speechless
Sam Lloyd
PMG
wrote:
>I don't even know what to say...
>
>http://www.vintageamps.com/showroom.html
I've seen that guy's pictures before. The guy's a bit of a show off.
Even poses with a Telecaster!
You might be able to assume that he doesn't have enough power to run
that wall of Marshalls all at the same time.
Pete
--
You don't have to go home,
but you can't stay here.
Dallas Sound
Okay, he's got the gear. Next: guitar lessons!
TimePixDC
>From: sam_l...@yahoo.com (Sam Lloyd)
>Date: Sat, Apr 26, 2003 12:58 PM
>I don't even know what to say...
>
>http://www.vintageamps.com/showroom.html
Jesus H. Christ!
Wämp
Tutor. And not a JBL or Fender in sight. Chris
Boyd Williamson
> Subject: speechless
My god... we've been liberating the wrong fucking country...
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Mark Bratcher
They won't all fit in his coffin.
Boyd Williamson
Seriously though, there are a lot of people out there doing the same thing
with vintage Les Pauls, Fenders, Gretschs, Rickenbackers, etc. There are
guitar shows where one guy will have 30 or 40 1959 or '60 matching Sunburst
Les Pauls. They spend the rest of the time locked away.
It makes me kinda sick, because these instruments and amps should be out
there playing gigs. Collectors like this take them out of the hands of
players and drive prices through the Stratocaster stratosphere. Except to
serve the owner's vanity when they show them off, they might as well burn
them and dump the ashes in the ocean.
Pisses me off right smart, it does...
Zoid
Mark Bratcher
...and I'd hate to be his roady! ;-)
feklar
Hey, share some of the wealth, buddy
Sam Lloyd <sam_l...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d44352d4.03042...@posting.google.com...
Boogie Woogie Flu
> with vintage Les Pauls, Fenders, Gretschs, Rickenbackers, etc. There are
> guitar shows where one guy will have 30 or 40 1959 or '60 matching
Sunburst
> Les Pauls. They spend the rest of the time locked away.
>
> It makes me kinda sick, because these instruments and amps should be out
> there playing gigs.
Yeah, but don't you wish you had 'em? I do.
Boyd Williamson
> Subject: Re: speechless
>
> Yeah, but don't you wish you had 'em? I do.
One each, sure, but not like these Scrooge McFucks.
Zoid
Wämp
RonSonic
>> From: sam_l...@yahoo.com (Sam Lloyd)
>> Subject: speechless
>>
>> I don't even know what to say...
>>
>> http://www.vintageamps.com/showroom.html
>
>Seriously though, there are a lot of people out there doing the same thing
>with vintage Les Pauls, Fenders, Gretschs, Rickenbackers, etc. There are
>guitar shows where one guy will have 30 or 40 1959 or '60 matching Sunburst
>Les Pauls. They spend the rest of the time locked away.
>
>It makes me kinda sick, because these instruments and amps should be out
>there playing gigs. Collectors like this take them out of the hands of
>players and drive prices through the Stratocaster stratosphere. Except to
>serve the owner's vanity when they show them off, they might as well burn
>them and dump the ashes in the ocean.
>
>Pisses me off right smart, it does...
S'okay. He'll die or go broke and the accumulation will be split up and sold off
and go back into circulation.
It does suck having this cool shit tied up though.
claudel
Hi
Please let me throw a few factoids into the speculation.
apologies in advance if I butcher any details.
#1 This collection has long been dispersed...
#2 Carl Nielsen ( The guy in the pics / lucky owner ) has been described
as a "Forrest Gump" ( with functional synapses :^)) of the 60's Brit music scene,
being a long-term employee of ( several ? ) music stores back in the day
I was fortunate enough to be introduced to him and his lovely wife a few years
ago at a Voxfest and Carl seems to be a very nice, easy-going individual
with neither a hint of greed or a twinge of regret over the dispersed collection.
#3 Many / all of the pictured amps were acquired when they were considered to
be of little /no value. Trade-ins, etc.
#4 Wouln't ya love to hit just 1 power chord thru all those Marshalls?
Probly burn $1k in electricity/min :^)
#5 Try google for "Carl Neilsen" for a more accurate/detailed explanation.
We now return you to the ongoing political discussion/screeching
Claude
CJT
I agree. What's the point of having 20 of the same amp, anyway?
