Polyweres, wha?
Mudge Wolf
I'm not posting this to pound on anyone's beliefs, but, the idea of polyweres
is getting to me. By ll the models put forth about werisms, polywerism
doesn't fit. I'd be interested to know how the polyweres of this group feel
bout it, so we can better understand the nature of not only multiple
phenotypes, but singulr ones as well.
Thnx,
Mudge Wolf
with a messed up "a" key
STriker RedWolf
Mudge Wolf wrote:
>
> I'm not posting this to pound on anyone's beliefs, but, the idea of polyweres
> is getting to me. By ll the models put forth about werisms, polywerism
> doesn't fit. I'd be interested to know how the polyweres of this group feel
> bout it, so we can better understand the nature of not only multiple
> phenotypes, but singulr ones as well.
>
For me, at least, a polywere can atlease associate two different aspects
of him/herself to two different animals, symbolicly. For me, it's
five. And I'm not getting anymore... I've "stablized" a bit.
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sett...@pa.mother.com
If being a polywere allows you to associate different aspects of your
personality with different animals, then why isn't the following true:
I'm a cat, because I'm finicky about what I eat sometimes.
I'm a dragon when I get angry or when I seek to exercise strength.
I'm a wolf when I'm social.
My point is, I kind of tend to believe that being a were-something means
more than just what you associate yourself with at various points of time
in terms of your personality.
I'd also like to try and get an answer to the following question:
Questions rather, typo.
1) Why can't everyone associate all sorts of different animals with themselves?
2) If everyone can associate all sorts of different animals with themselves,
then does that make everyone a 'polywere' in the views of those who believe
this?
Hunter Rose
KatmanDu
sett...@pa.mother.com wrote:
>My point is, I kind of tend to believe that being a were-something means
>more than just what you associate yourself with at various points of time
>in terms of your personality.
I associate myself with cougar and wolf... not just because I see
aspects of them in my personality. They're the animals I'm drawn
to.... why?
Dunno.
Cougar came first. I've had many dreams with cougar in them. Wolf came
later, after high school. Why?
Dunno.
I don't particularly feel an affinity for other animals, not in the
same way. I admire and like tigers... but I don't feel the same things
for them. I don't long to be one. If someone came to me and told me I
could be an honest to ghod physical weretiger, I'd say "Thank you,
thank you! But... could I be werecougar instead?"
I don't know why I am the way I am, what made me that way, or why I am
drawn towards cougar and wolf both to the exclusion of all others.
That's part of the reason why I'm here, on this newsgroup. I don't
guess I can adaquately explain why I consider myself a polywere, or
why I feel I can see both points of view, feline and canine; or why I
long so desperately to come to some sort of communion with either or
both... at least, not right now. Too many lead solvent fumes. Brain go
bye-bye, shutting down.
Wolf Fang
KatmanDu <katm...@negia.net> wrote in article
<5g07sl$i...@okra.negia.net>...
I know I posted this before, but it seemed very relavent to the current
conversation,
--
An interesting thought poped into my head recently, well maybe not
interesting, after all it is 1:30, on why there are so many were's with
both canine and feline sides. Well, it seems that not that many millions of
years ago, canines and felines had a common ancester. This animal lived in
many parts of the world, and had many characteristics (sp?) that are now
seen in these seeming seperate species. It is interesting to note that the
animal that I believe is closest to the wolf, indeed closer than many
canines, is the mountain lion/cougar/any of it's multiple other names.
Though one is a pack animal, and the other a solitary hunter, the two have
very similar behavioral patterns, and seem to be almost identical in many
respects. This is just one case where a cat is the closest animal to a
canine, amazingly enough, jaguar's and coyotee's are quite similar, as well
as many behavioral similarities between african tigers and the north
american red fox. Perhaps the cliche of cats and dogs fighting is just like
humans. Often the people who are most similar to are the people who you get
along with the least...in other words, to truly hate you must first love.
I also wonder about the fact that maybe many canines/felines feel
connections to the opposite species, much like we have connections to our
animal sides. Common ancestry may indeed produce similar thought processes,
etc. Who knows...something to think about though.
Perhaps originally feeling I was a large cat before discovering my wolf
side wasn't that far off,
The reposter,
WolfFang
--
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And there's a place for us...
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Spyder Witiko
In article <01bc2dd3$072759a0$bfc3...@Wolffang.montrose.net>, "Wolf Fang"
<wolf...@montrose.net> wrote:
"> --
"> An interesting thought poped into my head recently, well maybe not
"> interesting, after all it is 1:30, on why there are so many were's with
"> both canine and feline sides. Well, it seems that not that many millions of
"> years ago, canines and felines had a common ancester. This animal lived in
"> many parts of the world, and had many characteristics (sp?) that are now
"> seen in these seeming seperate species.
