Please show me meaning in my wizard
Ulryk
envy. I do not deny that both of these contribute to how I feel, but I am
not going to go either of those routes. I just would like a high level
wizard to tell me there is light at the end of the tunnel. I am losing
confidence in my wizard. nobody wants to think their class is useless, yet
in light of recent mage pet changes (and even before), and the level I am at
(25th) it just seems like I really have nothing to contribute to a party.
Mages do very close to the amount of damage as I do (23rd mage was bolting
for 152, while I was hitting for 172 non-bolt) In a party they have not only
similar DD as mentioned but Damage shields, and all that conjuring stuff.
They also have a solo career, that is at best a difficult path for a Wizard.
That being said, this post isn't about whining about it. It's just the way
things go. Everyone says some classes can solo others can't, besides I
prefer the fun and friendship of groups over soloing anyway.
Just please, tell me there is something for me. Tell me that later on the
Wizard will be asked to group. That my character has a future. I'm not
trying to take anything away from anybody, I'm just becoming a bit
disillusioned by my class. I know each class has a weak zone. A point in
which they aren't up to their full potential. Is that what I am
experiencing?
I don't want to be better than anyone else, and I don't care if they are
better than me, just as long as I can have a valuable area in which I can
excel and be a worthy addition to a party. Considering EQ is a group
oriented multiplayer game, I don't think that is too much to ask.
Please help me to see.
Mork
be a Wizard, Warrior, Cleric or Enchanter.
Mage would be ok except for shitty pathing and no evac/gate spells.
I never turn down a Wiz for my groups.
"Ulryk" <NetW...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:uicJOISc$GA.221@cpmsnbbsa04...
Kevlar
Keep going, group gates will make grouping much easier for you. As
if it isn't already. You can already gate to every continent and look for
a group in the best spots. No one wants a wiz in south karana? Pop
over to unrest and check in there. No luck, its a short run through lesser
faydark to Mistmoor, always people looking for help there. Just because
one or two classes pull close to you every now and again, no one will
ever be better than you at direct damage. Think about us poor druids,
stuck from 19-29 with a cheesy 99 point careless lightning or a slightly
better dizzying wind that is super resisted most of the time. Thank god
for dot's and snare or we would be the most underpowered class in the
game. But we would still be fun =)
-K
Ulryk wrote in message ...
<snip>
JubJub McRae
a warrior secondary character.
brent
We just spent the last 3 days in fear and only carmine pants dropped. Shadow
knights, paladins, druids and necros were getting close to full suits of
armor. So just don't expect to get anything.
Argos Darksparius
lvl 50 wizard
Solusek Ro
Billy Shields
: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end game you basically want to
: be a Wizard, Warrior, Cleric or Enchanter.
You're wrong.
In the end you want to be a tank, enchanter, necro or shaman (then
magician then druid).
If you want to sit there ressing people and medding in between then
cleric is for you because that WILL be your job.
If you want to be a glorified taxi service then be a wizard (druids
have group gate too but they actually have other useful abilities
and can't teleport to the planes anyway).
: Mage would be ok except for shitty pathing and no evac/gate spells.
Mage is *much* better than a wizard. I'll take a mage over a wizard
at any level without question (unless the guy at the mage's keyboard
is a complete and utter moron).
: I never turn down a Wiz for my groups.
You mustn't like making good experience.
: "Ulryk" <NetW...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
:>
:>
:>
Ed Bradley
your class )
I play a Wizard and I love it. I love seeing a heavy pull come in and having
to go full-burn to turn a crisis into a managable situation (but always with
timing so as not to get aggrod). I love it when a group says 'Nice nuking'
as 7 mobs lie dead and steaming at our feet and yet they have not had to
taunt anything off me.
And the rush when you Evac your group from certain death for the first time
at level 29 cannot be beaten.
If you dont enjoy these things you are playing the wrong class. And envy for
a Mages nukes?? Puh-lease!!!
Sean
I can't possibly imagine how long it will take me to get past level 45. It
is so insanely boring! Stand, Blast, Sit, Meditate. Ugh.
--
Sean S. -:- ICQ: 1826323
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Ulryk wrote in message ...
Joel Weaver
<brad...@sdreams.co.uk> wrote:
>If you are a good player and pleasant company you will get a group whatever
>your class )
That's really the number one criterion for a good group. Some people
will try to min-max their groups, but most will take all comers as
long as they're not morons (and sometimes even if they are).
>I play a Wizard and I love it. I love seeing a heavy pull come in and having
>to go full-burn to turn a crisis into a managable situation (but always with
>timing so as not to get aggrod). I love it when a group says 'Nice nuking'
>as 7 mobs lie dead and steaming at our feet and yet they have not had to
>taunt anything off me.
7 mobs? For one thing, I'd question the sanity of your puller.
For another, I'd recommend an enchanter over a wizard in that
situation. You need crowd control, not big nukes.
Still, how does that saying go? "If all you have is a hammer,
everything looks like a nail."
>And the rush when you Evac your group from certain death for the first time
>at level 29 cannot be beaten.
Evac is nice, there is no doubt about it. Succor works just as well
though, and druids probably have the most versatile spell list in the
game.
>If you dont enjoy these things you are playing the wrong class. And envy for
>a Mages nukes?? Puh-lease!!!
Don't stop playing a wizard if you're having fun with him. The
original poster sounded like he wasn't having fun though. If you're
not having fun with the wiz at 25, then drop the character because it
won't substantially change at 50. Except for the resist rates, and
not in a good way.
Joel Weaver
jwe...@bayou.uh.edu
Sean
healing!" Nuking is a wizard's job. That is it.
--
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Everquest Producer
Ed Bradley wrote in message <389A...@sdreams.co.uk>...
>If you are a good player and pleasant company you will get a group whatever
>your class )
>
>I play a Wizard and I love it. I love seeing a heavy pull come in and
having
>to go full-burn to turn a crisis into a managable situation (but always
with
>timing so as not to get aggrod). I love it when a group says 'Nice nuking'
>as 7 mobs lie dead and steaming at our feet and yet they have not had to
>taunt anything off me.
>And the rush when you Evac your group from certain death for the first time
>at level 29 cannot be beaten.
>
>If you dont enjoy these things you are playing the wrong class. And envy
for
>a Mages nukes?? Puh-lease!!!
>
>Ulryk <NetW...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
>news:uicJOISc$GA.221@cpmsnbbsa04...
Lyion
Hmm, have your warrior go solo something for a quest sometime.
Warriors are nice, but a warrior alone at 50 can't do much.
No, a Wizard can lay down serious firepower. 2 Wizards, a bard,
an Enchanter, and a Warrior got 90% of the kills last time I was
in Fear. This was with continuous pulls right after a break.
The 2 other groups were tank/shaman/druid/Mage Heavy and werent
getting almost any.
Wizards aren't a versatile class, but they can lay down heavy
nukes and Ice Comet seems to taunt nowhere near as nastily as
mez or even Mage nukes.
Ignore the garbage here that Wizards are not wanted in groups.
