Sony $299 Price and LAWSUITS
Keith B. Galocy -SJ
Sony has announced a price of $299. Rumours are flying around that if
Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
(Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping. With the current strength of
the yen, the fairly high Sony BOM, has anyone heard anything on this?
No opinions please...
-Keith
(FYI: Once source of this rumour is the latest edition of Nextgen Mag. and
it's article with Mr. Tramiel)
--
# Keith B. Galocy # "The x86-compatible market is too large and #
# Advanced Micro Devices # too well-established. The x86 has become the #
# kga...@diamond.amd.com # light and Intel is just a moth." -N. Tredennick #
###############################################################################
Gumby Damnit!
>
>
> Sony has announced a price of $299. Rumours are flying around that if
> Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
> (Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping. With the current strength of
> the yen, the fairly high Sony BOM, has anyone heard anything on this?
>
> No opinions please...
>
> -Keith
>
> (FYI: Once source of this rumour is the latest edition of Nextgen Mag. and
> it's article with Mr. Tramiel)
>
I read this in the current NEXT GEN...however...I think that SAM TRAMIEL
speaks out of both sides of his mouth...in the same article that he
states that they are ready to sue SONY for dumping he states...
that at $149, the JAGUAR is selling BELOW their costs....why is one
dumping and the other is not??
David Vandenberghe
>From: "Gumby Damnit!" <cn1...@coastalnet.com>
>Subject: Re: Sony $299 Price and LAWSUITS
>Date: 15 Jun 1995 23:11:02 GMT
>kga...@diamond.amd.com (Keith B. Galocy -SJ) wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sony has announced a price of $299. Rumours are flying around that if
>> Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
>> (Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping. With the current strength of
>> the yen, the fairly high Sony BOM, has anyone heard anything on this?
>>
>> No opinions please...
>>
>> -Keith
>>
>> (FYI: Once source of this rumour is the latest edition of Nextgen Mag. and
>> it's article with Mr. Tramiel)
>>
Seriously guys, The threat to sue by Tramiel is hollow now anyways.. The
grounds they have to sue with would be that the systems were being sold at a
inflated price to the japanese consumers to subsidize the U.S. machines, which
would have been the case except that Sony lowered the price of the Japanese
machine to 29000 (299$ U.S.) so, don't worry bout it...
Dave
Erin A Fritz
Gumby Damnit! <cn1...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>kga...@diamond.amd.com (Keith B. Galocy -SJ) wrote:
>>
>>
>> Sony has announced a price of $299. Rumours are flying around that if
>> Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
>> (Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping. With the current strength of
>> the yen, the fairly high Sony BOM, has anyone heard anything on this?
>>
>> No opinions please...
>>
>> -Keith
>>
>> (FYI: Once source of this rumour is the latest edition of Nextgen Mag. and
>> it's article with Mr. Tramiel)
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>speaks out of both sides of his mouth...in the same article that he
>states that they are ready to sue SONY for dumping he states...
>that at $149, the JAGUAR is selling BELOW their costs....why is one
>dumping and the other is not??
>
>
>
and American company.
Erin
--
Erin A. Fritz
email: fr...@iastate.edu
"We've got 200 woody-inducing titles to play on it." 3DO
____DISCLAIMER______________________________________________________
|The opinions expressed above are mine and in no way represent those|
|of my employer, my school, my country, my wife, my political party,|
|myself, or my cat. |
|___________________________________________________________________|
jvarner
>In article <3rqem8$f...@treasure.coastalnet.com>,
>Gumby Damnit! <cn1...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
>>I read this in the current NEXT GEN...however...I think that SAM TRAMIEL
>>speaks out of both sides of his mouth...in the same article that he
>>states that they are ready to sue SONY for dumping he states...
>>that at $149, the JAGUAR is selling BELOW their costs....why is one
>>dumping and the other is not??
>Because one involves a foreign country selling here and the other involves
>and American company.
>Erin
Don't forget the coming trade war. If that hits as hard as some think,
(with the Japanese boycotting US T-Bills and further US retaliation.) Any
American company would be able to sue a Japanese Co. for unfair trading
and stand a very good chance of winning if the trade war persists. As
much as I want to play on the Sony, I think that this is a long time
coming and may finally force them to open their markets.
<political mode: deactivated>
With that said, I think a greater threat to the $299.99 price is the
falling Dollar/Yen scenario. If this persists, Even Sony would be
unable to stand the hit for long (unless, of course, they start making
them over here.)
JIM
Nils P Jacobsen
>
>
>Sony has announced a price of $299. Rumours are flying around that if
>Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
>(Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping. With the current strength of
>the yen, the fairly high Sony BOM, has anyone heard anything on this?
I've heard that Mr. Hawkins is after their throat. If Tramiel joins in,
more power to them. They have no case, ie. they will lose. BUT, Sony
will get TONS of FREE marketing. :) Great news, I think!
--
- Nils
------------- The Unofficial PlayStation Homepage ------------
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-----------> http://bert.cs.byu.edu/~nils/psx.html <-----------
JMacNOP
> falling Dollar/Yen scenario. If this persists, Even Sony would be
> unable to stand the hit for long (unless, of course, they start making
> them over here.)
But that assumes that Sony are selling the PSX as a lose-leader, or on
very low margins. By my guestimate is, after pulling one apart, that the
COM is around $60 to $70. The biggest variable is the price that Sony
charges between business units for the CD-ROM drive. It is a Sony custom
unit, and they have a very big factory is SE Asia churning them out in
the 100K's per month. So I'd guess $20 for CD-ROM drive, maybe $30 at
most.
The custom silicon is really chip in multi-meg units, the fixed costs of
custom are high, but the marginal costs are very very low. Silicon dies
are very cheap.
With a COM of $70 there is still lots of room for Sony to absorbe a 80
yen/dollar rate, and still make good money.
- Joseph
David S. Kelly
>With a COM of $70 there is still lots of room for Sony to absorbe a 80
>yen/dollar rate, and still make good money.
>
>- Joseph
I was reading a mag (EGM2) the other day and they had a production cost
of around $200.00(US). Don't forget that you need to add R&D costs into
the price per unit. This adds a VERY large variable, depending on how
long they plan on factoring in the R&D costs. That, and reduction in
parts costs, is what allows the manufacturer to drop the prices after the
product has been on the market a while.
The commodore 64 is a good example. $299.00 when it came out. At the end
of it's sales life it was under a $100.00
Sector Slayer
: Sony has announced a price of $299. Rumours are flying around that if
: Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
: (Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping. With the current strength of
: the yen, the fairly high Sony BOM, has anyone heard anything on this?
