'Summon Corpse' in on Test
Tim Hess
Adar <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:82a8fh$eag$1...@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net...
> From EQCasters:
>
> 'Received some rumours from the Test Server of a possible new spell for
> Necromancers called Summon Corpse.
>
> Supposedly this spell costs 150pp per cast and 700 mana but can summon a
> corpse from anywhere in the zone.
>
> If you have any further details/screenshots of the scroll off Test Server,
> send them in.'
>
>
> Good news if this goes in:
> -End of worrying about failed Nagafen/Vox runs
> -End of the 'my corpse is lost under 3000 feet of lava' Sol A problems
> -Much easier PoF raids (no more 'scareling teleported me to Cazic's big
toe'
> incidents...)
> -Necros in West Commons now receive constant spam from L10's 0-3 zones
over
> along the lines of 'i lost my stuff and i dont no were i am, can u come
over
> and bring it back to me? will pay u 5 plats'
>
> Bad news:
> -If you thought necros were crowding out melees in the big five zones
> (planes, SolB, LGuk, Kedge) *before* this little gem was put in...
>
> Brudo (E'ci)
> Loredaeron (E'ci)
>
> ---
> From the Asheron's Call Player's Guidebook:
> 'Trading with other players is your best method of gaining the most
valuable
> and
> unique items. However, just like in the real world, you must gain the
trust
> of
> your trading partner. If that proves difficult, consider using a reliable
> third party
> as a trading broker.'
>
> Trusting a trading broker: Zero dollars.
> Getting ripped off: Zero dollars.
> Venting about it: Zero dollars.
> The expression on your face when you read the above quote: Priceless.
>
> Some things you simply can't buy. For cancelling them, there's Mastercard.
>
>
Joe C.
news:53624.12342$wG3.8...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> Not sure if 150 plat/700 mana would help much. ;-)
>
Considering the possibility of facing death at the feet of a dragon, I'd
say its nice to have a last resort, even a costly one.
-Aildrik
Adar
Sean
--
Sean S. -:- ICQ: 1826323
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"I tell you, there's nothing we're afraid to nerf. :)" - Brad McQuaid;
Everquest Producer
Brad McQuaid wrote in message <3848DDE1...@verant.com>...
>Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make the game
>easier and to help players save time! :)
>--
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Brad McQuaid
>Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
>Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
Pegasus
check your spdat.eff in the everquest dir, Summon Corpse is listed, did
this go live?? Ive heard rumors that it has and cost us 150@pp to cast. Is
it true?? Did it go live from the test server and they didnt tell us?
Omy, now we will REALLY get flamed hmmmmmm
Tell me its so ;)
--
Enough shovels of earth -- a mountain. Enough pails of water -- a river.
Adar <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:82a8fh$eag$1...@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net...
JubJub McRae
wrote:
>Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make the game
>easier and to help players save time! :)
Notice the warrior nerf twist at the end of the original post though..
=).
Jeff Hoppe
Jeff
Cadfael
Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
news:3848DDE1...@verant.com...
> Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make the
game
> easier and to help players save time! :)
>
Adar
JubJub McRae <mrju...@REMOVETHISPART.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3849464...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
game
> >easier and to help players save time! :)
>
> =).
Heh. Yeah, I'm way too bitter about this :)
Draaxxafin
> -If you thought necros were crowding out melees in the big five zones
> (planes, SolB, LGuk, Kedge) *before* this little gem was put in...
In POF/POH yah, The spell will be usefull. But if you have a certian
class/race
misk, you can walk around POH and NOT be KOS, much easier for corpse
recovery =) lol.
As for SolB. The only time the spell would be of any real use is if you have
a failed dragon run and need to do CR. For 700 mana and 150 pp per cast,
I dont think you'd see this spell being used to often to get your body out
of the bug hall.. lol =)
As for lower guk - why the HELL would you waste 170 some PP just
to get your corpse, when you can easily just invis (live side) or ITU (dead
side) and run down to your body and drag it out?
Same goes for kedge, friend of mine did CR for his friends when they died
just before that big guys room.
.. Dont see how this would be effecting warriors any, except that when they
are
dead at the feet of Lady Vox, or got feared into the bear pit that their
body will
be a whole lot easier to get to.
Prostuck
never be a cost of plat when casting a spell, that's ridicules. Even
in the crap game D&D there's no such thing. If this is true then Brad
McQuaid is a bigger Moron than I thought.
"Joe C." wrote:
>
> Sean <NO....@WILL.SEE.THIS> wrote in message
> news:53624.12342$wG3.8...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> > Not sure if 150 plat/700 mana would help much. ;-)
> >
Gann0n
ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com says...
> From EQCasters:
>
> 'Received some rumours from the Test Server of a possible new spell for
> Necromancers called Summon Corpse.
>
> Supposedly this spell costs 150pp per cast and 700 mana but can summon a
> corpse from anywhere in the zone.
>
> If you have any further details/screenshots of the scroll off Test Server,
> send them in.'
>
>
> Good news if this goes in:
> -End of worrying about failed Nagafen/Vox runs
see below
> -End of the 'my corpse is lost under 3000 feet of lava' Sol A problems
true.. once.
> -Much easier PoF raids (no more 'scareling teleported me to Cazic's big toe'
> incidents...)
see below
> -Necros in West Commons now receive constant spam from L10's 0-3 zones over
> along the lines of 'i lost my stuff and i dont no were i am, can u come over
> and bring it back to me? will pay u 5 plats'
unless its stuck in a wall, why not just use "locate corpse"?
>
> Bad news:
> -If you thought necros were crowding out melees in the big five zones
> (planes, SolB, LGuk, Kedge) *before* this little gem was put in...
>
Other info is that its a lvl 39 spell, and the 150pp(not sure what CHA
value they are useing tho..) comes as the cost of the
unstackable/lore/10lbs/can't put in a backpack/one time use item that is
needed for the spell.. so unless you have one Necro for each party member
that dies in Planes/Dragon hunts its not to help much..
they an't making us GMs yet! =)
--
The Pharisee Gethsemani
24th Human Necro
Rallos Zek
Rahab
15th Wood Elf Warrior
Quellious
danstrad
Adar wrote in message <82a8fh$eag$1...@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net>...
>From EQCasters:
>
>'Received some rumours from the Test Server of a possible new spell for
>Necromancers called Summon Corpse.
>
>Supposedly this spell costs 150pp per cast and 700 mana but can summon a
>corpse from anywhere in the zone.
>
>If you have any further details/screenshots of the scroll off Test Server,
>send them in.'
>
>
>Good news if this goes in:
>-End of worrying about failed Nagafen/Vox runs
>-End of the 'my corpse is lost under 3000 feet of lava' Sol A problems
>-Much easier PoF raids (no more 'scareling teleported me to Cazic's big
toe'
>incidents...)
>-Necros in West Commons now receive constant spam from L10's 0-3 zones over
>along the lines of 'i lost my stuff and i dont no were i am, can u come
over
>and bring it back to me? will pay u 5 plats'
>
>Bad news:
>-If you thought necros were crowding out melees in the big five zones
>(planes, SolB, LGuk, Kedge) *before* this little gem was put in...
>
>Brudo (E'ci)
>Loredaeron (E'ci)
>
danstrad
Prostuck wrote in message <38498D9C...@home.com>...
rscot...@my-deja.com
"Draaxxafin" <su...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Bad news:
> > -If you thought necros were crowding out melees in the big five
zones
> > (planes, SolB, LGuk, Kedge) *before* this little gem was put in...
I don't think this is going to affect any necro ratio that much.
This spell seems clearly designed to help in failed high level raids.
I *don't* expect this to be one of the spells that necros keep memmed
all the time. Or maybe even buy, until they are say, 45+.
> As for SolB. The only time the spell would be of any real use is if
you have
> a failed dragon run and need to do CR. For 700 mana and 150 pp per
cast,
> I dont think you'd see this spell being used to often to get your body
out
> of the bug hall.. lol =)
>
> As for lower guk - why the HELL would you waste 170 some PP just
> to get your corpse, when you can easily just invis (live side) or ITU
(dead
> side) and run down to your body and drag it out?
>
> Same goes for kedge, friend of mine did CR for his friends when they
died
> just before that big guys room.
Especially at the cost.
>
> .. Dont see how this would be effecting warriors any, except that when
they
> are
> dead at the feet of Lady Vox, or got feared into the bear pit that
their
> body will
> be a whole lot easier to get to.
Exactly.
And now Brad seems to think that this somehow makes the game easier.
Hah. LOL. He really doesn't understand does he.
---ralph
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
<DL>
wrote:
>Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make the game
>easier and to help players save time! :)
Yeah, and it's cheaper than an emergency 1000pp gate potion. So
you're savin' money too. Heh.
<DL>
<Narise on Karana>
<The easy arrogance of a cat is an art.>
Philth
>Its not gonna be a cost of pp, itll use a reagent that costs ~150pp.
Kinda curious how someone can pay when all the money is on their corpse? :)
------------------------------------------------------
I can see Necros getting screwed over:
NakedGuy1: Dude, need my corpse, got the money on my corpse.
Necro: Alright, ill get it.
Necro casts spell.
NakedGuy1: Thanks.... Sucker!
Necro is screwed out of 150PP and puts guy on list not to summon anymore.
----------------------------------------------------
Now THAT is gunna blow because there are so many dimwits around who will be
doing this. And whats worse is when a PoF team gets wiped, a necro is going to
be spammed so hard, and is going to lose track of everything.
Just some things I just thought about... As a Necro you dont HAVE to summon
for anyone, but man... What a downer. You could be screwed out 150PP at any
moment.
One way around is have the person /consent you the corpse before you cast the
spell to insure that you will have a chance to speed loot his ass first and
get the money yourself.
Shortest Barbarian On The Block
their corpse. I never carry more than I'm willing to lose and never less than
I might actually need--for me, that runs around 15-25pp for my Enchanter and
about 40 or 50 for my Troll. (He spends more time away from home than she does
and can't shop himself, so he has to hire people to do it for him.)
Or, if nothing else, the warrior could buy one of those gems and keep it in his
bank vault to hand to the necro, just in case...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
<i>There are some things you can't share without
ending up liking each other, and knocking out a
twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them.</i>
-- J.K. Rowlings
jpg71
news:o9l24.1374$nN4....@news.rdc1.il.home.com...
> Now THAT is gunna blow because there are so many dimwits around who will
be
> doing this. And whats worse is when a PoF team gets wiped, a necro is
going to
> be spammed so hard, and is going to lose track of everything.
>
> Just some things I just thought about... As a Necro you dont HAVE to
summon
> for anyone, but man... What a downer. You could be screwed out 150PP at
any
> moment.
>
> One way around is have the person /consent you the corpse before you cast
the
> spell to insure that you will have a chance to speed loot his ass first
and
> get the money yourself.
How is it implemented on TEST right now, does the owner have to /consent
before you can summon or is it like a res where a message box pops up to
prompt the owner?
Nibiru
the money amount probably would come from a gem used as a regent,
which costs 250play or whatever.. Kind of like the Rune line of
spells with enchanters
On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 21:54:45 GMT, Prostuck <pros...@home.com> wrote:
>Now that is totally stupid, that's gotta be bullshit, there should
>never be a cost of plat when casting a spell, that's ridicules. Even
>in the crap game D&D there's no such thing. If this is true then Brad
>McQuaid is a bigger Moron than I thought.
>
>"Joe C." wrote:
>>
>> Sean <NO....@WILL.SEE.THIS> wrote in message
>> news:53624.12342$wG3.8...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
>> > Not sure if 150 plat/700 mana would help much. ;-)
>> >
>> Considering the possibility of facing death at the feet of a dragon, I'd
>> say its nice to have a last resort, even a costly one.
>>
>> -Aildrik
-------
Nibiru, 17th level Enchanter
Mithaniel Marr
Bad Tailoring
Good Baking
Average Blacksmithing
Very Bad Jewelry Making
Below Average Brewing
Master Pottery
Above Average Fishing
** Sig created by EQ Sig Creator version 0.5 **
Nibiru
Barbarian On The Block) wrote:
>
>Or, if nothing else, the warrior could buy one of those gems and keep it in his
>bank vault to hand to the necro, just in case...
>
absolutly !! If I was a necro and didn't know them, they would have to
give me the gem AND some money before I summoned it..
Mark Mealman
>Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make the game
>easier and to help players save time! :)
>
Hrm. Why do I have this awful feeling Verant will be coding in new zones and
monsters that'll make use of this spell :)
-Mark
--
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Jerome Chan
"Pay a monthly fee of 200pp and your corpse will be summoned for you!"
John Vukusic
Im a cleric, so corpse recovery is a huge part of my game, so I was a bit upset
that Necros only will be getting this spell... since it really does seem like a
cleric utility spell.
But I just realized... DONT GIVE IT TO US! Clerics DONT want it... Hell with
that, we will immediatly have to cast a 700 mana spell after the necro does, so if
we had both, we'd be "Expected" to cast both. Clerics have been casting Manahog XP
resses and buffs with expensive regents forever...
Woohoo... Now Necros... share our pain. Your more than welcome to it.
HAHAHAHA
Gann0n wrote:
> In article <82a8fh$eag$1...@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net>,
> ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com says...
> > From EQCasters:
> >
> > 'Received some rumours from the Test Server of a possible new spell for
> > Necromancers called Summon Corpse.
> >
> > Supposedly this spell costs 150pp per cast and 700 mana but can summon a
> > corpse from anywhere in the zone.
> >
> > If you have any further details/screenshots of the scroll off Test Server,
> > send them in.'
> >
> >
> > Good news if this goes in:
> > -End of worrying about failed Nagafen/Vox runs
>
> see below
>
> > -End of the 'my corpse is lost under 3000 feet of lava' Sol A problems
>
> true.. once.
>
> > -Much easier PoF raids (no more 'scareling teleported me to Cazic's big toe'
> > incidents...)
>
> see below
>
> > -Necros in West Commons now receive constant spam from L10's 0-3 zones over
> > along the lines of 'i lost my stuff and i dont no were i am, can u come over
> > and bring it back to me? will pay u 5 plats'
>
> unless its stuck in a wall, why not just use "locate corpse"?
>
> >
> > Bad news:
> > -If you thought necros were crowding out melees in the big five zones
> > (planes, SolB, LGuk, Kedge) *before* this little gem was put in...
> >
>
Whuz
pay 150pp for such an 'easy and time saving' piece of shit. I POOP ON
YOU.
Jeezuz, dude - how this affect more than 1 percent of the players?
On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 09:21:05 GMT, Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com>
Chris Godfrey
>
> In article <82c490$87l$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>, "danstrad" <dans...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
> >Its not gonna be a cost of pp, itll use a reagent that costs ~150pp.
>
> Kinda curious how someone can pay when all the money is on their corpse? :)
Who carries all their money on them?
Alasdair Allan
> 'Received some rumours from the Test Server of a possible new spell for
> Necromancers called Summon Corpse.
>
> Supposedly this spell costs 150pp per cast and 700 mana but can summon a
> corpse from anywhere in the zone.
I'd *like* to think that this is Verant responding to players desire for an
"easy out" when things go wrong against Dragons or in the Plance.
I'd like to.
But I can't help thinking this will be the scenario soon to be posted to
this place and others :-
you: /petition My corpse is behind the zone line/in a wall
GM: Hi, GM Fuckwitus here, you say you can't get to your corpse
you: No, its the old zone line/wall bug
GM: I see, ok, there is a new spell called Summon Corpse just for this
situation you need to find a Necromancer and he will help you
you: Err, its a bug
GM: Good luck
Also it will no doubt be used as the solution to Lava deaths. Ouchie for
all those lowbies in Lavastorm Mountains or even the midbies in Solusek A
who probably aren't all going to have 150pp spare.
This will greatly reduce the burden on GMs (one of whose main current
functions is the return of bug death corpses to a lootable postion) and also
add a money sink (too bad if you're level 15 and die in lava now).
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
James Adams
>
> Also it will no doubt be used as the solution to Lava deaths. Ouchie for
> all those lowbies in Lavastorm Mountains or even the midbies in Solusek A
> who probably aren't all going to have 150pp spare.
You mean GMs will fetch your body if it falls in lava?? I was under
the impression that it was permanent...you loss that body and all the
stuff on it. Even the chance to recover the body would have been a
plus.
> This will greatly reduce the burden on GMs (one of whose main current
> functions is the return of bug death corpses to a lootable postion) and also
> add a money sink (too bad if you're level 15 and die in lava now).
>
> --
> Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
> x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
> X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
> http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
--
James W Adams - j...@soon.com
Asmodeus
gaping chest wounds, rather than do any major surgery to fix it. Im not a
doctor, but I imagine it would take alot of bandaids to cover a massive
wound, and youd probably lose alot of blood, get a nice staff infection and
possibly even die.
>I'd *like* to think that this is Verant responding to players desire for an
>"easy out" when things go wrong against Dragons or in the Plance.
