OT: buying cars

[Emma D.]

I read it was OK to ask about other stuff here if I put it to OT first,
so here goes.

I recently test drove a Fiat 500L and loved it, but then I went to
looking for customer reviews, and all I'm seeing are mixed feedback.
Some love the car, others have problems from the get go.

I'm getting frustrated trying to figure out how to get a car that
doesn't have something wrong with it, and the reviews I read were on the
new Fiat500L's.

Any advice? thanks!

--
Emma

[Edmund J. Burke]

"Emma D." wrote in message news:mptmgn$ca9$1...@news.albasani.net...

Aunt Enema

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[Oren]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
wrote:

Is this a new or used car. My wife is buying a used car tomorrow. I
have never owned that brand. She really likes the car, so I used
Kelly Blue Book <http://www.kbb.com/> to help her decide. She offered
$500 less than the asking price, KBB top price, and the owner
accepted. The car is in excellent condition with all service
documentation and well cared for. A good deal I guess for a 2007.

[Edmund J. Burke]

"Oren" wrote in message news:nmn4salvn1hi6tf90...@4ax.com...

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LOL

[gfre...@aol.com]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
wrote:

The problem with Italian cars is the quality control is spotty and the
work force is entitled.
A car built on a good day is as good as anything out there but on a
bad day they build junk. Spin the wheel and take your chances ... sort
of like American cars of the 70s.

[Edmund J. Burke]

wrote in message news:65o4sahqa1h4ufc7e...@4ax.com...

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Subject: Re: OT: buying cars
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LOL x2

[NEMO]

Hilarious...I think

[Uncle Monster]

Hey gfre, I see your post in Google Groups! You were invisible before, I'm glad you solved the invisibility problem. Welcome back to this dimension.⊂(◉‿◉)つ

[8~{} Uncle Extradimensional Monster

[Oren]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 13:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
<uncl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hey gfre, I see your post in Google Groups! You were invisible before, I'm glad you solved the invisibility problem. Welcome back to this dimension.?(???)?
>
>[8~{} Uncle Extradimensional Monster

He turned off X-No-Archive....useless if his post is fully quoted,
replied too in Forte Agent.

[Ashton Crusher]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
wrote:

If you loved it that's all that matters. There is no significant
difference between the 'quality" of cars today. They are all
excellent despite the misleading "quality" ratings you get from places
like JD Power. That said, the Fiat is on the low end of the excellent
scale. Instead of it having 1.5 problems in it's first year it may
have 3, all which will be fixed under warranty for free. My
recommendation if you plan to keep the car for a substantial length of
time beyond the original warranty is to buy an extended warranty from
www.warrantydirect.com and not worry about anything anymore. Yes, you
will 'lose' about $100 a year in the cost of the warranty if nothing
much breaks but $100 a year is pretty cheap "worry insurance".

[Giovanni d'Fiati]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 5 Aug 2015 13:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Uncle

Monster <uncl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 2:17:46 PM UTC-5, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I read it was OK to ask about other stuff here if I put it to OT first,
>> >so here goes.
>> >
>> >I recently test drove a Fiat 500L and loved it, but then I went to
>> >looking for customer reviews, and all I'm seeing are mixed feedback.
>> >Some love the car, others have problems from the get go.
>> >
>> >I'm getting frustrated trying to figure out how to get a car that
>> >doesn't have something wrong with it, and the reviews I read were on the
>> >new Fiat500L's.
>> >
>> >Any advice? thanks!

Back in the 70's they said Fiat stood for Fix it again, Tony. but
that was a long time ago.

I rented a really smal Fiat in Israel fo 9 days and I had no complaints.
It had room for four people and had a little bit of space for luggage
with a door in the back. Short and easy to park.

In your case, you can buy the car you want or buy the one that's rated.
It reminds me of looking for lost property where one dropped it or where
there is light for looking. Or you can just keep looking for ratings
of your model.

When I buy a used car, I look for one in nice condition because body
work and upholstery work is expenisve, and I put aside 1000 dollars for
repairs. Well, that was a long time ago. Now it's 2000 dollarss. But
I've only had to spend the 1000 once. Most times under 200.

>>
>> The problem with Italian cars is the quality control is spotty and the
>> work force is entitled.
>> A car built on a good day is as good as anything out there but on a
>> bad day they build junk. Spin the wheel and take your chances ... sort
>> of like American cars of the 70s.
>

>Hey gfre, I see your post in Google Groups! You were invisible before, I'm glad you solved the invisibility problem. Welcome back to this dimension.?(???)?

The last 8 or more characters just show as question marks.
or =E2=8A, etc.


>
>[8~{} Uncle Extradimensional Monster

[Tony Hwang]

Regarding Fiat, friend of mine bought one last year, top model brand
new. It ran good for less than 3 months then started dying unexpectedly
any where, luckily it happened in parking lots. Just dead, no cranking,
nothing. It happened 3 times in next 3 months, they towed the car,
whatever they did, it works again for next same episode. Good thing it
was summer time. After experiencing same thing over and over, he
demanded them to buy back the car and they did without too much fuss.
Now he has Honda Fit which is darn good little car. Not interested in
small cars like Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic? even KIA Soul?

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 8/5/2015 6:41 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
> wrote:


>>
>> I'm getting frustrated trying to figure out how to get a car that
>> doesn't have something wrong with it, and the reviews I read were on the
>> new Fiat500L's.
>>
>> Any advice? thanks!
>
> If you loved it that's all that matters. There is no significant
> difference between the 'quality" of cars today. They are all
> excellent despite the misleading "quality" ratings you get from places
> like JD Power. That said, the Fiat is on the low end of the excellent
> scale. Instead of it having 1.5 problems in it's first year it may
> have 3, all which will be fixed under warranty for free.

Difficult to do a real comparison. Fiat is ranked dead last in every
reliability survey so it is not something I'd want to buy.

It is better than any car built in the 1950s though I think that is how
you arrive at your conclusion about being on the low end of excellent.
My father bought a 1959 Chevy and it had a list of over 20 items for the
dealer to correct.

I was a GM guy all my life and every one had to go back for something.
I got fed up with my last Buick and bought a Hyundai Sonata. Highest
quality car I ever had. Only one of three needed a warranty fix at
57,000 miles. I plan to buy a 2016 when available.

