Shield or 2HWeapon? (for a Magic User)
Travis
to worry about what my next purchase will be.
Up to now, I have used 1HBlunt weapons and carried a shield. I have a
MorningStar and a ShinyBrassShield. I like the combination. However,
it seems that to advance I might have to go to 2HBlunt weapons.
I'm wondering what everyone's ideas are here. I definitely understand
the need to do more damage. But as a spell caster, maybe the extra AC
is what I need most, in order so my spells get interrupted less?
Also, I know of many magical 2H weapons I can seek out, but what about
1H ones? Is there a one-handed weapon I can get that will allow me to
hit magical enemies?
Travis
dstephen
I'd continue doing both.
I guess a shinybrassShield is nice?
What you should do is get a cheapo worn great staff.
Try to get 2 hand up by adding points to it and fighting blue
stuff.
when it is high, maybe buy a 2 hand hammer, that is a pretty good
damage weap but not magic. Save up enough for a 2 hand hammer
then buy a runed staff, hits magic
or a Crook hits magic,
when you have enough for the hammer (does not hit maigic)
maybe 30 plat, if someone is auctioning a runed staff or crook
With 2 hand you may end up with 2 weapons, like the crook, or
runed staff to hit magic, and possibly something like the ogre
maul that does 17 damage and 50 speed.. for non magic. This
thing deals devestating blows.
If you want a one hand magic, there are combine maces..
maybe 60 plat?
The screaming mace, a quest for dwarves, hits magic and
does a yaulp sometimes.
You may want to continue using one hand. My experience with 2 hand
is that my barbarian shaman at level 16 or so just does not
hit anywhere near as much as a warrior... she does maybe 19 damage
max with her runed staff, shed do 24 damage max or so with the
Crook, 27 damage max with 2 hand hammer (dont have since no money
right now..later might use it when not hitting magic only)
would do about 34 damage with the ogre maul (like I'd ever get one..
heh heh) But as I said, since you start not hitting that great
on things your level as a shaman... maybe a good one hand weapon
and a good shield is better? I dont know.
I know that eventually in battle a shaman or cleric never
really fights, they heal all the time and med. I guess its
a choice of what works best for you.. best deal would
probably be buying the 2 hand hammer when your 2 hand is
up, beating some stuff down, seeing if you like the extra
damage, then deciding where to go.
You can always sell the 2 hand hammer back at a loss later.
--
Bob
K. Laisathit
Travis <tra...@jgwfunding.com> wrote:
>
>I'm wondering what everyone's ideas are here. I definitely understand
>the need to do more damage. But as a spell caster, maybe the extra AC
>is what I need most, in order so my spells get interrupted less?
That's what my druid is using too. After teen levels, I don't think
your melee damage is what the party needs. Extra AC, OTOH, allows
you to cast more with less interruption.
>Also, I know of many magical 2H weapons I can seek out, but what about
>1H ones? Is there a one-handed weapon I can get that will allow me to
>hit magical enemies?
There is the screaming mace. Probably the only good magic 1H blunt
that doesn't entail searching the hell over. Alternatively, a
combine morning star can be had in Lavastorm.
Later...
Remus Shepherd
> Hello! I play a Barbarian Shaman, and I am now of a high enough level
> to worry about what my next purchase will be.
> Up to now, I have used 1HBlunt weapons and carried a shield. I have a
> MorningStar and a ShinyBrassShield. I like the combination. However,
> it seems that to advance I might have to go to 2HBlunt weapons.
> I'm wondering what everyone's ideas are here. I definitely understand
> the need to do more damage. But as a spell caster, maybe the extra AC
> is what I need most, in order so my spells get interrupted less?
I want to point out something about 2 handed weapons. They do more
damage than 1 handed *per blow*, but their slower speed usually compensates
for that. Thus, a 10 damage 40 delay halberd is exactly equivalent to a
6 damage 24 delay longsword, over time.
Choose your weapons based on their damage:delay ratio. Rusty weapons
are usually 1:7, normal steel is usually 1:5, and magic ones usually start
at 1:4 and get better from there. But you're not doing any extra damage
by using a 2-handed weapon; you're just hitting the mob hard a few times
instead of nicking it to death in the same amount of time.
... ...
Remus Shepherd (re...@netcom.com)
bob
>Travis <tra...@jgwfunding.com> wrote:
2 hand weapon wanting cut
>
> I want to point out something about 2 handed weapons. They do more
>damage than 1 handed *per blow*, but their slower speed usually compensates
>for that. Thus, a 10 damage 40 delay halberd is exactly equivalent to a
>6 damage 24 delay longsword, over time.
No, this is not true at all. You have to do ratio. Its
odd you say this then talk about ratio below. Oh I see,
you cite halbard stats based upon the rusty halbard
but it looks like you use the regular longsword as a comparison?