Andy van Tol
Yep, I'm really amazed at what some people can do with PhotoShop....
Andy
Boyd Williamson
> Subject: Re: speechless
>
> #1 This collection has long been dispersed...
Well, that makes me feel a lot better.
> #2 Carl Nielsen ( The guy in the pics / lucky owner ) has been described
> as a "Forrest Gump" ( with functional synapses :^)) of the 60's Brit music
> scene,
> being a long-term employee of ( several ? ) music stores back in the day
> I was fortunate enough to be introduced to him and his lovely wife a few years
> ago at a Voxfest and Carl seems to be a very nice, easy-going individual
> with neither a hint of greed or a twinge of regret over the dispersed
> collection.
In the pictures, I count 100 Marshall heads, 29 4x12 or 8x10 cabs; must be
at least 70 Vox AC-30s... He must have gotten paid a little better than I
did when I worked in a music store.
> #3 Many / all of the pictured amps were acquired when they were considered to
> be of little /no value. Trade-ins, etc.
Just exactly when was THAT? Right before I bought the Brooklyn Bridge?
> #4 Wouln't ya love to hit just 1 power chord thru all those Marshalls?
> Probly burn $1k in electricity/min :^)
A network just to get the guitar signal TO all those amps would be rather
ponderous...
That's not a collection. It's a HOARD.
claudel
>> From: cla...@bolt.sonic.net (claudel)
>> Subject: Re: speechless
>>
>> #1 This collection has long been dispersed...
>
>Well, that makes me feel a lot better.
I'm certain Carl will sleep better at night with you feeling better.
>
>> #2 Carl Nielsen ( The guy in the pics / lucky owner ) has been described
>> as a "Forrest Gump" ( with functional synapses :^)) of the 60's Brit music
>> scene,
>> being a long-term employee of ( several ? ) music stores back in the day
>> I was fortunate enough to be introduced to him and his lovely wife a few years
>> ago at a Voxfest and Carl seems to be a very nice, easy-going individual
>> with neither a hint of greed or a twinge of regret over the dispersed
>> collection.
>
>In the pictures, I count 100 Marshall heads, 29 4x12 or 8x10 cabs; must be
>at least 70 Vox AC-30s... He must have gotten paid a little better than I
>did when I worked in a music store.
>
>> #3 Many / all of the pictured amps were acquired when they were considered to
>> be of little /no value. Trade-ins, etc.
>
>Just exactly when was THAT? Right before I bought the Brooklyn Bridge?
Late '60s / Early 70's... All that worthless old toob stuff was
being traded in on the groovy new sand amps. You didn't buy
anything when you had the chance? Bummmer. You shoulda bought gear
instead of someone else's bridge.
>
>> #4 Wouln't ya love to hit just 1 power chord thru all those Marshalls?
>> Probly burn $1k in electricity/min :^)
>
>A network just to get the guitar signal TO all those amps would be rather
>ponderous...
>
>That's not a collection. It's a HOARD.
Whatever.
Claude
John King
My first reaction to seeing all the duplicates of the same models
is kind of the same as yours. However, to cast all 'collectors'
in the same light isn't fair.
I've heard this argument before. The nasty ol' 'collectors' are
keeping all the great guitars away from the 'real' players.
Lets look at it from a different angle:
Some (most in fact) collectors ARE real players. Some are very good
and/or quite well known. Most of them are also smart enough to keep
their $100,000 Les Paul Standard flame tops secured, and wouldn't
consider taking them to their average gig. That type of instrument
would only be used at the 'Prince's Ball', or similar high profile gig.
IMO, anyone dumb enough to think a '59 LP should be out at the road-
house playing "Born to be Wild" for a bunch of drunken bikers, is an
idiot, and wouldn't deserve the guitar in the first place.
In the case of all this guy's Marshall and Vox amps, no great guitar
players are being deprived of a good sounding amp. Even if he buys
every stinkin' vintage Marshall and Vox on the planet. There are plenty
of boutique/custom amp builders that will build a serious player anything
they want, from an exact clone to the most exotic amp imaginable.
Also, the $1000 + custom amp is likely to sound as good or considerably
better than the original vintage item anyway.
