Playing the game as its meant to be played? (spoilers, LONG)
Sam Schlansky
MOB location spoilers for Mistmoore. In fact, the quest spoiler hasn't even
been posted on EQ'Lizer or Allakhazam's sites yet! It also, as usual for my
longer posts, contains quite a bit of ranting. Be warned.
Everquest's very NAME has always been a lie. The basic underlying structure of
the game does NOT reward quests, it rewards camping and pulling to the zone.
Brian Hook can only do spawn so many Tae Urd Archons in one day, and the other
GM's don't seem interested in doing anything other than spawning 100's of
undead in a zone and calling it a dynamic quest.
I thought I had finally discovered an interesting quest with a good reward. In
Castle Mistmoore, you have to kill Maid Issis and Butler SomethingOrOther (I
always forget his name) and loot some vampire teeth off their corpses. You then
give these two teeth to the Avenging Catliff and receive a shiny new and VERY
cool weapon, the Electrum-Bladed Wakizashi. (7 dam 21 delay)
Sit back and relax while you read about my evening...
1) It took me around an hour and a half to round up a group of like-leveled
people (36 to 40 or so) to even attempt the quest, since everybody is always
ever so busy happily power-leveling in Cazic-Thule, Solusek B, or Lower Guk.
That's two hours of not doing ANYTHING but talking to friends via /tells and
asking them to help me out. They were camping the Avatar, the Kobold Noble, the
Froggie Assassin, you name it, and didn't want to leave their groups. So, I
basically had to wait for people to log on and then our druid and wizard went
to get them wherever they were. The wizard was the resident "expert" on
Mistmoore, and he gave us some advice... if one person's invisibility dies in a
big room, he's DEAD. Don't attack and try to save him, you'll die too. Fair
'nuff. At least it was THEN.
conclusion i) Even if you have a total and complete spoiler for a quest, unless
you're in a BIG guild or know lots of people you won't be able to do it. If
you're a soloer, you can't do the quest, and if you just group with "whatever's
open" you won't know enough people to help you out.
conclusion ii) People who can only play for a couple of hours a night are out
of luck. You'll NEVER be able to do it. Only those of us lucky enough to be
able to play for hours and hours at a time need apply.
conclusion iii) Unless you have a high level wizard or druid as one of the
abovementioned friends or guildmates, you're out of luck. This isn't
necessarily a bad thing though.
2) Once we all got to Mistmoore, we invised/stepped into shadows/camo'd up,
cast see invis on each other, and walked up to the castle courtyard. One
person's invisibility ran out, and a few dozen completely green creatures
attacked. Several level 20's who were pulling to the zone died; we all lived.
conclusion iv) Invisibility is far too unreliable. While I understand and
appreciate that the designers didn't want people to go through and map out
zones, I also understand that they don't want sites like EQ'Lizer and
Allakhazam's to EXIST in the first place. Live with it Verant, you're running a
multiplayer online RPG, spoiler sites WILL exist. I see no reason for
invisibility having a random ratio at ALL, and the way it doesn't even give a
warning is just inexcusable. The spell is too powerful otherwise you say? What
about the enchanter's illusion spells (set time period, warning when running
out), the rogue's hide and sneak ability (unlimited time period), or the bards'
invisibility song (unlimited time period, never fails at high level). People
already HAVE working invisibility, now just fix the spells!
conclusion v) Green creatures SHOULD NEVER ATTACK. What the hell is the point
of being attacked by 1000 green creatures? WE'RE not gonna die... we have SoW,
higher level magic resistance and defense, and evac if need be, but the poor
bastards at the zone will. And do. The way it's set up now stops people from
exploring for fear of being mobbed everywhere they go. It's just annoying,
unnecessary, and not fun.
3) Our group rested up, reinvised, and ran back up into the castle. We made it
all the way back to Maid Issis' room, started fighting, and she 32K'd herself.
What the hell was with that? Was she sooooo scared that we were coming that she
decided to commit suicide? I'm sure that this is just a game quirk (her spot
was respawning) but damn was it annoying.
4) We cleared out the room and pulled the Butler, who dropped a "Cape of
Midnight Mist", one of the first items I've ever seen in the game NOT on
EQ'Lizer. (ac 2, strength plus 5, sv magic plus 7). It looks like a black
embroidered cape but for some reason fits in the neck slot.
conclusion vi) Every (and I mean EVERY) item needs its own distinguishable
icon. Yes, I realize that there are probably 15,000 items in the game... but so
what? How long does it take somebody to make a 32x32 pixel icon? Don't start
with rare items like this cape though, lets see icons for common items like
FRUITS and BERRIES foraged by rangers, BBC's, SBH's, PGT's, Dark Reavers,
Ghoulbanes, Soulfires. How hard is this?
conclusion vii) If an item looks like a cape it should damn well go on your
back. 'Nuff said.
5) One of our group had to log off due to some kind of emergency. He was, of
course, a warrior. So, we had to get our druid to guide him allll the way to
the zone camo'd. Camo ran out, they trained to zone. They lived, the lower
levels didn't. If you think the GREENS can do damage, wait until you see
werewolves, ancilles, soul devourers, etc, tear into a bunch of level 20's!
They didn't even know what hit 'em.
7) Our druid came back to the group, and the wizard wanted to attack the
"Cloaked Vampyre" nearby. This made me kind of nervous, since we were only five
people, and all of them were lower level than me. I didn't want to do it until
we had a full group, but he insisted. On the way in a gargoyle room (green) our
cleric's invisibility went down. He instantly died while we all stood there
like assholes and watched it.
8) So the cleric zoned back in (he was bound right outside), got invis,
/corpsed his body to the zone, looted it, and took off for parts unseen. Not
that I blame him... if my group left me to die I'd be pissed too. We all felt
like pricks, even though we would have died too. It was a BIG room.
9) Now we're four people. Me (40 Ranger), a 38 druid, a 35 wizard, and a 36
warrior. We all try to get more people, but its getting pretty late and nobody
wants to join up, so we make the best of it and try to continue. The Maid spot
pops up, we kill it. Then, the other three spots pop up and I notice that I'm
the only one meleeing the monster... our warrior had gone LD! Uh oh. We evac
out of there to the Karanas and leave him to die. He never did log back on... I
kept on /who'ing his name all night too. When he logs back on, he's gonna have
a big surprise.
conclusion viii) The Internet _is_ a fickle beast, and Verant can't do much
about it. I really can't think up a solution to this one... if you're linkdead,
should you instantly disappear from the world? But then people will just hit
the power button when they're about to die, right? It's unfair, but there's not
much you can do about it.
10) Since we're outside of MM anyway, we manage to pick up a 36 shadowknight
and a 32 monk to join us. The monk is really too low level, but he's somehow
connected to the shadowknight and has to come with her. We group teleport back
to Greater Faydark, SoW up, run through lesser faydark, and zone into
Mistmoore. Then, we invis up, and go into the castle. See conclusions 4 and 5--
more newbies die. We're got quite a kill count by now and people are pretty
pissed at us.
11) So anyway, we make it back into the castle, and the wizard absolutely
INSISTS on taking on the Cloaked Vampyre first. He won't take "no" for an
answer. We get into the castle, get turned around somehow, and get into an
outside garden of sorts PACKED with monsters. My invisibility runs out right in
the middle of a whole bunch of em. I scream EVAC!! SUCCOR!! NOW DAMMIT!! The
druid tries over and over to succor as the monk, the shadowknight, and I melee
to keep the monsters off of him. He never gets it off and dies. I frantically
try to use my spare Lizard Blood potion to gate to safety in Cazic-Thule, but
forget that it can't be in a backpack and die.
convlusion ix) Why do usable items need to be in your main inventory slots? I
have seven backpacks and one greater lightstone in my inventory, and I don't
have the space for that crap. I can just imagine how easy it would be to fix
this, too.
12) So I SoW myself and run back down to Mistmoore. The wizard is sitting there
medding... apparantly his invisibility never ran out and he let us ALL die. He
didn't even try to evac. He says "/consent me and I'll drag your corpse to
safety". I tell him that I wouldn't consent my own mother, much less HIM, and
/consent the druid (a friend of mine for a long time) who drags my corpse out
for me.