It was more than likely a great deal like a big weasel -- they talk about
it in "The Tribe of Tiger" which is a Wonderful(tm) book I suggest everyone
here read, cats or not-cats. It really helps one understand how and why
felines think the way they do. I can get an ISBN if needed -- it's at home
on my shelf.
- Spyder Witiko, kokodhem-at-large
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sett...@pa.mother.com
WolfFang:
I can understand that some animals may be related to each other in myths.
Wolves and ravens, for example.
What I'm asking more directly is what about cases where people have two
weresides that pretty directly conflict, like phoenix and centaur, or
cheetah and wolf (having absolutely nothing in common as far as I can
tell)?
Hunter Rose
Landon Solomon
Why do phoenix and centaur conflict? Also, why would you have two
similar sides? Like someone said earlier, sometimes very similar
creatures scrape pretty hard against one another...
--
Trot Fox / My sanity is saved and threatened
http://web2.airmail.net/trotfox5/ / by the absorption of much Fantasy.
STriker RedWolf
sett...@pa.mother.com wrote:
>
> WolfFang:
>
> I can understand that some animals may be related to each other in myths.
> Wolves and ravens, for example.
>
> What I'm asking more directly is what about cases where people have two
> weresides that pretty directly conflict, like phoenix and centaur, or
> cheetah and wolf (having absolutely nothing in common as far as I can
> tell)?
It's a mess (with a cheetah and a wolf)... :)
Most of my sides "pop" in, and durring spirit shifts seem to work
together... oh, let me explain.
Whenever I'm in some mood or whatnot, my self-perception "shifts"... I
could imagine myself, typing on a SparcStation 4 at work now, as a
werewolf trying not to scratch up the keyboard. But whenever the
adrenaline hits, the 'wolf steps aside for the 'cheetah. Same for the
'tiger when I'm !*)#*&)!@*%)!*# pissed off... but there are some times
which it just happens for no reason at all, or someone trigged it.
Mostly, all five are greatful enough to get out of each other's way and
cooperate with each other... thank the moon!
Sidenote: I've been finding the night very calming, as I deal with many
people in my line of work... I don't have to deal with many people in
the night because they're all home! I can actually thing on my own!:)
Purrs! Howls!
Silverhair
STriker RedWolf <tyg...@wam.umd.edu> writes: >
> I can actually thing on my own!:)
Thing on your own what?
Silverhair, needing a nap, ducking and running.... >;-}
STriker RedWolf/Kelly Price
Silverhair wrote:
>
> STriker RedWolf <tyg...@wam.umd.edu> writes: >
>
> > I can actually thing on my own!:)
>
> Thing on your own what?
>
DOE! "Think" is the word... which, durring the time, I need....
sleep...
*THUD* purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Coyote Osborne
In article <1997031118...@step.mother.com>, sett...@pa.mother.com
wrote:
> WolfFang:
>
> I can understand that some animals may be related to each other in myths.
> Wolves and ravens, for example.
>
> What I'm asking more directly is what about cases where people have two
> weresides that pretty directly conflict, like phoenix and centaur, or
> cheetah and wolf (having absolutely nothing in common as far as I can
> tell)?
As far as you can tell... perhaps because you are not that person?
Just because _you_ can't see something does not mean that it isn't there.
Okay... I'll jump into the frying pan with you for a minute... there just
_might_ be some people around ahww (maybe/maybe not) who claim relations to
all sorts of animals because they really can't make up their minds about
who they are, and their desire to be all things or to dissociate from their
selves might be powerful... in short... it is _conceivable_ that some folks
might think they are "polyweres" because they don;t have a strong grasp of
either self or reality... or are wannabees. Maybe so... maybe not.
But... I feel it is more than possible for people to have a real connection
to more than one animal side.
What if it's a reincarnation thing? (transmigration actually)... what if
they lived lives as, say, a cat, then as a wolf, then as a fox? They
_would_ necessrily carry all those feelings.
What about windigowak... I'm SURE you've at least heard of them, "Hunter
Rose"... they partake of _many_ aspects of wildness... what is it... Bear,
Cat, Wolf... hmmm... I forget the others... maybe you can fill me in.
What if there is a wereside that is part of spirit and part of body? My
grandfather was very strongly what I think of as "dragon" energy... and I
_often_ felt that energy in myself... and the person that I was in my youth
was very strongly a "cat" person... but my spirit is Coyote... but I
_still_ see myself as a red wolf/coyote crossbreed, if you were to ask my
phenotype...
What if there are _many_ things that are meaningful to many people... but
not to you. That does _not_ mean they are without value... though it does
seem to make you unable to accept or respect them.
Everyone will not agree with you... and you... like every other person...
lack total knowledge of the universe. So... since you don't know it all...
your seeming assertion that something like polywereism doen't have any
founding because you can't see how it could be true rings slightly hollow,
at least to me.
