George Takei, 'Mr. Sulu,' says he's gay
William_B...@yahoo.com
George Takei, 'Mr. Sulu,' says he's gay
Actor and partner have been together for 18 years
The Associated Press
Updated: 11:11 p.m. ET Oct. 27, 2005
LOS ANGELES - George Takei, who as helmsman Sulu steered the Starship
Enterprise through three television seasons and six movies, has come
out as a homosexual in the current issue of Frontiers, a biweekly Los
Angeles magazine covering the gay and lesbian community.
Takei told The Associated Press on Thursday that his new onstage role
as psychologist Martin Dysart in "Equus," helped inspire him to
publicly discuss his sexuality.
Takei described the character as a "very contained but turbulently
frustrated man." The play opened Wednesday at the David Henry Hwang
Theater in Los Angeles, the same day that Frontiers magazine featured a
story on Takei's coming out.
The current social and political climate also motivated Takei's
disclosure, he said.
"The world has changed from when I was a young teen feeling ashamed
for being gay," he said. "The issue of gay marriage is now a
political issue. That would have been unthinkable when I was young."
The 68-year-old actor said he and his partner, Brad Altman, have been
together for 18 years.
Takei, a Japanese-American who lived in a U.S. internment camp from age
4 to 8, said he grew up feeling ashamed of his ethnicity and sexuality.
He likened prejudice against gays to racial segregation.
"It's against basic decency and what American values stand for,"
he said.
Takei joined the "Star Trek" cast in 1966 as Hikaru Sulu, a
character he played for three seasons on television and in six
subsequent films. He received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame in
1986.
A community activist, Takei ran for the Los Angeles City Council in
1973. He serves on the advisory committee of the California Civil
Liberties Public Education Program and is chairman of East West
Players, the theater company producing "Equus."
© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may
not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
© 2005 MSNBC.com
Brad Ferguson
<William_B...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> LOS ANGELES - George Takei, who as helmsman Sulu steered the Starship
> Enterprise through three television seasons and six movies, has come
> out as a homosexual in the current issue of Frontiers, a biweekly Los
> Angeles magazine covering the gay and lesbian community.
Did anyone *not* know this already?
BTW, George is much more famous among Trek people for being a
chocoholic.
(Followups trimmed, header tweaked.)
deb...@comcast.net
came out nearly 10 years ago) that he was gay.
splooge...@hotmail.com
finally gave us a break to stop punishing us with their posts, here
comes this Browneye or whatever to spew his personnas on us like we
asked for it. Does he really think we come to this site just to read
his posts? Could he be so deprived of attention from society that he
has to come here to force his unsolicited humanity on us? Oh, the
bravery of being out of range. I see his phony posts about Cheney
resigning and click to see it's all crap. I'm sure he knows about the
O.T. rule but that would help people avoid him and he can't have that.
To bad a newsgroup like this can't be moderated.
This is a newsgroup about death and that person's life and death and
it's effect on our culture. There is and informed and decent cadre of
folks here that make coming here and seeing their pertinent
observations a real joy. It has degraded to a freakshow and "I hate
Bush newsgroup". I hate Bush too, but I don't think this is the place
to show off this view.
I do apologize if my post offends the on topic regulars here, I just
had to get this off my chest.
Jack Hoff
Brian Watson
<deb...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1130476572.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> It was pretty clear to anyone who'd read Takei's autobiography (which
> came out nearly 10 years ago) that he was gay.
Must admit I always assumed he was. Can't really say why; "gaydar", I
suppose.
No big deal.
--
Brian
James Neibaur
> Must admit I always assumed he was. Can't really say why; "gaydar", I
> suppose.
>
> No big deal.
I am never really surprised or bothered by such announcements, but I must
say I was surprised to discover Lesley Gore is gay. That one threw me. I
don't know why, I guess I attributed her character with her songs a bit too
closely, as she was among the first pop singers of whom I was aware as a
kid.
JN
deb...@comcast.net
must
say I was surprised to discover Lesley Gore is gay. That one threw me.
I
don't know why, I guess I attributed her character with her songs a bit
too
closely, as she was among the first pop singers of whom I was aware as
a
kid.
The movie "Grace of My Heart" (1996) which is about the early 60's pop
scene, features a female singer obviously based on Lesley Gore, who is
portrayed as gay. So the rumors must've been out there for awhile.
Jim Beaver
> came out nearly 10 years ago) that he was gay.
I was on a Star Trek fan cruise several years ago with my wife Cecily and
George. A sweetheart of a guy, very elegant and articulate. Based on that
experience, I am surprised he was not publicly out then. I took it for
granted he was out, as nothing indicated he was hiding it.
Jim Beaver
Bill Schenley
> announcements, but I must say I was surprised to
> discover Lesley Gore is gay. That one threw me. I
> don't know why, I guess I attributed her character
> with her songs a bit too closely, as she was among
> the first pop singers of whom I was aware as a
> kid.
Leslie Gore has been openly gay since ... at least ... the early
1970s.
I used to work at the dry cleaners in Brentwood (Los Angeles) where
she took her clothes.