: No opinions please...
I believe 3do may be persuing that...in the NG article with Tom from
Sega he said they aren't actively persuing it but a certain US company
already has it in the works.
Inconnu
Not only that, but he also said "a US company with an individual at it's head"
or something like that. Could it be anything other than 3DO? My next
question is:: what about the NU64?? It's imported, and take a look at the
low down:
64bit RISC@100+MHz (most people would kill for a _computer_ with this)
500 MHz bus speed
4 game-controlers
SGI reality engine "clone" (again, costs a TON to make)
And they're gonna sell this for under 250? The CPU alone should cost more
than that...
--
-INK <kell...@isuux.isu.edu>
Idaho State University
AndreV
head"
>or something like that. Could it be anything other than 3DO? My next
>question is:: what about the NU64?? It's imported, and take a look at
the
>low down:
Actually, the latest issue of Next Generation casts some light on this.
Sam Tramiel, the head of Atari, states very clearly that Atari will sue
for illegal dumping if Sony tries to bring the PSX in at $299. He goes on
to say that since the PSX is selling for $500 in Japan, he'd probably
attempt to force Sony to bring it in at that price point.
I don't particularly like this idea, since I'm sure we'd all rather pick
up a Sony at the $299 price point. Unfortunately, he does have a point
since there are already existing laws against dumping. It's going to be
an interesting fight.
AV
B.Jury
: >Not only that, but he also said "a US company with an individual at it's
Arnt Saturns about the same price in japan? So why doesnt he sue sega as
well? Sounds to me like hes just upset because his buisness is gonna
fold. Flippin cry baby realy...
-Ben.
--
B.Jury - University Of Kent. PSX Owner WannaB.
i _WILL_ win the national lottery. Ohhh yes, it will be mine!@#
Opinions are my own, and maybe yours, if not i dont care :)
Dammit, keep posts to 75 chars wide, for us poor unixers.
Scott Blencowe
Yes but how long did it take the C-64 to drop to that price ? You'll find
that Manufactures will charge THERE price until no ones buying them anymore
or a new system appears thats superior then to keep up the sales they reduce
it, I don't really think that R&D costs worry them too much, like the PSX sold
1,000,000 in a few months Just in JAPAN, so by the time it reaches the rest of
us their R&D costs have been taken care of. >
>
Sox..!!
Tyderius
>Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
>(Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping.
Let them try. The ITC is owned for all practical purposed by the Japanese.
Many times the people on this commission become lobbyist for Japanese
companies after their term is up. A LCD screen manufacturer tried to sue
some Japanese companies for dumping afew years ago. Needless to say he
lost, and he had a very very strong case too. I saw this on the television
show Nightline if anyone is interested.
Peter Evans
>Sector Slayer <ssl...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>Keith B. Galocy -SJ (kga...@diamond.amd.com) wrote:
Looking at the subject. 299$ is only 25kyen, the existing playstations
were 41k, but you can now find them cheaper, its not going to
cause SONY any problems to sell at their chosenp
prise/// arg hweres me dlete!
price!
>Not only that, but he also said "a US company with an individual at it's head"
>or something like that. Could it be anything other than 3DO? My next
>question is:: what about the NU64?? It's imported, and take a look at the
>low down:
It doesnt exist.
> 64bit RISC@100+MHz (most people would kill for a _computer_ with this)
^^^^ I have one already, in fact, I have 3, they are a bit old now,
running at ... 133, 150, 200 Mhz.
> 500 MHz bus speed
^^^^ oh yeah, rambus. fantasy island here I come. the satanic mario
bros are going to be so fast!
> 4 game-controlers
> SGI reality engine "clone" (again, costs a TON to make)
not really. the cost is in the research, production in large
quantities is going to defray those costs
besides, its just sand. ^_^ (silicon oxide da ze)
>And they're gonna sell this for under 250? The CPU alone should cost more
>than that...
Nah, you've been listening to INTEL too much. they have a serious
monopoly and can charge what they want.
----*
oh, those three computers,
dec 3000/ 300L, 400M, 500X
they suck for gameplay,
--
Space Acapella(tm) - "In space, no one can hear you sing ..."
^_o | Gag ari! SF ari! Bijo ari! Onsen ari!
U \ Beh! | [half-male, half-email] "Ja'n ja'n pafu-pafu!"
Wayne Magor
>: Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
>: the yen, the fairly high Sony BOM, has anyone heard anything on this?
>
>: No opinions please...
>
>Sega he said they aren't actively persuing it but a certain US company
>already has it in the works.
I think it's Atari, not 3DO. Sam Tremiel said in an interview with NG
that he would *definitely* get the ITC to stop Sony if they tried to
"dump" it for $299. He was saying that it is illegal because they are
selling it for more than that in Japan. My guess is that Sony will drop
the Japanese price right before it hits the U.S. so they don't run into
problems with the ITC. That's probably why they came out with a model
that is cheaper to manufacture.
Wayne.
David S. Kelly
>to say that since the PSX is selling for $500 in Japan, he'd probably
>attempt to force Sony to bring it in at that price point.
Well, don't worry about the cost. It will probably come in at under
$300.00 As for the PSX selling for $500.00, well nothing sells for
dollars in Japan. When I arrived in Japan (2 years ago) the exchange
rate was around 100Y/$1.00 about two weeks ago it was 82Y/$1.00 The PSX
was selling for about 39,800Y. Therefore the PSX costs, 39,800Y, period.
If the Japanese tried to sell their product in US, or anywhere else, in
Japanese currency.....well it would just be silly. Dumping the PSX on
the market, no, it still costs more than the Jaguar (a decent, but
differnet system.)
One other quick note. The Japanese don't get too upset that Coca-Cola in
the can costs 110Y from a vending machine, figure that at 82Y/$1.00. No
griping from them though.
International currency is an interesting facet to the gaming industry,
but it really is irrelavent. Gameplay and value is what is important.
Both the Saturn and the PSX are excellent gamming platforms and they are
well worth their 39.000Y each.
David
Harald Manseicher
: Seriously guys, The threat to sue by Tramiel is hollow now anyways.. The
: grounds they have to sue with would be that the systems were being sold at a
: inflated price to the japanese consumers to subsidize the U.S. machines, which
: would have been the case except that Sony lowered the price of the Japanese
: machine to 29000 (299$ U.S.) so, don't worry bout it...
I heard too that Sony plans to lower the Japanese PS to Y29800. The problem
is that Y29800 is NOT $299. It is $345 .