[Uncle Monster]

On Wednesday, August 5, 2015 at 5:47:38 PM UTC-5, Giovanni d'Fiati wrote:
> In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 5 Aug 2015 13:28:14 -0700 (PDT), Uncle

What kind of newsreader are you using? o_O

[8~{} Uncle Usenet Monster

[Uncle Monster]

Those cars are built 100 miles South of me in Montgomery, Alabamastan. ( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o)

[8~{} Uncle Car Monster

[Tony Hwang]

Also even if Fiat ran well depreciation rate is pits. Not a good car in
cold climate like in Canada. I am eyeing KIA Sportage or Hyundai Tucson
(same thing mostly) for wife's next car.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 05 Aug 2015 20:53:23 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
wrote:

I'll reserve judgement on the new Fiat for a few more years.
The fact that there are 3 year old ones on the road and looking pretty
good means they are better than they were in the seventies!!!!

[rbowman]

On 08/05/2015 01:00 PM, Emma D. wrote:
> I recently test drove a Fiat 500L and loved it, but then I went to
> looking for customer reviews, and all I'm seeing are mixed feedback.
> Some love the car, others have problems from the get go.

My experience with a Fiat Spyder wasn't too pleasant but that was back
in the '70s. Italian vehicles have always tended to be high maintenance.

I'm on my second Toyota Yaris; the first one was killed by an errant
snowplow. It's in the same subcompact class and a little cheaper than
the Fiat. Consumer Reports says you avoid them like the plague but I've
been satisfied. After the snowplow incident, I just went back to the
same dealer and got another one, didn't bother looking at the Hondas
etc. It will happily cruise at 80+ and gets in the high 30's in the
summer. Sunday I got 40 mpg with a mix of 70 mph highways and a little
30-40 mph travel on gravel roads. 10 below zero and it starts right up.
With front wheel drive/traction control it works well in snow.

I think the Fiat is a little better looking but I'm really more into
bikes than cars.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 8/5/2015 8:07 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> Regarding Fiat, friend of mine bought one last year, top model brand
> new. It ran good for less than 3 months then started dying unexpectedly
> any where, luckily it happened in parking lots. Just dead, no cranking,
> nothing. It happened 3 times in next 3 months, they towed the car,
> whatever they did, it works again for next same episode. Good thing it
> was summer time. After experiencing same thing over and over, he
> demanded them to buy back the car and they did without too much fuss.
>

My parents had that happen on a Chrysler. The
problem turned out to be a dirty connection on
a fusible link near the positive battery
terminal.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[rbowman]

On 08/05/2015 09:31 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> I'll reserve judgement on the new Fiat for a few more years.
> The fact that there are 3 year old ones on the road and looking pretty
> good means they are better than they were in the seventies!!!!

Yeah, I owned my Spyder for a couple of months. During one heated
discussion I offered to park it on the saleman's desk if we couldn't
work out something. I wound up with a '73 Mustang. I'd gotten to like
the 'Tang since it was the loaner I was driving for most of those two
months.

[rbowman]

I had one of the early Audis. You carried a set of plug wires in the
trunk. About every 15000 miles the car wouldn't start. Change the wires
and you were good to go. It wasn't a graceful degradation, it just
wouldn't start all of a sudden. My wife got the Audi out of the divorce
and I kept the Lincoln. I sometimes feel bad doing that to her but she
eventually got a few hundred bucks trading it in on a Rabbit. Audi makes
some nice looking cars and they must have gotten their act together
since they're still in business. V

[notbob]

On 2015-08-06, rbowman <bow...@erewhon.com> wrote:

> I had one of the early Audis. You carried a set of plug wires in the
> trunk. About every 15000 miles the car wouldn't start. Change the wires
> and you were good to go. It wasn't a graceful degradation, it just
> wouldn't start all of a sudden. My wife got the Audi out of the divorce
> and I kept the Lincoln. I sometimes feel bad doing that to her but she
> eventually got a few hundred bucks trading it in on a Rabbit. Audi makes
> some nice looking cars and they must have gotten their act together
> since they're still in business. V

High-end autos are jes a crappy as cars on the other end of the price
spectrum.

I usta want a BMW. That was until I saw my buddies used Beemer with
the padded dash that was cracked wide open from UV sunlight. I had
older cars w/ no such problem. Another buddy hadda Mercedes which was
the same age as my Honda Civic. My Honda did not leak oil like a BP
oil spill, even if my paint job was almost as faded and peeled as bad
as his Mercedes. I won't even go into whatta trainwreck my other
buddy's Audi is.

Now, I feel quite comfortable buying end-of-life cars. More often
than not, they have proven their worth by still being on the road. I
sold my Civic w/ 250K miles on it. The engine still purred. I'm
currently looking at an '81 El Camino in mint condition. V6 engine w/
a factory stock 3 spd on the floor.

nb

[Edmund J. Burke]

"NEMO" wrote in message news:iep4sapklqkaj37o7...@4ax.com...

The problem is that you don't...........think.

[NEMO]

No, rather the problem is that you find headers funny!

[Tony Hwang]

I had similar experience with Sunbeam Rapier. Had to work on it every
week end to make it road worthy. I passed it onto my friend who put in
a Ford Pinto engine. I still shudder when I think about Lucas parts.
After driving company car almost 40 years, I settled on Acura and Subaru
for family. So far so good. No major issues.

[Stormin Mormon]

On 8/6/2015 10:16 AM, rbowman wrote:
>> My parents had that happen on a Chrysler. The
>> problem turned out to be a dirty connection on
>> a fusible link near the positive battery
>> terminal.
>
> I had one of the early Audis. You carried a set of plug wires in the
> trunk. About every 15000 miles the car wouldn't start. Change the wires
> and you were good to go. It wasn't a graceful degradation, it just

> wouldn't start all of a sudden. V
>
>

Chrysler porcelean cased ballast resistors, same way.
Just dead one day, no warning.

[Emma D.]

The car I drove was a brand new one. I couldn't make up my mind if it
was worth pursuing even a used one based on the mixed reviews I've been
reading.

--
Emma

[Emma D.]

not good. I want it to work, so it's not looking like I should pursue
that particular car model.

--
Emma

[Emma D.]

Just about everyone I talk to recommends buying an extended warranty, so
if/when I do buy one I'll probably do that, too.

--
Emma

[Emma D.]

I do like the KIA Soul, too, so maybe I should investigate one of those
more. Test drove one about a year ago, and kind of liked it, but didn't
want a black interior. Couldn't find any with a lighter interior, either.

--
Emma

[Oren]

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 17:25:09 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
wrote:

>Just about everyone I talk to recommends buying an extended warranty, so
>if/when I do buy one I'll probably do that, too.