The first time she came in (after I started working there) she was
with a rather masculine looking woman ... She gave me her laundry ...
and I walked back towards the woman who owned the dry cleaners ... and
jokingly said: "Oh no. Not Leslie Gore. I was in love with her."
I could see the owner cringe ... and I heard LG's voice right behind
me. She had followed me to ask the owner a question. I walked away
without looking back at her.
As soon as she started walking back to the door ... I returned to the
owner and said: "If the dyke thing didn't ruin my chance at happiness
... my big mouth sure did." I never noticed ... that Miss Gore had
turned and started walking back toward the owner.
I saw the owner cringe again. And I heard LG say: "Don't worry. It
wasn't your big mouth."
She was a doll, though.
John Gross
> came out nearly 10 years ago) that he was gay.
If someone claims that Mr. Spock isn't really a Vulcan, I'm really gonna be
upset!
La N
"Jim Beaver" <jumb...@prodigy.spam> wrote in message
news:jej8f.3698$8W....@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
Many years ago I met Takei at a book signing party in Calgary, Alberta. I
assumed then that he was out. Or it didn't even matter. He was a very
sweet man.
- nilita
PS: to Jim Beaver; as a Canadian I don't receive your show Deadwood, but
someone who participates in one of my private lists today mentioned Deadwood
and your excellent acting.
MWB
"Brad Ferguson" <thir...@frXOXed.net> wrote in message
news:281020050056258109%thir...@frXOXed.net...
Me.
Mark
Jim Beaver
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8Ak8f.65532$Io.28597@clgrps13...
>
> PS: to Jim Beaver; as a Canadian I don't receive your show Deadwood, but
> someone who participates in one of my private lists today mentioned
> Deadwood and your excellent acting.
Thank you very much. (First season's out on DVD, you know. And the 25
actors on the show split six cents a copy, so if you and 24 other people buy
a copy, that's six cents I get!)
Seriously, thanks for mentioning it.
Jim Beaver
La N
"Jim Beaver" <jumb...@prodigy.spam> wrote in message
I'm going to put this through my blog which several people read.. I've not
seen you or the show, but I've heard about you/it. I'll do an extra boost.
I know that several people have bought the DVDs (I, on OTOH, hang my head
shamefacedly because I don't even own a DVD player ..)
Keep up the good work. I know you've gone through some rough personal
times, and I'll do whatever I can to help.
- nilita
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
No shit. Duh.
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
"Rob Petrie" <r...@att.net> wrote in message
news:KMn8f.2961$yX2....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "MWB" <mark.b...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:9Gk8f.15789$%A1.3739@trndny01...
> None of my business.
And yet you keep reading the posts about him.... hmm...
Hyfler/Rosner
"James Neibaur" <jnei...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BF872349.63E88%jnei...@wi.rr.com...
Well, if Hollywood is any proof of anything, there was a
lesbian character in Grace of My Heart (a terrific film, by
the way) based on Lesley Gore. Someone on imbd says Gore
wrote the song the character sings.
James Neibaur
> Lesley Gore ("She's a Fool") hates men and loves women?
> Out goes her songs from my Real Player playlist!
I don't think her being gay indicates she "hates men"
JN
James Neibaur
> Leslie Gore has been openly gay since ... at least ... the early
> 1970s.
That is what the article indicated. As I stated, I am never really
suprirsed or bothered, and this time I was at least surprised. Since my
introduction to her work was as a kid, I psychlogically equated her with the
character she projected in her songs. And don't you dare say the
proto-feminist anthem "You Don't Own Me" was the clue.
> I used to work at the dry cleaners in Brentwood (Los Angeles) where
> she took her clothes.
>
> The first time she came in (after I started working there) she was
> with a rather masculine looking woman ... She gave me her laundry ...
> and I walked back towards the woman who owned the dry cleaners ... and
> jokingly said: "Oh no. Not Leslie Gore. I was in love with her."
>
> I could see the owner cringe ... and I heard LG's voice right behind
> me. She had followed me to ask the owner a question. I walked away
> without looking back at her.
>
> As soon as she started walking back to the door ... I returned to the
> owner and said: "If the dyke thing didn't ruin my chance at happiness
> ... my big mouth sure did." I never noticed ... that Miss Gore had
> turned and started walking back toward the owner.
>
> I saw the owner cringe again. And I heard LG say: "Don't worry. It
> wasn't your big mouth."
>
> She was a doll, though.
Well, it gives you an amusing anecdote to tell.
I always liked her, too, and was pleased to read in the article that she is
recording again after decades.
JN
James Neibaur
> The movie "Grace of My Heart" (1996) which is about the early 60's pop
> scene, features a female singer obviously based on Lesley Gore, who is
> portrayed as gay. So the rumors must've been out there for awhile.
Actually, I don't think she was ever "in." I was just the dumbbell who
didn't realize it until reading the article that mentioned it.
JN
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies" <vol...@tds.net> wrote in message
> news:43620ac0$1...@newspeer2.tds.net...
> Never the 'twain shall meet...
Ah, you're a screamin' homophobe.... Why didn't you just say so?
James Neibaur
> Gosh, what's next? George W. Bush admitting he is an idiot? Naw. He'll
> never come out of the closet.
His public behavior is hardly what I would consider being in the closet
about his idiocy.
