YO, VERANT: Rant about Odus and Erudites
Desdinova
and Kerra Isle are almost always empty on the Innoruuk server. This
is because most of the new characters on Innoruuk are actually
experienced Innoruuk players looking to start a new character for
funsies. And experienced players know one thing that is true about
the continent of Odus:
Odus sucks.
I don't count Erud's Crossing as part of Odus, so that leaves
4 zones total on the entire continent of Odus: Erudin (erudnext),
Erudin Palace (erudnint), the Toxxulia Forest (tox), and Kerra Isle
(kerraridge).
Here is a list of some of the (again, IMHO) legitimate
problems with Odus.
* Not enough zones. I know that Verant is making 2 more zones
for Odus, Paineel and the Hole, but unless Paineel is a city in which
you can adventure (like Highpass and Highkeep), they're really only
adding 1 more adventuring zone to Odus, making it a total of 3
adventuring zones on Odus. And from what I hear, the Hole is going to
be a moderately high level dungeon, meaning that folks between 7th
level and 25th level won't have any reason to drop by. Odus could
really use a zone like East Karana, i.e. a good outdoor zone with a
variety of MOBs of varying levels. The Grand Plateau or the Barren
Coast (both listed on the map included with the game) would be perfect
for something like this.
* Poor design of existing zones. The Toxx is, IMHO, the worst
newbie zone in the game. Only the Feerrott comes close to the Toxx in
terms of low spawn rates and poor spawn density, and that's a problem
that only affects the 1st-4th level characters. When you hit 5th
level you can start taking the lizard men across the bridge.
Let's look at the newbie zones in the game:
North Qeynos, West Freeport, East Freeport: All three zones
have a massive spawn rate, incredible spawn density, and great
visibility. All for a race that doesn't suffer an XP penalty to level
and so doesn't need a higher spawn rate or greater spawn density.
Qeynos Hills, East Commonlands: The continuation of the Human
newbie zones, these also have high spawn rates, high spawn density,
and MOBs that can take you past 10th level (in Qeynos hills, fighting
dread corpses) or past 13th level (in East Commons fighting orcs).
Everfrost: Widely considered by many to be THE best newbie
zone in the game. Great visibility, even at night, due to the white
background of the mountains. Everfrost also has MOBs to support a
player well into his teen levels. A Barbarian could hunt in Everfrost
and never have to leave until he hit 16th level. Great loot from
these MOBs, and a high spawn rate and spawn density. Even better, the
canyons tend to channel the MOBs into a non-stop stream, so you don't
have to wander around looking for them at early levels. Just run down
the canyons a bit until you find one.
Innothule Swamp: Another great newbie zone, with a good spawn
rate and spawn density, and with MOBs that will take a troll to 10th
level and beyond. And low level MOBs that drop netted armor? What a
great way to get your newbie character fully armored without spending
a dime. And after you do that, you can just dump the netted to the
merchants for a nice hunk of change.
Feerrott: Low spawn density and spawn rate for the MOBs that
1st-4th level characters can hunt. Most experienced players hunt in
nearby Innothule for these levels. But after 4th level there are
lizardmen galore across the bridge.
Misty Thicket: Another zone that's considered one of the best
newbie zones in the game. MOBs that can take you to 13th-14th level
easily. The spawn rate and density isn't huge, but it's not bad,
either. A friend of mine spent 14th level killing goblins and orcs by
the hundreds in Misty Thicket in order to get the Squad Ring and she
still managed to inch slowly from 14th to 15th in the process.
Kithicor Forest: A decent newbie zone for 5th level players
and above. The only zone on Norrath with worse visibility than the
Toxx, but there are a few good static spawns here to make up for it,
including the Shralok orcs which can easily take you from 15th to 17th
level.
Nektulos: It's dark here, but hey, you're a dark elf with
ultravision. The spawn rates are low, and the wandering guards have a
tendency to steal kills. There are some MOBs here that will take you
past 10th level, though.
Butcherblock Mountains: Decent spawn rate and spawn density
near the entrance to Kaladim, some good higher level spawns farther
out (goblin warriors and dwarven bandits can take you to 13th-14th
level easy). Good loot, too.
Greater Faydark: Stuff is everywhere in this zone. Wolves
and wasps for the low level players, lots of Orc camps for the players
8th level and above. Good spawn rate and density.
Steamfont Mountains: The only newbie zone in the game that
comes close to offering the levelling ability, the loot and the
variety of MOBs that Everfrost offers. The mountains divide the zone
up into areas clearly defined by level, so 1st-4th level can hunt
rats, spiderlings and decaying skeletons in the area just to the left
of Ak'Anon, 5th-9th level can hunt areas farther away from Ak'Anon,
and when you get high enough of a level, you can start plumbing the
depths of the Minotaur caves. Great spawn density for 1st-4th level
characters, and a good spawn density for the other levels.
Compare all of this with:
Toxxulia Forest: Extremely limited visibility, especially
when it's nighttime and raining. (The other night-blind races have
newbie areas with excellent visibility at night.) Low spawn rate.
Low spawn density. If you look at a map of the zone, the extreme
southern portion of the landmass that's on the same side of the bridge
as the entrance to Erudin is *completely* unutilized. Almost nothing
spawns there. In fact, I'd say this is true for the extreme southern
portion of the zone on both sides of the river. The two static kobold
camps spawn slowly, and the highest level kobold that might spawn is
the 6th-7th level Kobold Sentry, which is rare compared to the lower
level Kobold Scouts, Watchers, and Shamans. So by 7th level, assuming
that you camp the Kobolds, you're only getting XP from about half the
ones that pop up (you'll get XP for about half the watchers and
shamans, and none at all for the scouts). All this for a race that is
reported to have a serious XP penalty. It's no wonder, then, that
most players once they learn the ropes, take their newbie Erudites
over to Qeynos where the spawn rate is significantly higher, more
dense, and easier to see.
"But wait!," you say. "They could go to Kerra Isle!" Sure,
they could go there. And get slaughtered. Kerra Isle suffers from
similarly poor design as the Toxx, but in a different way. The
Kerrans are all placed together in such a way that if you're aggro to
them, you'll pull multiple MOBs down on your head when you attack
them. Take an 8th level character over to the beach. By this time
you'll be able to take kerran males and kerran females with relative
ease. If you go to the beach and attack one, you'll find yourself
fending off about 5-7 more due to their placement and their aggro
range. And this will include not only kerran males and females, but
will also include huntresses and pridesmen (who are tougher). It gets
worse if you get to the higher levels and start hunting the
priestesses, clawknights, and high guards in the temple area. They
ALL seem to be linked in the village, and attacking a clawknight or a
high guard in the village is a prime way to get about a dozen
extremely irritated MOBs thwacking on your character. You haven't
seen a train until you've seen a Kerra Isle train (and if you want to
see a typical train from the village area, check out
http://users.erols.com/aburner/kerra03.html ). And unlike other train
prone dungeons (Blackburrow springs to mind), there are never enough
people in this zone to help you derail a train, nor are there ever
enough people here to keep the spawn rates down so that trains don't
start in the first place. So Kerra Isle is really only of any use to
parties below 10th level, and then only as long as they stay near the
bridge. But even this is dangerous because a High Guard (14th-16th
level MOB) spawns in the tunnel leading back to the Toxxulia forest,
i.e. right near where most of the newbies will be hunting. This would
be like having a Gnoll Commander in Blackburrow spawn right up top by
the entrance.