Many folks here are not in favor of extended warranties. People buy
them without even reading them. Often, or possibly, what fails is not
even covered by the warranty. A common comment here is to put money
away in savings and use it when needed for a repair. I agree with that
notion. I've had extended warranties offered at check-out in box
stores. When I asked them to let me read the document, the clerk
starts to shudder, can't give details, etc. I always decline. It is a
high-pressure sell and you can most often loose in the end.

[Oren]

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 17:22:41 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
wrote:

>The car I drove was a brand new one. I couldn't make up my mind if it
>was worth pursuing even a used one based on the mixed reviews I've been
>reading.

Fiat-Chrysler has ~ 14 million recalls going on -- check into that.

<http://www.fiat500owners.com/forum/51-fiat-500l/88649-tsb-recall-related-information-fiat-500l-2-print.html>

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 8/6/2015 6:25 PM, Emma D. wrote:

>>My
>> recommendation if you plan to keep the car for a substantial length of
>> time beyond the original warranty is to buy an extended warranty from
>> www.warrantydirect.com and not worry about anything anymore. Yes, you
>> will 'lose' about $100 a year in the cost of the warranty if nothing
>> much breaks but $100 a year is pretty cheap "worry insurance".
>>
>
> Just about everyone I talk to recommends buying an extended warranty, so
> if/when I do buy one I'll probably do that, too.
>

Check the cost and read the fine print. Many are very over priced and
cover little. Personally, I don't buy them. Put the money in the bank
and long term. come out way ahead.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The biggest problem with most cars today in not having properly
trained mechanics to work on them.
Fiats are not Dodge Rams.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 12:16:07 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
wrote:

With British cars you need to open the hood and fondle their nuts
every day or two to keep them happy.

[rbowman]

On 08/06/2015 12:16 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> I had similar experience with Sunbeam Rapier. Had to work on it every
> week end to make it road worthy. I passed it onto my friend who put in
> a Ford Pinto engine. I still shudder when I think about Lucas parts.

Lucas, Prince of Darkness. I know him well, having had an Austin-Healey
at one point.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 16:09:18 -0700, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>
>Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2015 16:09:18 -0700
If you plan on keeping a new car after the warranty is over and are
not mechanically inclined a warranty (a GOOD one) can save your bacon
-often the dealer will allow you to buy the warranty within the first
year or two - so you can get a feel for the reliability/build quality
of the car.
In that case, rather than buying a warranty for a poor car, I'd be
more likely to sell it.

With used cars, sometimes a "good" warranty can be worth while - but a
lot of crappy used car dealers will sell you a car requiring repairs -
and a warranty - so they don't have to pay to repair the car. RUN the
other way.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

At least they issue the recalls - unlike GM. Yes - they needed their
knuckles rapped too - but.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:58:49 -0600, rbowman <bow...@erewhon.com>
wrote:

In our family we've had a Bedford doormobile, a Vauxhaul Victor
Special, a Viva HA, a Viva HC (Firenza) 2300SL, a Rover 2000TC, a Mark
1 Mini, and a Sunbeam Arrow. I also babysat and drove a Sunbeam Alpine
Mk2, helped restore a '53 MGTD, and currently helping restore a
british Isetta .
I was also reponsible for looking after an old Rover 3500 and a Mini
Moke for aver a year, and serviced a Mk2 E type Jag for a good
customer for about 8 years.

The Mini was my first car. It was a 1961, and had intermittent wipers
LONG before they became standard or even optional equipment on
American iron. Weren't designed that way - they just happened!!

[Emma D.]

I'm not really a savvy car buyer, so thanks for the heads-up.
Still haven't really made up my mind on whether or not to get another
car or not. Thinking about it, though.
--
Emma

[Emma D.]

All I can say is wow.

--
Emma

[Emma D.]

ohhh, another car I've been thinking about if a Mini Cooper. I guess I
kind of like the idea of the smaller car, but I haven't driven one, yet.
I can't decide which model if I can even get around to test driving one.

--
Emma

[Uncle Monster]

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 1:41:29 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> On 8/6/2015 10:16 AM, rbowman wrote:
> >> My parents had that happen on a Chrysler. The
> >> problem turned out to be a dirty connection on
> >> a fusible link near the positive battery
> >> terminal.
> >
> > I had one of the early Audis. You carried a set of plug wires in the
> > trunk. About every 15000 miles the car wouldn't start. Change the wires
> > and you were good to go. It wasn't a graceful degradation, it just
> > wouldn't start all of a sudden. V
> >
>
> Chrysler porcelean cased ballast resistors, same way.
> Just dead one day, no warning.
>
> --
> .

The early resistors had an open back which allowed moisture to corrode the resistor element. The new improved resistor had the cavity sealed with a ceramic paste. I never had one of the sealed resistors fail but I kept one in the glove box anyway so I could rescue other Mopar drivers. (0_0)

[8~{} Uncle Mopar Monster

[rbowman]

On 08/06/2015 09:21 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> currently helping restore a
> british Isetta .

Learn something every day -- I always thought BMW was the ones who
picked up the Isetta from Italy. I guess in the land of the Morgan
tricycle anything to cheat the taxman was good.


I used to get a kick out of watching the Minis at the SCCA races at
Limerock. The big Vettes could run but they couldn't hide for long.

[Ron]

On 8/5/2015 10:53 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 8/5/2015 6:41 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

>>> On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm getting frustrated trying to figure out how to get a car that
>>>> doesn't have something wrong with it, and the reviews I read were on
>>>> the
>>>> new Fiat500L's.
>>>>
>>>> Any advice? thanks!
>>>

>>> If you loved it that's all that matters. There is no significant
>>> difference between the 'quality" of cars today. They are all
>>> excellent despite the misleading "quality" ratings you get from places
>>> like JD Power. That said, the Fiat is on the low end of the excellent
>>> scale. Instead of it having 1.5 problems in it's first year it may
>>> have 3, all which will be fixed under warranty for free.
>>

>> Difficult to do a real comparison. Fiat is ranked dead last in every
>> reliability survey so it is not something I'd want to buy.
>>
>> It is better than any car built in the 1950s though I think that is how
>> you arrive at your conclusion about being on the low end of excellent.
>> My father bought a 1959 Chevy and it had a list of over 20 items for the
>> dealer to correct.
>>
>> I was a GM guy all my life and every one had to go back for something. I
>> got fed up with my last Buick and bought a Hyundai Sonata. Highest
>> quality car I ever had. Only one of three needed a warranty fix at
>> 57,000 miles. I plan to buy a 2016 when available.
>>
> Also even if Fiat ran well depreciation rate is pits. Not a good car in
> cold climate like in Canada. I am eyeing KIA Sportage or Hyundai Tucson
> (same thing mostly) for wife's next car.