>
>I'd like to.
>
>But I can't help thinking this will be the scenario soon to be posted to
>this place and others :-
>
>you: /petition My corpse is behind the zone line/in a wall
>GM: Hi, GM Fuckwitus here, you say you can't get to your corpse
>you: No, its the old zone line/wall bug
>GM: I see, ok, there is a new spell called Summon Corpse just for this
>situation you need to find a Necromancer and he will help you
>you: Err, its a bug
>GM: Good luck
>
>Also it will no doubt be used as the solution to Lava deaths. Ouchie for
>all those lowbies in Lavastorm Mountains or even the midbies in Solusek A
>who probably aren't all going to have 150pp spare.
>
Dan Bongard
>Now that is totally stupid, that's gotta be bullshit, there should
>never be a cost of plat when casting a spell, that's ridicules. Even
>in the crap game D&D there's no such thing. If this is true then Brad
>McQuaid is a bigger Moron than I thought.
(1): Everquest has had spells that cost money since day one.
(2): D&D has had numerous spells that cost money for at least
twenty years.
-- Dan
Cynic
<bmcq...@verant.com> wrote:
> Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make
> the game easier and to help players save time! :)
Indeed, given the level of malice you and the rest of the nerfing team
have shown for the players over the last several patches at least, I
find it hard to believe that this spell will survive for long on the
live servers in its current form--if it makes it there at all.
--
Cynic
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Adar
James Adams <j...@soon.com> wrote in message
news:384C0333...@soon.com...
> Alasdair Allan wrote:
>
> >
> > Also it will no doubt be used as the solution to Lava deaths. Ouchie
for
> > all those lowbies in Lavastorm Mountains or even the midbies in Solusek
A
> > who probably aren't all going to have 150pp spare.
>
> the impression that it was permanent...you loss that body and all the
> stuff on it. Even the chance to recover the body would have been a
> plus.
Lava death is not permanent; the body's still there, just under a really
deep pool of stuff that really really hurts :/
You can get it out by repeated 'loot and gate', levitating into the lava,
or, if you're lucky, /corpsing it out.
The GM's will help in limited circumstances; how far they'll go depends on
the GM.
Brian Cully
> You mean GMs will fetch your body if it falls in lava?? I was under
>the impression that it was permanent...you loss that body and all the
>stuff on it. Even the chance to recover the body would have been a
>plus.
I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to rescue a corpse in the lava
unless it got there through some bug. This'll save a lot of grief
for 'em, I think, since now they can say something other than "No,
you're screwed. Go get levitate and a group gater, and a lot of
luck."
Archi Tuttle
Monk at Large
Innoruuk
Huntgod
little spell from ever being born.
Or you will forget to add a yes/no consent button and malicious Necromancers
will be porting corpses all over the damn place and snickering.
Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
news:3848DDE1...@verant.com...
Adar
Huntgod <hun...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:W5Y24.1081$Ze7....@news3.mia...
(snip)
> Or you will forget to add a yes/no consent button and malicious
Necromancers
> will be porting corpses all over the damn place and snickering.
At 150 plat a shot? Even at L44, it would have to be one VERY malicious
necromancer...
Joe C.
news:38498D9C...@home.com...
> Now that is totally stupid, that's gotta be bullshit, there should
> never be a cost of plat when casting a spell, that's ridicules. Even
> in the crap game D&D there's no such thing. If this is true then Brad
> McQuaid is a bigger Moron than I thought.
You are aware that the cost for the spell I'm talking about is for the
spell component? You also realize there are many spells that currently use
spell components? (shieldskin/steelskin line, for example). What the heck
is the big deal? Considering all the money L50 players probably have,
parting with 150pp (the cost of the spell component) for a guaranteed safe
corpse recovery is a *tiny* price to pay.
-Aildrik
L40 Necromancer, Tarew Marr
Sang K. Choe
>Now that is totally stupid, that's gotta be bullshit, there should
>never be a cost of plat when casting a spell, that's ridicules. Even
>in the crap game D&D there's no such thing. If this is true then Brad
>McQuaid is a bigger Moron than I thought.
Yet another well thought out comment...sigh.
There are many spells in the game that already requires a reagent for
them to function--some reagents are cheap, some are not, some are mob
dropped, others are vendor bought (some are both), some are used up
when the spell is cast, some are not.
As for your reference to D&D, at least the pen & paper version
practically *EVERY* spell had to have components--no components, no
spell. And some of the higher level spell components cost a shitload
of coins.
So try again...err, on second thought, don't.
-- Sang.
ME
gems for my pets while out in the qeynos hills and not willing to risk
trying to shop in town.. i'd love to have the option of using money instead
of the gems at times... :)
yes i do think it would be fair if they did put in a summon corpse spell to
have it cost money.. but really not more then a plat or two per level of the
corpse (or the owner of the corpse anyway) or cost them 50-100% of the loot
from the corpse
ME
"Sang K. Choe" <sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> wrote in message
news:38575143.438676125@newsvr...
Brad McQuaid
> In article <3848DDE1...@verant.com>, Brad McQuaid
> <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote:
>
> > Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make
> > the game easier and to help players save time! :)
>
> Indeed, given the level of malice you and the rest of the nerfing team
> have shown for the players over the last several patches at least, I
> find it hard to believe that this spell will survive for long on the
> live servers in its current form--if it makes it there at all.
I and the rest of the 'nerfing team' put the following document together listing
both enhancements and 'nerfs' we've made to the game since launch. And while we
probably forgot some things, both negative and positive (please let us know and
I'll update the document), I think it puts in perspective the ratio of positive
vs. negative changes to the game we've made. I also feel it heartily
invalidates the assertion that we are out to make the game harder or to have
players advance slower overall, or that 'all we do is nerf'.
The following is broken down by class, and then addresses those changes made
that affect the whole game. Changes we feel are positive from just about any
perspective are denoted with a '+', and those some players might consider a
'nerf', but that we felt were important for the long term health of the game,
are denoted with a '-'.
(again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-'; please feel free
to comment and add items).
WIZARDS:
+ Added additional means by which to obtain Ice Comet
+ Made Researching much easier
+ Added more high level spells
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+ Enhanced AoE Spells to let Wizard effect more creatures
+ Added Plane Travel Spells
+ Enhanced Specific Wizard Stun Spells
+ Added AoE slow monster spell (c.f. Bonds of Force)
RANGERS:
+ Introduction of better average armor that is easier than most to get
+ Critical Bow hits
+ Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
+ Made Ebony Blade group friendly
+ More variety of items obtained via the Forage skill
+ Increased defensive skill caps (parry, dodge)
+ Added innate resistance to fire and cold
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Added additional Ranger Spells
+ Changed Some Spell Casting Skills to allow easier Skilling
(c.f. Dance of the Fireflies)
DRUIDS:
- DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
+ DoT changed positively to enhance group play
+ Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
+ Increased druid's tracking ability
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+ Enhanced Pet/Charmed Animal Pathing
+ Enhanced Some Druid Anti-Movement Spells (c.f. Ensnare,
Grasping Roots, etc.)
+ Lowered the Casting Level of Some Druid Teleport Spells
PALADINS:
+ Added Archery
+ Added innate resistance to disease
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Increased stats of Armor of Ro items
SHADOWKNIGHTS:
+ Spell changes (added lifetap)
+ Made Harm Touch less resistible
+ Added innate resistance to poison and disease
- DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
+ DoT changed positively to enhance group play
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+/- Feign Death Changes – Better for Low Level Character, Better
for High Level once learning curve has passed
+ Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
+ Changes to Pet Appearances
CLERICS:
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
- Resurrect Changes (Players come back sick)
+ Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
+ Reduced the Casting Time of Some Spells (c.f. Word of
Healing/Health, Ward Series)
MONKS:
+/- Feign Death Changes – Better for Low Level Character, Better
for High Level once learning curve has passed
+ New tailoring armor
+ Added items that boost stats, etc.
+ Added innate resistance to fire
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
NECROS:
- LifeTap/Dots changed
+ Some Lifetap Spells Made more mana efficient
- High Level (39+) Pets weakened
+ DOTs made more efficient
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+ Necromancer Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
+ Added Special Items to let Necromancers Summon Stronger Pets
+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
through your pet
+ Lots of New Spells (c.f. Screaming Terror, Pact of Shadow,
Vampiric Curse, Bond of Death, Summon Corpse, etc.)
+ Enhanced Call of Bones Series
+ Enhanced Screaming Terror
- Added a Recast Time to Pact of Shadow
+ Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
+ Added New Looks to Necromancer Pets
- Removed Charm
+ Enhanced Pet Pathing
+ Reduced the Casting Time of Some Necromancer Spells
+ Made Research Easier & Fixed Broken Research
+ Added Quests to let Necromancers Quest (instead of Research) their pets
+ Enhanced Effectiveness of Some Spells (Shadow Vortex, Surge of
Enfeeblement, Ignite Bones, Dead Man Floating, etc.)
Magicians
+ New summon item spells
- High Level (39+) Pets weakened
+ Better mid+ level pets (they cast spells now)
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+ Magician Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
+ Enhanced Pet Pathing
+ Added Special Items to let Magicians Summon Stronger Pets
+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
through your pet
+ Made Magician Research Easier – especially for their pets
+ Added Spell Effects to most Magician Summoned Items
+ Enhanced AoE Spells to let Magicians effect more creatures
+ Reduced Mana Cost of Damage Shields
+ Reduced Casting Time of Ward Series
+ Made the Malise Series Stack Better
+ Made the Burnout Series Better
BARDS:
+ Added stat and other bonuses to instruments
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
through your pet
+ Added Addition Effects to Some Bard Songs
+ Added New Bard Songs
+ Added Ability for Bards to Punch 'Magic Only' Creatures
+ Increased the Power of Some Bard Songs (c.f. Chant Series,
Fifil’s, etc.)
WARRIORS:
+ Added critical melee hits
+ Later increased chance of critical hits
+ More Hit Points
+ Innate Magical Resistance
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Added Berserking
ROGUES:
+ Added Poison skill
+ Thrown Weapon Critical Hits
+ Minimum Backstab Damage Implemented
+ Minimum Backstab Damage Later Upped
+ Hide/Sneak Enhanced
+ Added innate resistance to poison
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Improvements to Poison Skill
ENCHANTERS:
+ Jewelry Trade
- High Level (39+) Pets weakened
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+ Made Tishan stack better and removed recasting time
+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
through your pet
+ Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
+ Increased Durations of All Illusions
+ Made Research Easier
- Made Illusion Wolf OD Only
+ Added Mana Enchant Spells to Allow Item Enchantment
+ Made Enchanter Pets Look Different
+ Enhanced Certain Spells (curse of the simple mind, etc.
+ Added More Effects to High Level Illusion Spells
+ Better Pet Pathing
SHAMAN:
+ Added Shrink Spell
- Took too long to recognize Alchemy bug
- High Level (39+) Pets weakened
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
+ Added more Class Specific Items
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+ Made Malise stack better and removed recasting time
+ Better Pet Pathing
- DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
+ DoT changed positively to enhance group play
+ DoT’s Made Stronger
+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
through your pet
- Removed Charm Spell
+ Increased the Duration of Buffs
ALL MELEE:
+ Purchasable Potions added, giving more versatility to melee
classes and adding a money sink to the game to help the economy
ALL CASTERS:
- Removal of Manastone
+ Made it such that you can see meditating (levels 35+)
+ Implemented Specialization
ALL:
+ HALVED experience loss death penalty
- Removal of weightless box spawn
+ Purchasable weightless box added
- Introduction of Frenzy code (after level 19)
+ New emotes and animations
+ New graphics for weapons
+ Populated Plane of Fear
+ Populated Plane of Hate
+ Populated Kedge Keep
+ Populated and added Temple of Solusek Ro
+ Increased range for evac and teleport spells
+ Added second boat between Freeport and Butcherblock
+ Added class specific quests for many classes
+ Increased treasure and experience gain rewards for many older quests
- Upgraded NPC AI such that if an NPC is stuck it can teleport
around obstacle
+ Added /follow command
+ Added adjustable clipping plane
+ Added /yell command
+ Added /friends list
+ Increased frequency and complexity of dynamic quests and events
+ Added ability to rearrange spells in spellbook
+ Added additional chat filters
--
---------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
---------------------------------------------
Billy Shields
[comprehensive list snipped]
Interesting read. Just a couple of things:
Rogues/Shamans/Rangers/Clerics/Warriors:
- Removed rubicite (of which the bp is the only real problem)
Monks:
- The FD change is a BIG minus. Feign death = train death. Its
not good to have a monster (that could be halfway across the zone)
come back to get you immediately when it can drag everything it
sees on the way with it. I can understand the need for some change
(because of the feign death/pet attack exploit for instance) but
this change really screws monks not necros.
All classes:
- Made dragons see invis (which I personally agree with)
- Nerfed the Fear Plane to the point of being ridiculous (getting
half killed before you zone, aggro range of scarelings, etc)
- Nerfed the drop rates on Planes stuff (greatly benefitting those
who camped it during the first week)
+ Added the flashing npc names for target (this was was great)
+ Added message about party members going LD
The annoying thing is the list of longstanding bugs however:
1. Losing messages when zoning. This one I hate because you can
miss people talking to you.
2. Zone lag/crash problems associated with number of players (of
issue on dragon raids).
3. Dragon fear problems.
4. Boat problems (eg game crashes when you zone, getting attacked
at sea when you can't cast spells back).
5. Corpses disappearing into walls.
6. Corpses invisible to you (but not to others) until you camp.
7. Party problems (eg the game thinking you're in a party when you're
not so you have to camp, the leader going LD means you have to
reform).
8. Monsters getting stuck in walls and having to be killed and
respawned by GMs.
Then theres the list of nice-to-have enchancements. To name a few:
1. Tell/chat histories. Allow you to see the last 20 messages
told to you or shouted, ooc'ed or whatever (a separate list for
each type of message).
2. Some class specific armour and/or weapon quests for druids (I
don't count the ones in Rathe Mountains because those are quite
useless imho considering the effort required).
3. Teleport access to Everfrost for druids and wizards.
4. Stopping greens 20 levels below you being able to kill you so
easily, particularly with spells (try and cast a spell on something
5 levels above you let alone 20 and see how far you get).
Brett Hawn
> MONKS:
> +/- Feign Death Changes – Better for Low Level Character, Better
> for High Level once learning curve has passed
> + New tailoring armor
> + Added items that boost stats, etc.
> + Added innate resistance to fire
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
Items that boost stats? You're kidding right? Innate fire resistance?
Please.. take it back and give me realistic resistances to disease and
poison.
I won't even talk about the joke that is our quests and items, lets just say
you don't see any monks past 30th wearing any of that crap.
mida...@my-deja.com
Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote:
> I and the rest of the 'nerfing team' put the following
> document together listing both enhancements and 'nerfs' we've made
> to the game since launch. And while we probably forgot some things,
> both negative and positive (please let us know and I'll update the
> document), I think it puts in perspective the ratio of positive
> vs. negative changes to the game we've made. I also feel it heartily
> invalidates the assertion that we are out to make the game harder or
> to have players advance slower overall, or that 'all we do is nerf'.
The complaint never made sense. If you wanted to slow down leveling,
you could just slowly decrease the experience gain for every 10+ MOB.
At a minimum, it would be less obvious. And most of us would never be
able to figure it out.
> The following is broken down by class, and then addresses
> those changes made that affect the whole game. Changes we feel
> are positive from just about any perspective are denoted with a '+',
> and those some players might consider a 'nerf', but that we felt
> were important for the long term health of the game, are denoted
> with a '-'.
> (again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-';
> please feel free to comment and add items).
Uhhhh....sure.
[lots of stuff snipped]
> PALADINS:
Does Lay on Hands really fizzle now? And I thought LoH has been
ner...errr...changed in other ways.
> SHADOWKNIGHTS:
> MONKS:
> NECROS:
> +/- Feign Death Changes – Better for Low Level Character, Better
> for High Level once learning curve has passed
We must all still be on the learning curve. No positives to the changes
noted so far by anyone who was actually using the ability.
> + Lots of New Spells (c.f. Screaming Terror, Pact of Shadow,
> Vampiric Curse, Bond of Death, Summon Corpse, etc.)
You mean summon corpse is REAL? Holy ^&*@! I thought it was just
wishful thinking!
And is it true the stun effect is going to be taken out of the latest
incarnation of Screaming Terror? >:-(
> Magicians
Now that summoned items aren't bankable, could you please lower the
level of most summon weapon spells. Except for summon dagger, they are
all pretty much useless by the time you actually get them.
Notice how rarely summoned weapons are used by anyone other than a
necromancer or enchanter pet?
>
> BARDS:
Didn't Bards discover that Selo's was less powerful? I thought it no
longer cancels root.
> ALL MELEE:
> + Purchasable Potions added, giving more versatility to melee
> classes and adding a money sink to the game to help the economy
Ummmmm......is it actually working?
