price
gouging.
It’s disgusting that Mississippi arrested John. The guy should have
received a medal for putting his money at risk to serve others.
To augment Stossel’s analysis, here’s a video from Learn Liberty that
explains why politicians shouldn’t interfere with the price system.
And here’s Walter Williams discussing the role of “windfall profits”
and how high returns encourage the reallocation of resources in ways
that benefit consumers.
The bottom line on this issue is that buyers understandably want low
prices, particularly in emergency situations.
But that makes no economic sense.
However, since buyers generally outnumber sellers, politicians will
always have an incentive to demagogue on the issue.
I’m not surprised when we get economic illiteracy from certain
politicians. Nonetheless, it’s very disappointing when Texas lawmakers
sink to that level. I hope Mr. Paxton at least is feeling guilty.
P.S. But I’ll close on an upbeat note by sharing my collection of
Texas-themed humor: Here, here, here, and here.
Reprinted from International Liberty.
Daniel J. Mitchell is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute who
specializes in fiscal policy, particularly tax reform, international
tax competition, and the economic burden of government spending. He
also serves on the editorial board of the Cayman Financial Review.
https://fee.org/articles/texas-price-gougers-are-hurricane-heroes/
wrote:
High profits encourage new sellers to enter the market, which
brings prices down.
by Daniel J. Mitchell, Aug 28, 2017, fee.org
I generally use Texas as a good example when discussing public policy.
Particularly compared to places such as California.
I like the sensible attitude about guns, but the absence of an income
tax is particularly admirable when considering economic issues,
and I confess to being greatly amused when I read about jobs and
investment escaping high-tax states like California and moving to the
Lone Star State.
But being more pro-market than California is a low bar to clear. And
I’ve written that government is too big in Texas.
And now, because of Hurricane Harvey, I have another reason to
criticize the state.
Texas has a law against “price gouging,” which means politicians there
(just like the politicians in places like Venezuela) think they should
get to determine what’s a fair price rather than allow (gasp!) a free
market.
The state’s Republican Attorney General is even highlighting his
state’s support for this perverse example of price controls.
"Price gouging by Texas merchants in the path of Hurricane Harvey has
drawn the attention of Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who said
Saturday that his office is looking into such cases. …”We’ll be
dealing with those people as we find them,” he said. …Paxton issued a
warning about price gouging Friday as the hurricane approached the
Texas coast. Texas law prohibits businesses from charging exorbitant
prices for gasoline, food, water, clothing and lodging during declared
disasters."
Paxton is right about Texas law, but he is threatening to enforce a
terrible policy.
To help explain why Texas law is bad and why the Attorney General is
misguided, here’s a video from John Stossel on so-called price
gouging.
It’s disgusting that Mississippi arrested John. The guy should have
received a medal for putting his money at risk to serve others.
To augment Stossel’s analysis, here’s a video from Learn Liberty that
explains why politicians shouldn’t interfere with the price system.
And here’s Walter Williams discussing the role of “windfall profits”
and how high returns encourage the reallocation of resources in ways
that benefit consumers.
The bottom line on this issue is that buyers understandably want low
prices, particularly in emergency situations.
But that makes no economic sense.
However, since buyers generally outnumber sellers, politicians will
always have an incentive to demagogue on the issue.
I’m not surprised when we get economic illiteracy from certain
politicians. Nonetheless, it’s very disappointing when Texas lawmakers
sink to that level. I hope Mr. Paxton at least is feeling guilty.
P.S. But I’ll close on an upbeat note by sharing my collection of
Texas-themed humor: Here, here, here, and here.
Reprinted from International Liberty.
Daniel J. Mitchell is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute who
specializes in fiscal policy, particularly tax reform, international
tax competition, and the economic burden of government spending. He
also serves on the editorial board of the Cayman Financial Review.
https://fee.org/articles/texas-price-gougers-are-hurricane-heroes/
JoeRaisin
Aug 31, 2017, 6:11:07 AM8/31/17
to
/looks/ like their are taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
Anyone you /think/ is taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
And... (here's the kicker) Shoot the *white* looters too...