I don't know about cold climates because I live in FL...but you can't
beat the Hyundai and Kia warranties.

[Ron]

On 8/6/2015 6:27 PM, Emma D. wrote:
>>
>
> I do like the KIA Soul, too, so maybe I should investigate one of those
> more. Test drove one about a year ago, and kind of liked it, but didn't
> want a black interior. Couldn't find any with a lighter interior, either.

I have 2 family members and a best friend that have Kia Souls. They are
great cars, and you can't beat their warranty. Next time you are out and
about, count the Kia Souls that you see. me and my g/f have a game we
play when we go somewhere counting Souls. They are EVERYWHERE!

On a 6 mile round trip to our favorite place to eat ever Friday, we
count at least 10 of them. I think our record is 15. And that doesn't
include the 4 that are parked in our neighborhood.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 22:37:36 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>

What do you drive now, and what is wrong with it??
Replacing a good car seldom makes financial sense.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

It wasn't moisture and corrosion - it was vibration and thermal
stress. I always kept the spare screwed to the firewall next to the
one in service so all I needed to do was move the wires.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 23:20:02 -0600, rbowman <bow...@erewhon.com>
wrote:

You think the mini (austin seven) was a vette killer, you should have
seen the Lotus Sevens mop the track with them!!

[Edmund J. Burke]

"NEMO" wrote in message news:2547sad35qfrkssn9...@4ax.com...

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 09:26:00 -0700, "Colon Edmud Jackass Burchese of
Ladyboise, Idaho" <ejburke@us_army.com> wrote:

>"NEMO" wrote in message news:iep4sapklqkaj37o7...@4ax.com...
>
>On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 12:16:50 -0700, "Colon Edmud Jackass Burchese of
>Ladyboise, Idahoe" <ejburke@us_army.com> wrote:
>
>>"Oren" wrote in message
>>news:nmn4salvn1hi6tf90...@4ax.com...
>>
>>Path: news.albasani.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
>>From: "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
>>Newsgroups: alt.home.repair
>>Subject: OT: buying cars
>>Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500
>>Organization: albasani.net
>>Lines: 15
>>Message-ID: <mptmgn$ca9$1...@news.albasani.net>
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>X-Trace: news.albasani.net
>>LpsnJNCNhFw3xvOtDlB3Qt8Cmv8e9HRUgINnGvucoynMQxlS2yjdPa8Kxaur7IDhbkFuyw16rwELFE8Vl5h78iLR/NH0Y+hSLipLM/JZkPiVOPKajxxAE977pEQ1TeXd
>>NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 19:00:39 +0000 (UTC)
>>Injection-Info: news.albasani.net;
>>logging-data="6v9K2qmLIg45SLUgpYs5NVhiV1ofPq8kxyPamYlmlJDO5nvgYavfS8hcJvGU7RpVtAZt0S9ZoZVtiymb+xfDZ90lk2PaMQo9kVJ8j5ugP9mGqYQmhPhlgX16d5YcC+0Z";
>>mail-complaints-to="ab...@albasani.net"
>>User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101
>>Thunderbird/38.1.0
>>X-Mozilla-News-Host: news://reader.albasani.net:119
>>Cancel-Lock: sha1:AZjEGlMC6fudoMUbnxBETzedzQA=
>>Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org alt.home.repair:425989
>>
>>LOL
>
>Hilarious...I think
>
>
>The problem is that you don't...........think.

No, rather the problem is that you find headers funny!


Really? I like the "headers" you give, Miss Recktum, you cocksucker you!
LOL

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 12:56 AM, Ron wrote:
> I have 2 family members and a best friend that have Kia Souls. They are
> great cars, and you can't beat their warranty. Next time you are out and
> about, count the Kia Souls that you see. me and my g/f have a game we
> play when we go somewhere counting Souls. They are EVERYWHERE!
>
> On a 6 mile round trip to our favorite place to eat ever Friday, we
> count at least 10 of them. I think our record is 15. And that doesn't
> include the 4 that are parked in our neighborhood.

You wouldn't run out of fingers counting them around here. Subarus are
the noticeable ones, preferably with the optional black lab with red
scarf installed. It's the AWD that sells them.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 06:21 AM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> You think the mini (austin seven) was a vette killer, you should have
> seen the Lotus Sevens mop the track with them!!

That's why I was at Lime Rock -- pit crew for a guy running a Seven S2
:) If I ever get to the point where I can't keep a bike upright there
may be a Caterham in my future rather than messing around with a trike
like the Can-Am Spyder. Luckily this state isn't very fussy about what
you put on the road as long as you buy the tags.

[NEMO]

On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 06:34:19 -0700, "Colon Edmud Jackass Burchese of

No, YOU do!

>Really? I like the "headers" you give, Miss Recktum, you cocksucker you!
>LOL

How do you like getting greeked by Griks, Coloon? LOLOK

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 07:50:48 -0600, rbowman <bow...@erewhon.com>
wrote:

A good friend of mine has built/rebuilt the majority of the sevens
running vintage racing in the eastern half of North America, and quite
a few that are driven on the road as well. He has a chassis standing
in the hangar that I'd love to make into a car if it wasn't so
terribly hard to licence and insure one here in Ontario

[Doug Miller]

"Emma D." <em...@invalid.net> wrote in news:mptmgn$ca9$1...@news.albasani.net:

> I read it was OK to ask about other stuff here if I put it to OT first,
> so here goes.
>
> I recently test drove a Fiat 500L and loved it, but then I went to
> looking for customer reviews, and all I'm seeing are mixed feedback.
> Some love the car, others have problems from the get go.
>

> I'm getting frustrated trying to figure out how to get a car that
> doesn't have something wrong with it, and the reviews I read were on the
> new Fiat500L's.
>
> Any advice? thanks!
>

Former Fiat owner writing here. Emphasis on "former".

FIAT stands for Fix It Again, Tony.
Fix It Again Today.
Fix It Again Tomorrow.
Take your pick.

Years ago, there was a skit on SNL with two guys arguing about which one was dumber --
each maintaining that he himself was dumber than the other guy. "Oh yeah? Well, I'm so
dumb I did X." -- "Oh, yeah? Well, I did Y!" -- goes on for a while. Then one says "I bought a
FIAT". End of argument.