13) I go back to Solusek B to get in a group to camp kobolds, as the game
obviously wants me to do. I have spent nine hours of my life to get one item
which went to the wizard who left us all to die, and I lost a half bubble of
experience at hell level three (level 40). Not a productive evening. If I had
stayed in Solusek B, I would have gotten half a bubble and maybe some trade
items.
FINAL CONCLUSION 1: Exploring is bad. It's bad because green creatures will
attack you and the only ways to avoid them are faulty. Exploring is also bad
because when you get too far from the zone line it just means a more dangerous
trip to retrieve your corpse where you WILL die. So, don't explore.
FINAL CONCLUSION 2: Quests are impossible unless you have overpowering numbers
and experience. It would take a full group of 40's to clear that castle area. A
full BALANCED group of 40's. And unless you clear it, you can't get in since
invisibility is broken.
FINAL CONCLUSION 3: Being low level in a higher-level zone is bad. At level 20
you should be in Unrest with the 82 others! Why are you in Mistmoore? Bad bad
bad level 20's... maybe 10 deaths over one hour will teach you a lesson?
FINAL CONCLUSION 4: You should always be very close to a zone, have SoW on,
have a wizard ready to cast evac, and stay in one room and pull to it. Never
move, just pull and kill the same creatures over and over. Moving is bad.
The $65,000 Question: Is this fun?
Sam
--
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/| Stusser (Lvl 6/Wood Elf/Ranger on The Rathe)
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/| 3DNews.net: News With Perspective!
/| Remove "deletethis" to email.
Merana
this post was an interesting read, but it has made me rather sad. I have
been coming to the conclusion in the last couple of months that this game is
not for the casual gamer who has a couple of hours to spare in the evening.
At least not the right game if you also want a chance to make level fifty
and see some of the dungeons and interesting high level mobs, other then
just the area near the zone line.
I like to read the posts of high level peope, because they tell interesting
stories about the inner dungeons, and about all kinds of high level mobs,
that I have yet never seen. The problem is, I m beginning to think I will
NEVER see those mobs you are talking about, The Avatar, the Kobold noble,
the froggie Assasin, let alone Lord Nagafen in his lair. Not because because
I like tot solo a lot(I do, but I also group a lot and understand the need
of grouping when coming into higher levels and exploring the high level
dungeons), but because I simply do NOT have the playing time to get enough
friends together to form that full group that can tackle those dungeons, day
after day. O yes, my friends list has 20 people on them, but by now they
have a levelspread of 18-50, because I cant simply keep up with most of
them(im level 18 Cleric, and my newest friend(game friend that is) is level
18 also....at least she was 3 days ago).
So basically I can group with a couple of hard core gamers for a couple of
days/week, then the level spread has become to big, because erveyday when I
went off line they put in another 8 hours. And I think at high levels you
just wont be able to find a good group every week, with is new to you, that
will take that unknown cleric in.....
So reading a post such as yours is becoming a frustrating experience more
and more, because I am beginning to realize, I wil never get there...
Maybe I am wrong, I sure hope so, and will it still be possible to get to
higher levels, by casual gaming..but it wont be possible by finding OTHER
casual gamers, that is for sure.
Wodan, a Cleric.
Sam Schlansky heeft geschreven in bericht
<8E1B5868D...@news1.newscene.com>...
Vorlin
<Lots of stuff snipped>
>conclusion v) Green creatures SHOULD NEVER ATTACK. What the hell is the
point
>of being attacked by 1000 green creatures?
I can see this being used on a limited basis for setting up a roleplay feel
(i.e. temple guards giving their lives recklessly in defense of the temple
or something), but it should be a rare area design, not a common one, as
seems to be the case. :/
>7) Our druid came back to the group, and the wizard wanted to attack the
>"Cloaked Vampyre" nearby. This made me kind of nervous, since we were only
five
>people, and all of them were lower level than me. I didn't want to do it
until
>we had a full group, but he insisted.
Doh, big warning sign here, this is my #1 red flag for a bad group: people
in group can't figure out what mobs can and can't be done. I'm guessing a
warning light was going off in your head too, but after spending all that
effort to get there you didn't want to leave. Understandable, but I bet you
were kicking yourself later over it. *comfort*
BTW, for those just dying to know, my #2 red flag is a group that thinks
someone is a tank who really isn't.
>FINAL CONCLUSION 1: Exploring is bad. It's bad because green creatures will
>attack you and the only ways to avoid them are faulty. Exploring is also
bad
>because when you get too far from the zone line it just means a more
dangerous
>trip to retrieve your corpse where you WILL die. So, don't explore.
I said it before in another post, I'll repeat it here: EQ has the highest
'Fuck you and die' factor of any mud I've played. One of the many reasons I
retired my warrior was because exploring with him was a death-fest, as 99%
of your 'discoveries' in EQ are discovering that you
can't/won't/shouldn't/mustn't/etc.
>FINAL CONCLUSION 3: Being low level in a higher-level zone is bad. At level
20
>you should be in Unrest with the 82 others! Why are you in Mistmoore? Bad
bad
>bad level 20's... maybe 10 deaths over one hour will teach you a lesson?
I think whenever you hang out at the edge of a zone where the majority of
mobs are much higher level than you, you have to take responsibility for
that decision and not freak out if you get killed by a train. The only
thing I ask for from the people leading that train to me would be for them
to shout if possible to give me a chance to move away.
Noslom
to this dungeon. I have found after a while that you can learn
how to pull only smaller sets of monsters and how to control
the fights well. If you always pull/train to zone you never aquire
these skills or knowledge.
I have been very succesfull with a group slowly working our
way deeper into a dungeon in 'steps'. We clear an area and
then pull from a little deeper, a little deeper then once we
have control and have learned the area we move to
a deeper spot and repeat. You quickly realize how strong
a group needs to be for a given area. The next trip there
we start one posistion back from the first greens and start
again.
Sounds like you just want to walk in, kill mob x, and then
walk out with item y. When you are way over level for an
area this works. When you are borderline this strategy
will probably get you killed. Your also being a coward and
making the game rough for others - the pullling constant
trains to zone by lazy 30+ players in Mistmoore make it
a death trap to others. This gets even worse when they
don't even say a train is coming. Pulling a few trains
in a new area always happens, most of learn to live with
it but some of the morons pull train after train after train
with no warning as they are trying again and again to get
deep in and kill some monsters for a piece of kewl loot.
As for exploring in Everquest being to rough I have to disagree.
With a decent group with the above mentioned method I have
been able to slowly explore lots of areas, a bad surprise will
get some of us killed but the penalty for death is not all that
much (I don't lose equipment which I did in a lot of muds.) Also
you gain tons of exp using the above method anyway so I
usually come out ahead. Some zones require a different
strategy which is a good thing - I like variety.
Noslom
ka...@wwwaif.net
>Hmmm. Hate to say it but your taking the lazy/whiner route
>to this dungeon. I have found after a while that you can learn
>how to pull only smaller sets of monsters and how to control
>the fights well. If you always pull/train to zone you never aquire
>these skills or knowledge.
Have you ever been through the cave to the entrance of Castle Mistmoore? If
so, please explain to me how you can 'pull only smaller sets of monsters', let
alone control the fight well.
Mistmoore is a fabulous dungeon, far and away my favourite in the game. (Not
that I've visited too many other dungeons for longer than a few hours; I
mostly hunted outdoors until level 30, and since then, I've been alternating
between Unrest (crowded, camped but because of that, safe) and Mistmoore (an
incredibly exhilirating deathtrap). That said, it is also one of the most
woefully underused, and because the interior is pretty much unexplored/hunted
territory, it would take a massive effort to clean out even the entrance way
to allow for more exploration.
