Return of an old-timer and H. Naoto review
karasu
I haven't been on this newsgroup in about five years, so I'll be
curious to see if anyone else is around from that time frame that
remembers me. I'm the one that used to go on about kimono. :)
Long story short, I moved to Japan, stayed there four and a half
years, and got back last fall. I'm looking to get back into AGF,
because I always found it a refreshing, friendly community with lots
of great ideas and a lack of melodrama.
To keep this post on topic, I'd like to do a general review of H.
Naoto, a Japanese goth designer who I became a fan of while living
over there. He has several different lines, ranging from elegant to
punk-ish to just plain weird. :)
Pricing (new) - Coats and jackets, about $100-$200. Shirts, $40-$90.
Skirts, $60-$120
Quality - Excellent. Every Naoto piece I've ever owned (typically
bought second-hand) has been well-put together, lasted a long while,
and looked much better than any American-made piece of clothing I've
seen that sells for the same price range. Japanese clothing, while
more expensive in general, tends to be worth it!
Sizing - Smallish, being a Japanese line, with average waists of 30"
or less doing best and shorter people(5'5" and under) having a
definite advantage. While almost all the clothing Naoto makes is
unisex and "free-size", women will find having a bust over a B makes
fitting shirts difficult at times.
Website - http://eng.s-inc.com/hnaoto/ (English)
(If you need help with the Japanese site, feel free to ask. I'm not
100% fluent, but I can probably help out more than your average
American. ;) )
Anyway, glad to be back, and I hope I can get back into things here. :)
Kai
I remember you distinctively because I once responded in grand detail
to one of your posts about a kimono only to have you completley ignore
it. Welcome back. The clothing sounds good but I tend to desire a
non-weeaboo opinion. People who are head over heels about Japanese
culture tend to be a bit "biased" in their reviews.
Scatter
karasu
I did? I'm sorry! I never ignored anyone to my knowledge... I'm
really sorry.
I have a strong interest in portions of Japanese culture, but living
and working there for years has made me anything but "head over heels"
for the place. It can be a narrow-minded, ignorant, racist little
hellhole, and any idealizing I may have once done about the country
was beaten out of me within the first couple of years of experiencing
the place firsthand.
I try hard to be objective, and don't appreciate being brushed off as
a dreaded "weeaboo." I will tell people up front what sucks about
Japan, clothing included. Naoto, in my experience, is a well-made
clothing line. I would say that if it were made in America. As I
lived in Japan for a long time, I had no American goth reviews to
offer.
It's also disappointing to see that nasty little phrase has made it to
this newsgroup and gets tossed around this easily: one post from me
after almost five years and I'm already labeled?
Ice Princess
> It's also disappointing to see that nasty little phrase has made it to
> this newsgroup and gets tossed around this easily: one post from me
> after almost five years and I'm already labeled?
Hi, karasu! I remember you. I've been gone for a couple of years myself.
Despite being gone, I do recall Kai/Scatter becoming the resident troll
here, so don't take any of that to heart.
ObGothFash: I'm wearing black and purple velvet.
Ice Princess
Lorriedel
> Anyway, glad to be back, and I hope I can get back into things here. :)
It's good to have you back, Karasu! I am curious, did you have a
chance to see a lot of Lolita style Gothic fashions in Japan? And
what style clothes are you favouring these days?
:)
Lorriedel
Museumbitch
> Hi, y'all!
>
> I haven't been on this newsgroup in about five years, so I'll be
> curious to see if anyone else is around from that time frame that
> remembers me. I'm the one that used to go on about kimono. :)
Yeah, I remember you; I learned a lot about kimono from reading your
posts (irc and have not become half-crazed due to oncoming art
exhibit!).
> Long story short, I moved to Japan, stayed there four and a half
> years, and got back last fall.
Cool! Did you do any kind of blog, website, etc about your
adventures?
> > Anyway, glad to be back, and I hope I can get back into things here. :)
Welcome back!
Erin
Angldst
> karasu wrote:
>
>> It's also disappointing to see that nasty little phrase has made it to
>> this newsgroup and gets tossed around this easily: one post from me
>> after almost five years and I'm already labeled?
>
>
> Hi, karasu! I remember you. I've been gone for a couple of years myself.