And as if all that weren't enough (and you'd certainly think
it would be), the city of Erudin itself is in dire need of some
adjustments. The design is fine, the city looks nice, and I enjoy
wandering around Erudin. But Erudin is the bag/pouch/backpack capital
of Norrath. There are two vendors in the Erudin Port Authority. One
of them sells bags/pouches/backpacks. There's a male vendor just
outside the Port Authority and he sells bags/pouches/backpacks. If
you go into the Palace, into the Erudin City Office, you'll find 3
merchants, all of whom sell bags/pouches/backpacks. If you go into
the store behind the provisioner's store in Erudin proper, you'll find
two merchants, both of whom sell bags/pouches/backpacks. There are
two merchants in the Toxx Forest who sell bags/pouches/backpacks.
That's 9 merchants that sell nothing but bags/pouches/backpacks.
That's pretty boring.
And the fact that there are 9 merchants in and around Erudin
that sell bags/pouches/backpacks is made even more unusual by the fact
that Erudin has the facilities for every trade in the game. There are
two casks/stills, a couple of ovens, a wheel/kiln, and a forge. But
you cannot get the raw materials for *any* trade skill in the game
except for Jewel Crafting (Sothure's Gems down in Erudin Palace) and
baking. And the only thing you can make with the baking skill is
Edible Goo (which requires a fire beetle eye and a rat ear, both of
which can be obtained in the Toxx).
* The nearest place to Erudin to get raw materials for
smithing is Highpass (for ore and sharpening stones) and Qeynos Hills
(for armor molds).
* The nearest place to Erudin to get raw materials for pottery
is Halas.
* The nearest place to Erudin to get baking ingredients is
West Karana.
* The nearest place to Erudin to get brewing ingredients is
Qeynos.
So in order to use the forge/kiln/wheel/oven/cask in Erudin, a
player would have to:
1) wait for the boat to take them from Erudin to Qeynos
2) pray that some boat bug doesn't dump them
3) run to get the appropriate materials
4) wait for the boat to take them back to Erudin
5) pray that some boat bug doesn't dump them
6) Conduct trade skill in Erudin
How many people do you think will really do the above,
especially considering that they'd have to go *through* Qeynos to get
back to Erudin to do all this, and given that Qeynos *also* has a
forge, an oven, a wheel/kiln, and a cask.
And for the trades that allow you to carry the kit around with
you (i.e. tailoring and fletching):
* The nearest place to Erudin to get fletching/bowyering
materials is Surefall Glade. The nearest place to buy a fletching kit
is South Qeynos.
* The nearest place to Erudin to get the wolf, lion, or bear
skins to make patchwork armor is Qeynos Hills (for wolf and bear) and
West Karana (for lions).
And we haven't even talked about the bugs that plague the city
of Erudin. The infamous Flying Shark bug, for example, continues to
occasionally resurface in the harbor. And there are two female NPCs
(called "The Dykes" by Erudites) on the Erudin docks who stand so
close to each other that they overlap and it looks like they're
kissing (hence their nickname). If you right-click on either of them,
you'll get the message that NPC merchants give when they've moved from
their normal spot, i.e. "Can't you see I'm doing something here?" or
"Sorry, I'm busy right now." No one knows who they are or what
they're for, but they've been there since I started playing in April.
And finally, there seems to be a recent bug that puts a couple of
guard members in the harbor. The last few times I've gone back to
Erudin, there's always been one of the high guard in the harbor, just
swimming in place.
And finally, no rant about Odus and Erudin would be complete
without mentioning how RILLY annoying the current boat/ferry set up is
for Erudin. If someone on the boat shouts "BOAT!" as soon as they
enter the zone, and if I am back by the entrance to the Toxxulia
forest, there is no way that I will make it to the ferry on time. If
you want to take the boat from Erudin to Qeynos, you will have to just
sit on your butt and wait because although the boat stays out in the
water for a while, the ferry leaves the dock as soon as the boat stops
and you only get one shot to get on the ferry. If you miss the ferry,
you get to wait for the next boat.
So.
There it is. My (much MUCH longer than I anticipated) rant
about Odus. My suggestions for fixing this problem are:
1) Add some new zones (which you're already doing, and for
which I thank you), especially some Karana-esque outdoor zones.
2) Add some new static spawn sites to the Toxx and increase
the spawn rate and spawn density of the stuff that's already there.
3) Increase the visibility. I know that during my brief
tenure as an Erudite wizard on Rallos Zek, there was a noticiable
difference between the visibility in the Toxx on that server (it was
much easier to see on Rallos Zek than it was on Innoruuk).
4) Redesign Kerra Isle to be less prone to training everything
in the area, possibly by reducing the aggro range of the Kerrans.
5) Ditch most of the bags/pouches/backpacks merchants and
replace them with something useful, like sketch vendors, clay vendors,
and so on.
6) Fix the long-term bugs.
7) Get rid of the ferry and just have the boat come in to dock
like it does for every other port city in the game.
Here's hoping that Verant agrees with me and decide to
implement some (or all) of my suggestions.
Desdinova EternalLight
Erudite Conjurer of the 6th Circle
Innoruuk
banky
Desdinova <abu...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:37bd853d....@news.rcn.com...
> In my previous post I alluded to the fact that the Toxx forest
> and Kerra Isle are almost always empty on the Innoruuk server. This
> is because most of the new characters on Innoruuk are actually
> experienced Innoruuk players looking to start a new character for
> funsies. And experienced players know one thing that is true about
> the continent of Odus:
>
> Odus sucks.
>
> I don't count Erud's Crossing as part of Odus, so that leaves
> 4 zones total on the entire continent of Odus: Erudin (erudnext),
> Erudin Palace (erudnint), the Toxxulia Forest (tox), and Kerra Isle
> (kerraridge).
>
> Here is a list of some of the (again, IMHO) legitimate
> problems with Odus.
>
> * Not enough zones. I know that Verant is making 2 more zones
> for Odus, Paineel and the Hole, but unless Paineel is a city in which
> you can adventure (like Highpass and Highkeep), they're really only
> adding 1 more adventuring zone to Odus, making it a total of 3
> adventuring zones on Odus. And from what I hear, the Hole is going to
> be a moderately high level dungeon, meaning that folks between 7th
> level and 25th level won't have any reason to drop by. Odus could
> really use a zone like East Karana, i.e. a good outdoor zone with a
> variety of MOBs of varying levels. The Grand Plateau or the Barren
> Coast (both listed on the map included with the game) would be perfect
> for something like this.
I agree here, odus needs more zones
>
> * Poor design of existing zones. The Toxx is, IMHO, the worst
> newbie zone in the game. Only the Feerrott comes close to the Toxx in
> terms of low spawn rates and poor spawn density, and that's a problem
> that only affects the 1st-4th level characters. When you hit 5th
> level you can start taking the lizard men across the bridge.
>
> Let's look at the newbie zones in the game:
>
> North Qeynos, West Freeport, East Freeport: All three zones
> have a massive spawn rate, incredible spawn density, and great
> visibility. All for a race that doesn't suffer an XP penalty to level
> and so doesn't need a higher spawn rate or greater spawn density.