There's times when I think someone might be deluding themselves or others
about themselves... or might be a loon... but I don;t generally say so...
because I might be _wrong_.
Coyote
--
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Shadowlkr1
From: coy...@miami.mindspring.com (Coyote Osborne)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 08:48:21 -0500
Message-ID:
<coyotee-ya0240800...@news.miami.mindspring.com>
<snip>
What if it's a reincarnation thing? (transmigration actually)... what if
they lived lives as, say, a cat, then as a wolf, then as a fox? They
_would_ necessrily carry all those feelings.
What about windigowak... I'm SURE you've at least heard of them, "Hunter
Rose"... they partake of _many_ aspects of wildness... what is it... Bear,
Cat, Wolf... hmmm... I forget the others... maybe you can fill me in.
What if there is a wereside that is part of spirit and part of body? My
grandfather was very strongly what I think of as "dragon" energy... and I
_often_ felt that energy in myself... and the person that I was in my
youth
was very strongly a "cat" person... but my spirit is Coyote... but I
_still_ see myself as a red wolf/coyote crossbreed, if you were to ask my
phenotype...
<snip>
Coyote
++++
As an interesting factoid, and you may know this, but in case you did
not--the red wolf is not a true species, but is actually a hybrid line
that came into being when wolves and coyotes interbred naturally.
Coyote Osborne
In article <19970316174...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
shado...@aol.com (Shadowlkr1) wrote:
> As an interesting factoid, and you may know this, but in case you did
> not--the red wolf is not a true species, but is actually a hybrid line
> that came into being when wolves and coyotes interbred naturally.
Actually... there's a ton of debate over whether red wolves are their own
species or not... most of the debate being moot, because there aren;t
enough red wolves left to tell anythign about... and the few individuals
that _are_ left are known to be cross-bred with dogs, coyotes and wolves.
Many of the studies tahat seemed to point to red wolves as being "merely" a
mixed-breed coyote-wolf were done long after they were so exterminated and
so interbred (since there were so few... the remaining ones interbred) that
no valid studies could really be done... and since it _seemed_ that the
only "red wolves" they could find were coyote-mixes, they assumed it had
always been so.
For the record... wolves and coyotes will interbreed occasionally... but
only in truly extraordinary circumstances... the two creatures ahev
differing ecological niches, and coyotes are _much_ smalle than wolves. A
really big coyote... a giant coyote would be fifty pounds. (Though eastern
coyotes are generally larger than western ones).
One theory even states that red wolves are older than coyotes, though I
dunno bout that one...
It is conceivable that the original critter that was referred to as a
coyote might have _been_ a red wolf... the word comes from the central
american native word "coyotl". And there aren't too many coyotes down
there... though there were red wolves until relatively recently. Though
there used to be more coyotes down there too.
In any case... the two species are linked... either by interbreeding,
mistaken identity, or evolution.
One idea proposed recently is that coyotes (along with jackals and foxes)
are actually among the oldest canids... and that wolves actually evolved
from them... crossing the Bering strait to other places a gizillion years
ago... where as the coyotes mostly stayed in warm climes.
Which could explain perhaps why there are coyotes, wolves and red wolves in
north america... but only wolves elsewhere (himalayan wolves do strongly
resemble coyotes though... so do jackals somewhat... though jackals are not
quite as closely related to other canids).
Of course... considering there are not enough critters (wolves or red
wolves) to do real studies from... and not enough researchers with brains
and an understanding of scientific process <grin> who the hell knows? All
there are is a bunch of theories... and no good way to find out... now that
many of the critters being studied are almost all gone. There's no genetic
diversity... and no way of knowing what a "pure" red wolf is like... caue
they were practically extincted... it could be that there are _none_ left
that are all red wolf.
Coyote Osborne
In article <MudgeWolf....@hotmail.com>, Mudg...@hotmail.com
(Mudge Wolf) wrote:
> I'm not posting this to pound on anyone's beliefs, but, the idea of polyweres
> is getting to me. By ll the models put forth about werisms, polywerism
> doesn't fit. I'd be interested to know how the polyweres of this group feel
> bout it, so we can better understand the nature of not only multiple
> phenotypes, but singulr ones as well.
I wasn't under the impression that there were two models of wereism that
everyone had to fall under to be a were.
Just because some folks are similar, doesn;tr mean others will always be.
I think the problem might come from teh fact that there seem to be some
folks (most of whom I don;t think hang around for very long) that sorta
want to be everything...
That doesn not mean that someone can;t have more than one animal side.\
There are probably some "weres" and "polyweres" that really are just
wishful-thinkers... or are mistaken, or whaveter. But that doesn nto mean
that there's no such thing as polywereism.