JN
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
"Harry Krause" <harry....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3seq2dF...@individual.net...
He has a mind?
Gerald Meazell
S.
"Brad Ferguson" <thir...@frXOXed.net> wrote in message
news:281020050056258109%thir...@frXOXed.net...
> In article <1130473294.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> <William_B...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> LOS ANGELES - George Takei, who as helmsman Sulu steered the Starship
>> Enterprise through three television seasons and six movies, has come
>> out as a homosexual in the current issue of Frontiers, a biweekly Los
>> Angeles magazine covering the gay and lesbian community.
>
>
> Did anyone *not* know this already?
>
Me. But I don't give a rat's, it's not an important thing in my life.
King Daevid MacKenzie
>>Lesley Gore ("She's a Fool") hates men and loves women?
>>Out goes her songs from my Real Player playlist!
>
>
> I don't think her being gay indicates she "hates men"
...however, should she ever meet Roy or Erik, that could easily be
confirmed...
--
--
King Daevid MacKenzie, WLSU-FM 88.9 La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
heard occasionally at http://www.radio4all.net
"You can live in your dreams, but only if you are worthy of them."
HARLAN ELLISON
MWB
"Jim Beaver" <jumb...@prodigy.spam> wrote in message
Thank GOD for that nickel bottle deposit.
Mark
ingrid56
La N <nilita20...@yahoo.com> exclaimed:
I bought the DVD @ Costco for about $65-$70 and watch it on my Toshiba
laptop computer which plays DVDs and has a large screen (for a
laptop). Jim is very good, but Ian McShane is riveting. Look up
"evil" in the dictionary and you'll see a picture of his eyes. <g>
The language isn't for everybody. Most of it seems unnecessary and
superfluous, plus I don't happen to believe people really talked like
that back then. Less of it would be less distracting to the stories.
Compared to the mind-numbing sit-coms on network TV, Deadwood is very
entertaining and does require some attention to keep track of all the
characters and the plot lines. It's a hit, that's for sure!
Jack
King Daevid MacKenzie
>>>>Lesley Gore ("She's a Fool") hates men and loves women?
>>>>Out goes her songs from my Real Player playlist!
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't think her being gay indicates she "hates men"
>
>
>>...however, should she ever meet Roy or Erik, that could easily be
>>confirmed...
>
>
> Excellent personal insult, King.
> You sound closer to Erik in doing that cheap shot.
> I hope you are proud of yourself in doing that!
...you earned it with the lesbian=manhater crack. The wiseassed comments
about the social culture of La Crosse a couple of weeks back set the
stage for it. Your talent for annoyance is massive. Work on deflating it
a bit, okeh?...
R H Draney
>
>Gosh, what's next? George W. Bush admitting he is an idiot? Naw. He'll
>never come out of the closet.
"Who designs these gosh darn complicated doorknob thingies, anyway? Condi!
Help!"...r
King Daevid MacKenzie
> Just because they are abnormal doesn't mean I have to endorse their
> abnormality. Just as you can endorse their lifestyle all you want to your
> heart's content.
...a member of the Libertarian Party grousing about something being
abnormal. That is ridiculous on so many levels I could probably
entertain myself for the next hour just coming up with all the different
angles...
James Neibaur
> Take a poll on lesbians and I'll bet you the vast majority of them
> do actually hate men, not just prefer women as their sexual partners.
Roy that's ridiculous. They don't hate men, they just hate you.
JN
James Neibaur
> I don't live or work in a red state and
> therefore there are plenty of "overt" gay folks in my area (Washington,
> D.C.) in the writing and graphic arts fields. Lesbians generally do not
> *hate* men. They simply prefer women as sexual partner
Having been fairly closely to theater and the arts all of my adult life, I
have certainly worked with many gay people of both genders, and they are
somehow more tolerant of people like Roy than he is of them. I am actually
quite surprised at his comment.
JN
R H Draney
>
>> One of my graphics artists is a lesbian. She doesn't hate men; she just
>> prefers the other gender for her sexual partners.
>
> Take a poll on lesbians and I'll bet you the vast majority of them
>do actually hate men, not just prefer women as their sexual partners.
I just did (in this office it's pretty easy)...first six were in unanimous
agreement with Harry....
Now, some of them have stay-at-home partners, and the percentages may be a
little different among that bunch, but among the few of them I've met they're
not too crazy about *any* other people, which is why they stay in....r
Hubert H. Hempseed
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> I don't try to make everybody into a horse's ass as you do with the
> Democrat Party in praying for Bigger Government to solve all our problems by
> FORCE of LAW, while ignoring all the evidence existing to show it does
> precisely the opposite of what its supposedly "good intentions" are.
> http://www.westegg.com/inflation
> $1 in 1965 purchasing power = 17 CENTS purchasing power in 2005
>
>
Man, you are fucking tedious.
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
"Rob Petrie" <r...@att.net> wrote in message
news:BMu8f.3073$yX2....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> x-no-archive: yes
>>> Rob Petrie quotes me quotin' James Neibaur quotin' him 'n sez:
>>>
>>>>>>> Lesley Gore ("She's a Fool") hates men and loves women?