Back to your suggestion: at the foot of the cave, which leads into the
courtyard in front of the castle gates, there are approximately 8 ancilles of
varying types. Between the courtyard and the castle door, there are probably a
half dozen other mobs. If you pull just one of these mobs, every single
ancille, guard, deathly harbringer, deadly herald, gargoyle and gypsy will
follow. You *could* clear the entrance to the castle, but it would require at
*least* two groups of upper 30s lower 40s to do it, and it would take a *long*
time. And since the majority of these critters are probably green to upper
30s lower 40s players, they won't be getting any experience, which would
rather discourage them from helping 'clear the castle' so that players of the
appropriate level would be able to hunt in the courtyard.
>I have been very succesfull with a group slowly working our
>way deeper into a dungeon in 'steps'. We clear an area and
>then pull from a little deeper, a little deeper then once we
>have control and have learned the area we move to
>a deeper spot and repeat. You quickly realize how strong
>a group needs to be for a given area. The next trip there
>we start one posistion back from the first greens and start
>again.
This would work fine in the classic, twisty little passages dungeon, where
what you see is pretty much what you get in terms of mobs (unless you let a
runner escape). There are rooms inside the castle with as many as 20 mobs,
casters, charmers and those that do nothing but hit HARD, all of which are
aggro and *will* attack - and mob - on sight. Since the castle is so
underused, there is rarely anyone hunting inside it, so it is at full spawn
all the time.
The only way to travel in Mistmoore is to be invisible at all times except
during a fight, due to aggro, swarmy greens. That is a problem in itself,
since none of the tanking classes (except shadowknights and rogues) have the
invisio/camo/hide ability, so when one invisibility drops (without warning, of
course, despite the claims in the last patch that say it blinks), it leaves
the party with the attractive choice of whether to risk rebuffing the luckless
now-visible party member or letting him die. You have about .5 seconds to mull
this over before something spots him. Happy hunting!
Time for a confession: I *have* explored the inside of the castle, as an
invisible level 1 high elf enchanter. I *know* what's inside, and believe me,
it's *great*. It is a gorgeously designed, truly spooky place, and I think it
would provide exciting hunting for groups up to even the 40s ... *if* it
hadn't been written off already by most of these levels as a deathtrap. It's
sort of a catch 22 situation; if the castle was cleared, or at least
clearable, by less than three groups of high level players, it would be far
easier to explore and pull from for the next wave of mid- to high-level
players. But because the initial job is so daunting, 90% of the zone is
unused.
>Sounds like you just want to walk in, kill mob x, and then
>walk out with item y. When you are way over level for an
>area this works. When you are borderline this strategy
>will probably get you killed. Your also being a coward and
>making the game rough for others - the pullling constant
>trains to zone by lazy 30+ players in Mistmoore make it
>a death trap to others. This gets even worse when they
>don't even say a train is coming. Pulling a few trains
>in a new area always happens, most of learn to live with
>it but some of the morons pull train after train after train
>with no warning as they are trying again and again to get
>deep in and kill some monsters for a piece of kewl loot.
Actually, he's *not* 'way over level' for this area; Mistmoore is a *high
level* dungeon. Theoretically, you should be able to fight here - and get
experience - until at least the lower 40s. *Everything* trains in Mistmoore,
from the little pledge familiars that hang out at the zone to the
gypsy/werewolf/negotiator combo that comes out to greet interlopers to the
castle. The only way to avoid trains in MM is to stick to the Graveyard, as
far as I can tell. At least until the zone is better populated (with players,
that is, there are *quite* enough mobs as it is), it's an equal opportunity
death trap, and trains are the punishment for any group that wants to move
more than fifty feet from the zone.
>As for exploring in Everquest being to rough I have to disagree.
>With a decent group with the above mentioned method I have
>been able to slowly explore lots of areas, a bad surprise will
>get some of us killed but the penalty for death is not all that
>much (I don't lose equipment which I did in a lot of muds.) Also
>you gain tons of exp using the above method anyway so I
>usually come out ahead. Some zones require a different
>strategy which is a good thing - I like variety.
>
I look forward to your detailed guide on Surviving Mistmoore Without Hugging
the Zone. I'm sure the original poster is keenly awaiting it as well. Believe
me, I *want* to explore this zone, in my 'real skin' rather than as a
throwaway character, because I know that it would great fun. Unfortunately,
until it's more well-trodden turf, I'm not sure if it's possible.
K
BlondeFury
Sam Schlansky <s...@deletethis.operation3d.com> wrote in message
news:8E1B5868D...@news1.newscene.com...
> FINAL CONCLUSION 3: Being low level in a higher-level zone is bad. At
level 20
> you should be in Unrest with the 82 others! Why are you in Mistmoore? Bad
bad
> bad level 20's... maybe 10 deaths over one hour will teach you a lesson?
I play in Mistmoore, and have since level 19. Whenever a high level group
pulls a huge train and everyones resting outside, theres no hostility in my
mind. I', a plebe yanking yardtrash in a very dangerous place. I usually
commend them for their artistic pull. IE, Wow, great train, thats at least
a 7, nice vampire, killed my bud in one blast...
That and I know that trains are the only way I'm going to ever see whats
deeper because I work and don't have the time to level to 50 in two months.
Anyway, I accept the fact that I'm a light green in a deep red zone and when
people do yell train, i am appreciative, but I also know that its hard as
hell to shout it unless you have it hotkeyed, and theres so many better
things to have hotkeyed than a newbie warning.
In 6 months, when I'm level 30ish, I'll join you in getting that sword =)
Noslom
ka...@wwwaif.net wrote in message <7ohvun$t8_...@enews.newsguy.com>...
>In article <EIZq3.9889$m4.40...@news.magma.ca>, "Noslom"
><noslom<nospam543>@promaxis.com> wrote:
>>Hmmm. Hate to say it but your taking the lazy/whiner route
>>to this dungeon. I have found after a while that you can learn
>>how to pull only smaller sets of monsters and how to control
>>the fights well. If you always pull/train to zone you never aquire
>>these skills or knowledge.
>
>Have you ever been through the cave to the entrance of Castle Mistmoore? If
>so, please explain to me how you can 'pull only smaller sets of monsters',
let
>alone control the fight well.
Yes, there are a few spots in Mistmoore where one group can't clear
an area by themselves (unless they are so high they stopped getting exp
for them a long time ago.) For these areas we ask two or three groups
to join us in clearing the area. Sometimes (unfortunately rarely) the
high levels will help before proceding into the castle instead of
risking pulling a train, whish they would do this more often. I have
started to do the same, help lower level groups clear/start more
than the could on thier own before going in deeper. This also has
saved my bacon as coming out with stuff on us they are far more
likely to help and we also don't pull as much (stuff that would
normally be added to the train has already been cleared by them.)
Also if the groups can't coord very well alternating pulls and helping
the others when they get a bad one can help clear an area.
Help other groups clear them. I have pulled the couryard in sets of
about 4 to 6. Look at types and placement to get an idea what
else will come and most important look at the paths they take to
get to you. Some will if they are not attacked take a round about
route which then causes others they pass to join in. If attacked they
tend to take a more direct route. Also soothe/lull this one as you
pull the rest and you will get a more manageable number.
>>I have been very succesfull with a group slowly working our
>>way deeper into a dungeon in 'steps'. We clear an area and
>>then pull from a little deeper, a little deeper then once we
>>have control and have learned the area we move to
>>a deeper spot and repeat. You quickly realize how strong
>>a group needs to be for a given area. The next trip there
>>we start one posistion back from the first greens and start
>>again.
>
>This would work fine in the classic, twisty little passages dungeon, where
>what you see is pretty much what you get in terms of mobs (unless you let a
>runner escape). There are rooms inside the castle with as many as 20 mobs,
>casters, charmers and those that do nothing but hit HARD, all of which are
>aggro and *will* attack - and mob - on sight. Since the castle is so
>underused, there is rarely anyone hunting inside it, so it is at full spawn
>all the time.
If you clear on the way in you will have a base to pull back to. If you
attack
one and then mes the room you can sometimes have the others stay.
Help other groups learn areas you are past so they can keep them clear.
