Garage door torsion spring broken ... and ... I have no questions! :)

[Danny D'Amico]

The wife screamed there was a gunshot in the garage and yelled at me to
grab the grandkids and shoo them out the front door immediately.

This is what I found in the garage:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif

The funny thing is, we've already covered *everything* here, on
alt.home.repair; so, I have no additional questions for you guys!
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/10546730243_faccf1e6c8_o.gif

I'll give Dan at DDM Garage Doors a call in the morning, and, I'll have
yet another garage door torsion spring repair under my belt.

I'll measure the springs, upgrade to heavier-duty springs (I'll aim for
around 40K cycles), order new springs, winding cones, bearings, cables,
hinges, etc. (as needed) - and I'll remove and install everything
(probably in about an hour).

Thanks to all your past advice and help - there just isn't anything
unknown about the DIY replacement of this particular garage door torsion
spring repair. (Or so I hope.) :)

[chaniarts]

then i take it this isn't the one we spent so much time on not too long ago?

[micky]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:38:17 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dan...@is.invalid> wrote:

>The wife screamed there was a gunshot in the garage and yelled at me to
>grab the grandkids and shoo them out the front door immediately.
>
>This is what I found in the garage:
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif
>
>The funny thing is, we've already covered *everything* here, on
>alt.home.repair; so, I have no additional questions for you guys!
> http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/10546730243_faccf1e6c8_o.gif

Is this really a torsion spring, or is it a flex spring that has been
wound up in to a coil?

>
>I'll give Dan at DDM Garage Doors a call in the morning, and, I'll have
>yet another garage door torsion spring repair under my belt.

>/////

>Thanks to all your past advice and help - there just isn't anything
>unknown about the DIY replacement of this particular garage door torsion
>spring repair. (Or so I hope.) :)

Don't forget to tie something so it doesn't come loose and spring back
in your face. I never understood exactly what to tie.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:17:57 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

> then i take it this isn't the one we spent so much time on not too long
> ago?

The one last time was this smaller single-spring garage door:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/10564820884_2729d6a11e_o.gif

This spring is the larger door twice it's size, right next to it.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif

The real problem last time had nothing to do, per se, with replacing the
torsion spring with an upgraded spring and new bearings.

The problem then was that there was NOTHING holding either end flag in
place, nor anything under the center support ... so, the entire setup had
to be jury rigged because the new heavier longer stronger spring caused a
greater load on the unsupported components.

That problem was a one off.

But, it included taking apart the entire garage door setup more than a
few times, so, by now, simply replacing two torsion springs should be a
breeze (since I'll just go back to the old threads for the DIY details).

Thanks for all your help in the past!

Now I know exactly when the Huckleberries are in season, without having
to ask!

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 15:06:34 -0400, micky wrote:

> Is this really a torsion spring, or is it a flex spring that has been
> wound up in to a coil?

> Don't forget to tie something so it doesn't come loose and spring back
> in your face. I never understood exactly what to tie.

Yes, it's a torsion spring, so, AFAIK, there's nothing to "tie".
(Maybe you're talking about extension springs?)

The 18-foot long 1" diameter torsion rod is what keeps the torsion spring
from killing you when it breaks.

BTW, the total costs in upgraded parts & shipping was around $150:
Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.243"thick, 35.25"long SPB-243-35-25L
Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.243"thick, 35.25"long SPB-243-35-25R
Bearings 1" Freeway Heavy Duty 2"OD BE-100
Shipping
Total = $150

The old springs were only 10,000 duty cycle, while these (longer and
thicker) springs are 41,000 duty cycle, so, they should last almost 30
years, used four times a day, every day.

BTW, this would have been a 1:1 replacement of the old springs:
Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.225"thick, 24.25"long SPB-225-24-25L
Torsion Spring & Cone: 2"ID, 0.225"thick, 24.25"long SPB-225-24-25R

But, those springs would only last about 7 years, used 4 times a day.

PS: I guess there is one question. I hate waste.
Q: What can I do that's useful with the OLD unbroken spring?

[hrho...@sbcglobal.net]

Keep it hanging up on a nail in your garage. It is cheap insurance that neither of your new matched springs will fail, because you could use the spare as a replacement in the event of a break and not be trapped without a spring.

