What kind of supplement would you like to see?
Rich Harkrader
I would like your opinions on what types of supplements or products that
you would like to see from White Wolf. I am thinking seriously of
turining in a proposal or two for a White Wolf product and thought it
might be smart to do a little marketing survey beforehand. I have
several ideas about what I would like to see, but I want to know what
other people are hungering for. I would really apprecaite any responses
to this question, even if your response is a list of things you DON'T
want to see. Thanks.
Rich;)
--
"It was cold in Paris that winter.
As cold as the moon.
As cold as loneliness.
As cold as the kiss that killed me."
-Poppy Z. Brite "Lost Souls"
Joseph Connolly
I'd like to see White Wolf stay away from making too many supplements.
As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather see far fewer supplements coming out,
but with better quality. Without getting into a long diatribe about it,
I have purchased a few WHite Wolf supplements where I felt robbed.
Needless to say, I don't run out and buy their books anymore unless I
have borrowed one from someone else and I *KNOW* it's good. They put out
far too much second rate stuff now for me to go out and buy everything
they release like I used to.
Podunk by Night - I really like the "by Night" books when they're done
well. Particuar favorites have been the Chicago by Night books, and
Washington D.C. by Night.
The Sabbat - I'd like to see more done with them. I also know anything
to do with the Sabbat is a big seller around my local area.
Something Completely New - Why not?
Just my two cents. If I can think of anything else, I'll letcha know.
Rich Harkrader
Joseph Connolly wrote:
>
> I'd like to see White Wolf stay away from making too many supplements.
> As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather see far fewer supplements coming out,
> but with better quality. Without getting into a long diatribe about it,
> I have purchased a few WHite Wolf supplements where I felt robbed.
Preach on, brother! I know what you mean. That is kind of why I
asked.
> Needless to say, I don't run out and buy their books anymore unless I
> have borrowed one from someone else and I *KNOW* it's good. They put out
> far too much second rate stuff now for me to go out and buy everything
> they release like I used to.
I used to do the same thing. I didn't even use a lot of them. I just
read them for pleasure because, at one time, everything WW put out was
extremely well-written. Not anymore.
> Podunk by Night - I really like the "by Night" books when they're done
> well. Particuar favorites have been the Chicago by Night books, and
> Washington D.C. by Night.
>
> The Sabbat - I'd like to see more done with them. I also know anything
> to do with the Sabbat is a big seller around my local area.
> Something Completely New - Why not?
>
> Just my two cents. If I can think of anything else, I'll letcha know.
Thanks Joseph;)
Rich Harkrader
Okay, lemme add a couple of things to my earlier post. Number one, I
have read the WW writer's guidelines till I'm blue in the face. I know
exactly what WW does and doesn't want. Number two, I am not soliciting
your ideas so that I can steal them and use them as my own. I merely
wanted to know waht types of supplements people wanted to see. I wanted
to know because I have only the desires of myself and my group to go on
right now. We may wanna see some supplement that no one else in the
Tellurian wants. So please give me your opinions. Thanks;)
Ian Turner
Rich Harkrader wrote:
>
> I would like your opinions on what types of supplements or products that
> you would like to see from White Wolf. I am thinking seriously of
> turining in a proposal or two for a White Wolf product and thought it
> might be smart to do a little marketing survey beforehand. I have
> several ideas about what I would like to see, but I want to know what
> other people are hungering for.
Just listening to us ramble over the last few months, I would
say a Sourcebook dealing with the World of Darkness UNDERWATER (on 70%
of the world, the sun never shines..., for Kindred, Weresharks, Selkies
(as Bete or Kith?, Sirens (as Kindred or Kith?), Void Engineers, etc).
Also India by Night seemed an interesting thread, with Rakshasa
and Ravnos and Kali and Assamite Thuggee and Euthanatos and the mighty
Khan. Why does Trimurti so PERFECTLY duplicate the Triat? It would be
a shock for most Garou to go to India and learn that Shiva is the Wyrm
and that Vishnu is the Weaver and that Brahma is the Wyld, whilst the
Brahman is Gaia herself and that one of the most populous subcontinents
in the world actually follows Garou beliefs a few times removed...
Some sort of 3rd Edition seems warranted as a shocking amount of
BASIC rules are clearly unresolved to anyone who looks at this newsgroup
for any length of time. Just gathering together these queries and
sending them en masse to WW would be grounds for them to send a few HIT
Marks and a Pentex First Team to your house, but it really has got to be
done sooner or later since they keep releasing supplements without ever
having a clue that they aren't answering our rules questions, let alone
the pesky subjective ones that they have a reason to eschew...
Examples of questions;
Vamp 2nd Ed says Dread Gaze affects 'mortals,' Dark Ages doesn't
specify and implies that anyone can be Dread Gazed. Question 1, does it
affects just 'mortals' Question 2, if yes to 1, does 'mortals' include
mortal supernaturals such as Garou and Fomori? On a tangental note,
does actual Appearance have any bearing on this power? If a Nos dropped
Mask of 1000 and used Dread Gaze while showing his true features, I
would shit kittens (and die of perforated intestines soon after)
regardless of what he rolled for dice...
Dark Ages states that Stakes do Strength damage and have a
difficulty 8. (p 194) Difficulty increases by +2 to stake for the
heart, bringing it to 10! (p 194) 5 damage successes must penetrate to
stake the heart. (p 194) 5 successes must be scored to hit the heart.
(p 201) The question is why the fuck didn't they just say "NO, you
cannot stake someone!" instead of saying you need 5 successes at
Difficulty 10 and then need to do 5 damage at unmodified Strength +
Potence??? Waste my time, why doncha?
The Nosferatu Clanbook says that other Clans can spend blood to
make themselves more beautiful. How? (I hope the Nos were just whining
and meant that they could spend blood to be warm and flushed for a few
hours and thus look more human and less pale and tragic!)
Vicissitude used to be permanant, even to the point of curing
Nosferatu permanantly (I know what I'm getting for Christmas!!!). Dark
Ages made it so that a Kindred could spend blood to heal it. Montreal
by Night made Tears and Muse permanantly altered and even said that Muse
could not be altered back by Vicissitude!!!
Ghouls and Blood Pools, hopefully will be resolved in fatal
Addiction. As will 'the Revenant problem' I hope. As will the Ducheski
my Tremere hopes...
Ghouls and Disciplines and XP will hopfully also be dealt with,
but since the Liber des Ghoules book makes it clear that Ghoules
essentially learn only Celerity, Fortitude or Potence normally and must
buy a Merit for anything else, but pay only out-of-Clan costs for stuff,
I think that Fatal Addiction at least is precedented by sensible rules
and sounds like it will be quite good if Liber des Ghoules is any
indication.
Is Dark Ages canonical for modern games? Some weirdos believe
that Celerity and Vicissitude and Thaumaturgy have all just changed
radically since then, unlike Quietus and Visceritika which HAVE changed
since then...
Can the author of the Path of Cute Furry Death help me adapt it
to AD&D for my Gnomish Clockwork Mage Giant Space Werehamster to use?
(Oh, this has nothing to do with WW, never mind...)
Hope this helped.
Ian Turner.
> "It was cold in Paris that winter.
> As cold as the moon.
> As cold as loneliness.
> As cold as the kiss that killed me."
> -Poppy Z. Brite "Lost Souls"
Nice quote, who is Poppy Z. Brite, some band or something?
Rich Harkrader
> Hope this helped.
> Ian Turner.
>
> > "It was cold in Paris that winter.
> > As cold as the moon.
> > As cold as loneliness.
> > As cold as the kiss that killed me."
> > -Poppy Z. Brite "Lost Souls"
>
> Nice quote, who is Poppy Z. Brite, some band or something?
Thanks Ian;) You've been a big help. Poppy Z. Brite is the author of
one of the coolest vampire books I've ever read. Lost Souls is the name
of the book and I cannot recommend it highly enough.
Rich;)
--
Marc KTW Mielke
Rich Harkrader <crh...@pop.tamu.edu> wrote in article
<33059C...@pop.tamu.edu>...
> I would like your opinions on what types of supplements or products that
> you would like to see from White Wolf. I am thinking seriously of
> turining in a proposal or two for a White Wolf product and thought it
> might be smart to do a little marketing survey beforehand. I have
> several ideas about what I would like to see, but I want to know what
> other people are hungering for. I would really apprecaite any responses
> to this question, even if your response is a list of things you DON'T
> want to see. Thanks.
>
> Rich;)
> --
> "It was cold in Paris that winter.
> As cold as the moon.
> As cold as loneliness.
> As cold as the kiss that killed me."