>
I remember you, too, so hello again! I'm also recently returned to the ng.
my obGothFash: Convergence 10 tshirt, black with green chile peppers
print bloomers with black venise lace trim, going comfy today because
I've been cutting out fabric all day.
-d
Angldst/Donna
DC Sewingoth & retired HockeyGoth
Original Sin Design LLC
http://www.originalsindesign.com
karasu
I remember you too. :)
> Despite being gone, I do recall Kai/Scatter becoming the resident troll
> here, so don't take any of that to heart.
Ah, I wondered about that after doing a bit of back-reading. Thanks!
karasu
> It's good to have you back, Karasu! I am curious, did you have a
> chance to see a lot of Lolita style Gothic fashions in Japan? And
> what style clothes are you favouring these days?
> :)
Thanks!
Oh yeah, I saw lots of it. If people want, I can give a quick review
of the shops and stores that tend to sell it(I never wore the style
myself, as my friends threatened to disown me when I just got a cherry
print dress ;) but the brands I liked were often in the same stores as
the loligoth ones).
Ironically enough, I'm only starting to get curious about it now that
I'm back in America... isn't that always how things go?
It's also funny you ask about what I'm wearing these days, as it ties
in to why I decided to come back to AGF. Long story short, I went to
Japan, couldn't wear my long skirts or girly gothy stuff much anymore
(riding a bicycle killed the skirts and I was too tall to fit most
Japanese girly stuff), so I started wearing more masculine gothy
outfits, suit-jacket-type tops and leather-worked jeans and the like,
after a brief flirtation with cybergoth. Then a lot of nasty stuff
went down in my life (house flooded and landlord refused to fix it,
etc.) and I lost nearly all of the confidence I used to have in myself
from a fashion viewpoint, and I sort of fell into jeans and T-shirts,
just dressing in whatever for about a year or so.
Now that things are better again and I'm moving to New York this
month, I'm hoping to reconnect with my sense of gothy fashion and have
fun with clothing again, rather than just putting it on. I'm hoping
to find some inspiration here again. :)
How about you? What sort of styles are you wearing?
karasu
> Yeah, I remember you; I learned a lot about kimono from reading your
> posts (irc and have not become half-crazed due to oncoming art
> exhibit!).
I don't remember anyone else rambling like that about them, so it was
probably me. Hi!
> Cool! Did you do any kind of blog, website, etc about your
> adventures?
I did, but I eventually made it all private: feel free to ask if
there's anything in particular you'd like to know about Japan,
though. :)
> Welcome back!
Thanks! ^_^
karasu
> I remember you, too, so hello again! I'm also recently returned to the ng.
Thanks! It seems like several of us have wandered back.
> my obGothFash: Convergence 10 tshirt, black with green chile peppers
> print bloomers with black venise lace trim, going comfy today because
> I've been cutting out fabric all day.
Whatcha cutting out, if you don't mind me asking? :)
Angldst
I'm getting ready for Convergence 13, Original Sin isn't vending there,
but some folks have ordered stuff, and of course I need some new gothic
finery! :D So this particular cutting party involved three dress
shirts for a client, one dress shirt for me, two victorian shirts with
assorted collars, cuffs, & neckwear for me, a pair of trousers, and two
waistcoats. :) Now I get to chain myself to the sewing machine,
because the client shirts need to get shipped out by monday/tuesday, and
I have to have another cutting party then for a set of victorian clothes
(bodice, skirt, teagown) for another client). The tailor's clothes get
made last, yada yada yada. :D
I love the Elegant Gothic Aristocrat (EGA) look, myself. Gothic Lolita
for the most part is a little too ruffley for me, though I DO have one
blouse and skirt & mini tophat outfit I made for myself out of
skull&roses print material with black ruffles that nods heavily to egl
style. It might come to convergence with me. I have several of the
'Gosu Rori' magazines with the patterns included that I've used for
inspiration for some other sewing, too.
karasu
<snip!>
Wow, good luck with it all! You have to admit, no matter how crazy it
gets I'll bet you never get bored. ;)
> I love the Elegant Gothic Aristocrat (EGA) look, myself. Gothic Lolita
> for the most part is a little too ruffley for me, though I DO have one
> blouse and skirt & mini tophat outfit I made for myself out of
> skull&roses print material with black ruffles that nods heavily to egl
> style. It might come to convergence with me. I have several of the
> 'Gosu Rori' magazines with the patterns included that I've used for
> inspiration for some other sewing, too.