From where I sit, as a player, I say- let those $million dollar$
collectors have their toys, as long as we peons have plenty of good
amps to play on. And we do! There are several guys right here on AGA
that can, and do, build/sell incredible, hand built, custom amps.
So if someone is REALLY SERIOUS about having the finest in playable
amps, they are available. If they're wanking about "all the collectors
have all the good ones", it's bullshit. They're just jealous that THEY
don't have all those old/vintage/valuable amps, it has nothing to do
with some good player being deprived of a good tool to work with.
It's amp envy, pure and simple. In fact, some of the most expensive/
collectable amps aren't even that playable. They're valuable because of
their HISTORICAL value, not because they are sought by 'players'.
Also, I hope you're happy with your bridge. As there WAS a day when
very few people valued what are now collectable guitars/amps. I got my
1953 Tweed Deluxe in the early '70s on a trade involving about $30 worth
of gear, because nobody wanted those 'old fashioned' outdated amps. To
them is was an embarrassment to be seen playing on such antiquated
equipment, when all their friends had shiny new black tolex models.
I've bought Ampeg fliptops and silverface Deluxes in excellent condition
for less than $200, and that was only 12-15 years ago. You didn't buy any?
Sorry...
But don't blame some collector that bought amps for two or three decades
because he enjoys them, for the fact that you didn't have the foresight
to do likewise. Some folks just caught on to the concept of collecting
guitars and amps earlier than others. I caught on early, just didn't have
all the $$$ to fulfill ALL of my ambitions ;=].
I can't tell you how many $99 Mosrites (including Ventures models) that
I strolled right past in pawnshops back in the '70s. IMHO, they were crappy
guitars back them, and now they're EXPENSIVE crappy guitars! I'd be a rich
man today if I had bought *just* the Mosrites that I didn't look twice at,
and kept them for 30 years to resell. However, I don't blame anyone but myself
for that. Not a single Mosrite collector had a hand in MY decisions.
So... which do you suppose did more harm to you... the fact that this guy
collected amps?... or the fact that you didn't?
Don't blame HIM (or other 'collectors') for YOUR inaction!
<rant mode off>
John King
if you think this is a collection:
http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/rockinamps.html
perhaps I need to define a legitimate collection for you!
Boyd Williamson
> Subject: Re: speechless
>
> Don't blame HIM (or other 'collectors') for YOUR inaction!
>
> <rant mode off>
Rant noted. Your case is well made.
I think the difference between us on this issue is the idea that some may
see this from an artist's viewpoint, and some may see it from a merchant's
perspective. I may be at a disadvantage in this newsgroup for the fact that
there are a lot of merchants here.
The artist, who would use, say, a vintage Marshall head as an instrument or
tool to create his art, could see owning maybe three of them, one to play
through, one as a spare, and one to have in the shop being repaired, modded,
or as a trade, so he would have some leverage without risking his playing
amp and spare. But a hundred Marshall heads? That would make very little
sense to the player.
But from a merchant's perspective, a hundred vintage Marshall heads would
make a great deal of sense. A valuable commodity that's bought and sold. The
more that are collected, the rarer they get, and the higher the price.
Not meaning to knock you, John, because there is also a legitimate reason
for merchants to exist, but I was one of those guys out there playing my ass
off, full time, performing and recording with every bit of gear that I had.
Between 1974 and 1983, the band I was in averaged around 250 - 300 dates per
year, mostly one-nighters. If the merchants can't support those guys,
then... ?
I think it inapropriate for you to point the finger at me, and accuse me of
"inaction." Accumulating wealth by buying up all the tools of its creation
never occured to me. I was, perhaps naively, trying to make music.
Boyd Williamson
Boyd Williamson
> Subject: Re: speechless
Actually, when I think of all instruments and amps that passed through my
hands back then (mid-'70's), I can't help but wish that I'd tried harder to
keep them. Used, quality guitars (Les Pauls, L-series Strats, ES-335s, etc.)
generally went for $200-300. And it stayed that way well into the '80's. I
can't help but feel that the collectors (a lot of them Japanese) had a lot
to do with prices taking off after that.
A lot of guitars passed through my hands (probably 50 or 60 in 9 years), and
I played the shit out of a few of them. I had a Braziliaburst Dean V (one of
his first thousand) that was on the road with me until the case was about
40% duct tape. It came with 2 Dimarzio pickups, and I'd had a third
installed. I had seven pickups replaced under warranty on that guitar
because I played it so much that the plastic tops wore down until the coils
were exposed and the wire broke (I didn't think they'd do it under warranty,
but they were tickled pink that I was playing their product that much).