> -Poppy Z. Brite "Lost Souls"
>
Truck on over to the "High Seas" Thread...
-Marc
9 9 2 0 .2 2 9 9 8 9 2 1 2 .3 3 4
"Their one common denominator, the single sure mark of the creep,
was that they were, every one of them, In The Know, privy to information
denied to other mortals or that others were simply too stupid to see."
-T.E.D. Klein, "Nadelman's God"
Someone
Dear all,
My turn. =) I would like to see the following..
1.) NO MORE CHANGEING BREED BOOKS!
2.) NO MORE RAGE ACROSS THE WORLD/BY NIGHT BOOKS! ('Cept maybe "Boston by
Night" heehee)
3.) LESS PICTURES IN THE CLAN/TRIBE/TRADITION/KITH/GUILDHOUSE BOOKS!
(ESPECIALLY CLAN LASOMBRA!)
4.) NO CLAN BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!
5.) NO MORE WORLD OF DARKNESS HISTORY BOOKS AFTER WEREWOLF: THE WILD WEST
6.) NO MORE BY NIGHT BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!!
7.) PLEASE NO MORE BOOKS ON THE UMBRA! THREE IS ENOUGH (Axis Mundi: The
Book of Spirits, Beyond the Barriers: The Book of Worlds, Umbra: The
Velvet Shadow. Wanna know why? I think gamers LIKE making their own
worlds!)
And that's all. Ciao. =)
Sincerely,
Someone
Winter
Someone wrote (screamed) a big list of thigs he DIDN'T want:
>
> Dear all,
>
> My turn. =) I would like to see the following..
>
> 1.) NO MORE CHANGEING BREED BOOKS!
don't think that's gonna happen
besides, not overly fair to all us Anasai fans out there is it?
> 2.) NO MORE RAGE ACROSS THE WORLD/BY NIGHT BOOKS! ('Cept maybe "Boston by
> Night" heehee)
agreed
if i don't se another "blah by night" book i will be happy
(btw- Boston is covered in Dark Colony)
> 3.) LESS PICTURES IN THE CLAN/TRIBE/TRADITION/KITH/GUILDHOUSE BOOKS!
> (ESPECIALLY CLAN LASOMBRA!)
hmm...
i like the art
(unless it's bad, clanbook ravnos just looks aweful)
artwork adds a LOT to a game's mood and feel
all my fav WW boods hav good art
> 4.) NO CLAN BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!
don't think yer gonna get this either
altho,e xcept got Cappadocians
i just really do't think there's all that much demand for DA clanbooks
> 5.) NO MORE WORLD OF DARKNESS HISTORY BOOKS AFTER WEREWOLF: THE WILD WEST
NO!
i WANT to see mage the fall of rome and wraith the disco years
and changeling the ancient egypt (or whatever)
direct disagreeance here
sorry
> 6.) NO MORE BY NIGHT BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!!
hmm...
i don't think you'll have too much worry on this one
> 7.) PLEASE NO MORE BOOKS ON THE UMBRA! THREE IS ENOUGH (Axis Mundi: The
> Book of Spirits, Beyond the Barriers: The Book of Worlds, Umbra: The
> Velvet Shadow. Wanna know why? I think gamers LIKE making their own
> worlds!)
since i play primarily Vampire and Wraith
i really don't care wheather or not they make a hundred
books on the umbra
oh well
> And that's all. Ciao. =)
>
> Sincerely,
> Someone
alright
what would you want to see?
i mean you basically said "no more books by WW!"
just curious
--
Winter-------...@odin.cmp.ilstu.edu
NetWraithInnerCircle Member #242, SpamFerryman
and keeper of the almighty Wraith-L FAQ
"a vicious appetite visits me each night
and won't be satisfied won't be denied
an unbearable pain a beatingin my brain
that leaves the mark of Cain right here inside"
-Depeche Mode, "Barrel of a Gun"
Someone
Winter wrote:
> don't think that's gonna happen
> besides, not overly fair to all us Anasai fans out there is it?
Okay, Anasai boy, here's why I don't wanna see them. If there're
only FORTY wererats left on Earth, why make a book on it? If there are
even LESS werespiders, why make it? Also, why waste $20 to buy a book
when all the ESSENTIAL information you NEED is in the Werewolf Players
Guide? Anything they don't have in the WPG, make up!
> hmm...
> i like the art
> (unless it's bad, clanbook ravnos just looks aweful)
> artwork adds a LOT to a game's mood and feel
> all my fav WW boods hav good art
I believe if you took all the art out the clanbooks, you'd have a
full ten pages of neccessary text. Taking out the pre-made characters (I
mean, who actually USES those?). Art is good, but limit it, I want
quality, not art.
>
> don't think yer gonna get this either
> altho,e xcept got Cappadocians
> i just really do't think there's all that much demand for DA clanbooks
White Wolf doesn't freaking care about DEMAND! They are in the
process, as we speak, of making a series of Clanbooks for the Dark Ages,
cept they are published in sets of three. (Example: "Masters of the
State" features Lasombra, Ventrue and Tzimisce clans).
>
> NO!
> i WANT to see mage the fall of rome and wraith the disco years
> and changeling the ancient egypt (or whatever)
> direct disagreeance here
> sorry
WHY?!?!!? Make it up yourself! They give you the RULES for doing
so in EVERY storytellers guide.
> > 6.) NO MORE BY NIGHT BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!!
>
> hmm...
> i don't think you'll have too much worry on this one
I beg to differ, I think they're going to make Kiev by Night and Cairo by
Night.
>
> alright
> what would you want to see?
> i mean you basically said "no more books by WW!"
Precisely. Tell me, do you really need a changing breed series?
How about a Combat Guide for Werewolf? Don't you see what is happening?
White Wolf is turning into TSR for Christ's sake! Next they'll have
pre-made adventures selling for $10 at the stores!
Now don't get me wrong, I love White Wolf! They got me off of TSR
and D&D, and I love the games, but we don't need all this CRAP! The
clan/tribe/tradition/guild/kithian books, yes, and the player's guides
and storyteller's guides, yes. But no more! We don't need detailing on
EVERYTHING in the WoD! Three months ago, I promised myself I would not
buy ANYMORE White Wolf stuff..wanna know why? Because I don't NEED IT!
All you REALLY NEED to play ANY of the games are the main books and the
player's guides! The only thing I am going to buy from WW from now on, is
Werewolf: The Wild West. That's it.
Ciao. =)
Sorry WW, I still love ya!
>
> just curious
Lucius
On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Rich Harkrader wrote:
> I would like your opinions on what types of supplements or products that
> you would like to see from White Wolf. I am thinking seriously of
> turining in a proposal or two for a White Wolf product and thought it
> might be smart to do a little marketing survey beforehand. I have
> several ideas about what I would like to see, but I want to know what
> other people are hungering for. I would really apprecaite any responses
> to this question, even if your response is a list of things you DON'T
> want to see. Thanks.
>
I'd like to see some more 'by Night' books although not cities in America,
I'd rather see ones in Europe (pref. Britian but thats only cos I live
here)
MORE SABBAT lot more on the Sabbat, I love ther Sabbat, their not evil
just misunderstood.
--
**********************************************************
*| Lucius of Clan Ventrue |*
*| |*
*| http://www.york.ac.uk/~pcs102/ |*
*| pcs...@york.ac.uk |*
*| |*
*| " Once upon a time, there was a little place |*
*| where the dead walked and talked and played |*
*| their little games. |*
*| Welcome to our fairy tale" |*
**********************************************************
Winter
Someone wrote:
>
> Winter wrote:
>
> > don't think that's gonna happen
> > besides, not overly fair to all us Anasai fans out there is it?
>
> Okay, Anasai boy, here's why I don't wanna see them. If there're
> only FORTY wererats left on Earth, why make a book on it? If there are
> even LESS werespiders, why make it? Also, why waste $20 to buy a book
> when all the ESSENTIAL information you NEED is in the Werewolf Players
> Guide? Anything they don't have in the WPG, make up!
book, so all of the clan/tradition/guild/baseball-teambooks are irrelevant"
if this is your opinion, i'd recomend giving a few of the books a second look
(espeially clan book Nosferatu and the Cultof X book, those 2 really expanded
the group they were written about)
> White Wolf doesn't freaking care about DEMAND! They are in the
White Wolf HAS to care about demand
every business does
that's propably why they're bunching the darkages books 3 in one
they realised that ppl will look at clanbook ventrue, the dark ages
and say "well hell, i've already got the rregular clanbook, ventrue
don't seem that different"
and not buy it
> > NO!