Wait actually a longsword is 29 speed and 6 damage i think.
>
> Choose your weapons based on their damage:delay ratio. Rusty weapons
>are usually 1:7, normal steel is usually 1:5, and magic ones usually start
>at 1:4 and get better from there. But you're not doing any extra damage
>by using a 2-handed weapon; you're just hitting the mob hard a few times
>instead of nicking it to death in the same amount of time.
>
>... ...
>Remus Shepherd (re...@netcom.com)
No, thats totally wrong.
You are doing a ton extra damage.
You have to use the ratio,
A one speed, one damage weapon would
be the best weapon in the game (of course 2 damage one speed would be
better, hee hee)
You divide the speed by the damage, lowest number is best:
So a one damage one speed weapon is a one ratio(doesnt exit of course)
Here is a quick run down of some weapons:
Regular store bought halbard THE BEST store bought weapon for damage ratio.
It is:
14 damage, 50 speed which equals a:
3.57 damage ratio.
Regular store bought long sword, is not the best at all:
29 speed 6 damage longsword which equals a:
4.83 damage ratio
The slower 2 handed hammer (best weapon for a shaman that is regular store
bought):
13 damage 51 speed which equals a:
3.92 damage to speed ratio.
Lets compare some non store weapons:
Ogre Maul, a devestating 2 hander:
17 damage 50 speed.
2.92 speed to damage ratio, now THAT is a great ratio.
Runed Staff, Plus 5 mana, plus 5 hp and hits magic
9 damage 37 speed:
4.11 speed to damage ratio.
So a shaman using this would do more damage actually
with the non magic 2 hand hammer above, but would not
be hitting a magic creature or gaining 5 hp and 5 mana
For comparison as to why these ratios are better if
lower, take a very bad weapon... like a rusty axe
6 damage 42 speed:
7 speed to damage ratio, now thats bad.
You can see from that the speed of the halbard which
makes you think its slower, is deceiving. Well yeah,
it is slower but the longsword is up to 12 damage
upon hitting, the halbard is up to 28.
So do the math, its TWICE the damage, but NOT
twice the speed. You attack slower but
not twice as slow, and hit for twice as much.
Battles start to last a long time, so
you are doing more damage and against
weaker critters with the big weapon you
can kill them or have them running in one hit.
Simple division shows you instantly how
good a weapon is.
PLUS the market value in a store will show you too,
do the math, get the ratios, look at prices in the
store. You will see that the best weapon the
halbard is the expensive followed by the
second best, the 2 handed great axe, followed
by the next in the ratio ( I forget here, either
2 handed sword or 2 handed hammer) followed by..
some other ones, you'll see that the Bastard
sword and long sword are too odd ones, bastard
is 2 more damage but slower making the ratios
almost identical I think long sword was 4.83
ratio and bastard is 4.87. That is one of the
few cases where the weapon that appears more
damage, the bastard sword, is really .04 ratio
worse! They both cost the exact same amount to
reflect how close they are.
After reading this you can say to someone
"no that store bought bastard sword is
actually worse than my longsword"
they will have trouble understanding that
and keep going "no but it does more damage,
long sword is 6 and this is more...
A freaky example of this ratio this is froon's toy;
Youd think being 70 speed and 24 damage that
froons toy is too slow to use,
BUT
24 damage and 70 speed gives you:
A 2.91 speed damage ratio
Thats one better than the ogre maul even!!!!
.01 (ehehe!)
I think froons hit magic only too, while the ogre
maul does not.
You might say "oh but its still too slow"
no, its not since when you could get it,
you'd be fighting fights that last one heck
of a long time. If you've ever seen anyone
fight sand giants or hill giants, you best
pack a lunch. That 70 speed really is not
slow when the battle is going to last a long time.
It feels real good for that shaman or warrior
to be doing 50 damage a wack too (with bonuses for
being higher level.. even more soon) On lesser
creatures you hit them once or twice and they are
running.
Its the SPEED VS DAMAGE RATIO, that is important,
not the damage itself. For the most part though
the bigger damage weapons DO HAVE the best
ratio, making them the best. Some of them
are so good even that using them 2 hand
a fighter does more damage than with dual wield.
Again, if a one damage weapon, was one speed, it
would be the best weapon in the game.
--
bob
Phil
bob wrote:
> On Tue, 4 May 1999 21:14:35 GMT, Remus Shepherd <re...@netcom.com> wrote:
> >Travis <tra...@jgwfunding.com> wrote:
>
> 2 hand weapon wanting cut
>
> >
> > I want to point out something about 2 handed weapons. They do more
> >damage than 1 handed *per blow*, but their slower speed usually compensates
> >for that. Thus, a 10 damage 40 delay halberd is exactly equivalent to a
> >6 damage 24 delay longsword, over time.