It had the strap button screw at the heel reinstalled four times where it
broke off. When I got rid of it, the bridge needed replacing because the
string windings on the low E were sawing through it badly. Oddly, I never
needed to refret it. Guess I was playing all over the fingerboard back then.
Sold it during the early '80's for $225, and didn't tell the guy that two of
the pickups were being held in position with a stack of guitar picks.
I also had a '65 L-series Mustang that was a great guitar, which had a
Duncan 1/4 Pounder at the bridge and one of the switches removed. Cut my own
nut for it. I sweated right through the chrome on that one and touched up
the paint with a Magik Marker. It took an incredible amount of abuse, stayed
in tune like a dream, and never broke. Sold that one in the late '80's for
$450. My then-wife was making me sell nearly everything that wasn't tied
down.
I've still got my Rickenbacker 331 Light Show guitar, though. I got rid of
the wife.
I don't remember a time around there anywhere when tube Marshall heads and
4x12 cabs were cheap or obsolete. Vox, yes (I once bought a really clean
AC-50 for $175 about 1980 or so - didn't like it), but not Marshalls.
John King
Boyd Williamson wrote:
>
> > From: John King <kin...@swbell.net>
> > Subject: Re: speechless
> >
> > Don't blame HIM (or other 'collectors') for YOUR inaction!
> >
> > <rant mode off>
>
> Rant noted. Your case is well made.
>
> I think the difference between us on this issue is the idea that some may
> see this from an artist's viewpoint, and some may see it from a merchant's
> perspective. I may be at a disadvantage in this newsgroup for the fact that
> there are a lot of merchants here.
Just as being a "collector" doesn't preclude musicianship, neither does being
a "merchant", "technician", "salesman" or any other labels cast about.
I see no reason that any of these terms are mutually exclusive.
Though I've bought/sold/traded several hundred guitars/amps over many years,
and have traded at least a couple hundred in the last couple of years, I played
enough gigs between 1980-1990 that; I've *still* played at least five times more
gigs than guitars/amps I've traded.
>
> The artist, who would use, say, a vintage Marshall head as an instrument or
> tool to create his art, could see owning maybe three of them, one to play
> through, one as a spare, and one to have in the shop being repaired, modded,
> or as a trade, so he would have some leverage without risking his playing
> amp and spare. But a hundred Marshall heads? That would make very little
> sense to the player.
It only makes sense from a collector/investor perspective.
>
> But from a merchant's perspective, a hundred vintage Marshall heads would
> make a great deal of sense. A valuable commodity that's bought and sold. The
> more that are collected, the rarer they get, and the higher the price.
A wise "merchant" would have no interest in having that much
inventory on hand. The purpose of a merchant is to *move*
merchandise, not let it gather.
>
> Not meaning to knock you, John, because there is also a legitimate reason
> for merchants to exist, but I was one of those guys out there playing my ass
> off, full time, performing and recording with every bit of gear that I had.
> Between 1974 and 1983, the band I was in averaged around 250 - 300 dates per
> year, mostly one-nighters. If the merchants can't support those guys,
> then... ?
>
See above. I've played my ass off for just enough to get by and pay
expenses also. But a merchant, or collector's first responsibility
is to themselves. (Note that since I only play and trade as a hobby
now, I don't consider myself a professional musician or a "merchant",
just a hobbyist. I have some fun and sometimes a little profit too.)
> I think it inapropriate for you to point the finger at me, and accuse me of
> "inaction." Accumulating wealth by buying up all the tools of its creation
> never occured to me. I was, perhaps naively, trying to make music.
>
> Zoid
>
No more inappropriate or unjust than your claims of "collectors buying
up all the good ones, so we poor musicians don't have any tools to work
with." I still assert that when someone wanks on that one, it's bullshit.
As I said before, there are plenty of reasonably priced consumer and pro
musician grade guitars and amps available to go around, even if ultra rich
collectors bought every stinkin' vintage guitar and amp on the planet!
There are no "artists" damaged by collectors, and in fact, some artists
ARE collectors (and/or dealers/shop owners etc...).
