IRC HELL
Daednu
Okay, I just got Mirc tonight. I tried it out. I finally figured out to
type "goth". I ended up getting in a room called something like "goth
viagra".
It was hell.
Pure and simple.
The people were horrible. I got kicked for no reason. The person said
"don't disagree with me". Then I got kicked a couple more times for no
reason. What's that???
I tried to ask why everyone was so abrasive, I was told to f*ck off and
die.
Tell me nobody here goes by "noctem" or "mmmcc". Horrible people.
Please, tell me there is more to IRC than this. Tell me there are decent
groups. Frig I feel horrible after that whole thing. :(
If that's all there is, I'm deleting Mirc.
*Daednu (feeling unusually down)
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ "This one is going to have a mind of her own" ~
~ #(don't forget to take out the NOSPAM from my addy)# ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lady Greycat
author.]
In article <35AEF25F...@storm.ca>, (NOSPAM...@storm.ca) Daednu
said in a loud stage whisper:
> The people were horrible. I got kicked for no reason. The person said
> "don't disagree with me". Then I got kicked a couple more times for no
> reason. What's that???
> I tried to ask why everyone was so abrasive, I was told to f*ck off and
> die.
> Tell me nobody here goes by "noctem" or "mmmcc". Horrible people.
Sounds like #gothic. They are rather rude and childish at times there.
There are a few really cool people in #gothic, but for the most part,
it's not work your time.
>
> Please, tell me there is more to IRC than this. Tell me there are decent
> groups.
Try #altgothic...That seems like the natural choice for a group, eh?:)
Most of the goth groups are on invisible <secret> mode because well, it
keeps the mansonites out most of the time, and people like Joe Bob who
wants to be an ass is less likely to find the group.
you will find alot of regulars from AG in #altgothic, and it seems like a
pretty nice place, for the most part.
Greycat
--
~~~@~~~ Http://members.theglobe.com/ladygreycat ~~~@~~~
HandToForehead Spice
"Black as midnight, black as pitch,
Blacker than the foulest witch"
Narnia
: Okay, I just got Mirc tonight. I tried it out. I finally figured out to
: type "goth". I ended up getting in a room called something like "goth
: viagra".
I'm guessing that was the topic.
: It was hell.
: Pure and simple.
<kicking, etc. snipped>
Ah. What were you on? If this was EFnet, I'm willing to bet this was #gothic.
: Please, tell me there is more to IRC than this. Tell me there are decent
: groups. Frig I feel horrible after that whole thing. :(
: If that's all there is, I'm deleting Mirc.
IRC is wonderful.
Come to #altgothic on EFnet. :)
=Narnia=
http://www.velvet.net
babygoth list/irc/webring admin, #altgothic addict, honorary milgoth
Cavalorn
writes
>What the hell????
>Okay, I just got Mirc tonight. I tried it out. I finally figured out to
>type "goth". I ended up getting in a room called something like "goth
>viagra".
Okay, here's what to do.
1) In the Setup window, select an EfNet server.
2) When you connect, type /join #altgothic
3) Boggle at the number of a.g. regulars you can now chat to.
4) Don't forget to say hello.
Alternatively, visit #gothik or #goths on the Undernet, where I will be
happy to show you around (if I'm on at all that is... bloody UK phone
charges), or #goth on the same server, where the person to say hi to is
TonyGirl (aka Leo).
Cavalorn
--
'If I can't have my evenings off with cocoa and animal crackers, I
don't want to be your Bitch Goddess.' (Pat Califia)
Katar Shon-Dranith
>What the hell????
">S<"
>Please, tell me there is more to IRC than this. Tell me there are
>decent groups. Frig I feel horrible after that whole thing. :(
>If that's all there is, I'm deleting Mirc.
Click on the button in the toolbar with the folder icon. Choose an
EFNet server (beware the Missouri one, it doesn't have any spam
rules, so you'll have to build up a big /ignore list). Click "Connect
to IRC server!". Then type /join #altgothic in the status window.
Congratulations, you just found the best channel on IRC (IMNSHO).
>*Daednu (feeling unusually down)
You'll find yourself feeling much better once you've found #altgothic.
High Lord Katar Shon-Dranith
--
-Bastard child of the seven moons. ICQ: 12741673 ^-_-^ ^-_-^ ^-_-^ NX74205
"it won't give up it wants me dead, goddamn this noise inside my head" NIN
"And when all is over and we return to dust, who will be my judge and which
one do I trust?" Stone Temple Pilots ~~~>Queen Lowri's clever .sig<~~~
Leonora the Lonely KittenLady
Daednu <NOSPAM...@storm.ca> dared to write:
>
>Tell me nobody here goes by "noctem" or "mmmcc". Horrible people.
hahaha
undernet
*smirk*
undernet #goth is...hostile [1]
-Leonora (Mistresss of All Evil & Goddess Material :)
[1] that's why i'm an op ;P
--
---------------A Shattered Heart In Love's Debris---------------
| OfficialCDWhorePigCarryingKittenLadyWenchGothOfTheNYRangers |
| Alt.Gothic.Crown.Princess Member-Alt.Gothic.Arrogant.Bastards |
| http://www.kittenlady.com we...@kittenlady.com ICQ UIN 1962098 |
ren
to fight this vomit rising in my throat every time I try to
go on IRC. I've been on twice in about a year.
I used to go onto EFnet's #gothic for about 5 years mostly
on Saturday night before I would go out. I met really nice
people most who live in San Francisco now. It was like a
#gothic convergence last year, really.
I even met the group that created the bots and ran the
channel, also very nice, Erin? :)
But Play42Day and Neumann didn't like what I had to say one
night and kick banned me. I've been kicked all the time for
about 5 years but never banned. Most of the things I type
are pure Trollish but in silly fun. I was more than hurt for
being banned. I really wanted to kill them. Then I got a
hold of myself. I was planning murder for real. So I said,
"fuck this. IRC isn't worth it." It's not Neumann's and
Play42Day's complete fault. It's the way IRC is set up. They
kick-banned me because I was being an asshole. IRC turns
everybody into assholes. :)
That's really dumb. Getting pissed off at somebody you've
never met because they kick/banned you. Going and stalking
them for two weeks before you put a bullet in their heads
walking through an airport. It's best to just not play on
IRC too much. Perhaps an hour a week.
{o}racle
>In article <35AEF25F...@storm.ca>, Daednu <NOSPAM...@storm.ca>
>writes
>>What the hell????
>>Okay, I just got Mirc tonight. I tried it out. I finally figured out to
>>type "goth". I ended up getting in a room called something like "goth
>>viagra".
>
>Okay, here's what to do.
>
>1) In the Setup window, select an EfNet server.
>2) When you connect, type /join #altgothic
>3) Boggle at the number of a.g. regulars you can now chat to.
>4) Don't forget to say hello.
>
>Alternatively, visit #gothik or #goths on the Undernet, where I will be
>happy to show you around (if I'm on at all that is... bloody UK phone
>charges), or #goth on the same server, where the person to say hi to is
>TonyGirl (aka Leo).
All that, and WHATEVER YOU DO, STAY AWAY FROM #GOTHIC!
#gawth (EffNet) is pretty good, but there are hardly any people on it.
Luv,
{o}racle (sorry to yell)
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
-Sternn
'I believe in the theory of a ruling class. Especially since I rule.'
-Clerks
Individuat
and name calling...
and no mention of Uncle Jed?
I bet he's crying...
*giggle*
You're all soft.
Eileen (doesn't go on #gothic much anymore...but had a nice 3-4 year stay
there)
-----
"1500 years...1500 years...burning witches, burning books,
burning babies, burning everything that's sacred."
-Tori Amos
Indiv...@aol.com //www.students.uiuc.edu/~orzoff
---
Marcus Pan
>
> #Gothic (EFNET) is an excellent channel. You just gotta know the rules.
Being an asshole isn't a rule. It's a problem. That's why I go to
EFNET #altgothic. Not as many bursting flames of egotistical
gother-than-thou attitudes.
--
===>Papa-PAN<===A.G.S-F USE===<http://www.zenweb.com/pan>
My BabyGoths...I *heart* Cymbeline & Hillary & Siobhan & Fuchsia
& Niles & Narnia & Necroangel & Ghoulie & Ischtar & Ivy &
Zoe & Rogue & Annette & Grimm & Issobella & Shahrazad & Rain!
Necr0angel
>That's why I go to
>EFNET #altgothic. Not as many bursting flames of egotistical
>gother-than-thou attitudes.
Unless I'm there;)
necroangel
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2671
"Peer pressure is what you do to people who are not, in your opinion, peers."
ICQ # 6471503
One of PapaPan's babygoffs
Charlotte Ashley
Marcus Pan (p...@idt.net) writes:
> Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn wrote:
>>
>> #Gothic (EFNET) is an excellent channel. You just gotta know the rules.
>
> EFNET #altgothic. Not as many bursting flames of egotistical
> gother-than-thou attitudes.
*snort*
#gothic is not all that bad. At all. No worse than alt.gothic in it's
prime, anyway. ;)
Survival of the Fittest, etc. ;)
leanan sidhe, who likes #gothic as much as one can like a shallow and
meaningless medium.