>
> No, this is not true at all. You have to do ratio. Its
> odd you say this then talk about ratio below.
(snip the rest)
I pretty much agree with your ratio analysis except for the bit above. A 10/40
weapon has the same ratio as a 6/24 weapon, so why aren't they doing the same
damage in the long run?
The difference for me is that the 6/24 disrupts spellcasters more often than the
10/40, and improves your weapon and attack skills faster.
Phil
D. Bingham Brown
Phil wrote in message <3730AD4C...@NOSPAMnorthrock.bm>...
>I pretty much agree with your ratio analysis except for the bit above. A
10/40
>weapon has the same ratio as a 6/24 weapon, so why aren't they doing the
same
>damage in the long run?
>
>The difference for me is that the 6/24 disrupts spellcasters more often
than the
>10/40, and improves your weapon and attack skills faster.
>
>Phil
Also, pre-level 20 at least, you should add 0.5 to all of the damage
values since the max damage isn't 2 x damage, but (2 x damage) + 1.
Using Dam/Speed (I prefer calculating it that way instead of the other
way around), the 1 dam, 1 delay weapon (which does a max of 3 damage
per hit), is 1.500, compared to the the longsword's 0.224 and the
Halbard's 0.290. This gives a slight advantage to the faster weapons.
I wonder how the strength bonuses at higher levels are scaled to damage...
Faster weapons do disrupt damage better, but that and the +0.5 effective
damage are offset by other things; for instance, rogues get an extra
attack (backstab -- even if not behind the enemy, it generates an extra
attack when used) which has a constant speed but damage based on the
weapon used.
Can any ogres/trolls/barbarians vouch for Slam doing more or the same
damage with bigger two-handed weapons?
Lowinor of Tunare
Me, I want a dam 50, delay 2000 weapon. Never get to swing it in combat,
but oy the backstabs!
K. Laisathit
D. Bingham Brown <dbr...@stny.lrun.com> wrote:
>
>Can any ogres/trolls/barbarians vouch for Slam doing more or the same
>damage with bigger two-handed weapons?
You're thinking of bash, the ability available to warriors,
paladins, and shadowknights. I think slam does a fixed 1
point damage plus stun. Bash, OTOH, seems to do increasing
damage according to your level/skill. You're required to
carry shield, hence I doubt weapon use has anything to do
with the damage.
Later...
D. Bingham Brown
K. Laisathit wrote in message <7gqedv$5em$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>...
Oh, I was under the impression that slam did more damage if you
had something in your offhand when you slammed; I've only done
1 point with it, but the largest thing in my off-hand I've used
it with was a torch... I had heard that wielding a magical
two-handed let you slam magic-only creatures and figured that
the weapon might otherwise be taken into account...
Sorry for any misinformation.
Lowinor of Tunare
Scrub
still get the message that says they're invincible
Ahmni
>
>Oh, I was under the impression that slam did more damage if you
>had something in your offhand when you slammed; I've only done
>1 point with it, but the largest thing in my off-hand I've used
>it with was a torch... I had heard that wielding a magical
>two-handed let you slam magic-only creatures and figured that
>the weapon might otherwise be taken into account...
>
>Sorry for any misinformation.
>
>Lowinor of Tunare
>
>
--------------------------------------------------
People seem to think this is the future. It seems
more to me like the dark age of enlightenment.
ICQ 563116 sc...@cmpmail.com http://www.pdx.nu
Remus Shepherd
> On Tue, 4 May 1999 21:14:35 GMT, Remus Shepherd <re...@netcom.com> wrote:
> > I want to point out something about 2 handed weapons. They do more
> >damage than 1 handed *per blow*, but their slower speed usually compensates
> >for that. Thus, a 10 damage 40 delay halberd is exactly equivalent to a
> >6 damage 24 delay longsword, over time.
> No, this is not true at all. You have to do ratio. Its
> odd you say this then talk about ratio below. Oh I see,
> you cite halbard stats based upon the rusty halbard
> but it looks like you use the regular longsword as a comparison?
> Wait actually a longsword is 29 speed and 6 damage i think.
I just wrote down some numbers to prove a point. I do not know off the
top of my head what the stats are for various weapons.
> > Choose your weapons based on their damage:delay ratio. Rusty weapons
> >are usually 1:7, normal steel is usually 1:5, and magic ones usually start
> >at 1:4 and get better from there. But you're not doing any extra damage
> >by using a 2-handed weapon; you're just hitting the mob hard a few times
> >instead of nicking it to death in the same amount of time.
> Its the SPEED VS DAMAGE RATIO, that is important,
> not the damage itself. For the most part though
> the bigger damage weapons DO HAVE the best
> ratio, making them the best. Some of them
> are so good even that using them 2 hand
> a fighter does more damage than with dual wield.
I think that's exactly what I said. Re-read what I wrote.