>>>>>>> Out goes her songs from my Real Player playlist!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think her being gay indicates she "hates men"
>>>>
>>>>> ...however, should she ever meet Roy or Erik, that could easily be
>>>>> confirmed...
>>>>
>>>> Excellent personal insult, King.
>>>> You sound closer to Erik in doing that cheap shot.
>>>> I hope you are proud of yourself in doing that!
>
>
>> prefers the other gender for her sexual partners.
>
> Take a poll on lesbians and I'll bet you the vast majority of them
> do actually hate men, not just prefer women as their sexual partners.
You are a raging idiot. Please go take a dirt nap and make yourself
on-topic.
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
"James Neibaur" <jnei...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BF87E79D.63F3A%jnei...@wi.rr.com...
And no doubt so do the straight women.
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
Horses everywhere protest this comparison.
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies" <vol...@tds.net> wrote in message
> news:43621857$1...@newspeer2.tds.net...>> news:X9o8f.2974$yX2...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>>> I don't care if Mr. Takei is GREEN.
>>>>> None of my business.
>>>>
>>>> And yet you keep reading the posts about him.... hmm...
>>>
>>> I'm BLUE, he's GREEN.
>>> Never the 'twain shall meet...
>>
>> Ah, you're a screamin' homophobe.... Why didn't you just say so?
>
> I don't hate the person, I hate the act.
Sound like you hate the fact no one ever asked ya'. Until someone does,
you're not invited into their sex "act". Deal.
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
Just taking out the "no archive" so this beaut gets saved for posterity.
>
> "Harry Krause" <harry....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3seqb8F...@individual.net...
>> William_B...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> MSNBC.com
>>>
>>> George Takei, 'Mr. Sulu,' says he's gay
>>> Actor and partner have been together for 18 years
>>> The Associated Press
>>> Updated: 11:11 p.m. ET Oct. 27, 2005
>>>
>>> LOS ANGELES - George Takei, who as helmsman Sulu steered the Starship
>>> Enterprise through three television seasons and six movies, has come
>>> out as a homosexual in the current issue of Frontiers, a biweekly Los
>>> Angeles magazine covering the gay and lesbian community.
>>>
>>> Takei told The Associated Press on Thursday that his new onstage role
>>> as psychologist Martin Dysart in "Equus," helped inspire him to
>>> publicly discuss his sexuality.
>
>> I rarely think about the "sexuality" of public figures, and I've never
>> been able to figure out why so many in this country care so much about
>> what consenting adults do in their bedrooms.
>
> Because they are SEX OBSESSED. <aren't we all, in various ways>
> As if that is the only thing important in the whole world.
> Taxation up to 91% rates, ok.
> Inflating the currency to oblivion, ok.
> Spending the country into $TRILLIONS of debt and eventual total
> economic ruin, ok.
> Wars in every part of the globe with thousands dying, ok.
>
> Sex in the bedroom between two consenting ADULTS (of either gender),
> WE HAVE TO STOP IT AT ALL COSTS--or God'll get you for that!
Nutball.
James Neibaur
> You don't understand the difference between having personal
> preferences, the First Amendment on who to associate with (or not)
Yes, Roy, I understand prejudice and bigotry all too well. Again, I am
surprised at you.
JN
Aje RavenStar
AKA Dead: Takei's right to wear the "Where No Man Has Gone Before"
commerative belt buckle.
(Courtesy of a fellow twisted individual from an anime newsgroup that shall
remain anonymous).
William Brownstein
Leslie Gore
deb...@comcast.net wrote:
> I am never really surprised or bothered by such announcements, but I
> must
> say I was surprised to discover Lesley Gore is gay. That one threw me.
> I
> don't know why, I guess I attributed her character with her songs a bit
> too
> closely, as she was among the first pop singers of whom I was aware as
> a
> kid.
>
> The movie "Grace of My Heart" (1996) which is about the early 60's pop
> scene, features a female singer obviously based on Lesley Gore, who is
> portrayed as gay. So the rumors must've been out there for awhile.
And in recent years she has started talking publicly about being a
lesbian. She has a partner of 24 years and has long been out to friends
and family. "I decided to host a couple of the 'In the Life' programs,"
Ms. Gore said, referring to the gay and lesbian news series on public
television. "And I did that really as a result of meeting a lot of
young gay people in the Midwest who really had nothing to relate to. At
least I felt this program is presenting them with some options."
The New York Times
October 23, 2005
It's Lesley Gore's Career, She'll Revive It if She Wants To
By JESSE FOX MAYSHARK
ON March 30, 1963, a honey-haired high school junior from Tenafly,
N.J., went into a Manhattan recording studio with the producer Quincy
Jones and a battery of musicians. They emerged hours later with a song
called "It's My Party." Lesley Gore was 16 years old. By June, she had
the No. 1 record in America.
That started a brief but remarkable run of hits, chronicles of
adolescent crushes and betrayals that made Ms. Gore one of the biggest
stars of the day. Songs like "Judy's Turn to Cry" (the sequel to "It's
My Party"), "She's a Fool" and "Maybe I Know" condensed the tempests of
teenage life into two-and-a-half-minute bursts.