Otherwise, put it out at the curb on garbage day and the recyclers that pick up scrap metal will probably take it. Or, if there is a place that buys scrap metal handy, take it there.

[micky]

I took a fire-damaged stove to the city recycling place, and before I
could get up to the gate, a guy stopped me. He was waiting there just
for people like me. Maybe he was even willing to pay me something for
it, but since I was going to dispose of it, I just gave it to him and
he put it in his pickup and later sold it to a metal recycler.

I sold a sorted pick-up load of copper, aluminum, and steel scrap to a
junk yard a couple years ago, but I don't remember how much they paid
for any of them.

[micky]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 17:37:54 -0700 (PDT), "hrho...@sbcglobal.net"
<hrho...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>

>Otherwise, put it out at the curb on garbage day

Or before garbage day, to give people the maximum amount of time to
see it. Although around here and at my friend's in the city, I
don't think there are any recyclers patrolling. It's just by chance
that people who want the stuff sometimes see these things.

[Higgs Boson]

I went to all the trouble to pack up a bunch of aluminum and other metal junque from and took it to the local city recycling place (contracted out). Guess what they wanted to pay me. $0.35!!! I demanded it back, took it outside, and dumped it in the free bin. So much for an hour of my time.

HB

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 21:41:43 -0400, micky wrote:

> I took a fire-damaged stove to the city recycling place, and before I
> could get up to the gate, a guy stopped me. He was waiting there just
> for people like me. Maybe he was even willing to pay me something for
> it, but since I was going to dispose of it, I just gave it to him and he
> put it in his pickup and later sold it to a metal recycler.

One time a friend gave me a beer keg setup, from which I used the carbon
dioxide tank and regulators for my home made soda fountain.

The wife didn't like the aluminum keg in the garage, so I took it to the
recyclers, and, guess what?

They wouldn't even take it.
Said something about it being against the law.

So, on my way out, I asked some guys who could barely speak English
unloading a pickup if they wanted it, and, they took it right out of my
hands.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 21:43:46 -0400, micky wrote:

>>Otherwise, put it out at the curb on garbage day
>

> Or before garbage day, to give people the maximum amount
> of time to see it.

Well, it sure cost a fortune to ship the new springs, so, they must be
HEAVY!

So, it's worth something, to a recycler, in steel.

I guess I'll just throw it in the recycling bin.

I *might* try to again remove the cones, just for the practice, but, the
last time I tried that, I failed miserably.

There's a really good *reason* most homeowners buy their torsion springs
with the cones already on them!

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:38:17 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif
> http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/10546730243_faccf1e6c8_o.gif

BTW, did you guys notice that the spring, which I oiled a year ago when I
did my other garage door, must have broken violently, since you can see
the spattered oil in those two pictures above, at exactly the point where
the spring broke.

It's interesting that that indicates that the circumferential forces must
have been greatest at the site of the breakage.

Where is DDK_Bob when we need him to make astute engineering sense out of
this observation! :)

[Stormin Mormon]

I've found different yards handle things differently.
One place, I'll never go back. Always got under paid.
Another yard is generous, a third one is some where in
the middle.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[micky]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 21:41:43 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>
>
>I sold a sorted pick-up load of copper, aluminum, and steel scrap to a

by pick-up, I meant pick-up truck, that carried up to a ton probably,
though the loosely piled metal weighed far far less than that.

>junk yard a couple years ago, but I don't remember how much they paid
>for any of them.

The copper was the most expensive and I'm vaguely recalling that we
got $40 for that. The steel was the most plentiful, and maybe we
got $50 for that. There was not a lot of aluminum, but maybe we got
$15 for it, a tolal of 105. I think the total was more like 140.

This was from a small building that was being torn down. The copper
was mostly from the radiant heating pipes, in baseboards along the
social hall. Maybe 100 feet of it. And electric wires, still with
insulation. The rest was miscellaneous.

At the combination junkyard/scrapyard, where I had also gone to buy
parts for my car, they removed the copper and weighed that. Maybe
they had a factor to account for the aluminum fins that were still on.
Same with the aluminum. Then they weighed the truck, removed the
steel, and weighed the truck again.


http://trustwaymetal.com/category/scrap-metal/ how to recycle
refrigerators, water heaters, stuff found on the side of the road.
Peeking at these pages, none of them look like a very good idea for
someone who has a real job.

