Garage door torsion spring relocation project (Status = Not going well)

[Danny D.]

My garage door torsion spring relocation is NOT going well.

First, I tried to relocate the spring anchor plate 18" to
the left where I 'thought' there was wood - but that turned
out to be a solid steel beam!

Then, I moved it 12" to the right, where I 'thought' there
was a cripple stud - but - it was just a flimsy piece of wood:

Here is a picture of the relocation:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499510/img/11499510.jpg

Here is a closeup of that relocation:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499496/img/11499496.jpg

Then, I started work on the right end bearing plate.

Amazingly, there isn't any wood ANYWHERE near it.

What I need is a thick (3 or 4 inch wide) steel plate in the
shape of a big "T" - but I could find nothing like it at
Home Depot.
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499495/img/11499495.jpg

QUESTION:
Q: Where can I find sheet metal in the shape of a big "T"?

Note: I need a "T" roughly about a foot long by a foot tall
by about 2 inches wide.

[recycl...@gmail.com]

With a good quality drill bit
that is slightly smaller in diameter
than the bolts that you want to use,
drill into the steel beam.
Don’t let the drill bit get hot,
dip it in water frequently.
Use a tap and plenty of WD40 to tap threads into the steel.
Be patient and back out the tap frequently to clean it.

[Danny D.]

Here is the left side of that same garage door.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499553/img/11499553.jpg

Notice a large garage door to the left and the smaller one
with the replaced torsion spring to the right.

Both have air under the top foot of the track! :(

Do you think it's better to tie the two garage door tracks
together with a strip of metal?

Or should I tie each track separately to the wood 2x4
above it (which is the support for the overhead storage
area)?

[hr(bob) hofmann@att.net]

Your photos don't make much sense without seeing the larger picture of
what it is you are showing the close-ups.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 20:42:04 -0800, hr(bob) hof...@att.net wrote:

> Your photos don't make much sense without seeing the larger
> picture of what it is you are showing the close-ups.

OK. I'm always glad to provide detail.

Here's the larger picture:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499725/img/11499725.jpg

A summary of the problem is that the original builders put
the garage up with NOTHING underneath the top foot of the
vertical tracks. The result is that the end bearing plates
sway when the garage door is opened.

There is also nothing under the spring anchor plate. The
result is that it too sways when the garage door is open.

All I'm trying to do is prevent the end bearing plates and
the spring anchor plate from moving when the door opens.

My plan was to:
a) Move the spring anchor plate over to a cripple stud
b) Add a bearing to the spring anchor plate
c) Secure both the end bearing plates to 'something'

The picture above is the big picture, while the pictures
I posted prior are the closeup pictures of the situation.

[tra...@optonline.net]

If what you think is there is really there, it would seem some
mighty interesting construction. You say there is a steel
beam near the center of the door. If that's true, what is it
doing? The only logical thing would be that it runs across
the door opening. Yet you say to the right of it, there is no
steel, just air.....

Also don't know what kind of sheet metal is a foot by a foot
by 2". Sounds like what you want is some plate steel that
is 3/16" or so thick to me. Have you used a stud locater to
mark out what is solid in the wall?
the middle of the door. That would seem to

[dpb]

On 11/26/2012 10:04 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> My garage door torsion spring relocation is NOT going well.
>
> First, I tried to relocate the spring anchor plate 18" to
> the left where I 'thought' there was wood - but that turned
> out to be a solid steel beam!
>
> Then, I moved it 12" to the right, where I 'thought' there
> was a cripple stud - but - it was just a flimsy piece of wood:

...

As has been said I don't know how many times---open up the damn cavity,
see what is there and add blocking or other solid structure where you
need it and be done w/ it.

--

[Oren]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:05:28 -0600, dpb <no...@non.net> wrote:

>As has been said I don't know how many times---open up the damn cavity,
>see what is there and add blocking or other solid structure where you
>need it and be done w/ it.

Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all
the angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.

He just needs three cripple studs and bolt into the wood. Each side
and at the center.

[dpb]

On 11/27/2012 11:41 AM, Oren wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 08:05:28 -0600, dpb<no...@non.net> wrote:
>
>> As has been said I don't know how many times---open up the damn cavity,
>> see what is there and add blocking or other solid structure where you
>> need it and be done w/ it.
>
> Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all
> the angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.