Wizards not only can travel anywhere rapidly, Something
EXTREMELY important in our overcrowded worlds, but they can
light up monsters. Plus with the lowering of resists and the
quick reset times, a bard and an Enchanter may make the Wizard
one of the most efficient killing machine out there.
The biggest issue is most high level wizards do not need groups
since they can obliterate anything fast. So many do not know how
to group, and are 'nuke happy'.
From a damage perspective, Wizards get good mana efficient
spells, and can do massive damage.
All classes have value in groups. Some have more defined roles.
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NBarnes
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end game you basically
> want to be a Wizard, Warrior, Cleric or Enchanter.
I'm correcting you, you are wrong. As a druid, I have some...
issues with the balancing of my class, but I like who I am and
what I do.
If I were a wizard, I would be restarting in such a hurry as a
magician....
NBarnes - Dina Demeteran, 47th circle druid, Sol Ro
James
<rscottN...@senco.com.invalid> wrote:
>In article <389e65c5...@news.ne.mediaone.net>,
>mrju...@REMOVETHISPART.hotmail.com (JubJub McRae) wrote:
>>The wizard class has one purpose. To serve as a vehicle for
>twinking
>>a warrior secondary character.
>
>Hmm, have your warrior go solo something for a quest sometime.
>Warriors are nice, but a warrior alone at 50 can't do much.
That's why wiz is said to serve as a vehicle for twinking secondary
character. S/he can teleport, and can sneak in mid level dungeon and
kill greenies fast.
>
>No, a Wizard can lay down serious firepower. 2 Wizards, a bard,
>an Enchanter, and a Warrior got 90% of the kills last time I was
>in Fear. This was with continuous pulls right after a break.
Some group was tanking for them, right ?
JubJub McRae
<rscottN...@senco.com.invalid> wrote:
>In article <389e65c5...@news.ne.mediaone.net>,
>mrju...@REMOVETHISPART.hotmail.com (JubJub McRae) wrote:
>>The wizard class has one purpose. To serve as a vehicle for
>twinking
>>a warrior secondary character.
>
>Hmm, have your warrior go solo something for a quest sometime.
>Warriors are nice, but a warrior alone at 50 can't do much.
Umm... it's not a solo game.
>No, a Wizard can lay down serious firepower. 2 Wizards, a bard,
>an Enchanter, and a Warrior got 90% of the kills last time I was
>in Fear. This was with continuous pulls right after a break.
Hmm - methinks memblur may have had a hand in this achievement.
>The 2 other groups were tank/shaman/druid/Mage Heavy and werent
>getting almost any.
Hmm - methinks memblur may have had a hand in this achievement
>Wizards aren't a versatile class, but they can lay down heavy
>nukes and Ice Comet seems to taunt nowhere near as nastily as
>mez or even Mage nukes.
>
>Ignore the garbage here that Wizards are not wanted in groups.
>Wizards not only can travel anywhere rapidly, Something
>EXTREMELY important in our overcrowded worlds, but they can
>light up monsters. Plus with the lowering of resists and the
>quick reset times, a bard and an Enchanter may make the Wizard
>one of the most efficient killing machine out there.
Efficient no. Effective for single mob encounters yes.
>The biggest issue is most high level wizards do not need groups
>since they can obliterate anything fast. So many do not know how
>to group, and are 'nuke happy'.
>From a damage perspective, Wizards get good mana efficient
>spells, and can do massive damage.
DD is highly mana inefficient. Be it the best in the game or worst.
It is time efficient. That's it.
>All classes have value in groups. Some have more defined roles.
But not all classes have the same value...
Gary Evans
healing
mobs. it takes good timing to get them dead in a nice fashion. Timing is one of
the
main skills a wizz learns, when to nuke.
Ed Bradley
Joel Weaver <jwe...@bayou.uh.edu> wrote in message
news:38a1da82...@news.texas.net...
whatever
> >your class )
>
> will try to min-max their groups, but most will take all comers as
> long as they're not morons (and sometimes even if they are).
>
having
> >to go full-burn to turn a crisis into a managable situation (but always
with
> >timing so as not to get aggrod). I love it when a group says 'Nice
nuking'
> >as 7 mobs lie dead and steaming at our feet and yet they have not had to
> >taunt anything off me.
>
It was a largeish pull with an unfortunate room pop on top. The puller was
cool )
>
> For another, I'd recommend an enchanter over a wizard in that
> situation. You need crowd control, not big nukes.
>
> Still, how does that saying go? "If all you have is a hammer,
> everything looks like a nail."
When does any group _not_ need an enchanter when in a dungeon? If we could
have got one, we would have had one.
>
> >And the rush when you Evac your group from certain death for the first
time
> >at level 29 cannot be beaten.
>
> Evac is nice, there is no doubt about it. Succor works just as well
> though, and druids probably have the most versatile spell list in the
> game.
>
> >If you dont enjoy these things you are playing the wrong class. And envy
for
> >a Mages nukes?? Puh-lease!!!
>
> Don't stop playing a wizard if you're having fun with him. The
> original poster sounded like he wasn't having fun though. If you're
> not having fun with the wiz at 25, then drop the character because it
> won't substantially change at 50. Except for the resist rates, and
> not in a good way.
With the new inbuilt debuffs and religious use of the Staff of Temperate
Flux I have little problem with resists even if no-one is available to
Malise/Tashan.
But yes, Im having a blast, thanks )
>
> Joel Weaver
> jwe...@bayou.uh.edu
Mork
And if it was a toss-up between a Druid and a Shaman I'd pick the Druid
anyday: evac, damage shields, pack buffs, snare, group teleport etc.
"Billy Shields" <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:389e79e1$0$14...@motown.iinet.net.au...
> Mork <nospam> wrote:
> : Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end game you basically want
to
> : be a Wizard, Warrior, Cleric or Enchanter.
>
> You're wrong.
>
> In the end you want to be a tank, enchanter, necro or shaman (then
> magician then druid).
>
> If you want to sit there ressing people and medding in between then
> cleric is for you because that WILL be your job.
>
> If you want to be a glorified taxi service then be a wizard (druids
> have group gate too but they actually have other useful abilities
> and can't teleport to the planes anyway).
>
> : Mage would be ok except for shitty pathing and no evac/gate spells.
>
> Mage is *much* better than a wizard. I'll take a mage over a wizard
> at any level without question (unless the guy at the mage's keyboard
> is a complete and utter moron).
>
> : I never turn down a Wiz for my groups.
>
> You mustn't like making good experience.
>
> : "Ulryk" <NetW...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> :>
> :>
> :>
>
>
Ulryk
all of you. Please don't think that is flippant or in passing.
I like the challenge of being a wizard, I was told by a 50th level wizard
before I ever began that it was going to be a difficult path. That's one of
the reasons I wanted it. I wanted to be the guy living on the razor's edge,
of standing there being an effective group member, yet all the while knowing
full well I could be dropped in a heartbeat. That is excitement. I wanted
that.
If I had to focus all the feelings I had when I wrote the original post on
one aspect of being a wizard, I would have to say it's the
Auto-no-chance-of-EVER-hurting-it resists. I don't mind if my 175 point (I'm
26th now) Frost shock does only 80 points. It's the way it goes, it's a
warrior missing, or a cleric waiting for his heal to recycle, it's a part of
the game. I am at a point where I need to leave the room I am in go to the
next (higher) one. I can't. The main creature there is 100% resist to me.