[Oren]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 23:38:55 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dan...@is.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:17:57 -0700, chaniarts wrote:
>
>> then i take it this isn't the one we spent so much time on not too long
>> ago?
>
>The one last time was this smaller single-spring garage door:
> http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/10564820884_2729d6a11e_o.gif

... and a couple of us tried to get you to pull the sheet rock down so
we could see the header beam. And add vertical 2X6 lumber to lag bolt
into. Sheet rock is cheap - you could have saved some time, doing it
the right way.

s/ Huckleberry

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 02:31:20 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> Well, it sure cost a fortune to ship the new springs

UPDATE:
They arrived today ... but I'm still waiting for the other parts.

The cost to ship was almost exactly one dollar for pound!

There's something gorgeous about a tight set of springs!
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7442/10578548715_cc0a06e739_o.gif

[Oren]

Danny,

Are the colors on the spring (blue) the same as on the old spring?
Yes. it matters. I got lost in this thread :)

We talked about how springs use colors, etc., for reasons. When the
spring is tightened, the marks on the coils will off-set ...

btw. you done good in your DIY GDO project.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:45 -0700, Oren wrote:

> Are the colors on the spring (blue) the same as on the old spring?
> Yes. it matters. I got lost in this thread

Hi Oren,
I'm a bit confused by your question, because, I don't think it matters what
color the huckleberries (um, I mean, springs) are.

We actually covered this at one point in the old DIY thread. Painted colors
are, essentially, an old wives tale, which, like all half truths, has some
merit, but enough fiction so as to actually be meaningless in the end.

What I mean by that is that, sure, *some* companies use, say, gold paint
for spring size 0.225; and, say, green paint for size 0.243; and,
say, blue paint for size 0.250 (wire diameter, in inches).

This is the "truth" part of the old wives tale.

The problem is that there is *no universal color convention*. So, while a guy
who owns his own garage door repair business knows all *his* 0.250 springs
are painted blue, the actual color on someone elses' springs may use an
entirely different color convention.

The color only means something to *him* because, to him, especially when time is
money, he knows his previous (now broken) spring was painted gold, so he can
then replace one of his old (gold) springs with the same color (gold), since
he would know that his springs followed one particular color convention.

Since his time means his money, he can match gold-for-gold, and he doesn't have
to measure anything. He saves a few minutes. Plus, even if he measured, he has
a doublecheck (nothing wrong with that).

So, for FOUR good reasons, spring color is meaningless to me:
1. There is no color standard; so, to rely on color is folly.
2. I measured my spring wire diameter; so, I have no need to rely on color.
[and most important]
3. I'm UPGRADING my wire diameter, so, I'd never match color anyway
[and, besides]
4. My springs are so old that there is no color paint visible anyway.

Note: The "red" used for the bolts on the winding cones "supposedly" means
"danger"; but, again, anyone relying on paint to tell them what's dangerous
doesn't really understand what they're doing.

Likewise, the red on stationary cones is often used to indicate right-hand
threads; however, again, anyone relying on the color of a cone to tell them
the direction of a thread doesn't really understand what they're doing.

Color paint is fine as a doublecheck; but not as a primary indicator of anything.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:45 -0700, Oren wrote:

> We talked about how springs use colors, etc., for reasons. When the
> spring is tightened, the marks on the coils will off-set ...

This "color" is something else altogether.
There are 5 uses of paint on a spring (only one of which is useful):

1. Color used to denote wire gauge (we covered this in the prior post).
2. Color (usually red) used to denote dangerous bolts (covered prior).
3. Color (usually red) used to denote the wind direction (covered prior).
4. Color (usually a line of #1 above) used to count turns.
5. Color (usually a line added by the homeowner) used to indicate slip.

Since we covered the first three uses of color in the prior post, let's
explain the next two (of which, only the last one is useful).

Here is a picture of the new (larger wire gauge) springs:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7442/10578548715_01e0f14be0_b.jpg

Here is a picture of the old (smaller wire gauge) springs:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif

Here is a picture of my spring that I put in a year ago on another door:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/10564820884_2729d6a11e_o.gif

It's hard to see in the picture, but last year's spring has both #4 and #5
in my list painted in white paint on it. $4 was painted *before* the spring
was installed (it shows up as 7 spirals); while #5 was painted *after* the
spring was mounted (it shows up as a straight line but it's not really visible
in the photo).