> Qeynos Hills, East Commonlands: The continuation of the Human
> newbie zones, these also have high spawn rates, high spawn density,
> and MOBs that can take you past 10th level (in Qeynos hills, fighting
> dread corpses) or past 13th level (in East Commons fighting orcs).
Also the towns with the biggest population density save the Faydarks, so
yes, they do need the higher spawn rates
> Everfrost: Widely considered by many to be THE best newbie
> zone in the game. Great visibility, even at night, due to the white
> background of the mountains. Everfrost also has MOBs to support a
> player well into his teen levels. A Barbarian could hunt in Everfrost
> and never have to leave until he hit 16th level. Great loot from
> these MOBs, and a high spawn rate and spawn density. Even better, the
> canyons tend to channel the MOBs into a non-stop stream, so you don't
> have to wander around looking for them at early levels. Just run down
> the canyons a bit until you find one.
I love Everfrost, it is one of the greatest zones in the game, but look what
zones border, Permafrost, heh, forget that zone until about lvl 20 and
Blackburrow, train city camped like a boyscout jamboree, then you zone into
another newbie ground. So of course Everfrost will support a great range of
lvls, it has to....
> Innothule Swamp: Another great newbie zone, with a good spawn
> rate and spawn density, and with MOBs that will take a troll to 10th
> level and beyond. And low level MOBs that drop netted armor? What a
> great way to get your newbie character fully armored without spending
> a dime. And after you do that, you can just dump the netted to the
> merchants for a nice hunk of change.
If the evil trolls can find a vendor that will talk to them.
> Feerrott: Low spawn density and spawn rate for the MOBs that
> 1st-4th level characters can hunt. Most experienced players hunt in
> nearby Innothule for these levels. But after 4th level there are
> lizardmen galore across the bridge.
Never been there, no comment
> Misty Thicket: Another zone that's considered one of the best
> newbie zones in the game. MOBs that can take you to 13th-14th level
> easily. The spawn rate and density isn't huge, but it's not bad,
> either. A friend of mine spent 14th level killing goblins and orcs by
> the hundreds in Misty Thicket in order to get the Squad Ring and she
> still managed to inch slowly from 14th to 15th in the process.
> Kithicor Forest: A decent newbie zone for 5th level players
> and above. The only zone on Norrath with worse visibility than the
> Toxx, but there are a few good static spawns here to make up for it,
> including the Shralok orcs which can easily take you from 15th to 17th
> level.
Good zones, but again look at what is next to these zones, RunnyEye, the
Gorge, Highpass, and the Commons, see comment about Everfrost..
> Nektulos: It's dark here, but hey, you're a dark elf with
> ultravision. The spawn rates are low, and the wandering guards have a
> tendency to steal kills. There are some MOBs here that will take you
> past 10th level, though.
With wandering mobs in the newbie area that make lvl 10 run for the
guards...yeah, great zone
> Butcherblock Mountains: Decent spawn rate and spawn density
> near the entrance to Kaladim, some good higher level spawns farther
> out (goblin warriors and dwarven bandits can take you to 13th-14th
> level easy). Good loot, too.
I love this zone too....good design
> Greater Faydark: Stuff is everywhere in this zone. Wolves
> and wasps for the low level players, lots of Orc camps for the players
> 8th level and above. Good spawn rate and density.
Also largest poplution on Norrath, makes China look like a trailer park
> Steamfont Mountains: The only newbie zone in the game that
> comes close to offering the levelling ability, the loot and the
> variety of MOBs that Everfrost offers. The mountains divide the zone
> up into areas clearly defined by level, so 1st-4th level can hunt
> rats, spiderlings and decaying skeletons in the area just to the left
> of Ak'Anon, 5th-9th level can hunt areas farther away from Ak'Anon,
> and when you get high enough of a level, you can start plumbing the
> depths of the Minotaur caves. Great spawn density for 1st-4th level
> characters, and a good spawn density for the other levels.ther night-blind
races have
With those wandering diseased rats, the Hero that kills everything and
skeletons that stomp on people until your about lvl 12...
What kind of High man belittles himself with menial tasks of smithing and
pottery. If you want to make money and powerlvl, you picked the wrong spot
to, but if you want good RP possibilities you have come to a wonderful spot.
> 1) wait for the boat to take them from Erudin to Qeynos
> 2) pray that some boat bug doesn't dump them
> 3) run to get the appropriate materials
> 4) wait for the boat to take them back to Erudin
> 5) pray that some boat bug doesn't dump them
> 6) Conduct trade skill in Erudin
>
> How many people do you think will really do the above,
> especially considering that they'd have to go *through* Qeynos to get
> back to Erudin to do all this, and given that Qeynos *also* has a
> forge, an oven, a wheel/kiln, and a cask.
>
> And for the trades that allow you to carry the kit around with
> you (i.e. tailoring and fletching):
>
> * The nearest place to Erudin to get fletching/bowyering
> materials is Surefall Glade. The nearest place to buy a fletching kit
> is South Qeynos.
> * The nearest place to Erudin to get the wolf, lion, or bear
> skins to make patchwork armor is Qeynos Hills (for wolf and bear) and
> West Karana (for lions).
See comment above
>
> And we haven't even talked about the bugs that plague the city
> of Erudin. The infamous Flying Shark bug, for example, continues to
> occasionally resurface in the harbor.
Happens all over, not just Erud
And there are two female NPCs
> (called "The Dykes" by Erudites) on the Erudin docks who stand so
> close to each other that they overlap and it looks like they're
> kissing (hence their nickname). If you right-click on either of them,
> you'll get the message that NPC merchants give when they've moved from
> their normal spot, i.e. "Can't you see I'm doing something here?" or
> "Sorry, I'm busy right now." No one knows who they are or what
> they're for, but they've been there since I started playing in April.
Theres a pair like this in Halas too...in the Shaman guild, have you done a
bug report, I have.
> And finally, there seems to be a recent bug that puts a couple of
> guard members in the harbor. The last few times I've gone back to
> Erudin, there's always been one of the high guard in the harbor, just
> swimming in place.
>
Again, all over, even in Neriak
> And finally, no rant about Odus and Erudin would be complete
> without mentioning how RILLY annoying the current boat/ferry set up is
> for Erudin. If someone on the boat shouts "BOAT!" as soon as they
> enter the zone, and if I am back by the entrance to the Toxxulia
> forest, there is no way that I will make it to the ferry on time. If
> you want to take the boat from Erudin to Qeynos, you will have to just
> sit on your butt and wait because although the boat stays out in the
> water for a while, the ferry leaves the dock as soon as the boat stops
> and you only get one shot to get on the ferry. If you miss the ferry,
> you get to wait for the next boat.
Sort of like butcherblock, If you are waiting for a boat, wait for a boat,
learn the schedule and you'll know when to be there, the do run on a
schedule
lo wang
remember how much "fun" it was in a group pulling the standard 3-4
linked kerrans to the entrance tunnel, and then having the high guard
suddenly start smacking/stunning me from behind. the only thing you
could do to avoid getting beat down while resting or meditating was to
sit right in front of the zone line. that way, if he spawned, you
only had to get up and run a few steps to get away. I really want to
know why they would make such a high level creature spawn right at the
entrance like that. I mean, it's not like the erudites that would
hunt in there would have many hp anyway, being mostly wizards,
magicians and enchanters. and with the high guard being that much
higher level than the them, he resists practically all the spells you
throw at him.
