Mr. President show us the Birth Certificate
Ted L
cross the Rio Grande to see some family members.
On June 1, it became mandatory to have a passport to travel to Mexico. When
he submitted his application, he included the only document he had that
resembled the required birth certificate - a Texas birth card or birth
abstract, a document he describes as looking "almost identical to the one
President Obama posted on that website."
But while that certification of live birth was enough to qualify Obama for
the White House, de Hoyos can't believe the only birth document he has won't
qualify him to get a U.S. passport.
This doesn't sit well with de Hoyos - and many other Americans in similar
situations being forced to produce exactly the right paperwork for routine
matters while they see the president getting a pass on a constitutional
requirement to be eligible for the highest office in the land.
(Story continues...)
BORN IN THE USA?
Passport seeker has no sympathy for Obama
Says he can't cross river to visit family without showing birth certificate
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105027
Posted: July 25, 2009
11:50 pm Eastern
� 2009 WorldNetDaily
Gary Forbis
How could she present the document you ask to have
presented?
In the article you cite Juan A. de Hoyos is described
as "a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Texas". Do you
know what "a naturalized U.S. citizen" means? It means
he wasn't born in the US. How do you suppose a document
of live birth outside the US is suppose to support one's
contention of US citizenship?
Info Junkie
> My mom was born at home without a physician present.
> How could she present the document you ask to have
> presented?
You don't say where or when your mother was born. If within the United
States I believe there are documents made at the time of your mother's
birth that recorded the pertinent events surrounding her birth, date
and time, weight, sex, etc. Some states wanted the order of birth and
simeltantaneous events (1st, 3rd...twin, triplet, etc.) while others
recorded your parents names, occupations as well as race. Most
requirements included who were the primary attendees (in lieu of a
physician) to the birth, i.e. midwife/family member or others
(neighbhors/friend). If your mother was born within the United States
it would depend on when she was born and the laws that were applicable
to such births at the time.
> In the article you cite Juan A. de Hoyos is described
> as "a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Texas". Do you
> know what "a naturalized U.S. citizen" means? It means
> he wasn't born in the US. How do you suppose a document
> of live birth outside the US is suppose to support one's
> contention of US citizenship?
The poster can answer for themselves but I supect the point was clear;
even "a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Texas" needs to provide
better documentation to get a passport than Obama provided to prove
his eligibility to be the US President.
IMNSHO, BHO's birth location is ALMOST secondary to his dad being
Kenyan, i.e. British citizenship. That alone eliminates him as
meeting the presidential criteria to be a "natural born" citizen...one
that requires both parents to be American citizens.
Kris Baker
news:d12e69b0-7857-40c3...@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> The poster can answer for themselves but I supect the
> point was clear; even "a naturalized U.S. citizen
> living in Texas" needs to provide better
> documentation to get a passport
A "naturalized citizen" is one who later BECOMES a
citizen. Their citizenship papers are what they need to
get a passport.
Why would a "natural born citizen" need citizenship
papers?
> than Obama provided to prove his eligibility to be
> the US President.
Again, why would a "natural born citizen" need to prove
citizenship? Why would Obama need more than either
Bush?
Where's YOUR citizenship papers?
"As far as I can tell", you are an illegal alien.
Kris
You just can't admit "it's because he's black and
has to prove he's eligible/worthy/equal"
Kris
cuh...@webtv.net
www.libertypost.org
How Lowwwwwwww can it go?
cuhulin
Big J
> "Info Junkie" <bondr...@att.net> wrote in message
Jeebus, are these Birther tards still at it?
They can't tell the difference between a naturalized citizen and a
natural born citizen?
The idea that Obama isn't a natural born citizen because his father
was Kenyan is not only stupid, it's not consistent with the
Constitution and SCOTUS rulings.
Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939) makes this abundantly clear. A
girl who was born in the US to naturalized citizens is a natural born
citizen. That is law. It is decided.
Any opinion otherwise is contrary to the established law of the
country.
It's time for these delusional asshats to give up. Their conspiracy
theories have been disproved. Their continued belief in them is
insane.
Big J
-----
Kris Baker
news:aec948fc-4cfe-483e...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
------------------------
A child born in the US to NON-citizens, is a citizen of the US, too.
NONE of these birthers are furnishing the requested legal
documentation of their citizenship status, are they?
Meanwhile, they don't even look into the background of Orly Taitz,
the dentist/realtor/"attorney" taking the cases of chickenhawks
who are trying to get out of their volunteer military status by
suing Obama.
Although Taitz is a member of the California Bar, she's not listed as a
member of the American Bar Association (check for yourself). Nor is her "law
school" (William Howard Taft University) accredited by the ABA. Because Taft
is a distance-learning school only, Taitz's degree entitles her, at most, to
practice in California, as her school candidly admits.
Rules of attorney discipline forbid the practice of law without a license -
i.e., without sitting for and passing the bar exam, after graduating from an
ABA-accredited school. Her correspondence degree is a limited exception,
only useful in California. So, any action in which she appeared as counsel
of record outside the state would constitute practicing law without a
license, in violation of California disciplinary rules. Has "Dr." Taitz
violated this rule? Does her appearance before the Supreme Court, in filing
documents for the frivolous, since-dismissed case Lightfoot v. Bowen,
therefore subject her to discipline?
-------------------
As one comment on the forum says "[We] have the federal judiciary including
the Supreme Court, all fifty state secretaries of state, and the entire
legal academy. [Birthers] have a dentist with a correspondence-school legal
degree."
Kris
2nz
>
> It's time for these delusional asshats to give up. Their conspiracy
> theories have been disproved. Their continued belief in them is
> insane.
>
It's xenophobia in action.
Kris Baker
Excuse me for changing the subject. It was too good
to resist: “The Queen Bee of Birferstan”
Read this one, and laugh (just like John Roberts did), when
Israeli-Russian Orly Taitz got up with her trunkload of
Kinko-filia.
http://www.ocweekly.com/2009-06-18/news/orly-taitz/
NOW we know where they're getting their little code-words
from: a dentist with a law degree from an online university
who doesn't even belong to the ABA.
I want to see HER citizenship and loyalty, since she's
from Moldavia (aka "Communist Romania").
Kris
Poetic Justice
So how do we get the likes of Rosie O'Donnell to take their asshats off?
9/11 wasn't a Bush Jr. black ops.
Poppa Bush didn't fly to Iran in an SR-71 to release hostages.
And Despite Whoopie Goldberg's insistence???..... the Moon landing
really wasn't filmed in Hollywood.
Kris Baker
news:a42e25a2-7bbb-4061...@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
If you think about it, they're doing the rest of us a public service.
We now have a group of people who've self-identified as nutjobs,
whose leader (Dentist-Realtor-non-ABA Attorney Orly Taitz) sends
out things titled "Ceize and Desist".
And her followers don't see the problem.
Kris
wull
"Kris Baker" <paralle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7d3p32F...@mid.individual.net...
I do not think that the birthers as you call them need any kind of degree at
all. Anyone should be able to challenge Pres. Obama's birthplace if it is
questionable. People like you should wonder too if he is really a US
citizen/ You stick your nose in everything else why not the birth
challenge, which would be the easiest thing in the world to prove (unless it
does not exist).? Methinks you might be scared of the truth, why else
would you raise your usual rant?
IMO, not proving the challenge wrong is suspicious. Look how fast he
retracted his 'stupid' and 'calibrated' gaff when it was challenged by a
force to be recokened with. I guess as usual no one can answer your posts
without the Letter man piping in?
Wull
> Kris
>
>
Big J
Great article. Love this quote:
Patrick McKinnion of Yes to Democracy puts it a different way:
“There’s a certain amount of fascination with unbridled insanity, and
that’s what you’re seeing with the birthers: a level of hatred that
borders, if not absolutely pole-vaults, into insanity.”
What a fucking loon Orly Taitz is. And the lunatic birthers deserve
her as their chief legal counsel....
Big J
-----
Kris Baker
>>
>>
>
>
>Great article. Love this quote:
>
>Patrick McKinnion of Yes to Democracy puts it a
>with unbridled insanity, and that�s what you�re seeing
>with the birthers: a level of hatred that borders, if
>
>What a fucking loon Orly Taitz is. And the lunatic
>birthers deserve her as their chief legal counsel....
>
>Big J
Especially since she's not licensed to practice law
except on a limited basis *within* the State of
California.
I'm having a hard time convincing myself that this
is *not* the best dirty-tricks operation carried off
by the Democrats, ever.
Think about it. Someone starts a birfer conspiracy,
and the Democrats just sit back and calmly let it
grow, while the Republican Party shatters into
dentist-lawyer-realtors.
Kris
Twitchell
Get with the program, wull. It's been proved to death. The fact that you don't
accept it speaks poorly of your sense of logic. You're starting to sound like
yet another Texas redneck racist who's looking for any excuse to question a
blackman in the White House.
twitch
Gary Forbis
> IMO, not proving the challenge wrong is suspicious.
Consider the story from
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78931
But Berg explained to Savage he believes Obama's
mother was near the end of her pregnancy and unable
to travel by plane, so Obama was born in Kenya. The
family then traveled to Hawaii and registered the birth
and submitted the newspaper announcement.
So here's the thing. The Certificate of Live Birth was
filed on Aug 8 for the Aug 4 birth. This means that
for the story to be true the family must have been packed
and ready to go with all the paperwork in place to take
a newborn from Kenya to Hawaii and file those papers.
7:24PM in Kenya is 1:24AM the next day in Hawaii.
How much time do you think Barrak allowed his wife
to recover before putting her and his child on the plane?
All of this to perpetrate a fraud on the American people
and to what end? Why bother? Barrak II would still
be able to chose to be an American citizen at 18 because
his mother was an American citizen.
How would Senior know Junior would apply for a job
where he needed to be a naturally born citizen? That's
aiming quite high for the time.
wull
"Twitchell" <Twitchel...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:h4ilk...@drn.newsguy.com...
OH, oh, another letterman. What has been proven to death? I cannot accept
anything that is questioned if there is no answer. I am not a redneck nor a
racist but you obviously are one. You sound just like the Harvard
professor.
Wull
> twitch
>
Iarnrod
That's completely false. His birth in Hawaii makes him a natural born
US citizen even if both parents were Martians.
Kris Baker
news:cf34e4b1-bdf8-4090...@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
-----------------------------
....and as Jon Stewart says....you do all that....and
then...........................................you wait until that baby
is a middle-aged man and let him win the Presidency
of the United States.
Kris
Kris Baker
news:4a18590e-31a3-4812...@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> That's completely false. His birth in Hawaii makes him
> a natural born US citizen even if both parents were
> Martians.
Wanna bet these birfers are the same people complaining
about all these "anchor babies" that are US citizens
simply because they were born in the US, to illegal alien
parents?
I swear, if you spotted them "4" as the answer to 2+2,
they wouldn't get it.
Kris
Kris Baker
news:comadrejoagua-7F8...@news.giganews.com...
> In article
> <cf34e4b1-bdf8-4090...@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> Gary Forbis <forbi...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> This means that
>> for the story to be true the family must have been packed
>> and ready to go with all the paperwork in place to take
>> a newborn from Kenya to Hawaii and file those papers.
>> 7:24PM in Kenya is 1:24AM the next day in Hawaii.
>
> from Honolulu, so Honolulu will be around 6:24am the same day.