>The only way to travel in Mistmoore is to be invisible at all times except
>during a fight, due to aggro, swarmy greens. That is a problem in itself,
>since none of the tanking classes (except shadowknights and rogues) have
the
>invisio/camo/hide ability, so when one invisibility drops (without warning,
of
>course, despite the claims in the last patch that say it blinks), it leaves
>the party with the attractive choice of whether to risk rebuffing the
luckless
>now-visible party member or letting him die. You have about .5 seconds to
mull
>this over before something spots him. Happy hunting!
This is a draw back of that choice of tactics in mistmoore. Other tactics
that
require more work and thinking don't have the same problems.
>Time for a confession: I *have* explored the inside of the castle, as an
>invisible level 1 high elf enchanter. I *know* what's inside, and believe
me,
>it's *great*. It is a gorgeously designed, truly spooky place, and I think
it
>would provide exciting hunting for groups up to even the 40s ... *if* it
>hadn't been written off already by most of these levels as a deathtrap.
It's
>sort of a catch 22 situation; if the castle was cleared, or at least
>clearable, by less than three groups of high level players, it would be far
>easier to explore and pull from for the next wave of mid- to high-level
>players. But because the initial job is so daunting, 90% of the zone is
>unused.
Have to agree with you there. But there are some tactics that do
work for clearing large groups of monsters.
>>Sounds like you just want to walk in, kill mob x, and then
>>walk out with item y. When you are way over level for an
>>area this works. When you are borderline this strategy
>>will probably get you killed. Your also being a coward and
>>making the game rough for others - the pullling constant
>>trains to zone by lazy 30+ players in Mistmoore make it
>>a death trap to others. This gets even worse when they
>>don't even say a train is coming. Pulling a few trains
>>in a new area always happens, most of learn to live with
>>it but some of the morons pull train after train after train
>>with no warning as they are trying again and again to get
>>deep in and kill some monsters for a piece of kewl loot.
>
>Actually, he's *not* 'way over level' for this area; Mistmoore is a *high
>level* dungeon. Theoretically, you should be able to fight here - and get
>experience - until at least the lower 40s. *Everything* trains in
Mistmoore,
>from the little pledge familiars that hang out at the zone to the
>gypsy/werewolf/negotiator combo that comes out to greet interlopers to the
>castle. The only way to avoid trains in MM is to stick to the Graveyard, as
>far as I can tell. At least until the zone is better populated (with
players,
>that is, there are *quite* enough mobs as it is), it's an equal opportunity
>death trap, and trains are the punishment for any group that wants to move
>more than fifty feet from the zone.
From your good comments (thanks for taking the time for such
a good reply) the thing missing is good tactics on the part of
players to clear large groups of montsers at once. Mine seem to
work for the areas I have been in but of course may not work
deeper in where others say there is no way to do some of the rooms.
I guess we will just have to wait and see. I know I have died a lot while
developing these tactics so those who quickly zone and don't stay around
and watch HOW the monsters come out of thier areas probably will
never figure out a given area. And from my experience each area
is slightly different as to what paths the monsters take when attack
vs when not attacked.
>>As for exploring in Everquest being to rough I have to disagree.
>>With a decent group with the above mentioned method I have
>>been able to slowly explore lots of areas, a bad surprise will
>>get some of us killed but the penalty for death is not all that
>>much (I don't lose equipment which I did in a lot of muds.) Also
>>you gain tons of exp using the above method anyway so I
>>usually come out ahead. Some zones require a different
>>strategy which is a good thing - I like variety.
>>
>
>I look forward to your detailed guide on Surviving Mistmoore Without
Hugging
>the Zone. I'm sure the original poster is keenly awaiting it as well.
Believe
>me, I *want* to explore this zone, in my 'real skin' rather than as a
>throwaway character, because I know that it would great fun. Unfortunately,
>until it's more well-trodden turf, I'm not sure if it's possible.
Not sure if I want to give out all my hard earned tactics but I also only
know how to handle the large groups in only a few areas so far.
Each group is different and requires a different order/tactic to clear.
So to sum up :
1. two groups are better than one
2. stick around to see how the montsers come to you, does
one walk over in front of some others dragging them in?
Or worse stroll through the entire zone taking a really bizare
route to get to you?
3. Try to draw these 'walkers' directly to you by attacking
then directly.
4. Hopefully after a while you will see how the monsters are grouped
and which ones to attack first, which ones to lull/soothe in place while
you pull a nearer group
Noslom
Silverlock
Schlansky) wrote:
I pretty much agree with all of that save that I have tried every
Illusion spell I own at level 32 on the lesser stuff of Mistmoore and
the benevolence line and everything still scowls ready to attack.
I also used illusion Dark elf a long long time ago before I killed
thousands of them and they still hated me I think because of my
religion.
About the wizard and the part where someone who goes uninvis let them
die. He made that statement and you should have either challenged him
on it right then and there or taken your medicine like the cleric did.
Was the suggestion a tactically good one? If so then when your invis
failed you should have died and let the group stay invised.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
wrote:
[massive rant deleted]
|FINAL CONCLUSION 2: Quests are impossible unless you have overpowering numbers
|and experience. It would take a full group of 40's to clear that castle area. A
|full BALANCED group of 40's. And unless you clear it, you can't get in since
|invisibility is broken.
Trueshot Longbows are impossible to get?
Look, I want an EBW too. It's a good fast weapon, I like the
sword-and-dagger look, and I like the irony of a Ranger running around
dual-wielding Teir'dal weapons. But DAMNIT, do you expect them to hand it to
you? IT'S A KICKASS SWORD, OF COURSE IT'S HARD TO GET!
Actually this gives me new hope; the only spoiler I'd seen on the quest so
far was very clearly DE only.
|The $65,000 Question: Is this fun?
Like I said in my previous post.
Dennis F. Heffernan EQ: Venture (E'ci) dfra...@email.com
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"There's no easy way to be free."
-- Pete Townshend, "Slip Kid"
Twilight
<noslom<nospam543>@promaxis.com> wrote:
>Hmmm. Hate to say it but your taking the lazy/whiner route
>to this dungeon. I have found after a while that you can learn
>how to pull only smaller sets of monsters and how to control
>the fights well. If you always pull/train to zone you never aquire
>these skills or knowledge.
>
MM does not work that way. You cannot pull from the areas past the
graveyard which the poster is describing without attracting alot of
attention. ( soothe lull is not useful as the mobs have aa very high
resistance. ) Also the mobs are all very nasty spell casters who
becuase of verants mechanics can cast thru walls. so if a train starts
chances are you wont know it till the 400 points spells start hitting.
you need a full group of lvl 40s plus to clear that area. to move on.
In fact you will neeed 2 groups. Since you get pitiful xp , are you
gonna help someone lower lvl than you to do a quest? and you dont get
anything>? the poster describe what happens in EQ. Ppl dont have time,
inclination or even motivation to attempt such endevours. At that lvl
fear is more interesting place. And the items are worth the risk.. Is
MM worth it? with its over powered casters? NO it isnt.
Players go to MM at a certain lvl. they do the tower, graveyard .
courtyard and ignore the rest. Why? its a hellish place which can only
be tackled properly by very high lvl players who frankly dont get
anything from there... waste of time for most players. And if you are
fortunate to be in the company of players who are willing to do so ,
then you did be extremely lucky.Most players dont have that luxury.
the poster is very right in the problems of eq. The lower lvl players
suffer when the higher lvl players attempt such things. Shouting of
train doesnt help in MM either. the casters will kill any lower lvl
unless they camp at thh exit. something you say is cowardly. Imagine a
caster who hits for 50 points of damage and casts DD that hits for 400
points. tell me that some lvl 20 -30 shouldnt be at elast cautious.
>
>
>
>
"I can picture in my mind a world without war , a world without hate . And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it. " -Jack Handey
Sam Schlansky
<37aecbb1...@news.earthlink.net>:
>On 7 Aug 1999 07:42:09 -0500, s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam
>Schlansky) wrote:
>
>I pretty much agree with all of that save that I have tried every
>Illusion spell I own at level 32 on the lesser stuff of Mistmoore and
>the benevolence line and everything still scowls ready to attack.