--
Mysterious are thy laws; http://www.interlog.com/~converg4
The vision's finer then the view;
Her landscape nature never drew
So Fair as Fancy draws.
Skerry Carrie, Quite Contrary!
<cpts...@gothic.net> scribbled in ubergoffick black eyeliner:
>#Gothic (EFNET) is an excellent channel. You just gotta know the rules.
I always found it dreadfully boring. #altgothic, while painfully,
excruciatingly fluffy at times, seems to be preferred among most. :)
Carrie
How Do You Know,
I Won't Hurt You?
Your Flesh Feels So Good
In My Mouth, In My Teeth. http://www.execpc.com/~skerry/
David Gerard
:#Gothic (EFNET) is an excellent channel. You just gotta know the rules.
Like staying away.
#altgothic is sorta nearly maybe purty much the channel of the newsgroup.
#agsf is the backup in case of weenie attacks.
--
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/ AGSF Unit 0|4 http://suburbia.net/~fun/
Stop JUNK EMAIL Boycott AMAZON.COM http://mickc.home.mindspring.com/index1.htm
"ObQuestion - why is my good friend the Y2K cobol programmer selling all his
goods, buying gold, guns & food and moving his family to a place in the
mountains? And trying to convince me to do the same?" - Tom ONeil
David Gerard
:all this talk of stay away from #gothic..
:and name calling...
:and no mention of [DELETED]?
:I bet he's crying...
:*giggle*
:You're all soft.
:Eileen (doesn't go on #gothic much anymore...but had a nice 3-4 year stay
:there)
It's the Usenet postings of such as [DELETED] that put me off ever trying
it ...
Ron Cecchini
> #altgothic, while painfully, excruciatingly fluffy at times
I defy anyone to show me an IRC channel, or any other chatroom for that matter,
that isn't boring, fluffy, and, ultimately, a monumental waste of time...
][
(who wonders if any of his posts are making it out)
Marcus Pan
Yup...they are.
Marcus Pan
> I defy anyone to show me an IRC channel, or any other chatroom for that matter,
> that isn't boring, fluffy, and, ultimately, a monumental waste of time...
Ask denizens of #altgothic about Wheel Of Goth Tunes. Free memory, hard
drives and what-not isn't a waste of time. :P
Individuat
> It's the Usenet postings of such as [DELETED] that put me off
> ever trying
> it ...
Aw he's not that bad....
Common David...you'll take on the scary CO$ but you won't take on HIM?????
Eileen
Necr0angel
>On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:12:05 -0400, "Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn"
><cpts...@gothic.net> wrote:
>
>:#Gothic (EFNET) is an excellent channel. You just gotta know the rules.
>
>
>Like staying away.
That's always a good idea...the last time I went there I was kick/banned for my
name being spelled "necroangl"(see, IRC Only allows 9 characters....;)) with
the message "learn to spell you fucker". How nice.
Marcus Pan
> That's always a good idea...the last time I went there I was kick/banned for my
> name being spelled "necroangl"(see, IRC Only allows 9 characters....;)) with
> the message "learn to spell you fucker". How nice.
Well, that's what happens when you have a Mallgoth gathering with a
median age of 12.
Skerry Carrie, Quite Contrary!
Cecchini) scribbled in ubergoffick black eyeliner:
>I defy anyone to show me an IRC channel, or any other chatroom for that matter,
>that isn't boring, fluffy, and, ultimately, a monumental waste of time...
#altgothic isn't boring :P Er.. in the wee hours of the morning,
that is. All the fun happens after the kiddies are tucked into bed.
Waste of time? How dare you! *sob*
>(who wonders if any of his posts are making it out)
Nope.
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
like yourself.
- @CptSternn
Marcus Pan wrote in message <35B4FC...@idt.net>...
timmie
and alt.gothic....
> >median age of 12.
then Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn <cpts...@gothic.net> wrote:
> Yeah, we try to keep the mallgoths out. Thats why we kickban so many people
> like yourself.
>
> - @CptSternn
*tag* a.g.. you're it... because of course no one could let such
undeniably uncalled for insults get by without some more mindless
posturing to fan the constant and fairly pointless feud further... could
they?
*sigh*
timmie, sporadic participant in both groups.... and keeping firmly in
mind that it takes a two to perform mating rituals thinly disguised as
synchronised perforance art...
--
** > < slightly trembling with a strange mixture of unadulterated
*** o o glee and inexplicable mind-numbing terror... the squirrel
** x stood firm... his vows memorized soundly...
*/" "\ ... and awaited the arrival of his bride.... :)
David Gerard
:The good Rev. David Gerrard said:
:> It's the Usenet postings of such as [DELETED] that put me off
:> ever trying
:> it ...
:Aw he's not that bad....
:Common David...you'll take on the scary CO$ but you won't take on HIM?????
'take on'? You can nail lime jello to the ceiling only so firmly and no
more. The posts in question spoke pretty thoroughly for themselves - a
clear inability to communicate in a medium where he doesn't wield the /bk,
and gosh it was funny. In a sad and petty sense.
Skerry Carrie, Quite Contrary!
<cpts...@gothic.net> scribbled in ubergoffick black eyeliner:
>Yeah, we try to keep the mallgoths out. Thats why we kickban so many people
>like yourself.
Huh-huh-huh. IRCGoths vs. UsenetGoths. Huh-huh-huh.
How original.
{o}racle
>>From: f...@thingy.apana.org.au (David Gerard)
>
>>On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:12:05 -0400, "Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn"
>><cpts...@gothic.net> wrote:
>>
>>:#Gothic (EFNET) is an excellent channel. You just gotta know the rules.
>>
>>
>>Like staying away.
>
>name being spelled "necroangl"(see, IRC Only allows 9 characters....;)) with
>the message "learn to spell you fucker". How nice.
>
my nickname being "lame" (by someone who's nick was a variation of
"vampire". HA! *I'm* lame?), and once for doing a !seen on a RL friend of mine
who likes that channel for some strange reason. I have also been kicked there
for various STUPID reasons.
Luv,
{o}racle
Narnia
: I defy anyone to show me an IRC channel, or any other chatroom for that matter,
: that isn't boring, fluffy, and, ultimately, a monumental waste of time...
#altgothic.
I've made wonderful friends there (not to mention that's where zastur and I began
talking, and look what happened with that), and it's saved my life on more than on
occasion.
Not at all a waste of time, IMHO.
=Narnia=
http://www.velvet.net
babygoth list/irc/webring admin, #altgothic addict, honorary milgoth
Narnia
: Aw he's not that bad....
<snicker>
Especially after you've seen a picture...
flannel and Pearl Jam, anyone?
Katar Shon-Dranith
">S<"
>honorary milgoth
I must need to go to bed. I thought that was "horny milgoth".
*chuckle*
High Lord Katar Shon-Dranith
--
-Bastard child of the seven moons. ICQ: 12741673 ^-_-^ ^-_-^ ^-_-^ NX74205
"it won't give up it wants me dead, goddamn this noise inside my head" NIN
"And when all is over and we return to dust, who will be my judge and which
one do I trust?" Stone Temple Pilots ~~~>Queen Lowri's clever .sig<~~~
Katar Shon-Dranith
">S<"
>flannel and Pearl Jam, anyone?
OOO! Me me me!
High Lord Katar Shon-Dranith
(loves Pearl Jam and wears flannel during the winter)
Lady Greycat
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn said in a loud stage whisper:
> Yeah, we try to keep the mallgoths out. Thats why we kickban so many people
> like yourself.
No, it's mentalities like this that keep most of the interesting people
out.
So, come on, gimmie another immature and poorly written come back.
"I know you are but what am I?"
Greycat
<rolling her eyes...is this the best you can do? If so, you are sad.>
--
~~~@~~~ Http://members.theglobe.com/ladygreycat ~~~@~~~
HandToForehead Spice
"Black as midnight, black as pitch,
Blacker than the foulest witch"
Greylock
sigh :
>:> ever trying
>:> it ...
>
>:Aw he's not that bad....
>:Common David...you'll take on the scary CO$ but you won't take on HIM?????
Errr.... who?
(H*aydn - as curious as a squirrel)
---H*ydn--- I am the Ghost that reminds Death of you
--->>>> AETHER SANCTUM ISSUE SIX: http://www.goth.org.au
-The Alt.Gothic Frequently Asked Questions: http://www.darkwave.org.uk/faq/ag
- The aus.culture.gothic FAQ at http://www.ooze.net/auscg/
Lady Greycat
(Damoc...@hotmail.com) Greylock said in a loud stage whisper:
>
> (H*aydn - as curious as a squirrel)
Oh damn...that was soo cute!
But I wanna know too. I have no idea who they are talking about...:)
Greycat
Charlotte Ashley
Lady Greycat (LadyG...@infoback.net) writes:
> In article <6p3ahb$alc$1...@winter.news.erols.com>, (cpts...@gothic.net)
> Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn said in a loud stage whisper:
>> Yeah, we try to keep the mallgoths out. Thats why we kickban so many people
>> like yourself.
>
> No, it's mentalities like this that keep most of the interesting people
> out.
>
> So, come on, gimmie another immature and poorly written come back.
>
> "I know you are but what am I?"
Oh, for christ's sake.