>
> My guess in 1961, the fastest way to get from Nairobi to Honolulu,
> was go from Nairobi to London, (if that was possible) London to New
> York, New York to San Francisco, SF to Honolulu. Fun, fun trip for a
> very recent mother and a newborn.
>
> Ann Durham must had loved her time in Kenya, when she found out that
> there was another Mrs. Barack Obama, given that Barack Obama Sr. had bit
> of a bigamy problem.
Especially considering that Ann Dunham had never left the US
until *after* she gave birth to her son.
Kris
S. Fu
> I'm having a hard time convincing myself that this
> is *not* the best dirty-tricks operation carried off
> by the Democrats, ever.
It does seem like the kind of sly con that Carville would cook up, doesn't it?
Probably not. The Dems haven't had real sleazy dirty-tricks fixers in
their stable since the LBJ days. But you never know. A gaffe or two
aside, Obama's political machine has been remarkably organized and
efficient. And the timing is just perfect. They knew that the prez
was going to start taking hits on the economy in the summer and on into
the fall, and that health care reform was going to be a hard sell.
Plus the drip-drip-drip of messy bad news as we try to extract
ourselves from Iraq and Afghanistan. A high-profile but ultimately
harmless non-scandal sure does help in the delfect and obscure
department.
S. Fu
More to the point, they evidently have no understanding of the
Revolutionary and immediately post-Revolutionary history of the United
States. The whole point of the "natural born" clause was to sever the
political links to the British Empire. There was absolutely no
original intent that it be employed as some gotcha technicality two
hundred years later.
All of the Founding Fathers, if they could be brought back from the
grave, would be just as derisive of these kooks claiming we should
overturn the freely held election of Obama as president on the basis of
an antiquated eligibility clause. Of course they'd also be shocked as
hell that we'd elected a darkie president. I'd like to think that
Jefferson and Adams would be astonished yet supportive, but I wouldn't
expect that.
See, this is the thing: various winguts like to take some bit of the
Constitution that they particularly like and rant as if it's sacred
dogma given straight from the lips of Jesus teabaggin' Christ. But
anyone with an eight-grade education knows that the Constitution was
always a mess of compromises. We don't treat black folk as 3/5th
citizens anymore or allow state legislatures to choose senators either,
so why get into a tizzy over some other antiquated technicality? No
sane, educated American would.
Kris Baker
I don't think the Democrats started it; they're not good at these
things. But I can see them laughing up their sleeves as the news
harps on this. It serves many purposes for them.
Obama had to know that the people would get antsy about now,
even though he told everyone that there would be no quick fix
to the economy and that employment always lags after a
recession ends.
What the Republicans are afraid of, though, is that the
recession will end and employment start looking better,
months before the mid-term elections.
So they're letting Rush, Birfers and Word-Salad Sarah
represent them.
Kris
S. Fu
> How she seemed to jump to some paranoid conclusion that her suit filed
> at the Supreme Court was deleted for ulterior reasons, is just another
> check that she has some sort of serious disorder.
I went slumming over to the military newsgroups to see what the
reaction was to the loony Ms. Taitz and the Reserve major she's
"representing" in court. Wow, talk about purely pissed-off soldiers!
They're ready to string this guy up for mutiny and/or desertion. The
last thing they want is some birther wingnut passing himself off as a
patriotic US serviceman.
Kris Baker
>
> Conspiracy Nuts/Paranoid People do what Dr. Taitz is doing, taking
> bits and pieces from random events and trying to weave them together
> with a tinge of sinister intentions. She also sounds that she is very
> sensitive to any sort of criticism, given she has attacked those around
> her, like another "Esq." Philip K. Berg.
I like how "people called all the hospitals in Hawaii" and found that
none had a record of treating Obama or his mother.
BECAUSE HOSPITALS DON'T KEEP THEIR RECORDS FOR 48
YEARS, YOU IDIOT. I tried to get my medical records from a
doctor who had treated me seven years before, but because I
wasn't a current patient, my records weren't digitized (and all
the paper records had been disposed of a year before).
Jebus. Orly's one of those people who thinks talking fast works.
Kris
Iarnrod
> Juan A. de Hoyos, a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Texas, wanted to
> cross the Rio Grande to see some family members.
>
> On June 1, it became mandatory to have a passport to travel to Mexico. When
> he submitted his application, he included the only document he had that
> resembled the required birth certificate - a Texas birth card or birth
> abstract, a document he describes as looking "almost identical to the one
> President Obama posted on that website."
That's not possible, kook. If Hoyos is a naturalized citizen, then it
is not possible for him to have for himself a document that is "almost
identical" to the one Obama posted. The one Obama posted is given ONLY
to natural born citizens born in the US of A.
Hoyos apparently was born in Mexico. A Texas document attesting to
your birth in Mexico is not anything at all like Obama's publicly
released Hawaiian birth certificate.
Kris Baker
news:4a6cfe72$0$9289$ae26...@fe1.newsfeeds.com...
True. Military (and civilian employees) are sworn to protect their
country, its citizens and its officials (including the President). They
also get annual (or maybe still quarterly) briefings on "protection
of the President).
Then....there's the contractor who got fired because he was spreading
this birfer disease...and he's using Orly to get his job back. Of
course, there's NO better way to get your job back than to file a
huge lawsuit against everyone you know at work.
Kris
Gary Forbis
> His birth in Hawaii makes him a natural born
> US citizen even if both parents were Martians.
What? Obama's parents were Martians?
No wonder so many people believe he's
an illegal allien. Can Martians even give
natural bith to humans? I bet it was C-section
at best.
I've been trying to track down the law about
"naturally born citizen". It seems like it has
been left to the states to decide the rules.
Maybe Texas has/had one rule and Hawaii
another.
Here's the current law as presented in
http://www1.dshs.wa.gov/manuals/eaz/sections/CitizenGenElig.shtml
"U.S. citizens."
1. The following individuals are considered to be citizens of the
U.S.:
a. Persons born in the U.S. or its territories (Guam, Puerto
Rico,
and the U.S. Virgin Islands; also residents of the Northern
Mariana
Islands who elected to become U.S. citizens); or
b. Legal immigrants who have naturalized after immigrating to the
U.S.
2. Persons born abroad to at least one U.S. citizen parent may be
U.S.
citizens under certain conditions.
3. Individuals under the age of eighteen automatically become
citizens
when they meet the following three conditions on or after February
27, 2001:
a. The child is a lawful permanent resident (LPR);
b. At least one of the parents is a U.S. citizen by birth or
naturalization; and
c. The child resides in the U.S. in the legal and physical
custody of the citizen parent.
4. For those individuals who turned eighteen before February 27,
2001,
the child would automatically be a citizen if still under eighteen
when
he or she began lawful permanent residence in the U.S. and both
parents had naturalized. Such a child could have derived
citizenship
when only one parent had naturalized if the other parent were dead,
a U.S. citizen by birth, or the parents were legally separated and
the
naturalizing parent had custody.
Number 2 bothers me because it relies upon conditions not stated.
Number 3 doesn't apply but bothers me because it means kids of
dead parents who would have otherwise met the conditions wouldn't.
Number 4 applies but is a bit confusing. I feel sorry for foreign
born
orphans of two naturalized citizens
As it turns out if Obama had been born in Kenya then the conditions
to #2 apply. I wish they were stated. I suspect the conditions are
that the custodial parent be the one who was a citizen by birth.
The problem is Obama was living with his grandparents.
Again, if being born in the US was all that important there would
be no way his mother would be overseas during late pregnancy.
Iarnrod
> On Jul 26, 3:53 pm, Iarnrod <iarn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > His birth in Hawaii makes him a natural born
> > US citizen even if both parents were Martians.
>
> What? Obama's parents were Martians?
No.
> No wonder so many people believe he's
> an illegal allien. Can Martians even give
> natural bith to humans? I bet it was C-section
> at best.
"even if?"
> I've been trying to track down the law about
> "naturally born citizen". It seems like it has
> been left to the states to decide the rules.
Nope.
> Maybe Texas has/had one rule and Hawaii
> another.
No. It is a federal issue.
> Here's the current law as presented inhttp://www1.dshs.wa.gov/manuals/eaz/sections/CitizenGenElig.shtml
>
> "U.S. citizens."
Immaterial. We are talking about a subset of citizens.
They were different conditions at different times. Under the law in
effect at Obama's birth, he would arguably not be a natural born
citizen if he were not born in the US because his mother wasn't yet
19, although that is arguable as I said.
> Again, if being born in the US was all that important there would
> be no way his mother would be overseas during late pregnancy.
She never left Hawaii during her pregnancy. She gave birth to him in
Honolulu. This has been proven beyond question.
S. Fu
> BECAUSE HOSPITALS DON'T KEEP THEIR RECORDS FOR 48
> YEARS, YOU IDIOT. I tried to get my medical records from a
> doctor who had treated me seven years before, but because I
> wasn't a current patient, my records weren't digitized (and all
> the paper records had been disposed of a year before).
I was born in a semi-rural hospital in Washington around the same time
as the president. I happened to find my old live birth record from the
hospital, complete with lil' baby footy-print, in some old papers. Do
you think it still exists anywhere else on the planet? Of course not.
Does the hospital at which Obama is "claimed" to have been born even
still exist? Still operated by the same company/private
foundation/public entity/etc.? Private hospitals go out of business or
are bought up all the time, especially in the last 20 years. Who
expects a hospital to keep birth records for forty years? Would you
expect a bank to still have records of an account that you closed forty
years ago?
Day Brown
> That's not possible, kook. If Hoyos is a naturalized citizen, then it
> is not possible for him to have for himself a document that is "almost
> identical" to the one Obama posted. The one Obama posted is given ONLY
> to natural born citizens born in the US of A.
>
> Hoyos apparently was born in Mexico. A Texas document attesting to
> your birth in Mexico is not anything at all like Obama's publicly
> released Hawaiian birth certificate.
and the power elite wants to get rid of Obama before they all get
dragged out to be shot, they can dredge this up as if electing him was
all a big mistake that they were not responsible for.
As if, by then, VP Biden would be able to do anything. Its nuts, but
that is the way the power elite is also.
Ted L
> True. Military (and civilian employees) are sworn to protect their
> country, its citizens and its officials (including the President).
We are sworn to defend the constitution of the United States against
all enemies, foreign and domestic...
Our allegiance is to the Constitution, not to men. Buckle up.
Ted L
> The whole point of the "natural born" clause was to sever the
> political links to the British Empire. There was absolutely no
> original intent that it be employed as some gotcha technicality two
> hundred years later.
"one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou
mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother."
Deuteronomy 17:15
Read your Bible.
Kris Baker
Yes, Kapiolani still exists....and it took me about 3 minutes
to catch another WND/birther lie.
WND claims that Kapiolani hospital removed an image
of Obama's letter from their website.....but the birthers
cleverly refer to the wrong website. Here it is:
http://www.kapiolanigift.org/press_room/Publications/Inspire%20Magazine%20Spring%202009.pdf
Here's the birther lie:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103503
"Within an hour of the posting of this story, Kapi'olani removed the image
of the letter from its website."
Well guess what, WND. You're BUSTED!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082301620.html
he passed Kapiolani Medical Center, walking below the hospital room where he
was born on Aug. 4, 1961. Two blocks farther along, at the intersection with
Wilder, he could look left toward the small apartment on Poki where he had
spent a few years with his little sister, Maya, and his mother,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapi'olani_Medical_Center_for_Women_&_Children
birthplace of Barack Obama, President of the United States
Kris Baker
> In article
> <20383235-d030-448a...@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> intelligence service that this woman works for... Obviously the woman in
> the article is a plant, a sleeper who has spent 47 years in Hawaii to
> embarrass Orly and other Birfers.