The first few times I went there, I cast and cast and nothing happens. My
friends don't know I didn't do squat, they just think it was a tougher than
usual creature. Well after a few times of doing this, I start to realize, I
am leeching. These same people that have been your friends since
blackburrow, the warrior that laid down his life to the Griffon that jumped
us when we were passing through EK on purpose so the rest could get away,
The cleric that has pulled my little wizard butt from the purple maw of
death more times than I can remember and is euphoric that I didn't die, the
ranger that even in the light of his inferior 'TANK' status (My experience
from playing one, not anything he would ever say) is always there with a
good joke, and never shows anything but his happy, up-beat side and keeps us
all grinning even on those long boring camps. THESE are the people you are
leeching. So I tell them, knowing full well their reaction: "Don't worry
about it." "How many times have you dropped the baddie in the nick of time
saving ALL of our butts?" "Just think of it as a little payback." Well none
is required, but I let that be that, still feeling a bit sheepish. Then we
get the tough ones a little too fast. If I could have done a third of the
normal damage of my nukes, we would have been able make it by a hair.
Unfortunately, I am useless. Well the Warrior is getting low, The ranger is
having to solo one, the cleric ends up heal taunting the one on the warrior,
and all looks bleak. So I decide at that point, If I can't be a help to the
party as a wizard, then damn it, I will help them as a cadaver. I turn full
burn. Dump all my mana on the one attacking the cleric, praying that the
'potential' taunt is enough to get him to aggro on me. It doesn't. The damn
critter knows full well that I am a worthless little leech, and he has
bigger fish to fry.
After that I left. I couldn't take it. Ineffectual? yup. leeching? yup.
Taking up a space that could have been used by someone that could have kept
my friends alive? You bet. They couldn't figure out why I was logging. I
just said call that paladin that wanted to join.
Just don't leave me with NOTHING to do.
Mages have resist problems just like us. They use their pet, or throw a
damage shield. Necro.. pet, Druid.. shields and buffs, Shaman.. buffs,
Cleric.. buffs, hell, even a thief can use steal to taunt if he can't do
ANYTHING else.
Again, I need to restate what I said in the original post... I don't wish to
take anything away from any other class! This is not an attack, just a
comparison. It's not even about class envy, even if I do have a healthy dose
of that. It's about being worthless. Nobody should ever feel that way in a
game.
Ok, so I have whined to you. Thank you for putting up with me, but whining
is not helping anything. If this is to be more than a simple bitch session I
have to contribute. here goes...
Please make wizard spells less resistible across the board. It's all we
have! This is in addition to the 35+ patch you just did. I'm not talking
about 10+ levels above us, just a 10%-20% debuff to the targets resistance.
-OR-
Give us a resistance debuff line, it doesn't have to be as effective as the
other classes, just enough to turn a close critter that is 100% resist into
something we can at least do some damage to, even if it's not a lot.
-OR- (at the very least)
give us a line of spells that will punch through resistance. make it more
mana, lower damage, longer cast time, longer recycle, whatever! Make it so
horrible we would never use it normally, but at least it would be available
when we are worthless!
Thanks for listening to me sob a bit. I know other classes have their
problems. This isn't an attempt to lessen their arguments. just a peek into
one of them most awful moments in one wizards life.
I will not stop playing my wizard. I will get him to 50th. I will be proud
of what I accomplished. I will enjoy the ride. Thanks.
Sean
still haven't got it yet. I suppose it'll hit them like a ton of bricks
like it did me (with my wizard).
--
Sean S. -:- ICQ: 1826323
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Everquest Producer
Gary Evans wrote in message <389F63B2...@csse.monash.edu.au>...
Gray Eagle
to
> take anything away from any other class! This is not an attack, just a
> comparison. It's not even about class envy, even if I do have a healthy
dose
> of that. It's about being worthless. Nobody should ever feel that way in a
> game.
Well spoken Ulryk.
I come to Norrath for fun .. and the friends I have in the lands.
I began on the 2nd week the game was open for business.. and have yet to get
any characters to 50th even though they have been in the game since then
..many of my friends have.. even Destard, who used to wonder if she would
ever make 15th (she is a 50th wizard now) ..
There have been many times when 'the group was full' .. or none of my
friends were on line.. and times when I just didn't feel like playing a
warrior, or wizard.. I did something else.. for fun.
I have a 20th wizard.. just getting into the range where resists will cause
deaths in the group. I haven't played him in a long time.. just for that
reason. I love to stand back, and using assist, just drop crits at the tanks
feet. I get a huge amount of fun at our group being able to take down
something that could wipe the floor with any 2 or 3 of us.. simply because
we work well as a team.
I despise spells bouncing.. continously .. and only being able to contribute
by using my DAGGER. *THAT* is not what a WIZARD is about and it fries me
when it happens.
I fully concur that instead of gettin a complete bounce.. we should at least
burn a creatures eyebrows off! If I were king.. I would make minimum damage
limits on each damage spell available ie:
.. creature rolls a save.. fine.. he takes half damage if it's a big spell
for your level .. and less if it's a small spell ( 20% damage ) .. this
worked in D&D .. and the group had FUN.. because no one was 'worthless'
-GE
James
the problem is being a wizard, you feel less and less effective in a
group when you get to higher level.
Two examples:
Sol B bat room, 36 enchanter (me), 41 warrior and 44 druid. Three of
us can kill two bats, or one LDC and one bats, or death beetles with
little difficulty.
Sol B bat room again, 48 wiz (me), 45 wiz, 50 bard, 39 shaman, 45 SK,
47 rogue. The puller accidently pulled three bats, we zoned out with
two casulties. Admittedly, the group didn't fight too well. But I
could do little to save the day. That powerless feeling made me so
sad. Three bats, that's nothing in my enchanter's eyes (lvl 40 now).
But for my wiz, what I could do was only chain burning one, and it
didn't work either.
I am a good wiz. In my young days, we fought in Upper Guk without any
ranger/druid. And It's my root/nuke that stopped those froggie
runners. I felt so happy at that time since I DID something for the
group. But now .... /shrug.
Binbini
Lvl 40 enchanter
lvl 48 wiz
On Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:25:44 -0600, "Ulryk" <NetW...@email.msn.com>
wrote:
NBarnes
> Huh? No evac class? You're crazy.
>
> And if it was a toss-up between a Druid and a Shaman I'd pick the
> Druid anyday: evac, damage shields, pack buffs, snare, group
> teleport etc.
If you happen to get your hands on a 47th shaman on Sol Ro, let
me know, I'd be up for a character swap. Shamans are radically
more powerful than druids at high levels.
NBarnes
> give us a line of spells that will punch through resistance. make
> it more mana, lower damage, longer cast time, longer recycle,
> whatever! Make it so horrible we would never use it normally, but
> at least it would be available when we are worthless!
This is exactly what wizards need. Wizards don't need to do
something new, they just need to be able to do what they do; nuke.