WE started it, guys. DOn't go jumping down this guy's throat just 'cause
he's in our turf. If I was in #gothic and they started going on about how
elitist and immature *we* were, I'd have a say too...
And we're not right. Neither would they be.
leanan sidhe
Marcus Pan
>
> like yourself.
Oh, yeah, I'm definitely a mallgoth, yupyup. Sure. <nods head> Gee,
how'd you guess?
(Not even bothering to strike back because, well, isn't it OBVIOUS why
I'm not bothering?)
Jack
Skerry Carrie, Quite Contrary! wrote in message
<6p3s0n$9...@newsops.execpc.com>...
<snip>
>Huh-huh-huh. IRCGoths vs. UsenetGoths. Huh-huh-huh.
>
>How original.
Which is why I have "IRC" and a couple of likely to come up, related
subjects [1] killfiled on alt.gothic.
But silly me, I was checking my killfiles to see if anything anything
worthwhile was getting inadvertently filtered out. And then, sillier me, I
looked in on *this* thread.
From now on, I'm going to trust in my killfile. [2]
[1] About two or three words starting with #.
[2] And stay the fuck away from IRC. [3]
[3] Yeah, I *am* in kind of a pissy mood this morning again. Why do you
ask?
--
-Jack- "Death, it's not just for breakfast anymore."
If you want to avoid getting lost in the spam, send
replies to jack (AT) mari (DOT) net
Lady Greycat
(bi...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) Charlotte Ashley said in a loud stage
whisper:
> WE started it, guys.
I hate to correct you here Charlotte, BUT we didn't go into #gothic and
start saying "Oh well, you guys are all mall rats"
We said it here, in AG, which being most of the people who are here and
go on IRC go to #altgothic.
Besides, Pan has a point, the people in there can be downright assholish
for no reason.
I have never been kicked from #gothic, and you know what? I never will,
because I don't even go in there anymore. I saw how they treated other
people who didn't do a damn thing to them.
DOn't go jumping down this guy's throat just 'cause
> he's in our turf.
Why not? WE didn't invade HIS turf. Understand?
If I was in #gothic and they started going on about how
> elitist and immature *we* were, I'd have a say too...
I could care less what most of the denizens of #gothic think. I mean,
what thoughts they could think up in between trying to get into
everyone's pants and all the self absorbed thought they have.
I can name on one hand the people that I think are interesting and fun to
talk to that go to #gothic. Uhlume and Imperia. That's about it. I
probably forgot a person or two, but that's IT. The channel is a waste of
time, and the people in there are a waste of flesh, for the most part.
And I'm talking about the ops.
>
> And we're not right. Neither would they be.
My OPINION is right...because it's mine, and it's not absolute. And my
OPINION of people in #gothic is that they are nothing more than monkeys
typing.
But it doesn't matter. I stuck up for Pan because I feel Pan is right. If
you have a problem with it Charlotte, then that's your deal. I'm not
going to tell you your aren't correct for having the opinions you do, and
I have every right to express my opinions on the subject.
Oh hell, I don't even get on IRC that much anyway.
cub...@mhv.net
try #music the people are really nice and interesting. good conversation
too. funny as hell sometimes. if you go look for me my nick's cubicle. i'm
there almost every night. i'll introduce you around :)
cubicle
Bio7Flesh
> (H*aydn - as curious as a squirrel)
Oh damn...that was soo cute!
But I wanna know too. I have no idea who they are talking about...:)
Greycat
--
~~~@~~~ Http://members.theglobe.com/ladygreycat ~~~@~~~
HandToForehead Spice
>>
I think it's JIM BOB, Joe Bob, Billy Ray, or some cap like that. I remember
cause he kickbanned me for haveing my own opinion. In otherwords he couldn't
argue what was said so pulled a nazi.
TechroMancer
Thats why i laugh when people say that Alt.Gothic is Eleitist, or stuck up. yea
right.
Tell me is something eluding you, sunshine?
Is this not what you expected to see?
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes
You'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.
ren
>
> EFNET #altgothic. Not as many bursting flames of egotistical
> gother-than-thou attitudes.
Amen Pan! >:)
ren
Ron, is this really about me?
Individuat
> Especially after you've seen a picture...
> flannel and Pearl Jam, anyone?
I'm gonna get blasted by him if he's sees this...but
Richi Cunningham anyone?
Eileen (now going into hiding)
Lady Greycat
(indiv...@aol.com) Individuat said in a loud stage whisper:
> I'm gonna get blasted by him if he's sees this...but
> Richi Cunningham anyone?
If we are talking about who I THINK we are talking about, this is a very
dead on description of him...:)
Greycat
--
~~~@~~~ Http://members.theglobe.com/ladygreycat ~~~@~~~
HandToForehead Spice
"Black as midnight, black as pitch,
Ron Cecchini
> #altgothic.
>
> I've made wonderful friends there
I'm not slamming #ag. (after all, I visit there.)
I'm just saying that: it's all fluffy and it's all time consuming.
As is what I'm doing right now...
> it's saved my life on more than on occasion.
>
> Not at all a waste of time, IMHO.
Well, if you say so.
But the more "serious" discussion happen on the newsgroups.
I really don't think you're going to convince anyone otherwise.
][
(who admits that it definitely has something to do w/ the medium; i.e.
it's hard to have a "serious" discussion when 47 people are all typing
at the same time)
Ron Cecchini
> > that isn't boring, fluffy, and, ultimately, a monumental waste of > time...
>
> Ron, is this really about me?
Oh darn. I was trying to keep that a secret...
<sigh>
Sorry to have to break it to you, Ren, but, yes, you alone are responsible for
99% of the entire Fluff Content on the Internet...
][
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
consider...umm...well, not...
Lady Greycat wrote in message ...
>In article <6p3ahb$alc$1...@winter.news.erols.com>, (cpts...@gothic.net)
>Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn said in a loud stage whisper:
>> Yeah, we try to keep the mallgoths out. Thats why we kickban so many
people
>> like yourself.
>
>No, it's mentalities like this that keep most of the interesting people
>out.
>
>So, come on, gimmie another immature and poorly written come back.
>
>"I know you are but what am I?"
>
>Greycat
><rolling her eyes...is this the best you can do? If so, you are sad.>
Thomas Parkin
> like yourself.
> - @CptSternn
For a flame to be truly effective has to demonstrate some
sort of insight into the thing or person it's flaming. Which is the main
reason why TSM was masterful where so many others, who fall back on new
and admittedly interesting vulgarities, fail. Far less effective than that
is pulling out catch words and applying them on oblvious assumptions.
A
--
++++++++++++++++ I know nothing but the holiness of the hearts affections
and the truth of the imagination.- J. Keats
http://www.drizzle.com/~tparkin
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
-Sternn (Vindicator of #Gothic as well as a few 3rd world countries)
Lady 'I HATE YOU ALL' Greycat wrote in message ...
>In article <6p4lqv$3...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
>(bi...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) Charlotte Ashley said in a loud stage
>time, and the people in there are a waste of flesh, for the most part.
>And I'm talking about the ops.
>My OPINION is right...because it's mine, and it's not absolute. And my
>OPINION of people in #gothic is that they are nothing more than monkeys
>typing.
>
>But it doesn't matter. I stuck up for Pan because I feel Pan is right. If
>you have a problem with it Charlotte, then that's your deal. I'm not
>going to tell you your aren't correct for having the opinions you do, and
>I have every right to express my opinions on the subject.
>
>Oh hell, I don't even get on IRC that much anyway.
>
>Greycat
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
know its not worth 'striking back'.
-Sternn (Bastard. and then some)
Marcus Pan wrote in message <35B5E7...@idt.net>...
>Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, we try to keep the mallgoths out. Thats why we kickban so many
people
>> like yourself.
>
Chijin
Ron Cecchini <Ron.Ce...@GSC.GTE.Com> wrote in article
<Ron.Cecchini-2...@155.95.19.50>...
Yeah, but he makes me shovel!:)
Chijin<8P
little miss stacey
I thought I'd contribute my 2 cents to this little thread. Why? Well, for one, I
myself am an opper on EFnet #gothic. I'm not here to post insulting remarks or
incite further flaming on this topic. I'd just like an opportunity to post my
opinion to you all, which is why we all use Usenet to begin with.
I'm not denying that #gothic has a certain horrid reputation among the net.goth
community. I'm not here to defend it either. Indeed it is filled with some of
the most conservative-minded people around, which is interesting in itself, being
a goth channel, you'd think we're all bleeding-heart liberals. What you must
understand is it is a _very diverse group_ of people, not all of whom are goth,
and even some who are anti-goth. And if you find yourself being kickbanned, its
never for 'no reason'. We have some very good reasons.
I would like to equate it with this newsgroup. How many times do you find
yourself putting a certain subject in your killfile? Are you not tired of the
insanely numerous 'Is ____ Goth?' questions? Have not many of you created
friendships that extend beyond the Usenet medium? What about all the Trolls and
Newbies? Dare I even mention the incessant flaming that occurs? Do they not
irritate you to no end?
Next time you join our channel, please keep in mind that we are just another
clique, such as yourselves. You should also keep in mind that when you are on
IRC, you do not necessarily have the opportunity to post your opinion to
everyone. It is a different medium from Usenet, something that many people
quickly forget.