> ALL CASTERS:
> + Made it such that you can see meditating (levels 35+)
Thank you, Thank you, thank you! But why do we have to wait until 35th
level? When I go back and play my lower level spellcasters now, the
spellbook is painful. Is that intentional? Are you trying to force me
to play my main character? :-)
> + Populated Plane of Fear
> + Populated Plane of Hate
> + Populated Kedge Keep
> + Populated and added Temple of Solusek Ro
When will we actually see Paineel and the Hole? I thought you said
November. And where is the Air Plane? And why wasn't Kunark included
back in the Spring, along with the other promised continent? :-)
> + Added second boat between Freeport and Butcherblock
/em twitch
Boat!
/panic
I have a screenshot of an honest to goodness shipwreck in Butcherblock
I'll send you if you like. Ever since that "incident" I've payed top pp
for teleports.
> - Upgraded NPC AI such that if an NPC is stuck it can teleport
> around obstacle
In principle, I don't mind this. Its a GOOD thing from my point of
view. A lot of people assume that because their brains have an easy
time doing it, it must be easy to code. But pathing is a hard problem.
BUT, why is stuff that can't see us still starting fights with us
through walls now that you've put this in? If a MOB can't see us, and
we don't (or can't) attack it, it really shouldn't be attacking us
through walls and ceilings.
> + Added /friends list
Arbitrarily capped at 20. It's too short. I really need double that.
Some friends of mine could use MUCH larger lists. Would letting people
put 100 names on the list really hurt?
> + Increased frequency and complexity of dynamic quests and events
Ummmmm.....you might not want to brag about increasing their frequency.
> + Added ability to rearrange spells in spellbook
Kudos. Makes life much easier.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
pur...@netscape.net
what you put on, it appears that you might be a bit removed from the
actual changes that have been made. As I am most familar with changes
made to druids, I will not comment on the ommisions / errors I saw for
other classes. Also, it appears that you seem to consider fixing bugs
as enhancements. Even in your patch messages, you list them as
enhancements. Please list them as what they are, bug fixes - making
things as they should have been to begin with. Also, how is populating
zones and adding the planes promised on the box considered an
enhancement? That is simply giving us what we are paying for.
In article <384CB193...@verant.com>,
Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote:
> Cynic wrote:
>
> > In article <3848DDE1...@verant.com>, Brad McQuaid
> > <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote:
> I and the rest of the 'nerfing team' put the following document
together listing
> both enhancements and 'nerfs' we've made to the game since launch.
And while we
> probably forgot some things, both negative and positive (please let
us know and
> I'll update the document), I think it puts in perspective the ratio
of positive
> vs. negative changes to the game we've made. I also feel it heartily
> invalidates the assertion that we are out to make the game harder or
to have
> players advance slower overall, or that 'all we do is nerf'.
> DRUIDS:
> + Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
Druid tracking does not work as far as you can see. Only an advantage
for druids on rainy days. Oh, it's always raining in EQ, even in the
desert, so I guess this does help druids.
> + Increased druid's tracking ability
Has not been done since I started playing. Druid tracking has a skill
cap of 20. Is this a future enhancement you accidentally slipped in?
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
You added two druid quests for two worthless weapons that require the
turning in of highly desired rare items off very rare mobs. Not a
single piece of armor like every other class got.
> + Added more Class Specific Items
Have yet to see many druid specific items. Yes, there is the BCP and a
couple of halfling only items. For the most part, everything a high
level druid can use is also usable and camped for by other classes.
Not to mention there is nothing to make druids both look different than
a newbie and give decent stats.
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
This was amongst the best enhancements that all casting classes got.
> + Enhanced Pet/Charmed Animal Pathing
Not enhanced, fixed.
> + Enhanced Some Druid Anti-Movement Spells (c.f. Ensnare,
> Grasping Roots, etc.)
Don't know a single druid that uses ensnare. Despite the shorter
casting time, it is a worthless spell compared to snare. Still believe
that ensnare should be the level 1 spell and snare should be the level
29 spell. It is all about reliable spell duration.
> + Lowered the Casting Level of Some Druid Teleport Spells
When did this happen? The only one I remember was that on one server
one teleport spell was incorrectly listed as needing a higher level
than it was suppossed to and was on all the other servers. This would
have been a bug fix, not an enhancement.
Things you missed:
1) Doubled the mana usage of succor spells from 150 to 300
2) Made it so you can not recast levitate without first losing
levitate. There should have been a more logical fix to an exploit,
such as just reseting the spell duration with no z axis boost when
recast.
jac...@my-deja.com
ALL:
- Placed 2 hour limit on XP RESS. While I applaud the goal, this
should not have applied to GM RESS's. A 4 to 8 hour limit for player's
would have been better IMHO.
Crestus
John Vukusic
Anyhow, my suggestions on some new *game improvements* that are VERY simple to do:
1. Charmed Mob namecolor change. There are plenty of classes who charm mobs and they
would all love this, and all classes would benefit. You added Brackets to the names
of the See Invisible invis charachters, why not do something similar to Charmed
mobs? how about just flashing the name or color cycling it? Is there any good reason
why not to do this? seems easy enough.
2. MORE individual item graphics. Druids and monks have it worst here, as all of
them look the same for almost 50 levels. Plus more race-specific items please. These
would help drive camping down, while at the same time add variety to the game. Keep
in mind weve spent MONTHS of real life time developing these alter egos, so yea...
we really do care what they look like. : ) Clerics too, er... arent they supposed to
wear platemail?
3. Buff spells castable from the book at twice the delay. This would help the druid,
shaman, clerics a lot, but shaman mostly, who have an insane amount of buffs and
only 8 slots to choose from. This could be implemented by allowing us to Hotkey our
buffs from the book into a 6 slot area. Despite the happiness this would cause, it
wouldnt be used as often as you might think, and we would all have big smiles on our
face with this addition.
4. Viability of Rogues, and Shadowknights. Its fine that shadowknights are a
difficult class to play, but while necros are high difficulty also, they benefit
from this by becoming extremely powerful at high levels. Is there really any true
gold at the end of the rainbow for shadowknights? not really, not yet (specially
compared to paladins). Give them another Unholy sword for lvl 45+ please. Throw them
a bone! Also, rogues are only now starting to make a reappearance as SUPERTWINKS
because there are so few of them to begin with because there are so few benefits to
any of their skills. (pick locks? hahaha. poison? ha! disarm traps? rofl! )
5. Hidden effects. This one is interesting.... bear with me. I think it would be
cool if there were some items with hidden benefits. Like lets say a Claymore of the
Elements. 24 dam 48 del. But after use, you discover that when used against
Elementals it did 50% more damage. just an example... Would at least add the element
of surprise and discovery to a game where we tend to know all the camps, stats,
items, spawn rates, etc. etc.
Cynic
<bmcq...@verant.com> wrote:
> > Indeed, given the level of malice you and the rest of the
> > nerfing team have shown for the players over the last several
> > patches at least, I find it hard to believe that this spell will
> > survive for long on the live servers in its current form--if it
> > makes it there at all.
> I and the rest of the 'nerfing team' put the following document
> together listing both enhancements and 'nerfs' we've made to the game
> since launch.
> And while we probably forgot some things, both negative and positive
> (please let us know and I'll update the document), I think it puts in
> perspective the ratio of positive vs. negative changes to the game
> we've made. I also feel it heartily invalidates the assertion that
> we are out to make the game harder or to have players advance slower
> overall, or that 'all we do is nerf'.
> The following is broken down by class, and then addresses those
> changes made that affect the whole game. Changes we feel are
> positive from just about any perspective are denoted with a '+', and
> those some players might consider a 'nerf', but that we felt were
> important for the long term health of the game, are denoted with a
> '-'.
> (again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-';
> please feel free to comment and add items).
(Oh so VERY impressive list snipped)
What an interesting and impressive list. Unfortunately, it becomes
much less so when you add some actual WEIGHT to the value that each '+'
and each '-' either added or subtracted from a particular class. You
see, you can add fifteen nice but relatively irrelevant boosts to, say,
monks, but when you wreck the class by nerfing feign death (and given
the volume of negative reaction to that particular nerf, the fact that
you even suggest that this might be anything other than a HUGE '-'
really goes to show how out of touch you and the rest of the NERFING
TEAM are with the players and the game itself), the one class-wrecking
nerf can and does cancel out the boosts. You can give necros and
enchanters some nice keen new spells tweaks, and quests that result in
them getting a whole iron ration for those ten killer shark testicles,
but when you take steps to degrade or destroy the bread and butter of
those two classes (as you did by nerfing DoTs and pets, and removing
fear and charm from PvP combat on the PvP servers altogether), those
keen new spells and tweaks start to look pretty sad in comparison.
And more to the point, the circumstances under which the latest nerfs
were introduced serves to illustrate the utter lack of respect, and
yes, outright malice, you have for the players. You don't even bother
to tell monks that a critical skill has been nigh destroyed at higher
levels. You don't bother to tell people that when their levitate
starts to peter when they're moving from platform to platform in
Kelethin, they won't be able to recast until they're three seconds away
from being a stain on the forest floor, oh and the spell takes one
second longer than that to cast, we're so sorry. You don't bother to
tell necromancers that resists now exist for the Lifetap line (GZ wrote
someone an amusing letter about this once, claiming he wasn't around
when this happened). You don't bother to tell people that they risk
having an army of stuck wolly mammoths teleport on top of them because
some fool got them stuck and then ran far enough away that they aggro'd
on the legit hunter.
And in addition to the methods used in introducing them, every single
nerf that has been introduced in the last three patches at least has
been to fix something that could have been fixed without a nerf, but
would have required more code. You didn't have to nerf levitate the
way you did to prevent people from moving further up with each
consecutive cast. You didn't have to completely remove fear and charm
from PvP combat to stop people from charming people and sending them
into a den of monsters. You didn't have to nerf feign death to keep
people from exploiting fire giant pathing errors and then getting
guides to kill them. You didn't have to introduce a bandaid
teleporting monster fix to keep people from getting mobs stuck and
casting on them with impunity. You didn't have to nerf pets. You
didn't have to do a lot of other things you've done, and there are only
two reasons to explain why you are doing it this way, and with
increasing frequency. One is laziness on the part of you and your
programmers, and the other is simple malice towards us. It's so much
easier to nerf high level pets that make melees look like the jokes
that they are than it is to beef up the melee classes (and no, critical
hits and keen armour does not come close to the beefing up that melee
classes need). It's so much easier, after all, to simply add a few
lines not allowing you to renew Levitate than it is to have it do a
check to see if you're already levitating, and if so only renew the
spell and not lift you higher. It's so much easier to have a mob
teleport on top of someone than it is to fix the pathing screwups that
cause them to get caught in the first place. And hey, won't those
asshole players be surprised, since we didn't announce it?
So, no, your list doesn't put anything into perspective. Because it
doesn't take into account the relative impact each of these changes had
on the appropriate class, nor does it take into account the
circumstances under which the changes were introduced. You've said
nothing new here, and while I'm sure your list will be reposted on EQ
Vault and Stratics (as every word you type seems to be) and will be
lauded by simpletons far and wide as proof that their asskissing has
been vindicated, it's not particularly impressive. You've presented
little to invalidate most of the assertions you claim this list
invalidates, except for the 'all we do is nerf' strawman that I've
never seen any serious detractor forward.
--
Cynic, who points out that the nerfing of Shaman DDs was left out of
the list, btw, along with a load of other minor nerfs. And that when
we ask for more communication, we don't mean more spin-doctoring. For
a hint, read the latest AC patch message.
Sam Schlansky
<384CB193...@verant.com>:
>I and the rest of the 'nerfing team' put the following document
>together listing both enhancements and 'nerfs' we've made to the
>game since launch. And while we probably forgot some things, both
>negative and positive (please let us know and I'll update the
>document),
Will do.
>I think it puts in perspective the ratio of positive
>vs. negative changes to the game we've made. I also feel it
>heartily invalidates the assertion that we are out to make the
>game harder or to have players advance slower overall, or that
>'all we do is nerf'.
I don't think you're out to have players advance slower overall. In
the end, that would hurt you as people would just get frustrated and
quit.
However, I do think that some changes were made without a great deal
of consideration as to their effects on the balance versus other
classes. Note that I say "versus other classes"-- in many cases the
nerfs DO make a given class more balanced against monsters.
>The following is broken down by class, and then addresses those
>changes made that affect the whole game. Changes we feel are
>positive from just about any perspective are denoted with a '+',
>and those some players might consider a 'nerf', but that we felt
>were important for the long term health of the game, are denoted
>with a '-'.
>
>(again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-';
>please feel free to comment and add items).
In many cases a simple '+' or '-' doesn't really work. Some
enhancements are nicer than others, and vice-versa for nerfs. For
these I'll use a series of plus or minus signs.
I'm just giving this a quick once-over and posting what comes in my
head... there's lots of stuff missing here on both sides.
>WIZARDS:
> + Added additional means by which to obtain Ice Comet
+++ : This spell was impossible to obtain before the quest was added.
Major, major enhancement.
> + Made Researching much easier
> + Added more high level spells
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+++++ : This is ever so nice.
> + Enhanced AoE Spells to let Wizard effect more creatures
-- : AE spells are bad. Giving them a bigger field of effect is
(usually) a bad thing.
> + Added Plane Travel Spells
-- : Spells, plural? I assume you're talking about Sky... but
regardless, which this might be an enhancement for wizards it's a
nerf for the rest of the game. It's rather difficult to get a wizard
to risk his life when no decent wizard items can be found in Hate.
And yes, it does aid interdependece between classes by doing this,
but it's annoying as hell.
> + Enhanced Specific Wizard Stun Spells
++++ These are great.
> + Added AoE slow monster spell (c.f. Bonds of Force)
Overall, wizards are looking pretty good.
> RANGERS:
> + Introduction of better average armor that is easier than most
> to get
+++ : Compared to every class but warriors, ranger-specific armor is
generally better and easier to get, with notable exceptions for the
boots and leggings. These are ridiculously difficult.
> + Critical Bow hits
Who uses a bow? Sure, it's nice that warriors aren't BETTER than
rangers with the bow, but... who really cares?
> + Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
++ : Again, another enhancement to one class that seriously screws
over another. I did all of the shaman armor quests with my ranger in
a day or two-- for a shaman that would not be possible, especially
with such rare spawns in such large zones. Also again, it aids
interdependence between classes, but it's annoying as hell.
> + Made Ebony Blade group friendly
I would say "made ebony blade MORE group friendly". It's no longer
the kiss of death to use an ebony blade in group combat, but it's
still dangerous.
> + More variety of items obtained via the Forage skill
... and?
> + Increased defensive skill caps (parry, dodge)
++++ Which were unnaturally low due to a bug. Still, this was a good
one.
> + Added innate resistance to fire and cold
Yes, plus four to each. Who cares?
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
++ The trueshot/raincaller quests are great, if a bit high-level. The
short sword of morin quest was great before kithicor was opened to
Hate, but is fairly deadly now. And finally, the class-specific
armor, with results noted above.
> + Added more Class Specific Items
Such as? Does this refer to the quested items above?
> + Added additional Ranger Spells
The only spell added was dance of the fireflies, a useless skill-
raising spell. Unless of course you're speaking of Call of Flame,
which isn't in the game yet.
> + Changed Some Spell Casting Skills to allow easier Skilling
> (c.f. Dance of the Fireflies)
Right.
> DRUIDS:
> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
----- : This made DoT's a *lot* less efficient... and yet I think
it's one of the best nerfs ever done to everquest. Nevertheless it
deserves five little minus signs since it seriously damaged the
class' ability to solo effectively.
> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
> + Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
Druids' limited tracking skill is of very little use in finding
outdoor spawns.
> + Increased druid's tracking ability
Really? OK, forget what I just said.
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
The solvedi scimitar and the sap sheen staff are hardly something to
count as an enhancement. They're on the same level as the quest where
you're supposed to hand in your testament of vandear.
"Sure, give us two REALLY good items and we'll give you back one
mediocre one."
This is almost a minus.
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
+++++ : Same reasons as above.
> + Enhanced Pet/Charmed Animal Pathing
I'll be damned if I can notice any difference. Pets seem to be just
as stupid as they've always been.
> + Enhanced Some Druid Anti-Movement Spells (c.f. Ensnare,
> Grasping Roots, etc.)
Is ensnare now worthwhile now? Why haven't druids spoken up?
> + Lowered the Casting Level of Some Druid Teleport Spells
Spells were moved around by level? When was this?
> PALADINS:
> + Added Archery
+++++ : Used purely as pulling and low level, but still insanely
useful.
> + Added innate resistance to disease
Who cares?
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Increased stats of Armor of Ro items
This was fixing something that was broken. You fail to say "Armor of
Ro sucked" as a minus here.