Davian
banky <den...@imcnet.net> wrote in message
news:cmhv3.13122$x04.7...@typ11.nn.bcandid.com...
> >
> > So in order to use the forge/kiln/wheel/oven/cask in Erudin, a
> > player would have to:
>
> What kind of High man belittles himself with menial tasks of smithing and
> pottery. If you want to make money and powerlvl, you picked the wrong spot
> to, but if you want good RP possibilities you have come to a wonderful
spot.
>
I don't know. I think it would be a bit unfufilling to roleplay to an empty
zone.
Even during primetime, I've never, ever seen more than 8 people in the
entire zone. And usually half of them are just passing through on the boat.
I'd agree with the orignial poster, theres a reason why nobody uses that
continent. The entire place sucks, and is in serious need of improvements.
Davian
Shane Bole
im so sick of that place, they should make it do if you pull one, 50 of them
wont charge at you. the whole hardbor is probobly flooded with HG's
Davian <n...@e.mail> wrote in message
news:7pl61c$kt0$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> banky <den...@imcnet.net> wrote in message
> news:cmhv3.13122$x04.7...@typ11.nn.bcandid.com...
>
>
> > >
> > > So in order to use the forge/kiln/wheel/oven/cask in Erudin, a
> > > player would have to:
> >
> > What kind of High man belittles himself with menial tasks of smithing
and
> > pottery. If you want to make money and powerlvl, you picked the wrong
spot
> > to, but if you want good RP possibilities you have come to a wonderful
> spot.
> >
>
Roger Williams
> In my previous post I alluded to the fact that the Toxx forest
> and Kerra Isle are almost always empty on the Innoruuk server. This
> is because most of the new characters on Innoruuk are actually
> experienced Innoruuk players looking to start a new character for
> funsies. And experienced players know one thing that is true about
> the continent of Odus:
> Odus sucks.
In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no. I don't know about Innoruuk,
but there are actually a lot of Erudites on Quellious (I play an Erudite
paladin on there). I'll address some of the other issues you raise (and
you raise a lot of interesting points!) as I see them. I have snipped for
brevity ...
> Here is a list of some of the (again, IMHO) legitimate
> problems with Odus.
> * Not enough zones. I know that Verant is making 2 more zones
> for Odus, Paineel and the Hole, but unless Paineel is a city in which
> you can adventure (like Highpass and Highkeep), they're really only
> adding 1 more adventuring zone to Odus, making it a total of 3
> adventuring zones on Odus. And from what I hear, the Hole is going to
> be a moderately high level dungeon, meaning that folks between 7th
> level and 25th level won't have any reason to drop by. Odus could
> really use a zone like East Karana, i.e. a good outdoor zone with a
> variety of MOBs of varying levels. The Grand Plateau or the Barren
> Coast (both listed on the map included with the game) would be perfect
> for something like this.
I completely agree. There needs to be more variety, and more places
that will bring other races to Odus. Right now, all we see is the
occasional gnome cleric trying to kill the Kerran high priestess for some
quest, and even then nobody above level 20 or so bothers coming to Odus
for anything.
In a way, this is good. It forces Erudites to see the world a bit, and
leaves our continent thinly settled. This isn't as always bad as it
sounds, since it leaves Odus for Erudites (that could be a slogan: "Odus
for Erudites!").
> * Poor design of existing zones. The Toxx is, IMHO, the worst
> newbie zone in the game. Only the Feerrott comes close to the Toxx in
> terms of low spawn rates and poor spawn density, and that's a problem
> that only affects the 1st-4th level characters. When you hit 5th
> level you can start taking the lizard men across the bridge.
I will agree, but - the Toxx also builds you up for anything in the
game. The density isn't that bad, and you can always kill rats, skunks,
kobold runts and skeletons until you're bug enough to cross the bridge for
the tougher kobold camps. Even with the higher than normal number of
Erudites on Quellious, there are enough of the tougher kobolds on the
other side of the Toxxulia bridge to hold you until you're ready for the
skeleton mines and Kerra Isle (more about Kerra later).
> Toxxulia Forest: Extremely limited visibility, especially
> when it's nighttime and raining. (The other night-blind races have
> newbie areas with excellent visibility at night.)
This is true. You will stumble around a lot. However, before very long,
you can find your way around in the dark with nothing more than sense
heading. I'm level 7, and all I need is a fire beetle eye and I can
navigate the Toxx like I had infravision. The lack of landmarks is a bit
problematic until you reach that point, though.
> Low spawn rate.
> Low spawn density. If you look at a map of the zone, the extreme
> southern portion of the landmass that's on the same side of the bridge
> as the entrance to Erudin is *completely* unutilized. Almost nothing
> spawns there. In fact, I'd say this is true for the extreme southern
> portion of the zone on both sides of the river. The two static kobold
> camps spawn slowly, and the highest level kobold that might spawn is
> the 6th-7th level Kobold Sentry, which is rare compared to the lower
> level Kobold Scouts, Watchers, and Shamans.
This is true. By this time, you're ready to take your chances in Kerra
and the skel mines.
> So by 7th level, assuming
> that you camp the Kobolds, you're only getting XP from about half the
> ones that pop up (you'll get XP for about half the watchers and
> shamans, and none at all for the scouts). All this for a race that is
> reported to have a serious XP penalty.
Erudites, as a race, do not have an XP penalty. Hybrid classes, IIRC,
have a 25% penalty. As a paladin, I have it. Clerics and the other "pure"
classes do not. This means Erudite magicians and Enchanters can have a
field day, *especially* since a magic using Erudite will have an intelligence
of 117! That can come in VERY useful.
However, since there are no Erudite warriors, they have to rely on
Paladins (and Erudites are the weakest Paladins in terms of strength, hit
points, and endurance) to tank. I don't think it's as bad as it is
different.
Necromancers have more of a challenge since the guards in Erud will
slice and dice them. Then again, for some people, challenge is the name of
the game.
> It's no wonder, then, that
> most players once they learn the ropes, take their newbie Erudites
> over to Qeynos where the spawn rate is significantly higher, more
> dense, and easier to see.
True, some do, some don't. Maybe this is the case on Innoruuk.
> "But wait!," you say. "They could go to Kerra Isle!"
And we do. Once we hit about level 6 or 7.
> Sure, they could go there. And get slaughtered. Kerra Isle suffers
> from similarly poor design as the Toxx, but in a different way. The
> Kerrans are all placed together in such a way that if you're aggro to
> them, you'll pull multiple MOBs down on your head when you attack
> them. Take an 8th level character over to the beach. By this time
> you'll be able to take kerran males and kerran females with relative
> ease. If you go to the beach and attack one, you'll find yourself
> fending off about 5-7 more due to their placement and their aggro
> range.
This is generally the case if there's nobody else in there. On
Quellious, this is rarely the case. In fact, we often have to go into the
temple area and taunt/launch spells at the males, females, huntresses and
pridesmen to lure them out closer to the bridge.
> And this will include not only kerran males and females, but
> will also include huntresses and pridesmen (who are tougher). It gets
> worse if you get to the higher levels and start hunting the
> priestesses, clawknights, and high guards in the temple area. They
> ALL seem to be linked in the village, and attacking a clawknight or a
> high guard in the village is a prime way to get about a dozen
> extremely irritated MOBs thwacking on your character.