It just isn't the black and white that some folks make it out to be.
I just get tired of the argument that the "mean ol' collectors are depriving
some more deserving, starving musician of a tool he needs to perform his
craft. I don't buy it.
Besides, the alternative would be that the "best" vintage gear would be
assigned to the "most deserving" musicians without regard for their ability
to pay... Say... you're not some kinda commie pink-o trying to subvert
capitalism are ya? ;=]
John King
capitalist pig
John King
Boyd Williamson wrote:
>
> BTW, John, yours IS a collection, not a hoard.
>
> Zoid
While most dictionaries might say something like:
A group of objects gathered for study or exhibit...
IMO, to be a true "collection" there should be continuity
or a theme.
Examples: One of every model guitar Fender made in 1964.
One of every custom color Stratocaster regardless of year.
One of every circuit design Fender tweed Deluxe.
(Am I obsessing on Fenders again? ...sorry ;=]).
Those would be true collections. I only consider my modest
gaggle to be an eclectic gathering. The only common bond
amongst them is that I found something aesthetically interesting,
or sonically redeeming about them.
John King
John King
Boyd Williamson wrote:
>
> > From: Boyd Williamson <zo...@mwt.net>
> > Subject: Re: speechless
>
> Actually, when I think of all instruments and amps that passed through my
> hands back then (mid-'70's), I can't help but wish that I'd tried harder to
> keep them. Used, quality guitars (Les Pauls, L-series Strats, ES-335s, etc.)
> generally went for $200-300. And it stayed that way well into the '80's. I
> can't help but feel that the collectors (a lot of them Japanese) had a lot
> to do with prices taking off after that.
I won't deny that! I know one big-time vintage dealer in my area that
shipped vintage Gibson, Fender, Rickenbacker, Martin, and Mosrites
guitars to Japan by the dozens on a monthly basis for the last 20+ years.
(Besides selling to local/national musicians and collectors.) I don't blame
him, he's just making a living. In fact, I used to buy guitars and amps at
pawnshops and immediately resell them to him, for a respectable profit, knowing
full well that he would probably be sending it to Japan or into a private
collection. I did eventually begin to resent all the vintage guitars and
amps that were going out of country, but that's just the free market system.
If they will pay more, they deserve them. Possible exception: it would be nice
if someone like the Smithsonian Institute had examples of the most historically
significant vintage guitars and amps.
>
> A lot of guitars passed through my hands (probably 50 or 60 in 9 years), and
> I played the shit out of a few of them. I had a Braziliaburst Dean V (one of
> his first thousand) that was on the road with me until the case was about
> 40% duct tape. It came with 2 Dimarzio pickups, and I'd had a third
> installed. I had seven pickups replaced under warranty on that guitar
> because I played it so much that the plastic tops wore down until the coils
> were exposed and the wire broke (I didn't think they'd do it under warranty,
> but they were tickled pink that I was playing their product that much).
>
> It had the strap button screw at the heel reinstalled four times where it
> broke off. When I got rid of it, the bridge needed replacing because the
> string windings on the low E were sawing through it badly. Oddly, I never
> needed to refret it. Guess I was playing all over the fingerboard back then.
> Sold it during the early '80's for $225, and didn't tell the guy that two of
> the pickups were being held in position with a stack of guitar picks.
The early Deans, Charvell/Jacksons etc... are going up, up, up, as
the folks that originally played them now reach age to have "nostalgia"
for them and desire them back.
>
> I also had a '65 L-series Mustang that was a great guitar, which had a
> Duncan 1/4 Pounder at the bridge and one of the switches removed. Cut my own
> nut for it. I sweated right through the chrome on that one and touched up
> the paint with a Magik Marker. It took an incredible amount of abuse, stayed
> in tune like a dream, and never broke. Sold that one in the late '80's for
> $450. My then-wife was making me sell nearly everything that wasn't tied
> down.
>
I've ALWAYS wanted a nice Mustang, but still haven't bought one.
That was what I thought I was getting for my 13th birthday, since
we went to the music store and looked at them. What I got was a
$20 Teisco ET-200. I fell victim to the old "don't know if he'll
stick with it". I must say, I wasn't as disappointed then as I am
now ;=]. I still have the Teisco, and it still plays as... ummm...
"good" as ever ;=].