Wizards should get a new line of nukes that are next best thing to
impossible to resist, but that are more mana inefficient than their
standard nukes (even taking resists on those standard nukes into
account). Wizards will suddenly become, if not actively useful,
at least passable on planar raids, dragon runs, and other activities
involving high-resist mobs.
Mind, this will not make wizards good. Nukes are still too
inefficient compared to other ways of crippling a mob, so wizards
will remain limited compared to the magicians, the shamen, and the
necros. But the basic problem of burn inefficiency is something that
I don't think Verant will ever really be prepared to address, since
it would require retuning not just wizards, but really any class that
has burn (yes, druids take a hit in overall power in exchange for
their efficient burn, too. We're just better off because we get
heals, which are one of the most efficient spells in the game).
Acheron
> I like the challenge of being a wizard, I was told by a 50th level wizard
> before I ever began that it was going to be a difficult path. That's one
of
> the reasons I wanted it. I wanted to be the guy living on the razor's
edge,
> of standing there being an effective group member, yet all the while
knowing
> full well I could be dropped in a heartbeat. That is excitement. I wanted
> that.
I found an unexpected joy of wizardry along my path, as I grew. I love being
the one to rescue part or all of the group with evac... being the difference
between a horrible death of the entire party and maybe losing only one, or
none.
Last weekend I had one of the most exciting experiences I've had in eq for a
long time. A group of us were hunting Seafury Cycs in OOT, and we had broken
up a bit to go sell at the Sister Isle. While several of us were shopping, a
call for help came in from a friend (not in the group) who was being chased
around the island with the tower by a cyclops. Adnan from our group ran to
assist him, and taunted the cyclops off the friend, but in the process was
knocked down to half... I dropped my shopping and swam to help as fast as I
could. I realized as I swam that my SoW had run out, and Tylon, another
ranger from our group tracked me and sowed me on the beach of the seafury
isle, and i dived back into the water to try to save our group member, who
was now down to a bubble and a half. As I stumbled onto the beach of the
tower isle, I saw the cyclops running ahead of me, around the beach, and
gave chase. I stopped and began to cast, but realized that Adnan would be
out of range for the evac. I ran over the top of the island as he ran
around, his life dropping below a bubble. I stopped and started casting,
praying that he would be in range by the time it finished. The last thing I
saw as the portal opened and took me away was the Adnan getting hit for
double 80s... LOADING...
And suddenly I was in North Karana... I looked around and gasped in relief
as Adnan dropped in beside me. He was down to 39 hitpoints, but he was
breathing, and I bandaged him as he meditated and healed himself, until the
druid gathered up the remainder of the group and brought them to meet us.
The euphoria of saving him from such certain death was amazing, and only a
wizard or a druid could have done it.
((SNIP))
> and all looks bleak. So I decide at that point, If I can't be a help to
the
> party as a wizard, then damn it, I will help them as a cadaver. I turn
full
> burn. Dump all my mana on the one attacking the cleric, praying that the
> 'potential' taunt is enough to get him to aggro on me. It doesn't. The
damn
> critter knows full well that I am a worthless little leech, and he has
> bigger fish to fry.
>
> After that I left. I couldn't take it. Ineffectual? yup. leeching? yup.
> Taking up a space that could have been used by someone that could have
kept
> my friends alive? You bet. They couldn't figure out why I was logging. I
> just said call that paladin that wanted to join.
>
> Just don't leave me with NOTHING to do.
I know exactly how you feel here. I'm a level 34 Wiz (just got 34, after
taking almost 4 months to get past 30 and 31). Many of the people in my
guild are 38-42, so I spend a fair bit of time fighting deep reds. At level
31 fighting mermaids in Kedge, it feels pretty bad... I get out my staff of
writhing, which *sometimes* lets me get a bit of damage off the proc. I can
sometimes get partial damage on things up to 8 levels above, if an enchanter
is using Tashani on the target. Anything beyond that is a writeoff
spell-wise... I can't assist at all. I usually do something silly like get
out my level 1 O'keil's Radiation spell with its two points of fire damage
per hit, and buff everyone with it to make myself feel better about the
situation, then melee as best I can.
I love your ideas. Something, ANYTHING that would let a wizard assist a
group with mobs more than 7-8 levels above the wizard's level would make me
feel way better in those situations. To be honest, I've never met a mob that
was less than 7-8 levels above me that I couldn't hurt (well, there's Lydl
in East Freeport, but he can't be hurt by any magic). Sometimes I had to
dispell them if they had some kind of resist buffs on them, or switch spell
types between hot and cold, magic and lightning to find something that
wasn't resisted all the time, but I could always hurt them.
A suggestion for you: I'm not sure what level you're at right now, but
you'll find in the mid twenties, there are times when your spell that does
the most damage is by no means the best spell. For instance, at 29, I had
ThunderStrike which did 260 damage or so, but it is resisted a lot more
because it is a spell that interrupts casters. Any spell that has more than
one effect is much more likely to be resisted (see Tishans Clash, a
stun/damage spell. It is much more resisted than the Cleric stun-only spell)
My main damage spell for that level was Inferno shock (250 dam) and when I
fought things with good fire resistance, I'd switch to the level 24 Frost
Shock, which did 187 or so.
Now that I'm 34, my cold spell is Ice Shock, and my fire spell is still
Flame Shock. I'll still use Thunderstrike too, because between that and
Tishan'sClash , I can usually have a spell ready for an attempt to interrupt
a caster.
I guess what I'm saying is that you have a lot of damage spells, and some of
them will work better in various sitiations than others. Make sure you know
them all well, and when to use them, and when not to... Frost Shock in
permafrost is a bad plan, as are fire spells against fire elementals. Some
people think that electrical/lightnign based spells work better in the rain.
If you have that down, the only thing left is the problem of our utter
ineffectualness against deep reds... hopefully someone will read the
suggestions below and consider them, or some other solution. I think the
last item is actually the best... I don't mind the resist rate at all on the
things that I've seen at 34... it just makes me REALLY want to be with an
enchanter for Tishani (well, there's also the crack)
~Celebairn Istari
Wizard of the Folk
((SNIP))
Fryden
effects of this problem being level 22. It's a little strange taking on
Avocets with a full group and not being able to contribute ANYTHING to
the battle. Yeah we have O'Keils, why bother. I have been reduced to the
"grocery delivery boy" at this point because it's the one thing I can do
to help. Is that a quest? "Soandso tells you 'go get me 20 food and 20
water and you will be rewarded by being allowed to watch the rest of us
fight'
Well as was said earlier we should be able to fall back on something
even if it's lower damage or less mana efficiency whatever but for
Verant to say that Wizards are completely balanced is really an unfair
statement.
NBarnes wrote:
> Mork wrote:
>
> > Huh? No evac class? You're crazy.
> >
> > And if it was a toss-up between a Druid and a Shaman I'd pick the
> > Druid anyday: evac, damage shields, pack buffs, snare, group
> > teleport etc.
>
> If you happen to get your hands on a 47th shaman on Sol Ro, let
> me know, I'd be up for a character swap. Shamans are radically
> more powerful than druids at high levels.