Bottom line is, there is a *reason* for all these jokes.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 8/6/2015 11:51 PM, Emma D. wrote:

>
> ohhh, another car I've been thinking about if a Mini Cooper. I guess I
> kind of like the idea of the smaller car, but I haven't driven one, yet.
> I can't decide which model if I can even get around to test driving one.
>

Mini is rated about 1 notch above the Fiat. Cute car, but expensive.
Never drove one so I don't know if they are worth the money. Not hard to
hit $28k to $30k for the bas model with some decent accessories.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 8/7/2015 8:18 AM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Replacing a good car seldom makes financial sense.
>

Replacing a bad car seldom makes financial sense. Most times you walk
out of the dealer thinking you got a good deal because you have a jar of
lubricant in your hand.

[Tekkie®]

Emma D. posted for all of us...


>
> On 8/5/2015 5:41 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

> > On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I read it was OK to ask about other stuff here if I put it to OT first,
> >> so here goes.
> >>
> >> I recently test drove a Fiat 500L and loved it, but then I went to
> >> looking for customer reviews, and all I'm seeing are mixed feedback.
> >> Some love the car, others have problems from the get go.
> >>
> >> I'm getting frustrated trying to figure out how to get a car that
> >> doesn't have something wrong with it, and the reviews I read were on the
> >> new Fiat500L's.
> >>
> >> Any advice? thanks!
> >

> > If you loved it that's all that matters. There is no significant
> > difference between the 'quality" of cars today. They are all
> > excellent despite the misleading "quality" ratings you get from places
> > like JD Power. That said, the Fiat is on the low end of the excellent
> > scale. Instead of it having 1.5 problems in it's first year it may

> > have 3, all which will be fixed under warranty for free. My

> > recommendation if you plan to keep the car for a substantial length of
> > time beyond the original warranty is to buy an extended warranty from
> > www.warrantydirect.com and not worry about anything anymore. Yes, you
> > will 'lose' about $100 a year in the cost of the warranty if nothing
> > much breaks but $100 a year is pretty cheap "worry insurance".
> >
>

> Just about everyone I talk to recommends buying an extended warranty, so
> if/when I do buy one I'll probably do that, too.

I do only on cars. There are too many systems to go wrong with labor to
diagnose and repair. I can't work on them any more... You can shop
warranties but I get the Toyota one because there is no question about
reimbursement (Toyota vehicles) I have won on every one I purchased. Also
they can be canceled in case you trade with a small return to you. No
comments on Toyota reliability and no horror stories (yet) - if asked.

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

[Tekkie®]

Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us...

Hey, I've been robbed! They never gave me a jar of it. I knew it was being
applied though. I always shop around because I take it as fun. I don't say a
word. When the sales person stops talking I might 1. Sit there stone faced
and wait for them to blather on. 2. Ask about some arcane option or package
(like why if I want leather do they put in Nav - I ain't paying for Nav).
3. Ask them about every option in the brochure. 4. They will ask what color
you want. If the have one in stock then switch colors or packages. If they
don't then ask if they can search for and trade with another dealer and get
back to you with a price to your specs. 5. Ask about financing and tell them
you belong to Poor Boy Credit Union and their rate is lower (look it up
before going). They will match it. 6. The sales manager trick is exactly
that.

I'm sure others can add tips. Information is your friend.

[Tekkie®]

rbowman posted for all of us...

Yup, and their reliability. The give a % of the price to charities. I miss
my black labs, Tink, Abie and Oscar. :(

[Oren]

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 22:37:36 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>

You can dig around here. <http://www.safercar.gov/>

I'm a long time Ford owner for multiple decades. As is my friend. He
had and gave his used Ford Fusion to his girlfriend.

I do like Toyota, Bought my wife one (2006 new). Yesterday she bought
a used 2007 SABB SUV XR9, complete records, excellent condition - no
recalls issued. Never had a SAAB. So I can't comment other that it is
"her purchase". And she is tickled.

I get the well cared for Toyota:) I'll trade my old Eddie Bauer Ford
Bronco for guns & ammo.

[Tekkie®]

cl...@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...


> With British cars you need to open the hood and fondle their nuts
> every day or two to keep them happy.

And suspect everything marked Lucas... Are they still in business-maybe
making beer warmers...

[Tekkie®]

cl...@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...


>

You know a new season of Wheeler Dealers is coming up?

[notbob]

On 2015-08-07, Tekkie® <Tek...@comcast.net> wrote:

> And suspect everything marked Lucas... Are they still in business-maybe
> making beer warmers...

Tekkie? I think not.

Have you ever owned a British sports car or motorcycle. I have. Lots
of 'em. Smith and Lucas were steady performers, in my experience.
Even Wikipedia sez "this title is undeserved"[1].

[1] Prince of Darkness

nb

[Oren]

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 13:24:07 -0700, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>I do like Toyota, Bought my wife one (2006 new)

Meant to say 1996 -- my bad.
--
"Dumb is local...As soon as you go 15 miles away from your dumbness, you see how dumb you are." -- Sherrod Small

[Ashton Crusher]

On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 21:02:04 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>On 8/5/2015 6:41 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:

>> On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 14:00:42 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
>> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> I'm getting frustrated trying to figure out how to get a car that
>>> doesn't have something wrong with it, and the reviews I read were on the
>>> new Fiat500L's.
>>>
>>> Any advice? thanks!
>>
>> If you loved it that's all that matters. There is no significant
>> difference between the 'quality" of cars today. They are all
>> excellent despite the misleading "quality" ratings you get from places
>> like JD Power. That said, the Fiat is on the low end of the excellent
>> scale. Instead of it having 1.5 problems in it's first year it may
>> have 3, all which will be fixed under warranty for free.
>

>Difficult to do a real comparison. Fiat is ranked dead last in every
>reliability survey so it is not something I'd want to buy.
>
>It is better than any car built in the 1950s though I think that is how

>you arrive at your conclusion about being on the low end of excellent.

I don't recall the exact numbers but the spread of the Jd powers
"quality" ratings is something like 70 to 230. Sounds like a big
spread. But it's per hundred cars. So for the ONE car YOU will buy
the difference in "quality" between them is the difference of having
perhaps only 0.7 problems in the first year versus having maybe 2.3
problems in the first year. And the "problems" being compared could
be anything from the engine blew up to "I don't like the way the radio
knob feels and the dealer can't fix it". The JD power numbers are
nearly worthless for retail buyers. If, OTOH, lots of Fiat owners are
actually finding that the engines are blowing up, that's a different
story.