> > i WANT to see mage the fall of rome and wraith the disco years
> > and changeling the ancient egypt (or whatever)
> > direct disagreeance here
> > sorry
>
> WHY?!?!!? Make it up yourself! They give you the RULES for doing
> so in EVERY storytellers guide.
> i dunno
maybe i'm loony
i'd rather fork over 28 bucks on something with better research and writing
than i could do
than waste a lot of time going to the library trying to do it myself
a game book that is full of interresting ideas and atmosphere
is more "usefull" to me than one with new rules
i can make up rules to
> > > 6.) NO MORE BY NIGHT BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!!
> >
> > hmm...
> > i don't think you'll have too much worry on this one
>
> I beg to differ, I think they're going to make Kiev by Night and Cairo by
> Night.
<shrug>
oh well
i didn't buy Constantanoble by night
and i prolly won't buy those
doesn't make much difference to me
> Precisely. Tell me, do you really need a changing breed series?
no, but i'd *like* one
there's the difference
> How about a Combat Guide for Werewolf? Don't you see what is happening?
> White Wolf is turning into TSR for Christ's sake! Next they'll have
> pre-made adventures selling for $10 at the stores!
loom of fate, bloodbond, ashes to ashes, chaos factor
they've been doing that for some time
> Now don't get me wrong, I love White Wolf! They got me off of TSR
> and D&D, and I love the games, but we don't need all this CRAP! The
> clan/tribe/tradition/guild/kithian books, yes, and the player's guides
> and storyteller's guides, yes. But no more! We don't need detailing on
> EVERYTHING in the WoD! Three months ago, I promised myself I would not
> buy ANYMORE White Wolf stuff..wanna know why? Because I don't NEED IT!
> All you REALLY NEED to play ANY of the games are the main books and the
> player's guides! The only thing I am going to buy from WW from now on, is
> Werewolf: The Wild West. That's it.
does whitewolf put out a whole otta books?
yes
are they making 5 games, not just one?
yes
am i actually deluded enough to buy all those books?
no
are the books that i DO buy good enough that i'm glad i bought them
yes (except for a very few)
do i care if they make 40 books a year that i'm not gonna buy, as long
as the 3 i DO buy are good?
no
--
Winter-------...@odin.cmp.ilstu.edu
NetWraithInnerCircle Member #242, SpamFerryman
and keeper of the almighty Wraith-L FAQ
"a vicious appetite visits me each night
and won't be satisfied won't be denied
an unbearable pain a beating in my brain
Jon Otto
> You know what i would like to see? Some little federation of
> storytellers to trade stories, ideas, game info etc. Maybe I should start
> one up? What do you guys think?
I think this is a great idea. I'd love to read other's experiences (and
submit my own).
Mike Bruner
Lucius wrote:
>
> On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Rich Harkrader wrote:
>
> > I would like your opinions on what types of supplements or products that
> > you would like to see from White Wolf. I am thinking seriously of
> > turining in a proposal or two for a White Wolf product and thought it
> > might be smart to do a little marketing survey beforehand. I have
> > several ideas about what I would like to see, but I want to know what
> > other people are hungering for. I would really apprecaite any responses
> > to this question, even if your response is a list of things you DON'T
> > want to see. Thanks.
> >
>
> I'd like to see some more 'by Night' books although not cities in America,
> I'd rather see ones in Europe (pref. Britian but thats only cos I live
> here)
>
> MORE SABBAT lot more on the Sabbat, I love ther Sabbat, their not evil
> just misunderstood.
Actually they're both; evil but misunderstood, I'd say (sorry, no matter
how you play with it you're never going to convince me people who
believe they're the master race and torment regular humans for fun and
are willing to do anything including consort with the forces of true
evil (The Wyrm as Pentex and the Black Spirals) to achieve their goals
are anything but evil; still doesn't mean there isn't more to tell about
them of course).
--
Mike Bruner
mbr...@knox.edu
"The slow brain penetrates the shield"
"But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the East, and
Juliet is AAAHHHHHHH THE SUN!!!!!" *FOOM!*
-- Toreador Theatre
Mike Bruner
Winter wrote:
>
> Someone wrote:
> >
> > Winter wrote:
> >
> > > don't think that's gonna happen
> > > besides, not overly fair to all us Anasai fans out there is it?
> >
> > Okay, Anasai boy, here's why I don't wanna see them. If there're
> > only FORTY wererats left on Earth, why make a book on it? If there are
> > even LESS werespiders, why make it? Also, why waste $20 to buy a book
> > when all the ESSENTIAL information you NEED is in the Werewolf Players
> > Guide? Anything they don't have in the WPG, make up!
> that's akin to saying "they had all the relevant info in the main
> book, so all of the clan/tradition/guild/baseball-teambooks are irrelevant"
> if this is your opinion, i'd recomend giving a few of the books a second look
> (espeially clan book Nosferatu and the Cultof X book, those 2 really expanded
> the group they were written about)
Besides, who says there have to be so few of a breed left in existance?
I certainly think there are a bit more than 40 Anasai left. As for the
"make it up yourself" you keep saying, when it comes down to it by that
logic I should invent my own roleplaying games and save all the money I
want :). Supplements are like all things optional; if you don't want
them it's your business. But they can be a great source of ideas even if
don't want to use everything verbatum.
> > White Wolf doesn't freaking care about DEMAND! They are in the
>
> White Wolf HAS to care about demand
> every business does
> that's propably why they're bunching the darkages books 3 in one
> they realised that ppl will look at clanbook ventrue, the dark ages
> and say "well hell, i've already got the rregular clanbook, ventrue
> don't seem that different"
> and not buy it
>
> > > NO!
> > > i WANT to see mage the fall of rome and wraith the disco years
> > > and changeling the ancient egypt (or whatever)
> > > direct disagreeance here
> > > sorry
> >
> > WHY?!?!!? Make it up yourself! They give you the RULES for doing
> > so in EVERY storytellers guide.
> > i dunno
> maybe i'm loony
> i'd rather fork over 28 bucks on something with better research and writing
> than i could do
> than waste a lot of time going to the library trying to do it myself
>
> a game book that is full of interresting ideas and atmosphere
> is more "usefull" to me than one with new rules
>
> i can make up rules to
Besides, it's easy to take the rules they give and make up your own. I
got the Combat guide for the weapons info and the stuff on special
manuevers; with a little tweaking it wasn't hard to take what I wanted
and discard the rest, and I ended up with a nice but fairly simple
system for making dots in combat skills mean more than just rolling an
extra die or two. Let's face it, someone at Brawl 3 or 4 is more than
just someone who's got better aim with a punch.
> > > > 6.) NO MORE BY NIGHT BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!!
> > >
> > > hmm...
> > > i don't think you'll have too much worry on this one
> >
> > I beg to differ, I think they're going to make Kiev by Night and Cairo by
> > Night.
>
> <shrug>
> oh well
> i didn't buy Constantanoble by night
> and i prolly won't buy those
> doesn't make much difference to me
Like he said; you don't want it, don't buy it.
Christina McVety
Someone (kha...@usa1.com) wrote:
: Winter wrote:
: > i mean you basically said "no more books by WW!"
: clan/tribe/tradition/guild/kithian books, yes, and the player's guides
: and storyteller's guides, yes. But no more! We don't need detailing on
: All you REALLY NEED to play ANY of the games are the main books and the
: player's guides! The only thing I am going to buy from WW from now on, is
: Werewolf: The Wild West. That's it.
Well, there is no need for you to buy what is put out. If you don't want to
use it, don't. There is nothing saying that you have to include every
character/bloodline/citybook in your chronical. If you don't want to
include other things, don't buy the books. Personally, I don't see the
company doing that, if only because they would like to keep putting out
their product. Personal point, I want the various Bete books. I like the by
Night/Rage Across books if only for ideas for NPCs. I want to know more
about the Umbra/Dreaming/High Umbra. then again, I enjoy reading the books
almost as much as playing the game.
: >
: > just curious
--
(Christy McVety) star...@camelot.bradley.edu
Nothing beats a day at a theme park! Except maybe a blowout in rush-hour
traffic on a busy freeway. -Maxine
R0BlNH00D
<<<How about a Combat Guide for Werewolf? Don't you see what is happening?
White Wolf is turning into TSR for Christ's sake! Next they'll have
pre-made adventures selling for $10 at the stores!
Now don't get me wrong, I love White Wolf! They got me off of TSR
and D&D, and I love the games, but we don't need all this CRAP! The
clan/tribe/tradition/guild/kithian books, yes, and the player's guides
and storyteller's guides, yes. But no more! We don't need detailing on
EVERYTHING in the WoD! Three months ago, I promised myself I would not
buy ANYMORE White Wolf stuff..wanna know why? Because I don't NEED IT!