> SHADOWKNIGHTS:
> + Spell changes (added lifetap)
Yeah, that's only one plus. Lifetap was added at a far greater mana
cost.
> + Made Harm Touch less resistible
You forget to add in where you had made it resistable in the first
place.
> + Added innate resistance to poison and disease
Who cares?
> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> +/- Feign Death Changes – Better for Low Level Character, Better
> for High Level once learning curve has passed
For shadowknights this is true.
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Changes to Pet Appearances
>
> CLERICS:
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
Including the armor, which sucks, and the shield, which sucks.
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> - Resurrect Changes (Players come back sick)
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Reduced the Casting Time of Some Spells (c.f. Word of
> Healing/Health, Ward Series)
>
> MONKS:
> +/- Feign Death Changes – Better for Low Level Character, Better
> for High Level once learning curve has passed
----- For monks this is NOT true. While it *is* easier to use feign
death to avoid death with the new changes, it is most expressly NOT
easier to feign-death pull, which was the main reason that monks were
allowed in groups at high levels. Now, they're just experience
leeches.
> + New tailoring armor
... which is identical to mesh in every way, but looks cooler.
> + Added items that boost stats, etc.
----- The monk items added are laughable. No monks use them, period.
> + Added innate resistance to fire
So?
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
----- Again, the items suck, and the quests to get them are insanely
difficult for an item which a level 20 monk would not be caught dead
using.
> NECROS:
> - LifeTap/Dots changed
> + Some Lifetap Spells Made more mana efficient
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> + DOTs made more efficient
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Necromancer Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
> + Added Special Items to let Necromancers Summon Stronger Pets
Really? What?
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
Shouldn't the bug be added here as a minus to balance this out?
> + Lots of New Spells (c.f. Screaming Terror, Pact of Shadow,
> Vampiric Curse, Bond of Death, Summon Corpse, etc.)
Shouldn't screaming terror be documented as being first very useful,
then useless, then a train starter, and now a mesmerization spell?
Then again, the new spells are ever so nice...
> + Enhanced Call of Bones Series
> + Enhanced Screaming Terror
> - Added a Recast Time to Pact of Shadow
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Added New Looks to Necromancer Pets
> - Removed Charm
> + Enhanced Pet Pathing
Has ANYBODY noticed their pets pathing better? Anybody?
> + Reduced the Casting Time of Some Necromancer Spells
> + Made Research Easier & Fixed Broken Research
> + Added Quests to let Necromancers Quest (instead of Research)
> their pets
The quest for the 49 pet requires that you go to the plane of Hate,
where you can just pick up the runes anyway. Why bother?
> + Enhanced Effectiveness of Some Spells (Shadow
> Vortex, Surge of Enfeeblement, Ignite Bones, Dead Man Floating,
> etc.)
>
> Magicians
> + New summon item spells
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> + Better mid+ level pets (they cast spells now)
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Magician Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
> + Enhanced Pet Pathing
> + Added Special Items to let Magicians Summon Stronger Pets
Such as? Does this refer to the "shovel of earth" and so on? If so,
it isn't on production servers yet.
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
- Added bug that let monsters attack you from far distances through
your pet.
> + Made Magician Research Easier – especially for their pets
> + Added Spell Effects to most Magician Summoned Items
... to compensate for the fact that they suck and nobody would ever
use them. However, the compensation is lacking-- the only time I've
ever seen anyone use a magician-summoned weapon is when we were
killing pets in Rathe Mountains. The sword of runes' proc of ward
summoned was quite nice there.
> + Enhanced AoE Spells to let Magicians effect more creatures
--- Trainstarter. Kiss of death.
> + Reduced Mana Cost of Damage Shields
> + Reduced Casting Time of Ward Series
Who cares? This is the ward SUMMONED series not the ward UNDEAD
series.
> + Made the Malise Series Stack Better
++++ : Beautiful.
> + Made the Burnout Series Better
>
> BARDS:
> + Added stat and other bonuses to instruments
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
> + Added Addition Effects to Some Bard Songs
> + Added New Bard Songs
> + Added Ability for Bards to Punch 'Magic Only' Creatures
> + Increased the Power of Some Bard Songs (c.f. Chant Series,
> Fifil’s, etc.)
>
> WARRIORS:
> + Added critical melee hits
> + Later increased chance of critical hits
> + More Hit Points
> + Innate Magical Resistance
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Added Berserking
>
> ROGUES:
> + Added Poison skill
Useless.
> + Thrown Weapon Critical Hits
Useless.
> + Minimum Backstab Damage Implemented
+++++ 'Nuff said.
> + Minimum Backstab Damage Later Upped
+++++ 'Nuff said.
> + Hide/Sneak Enhanced
+++++ 'Nuff said.
> + Added innate resistance to poison
Uh-huh. :)
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
Involving poison, I assume? I don't know of any others.
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Improvements to Poison Skill
... which is still worthless.
> ENCHANTERS:
> + Jewelry Trade
Plus for enchanters, minus for everybody else since enchanters corner
the market.
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Made Tishan stack better and removed recasting time
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Increased Durations of All Illusions
> + Made Research Easier
> - Made Illusion Wolf OD Only
> + Added Mana Enchant Spells to Allow Item Enchantment
> + Made Enchanter Pets Look Different
> + Enhanced Certain Spells (curse of the simple mind, etc.
- Nerfed Certain Spells (Whirl 'till you hurl, etc.)
> + Added More Effects to High Level Illusion Spells
> + Better Pet Pathing
>
> SHAMAN:
> + Added Shrink Spell
This would be a five plus, except I can't get in the Kelethin bank.
It needs work outdoors.
> - Took too long to recognize Alchemy bug
Yes, and the product still sucks, even if the skill itself works.
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
These two together, I assume, refer to the quested armor. I assume
that because there are no other added shaman-specific quests or items
added.
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Made Malise stack better and removed recasting time
+++++ Major, major, enhancement for high levels.
> + Better Pet Pathing
Keep on saying it, it don't make it so. :)
> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
> + DoT’s Made Stronger
Really? Scourge did 1600 damage before the DoT nerf, after it does
500. Also, all of the disease spells take two minutes to run to their
full effect, making them totally useless in groups and only good for
kiting.
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
> - Removed Charm Spell
----- Removed Charm Spell without giving us the promised replacement.
> + Increased the Duration of Buffs
>
> ALL MELEE:
> + Purchasable Potions added, giving more versatility to melee
> classes and adding a money sink to the game to help the economy
This is, indeed, worth one plus and one only. The only potion anyone
ever buys is invisibility.
----- Removed the rubicite breastplate.
> ALL CASTERS:
> - Removal of Manastone
> + Made it such that you can see meditating (levels 35+)
> + Implemented Specialization
>
> ALL:
> + HALVED experience loss death penalty
> - Removal of weightless box spawn
> + Purchasable weightless box added
... for 5000 plat, but still a plus, yes.
> - Introduction of Frenzy code (after level 19)
----- : This means that level 20 or above creatures will always
attack. I'd give this 10 lines of minus signs but that would look
kinda silly. Suffice it to say this this SUCKS.
> + New emotes and animations
> + New graphics for weapons
> + Populated Plane of Fear
... and made impossible and not worth the trouble. Only one plus.
> + Populated Plane of Hate
++ Nicely-done in general.
> + Populated Kedge Keep
+++ ... including numerous pathing bugs. But, still doable.
> + Populated and added Temple of Solusek Ro
> + Increased range for evac and teleport spells
> + Added second boat between Freeport and Butcherblock
No kidding?
I'll be damned, I never noticed. I guess by the time this was added I
was already getting teleported around!
+++++!!
> + Added class specific quests for many classes
> + Increased treasure and experience gain rewards for many older
> quests - Upgraded NPC AI such that if an NPC is stuck it can
> teleport around obstacle
> + Added /follow command
> + Added adjustable clipping plane
> + Added /yell command
> + Added /friends list
> + Increased frequency and complexity of dynamic quests and events
> + Added ability to rearrange spells in spellbook
> + Added additional chat filters
Sam
--
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Sam Schlansky
<1ca4f2e8...@usw-ex0102-014.remarq.com>:
>(Oh so VERY impressive list snipped)
>
>What an interesting and impressive list. Unfortunately, it
>becomes much less so when you add some actual WEIGHT to the value
>that each '+' and each '-' either added or subtracted from a
>particular class. You see, you can add fifteen nice but
>relatively irrelevant boosts to, say, monks, but when you wreck
>the class by nerfing feign death (and given the volume of negative
>reaction to that particular nerf, the fact that you even suggest
>that this might be anything other than a HUGE '-' really goes to
>show how out of touch you and the rest of the NERFING TEAM are
>with the players and the game itself), the one class-wrecking nerf
>can and does cancel out the boosts.
Very true. The monk class was effectively destroyed after level 35,
and all the rest of the enhancements cannot change that.
>You can give necros and
>enchanters some nice keen new spells tweaks, and quests that
>result in them getting a whole iron ration for those ten killer
>shark testicles, but when you take steps to degrade or destroy the
>bread and butter of those two classes (as you did by nerfing DoTs
DoT's were only nerfs for kiting. I wholehearedly agree with this,
and I currently play a shaman. This was a very, very, good nerf.
>and pets,
Pets were SO overpowered that it made a total and complete mockery of
melee classes. Even in their current state, they eat them for
breakfast.
>and removing fear and charm from PvP combat on the PvP
>servers altogether),
Who gives a shit? Everquest is clearly not a PvP game. If you play on
a PvP server, your loss.
(snip)
>And more to the point, the circumstances under which the latest
>nerfs were introduced serves to illustrate the utter lack of
>respect, and yes, outright malice, you have for the players. You
>don't even bother to tell monks that a critical skill has been
>nigh destroyed at higher levels. You don't bother to tell people
>that when their levitate starts to peter when they're moving from
>platform to platform in Kelethin, they won't be able to recast
>until they're three seconds away from being a stain on the forest
>floor, oh and the spell takes one second longer than that to cast,
>we're so sorry. You don't bother to tell necromancers that
>resists now exist for the Lifetap line (GZ wrote someone an
>amusing letter about this once, claiming he wasn't around when
>this happened). You don't bother to tell people that they risk
>having an army of stuck wolly mammoths teleport on top of them
>because some fool got them stuck and then ran far enough away that
>they aggro'd on the legit hunter.
I've gone into this thing over and over.
It isn't malice. It's just that they never assigned that job to
anybody. Nobody had in their job description "community relations".
NOBODY.
Now somebody does, and the hope is that as of now that kind of
bullshit will stop, and stop COLD.
>And in addition to the methods used in introducing them, every
>single nerf that has been introduced in the last three patches at
>least has been to fix something that could have been fixed without
>a nerf, but would have required more code. You didn't have to
>nerf levitate the way you did to prevent people from moving
>further up with each consecutive cast.
Agreed! This should have been fixed correctly!
>You didn't have to
>completely remove fear and charm from PvP combat to stop people
>from charming people and sending them into a den of monsters.
You don't think so? What would your solution be... if you're charmed
and killed by a monster, you don't lose experience?
Well hell, in normal group play charm a groupmember and send 'em on a
kamikaze run!
Do you have a better idea? Fear and charm were too abusable.
>You
>didn't have to nerf feign death to keep people from exploiting
>fire giant pathing errors and then getting guides to kill them.
As I understand it, the big kicker with fd-pulls was when a monk
managed to pull innoruuk to the entrance room to hate through a
medium spawn. They thought that was just TOO much and took action.
Of course what they failed to acknowledge was that was a VERY
talented monk-- and there aren't many out there with his skill in fd-
pulling. Shouldn't he be rewarded for developing such skill?
>You didn't have to introduce a bandaid teleporting monster fix to
>keep people from getting mobs stuck and casting on them with
>impunity.
They should have fixed the AI, of course. But we don't know the
technical issues there-- personally I feel that it would take too
much CPU time to give monsters "real" (as opposed to primative node-
based) AI.
>You didn't have to nerf pets.
They damn well did!
>You didn't have to do a
>lot of other things you've done, and there are only two reasons to
>explain why you are doing it this way, and with increasing
>frequency. One is laziness on the part of you and your
>programmers,
This I kinda agree with. Many of these changes should have been
implemented through fixing the code and not kludgy nerfs.
>and the other is simple malice towards us.
Please.
>It's so
>much easier to nerf high level pets that make melees look like the
>jokes that they are than it is to beef up the melee classes (and
>no, critical hits and keen armour does not come close to the
>beefing up that melee classes need).
I've gone over this, too-- I don't think melee classes CAN be fixed.
At least the pet nerf brought them into the same ballpark.
>It's so much easier, after
>all, to simply add a few lines not allowing you to renew Levitate
>than it is to have it do a check to see if you're already
>levitating, and if so only renew the spell and not lift you
>higher. It's so much easier to have a mob teleport on top of
>someone than it is to fix the pathing screwups that cause them to
>get caught in the first place.
Exactly right.
>And hey, won't those asshole
>players be surprised, since we didn't announce it?
But you see-- from now on, they will.
>So, no, your list doesn't put anything into perspective. Because
>it doesn't take into account the relative impact each of these
>changes had on the appropriate class, nor does it take into
>account the circumstances under which the changes were introduced.
I agree with almost everything you say here, except for where you
attribute malice to them. I don't see malice here, I see a hell of a
lot of work and not enough manpower to do it.
So, you cut corners.
Is that acceptable? Well, no.
Is that understandable? Yep.
>You've said nothing new here, and while I'm sure your list will
>be reposted on EQ Vault and Stratics (as every word you type seems
>to be) and will be lauded by simpletons far and wide as proof that
>their asskissing has been vindicated, it's not particularly
>impressive. You've presented little to invalidate most of the
>assertions you claim this list invalidates, except for the 'all we
>do is nerf' strawman that I've never seen any serious detractor
>forward.
Agreed, and well said. The list proves nothing. Enhancements are
expected-- they could hardly just leave the game alone. Some of
the more exceptional nerfs are certainly not.
>Cynic, who points out that the nerfing of Shaman DDs was left out
>of the list, btw,
Hmmm......? Don't you mean DoT's?
>along with a load of other minor nerfs. And
>that when we ask for more communication, we don't mean more spin
>-doctoring. For a hint, read the latest AC patch message.
At least they're trying. He DID, after all, ask for our input to the
list.
jkprice
> > DRUIDS:
> > - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
>
> ----- : This made DoT's a *lot* less efficient... and yet I think
> it's one of the best nerfs ever done to everquest. Nevertheless it
> deserves five little minus signs since it seriously damaged the
> class' ability to solo effectively.
>
Actually, at high levels, or in groups, when people quit kiting, they made
the dots a lot MORE effecient. They only do less damage if the mob is
chasing you. If it is standing still or running, they do MORE damage now
than they used to.
> Is ensnare now worthwhile now? Why haven't druids spoken up?
There are two different type of root spells in the druid and wizards
arsenal. One is for rooting a creature at a distance so you can back off
and deal with them one at a time (a poor man's mesmerize spell.) These last
longer if and only if the target is not taking damage. (not including the
initial damage from a druid's root spell.)
The other type is for holding it in place while you bash on it.
> > +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character, Better
> > for High Level once learning curve has passed
>
> For shadowknights this is true.
>
> > + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> > + Changes to Pet Appearances
> >
> > CLERICS:
> > + Added more Class Specific Quests
> > + Added more Class Specific Items
>
> Including the armor, which sucks, and the shield, which sucks.
>
> > + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> > - Resurrect Changes (Players come back sick)
> > + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> > + Reduced the Casting Time of Some Spells (c.f. Word of
> > Healing/Health, Ward Series)
> >
> > MONKS:
> > +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character, Better
> > + Made Magician Research Easier - especially for their pets
jkprice
> > MONKS:
> > +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character, Better
> > for High Level once learning curve has passed
>
> ----- For monks this is NOT true. While it *is* easier to use feign
> death to avoid death with the new changes, it is most expressly NOT
> easier to feign-death pull, which was the main reason that monks were
> allowed in groups at high levels. Now, they're just experience
> leeches.
You may be correct on this about the pulling issue. And you are the first
person to accurately describe the changes, but you are wrong about the value
of monks. Monk dish out more damage than warriors or rogues at the same
level, they TAKE less damage even under major attack, and they are low
maintanance for the party healers. Monks were always a bad choice for
pulling in any area with casters...DD casters eat monks for lunch, but in
pure melee, a monk is superior to a warrior, and therefore there is no
negative to having a monk in your party. Having played a monk since day
one, I can say with both a monk and a warrior in the same party, the warrior
was almost always doing the pulling, but the monk was the lead tank once
battle started. Since it is easier to use feign to avoid death now, which
was the sole purpose of the skill, it is not that much of a negative.
> ----- The monk items added are laughable. No monks use them, period.
>
It could be because we haven't seen them. Apparently there are new tailored
silk monk armors (beyond cured silk) that add decent attribute bonuses.