Now, after decades of gamely resurrecting her 1960's hits for crowds at
state fairs and Indian casinos, she has released her first new album in
30 years. It is called "Ever Since," and it is as mature and wistful as
her early records were brash and bright.
"Being able to put a couple of new songs in your show is really like a
breath of fresh air," she said in a recent interview near her home on
the Upper East Side of Manhattan. "And I'm enjoying this whole indie
label thing. It's very grass-roots, kind of reminds me of the way we
did things in the 60's."
The indie label is Engine Company Records, which is selling "Ever
Since" on Ms. Gore's Web site (www.lesleygore.com) - and, for the
moment, nowhere else.
"I think it's fundamentally over," Ms. Gore, who is now 59, said of the
corporate music industry. "Not only are we seeing record companies
dying, we're seeing record stores - HMV, the Wiz. It's hard to even
find a place to buy a record. It's easier to go online."
Of course, Ms. Gore was never much for convention. Her second-biggest
hit, "You Don't Own Me," was a protofeminist anthem asserting her right
"to live my life the way I want/ To say and do whatever I please."
She has abided by that principle, dipping into television (as
Catwoman's sidekick on the 1960's "Batman" series), Hollywood (getting
an Oscar nomination for a song she wrote with her brother, Michael, on
the soundtrack to "Fame") and Broadway (as a cast member in "Smokey
Joe's Cafe"). She has been a longtime, if low-key, social activist,
from volunteering in Robert Kennedy's 1968 presidential campaign to
working with Bella Abzug.
And in recent years she has started talking publicly about being a
lesbian. She has a partner of 24 years and has long been out to friends
and family. "I decided to host a couple of the 'In the Life' programs,"
Ms. Gore said, referring to the gay and lesbian news series on public
television. "And I did that really as a result of meeting a lot of
young gay people in the Midwest who really had nothing to relate to. At
least I felt this program is presenting them with some options."
But Ms. Gore resists reinterpretation of her 60's hits along the lines
of sexual orientation - partly because she never thought they were
particularly gender-specific to start with. Of "You Don't Own Me," she
said: "When I heard that song at the age of 17, it felt like a humanist
song to me. I could see a guy singing that to a young woman as easily
as I could see a young woman singing it to her boyfriend or her
father."
The song reappears on "Ever Since," in a restrained arrangement that
suits the disc's cabaret cocktail of jazzy pop and spry ballads. This
time, it feels more like part of a conversation than a declaration of
independence.
"It's not a just boy-meets-girl and he starts getting a little pushy,"
Ms Gore said of the new version. "This is a relationship that's been
around a while."
So has Ms. Gore's relationship with Blake Morgan, a singer-songwriter
who founded Engine Company. He persuaded Ms. Gore, an old friend of his
mother's, to return to the studio.
"I've known her since I was a kid," said Mr. Morgan, 36, who also
produced the album. "I had spent a couple weeks with the idea for this
record rolling around in my head. I said: 'I think it would be a
mistake to make a comeback record. I think it would be a mistake to
make a genre record. I think what we need to do is make a great Lesley
Gore record.' " "Out Here on My Own," from "Fame," also returns, along
with three other tracks of which Ms. Gore was either writer or
co-writer. Mr. Morgan and another of his label's recording artists,
Mike Errico, contributed most of the rest of the songs. Ms. Gore's
voice is a little huskier with the years, and her singing shows the
influence of the jazz singers she grew up listening to, like Nina
Simone and Dinah Washington.
"The album is very sparse, very organic," Ms. Gore said. Her live shows
have become similarly stripped down: "It's very bare-bones now, with
just piano, bass, drums, guitar and singers. There's no horns, there's
no strings, there's no synthesizers."
Mr. Morgan said that with only word-of-mouth promotion, the album has
sold more than a thousand copies in New York, and it got a boost last
month when one track, "Better Angels," was used in an episode of "CSI:
Miami."
Ms. Gore said she keeps tabs on current music, if just out of
professional curiosity. "I've listened to Eminem rap," she said.
"That's not daily fare for me, but I can't help but admire how vivid
what he does is. My own taste goes a little more toward Norah Jones."
The do-it-yourself experience of making the new album, much different
from her last studio forays in the 1970's, has persuaded her not to
wait another three decades for the next one. And she is sure there will
be a next one.
"I have to say that when I first started singing, I didn't think it was
a very noble profession," she said. "I worked for people like Robert
Kennedy and I thought: 'Wow, that's what it's about. That's how you
change the world.' And then I watched that disintegrate in front of my
eyes, and it was very discouraging.
"But I have found over 43 years that I really rather love what I do.
And it really does keep me in touch with people, in a way that a lot of
people don't get a chance to be in touch with people. So I have a
newfound love and respect for my career."
That includes respect for old fans who want to hear the old songs
alongside the new ones. "If I've learned anything in this business,"
she said, "how stupid would it be not to do 'It's My Party' when people
come to hear it?"
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/23/arts/music/23mays.html?emc=eta1
James Neibaur
> I'm surprised you're not a libertarian nor understand the First
> Amendment and why Libertarians also have a right to dislike certain
> activities (but not to have the State punish them for it), just as you have
> certain likes and dislikes, so we're even.