All you REALLY NEED to play ANY of the games are the main books and the
player's guides! The only thing I am going to buy from WW from now on, is
Werewolf: The Wild West. That's it.>>>
Well I have to say some of the city books helped out. As for a surgence of
material I agree with you. I would like to see a better storytellers
guidebook. As a storyteller, when i first read the book I was kinda
dissapointed. Also there wasn't any section on "How to deal with
munchkinism" or some other really important things that i would like to
have seen. On the other hand the WW way of leaving it all up to you has
helped me really fashion alot of cool ideas that I have applied to my own
little deviations from reality :) However I would like to see alot more
story seed ideas and some adventures, not that im not creative but when
your full time working and full time schooling its hard to really make a
whole story up and have the brain power to constantly "Wing it" like i
always do :) I have to say the biggest help to me has been these boards.
Everytime i posted a question when learning about how to storytell,
everyone here helped out tremendously with different ideas and viewpoints
that made my games 100x better than they would have been.
cossabo1
Someone wrote:
>
> Winter wrote:
>
> > don't think that's gonna happen
> > besides, not overly fair to all us Anasai fans out there is it?
>
> Okay, Anasai boy, here's why I don't wanna see them. If there're
> only FORTY wererats left on Earth, why make a book on it? If there are
> even LESS werespiders, why make it? Also, why waste $20 to buy a book
> when all the ESSENTIAL information you NEED is in the Werewolf Players
> Guide? Anything they don't have in the WPG, make up!
>
> > i like the art
> > (unless it's bad, clanbook ravnos just looks aweful)
> > artwork adds a LOT to a game's mood and feel
> > all my fav WW boods hav good art
>
> I believe if you took all the art out the clanbooks, you'd have a
> full ten pages of neccessary text. Taking out the pre-made characters (I
> mean, who actually USES those?). Art is good, but limit it, I want
> quality, not art.
> >
> > don't think yer gonna get this either
> > altho,e xcept got Cappadocians
> > i just really do't think there's all that much demand for DA clanbooks
>
> cept they are published in sets of three. (Example: "Masters of the
> State" features Lasombra, Ventrue and Tzimisce clans).
> >
> > i WANT to see mage the fall of rome and wraith the disco years
> > and changeling the ancient egypt (or whatever)
> > direct disagreeance here
> > sorry
>
> WHY?!?!!? Make it up yourself! They give you the RULES for doing
> so in EVERY storytellers guide.
>
> >
> > hmm...
> > i don't think you'll have too much worry on this one
>
> I beg to differ, I think they're going to make Kiev by Night and Cairo by
> Night.
>
> >
> > what would you want to see?
>
> White Wolf is turning into TSR for Christ's sake! Next they'll have
> pre-made adventures selling for $10 at the stores!
> Now don't get me wrong, I love White Wolf! They got me off of TSR
> and D&D, and I love the games, but we don't need all this CRAP! The
> clan/tribe/tradition/guild/kithian books, yes, and the player's guides
> and storyteller's guides, yes. But no more! We don't need detailing on
> EVERYTHING in the WoD! Three months ago, I promised myself I would not
> buy ANYMORE White Wolf stuff..wanna know why? Because I don't NEED IT!
> All you REALLY NEED to play ANY of the games are the main books and the
> player's guides! The only thing I am going to buy from WW from now on, is
> Werewolf: The Wild West. That's it.
>
> Sorry WW, I still love ya!
> >
quit making it. Besides their games are cheaper than the others I play.
Paul Ashley
> White Wolf doesn't freaking care about DEMAND!
What an odd thing to say. I mean, how could they expect to stay in business
even a year if they didn't care about demand? It's not like they're
pumping these books out in a vacuum, you know; if they really
didn't think anyone was interested in paying money to own a copy
of Book X, they wouldn't go to the trouble of printing, binding, and
shipping it.
Sheesh.
-Monty
--
Monty Ashley | "I say! I mean, I say. I say, dash it, you know.
| I mean, dash it," said Barmy feeling, even as he
mo...@nwlink.com | spoke, that the rebuke had not been phrased as
| neatly as he could have wished.
Ryan J Franklin
In article <33093C...@usa1.com>, Someone <kha...@usa1.com> wrote:
[ big argument deleted just to get this one straight line out of it ]
>full ten pages of neccessary text. Taking out the pre-made characters (I
>mean, who actually USES those?). Art is good, but limit it, I want
I've yet to use one of the templates from the back of any of the
splatbooks, but oddly enough, I sometimes find them interesting anyway.
Every now and again there's a template that's just a little off, a little
weird, a little different from what you'd expect.
_Those_ are the templates I want to see in a splatbook. Not the boring
stupid stereotypical ones, but the really twisted my-god-how-did-they-
come-up-with-THAT character ideas. I'm usually disappointed, but every
now and again, you get a Mexican Wrestler, y'know?
Be warned: You are all living in my universe if the Euthanatos Tradbook
comes out and it contains a template for the Euthanatos Realtor. That's
right, the Realtor. The Euthanatos who uses her powers to find new
properties, to help struggling people move into new homes, to expand
people's horizons by giving them new, fertile ground to grow in. This
idea crept into my head when I was designing NPCs for an aborted Mage
game, and it quickly became the Best Damn Character Concept I Ever Came
Up With. (Of course, the Tradbook won't have this or any concept that's
even close to being that cool. No, instead it'll have the same goddamn
Euthanatos concepts we _always_ see; the doctor, the paramedic, the
voodoo guy, and so on.)
I don't think that the templates should be taken out of the splatbooks at
all; I just think that only _strange_ templates should be allowed in them.
--
of course, i'm a total freak
fran...@gas.uug.arizona.edu
Joshua Dyal
Thus spoke cossabo1 <coss...@access.mountain.net>:
>> WHY?!?!!? Make it up yourself! They give you the RULES for doing
>> so in EVERY storytellers guide.
>>
>> >
>> > alright
>> > what would you want to see?
>> > i mean you basically said "no more books by WW!"
>>
>> Precisely. Tell me, do you really need a changing breed series?
>> How about a Combat Guide for Werewolf? Don't you see what is happening?
>> White Wolf is turning into TSR for Christ's sake! Next they'll have
>> pre-made adventures selling for $10 at the stores!
>> Now don't get me wrong, I love White Wolf! They got me off of TSR
>> and D&D, and I love the games, but we don't need all this CRAP! The
>> clan/tribe/tradition/guild/kithian books, yes, and the player's guides
>> and storyteller's guides, yes. But no more! We don't need detailing on
>> EVERYTHING in the WoD! Three months ago, I promised myself I would not
>> buy ANYMORE White Wolf stuff..wanna know why? Because I don't NEED IT!
>> All you REALLY NEED to play ANY of the games are the main books and the
>> player's guides! The only thing I am going to buy from WW from now on, is
>> Werewolf: The Wild West. That's it.
Very good points. One of the first games I got into was Marc Miller's
Traveller (the old one, not the new release remake) For the longest
time, it had absolutely no supplementary material. The rules for
making alien characters were, paraphrasing, "you may change the stats
as appropriate" The rules for generating a map of the entire galaxy
were included, rather than a premade map of the galaxy. The point is,
you had to have IMAGINATION to play the game. Storytelling isn't much
anymore if you're reading the whole thing out of a book. One of the
funnest and most interesting challenges of running a game is using
your imagination to tell a story, populate it with the kind of people
you want, and make it conform to your rules (assuming they make sense
to the players as well, so they enjoy it) That's one of the reasons
why I posted my idea for a Werewolf scenario that takes place three
thousand years ago. The only rulebooks I have are the main book and
the players guide. The rest is stuff I pretty much made up! I think
it adds a whole new flavor to the game, and it is nice to break away
from the printed systems that everyone expects all of the time. So
what I'm saying is, check out my post! :) I hope to hear back about
other ideas for something new, or expansions on what I started, that
was the whole reason I posted the idea in the first place.
Joshua Dyal
j-d...@tamu.edu
Someone
SHEESH! Are you ALL against me!?! =)Talk about flames...
Ian Turner
Ryan J Franklin wrote:
> I don't think that the templates should be taken out of the splatbooks
> at all; I just think that only _strange_ templates should be allowed
> in them.