: Dave
Harald
Scott Blencowe
> In article <3rvb99$2...@nnrp1.primenet.com>,
> Sector Slayer <ssl...@primenet.com> wrote:
> >Keith B. Galocy -SJ (kga...@diamond.amd.com) wrote:
> >
> > I believe 3do may be persuing that...in the NG article with Tom from
> >Sega he said they aren't actively persuing it but a certain US company
> >already has it in the works.
>
> Not only that, but he also said "a US company with an individual at it's head"
> or something like that. Could it be anything other than 3DO? My next
> question is:: what about the NU64?? It's imported, and take a look at the
> low down:
> 64bit RISC@100+MHz (most people would kill for a _computer_ with this)
> 500 MHz bus speed
> 4 game-controlers
> SGI reality engine "clone" (again, costs a TON to make)
> And they're gonna sell this for under 250? The CPU alone should cost more
> than that...
>
> --
> Yes but let us just remember the industry we are talking about for just
a second, the Ultra 64 won't be upon us until the middle of next year, at
the earliest, and then we can't judge the specs till then, Nintendo also
promised a the XA-Cd-rom for the Snes 2 years ago that would of been a huge
jump in technology for a small price, only problem is it never showed.
Sox..!!
B.Jury
: ssl...@primenet.com (Sector Slayer) writes:
: >Keith B. Galocy -SJ (kga...@diamond.amd.com) wrote:
: >
: >: Sony has announced a price of $299. Rumours are flying around that if
: >: Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
: >: (Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping. With the current strength of
: >: the yen, the fairly high Sony BOM, has anyone heard anything on this?
: >
: >: No opinions please...
: >
: > I believe 3do may be persuing that...in the NG article with Tom from
: >Sega he said they aren't actively persuing it but a certain US company
: >already has it in the works.
: I think it's Atari, not 3DO. Sam Tremiel said in an interview with NG
: that he would *definitely* get the ITC to stop Sony if they tried to
: "dump" it for $299. He was saying that it is illegal because they are
: selling it for more than that in Japan. My guess is that Sony will drop
: the Japanese price right before it hits the U.S. so they don't run into
: problems with the ITC. That's probably why they came out with a model
: that is cheaper to manufacture.
: Wayne.
When the jap PSX falls to 28400Y, then the price would be about 355$.
(assuming 80Y to the $) Minus the packin about $300? Atari dont
have a leg to stand on.
Jim_M...@atk.com
In article <3rvjg8$o...@cwis.isu.edu>, <kell...@cwis.isu.edu> writes:
> Xref: newshost rec.games.video.sony:2308
> Path:
newshost!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!news.kei.com!nntp.
et.byu.edu!cwis.isu.edu!cwis.isu.edu!not-for-mail
> From: kell...@cwis.isu.edu (Inconnu)
> Newsgroups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation,rec.games.video.sony
> Subject: Re: Sony $299 Price and LAWSUITS
> Organization: Idaho State University, Pocatello
> Lines: 22
> Message-ID: <3rvjg8$o...@cwis.isu.edu>
> References: <3rq9gc$h...@amdint.amd.com> <3rvb99$2...@nnrp1.primenet.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.isu.edu
> >
> > I believe 3do may be persuing that...in the NG article with Tom from
> >Sega he said they aren't actively persuing it but a certain US company
> >already has it in the works.
>
head"
> or something like that. Could it be anything other than 3DO? My next
> question is:: what about the NU64?? It's imported, and take a look at the
> low down:
> 64bit RISC@100+MHz (most people would kill for a _computer_ with this)
> 500 MHz bus speed
> 4 game-controlers
> SGI reality engine "clone" (again, costs a TON to make)
> And they're gonna sell this for under 250? The CPU alone should cost more
> than that...
>
From the article in the June NG it looked like Atari was the one that was gun
happy to shoot at Sony if they come in under a 'reasonable' pricepoint.
Jim Martin
Jim_M...@atk.com
BJ Wiklem
$299-350. Atari doesn't stand a chance.
And to the same effect, Sony Japan sells completed units to Sony America
(paper profit), so whatever Sony Japan wants to sell them to Sony America
for, they can. In effect, if it costs $300 to manufacture, Sony Japan can
sell them to the US for $250 to the US Sony counterpart with no real legal
consequences.
But if Sony America were manufacturing them themselves, and the cost was
$300, and they sold them for $250, that would be dumping.
Sony Corp will easily skate by this problem.
But everyone who posted a message missed the REAL PROBLEM: PATENTS!
Atari patented everything in the early 80's, even real simple stuff as
moving an object to the left side of the screen and appearing on the right
side again. So, the real issue is not dumping, but patents. If Sony
violates any patents, they will be in trouble, and a court of law will
side with Atari. No one messes with Patents.
If you read the EDGE/NEXT GEN article more carefully, you will see that
Atari had damn good lawyers patent everything possible. Hell, Atari could
quit the business altogether, but still make millions licensing their
patents to other companies. A patent lasts for 15 years, but quite a few
of their patents don't run out for a couple of more years.
Keep your eyes peeled for a lawsuit announcement in the papers about
patents when the PSX is released. Mark my words, that is an easy win vs.
dumping suits. But then again, that is only if Sony has violated any
Patents.
Todd M. Allendorf
>In article <3rvb99$2...@nnrp1.primenet.com>,
>Sector Slayer <ssl...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>Keith B. Galocy -SJ (kga...@diamond.amd.com) wrote:
>>
>> I believe 3do may be persuing that...in the NG article with Tom from
>>Sega he said they aren't actively persuing it but a certain US company
>>already has it in the works.
>Not only that, but he also said "a US company with an individual at it's head"
>or something like that. Could it be anything other than 3DO? My next
It's not 3DO, it's Atari. 3DO does not sell hardware and hasn't sued anybody.
Atari is the one who sues anybody it thinks is beating them. Remember when
they sued 3DO for advertising their system as being "the most advanced game
system" and the judge laughed them out of court and made Atari pay 3DO's court
costs. A similar thing will probably happen if they try to sue Sony. Of course
Sony may decide it's not worth the hassle like Sega did, and just give them some
shut-up money knowing that Atari will blow it in a few months and eventually go
bankrupt.
-Todd Allendorf
tod...@alumni.caltech.edu
QAZ1111111
your patents and you had a good case then why would you sue? If you didn't
there wouldn't be no reason to patent them in the first place. However
these patents were before the Trameils (I believe) and just shows you how
far Atari has fallen they once were great.