Yeah... that got your attention, didn't it?
RobD
Aug 31, 2017, 7:25:36 AM8/31/17
to
JoeRaisin <joerai...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 8/30/2017 9:36 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/30/2017 2:05 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>>>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Just shoot the looters. That will solve a lot of problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you loot the stuff then sell it at gouging prices you could
>>>>> make a much better profit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or you can just shoot the looters and reduce crime and price
>>>> gouging. Win-Win situation!
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about shoot them all and let God sort them out?
>>
>>
>> The looters of course.
>>
>
> Anyone taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain. Anyone who
> /looks/ like their are taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
> Anyone you /think/ is taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
>
> And... (here's the kicker) Shoot the *white* looters too...
>
> Yeah... that got your attention, didn't it?
>
Ehhh.
> On 8/30/2017 9:36 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/30/2017 2:05 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>>>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Just shoot the looters. That will solve a lot of problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you loot the stuff then sell it at gouging prices you could
>>>>> make a much better profit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or you can just shoot the looters and reduce crime and price
>>>> gouging. Win-Win situation!
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about shoot them all and let God sort them out?
>>
>>
>> The looters of course.
>>
>
> Anyone taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain. Anyone who
> /looks/ like their are taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
> Anyone you /think/ is taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
>
> And... (here's the kicker) Shoot the *white* looters too...
>
> Yeah... that got your attention, didn't it?
>
I saw the Best Buy story, and the corporate explanation made sense to me.
(Actually, I had already done the math in my head, and I figured what
happened was some poor shrub had someone ask to buy a case. He knew he
could scan a bottle, so he scanned one, hit "x24," and wrote the price he
got on a sign, not remembering that buying in bulk usually brings a
discount.
But I cannot think of a single thing BB sells in a bulk pack . . . maybe
recordable CD-rom discs.A three pack of flash drives?
But there are those who would have *someone* targeted as a gouger for this.
I just don't see it.
badgolferman
Aug 31, 2017, 8:32:31 AM8/31/17
to
JoeRaisin <joerai...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 8/30/2017 9:36 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/30/2017 2:05 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>>>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Just shoot the looters. That will solve a lot of problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you loot the stuff then sell it at gouging prices you could
>>>>> make a much better profit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or you can just shoot the looters and reduce crime and price
>>>> gouging. Win-Win situation!
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about shoot them all and let God sort them out?
>>
>>
>> The looters of course.
>>
>
> Anyone taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain. Anyone who
> /looks/ like their are taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
> Anyone you /think/ is taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
>
> And... (here's the kicker) Shoot the *white* looters too...
>
> Yeah... that got your attention, didn't it?
>
All looters.
> On 8/30/2017 9:36 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/30/2017 2:05 PM, badgolferman wrote:
>>>> JoeRaisin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Just shoot the looters. That will solve a lot of problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you loot the stuff then sell it at gouging prices you could
>>>>> make a much better profit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or you can just shoot the looters and reduce crime and price
>>>> gouging. Win-Win situation!
>>>>
>>>
>>> How about shoot them all and let God sort them out?
>>
>>
>> The looters of course.
>>
>
> Anyone taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain. Anyone who
> /looks/ like their are taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
> Anyone you /think/ is taking advantage of a disaster for personal gain.
>
> And... (here's the kicker) Shoot the *white* looters too...
>
> Yeah... that got your attention, didn't it?
>
Fred Exley
Aug 31, 2017, 9:40:02 AM8/31/17
to
a. the fact that "heck of a job" Brownie, who caused egregious
mass-suffering to the Katrina victims for botching government relief
efforts, continued to receive his $148,000 annual salary until 2005,
when he left on his own accord.
or
b. The guy with the generators who actually did bring relief to the
Katrina victims went to jail for it.
The whole notion of price gouging is a gross oversimplification of a
complex supply/demand dynamic and its effect on the common good.
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