There are different dynamics to it indeed. You are representing yourself in
realtime. When some newbie joins we see their 8 letter nick and username@host even
before they begin to type anything. That is the first impression and many of us
judge (kick) based upon that. Nicks with alternating cApS or other ascii
[[_^ch4r4ct3rs^_]] are just plain annoying so you must be an annoying person.
Nicks of the cheesegoth type (DarkLord, TheCrow, AnneGwish) are both unoriginal
and silly, meaning you're really not the type of person we want to associate with.
Vampire related nicks are equally unappealing (#vampire down the hall and to the
right). If you survive the nick test, we move on to the communication test. The
difference on IRC from Usenet here is that you need to be able to communicate
intelligently quickly. No time to compose an insightful post. Simple and basic
netiquette will apply in this case. The rule of thumb is to lurk (not too long of
course or we'll kick you for idling) in order to get a feel of the personalities
and the flow of conversation (this applies to both IRC and Usenet). You'll soon
come to realize that for the most part, we do not take IRC seriously. If you have
a serious problem you need to seek professional help, not rant about it to us.
Most of the people on #gothic know each other irl. We do not have an obligation to
entertain you or even accept you into our group. We are just another clique of
people who generally agree with each other. For those of you who are interested,
there is a #gothic survival guide at: http://www.retina.net/~godeater/guide.html
Now as I said above, I'm not here to defend #gothic. I'm simply here to express
my view of things. Coming on our channel and telling us we're all wankers cuz we
kick you or flooding/spamming our channel is not a good way to make friends. Try
being a little diplomatic sometime. If you don't like the way our channel works,
there are numerous other goth channels on IRC (and other irc nets!, #alt.gothic,
#goth, #gothcafe). It's a free medium. We're not forcing you to be on #gothic.
And now for my response to Lady Greycat:
Lady Greycat wrote:
> In article <6p3ahb$alc$1...@winter.news.erols.com>, (cpts...@gothic.net)
>
> No, it's mentalities like this that keep most of the interesting people
> out.
You do realize, of course, that I could say the same about alt.gothic, but why
when it's just another waste of bandwidth?
.s
Lady Greycat
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn said in a loud stage whisper:
> Damn, someone really pissed on your cheerios this morning didn't they?
>
> -Sternn (Vindicator of #Gothic as well as a few 3rd world countries)
You are doing a swell job. Oh so swell. Actually, your replies only prove
my point:
Most of the people on #gothic are nothing but a bunch of witless
imbeciles.
Necr0angel
>And if you find yourself being kickbanned, its
>never for 'no reason'. We have some very good reasons.
Okay, so what's your reason, after I joined, and was kickbanned with the
message "learn to spell you FUCKER!" before I'd even said a word?
I can't wait to hear the explanation.
necroangel, necroangl on IRC due to a 9 letter limit.
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2671
"Peer pressure is what you do to people who are not, in your opinion, peers."
ICQ # 6471503
One of PapaPan's babygoffs
Lady Greycat
(jac...@ix.REMOVETHIS.netcom.com) little miss stacey said in a loud
stage whisper:
>
> when it's just another waste of bandwidth?
No, it's not. We don't "kick" anyone out. We ALWAYS give people chances
to prove us differently. There are alot of people here with some pretty
unimaginative nicks and have said some REALLY stupid trollish crap, and
likewise, been flamed for it, but came back, and proved their ground, and
we gave them that chance. You don't.
I agree that when I'm IRC and see "GoThCHIK3" I get irritated. But I
certainly wouldn't kick them until they started being an idiot. Then it's
free for all. And I have been an op in IRC, and I never kick banned
anyone for a stupid nick.
This is not a "clique" or a "club" no one has to be "soo cool" to join
here. I'm actually GLAD that this place doesn't have an ops system where
you can kick everyone you don't like out, the abuse of power would become
overwhelming.
And if this place EVER became as cliquish and childish as #gothic is, I
will leave this medium as I have pretty much left IRC. I will not
tolerate crap like that, and I won't be involved with it either.
But fortunately, our median age here is around 23 or so, unlike #gothic
which is in it's teens.
And besides, I really would like to know who came into #gothic and said
"You guys are weenies for kicking people for their nicks"? Because that
person is just as bad as you guys coming in here to "defend your honor".
And BTW...It doesn't take alot of time to write an insightful post. How I
talk here is how I talk in RL and IRC, off the top of my head. <As it is
apparent in some of my postings> there is no special talent to write
here, you just have to possess a quick wit.
Lady Greycat
(midn...@goth.org) Midnight said in a loud stage whisper:
> Thomas Parkin <tpa...@drizzle.com> trired to write:
> [...]
> > For a flame to be truly effective has to demonstrate some
> > sort of insight into the thing or person it's flaming.
>
> to save their lives, let alone an effective flame.
If that wasn't coherent, maybe you should go back to school.
Usually, they
> try to cover it up by:
>
> 1) Dropping names and kissing up,
>
> > Which is the main reason why TSM was masterful
That was not dropping names. It is well known that TSM is a masterful
flame maker, and has awed many by his wonderfully witty retorts.
>
> 2) Using big words that they saw in school, and
>
> > where so many others, who fall back on new
> > and admittedly interesting vulgarities, fail.
If any of these are "big words" you REALLY need to take a refresher basic
English course. Honestly. Is your vocabulary so limited? How sad.
>
> 3) Trying to string them together into sentences that look
> awfully pretentious, but somehow fail to make any sense at
> all, in any language known to humanity.
>
> > Far less effective than that
> > is pulling out catch words and applying them on oblvious assumptions.
Again, proving you need to go back to school. I looked for what you were
talking about, and well, I could read it. Maybe you can't, that's too
bad.
>
> But, of course, those kind of people are only evil irc trash,
> and would never stain the ivory towers of usenet.
How funny, since alot of people here are on IRC.
Please, before you TRY and flame someone, come up with some facts, ok?
Go back and play on your channel where you are considered a god by weak
minded fools.
Greycat
<I'd at least hoped that Juliet could come to AG and stand up for
#gothic, at least she can do it in such a way that would prove that
people on #gothic aren't all bad. Juliet!? Where are you?>
Lady Greycat
(nau...@pixie.net) timmie said in a loud stage whisper:
> Necr0angel <necr0...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> or should we begin to hold all a.g posters now personally responsable
> for _every_ flame that appears... because... of course... we can all
> control what every single poster does... and can go back and take back
> every single mistake or hutfulness that's ever been done to anyone...
No, but at least here you are allowed to retort. It's really almost
EXPECTED for people to retort. There, you can't even get a word in
because someone thinks it'd be cool to power trip. It's almost like a
form of censorship, and reminds me MUCH of high school.
This is one of the reasons I avoid IRC for the most part. And when I do
go on IRC, I tend to only go to #altgothic, because people tend to be a
bit more mature about things.
> timmie, getting bored...
So am I. None of the #gothic people have come back with anything good
YET. I'm about ready to killfile the whole thread, just so I don't have
to see their very lame attempts at flaming, tho I have to say that little
miss stacey has made a better point than the rest, since she was coherent
and tried to explain her side. I'll give her points for that.
Greycat
Pariahic
<35B66E2A...@ix.REMOVETHIS.netcom.com>...
>And if you find yourself being kickbanned, its
>never for 'no reason'. We have some very good reasons.
>
>yourself putting a certain subject in your killfile?
Not to take away from the rest of your point, but comparing a killfile to a
kick/ban is hardly fair.
A killfile limits what *you* see.
A kick/ban limits what *they* can say.
You are www.primenet.com/~bkern
What you do ICQ: 879171
When it counts. Pariah(-ic)
-The Masao
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
patrons for attacking others.
Witless imbeciles? Hrmmm.....immature, vindictive, and assholish (is that a
word?) maybe, but definitely not witless imbeciles. Witless imbeciles don't
make six figures a year.
Lady Greycat wrote in message ...
>In article <6p5lg5$h07$1...@winter.news.erols.com>, (cpts...@gothic.net)
>Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn said in a loud stage whisper:
>> Damn, someone really pissed on your cheerios this morning didn't they?
>>
>> -Sternn (Vindicator of #Gothic as well as a few 3rd world countries)
>
>You are doing a swell job. Oh so swell. Actually, your replies only prove
>my point:
>
>Most of the people on #gothic are nothing but a bunch of witless
>imbeciles.
>
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
reading it a few times it made sense (even though it was wrong). If you
really want to be particular there are more grammatical errors in that
paragraph than I care to point out. I think thetas what they were saying
before your jumped down their throat.
>For a flame to be truly effective has to demonstrate some sort of insight
into the thing or person it's flaming.
What has to? 'It' has to? Is 'it' the preposition that is eluding the keen
diction of this profound author?
>Which is the main reason why TSM was masterful where so many others, who
fall back on newand admittedly interesting vulgarities, fail.
Why TSM was masterful? Come on now, just look at that sentence. Don't even
make me point out those errors...
>Far less effective than thatis pulling out catch words and applying them
on oblvious assumptions
What was 'far less effective'? If you plan on making references to prior
events or nouns, please include them or at least a nice pronoun (hey, theres
one called 'it' that seems to be giving you alot of problems. Try looking
'it' up - no pun intended). I'll also leave the 'than thatis' phrase alone
as well (I'm Captain Sternn, not Captain obvious - I'll let you figure that
one out).