>
> http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html
You must be a mindreader; I'd read that last week, but forgot
to bookmark it.
Silly Birfers. Trix are for kids.
Kris
Ted L
> dogma given straight from the lips of Jesus <vulgar Sodomy-reference snipped>Christ.
"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they
shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Matthew 12:36
You've been warned. Once by the law of God written on your heart.
Now by his word and by the Holy Spirit. And thus you've spoken
against the name above all names in this world and the world to come,
in Heaven and Earth, over all principalities and powers and places,
the King of kings.
Repent or perish (Luke 13:3,5).
Nickname unavailable
in the conservative world, its always someone else's fault:The
legislative investigation wasn't her doing. It was a "Democratic
driven, partisan witch hunt" voted on by 10 Republicans and 4
Democrats after Sarah Palin challenged them with Bush-like bravado
"Bring it on!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20090721/cm_huffpost/240687;_ylt=Ajl...
It's Not Sarah's Fault...Just Ask Her
Shannyn Moore – Tue Jul 21, 9:31 am ET
Read Shannyn Moore's other articles on HuffingtonPost.com
When it comes to taking responsibility for her failures, Sarah Palin
is completely unaccountable. Her finger is always pointed at the most
convenient scapegoat. Last fall, I said she was George W. Bush with
lipstick; nothing is ever her fault. With her resignation, she has set
a new bar for blame.
A 10 Month Accounting of Blame...
Troopergate was her brother-in-law's fault.
Walt Monegan was a rogue commissioner.
Neglecting a vetting of Palin's appointed replacement of Commissioner
Monegan wasn't her fault, she didn't know Chuck Kopp had a sexual
harassment charge. His 14 day employment was rewarded with a $10,000
severance package.
Her public press conference, pro-Pebble Mine stance during a
contentious election was the fault of a "Governor's hat" wardrobe
malfunction and possibly Tim Griffin.
The legislative investigation wasn't her doing. It was a "Democratic
driven, partisan witch hunt" voted on by 10 Republicans and 4
Democrats after Sarah Palin challenged them with Bush-like bravado
"Bring it on!"
When her church was burned, Palin blamed it on the attention she was
receiving from people who didn't like her.
The Branchflower Report's "guilty of abuse of power" findings weren't
her fault; she filed her own ethics complaint and would release those
favorable findings the day before the election.
When an Anchorage based right wing radio host disagreed with her
policies, in an email she blamed it on, "...some evil stuff going on
with him."
Her criticisms when her witch hunting, governor-anointing pastor,
Pastor Muthee, was exposed, were the fault of people who hate Jesus.
Her failed interviews were Katie Couric's and Charlie Gibson's fault.
She called them "Gotcha questions."
The interview complete with compliments about the porno "Nailin'
Pailin'" with "Sarkozy" poser shock jocks was the fault of McCain
Campaign staffers.
Her exorbitant wardrobe was the RNC's fault.
Her charging the state per diem to sleep in her own bed and flying her
family around the country at state expense were nothing more than
petty ethics complaints from whiny constituents.
Her daughter's problems are Levi's fault.
Her VP political loss was John McCain's fault.
Her image problems are Tina Fey's fault.
Turkeygate was the cameraman's fault.
Her policy on aerial wolf hunting was Ashley Judd's and other
Outsiders' fault. Palin's "faith based policy" on gassing wolf pups in
their den must have been the fault of wolves gone wild.
Alaskans damn near starved in Western Alaska last winter because they
didn't have enough cookies or Jesus.
The resignation of Attorney General Talis Colberg had nothing to do
with the advice he gave Todd Palin and aides to ignore subpoenas. She
blamed it on the "harsh political environment"created by lawmakers.
Palin thought Ted Stevens should "step aside" when convicted last
fall. When Eric Holder overturned Steven's conviction, Palin thought
Begich should resign.
When 6 million gallons of stored oil sat at the base of an erupting
Mt. Redoubt, it was Homeland Security's issue, not her fault.
The empty Juneau Senate seat wasn't on her; it was the Senate
Democrats' fault.
When Palin blew off a meeting with lawmakers in Juneau to have a press
conference with Wayne Anthony Ross, the legislative leadership called
a heated press conference of their own. Palin blamed them for not
having the meeting "telephonically"...then it got messy.
Her failed appointment of a "if you can't rape your wife, who can you
rape?" secessionist, gun toting attorney general, Wayne Anthony Ross,
was the fault of the Alaska bloggers.
The failure of Palin's bills last session were the fault of partisan
legislators.
In March, the governor said she wasn't "rejecting" the stimulus money,
she just wasn't "accepting" it. It was Obama's fault for the national
debt.
The inability to follow through with multiple speaking engagements had
nothing to do with Palin's commitment phobia,. It was a
misunderstanding with scheduling.
When a legislative aid made copies of an article Palin didn't like,
she went to his office and blamed him for letting his boss know she
wouldn't be in town for the last days of the session. Really.
After making a speech, Palin was accused of lifting words from Newt
Gingrich and Craig Shirley in 2005. Palin's attorney said it wasn't
her fault, she said Newt's name twice.
The ethics complaints against the governor were "unscrupulous" and
Obama driven.
No one believes the governor's "word salad" as an explanation for her
resignation, but that's the fault of an Alaskan blogger -- me.
She blamed the ethics complaints for costing Alaska "millions of
dollars", except they weren't. It was less than $300,000 and of that,
$187,000 was from her own politically motivated complaint, filed on
herself to distract an interested public from the damning Branchflower
report.
Sarah didn't want the travel costs of a "lame duck governor" to be
billed to the state, and blamed her resignation on it in part...but
she flew, on state dime, the equivalent of Miami to LA in the seven
days since resigning.
She has half a million dollars in personal legal bills and must
resign, blaming ethics complainers for her expense...but those legal
bills will be paid in full, courtesy of her massive legal defense
fund.
Levi says she's out for the money...but his opinion doesn't matter.
She blames his opinion on having a movie deal in the works.
It's Rahm Emmanuel and President Obama's fault that Sarah Palin has
constituents who think she sucks at her job.
Under the Palin Administration, the Department of Health & Social
Services has been so poorly managed the federal government has
forbidden the state to sign up new people until they get their act
together. So, I guess that would be the fault of people who are both
poor and sick and old.
The Constitutional crisis created by Palin's resignation isn't her
fault, the legislature should have seen this coming years ago.
It's not Sarah's fault she's married to a man who was part of a
secessionist political party, the Alaska Independence Party. No, it's
the fault of "gotcha" voter registration.
No, Governor Palin, your losses are your fault.
Sell crazy somewhere else, we're all full here.
Related blogs: Nick Sabloff: Palin Starts Packing To Leave Governor's
Mansion, Nick Sabloff: Palin Says Alaska Tour Is Thanks, "Not
Farewell"
Read More: Alaska, Blame, Branchflower Report, Bristol, Department Of
Health And Human Services, Ethics Complaints, Fault, Levi, Mark
Begich, Obama, Pebble Mine, Rahm Emanuel, Sarah Palin, Sarah Palin
Aerial Wolf Hunting, Shannyn Moore, Talis Colberg, Ted Stevens, Tim
Griffin, Todd Palin, Troopergate, Walt Monegan
S. Fu
I've got a lot of bibles. I use Gideons as drinks coasters, but the
water-damaged King James oversize I use as a doorstop.
S. Fu
Hee, hee, I should send you my script about the bible-beltin' daddy and
his dope-smoking son. Lots of biblical banter in that one. Never did
get it staged but the literary manager of Playwrights Horizons (a
fairly prestigious off-Broadway house) called it "brilliantly savage,"
or something like that.
You don't even want to get in the ring with re. citing the Good Book.
I'll rip you so many new assholes you'll sound like a calliope when you
sneeze.
S. Fu
>>> I'm having a hard time convincing myself that this
>>> is *not* the best dirty-tricks operation carried off
>>> by the Democrats, ever.
>>
>> It does seem like the kind of sly con that Carville would cook up, doesn'
> t it?
>>
>> Probably not. �The Dems haven't had real sleazy dirty-tricks fixers in
>> their stable since the LBJ days. �But you never know. �A gaffe or two
>> aside, Obama's political machine has been remarkably organized and
>> efficient. �And the timing is just perfect. �They knew that the prez
>> was going to start taking hits on the economy in the summer and on into
>> the fall, and that health care reform was going to be a hard sell. �
>> Plus the drip-drip-drip of messy bad news as we try to extract
>> ourselves from Iraq and Afghanistan. �A high-profile but ultimately
>> harmless non-scandal sure does help in the delfect and obscure
>> department.
>
> I don't think the Democrats started it; they're not good at these
> things. But I can see them laughing up their sleeves as the news
> harps on this. It serves many purposes for them.
The Dems may not have set up the whole birther hooraw, but it occurs to
me that Obama (or, more likely, his grandparents) may actually have the
live birth record from the hospital, with newborn footprint, etc., plus
pics of baby 'Bama in the crib in the newborn ward, etc. And they're
just holding it all back until the right moment and then bam! hit the
pandering conservative politicos right in the crotch with it all.
Won't change the mind of the birth-cert loonies, of course, but it
would kneecap the suck-ups like John Campbell, Dobbs, etc.
Ted L
> On 2009-07-26 19:41:22 -0700, Ted L <tedl...@ymail.com> said:
>
> > On Jul 26, 7:53 pm, S. Fu <fuf...@fubar.org> wrote:
>
> >> dogma given straight from the lips of Jesus <vulgar Sodomy-reference snip
> > ped>Christ.
>
> > "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they
> > shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Matthew 12:36
>
> > You've been warned. Once by the law of God written on your heart.
> > Now by his word and by the Holy Spirit. And thus you've spoken
> > against the name above all names in this world and the world to come,
> > in Heaven and Earth, over all principalities and powers and places,
> > the King of kings.
>
> > Repent or perish (Luke 13:3,5).
>
"Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance
obtained a more excellent name than they...But unto the Son he saith,
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is
the sceptre of thy kingdom." Hebrews 1:4,8
S. Fu
> I think she has done enough to get disbarred from the State of
> California. Especially filing crap with those delusional citizen juries
> in Georgia. She is really acting reckless.
You are right. To get her disbarred, someone has to bring a formal
complaint to the California Bar, although I suppose that their
discplinary apparat could bring the complaint themselves in an extreme
case. She's definitely got her ass out in the wind re. federal
judicial sanctions, possible criminal prosecution for practicing law
without a valid license, etc.
A federal judge could whack her with sanctions if she continued to make
filings after being warned, and if she continued after that I think
could chuck her butt in jail on contempt charges. Anything more than
that, at the federal level, would require a deputy AG to bring charges,
and I'm sure that Holder and his people are leery of the political
blowback from doing so.
S. Fu
> She is obviously isn't a dummy if she passed the State of California
> Bar, but she is being very reckless for filing lawsuits (if she is
> filing lawsuits) in a myriad of US Federal Courts.
How many times did she take it?
It is a pretty tough bar exam to pass. But I've had more than one
attorney friend tell me that with a semester of black-letter law I
could probably pass it in three tries. The legal writing section is
the hard part. The black letter stuff is mostly rote memorization.