>
Kevlar
can start adding in to your group. My druid had the same problem, no nukes
on avocets, just healing and shield of barbs till lvl 23, then I could hit them with
some lightning.
-K
Fryden <jfr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:38A092EB...@yahoo.com...
scrub
shields. Why do druids and mages get *all* that stuff (SoW, tracking,
heals, TP, and damage shields for druids; pets, damage shields, and
conjuring for mage), and wizards get nothing but nukes & TP?
Is it too much to ask for if wizards got equal or better damage
shields?
I don't play a wizard, but I'm aching to play one. It just seems so
depressing in their current state.
Bill Diamond
level 18 and just couldn't seem to get one step further. It was a
very hard decision. He was my first character, and had to suffer
through one heck of a quest to reverse PvP early on.
It was painfully obvious he was a poorly constructure character, but I
suspect a lot of us stick with our first characters out of emotion. I
finally started a few other characters - a duid, a wizard, a necro, an
enchanter and a amgician. I knew I liked casting.
So far, I've really liked the druid and the wizard the best. Now,
I've made mistakes with him too - his base Int was the best I could do
on a human, but I've got him enough toys to boost his IQ to 145. What
does make him a bit tough to play is the amount of time it takes his
mana to regen.
Shields are great - but, I'm not a melee class guy. What wizards
need, in my limited experience, is something along the lines of the
lamented manastone. Perhaps not as powerful, but something that
allows us to regenerate mana more quickly than sitting on our cans
with our faces in the book.
Otherwise, I do like the wizards. They're tanks, but with some
interesting twists.
scrub
>
>Shields are great - but, I'm not a melee class guy. What wizards
>need, in my limited experience, is something along the lines of the
>lamented manastone. Perhaps not as powerful, but something that
>allows us to regenerate mana more quickly than sitting on our cans
>with our faces in the book.
>
But half the argument is that the DD's aren't sticking to mobs that
are higher level. More mana won't help this at all. At least damage
shields are something a wizard could use to contribute. They give one
at an early level, then stop for some reason.
Note that damage shields are meant as buffs for the groups tanks, and
not for the wizard to melee with =)
Billy Shields
: Mork wrote:
:> Huh? No evac class? You're crazy.
:>
:> And if it was a toss-up between a Druid and a Shaman I'd pick the
:> Druid anyday: evac, damage shields, pack buffs, snare, group
:> teleport etc.
: If you happen to get your hands on a 47th shaman on Sol Ro, let
: me know, I'd be up for a character swap. Shamans are radically
: more powerful than druids at high levels.
This is funny--I've been saying the same thing to my friends for
weeks ("I'd swap my 45 druid for a 45 shaman in a heartbeat").
In fact I've started powerlevelling a few characters up to see
which one I want to play since I'd rather be something other
than a druid.
Alasdair Allan
> mana, lower damage, longer cast time, longer recycle, whatever! Make it so
> horrible we would never use it normally, but at least it would be
available
> when we are worthless!
You'd *still* be using DD as your main contribution and that would *still*
be unwelcome in decent groups. DD is seldom worth casting - even under
Clarity it will only mean 1 thing, downtime.
> Thanks for listening to me sob a bit. I know other classes have their
> problems. This isn't an attempt to lessen their arguments. just a peek
into
> one of them most awful moments in one wizards life.
>
> I will not stop playing my wizard. I will get him to 50th. I will be proud
> of what I accomplished. I will enjoy the ride. Thanks.
I don't think you get it.
The Wizard isn't the only class that has difficulty levelling. For example
the Rogue and Shaman are both pretty hard classes to get up there. The
difference is that a Rogue or Shaman at 50 is *devastating*, superbly
effective and rewarded. The Wizard at 50, is *still* just a taxi cab that
is unwanted by groups.
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
NBarnes
> NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> : If you happen to get your hands on a 47th shaman on Sol Ro, let
> : me know, I'd be up for a character swap. Shamans are radically
> : more powerful than druids at high levels.
> This is funny--I've been saying the same thing to my friends for
> weeks ("I'd swap my 45 druid for a 45 shaman in a heartbeat").
>
> In fact I've started powerlevelling a few characters up to see
> which one I want to play since I'd rather be something other
> than a druid.
You and me both. I invested in a second EQ account so I could
use my druid for powerleveling my secondary, since about the best
thing druids are good for is twinking. Nobody twinks like a druid.
I'm just trying to decide what class to play.
NBarnes
> I think the best thing wizards could get would be a line of damage
> shields. Why do druids and mages get *all* that stuff (SoW, tracking,
> heals, TP, and damage shields for druids; pets, damage shields, and
> conjuring for mage), and wizards get nothing but nukes & TP?
In short, because you get the best TPs (better locations, no
damn druids hanging around to kill your friends) and the best
burn, you get nothing else. This is because Verant radically
overvalued both burn and teleports in the design phase and now
wizards suck because of it. Druids are hosed, too, but less so
because we have other things because we have inferior teleports
(slightly) and inferior burn (majorly).
Billy Shields
Heh, now it really is funny. I invested in a second EQ account as
well so I have two computers side by side to powerlevel my new
character (whatever it will be; haven't decided yet).
Theres cases to be made for:
Barbarian rogue (though it'll probably bore me)
High elf enchanter (they are gods after all)
Gnome necro (though I'm tempted to change to erudite)
Barbarian shaman (gotta really get to 29+ for this one though)
Troll shaman (lower wis but regen sure is nice)
Billy Shields
: scrub wrote:
Well, to be fair the TP points vary. In most cases theres wizard
and druid TPs in the same zone or adjacent zones pair up like:
Butcherblock vs Greater Faydark: BB is nice for going to DC, Kedge
and Unrest but Gfay is better for going to Felwithe/Kelethin
Tox Forest: druid point is closer to Erudin (not that anyone cares
since I only used this when I was buying spells or going to Kerra
to get my gold ring)
Lavastorm vs Nek Forest: I *much* prefer the Lavastorm tp point.
Its right next to Sol A/B after all. Particularly since there
is an evac spell to here too. You can often pop right back to
where you were before some other bastard steals your hunting
area.
Fearrott: no real difference here
North Karana: wiz one is closer to South Karana. The druid one
is closer to EK But we get a sucoor spell there at 29 anyway.
North Ro vs South Ro: sro is closer to Guk but nro is closer to
Freeport which is useful (for catching to the boat to OOT for
instance)
West Commons vs East Commons? (at least I think this is where
the wiz tp point is): I'd prefer east commons in this case.
West Commons is only useful for going to HHP and Rivervale (which
we get Misty Thicket for anyway).
Odd ones:
Steamfont (druid): fairly useless (especially since I don't go to
MM much)
Misty Thicket (druid): wonderful. This one is about the most useful
there is.
East Karana (druid): arguably useful. I never used it much though.
West Karana (wiz): one less zone from Qeynos/Everfrost/Perma/Halas.
As a druid my wish list of teleport points would include:
Everfrost
Greater Faydark (at the ring in the newbie area). I am a wood elf
after all.
North Ro or East Commons (for proximity to Freeport)
danstrad
Billy Shields wrote in message <38a212ea$0$19...@motown.iinet.net.au>...
>NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>: scrub wrote:
>
>:> I think the best thing wizards could get would be a line of damage
>:> shields. Why do druids and mages get *all* that stuff (SoW, tracking,
>:> heals, TP, and damage shields for druids; pets, damage shields, and
>:> conjuring for mage), and wizards get nothing but nukes & TP?
>
>: In short, because you get the best TPs (better locations, no
>: damn druids hanging around to kill your friends) and the best
>: burn, you get nothing else. This is because Verant radically
>: overvalued both burn and teleports in the design phase and now
>: wizards suck because of it. Druids are hosed, too, but less so
>: because we have other things because we have inferior teleports
>: (slightly) and inferior burn (majorly).
>
>Well, to be fair the TP points vary. In most cases theres wizard
>and druid TPs in the same zone or adjacent zones pair up like:
His point about the druids at some of the circles is valid though- it gets
old zoning in after an evac to
A Treant hits YOU for 50 points of damage!
A druid begins to cast a spell
A druid begins to cast a spell
etc.
It's even more annoying when you've specifically asked them to mem succor
butcherblock or south ro.
<snip>
>Fearrott: no real difference here
AFAIK there is no wizzie gate to Feerrott, only Cazic.
TuKuuL
>have! This is in addition to the 35+ patch you just did. I'm not talking
>about 10+ levels above us, just a 10%-20% debuff to the targets resistance.
>
>-OR-
>
>Give us a resistance debuff line, it doesn't have to be as effective as the
>other classes, just enough to turn a close critter that is 100% resist into
>something we can at least do some damage to, even if it's not a lot.
>
>-OR- (at the very least)
>
>give us a line of spells that will punch through resistance. make it more
>mana, lower damage, longer cast time, longer recycle, whatever! Make it so
>horrible we would never use it normally, but at least it would be available
>when we are worthless!
>
>Thanks for listening to me sob a bit. I know other classes have their
>problems. This isn't an attempt to lessen their arguments. just a peek into
>one of them most awful moments in one wizards life.
>
>I will not stop playing my wizard. I will get him to 50th. I will be proud
>of what I accomplished. I will enjoy the ride. Thanks.
>
WTG dude !! Don't give up like the majority of the people do. These
are the few that will succeed. The same can be said in real life as
well.
TuKuuL
Lyion
The Wizard was not designed with group combat in mind. However,
on the other side you can solo your way from 30 to 50 with ease,
especially with JBoots. Plus, the downtime other classes have
running to the bank, or to a new area isn't there. A nice perk.
At least Wizards can annihilate any class in a duel at 50 if the
Wizard knows what he/she is doing.
Verant basically screwed Wizards. All the Pure casters have DD.
The others get many other spells, and all get Pets. The pets are
more of an issue 40+, since they essentially turn the Enchanter
and Mage into two characters. Vision and play testing were not
at the top of Verants list.
Not to mention the balancing of Wizards in beta destroyed them.
They were a frighteningly powerful class. Now at high levels
they are too onesided.
Although 2 Ice Comets per pull is over 2k Damage. With 255 Med a
Wizard can keep that rolling. Add Clarity and you have evac and
decent damage at your disposal. Although wizards are NOT mana
efficient.
The biggest problem Wizards have is the same problem all casters
and to some degree Shaman have. Resist rates. Which is why the
Planes and Dragons are moreso about Tanks, Clerics, and Bards.
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Alx
That's the way I would like to see Wizards. I really want to
play one but feel they are just to one-sided. Doesn't it seem
appropriate that a Wizard be as powerful as a necro/magician
and his/her pet combined?
A Wizard should also be an expert at getting out of trouble...
Flash/Bang and they're gone, taking mobs down in the process.
Although simply giving them a root spell as effective as snare
or a pet would help ALOT.
Alex
--
Remove the Z if replying by email.
"Lyion" <rscottN...@senco.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:2e89f1b9...@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com...
Alasdair Allan
> To add insult to injury Mages get Malosi in addition to pets.
>
> The Wizard was not designed with group combat in mind. However,
> on the other side you can solo your way from 30 to 50 with ease,
> especially with JBoots. Plus, the downtime other classes have
> running to the bank, or to a new area isn't there. A nice perk.
JBoots are no longer an option. I wish people who levelled up when the game
was easy would start to realise that *basic* things they take for granted
are no longer available to new players.
> At least Wizards can annihilate any class in a duel at 50 if the
> Wizard knows what he/she is doing.
Err, like *who*?
A Wizard doesn't have the Mana to kill *anyone* at 50 because in PvP, DD
does *not* do full damage. A funny example from recently, I wanted to pop
down from Sky to get some food and drink so asked a Wizard to nuke me.
I had already prepared by using Envenomed Bolt on myself, shedding around
800hps and leaving me at a tad over 400. My resistances in the outfit I was
wearing were poor, with only 25 or so Magic Resistance and 25 SvCold.
(Albeit as a caster with high Wisdom, I have a strong innate magical
resistance).
His first Rend barely scratched my bar, maybe 60 to 80 damage. I switched
to the Inv screen to watch the next "blast" as his Ice Comet did 94.
Finally a second Rend managed to kill me.
So lets see, thats two Rends and an Ice Comet, 900 mana for 400 pts of
damage. *Plus* I had no resists up, *plus* I did no healing. Of course the
casting times on those spells would make it trivial for interrupt him.
Fair enough the Shaman is probably the strongest PvP class (damage plus
healing plus pet, and of course in PvP Incapacitate works like Snare) but
I've not heard of any class losing consistently to level 50 Wizards except
when the Wizard uses "run and hide and med" which is generally frowned on in
friendly duels.
> Verant basically screwed Wizards. All the Pure casters have DD.
> The others get many other spells, and all get Pets. The pets are
> more of an issue 40+, since they essentially turn the Enchanter
> and Mage into two characters. Vision and play testing were not
> at the top of Verants list.
>
> Not to mention the balancing of Wizards in beta destroyed them.
> They were a frighteningly powerful class. Now at high levels
> they are too onesided.
These two statements are contradictory.
In general, Verant got their *aim* right for wizards, their DD is the best
and they managed to balance Root breakability pretty much spot on, so a
decent Wizard can solo fine all the way to 50.
What Verant *didn't* understand was the importance of burn. No-one (at any
level) should be using DD. If you are you are levelling more slowly than
efficient players. That's the problem with Wizards, DD just isn't something
any group should want.
Alasdair Allan
> "Frighteningly powerful class" in Beta? Really?
>
> That's the way I would like to see Wizards. I really want to
> play one but feel they are just to one-sided. Doesn't it seem
> appropriate that a Wizard be as powerful as a necro/magician
> and his/her pet combined?
>
> A Wizard should also be an expert at getting out of trouble...
> Flash/Bang and they're gone, taking mobs down in the process.
> Although simply giving them a root spell as effective as snare
> or a pet would help ALOT.
Spells like the old Root aren't the answer. They simply make it a
"no-brainer". Hmm, lessee I cast a spell once and then its a guaranteed xp.
No chance. And Snare should be nerfed so it has the same chance to break
as Root, IMHO.