However, try to find someone that knows how to make them...
Sam Schlansky
<sx834.2829$_b3....@news20.bellglobal.com>:
>> > DRUIDS:
>> > - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
>>
>> ----- : This made DoT's a *lot* less efficient... and yet I
>> think it's one of the best nerfs ever done to everquest.
>> Nevertheless it deserves five little minus signs since it
>> seriously damaged the class' ability to solo effectively.
>
>Actually, at high levels, or in groups, when people quit kiting,
>they made the dots a lot MORE effecient. They only do less
>damage if the mob is chasing you. If it is standing still or
>running, they do MORE damage now than they used to.
Right, I should have said "This made kiting a *lot less efficient...". Sorry,
typo.
>> Is ensnare now worthwhile now? Why haven't druids spoken up?
>
>There are two different type of root spells in the druid and
>wizards arsenal. One is for rooting a creature at a distance so
>you can back off and deal with them one at a time (a poor man's
>mesmerize spell.) These last longer if and only if the target is
>not taking damage. (not including the initial damage from a
>druid's root spell.)
>
>The other type is for holding it in place while you bash on it.
(snip about 50K of quoted text)
No shit. Ensnare is neither; it's the upgrade to "snare" the spell everybody
knows and loves that SLOWS a monster's movement rate.
Sam Schlansky
<VD834.3021$403....@news21.bellglobal.com>:
>> > MONKS:
>> > +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character,
>> > Better for High Level once learning curve has passed
>>
>> ----- For monks this is NOT true. While it *is* easier to use
>> feign death to avoid death with the new changes, it is most
>> expressly NOT easier to feign-death pull, which was the main
>> reason that monks were allowed in groups at high levels. Now,
>> they're just experience leeches.
>
>You may be correct on this about the pulling issue. And you are
>the first person to accurately describe the changes, but you are
>wrong about the value of monks. Monk dish out more damage than
>warriors or rogues at the same level,
Warriors are debatable. Rogues deal more damage than monks in groups.
>they TAKE less damage even under major attack,
You're joking, right?
>and they are low maintanance for the party healers.
Why, because they have less HP to heal?
>Monks were always a bad choice for pulling in any area
>with casters...DD casters eat monks for lunch,
Very true.
>but in pure melee, a monk is superior to a warrior,
How so? They do less or comparable damage to a warrior, and they can
absorb much less. So, why get a monk?
>and therefore there is no negative to having a monk in your party.
Besides the fact that they suck?
>Having played a monk
>since day one, I can say with both a monk and a warrior in the
>same party, the warrior was almost always doing the pulling, but
>the monk was the lead tank once battle started.
What level is your monk? I've never seen you post before.
>Since it is
>easier to use feign to avoid death now, which was the sole purpose
>of the skill, it is not that much of a negative.
You're insane.
>> ----- The monk items added are laughable. No monks use them,
>> period.
>
>It could be because we haven't seen them. Apparently there are
>new tailored silk monk armors (beyond cured silk) that add decent
>attribute bonuses. However, try to find someone that knows how to
>make them...
Really? How do you know?
I thought he was talking about the collar of neshika (kithicor quest)
and the robe of the lost circle, both of which suck salty donkey
nuts.
DedTV
> - Upgraded NPC AI such that if an NPC is stuck it can teleport
> around obstacle
Well I still see NPCs and mobs that spend an hour walking into a wall.
And of course the infamous NPC on the roof for an hour bug.
And how about the NPCs who tend to show up at a zone border and just
stand there with their standard "I don't have time for that now" speech?
One of the merchants in Quenos stayed like that for 5 real time days
until a high level group killed him.
And lastly. I reported this a dozen times. Baobob Miller still says
something like "Cannot find MilAtt.txt" when he is assaulted. That must
truly send chills down the spine of all who oppose him.
Oh. And when does the Monsoon season end in Norrath? It's really weird
that it rains 10 out of 14 days in the desert.
Vinil Firelord
>
>>WIZARDS:
>> + Added additional means by which to obtain Ice Comet
And was always nice to take 4 full groups to kill the beast for 1
rune. Ok this is a great for wizards. Yeah Team!
>> + Made Researching much easier
Umm you mean you fixed your bugs?
>> + Added more high level spells
Gave us a lvl 39 Enchanter spell for lvl 49? Gave us a Fire based DD
spell becuase our lvl 44 magic based one made the class completley
unplayable, bugged?
>> + Added more Class Specific Quests
General enchancement, all classes wide
>> + Added more Class Specific Items
General enchancement, all classes wide Doh!
>> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
General enchancement, all classes wide
>
>
>> + Enhanced AoE Spells to let Wizard effect more creatures
LOL Rain spells still broken poorly limited, an attempt was made to
fix but very unsucceful, other spells like AoE Thunder clap, etc...
>
>> + Added Plane Travel Spells
Umm no, added one single plane travel spell that was part of original
game, Hate, changed them to lvl 46 vs 44 this is a NEGATIVE, took fear
away? Brad the guy who put a plus here, smack him for me. So really
you opened the zones we baught that were listed on the box in March,
labeled it an enhancement for wizards?
>
>> + Enhanced Specific Wizard Stun Spells
Your crazy to think adding 2 more damage to a whopping 50 damage is a
plus. Casting times, LOL I have yet to see the use there. We cast on a
NPC wiz casting and no matter what, he casts his spells. Markers
clash, with the wizards resistances who has the damn mana to waste 200
on a stun?
>
>> + Added AoE slow monster spell (c.f. Bonds of Force)
Half as good as snare. Apparantly we did not qualify for the good
stuff? Well, ok lets call this a plus, but you get two negatives on
this too. First Roots are so broke, second bonds force is AoE to make
it less useful than snare, (makes it much harder to pull with than
snare) and either gets broke fast or NPCs just resist it.
>Overall, wizards are looking pretty good.
Can i have a toke on that too Brad? This follows the lines of Alchemy
works well, we have tested it.
I really like the way you slipped enchanters in at the end of a very
long post. This enchanter list is for the last 2 or 3 patches, where
is the complete one?? Jeez the patch in april had more publicly posted
than this, and of course all the "non informed changes."
>
>> ENCHANTERS:
>> + Jewelry Trade
>
>
>> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
but also enhances them
>> + Added more Class Specific Quests
all classes
>> + Added more Class Specific Items
all classes
>> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
all classes
>> + Made Tishan stack better and removed recasting time
>> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
>> through your pet
Only after pets gotr root, friggin wizards were getting smacked for
months LOL
>> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
wow nice for them
>> + Increased Durations of All Illusions
added msg that works 5 times better than "starting to appear" msg for
everyone else. Where is the complete damn LIST!!
>> + Made Research Easier
bug fiz, all
>> - Made Illusion Wolf OD Only
Was shocked to hear what this spell could do.
>> + Added Mana Enchant Spells to Allow Item Enchantment
another trade ruled by the enchanter
>> + Made Enchanter Pets Look Different
Oh hey, /smile
>> + Enhanced Certain Spells (curse of the simple mind, etc.
Like the slip of etc. in there,
>- Nerfed Certain Spells (Whirl 'till you hurl, etc.)
bug fix then nerf for correction
>> + Added More Effects to High Level Illusion Spells
hmmm
>> + Better Pet Pathing
Would love to see the complete list on enchanters,
>
How come when you get things fixed so they work, it's called implament
rather than fixed? Did we gain value for our money or just get what we
had paid for? Yes I am a wizard and a rather unhappy one. Your recent
Guard Beef has even made matters worse. Again, you "head of nerfs and
twinks, I am sure you will have a spin, or complete answer as to this
and that, but I can only assume other are becoming more and more
dissenchanted with your tactics.
Brad McQuaid
Vinil Firelord wrote:
> How come when you get things fixed so they work, it's called implament
> rather than fixed?
Simply because when we fix bugs that people didn't want us to fix, it's
often called a 'nerf'. If we're going to list those as 'nerf's we're
certainly going to list the fixes that made the game easier/better.
Rob Beckett
said:
>
>(again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-'; please feel free
>to comment and add items).
<SNIP some classes>
> CLERICS:
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
- Then put those items on 8 hour spawns and on
NPC's that are hunted by other classes.
> + Added more Class Specific Items
- Such as plate armor that has less AC than other classes chain
armor and does not add desireable stats for the most part.
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> - Resurrect Changes (Players come back sick)
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Reduced the Casting Time of Some Spells (c.f. Word of
> Healing/Health, Ward Series)
- HALVED experience loss death penalty.
Lowerd need for EXP rez.
- reduced damage of the level 44 DD spell. The only good one
the clerics had.
> ALL MELEE:
> + Purchasable Potions added, giving more versatility to melee
> classes and adding a money sink to the game to help the economy
>
> ALL CASTERS:
> - Removal of Manastone
> + Made it such that you can see meditating (levels 35+)
> + Implemented Specialization
- Purchasable Potions added, giving more versatility to melee
classes and adding a money sink to the game to help the economy
This is a minus for all casters. Makes their spells needed less.
>---------------------------------------------
>Brad McQuaid
>Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
>Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
>---------------------------------------------
>
>
Rob aka Auman Estanesse
"Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build bridges,
even where there are no rivers."
Nikita Khrushchev
Marc Fuller
Sam Schlansky wrote:
>
> jkp...@NOSPAMsympatico.ca (jkprice) wrote in
> <VD834.3021$403....@news21.bellglobal.com>:
>
> >> > MONKS:
> >> > +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character,
> >> > Better for High Level once learning curve has passed
> >>
> >> ----- For monks this is NOT true. While it *is* easier to use
> >> feign death to avoid death with the new changes, it is most
> >> expressly NOT easier to feign-death pull, which was the main
> >> reason that monks were allowed in groups at high levels. Now,
> >> they're just experience leeches.
> >
> >You may be correct on this about the pulling issue. And you are
> >the first person to accurately describe the changes, but you are
> >wrong about the value of monks. Monk dish out more damage than
> >warriors or rogues at the same level,
>
> Warriors are debatable. Rogues deal more damage than monks in groups.
>
> >they TAKE less damage even under major attack,
>
> You're joking, right?
>
> >and they are low maintanance for the party healers.
>
> Why, because they have less HP to heal?
>
I think he might be working on the assumption that Monks will use their Mend
skill to heal themselves. I suppose it might be OK after a battle, but
theoretically, so is a Magician with bandages. Personally, my Magician only
gets to use Bandages on solo melee classes while they sit in Lavastorm and
recover from a failed Najena attack. In groups, it's usually more effort than
it's worth to convince the party healer to let me bandage while they med, and
the melee classes usually don't have enough skill at Bind Wounds for it to be
worth waiting for them to bandage themselves.
> >Monks were always a bad choice for pulling in any area
> >with casters...DD casters eat monks for lunch,
>
> Very true.
>
> >but in pure melee, a monk is superior to a warrior,
>
> How so? They do less or comparable damage to a warrior, and they can
> absorb much less. So, why get a monk?
>
Because the Monk is the only one that doesn't whine about losing his corpse when
you get trained? No, scratch that, he probably had a Box of Abu-Kar or
something.
> >and therefore there is no negative to having a monk in your party.
>
> Besides the fact that they suck?
>
> >Having played a monk
> >since day one, I can say with both a monk and a warrior in the
> >same party, the warrior was almost always doing the pulling, but
> >the monk was the lead tank once battle started.
>
> What level is your monk? I've never seen you post before.
>
> >Since it is
> >easier to use feign to avoid death now, which was the sole purpose
> >of the skill, it is not that much of a negative.
>
> You're insane.
>
> >> ----- The monk items added are laughable. No monks use them,
> >> period.
> >
> >It could be because we haven't seen them. Apparently there are
> >new tailored silk monk armors (beyond cured silk) that add decent
> >attribute bonuses. However, try to find someone that knows how to
> >make them...
>
> Really? How do you know?
>
> I thought he was talking about the collar of neshika (kithicor quest)
> and the robe of the lost circle, both of which suck salty donkey
> nuts.
>
> Sam
>
Marc Fuller
(Who doesn't have a lot of experience at high levels, and has none as a Monk.)
Marc Fuller
>
> > > DRUIDS:
[snip]
>
> > Is ensnare now worthwhile now? Why haven't druids spoken up?
>
> There are two different type of root spells in the druid and wizards
> arsenal. One is for rooting a creature at a distance so you can back off
> and deal with them one at a time (a poor man's mesmerize spell.) These last
> longer if and only if the target is not taking damage. (not including the
> initial damage from a druid's root spell.)
>
> The other type is for holding it in place while you bash on it.
>
[snip]
Druids have three types of anti-movement spell then. They have a Root-with
damage line, a root with damage that lasts longer but supposedly gets a saving
throw bonus if you whack the mob, and they have the Snare/Ensnare spells, which
don't do any damage, but basicly throw a big whammy on a monster's movement
speed. It doesn't have much noticeable effect unless you are kiting, or the
monster is hurt badly enough to try to run. On a badly wounded fleeing monster,
Snare can actually stop them cold. Also, unlike Root, since the monster still
thinks it is escaping, it will just stand there and let you beat it to death.
(With Root, they turn around and fight back.) Druids work very well with Pet
classes outdoors, since a Pet with SOW can usually beat down a Snared runner
before it gets far enough to cause any trouble. At least, it seems to work well
at pre-level 20. I can't say what happens higher than that.
Marc Fuller
Jeff Hoppe
months.
Unfortunately, It will not keep some people quiet.
Overall, I agree it shows that you've done more to enhance than to detract.
On the Cleric thing, Didn't you lower the damage of the ward series back in
May? (Even before the word nerf was becoming widely known)
Not arguing, just I do know you reduced the damage. If memory serves my
dismiss went from 157 to 140. Nothing to slit my wrists over...
Jeff
Cadfael, EM
PS. When is the Xmas party? And are we invited?
Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
news:384CB193...@verant.com...
Paul Phillips
--
----------------------
"If you loved me..."
ICQ 27745391
http://wwp.icq.com/27745391
http://www.redirect.to/il128 It sucks. No really, it sucks.
Vinil Firelord
wrote:
>
>
>Vinil Firelord wrote:
>
>> How come when you get things fixed so they work, it's called implament
>> rather than fixed?
>
>Simply because when we fix bugs that people didn't want us to fix, it's
>often called a 'nerf'. If we're going to list those as 'nerf's we're
>certainly going to list the fixes that made the game easier/better.
>
>--
>
>---------------------------------------------
>Brad McQuaid
>Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
>Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
>---------------------------------------------
I aggree with you Brad on most things. The game has come light years
from the beginning. Jeez man the enhancement to the log in server was
so huge so many other things! I am a director of MIS for an LA firm, I
can understand your dileama with fix it today they forget tomorrow
syndrome. I just have issues with the "Wizard class is not broken
mentality." Take no offense from my vent/rants.
Dan Harmon
> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
> + Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
> + Increased druid's tracking ability
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Enhanced Pet/Charmed Animal Pathing
> + Enhanced Some Druid Anti-Movement Spells (c.f. Ensnare,
> Grasping Roots, etc.)
> + Lowered the Casting Level of Some Druid Teleport Spells
I'm aware of only 2 class-specific quests/items for druids (a couple of
average weapons not worth using at the level you need to be to get them).
I'm hardly a quest/item expert though.
I do have a negative to add:
- Removed the ability to move in Treeform
I don't really mind not having it, though it would have been nice. :) I'd
like it added to the list though.
Tim Hess
- Removed Reclaim Energy (How the hell do I get this out of my spell book?)
"Paul Phillips" <il...@technologist.com> wrote in message
news:384D48D9...@technologist.com...
> > +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character, Better
> > for High Level once learning curve has passed
> > + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> > + Changes to Pet Appearances
> >
> > CLERICS:
> > + Added more Class Specific Quests
> > + Added more Class Specific Items
> > + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> > - Resurrect Changes (Players come back sick)
> > + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> > + Reduced the Casting Time of Some Spells (c.f. Word of
> > Healing/Health, Ward Series)
> >
> > MONKS:
> > +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character, Better
> > + Made Magician Research Easier - especially for their pets
Joe
wrote:
>
>
>Vinil Firelord wrote:
>
>> How come when you get things fixed so they work, it's called implament
>> rather than fixed?
>
>Simply because when we fix bugs that people didn't want us to fix, it's
>often called a 'nerf'.
The problem is that it takes you guys so long to 'fix' some bugs that
people have become accustomed to them by the time you get around to
'fixing' them. People have been using Feign Death to pull MOBs for 8
months now. I'm sure you guys didn't intend it to be used in this
manner, but it obviously didn't bother you until people started using
it to kill dragons. When you 'fixed' this 'bug', you made the game
less fun for the classes that can use Feign Death and those that get
trampled by massive trains when a monk decides to stand up after
feigning. People call this 'bug fix' a 'nerf' because it is one -- the
two aren't always mutually exclusive.