My point being yes, if I took the time to decipher this poorly constructed
paragraph (which someone obviously, and alas, unfortunately, attempted to
write in a 'sophisticated' manner) you could see that it did have some what
of a point. I think.
-Sternn
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
little miss stacey wrote in message
<35B66E2A...@ix.REMOVETHIS.netcom.com>...
>Hello,
>I thought I'd contribute my 2 cents to this little thread. Why? Well, for
one, I
>myself am an opper on EFnet #gothic. I'm not here to post insulting remarks
or
>incite further flaming on this topic. I'd just like an opportunity to post
my
>opinion to you all, which is why we all use Usenet to begin with.
>
>I'm not denying that #gothic has a certain horrid reputation among the
net.goth
>community. I'm not here to defend it either. Indeed it is filled with
some of
>the most conservative-minded people around, which is interesting in itself,
being
>a goth channel, you'd think we're all bleeding-heart liberals. What you
must
>understand is it is a _very diverse group_ of people, not all of whom are
goth,
>and even some who are anti-goth. And if you find yourself being kickbanned,
its
>never for 'no reason'. We have some very good reasons.
>
>I would like to equate it with this newsgroup. How many times do you find
>You do realize, of course, that I could say the same about alt.gothic, but
why
>when it's just another waste of bandwidth?
>
>.s
>
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
rain? Why ask why?
Necr0angel wrote in message
<199807222325...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>>From: little miss stacey <jac...@ix.REMOVETHIS.netcom.com>
Daednu
<SNIP>
> and even some who are anti-goth. And if you find yourself being kickbanned, its
> never for 'no reason'. We have some very good reasons.
No, I was banned for *no* reason. That is why I felt so horrible. I
hadn't even said anything! And when I came back and tried again, I was
asked an opinion. I gave a noncommittal answer and was banned with a msg
saying "Don't disagree with me when I'm in a bad mood, fucker". It just
got worse from there.
*Daednu
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ "This one is going to have a mind of her own" ~
~ #(don't forget to take out the NOSPAM from my addy)# ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marcus Pan
> patrons for attacking others.
Here you are allowed to reply though and we will read it. We may bitch
back and not like it, but we WILL give you a chance to say something
intelligible back. On #gothic, the moment you open your mouth in reply
to someone that in any way violates their "opinions," you are banned
from the channel and have no way of replying. Someone called it
"Hitleresque."
That's my beef. Can you explain that?
> Witless imbeciles? Hrmmm.....immature, vindictive, and assholish (is that a
> word?)
It's Usenet's poetic license. :) Feel free to wordplay your ass off so
long as it's understandable...which it was.
> maybe, but definitely not witless imbeciles.
Yeah, well, maybe you're not a witless imbecile. Even here you've made
a point above. But how are we to know if where kick/banned without
given a chance to find out, hmm?
Witless imbeciles don't
> make six figures a year.
Oh no? For your review, Exhibit A: Marilyn Manson.
P.S. On all the above points I've brought up, I'd be interested in
hearing a reply. No, not a flame, a real serious reply. This, as you
can tell, wasn't a flame. :)
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
was that accurate, it basically summed up everything that hasn't been said
so far. Everyone can get an idea where everyone else stands by reading that
message. With that knowledge, all controversy could be ended.
Of course don't let this discourage anyone from flaming me personally, I'm
still an asshole either way...
-Sternn (Asshole extraordinary)
(The key word there is personally - my point being #Gothic people are
actually nice. Well, most of them. Excluding at least two (including
myself). Not naming names. Lets call the other one UJ.)
<smirk>
timmie wrote in message <1998072302...@frippish.demon.co.uk>...
>Necr0angel <necr0...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> >From: nau...@pixie.net (timmie)
>>
>> >did you leave a.g for good when someone flamed you for no good reason
>> >necroangel?...
>>
>> When i get flamed there's always a good reason(read: i'm being the usual
>> bitch;)), unless it's a troll trying to insult me...in fact that happened
>> today actually..i think his name was "walter"
>
>but that's the point...
>
>OK... become for a moment someone from #gothic..
>
>you're on a channel which advertises to the whole of efnet that "hey..
>we're goths talking about gothy things... just like a.g does to usenet..
>
>you get every idiot redneck/looser/sad wannabee/crow clone appearing and
>wanting to say their two cents worth... just like on a.g
>
>after a while you see the patters forming.. for a.g you see the posting
>names.. the intro post.. and sometimes the service provider as a clue..
>for #gothic it's usually just the nick and the first few words...
>
>on a.g the "tempramentally challenged" regulars get in early with a
>generic name flame or a "shut up about stinking vampires" flame before
>someone with a slightly more level head slaps the with an FAQ and
>re-educates them... _THEN_ you get to decide if their just a troll... on
>#gothic those who are mildly sick of the "fuck you gothics" and "MM i$
>s00 K3wl" idiots will effectively flame by kicking or kick/banning
>before anyone else has had a chance to evaluate whether nick necroangl
>was just a passing looser or a genuine interesting person.. if they're
>persistant often they'll find the ban removed after a little bit... if
>not.. well.. usually they're long gone... no second chance to say "oops
>we were wrong about you" as there is in usenet...
>
>same idiot trolls to both groups.. different methods defined by the
>limitations/strengths of the medium to counter it..
>
>it IS different.. it can't be judged by the same standards... but it
>only takes one kickban to make the whole group seem like ogres it
>seems...
>
>anyway.. i've ranted... i'm not cross.. i just think everyone's being
>silly.. and i don't like mutual friends badmouthed offline either...
>
>timmie, better now... :)
>
>
>--
>** > < slightly trembling with a strange mixture of unadulterated
>*** o o glee and inexplicable mind-numbing terror... the squirrel
> ** x stood firm... his vows memorized soundly...
> */" "\ ... and awaited the arrival of his bride.... :)
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
Lady Greycat wrote in message ...
>In article <35B66E2A...@ix.REMOVETHIS.netcom.com>, >No, it's not. We
don't "kick" anyone out. We ALWAYS give people chances
>to prove us differently.
>This is not a "clique" or a "club" no one has to be "soo cool" to join
>here. I'm actually GLAD that this place doesn't have an ops system where
>you can kick everyone you don't like out, the abuse of power would become
>overwhelming.
Really? You could have fooled me. The infinate number of references to the
A.G. people as compared to the #Gothic people were just references to what
bandwidth they use, not their 'clique' I guess, eh? Your just glad they
don't have ops here that could set the newgroup to +m when you start typing.
>And if this place EVER became as cliquish and childish as #gothic is, I
>will leave this medium as I have pretty much left IRC. I will not
>tolerate crap like that, and I won't be involved with it either.
Too late.
>But fortunately, our median age here is around 23 or so, unlike #gothic
>which is in it's teens.
Teens? Where do you guys keep getting that idea from? Just because some of
us may act immature (like many people here I might add) doesn't mean we are
in our teens. In fact, having personally met many ops from #Gothic (I make
it a habit to travel all over the world doing this every few months) I have
found the majority of people there are well over 22. Most are professionals
in their various fields as well (maybe you should check out some of their
homepages before 'assuming' anything).
>And besides, I really would like to know who came into #gothic and said
>"You guys are weenies for kicking people for their nicks"? Because that
>person is just as bad as you guys coming in here to "defend your honor".
At last we have a point to agree on. I have an idea, lets gang up and beat
the bastard when we find him or her.
>And BTW...It doesn't take alot of time to write an insightful post. How I
>talk here is how I talk in RL and IRC, off the top of my head. <As it is
>apparent in some of my postings> there is no special talent to write
>here, you just have to possess a quick wit.
>
That explains alot. So what your saying is, well, I'll leave that one alone
too... :)
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
Skerry Carrie, Quite Contrary! wrote in message
<6p66i9$a...@newsops.execpc.com>...
>On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 07:17:12 -0700, LadyG...@infoback.net (Lady
>Greycat) scribbled in ubergoffick black eyeliner:
>
>>I have never been kicked from #gothic, and you know what? I never will,
>>because I don't even go in there anymore. I saw how they treated other
>>people who didn't do a damn thing to them.
>
>I've heard that being kicked from #gothic is an initiation
>of sorts. Damn near everyone gets kicked a few times at
>some point.
>
>Except me. :(
>
>Uhlume had to give me a mercy kickban just so I would
>feel worthy. :(
>
>Carrie (kickmeeee)
>
> How Do You Know,
> I Won't Hurt You?
> Your Flesh Feels So Good
> In My Mouth, In My Teeth. http://www.execpc.com/~skerry/
Jed Clampett
> On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:05:36 -0700, LadyG...@infoback.net (Lady
> Greycat) scribbled in ubergoffick black eyeliner:
>
> >In article <199807221751...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> >(indiv...@aol.com) Individuat said in a loud stage whisper:
> >> I'm gonna get blasted by him if he's sees this...but
> >> Richi Cunningham anyone?
*cough*
> HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH!$#
>
> >If we are talking about who I THINK we are talking about, this is a very
> >dead on description of him...:)
Yes, we know *he* is balding with red hair and lots of freckles, also
an accomplished director.