The first amendment certainly does allow you the right to condemn gay people
and spout such beliefs as stating they hate the gender to which they are not
sexually attracted. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you feel this
way, but I am.
JN
MGW
scrawled:
I've known straight people who hated the opposite sex (except to have
sex with) and gay people who are good friends to people of both
genders.
Sadly, hatred is not limited by gender orientation.
--
MGW
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've
always got.
James Neibaur
> I've known straight people who hated the opposite sex (except to have
> sex with) and gay people who are good friends to people of both
> genders.
>
> Sadly, hatred is not limited by gender orientation.
Nor is bigotry limited to racial prejudice.
JN
King Daevid MacKenzie
>>Yes, Roy, I understand prejudice and bigotry all too well.
>
>
> I'm neither, since I don't want to throw them in jail or fine them as
> many Christians who believe in Christ's words want to do.
...nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus Christ comment at all on
homosexuality. NOWHERE. He is quoted, however, as saying, in many
different ways, that one should mind their own business and not worry
about the actions of others. You would do well to follow THAT message...
doc
$RG4....@fe05.lga:
> ...nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus Christ comment at all on
> homosexuality. NOWHERE. He is quoted, however, as saying, in many
> different ways, that one should mind their own business and not worry
> about the actions of others. You would do well to follow THAT message...
>
>
The Gospel Jesus has almost nothing to say about sexuality..PERIOD! He is
far more concerned with ethical behavior than morality. AAMOF, the one
time he explicitly pronounces something about sexual conduct, it is to tell
the woman caught in adultery, "Neither do I condemn thee. Go and sin no
more."
It is St. Paul who had the problem with sexuality. But he was just against
it generally because it was a distraction from the impending apocalypse.
King Daevid MacKenzie
>>>>Yes, Roy, I understand prejudice and bigotry all too well.
>
>
>>> I'm neither, since I don't want to throw them in jail or fine them as
>>>many Christians who believe in Christ's words want to do.
>
>
>>...nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus Christ comment at all on
>>homosexuality. NOWHERE.
>
>
> Actually, He (God) does, and God supersedes Christ in the order of
> Higher Power to obey, although I wouldn't personally make it a State law as
> Christians have done to "enforce" prohibition/punishment of the act. I'd
> leave punishment to God in a person's afterlife.
> As the Old Testament says, which both devout Christians and orthodox
> Jews believe in how to live your life:
>
> "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
> --Lev. 18:22
>
> "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them
> have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their
> blood shall be upon them."
> --Lev. 20:13
...your out-of-context quotes from Leviticus refer to worship ritual,
not private consensual conduct. Quoting below Rev. Elder Don Eastman of
the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches:
The Holiness Code – Scripture Study
Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13
Christians today do not follow the rules and rituals described in
Leviticus. But some ignore its definitions of their own "uncleanness"
while quoting Leviticus to condemn "homosexuals." Such abuse of
Scripture distorts the Old Testament meaning and denies a New Testament
message. "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is
an abomination." These words occur solely in the Holiness Code of
Leviticus, a ritual manual for Israel's priests. Their meaning can only
be fully appreciated in the historical and cultural context of the
ancient Hebrew people. Israel, in a unique place as the chosen people of
one God, was to avoid the practices of other peoples and gods.
Hebrew religion, characterized by the revelation of one God, stood in
continuous tension with the religion of the surrounding Canaanites who
worshipped the multiple gods of fertility cults. Canaanite idol worship,
which featured female and male cult prostitution as noted in Deuteronomy
23:17, repeatedly compromised Israel's loyalty to God. The Hebrew word
for a male cult prostitute, qadesh, is mistranslated "sodomite" in some
versions of the Bible.
What is an "Abomination"?
An abomination is that which God found detestable because it was
unclean, disloyal, or unjust. Several Hebrew words were so translated,
and the one found in Leviticus, toevah, is usually associated with
idolatry, as in Ezekiel, where it occurs numerous times. Given the
strong association of toevah with idolatry and the canaanite religious
practice of cult prostitution, the use of toevah regarding male same-sex
acts in Leviticus calls into question any conclusion that such
condemnation also applies to loving, responsible homosexual relationships.
Rituals and Rules
Rituals and Rules found in the Old Testament were given to preserve the
distinctive characteristics of the religion and culture of Israel. But,
as stated in Galatians 3:22-25, Christians are no longer bound by these
Jewish laws. By faith we live in Jesus Christ, not in Leviticus. To be
sure, ethical concerns apply to all cultures and peoples in every age.
Such concerns were ultimately reflected by Jesus Christ, who said
nothing about homosexuality, but a great deal about love, justice, mercy
and faith.
> What else do you want to be proven wrong on the Bible, King?
...I haven't been proven wrong in the first place, Roy...
>>He is quoted, however, as saying, in many different ways, that one should
>>mind their own business and not worry about the actions of others.
>
>
> I do exactly that, King.
...the fuck you do. You "disapprove of the act" because you need some
justification to convince yourself that you're better than someone else
on this planet. Guess what? YOU'RE NOT. You'd be just as far ahead to
object to oxygen being in air and water, or snow piling up in St. Louis
in January, or your turds stinking. And you'd be just as psychotic, too...