Welcome to the club. My favorite characters include a Nosferatu
Harpy playboy millionaire, a Malkavian Psychiatrist (who is quite good
and has never made a patient crazier!), a really nice Tremere and a
biker heroin-addict assassin Gangrel. I wrote up a Giovanni once who
had fallen hard for the Camarilla and was searching for a Salubri so
that she could learn how to 'steal souls!' Also a Toreador Samurai
Embraced to help protect Heironymous Bosch from Gaki attacks in the
Dutch mission to Japan (he focussed on his brush painting and poetry
AFTER the Embrace when he learned that he would be 'honorless' in
Toreador terms without an art form!). Even a Ventrue sorcerer!
I look forward to playing an honorable Setite warrior (who
dreams of the days when Set ruled Egypt well and the nations armies were
feared and led by Set the God of War and Storms, not the skulking whiner
of a Night God that he is today) and an Assamite contact person and
field researcher who is known to be the woman to go to for info on
others in the city by visiting Assamites and the woman to go to by
local Kindred who WANT an Assamite as she will call one, since she
doesn't do wetwork, just goes along to watch and make sure the mission
is legit and all goes well!
Still, the Toreador art maven (who owns an arts college), the
Ventrue CEO (with Majesty at starting!) and the Brujah Dark Ages Knight
are also fun. Not ALL stereotypes are bad if played well.
A fellow freak,
Ian Turner.
Ian Turner
Joshua Dyal wrote:
> One of the funnest and most interesting challenges of running a game
> is using your imagination to tell a story, populate it with the kind
> of people you want, and make it conform to your rules (assuming they
> make sense to the players as well, so they enjoy it)
It is funny how House Rules change from night to night and game
to game around here! For GURPS we abandoned PD (amongst a page or so
of other changes), for AD&D we have 3 pages of House Rules (some just
errata from Sage Advice) and for Vampire we finally tweaked Fortitude
and Celerity a bit and made up rules for adding LARP Influences to
Tabletop! But with another group, Celerity is tweaked differently and
learning Disciplines is different.
The group should always be consulted. Telling a Brujah of the
13th Generation with 4 in Celerity that you are switching to Dark Ages
rules for Celerity or telling a Ravnos that you are switching to the
Dark Ages concept that he has to drink Fae blood to raise his Chimerstry
is blatantly unfair. Either they should get a vote (and the rest of the
players as well, which may go against a Brujah who has lorded over the
party and stolen all the fun!) OR the ST should allow them to alter and/
or replace their PC with one of equal XP.
Ian Turner.
Theslin Wanders-through-Bramble
In article <5ecish$j...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, the...@mail.utexas.edu (Theslin Wanders-through-Bramble) says:
>>> 5.) NO MORE WORLD OF DARKNESS HISTORY BOOKS AFTER WEREWOLF: THE WILD WEST
>>> 7.) PLEASE NO MORE BOOKS ON THE UMBRA! THREE IS ENOUGH (Axis Mundi: The
>>> Book of Spirits, Beyond the Barriers: The Book of Worlds, Umbra: The
>>> Velvet Shadow. Wanna know why? I think gamers LIKE making their own
>>> worlds!)
Strikes me that I didn't try to address the poster's actual point.
Yes! Gamers -love- to make up their own worlds--no doubt about it!
But my storyteller (the one who has -all- of my gamer stuff, grumble)
jumped upon the book of worlds--it's made her life a little bit easier,
in that she doesn't have to backtrack over her own mistakes. A little
standardization is invaluable when you're -already- keeping 3-6 player
characters, 20 NPCs, and a whole plot line in your head!
Aaron
> Very good points. One of the first games I got into was Marc Miller's
> Traveller (the old one, not the new release remake) For the longest
> time, it had absolutely no supplementary material. The rules for
> making alien characters were, paraphrasing, "you may change the stats
> as appropriate" The rules for generating a map of the entire galaxy
> were included, rather than a premade map of the galaxy. The point is,
> you had to have IMAGINATION to play the game. Storytelling isn't much
> funnest and most interesting challenges of running a game is using
> your imagination to tell a story, populate it with the kind of people
> you want, and make it conform to your rules (assuming they make sense
> why I posted my idea for a Werewolf scenario that takes place three
> thousand years ago. The only rulebooks I have are the main book and
> the players guide. The rest is stuff I pretty much made up! I think
> it adds a whole new flavor to the game, and it is nice to break away
> from the printed systems that everyone expects all of the time. So
> what I'm saying is, check out my post! :) I hope to hear back about
> other ideas for something new, or expansions on what I started, that
> was the whole reason I posted the idea in the first place.
>
> Joshua Dyal
> j-d...@tamu.edu
issue. If people don't want sourcebooks, don't buy them. But part of
what makes the WoD so appealing to so many people is the sheer vastness
of information that is available for it. Vampire seems so real because
there is tons of info to learn about it. Yes, I think there are some
sourcebooks that serve no purpose (all the "By Night" books are just
dumb), but most serve to flesh out the game. There are to many RPG's
out there, great ones, that just sit around because the company doesn't
make any supplements for them. While it's great to make up your own
setting info, it's kinda fun to know that what you're using is
"official." A good example would be Conspiracy X. I could make up all
the conspiracy information I want for it and it would be cool. But then
a supplement would come out down the road detailing New Mellinium's
current setting and it would be completely different from mine. If you
don't mind that, then making up your own stuff is fine.
--
Aaron @ Discount Games
-----------------------------------
Discount Games Co.
Serious Savings for Serious Gamers
...on more than 14,000 items!
http://www.discountgames.com
mailto:chuc...@flash.net
Winter
Theslin Wanders-through-Bramble wrote:
>
> Let's see...what -would- I like to see? As a supplement to -something,-
> I'd like to see WW's opinions on RL animal statistics, a la GURPS
> Bestiery--it's easier than thinking. I know, shades of Monster Manual,
> but that's some information that's lacking. Particularly since my
> mages always end up shape-shifting or summoning normal creatures.
Vampire's Players guide
either edition
VERY handy listing o stats for all sorts of mundane thingies
"so you wanna ghoul a camel eh? well here's his stats. Whre youplanning on hiding
the thing?"
> Player's Guide to the Black Spirals? Pretty please, with bane corruption
> on top?eeeeeeew
well hey, they did players guide to Sabbat, Fomori and Spectres
i guess BSD and Nephandi can't be too far behind
--
Winter-------...@odin.cmp.ilstu.edu
NetWraithInnerCircle Member #242, SpamFerryman
and keeper of the almighty Wraith-L FAQ
"a vicious appetite visits me each night
and won't be satisfied won't be denied
an unbearable pain a beatingin my brain
Ethan Skemp
Ryan J Franklin wrote:
>
> In article <33093C...@usa1.com>, Someone <kha...@usa1.com> wrote:
> [ big argument deleted just to get this one straight line out of it ]
> >full ten pages of neccessary text. Taking out the pre-made characters (I
> >mean, who actually USES those?). Art is good, but limit it, I want
>
> I've yet to use one of the templates from the back of any of the
> splatbooks, but oddly enough, I sometimes find them interesting anyway.
> Every now and again there's a template that's just a little off, a little
> weird, a little different from what you'd expect.
>
> _Those_ are the templates I want to see in a splatbook. Not the boring
> stupid stereotypical ones, but the really twisted my-god-how-did-they-
> come-up-with-THAT character ideas. I'm usually disappointed, but every
> now and again, you get a Mexican Wrestler, y'know?
"You Sabbat gringos think you can withstand the 24-inch pythons of El
Diablo Verde, si?" (poses ferociously)
I don't know what Rob was on when he wrote that one, but maybe it should
be more widely distributed.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
Luchador Invencible
Theslin Wanders-through-Bramble
>Someone wrote (screamed) a big list of thigs he DIDN'T want:
>> 1.) NO MORE CHANGEING BREED BOOKS!
Woah! That's harsh--you don't know -how- happy I was to get my little
paws on the Book o'Nuwisha, and I'm looking forward to Corax with
salivatory anticipation!
One thing that I -would- like, is a little bit of info on the War of
Rage itself. WW has been entirely too vague on that point. On the
other hand, I haven't actually read the breed books yet.
>> 2.) NO MORE RAGE ACROSS THE WORLD/BY NIGHT BOOKS! ('Cept maybe "Boston by
>> Night" heehee)
Mixed emotions, here--I've never bought an X by night, though I've
ended up with Rage across Appalachia somehow. If Ascension War: Seattle
came out, I'd be pretty darn joyful--those books add a lot for us
gamers who don't leave Hometown very much!
>> 3.) LESS PICTURES IN THE CLAN/TRIBE/TRADITION/KITH/GUILDHOUSE BOOKS!
>> (ESPECIALLY CLAN LASOMBRA!)
Why? I'm curious. Honestly, I'm neither here nor there on this one.