He is all things you want him to be. :P
> DO NOT INVOKE THE NAME!
>
> If yew bash him he will cum (for he likes that sort of thing).
Run, Skerry, Run!
Muahahaha, you have woken HIM.
Jed Clampett
>
> skerry shouted out:
> > DO NOT INVOKE THE NAME!
>
> > If yew bash him he will cum (for he likes that sort of thing).
>
> happily I consider him a friendly aquaintence and he took it with good
> humor....
> I mean...um...he bitched me out....and I still fear the wrath of Uxclx Jxd.
Ya know, Eileen, I'm still amazed by the atmosphere in usenet,
especially
here in a.g. As you and I chatted about on that evil medium known as
irc, the misperceptions that both IRC and a.g goths have are that each
are exclusively on the side of the Right and the others are the chosen
ones of evil and immaturity. Watching the pedantic flames of the dear
grey cat girl makes me think "gee, a 13 year old out of control with
her black lipstick smears all over the keyboard." Yet, I'm sure an
a.g person wandering onto irc seeing me in #gothic thinks "Oh god, a
hitleresque dictator with delusions of goddom." Not that I won't
dispute
the accuracy of either statement, but there you are.
Anyhow, here is my "wrath." Feel free to flame me, that's all that
is done here in usenet anyhow. Just as how on IRC all we do is kick
you for absolutely no reason, especially when *gasp* you misspell your
nickname! Damn those 9 character limits, it's not like any of us would
know about that! Oh, and don't bother to come to #gothic and actually
see for yourself with open eyes, it's too difficult. Just sit back and
comfort yourself in your troll ratings and killfiles. That's about all
of
an on-line reality as seemingly some of you can handle. Not you, of
course,
Eileen, you're just a royal bitch =)
Boi boi!
UncleJed
Jed Clampett
>
> (The key word there is personally - my point being #Gothic people are
> actually nice. Well, most of them. Excluding at least two (including
> myself). Not naming names. Lets call the other one UJ.)
I hate that UJ guy. Damned oppressor.
*sigh* when will alt.gothic returns to its normally peaceful realm of
empty-minded troll-ratings and discussions over the latest trends in
headstone decor...
Jed Clampett
>
> that skarry uncle jed dude wrote:
>
> > Yes, we know *he* is balding with red hair and lots of freckles, > also
> > an accomplished director.
> > He is all things you want him to be. :P
>
> you're balding?
> I know I haven't seen you in two years....but damn....that was unexpected.
> *smirk*
Dear, as far as I know, Ron Howard is very bald, with just wisps of his
red hair left. I thought we were talking about dear ol' Opie here, not
me!
timmie
> In article <6p4lqv$3...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
> (bi...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) Charlotte Ashley said in a loud stage
> whisper:
> > WE started it, guys.
>
> I hate to correct you here Charlotte, BUT we didn't go into #gothic and
> start saying "Oh well, you guys are all mall rats"
and of course.. if we bitch about something here.. in this private
little newsgroup... it'll _never_ever_ get out to those who we're
bitching about...
just like when offline huh?
sorry... charlotte's right.. a.g started it when it dropped to
namecalling
> We said it here, in AG, which being most of the people who are here and
> go on IRC go to #altgothic.
most?.. ?
i go to both... and i've seen plenty of other a.g regulars or former
regulars on #gothic...
> Besides, Pan has a point, the people in there can be downright assholish
> for no reason.
and a.g is never ever assholish just because someone comes on here
without knowing the rules are we?... no... we're always impeccably
polite and point out carefully and gently that perhaps x, y and z (and
especially v) aren't welcome here... then follow it up by engaging in
witty and entertaining conversations to make them feel at home...
... of course.... that's how it always happens ... i forgot...
> I have never been kicked from #gothic, and you know what? I never will,
> because I don't even go in there anymore. I saw how they treated other
> people who didn't do a damn thing to them.
> DOn't go jumping down this guy's throat just 'cause
> > he's in our turf.
>
> Why not? WE didn't invade HIS turf. Understand?
without meaning to point out the obvious... he is an ag lurker... this
is his turf... and we're insulting his hometown... ditto to me and a
place i like and feel comfortable...
*sigh*
> If I was in #gothic and they started going on about how
> > elitist and immature *we* were, I'd have a say too...
>
> I could care less what most of the denizens of #gothic think. I mean,
> what thoughts they could think up in between trying to get into
> everyone's pants and all the self absorbed thought they have.
like me?.. i'm a denizin... and i thank you for your very delicate and
polite description of me...
snippedy...
timmie, rather... put out.
Midnight
> sort of insight into the thing or person it's flaming.
And then there are those who can't construct a coherent sentence
to save their lives, let alone an effective flame. Usually, they
try to cover it up by:
1) Dropping names and kissing up,
> Which is the main reason why TSM was masterful
2) Using big words that they saw in school, and
> where so many others, who fall back on new
> and admittedly interesting vulgarities, fail.
3) Trying to string them together into sentences that look
awfully pretentious, but somehow fail to make any sense at
all, in any language known to humanity.
> Far less effective than that
> is pulling out catch words and applying them on oblvious assumptions.
But, of course, those kind of people are only evil irc trash,
and would never stain the ivory towers of usenet.
-D
[World's problems linked to EFNET. Film at 11.]
---
Midnight
midn...@goth.org
.sig on strike for higher wages, less microsoft.
http://free.like.it/~midnight/
timmie
> (H*aydn - as curious as a squirrel)
Oh but haydn... *spookyshiftyeyethingy* ...the squirrels know all!
timmie, but we're not telling nuttin... *groan*
timmie
> >From: little miss stacey <jac...@ix.REMOVETHIS.netcom.com>
>
> >And if you find yourself being kickbanned, its
> >never for 'no reason'. We have some very good reasons.
>
> Okay, so what's your reason, after I joined, and was kickbanned with the
> message "learn to spell you FUCKER!" before I'd even said a word?
did you leave a.g for good when someone flamed you for no good reason
necroangel?...
or should we begin to hold all a.g posters now personally responsable
for _every_ flame that appears... because... of course... we can all
control what every single poster does... and can go back and take back
every single mistake or hutfulness that's ever been done to anyone...
... just like real life (and why does everyone persist in thinking
people so very very different online?)...
> I can't wait to hear the explanation.
Oh.. sorry?... was it her who kick/banned you directly?.. in which case
<timmie rubs his hands with glee at the joy of saying this> please take
your personal battles to email....
:)
*sigh*
have we had enough of this yet now?
timmie, getting bored...
Necr0angel
>did you leave a.g for good when someone flamed you for no good reason
>necroangel?...
When i get flamed there's always a good reason(read: i'm being the usual
bitch;)), unless it's a troll trying to insult me...in fact that happened today
actually..i think his name was "walter"
necroangel
timmie
> >From: nau...@pixie.net (timmie)
>
> >did you leave a.g for good when someone flamed you for no good reason
> >necroangel?...
>
> When i get flamed there's always a good reason(read: i'm being the usual
> bitch;)), unless it's a troll trying to insult me...in fact that happened
> today actually..i think his name was "walter"
but that's the point...
timmie, better now... :)
timmie
> In article <1998072301...@frippish.demon.co.uk>,
> (nau...@pixie.net) timmie said in a loud stage whisper:
> > Necr0angel <necr0...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > or should we begin to hold all a.g posters now personally responsable
> > for _every_ flame that appears... because... of course... we can all
> > control what every single poster does... and can go back and take back
> > every single mistake or hutfulness that's ever been done to anyone...
>
> No, but at least here you are allowed to retort. It's really almost
> EXPECTED for people to retort. There, you can't even get a word in
> because someone thinks it'd be cool to power trip. It's almost like a
> form of censorship, and reminds me MUCH of high school.
what about rejoining the channel?... autojoin even... and if you're
banned you can always mssg someone nicely and ask it removed...
but my complaint was because you were asking her to account personally
for every idiot who wanders on there and manage to convince someone they
should be opped (not hard) ... the idiots who are on a.g don't have and
can't get that kind of power... but yes.. it happens... ppl get kicked
by idiots on the channel... just as ppl get flamed by idiots here
sometimes when they don't deserve it... unfortunately the right to reply
is taken away... but that's a property of IRC... not of #gothic..
> This is one of the reasons I avoid IRC for the most part. And when I do
> go on IRC, I tend to only go to #altgothic, because people tend to be a
> bit more mature about things.
<shrug>.. i still like both.. they just have different moods... but then
again.. i think i've only ever been kicked once... and that was by leo
:)
> > timmie, getting bored...
>
> So am I. None of the #gothic people have come back with anything good
> YET. I'm about ready to killfile the whole thread, just so I don't have
> to see their very lame attempts at flaming, tho I have to say that little
> miss stacey has made a better point than the rest, since she was coherent
> and tried to explain her side. I'll give her points for that.
and me?.. i'm as much a #gothic person as i am an a.g person...
admit it.. stacy presented plenty of valid and sensible points...which
actually make a lot of sense... but the others are doing excactly what
the a.g flamers are doing... macho posturing because they can't let the
other side win... (admittedly the a.g are doing it better... but heck..
they're much more used to the style so they don't look so much like
trolls .. :) )
timmie, posturing himself... with his big manly chest... *giggle*
Karasuhebi
>but that's the point...
how can it be the point when i'm booted out before i have time to type
anything?:P
anyway, i'm sick of this.
necroangel
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/2671
Gothcode '98: sRPbba5faSaGccbaGbaa65ezZSPZWzuajubZaZae3
HaeLb7c5aGG5mayaL##yycKNdaScsavok2baasNbecSPCHblOacbiusWI
Just necroangel again...shut up, i know it's the third screen name :P
Skerry Carrie, Quite Contrary!