Regarding #4:

It's folly to use the spiral lines to count turns for a whole bunch of reasons,
but, mainly because the better way to count turns is to count from 28 to 30
quarter turns (for a 7-foot door). You couldn't possibly make a full turn
with the winding bars, so, counting quarter turns makes practical sense
(as explained by Dan Musick in all his videos) since that's what you do.

The *reason* for 28 to 30 quarter turns isn't as obvious, but, it's simply
because a drum is "about" a foot in circumference (it's actually about 13
inches, and the diameter actually changes as the wire winds, but, let's not
get picky right now).

So, every full turn is a foot of cable, and since the door is 7 feet tall,
it would take 7 full turns to raise the door the full 7 feet. Since you
can't do full turns, that's 7x4 quarter turns, or 28 quarter turns.

Since you want a slight bit of tension on the door, that would be slightly
more than 28 quarter turns, and, since the drum isn't exactly one foot, nor
do you raise the door exactly 7 feet, you really need an extra quarter turn
or two, so, the typical number of quarter turns is greater than 28, but,
depending on balance, might be 29 or 30.

Regarding #5:
The *only* color on the springs which, in the end, is useful, is a line
painted straight on a spring *after* it has been mounted. Why? Because
if that line isn't straight, then the spring has slipped. This generally
happens over a long period of time, say, 5 years later, as the spring
steel fatigues.

Of course, another way to know whether a spring is fatiguing is simply
to measure (with your hands) the sprung weight of the door at the midpoint,
but, for the price of painting a line, it's still an ok thing to visualize
the slippage, over time, in the spring with that white line.

In summary, there are five uses of color in a torsion spring, and, only one
of them has even the slightest amount of value.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:45 -0700, Oren wrote:

> Are the colors on the spring (blue) the same as on the old spring?
> Yes. it matters.

Hi Oren,

One more thing about color.

Often, people who do not understand torsion springs are the ones calling
the garage door repairman who has to ask them questions to ascertain what
springs he needs to load on the truck.

So, that guy, on the phone, asks about color.

Why does he ask about color?

Because, if he were to ask the little old lady reporting her garage door
won't open what direction the spring was wound, she couldn't tell him.

But, for a single spring door, if he asks what color the cone was painted,
she could tell him "red". That would indicate, to him, most of the time,
that there is a good chance that this is a RHW spring. So he'd make sure
that spring was on the truck.

Likewise, he'd have a hard time asking her to measure the wire gauge of
the old spring. So, he might ask "What color is the line on the spring",
and she could tell him "it's blue". That way, if the spring is similar to
the brand he uses, he'd know to put a 'blue' spring on the truck.

Since the original springs are most likely the cheap 10,000 cycle
"industry standard", for him, blue would equate to blue, and he'd know
what to give her.

But he'd certainly check (by simply measuring ten or twenty coils and dividing
to get the wire gauge) before installing the new blue spring. If the gauge
was off, he'd put the right spring on (if it was on the truck).

So, color doesn't really matter.
It only gives the guy an easy (but highly inaccurate) way to ask what the
dimensions of the spring are of people who know nothing about springs.

Of course, that's most of the population; so, I guess, color matters, in that
case.

But, to me, color is meaningless, and I don't rely on color for anything
other than a quick doublecheck.

[micky]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 00:08:42 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dan...@is.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 15:06:34 -0400, micky wrote:
>
>> Is this really a torsion spring, or is it a flex spring that has been
>> wound up in to a coil?
>> Don't forget to tie something so it doesn't come loose and spring back
>> in your face. I never understood exactly what to tie.
>
>Yes, it's a torsion spring, so, AFAIK, there's nothing to "tie".
>(Maybe you're talking about extension springs?)

No, not extension springs. I should have been clearer, but I was
talking then about when installing the spring, not about storing it.

In your picture, especially the close-up, what is the role of the coil
spring? It's either two springs with 3 or 4 inches in between, or one
spring that has broken in two.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 23:40:19 -0400, micky wrote:

> In your picture, especially the close-up, what is the role of the coil
> spring? It's either two springs with 3 or 4 inches in between, or one
> spring that has broken in two.