Iarnrod
> On Jul 26, 8:17 pm, "Kris Baker" <parallelcoo...@ggmail.com> wrote:
>
> > True. Military (and civilian employees) are sworn to protect their
> > country, its citizens and its officials (including the President).
>
> We are sworn to defend the constitution of the United States against
> all enemies, foreign and domestic...
Then go round up the birfers, who have a demonstrated contempt for our
Constitution.
cuh...@webtv.net
Iarnrod
> In article <4a6d1fbf$0$28347$ae266...@fe1.newsfeeds.com>,
> S. Fu <fuf...@fubar.org> wrote:
> Courts in Georgia for her Guinea Pig Army Major. She did this while
> applying for Pro Hac Vice, (for outsiders: asking to practice as a
> lawyer, in the state or the US District Court outside of lawyers bar
> license area) that is a big no-no, that is going to get her at least a
> hearing with the California Bar. Applying for a Pro Hac Vice isn't
> congruent in getting it and filing complaints in courts she isn't a
> practicing attorney in.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/nsn9g2
>
> Her actions got her client fired from his job, then when another order
> was filed to get his job back, it was dismissed because the complaint
> wasn't attached to it. That isn't good.
>
> She also write rants like this to US Federal Prosecutors...
>
> http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/?p=215
>
> "It was nice talking to you. I am really sorry for yelling at you, I
> didn't mean to."
>
> I think she has done enough to get disbarred.
Wow, that's really disturbed! Thanks for sharing. Oily Titz needs some
serious mental health intervention.
S. Fu
> In article <4a6d1fbf$0$28347$ae26...@fe1.newsfeeds.com>,
> She signed the complaint that was filed in one of the US District
> Courts in Georgia for her Guinea Pig Army Major. She did this while
> applying for Pro Hac Vice, (for outsiders: asking to practice as a
> lawyer, in the state or the US District Court outside of lawyers bar
> license area) that is a big no-no, that is going to get her at least a
> hearing with the California Bar. Applying for a Pro Hac Vice isn't
> congruent in getting it and filing complaints in courts she isn't a
> practicing attorney in.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/nsn9g2
>
> Her actions got her client fired from his job, then when another order
> was filed to get his job back, it was dismissed because the complaint
> wasn't attached to it. That isn't good.
No, it's not good. But there's some funny technicalities at work. She
can't be disbarred from a bar of which she's not a member, see? Until
she's warned or censured by the CA bar for these clearly unjustified
pro hac vice filings, she can claim to be acting in good faith. She
could be prosecuted for practicing law without a license in federal
courts, but that would require a federal prosecutor to bring charges
against her. You can understand why the Department of Justice would be
leery to do so, at least at first. Easier to just get her motions
kicked for lack of standing.
> She also write rants like this to US Federal Prosecutors...
>
> http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/?p=215
>
> "It was nice talking to you. I am really sorry for yelling at you, I
> didn't mean to."
Jeez, she can't even write a coherent, gramatically correct business
letter. I mean that's...wow, I can't believe that anyone would let
themselves be represented by her in any form.
> I think she has done enough to get disbarred.
Someone has to bring a complaint though. Her client could do it, as
well as file a suit for damages in California. But he'd need to front
the cost of hiring a real attorney in CA to do so. Has she done enough
to get censured by the CA bar? Probably. If she keeps it up will she
get disbarred? I should think so, yes. But someone has to file the
paper.
You kind of have to be "barred" in order to get disbarred. Or care
about keeping your bar membership and license to practice law. The CA
bar, like most others, is as much a protection racket for lawyers as it
is a self-policing private institution. Any lawyer will tell you that.
There's a process for getting attorneys disbarred, and even dedicated
bar courts for adjudicating the process--I used to play footie with a
bar judge actually. But just like any "private" self-policing
licensing association, members get a couple of strikes gratis before
things get really serious.
But you know what, I may be filing a censure/disbarrment complaint
myself with the CA bar soon, so I'm going to be checking up on the
technicalities anyway. I'll post any details on the process that I dig
up.
Kris Baker
news:e3b57425-02ea-4040...@w6g2000yqw.googlegroups.com...
-----------------
No one has to round them up. They've already identified themselves
as potential terrorists and homeland security threats.
Kris
Draccus
> On Jul 26, 10:47 am, Gary Forbis <forbisga...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > My mom was born at home without a physician present.
> > How could she present the document you ask to have
> > presented?
>
> You don't say where or when your mother was born. If within the United
> States I believe there are documents made at the time of your mother's
> birth that recorded the pertinent events surrounding her birth, date
> and time, weight, sex, etc. Some states wanted the order of birth and
> simeltantaneous events (1st, 3rd...twin, triplet, etc.) while others
> recorded your parents names, occupations as well as race. Most
> requirements included who were the primary attendees (in lieu of a
> physician) to the birth, i.e. midwife/family member or others
> (neighbhors/friend). If your mother was born within the United States
> it would depend on when she was born and the laws that were applicable
> to such births at the time.
>
> > In the article you cite Juan A. de Hoyos is described
> > as "a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Texas". Do you
> > know what "a naturalized U.S. citizen" means? It means
> > he wasn't born in the US. How do you suppose a document
> > of live birth outside the US is suppose to support one's
> > contention of US citizenship?
>
> The poster can answer for themselves but I supect the point was clear;
> even "a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Texas" needs to provide
> better documentation to get a passport than Obama provided to prove
> his eligibility to be the US President.
See you were doing so well right till you got here. The document the
President presented is actually the same document that anyone in every
state would present to get a passport. The Gentleman in the above
example would in fact be presented a unacceptable document especially
since as Naturalized Citizen he was not born in Texas or anywhere in
the United States, thus for him to obtain a Passport he would need to
present his paperwork showing is in fact a Naturalized Citizen a Birth
Certificate would not be among them since he was not Born here.
> IMNSHO, BHO's birth location is ALMOST secondary to his dad being
> Kenyan, i.e. British citizenship. That alone eliminates him as
> meeting the presidential criteria to be a "natural born" citizen...one
> that requires both parents to be American citizens.
Did you forget his Mother A naturally Born US Citizen thus making her
Son a s Naturally Born Citizen regardless of where in the World he had
been born. Now if you want to make this claim Mr McCain who was born
in Panama would not have been eligible to be President, is that your
argument?
Draccus
> "Info Junkie" <bondr...@att.net> wrote in message
>
> news:d12e69b0-7857-40c3...@g31g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > The poster can answer for themselves but I supect the
> > point was clear; even "a naturalized U.S. citizen
> > living in Texas" needs to provide better
> > documentation to get a passport
>
> citizen. Their citizenship papers are what they need to
> get a passport.
>
> Why would a "natural born citizen" need citizenship
> papers?
>
> > than Obama provided to prove his eligibility to be
> > the US President.
>
> citizenship? Why would Obama need more than either
> Bush?
>
> Where's YOUR citizenship papers?
>
> "As far as I can tell", you are an illegal alien.
I will give you that is as Alien but I suspect it is from another
planet and not just another country.
> Kris
> You just can't admit "it's because he's black and
> has to prove he's eligible/worthy/equal"
>
> Kris
Draccus
> "Twitchell" <Twitchell_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>
> news:h4ilk...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> Rules of attorney discipline forbid the practice of law without a
> >>> license - i.e., without sitting for and passing the bar exam, after
> >>> graduating from an ABA-accredited school. Her correspondence degree is a
> >>> limited exception, only useful in California. So, any action in which
> >>> she
> >>> appeared as counsel of record outside the state would constitute
> >>> practicing law without a license, in violation of California
> >>> disciplinary
> >>> rules. Has "Dr." Taitz violated this rule? Does her appearance before
> >>> the
> >>> Supreme Court, in filing documents for the frivolous, since-dismissed
> >>> case
> >>> Lightfoot v. Bowen, therefore subject her to discipline?
>
> >>> -------------------
>
> >>> As one comment on the forum says "[We] have the federal judiciary
> >>> including the Supreme Court, all fifty state secretaries of state, and
> >>> the
> >>> entire legal academy. [Birthers] have a dentist with a
> >>> correspondence-school legal degree."
>
> >>I do not think that the birthers as you call them need any kind of degree
> >>at
> >>all. Anyone should be able to challenge Pres. Obama's birthplace if it is
> >>questionable. People like you should wonder too if he is really a US
> >>citizen/ You stick your nose in everything else why not the birth
> >>challenge, which would be the easiest thing in the world to prove (unless
> >>it
> >>does not exist).? Methinks you might be scared of the truth, why else
> >>would you raise your usual rant?
>
> >>IMO, not proving the challenge wrong is suspicious. Look how fast he
> >>retracted his 'stupid' and 'calibrated' gaff when it was challenged by a
> >>force to be recokened with. I guess as usual no one can answer your posts
> >>without the Letter man piping in?
>
> >>Wull
>
> > Get with the program, wull. It's been proved to death. The fact that you
> > don't
> > accept it speaks poorly of your sense of logic. You're starting to sound
> > like
> > yet another Texas redneck racist who's looking for any excuse to question
> > a
> > blackman in the White House.
>
> OH, oh, another letterman. What has been proven to death? I cannot accept
> anything that is questioned if there is no answer.
There is and has been a two-fold answer number one is a birth
certificate that was provided and presented, second the Presidents
Mother was and is a Natural Citizen thus so is her offspring.
I am not a redneck nor a
> racist but you obviously are one. You sound just like the Harvard
> professor.
Would that be the same Professor arrested in his own home for breaking
into his own home after providing id showing it was in fact was his
own home and was accused of the "crime" for the only evidence being he
is a black man? That Harvard Professor? May haps you might be better
served with looking at the facts and remaining silent risking being
seen as a fool rather than opening your mouth and removing all doubt.
> Wull
>
>
> > twitch
Draccus
> On Jul 26, 3:53 pm, Iarnrod <iarn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > His birth in Hawaii makes him a natural born
> > US citizen even if both parents were Martians.
>
> What? Obama's parents were Martians?
> No wonder so many people believe he's
> an illegal allien. Can Martians even give
> natural bith to humans? I bet it was C-section
> at best.
>
> I've been trying to track down the law about
> "naturally born citizen". It seems like it has
> been left to the states to decide the rules.
> Maybe Texas has/had one rule and Hawaii
> another.
>
> Here's the current law as presented inhttp://www1.dshs.wa.gov/manuals/eaz/sections/CitizenGenElig.shtml
>
> "U.S. citizens."
>
> 1. The following individuals are considered to be citizens of the
> U.S.:
>
> a. Persons born in the U.S. or its territories (Guam, Puerto
> Rico,
> and the U.S. Virgin Islands; also residents of the Northern
> Mariana
> Islands who elected to become U.S. citizens); or
>
> b. Legal immigrants who have naturalized after immigrating to the
> U.S.
>
> 2. Persons born abroad to at least one U.S. citizen parent may be
> U.S.
> citizens under certain conditions.
>
> 3. Individuals under the age of eighteen automatically become
> citizens
> when they meet the following three conditions on or after February
> 27, 2001:
>
> a. The child is a lawful permanent resident (LPR);
>
> b. At least one of the parents is a U.S. citizen by birth or
> naturalization; and
>
> c. The child resides in the U.S. in the legal and physical
> custody of the citizen parent.