>My father bought a 1959 Chevy and it had a list of over 20 items for the
>dealer to correct.

I wouldn't doubt it. Between 1972 and up till a few years ago I drove
a lot of gvt fleet cars. There was a major change right around the
late 70s where things went from me having a list of things for the
shop to fix every time I sent a car in for it's scheduled service to
the cars almost never needing anything fixed. It was pretty much
across teh board, didn't much matter what make they were buying, GM,
MoPar, AMC, Ford. By 1980 the old "here's a list of things to have
the shop fix" was a thing of the past. And most of the stuff that did
go wrong was really pretty minor, a lock motor would go bad or
something like that OR rarely a major issue fixed for free like
transmissions in Dodge Diesel 4x4s that couldn't take the torque of
the engine. And that kind of stuff isn't going to show up in the JD
Powers numbers that get all the airplay.

I'd say look at consumers reports info but it's often crap too but at
least it tracks things for real life cars for several years.
Unfortunately it suffers the same deficiency, now that everythihg is
really quite good stuff that's on the lower end of "quite good" winds
up with a black dot as if it's junk. Some of the cars CU rates are
good are crap to actually live with and drive whereas some of the
"bad" ones are quite nice to live with and drive.

I guess there's no perfect system.

[Ashton Crusher]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 21:57:19 -0400, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 12:16:07 -0600, Tony Hwang <drag...@shaw.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>rbowman wrote:
>>> On 08/05/2015 09:31 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>>> I'll reserve judgement on the new Fiat for a few more years.
>>>> The fact that there are 3 year old ones on the road and looking pretty
>>>> good means they are better than they were in the seventies!!!!
>>>
>>> Yeah, I owned my Spyder for a couple of months. During one heated
>>> discussion I offered to park it on the saleman's desk if we couldn't
>>> work out something. I wound up with a '73 Mustang. I'd gotten to like
>>> the 'Tang since it was the loaner I was driving for most of those two
>>> months.

>>>
>>>
>>I had similar experience with Sunbeam Rapier. Had to work on it every
>>week end to make it road worthy. I passed it onto my friend who put in
>>a Ford Pinto engine. I still shudder when I think about Lucas parts.

>>After driving company car almost 40 years, I settled on Acura and Subaru
>>for family. So far so good. No major issues.

> With British cars you need to open the hood and fondle their nuts
>every day or two to keep them happy.

Or do you mean teh bonnet?

[Ashton Crusher]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 16:09:18 -0700, Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 17:25:09 -0500, "Emma D." <em...@invalid.net>
>wrote:
>

>>Just about everyone I talk to recommends buying an extended warranty, so
>>if/when I do buy one I'll probably do that, too.
>
>Many folks here are not in favor of extended warranties. People buy
>them without even reading them. Often, or possibly, what fails is not
>even covered by the warranty. A common comment here is to put money
>away in savings and use it when needed for a repair. I agree with that
>notion. I've had extended warranties offered at check-out in box
>stores. When I asked them to let me read the document, the clerk
>starts to shudder, can't give details, etc. I always decline. It is a
>high-pressure sell and you can most often loose in the end.

Most appliance warranties are along the lines of ...
$200 appliance and they want $50 for a two year warranty, 25% of the
purchase price for a lousy 2, maybe 3 years.

For a car it's ....
$20000 car and they want $1500 for a 7 year warranty, 7.5% of the
purchase price and for two to three times as long an extended warranty
period.

that's why the only extended warranties I buy are on new cars. I've
had 4 cars with extended warranties and on some I've recovered MORE in
repair bills they paid than the warranty costs. On most I've
recovered between 50 to 80% of what the warranty cost. I've got one
that's got another 50,000 miles and 3.5 years to run. It cost me
$1500 and it's already paid for over $1000 in repairs. ..

I can't argue with the notion that I'd be saving money by not buying
them... but I think the freedom from worry about the repairs and the
cost is worth the small monthly cost, esp if something were to break
on a trip out of town. Plus, without the warranty I'd wind up fixing
the stuff myself, this way I don't need to for the newer cars which
leaves me time to fix the stuff myself on the old cars I have.

Here's another perspective.... If you could negotiate away the normal
factory warranty, lets say it's 3 years, 36,000 miles, how much would
you want the dealer to knock off the price of the car in exchange for
"no warranty/as is" out the door for your new car? $1000, $2000,
$3000?

[Ashton Crusher]

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 20:45:26 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:

>On 8/6/2015 6:25 PM, Emma D. wrote:
>
>>>My
>>> recommendation if you plan to keep the car for a substantial length of
>>> time beyond the original warranty is to buy an extended warranty from
>>> www.warrantydirect.com and not worry about anything anymore. Yes, you
>>> will 'lose' about $100 a year in the cost of the warranty if nothing
>>> much breaks but $100 a year is pretty cheap "worry insurance".
>>>
>>

>> Just about everyone I talk to recommends buying an extended warranty, so
>> if/when I do buy one I'll probably do that, too.
>>
>

>Check the cost and read the fine print. Many are very over priced and
>cover little. Personally, I don't buy them. Put the money in the bank
>and long term. come out way ahead.


Another thought on the warranty issue.... ALWAYS shop around. The
dealers push warranties THEY sell, which may be backed by the auto
maker or may just be some third party warranty. In my experience the
third party warranties the dealers push are ALWAYS way more expensive
then what you can get by just buying a warranty yourself from a
reputable company AFTER you have bought the car. The last two times
I've bought from warrantydirect.com because they have had excellent
prices AND excellent service. But I very strongly considered the
Official Chrysler Extended warranty the last time because it was only
slightly more expensive and seemed to offer just a little bit better
coverage for small stuff. But definitely, shop around for warranty
prices BEFORE you buy the car so you know what it will cost from a
company you would be wiling to buy from. Then you can compare that to
what the dealers "finance guy" will be trying to shove down your
throat when you sign all the paperwork and he's trying to sell you
more floor mats, a security alarm, paint protection, a maintained
plan, and insurance on losing your keys. If you think he's offering a
good extended warranty you can tell him you'll take it if he matches
the price for the one you already have priced out. The last time I
bought a car I thought the guys head was going to explode from all the
"No, thanks, don't need that" I told him. When I refused the alarm
and he acted like I must be crazy not to be worry about the car
getting stolen. I told him "That's why I buy car insurance!" Then he
gave up.