Second, on Sega actually making games for Atari. I'll believe this one
when I see it. To me at this time is all lip service.
I beleive Sony will get this system through, if they do not to me this
would rank right up there with the fall of the Soviet Union, not in
importance but just for point's sake. Sony throwing millions into R&D for
nothing is hard to imagine.
If the US-Japan current trade issues become a factor then hold your
breath.
BH
rio...@dd.palmer.edu
>kell...@cwis.isu.edu (Inconnu) writes:
>
>>In article <3rvb99$2...@nnrp1.primenet.com>,
>>Sector Slayer <ssl...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>>Keith B. Galocy -SJ (kga...@diamond.amd.com) wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe 3do may be persuing that...in the NG article with Tom from
>>>Sega he said they aren't actively persuing it but a certain US company
>>>already has it in the works.
>
>>Not only that, but he also said "a US company with an individual at it's head"
>>or something like that. Could it be anything other than 3DO? My next
>
>It's not 3DO, it's Atari. 3DO does not sell hardware and hasn't sued anybody.
>Atari is the one who sues anybody it thinks is beating them. Remember when
Look in this month's NEXT GENERATION for the awful truth... Interview with
Jack (Sam?) Tramiel. He mentions that if SONY is selling it for 299$, then it
is dumping and it is illegal. :p If SONY intends to sell it for anything less
than 500$US (the original Japanese price), then they will sue. They don't sue
SEGA for dumping the Saturn (REAL dumping), simply because SEGA owes ATARI big
time, and is making games for the Jag from now on (which ones, tho!)
For Tramiel, the only ones in the race are NINTENDO, SEGA, SONY, and ATARI. He
mentions 3DO "will die in a couple of years". I've seen the 3DO-M2 technology,
and I've seen the Jag booth at E3; my only answer is: "In your dreams, baby".
:)
If he sues SONY (which I think he will), is there a chance ATARI will win? Are
SONY really dumping their system, at a 299$ price tag?
Later...
Simon-Pierre.
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BJ Wiklem
Doesn't matter. When someone (or something!) buys out a company, they own
all assets. The patents were split up between Atari Corp (Tramiels) and
Atari Coin Games (Time Warner now).
But obviously Atari still owns the important patents, as it has
successfully sued Sega and won, and Nintendo is still appealing the
decision (which they will lose too).
If it was my company, and my patents, of course I would sue! Why should I
spend my R&D dollars to have someone take my finished product or method
and not pay for it! Not too defend Atari, but more power too them. Same
if Atari 3DO or any other games company copied valuable information
(Patents) that Sony spent the money to create. If I was Sony, I would sue
as well.
Anyway, no use carrying on, the dumping issue will prove an easy win for
Sony. It's the patent issue Sony will have to worry about.
David S. Kelly
>
>The PSX in Japan has had it's retail price dropped to the equivalent of
>$299-350. Atari doesn't stand a chance.
>
Close, last time I checked they were still in the 39,000 range. At 84Y
to the Dollars, that makes it a bit more. But your point is well taken!
>But everyone who posted a message missed the REAL PROBLEM: PATENTS!
FCC approval also causes some problems with foriegn products entering the
American economy. When the 32X came out Sega had to put ont he box that
it was not for use with it. I called Sega and they said that it was
because they hadn't yet recieved FCC approval for the unit as an add-on
for the 32X.
Also, both the new machines are excellent and once they hit the states
the home video game scene will NEVER be the same, until they upgrade
again (128X :)
D. S. Kelly
-----------
PSX, Saturn, Jag, Neo-Geo, Turbo-Duo, Turbo-Express, Game Gear, SNES,
CDX, 32X, MegaDrive. Addicted to games!
Shidoshi
> I've heard that Mr. Hawkins is after their throat. If Tramiel joins in,
> more power to them. They have no case, ie. they will lose. BUT, Sony
> will get TONS of FREE marketing. :) Great news, I think!
Boy, I wish I had as much confidence! =) I know little of what exactly
the laws and such are, but since we're suppose to get the cheaper, toned
down version, I hope that is the key to staying clear of any trouble. Or,
hell, if they can't get it out at $299, fine, just get it to us as low as
possible. If anyone can fight this, you had better believe Sony can. And
I think Mr. Tramiel has done a great job of drilling more hatred for him
into those of us who already thought he was scum. ;)
Shidoshi-san - Creator : PlayNation (PSX 'zine) and PS IV FAQ -
shid...@gonix.com < e-mail me for info on obtaining copies of either >
----------------------------------------------------
PSX Fund : $635.00 "Ah! The old insecticide escape trick!" - Mendo
+--------------------+ ----------------------------------------------------
| OTH(Xenon) Of++++ | Celes . Belldandy . Nakoruru . Alis . Nakoruru . SS2
| Os+++ OY-- OvV(Not | FF3 . PS 1 & 4 . Next Gen . the Millions . Tori Amos
| enough) O.+ O# OM- | Suddenly, tammy! . Miranda Sex Garden . the Murmurs
| Oc++++ <otakucode> | ----------------------------------------------------
+--------------------+ Miranda's Cafe <+1.402.346.3394> Anime & Tori Amos
Wayne Magor
bjwi...@aol.com (BJ Wiklem) writes:
>
>But obviously Atari still owns the important patents, as it has
>successfully sued Sega and won, and Nintendo is still appealing the
>decision (which they will lose too).
I believe both Sega and Nintendo settled with Atari (although Atari
would have won both times).
Has Sony violated any of Atari's patents? I wouldn't be surprised since
Atari patented every little simple thing to do with video games. Companies
shouldn't be allowed to patent obvious things, but they can and do...
>If it was my company, and my patents, of course I would sue! Why should I
>spend my R&D dollars to have someone take my finished product or method
>and not pay for it! Not too defend Atari, but more power too them. Same
>if Atari 3DO or any other games company copied valuable information
>(Patents) that Sony spent the money to create. If I was Sony, I would sue
>as well.
Of course they should sue if they have a case. I don't think people
should be so critical of them for that. I am critical for the frivolous
cases like the one against 3DO that was thrown out of court.
>Anyway, no use carrying on, the dumping issue will prove an easy win for
>Sony. It's the patent issue Sony will have to worry about.
Why do you think it's such an easy win? Atari has a good point if Sony
is selling it for less than $299 in Japan (which they are). Even if it
drops to Y29,800 that is still about $350.
I don't think Sony has much to worry about because the government is so
slow to do anything that the wars will long since be over by the time
they get around to it.