>
> 4. For those individuals who turned eighteen before February 27,
> 2001,
> the child would automatically be a citizen if still under eighteen
> when
> he or she began lawful permanent residence in the U.S. and both
> parents had naturalized. Such a child could have derived
> citizenship
> when only one parent had naturalized if the other parent were dead,
> a U.S. citizen by birth, or the parents were legally separated and
> the
> naturalizing parent had custody.
>
> Number 2 bothers me because it relies upon conditions not stated.
> Number 3 doesn't apply but bothers me because it means kids of
> dead parents who would have otherwise met the conditions wouldn't.
> Number 4 applies but is a bit confusing. I feel sorry for foreign
> born
> orphans of two naturalized citizens
>
> As it turns out if Obama had been born in Kenya then the conditions
> to #2 apply. I wish they were stated. I suspect the conditions are
> that the custodial parent be the one who was a citizen by birth.
> The problem is Obama was living with his grandparents.
>
> Again, if being born in the US was all that important there would
> be no way his mother would be overseas during late pregnancy.
Here is the Federal law on the subject:
Title 8 of the U.S. Code Section 1401 defines the following as people
who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a
citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen
of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are
citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and
lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S.
national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and
lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage
cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not
provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and
as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the
U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service
included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an
alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
Charlie
> racist but you obviously are one. You sound just like the Harvard
> professor.
>
>
> > twitch
Listen to spasm, he's just another homo who thinks obama is doing a
great job. obama can't even account for where the stimulus money is
being spent. Who cares if he was born on the North Pole, he's too
inexperienced to be the President of the US. Just look at the stupid
rookie mistake he made about Professor Gates...now they're all coming
for beer in the White House. To me this sounds like a move a lowly
Mayor would make, not the President. I guarantee you the middle class
White folks that voted him in because he talked a good game won't vote
for him again. Six months into the job and he's toast already.
Instead of raising taxes in a recession he should be cutting taxes.
And where are all these jobs he promised? From the reports I've seen
he's creating them for sure, they're called government jobs for his
people in Washington. I just can't believe how gullible people are
when they pulled that switch for this guy. But McCain was no better.
It's good to get this one termer out of office and elect someone with
some real sense. Who that is it's too early to tell. But bambi will
be like Carter and Bush Sr., a one termer.
Info Junkie
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:18:36 -0700 (PDT), Info Junkie
>
> <bondr...@att.net> wrote:
> >The poster can answer for themselves but I supect the point was clear;
> >even "a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Texas" needs to provide
> >his eligibility to be the US President.
>
> t hat if 99% of the entire United States, it's
> government, and any other instituiton you can
> name---has provided and/or accepts the evidence
> presented to support the veracity of Obama's
> Citizenship---that YOU (and the tin-foil group you
> belong to) should reason you're looking a LOT stupid as
> the weeks and months go by.
...and once upon a time many "accepted" the earth was flat.
If you claim were true (how did you come to the 99% conclusion?
evidence please), BHO would have no problem completing a I-9
form....EXCEPT, that C.O.L.B (Certificate of Live Birth), i.e. "short
form" that's been presented as evdience having been "accepted" by
sheepl...uh, others, is NOT acceptable to complete that form ...even
for natural born citizens.
"A birth certificate issued by the U.S. State Department (Form FS-545
or Form DS-1350) Original or certified copy of a birth certificate
from the U.S. or an outlying possession of the U.S., bearing an
official seal". This form requires the applicate to provide a birth
certificate, NOT a "Certificate of Live Birth".
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)).
There's no dispute that BHO's dad was a Kenyan. At his birth BHO II
falls under the jurisdiction of British Nationality Act (1948)
because his dad was a Kenyan, NOT a naturalized US citizen and his
mother being 18 yrs old, was too young to confer citizenship upon her
children. Under the laws in force at the time of his birth (both
Hawiian and the federal) these facts alone exclude his being a natural
born citizen.
Amendment XIV:
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and SUBJECT TO
THE JURISDICTION thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the
state wherein they reside." (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/
constitution.amendmentxiv.html)
Since BHO's dad was a Kenyan, i.e. a colony under British law, "As a
Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose
citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of
1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s
children." (http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/27/the-siren-call-of-
judicial-activism/)
BHObama admitted as much in his book, “Dreams From My Father” as
being under British law.
"Natural-Born Citizen Defined
...Under the laws of nature, every child born requires no act of law
to establish the fact the child inherits through nature his/her
father’s citizenship as well as his name (or even his property)
through birth. This law of nature is also recognized by law of
nations. Sen. Howard said the citizenship clause under the Fourteenth
Amendment was by virtue of “natural law and national law"...
...Rep. John A. Bingham (said this means) “every human being born
within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing
allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your
Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st
Sess., 1291 (1866))
Bingham subscribed to the same view as most everyone in Congress...in
order to be born a citizen of the United States one must be born
within the allegiance of the Nation. Bingham (explained) that to be
born within the allegiance of the United States the parents, or more
precisely, the father, must not owe allegiance to some other foreign
sovereignty"
(http://federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural-born_citizen_defined.html)
Kris Baker
news:434df946-bb4e-4984...@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>"A birth certificate issued by the U.S. State Department (Form FS-545
>or Form DS-1350) Original or certified copy of a birth certificate
>from the U.S. or an outlying possession of the U.S., bearing an
>official seal". This form requires the applicate to provide a birth
>certificate, NOT a "Certificate of Live Birth".
>(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)).
What bullshit site did you cut/paste that bunch of crap from?
That paragraph doesn't even appear on the Wikipedia page
you're giving the URL for....and it's a page that refers to employment,
anyway.
Jesus Teabaggin' Christ, you fool.
------------------
Obama's Birth Certificate: Why the controversy won't go away (hilarious)
By Selected News Articles :: 1128 Views :: Hawaii State News, Hawaii State
Politics, National News, National Politics, World News, World Politics
ED NOTE: Front Page Magazine today posted the Hawai`i Free Press article
"Barack Obama, born in Hawaii"--debunking conspiracy theories swirling
around Barack Obama's Hawaii birth certificate. The following was posted by
an anonymous commenter "DadBode" in the comments section and we thought it
was so spot-on and funny that it deserves wider exposure. For readers
working in State offices who have taken birth-certificate-related phone
calls, this should be of special interest.
by "DadBode"
This is why:
Birther: "Oh why won't Barack Obama release his birth certificate? If only
he did that simple little thing, we could put this whole matter to rest. And
it would only cost him ten dollars."
Rational Person (RP): "Didn't you see the birth certificate he posted
online?"
Birther: "Anyone could have Photoshopped that. In fact, I saw an anonymous
guy on the Internet claim that he could prove it was faked. He's an expert
in 'instructional media.'"
RP: "You do realize that 'instructional media' doesn't have anything to do
with document analysis, right?"
Birther: "Regardless, it's still fake. If Obama truly had nothing to hide,
he'd release his long-form birth certificate, not this computer printout."
RP: "How should he release it? If he simply posted a scan online, wouldn't
you accuse it of being faked?"
Birther: "Oh, certainly. Anything he produces shouldn't be trusted unless
it's reviewed by a competent authority, like a judge."
RP: "So if Obama obtained his long-form birth certificate, published it, had
a judge review it, and then the judge announced that it was legit and he was
born in Hawaii, that would be enough? You'd give up arguing that his
election is illegitimate, stop filing lawsuits, and concede that he's
eligible to be President?"
Birther: "Hardly. For all we know, Obama's parents could have lied to
Hawaiian officials, and claimed he was born in Hawaii, when he was actually
born in Kenya. Or Canada. For all we know, Hawaiian officials themselves
might be in on the cover-up."
RP: "What if it can be proven beyond a doubt that the birth certificate is
real and accurate, and that he was born in Hawaii. Let's say there's a video
of John F. Kennedy himself playing midwife to Ann Dunham. Would that settle
the matter?"
Birther: "It'd settle the matter of where he was born. But that doesn't mean
he's a natural-born citizen and eligible to be President."
RP: "Why?"
Birther: "Because before he was born, his mother married a British citizen.
That means she gave up her American citizenship even before he was born. And
Obama can't be a natural-born citizen if neither of his parents were
American citizens."
RP: "So you're begging Obama to release his birth certificate, even though
you admit it won't actually stop your complaints."
Birther: "That's right."
RP: "Well, what if I can show you that American citizens don't give up their
American citizenship when they marry foreigners? Will that put this to
rest?"
Birther: "Oh, no. Even if I accepted that he was born in Hawaii, and that
his mother was still an American citizen, his father was still a Kenyan and
British citizen, and that means Obama inherited dual citizenship and thus
wasn't a natural-born citizen. So he can't be President."
RP: "I see. For the sake of argument, then, let's say that I could show you
that there's no requirement that a natural-born citizen be born of two U.S.
citizens. Would that satisfy you?"
Birther: "Sorry, but no. Even if the birth certificate proves he was born in
Hawaii, and he could show that his mother was a U.S. citizen when he was
born, and that his father's citizenship didn't disqualify him, there's still
the matter of Indonesia."
RP: "What does Indonesia have to do with anything?"
Birther: "When Obama's mother married Lolo Soetoro, she gave up her U.S.
citizenship, and by proxy, Obama's U.S. citizenship. So he can't be
President."
RP: "No, it doesn't work that way. Didn't we already cover this with her
first marriage?"
Birther: "It doesn't matter. Even if her marriage didn't invalidate his
citizenship, when Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, he ceased to be a U.S.
natural-born citizen. So he can't be President."
RP: "A minor child can't surrender his U.S. citizenship that way. Besides,
there's no evidence that he was adopted in the first place."
Birther: "Even if that's the case, he's still not in the clear. Because when
he traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on his Indonesian passport, he gave up his
U.S. citizenship."
RP: "Apart from the fact that that wouldn't have sacrificed his citizenship,
do you actually have any direct evidence that he in fact did use an
Indonesian passport?"
Birther: "Not direct evidence. But American passport holders weren't allowed
into Pakistan in 1981."
RP: "Do you have any evidence that that is actually true about travel to
Pakistan in 1981?"
Birther: "No."
RP: "I see. OK, if you put aside the passport, would you concede that he's
eligible to be President?"
Birther: "Still no. When Obama was adopted, his name was legally changed to
'Barry Soetoro.' There's no proof he ever changed his name back, but he ran
for President as 'Barack Obama.' And that violates election law. I will
never accept his Presidency until I see the documentation where he changed
his name back to Obama."
RP: "That's impossible. How can he possibly produce that documentation, when
he never changed his name away from Obama in the first place? What proof is
there that he was ever legally adopted or changed his name? And even if he
was adopted, what possible reason would there be to legally change his first
name to a nickname?"
Birther: "A school application in Indonesia says his last name was
'Soetoro.' They take those applications very seriously in Indonesia, so this
is solid legal proof that he was adopted and had a name change."
RP: "And the fact that the same application says he was born in Hawaii?"
Birther: "That was a mistake."