> You would do well to follow THAT message...
>
> I do exactly that, King.
> I don't care what they do behind closed doors.
> I don't even care if they do it in the streets.
> I do NOT want to have them arrested by the State [which arrests and
> convicts too many people already in the U.S. (over 2 million) leading the
> entire world in locking people up in prison], with most of them for the
> failed War on (some) Drugs.
> I do NOT want to associate with them in any way, shape or form, which
> is my God-given right as a human being to make up my own mind and
> encapusulated into law of the United States in the First Amendment (except
> where it is prohibited by law or rogue court).
...so much for loving your neighbor as yourself...
James Neibaur
> The Gospel Jesus has almost nothing to say about sexuality..PERIOD! He is
> far more concerned with ethical behavior than morality. AAMOF, the one
> time he explicitly pronounces something about sexual conduct, it is to tell
> the woman caught in adultery, "Neither do I condemn thee. Go and sin no
> more."
>
> It is St. Paul who had the problem with sexuality. But he was just against
> it generally because it was a distraction from the impending apocalypse.
I think the "abomination" line is from Paul's letters to the Romans.
In Roy's case, I think it is Leviticus from where he gets his self-righteous
ammo.
JN
PirateJohn
self-righteous
ammo. >>
In Roy's case it's more likely to be from a bottle of gin.
Tregembo
"Rob Petrie" <r...@att.net> wrote
> Take a poll on lesbians and I'll bet you the vast majority of them do
> actually hate men, not just prefer women as their sexual partners.
I leave town for one day and the Rob/Roy stupidity dam springs a huge leak.
Allow me to stop the flood of ignorance by putting my finger in this dike.
Lesbians as a group do not hate men, anymore than almost any segment of
society hates another...the 3middle east excluded. One could certainly find
some Lesbians who have been mistreated by say, some redneck Libertarians,
that would hold a grudge. Do you also simplistically think that, as a
group, gay men hate women, except for Liza and Barbra? This is the basest
ignorant bigotry.
In the past 40 years I have hired, fired, had friendships with, had
arguments with, liked and disliked dozens of Lesbians. Some of whom I knew
were gay some of whom I had no idea where gay. Only one, as I was firing
her yelled at me, "You're just firing me because I'm gay."
To which I responded, "No. I didn't know you were gay. I'm firing you
because you're black!"
Just kidding of course. I fired her because she was a thief, and she knew
that.
Roy, I think YOU should take a poll of all the women you know...okay, 12
would not be a large enough sampling. You'll find that there are many of
your female acquaintances that get along with you and all the other guys
just fine. And some of them are Lesbians but you never knew it. Beware,
they may START to hate you AFTER they realize what an idiot you are, but
mostly they'll just pity you.
Ray Arthur
James Neibaur
> Allow me to stop the flood of ignorance by putting my finger in this dike.
ouch!! Was that line on purpose?
JN
Tregembo
Aside from not hating men, my experience has shown that most Lesbians have a
great senses of humor.
Ray Arthur
de Fragile Warrior Sports Supplies
"Terry del Fuego" <t_del...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tuj7m1tphtmd8g0ft...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:14:41 GMT, "An Eight-Year-Old Girl" <r...@att.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Take a poll on lesbians and I'll bet you the vast majority of them
>>do actually hate men, not just prefer women as their sexual partners.
>
> speculation based on a combination of stupidity, ignorance, prejudice
> and the voices in your head.
>
> You know as much lesbians as you do about what it's like to have a job
> in 2005.
You have to understand: he HAS to have a reason why a woman would prefer
another woman over him. It's easier for him to think they hate ALL men...
instead of just him specifically.
James Neibaur
> Correct on Leviticus. Lev. 18:22 and Lev. 20:13.
The old testament says the same thing about divorcees.
> I'm not being self-righteous, Jim.
> I was just quoting where God says not to do that act, for whatever
> reason He chose to believe it the correct thing not to do when King said
> there was nothing in the Bible about homosexuality.
He said that Jesus never mentioned it, which is correct.
> If you want to do it anyway, be my guest!
> Don't make any difference to me.
My not being gay doesn't mean I am not surprised by someone who makes
stereotypical implications like "most lesbians hate men."
If someone I knew reasonably well, even if only online, stated they refuse
to associate with Jewish people, I would also be taken aback in the same
way.
JN
MGW
scrawled:
> Rob Petrie 10/29/05 9:54 PM
>
> > Correct on Leviticus. Lev. 18:22 and Lev. 20:13.
>
> The old testament says the same thing about divorcees.
Actually, the old testament does not ban divorce. The only limitation
is that a Cohen (priest) cannot marry a divorcee.
James Neibaur
>> The old testament says the same thing about divorcees.
>
> Actually, the old testament does not ban divorce. The only limitation
> is that a Cohen (priest) cannot marry a divorcee.
Was it only in Paul's letters?
The old testament has a wealth of material that can be considered suspect
with the passage of time. Of course, so does the new.
JN
MGW
scrawled:
> MGW 10/29/05 10:55 PM
The first five books are actually fairly accurate, because the rules
for copying a Torah scroll are so stringent (it's the part of the
Bible that is considered most holy in Judaism). Because ancient
fragments have been found, we now know that there are surprisingly few
differences between the modern Torah scrolls and the ancient ones.