...

Because he doesn't know what he's doing and is impervious to advice
apparently. :(

Pretty typical novice diy'er or homeowner symptom ime--for some reason
there's an unreasonable fear of opening a wall.

To OP...there's nothing to fear; just open it up so you can get where
you need to be and do what needs to be done. Putting up some sheetrock
or other wall surface later is trivial. If you do it cleanly, you can
probably even salvage the existing but it's cheap; I'd just take it out
and go on.

--

[Oren]

He could minimize the cutting of the sheet rock. Like this and install
the cripple studs.

Mine:

Double door

<http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=21m4syf&s=6>

Single door

<http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=70upf9&s=6>

[dpb]

On 11/27/2012 12:19 PM, Oren wrote:
...

> He could minimize the cutting of the sheet rock. Like this and install
> the cripple studs.

...

One cut is pretty much the same as another... :)

What he's got to do is to get enough of an access where he needs the
support to find out what's behind there he can attach to (and then do it).

So far he's just made a mess and a bunch of little and not so little
holes and has nothing to show for it. My best estimation is he'll
continue that way until he does something different.

I don't give a rat's patootie how big a hole it is or isn't, just that
he do something besides whine here about how his efforts to avoid doing
what is really a trivial job when he's been given the direction he needs
aren't working... :)

I'd just as soon patch the whole piece as several smaller, but that's
immaterial to actually accomplishing the end objective.

--

[denni...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:56:14 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> I don't give a rat's patootie how big a hole it is or isn't, just that
> he do something besides whine here about how his efforts to avoid doing
> what is really a trivial job when he's been given the direction he needs
> aren't working... :)

Isn't this the same "Danny D" that came on here telling us not to tell him to hire a professional to deal with his broken torsion garage door springs? He knew it all, and what he didn't, he could figure out for himself?

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:41:16 -0800, Oren wrote:

> Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all the
> angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.
>
> He just needs three cripple studs and bolt into the wood. Each side and
> at the center.

I've never done structural work in my life.
I've never ripped off wallboard - nor have I ever repaired the results.

Yet, I have made a project worse (and worse and worse) in my life
by taking apart too much - and never putting it back together.

In short ... I don't really want to rip off all the wallboard
because I'm afraid I'll never put it back and there will be an
unsightly hole in my garage for years.

Of course, I had never replaced a torsion spring before either ...
:)

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:45:31 -0600, dpb wrote:

> Because he doesn't know what he's doing

Exactly!

> there's a ... fear of opening a wall.

Exactly!

[dpb]

If you're not going to go at it and fix it, then just hire somebody who
will.

There ain't nothing to hurt; you've made more mess to clean up already
than a few joints will be, and it's just a garage unfinished wall, anyway.

--

[Oren]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 20:18:48 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dann...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 09:41:16 -0800, Oren wrote:
>
>> Exactly. Why he is reluctant to do so, we do not know. Adding all the
>> angle iron is giving room for more flexing IMO.
>>
>> He just needs three cripple studs and bolt into the wood. Each side and
>> at the center.
>
>I've never done structural work in my life.

You're the Accountant, right?

>I've never ripped off wallboard - nor have I ever repaired the results.

Okay. That is another project, but not difficult at all. Anything
would look better than what is there now or you can leave it off.

>
>Yet, I have made a project worse (and worse and worse) in my life
>by taking apart too much - and never putting it back together.
>

Don't do that.

>In short ... I don't really want to rip off all the wallboard
>because I'm afraid I'll never put it back and there will be an
>unsightly hole in my garage for years.
>

There has to be block back there as is the steel beam. What hole?

>Of course, I had never replaced a torsion spring before either ...
>:)

You still haven't fixed the dang thing. Until the mounts are secured
you will have future problems.

As granddaddy used to say - "shit or get off the pot"

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 10:19:53 -0800, Oren wrote:

> He could minimize the cutting of the sheet rock.
> Like this and install the cripple studs.

> <http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=21m4syf&s=6>

I saw that one before and admired it because it's
external to the sheetrock - and - it's clear what
it is.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:08:01 -0800, dennisgauge wrote:

> He knew it all, and what he didn't, he could figure out for himself?