Another thing that bothers people more than 'nerfing' is when you
don't announce exactly what you're changing. When you announced in a
previous patch that SKs get the Lifetap series of spells, you
conveniently forgot to mention that it costs them twice as much to
cast the spells. GZ mentioned it after everyone started complaining
about it, but nothing was said beforehand that I can remember. SOW was
also decreased in duration for a short time on the test server with no
explanation, be it a bug or a pre-'nerf' test. It's little things like
this that alienate your customers, not 'nerfing' itself.
>If we're going to list those as 'nerf's we're
>certainly going to list the fixes that made the game easier/better.
Did taking out rubicite and making clerics sit by a tree stump for
hours on end to get comparable armor make the game easier/better for
them? Go invisible with your ranger and drop a piece of foraged food
on that stump some day and watch as a hoard of clerics com rushing
towards the stump -- it's a pathetic sight. Did taking out the
rubicite breastplate really make the game better for tanks, who used
its regenerative qualities to decrease down time? The class-specific
replacement armor is great, but where is the item to replace the
regenerative effect of the breastplate? Why, if rubicite was taken out
to curb camping, does the rogue-specific armor spawn on the same MOBs
in Cazic Thule? A lot of the so-called positive changes you've made to
the game come with a price.
I like EverQuest quite a bit. Hell, if I didn't like it, I wouldn't
bother analyzing it like I have, and I wouldn't read the messageboards
and home pages and would have closed my account long ago. But it has
faults, like any other game. Being the producer of the game, it's
probably easier for you to pick out the good points. Being a paying
customer, I find it easier to pick out the points that negatively
affect me. It's only natural that you're going to butt heads with
people like me. As long as you don't dismiss us as the vocal minority
(some of your designers have come dangerously close to this) or
conspiracy theorists or 'whiners' or whatever and take what we say
seriously, EverQuest will continue to be a fine game. When you start
to ignore us (which I don't think you've done) is when EverQuest will
suffer.
Mike
> (again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-'; please
feel free
> to comment and add items).
> RANGERS:
> + Introduction of better average armor that is easier than most to get
> + Critical Bow hits
> + Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
> + Made Ebony Blade group friendly
> + More variety of items obtained via the Forage skill
> + Increased defensive skill caps (parry, dodge)
> + Added innate resistance to fire and cold
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Added additional Ranger Spells
> + Changed Some Spell Casting Skills to allow easier Skilling
> (c.f. Dance of the Fireflies)
On the archery, WHY have arrows not been made to where 99 can stack answer
me this PLEASE?? no one wants to carry 4 packs full of arrows just so they
can kill something that conned green to them 5 levels ago and is still agro
(giants for instance)
Range and above/below is still bugged to hell, i can't hit something
standing above me with an arrow when any caster can nail it with a spell.
my advice... this has been mentioned before... give rangers a spell that
summons an arrow, like paladins can a hammer, when said arrow is placed in
range slot, it uses 5 mana each pull of the bow. I can't see how that would
screw up too many people other than the fletchers. make the arrow just a 1
dam 50 range if you want, where fletched arrows are better still by far..
> WARRIORS:
> + Added critical melee hits
> + Later increased chance of critical hits
> + More Hit Points
> + Innate Magical Resistance
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Added Berserking
Warriors are still a joke for the supposedly "tanks" in the game, they get
owned against a level 49 spell-based pet, if you don't believe this, put a
level 50 warrior (no buffs) up against a level 49 summoned
magician/necro/shaman/enchanter pet and see what happens. the problem is
NOT with the pets, the problem is that warriors at level 50 have about 1000
less HP than they should, rangers, paladins, monks, sk are the same way,
only to a lesser degree.
All tank classes are a joke when it comes to damage they can inflict as
opposed to damage a NPC can inflict, lets see you give a DE CASTER in
mistmoore a dagger and they can hit you for 48 damage? thats reasonable....
sure.... the best damage weapon in the game 1 handed (besides the GB) is the
Runed Falchion, and at level 50 my ranger is doing 50 damage MAX a swing
with it. tell me how something thats been green to me since level 29 can
hit me as hard?
> ALL MELEE:
> + Purchasable Potions added, giving more versatility to melee
> classes and adding a money sink to the game to help the economy
Last time i checked potions are still insanely overpriced and since i don't
have a extra 2000 plat to blow on a gate potion i can't say for sure but
latest rumor was it was still busted.
> ALL:
> + HALVED experience loss death penalty
> - Removal of weightless box spawn
> + Purchasable weightless box added
> - Introduction of Frenzy code (after level 19)
> + New emotes and animations
> + New graphics for weapons
> + Populated Plane of Fear
> + Populated Plane of Hate
> + Populated Kedge Keep
> + Populated and added Temple of Solusek Ro
> + Increased range for evac and teleport spells
> + Added second boat between Freeport and Butcherblock
> + Added class specific quests for many classes
> + Increased treasure and experience gain rewards for many older quests
> - Upgraded NPC AI such that if an NPC is stuck it can teleport
> around obstacle
> + Added /follow command
> + Added adjustable clipping plane
> + Added /yell command
> + Added /friends list
> + Increased frequency and complexity of dynamic quests and events
> + Added ability to rearrange spells in spellbook
> + Added additional chat filters
Friends list is still too small, same with ignore list, The planes are still
a death trap (especially fear) even if you go inside with 40 people you run
the risk of getting annhiliated before you take 10 steps. Yeah i can see
making them hard and all but the only hope at the moment for planes is to
get in there BEFORE it spawns.
Dragons and summoning, this is the single most annoying thing, a npc can get
a whiff of you and decide hey i want him to be my playmate and summon you
halfway across the stinking zone, this makes for real fun corpse recovery
since it is usually followed by a disconnet and/or crash.
Yeah brad you have made alot of changed to the class but the simple fact is,
as long as you continue to get pissed whenever a plane, dragon etc is beaten
easily and make them mega hard in return you will keep upsetting players.
Asuna
ie .. Rain
Antheus
AnthonyBP
agree with.
>> WIZARDS:
> > + Enhanced AoE Spells to let Wizard effect more creatures
>
> -- : AE spells are bad. Giving them a bigger field of effect is
> (usually) a bad thing.
Unless you know how to use them, see below.
> > RANGERS:
> > + Critical Bow hits
>
> Who uses a bow? Sure, it's nice that warriors aren't BETTER than
> rangers with the bow, but... who really cares?
Funny, here you ask "who uses them anyway" and later you mentioned archery
favorably. I still manage to see many Rangers with bows.
> > DRUIDS:
> > - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
>
> ----- : This made DoT's a *lot* less efficient... and yet I think
> it's one of the best nerfs ever done to everquest. Nevertheless it
> deserves five little minus signs since it seriously damaged the
> class' ability to solo effectively.
In one instance of the spells use, aka Kiting. In all other uses the spell
does more damage. One need not solo reds to "solo effectively". My Rogue can
hardly solo blues and is still effective.
> > PALADINS:
> > + Added Archery
>
> +++++ : Used purely as pulling and low level, but still insanely
> useful.
See Ranger, above.
> > + Added innate resistance to disease
>
> Who cares?
Fight some mummies and find out. It's called less downtime when you don't
have to heal at a lower rate due to rabies.
> > SHADOWKNIGHTS:
> > + Made Harm Touch less resistible
>
> You forget to add in where you had made it resistable in the first
> place.
>
> > + Added innate resistance to poison and disease
>
> Who cares?
See above.
> > CLERICS:
> > MONKS:
> > + Added innate resistance to fire
>
> So?
Surely this helps with creatures that cast spells based on fire and burning
meaning less damage and less downtime. Madmen come to mind immediately.
> > NECROS:
> > + Added Special Items to let Necromancers Summon Stronger Pets
>
> Really? What?
It IS called EverQUEST. I think they want people to find out some things
rather than expect to be spoon fed.
> > + Enhanced Pet Pathing
>
> Has ANYBODY noticed their pets pathing better? Anybody?
Since pets only really path to follow your but around or chase some
creature, if they are doing it I guess it's improved :)
> > Magicians
> > + Added Special Items to let Magicians Summon Stronger Pets
>
> Such as? Does this refer to the "shovel of earth" and so on? If so,
> it isn't on production servers yet.
See above
> > + Made Magician Research Easier - especially for their pets
> > + Added Spell Effects to most Magician Summoned Items
>
> ... to compensate for the fact that they suck and nobody would ever
> use them. However, the compensation is lacking-- the only time I've
> ever seen anyone use a magician-summoned weapon is when we were
> killing pets in Rathe Mountains. The sword of runes' proc of ward
> summoned was quite nice there.
The poor find summoned weapons very usefull as an inexpensive way ot get a
temporary magic weapon. There ARE creatures that can only be hit by magic
weapons, donchaknow.
> > + Enhanced AoE Spells to let Magicians effect more creatures
>
> --- Trainstarter. Kiss of death.
AE spells aren't supposed to be used for pulling or a normal fight. They are
supposed to be used to try and kill a train of creatures once started so,
maybe, your party can live.
> > ENCHANTERS:
> > + Jewelry Trade
>
> Plus for enchanters, minus for everybody else since enchanters corner
> the market.
Definately.
> > SHAMAN:
> > + DoT's Made Stronger
>
> Really? Scourge did 1600 damage before the DoT nerf, after it does
> 500. Also, all of the disease spells take two minutes to run to their
> full effect, making them totally useless in groups and only good for
> kiting.
IIRC The dot spell only does LESS damage than before if the creature isn't
in Melee. If it is, it does more. So, under what conditions did you get your
numbers or was this specific to this spell?
Brian Hance
>Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
>news:384CB193...@verant.com...
>> DRUIDS:
>> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
>> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
>> + Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
>> + Increased druid's tracking ability
>> + Added more Class Specific Quests
>> + Added more Class Specific Items
>> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
>> + Enhanced Pet/Charmed Animal Pathing
>> + Enhanced Some Druid Anti-Movement Spells (c.f. Ensnare,
>> Grasping Roots, etc.)
>> + Lowered the Casting Level of Some Druid Teleport Spells
>I'm aware of only 2 class-specific quests/items for druids (a couple of
>average weapons not worth using at the level you need to be to get them).
>I'm hardly a quest/item expert though.
>I do have a negative to add:
>- Removed the ability to move in Treeform
Don't forget:
- Removed the best Druid only weapon from the game.
I want my Oaken Scimitar. Damnit. :-)
--
Brian Hance *"When I invite a woman to dinner I expect
bha...@primenet.com * her to look me in the face. That's the
www.primenet.com/~bhance * price she has to pay"
* Groucho Marx from A NIGHT AT THE OPERA
JeffD
about clerics.
Retrobution was nurfed to do less damage. God forbid clerics at a high
level still cant do shit DD wise.
Überenchanter
hacked to death. Can't please all the people all the time....
Re enchanters:
- The resist still isn't fixed
-/+ Tashan series (but still doesn't fix the above)
- nerf (sorry about the word, but it is) of Whirl till you hurl series (our
non-PB, non-AE stuns)
- addition of Whirl 2 (It's *so* bad, takes *so* long to cast, takes forever
to recycle, get resisted most of the time, and doesn't last as long as it
takes to cast! I can't even remember the name of the thing, I use it so
little. Dunsel's Dizzying Draught :) )
- Adding benefits of questionable value to higher level illusions. a melee
speed buff? for an enchanter? what's wrong with this picture?
- Not yet fixing research. (by getting rid of it). All research is, is a
big *nuisance*. If you want to make X spell harder to get, (why you would
do that is actually beyond me) how about a quest? The right pages turn up
so rarely, and then the "you did not have the skills" crap is not fun.
Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the time you guys have put in to EQ. It's
a great game and I have a great time. I congratulate you on what you've
achieved here and for the changes you have made to try to enhance the game.
As for what I wrote above, you do want to hear about this stuff, don't you?
Thanks!
"Brad McQuaid" <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
news:384CB193...@verant.com...
> Cynic wrote:
>
> > In article <3848DDE1...@verant.com>, Brad McQuaid
> > <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make
> > > the game easier and to help players save time! :)
> >
> > Indeed, given the level of malice you and the rest of the nerfing team
> > have shown for the players over the last several patches at least, I
> > find it hard to believe that this spell will survive for long on the
> > live servers in its current form--if it makes it there at all.
>
> I and the rest of the 'nerfing team' put the following document together
listing
> both enhancements and 'nerfs' we've made to the game since launch. And
while we
> probably forgot some things, both negative and positive (please let us
know and
> I'll update the document), I think it puts in perspective the ratio of
positive
> vs. negative changes to the game we've made. I also feel it heartily
> invalidates the assertion that we are out to make the game harder or to
have
> players advance slower overall, or that 'all we do is nerf'.
>
> The following is broken down by class, and then addresses those changes
made
> that affect the whole game. Changes we feel are positive from just about
any
> perspective are denoted with a '+', and those some players might consider
a
> 'nerf', but that we felt were important for the long term health of the
game,
> are denoted with a '-'.
>
> (again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-'; please
feel free
> to comment and add items).
>
> WIZARDS:
> + Added additional means by which to obtain Ice Comet
> + Made Researching much easier
> + Added more high level spells
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Enhanced AoE Spells to let Wizard effect more creatures
> + Added Plane Travel Spells
> + Enhanced Specific Wizard Stun Spells
> + Added AoE slow monster spell (c.f. Bonds of Force)
>
> RANGERS:
> + Introduction of better average armor that is easier than most to get
> + Critical Bow hits
> + Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
> + Made Ebony Blade group friendly
> + More variety of items obtained via the Forage skill
> + Increased defensive skill caps (parry, dodge)
> + Added innate resistance to fire and cold
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Added additional Ranger Spells
> + Changed Some Spell Casting Skills to allow easier Skilling
> (c.f. Dance of the Fireflies)
>
> DRUIDS:
> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
> + Many new quests requiring a tracker to find outdoor spawn
> + Increased druid's tracking ability
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Enhanced Pet/Charmed Animal Pathing
> + Enhanced Some Druid Anti-Movement Spells (c.f. Ensnare,
> Grasping Roots, etc.)
> + Lowered the Casting Level of Some Druid Teleport Spells
>
> PALADINS:
> + Added Archery
> + Added innate resistance to disease
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Increased stats of Armor of Ro items
>
> SHADOWKNIGHTS:
> + Spell changes (added lifetap)
> + Made Harm Touch less resistible
> + Added innate resistance to poison and disease
> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character, Better
> for High Level once learning curve has passed
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Changes to Pet Appearances
>
> CLERICS:
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> - Resurrect Changes (Players come back sick)
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Reduced the Casting Time of Some Spells (c.f. Word of
> Healing/Health, Ward Series)
>
> MONKS:
> +/- Feign Death Changes - Better for Low Level Character, Better
> for High Level once learning curve has passed
> + New tailoring armor
> + Added items that boost stats, etc.
> + Added innate resistance to fire
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
>
> NECROS:
> - LifeTap/Dots changed
> + Some Lifetap Spells Made more mana efficient
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> + DOTs made more efficient
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Necromancer Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
> + Added Special Items to let Necromancers Summon Stronger Pets
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
> + Lots of New Spells (c.f. Screaming Terror, Pact of Shadow,
> Vampiric Curse, Bond of Death, Summon Corpse, etc.)
> + Enhanced Call of Bones Series
> + Enhanced Screaming Terror
> - Added a Recast Time to Pact of Shadow
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Added New Looks to Necromancer Pets
> - Removed Charm
> + Enhanced Pet Pathing
> + Reduced the Casting Time of Some Necromancer Spells
> + Made Research Easier & Fixed Broken Research
> + Added Quests to let Necromancers Quest (instead of Research) their pets
> + Enhanced Effectiveness of Some Spells (Shadow Vortex, Surge of
> Enfeeblement, Ignite Bones, Dead Man Floating, etc.)
>
> Magicians
> + New summon item spells
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> + Better mid+ level pets (they cast spells now)
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Magician Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
> + Enhanced Pet Pathing
> + Added Special Items to let Magicians Summon Stronger Pets
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
> + Made Magician Research Easier - especially for their pets
> + Added Spell Effects to most Magician Summoned Items
> + Enhanced AoE Spells to let Magicians effect more creatures
> + Reduced Mana Cost of Damage Shields
> + Reduced Casting Time of Ward Series
> + Made the Malise Series Stack Better
> + Made the Burnout Series Better
>
> BARDS:
> + Added stat and other bonuses to instruments
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
> + Added Addition Effects to Some Bard Songs
> + Added New Bard Songs
> + Added Ability for Bards to Punch 'Magic Only' Creatures
> + Increased the Power of Some Bard Songs (c.f. Chant Series,
> Fifil's, etc.)