Heh heh. That's a broken spring.
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/10546730243_faccf1e6c8_o.gif

The spring is attached at both ends so neither end can move.
When you wind a spring 7-1/2 turns, it "grows" by the thickness of 7-1/2 coils.
Plus, you manually stretch it outward another coil thickness to prevent binding.

If your wire gauge is, say, 1/4 inch, then that's about 8 coils (roughly) that
the spring will expand when wound and set. That's about 2 inches that the spring
grows.

Since the spring is bolted down on both ends, when it breaks, there will be
that distance between them.

In my picture below, the spring on the left is broken. The spring on the right
is intact:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif

These are the replacement springs from DDM Garage Doors (which arrived only one
day after they were shipped):
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7442/10578548715_01e0f14be0_b.jpg

You'll notice the new (upgraded) springs are black (galvanized isn't worth
anything, in reality); one winding cone has red paint on it (the RHW spring);
there is a blue line painted straight (which will coil 7 times); and that
the dimensions are painted on it, which are 35-1/4 inches long, with a wire
gauge of 0.243 inches.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:45 -0700, Oren wrote:

> Are the colors on the spring (blue) the same as on the old spring?
> Yes. it matters.

Hi Oren,

Given color is meaningless, what you were probably getting at is that almost
everyone replaces the old spring with the same size wire gauge spring.

My problem was that the old spring had something like a 10,000 duty cycle
rating. I wanted to replace it with a spring with something like a 40,000
cycle rating.

If I open the door 4 times a day for 365 days a year, the 10,000 cycle
spring would last only about 7 years, while the 40,000 cycle spring
would last about 27 years (within round-off errors).

These are the dimensions of the old springs:
2"ID, 0.225" wire gauge, 24-1/4" long, P/N SPB-225-24-25L/R

These are the dimensions of the new springs:
2"ID, 0.243" wire gauge, 35-1/4" long, P/N SPB-243-35-25L/R

All that matters for duty cycle is the thickness. You'll note that
the old springs were 0.225" thick, while the new springs are 0.243"
thick. This gives me the additional duty cycle rating.

Of course, the new springs are therefore about a foot longer and a
few pounds heavier than the old springs were, and they cost about
15% more; but, the benefit is that I get four times the use out of
something that is exactly the same effort to install.

BTW, the spring calculators on Dan Musick's DDM Garage Doors web
site makes all these calculations a breeze.
http://ddmgaragedoors.com/springs/garage-door-springs.php

PS: I wouldn't recommend anyone *other* than Dan if you need to
replace your springs. He's a great guy. He's helpful. He'll talk to
you on the phone. He'll fix his videos if you see a problem with
them. And, he will even cut you a break when you need it (he gave
me free stuff, for example, when I ran into bearing problems).

[Oren]

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 03:11:54 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<dan...@is.invalid> wrote:

>The problem is that there is *no universal color convention*.

I was confused by thinking there was a "standard" for the colors.

Thanks.

[Danny D'Amico]

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:19:26 -0700, Oren wrote:

> I was confused by thinking there was a "standard" for the colors.

Yeah. Everyone focuses on the color. Even if there *was* a standard,
the springs I chose are a wholly different size, so, the original
color (if it even could be ascertained), wouldn't have mattered.

BTW, I complete the job, twice, today, before taking the grandkids out
for trick or treating, and, then heading out to an adult gettogether.

I have to complete it one more time tomorrow.
gnite...

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:38:17 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> This is what I found in the garage:
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7329/10546499905_85e2064872_o.gif

> http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3682/10546730243_faccf1e6c8_o.gif

UPDATE:

The deed is done.
1. I replaced the old 24 inch 112# lift springs with 35 112# lift springs.
2. The duty cycle rose from 12K cycles (7 years) to 41K cycles (28 years).
3. I replaced the old plastic center bearing with a heavy duty bearing.
4. I replaced the old metal end plate bearings with heavy duty bearings.