Wayne.
BJ Wiklem
Atari patented, and legalities of their patents), but I am sure it is
simple stuff that even the mighty Sony might not be able to defeat.
I agree with all of you about prohibiting patents for the silliest things,
but unfortunately, I don't think this area is really regulated as it
should be. And you all know lawyers can take a simple scenario and make
it 10x more complex than it really is (lawyers suck!).
I am just giving an opinion (and that is all it is!) based on facts that I
am aware of, and also looking at previous cases in which the scenario is
the similar.
The dumping issue will never come to pass in my book. But time will tell
if I am right or wrong. Atari may bring the suit, but that doesn't mean
that they will win. That is an almost impossible case, as it is two
different countries involved. Don't you think that Japan would try to
protect SOny, much in the same way USA would protect Atari?
Correct me if I am wrong, but does anyone really care about this subject?
I would think all you guys here want is to be able to buy the PSX asap.
And no court case is going to prevent it's timely launch.
QAZ1111111
: First, on Atari suing for their Patents. We'll if it was your company
and
: your patents and you had a good case then why would you sue? If you
didn't
: there wouldn't be no reason to patent them in the first place. However
: these patents were before the Trameils (I believe) and just shows you
how
: far Atari has fallen they once were great.
BEN REPLIED:
What patents have been voilated?
MY RESPONSE:
I'm not saying Sony infringed on any patent. An earlier post stated that
Atari was petty going around suing everybody over their patents. I was
just defending Atari a bit by saying that they had that legal right to do
so since they indeed own the patents. Thats All.
BH
QAZ1111111
Doesn't matter. When someone (or something!) buys out a company, they own
all assets. The patents were split up between Atari Corp (Tramiels) and
Atari Coin Games (Time Warner now).
REPLY:
I understand that. What I meant here was there is no way the Tramiels
would have ever been smart enough to patent their stuff.
BH
B.Jury
: Remember, folks, we're talkin' about Jack T. here. This bozo couldn't find
: his butt with both hands, can't market, AND produces *junk*...remember
: these?
: Atari 7200...
: Atari Lynx...
The atari lynx is the most powerfull handheld system, which should
of beat the GG hands down IMHO.
BJ Wiklem
>The atari lynx is the most powerfull handheld system, which should
>of beat the GG hands down IMHO.
Yeah, I forgot, technology always succeeds (Sega Master System vs.
Nintendo NES, Beta vs. VHS, DCC vs. Minidisc).
Unfortunately, this has been proven wrong. The Lynx is the most powerful
hand held (anyone care to comment on the PC Engine portable ?).
But obviously, that hasn't changed it's extinct status.
Darren R. Davis
|> Bludmajk (blud...@aol.com) wrote:
|> : Remember, folks, we're talkin' about Jack T. here. This bozo couldn't find
|> : his butt with both hands, can't market, AND produces *junk*...remember
|> : these?
|>
|> : Atari 7200...
|> : Atari Lynx...
|>
|> of beat the GG hands down IMHO.
|>
|> --
|> B.Jury - University Of Kent. PSX Owner WannaB.
|> i _WILL_ win the national lottery. Ohhh yes, it will be mine!@#
|> Opinions are my own, and maybe yours, if not i dont care :)
|> Dammit, keep posts to 75 chars wide, for us poor unixers.
I like my Atari Lynx, I thought it was an excellent system. But,
I sold it with the rest of my Atari gear (STs and such), because
Atari could market a glass of water to a thirsty man. They have
lost it, and others will succeed. IMHO this is Sony and the
serious competitors (3DO, Sega, Nintendo).
--
Darren R. Davis
Senior Software Engineer
UnixWare Developer Support
Scott Blencowe
> >Sony has announced a price of $299. Rumours are flying around that if
> >Sony DOES release their machine here for that price, that US companies
> >(Atari and 3DO) will sue them for dumping.
>
> Let them try. The ITC is owned for all practical purposed by the Japanese.
> Many times the people on this commission become lobbyist for Japanese
> companies after their term is up. A LCD screen manufacturer tried to sue
> some Japanese companies for dumping afew years ago. Needless to say he
> lost, and he had a very very strong case too. I saw this on the television
> show Nightline if anyone is interested.
>
And i'm fairly sure that, Sony would WIN if this did go to court, $299
is a fair price, and at the most is only BORDERLINE Dumping, if at all.
Now we all no that Atari will do anything to get money, Hell if i made
a crap a product as the JAG that nobody brought i'd be a tad upset too,
But Sony are too smart a company to stuff up on something like this, so
i don't think we have anything to worry about.
Sox..!!
GEORGE ARUGAY MONTEMAYOR
: Correct me if I am wrong, but does anyone really care about this subject?
--
Yes, to me this is an important subject since this situation of a
possible dumping may affect the US price of the PS-X. Surely, there may
be a few who wouldn't mind paying for a price of perhaps $345 but there
are those who are in a tight budget such as I who would be more than
happy to pay for $299 or less.
-George
Bludmajk
his butt with both hands, can't market, AND produces *junk*...remember
these?
Atari 7200...
Atari Lynx...
Atari Lynx (again)...
Atari Jag...
See the pattern? Whenever a superior technology emerges, Jack chooses to
compete in the court, not on the market.
Jack, if you're out there, Do The Math: Jag + JagCD = Cost of Playstation.
Does anyone have an email address for this wizard?
Sheesh. When is Jack gonna learn: "Selling underpowered junk gets you in
bankruptcy court."
The *only* thing that was good in my list was the Lynx; it was ahead of
it's time, but the display res and lack o' titles killed it.
Or, as Jack would have you think, it was the evil Japanese that did it,
not Atari's (which is a *very* Japanese word, BTW) ineptitude.
So let'em sue; we'll all be buying Playstions, anyway, so Sony will have
puh-leeenty of cash on hand ;)
B.Jury
: In article <10...@merlin.ukc.ac.uk>, b...@ukc.ac.uk (B.Jury) writes:
: |> Bludmajk (blud...@aol.com) wrote:
: |> : his butt with both hands, can't market, AND produces *junk*...remember
: |> : these?
: |>
: |> : Atari 7200...
: |> : Atari Lynx...
: |> The atari lynx is the most powerfull handheld system, which should
: |> of beat the GG hands down IMHO.
: |> -Ben.
: I sold it with the rest of my Atari gear (STs and such), because
: Atari could market a glass of water to a thirsty man. They have
: lost it, and others will succeed. IMHO this is Sony and the
: serious competitors (3DO, Sega, Nintendo).