>I also used illusion Dark elf a long long time ago before I killed
>thousands of them and they still hated me I think because of my
>religion.
Yeah, as an enchanter you definitely should have picked agnostic. Illusion
Drybone or Werewolf plus an alliance spell would work great if you were
agnostic.
>About the wizard and the part where someone who goes uninvis let them
>die. He made that statement and you should have either challenged him
>on it right then and there or taken your medicine like the cleric did.
>Was the suggestion a tactically good one? If so then when your invis
>failed you should have died and let the group stay invised.
Yes, the suggestion was a tactically good one. However, once everybody else in
the party uninvised to help me he should have evaced. Since they were all on
the rest of us, he probably could have gotten the spell off.
Sam
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Sam Schlansky
<37ace145.36454251@news>:
>On 7 Aug 1999 07:42:09 -0500, s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam
>Schlansky) wrote:
>
>
>[massive rant deleted]
>
>|FINAL CONCLUSION 2: Quests are impossible unless you have overpowering
>|numbers and experience. It would take a full group of 40's to clear
>|that castle area. A full BALANCED group of 40's. And unless you clear
>|it, you can't get in since invisibility is broken.
>
> Trueshot Longbows are impossible to get?
They are now, if you aren't a fletcher. Since the patch nobody (and I mean
NOBODY) sells them any more. Luckily I bought mine pre-patch.
> Look, I want an EBW too. It's a good fast weapon, I like the
>sword-and-dagger look, and I like the irony of a Ranger running around
>dual-wielding Teir'dal weapons. But DAMNIT, do you expect them to hand
>it to you? IT'S A KICKASS SWORD, OF COURSE IT'S HARD TO GET!
Sure its hard to get, but I had a full group of 35's to 40's in the zone
for like eight or nine hours and we ended up screwed. We didn't even get
ONE tooth.
>Actually this gives me new hope; the only spoiler I'd seen on the
>quest so far was very clearly DE only.
Yep, I saw that one too. That spoiler is _wrong_. Mine is right.
I especially enjoyed how all of the sites that just blindly copy from
Allakhazam posted it. Leeching bastards.
By the way... if you aren't a powergamer, what were you doing reading
spoiler sites? Hmmmmmmmm? :)
Sam
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Sam Schlansky
>Hmmm. Hate to say it but your taking the lazy/whiner route
>to this dungeon. I have found after a while that you can learn
>how to pull only smaller sets of monsters and how to control
>the fights well. If you always pull/train to zone you never aquire
>these skills or knowledge.
I disagree. The Electrum-bladed Wakizashi is a level 35 to 45 weapon and a
group that averaged 38 should be able to get it, or at least progress
somewhat in the quest. Our group POSSIBLY could have cleared the castle if
we had a skilled monk pulling, but we didn't.
>I have been very succesfull with a group slowly working our
>way deeper into a dungeon in 'steps'. We clear an area and
>then pull from a little deeper, a little deeper then once we
>have control and have learned the area we move to
>a deeper spot and repeat. You quickly realize how strong
>a group needs to be for a given area. The next trip there
>we start one posistion back from the first greens and start
>again.
Thats a great plan... but Mistmoore is an item dungeon, not an experience
dungeon. The monsters there are too hard for their level to get real
experience... they all cast spells and they all have damage shields. Cazic-
Thule, Lower Guk, and Solusek B are experience dungeons; Mistmoore just
isn't.
>Sounds like you just want to walk in, kill mob x, and then
>walk out with item y. When you are way over level for an
>area this works. When you are borderline this strategy
>will probably get you killed.
I don't think you quite get it. You aren't "way over level" for Castle
Mistmoore without a full group of 50's. The monsters inside the castle are
probably blue until level 47 or so, if I had to make a guess.
When I'm level 50, I'll be dualwielding Ykeshas... what use will I have for
an EBW?
>Your also being a coward and
>making the game rough for others - the pullling constant
>trains to zone by lazy 30+ players in Mistmoore make it
>a death trap to others.
Thats not my fault, it's Verants fault. Read my post again for the reasons
why.
>This gets even worse when they
>don't even say a train is coming. Pulling a few trains
>in a new area always happens, most of learn to live with
>it but some of the morons pull train after train after train
>with no warning as they are trying again and again to get
>deep in and kill some monsters for a piece of kewl loot.
We always warned. Newbies were fighting at the zone and didn't realize how
quickly they were going to die.
>As for exploring in Everquest being to rough I have to disagree.
>With a decent group with the above mentioned method I have
>been able to slowly explore lots of areas, a bad surprise will
>get some of us killed but the penalty for death is not all that
>much (I don't lose equipment which I did in a lot of muds.) Also
>you gain tons of exp using the above method anyway so I
>usually come out ahead. Some zones require a different
>strategy which is a good thing - I like variety.
I like variety too, thats the reason I tried the quest in the first place.
I quickly learned that I shouldn't leave Solusek B until everything was
green at level 50.
Sam
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Sam Schlansky
<7ohvun$t8_...@enews.newsguy.com>:
>In article <EIZq3.9889$m4.40...@news.magma.ca>, "Noslom"
><noslom<nospam543>@promaxis.com> wrote:
>>Hmmm. Hate to say it but your taking the lazy/whiner route
>>to this dungeon. I have found after a while that you can learn
>>how to pull only smaller sets of monsters and how to control
>>the fights well. If you always pull/train to zone you never aquire
>>these skills or knowledge.
(snip)
>Mistmoore is a fabulous dungeon, far and away my favourite in the game.
>(Not that I've visited too many other dungeons for longer than a few
>hours; I mostly hunted outdoors until level 30, and since then, I've
>been alternating between Unrest (crowded, camped but because of that,
>safe) and Mistmoore (an incredibly exhilirating deathtrap).
I agree... Mistmoore has great atmosphere and I betcha there are a lot more
items hidden away in there that nobody knows about... but if you're of the
level to get them, they're not worth the effort.
>That said,
>it is also one of the most woefully underused, and because the interior
>is pretty much unexplored/hunted territory, it would take a massive
>effort to clean out even the entrance way to allow for more exploration.
>
>Back to your suggestion: at the foot of the cave, which leads into the
>courtyard in front of the castle gates, there are approximately 8
>ancilles of varying types.
I can pull from the castle courtyard using harmony, usually only getting
two to three ancilles at a time. They're green, so harmony almost always
works.
>Between the courtyard and the castle door,
>there are probably a half dozen other mobs.
Yes, there are usually six mobs at the top of the ramp. Three of them can
be pulled to the bottom of the ramp, and the other three you rush. They're
usually green, so thats not a big deal.
>If you pull just one of
>these mobs, every single ancille, guard, deathly harbringer, deadly
>herald, gargoyle and gypsy will follow.
That HAS happened to me two or three times, but not recently. Mistmoore is
just a really buggy dungeon, thats all... that area isn't as bad as you
make it sound really.
>You *could* clear the entrance
>to the castle, but it would require at *least* two groups of upper 30s
>lower 40s to do it, and it would take a *long* time.
One group of 35's with a ranger or druid can clear the castle courtyard and
the top of the ramp without a terrible amount of trouble.
>And since the
>majority of these critters are probably green to upper 30s lower 40s
>players, they won't be getting any experience, which would rather
>discourage them from helping 'clear the castle' so that players of the
>appropriate level would be able to hunt in the courtyard.
Ancilles are green to me at level 40, and if I remember correctly they were
blue at 38.
>>I have been very succesfull with a group slowly working our
>>way deeper into a dungeon in 'steps'. We clear an area and
>>then pull from a little deeper, a little deeper then once we
>>have control and have learned the area we move to
>>a deeper spot and repeat. You quickly realize how strong
>>a group needs to be for a given area. The next trip there
>>we start one posistion back from the first greens and start
>>again.
>
>This would work fine in the classic, twisty little passages dungeon,
>where what you see is pretty much what you get in terms of mobs (unless
>you let a runner escape). There are rooms inside the castle with as
>many as 20 mobs, casters, charmers and those that do nothing but hit
>HARD, all of which are aggro and *will* attack - and mob - on sight.