I passed on a really clean mid '60s yellowed, Oly white Mustang
5-6 years ago, because the shop wouldn't come off their $375 to
the $325 i wanted to pay. I now see equivalent ones on eBay for
$500-$600+. Yup, I've kicked myself plenty for that bit of mule-
headed stupidity.
> I've still got my Rickenbacker 331 Light Show guitar, though. I got rid of
> the wife.
>
I always thought those were very cool!
You probably made the right choice. My wife gave up complaining
years ago about my guitar/amp obsessions. We were both happier ;=].
I sold the only two Rickenbackers I've ever had. One was a little
3/4 size like the 325, but only one pickup (can't remember the model).
It was horrible for tuning and intonation.
The other was a solidbody, bolt neck model 480, that nobody else
seems to like or pay a lot for, but I thought it was possibly the
best solidbody rhythm guitar ever! One of those few guitars I really
regret selling.
> I don't remember a time around there anywhere when tube Marshall heads and
> 4x12 cabs were cheap or obsolete. Vox, yes (I once bought a really clean
> AC-50 for $175 about 1980 or so - didn't like it), but not Marshalls.
>
> Zoid
That is true about Marshalls, they may have gotten a little
cheaper for a while as newer models came out, but not to the
extent that most other guitars/amps did. Like tweed Fenders
were really out of style in the '60s and '70s, not many
(especially younger) players wanted to be seen playing "those
junky, old fashioned amps"! In fact, even the kids today don't
have much interest in them. My 19 year old nephew gets to play
on my stuff, and if he can't dial in a death metal tone, he's
not interested. He walks right past my old Fenders and Gibsons.
But then he'll watch my old SRV tapes and rave about his playing
and tone ;=]. But will he listen to me about what good tone is?????
NOooooo!!!! Kids ;=/ !!!
John King
Boyd Williamson
> on my stuff, and if he can't dial in a death metal tone, he's
> not interested. He walks right past my old Fenders and Gibsons.
>
> But then he'll watch my old SRV tapes and rave about his playing
> and tone ;=]. But will he listen to me about what good tone is?????
> NOooooo!!!! Kids ;=/ !!!
It is the sacred duty of each new generation to come up with music that
pisses off their parents (mine did it very well).
And it's remarkable how exactly they've all had to follow their generation's
specific style instructions so they can be viewed as individuals, conforming
to nonconformity.
feklar
cheapest guitar, sold for those who wanted a Strat but couldn't afford one?
In 1977 I knew a friend who had one and it royally sucked. A stock Kay or
Norma guitar made the action and sound of that Mustang a joke in
comparison... Maybe just a bad batch, but that one, I wouldn't have thought
you could have *given away* to someone, let alone sell...
John King
feklar wrote:
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Mustang Fender's lowest-end,
> cheapest guitar, sold for those who wanted a Strat but couldn't afford one?
>
Ok, you're wrong. Depending on the year there were one or more models
below the Mustang. The Musicmaster, and DuoSonic immediately come to mind.
The Mustang was a student model, but there were others with fewer features.
So... there were lots of Fender guitars below the Stratocaster in the
model lineup. All of 'em were marketed at people that couldn't afford
a Strat, Tele, Jazzmaster, Jaguar etc...
> In 1977 I knew a friend who had one and it royally sucked. A stock Kay or
> Norma guitar made the action and sound of that Mustang a joke in
> comparison... Maybe just a bad batch, but that one, I wouldn't have thought
> you could have *given away* to someone, let alone sell...
How good was your friend at setting up a guitar? If he was
a typical kid, the complexities of the vibrato, intonation,
truss rod and bridge were beyond him. If the guitar was THAT
bad, and he chose it, that in itself speaks to his lack of
knowledge/experience.
I've played Mustangs that were *very* stable as long as you didn't
try any EVH dive bombs on them. OTOH, I've played some that were
difficult to keep in tune even if you didn't touch the whammy.
They probably needed some new tuners and a setup.
As for Kay and Norma guitars, *some* of the Kays could be sweet,
but I never played a Norma that wasn't a huge pile-o-stink.
BTW Kay was a company with a deep history. Check out this 1931
Kay Recording King- Mando/Tenor I sold recently:
http://home.swbell.net/j_h_king/1931_kay_recording_king.html
John King
http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/rockinamps.html
feklar
news:3EB497E3...@swbell.net...