Im not saying atari are gonna go bust. (I have never owned a Atari)
Just saying you cannot call the Lynx junk. (Which was made by the
guy who did the Amiga if i remeber correctly..)
IMHO its the only decent thing atari have done...
PREF...@news.delphi.com
i think atari should just give up making their CR*P.. no one wants it! it
sucks! I know few programmers working on JAG games and they say that
their only reason for programming is that they are paid by ATARI.. they
actually will quit soon and start on PLAYSTATION!!!
ATARI should make AC->D power supplies or something.. their JOYSTICK (if
you could cal it that) is totally F****D.. and their survey card asks
the computer owned by their users which fails to mention ATARI ST/FALCOM
etc etc..
PREF...@news.delphi.com
>Keep your eyes peeled for a lawsuit announcement in the papers about
>patents when the PSX is released. Mark my words, that is an easy win vs.
>dumping suits. But then again, that is only if Sony has violated any
>Patents.
it'll soon be 1996 and ATARI soon wont be able to sue anyone within 3
years (by that time, ATARI will be bankrupt anyway).. also, how does
ATARI find out whethe sony has violated any ATARI patents? REVERSE
ENGINEERING? isn't that illegal? frm what I heard thru certain people,
the PSX is a FAST 3D MACHINE.. meaning: NO SPRITES - CHARACTER SCREENS
etc etc
PREF...@news.delphi.com
>It's not 3DO, it's Atari. 3DO does not sell hardware and hasn't sued anybody.
>Atari is the one who sues anybody it thinks is beating them. Remember when
>system" and the judge laughed them out of court and made Atari pay 3DO's court
>costs. A similar thing will probably happen if they try to sue Sony. Of course
>Sony may decide it's not worth the hassle like Sega did, and just give them some
>shut-up money knowing that Atari will blow it in a few months and eventually go
>bankrupt.
the only reason why they got anything from SEGA was because SATURN (aka
SHI**URN) DOES violate ATARI PATENTS. (SEGA is another company which
sould follow the footsteps of ATARI! their systems suck! look at POPPING
OBJECTS in SATURN compared to RIDGE RACER)
PSX however, DOES NOT!! ITS PURE 3D DRAWING POLYGON MACHINE!!! I think
U64 will also be a POLYGON MACHINE (if any programmers here know, EMAIL
me!! :) )
SO, I think ATARI can only survive with their 2 16bit look alike 64 bit
machine (which I might mention DOES N OT EVEN HAVE A RESET BUTTON) for
the next few m onths and keep dreaming of becoming a big success with
their NEVER TO BE RELEASED CD SYSTEM (Battle morph sucks!!) or their 3D
glasses for their 2 customers who are really pis*ed at atari for not
having any GOOD games!! ( I am glad I sold that junk after playing it
for 2 hours.. someone paid me extra money for it)
RIP ATARI
I really want a U64!!! but PSX will do come christmas
KILGROE JEFFREY JAMES
PREF...@DELPHI.COM <PREF...@news.delphi.com> wrote:
>bjwi...@aol.com (BJ Wiklem) writes:
>
>>Keep your eyes peeled for a lawsuit announcement in the papers about
>>patents when the PSX is released. Mark my words, that is an easy win vs.
>>dumping suits. But then again, that is only if Sony has violated any
>>Patents.
>
>it'll soon be 1996 and ATARI soon wont be able to sue anyone within 3
>years (by that time, ATARI will be bankrupt anyway).. also, how does
Atari bankrupt in the next 3 years??? People have been saying
that since the early '80's! They're not going to just roll over and die.
>ATARI find out whethe sony has violated any ATARI patents? REVERSE
>ENGINEERING? isn't that illegal? frm what I heard thru certain people,
There's many ways to find out... Reverse engineering is only ONE
way to find out. And taking something apart to see how it works isn't
necessarily considered reverse engineering, and it's not illegal to take
apart a PSX in your garage if you want to see how it ticks. Sure, it
will void the warranty, but not much else.
>the PSX is a FAST 3D MACHINE.. meaning: NO SPRITES - CHARACTER SCREENS
>etc etc
Ummm... NO SPRITES? Ummm... What about all those wonderful
sprite-based games that I've been playing on my PSX? An excellent
example is Raiden. Lots of sprites moving around over tiled backgrounds,
large Atari patent there. Most likely, Atari won't even file suit with
that as one of their claims. Too many other companies have made use of
this technique, and it would look funny if Atari singled one of them out
10 years after the patent was issued when companies have been doing this
since the day after Atari did it.
I'd expect someting more along the lines of filing suit if they
dump systems or possibly on a hardware aspect. Just look what happened
with the Atari/Sega conflict. That was over Sega's infringement of
Atari's 9-pin connector copyright. Sega thought it best to settle out of
court for 90 million in cash and shares in Atari along with rights to
many of their games (not including the Virtua or Sonic games).
Business is war... If I was in charge at Atari, I would use
every advantage I had, and taking other companies to court is definitely
an advantage when patents and copyrights stand in your favor. Just look
at What Nintendo has done if you want to see downright unethical business
practices. Does that make them a bad company? In some ways yes, but in
some ways no. They just took advantage of openings in the market and
loopholes in business laws and ethics. The same thing any company that
is striving to reach the top will do.
Jeff Kilgroe
Dark Science Software
KILGROE JEFFREY JAMES
PREF...@DELPHI.COM <PREF...@news.delphi.com> wrote:
>
>the only reason why they got anything from SEGA was because SATURN (aka
>SHI**URN) DOES violate ATARI PATENTS. (SEGA is another company which
>sould follow the footsteps of ATARI! their systems suck! look at POPPING
>OBJECTS in SATURN compared to RIDGE RACER)
First off, the settlement between Atari and Sega had absolutely
nothing to do with the Saturn. This legal battle started a few years
back over Sega's violation of Atari's copyright on 9-pin joystick connectors.
>PSX however, DOES NOT!! ITS PURE 3D DRAWING POLYGON MACHINE!!! I think
>U64 will also be a POLYGON MACHINE (if any programmers here know, EMAIL
>me!! :) )
The PSX is NOT a pure 3D polygon machine. In fact, there isn't
ANY coputer out there - not even a super-hybrid SGI Reality Engine Chrome
9000 with 65,536 R8000 CPU's - none of them are pure 3D polygon
machines. The system could be used to do only 3D polygons, but that
limits the software too much, and many things just wouldn't be possible.