>Since the castle is so underused, there is rarely anyone hunting inside
>it, so it is at full spawn all the time.
Yup, well said. LITERALLY twenty mobs.
>The only way to travel in Mistmoore is to be invisible at all times
>except during a fight, due to aggro, swarmy greens. That is a problem in
>itself, since none of the tanking classes (except shadowknights and
>rogues) have the invisio/camo/hide ability,
And Rangers...
>so when one invisibility
>drops (without warning, of course, despite the claims in the last patch
>that say it blinks), it leaves the party with the attractive choice of
>whether to risk rebuffing the luckless now-visible party member or
>letting him die. You have about .5 seconds to mull this over before
>something spots him. Happy hunting!
Thats about the gist of it.
>Time for a confession: I *have* explored the inside of the castle, as an
>invisible level 1 high elf enchanter.
Don't enchanters get invisibility at level 4?
(snip)
>>As for exploring in Everquest being to rough I have to disagree.
>>With a decent group with the above mentioned method I have
>>been able to slowly explore lots of areas, a bad surprise will
>>get some of us killed but the penalty for death is not all that
>>much (I don't lose equipment which I did in a lot of muds.) Also
>>you gain tons of exp using the above method anyway so I
>>usually come out ahead. Some zones require a different
>>strategy which is a good thing - I like variety.
>>
>I look forward to your detailed guide on Surviving Mistmoore Without
>Hugging the Zone. I'm sure the original poster is keenly awaiting it as
>well. Believe me, I *want* to explore this zone, in my 'real skin'
>rather than as a throwaway character, because I know that it would great
>fun. Unfortunately, until it's more well-trodden turf, I'm not sure if
>it's possible.
Yep. Mistmoore is pretty much a writeoff. Pity.
Sam
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Sam Schlansky
>this post was an interesting read, but it has made me rather sad. I have
>been coming to the conclusion in the last couple of months that this
>game is not for the casual gamer who has a couple of hours to spare in
>the evening. At least not the right game if you also want a chance to
>make level fifty and see some of the dungeons and interesting high level
>mobs, other then just the area near the zone line.
Yes, that was one of my major points. Unless you have a lot of time to
devote to the game IN BLOCKS (as in, 10 hours a day, not 2 hours over 5
days) you're pretty much screwed. Grouping is necessary, like-
leveled friends are necessary, and a large guild is necessary.
(snip: more of the same kind of thing)
>So reading a post such as yours is becoming a frustrating experience
>more and more, because I am beginning to realize, I wil never get
>there...
You can get to level 35 soloing and playing for short spurts of time, but
it won't be much fun and you'll never get any good items.
>Maybe I am wrong, I sure hope so, and will it still be possible to get
>to higher levels, by casual gaming..but it wont be possible by finding
>OTHER casual gamers, that is for sure.
'Tis true.
Sam
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Sam Schlansky
<7ohf10$qf5$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
>Sam Schlansky wrote in message
><8E1B5868D...@news1.newscene.com>...
>
><Lots of stuff snipped>
>
>>conclusion v) Green creatures SHOULD NEVER ATTACK. What the hell is the
>point
>>of being attacked by 1000 green creatures?
>
>I can see this being used on a limited basis for setting up a roleplay
>feel (i.e. temple guards giving their lives recklessly in defense of the
>temple or something), but it should be a rare area design, not a common
>one, as seems to be the case. :/
It was changed in a patch awhile ago... EVERY mob over level 20 WILL frenzy
when it sees you. Period. Level 50 clerics are being attacked by level 28
festering hags as we speak.
>>7) Our druid came back to the group, and the wizard wanted to attack
>>the "Cloaked Vampyre" nearby. This made me kind of nervous, since we
>>were only five people, and all of them were lower level than me. I didn't
>>want to do it until we had a full group, but he insisted.
>
>Doh, big warning sign here, this is my #1 red flag for a bad group:
>people in group can't figure out what mobs can and can't be done. I'm
>guessing a warning light was going off in your head too, but after
>spending all that effort to get there you didn't want to leave.
>Understandable, but I bet you were kicking yourself later over it.
>*comfort*
Don't forget the wizard was the "expert" on Mistmoore too. Sigh.
(snip)
>>FINAL CONCLUSION 1: Exploring is bad. It's bad because green creatures
>>will attack you and the only ways to avoid them are faulty. Exploring
>>is also bad because when you get too far from the zone line it just means
>>a more dangerous trip to retrieve your corpse where you WILL die. So,
>>don't explore.
>
>I said it before in another post, I'll repeat it here: EQ has the
>highest 'Fuck you and die' factor of any mud I've played. One of the
>many reasons I retired my warrior was because exploring with him was a
>death-fest, as 99% of your 'discoveries' in EQ are discovering that you
>can't/won't/shouldn't/mustn't/etc.
Exactly. In Everquest you learn through negative reinforcement. Negative
reinforcement pisses people off!
>>FINAL CONCLUSION 3: Being low level in a higher-level zone is bad. At
>>level 20 you should be in Unrest with the 82 others! Why are you in
>>Mistmoore? Bad bad bad level 20's... maybe 10 deaths over one hour will
>>teach you a lesson?
>
>I think whenever you hang out at the edge of a zone where the majority
>of mobs are much higher level than you, you have to take responsibility
>for that decision and not freak out if you get killed by a train. The
>only thing I ask for from the people leading that train to me would be
>for them to shout if possible to give me a chance to move away.
You don't understand how fast these level 20's died... some of the castle
monsters can cast spells, easily resisted by a level 40, that do over 400
points of damage. That's instant death for a lvl 20 wizard, three quarters
health for a priestly caster, and half health for a tank. They're NASTY.
And we always shouted train... they just didn't listen.
Sam
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Sam Schlansky
<D90r3.4242$5z4.2...@news.uswest.net>:
>Sam Schlansky <s...@deletethis.operation3d.com> wrote in message
>news:8E1B5868D...@news1.newscene.com...
>> FINAL CONCLUSION 3: Being low level in a higher-level zone is bad. At
>>level 20 you should be in Unrest with the 82 others! Why are you in
>>Mistmoore? Bad bad bad level 20's... maybe 10 deaths over one hour will
>>teach you a lesson?
>
>I play in Mistmoore, and have since level 19. Whenever a high level
>group pulls a huge train and everyones resting outside, theres no
>hostility in my mind. I', a plebe yanking yardtrash in a very dangerous
>place. I usually commend them for their artistic pull. IE, Wow, great
>train, thats at least a 7, nice vampire, killed my bud in one blast...
You don't get upset when you're continuously trained? Well, thats mighty
nice of you... :)
>That and I know that trains are the only way I'm going to ever see whats
>deeper because I work and don't have the time to level to 50 in two
>months.
>
>Anyway, I accept the fact that I'm a light green in a deep red zone and
>when people do yell train, i am appreciative, but I also know that its
>hard as hell to shout it unless you have it hotkeyed, and theres so many
>better things to have hotkeyed than a newbie warning.
There's no excuse for not shouting a train warning. If you're going to
escape, you have enough time to manually type "/shout train to zone". If
you're not going to escape, well, they're not MAKING it to the zone, are
they? :)
>In 6 months, when I'm level 30ish, I'll join you in getting that sword
>=)
I doubt it. In six months I'll either have quit or be dualwielding Ykeshas
or better. Probably quit by then.
Sam
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Stupid
>So reading a post such as yours is becoming a frustrating experience more
>and more, because I am beginning to realize, I wil never get there...
>
>Maybe I am wrong, I sure hope so, and will it still be possible to get to
>higher levels, by casual gaming..but it wont be possible by finding OTHER
>casual gamers, that is for sure.
I'm in the same boat. I've been playing my primary character (Troll
Shaman) since Beta IV, and I'm only level 15 now. I'm a grouping
creature, and as a low level shaman basically suck at solo play
(kiting is just not my thing). I find a really good group that works
well with my style and have a GREAT time... for about a week. Then
they out-level me by five, six, seven levels and I have to find a new
group. After two weeks of excrutating, horrible, hatefull play, I
stumble across another "good" group and the cycle begins anew.