Greycat) scribbled in ubergoffick black eyeliner:
>I have never been kicked from #gothic, and you know what? I never will,
>because I don't even go in there anymore. I saw how they treated other
>people who didn't do a damn thing to them.
I've heard that being kicked from #gothic is an initiation
Skerry Carrie, Quite Contrary!
Greycat) scribbled in ubergoffick black eyeliner:
>In article <199807221751...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
>(indiv...@aol.com) Individuat said in a loud stage whisper:
>> I'm gonna get blasted by him if he's sees this...but
>> Richi Cunningham anyone?
HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAH!$#
>If we are talking about who I THINK we are talking about, this is a very
>dead on description of him...:)
DO NOT INVOKE THE NAME!
If yew bash him he will cum (for he likes that sort of thing).
Carrie (askingforit)
Individuat
> I've heard that being kicked from #gothic is an initiation
> of sorts.
*laugh*
I think it's more like "fuck them if they can't take a joke."
Eileen (got kicked off #gothic tonight for calling Bile a meanie *giggle*)
-----
"1500 years...1500 years...burning witches, burning books,
burning babies, burning everything that's sacred."
-Tori Amos
Indiv...@aol.com //www.students.uiuc.edu/~orzoff
---
Individuat
> DO NOT INVOKE THE NAME!
> If yew bash him he will cum (for he likes that sort of thing).
*laugh* yes...I got email from HIM today *giggle*
happily I consider him a friendly aquaintence and he took it with good
humor....
I mean...um...he bitched me out....and I still fear the wrath of Uxclx Jxd.
I quiver in me pointy toe boots
*giggle*
Eileen
Leonora the Lonely KittenLady
nau...@pixie.net (timmie) dared to write:
><shrug>.. i still like both.. they just have different moods... but then
>again.. i think i've only ever been kicked once... and that was by leo
>:)
that was a love kick ;> i do it when i get bored
*** Raphrat has been kicked from #altgothic (HI!)
-Leonora (Mistress of All Evil & Goddess Material :)
--
a hairpin decision falls against the brain
to formulate the anguish and alleviate the pain
Alt.Gothic.Crown.Princess Member-Alt.Gothic.Arrogant.Bastards
http://www.kittenlady.com we...@kittenlady.com ICQ UIN 1962098
JuJu Ben
><<
>> (H*aydn - as curious as a squirrel)
>
>Oh damn...that was soo cute!
<snip>
>But I wanna know too. I have no idea who they are talking about...:)
>
>I think it's JIM BOB, Joe Bob, Billy Ray, or some cap like that. I remember
>cause he kickbanned me for haveing my own opinion. In otherwords he couldn't
>argue what was said so pulled a nazi.
<Looks through thread>
Someone by the name of "Uncle Jed" whatever that means.
Ben
JuJu_Ben*SPAM*@geocities.com
"Beware of stupid people in large numbers."
-anon.
Skerry Carrie, Quite Contrary!
Greycat) scribbled in ubergoffick black eyeliner:
>I agree that when I'm IRC and see "GoThCHIK3" I get irritated. But I
>certainly wouldn't kick them until they started being an idiot.
*** GoThCHIK3 has been kicked by skerry (lame nick kick)
>And if this place EVER became as cliquish and childish as #gothic is, I
>will leave this medium as I have pretty much left IRC. I will not
>tolerate crap like that, and I won't be involved with it either.
Okay.. this is getting a _little_ out of hand.
The 2 people from #gothic (one has been posting, one is
He That Shall Not Be Invoked) that have been discussed
were very polite to me on IRC. I was approached by them,
in a _friendly_manner_. I have been watching the conversation
on #gothic for about 10 minutes now, not really saying anything
(as I've nothing to contribute to the discussion), and I have not
been kicked, ragged on, or bothered once.
The two individuals I mentioned above seem to be taking this
in good spirits, and see this as all in good fun. It is a pity
that others are taking it so seriously.
Individuat
> Ya know, Eileen, I'm still amazed by the atmosphere in usenet,
> especially
> here in a.g.
Why thank you.... we are pretty amazing.
> As you and I chatted about on that evil medium known as
> irc,
Hush...you wanna ruin my reputation? IT'S A LIE..I NEVER TALKED TO UNCLE JED
ON IRC...I SWEAR!!!
> the misperceptions that both IRC and a.g goths have are that each
> are exclusively on the side of the Right and the others are the
> chosen
> ones of evil and immaturity. Watching the pedantic flames of
> the dear
> grey cat girl makes me think "gee, a 13 year old out of control
> with
> her black lipstick smears all over the keyboard."
wooboy... I ain't touchin' this one with a ten foot pole.
> Yet, I'm sure an
>a.g person wandering onto irc seeing me in #gothic thinks "Oh
> god, a
> hitleresque dictator with delusions of goddom." Not that I won't
> dispute
> the accuracy of either statement, but there you are.
But UJ...you pride yourself on that title. It's true though...without really
knowing who you're talking about...and just catching a breif glimpse....it's
very hard to really get a feel for anyone on either medium.
I mean...sure, I thought you were a heartless bastard....for a long time....but
lately I think you're kinda keen.
There are also people who it took a LONG time to warm up to on alt.gothic.
I think part of the problem is that we all bitch about each other so
much....that people go onto efnet #gothic thinking bad things to begin with...
thin skins don't help either.
> Anyhow, here is my "wrath." Feel free to flame me, that's all
> that
> is done here in usenet anyhow.
*flame* just cause you asked so nicely.
And it's only ...what...90 degrees where you are right now? (notice how nicely
i'm protecting your privacy?)
> Just as how on IRC all we do is kick
> you for absolutely no reason, especially when *gasp* you
> misspell your
> nickname! Damn those 9 character limits, it's not like any of us > would
> know about that!
#gothic is not scary....if you have a reallllly good sense of humor. Hell when
I first went on there...I got kicked all the time... I was a freshman in
college....I was computer illiterate.... but I stuck it out....and *whisper*
It's really NOT all that scary anymore...just kinda boring....cause I don't
know most of the new people in there anymore.
> Oh, and don't bother to come to #gothic and actually
> see for yourself with open eyes, it's too difficult.
Actually UJ...you haven't been on that much this summer....at least not when I
am. That isn't saying much cause I don't irc as much as I once did.
> Just sit back > and
> comfort yourself in your troll ratings and killfiles. That's about > all
> of
> an on-line reality as seemingly some of you can handle.
Now now UJ let's not get snippy....you were doing so well...
> Not you, of
> course,
> Eileen, you're just a royal bitch =)
Ya know....I like you more and more all the time.
Flattery will get you everywhere.
> Boi boi!
Oh mai!!! ( i miss nisa)
> UncleJed
You're so famous! How's that oil rig?
Individuat
> Yes, we know *he* is balding with red hair and lots of freckles, > also
> an accomplished director.
> He is all things you want him to be. :P
Jed....
you're balding?
I know I haven't seen you in two years....but damn....that was unexpected.
*smirk*
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
in the real world.
Individuat wrote in message
<199807230428...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
>But UJ...sure, I thought you were a heartless bastard....for a long
time....but
>lately I think you're kinda keen.
>
ellis d. suffuse
actually taking the time to worry over this..instead of sharpening that 20$
stick of eyeliner you bought on your mommies' credit card.. or better yet!
trying to squeeze your fat ass into those vinyl pants you just KNEW you
shouldn't have bought..
Patheticness is law. Kiss the goat!
Ellis "who'd rather be trolling #vampyre_sex" D. Suffuse
Jed Clampett
>
> That scary uncle jed wrote:
>
> > Ya know, Eileen, I'm still amazed by the atmosphere in usenet,
> > especially
> > here in a.g.
>
> Why thank you.... we are pretty amazing.
Yes, I'm overjoyed to be in your midst.
> > As you and I chatted about on that evil medium known as
> > irc,
>
> Hush...you wanna ruin my reputation? IT'S A LIE..I NEVER TALKED TO
> UNCLE JED ON IRC...I SWEAR!!!
Just tell them I tried to kill you or something *grin*
> > the misperceptions that both IRC and a.g goths have are that each
> > are exclusively on the side of the Right and the others are the
> > chosen
> > ones of evil and immaturity. Watching the pedantic flames of
> > the dear
> > grey cat girl makes me think "gee, a 13 year old out of control
> > with
> > her black lipstick smears all over the keyboard."
>
> wooboy... I ain't touchin' this one with a ten foot pole.
Good thing I carry a cane.
> > Yet, I'm sure an
> >a.g person wandering onto irc seeing me in #gothic thinks "Oh
> > god, a
> > hitleresque dictator with delusions of goddom." Not that I won't
> > dispute
> > the accuracy of either statement, but there you are.