But why in the "Faction" books specifically? The Nuwisha book
art was...sterling. Loved the scottish coyote... Now, no more art in
the faction books by John Cobb-- -that- I could support. He irritates
me.
>> 5.) NO MORE WORLD OF DARKNESS HISTORY BOOKS AFTER WEREWOLF: THE WILD WEST
Best thing I could see is to let the market determine that one, aye?
>> 7.) PLEASE NO MORE BOOKS ON THE UMBRA! THREE IS ENOUGH (Axis Mundi: The
>> Book of Spirits, Beyond the Barriers: The Book of Worlds, Umbra: The
>> Velvet Shadow. Wanna know why? I think gamers LIKE making their own
>> worlds!)
Hee, hee--I don't think there's anything left to cover! But those are
some of the -best- books WW has released! <Well, Axis Mundi was a pretty
good bestiary, but it seriously lacked on advice for dealing with ye
spirits...IMHO, of course!>
Let's see...what -would- I like to see? As a supplement to -something,-
I'd like to see WW's opinions on RL animal statistics, a la GURPS
Bestiery--it's easier than thinking. I know, shades of Monster Manual,
but that's some information that's lacking. Particularly since my
mages always end up shape-shifting or summoning normal creatures.
As I said before, info on the War of Rage. That's -probably- something
I could assemble from the Breed Books.
Player's Guide to the Black Spirals? Pretty please, with bane corruption
on top?
Crafts came -close- to what I'd like to see for Mage--more little groups!
Maybe if you-all put out a general call for Craft ideas? The product
could have a "garage" look to it, with mediocre binding for flavor.
I -know Timothy Toner and myself would both leap at the chance for
something like that. If it's done low-budget without the "flash" of
professional WW products--appropriate enough for a non-professional
item--it could be tolerably successful. Some sort of catchy name for
the idea...sigh, I'm terrible with names...
Kevin Andrew Murphy
Winter <sag...@odin.cmp.ilstu.edu> wrote:
>> 5.) NO MORE WORLD OF DARKNESS HISTORY BOOKS AFTER WEREWOLF: THE WILD WEST
>NO!
>i WANT to see mage the fall of rome and wraith the disco years
^^^
>and changeling the ancient egypt (or whatever)
>direct disagreeance here
>sorry
ROTFL!
Burn, Baby Burn!
<G>
Kevin Andrew Murphy
Author of assorted Goth weirdness
New fiction available at:
http://www.sff.net/people/Kevin.A.Murphy
Winter
Ethan Skemp wrote:
>
> Ryan J Franklin wrote:
> > _Those_ are the templates I want to see in a splatbook. Not the boring
> > stupid stereotypical ones, but the really twisted my-god-how-did-they-
> > come-up-with-THAT character ideas. I'm usually disappointed, but every
> > now and again, you get a Mexican Wrestler, y'know?
>
> "You Sabbat gringos think you can withstand the 24-inch pythons of El
> Diablo Verde, si?" (poses ferociously)
LOL
i loved that character!!!
>
> I don't know what Rob was on when he wrote that one, but maybe it should
> be more widely distributed.
of course, i think whatever it was backfired
when they created the Akashic Brotherhood superhero (with cape and utility belt
even)
Winter
Someone wrote:
>
> SHEESH! Are you ALL against me!?! =)Talk about flames...
wow!
don't think ANYONE's flamed you
i DO think most ppl disagreed with a lot of what you said
but i haven't seen any flames
calm down man
;P
Ian Turner
Theslin Wanders-through-Bramble wrote:
> I'd like to see WW's opinions on RL animal statistics, a la GURPS
> but that's some information that's lacking. Particularly since my
> mages always end up shape-shifting or summoning normal creatures.
Definitely! Although the fact that my Ghouled Rottweiler has 2
Dots of Intelligence, which is coinidentally what hsi Nosferatu master
has is a little creepy... Perhaps a bit of tweaking is in order.
Ian Turner.
Karl Ross Greenley
Excerpts from netnews.alt.games.whitewolf: 18-Feb-97 Character templates
(was Re.. by Ryan J Franklin@helium.g
> all; I just think that only _strange_ templates should be allowed in them.
The standard templates help to give a feel as to what the specific group
is about. There should probably be a stereotype or to to set the feel,
and then a couple oddballs thrown in to show the variety.
\\|//|\\|// |*********************Karl Greenley***********************
\|/ | \|/ |CMU engineering freshman. {ECE} Kiltie Band
X | X |Role Player Midi Artist/Collecter Fred Cultist
/|\ | /|\ |{Rop Polutan, Roth Polutan, Totharim Alaina,
/ | \|/ | \ | Locore Posal, Tacin Anilas, E'tan Noll} (Aliases)
< | X | > |www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~greenley (getting better)
\ | /|\ | / +---------------------------------------------------------
\|/ | \|/ |"Dreams of falling - dreams of flying Thomas
X | X | A man who never dreams goes sloly mad. Dolby
/|\ | /|\ | The dawn of science, the are of reason. -The Gate to
//|\\|//|\\ | This is the voyage of the mind's eye." the Mind's Eye
--------------+---+-----------------------------------------------------
(Doesn't quite | "We're planting the seeds for, Jan
look right, but | Another world and a better life. Hammer
it's still cool) | Give more than I take. 'Seeds of life'
------------------+ Why can't we do some thing, -Beyond the
Camarilla#9611-023+ Before it's too late?" Mind's Eye
Phn#:(412)862-2290+-----------------------------------------------------
Pledge of APhiO Asha'man of the Crimson Nae'blis of Pittsburgh
The_Apologist
Open file to alt.games.whitewolf, responding to Rich Harkrader
<crh...@pop.tamu.edu>:
]I would like your opinions on what types of supplements or products that
]you would like to see from White Wolf. I am thinking seriously of
]turining in a proposal or two for a White Wolf product and thought it
]might be smart to do a little marketing survey beforehand. I have
]several ideas about what I would like to see, but I want to know what
]other people are hungering for. I would really apprecaite any responses
]to this question, even if your response is a list of things you DON'T
]want to see. Thanks.
]
]Rich;)
Well, I have my own ideas I am trying to flesh into decent proposals
so I will omit those for personal gain. Other supplements I would
like to see:
in the same concept of WOD:Combat, I would like to see more all
encompassing, or at least multi-genre encompassing books. I feel
these are economical, meaning that one book works for several systems.
I also think they can be made to help correct oversights in rules and
begin to build crossover rules.
_______________________
Sean D. Francis se...@nwu.edu
----------------------------------------
http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~sdf742/door.htm
j_h...@hotmail.com
Personally I'd like to see something on Psychics, and something decent on
Hedge mages. Its a bit tiresome having all the rules in different books
and I think they have tons of potential.
Oh yeah, I would like -not- to see Clanbook Giovanni but I guess its a
bit late for that :)
jo
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Ethan Skemp
Winter wrote:
> of course, i think whatever it was backfired
> when they created the Akashic Brotherhood superhero (with cape and utility belt
> even)
Agreed (shudder). Thankfully, that wasn't Rob.
Of course, a Mexican Wrestler -- pardon, Luchador Profesional -- in the
Akashic Brotherhood would be great, too, but then he'd be repeating
himself.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
"Why do you barabbis locos think your Do is superior to mine? I shall
crush you with my superior rotes and inhuman strength! Prepare to be
mangled by El Caballero Invencible!"
The_Apologist
Open file to alt.games.whitewolf, responding to j_h...@hotmail.com:
]Personally I'd like to see something on Psychics, and something decent on
]Hedge mages. Its a bit tiresome having all the rules in different books
]and I think they have tons of potential.
]
]Oh yeah, I would like -not- to see Clanbook Giovanni but I guess its a
]bit late for that :)
I believe the Year of the Ally will through more insight on Numinal
abilities and Hedge Magic.
As for a Giovanni Clanbook, in my opinion, White Wolf waited too long.
I know I had to go ahead and develop the clan in a specific direction
using the information available. I have no reason to buy a Giovanni
Clanbook now as either it will duplicate all the work I've already
done, or will run contrary to what I developed. Either way it is now
useless to me.
IMHO, White Wolf should have done a 1-2-3 Slamdunk approach to the
Giovanni, starting with the Last Supper followed by Blood and Fire
then a third adventure set in modern era following the same thread
then a few months later presenting a Giovanni Clanbook.
Also IMHO, before launching Kindred of the East, White Wolf should
have one Adventure book like The Last Supper come out introducing
Occidental characters to the East. (Okay, I know TSR did the same
thing when Kara-Tur was introduced in Oriental Adventures, but it
works).