I compare it to playing Golf. You hit 99 hooks into the water or
slices into the sandtrap. And then when you hit that one perfect shot
straight down the fairway and you say "THIS is why I play!" And,
oddly enough, it is worth it.
Silverlock
Schlansky) wrote:
>cro...@earthlink.net (Silverlock) wrote in
><37aecbb1...@news.earthlink.net>:
>
>>On 7 Aug 1999 07:42:09 -0500, s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam
>>Schlansky) wrote:
>>
>>I pretty much agree with all of that save that I have tried every
>>Illusion spell I own at level 32 on the lesser stuff of Mistmoore and
>>the benevolence line and everything still scowls ready to attack.
>>I also used illusion Dark elf a long long time ago before I killed
>>thousands of them and they still hated me I think because of my
>>religion.
>
>Yeah, as an enchanter you definitely should have picked agnostic. Illusion
>Drybone or Werewolf plus an alliance spell would work great if you were
>agnostic.
>
Yeah Verant however never told any of us that the Illusions would be
compromised by choosing a religion that from my point of view I have
never seen a benefit too having.
>>About the wizard and the part where someone who goes uninvis let them
>>die. He made that statement and you should have either challenged him
>>on it right then and there or taken your medicine like the cleric did.
>>Was the suggestion a tactically good one? If so then when your invis
>>failed you should have died and let the group stay invised.
>
>Yes, the suggestion was a tactically good one. However, once everybody else in
>the party uninvised to help me he should have evaced. Since they were all on
>the rest of us, he probably could have gotten the spell off.
>
>Sam
Agreed.
BlondeFury
> blond...@omg-wtf.com (BlondeFury) wrote in
> <D90r3.4242$5z4.2...@news.uswest.net>:
>
> >Sam Schlansky <s...@deletethis.operation3d.com> wrote in message
> >news:8E1B5868D...@news1.newscene.com...
> >>level 20 you should be in Unrest with the 82 others! Why are you in
> >>Mistmoore? Bad bad bad level 20's... maybe 10 deaths over one hour will
> >>teach you a lesson?
> >
> >group pulls a huge train and everyones resting outside, theres no
> >hostility in my mind. I', a plebe yanking yardtrash in a very dangerous
> >place. I usually commend them for their artistic pull. IE, Wow, great
> >train, thats at least a 7, nice vampire, killed my bud in one blast...
>
> You don't get upset when you're continuously trained? Well, thats mighty
> nice of you... :)
Well, I wasn't estactic about it, but when i enter MM I understand the risks
I'm taking. Know what tho? I die a hella lot less from high level trains in
MM than from normal trains in Unrest. Thats why I'm there, Unrest is just
insane usually. You have to have invis vs Undead just to zone IN because of
the perpetual zone train. MM, if a level 30 shouts zone, theres always some
Yahoo in my group who says 'Hey! Lets go and pull one off the train!' I say
sure, I'll meet you on the other side of the zone when you come back to
retrieve your corpse. These aren't orcs and gnolls we are dealing with
here. Level 30+ group shouts Train, I'm out that zone without looking back.
If THEY couldn't handle it, I sure as hell can't.
>
> >That and I know that trains are the only way I'm going to ever see whats
> >deeper because I work and don't have the time to level to 50 in two
> >months.
> >
> >Anyway, I accept the fact that I'm a light green in a deep red zone and
> >when people do yell train, i am appreciative, but I also know that its
> >hard as hell to shout it unless you have it hotkeyed, and theres so many
> >better things to have hotkeyed than a newbie warning.
>
> There's no excuse for not shouting a train warning. If you're going to
> escape, you have enough time to manually type "/shout train to zone". If
> you're not going to escape, well, they're not MAKING it to the zone, are
> they? :)
>
Aye, it should be easy, but I know that running down passages, opening
doors, jumping etc all make it really difficult if not impossible to type.
> >In 6 months, when I'm level 30ish, I'll join you in getting that sword
> >=)
>
> I doubt it. In six months I'll either have quit or be dualwielding Ykeshas
> or better. Probably quit by then.
>
> Sam
I was being facetious...
Dennis Heffernan
> dfra...@email.com (Dennis Francis Heffernan) wrote in
> <37ace145.36454251@news>:
>
> They are now, if you aren't a fletcher. Since the patch nobody (and I mean
> NOBODY) sells them any more. Luckily I bought mine pre-patch.
You say that like it was a bad thing.
Personally I wish they'd made the bow itself NoTwink instead of just the
items needed to make it. (The Treat Wood Bowstave isn't NoTwink, as it
happens.) But I'm quite happy that any Trueshots that come along from now on
will most likely be in the hands of people who EARNED them.
And yes, I made mine.
> Sure its hard to get, but I had a full group of 35's to 40's in the zone
> for like eight or nine hours and we ended up screwed. We didn't even get
> ONE tooth.
Well, some days you eat the bear, and some days the bear eats you.
> Yep, I saw that one too. That spoiler is _wrong_. Mine is right.
Just curious: have you/your friends verified that the other spoiler doesn't
work? It wouldn't surprise me if there were two different ways to get the
weapon.
> By the way... if you aren't a powergamer, what were you doing reading
> spoiler sites? Hmmmmmmmm? :)
Seeing what I want to buy next, of course.
--
Sam Schlansky
<37AFA6B0...@email.com>:
>Sam Schlansky wrote:
>
>> dfra...@email.com (Dennis Francis Heffernan) wrote in
>> <37ace145.36454251@news>:
>> > Trueshot Longbows are impossible to get?
>>
>> They are now, if you aren't a fletcher. Since the patch nobody (and I
>> mean NOBODY) sells them any more. Luckily I bought mine pre-patch.
>
> You say that like it was a bad thing.
Not exactly, see below...
>
> Personally I wish they'd made the bow itself NoTwink instead of
> just the
>items needed to make it. (The Treat Wood Bowstave isn't NoTwink, as it
>happens.) But I'm quite happy that any Trueshots that come along from
>now on will most likely be in the hands of people who EARNED them.
The quest should result in one no-drop lore Trueshot longbow. NOT a treant
stave that _requires_ a fletching skill of _well_ over 100... I've seen stories
of people failing with a 140 skill, which is incredibly expensive in both time
and platinum to achieve. And yes, I _did_ do the Trueshot quest... when I was
level 9-- the level at which it was appropriate.
> And yes, I made mine.
Good for you! Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic here... I'm happy for people
that enjoy fletching and made their own Trueshot. I'm just not one of those
people.
>> Sure its hard to get, but I had a full group of 35's to 40's in the
>> zone for like eight or nine hours and we ended up screwed. We didn't
>> even get ONE tooth.
>
> Well, some days you eat the bear, and some days the bear eats you.
Either one ought to be fun. Everquest is a game, remember?
>> Yep, I saw that one too. That spoiler is _wrong_. Mine is right.
>
> Just curious: have you/your friends verified that the other spoiler
> doesn't
>work? It wouldn't surprise me if there were two different ways to get
>the weapon.
Yes, plenty of people have tried giving Arlena's lute to Grimrot, and all you
get is some xp, faction, and gold, not a blackened blade hilt. Whoever thought
up that quest on Allakhazam's had a great imagination.
>> By the way... if you aren't a powergamer, what were you doing reading
>> spoiler sites? Hmmmmmmmm? :)
>
> Seeing what I want to buy next, of course.
I thought you wanted to get all of your equipment by fighting for it? Oh, I
forgot, you don't camp... so how can you afford anything if you don't group and
don't camp? You're going to be level 50 in full blackened iron dualwielding
combine scimitars...
Sam
--
/| Sam Schlansky <sam[at]operation3d[dot]com>
/| PGP Key ID: 0x63A9D707
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/| 3DHardware.net: Taking Your Machine To The Third Dimension!