What *might* help Wizards is a return to the fiction base. I recall a lot
of stories using the magic user drawing up incredible power that harmed
their life-force, nearly killing them so they could save people.
So a spell, as I see it, would be either an AE effect DD for around 1,500
damage or a single shot DD for around 3,000 damage. The downside with the
spell would be that it didn't use Mana but used HPs. In order to make it a
real choice. Casting the spell would result in the Wizard going to minus 1
hp (i.e. unconscious but survivable) so he would die if the spell failed to
kill the mob or if he tried to use it to solo (any mob even a green that
walked by would one shot him).
Gray Eagle
other.. and his spells should only save to half damage.. not just bounce
completely off high level creatures.
It's not as if some 20th wiz is gonna blast a giant with his 171 pt force
shock, saved to half damage by the giant.. the 20th wiz just does not have
the mana to dish out enough force shocks hitting for half damage to effect a
giant much.
It *would* make the wiz the damage dealer in his group, again.. when the big
red meany shows up and everyone is gettin pounded.. a wizards job is to be
artillery.. not some wuss in a dress who's spells bounce completely.
-GE
Sergey Dashevskiy
static.demon.co.uk says...
> A Wizard doesn't have the Mana to kill *anyone* at 50 because in PvP, DD
> does *not* do full damage. A funny example from recently, I wanted to pop
> down from Sky to get some food and drink so asked a Wizard to nuke me.
>
> I had already prepared by using Envenomed Bolt on myself, shedding around
> 800hps and leaving me at a tad over 400. My resistances in the outfit I was
> wearing were poor, with only 25 or so Magic Resistance and 25 SvCold.
> (Albeit as a caster with high Wisdom, I have a strong innate magical
> resistance).
>
> His first Rend barely scratched my bar, maybe 60 to 80 damage. I switched
> to the Inv screen to watch the next "blast" as his Ice Comet did 94.
> Finally a second Rend managed to kill me.
Last time I was screwing around duelling a level 50 wizard (me being a
35 bard at the moment), with full resistance buffs from a shaman, decent
resistance gear and my resistance songs (pushing my CR to about 160),
his Ice Comet was doing between 250 and 350 damage a pop. That's to
nearly a /con green character. He was most disappointed.
BTW, with his dagger he was doing less damage to me than I was
regenerating, while I was able to dual punch him for 4-7 a pop barely
missing
> Fair enough the Shaman is probably the strongest PvP class (damage plus
> healing plus pet, and of course in PvP Incapacitate works like Snare) but
> I've not heard of any class losing consistently to level 50 Wizards except
> when the Wizard uses "run and hide and med" which is generally frowned on in
> friendly duels.
Not sure about shamans, it probably depends on skills and classes of the
people duelling. I'd say a bard at 50 would give a shaman run for his
money, though the outcome of the duel would not be certain. However, EQ
was not balanced for PvP, as there are classes that would consistently
lose to other classes in duels (warrior to rogue, rogue to druid, most
melee classes to bard or enchanter, wizards to pretty much everyone,
etc)
Lyion
<posth...@x-static.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Lyion <rscottN...@senco.com.invalid> wrote
>> To add insult to injury Mages get Malosi in addition to pets.
>>
>> The Wizard was not designed with group combat in mind.
However,
>> on the other side you can solo your way from 30 to 50 with
ease,
>> especially with JBoots. Plus, the downtime other classes have
>> running to the bank, or to a new area isn't there. A nice
perk.
>
>JBoots are no longer an option. I wish people who levelled up
when the game
>was easy would start to realise that *basic* things they take
for granted
>are no longer available to new players.
>
Bullshit. I got Jboots last night at level 33 with a group of 6
of us. I believe JBoots are EASIER now. 4 of us got them in ONE
day, without a ridiculous long camp. Have a few friends clear S
Ro and the Ancient will spawn often in OOT.
>> At least Wizards can annihilate any class in a duel at 50 if
the
>> Wizard knows what he/she is doing.
>
>Fair enough the Shaman is probably the strongest PvP class
(damage plus
>healing plus pet, and of course in PvP Incapacitate works like
Snare) but
>I've not heard of any class losing consistently to level 50
Wizards except
>when the Wizard uses "run and hide and med" which is generally
frowned on in
>friendly duels.
Shadowstep, root, nuke, rinse repeat. Oh, and is there anything
the Shaman CAN'T do? A good wizard would eat your lunch in a
duel, even with high resists. Why wouldnt he use his skills in a
duel?
But then you can melee and kill a 50 Warrior in Planes Gear
without spells...
>
>> Not to mention the balancing of Wizards in beta destroyed
them.
>> They were a frighteningly powerful class. Now at high levels
>> they are too onesided.
>
>These two statements are contradictory.
>
>In general, Verant got their *aim* right for wizards, their DD
is the best
>and they managed to balance Root breakability pretty much spot
on, so a
>decent Wizard can solo fine all the way to 50.
>
Making root as weak as it is screwed the wizard class. Comparable
to nerfing the hell out of pets, since the root line is the
defining spell that allows Wizard to solo well. It would be
similar to making DOTs even more resistable. Now Wizards need
Jboots even more.
Any 50 is needed on the planes. Since a good Wizard can solo to
50 I'm missing your point here? At 50, things revolve around
doing the extraordinary, unless you are an item farmer.
Sam Posten III
>does *not* do full damage. A funny example from recently, I wanted to pop
>down from Sky to get some food and drink so asked a Wizard to nuke me.
That's just plain wrong. Though I guess if there is no exp penalty,
what would it hurt....
>I've not heard of any class losing consistently to level 50 Wizards except
>when the Wizard uses "run and hide and med" which is generally frowned on in
>friendly duels.
I've never dueled, but I' can't imagine NOT using run and invis during
a duel. The other guy can get see invis so what's the problem? If
you're gonna duel toe to toe, then DUH, of course the wizzies gonna
get smacked around. With resists as they are and root as broken as it
is, seems like it would be impossible to hope to kill an even conned
player of any class without hoping to med up in the middle.
>What Verant *didn't* understand was the importance of burn. No-one (at any
>level) should be using DD. If you are you are levelling more slowly than
>efficient players. That's the problem with Wizards, DD just isn't something
>any group should want.
I keep hoping to prove you wrong Alisdair. I've gotten to lvl 25 and
am very happy with my Wiz, he's fun to play. Yes, the downtime is
killer, but I keep myself occupied reading/TV while medding. But I'll
tell you this, I started druid and got him to 14 in just over a day of
played time and the difference between the two is night and day, he's
got so many more options and skills. I don't think the shaman is the
right class for me, but I can see how having all the skills they have
is enticing as well. The think I REALLY don't like about the Wiz is
how much of their spell book is focused on useless area of effect
spells, not in their DD. I wish there was more to do besides swing a
little, TP and burn...
I've never felt like a liability to my group using swings and DD (at
25 my swings are not impressive, but hardly insignificant, though I
wish the Staff of wrthing proc'ed now at this level where it would be
usefull...), but I know my swinging time is due to be cut short.
I wish Staff of the Wheel had a proc, that would just kick ass. (Got
7 rods so far)
We'll see.