Good point.

I actually do not want to cut the sheetrock.
In fact, that's the last thing I want to do.
If I did need to cut the sheetrock, then I 'would' look it up.
(I'm pretty sure how to do it actually - the problem is ugly is ugly.)
Of course, this 'is' a garage - but ugly is still ugly.
Especially if a nail can tell me the same information.

Given that I've put in dozens of nails ...
I think I know what is behind the sheetrock by now.

There's mostly air. And a few steel beams.
This is earthquake country big time - so it shouldn't be surprising.
Plus, the garage has three doors and no external columns - so something
needs to be supporting it all.

Of course, I may be wrong - but what I will do today is look
for what I said I'm looking for.

I'll stop by Praxair welding supplies to see if they have
a steel plate I can drill and then bolt to the wall.

Also, I'll pick up some angle iron and flat steel bands as thick as
I can find them (3 inches wide would be nice but Home Depot had none).

On the right side, I'm pretty sure a steel "T" tied to the beam bolts
with two huge nuts will be sturdy - and I'm pretty sure I can tie the
left side to the overhanging storage area wood - so I'm going in that
direction rather than adding additional cripple studs.

If that fails - I'll add the cripple studs ... on the outside if I can
(as detailed in Oren's pictures).

If all else fails, I 'will' remove the sheetrock and install cripple
studs - but if that was the 'right' way, why didn't the original
installers do the same when they had the chance?

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:43:43 -0800, Oren wrote:

> You're the Accountant, right?

How did you know?

[Oren]

You can't hide...

I'll bet you are the same guy cutting trees and fixing Jandy valves,
right? And you live in California.

[tra...@optonline.net]

On Nov 27, 5:42 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:28:58 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
>

> <danny...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:43:43 -0800, Oren wrote:
>
> >> You're the Accountant, right?
>
> >How did you know?
>
> You can't hide...
>
> I'll bet you are the same guy cutting trees and fixing Jandy valves,
> right? And you live in California.

Anyone who doesn't think they are competent enough to remove and
replace a piece of drywall in a garage should
not be working on an overhead door tension spring.
It's nuts to be buying steel plate, angle iron,
bolts, etc when you DON"T KNOW WHAT'S BEHIND
THE DRYWALL. I fully encourage people to do their
own repairs, given that they possess a reasonable
skill set. However given what's been demonstrated here
and the real potential for something bad to happen, I
suggest calling a pro.

[dpb]

On 11/27/2012 4:26 PM, Danny D. wrote:
...

> There's mostly air. And a few steel beams.

...

Well, if you knew where everything was in there you could have done it
all by now... :(

Just quit dithering around and do it, for heaven's sake. It ain't
rocket science to cut and patch a little sheetrock.

What you need to do is to find out what, specifically the metal is, what
direction the flanges are and to do that you're going to have to be able
to see it.

In all likelihood if you do that you'll find there is a flange at the
top and bottom you can attach to similarly as what Oren showed, but
you'll never get it accomplished w/o seeing what you've got to work with
and what you need to use.

If there is a flange somewhere in the vicinity, then you can either
drill and or simply drill and use a bolt and nut (the which of to either
insert from the rear or place the nut/washer on if insert from outside
you'll have to have a hole to get access for, anyway.

You're trying to make up something far more complex than you need but
you don't know what is the simplest way to go at it because you don't
have a clue as to how it actually was built...

And, the reason they didn't do it before was more than likely laziness
and getting done for the contracted price if it was sublet or have it
work long enough to sell the house if it was a spec house...

--

[Vic Smith]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:26:13 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dann...@yahoo.com> wrote:


>Of course, this 'is' a garage - but ugly is still ugly.
>Especially if a nail can tell me the same information.
>

A nail hitting a sideways 1x2 and one hitting a 2x6 gives you the same
information. But they aren't the same.
As far as ugly - you're not thinking right for what you have to do.
That splotched up dry wall in your pics looks real ugly to me.
Because it's in the way of what you have to do - find or put in place
strong mounting points.
You really have to get past your perception of "ugly."