>
> WARRIORS:
> + Added critical melee hits
> + Later increased chance of critical hits
> + More Hit Points
> + Innate Magical Resistance
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Added Berserking
>
> ROGUES:
> + Added Poison skill
> + Thrown Weapon Critical Hits
> + Minimum Backstab Damage Implemented
> + Minimum Backstab Damage Later Upped
> + Hide/Sneak Enhanced
> + Added innate resistance to poison
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Improvements to Poison Skill
>
> ENCHANTERS:
> + Jewelry Trade
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Made Tishan stack better and removed recasting time
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
> + Increased Durations of All Illusions
> + Made Research Easier
> - Made Illusion Wolf OD Only
> + Added Mana Enchant Spells to Allow Item Enchantment
> + Made Enchanter Pets Look Different
> + Enhanced Certain Spells (curse of the simple mind, etc.
> + Added More Effects to High Level Illusion Spells
> + Better Pet Pathing
>
> SHAMAN:
> + Added Shrink Spell
> - Took too long to recognize Alchemy bug
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> + Made Malise stack better and removed recasting time
> + Better Pet Pathing
> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
> + DoT's Made Stronger
> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> through your pet
> - Removed Charm Spell
> + Increased the Duration of Buffs
>
> ALL MELEE:
> + Purchasable Potions added, giving more versatility to melee
> classes and adding a money sink to the game to help the economy
>
> ALL CASTERS:
> - Removal of Manastone
> + Made it such that you can see meditating (levels 35+)
> + Implemented Specialization
>
> ALL:
> + HALVED experience loss death penalty
> - Removal of weightless box spawn
> + Purchasable weightless box added
> - Introduction of Frenzy code (after level 19)
> + New emotes and animations
> + New graphics for weapons
> + Populated Plane of Fear
> + Populated Plane of Hate
> + Populated Kedge Keep
> + Populated and added Temple of Solusek Ro
> + Increased range for evac and teleport spells
> + Added second boat between Freeport and Butcherblock
> + Added class specific quests for many classes
> + Increased treasure and experience gain rewards for many older quests
> - Upgraded NPC AI such that if an NPC is stuck it can teleport
> around obstacle
> + Added /follow command
> + Added adjustable clipping plane
> + Added /yell command
> + Added /friends list
> + Increased frequency and complexity of dynamic quests and events
> + Added ability to rearrange spells in spellbook
> + Added additional chat filters
>
> --
Brian Andersen
<warg...@redconnect.net> wrote:
>5. Hidden effects. This one is interesting.... bear with me. I think it would be
>cool if there were some items with hidden benefits. Like lets say a Claymore of the
>Elements. 24 dam 48 del. But after use, you discover that when used against
>Elementals it did 50% more damage. just an example... Would at least add the element
>of surprise and discovery to a game where we tend to know all the camps, stats,
>items, spawn rates, etc. etc.
Until the first person discovers this and it ends up on every spoiler
site...
- Brian -
Lilamdar, 14th season Wizard on Brell
Calbik, 12th season Magician on Nameless
Xirin, 6th season Enchanter on Brell
JeffD
wrote:
>
>
>Vinil Firelord wrote:
>
>> How come when you get things fixed so they work, it's called implament
>> rather than fixed?
>
>Simply because when we fix bugs that people didn't want us to fix, it's
>often called a 'nerf'. If we're going to list those as 'nerf's we're
>certainly going to list the fixes that made the game easier/better.
Well maybe if you guys would QUIT crippling the game weve been playing
for months. Half the shit you nerf is half assed crippling of once
class instead of reasonable good codeing on multiple classes to even
the classes out in a certain area. (Example... the removale of fear
effecting other players in pvp. Instead of actually CODEING something
like charm or snare canceling out fear or vice versa (I do know fear
cancels out illusion for some strange ass reason) you said fuck it,
just disable it and lets have a beer.
Proof of you and your nerf teams HALF ASSED thinking can be clearly
seen in the new levitation nerf in which you had your head so far
stuck up your ass, you totaly forgot about the bards leviation and how
it would be effected. I mean holey shit, you guys dont go through
every class and there linked spells when you decide to nerf one class?
Xenomorph
John Vukusic wrote in message <384D8588...@redconnect.net>...
>Who came up with this word "Nerf" anyway? It makes me laugh when i hear it
still....
Dan Bongard
> Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com>
>> CLERICS:
>> + Added more Class Specific Quests
>- Then put those items on 8 hour spawns and on
> NPC's that are hunted by other classes.
A bonus that is hard to get is NOT a nerf, dipshit. It is
just not much of a bonus.
Your sort of mentality is where the "all Verant does is
nerf" myth comes from -- you qualify ANY change to the
game as either a "nerf" or "a waste of time" unless
it (a) makes you more powerful and (b) is easy to do.
-- Dan
Joe
<nojun...@forme.com> wrote:
Oh, give it a rest. His ass is raw enough already.
Noslom
Tim Hess wrote in message <82jjks$9sb$1...@news.xmission.com>...
>Shadow Knights:
>
>- Removed Reclaim Energy (How the hell do I get this out of my spell book?)
>
>> >
>> > + Spell changes (added lifetap)
They are both the same change and I think swapping 3 of your
less used spells for 3 in the Lifetap line was a +.
Noslom
Shrike
>
> Who came up with this word "Nerf" anyway? It makes me laugh when i hear it still....
>
>
[Mondo schnippo]
Excellent suggestions, all of them.
--
Hanrahan Thornhide, Druid in Fennin Ro, Griffin Snack.
Rhialto, Enchanter in Fennin Ro, Young Kodiak Lunch.
"Remember, you reap what you SoW"
isad...@esisusa.com
you for 100damage. How bout that DE Necro girl in Lavastorm that punches
you for 40 something.....wth
Mike <mike...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:s4qpjf...@corp.supernews.com...
Haught Braveguard
yours have an almost uncanny ability to make every change to the game sound
like a gift from god. I have a question. Why does EVERYTHING have to take
so long? What, exactly, is wrong with someone leveling a little faster? Im
not a power leveler but much of the game is, well, tedious. There are easy
solutions to most of the problems too. I just dont understand. Speed up
the healing and mana regen rates and make monsters spawn faster in more
zones. I don't mean .01% faster either. Im talking about significant
increases. If your only interest isnt in trying to hoard as many monthly
fees as possible, prove it. Try it on the test server and see what happens.
And, if you do, dont sabotage it by making spawn rates faster in the wrong
places just to say you did it and it didnt work.
By the way, I like how you made things that needed fixing sound like a plus.
Really....added a boat. Give me a break. You know as well as I that no one
who signed up for this game wanted to sit for an hour just to get from one
city to the next. That is a FIX not an enhancement and it is only one of
several that you listed.
I would write more but Ive already wasted enough time that could be spent
camping my next spawn so I dont have any more to spare.
Brad McQuaid wrote in message <384D3EAF...@verant.com>...
>
>
>Vinil Firelord wrote:
>
>> How come when you get things fixed so they work, it's called implament
>> rather than fixed?
>
>Simply because when we fix bugs that people didn't want us to fix, it's
>often called a 'nerf'. If we're going to list those as 'nerf's we're
>certainly going to list the fixes that made the game easier/better.
>
>--
stephenmcleod
messages (90% negative) in 6 hours.
Sucks that I had to cancel my account and leave a game I liked because
of the staff that ran the game. I still liked EQ.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Überenchanter
*far* outweigh the negatives.
Überenchanter
"Joe" <j...@oiyuas.com> wrote in message
news:384d8ee...@megsnews.megsinet.net...
Haught Braveguard
Überenchanter wrote in message ...
Paul Phillips
You've kissed enough ass today, mkay.
Paul
Dan Bongard wrote:
>
> ro...@becketts.com (Rob Beckett) writes:
> > Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com>
>
> >> CLERICS:
> >> + Added more Class Specific Quests
>
> >- Then put those items on 8 hour spawns and on
> > NPC's that are hunted by other classes.
>
> A bonus that is hard to get is NOT a nerf, dipshit. It is
> just not much of a bonus.
>
> Your sort of mentality is where the "all Verant does is
> nerf" myth comes from -- you qualify ANY change to the
> game as either a "nerf" or "a waste of time" unless
> it (a) makes you more powerful and (b) is easy to do.
>
> -- Dan <I'm a CHILD MOLESTER and PROUD of it> Bongard
Morgan
>
> ALL CASTERS:
>
> + Made it such that you can see meditating (levels 35+)
I am not complaining about the list. I think that almost all the
changes have been for the better, whether they were nerfs or buffs. ;)
But this item has brought my hot key situation to a critical point!
The hot key panels are too small. I keep the "Spells" button hot keyed
on all of my commonly used panels so that I can instantly drop to the
spell screen to meditate or swap spells as the situation demands. I
would love to be able to take advantage of this new improvement, but
there just isn't any hot key real estate left.
Please add key bindings for those two buttons directly so that I don't
have to clutter up my hot key panels with them. It can't be that hard
to do!
(and yes, I will keep whining about this until it happens)
--
Morgan
Xymarra, High Elf Enchanter on E'Ci
George Ruof
>us...@company.com (User32) wrote in
><8CF427097A668BAE.9301F2AF...@lp.airnews.net>:
>
>>Quick question...
>>
>>> BARDS:
>>> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
>>> through your pet
>>
>>Huh?
>>What pet?
>>What was this bug?
>
>Bards can charm, so they can have pets. However, I rather thought the
>bug only applied to magician earth pets...?
Actually I've had it happen to my druid just using the root spell and
having some other monster (not a pet) beating on my target. I'm pretty
sure it was any rooted monster with an NPC (pet, other monster, charmed
monster, etc.) attacking it.
--
George Ruof
gr...@pacificnet.net
stephenmcleod
With the changes to rogues and warriors, monks now do less than many
warriors and rogues from levels 20-50 and about the same as warriors
and rogues with 'good' but not exceptional (ykesha) equipment.
They also have a lower hit point total, lower armor class, and no taunt
(except maybe feign- see below).
Now - feign has been improved -slightly- against <=35 mobs. Where
formerly they would come back if someone attacked them for less damage
than you had done, now they don't. Unless you regularly attacked mobs
outdoors, this NEVER came up because you were pulling from a room at
the end of the hall.
Against Mobs 35+ that wander (no home) feign death is COMPLETELY
broken. They NEVER EVER forget (18-22 'successful' feigns, stand up-
here they come with any buddies they were near or pass).
Against Mobs 35+ that DON'T wander, feign death has been lowered from
100% effective (if 'successful') in two ways. First- all mobs have
about a 20% chance to see through your 'successful' feign now. So if
you feign against 5 or more, you are pretty sure at least one will keep
attacking you. So instead of feign pulling, you are essentially feign
suiciding. Likewise, (and especially against planar creatures that do
a 1/4 of your rune enhanced hit points per blow), you can't use it to
save yourself if things go bad because you feign successfully and then
they kill you anyway.
Against even single escaping PLANAR creatures, you feign, and then you
unplug your network cable after your group kills the other planar
group. (or type /quit). This is the ONLY way to clear their hate
list. Now why do you care? Why not just stand up and have then run
back? Because CAZIK THULE WILL KILL YOU REPEATEDLY IF YOU DO. That's
right, the wanderer aggros CT and he insto kills you. If you are lucky
and he doesn't get you then you are teleport away from your group and
killed remotely. Or if you are really lucky, they just teleport to you
with 5-10 creatures that do 200 HP per blow.
Many MANY monks have quit over this. We are now less common than
shadow nights and almost as uncommon as rogues.
The game requires grouping and folks just don't want to group with a
walking Train machine.
Ray Grant
Sam Schlansky wrote:
> >AE spells aren't supposed to be used for pulling or a normal
> >fight. They are supposed to be used to try and kill a train of
> >creatures once started so, maybe, your party can live.
>
> That's a fine theory, but it never, ever, works out that way.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I almost always agree with Sam, but here we disagree. I
think Sam will allow this exception, cause it is rare, but
it DOES exists. Area effect spells are absolutely AWESOME...
... for me and me wife playing in the same room. There is
5 feet away communication, and I tell her in the span of 2
seconds that Im angling the MOBs together for the area of
effect spells. I constantly switch between MOB to MOB, to
keep them mighty pissed at my Paladin, so they lay off my
wifes Druid, or Ill just root the bastards... This actually
has worked for many Trains also, but only because the
communication is so instant, not very many groups are so
used to each other that they can get it to work so well.
I actually will drag my MOB over close to some other small
groups MOB just to pop an AOE for them too, just to maximize
my wifes Druids AOEs for the hell of it :)
Huge Trains: Run, hehe
George Ruof
>But if that's the way it works (rooted heavily aggro mob in melee range of
>another friendly mob) then bards couldn't possibly have been hit by that bug--
>they can't root.
Someone else could root. Never tried it that way though.
--
George Ruof
gr...@pacificnet.net
isad...@esisusa.com
different class/races...Then let them +/- everything again and see what they
feel about what they did. Thats the only way to experience it 1st hand
right =)
Cynic <antonius_...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:1ca4f2e8...@usw-ex0102-014.remarq.com...
> In article <384CB193...@verant.com>, Brad McQuaid
> <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote:
>
> > > Indeed, given the level of malice you and the rest of the
> > > nerfing team have shown for the players over the last several
> > > patches at least, I find it hard to believe that this spell will
> > > survive for long on the live servers in its current form--if it
> > > makes it there at all.
> > I and the rest of the 'nerfing team' put the following document
> > together listing both enhancements and 'nerfs' we've made to the game
> > since launch.
> > And while we probably forgot some things, both negative and positive
> > (please let us know and I'll update the document), I think it puts in
> > perspective the ratio of positive vs. negative changes to the game
> > we've made. I also feel it heartily invalidates the assertion that
> > we are out to make the game harder or to have players advance slower
> > overall, or that 'all we do is nerf'.
> > The following is broken down by class, and then addresses those
> > changes made that affect the whole game. Changes we feel are
> > positive from just about any perspective are denoted with a '+', and
> > those some players might consider a 'nerf', but that we felt were
> > important for the long term health of the game, are denoted with a
> > '-'.
> > (again, I'm sure we've forgotten some things, both '+' and '-';
> > please feel free to comment and add items).
>
> (Oh so VERY impressive list snipped)
>
> What an interesting and impressive list. Unfortunately, it becomes
> much less so when you add some actual WEIGHT to the value that each '+'
> and each '-' either added or subtracted from a particular class. You
> see, you can add fifteen nice but relatively irrelevant boosts to, say,
> monks, but when you wreck the class by nerfing feign death (and given
> the volume of negative reaction to that particular nerf, the fact that
> you even suggest that this might be anything other than a HUGE '-'
> really goes to show how out of touch you and the rest of the NERFING
> TEAM are with the players and the game itself), the one class-wrecking
> nerf can and does cancel out the boosts. You can give necros and
> enchanters some nice keen new spells tweaks, and quests that result in
> them getting a whole iron ration for those ten killer shark testicles,
> but when you take steps to degrade or destroy the bread and butter of
> those two classes (as you did by nerfing DoTs and pets, and removing
> fear and charm from PvP combat on the PvP servers altogether), those
> keen new spells and tweaks start to look pretty sad in comparison.
>
> And more to the point, the circumstances under which the latest nerfs
> were introduced serves to illustrate the utter lack of respect, and
> yes, outright malice, you have for the players. You don't even bother
> to tell monks that a critical skill has been nigh destroyed at higher
> levels. You don't bother to tell people that when their levitate
> starts to peter when they're moving from platform to platform in
> Kelethin, they won't be able to recast until they're three seconds away
> from being a stain on the forest floor, oh and the spell takes one
> second longer than that to cast, we're so sorry. You don't bother to
> tell necromancers that resists now exist for the Lifetap line (GZ wrote
> someone an amusing letter about this once, claiming he wasn't around
> when this happened). You don't bother to tell people that they risk
> having an army of stuck wolly mammoths teleport on top of them because
> some fool got them stuck and then ran far enough away that they aggro'd
> on the legit hunter.
>
> And in addition to the methods used in introducing them, every single
> nerf that has been introduced in the last three patches at least has
> been to fix something that could have been fixed without a nerf, but
> would have required more code. You didn't have to nerf levitate the
> way you did to prevent people from moving further up with each
> consecutive cast. You didn't have to completely remove fear and charm
> from PvP combat to stop people from charming people and sending them
> into a den of monsters. You didn't have to nerf feign death to keep
> people from exploiting fire giant pathing errors and then getting
> guides to kill them. You didn't have to introduce a bandaid
> teleporting monster fix to keep people from getting mobs stuck and
> casting on them with impunity. You didn't have to nerf pets. You
> didn't have to do a lot of other things you've done, and there are only
> two reasons to explain why you are doing it this way, and with
> increasing frequency. One is laziness on the part of you and your
> programmers, and the other is simple malice towards us. It's so much
> easier to nerf high level pets that make melees look like the jokes
> that they are than it is to beef up the melee classes (and no, critical
> hits and keen armour does not come close to the beefing up that melee
> classes need). It's so much easier, after all, to simply add a few
> lines not allowing you to renew Levitate than it is to have it do a
> check to see if you're already levitating, and if so only renew the
> spell and not lift you higher. It's so much easier to have a mob
> teleport on top of someone than it is to fix the pathing screwups that
> cause them to get caught in the first place. And hey, won't those
> asshole players be surprised, since we didn't announce it?