[Ron]

Exactly 10 Kia Souls today.

Where do you live that people want AWD?

[Oren]

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 14:13:29 -0700, Ashton Crusher <de...@moore.net>
wrote:

>I can't argue with the notion that I'd be saving money by not buying
>them... but I think the freedom from worry about the repairs and the
>cost is worth the small monthly cost, esp if something were to break
>on a trip out of town.

Check out the Lincoln MKZ warranty.

My friend Bubba bought him one last year.

<http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2014/10/27/11/17/2015_lincoln_mkz-pic-7858807314636613442-640x480.jpeg<

He doesn't need an extended warranty, having already spent $55,000! I
have begged him to leave the car in my driveway.

[Diesel]

Oren <Or...@127.0.0.1>
news:v34asa9gjs8q0lgkb...@4ax.com Fri, 07 Aug 2015

20:24:07 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

> I do like Toyota, Bought my wife one (2006 new). Yesterday she
> bought a used 2007 SABB SUV XR9, complete records, excellent
> condition - no recalls issued. Never had a SAAB. So I can't
> comment other that it is "her purchase". And she is tickled.

I've done a small amount of electrical wiring on a SAAB. Someone
smashed out the center console that had the rocker switches for the
front/back windows and lockout controls. I found the cars wiring to be
a breeze to figure out by hand. I did find it's schematics, but they
weren't necessary.

I've owned Mazda (not rebranded ford), Ford, and GMC/Chevy vehicles.
I've had to work on the GM ones the most. Little things mostly, but
still.

> I get the well cared for Toyota:) I'll trade my old Eddie Bauer
> Ford Bronco for guns & ammo.

The little toyota trucks seem to run forever. I've seen the body and
frame rust away while the engine, drivetrain and rear end are still
good and ready to go.





--
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

[Frank]

I'm a Subaru owner. Moderate climate but live on a hill and like to
hunt. Been in many situations where I would have been stuck without AWD.

All Subaru's are AWD. On other brands it is an expensive option.

They maintain their value too.

[Ron]

I put 220K on an '83 Celica before selling it in the mid 90's. It was
still running great when I sold it.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

It's a blinkin' BMW for crying out loud. Of COURSE it's expensive to
maintain. - and way to pricy for what it is to start with too.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

You don't remember the pony, eh? Judging by the pony you would steer
a REAL wide berth around the Hyundai, and the Kia too.

Judging by the Vega you would stay away from Chevy/GM too. (not a bad
idea, by the way).

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Years ago you couldn't GIVE me a Ford. Today I own 2. These are #4
and #5, and I love them both.
If I could buy a Toyota for what I bought my Fords for, I'd likely
own another Toyota - but their resale value is too high, and I ONLY
buy used..
SAABs have always been a bit of an odidity - you definitely don't
want too own one if you don't have a good dealership or at least a
good SAAB mechanic around. Generally good vehicles - not cheap to
repair when repairs are required - very few aftermarket parts
available.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The American North East, The Canadian Maritimes, and Alberta and BC -
for starters.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I sold my 1981 Tercel with over 360,000 miles on it - The guy I sold
it to was still driving it at 465000. We had couriers running them
with close to 500000 when I left the dealership.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Not if you ever actually owned or worked on one.

Too bad Lucas never built Vaccums. But then again, they would likely
be the only Lucas produvt that didn't suck -----.

People say the reason Brits drink warm beer is because they use Lucas
refrigerators. This is not correct, by the way. Britts drink their
beer at room temperature. Anyone who has spent any amount of time in
Britain knows that is NOT warm!!. Perhaps because they use Lucas
central heating plants???

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 8/7/2015 5:13 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:


>
> For a car it's ....
> $20000 car and they want $1500 for a 7 year warranty, 7.5% of the
> purchase price and for two to three times as long an extended warranty
> period.
>
> that's why the only extended warranties I buy are on new cars. I've
> had 4 cars with extended warranties and on some I've recovered MORE in
> repair bills they paid than the warranty costs. On most I've
> recovered between 50 to 80% of what the warranty cost. I've got one
> that's got another 50,000 miles and 3.5 years to run. It cost me
> $1500 and it's already paid for over $1000 in repairs. ..
>
> I can't argue with the notion that I'd be saving money by not buying
> them... but I think the freedom from worry about the repairs and the
> cost is worth the small monthly cost, esp if something were to break
> on a trip out of town. Plus, without the warranty I'd wind up fixing
> the stuff myself, this way I don't need to for the newer cars which
> leaves me time to fix the stuff myself on the old cars I have.
>
> Here's another perspective.... If you could negotiate away the normal
> factory warranty, lets say it's 3 years, 36,000 miles, how much would
> you want the dealer to knock off the price of the car in exchange for
> "no warranty/as is" out the door for your new car? $1000, $2000,
> $3000?
>

Peace of mind is worth something but thr question is how much? . I just
look at past history. The last three cars I've owned over 9 years were
traded inside of the power train warranty and just a bit out of the
entire warranty. I paid $250 for one brake job. The rest was tires and
oil changes.

The 3/36 is really a crappy warranty. I have 5/100 powertrain and 5/60
for everything else.

Warranty companies are in business to make a profit. They take a little
money from a lot of people and then give some back for repairs and keep
the rest. Thank you for your contribution. It is a bit of a gamble.

[Tony Hwang]

If I ever dreamed about Lucas it'd be nightmare for sure, LOL!

[Tony Hwang]

Car like that should be leased, not purchased.

[Ron]

I owned a '75 Vega GT and never had a problem with it.

[Tony Hwang]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 17:50:02 -0400, Ron <bigel...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/7/2015 9:41 AM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On 08/07/2015 12:56 AM, Ron wrote:
>>>> I have 2 family members and a best friend that have Kia Souls. They are
>>>> great cars, and you can't beat their warranty. Next time you are out and
>>>> about, count the Kia Souls that you see. me and my g/f have a game we
>>>> play when we go somewhere counting Souls. They are EVERYWHERE!
>>>>
>>>> On a 6 mile round trip to our favorite place to eat ever Friday, we
>>>> count at least 10 of them. I think our record is 15. And that doesn't
>>>> include the 4 that are parked in our neighborhood.
>>>
>>> You wouldn't run out of fingers counting them around here. Subarus are
>>> the noticeable ones, preferably with the optional black lab with red

>>> scarf installed. It'he AWD that sells them.