RP: "OK, so to recap, you wanted Obama to release a birth certificate, but
when he did, you accused it of being a forgery? Right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "And you say that if he simply shared his long-form birth certificate
with the public, that could be forged too? Right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "So you want him to release his long-form birth certificate and to have
that birth certificate reviewed by a judge, to satisfy his critics and
answer the questions they're asking? Right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "And if the judge affirms that the birth certificate is legitimate and
it says his place of birth was Hawaii, you say it might be falsified,
right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "And even if he proves he was born in Hawaii, you claim he's still not a
natural-born citizen because of his mother's first marriage, right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "And if he then proves that the marriage isn't an issue, you claim he's
still not a natural-born citizen because of his father's citizenship,
right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "And if he then proves that his father's citizenship isn't an issue, you
claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother's second
marriage, right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "And if he then proves that his mother's second marriage isn't an issue,
you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his supposed
adoption, right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "And if he then proves that he didn't give up his citizenship via
adoption, you claim that he's still not a natural-born citizen because of
his 1981 travel to Pakistan, right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "And if he then proves that he didn't give up his citizenship via
passport, and even when you run out of citizenship arguments completely, you
then claim his election is illegitimate because his legal surname is
Soetoro, right?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "So you want to know why Obama won't take the simple measure of
releasing his birth certificate, when you already have at least eight
consecutive fall-back arguments you'll make if he does so, whereby you'll
continue to insist that he's ineligible for the Presidency even after he
proves that he was born in Hawaii?"
Birther: "Right."
RP: "Y'know, if I were Obama, I think I'd save my ten dollars too."
gully
secret Obama loyalists who are using it to deflect attention from the
economy, don't you?
How does it feel to be duped?
Info Junkie
> "Info Junkie" <bondr...@att.net> wrote in message
>
> news:434df946-bb4e-4984...@w41g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >"A birth certificate issued by the U.S. State Department (Form FS-545
> >or Form DS-1350) Original or certified copy of a birth certificate
> >from the U.S. or an outlying possession of the U.S., bearing an
> >official seal". This form requires the applicate to provide a birth
> >certificate, NOT a "Certificate of Live Birth".
> >(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)).
>
> What bullshit site did you cut/paste that bunch of crap from?
Since you're having so much trouble comprehending how to access a web
site via a URL vs parentheses, let me help you out. (see below)
> That paragraph doesn't even appear on the Wikipedia page
> you're giving the URL for....and it's a page that refers to employment,
> anyway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf
(review the List of Acceptable Documents)
The I-9 form is the federal document used to provide employers a list
of what the federal government considers acceptable legal
documentation of proof of an employees citizenship status.
The "short form", i.e. the Certificate of Live Birth (C.O.L.B) that
has been claimed as BHO's "birth certificate" has never been accepted
as proof of US citizenship.
(snip irrational nonsense). The claim that BHO's "birth certificate"
was posted online is a lie. The documents I see are a Certificate of
Live Birth.
Noted is your failure to address the facts and other web sites posted
as evidence.
Info Junkie
I agree...if all BHO applied for was a US passport. However the level
of scrutiny to obtain a passport is lower than applying for
employment. The documentation BHO provided is NOT acceptable to the
level of scrutiny found for the I-9 form...a level that has not shown
to be qualified as POTUS. (IMHO)
>The Gentleman in the above
> example would in fact be presented a unacceptable document
I think you meant "presenting" an unacceptable document, eh? That may
be true...but that "Gentleman" did not run for POTUS.
>...especially
> since as Naturalized Citizen he was not born in Texas or anywhere in
> the United States, thus for him to obtain a Passport he would need to
> present his paperwork showing is in fact a Naturalized Citizen a Birth
> Certificate would not be among them since he was not Born here.
When obtaining a US passport, it's necessary to prove US citizenship,
not natural born citizenship. When applying for a US Passport and
primary evidence isn't available, secondary evidence will suffice*.
This includes:
"Baptismal certificate
Hospital birth certificate
Census record
Early school record
Family bible record
Doctor's record of post-natal care"
*http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/Secondary%20Evidence/Secondary
%20Evidence_4315.html
In the link(s) I provided, the I-9 form doesn't accept a Certificate
of Live Birth as evidence, and the birth certificate the applicant
must provide contains the original, raised-seal documentation.
Secondary evidence allowable for a US Passport is unacceptable for the
I-9 form. Heck, even BHO school records have not been released.
> > IMNSHO, BHO's birth location is ALMOST secondary to his dad being
> > Kenyan, i.e. British citizenship. That alone eliminates him as
> > meeting the presidential criteria to be a "natural born" citizen...one
> > that requires both parents to be American citizens.
>
> Did you forget his Mother A naturally Born US Citizen thus making her
> Son a s Naturally Born Citizen regardless of where in the World he had
> been born.
Well, first I noted you "snipped" (as in ignored) where I posted;
"Since BHO's dad was a Kenyan, i.e. ...a British subject whose
citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of
1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s
children." (http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/27/the-siren-call-of-
judicial-activism/)
BHObama admitted as much in his book, “Dreams From My Father” as
"being under British law." During this time frame this make his
mother's citizenship irrelevent.
Secondly, if you wish to use BHO's mother as the origin of his
citizenship then:
BHO was born between 12-24-1952 and 11-13-1986. The law at that time
stated... ...If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the
child's birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for
at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of
16.
This means for his mother to pass citizenhip to her son, she had to
had been in the United States for at least five years after she turned
16 years old.* However, when BHO was born, his mother was only 18 not
21, making her ineligible to pass on her citizenship to him. That
returns the issue to the citizenship of his Kenyan dad...a British
subject.
*http://immigration.findlaw.com/immigration/immigration-citizenship-
naturalization/immigration-citizenship-naturalization-did-you-know
(1).html
>Now if you want to make this claim Mr McCain who was born
> in Panama would not have been eligible to be President, is that your
> argument?- Hide quoted text -
Ah, the apples vs oranges argument. John McCain's parents were both US
citizens with his dad an Navy Admiral serving in Panama. Unlike BHO,
ALL documentation regarding John McCain's birth and schooling was made
available to the public.
Draccus
Good to see you are still as ape-shit crazy as ever without a basic
understanding of the facts or the law, thanks for not disappointing.
Draccus
Oh now that is complete horse shit from someone who has never filled
them out from the Government I can tell. The short form is the
expected form that the Birth Certificate will come in never do they
expect the long form and it is what we refer to when we speak of the
Birth Certificate.
> (snip irrational nonsense). The claim that BHO's "birth certificate"
> was posted online is a lie. The documents I see are a Certificate of
> Live Birth.
THAT IS A BIRTH CERTIFICATE YOU MORON. As certified by the State of
Hawaii it is similar to what I presented to get a new enhanced Drivers
license here in New York.
> Noted is your failure to address the facts and other web sites posted
> as evidence.
Try and get the actual facts correct and we will address them.
Draccus
No it is not moron as US passport is an acceptable document for
employment. Yes it is moron if you were not so stupid and blind. I
have filled the I-9 out since it started as an employer and submitted
them with copies of the same document as the POTUS presented and not
one has ever been rejected.
> >The Gentleman in the above
> > example would in fact be presented a unacceptable document
>
> I think you meant "presenting" an unacceptable document, eh? That may
> be true...but that "Gentleman" did not run for POTUS.
Nor has anyone ever running for POTUS been asked or required to
present such a document.
> >...especially
> > since as Naturalized Citizen he was not born in Texas or anywhere in
> > the United States, thus for him to obtain a Passport he would need to
> > present his paperwork showing is in fact a Naturalized Citizen a Birth
> > Certificate would not be among them since he was not Born here.
>
> When obtaining a US passport, it's necessary to prove US citizenship,
> not natural born citizenship. When applying for a US Passport and
> primary evidence isn't available, secondary evidence will suffice*.
> This includes:
> "Baptismal certificate
> Hospital birth certificate
> Census record
> Early school record
> Family bible record
> Doctor's record of post-natal care"
Spoken as someone not having applied for a passport since 2001. Not
even close second Natural Born IS someone born of at least one Parent
who is a US Citizen or is born in a state or territory of the United
States. Now if you want to argue this McCain would not be a natural
born citizen as he was born in Panama.
> *http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/Secondary%20Evidence/Secondary
> %20Evidence_4315.html
>
> In the link(s) I provided, the I-9 form doesn't accept a Certificate
> of Live Birth as evidence, and the birth certificate the applicant
> must provide contains the original, raised-seal documentation.
> Secondary evidence allowable for a US Passport is unacceptable for the
> I-9 form. Heck, even BHO school records have not been released.
A Birth Certificate it a Certificate of Live Birth by another name it
is the form that not only accepted but expected, as it does in fact
bear the raised seal. If you were not so stupid you might have checked
your facts.
Draccus
Please show where Mr. McCain provided anything? I am waiting....
Day Brown
> Noted is your failure to address the facts and other web sites posted
> as evidence.
I'm a bastard. My mom didnt get married until 22 months after I was born
on a farm. Nobody came out there to see if what was recorded was fact.
But then, her husband adopted me and they want back to the courthouse
and... THEY CHANGED THE FUCKING BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
Then, after I got married, and adopted her daughter, we went back to the
courthouse and CHANGED THE FUCKING BIRTH CERTIFICATE.
I also witnessed a birth in a house back in the Ozark boonies. Nobody
had the paper work there. They went to town later and filled it out.
Nobody asked any questions. Hello?
This kind of thing has always gone on. The fact does not matter, the
paper work does, whether it represents the truth or not.
Josh Rosenbluth
>
>
> If you claim were true (how did you come to the 99% conclusion?
> evidence please), BHO would have no problem completing a I-9
> form....EXCEPT, that C.O.L.B (Certificate of Live Birth), i.e. "short
> form" that's been presented as evdience having been "accepted" by
> sheepl...uh, others, is NOT acceptable to complete that form ...even
> for natural born citizens.
>
> "A birth certificate issued by the U.S. State Department (Form FS-545
> or Form DS-1350) Original or certified copy of a birth certificate
> from the U.S. or an outlying possession of the U.S., bearing an
> official seal". This form requires the applicate to provide a birth
> certificate, NOT a "Certificate of Live Birth".
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)).
I'm pretty sure Obama would have no problem completing an I-9, given it
only requires a U.S. Passport (one form List A).
Josh Rosenbluth
Josh Rosenbluth
>
> IMNSHO, BHO's birth location is ALMOST secondary to his dad being
> Kenyan, i.e. British citizenship.
Why almost? You make it sound like it is a close call for someone born
in the USA of a British citizen as to whether they are a natural born
citizen. It isn't a close call - they are a natural born citizen.
Josh Rosenbluth
Kris Baker
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)
Wikipedia is not a source of legal documentation,
nor did that page include the information you claimed
it did.
> http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf
>(review the List of Acceptable Documents)
Do you realize that you've just denied your entire argument,
since that list does **not** exempt certificates of live birth.
Are you trying to say that the citizens of other states (AND
Hawaii) who are issued "Certificate of Live Birth" are NOT
citizens, could not be employed, nor be issued a US
passport?
Goodbye. I'll bet you'll drag up Malkin next.
Kris
The UNeducable should be institutionalized
Kris Baker
news:h546og$d82$1...@josh.motzarella.org...
Don't bother with Info Junkie. She's really "Junkie, Info"
Kris
Iarnrod
> On Jul 27, 9:18 am, Knick...@uh-oh-click.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 26 Jul 2009 11:18:36 -0700 (PDT), Info Junkie
>
> > <bondr...@att.net> wrote:
> > >The poster can answer for themselves but I supect the point was clear;
> > >even "a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Texas" needs to provide
> > >better documentation to get a passport than Obama provided to prove
> > >his eligibility to be the US President.