Could you imagine how much extra processing would be required to update
status bars, scores, title screens, etc... If everything was a 3D
polygon or set of points to manipulate!
What are you thinking, man??? What about games like Raiden on
the PSX? EVERYTHING IN THAT GAME IS A SPRITE!
As for the U64 it's a plygon CAPABLE machine, just like the PSX,
Saturn, Jaguar, 3D0, PC, Amiga, SGI, whatever... But there will still be
PLENTY of sprite games on it along with it's 3D stuff.
It sounds to me like you need to read less of those pathetic game
magazines (most edited by mental midgets and 13-year-olds). Or you need
to just learn a bit about computer systems in general before you go
spouting such misinformation.
>SO, I think ATARI can only survive with their 2 16bit look alike 64 bit
If the Jaguar (which I'm sure you're referring to) is only
16-bit, then how come I can load 64bit registers in the 64bit Object
Processor and then pass data across a 64bit data bus? If you truly
consider it a 16bit machine, then I don't understand your logic -
probably more of that drivel you read in gaming rags. And if you
consider it a 16bit machine, then I guess you also consider a 64bit
Pentium or PowerPC with a 16bit Sound Card a 16bit machine as well,
right? Also, if the Jaguar is a 16bit machine, then you must also
consider a Saturn a 16bit machine it has the same 16bit Motorola 68000
processor in it as well.
>machine (which I might mention DOES N OT EVEN HAVE A RESET BUTTON) for
Um, try pressing the * and # on the keypad... It resets the game.
>the next few m onths and keep dreaming of becoming a big success with
>their NEVER TO BE RELEASED CD SYSTEM (Battle morph sucks!!) or their 3D
Jaguar CD-ROM in stores by August 20. I'll bet you $500. Let's
see you put your money where your mouth is. And where did you play
Battlemorph? How do you know it sucks? Yeah, those pictues in Gamepro
are really informative aren't they? <chuckle>
>glasses for their 2 customers who are really pis*ed at atari for not
>having any GOOD games!! ( I am glad I sold that junk after playing it
>for 2 hours.. someone paid me extra money for it)
Hmmm.. Actually, the VR system is made by Virtuality. And I
wouldn't knock it if I were you... It's rather impressive for a $300 VR
system and it's something Sony and Nintendo don't have.
So tell me... Did Atari and Sega wrong you in another life?
Were you fired from Atari or something? Maybe next time you buy a game
system, you should give it more than 2 hours of play... Sure, the Jaguar
is not as powerful as the PSX, and the Saturn edges it out, mostly just
because the added CD storage. But these systems are a minimum of $150
more and over a year newer. What did you expect? You weren't thinking
that technology would remain static were you?
chu...@sunbelt.net
>The thing is, Atari has some stupid patents which are just common sense. It
>would be like me filing a patent for a word processor with a built in spell
>checker (say 10 years ago when there weren't any). Sure, its a great idea
>but it shouldn't be patentable.
>
So you're saying that if you invent some item that goes on to become the
only reasonable way to solve a particular problem, you should receive no
protection from having your work copied? I think everyone would agree that
in the time frame, some of the patents were valid. Is 15 years reasonable
for this industry, though? I don't think so.
I really can't fault a company for following the rules that are in place.
>From a programmer's point of view there are only a few limited ways to do things
>and only one GOOD way in most cases.
At a given point in time, this is true. On the following day, you may discover
a radically better way to do something that no one else has thought of. You
should be able to protect that development for _some_ period of time. Not
15 years, but a few years, IMO
chu...@sunbelt.net
>Remember, folks, we're talkin' about Jack T. here. This bozo couldn't find
>his butt with both hands, can't market, AND produces *junk*...remember
>these?
>
>Atari 7200...
I have to wonder how much knowledge you have about a product whose name
you don't even know. I assume you're talking about the 7800.
Atari's problem since the 2600 seems to be lack of accompanying
software. With the possible exception of the ST, I'd agree that most of the
products they've come out with since 1985 or so have had some merits. They
just have too little software! For whatever reason, too few titles appear.
I'm not going to say that the Jaguar is more powerful than the other boxes,
but I will not agree that it couldn't have a place in the market. You can't
easily say it's not easily superior, technically, to a SNES, which is it's nearest
price competitor. What it does not have, is titles that showcase what the
machine _can_ do.
The lynx was very promising as a handheld. Atari had little to do with the
development of it. As I understand, one or two of the original Amiga designers
developed it. Epyx was somehow involved, but vanished. Atari just ended up
with it. (Interesting how these guys get around. In the waning days of
Commodore, 3DO seemed to have more Commodore engineers than Commodore.)
Anyway, the Lynx' lack of titles killed any superiority it had. No matter how
cool a box is, it won't sell without titles.
The only question I have is, Why can't Atari seem to get titles for their
products?
Bludmajk
spelling and semantics, instead of concentraiong on the POINT,
chu...@sunbelt.net. Yes, I know it was a 7800.
But the point is still the same; when no one buys Atari products *for
whatever reason*, Atari sues to stifle the competition instead of making a
better product.
As for the Lynx, *I said* it was their best shot. The Scaling and rotation
were ahead of it's time; the blocky low-res graphics, which only displayed
16 out of 4096 onscreen at a time didn't help it any (nor hurt it really;
I played Electrocop to death...god I miss that game sometimes...).
What did hurt it was Sega's mega-marketing, and Atari's inability to get
3rd party folks on, even after the price drop.
That cleared up, let's back to the point, shall we? $299 for a playstation
will *cost* no more than a Jag+JagCD, but will be much more desirable and
powerful. So what does Jack do? He whines about 'unfair competition' and
drags the world into to court.
JMacNOP
how come I can
> load 64bit registers in the 64bit Object Processor and then pass data
across a 64bit
> data bus? If you truly consider it a 16bit machine, then I don't
understand your logic -
> probably more of that drivel you read in gaming rags. And if you
consider it a 16bit
> machine, then I guess you also consider a 64bit Pentium or PowerPC with
a 16bit Sound
> Card a 16bit machine as well, right? Also, if the Jaguar is a 16bit
machine, then you
> must also consider a Saturn a 16bit machine it has the same 16bit
Motorola 68000
> processor in it as well.
The main Jag processor, the one that in most cases runs the game engine,
is a 16 MHZ 68000. The '64 bit' processors are graphic co-processors. If
having 64 bit graphic co-processors makes the Jag a 64 bit machine then I
suppose that putting a 64 graphics card inside my PC makes it a 64 bit
machine.