Sam
Tony Kwan
was the first class to get nerfed in PVP. In fact the nerf has made them the
one of weakest PVP class there is. We do only 60% damage using the only
spell range we have. This means that the slow casting ice Comet will only do
660 damage per cast, this means that you will need to cast at least two of
these to kill a shaman.
Against a shaman, you don't have enough mana to keep shadow stepping. All
the high damage spells take a long time to cast. DD's do 60% damage. At
50, a shaman need only cast two spells on you to kill you. All they have to
do is cast their poison DOT on you and one, maybe two DD, and heal ANY
damage you may inflict on them. The Shamans pet will also interrupt any of
your high damage spells before you can cast any of your high damage DD.
Sure you can use Tishans to stun your opponent, but these have:
a) long recycle times,
b) are easily resisted
Sorry but I have to agree with Alasdair here, a shaman will eat a 50th
wizard, in fact most classes will.
"Lyion" <rscottN...@senco.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:008c5f50...@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com...
> >I've not heard of any class losing consistently to level 50
> Wizards except
> >when the Wizard uses "run and hide and med" which is generally
> frowned on in
> >friendly duels.
>
Sergey Dashevskiy
ttk...@bigpond.com says...
> All I can say Lyion, you have NO idea what you are talking about. Wizards
> was the first class to get nerfed in PVP. In fact the nerf has made them the
> one of weakest PVP class there is. We do only 60% damage using the only
> spell range we have. This means that the slow casting ice Comet will only do
> 660 damage per cast, this means that you will need to cast at least two of
> these to kill a shaman.
You forget to take into account people's resists. Level 50 wizard's Ice
Comet was doing about 300 damage a pop to a 35 bard (though I did have
over 160 CR)
Tony Kwan
160 CR! wow that is nice. I would have been surprised that he got any
damage on you! With that resistance, you could theoretically go on a Lady
Vox hunt now hehe.
"Sergey Dashevskiy" <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.131321a07...@news.msu.edu...
Sergey Dashevskiy
ttk...@bigpond.com says...
> Hehe I was using the KISS principle.
>
> 160 CR! wow that is nice. I would have been surprised that he got any
> damage on you! With that resistance, you could theoretically go on a Lady
> Vox hunt now hehe.
Uuh, not at level 37... Though I've seen that a level 50 bard can push
his entire group's resistances even higher than that...
Wich reminds me. One guy came up with a new game, duelling in a way.
Game called "chicken". 2 people jump in lava, first to come out loses. I
tried that with a 48 warrior and figured out that this game makes no
sense for a bard. Considering fire resistances and healing per tick, I
was taking about 5-8 damage a tick while he was taking about 30-40
Matt Frisch
<posth...@x-static.demon.co.uk> scribed into the ether:
>A Wizard doesn't have the Mana to kill *anyone* at 50 because in PvP, DD
>does *not* do full damage. A funny example from recently, I wanted to pop
>down from Sky to get some food and drink so asked a Wizard to nuke me.
Err, you mean real life food and drink? I hope you are aware than shamans
can summon up food and water :)
And I had read that you could fall off an island and zone out of sky, is
this no longer the case (if it ever was)?
Alasdair Allan
> >A Wizard doesn't have the Mana to kill *anyone* at 50 because in PvP, DD
> >does *not* do full damage. A funny example from recently, I wanted to
pop
> >down from Sky to get some food and drink so asked a Wizard to nuke me.
>
> what would it hurt....
>
except
> >when the Wizard uses "run and hide and med" which is generally frowned on
in
> >friendly duels.
>
> a duel.
What I mean is this :-
Wizard burns his entire bar of mana.
Other person stands there laughing. Moves in to kill the mana spent Wizard.
Wizard runs away and in lag moves out of sight.
Wizard meditates to full bar of mana.
Wizard returns burns his entire bar of mana.
Other person stands there laughing. Moves in to kill the mana spent Wizard.
Wizard runs away and in lag moves out of sight.
Etc...
With my Paladin in these situations I just give up. If you think this is a
justified tactic by the Wizard - basically boring someone until they concede
- then I think we have different ideas over what is acceptable.
abatt...@netscape.net
> : Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the end game you basically want to
> : be a Wizard, Warrior, Cleric or Enchanter.
> You're wrong.
he's not wrong, he's opinionated. opinions are never wrong as you cannot
prove them :-)
> In the end you want to be a tank, enchanter, necro or shaman (then
> magician then druid).
glad i'm a shaman then.
> : I never turn down a Wiz for my groups.
> You mustn't like making good experience.
i was making pretty good experience last night and there was a wizard in the
group... when he left we had a hard time doing a corpse retrieval (mino elder
room in lguk), we had no problem getting to the room before that.
of course, we only had one tank in the five people, doesn't help much, even
with an enchanter. but we did get the CR done :-)
--
josh
abatt...@netscape.net
> 660 damage per cast, this means that you will need to cast at least two of
> these to kill a shaman.
and if the shaman is fully buffed, maybe more :-)
> Against a shaman, you don't have enough mana to keep shadow stepping. All
> the high damage spells take a long time to cast. DD's do 60% damage. At
> 50, a shaman need only cast two spells on you to kill you. All they have to
> do is cast their poison DOT on you and one, maybe two DD, and heal ANY
> damage you may inflict on them. The Shamans pet will also interrupt any of
> your high damage spells before you can cast any of your high damage DD.
shamans are pretty rough indeed. between three dots (disease poison wolf), a
club that can smack you good, and healing themselves, a wizard would have a
rough time.
--
josh
Larry Smith
<<SNIP>>
>>he's not wrong, he's opinionated. opinions are never wrong as you cannot
>>prove them :-)
Philosophy 101.
Alasdair Allan
This could make a fun new duelling game.
Instead of the usual boring old duels with a ladder or knockout format have
a "Knock down the Wizard contest".
A Wizard fights the contestants one after another, the fights are timed and
whoever kills the Wizard with the fastest wins.
Sergey Dashevskiy
static.demon.co.uk says...
> What I mean is this :-
>
> Wizard burns his entire bar of mana.
>
> Other person stands there laughing. Moves in to kill the mana spent Wizard.
>
> Wizard runs away and in lag moves out of sight.
>
> Wizard meditates to full bar of mana.
>
> Wizard returns burns his entire bar of mana.
>
> Other person stands there laughing. Moves in to kill the mana spent Wizard.
>
> Wizard runs away and in lag moves out of sight.
>
> Etc...
>
> With my Paladin in these situations I just give up. If you think this is a
> justified tactic by the Wizard - basically boring someone until they concede
> - then I think we have different ideas over what is acceptable.
I tested this concept, he is correct. It's plain sad to see a level 50
wizard hit a level 35 bard with Ice Comet 3 times in a row for overall
of 850 damage (I mean all 3, not each). Provided that the said bard was
buffed with obscenely high cold resistance, but the level difference
should have fixed that problem. The wizard was pissed beyond any
comprehendable form -- he just poured most of his mana to hit an almost
green bard (that was not attacking back or trying to interrupt), and
didn't do enough damage to hill her.
Oh, my cold resistance was about 160 or more