The only problem I had was that I made a noob mistake when I took all the
bearings out to snap this picture for you guys:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5522/10616215013_2abce8c588_h.jpg

When I put those bearings back, I put them in BACKWARD! (auuuurgggh!)
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3732/10615895745_6a33ea9a7d_b.jpg

I didn't realize this, until I noticed the door opening kind'a funny
(as the bearings were pushed OUT of their seating location!).
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7443/10616008696_f77f8c2437_b.jpg

Anyway, it's all good now (I'll write to Dan Musick and ask him to
beef up the tutorials, since they don't actually say which direction
the bearings are supposed to go). That way, the NEXT person following
in our footsteps doesn't make that idiotic mistake (slaps head!):
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2813/10615955516_54cd689400_b.jpg

BTW, Since the new spring is 10 inches longer than the old spring,
I did get to see how deeply my indents went, as shown below:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/10616201963_c15b1c1ac1_b.jpg

Notice the quarter inch markings, which is described in Dan's
videos at his DDM Garage Doors website.

Also notice the spackle on the torsion rod.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5517/10615968584_3c93bec751_b.jpg

Given that, I think the springs I replaced were the originals.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 11:24:16 -0700, Oren wrote:

> ... and a couple of us tried to get you to pull the sheet rock down so
> we could see the header beam. And add vertical 2X6 lumber to lag bolt
> into. Sheet rock is cheap - you could have saved some time, doing it
> the right way.

I did the best I could.

The one good thing is that the right end flag of this large door is well
anchored, since I did that last time when I fixed the smaller door end flag:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3669/10615953186_9fa9cbf2e2_b.jpg

But, the left end flag is just swaying in the breeze, because it has nothing
under it. But, luckily, this center support doesn't sway because we have
TWO springs (which counteract the twisting forces):
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2813/10615955516_54cd689400_b.jpg

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:38:17 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> Thanks to all your past advice and help - there just isn't anything
> unknown about the DIY replacement of this particular garage door torsion
> spring repair. (Or so I hope.)

LESSONS LEARNED:

The only really new lesson learned was to CHECK the direction of the
bearings before winding the springs!

I had to take my entire setup apart TWICE, simply because I took
all the bearings out (to photograph them), and FORGOT what direction
to put them back! (mea culpa)


LESSONS LEARNED:

Here is a shot of the old parts, and all the tools used:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3705/10615937585_f851b2867e_b.jpg
1. 18" long 1/2 inch round soft steel winding bars (from DDM garage doors)
2. 7/16 open-end wrench (for all set screws)
3. Two 9/16" open-ended wrenches (for the center support bolts)
4. 10" vise grip (to lock the torsion bar when winding)
5. Safety glasses
6. Marker (to mark initial pulley position & spring extra quarter inch)
7. Tape measure (to measure old spring coil thickness)
8. Plastic pipe (to push out the old bearings from the end plates)
9. Mallet (to push new spring out 1/4 inch from initial stop point)
10. Oil can (to oil the new springs to minimize friction & binding)
11. Flashlight (to see whether the cable is coiling properly)
12. Spray paint (to paint a straight line when all is wound)

Note: I threw away the spray-paint can as it was out of paint,
so, unfortunately, it's not in the DIY tools list photo above.

[Vic Smith]

Good stuff, Danny. I had a new steel door put up last year.
2 spring. Didn't cost much, and I didn't want to deal with getting
rid of the old wood door.
Anyway it works smooth as silk, and is dead quiet going up and down.
Thing is, when the opener is detached, it seems heavy to lift.
Maybe like lifting 40-50 lbs.
In the past I tightened my springs so the door could be lifted with
one finger. Less work for the motor.
Don't recall you mentioning the "correct" tension.
Any advice on that?

[Oren]

On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 22:11:47 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dan...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:38:17 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:
>
>> Thanks to all your past advice and help - there just isn't anything
>> unknown about the DIY replacement of this particular garage door torsion
>> spring repair. (Or so I hope.)
>
>LESSONS LEARNED:
>
>The only really new lesson learned was to CHECK the direction of the
>bearings before winding the springs!
>

Look on both sides of the bearing... the worn sides face each other :)

... make a chalk or pencil mark before you take it apart

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 16:31:14 -0700, Oren wrote:

> ... make a chalk or pencil mark before you take it apart

Yup!

I wrote to Dan (and to Richard Kinch) to ask them to update
their tutorials with this information.

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 18:29:42 -0500, Vic Smith wrote:

> had a new steel door put up last year. 2 spring.

The main thing I fault the new door installers with (and so
does Richard Kinch) is that they save a few bucks giving you
a 7-year spring, while it only costs you a few bucks to upgrade
that to 28 years if you choose the spring yourself.

> when the opener is detached, it seems heavy to lift.
> Maybe like lifting 40-50 lbs.