Cool. I know myself well enough to know I'd look silly in the EGL
stuff, but the EGA stuff is attractive as it's more or less the look I
prefer now anyway. :)
Dark Phoenix
"karasu" <wasureta...@yahoo.co.jp> wrote in message
news:1178157689.5...@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi, y'all!
>
> I haven't been on this newsgroup in about five years, so I'll be
> curious to see if anyone else is around from that time frame that
> remembers me. I'm the one that used to go on about kimono. :)
Hey! Another a.g.f.er resurrected! Cool! Welcome back!
--
Laurie Brown, Dark Phoenix
dark_p...@netw.com
"To destroy the Western tradition of independent thought, it is not
necessary to burn books. All we have to do is leave them unread for a couple
of generations."
--Robert Maynard Hutchens.
Lorriedel
> How about you? What sort of styles are you wearing?
I'm still wearing black and red (or orange) most days, with foreys
into Victorian Gothic styles. (I'm wearing all red at the moment!)
It's hard for me to find everyday Victorian style clothing, but most
of my dressy clothes are Victorian and Gothic now, which makes me very
happy. I like looking at the Lolita Gothic clothes, but I wouldn't
feel comfortable wearing them. I'm 47, and though I do wear a lot of
jumpers, some of the cutsy stuff would look comedic rather than cool
on me. I am getting better at sewing, but the split skirts I want are
still beyond my abilities as is a Gibson girl blouse...unless I talk
one of my friends into helping me. My mom just sent me some lovely
lavender material that I need to figure out what to make it into.
Lorriedel
jbi...@yahoo.com
EGL el-jay community :) I actually just sort of wandered back to AGF
after a while because of the C13 stuff going on at AG ;p I was
wondering, did you ever try on any Juliet Et Justine? I'm really in
love with their stuff, especially their Queen Coat. In all honesty I
don't think i could fit into it unless i lost both of my boobs in a
freak accident, but i still want to know if the quality is as high as
the photos hint.
my obGothFash: black Ramones t-shirt and jeans. hey, gimme a break,
it's friday at the office! ;p But i just got a really cute
rockabilly dress by Rocksteady (25% off sale at www.hotrodvoodoo.com).
Black sundress w/ pink ribbon print and the pink ribbons have skull
centers. \m/ so i'll be rockin' the style tomorrow.
-Jola
jbi...@yahoo.com
> wondering, did you ever try on any Juliet Et Justine? I'm really in
> love with their stuff, especially their Queen Coat. In all honesty I
> don't think i could fit into it unless i lost both of my boobs in a
> freak accident, but i still want to know if the quality is as high as
> the photos hint.
http://www.home.versatel.nl/huisman170/mfashion/juliette.html
scroll down. I figured i'd share the eye-candy since I don't know how
well this Label is known around here. The site is a reseller, JeJ has
a direct link but i don't have it handy ...
-Jola
Museumbitch
> > Cool! Did you do any kind of blog, website, etc about your
> > adventures?
>
> I did, but I eventually made it all private: feel free to ask if
> there's anything in particular you'd like to know about Japan,
> though. :)
Hej!
When I first moved to Sweden in the mid-1990s I noticed that almost
*everyone* tried to chalk-up *every* difference of opinion with me to
cultural differences between the US and Sweden. Even I did this to a
great extent since my degree is in History and Anthropology and
intercultural communications was one of my areas of interest. However,
while there are, of course, cultural differences, I get really tired
of people ascribing any and all disagreements to them.
Some conflicts are just personality conflicts. Some are just matters
of taste; even in Sweden not everyone eats meatballs for example.
Finally, one day my boyfriend pulled the "oh, WE just don't do that
here" routine one time too many, though! I had done something that was
very typically Swedish and I realized that he was just being
manipulative! After that I just took to saying "hey, if you want me to
respect your language and culture then you have to respect mine." That
worked with most people and after I bitch-smacked a couple of rude
idiots, the others were afraid to mess with me! :-)
Sorry this is so long-winded, I just wonder what your experience was
like? And how did you handle the *perceived* differences as well as
the real ones?