Also, the Torah and the rest of the Hebrew Bible have been passed down
in their original language. Granted, some words and phrases are
obscure or ambiguous.
The laws of purity, mariage, etc. are all in the Torah (especially
Leviticus and Numbers) - the rest of the Hebrew Bible (what Christians
call the "Old Testament") is history (Kings, the prophets), and
"writings" (Psalms, Ecclesiastes). Divorce has never been forbidden
in Judaism and marriage is not a sacrament. Those are Christian
innovations.
James Neibaur
> The laws of purity, mariage, etc. are all in the Torah (especially
> Leviticus and Numbers) - the rest of the Hebrew Bible (what Christians
> call the "Old Testament") is history (Kings, the prophets), and
> "writings" (Psalms, Ecclesiastes). Divorce has never been forbidden
> in Judaism and marriage is not a sacrament. Those are Christian
> innovations.
I would have to get ahold of a bible again (been a while) but I recall some
pretty heavy no-no stuff among the laws that could be considered quite
limiting in a more enlightened age. Much of the old testament provides more
interesting reading and is closer to the genesis of literature (no pun
intended). Of course some stories (like Noah's Ark) have to be taken as
parables rather than history, while the Psalms offer some fascinating
material (and not just the 23rd, which I still know from Sunday School
memory).
JN
James Neibaur
>> The old testament says the same thing about divorcees.
>
> Actually, the old testament does not ban divorce. The only limitation
> is that a Cohen (priest) cannot marry a divorcee.
Now that I think about it, I believe it was indeed the gospel of Luke that
mentions divorce (which is, of course, in the new testament).
The old testament does have its share of nasties, though, such as selling
your daughter into slavery (I believe that can be found in Exodus).
Leviticus has passages condoning slavery as well. If I had a bible I could
find them.
JN
S.
"Harry Krause" <harry....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3seqb8F...@individual.net...
> William_B...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> MSNBC.com
>
>
>
> I rarely think about the "sexuality" of public figures, and I've never
> been able to figure out why so many in this country care so much about
> what consenting adults do in their bedrooms.
>
> Gosh, what's next? George W. Bush admitting he is an idiot? Naw. He'll
> never come out of the closet.
>
Nice ! Well done, H.
John M.
<echoes...@charter.net> wrote:
>Rob Petrie sez:
>
>> Just because they are abnormal doesn't mean I have to endorse their
>> abnormality. Just as you can endorse their lifestyle all you want to your
>> heart's content.
>
>...a member of the Libertarian Party grousing about something being
>abnormal. That is ridiculous on so many levels I could probably
>entertain myself for the next hour just coming up with all the different
>angles...
>
>--
Hey, c'mon man, yer makin' us libertarians look bad.
--
John M.
MGW
scrawled:
> MGW 10/29/05 11:41 PM
I studied the Torah quite thoroughly with my son last year (and have
in the past.) Observant Jews read a section of the Torah (1st 5 books
of the Bible) each week. I didn't say the laws weren't restrictive
nor that there aren't laws in Leviticus that many people would now
consider quite limiting. I said that divorce wasn't forbidden and
marriage wasn't a sacrament - I can guarantee you that I'm correct on
that. Marriage was a contract. Divorce was (and is) allowed.
BTW, many of the things that we consider limiting were actually
improvements over what had come before.
linuxor...@gmail.com
about Star Trek. However, I remember reading a post by someone who
didn't like media and entertainment industry. Since it concern Star
Trek World, you guys may like to read it.
Poster is answering a question or comment about someone's dream of
producing/extracting some type of energy in space.
------------------------
Do you have firm statistics? This sounds like an urban legend. We can
see clearly the idea, but where are the facts to back it up?
I can paint a picture of a person interested in science and technology,
and capable of doing the work needed to master a discipline. I can
imagine many such people that rather than doing the hard work needed to
master their field find an easy receptacle for their enthusiasms in
fantasy land. Others whose interest in space might have led them into
science are led astray believing that this interest rather than being
something real is more akin to legends and fantasy and are thus 'shut
down.'
I have no more facts than you to suggest that one effect rather than
another predominates. It is my feeling however, that for every person
inspired by Star Trek many have been led astray by Star Trek. That for
every person who got an itch for science from Star Trek, many had that
itch adequately scratched by Star Trek without the need to develop the
requisite skills in science to do so.
My feeling stems from the observation that every hour spent watching
reruns, every hour at Star Trek conventions, every hour reading Star
Trek technical manuals and all the rest, is an hour taken from real
studies, real experiments, and real achievement.
I understand those who work to promote Paramount Studios don't report
the negative impact of their fantasies. They frown upon the
distribution of movies like "Trekkers" which take a critical look at
people who allow the Trek Universe to so dominate their lives so it
becomes a cult for them.
But we shouldn't allow Paramount Studios to do our thinking for us. If
they are going to claim that their show benefits science, they should
submit to science to support those claims.
Fact is, no such studies have been done, its all just anecdotal
information reported with breathless enthusiasm of the propagandist.
William Mook