Both the Pentium and the PPC 601/603/604 are 32 bit processors, thats how
big the internal regs are. The PPC 620 is 64 bit, but it wont be out for a
while.
The 68000 is called a 16 bit processors but it is really a 32 bit
processor, that's how big the regs are. But only 24 of the 32 address
register bits actually get to the outside world.
The 68000 in the Saturn is only used for sound, the main procs are H8's
(H70x0) which are 32 bit RISC procs.
- Joseph McConnell
Scott Wills
> the only reason why they got anything from SEGA was because SATURN (aka
> SHI**URN) DOES violate ATARI PATENTS. (SEGA is another company which
> sould follow the footsteps of ATARI! their systems suck! look at POPPING
> OBJECTS in SATURN compared to RIDGE RACER)
Correct in that the Saturn violates Atari patents. But all Sega systems
suck? Guess that's why the Sega company went bankrupt and all their
systems failed horribly huh?
> PSX however, DOES NOT!! ITS PURE 3D DRAWING POLYGON MACHINE!!! I think
> U64 will also be a POLYGON MACHINE (if any programmers here know, EMAIL
> me!! :) )
PSX is pure 3D? What about Raiden? What about Gunners Heaven? Both these are
pure 2D games. And also some of the Atari patents are hardware (such as
the 9-pin controller plug) not software. Sony will likely have violated
some of them.
The U64 a polygon machine?? The first game being touted for release
is Killer Instinct which uses 2D rendered sprites! Where do you get
off being so clueless?
> SO, I think ATARI can only survive with their 2 16bit look alike 64 bit
> machine (which I might mention DOES N OT EVEN HAVE A RESET BUTTON) for
> the next few m onths and keep dreaming of becoming a big success with
> their NEVER TO BE RELEASED CD SYSTEM (Battle morph sucks!!) or their 3D
> glasses for their 2 customers who are really pis*ed at atari for not
> having any GOOD games!! ( I am glad I sold that junk after playing it
> for 2 hours.. someone paid me extra money for it)
I'm glad you got rid of it - Atari owners don't need dweebs like you
bringing them down! I don't know where to start ripping that paragraph
to shreds!
No Reset button. - So? Too tricky to press the on/off switch twice?
Never Released CD? - You can see into the future can you?
Battlemorph sucks. - Have you played the finished game then?
2 customers. - Try 150,000 - 200,000.
> I really want a U64!!! but PSX will do come christmas
Look, just go back to playgroup ok, I'm sure the teachers will be
wondering where you got to. (and probably hoping you never come back)
Scott.
S.A.K...@open.ac.uk
QAZ1111111
Jaguar CD-ROM in stores by August 20. I'll bet you $500. Let's
see you put your money where your mouth is. And where did you play
Battlemorph? How do you know it sucks? Yeah, those pictues in Gamepro
are really informative aren't they? <chuckle>
REPLY:
This is always a crazy bet when you're counting on ATARI. You had a lot of
good points in your post but I don't think this was one of them.
BH
QAZ1111111
The main Jag processor, the one that in most cases runs the game engine,
is a 16 MHZ 68000. The '64 bit' processors are graphic co-processors. If
having 64 bit graphic co-processors makes the Jag a 64 bit machine then I
suppose that putting a 64 graphics card inside my PC makes it a 64 bit
machine.
REPLY:
The Jag Processors can be used several different ways. I presume that a
good portion of the current titles that have been released may well have
used the 68000 heavily, since many people know how to program it. But and
a big one at that, is that you can program the 64 bit chips to run almost
exclusively any intense sequences through it.
The Jag can be programed as a all 16 Bit machine, a mix between 16 and 64
bit, or a 64 bit machine. So the Jag is a multi-bit machine. Pc's cannot
be programmed mainly thorugh a graphics board of any bitness, so your
reachin a bit on that comment.
I beleive the Jag can make some outstanding games if programmed properly,
sure it has some bottlenecks. But the biggest problem with the JAG is that
you can program it through the 68000. Companies probably start out with
big aspirations then deadlines become a factor and there sits the 68000,
they probably say hey I can do it now on the 68000 so maybe I'll do this
on it, before long a sidekick chip is used as a main processor. The unit
wasn't intended to be used like this but programmers are comfortable with
it and not the 64 bit chips. Atari really needed as it seems better
developmental software.
BH
Grant C. DeLorean
>The main Jag processor, the one that in most cases runs the game engine,
It has been used most so far, but isn't the "main" processor (it can
be turned off and ignored while the other 4 processors handle games.)
Sheesh, don't make me look like I am defending the Jag...
>The 68000 in the Saturn is only used for sound, the main procs are H8's
>(H70x0) which are 32 bit RISC procs.
The "main" processors are a pair of SH2 processors running at 28.6 MHz,
with 6 other processors for other purposes (2 video, 2 sound,...) There
is no "H8" in there. Check out the Sega home page for the list...
--
/* Grant C. DeLorean (gr...@right.net) Right-Net Network Services
/* 1995 HD FLHR & 1995 BMW R1100GS
/* AMA Annual - H.O.G. Annual - NRA Life - IHMSA Life
/* TurbDUO+SNES+Genesis&CD&32X+Saturn+Jaguar+3D0+NeoGeo+(PSX ASAP) */
Grant C. DeLorean
>I'm glad you got rid of it - Atari owners don't need dweebs like you
>bringing them down! I don't know where to start ripping that paragraph
>to shreds!
> No Reset button. - So? Too tricky to press the on/off switch twice?
The reset button is on the controller, press # and * at the same time.
Is the manual that hard to read?
Scott Blencowe
> I'm glad you got rid of it - Atari owners don't need dweebs like you
> bringing them down! I don't know where to start ripping that paragraph
> to shreds!
> No Reset button. - So? Too tricky to press the on/off switch twice?
> Never Released CD? - You can see into the future can you?
> Battlemorph sucks. - Have you played the finished game then?
> 2 customers. - Try 150,000 - 200,000.
>
> > I really want a U64!!! but PSX will do come christmas
>
> Look, just go back to playgroup ok, I'm sure the teachers will be
> wondering where you got to. (and probably hoping you never come back)
>
> Scott.
> S.A.K...@open.ac.uk
>
>
>Dear me another Atari Sucker, who's still in denial! Maybe if you sell now
you'll find some other sucker to buy it, (I doubt it) Then you could try
buying a REAL machine I.E Sony Playstion!
Sox..!!
Leonardo & Javier Vega
place a lawsuit on Sony, just because Sony wants to release their
system for $299 in the U.S.? ;)