Erin
Lorriedel
<snip>
> my obGothFash: black Ramones t-shirt and jeans. hey, gimme a break,
> it's friday at the office! ;p But i just got a really cute
> rockabilly dress by Rocksteady (25% off sale atwww.hotrodvoodoo.com).
> Black sundress w/ pink ribbon print and the pink ribbons have skull
> centers. \m/ so i'll be rockin' the style tomorrow.
>
> -Jola
Jola! Great to hear from you. I love hotrodvoodoo.com! I will be
ordering from them soon. Thanks for telling me about it...They have
cool socks, bows, and really awesome clothes.
Lorriedel
Oct'avian (Tyger)
> I try hard to be objective, and don't appreciate being brushed off as
> a dreaded "weeaboo." I will tell people up front what sucks about
> Japan, clothing included. Naoto, in my experience, is a well-made
> clothing line. I would say that if it were made in America. As I
> lived in Japan for a long time, I had no American goth reviews to
> offer.
>
> It's also disappointing to see that nasty little phrase has made it to
> this newsgroup and gets tossed around this easily: one post from me
> after almost five years and I'm already labeled?
I'd be interested in chatting off-list about Japan... my wife and I
are taking a 9-day tour of Japan this fall to Tokyo and Kyoto. Any
good ideas for goth nights? There's only so much info on vamp.org
karasu
<octav...@silvermoondesigns.org> wrote:
> I'd be interested in chatting off-list about Japan... my wife and I
> are taking a 9-day tour of Japan this fall to Tokyo and Kyoto. Any
> good ideas for goth nights? There's only so much info on vamp.org
Oh wow, you guys will have fun. :) Feel free to drop me an email if
you'd like to ask anything in particular. :)
Let's see... there's an event called Midnight Mess that still happens
once a month, I believe, in Tokyo but I can't find the site for it.
Goth or goth-friendly events aren't all that common, sadly! Maybe
once a month you can find one, but as a warning they tend to be in
tiny, tiny little basement clubs. Here's a link to Dark Castle, which
sponsors Tokyo monthly events as well:
karasu
> When I first moved to Sweden in the mid-1990s I noticed that almost
> *everyone* tried to chalk-up *every* difference of opinion with me to
> cultural differences between the US and Sweden. Even I did this to a
> great extent since my degree is in History and Anthropology and
> intercultural communications was one of my areas of interest. However,
> while there are, of course, cultural differences, I get really tired
> of people ascribing any and all disagreements to them.
Oh yes. God yes. You don't know how many times I smiled politely and
inwardly rolled my eyes at "-We- Japanese are (positive trait), while -
you- Americans are (negative trait), so that's why you think/do X."
> Some conflicts are just personality conflicts. Some are just matters
> of taste; even in Sweden not everyone eats meatballs for example.
> Finally, one day my boyfriend pulled the "oh, WE just don't do that
> here" routine one time too many, though! I had done something that was
> very typically Swedish and I realized that he was just being
> manipulative! After that I just took to saying "hey, if you want me to
> respect your language and culture then you have to respect mine." That
> worked with most people and after I bitch-smacked a couple of rude
> idiots, the others were afraid to mess with me! :-)
lol You know my pain! :D
> Sorry this is so long-winded, I just wonder what your experience was
> like? And how did you handle the *perceived* differences as well as
> the real ones?
Wow, I could go on about this for pages, but to sum up, I guess...
(Sorry for my long-windedness!)
Japan is an island, or group of islands, and as silly as that sounds
it really does have an effect on the way people think. Its geographic
isolation has really helped with the in-group vs. out-group way of
thinking, and the idea of fitting in with groups for harmony and
survival is almost unbelievable there.
As a goth, someone not terribly used to fitting in in the "normal"
majority in America, I think I handled being put into the outgroup by
the Japanese a lot better than most of the "normal" people who moved
there. For them it seemed very shocking that suddenly they weren't
welcome into the inner circle of normal people just like them.
However, to most Japanese, their foreignness superceded everything
else about them, putting them in the outgroup permanently. That's not
to say the Japanese aren't polite about it: Japanese racism tends to
be more subtle than the kind you're used to seeing in America.