>
>If all else fails, I 'will' remove the sheetrock and install cripple
>studs - but if that was the 'right' way, why didn't the original
>installers do the same when they had the chance?

Shoddy work is common. I still remember a real estate salesman tell
me and my wife how a finished basement showed "pride of ownership."
All I saw was bad joinery of good material, and was thinking I would
have to tear it all out.
I will say I don't like much finishing in a basement anyway, because
it usually contains the heart of a home's mechanical systems, and I
don't want it all covered up.
And is subject to flooding too.
And I look at a garage as a "rough" workplace too.
Some people prettify their garage with finished drywall, built in
cabinetry, glossy painted floor, etc. That's fine. I can see that.
But your garage doesn't seem to qualify, and splotchy drywall never
looks pretty.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:42:01 -0800, Oren wrote:

> I'll bet you are the same guy cutting trees and fixing Jandy valves,
> right? And you live in California

Wow.

I try to change my nym once every few weeks ... for
anonymity ... but I guess it isn't working.

What gives me away?

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:00:46 -0600, dpb wrote:

> You're trying to make up something far more complex than you need but
> you don't know what is the simplest way to go at it because you don't
> have a clue as to how it actually was built...

Fair enough.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:33:44 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:

> if that was the 'right' way, why didn't the original
>>installers do the same when they had the chance?
>
> Shoddy work is common.

Fair enough.

[Oren]

I can't tell you. It's double top secret.

[Danny D.]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:22:57 -0600, dpb wrote:

> There ain't nothing to hurt; you've made more mess to clean up already
> than a few joints will be, and it's just a garage unfinished wall,
> anyway.

Dan Musick at DDM Garage doors, who was the first to tell me
that my side bearing plates were moving - is the one who suggested
shoring it up with the angle irons he sent me.

He knows doors, doesn't he?

[Oren]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 02:29:43 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dann...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Dan Musick at DDM Garage doors, who was the first to tell me
>that my side bearing plates were moving - is the one who suggested
>shoring it up with the angle irons he sent me.
>
>He knows doors, doesn't he?

Aw hell Danny, add another 40 feet of angle iron.

It still won't make your problem suddenly fixed.

I suggested to get rid of it all and mount to solid wood.

I'm right, aren't I?

I've read this entire thread from day one. Offered help and
suggestions. You are being stubborn about removing the drywall.

[DD_BobK]

On Nov 27, 2:42 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 22:28:58 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
>

> <danny...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:43:43 -0800, Oren wrote:
>
> >> You're the Accountant, right?
>
> >How did you know?
>
> You can't hide...
>
> I'll bet you are the same guy cutting trees and fixing Jandy valves,
> right? And you live in California.

Oren-


I have a strong suspicion that Danny D. is "arkland"...
the fool who turned a 50+ year old oak into a pile of logs to large to
split just to satisfy his desire to "improve the view".

Now he is attempting to "repair" a faulty torsion spring installation
but is afraid (?) to remove some drywall to really see what's going
on.
He thinks added angle iron or a steel sheet will do something to
help. Because he is view obsessed (ugly, ugly, ugly comment) be
prefers to add material rather than remove it, do the job right &
replace / repair the finish.

Thank goodness he's an accountant & not a contractor, engineer or
surgeon.

But....OTOH he did work through that backflow preventer restoration
(albeit, slowly, painfully & ineptly).

He definitely gets some points for persistence but I'm not sure he's
smart enough to learn.
Stupid is really hard to fix.

OP (Danny D or arkland?)

Wise up....start listening to the guys in AHR who are generous enough
to give you the benefit of their knowledge & experience.
After your oak tree performance followed by this garage door
thing...I'm convinced you're probably not worth the time.

cheers
Bob

[DD_BobK]

Simple.... your true personality shines through.
Stupidity of your caliber is nearly impossible to mask.

Why not drop the attempt at anonymity, wise up & follow the sage
advice you're being given?

cheers
Bob

ps how's the pile of oak doing?

[DD_BobK]

On Nov 27, 6:41 pm, Oren <O...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 02:29:43 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
>

Hey Danny..... hear the sound of a competent guy who's tried to help
you getting frustrated & getting ready to give up on you?
The rest there or getting close. You're wasting people's time.