Yep, that's why it pays to be near the bridge and run for the zone.
With a full party of level 7 - 12 characters though, you can usually fend
off the single high guard and clawknight AND the ineffectual males and
females. However, you NEED a cleric in the party to clean up! The single
biggest problem with people going into Kerra is bad party balance. You are
supposed to think about the composition of a party before you go hunting.
I see people in there with parties of all necros, or all wizards, or all
paladins. You need the right MIX if you're going to survive in Kerra for
long, and I don't think that's bad..
However, as noted, the design of the level is not as good as other
areas, but it's still an ok place to hunt for XPs (terrible for loot -
there's nothing to loot on Odus at all).
> So Kerra Isle is really only of any use to parties below 10th level, and
> then only as long as they stay near the bridge. But even this is
> dangerous because a High Guard (14th-16th level MOB) spawns in the
> tunnel leading back to the Toxxulia forest, i.e. right near where most
> of the newbies will be hunting.
Like I said, with the right mix, you can protect yourself to a very
large degree, although you have to stick close to the bridge.
> And as if all that weren't enough (and you'd certainly think
> it would be), the city of Erudin itself is in dire need of some
> adjustments. The design is fine, the city looks nice, and I enjoy
> wandering around Erudin.
I think we disagree here, too. The city looks like it was thrown
together in hurry compared to amazing cities like Ak'Anon or even
Freeport. It's tiny, and although the library is a nice touch, there's
nothing to see. Don't even get me going on the tower, either, or on the
cheesy teleporter gems.
> And the fact that there are 9 merchants in and around Erudin
> that sell bags/pouches/backpacks is made even more unusual by the fact
> that Erudin has the facilities for every trade in the game. There are
> two casks/stills, a couple of ovens, a wheel/kiln, and a forge. But
> you cannot get the raw materials for *any* trade skill in the game
> except for Jewel Crafting (Sothure's Gems down in Erudin Palace) and
> baking. And the only thing you can make with the baking skill is
> Edible Goo (which requires a fire beetle eye and a rat ear, both of
> which can be obtained in the Toxx).
As noted elsewhere, why would a high man bother with arts and crafts
when they can dabble in magic and other arts? It makes money tight for a
while, but the Erudites are a scholarly people. If you do want to engage
in crafts, however, you're in for a rough ride as you note.
So how do Erudites make money? Well, we find ways. Low levels fish for
money and food. Once you're a bit higher, however, there are certain
things you can do. Here's how I've earned money in a quick time.
Erudites have an extraordinary intelligence. We learn new languages
VERY quickly. By level 5, I learned Tierdal (dark elf), Troll, Barbarian,
High Elf, Gnome, and Wood Elf. All excellent.
So what I've done is talk to other races in their own language while on
the boat to Qeynos. What I usually hear is "Wow! Where did you learn
that?!". I tell them. I offer to teach them whatever language it is for a
platinum or two. Most people jump at the chance to learn troll without
having to go to the Troll city (and getting beaten to death by the
guards). It takes most other races a lot longer to learn these languages,
but with the group tell/spam method, they'll be speaking excellent
whatever within 45 minutes or so. The more intelligent races pick up even
quicker. It's a nice little thing all Erudites, especially the ones with
117 intelligence, can do for some cash, and it's not as "lowly" as bread
making, and all that other menial stuff (it's far more profitable, too).
I should probably keep that quiet lest Verant snuff that out, too.
> And we haven't even talked about the bugs that plague the city
> of Erudin. The infamous Flying Shark bug, for example, continues to
> occasionally resurface in the harbor. And there are two female NPCs
> (called "The Dykes" by Erudites) on the Erudin docks who stand so
> close to each other that they overlap and it looks like they're
> kissing (hence their nickname). If you right-click on either of them,
> you'll get the message that NPC merchants give when they've moved from
> their normal spot, i.e. "Can't you see I'm doing something here?" or
> "Sorry, I'm busy right now." No one knows who they are or what
> they're for, but they've been there since I started playing in April.
> And finally, there seems to be a recent bug that puts a couple of
> guard members in the harbor. The last few times I've gone back to
> Erudin, there's always been one of the high guard in the harbor, just
> swimming in place.
I've bug reported that. I haven't seen the flying shark on Quellious in
a while, although it made an encore appearance two weeks ago. I jumped off
the boat before it boarded in Erud a while ago and found a shark hovering
about 6 feet off the water off the coast. It's good to see some things
never change!
> And finally, no rant about Odus and Erudin would be complete
> without mentioning how RILLY annoying the current boat/ferry set up is
> for Erudin. If someone on the boat shouts "BOAT!" as soon as they
> enter the zone, and if I am back by the entrance to the Toxxulia
> forest, there is no way that I will make it to the ferry on time. If
> you want to take the boat from Erudin to Qeynos, you will have to just
> sit on your butt and wait because although the boat stays out in the
> water for a while, the ferry leaves the dock as soon as the boat stops
> and you only get one shot to get on the ferry. If you miss the ferry,
> you get to wait for the next boat.
Yep. That's kind of annoying. Although when newcomers see the ferry
that start oohing and aahing about how neat it is. It got old for me
quick.
> So.
> There it is. My (much MUCH longer than I anticipated) rant
> about Odus. My suggestions for fixing this problem are:
> 1) Add some new zones (which you're already doing, and for
> which I thank you), especially some Karana-esque outdoor zones.
I agree. Utilize the areas already on the map, especially the coast. A
new beach type zone, maybe with aquatic type monsters.
> 2) Add some new static spawn sites to the Toxx and increase
> the spawn rate and spawn density of the stuff that's already there.
I don't know that this is a problem. After all, with fewer Erudites
than most other races, the spawn density should be a bit lower.
> 3) Increase the visibility. I know that during my brief
> tenure as an Erudite wizard on Rallos Zek, there was a noticiable
> difference between the visibility in the Toxx on that server (it was
> much easier to see on Rallos Zek than it was on Innoruuk).
Again, I disagree. I liked the challenge of having to find my way
around in the dark. And you can always buy a torch or lantern. I would
imagine any new outdoor zone would be easier to see in anyways. I think
the visibility is fine as is (which is bad).
I didn't see any difference between the visibility on Quellious and the
new Tribunal server, but that's an admittedly limited comparison.
> 4) Redesign Kerra Isle to be less prone to training everything
> in the area, possibly by reducing the aggro range of the Kerrans.
A good party balance can overcome that. Think one cleric, one tank, and
some magicians/spellcasters. No problem, even if a clawknight joins the
fray. However, spreading them out a little more would be helpful.
> 5) Ditch most of the bags/pouches/backpacks merchants and
> replace them with something useful, like sketch vendors, clay vendors,
> and so on.
I disagree. High men have no business with those trifles. Erudites
belong in a library. Leave the arts and crafts to gnomes and dwarves. They
like to work with their hands!
> 6) Fix the long-term bugs.
Agreed. Whole heartedly.
> 7) Get rid of the ferry and just have the boat come in to dock
> like it does for every other port city in the game.
I have to agree here, too.
--
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{} RogerW rog...@newsguy.com {} 0< -- parrot.net!
{} http://www.parrot.net ad...@parrot.net {} ^^^^(*)^^^^
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Desdinova
>Also spracht Desdinova <abu...@rcn.com>:
<cue 2001 theme music>
> In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no. I don't know about Innoruuk,
>but there are actually a lot of Erudites on Quellious (I play an Erudite
>paladin on there).