>>
>> Exactly 10 Kia Souls today.
>>
>> Where do you live that people want AWD?
> The American North East, The Canadian Maritimes, and Alberta and BC -
> for starters.
>

My family always had Subaru or Acura/Honda. Wife thinks cars should all
have AWD and snow tires in winter. In my mind Acura SH-AWD, Audi
Quattro, Subaru symetrical AWD are best of bunch. Kia was making
bicycles way back and first automobile maker in Korea. Hyundai learned
ins and outs of car manufacturing from Mitsubishi until they started
producing own bearings and piston rings.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 03:50 PM, Ron wrote:
> Where do you live that people want AWD?

Montana. Part of it is winter driving. The other part is this area is
very outdoor recreation oriented and some of the popular trailheads are
at the end of 10 or 15 miles of unmaintained forest service roads. 4WD
pickups are popular too.

The joke is 4WD is what you use after you've gotten stuck in 2WD. I've
gotten where I've needed to go with 2WD all my life. Or 1WD when you get
down to it. I have a dual sport bike I use for gnarly stuff but I've
managed to get standard street bikes into some strange places without
destroying anything.

A lot of it's just psychological and a Subaru salesman can convince
people AWD is safer and so forth. afaik, they're good cars anyway and
that just gives them a little edge.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 07:48 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> The American North East, The Canadian Maritimes, and Alberta and BC -
> for starters.

Alberta? Oh, you mean North Montana. Given Montana and Alberta's
distaste for those eastern pols maybe we should secede together and form
our own little country.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 09:11 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
> Wife thinks cars should all
> have AWD and snow tires in winter.

I just have FWD with electronic traction control but I mount studs all
around Thanksgiving weekend. This valley normally doesn't get all that
much snow but the temps hover around freezing, just enough to give you a
nice coating of ice in the morning.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 10:46 AM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> He has a chassis standing
> in the hangar that I'd love to make into a car if it wasn't so
> terribly hard to licence and insure one here in Ontario

I don't know what my insurance man would do but this state is very
casual. Even a quad with rudimentary lights is street legal. One of the
oddities is there is a street license and an off road license and they
don't overlap. For example my dual sport bike is street legal but in
theory isn't legal for off road. If I wanted to ride trails I'd have to
pony up for the off road sticker too, not that anybody runs around in
the woods checking too often.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 07:40 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> Judging by the Vega you would stay away from Chevy/GM too. (not a bad
> idea, by the way).

They weren't all that bad. Now the Chevette...

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 02:24 PM, Oren wrote:
> I do like Toyota, Bought my wife one (2006 new). Yesterday she bought
> a used 2007 SABB SUV XR9, complete records, excellent condition - no
> recalls issued. Never had a SAAB. So I can't comment other that it is
> "her purchase". And she is tickled.

I had a girl friend who kept me around for a while because I could work
on her Saabs. That was back in the Saab 96 days though.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 07:50 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> I sold my 1981 Tercel with over 360,000 miles on it - The guy I sold
> it to was still driving it at 465000. We had couriers running them
> with close to 500000 when I left the dealership.

My brother had a Tercel he loved. The end of the road was when it
couldn't pass the California emissions and would have cost a mint to
fix. He gave it to one of those organizations that send cars to third
world countries so it's probably still polluting away somewhere.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 02:51 PM, notbob wrote:
> Have you ever owned a British sports car or motorcycle. I have. Lots
> of 'em. Smith and Lucas were steady performers, in my experience.
> Even Wikipedia sez "this title is undeserved"[1].

Guilty on the sports car, not on the bike. The Lucas components were no
more primitive than the rest of the car :) I do miss spending Saturday
mornings with my head under the bonnet listening to the SU's whistling
there little tunes.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 02:57 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> Or do you mean teh bonnet?

The Brits talk funny. It wasn't much of a car but I did like the Triumph
Spitfire. The whole bonnet/wings assembly swung up so you could sit on a
front tire and drink a beer while contemplating the hamster wheel that
powered it. Much nicer than the old Jags.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

By 1974 they had solved some of the big problems. In 1976 they had
pretty well sorted out the cooling and lubrication. The 1971-73 range
were pretty terrible cars, all around.
Some of the early cars stood up,, but more burned oil, smoked,
rattled, rusted,, and generally just self destructed.

[rbowman]

On 08/07/2015 04:01 PM, Oren wrote:
> <http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2014/10/27/11/17/2015_lincoln_mkz-pic-7858807314636613442-640x480.jpeg<
>
> He doesn't need an extended warranty, having already spent $55,000! I
> have begged him to leave the car in my driveway.

Meh. I had a '62 Lincoln back in the days when a Lincoln really looked
like something. I guess I'm getting old because the cars all look the
same to me with a few exceptions. I don't know what brand it is but one
model always reminds me a a dog hunkered down to take a crap.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 22:51:03 -0600, rbowman <bow...@erewhon.com>
wrote:

GM's biggest mistake on the "shove-it" was not installing dual
exhausts. It's pretty hard to push a wheelbarrow with only one handle
- - -
All kidding aside - for a CHEAP car they were not bad. Emphasis on
CHEAP, not car.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 20:25:51 -0400, Ron <bigel...@msn.com> wrote:



>>

>> The little toyota trucks seem to run forever. I've seen the body and
>> frame rust away while the engine, drivetrain and rear end are still
>> good and ready to go.
>
>I put 220K on an '83 Celica before selling it in the mid 90's. It was
>still running great when I sold it.

I knew two Celica owners. One finally gave his away at 345,000 and
the other sold his with 320,000. Duct tape and primer was the main
fender material at that point. Serious rust issues, but ran smooth.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 23:10:46 -0400, Ron <bigel...@msn.com> wrote:

>> Judging by the Vega you would stay away from Chevy/GM too. (not a bad
>> idea, by the way).
>>
>
>I owned a '75 Vega GT and never had a problem with it.

Depends on the use. They were OK for occasional short trips around
town. When my brother moved cross country I drove the Vega out there
for him. Long days at 75 mph. It was never the same after that.

[notbob]

On 2015-08-08, cl...@snyder.on.ca <cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote:

> Judging by the Vega you would stay away from Chevy/GM too. (not a bad
> idea, by the way).

Each car is its own, jes like ppl.

I hadda Vega wagon as a service vehicle and it was awesome. Never had
any probs and beat a Porsche 912 coming back (80) from Reno. The
Porsche would smoke me in the straightaways, but I always caught him
in the corners. He finally threw his hands up in submission. I will
admit to being young, stupid, and having indulged in a wee bit o' the
barely. ;)

nb