The_Apologist
Open file to alt.games.whitewolf, responding to Someone
<kha...@usa1.com>:
] I believe if you took all the art out the clanbooks, you'd have a
]full ten pages of neccessary text. Taking out the pre-made characters (I
]mean, who actually USES those?). Art is good, but limit it, I want
]quality, not art.
I do use the pre-fab characters. They really help jump start new
players or make good Off-The-Cuf NPC's. Also clan archetypes help
demonstrate the various options there are within a clan.
>
]> don't think yer gonna get this either
]> altho,e xcept got Cappadocians
]> i just really do't think there's all that much demand for DA clanbooks
]
<snip, snip>
]
] WHY?!?!!? Make it up yourself! They give you the RULES for doing
]so in EVERY storytellers guide.
They may give you the rules, but quite frankly I work 50 hour weeks
and only have time to game 12 hours a month because all my players
also work. Thus, I don't have the time to 'make it up' myself.
]
]> > 6.) NO MORE BY NIGHT BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!!
]>
]> hmm...
]> i don't think you'll have too much worry on this one
]
]I beg to differ, I think they're going to make Kiev by Night and Cairo by
]Night.
]
]>
]> alright
]> what would you want to see?
]> i mean you basically said "no more books by WW!"
]
] Precisely. Tell me, do you really need a changing breed series?
Look if you don't want it, don't buy it. It is the wonders of a free
market. Also, how do you expect White Wolf to stay in business if
they don't sell books...meaning they have to write new stuff for
people to buy or they won't have the capital to launch new games.
Gregg Eschenbrenner
In article <330B20...@white-wolf.com>, Ethan says...
>
>Winter wrote:
>
>> of course, i think whatever it was backfired
>> when they created the Akashic Brotherhood superhero (with cape and utility belt
>> even)
>
>Agreed (shudder). Thankfully, that wasn't Rob.
I came up with a cool idea for a Malkavian...
He's SUPERMAN! The only catch would be getting someone to teach him Thaumaturgy
for Movement of Mind. What good is Superman unless he can fly?
Gregg Eschenbrenner
j_h...@hotmail.com
In article <330b4687...@news.acns.nwu.edu>,
se...@nwu.edu wrote:
>
> Open file to alt.games.whitewolf, responding to j_h...@hotmail.com:
>
> ]Oh yeah, I would like -not- to see Clanbook Giovanni but I guess its a
> ]bit late for that :)
>
>
> As for a Giovanni Clanbook, in my opinion, White Wolf waited too long.
> I know I had to go ahead and develop the clan in a specific direction
> using the information available. I have no reason to buy a Giovanni
> Clanbook now as either it will duplicate all the work I've already
> done, or will run contrary to what I developed. Either way it is now
> useless to me.
Same here. That's largely why I said I'd rather they didn't bother ;)
It already screwed things up a lot by introducing the Cappadocians
(and their wacky discipline mix) -after- The Last Supper. I read up a fair
bit on the history of Venice & I sort of liked the work I'd done :-)
Trimegisto
Well i would like to see something like book of madness but more
detailed. Maybe explaining the infernal in the world of darkness.
And ways to make devils and spirits more interesting because now they
are pretty boring (only will gnos and rage to describe them ) and
not very dangerous.
Eborium
> > don't think yer gonna get this either
> > altho,e xcept got Cappadocians
> > i just really do't think there's all that much demand for DA clanbooks
>
> White Wolf doesn't freaking care about DEMAND! They are in the
> process, as we speak, of making a series of Clanbooks for the Dark Ages,
> cept they are published in sets of three. (Example: "Masters of the
> State" features Lasombra, Ventrue and Tzimisce clans).
Does anyone have any evidence for this? Would you like to comment Mr.
Achilli?
> > > 6.) NO MORE BY NIGHT BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!!
> >
> > hmm...
> > i don't think you'll have too much worry on this one
>
> I beg to differ, I think they're going to make Kiev by Night and Cairo by
> Night.
Ditto. Kiev in the dark ages really does seem an odd choice.
J
=
Justin R Achilli
Eborium wrote:
> > White Wolf doesn't freaking care about DEMAND!
[note the double quotes above; this is not Eborium's statement]
This is untrue. If we didn't care about demand, we would make the
ugliest selection of "pet project" books you would ever hope to see :)
Ultimately, we have to listen to the customer. How much demand do you
think there could possibly be for "Justin Achilli's Interprative Guide
to Madonna's Influence in Vampire: The Dark Ages"? None! But I'd still
love to do that book... :)
> > They are in the
> > process, as we speak, of making a series of Clanbooks for the Dark Ages,
> > cept they are published in sets of three. (Example: "Masters of the
> > State" features Lasombra, Ventrue and Tzimisce clans).
>
> Does anyone have any evidence for this? Would you like to comment Mr.
> Achilli?
This is true. HOWEVER, they are not true "clanbooks" for a number of
reasons. First, the clanbooks are already done, and most of them are
pretty rich in the history of the clan, making a re-hash totally
unecessary. In this sense, the Libellus Sanguinis books (the title under
which these treatments are being released) are more of a "what clan X is
up to _now_" project. You'll find within them things like Tzimisce
revenant families that died out through the 800 years between the modern
WoD and DA; powers that have fallen out of practice; factions currently
active in the Dark Medieval world; how the clan in question conducts its
affairs; all manner of new (or old as the case may be :) material. Note
that this isn't new twinkery -- you won't see Clan Ventrue's long lost
Discipline of KillEverythingus -- it's apocryphal information that has
been lost to the passage of time.
Which brings me to point two -- they're composed of all-new information.
There are no sections "lifted" from prior books; everything is written
from scratch. Yes, theree are character templates, but I've eschewed
doing so many of them (you'll only see four or five unique Dark Ages
takes on the clan as opposed to seven to ten in the modern WoD
Clanbooks). Also, there is a new DA feature (actually started in
Clanbook: Cappadocian, which is a self-contained, true "clanbook"
entity) which reveals a skeleton in the closet of the clan in question.
Did the Giovanni actually kill all the Cappadocians? Did a Ventrue plot
go awry and blight their noble record? Did the Tzimisce really kill
their Antediluvian? Something outstanding and shameful for each clan is
forthcoming; something which reveals the darkest and innermost workings
of their souls.
Third, the Libellus Sanguinis books each cover three clans at a cost of
$15 US. Compare that with the $10-12 US for a Clanbook and you can
clearly see that, where I could have easily gone for the money gouge, I
didn't.
As a gamer myself, I know that when too much stuff appears on the shelf,
I can't afford it all. And I'm not trying to do that to anyone.
> > > > 6.) NO MORE BY NIGHT BOOKS FOR THE DARK AGES!!
> > >
> > > hmm...
> > > i don't think you'll have too much worry on this one
> >
> > I beg to differ, I think they're going to make Kiev by Night and Cairo by
> > Night.
>
> Ditto. Kiev in the dark ages really does seem an odd choice.
I don't have any plans for "City X" by Night books after Transylvania.
And Transylvania is _gooooood_.
Regards,
Justin
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
- Justin R. Achilli - Vampire: The Dark Ages Developer - WWGS -
- mailto:jach...@white-wolf.com -- http://www.white-wolf.com -
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Rejection is one thing, but rejection from a fool is cruel."
- Morrissey, "I Don't Mind If You Forget Me"
Ian Turner
Gregg Eschenbrenner wrote:
> I came up with a cool idea for a Malkavian...
> He's SUPERMAN! The only catch would be getting someone to teach him
> Thaumaturgy for Movement of Mind. What good is Superman unless he can
> fly?
We had a Tremere with Movement enough to fly, Blood of Potency
(and usually a Strength and Stamina around 7 if he could afford it!) and
just enough Lure of Flames to consistently NOT do anything impressive.
My Malkavian called him Superman, since he could fly amd shoot heat
vision and had super-strength and bounced bullets off of his chest. I
promised to help him keep his secret identity as a Tremere, but told him
that it would be easier if he quit flying around...
Ian Turner.
Frenzamatic5000
I would really like to see a comprehensive work on hedge magics. Its
hard for some of us to get ahold of all the supplements that hedge magic,
numina, psychic powers, etc. are scattered in.
******************************************************************************
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd read your Garret
entrails. WHAT? OK....>RRRRIIIIIPPPPP< "Rages-in-Silence"
....That was the dumbest idea I've ever "The Frenzamatic 5000"
heard of......." -Kila Winters -Figure it out yourself
******************************************************************************
Thrush
Rich Harkrader wrote:
>
> I would like your opinions on what types of supplements or products that
> you would like to see from White Wolf. I am thinking seriously of
> turining in a proposal or two for a White Wolf product and thought it
> might be smart to do a little marketing survey beforehand. I have
> several ideas about what I would like to see, but I want to know what
> other people are hungering for. I would really apprecaite any responses
> to this question, even if your response is a list of things you DON'T
> want to see. Thanks.