There are quite a few on Brell Serilis as well. Doing a /who
all Erud <blah> (where <blah> takes on the values "wiz," "mag," "pal,"
"cle," and so on) on Innoruuk during peak hours will get you a list of
all the non-anon Erudite wizards, magicians, paladins, clerics, and so
on. And on Innoruuk, during peak hours, none of these lists ever
gives you the "Your list was cut short. Too many players." message
(which occurs after 20 names). A /who all Erud Mag on Brell, on the
other hand, will give you the "Too many players" message during peak
hours.
Also noticed a lot more Erudite clerics and paladins on Brell.
> I completely agree. There needs to be more variety, and more places
>that will bring other races to Odus. Right now, all we see is the
>occasional gnome cleric trying to kill the Kerran high priestess for some
>quest, and even then nobody above level 20 or so bothers coming to Odus
>for anything.
Dunno about that. Mitty drops one of the things needed to
complete the Paw of Oppolla quest. A co-worker of mine who plays a
32nd level druid has been camping Mitty for a few days.
> I will agree, but - the Toxx also builds you up for anything in the
>game.
Eh, I used to think this way as well. This was back when my
experience with newbie zones consisted of the Toxx, the canyons of
Everfrost (not the plains), and North Qeynos. But I've seen other
newbie zones since then, and I don't feel that way any more. It's
just too limited. Start a troll character and play in the Innothule
Swamp for a while. Start a Barbarian character and play in Everfrost.
I'm not kidding when I say that both of these zones will take a newbie
up to 15th level and maybe beyond.
> This is true. You will stumble around a lot. However, before very long,
>you can find your way around in the dark with nothing more than sense
>heading. I'm level 7, and all I need is a fire beetle eye and I can
>navigate the Toxx like I had infravision. The lack of landmarks is a bit
>problematic until you reach that point, though.
This is the only advantage for later in the game that living
in the Toxx will provide. I honed my skills at flying on instruments
to a razor's edge in my newbie days in the Toxx. But the talent is
often wasted, since the other zones in Norrath have better visibility,
better landmarks, or both, thus making your navigating skills of
minimal usefulness. In fact, the only places I've found where my nav
skills were of use were the Ro Desert and South and West Karana
(because South and West K. are so frickin' huge). Haven't really used
them much outside of that.
> This is true. By this time, you're ready to take your chances in Kerra
>and the skel mines.
I dropped back by the Toxx last week. I'm 21st level.
Talrigar Eklorin was still red to me. There are only 2 skeletons in
that cave. It's not worth the risk, IMHO. :)
> Erudites, as a race, do not have an XP penalty.
They are rumored to have an XP penalty. But regardless,
humans get an XP bonus (or humans get normal XP and everyone else has
a penalty). It's one of their advantages. And their newbie zone is
significantly better than ours.
> However, since there are no Erudite warriors, they have to rely on
>Paladins (and Erudites are the weakest Paladins in terms of strength, hit
>points, and endurance) to tank. I don't think it's as bad as it is
>different.
I agree. One of my (burgeoning array of) other characters is
an Erudite Paladin.
> Necromancers have more of a challenge since the guards in Erud will
>slice and dice them. Then again, for some people, challenge is the name of
>the game.
I think you meant "guards in Qeynos" above.
>> It's no wonder, then, that
>> most players once they learn the ropes, take their newbie Erudites
>> over to Qeynos where the spawn rate is significantly higher, more
>> dense, and easier to see.
> True, some do, some don't. Maybe this is the case on Innoruuk.
No "maybes" about it. It's definitely the case on Innoruuk.
I'd wager that it's the case on all of the older servers because as a
server gets older, it moves farther and farther down the server list
when sorted by "Number of players online". I'm actually having to
scroll down these days to find the Innoruuk server on the server
selection page.
As this happens to a server, less and less newbie players (as
opposed to newbie characters) pick that server. Most newbie players
will, I imagine, pick the first non-PvP server in the list. Quellious
is a relatively new server (about as new now as Innoruuk was when I
started playing), so you're still getting an influx of people who've
never played the game. On Innoruuk (and, I'm guessing, on other older
servers) the newbie *characters* are being played by experienced
*players* who've already got at least one other character on the same
server.
>> "But wait!," you say. "They could go to Kerra Isle!"
> And we do. Once we hit about level 6 or 7.
Yep, I did too when I was around that level. But it was
really unsatisfying being restricted to the bridge. Say what you want
about Blackburrow, but at 7th level I can wander around BB quite a
bit, explore the place, and so on. At Kerra, you use the same
strategy with a party of 15th level players as you do with a party of
6th level players: Hug the bridge. Using any other strategy would be
suicide.
THIS WOULD NOT BE THE CASE IF THERE WERE OTHER REASONS FOR
OTHER RACES TO GO TO ODUS! THIS WOULD NOT BE THE CASE IF THE KERRANS
DROPPED DECENT LOOT! (I'm bitter. Can you tell?) I hosted a Kerra
Isle invasion on Innoruuk. (Story and pix at
http://www.erols.com/aburner/kerra.html) We peaked at 62 folks in the
zone. 40 folks in the zone is enough to clear the beach and keep it
clear, as well as putting a sizable dent in the village. And if you
have a lot of people in the zone, you keep the spawn manageable. A
kerran pops up and gets thwacked before any of its linked buddies show
up. This keeps the zone safe for exploration. But you're never going
to get that many people in the zone unless/until people from other
races have a consistent reason to go there other than "Let's just see
what Kerra Isle is like." They need a reason like "There's other
stuff on Odus to do" or "We can go to Kerra and get slightly better
loot than we can get here in Blackburrow, and it'll be less crowded."
> This is generally the case if there's nobody else in there. On
>Quellious, this is rarely the case. In fact, we often have to go into the
>temple area and taunt/launch spells at the males, females, huntresses and
>pridesmen to lure them out closer to the bridge.
Must be nice. Aside from the invasion I hosted (and if you
want something fun to do, host one on Quellious), I've never seen more
than 10 people in the zone.
> Yep, that's why it pays to be near the bridge and run for the zone.
But that's just so unsatisfying.
>With a full party of level 7 - 12 characters though, you can usually fend
>off the single high guard and clawknight AND the ineffectual males and
>females. However, you NEED a cleric in the party to clean up! The single
>biggest problem with people going into Kerra is bad party balance. You are
>supposed to think about the composition of a party before you go hunting.
>I see people in there with parties of all necros, or all wizards, or all
>paladins. You need the right MIX if you're going to survive in Kerra for
>long, and I don't think that's bad..
Eh, I do. You shouldn't have to have a specific party makeup
to adventure, because if you can't find that specific party (or if you
don't fit into that specific party), you're screwed. *ANY* party of
similar-level characters can rake in the XP and loot in BB.
> However, as noted, the design of the level is not as good as other
>areas, but it's still an ok place to hunt for XPs (terrible for loot -
>there's nothing to loot on Odus at all).
Yah. This is another gripe. "I can stay here in Blackburrow,
which is near my binding point, and kill gnolls which may net me some
cloth armor, weapons, and even a shield. Or I can go to Erudin, hope
that there's still someone there high enough to bind me there, run
over to Kerra Isle, kill Kerrans, and get...