>
> > Even a simple minded idiot should be able to figure out
> > t hat if 99% of the entire United States, it's
> > government, and any other instituiton you can
> > name---has provided and/or accepts the evidence
> > presented to support the veracity of Obama's
> > Citizenship---that YOU (and the tin-foil group you
> > belong to) should reason you're looking a LOT stupid as
> > the weeks and months go by.
>
> ...and once upon a time many "accepted" the earth was flat.
>
> If you claim were true (how did you come to the 99% conclusion?
> evidence please), BHO would have no problem completing a I-9
> form....EXCEPT, that C.O.L.B (Certificate of Live Birth), i.e. "short
> form" that's been presented as evdience having been "accepted" by
> sheepl...uh, others, is NOT acceptable to complete that form ...even
> for natural born citizens.
Then your point is immaterial, cupcake.
But you're lying anyway. The COLB is complete proof of natural born
citizenship. DHS I-9 instructions say so explicitly.
> "A birth certificate issued by the U.S. State Department (Form FS-545
> or Form DS-1350) Original or certified copy of a birth certificate
> from the U.S. or an outlying possession of the U.S., bearing an
> official seal". This form requires the applicate to provide a birth
> certificate, NOT a "Certificate of Live Birth".
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)).
Sorry, but the COLB **is** a certified copy of the birth certificate.
It's what nearly ALL STATES issue now when you request a certified
copy of your birth certificate.
> There's no dispute that BHO's dad was a Kenyan. At his birth BHO II
> falls under the jurisdiction of British Nationality Act (1948)
> because his dad was a Kenyan, NOT a naturalized US citizen and his
> mother being 18 yrs old, was too young to confer citizenship upon her
> children.
That's a lie.
And since Obama was born in Honolulu, nothing else matters. His
parents could be two Martians and he would still be a natural born
citizen eligible to be elected POTUS.
> Under the laws in force at the time of his birth (both
> Hawiian and the federal) these facts alone exclude his being a natural
> born citizen.
That's a complete and utter lie. Under the 14th Amendment, ANYONE born
on US soil is a natural born US citizen (excluding foreign diplomats
here on assignment).
> Amendment XIV:
> "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and SUBJECT TO
> THE JURISDICTION thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the
> state wherein they reside." (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/
> constitution.amendmentxiv.html)
That proves you wrong and me right.
> Since BHO's dad was a Kenyan, i.e. a colony under British law, "As a
> Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose
> citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of
> 1948.
That has nothing to do with his son, who being born on US soild is a
natural born US citizen.
> That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s
> children." (http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/27/the-siren-call-of-
> judicial-activism/)
Malkin is a lying sack of shit, like you. This is well settled
citizenship law.
> BHObama admitted as much in his book, “Dreams From My Father” as
> being under British law.
Which you don't understand.
> "Natural-Born Citizen Defined
> ...Under the laws of nature, every child born requires no act of law
> to establish the fact the child inherits through nature his/her
> father’s citizenship as well as his name (or even his property)
> through birth. This law of nature is also recognized by law of
> nations. Sen. Howard said the citizenship clause under the Fourteenth
> Amendment was by virtue of “natural law and national law"...
That again proves you wrong.
> ...Rep. John A. Bingham (said this means) “every human being born
> within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing
> allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your
> Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st
> Sess., 1291 (1866))
This has nothing to do with Obama. Bingham's statement is incomplete,
you moron. The ones he describes are not the ONLY natural born
citizens. You would leave out John McCain, born outside the
jurisdiction of the US.
> Bingham subscribed to the same view as most everyone in Congress...in
> order to be born a citizen of the United States one must be born
> within the allegiance of the Nation.
Obama was.
> Bingham (explained) that to be
> born within the allegiance of the United States the parents, or more
> precisely, the father, must not owe allegiance to some other foreign
> sovereignty"
> (http://federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural-born_citizen_defined.html)
He does not say any such thing. That's merely your lying about it.
Iarnrod
That, dearie, *is* a birth certificate.
Imaginary Friend
I absolutely DEMAND to see his long form Kenyan B.C. and you have
~no~ credibility until you produce it!
Iarnrod
Yes, it absolutely is. The I-9 instructions even say so. Why are you
lying?
> a level that has not shown
> to be qualified as POTUS. (IMHO)
Wrong.
> >...especially
> > since as Naturalized Citizen he was not born in Texas or anywhere in
> > the United States, thus for him to obtain a Passport he would need to
> > present his paperwork showing is in fact a Naturalized Citizen a Birth
> > Certificate would not be among them since he was not Born here.
>
> When obtaining a US passport, it's necessary to prove US citizenship,
> not natural born citizenship. When applying for a US Passport and
> primary evidence isn't available, secondary evidence will suffice*.
> This includes:
> "Baptismal certificate
> Hospital birth certificate
> Census record
> Early school record
> Family bible record
> Doctor's record of post-natal care"
>
> *http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/Secondary%20Evidence/Secondary
> %20Evidence_4315.html
>
> In the link(s) I provided, the I-9 form doesn't accept a Certificate
> of Live Birth as evidence,
Yes it does.
> and the birth certificate the applicant
> must provide contains the original, raised-seal documentation.
Obama's does. You can even see it online.
> Secondary evidence allowable for a US Passport is unacceptable for the
> I-9 form. Heck, even BHO school records have not been released.
Nor do they need to for any reason.
Nor were McCain's.
> > > IMNSHO, BHO's birth location is ALMOST secondary to his dad being
> > > Kenyan, i.e. British citizenship. That alone eliminates him as
> > > meeting the presidential criteria to be a "natural born" citizen...one
> > > that requires both parents to be American citizens.
>
> > Did you forget his Mother A naturally Born US Citizen thus making her
> > Son a s Naturally Born Citizen regardless of where in the World he had
> > been born.
>
> Well, first I noted you "snipped" (as in ignored) where I posted;
> "Since BHO's dad was a Kenyan, i.e. ...a British subject whose
> citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of
> 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s
> children." (http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/27/the-siren-call-of-
> judicial-activism/)
No, it did not. Not at all.
> BHObama admitted as much in his book, “Dreams From My Father” as
> "being under British law." During this time frame this make his
> mother's citizenship irrelevent.
No it doesn't. His birth in Honolulu makes either parents' citizenship
immaterial.
> Secondly, if you wish to use BHO's mother as the origin of his
> citizenship then:
> BHO was born between 12-24-1952 and 11-13-1986. The law at that time
> stated... ...If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of the
> child's birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for
> at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of
> 16.
>
> This means for his mother to pass citizenhip to her son, she had to
> had been in the United States for at least five years after she turned
> 16 years old.*
You're wrong. You don't understand the law.
The law you cite applies only to births OUTSIDE the US.
If a 15-year-old girl gives birth inside the US, her child is a
natural born citizen eben though it's not possible for her to have
lived here five years after turning 16 (actually the law in effect at
the time of Obama's birth said after 14, not 16).
> However, when BHO was born, his mother was only 18 not
> 21, making her ineligible to pass on her citizenship to him.
Wrong. The law you cite only refers to births outside the US.
> That
> returns the issue to the citizenship of his Kenyan dad...a British
> subject.
No, it doesn't.
Under all the laws affecting this situation, Obama would have had to
renounce his US citizenship when he reached 18 and affirmatively
chosen Kenyan citizenship. He did not do this. Therefore, he is not a
Kenyan citizen and under no circumstances could he EVER be considered
as a British citizen
> >Now if you want to make this claim Mr McCain who was born
> > in Panama would not have been eligible to be President, is that your
> > argument?- Hide quoted text -
>
> Ah, the apples vs oranges argument. John McCain's parents were both US
> citizens with his dad an Navy Admiral serving in Panama.
Thus putting into question whether he truly is a natural born citizen,
unlike Obama who clearly is.
> Unlike BHO,
> ALL documentation regarding John McCain's birth and schooling was made
> available to the public.
That is a lie. McCain REFUSED to disclose his USNA transcripts and his
Panamanian birth certificate. Why are you lying?
Info Junkie
False. I've recently updated my Passport and my COLB was NOT an
acceptable document. I was required to obtain a certified copy of my
birth certificate (long "vault" form).
>Not
> even close second Natural Born IS someone born of at least one Parent
> who is a US Citizen or is born in a state or territory of the United
> States. Now if you want to argue this McCain would not be a natural
> born citizen as he was born in Panama.
In reviewing John Mccain's birth conditions I would agree that he also
was not eligible to be POTUS.
> > *http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/Secondary%20Evidence/Secondary
> > %20Evidence_4315.html
>
> > In the link(s) I provided, the I-9 form doesn't accept a Certificate
> > of Live Birth as evidence, and the birth certificate the applicant
> > must provide contains the original, raised-seal documentation.
> > Secondary evidence allowable for a US Passport is unacceptable for the
> > I-9 form. Heck, even BHO school records have not been released.
>
> A Birth Certificate it a Certificate of Live Birth by another name it
> is the form that not only accepted but expected,
Absolute nonsense and unlike you, I've provided the evidence that
refutes your claims
>s it does in fact
> bear the raised seal. If you were not so stupid you might have checked
> your facts.
A raised seal on a COLB only acknowledges it is a "Certified Copy: A
copy of the document contained in the court file. It includes a
stamped seal confirming that the copy is indeed a true and correct
copy of the document contained in the court file."* What is in the
"court file"...but a certificate of Live Birth. No matter how often
claimed otherwise, a COLB is NOT the same as a Birth Certificate in
the eyes of the law....especially back in the early 1960's.
*http://en.mimi.hu/law/seal.html
Unlike stillborns where Hawaiian law requires a "fetal death
certificate" is issued for those stillborn within the state of Hawaii,
a certified copy of a "Live Birth" only certifies the child was born
alive....but not necessarily in the state of Hawaii.
It's been shown ad nauseum that Hawaii provided COLBs to those born
outside of the state of Hawaii:
"[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
(a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor
child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such
adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director
of health that the legal parents of such individual while living
without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or
State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year
immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child....
(http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/
HRS_0338-0017_0008.HTM)
Re-read what the Hawaiian law was at the time of BHO's birth; e.g., as
long "an adult or the legal parents of a minor child," provide proof
of "their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding
the birth or adoption of such child...." a Certificate of Live Birth
may be issued "for children born out of State. "
> > available to the public.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Info Junkie
> "Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbl...@gotcha.comcast.net> wrote in message
Ah...more ad hominem but little more.
Peace and Justice
Josh Rosenbluth
>
>
> False. I've recently updated my Passport and my COLB was NOT an
> acceptable document. I was required to obtain a certified copy of my
> birth certificate (long "vault" form).
As I said earlier, Hawaii no longer issues the long form.
<http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl>
If you are correct, that means no person born in Hawaii after the state
stopped issuing long forms can update their Passport. That can't be right.
>>Not
>>even close second Natural Born IS someone born of at least one Parent
>>who is a US Citizen or is born in a state or territory of the United
>>States. Now if you want to argue this McCain would not be a natural
>>born citizen as he was born in Panama.
>
>
> In reviewing John Mccain's birth conditions I would agree that he also
> was not eligible to be POTUS.
Both of his parents were citizens. That's almost certainly good enough,
not to mention he was born outside the USA only because his dad was
serving in the Navy. So, McCain should be ineligible to be President
because his dad was defending the country - how fucked up is that?