That's way way way too much. It should be almost weightless.
There's no sense in making the GDO do all that work (plus,
they have cheap plastic gears, I'm told).

If the spring is the correct spring and it is wound the correct
number of quarter turns, the door shouldn't weigh more than about
a half a pound or so (i.e., just enough to keep it from springing
up when you detach the GDO and open the door half way and then
let it go).

Mine I could open with my pinky almost. Certainly just a couple
of fingers lifted the door once I adjusted the quarter turns
properly.

Go to the DDM site and read the part about adjusting the doors.
http://ddmgaragedoors.com/diy-instructions/troubleshooting.php

> In the past I tightened my springs so the door could be lifted with
> one finger. Less work for the motor.
> Don't recall you mentioning the "correct" tension.
> Any advice on that?

Yup. Last time, I helped a friend with his door which was too heavy
when we tested it after replacing cables. So, we simply added a quarter
turn or two to adjust the door until it was weightless again.

The rule of thumb is to multiply quarter turns by the number of feet
(assuming normal homeowner garage door geometries) and add two.

So, for my 7' tall door, that's (4x7)+2=30 quarter turns.

If 30 quarter turns works out for you when you do the weightless test,
then you're done. If not, you add or subtract quarter turns just like
you did in the past.

In my case this time, I didn't need to. Last time I did. Different
doors though, so, each one will be different in that respect.

[Danny D.]

On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:19:26 -0700, Oren wrote:

> I was confused by thinking there was a "standard" for the colors.

Just to be clear, there "is" a standard color code:
http://www.dasma.com/PDF/Publications/TechDataSheets/CommercialResidential/TDS171.pdf

It's just that nobody really follows it; and, even if they did, it's hard to tell
what color a spring is after being on a door for ten years.

For example, what color is my old spring painted splotch?

Is that splotch in the middle of both springs tan? gold? yellow?
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3705/10615937585_f851b2867e_b.jpg

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:45 -0700, Oren wrote:

> When the spring is tightened, the marks on the coils
> will off-set ...

Dan Musick personally told me NOT to measure the number
of turns of the painted stripe in the spring, because
it's much more logical (and intuitive) to just count
quarter turns.

He also suggested, last time, I paint an additional
stripe AFTER the spring is installed.

The results show here, where you can see residual tension
on the spring when the door is all the way up (i.e., the
spring is unwound):
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2813/10615955516_2b498d8525_o.gif

[Danny D'Amico]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:45 -0700, Oren wrote:

> When the spring is tightened, the marks on the coils will off-set ...

I just belatedly realized another reason why I wouldn't trust a count
of spirals on a torsion spring.

Notice in this photo of my old & new springs, the painted blue line
doesn't even extend the full length of the spring.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5522/10616215013_2abce8c588_h.jpg

So, any count of spirals would be off.

[Oren]

On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 01:46:47 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dan...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 09:19:26 -0700, Oren wrote:
>
>> I was confused by thinking there was a "standard" for the colors.
>
>Just to be clear, there "is" a standard color code:
> http://www.dasma.com/PDF/Publications/TechDataSheets/CommercialResidential/TDS171.pdf
>
>It's just that nobody really follows it; and, even if they did, it's hard to tell
>what color a spring is after being on a door for ten years.
>

The link supports what you said in other posts:

"CAUTION: Color codes should be substantiated by physical spring
measurements, door weights, and other information as recommended by
the spring manufacturer, to insure the proper replacement,
particularly on older installations."

>For example, what color is my old spring painted splotch?
>
>Is that splotch in the middle of both springs tan? gold? yellow?
> http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3705/10615937585_f851b2867e_b.jpg

...pick one

[Danny D'Amico]

On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 00:38:17 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> I'll remove and install everything (probably in about an hour).

I was just checking this thread to see if anyone updated it,
and noticed this prediction of mine.

In a perfect world, replacing both springs would take about
an hour; but it took me, oh, about 3 hours, I'd say, in toto.

Of course, that's because I had to take time to review the videos
on the DDM Garage Doors site, and, unfortunately, because I made the
mistake of putting the bearings on backward (hence, I actually did
the job three times).

Hmmm mmmm... I guess, since I did the job 3 times, and it took me
3 hours, that averages out to about an hour ... in the end.

:)