Dan Musick at DDM Garage doors is going from what you told him & his
general experience.... he knows WAY less about your specific
installation than the readers of this thread.


Do us all a huge favor ....quit it with the name changes, your bad
behavior is affecting all the other novices that pass through.

[dpb]

Hell if I know; don't know the man.

Angle would be fine as a cross member to mount to but you've still got
to find something to mount them to and get access to whatever it is that
is solid to be able to do so.

Neither of which you can do w/o being able to see what you got where.

Certainly just attaching them to the sheetrock or some other flimsy
blocking internally won't make any difference for more than a short time
at best, anyway.

--

[Oren]

<crickets>

Danny, have you gone underground?

[dpb]

On 11/29/2012 2:02 PM, Oren wrote:
> <crickets>
>
> Danny, have you gone underground?

...

He's inside the wall and can't get out... :)

--

[Oren]

...or we are getting the "silent treatment" :-\

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

> Angle would be fine as a cross member to mount to but you've still got
> to find something to mount them to and get access to whatever it is that
> is solid to be able to do so.
>
> Neither of which you can do w/o being able to see what you got where.
>
> Certainly just attaching them to the sheetrock or some other flimsy
> blocking internally won't make any difference for more than a short time
> at best, anyway.

FINAL UPDATE (as a good net citizen).

I noticed you guys were unhappy so I simply stopped asking questions
and just finished the job by immobilizing the bearing end plates and
relocating & then securing the spring anchor plate.

I had to take down the tracks to get enough room to work and
leveled them and bolted them back together when I was done.

It turns out the other garage door has the exact same construction
as there is absolutely no wood above the doorway that is substantial.

There is no doubt of this now. It's clearly a steel-supported
structure - where the wood is only bolted to the steel for the
overhead storage area and nowhere else.

Only if you're interested, here are the final results.

1. Final view (ugly, Rube Goldberged, but relatively functional):
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529843/img/11529843.jpg
2. Closeup of the right bearing end plate support:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529845/img/11529845.jpg
3. Closeup of the spring anchor plate new bearing from Dan:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529846/img/11529846.jpg
4. Closeup of the spring anchor plate from below:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529850/img/11529850.jpg
5. Closeup of the left bearing end plate support (for two doors):
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529851/img/11529851.jpg
6. A view of the newly relocated and reinstalled spring:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529848/img/11529848.jpg
7. Looking up at the right bearing end plate new support:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529847/img/11529847.jpg
8. Then spring anchor plate still bends - not much can be done:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529844/img/11529844.jpg

No need to respond. I just want to close the loop as a courtesy
to all that helped, and, also in case someone with similar
problems wishes to learn the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Thanks for your help. I'm not sure why anonymity gets folks
so angry - but - I've been on the net for decades, and have
learned looooong ago not to sling mud. I thank you all for
your advice - and I hope you realize I was responsive (until
people got nasty) - and that I answered all your queries for
more information - and I followed all the advice EXCEPT the
ripping out of the walls.

In the end, it's clear as night and day the garage is NOT a
wood-framed structure - and that the original garage door
installers had the same problem that I did and they simply
left the top foot of EVERY door unbolted.

I've rectified that. It's not pretty. It's not even fully
functional - but it is MUCH BETTER than it was before!

For that, I thank you all!

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

> Angle would be fine as a cross member to mount to but you've still got
> to find something to mount them to and get access to whatever it is that
> is solid to be able to do so.
>
> Neither of which you can do w/o being able to see what you got where.
>
> Certainly just attaching them to the sheetrock or some other flimsy
> blocking internally won't make any difference for more than a short time
> at best, anyway.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

> Angle would be fine as a cross member to mount to but you've still got
> to find something to mount them to and get access to whatever it is that
> is solid to be able to do so.
>
> Neither of which you can do w/o being able to see what you got where.
>
> Certainly just attaching them to the sheetrock or some other flimsy
> blocking internally won't make any difference for more than a short time
> at best, anyway.

[Danny D.]