Kyle
>FINAL CONCLUSION 3: Being low level in a higher-level zone is bad. At level 20
>you should be in Unrest with the 82 others! Why are you in Mistmoore? Bad bad
>bad level 20's... maybe 10 deaths over one hour will teach you a lesson?
Actually the problem is here, that if you cannot fight your way into
the zone, it is over your head and you are just as much of a newbie
there as they are. At level 28 anything up to the graveyard is green
or blue and even in the secret entrance off of the GY, things are
blue/white and occasionally yellow. Maybe 10 trains in an hour should
have convinced you that you were in over your head, and needed to go
level because you could not handle what you were attempting to. Zones
cannot be rated by their most difficult monsters, if you do that than
90% of most zones are green to those playing there.
Basically your just an inconsiderate bastard, who cares only for
yourself.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
wrote:
|The quest should result in one no-drop lore Trueshot longbow. NOT a treant
Way, way, WAY too easy a quest for a weapon of such power. Back when the
game started L1 characters were running it. If it is true that wimpy
Clockworks in the Gnome starting area still drop Micro Servers, then they
still can (although they'll level getting the Mirco Servers).
|stave that _requires_ a fletching skill of _well_ over 100... I've seen stories
|of people failing with a 140 skill, which is incredibly expensive in both time
Skill 112 when I made it. A 110 reported making it on EQRangers a few
hours before I did. Lowest skill I've heard of was 68 but that was a FOAF
story I don't believe.
|Good for you! Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic here... I'm happy for people
|that enjoy fletching and made their own Trueshot. I'm just not one of those
|people.
Well, then you shouldn't get one. At least not off that quest.
|Either one ought to be fun. Everquest is a game, remember?
If you're the kind of person who only enjoys the destination and not the
journey, then you're not going to enjoy large portions of the game and there's
nothing they can do about it.
|Yes, plenty of people have tried giving Arlena's lute to Grimrot, and all you
|get is some xp, faction, and gold, not a blackened blade hilt. Whoever thought
|up that quest on Allakhazam's had a great imagination.
Good to know.
|I thought you wanted to get all of your equipment by fighting for it?
Earning it, anyway. I have no compunction against buying it, so long as I
earned the money.
|Oh, I forgot, you don't camp...
That's right, though I admit that hunting Gnoll/Undead Reavers in EK is
pretty close since their spawn area is so limited.
|so how can you afford anything if you don't group and don't camp?
I ask the Wisps for more funding.
"Venture is made possible by a grant from the West Commonlands Wisp
Association. WCWA: Lighting Norrath...whatever the cost!"
I currently have about ninety platinum in the bank, and I'm carrying a
pair bows I expect to sell for forty each, plus the Reavers are good for a few
platinum every run. Obviously I won't be buying anything spectacular any time
soon, but I manage. With a few exceptions (I want a Flowing Black Silk Sash,
but who doesn't, and they're not for sale anyway) I have modest tastes.
|You're going to be level 50 in full blackened iron dualwielding Combine scimitars...
Blackened Iron anyway, given how dorky the rest of the armor looks.
Dennis F. Heffernan EQ: Venture Fletcher(E'ci) dfra...@email.com
Sam Schlansky
>On 10 Aug 1999 01:17:05 -0500, s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam
>Schlansky) wrote:
>
>|The quest should result in one no-drop lore Trueshot longbow. NOT a
>|treant
>
> Way, way, WAY too easy a quest for a weapon of such power. Back
> when the
>game started L1 characters were running it. If it is true that wimpy
>Clockworks in the Gnome starting area still drop Micro Servers, then
>they still can (although they'll level getting the Mirco Servers).
Hmm. Good point. Then the quest shouldn't be given until you're level 20.
Easy enough to fix.
>|stave that _requires_ a fletching skill of _well_ over 100... I've seen
>|stories of people failing with a 140 skill, which is incredibly
>|expensive in both time
>
> Skill 112 when I made it. A 110 reported making it on EQRangers a
> few
>hours before I did. Lowest skill I've heard of was 68 but that was a
>FOAF story I don't believe.
How long and how much did it cost you to get your skill up to 112? Keep in
mind that I've seen LOTS of reports of failure before skill 130 or so...
>|Good for you! Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic here... I'm happy for
>|people that enjoy fletching and made their own Trueshot. I'm just not
>|one of those people.
>
> Well, then you shouldn't get one. At least not off that quest.
And I wouldn't have. I would have just stuck with my bought-and-paid-for
darkwood shaped cammed bow, which cost me 475 plat and has better stats
anyway.
>|Either one ought to be fun. Everquest is a game, remember?
>
> If you're the kind of person who only enjoys the destination and
> not the
>journey, then you're not going to enjoy large portions of the game and
>there's nothing they can do about it.
I realize that you enjoy fletching, and I respect that. No need to start
with your "enjoy the destination and not the journey" bullshit, okay?
Sam
--
/| Sam Schlansky <sam[at]operation3d[dot]com>
/| PGP Key ID: 0x63A9D707
/| 3DNews.net: News With Perspective!
/| 3DHardware.net: Taking Your Machine To The Third Dimension!
Sam Schlansky
>>FINAL CONCLUSION 3: Being low level in a higher-level zone is bad. At
>>level 20 you should be in Unrest with the 82 others! Why are you in
>>Mistmoore? Bad bad bad level 20's... maybe 10 deaths over one hour will
>>teach you a lesson?
>
>
>Actually the problem is here, that if you cannot fight your way into
>the zone, it is over your head and you are just as much of a newbie
>there as they are. At level 28 anything up to the graveyard is green
>or blue and even in the secret entrance off of the GY, things are
>blue/white and occasionally yellow. Maybe 10 trains in an hour should
>have convinced you that you were in over your head, and needed to go
>level because you could not handle what you were attempting to. Zones
>cannot be rated by their most difficult monsters, if you do that than
>90% of most zones are green to those playing there.
>
>Basically your just an inconsiderate bastard, who cares only for
>yourself.
Yeah? Your mom is a dirty whore.
I don't think you actually read the original post. I had a full group of 36
to 40's in there. That OUGHT to be sufficient.
If we were a full group of 45's, we could have gotten Ykesha swords and
forgotten about all of the mistmoore crap. So, a level 40 group is just
about right for it.
IF THE QUEST IS NOT DOABLE BY LEVEL 40'S THEN NOBODY WILL _EVER_ DO IT.
Sam
--
/| Sam Schlansky <sam[at]operation3d[dot]com>
/| PGP Key ID: 0x63A9D707
/| 3DNews.net: News With Perspective!
/| 3DHardware.net: Taking Your Machine To The Third Dimension!
Dennis Francis Heffernan
wrote:
|dfra...@email.com (Dennis Francis Heffernan) wrote in
|<37b8d30f.360544700@news>:
|
|>On 10 Aug 1999 01:17:05 -0500, s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam
|>Schlansky) wrote:
|>
|>|The quest should result in one no-drop lore Trueshot longbow. NOT a
|>|treant
|>
|> Way, way, WAY too easy a quest for a weapon of such power. Back
|> when the
|>game started L1 characters were running it. If it is true that wimpy
|>Clockworks in the Gnome starting area still drop Micro Servers, then
|>they still can (although they'll level getting the Mirco Servers).
|
|Hmm. Good point. Then the quest shouldn't be given until you're level 20.
|Easy enough to fix.
It would have to be a completely different quest, wouldn't it now?
|How long and how much did it cost you to get your skill up to 112?
Not all that long; I went for Fletching sessions once a week or so. And
while it was expensive it was less than your Shaped Darkwood Compound.
|And I wouldn't have. I would have just stuck with my bought-and-paid-for
|darkwood shaped cammed bow, which cost me 475 plat and has better stats
|anyway.
You got a bargain. And as for better stats, it's one point of damage and
fifty yards of range...certainly not worth holding out for.
|I realize that you enjoy fletching, and I respect that. No need to start
|with your "enjoy the destination and not the journey" bullshit, okay?
Wasn't talking about Fletching; was talking about the idea that a quest
can't be enjoyed unless you win the prize at the end.