The perceived differences were even more annoying. For example, when
you started learning Japanese, at first everyone patted you on the
head and talked about how wonderful and cute it was you were learning
the language! But you'll notice, talking to foreigners who study
Japanese, the further you get into the language or anything
Japanese(tm) (like calligraphy), the fewer compliments you get.
You're moving from being a cute foreigner to someone perceived as
trying to make a serious effort to invade Japanese-ness, and while you
still get some positive reactions you'll actually start seeing
negative ones on occasion.
This ties into perceived differences as well because most Japanese are
taught and/or really believe that their language is sooooooo super
ichiban hard to learn and their culture is sooooooo super ichiban
sublime and inaccessible to anyone but the Japanese. (To give you an
idea, I had a man tell me with a straight face, totally serious, that
"Japanese people are the smartest people in the world because our
language is so hard to learn and we speak it everyday.")
So when you show them that, nope, it's just a language and nope, it's
just art that anyone can study, just like anything else in the world,
you tend to get a backlash of varying degree. Most Japanese thrive on
the idea they're unique and special, and they don't appreciate your
foreign self showing competency in these things because that sabotages
that idea.
Now, to end on a positive note, I did enjoy a great deal of my time
over there and I do not regret for a moment the time I lived there. :)
It's just a very closed society and it will get on your nerves sooner
or later.
karasu
> Hey! Another a.g.f.er resurrected! Cool! Welcome back!
Hiya! :D
karasu
> EGL el-jay community :) I actually just sort of wandered back to AGF
> after a while because of the C13 stuff going on at AG ;p
Yay for random encounters! :) EGL seems like a nice place, though
from the occasional old-timer comment I wonder if I just got lucky as
far as when I found it.
> I was
> wondering, did you ever try on any Juliet Et Justine? I'm really in
> love with their stuff, especially their Queen Coat. In all honesty I
> don't think i could fit into it unless i lost both of my boobs in a
> freak accident, but i still want to know if the quality is as high as
> the photos hint.
No, to be honest most of my clothes came from Black Peace Now, H.
Naoto, Yasuyuki Ishii(smaller rock-ish designer), and little no-name
guys. I never tried on any of the Juliet Et Justine line.
Your instinct is correct: sizing is muuuuuch smaller in Japan,
especially in the bust. (I had to laugh because, yes, while my waist
may, at a size 8, be huge to the Japanese girls, at least in America
every single bra doesn't come already padded. ;) ) One reason I
bought those designers I named was that they had unisex or guys'
clothing that looked cool, and I was just too tall and big for most
Japanese women's clothing.
Most Japanese brands are of a high quality. In my experience with
them, you get what you pay for when it comes to quality. I was never
disappointed by any of the brands I bought. (Actually, I have a
Takuya Angel bag with a blue cord, and the blue cord bled on my white
shirt... but the pinstripe hakama I have from that line have held up
really well over time.)
karasu
Kou Hotaru
The actual website is http://tokyodarkcastle.org/ The .com is sat upon by
an American fellow the organizers hate with a passion, you can see the story
on that on the 'Caution!' button in the index.
http://www.jgoth.com seems to be broken at the moment but his MySpace is
http://www.myspace.com/jpgoth -people like to post event flyers up on there.
patti crass
"karasu" wrote ...
>
> I try hard to be objective, and don't appreciate being brushed off as
> It's also disappointing to see that nasty little phrase has made it to
> this newsgroup
ok
whats a "weeaboo"?
ive only been gone a few months and im already behind on my slang...........
2 demerits for me!
patti crass/medusa
Kai
The short of it. Weeaboo is a derogatory term given to people who are
obsessively 24/7/365 all over all aspects of Japanese culture. We are
not talking normal "otaku" interest. Were talking about psychos who spew
stupid ass Manga,and Anime references every five seconds,litter their
speech with gobbledy-gook Japanese phrases and eat meals with chopsticks
while discussing how much more they identify with Japanese culture than
their own. You can see these jacks crowding the "con"-ventions looking
like regugees from Fruits,and the Gothic and Lolita bibles. This
epidemic is so bad they even have a word for it in Finland. "Ernus"
whch means new poser or some shit like that.
Other terms are Wapanese,Blackanese,and fucking wannabe.
DIE WEEABOOS!