Ooops. Sorry for the repost. The post didn't go through so I hit the
resend, but, apparently it 'did' go through. Please ignore the repost.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

> Angle would be fine as a cross member to mount to but you've still got
> to find something to mount them to and get access to whatever it is that
> is solid to be able to do so.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

> Angle would be fine as a cross member to mount to but you've still got
> to find something to mount them to and get access to whatever it is that
> is solid to be able to do so.

[Danny D.]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:47:24 -0600, dpb wrote:

> Angle would be fine as a cross member to mount to but you've still got
> to find something to mount them to and get access to whatever it is that
> is solid to be able to do so.

[Danny D.]

Yikes. Sorry about all the posts.
I had just recently added Tor, Privoxy, Vidalia, and Polipo
and it seems to be affecting the NNTP news. Since I haven't
posted in a while, I hadn't noticed the nntp user agent hasn't
properly been torified.

Sorry about the duplictes. Please ignore.

[DanG]

On 11/26/2012 10:04 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> My garage door torsion spring relocation is NOT going well.
>
> First, I tried to relocate the spring anchor plate 18" to
> the left where I 'thought' there was wood - but that turned
> out to be a solid steel beam!
>
> Then, I moved it 12" to the right, where I 'thought' there
> was a cripple stud - but - it was just a flimsy piece of wood:
>
> Here is a picture of the relocation:
> http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499510/img/11499510.jpg
>
> Here is a closeup of that relocation:
> http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499496/img/11499496.jpg
>
> Then, I started work on the right end bearing plate.
>
> Amazingly, there isn't any wood ANYWHERE near it.
>
> What I need is a thick (3 or 4 inch wide) steel plate in the
> shape of a big "T" - but I could find nothing like it at
> Home Depot.
> http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499495/img/11499495.jpg
>
> QUESTION:
> Q: Where can I find sheet metal in the shape of a big "T"?
>
> Note: I need a "T" roughly about a foot long by a foot tall
> by about 2 inches wide.
>

Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that is wide enough for the thing(s) you
want to attach. Cut it full height of the wall face so you can fasten
it to the double plate at the ceiling and the 2x that is pinned to the
bottom of the I beam.

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

[jloomis]

I read through and saw many pictures.
I was not able to give a good answer other than
making sure the center bearing and end plates do not move.
They do need to be fastened to solid blocking with good anchoring lags.
I always drill a size of the shank and let the threads eat into the wood.
I did a test and found that a lag just screwed into wood could pull out
easier than
if it was pre-drilled with a shank size bit that allowed thread bite.
In some cases I have spanned over "un-blocked" areas with flat sheet metal
to "catch "
solid blocking. Then I attach the bracket to the sheet metal.
Also the long shaft of garage doors is somewhat flexible.
It will move up and down regardless of the tightness of the anchoring
plates.
Undoing and redoing those springs is tough. Counting the right turns and
going in the correct direction
for winding is critical too.
On some doors you have a left and right wind.
Also lubrication of wheels and bearings makes a garage door last longer and
run smoother.
john


"Danny D." wrote in message news:k9bvqu$dt4$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[PeterD]

On 12/1/2012 12:11 PM, jloomis wrote:
> I did a test and found that a lag just screwed into wood could pull out
> easier than
> if it was pre-drilled with a shank size bit that allowed thread bite.

This little fact has been proven by others as well... Always best to
pre-drill the proper sized hole!

--
I'm never going to grow up.

[Danny D.]

On Sat, 01 Dec 2012 08:18:34 -0600, DanG wrote:

> Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood that is wide enough for the thing(s) you
> want to attach. Cut it full height of the wall face so you can fasten
> it to the double plate at the ceiling and the 2x that is pinned to the
> bottom of the I beam.

Effectively, that's what I did since there were absolutely no
substantial studs anywhere near the garage door track upper ends.

Only I used a metal plate instead of the plywood.

The hardest part was measuring accurately because the ceiling sloped
and the bearing end plate flag supports had been previously bent inward.

[DD_BobK]

Dear DADD-

How think was your "metal plate"?

Puzzler:

If it was steel & 1/4" or thinner... it's NOT the same as 3/4"
plywood. :(

Stick to the 10-key and stay away from the power tools.

[Danny D.]

On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:16:37 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:
> How thin was your "metal plate"?

> If it was steel & 1/4" or thinner... it's NOT the same as 3/4" plywood.