...fish."
Not a real tough decision to make there.
>> And the fact that there are 9 merchants in and around Erudin
>> that sell bags/pouches/backpacks is made even more unusual by the fact
>> that Erudin has the facilities for every trade in the game. There are
>> two casks/stills, a couple of ovens, a wheel/kiln, and a forge. But
>> you cannot get the raw materials for *any* trade skill in the game
>> except for Jewel Crafting (Sothure's Gems down in Erudin Palace) and
>> baking. And the only thing you can make with the baking skill is
>> Edible Goo (which requires a fire beetle eye and a rat ear, both of
>> which can be obtained in the Toxx).
>
> As noted elsewhere, why would a high man bother with arts and crafts
>when they can dabble in magic and other arts?
Because Paladins and Clerics need armor?
Because Erudites gotta eat just like everybody else?
Because it's silly to put a faucet on the wall with no
connecting pipe?
Because it's silly to have 9 merchants in one area sell
Backpacks?
Because maybe I want to play an Erudite who has no
reservations about getting his hands dirty in the forge?
Sorry, but I think the "High men wouldn't dirty their hands"
argument is just lame. Trade skills add another dimension to the game
aside from the usual hack-n-slash. Only Trolls are as severely
hampered as Erudites in their ability to conduct trade in their
hometowns.
Roger Williams
This is an interesting postscript to that comment. Last night, I went
into Kerra and formed a party with another Erudite Paladin, two wizards, a
magician, and a half-elven ranger. All of us were level 7. During that
time, we handled two Kerran high guards, a Claw Knight, and more ordinary
Kerrans than we could count without anyone getting killed. No clerics,
either, although we (myself and the other Paladin) did have to lay on
hands once each.
Kerra isn't so hard if you get the right group going in.
Roger Williams
> Roger Williams <rog...@shell1.tiac.net> sez:
>>Also spracht Desdinova <abu...@rcn.com>:
> <cue 2001 theme music>
I like it!
>> In some ways, yes, and in some ways, no. I don't know about Innoruuk,
>>but there are actually a lot of Erudites on Quellious (I play an Erudite
>>paladin on there).
> There are quite a few on Brell Serilis as well. Doing a /who
> all Erud <blah> (where <blah> takes on the values "wiz," "mag," "pal,"
> "cle," and so on) on Innoruuk during peak hours will get you a list of
> all the non-anon Erudite wizards, magicians, paladins, clerics, and so
> on. And on Innoruuk, during peak hours, none of these lists ever
> gives you the "Your list was cut short. Too many players." message
> (which occurs after 20 names). A /who all Erud Mag on Brell, on the
> other hand, will give you the "Too many players" message during peak
> hours.
Erudites will always be popular with people interested in playing mages
because of the intelligence bonus. I don't think it's anything about Odus
that's stopping people from making Erudite characters, I think it's more a
case of other races being more popular for other role playing reasons.
>> I completely agree. There needs to be more variety, and more places
>>that will bring other races to Odus. Right now, all we see is the
>>occasional gnome cleric trying to kill the Kerran high priestess for some
>>quest, and even then nobody above level 20 or so bothers coming to Odus
>>for anything.
> Dunno about that. Mitty drops one of the things needed to
> complete the Paw of Oppolla quest. A co-worker of mine who plays a
> 32nd level druid has been camping Mitty for a few days.
Well, right. I noted that, but that's pretty specific, and very
sporadic. Nobody goes hunting in Odus over level 20. We basically went to
town and killed everything with a balanced group of level 7 players in
Kerra, and there's nowhere to go from there byt Erud's crossing (are we
counting that as Odus? I forget).
>> I will agree, but - the Toxx also builds you up for anything in the
>>game.
> Eh, I used to think this way as well. This was back when my
> experience with newbie zones consisted of the Toxx, the canyons of
> Everfrost (not the plains), and North Qeynos. But I've seen other
> newbie zones since then, and I don't feel that way any more. It's
> just too limited. Start a troll character and play in the Innothule
> Swamp for a while. Start a Barbarian character and play in Everfrost.
> I'm not kidding when I say that both of these zones will take a newbie
> up to 15th level and maybe beyond.
My newbie zones were in Qeynos and the Toxx, so I'll take your word
about Everfrost. Still, when you go underground, all that experience
stumbling around the dark will come in handy.
>> This is true. By this time, you're ready to take your chances in Kerra
>>and the skel mines.
> I dropped back by the Toxx last week. I'm 21st level.
> Talrigar Eklorin was still red to me. There are only 2 skeletons in
> that cave. It's not worth the risk, IMHO. :)
Hey, gather a party and kick his bony ass. He has it coming to him. Is
that all there is to that cave? Really? And then there's everything in the
necro area. The first thing I do when there are any level 30 Erudite
paladins on Quellious is to go in there and start mopping up.
>> Erudites, as a race, do not have an XP penalty.
> They are rumored to have an XP penalty. But regardless,
> humans get an XP bonus (or humans get normal XP and everyone else has
> a penalty). It's one of their advantages. And their newbie zone is
> significantly better than ours.
Perhaps someone could clear this up. I was aware that "hybrid" classes
suffered an XP penalty, but I did not think specific races did.
> I agree. One of my (burgeoning array of) other characters is
> an Erudite Paladin.
Erudite paladins rock. Their intelligence helps them learn all their
skills insanely fast, and it comes in handy when it's time to start
memorizing those cleric spells.
>> Necromancers have more of a challenge since the guards in Erud will
>>slice and dice them. Then again, for some people, challenge is the name of
>>the game.
> I think you meant "guards in Qeynos" above.
The necros in the Toxx are always shouting asking if anyone will go
into Erud and buy them this or that spell. I don't think the guards like
"heretics". I know I don't, being a paladin.
>>> "But wait!," you say. "They could go to Kerra Isle!"
>> And we do. Once we hit about level 6 or 7.
> Yep, I did too when I was around that level. But it was
> really unsatisfying being restricted to the bridge. Say what you want
> about Blackburrow, but at 7th level I can wander around BB quite a
> bit, explore the place, and so on. At Kerra, you use the same
> strategy with a party of 15th level players as you do with a party of
> 6th level players: Hug the bridge. Using any other strategy would be
> suicide.
I thought that too until last week. We strayed far away from the bridge
and went on a killing spree. High guard? No problem. Claw Knight? It's all
good in moderation. The mix, all level 7 and all Erudite except as noted:
2 paladins
1 half-elf ranger
2 wizards
1 magician
Bingo. We made mincemeat out of everything we saw in Kerra. Well,
except for Mitty. We'll be back for her a little later, though ...
> THIS WOULD NOT BE THE CASE IF THERE WERE OTHER REASONS FOR
> OTHER RACES TO GO TO ODUS! THIS WOULD NOT BE THE CASE IF THE KERRANS
> DROPPED DECENT LOOT! (I'm bitter. Can you tell?)