> Ok, you're wrong.
OK I'm wrong.
> I've played Mustangs that were *very* stable as long as you didn't
> try any EVH dive bombs on them. OTOH, I've played some that were
> difficult to keep in tune even if you didn't touch the whammy.
> They probably needed some new tuners and a setup.
Yea this guy was only 16 and didn't have a lot of experience aligning a
guitar.
Didn't the Mustang have even fewer frets than a Strat?
> As for Kay and Norma guitars, *some* of the Kays could be sweet,
> but I never played a Norma that wasn't a huge pile-o-stink.
I've only tried two Kays, but both sucked... maybe could have been fixed up
though. I actually rebuilt a $10 garage sale Norma once when I was hard up,
and it actually didn't turn out that bad... of course, there was no way I
was going to keep the Norma name on it and get laughed at...
> BTW Kay was a company with a deep history. Check out this 1931
> Kay Recording King- Mando/Tenor I sold recently:
>
> http://home.swbell.net/j_h_king/1931_kay_recording_king.html
Not bad...
Boyd Williamson
> Subject: Re: speechless
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Mustang Fender's lowest-end,
> cheapest guitar, sold for those who wanted a Strat but couldn't afford one?
>
> In 1977 I knew a friend who had one and it royally sucked. A stock Kay or
> Norma guitar made the action and sound of that Mustang a joke in
> comparison... Maybe just a bad batch, but that one, I wouldn't have thought
> you could have *given away* to someone, let alone sell...
The Mustang was the Musicmaster/Duosonic body with a simple, but rugged
vibrato. I believe the scale was 24", like the Jaguar (or a Les Paul), as
opposed to the Stratocaster and Jazzmaster's 25 1/2". The bridge was a
simplified version of that used on the Jaguar/Jazzmaster, having solid
bridge saddles, rather than the adjustable saddles on those. It had two
pickups, each wired to a 3 position switch that turned it on, off, or
reversed the phase. It was less-featured than the higher priced models, but
not by much, and had all the quality of everything Fender made with Leo at
the helm. The vibrato didn't throw the pitch as far as a Strat, but
considerably more than the Jaguar/Jazzmaster.
When CBS took over from Leo Fender, there were suddenly a bunch of bean
counters who set policy there. I'm not sure if the L's were added to the
serial numbers to indicate the last instruments overseen by Leo, or if it's
just a happy coincidence. I've read that one of the first things CBS
addressed was the fact that Fender was way behind on orders, and they
expanded the factory about 10x. Product was bound to suffer.
For me, the '65 Mustang was a bit of a boyhood fantasy realized. When I
first started taking guitar lessons, Fender guitars were "to die for." I was
hoping my folks would spring for one, but, like John, they weren't sure I'd
"stick with it." When this L-series Mustang was offered to me around 1980 or
so for $175, I jumped on it. Not to mention, my signature guitar-flash tune
just happened to be a song I wrote about a particular WWII fighter plane,
"Mustang."
For my uses, that Mustang was rugged as hell. The pickups were a bit weak,
so I installed a Duncan Strat 1/4 Pounder in the bridge slot (it fit just
fine). The switch above the bridge pickup was in the way, and skinning my
knuckles, so I removed it, wiring both pickups to the remaining one
(bridge/both/neck). I made my own nut for it, and kept it strung with
.010-.056 guage D'Addarios, and used soap as a lubricant in the nut grooves
(this was before I discovered the hourglass-nut groove trick), and changed
the strings every other show. I mostly used the vibrato for what it was
intended for, but did some dive-bombing with it regularly. If it wasn't
quite in tune after a serious dive, a little wiggle on the handle would
"resettle" it.
Once each night, we would end a set with a finishing tag, with me going out
onto the dance floor and mock-smashing the Mustang, both hands on the neck
and swinging it over my head like a battleax, pulling the action at the last
moment, and letting the guitar clatter on the floor, feeding back. I used
the Mustang for this several hundred times, and it never broke or
complained. I used a red marker to touch up the dings in the paint, and I
never had to adjust the truss rod. I sweated straight through the chrome in
places on that guitar, and it wasn't the prettiest when I sold it in the
late '80's for $450, but it was still as solid as a brick you-know-what, and
the guy buying it was positively glowing.