Agreed that the metal plate is (much) thinner than the plywood.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11639622/img/11639622.jpg

But there was no room for 3/4" plywood under the flags at the top of the
vertical tracks either.

The good news is that the steel plate, now bolted with four 5/8" nuts at
the top and secured with screws at the bottom appears to be working just
fine.

This is a summary of the repair:
1. The torsion spring was upgraded from 0.243" to 0.250" wire gauge.
2. The newer longer spring was relocated to the right by a foot.
3. The spring anchor plate was securely bolted to the angle iron.
4. The angle iron could only be lag screwed at the very top & bottom!
5. A steel bearing was added to the spring anchor plate.
6. The left track flag was bolted to the overhead storage area supports.
7. The right track flag was securely bolted to a steel plate bolted by
four 5/8" steel studs at the top and wood screws at the bottom.
8. Everything but the tracks were lubricated, including hinges, rollers,
the GDO chain, and the non-galvanized torsion spring.

[Oren]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 20:38:40 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
<dan...@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:16:37 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:
>> How thin was your "metal plate"?
>> If it was steel & 1/4" or thinner... it's NOT the same as 3/4" plywood.
>
>Agreed that the metal plate is (much) thinner than the plywood.
> http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11639622/img/11639622.jpg
>
>But there was no room for 3/4" plywood under the flags at the top of the
>vertical tracks either.

I wonder if cutting out the drywall would have given you the space
needed? (GRIN)

[DD_BobK]

DADD-

You never offered the thickness of the "metal plate".

From my examination your photos....there are no angle iron & no metal
plates involved in your "repair".

If its less than ~1/8" it ain't "angle iron"..... it's merely sheet
metal angle.... notice how easily it bends?

[DD_BobK]

DADD-

How thin was it?

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 14:10:35 -0800, Oren wrote:

> I wonder if cutting out the drywall would have given you the space
> needed? (GRIN)

Probably! :)

I had two basic choices:
- Rip it up, or,
- Cover it up.

I opted for the simplest solution - which I realize belatedly, many here
fault me for.

At least, when Dan Musick looked at the pictures, he admitted it was a
difficult situation and that my solution (which followed his advice)
will last longer than I will.

What more can we hope for than that! :)

[Danny D.]

On Fri, 07 Dec 2012 17:23:31 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:

> If its less than ~1/8" it ain't "angle iron"..... it's merely sheet
> metal angle.... notice how easily it bends?

OK. Agreed. The (thin) sheet metal was only on the right side:
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/11639622/img/11639622.jpg

The sheet metal angle was strong thick stuff that Dan Musick had sent me.
That angle iron was used to secure the left side cable drums.

Here, for example, is me asking you guys earlier how best to use it:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/11499553/img/11499553.jpg

Here is the resulting use along with three Simpson "L" plates:
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/11529851/img/11529851.jpg

You'll notice there is absolutely no substantial wood anywhere in that
picture except(of course) the overhead storage shelf itself.

The first sheet metal angle was lag bolted horizontally to that overhead
storage shelf. Everything else was tied to that.

It's hard to see, but on the right side of the picture, the second
sheet metal angle is vertically bolted to the horizontal sheet metal angle.

The three Simpson L plates were added to shore up both the vertical sheet
metal angle (which had nothing underneath it that was substantial) and to
tie in the second (much larger) garage door (which you see to the left in
that picture above).

It's ugly. But it's what Dan Musick suggested. And, it's working.
(Of course, the old door setup was working also - but this is working better.)

I'm sorry if you don't like the solution. I'm not perfectly happy with it
myself; but it's what I came up with given what I had to work with, and,
it's better than it was before - and - perhaps most importantly - it should
last my lifetime (which is as much as I can ask for it to last).

[DD_BobK]

DADD-

You've done nothing but tap dance.....

HOW THICK WAS THE "PLATE"? (ie sheet metal)

HOW THICK WAS THE "ANGLE IRON" (ie sheet metal angle)


Do us all a favor & stop the name changes....
that way people can avoid joining your future threads w/o having to re-
identify you.

>>but it's what I came up with given what I had to work with<<

No, that's what you hacked together by ignoring the great advice you
were given