To begin with... what _if_ wereism has lots to do with some collective
animal consciousness taking an interest in you? There is more than one kind
of animal in the world... more than one might get attracted to one person.
It could happen, for all any of us know.
What if there ain;t no such thing as wereism at all, and we're all deluded?
In that case, it's really humorous to think of a bunch of loons telling all
the other loons "You can't be Napoleion... _I'M_ Napoleon!"
What if the human part of us is trying to analyze what animal we are, bu
associating HUMAN ideas of what it consist of to be an animal with the
feelings they have? In other words... you might be a bear, but your human
half's idea of what bears are like might not really know what bears are
really like. You might mistake the feelings that come from it with
something else. Many of us have feelings and emotions and sensations long
before any "visions". How do you know if yer feeling like a bear walking
through woods, or a cougar or a wolf, when you are feeling the cold win
rush by, the earth under your padded feet, and the scent of green and water
and rot is filling your nostrils? Hmmm?
What if it's the reincarnation/transmigration thing? What if it's that some
animal somewhere dies and the spirit gets attracted to a person? What if
what if what if?
So... just because someoen's wereside or polywereside doesn;t fit into
someone's pet theory is no reason to assume that it's not valid in and of
itself.
I try to spend more time fishing the motes outta my own eye (BION) than
looking for the motes in others.
Now... for my money... I believe that there are real weres, and that there
can be weres with more than one side, and no, I don;t understand
necessarily what that could mean for each person... I know Kat has Cougar
and Wolf... I can feel both of them coming off of him when I'm in his
presence, as surely as I can feel my own skin. He's _not_ someone that I'd
ever mistake for a non-were. That.. is just my opinion though.
I'm just saying... making assumptions about what's inside someoen else's
head, without the experience of having been inside it, can be rather silly.
In short... to paraphrase Whoopi Goldberg "Penguin, how would you know
[what sex feels like]".
Hmmm... I'm reading back over my post and I sound really snappy. I assure
you I don;t mean to, but I don;t want to take the time to re-type it all
more nice-sounding, because my connection will time out and I'll have to
restart my !@#!@# computer. <G>
So please, Mudge... I intend no hostility.
Coyote Osborne
In article <01bc2dd3$072759a0$bfc3...@Wolffang.montrose.net>, "Wolf Fang"
<wolf...@montrose.net> wrote:
> An interesting thought poped into my head recently, well maybe not
> interesting, after all it is 1:30, on why there are so many were's with
> both canine and feline sides. Well, it seems that not that many millions of
> years ago, canines and felines had a common ancester.
I'd also like to add that bears and raccoons share that common ancestor...
I believe that bears are more closely related to canids than to say,
raccoons though.
Coyote Osborne
> sett...@pa.mother.com wrote:
> >
> > WolfFang:
> >
> > I can understand that some animals may be related to each other in myths.
> > Wolves and ravens, for example.
> >
> > What I'm asking more directly is what about cases where people have two
> > weresides that pretty directly conflict, like phoenix and centaur, or
> > cheetah and wolf (having absolutely nothing in common as far as I can
> > tell)?
You think that cheetahs and wolves conflict, but ravems and wolves are similar?
Ravens and wolves have a semi-co-operative relationship i the wild. Wolves
kill stuff and open carcasses... ravens eat the goodies left (birds don;t
need a whole caribous anyway).... ravens can fly around and locate prey
animals (or threats) and (whether they do it deliberately or not is open to
debate) alert wolves to their presence.
But they're very different critters, ravens and wolves.
Cheetahs and wolves, on teh other hand, are extremely similar in behavior
and hunting style and other things.
Both live in close family groups, both hunt primarily by running and
tearing with teeth, both share similar relations with scavengers like
ravens/jackals/whatever eats the leftovers.
Coyote Osborne
In article
<Pine.LNX.3.95.97032...@instinct.lycanthrope.org>,
<isb...@lycanthrope.org> wrote:
> > > years ago, canines and felines had a common ancester.
>
> One other likelihood is that cats and dogs are common household pets;
> thus, canids and felids are the animals that humans have the most contact
> with.
<nod>
> > I'd also like to add that bears and raccoons share that common ancestor...
> > I believe that bears are more closely related to canids than to say,
> > raccoons though.
>
> Actually bears and raccoons share a common ancestor that is more recent in
> evolutionary terms. Thus they are about equally related to canids.
I'll take your word for it.
I completely forget where hyenas fit in.
Spyder Witiko
In article <coyotee-ya0240800...@news.miami.mindspring.com>,
coy...@miami.mindspring.com (Coyote Osborne) wrote:
"> I'll take your word for it.
">
"> I completely forget where hyenas fit in.
Closer to cats than dogs, I remember...
- Spyder Witiko, kokodhem-at-large
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