>
My first item on the what if wish list would be a complete guide of
Crossover rules for the major systems. Second, would have to be an
online guide to WW gaming.
Ian Turner
Kraig Blackwelder wrote:
> I would love to see a list of the weirdest pet project books thought
> up by each line developer.
I second that!
> > Ultimately, we have to listen to the customer. How much demand do
> > you think there could possibly be for "Justin Achilli's
> > Interprative Guide to Madonna's Influence in Vampire: The Dark
> > Ages"? None! But I'd still love to do that book... :)
Wow! I did her up as a Toreador (with her movies consistently
slaughtered by jealous Poseur rivals) but she was around in the Dark
Ages??? Was she actually Marilyn once, and before that Greta and
before that 'the face that launched a 1000 ships?' Too weird. :>
> > You'll find within them things like Tzimisce revenant families that
> > died out through the 800 years between the modern WoD and DA;
> > powers that have fallen out of practice; factions currently active
> > in the Dark Medieval world; how the clan in question conducts its
> > affairs; all manner of new (or old as the case may be :) material.
> > Note that it's apocryphal information that has been lost to the
> > passage of time.
>
> I'm there. I'm on it, cash in hand, man. Dark Ages is kind of cool
> because it's not stuck in the mire that V:tM seems to be in right
> now. I'm hoping that Kindred of the East will take care of V:tM's
> doldrums and start a new chapter in vampire gaming.
Out of my way, <Push!> I saw it first. Aaiee!
(and you though Tickle me Elmo was bad!)
> It must be a real pain in the butt to balance the people who say
> "Make less!" with people like me who have an unbounded appetite
> (addiction?) for new books.
I have a job. Keep making books and I'll keep buying them (IF
they are still good! TSR just now is figuring that bit out.)
Ian Turner.
Kraig Blackwelder
In article <330CA6...@white-wolf.com>, jach...@white-wolf.com wrote:
> If we didn't care about demand, we would make the
> ugliest selection of "pet project" books you would ever hope to see :)
I would love to see a list of the weirdest pet project books thought up by
each line developer.
> Ultimately, we have to listen to the customer. How much demand do you
> think there could possibly be for "Justin Achilli's Interprative Guide
> to Madonna's Influence in Vampire: The Dark Ages"? None! But I'd still
> love to do that book... :)
I'd read it. (Probably not my own copy, but I'd read it.)
> > > They are in the
> > > process, as we speak, of making a series of Clanbooks for the Dark Ages,
> > > cept they are published in sets of three. (Example: "Masters of the
> > > State" features Lasombra, Ventrue and Tzimisce clans).
I think that sounds kind of interesting, actually. I have to admit to
hoping that they WOULD do a whole run of Dark Ages Clanbooks, just so they
could clarify things and do a 2nd edition of things as well as give us some
more in-depth ideas about how the clans were different in the Dark Ages.
> You'll find within them things like Tzimisce
> revenant families that died out through the 800 years between the modern
> WoD and DA; powers that have fallen out of practice; factions currently
> active in the Dark Medieval world; how the clan in question conducts its
> affairs; all manner of new (or old as the case may be :) material. Note
> that it's apocryphal information that has
> been lost to the passage of time.
I'm there. I'm on it, cash in hand, man. Dark Ages is kind of cool
because it's not stuck in the mire that V:tM seems to be in right now. I'm
hoping that Kindred of the East will take care of V:tM's doldrums and start
a new chapter in vampire gaming.
> As a gamer myself, I know that when too much stuff appears on the shelf,
> I can't afford it all. And I'm not trying to do that to anyone.
It must be a real pain in the butt to balance the people who say "Make
less!" with people like me who have an unbounded appetite (addiction?) for
new books.
> I don't have any plans for "City X" by Night books after Transylvania.
> And Transylvania is _gooooood_.
Constantinople by Night was fantastic. If TbN is as good, my appetite for
more Dark Ages by Night books will be heavily whetted.
K.
Mortes
Snip
> up to _now_" project. You'll find within them things like Tzimisce
> revenant families that died out through the 800 years between the modern
> WoD and DA; powers that have fallen out of practice; factions currently
> active in the Dark Medieval world;
> been lost to the passage of time.
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> - Justin R. Achilli - Vampire: The Dark Ages Developer - WWGS -
> - mailto:jach...@white-wolf.com -- http://www.white-wolf.com -
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> "Rejection is one thing, but rejection from a fool is cruel."
> - Morrissey, "I Don't Mind If You Forget Me"
>
One thing that has always confused me greatly is the thought of disciplines
dying out. The only case I coud understand this is in the event of the
entire bloodline dying out without teaching anyone else. But disciplines
for clans or bloodlines that still lived would be hard to destroy because
you have people running around that are old enough to remember when it was
first created. There was one in particular a friend told me about, a
assimite power, mastery of the blood or something similar, in which the
assamite, after achieving a certain amount of celerity and Quiteus, could
regain the blood spent on celerity at a rate of 1 point per hour. It
always amazed me that that was never placed in any material for the modern
WoD since it seems insanely unlikely it would have been forgoten or not
taught.
Judy Tuccinardi
I actually used one of the Templates once as a minor emergency NPC.
Suprisingly, it was the only in The Hierarchy that I didn't particularly
like - the Ghoul Servant or something like that. All in all, I have found
the wraith templates to be excellent. I didn't like any of them in KB:
Trolls and I hated TB: Verbena templates. My personal favorite would
have to be the Stripling Prodigy from DR:S or the Malkavian antitribu mime
for Player's Guide to the Sabbat.
BTW, I could have sworn there was a book on revenants coming out, is that
true? I wouldn't buy, but I was wondering.
Winter
Judy Tuccinardi wrote:
>
> I actually used one of the Templates once as a minor emergency NPC.
> Suprisingly, it was the only in The Hierarchy that I didn't particularly
> like - the Ghoul Servant or something like that. All in all, I have found
> the wraith templates to be excellent. I didn't like any of them in KB:
> Trolls and I hated TB: Verbena templates. My personal favorite would
> have to be the Stripling Prodigy from DR:S or the Malkavian antitribu mime
> for Player's Guide to the Sabbat.
>
i actually use the templates quite a bit
when your city is populated with 30some odd vampires
it's a pain to make up the stats for all of them
of course, what you do is never use the templates for what they're made for
ex- Brujah urban primitive bassed around the tzimcse tatooist
change a few dots here and there until yer happy
voila!
a full made character
in less than 2 minutes
> BTW, I could have sworn there was a book on revenants coming out, is that
> true? I wouldn't buy, but I was wondering.
hmm
not to my knowledge
they might be featured in Ghouls: Basic Instinct or whatever
but it's primary focus is the old fashioned slave type ghouls
--
Winter-------...@odin.cmp.ilstu.edu
NetWraithInnerCircle Member #242,Spam Ferryman
and keeper of the almighty wraith-l FAQ
"I freaked out very very badly, freaked out on acid
I live for drugs, it's great
I can't afford it, I would never buy drugs
I'm the white rabbit" -MLWTTKK "Daisy Chain 4 Satan"
Michael Fink
In article <tucci-24029...@dam-as12s22.erols.com>, tu...@erols.com
(Judy Tuccinardi) wrote:
> I actually used one of the Templates once as a minor emergency NPC.
> Suprisingly, it was the only in The Hierarchy that I didn't particularly
> like - the Ghoul Servant or something like that. All in all, I have found
> the wraith templates to be excellent. I didn't like any of them in KB:
> Trolls and I hated TB: Verbena templates. My personal favorite would
> have to be the Stripling Prodigy from DR:S or the Malkavian antitribu mime
> for Player's Guide to the Sabbat.
>
> BTW, I could have sworn there was a book on revenants coming out, is that
> true? I wouldn't buy, but I was wondering.
I'm curious as to why you hated the Verbena templates. After all,
they were all based on actual characters played in an actual game.
Perhaps this is not a redeeming feature in and of itself, but I would
imagine that fact would make them...I don't know...more well-rounded or
complete than just sitting down and cranking one out.
Please don't misunderstand...I don't find the Verbena templates to be
paragons of imagination. I liked the thought that went into the Mime,
too. But "hate" is a strong word. I am honestly curious...what Verbena
templates would *you* have made?
Take it in the spirit it was intended,
Michael Fink
--
"Silly kitty. Silly, silly kitty."
鬼helly to Omaha, "Omaha the Cat Dancer"