>
> But UJ...you pride yourself on that title. It's true though...without
> really knowing who you're talking about...and just catching a breif > glimpse....it's
> very hard to really get a feel for anyone on either medium.
> I mean...sure, I thought you were a heartless bastard....for a long > time....but lately I think you're kinda keen.
*shudder* :P
Just my point though. These rush to judgments here on #gothic is
ludicrous. Especially when the soft-skinned find the notion of being
kicked to equal murder and bans to be genocide. It's just absurd.
The cat-brained idea that a ban oppresses expression is also absurd
as it just removes a nuisance from a shared medium that has a ruling
hierarchy. And I laugh when I hear the argument that a.g doesn't take
similar actions, sure, a killfile is local, but I've seen the
"triumphant"
powerhorses here brag about how they emailed such and such's admin and
demanded that "troll's account be yanked," yadda yadda yadda.
Bans are temporary, more fleeting than a killfile. The average ban
lasts for a few hours. How long does that killfile last? Or that
"stomping down on the troll's ISP?" Let's have a reality check here.
> There are also people who it took a LONG time to warm up to on alt.gothic.
> I think part of the problem is that we all bitch about each other so
> much....that people go onto efnet #gothic thinking bad things to begin
> with...thin skins don't help either.
I don't doubt it. #gothic has its own initiation for sure, it's not
for the weak-hearted. The same can easily be said here. And I don't
think that's a bad thing. We're not pretending to be in kindergarten on
IRC or on usenet.
> > Anyhow, here is my "wrath." Feel free to flame me, that's all
> > that
> > is done here in usenet anyhow.
>
> *flame* just cause you asked so nicely.
You always aim to please, Eileen.
> And it's only ...what...90 degrees where you are right now? (notice how
> nicely i'm protecting your privacy?)
I don't actually exist, do I???? :>
> > Just as how on IRC all we do is kick
> > you for absolutely no reason, especially when *gasp* you
> > misspell your
> > nickname! Damn those 9 character limits, it's not like any of us > would
> > know about that!
>
> #gothic is not scary....if you have a reallllly good sense of humor. Hell
> when I first went on there...I got kicked all the time... I was a freshman
> in college....I was computer illiterate.... but I stuck it out....and
> *whisper* It's really NOT all that scary anymore...just kinda > boring....cause I don't
> know most of the new people in there anymore.
God I'm feeling old. We've known each other for so long now.
> > Oh, and don't bother to come to #gothic and actually
> > see for yourself with open eyes, it's too difficult.
>
> Actually UJ...you haven't been on that much this summer....at least not
> when I am. That isn't saying much cause I don't irc as much as I once
> did.
Shocking how there is such a thing as life off of the Internet *grin*
Anyhow, you keep on hanging out in that infidel channel #altgothic from
what I'm told, leenie, tsk tsk!
> > Just sit back > and
> > comfort yourself in your troll ratings and killfiles. That's about > all
> > of
> > an on-line reality as seemingly some of you can handle.
>
> Now now UJ let's not get snippy....you were doing so well...
Hey I'm just a cuddly lovable old man with an incontinence problem.
> > Not you, of
> > course,
> > Eileen, you're just a royal bitch =)
>
> Ya know....I like you more and more all the time.
> Flattery will get you everywhere.
Uh oh! :P
> > Boi boi!
>
> Oh mai!!! ( i miss nisa)
I saw nisa on sunday! we had lunch, so much fun!
> > UncleJed
>
> You're so famous! How's that oil rig?
Still making me millions :)
> Eileen
Bitch! Heee heee!
UncleJed
Jed Clampett
>
> UncleJed is a buttpipe.
Gee, I knew I wouldn't be disappointed by the sharp wit here.
UJ the transmission part.
Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn
See - now you know why we in #Gothic need the @
And FYI - If you spend $20 on eyliner, and its a stick that needs sharpening
rather than a liquid, your an idiot.
-Sternn (Son of buttpipe)
ellis d. suffuse wrote in message <35B6C145...@prozac.clark.net>...
Sheila Marie
>
> The irony of these messages is endless. Constant attacks on the #Gothic
> patrons for attacking others.
>
> Witless imbeciles? Hrmmm.....immature, vindictive, and assholish (is that a
> word?) maybe, but definitely not witless imbeciles. Witless imbeciles don't
> make six figures a year.
>
Actually, some of them do. I've seen dumbfucks running the country. Some
people are just lucky, guess that's why its called "dumb luck". If you
don't like any of the people here, just don't let them into your
channel, end of story.
--
Sheila Marie - http://www.lowlife.com/sheila_marie
C5 New Orleans - http://slashpalace.org/NOLA/
Industrial info site - http://www.lowlife.com
Tampa Mailing list - http://www.lowlife.com/gothgardens
Leonora the Lonely KittenLady
Marcus Pan <p...@idt.net> dared to write:
> On #gothic, the moment you open your mouth in reply
>to someone that in any way violates their "opinions," you are banned
>from the channel and have no way of replying. Someone called it
>"Hitleresque."
FUNNY that's never happened to me
your experience isn't the same as everyone else's
NOT EVERYONE gets kicked from #gothic just because they're there.
Leonora the Lonely KittenLady
Jed Clampett <Uncl...@petty.dictator.org> dared to write:
>I hate that UJ guy. Damned oppressor.
well i sure as hell hate him :P
bastard!!!
Leonora the Lonely KittenLady
Daednu <NOSPAM...@storm.ca> dared to write:
>No, I was banned for *no* reason.
you were not banned from #gothic
you were banned from undernet #goth
NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!
undernet #goth's bans are like efnet #gothic's kicks. they're a
learning experience.
i got banned from #goth on undernet tonight for typing something in
the wrong window. i unbanned myself and then banned the person who
banned me. he unbanned himself.
if you DON'T WHINE your ban will go away
-Leonora (Mistress of All Evil & Goddess Material :)
has been banned from almost everywhere, no longer cares
timmie
> Cpt. Lincoln F. Sternn wrote:
> > The irony of these messages is endless. Constant attacks on the #Gothic
> > patrons for attacking others.
>
> Here you are allowed to reply though and we will read it. We may bitch
> back and not like it, but we WILL give you a chance to say something
> intelligible back.
that's just plain silly marcus and you know it!... we don't have any
choice because we don't even know someone is on the newsgroup until
they've spoken... and even then it's no small process to remove them...
on IRC (in general not just #gothic) anyone can kick as soon as someone
is seen... and even have an autokick if they don't like someone
specifically... and there's little anyone can do to stop them _before_
it happens...
this is a state of being of the medium ... if it doesn't happen on
other channels it's usually because there's not as many ppl _on_ so the
idiot ratio is lower... if you don't like the way the medium allows
that.. then don't blame it on the members of a channel who happen to be
there at the time.. because usually there's little they can do about
it...
and yes... i'm explaining this to those who already know it because they
seem to have pointedly forgotten...
> On #gothic, the moment you open your mouth in reply
> to someone that in any way violates their "opinions," you are banned
> from the channel and have no way of replying. Someone called it
> "Hitleresque."
and which someone was this?.. what opinions?.. and did the person in
question attempt to rejoin the channel later in order to find out if it
was just one asshole rather than the opinion of the entire group?.. or
are you stating that this happens in general to absolutely everyone at
all when really it's only happened once to someone you know and no one's
ever tried it again?...
specifics please with full relevent details before accusations...
besides which... it's never happened to me... nor have i seen anyone
kick/ban there for no good reason... kick?.. yes frequently but that's
like a flame..
> That's my beef. Can you explain that?
if you give _all_ the details mentioned above then likely i can... the
"did x try to rejoin later" question being the most important in this
instance...
> > maybe, but definitely not witless imbeciles.
>
> Yeah, well, maybe you're not a witless imbecile. Even here you've made
> a point above. But how are we to know if where kick/banned without
> given a chance to find out, hmm?
again... specifics please... of all the seemingly hundreds of times it's
happened...
> Witless imbeciles don't
> > make six figures a year.
>
> Oh no? For your review, Exhibit A: Marilyn Manson.
who despite varied opinions is still quite intelligent as proven by his
ability to manipulate the masses and the media marketing machine... far
more effectively than a witless imbecile
> P.S. On all the above points I've brought up, I'd be interested in
> hearing a reply. No, not a flame, a real serious reply. This, as you
> can tell, wasn't a flame. :)
marcus... don't forget that _you_ began the name calling with the
mallrats... if you wanted intelligent discussion you shouldn't have led
in with insults...
timmie, flying blindly in the face of popular opinion it seems
timmie
> Woah - go Timmie. Excellent point. Very precise and on the mark. Not only
> was that accurate, it basically summed up everything that hasn't been said
> so far. Everyone can get an idea where everyone else stands by reading that
> message. With that knowledge, all controversy could be ended.
*laugh*
just like all controversy will be ended in any other a.g thread just
because the one spouting nonsense in the first place finally stops..
listens to what ppl are saying... and gently apologizes to everyone for
being silly...
yeah... sure.... :)
/me has little faith in fellow man when hurt pride is in question...
> Of course don't let this discourage anyone from flaming me personally, I'm
> still an asshole either way...
well.. yes... but heck... you such a funloving fluffy little asshole...
:)
timmie, sleepy