Josh Rosenbluth
Iarnrod
> On Aug 2, 2:29 am, Draccus <draccus...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 1, 11:34 pm, Info Junkie <bondr...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > (Newsgroups trimmed)
> > > On Jul 27, 11:25 pm, Draccus <draccus...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >...especially
> > > > since as Naturalized Citizen he was not born in Texas or anywhere in
> > > > the United States, thus for him to obtain a Passport he would need to
> > > > present his paperwork showing is in fact a Naturalized Citizen a Birth
> > > > Certificate would not be among them since he was not Born here.
>
> > > When obtaining a US passport, it's necessary to prove US citizenship,
> > > not natural born citizenship. When applying for a US Passport and
> > > primary evidence isn't available, secondary evidence will suffice*.
> > > This includes:
> > > "Baptismal certificate
> > > Hospital birth certificate
> > > Census record
> > > Early school record
> > > Family bible record
> > > Doctor's record of post-natal care"
>
> > Spoken as someone not having applied for a passport since 2001.
>
> False. I've recently updated my Passport and my COLB was NOT an
> acceptable document. I was required to obtain a certified copy of my
> birth certificate (long "vault" form).
No you weren’t. You’re lying.
A COLB is a completely acceptable document for obtaining a US passport
for a citizen born in the US. I used it; two of my kids used it. We
were not asked for anything more, in fact we got an EXPEDITED passport
for my daughter to meet the schedule of the trip ON A COLB ALONE.
> >Not
> > even close second Natural Born IS someone born of at least one Parent
> > who is a US Citizen or is born in a state or territory of the United
> > States. Now if you want to argue this McCain would not be a natural
> > born citizen as he was born in Panama.
>
> In reviewing John Mccain's birth conditions I would agree that he also
> was not eligible to be POTUS.
I would argue that he is, but it would be up to SCOTUS to settle.
Obama certainly is.
> > > *http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/Secondary%20Evidence/Secondary
> > > %20Evidence_4315.html
>
> > > In the link(s) I provided, the I-9 form doesn't accept a Certificate
> > > of Live Birth as evidence, and the birth certificate the applicant
> > > must provide contains the original, raised-seal documentation.
> > > Secondary evidence allowable for a US Passport is unacceptable for the
> > > I-9 form. Heck, even BHO school records have not been released.
>
> > A Birth Certificate it a Certificate of Live Birth by another name it
> > is the form that not only accepted but expected,
>
> Absolute nonsense
Nope. True.
> and unlike you, I've provided the evidence that
> refutes your claims
No you haven’t. He DID provide evidence while YOU did not. You’ve
provided nothing but your claim while the truth is otherwise.
> >s it does in fact
> > bear the raised seal. If you were not so stupid you might have checked
> > your facts.
>
> A raised seal on a COLB only acknowledges it is a "Certified Copy: A
> copy of the document contained in the court file. It includes a
> stamped seal confirming that the copy is indeed a true and correct
> copy of the document contained in the court file."* What is in the
> "court file"...but a certificate of Live Birth. No matter how often
> claimed otherwise, a COLB is NOT the same as a Birth Certificate in
> the eyes of the law....especially back in the early 1960's.
> *http://en.mimi.hu/law/seal.html
Yes it is.
Nothing is in a “court file.” The BC is in the Hawaii Department of
Health files, not in any court.
> Unlike stillborns where Hawaiian law requires a "fetal death
> certificate" is issued for those stillborn within the state of Hawaii,
> a certified copy of a "Live Birth" only certifies the child was born
> alive....but not necessarily in the state of Hawaii.
Bzzzzzzttt! LIE. “City, Town or Location of Birth: HONOLULU.” Honolulu
is in the state of Hawaii, therefore Obama’s birth was in the state of
Hawaii. CASE CLOSED.
> It's been shown ad nauseum that Hawaii provided COLBs to those born
> outside of the state of Hawaii:
LIE.
It has been shown AD NAUSEUM to you nauseating racist kookshit
rightards that the registration of a foreign birth DOES NOT PERMIT
that the COLB would say birth was in Hawaii. In fact, a foreign birth
registration MUST INCLDE A PROVEN LOCATION of the foreign birth. If
Obama had been born in Kenya and his family got a Hawaiian COLB, it
would NECESSARILY say “Location of Birth: Kenya.” It could not say
Honolulu if the birth was not in Honolulu.
You FAIL.
> "[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.
> (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor
> child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such
> adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director
> of health that the legal parents of such individual while living
> without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or
> State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year
> immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child....
> (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/
> HRS_0338-0017_0008.HTM)
>
> Re-read what the Hawaiian law was at the time of BHO's birth; e.g., as
> long "an adult or the legal parents of a minor child," provide proof
> of "their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding
> the birth or adoption of such child...." a Certificate of Live Birth
> may be issued "for children born out of State. "
AND the certificate could NEVER say Honolulu if he had not been born
there, kooker.
You got nothing here. You’re toast, kookshit.
Kris Baker
news:bb6baab0-4551-4b94...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 12, 8:20 am, Info Junkie <bondr...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> *http://en.mimi.hu/law/seal.html
>
> Yes it is.
Jesus Teabagging Christ. They're depending on HUNGARIAN
websites now, to "prove" things?
Kris
Info Junkie
>
> - Show quoted text -
That "dearie" is a Certification of Live Birth...as opposed to say...a
Stillborn....and is available to children not born in the United
States
Info Junkie
Go back to wearing your tin hat sonny..
Info Junkie
wrote:
> Info Junkie wrote:
>
> > False. I've recently updated my Passport and my COLB was NOT an
> > acceptable document. I was required to obtain a certified copy of my
> > birth certificate (long "vault" form).
>
> As I said earlier, Hawaii no longer issues the long form.
>
> <http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl>
>
> If you are correct, that means no person born in Hawaii after the state
> stopped issuing long forms can update their Passport. That can't be right.
I'v eaddress your pouints above in a differenrt post.
> >>Not
> >>even close second Natural Born IS someone born of at least one Parent
> >>who is a US Citizen or is born in a state or territory of the United
> >>States. Now if you want to argue this McCain would not be a natural
> >>born citizen as he was born in Panama.
>
> > In reviewing John Mccain's birth conditions I would agree that he also
> > was not eligible to be POTUS.
>
> Both of his parents were citizens. That's almost certainly good enough,
> not to mention he was born outside the USA only because his dad was
> serving in the Navy. So, McCain should be ineligible to be President
> because his dad was defending the country - how fucked up is that?
>
> Josh Rosenbluth
I agree with you wrt J McCain's families military service Mr
Rosenbluth ...but the rules are the rules. McCain was born in an area
not under the legal jurisdiction of a US embassy, making his birth as
falling short of meeting the criteria of Natural Born citizenship and
ineligible to be POTUS. Modifying the scope of such said rules only
encourages more "slippery slope" debate as is on-going with BHO.
I registered one of my kids born overseas at the US embassy, ensuring
their US citizenship but not a Natural Born citizenship. The kid is
ineligible to be POTUS.
Iarnrod
No it isn't, you stupid fuckin' delusional kook. It's a certified copy
of the info on the originally issued birth certificate.
You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.
Iarnrod
If the kid is spawn of your kooker seed, that might just save the
Republic.
Draccus
Bullshit I have form in front of me and the short form is accepted so
try again dumb ass.
> >Not
> > even close second Natural Born IS someone born of at least one Parent
> > who is a US Citizen or is born in a state or territory of the United
> > States. Now if you want to argue this McCain would not be a natural
> > born citizen as he was born in Panama.
>
> In reviewing John Mccain's birth conditions I would agree that he also
> was not eligible to be POTUS.
>
> > > *http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/Secondary%20Evidence/Secondary
> > > %20Evidence_4315.html
>
> > > In the link(s) I provided, the I-9 form doesn't accept a Certificate
> > > of Live Birth as evidence, and the birth certificate the applicant
> > > must provide contains the original, raised-seal documentation.
> > > Secondary evidence allowable for a US Passport is unacceptable for the
> > > I-9 form. Heck, even BHO school records have not been released.
>
> > A Birth Certificate it a Certificate of Live Birth by another name it
> > is the form that not only accepted but expected,
>
> Absolute nonsense and unlike you, I've provided the evidence that
> refutes your claims
Actually if you bothered looking at what you provided you will notice
it requires one from column A the birth certificate is on that list or
one from B and one from C.
> >s it does in fact
> > bear the raised seal. If you were not so stupid you might have checked
> > your facts.
>
> A raised seal on a COLB only acknowledges it is a "Certified Copy: A
> copy of the document contained in the court file. It includes a
> stamped seal confirming that the copy is indeed a true and correct
> copy of the document contained in the court file."* What is in the
> "court file"...but a certificate of Live Birth. No matter how often
> claimed otherwise, a COLB is NOT the same as a Birth Certificate in
> the eyes of the law....especially back in the early 1960's.
> *http://en.mimi.hu/law/seal.html
You make claims not backed in reality only your mindless bullshit just
like always.
> Unlike stillborns where Hawaiian law requires a "fetal death
> certificate" is issued for those stillborn within the state of Hawaii,
> a certified copy of a "Live Birth" only certifies the child was born
> alive....but not necessarily in the state of Hawaii.
Bullshit to be issued in Hawaii the Birth must be born in the State.
Draccus
Here is a link to the I-9 Form the Column 3 also known as C shows
Birth Cert are acceptable. Your wrong yet again.
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf
And the Birth Cert as being acceptable for a Passport-
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/79955.pdf
You as always are a lying piece of shit.
Draccus
Please show where it is available to anyone not born in the issuing
state provide a link to the law in Hawaii please not just to WND site
or Wikepidia.
Josh Rosenbluth
> On Aug 12, 12:38 pm, Josh Rosenbluth <jrosenbl...@gotcha.comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>>Not
>>>>even close second Natural Born IS someone born of at least one Parent
>>>>who is a US Citizen or is born in a state or territory of the United
>>>>States. Now if you want to argue this McCain would not be a natural
>>>>born citizen as he was born in Panama.
>>
>>>In reviewing John Mccain's birth conditions I would agree that he also
>>>was not eligible to be POTUS.
>>
>>Both of his parents were citizens. That's almost certainly good enough,
>>not to mention he was born outside the USA only because his dad was
>>serving in the Navy. So, McCain should be ineligible to be President
>>because his dad was defending the country - how fucked up is that?
>
> I agree with you wrt J McCain's families military service Mr
> Rosenbluth ...but the rules are the rules. McCain was born in an area
> not under the legal jurisdiction of a US embassy, making his birth as
> falling short of meeting the criteria of Natural Born citizenship and
> ineligible to be POTUS. Modifying the scope of such said rules only
> encourages more "slippery slope" debate as is on-going with BHO.
Please provide a citation for the rules as to what is, or is not, a
raoul
>
> False. I've recently updated my Passport and my COLB was NOT an
> acceptable document. I was required to obtain a certified copy of my
> birth certificate (long "vault" form).
Wrong, at least in comparison to my experience. My father was a natural
born American citizen and, at the time of my birth, my Mother was a
Canadian citizen. (She was naturalized after my birth.) We frequently
visited relatives in Canada and we had certified long form birth
certificate copies for identification. Washington State and King County,
where I have always lived, changed over to a short form birth
certificate, much like Obama's current certificate. Both my brother and I
have used this short form birth certificate to legally obtain passports.
Kris Baker
> False. I've recently updated my Passport and my COLB was
> NOT an acceptable document. I was required to obtain a
> certified copy of my birth certificate (long "vault" form).
Liar.
Post an image of BOTH documents here, or it didn't happen.
Kris