>
> So, no, your list doesn't put anything into perspective. Because it
> doesn't take into account the relative impact each of these changes had
> on the appropriate class, nor does it take into account the
> circumstances under which the changes were introduced. You've said
> nothing new here, and while I'm sure your list will be reposted on EQ
> Vault and Stratics (as every word you type seems to be) and will be
> lauded by simpletons far and wide as proof that their asskissing has
> been vindicated, it's not particularly impressive. You've presented
> little to invalidate most of the assertions you claim this list
> invalidates, except for the 'all we do is nerf' strawman that I've
> never seen any serious detractor forward.
>
> --
>
> Cynic, who points out that the nerfing of Shaman DDs was left out of
> the list, btw, along with a load of other minor nerfs. And that when
> we ask for more communication, we don't mean more spin-doctoring. For
> a hint, read the latest AC patch message.
User32
Sam Schlansky
<94460747...@news2.bigplanet.com>:
>Mostly I agree with your assessments. Below are some I don't
>immediately agree with.
(snip)
>> > RANGERS:
>> > + Critical Bow hits
>>
>> Who uses a bow? Sure, it's nice that warriors aren't BETTER than
>> rangers with the bow, but... who really cares?
>
>Funny, here you ask "who uses them anyway" and later you mentioned
>archery favorably. I still manage to see many Rangers with bows.
Lower down I mention archery favorably as a pulling mechanism for paladins,
yes. Not as a way to really do damage to your opponent.
(snip)
>> > + Added innate resistance to disease
>>
>> Who cares?
>
>Fight some mummies and find out. It's called less downtime when
>you don't have to heal at a lower rate due to rabies.
We're talking 8 points of disease resistance for the entire class. You'll never
notice any difference, you'll still get diseased same as before. That's half as
much as an endure disease spell.
(snip)
>> > MONKS:
>> > + Added innate resistance to fire
>>
>> So?
>
>Surely this helps with creatures that cast spells based on fire
>and burning meaning less damage and less downtime. Madmen come to
>mind immediately.
Again, eight points of resistance.
>> > NECROS:
>> > + Added Special Items to let Necromancers Summon Stronger Pets
>>
>> Really? What?
>
>It IS called EverQUEST. I think they want people to find out some
>things rather than expect to be spoon fed.
I think it's pretty safe for me to say that there is nothing on production
servers that I don't know about. These quests aren't on production servers yet.
>> > + Enhanced Pet Pathing
>>
>> Has ANYBODY noticed their pets pathing better? Anybody?
>
>Since pets only really path to follow your but around or chase
>some creature, if they are doing it I guess it's improved :)
They did that before.
(snip)
>> > + Made Magician Research Easier - especially for their pets
>> > + Added Spell Effects to most Magician Summoned Items
>>
>> ... to compensate for the fact that they suck and nobody would
>> ever use them. However, the compensation is lacking-- the only
>> time I've ever seen anyone use a magician-summoned weapon is
>> when we were killing pets in Rathe Mountains. The sword of
>> runes' proc of ward summoned was quite nice there.
>
>The poor find summoned weapons very usefull as an inexpensive way
>ot get a temporary magic weapon. There ARE creatures that can only
>be hit by magic weapons, donchaknow.
So? Everybody has a magic weapon at level one these days.
>> > + Enhanced AoE Spells to let Magicians effect more creatures
>>
>> --- Trainstarter. Kiss of death.
>
>AE spells aren't supposed to be used for pulling or a normal
>fight. They are supposed to be used to try and kill a train of
>creatures once started so, maybe, your party can live.
That's a fine theory, but it never, ever, works out that way.
(snip)
>> > SHAMAN:
>> > + DoT's Made Stronger
>>
>> Really? Scourge did 1600 damage before the DoT nerf, after it
>> does 500. Also, all of the disease spells take two minutes to
>> run to their full effect, making them totally useless in groups
>> and only good for kiting.
>
>IIRC The dot spell only does LESS damage than before if the
>creature isn't in Melee. If it is, it does more. So, under what
>conditions did you get your numbers or was this specific to this
>spell?
It's specific to all shaman disease DOT's. Our disease DOT's used to last like
eleven minutes and do *insane* damage over that time. Obviously, this was
REALLY only useful for kiting. :)
Still, they were not made stronger.
(snip)
Sam
--
/| Sam Schlansky <sam[at]operation3d[dot]com>
/| I speak for myself only unless noted otherwise.
/| PGP Key ID: 0x63A9D707
/| 3DNews.net: News With Perspective!
/| 3DHardware.net: Taking Your Machine To The Third Dimension!
/| Remove "deletethis" to email.
John Henders
>Quick question...
Someone's on Mars about that one. That bug only affected pet using
casters who could root. It's sad to see them adding general class bug
fixes to each class seperately to try to pad out the positive side.
--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*
Sam Schlansky
>Quick question...
>
>> BARDS:
>> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
>> through your pet
>
>Huh?
>What pet?
>What was this bug?
Bards can charm, so they can have pets. However, I rather thought the
bug only applied to magician earth pets...?
Sam
Twilight
>>I and the rest of the 'nerfing team' put the following document
>>together listing both enhancements and 'nerfs' we've made to the
>>game since launch. And while we probably forgot some things, both
>>negative and positive (please let us know and I'll update the
>>document),
>
i guess i will only comment on the classes i play
>
>> SHADOWKNIGHTS:
>> + Spell changes (added lifetap)
ermm you dont play an SK do you? if you did you will realise how
utterly useless this is. Most SKs wont even notice the difference
>
>> + Made Harm Touch less resistible
>
yes you fixed a bug.
>> + Added innate resistance to poison and disease
>
>Who cares?
exactly, like this is a big thing.Woah plsu 4 posion disease!!!
woohooo!!
>> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
>> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
you mean the corpses going poof? You fixed a damn bug
>> + Added more Class Specific Quests
>> + Added more Class Specific Items
Once again you obviuosly havent played or tried to cap for such items.
>> +/- Feign Death Changes – Better for Low Level Character, Better
>> for High Level once learning curve has passed
>
>> + Made Certain Spells Harder to Resist (c.f. Invoke Fear)
then took it away on the Pvp servers, nice...
>> + Changes to Pet Appearances
WHich SK uses his pet?
>
>> NECROS:
>> - LifeTap/Dots changed
>> + Some Lifetap Spells Made more mana efficient
Yes the end result is that we dont sue it because it fucks us up more
>> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
>> + DOTs made more efficient
you fixed a bug.
>> + Added more Class Specific Quests
>> + Added more Class Specific Items
>> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
>> + Necromancer Pet Buff Spells Strengthened
Yay more power to pets
>> + Added Special Items to let Necromancers Summon Stronger Pets
huh?
>
>> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
>> through your pet
holy shit you admitted to fixing a BUG, no shit you take pride in
fixing your crap, which should be fixed anyway?
>
>> + Lots of New Spells (c.f. Screaming Terror, Pact of Shadow,
>> Vampiric Curse, Bond of Death, Summon Corpse, etc.)
>
>Shouldn't screaming terror be documented as being first very useful,
>then useless, then a train starter, and now a mesmerization spell?
exactly
>> + Enhanced Pet Pathing
>
>Has ANYBODY noticed their pets pathing better? Anybody?
nope
>> BARDS:
>> + Added stat and other bonuses to instruments
which bard dont use becuase our HTH is capped at 100
>> + Added more Class Specific Quests
>> + Added more Class Specific Items
which we didnt have before
>> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
>> through your pet
agian another bug
>> + Added Addition Effects to Some Bard Songs
cos they were broken
>> + Added New Bard Songs
huh? like what? you mean you fixed the existing ones?
>> + Added Ability for Bards to Punch 'Magic Only' Creatures
oh yeah, this is great
>> + Increased the Power of Some Bard Songs (c.f. Chant Series,
>> Fifil’s, etc.)
which it absolutely useless, hey adding 3 more points of dmage is a
joke at lvl 45
-songs still missing
-keeps bugging our songs( ie levitate) which i suppose you will call
an enchancement when you "fixed" it.
Honestly you are an idiot mcquaid, fixing bugs seem to be the only
thing you seem to think as an enchancement. IT IS BUG ,you suppose to
fucking fix it.
"I can picture in my mind a world without war , a world without hate . And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it. " -Jack Handey
Sam Schlansky
<2E061655F4601056.21596829...@lp.airnews.net>:
>s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam Schlansky) wrote:
>
>>us...@company.com (User32) wrote in
>><8CF427097A668BAE.9301F2AF...@lp.airnews.net
>><>:
>>
>>>Quick question...
>>>
>>>> BARDS:
>>>> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far
>>>> distances through your pet
>>>
>>>Huh?
>>>What pet?
>>>What was this bug?
>>
>>Bards can charm, so they can have pets. However, I rather thought
>>the bug only applied to magician earth pets...?
>
>Actually I've had it happen to my druid just using the root spell
>and having some other monster (not a pet) beating on my target.
>I'm pretty sure it was any rooted monster with an NPC (pet, other
>monster, charmed monster, etc.) attacking it.
Ahh, okay.
But if that's the way it works (rooted heavily aggro mob in melee range of
another friendly mob) then bards couldn't possibly have been hit by that bug--
they can't root.
Sam
Sam Schlansky
<82kq3a$192s$1...@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net>:
>> >Actually I've had it happen to my druid just using the root
>> >spell and having some other monster (not a pet) beating on my
>> >target. I'm pretty sure it was any rooted monster with an NPC
>> >(pet, other monster, charmed monster, etc.) attacking it.
>>
>> Ahh, okay.
>>
>> But if that's the way it works (rooted heavily aggro mob in
>> melee range of another friendly mob) then bards couldn't
>> possibly have been hit by that bug-- they can't root.
>
>You are incorrect. Bards can root. The chain song (can't remember
>the exact name) is a root if I remember correctly.
You're thinking of Selo's Consonant Chain, the level 23 bard song. It reduces
mobility slightly less than snare/ensnare/darkness and also has a small attack
speed debuff. It does not root.
I'm not going to turn this into a flame, because I'm feeling charitable today--
but don't tell me I'm incorrect without checking your facts.
Paul Phillips
Paul
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
--
Brad McQuaid
If people are going to consider us fixing some bugs (those they consider negatively affecting them) as nerfs, then I'm going to consider fixing other bugs (those
they might consider positively affecting them) enhancements.
Twilight wrote:
> >> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> >> through your pet
>
> holy shit you admitted to fixing a BUG, no shit you take pride in
> fixing your crap, which should be fixed anyway?
>
> >
> >> + Lots of New Spells (c.f. Screaming Terror, Pact of Shadow,
> >> Vampiric Curse, Bond of Death, Summon Corpse, etc.)
> >
> >Shouldn't screaming terror be documented as being first very useful,
> >then useless, then a train starter, and now a mesmerization spell?
>
> exactly
>
> >> + Enhanced Pet Pathing
> >
> >Has ANYBODY noticed their pets pathing better? Anybody?
>
> nope
>
> >> BARDS:
> >> + Added stat and other bonuses to instruments
>
> which bard dont use becuase our HTH is capped at 100
>
> >> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> >> + Added more Class Specific Items
>
> which we didnt have before
>
> >> + Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
> >> through your pet
>
> agian another bug
>
> >> + Added Addition Effects to Some Bard Songs
>
> cos they were broken
>
> >> + Added New Bard Songs
>
> huh? like what? you mean you fixed the existing ones?
>
> >> + Added Ability for Bards to Punch 'Magic Only' Creatures
>
> oh yeah, this is great
>
> >> + Increased the Power of Some Bard Songs (c.f. Chant Series,
> >> Fifil’s, etc.)
>
> which it absolutely useless, hey adding 3 more points of dmage is a
> joke at lvl 45
>
> -songs still missing
> -keeps bugging our songs( ie levitate) which i suppose you will call
> an enchancement when you "fixed" it.
>
> Honestly you are an idiot mcquaid, fixing bugs seem to be the only
> thing you seem to think as an enchancement. IT IS BUG ,you suppose to
> fucking fix it.
>
> "I can picture in my mind a world without war , a world without hate . And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it. " -Jack Handey
--
Keil
wrote:
>Impossible! This would be mean that we're adding something to make the game
>easier and to help players save time! :)
Oh, he didn't go there did he? Eh, after making a lvl 50 all other
characters are easy as shit to lvl. Game is to easy hehe :)
>
>Adar wrote:
>
>> From EQCasters:
>>
>> 'Received some rumours from the Test Server of a possible new spell for
>> Necromancers called Summon Corpse.
>>
>> Supposedly this spell costs 150pp per cast and 700 mana but can summon a
>> corpse from anywhere in the zone.
>>
>> If you have any further details/screenshots of the scroll off Test Server,
>> send them in.'
>>
>> Good news if this goes in:
>> -End of worrying about failed Nagafen/Vox runs
>> -End of the 'my corpse is lost under 3000 feet of lava' Sol A problems
>> -Much easier PoF raids (no more 'scareling teleported me to Cazic's big toe'
>> incidents...)
>> -Necros in West Commons now receive constant spam from L10's 0-3 zones over
>> along the lines of 'i lost my stuff and i dont no were i am, can u come over
>> and bring it back to me? will pay u 5 plats'
>>
>> Bad news:
>> -If you thought necros were crowding out melees in the big five zones
>> (planes, SolB, LGuk, Kedge) *before* this little gem was put in...
>>
>> Brudo (E'ci)
>> Loredaeron (E'ci)
>>
>> ---
>> From the Asheron's Call Player's Guidebook:
>> 'Trading with other players is your best method of gaining the most valuable
>> and
>> unique items. However, just like in the real world, you must gain the trust
>> of
>> your trading partner. If that proves difficult, consider using a reliable
>> third party
>> as a trading broker.'
>>
>> Trusting a trading broker: Zero dollars.
>> Getting ripped off: Zero dollars.
>> Venting about it: Zero dollars.
>> The expression on your face when you read the above quote: Priceless.
>>
>> Some things you simply can't buy. For cancelling them, there's Mastercard.
Keil
>Now that is totally stupid, that's gotta be bullshit, there should
>never be a cost of plat when casting a spell, that's ridicules. Even
>in the crap game D&D there's no such thing. If this is true then Brad
>McQuaid is a bigger Moron than I thought.
No you are the Moron. Dumb fuck. Its the cost of a regent. Same as
cost of gems used to get to Hate dumb ass. I will call you stupid
and not ignorant.
>
>"Joe C." wrote:
>>
>> Sean <NO....@WILL.SEE.THIS> wrote in message
>> news:53624.12342$wG3.8...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
>> > Not sure if 150 plat/700 mana would help much. ;-)
>> >
>> Considering the possibility of facing death at the feet of a dragon, I'd
>> say its nice to have a last resort, even a costly one.
>>
>> -Aildrik
Keil
Barbarian On The Block) wrote:
>Heh. I can't imagine anyone who's that high who'd carry ALL their money on
>their corpse. I never carry more than I'm willing to lose and never less than
>I might actually need--for me, that runs around 15-25pp for my Enchanter and
>about 40 or 50 for my Troll. (He spends more time away from home than she does
>and can't shop himself, so he has to hire people to do it for him.)
>
>Or, if nothing else, the warrior could buy one of those gems and keep it in his
>bank vault to hand to the necro, just in case...
I've had as much as 750p in collected in a playing period so its not
uncommon to have plat. But it a regent not money.
>
>>In article <82c490$87l$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>, "danstrad"
>><dans...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>>>Its not gonna be a cost of pp, itll use a reagent that costs ~150pp.
>>
>>Kinda curious how someone can pay when all the money is on their corpse? :)
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>I can see Necros getting screwed over:
>>
>>NakedGuy1: Dude, need my corpse, got the money on my corpse.
>>
>>Necro: Alright, ill get it.
>>
>>Necro casts spell.
>>
>>NakedGuy1: Thanks.... Sucker!
>>
>>Necro is screwed out of 150PP and puts guy on list not to summon anymore.
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Now THAT is gunna blow because there are so many dimwits around who will be
>>doing this. And whats worse is when a PoF team gets wiped, a necro is going
>>to
>>be spammed so hard, and is going to lose track of everything.
>>
>>Just some things I just thought about... As a Necro you dont HAVE to summon
>>for anyone, but man... What a downer. You could be screwed out 150PP at any
>>moment.
>>
>>One way around is have the person /consent you the corpse before you cast the
>>
>>spell to insure that you will have a chance to speed loot his ass first and
>>get the money yourself.
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
><i>There are some things you can't share without
>ending up liking each other, and knocking out a
>twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them.</i>
> -- J.K. Rowlings
>