I can tell. I pick up the occasional gem there, but yeah, it's worthless
for loot. What can I say? They're cats. Cat MONKS, even. The guards at the
path to the temple carry gold, however, which is a damn improvement over
everything else on Odus. :)
> I hosted a Kerra Isle invasion on Innoruuk. (Story and pix at
> http://www.erols.com/aburner/kerra.html) We peaked at 62 folks in the
> zone. 40 folks in the zone is enough to clear the beach and keep it
> clear, as well as putting a sizable dent in the village. And if you
> have a lot of people in the zone, you keep the spawn manageable. A
> kerran pops up and gets thwacked before any of its linked buddies show
> up. This keeps the zone safe for exploration. But you're never going
> to get that many people in the zone unless/until people from other
> races have a consistent reason to go there other than "Let's just see
> what Kerra Isle is like." They need a reason like "There's other
> stuff on Odus to do" or "We can go to Kerra and get slightly better
> loot than we can get here in Blackburrow, and it'll be less crowded."
Nice pictures and story. We do "holy crusades" to eliminate heretical
Kerrans on Quellious now and again, but never anywhere near that number of
people! It can be a good place to get XP, but there's nothing to draw
people to it like Blackburrow. Come to think of it, being less crowded can
be an attraction in and of itself. I've only been there twice when there
weren't enough people to form a good hunting party.
>> This is generally the case if there's nobody else in there. On
>>Quellious, this is rarely the case. In fact, we often have to go into the
>>temple area and taunt/launch spells at the males, females, huntresses and
>>pridesmen to lure them out closer to the bridge.
> Must be nice. Aside from the invasion I hosted (and if you
> want something fun to do, host one on Quellious), I've never seen more
> than 10 people in the zone.
See above.
>> Yep, that's why it pays to be near the bridge and run for the zone.
> But that's just so unsatisfying.
Again, see above. I have now seen the holy light of Quellious with
regards to this strategy! Get the right mix of people, be brave, and
you'll be smacking the high guards around.
>>With a full party of level 7 - 12 characters though, you can usually fend
>>off the single high guard and clawknight AND the ineffectual males and
>>females. However, you NEED a cleric in the party to clean up! The single
>>biggest problem with people going into Kerra is bad party balance. You are
>>supposed to think about the composition of a party before you go hunting.
>>I see people in there with parties of all necros, or all wizards, or all
>>paladins. You need the right MIX if you're going to survive in Kerra for
>>long, and I don't think that's bad..
> Eh, I do. You shouldn't have to have a specific party makeup
> to adventure, because if you can't find that specific party (or if you
> don't fit into that specific party), you're screwed. *ANY* party of
> similar-level characters can rake in the XP and loot in BB.
Sure you do. That's an acceptable strategic obstacle. Let the challenge
dictate the mix of the party. Some situations need more mages, some need
more tanks. The numbers and strength of the Kerrans dictates two frontline
tanks, some healing (perfect for paladins!) and cannons the rest of the
way. I do think the XP payoff could be a little higher to make up for the
lack of loot, but ehh, I'm in it for the fun. :)
>> However, as noted, the design of the level is not as good as other
>>areas, but it's still an ok place to hunt for XPs (terrible for loot -
>>there's nothing to loot on Odus at all).
> Yah. This is another gripe. "I can stay here in Blackburrow,
> which is near my binding point, and kill gnolls which may net me some
> cloth armor, weapons, and even a shield. Or I can go to Erudin, hope
> that there's still someone there high enough to bind me there, run
> over to Kerra Isle, kill Kerrans, and get... ... fish.
Well, let them have their area. Odus is not a tourist destination after
all. I agree with your point that Odus needs new zones. With new zones
come new monsters, and new quests, and more players from different areas
to add to the mix. It will be interesting to see what Verant adds.
> Because maybe I want to play an Erudite who has no
> reservations about getting his hands dirty in the forge?
It's extremely out of character. You'd sooner see a high elf with a
pickup truck and a "BORN TO 4x4" bumper sticker tooling around Faydark.
This is the roleplaying element to a degree. Erudites are seen as aloof,
somewhat effette scholars. The Barbarians think the Erudites are sissies.
The Erudites look down on all but high elves as ignornant savages.
> Sorry, but I think the "High men wouldn't dirty their hands"
> argument is just lame. Trade skills add another dimension to the game
> aside from the usual hack-n-slash. Only Trolls are as severely
> hampered as Erudites in their ability to conduct trade in their
> hometowns.
I guess we agree to disagree. Have you tried selling language lessons
for money yet? :)
Desdinova
> Erudites will always be popular with people interested in playing mages
>because of the intelligence bonus. I don't think it's anything about Odus
>that's stopping people from making Erudite characters, I think it's more a
>case of other races being more popular for other role playing reasons.
Well, substitute "powerlevelling" for "role-playing" and I'd
probably agree with you. :)
> Well, right. I noted that, but that's pretty specific, and very
>sporadic. Nobody goes hunting in Odus over level 20. We basically went to
>town and killed everything with a balanced group of level 7 players in
>Kerra, and there's nowhere to go from there byt Erud's crossing (are we
>counting that as Odus? I forget).
I don't count it as Odus, personally. YMMV.
> My newbie zones were in Qeynos and the Toxx, so I'll take your word
>about Everfrost. Still, when you go underground, all that experience
>stumbling around the dark will come in handy.
Eh, by the time you get to the "going underground" part, you'll
have (at the very least) a fire beetle eye, thus making it somewhat
academic. As well, loc coordinates are of limited usefulness in zones with
lots of twisty passages (i.e. most dungeons), some of which might run above
or below other, similar passages. There are many places in Blackburrow
where you could have the same /loc, but be on a different level from
someone having the exact same /loc. I've found, after extensive
adventuring throughout the lands of Norrath, that /loc (and "flying on
instruments") is really only of any use in large outdoor areas, mountainous
outdoor areas, and foggy outdoor areas. You won't really need /loc in East
Karana, for example, since there are enough landmarks and since the
adventuring area is relatively small, and since the zone has excellent
visibility. It comes in useful in West and South Karana, however, due to
the size and homogenity of these zones.
>Is that all there is to that cave? Really?
Yep. This was one of the biggest dissapointments for me, ever, in
my EverQuest experience. I'm basically an explorer. I derive the majority
of my enjoyment of EverQuest from wandering around and seeing new places
(and finding new MOBs to kill). I ran across the skeleton cave when I was
5th level. There were two 12th level characters there who were attacking
the skeletons. At the time, the idea of someone being *twelfth* level just
astounded and amazed me. They told me that I didn't want to go into the
cave because it would be too tough for a 5th level character like me and
I'd have my head handed to me.
So I wandered off back to the kobold camps with my head filled with
visions of the myriad and numerous perils that lay beyond the entrance to
that cave, and I dreamed of the day when I, too, would be 12th level and
would have a chance of venturing cautiously into that cave to face the
peril.
Imagine, then, my profound disappointment when I finally entered
the cave at 10th level with a group of other Erudites and discovered that,
yep, there were only 2 skeletons in there, and the cave was a dead-end.
Turns out that the skeleton cave will, eventually, be the
passageway to Paineel, city of the Necromancers. The storyline is that the
skeletons are there mining out the passageway to reconnect Paineel to the
Toxx.
I suspect that what actually happened is that Odus was the last of
the three continents to get developed and EverQuest was rushed out the door
before Odus was finished.
> Perhaps someone could clear this up. I was aware that "hybrid" classes
>suffered an XP penalty, but I did not think specific races did.
I've heard different stories, so I always point out that it's
merely rumor that Erudites get an XP penalty over and above the penalty
that other non-humans get. (I've heard the same thing for trolls, too.)
It is, however, a definite fact that Humans get an XP bonus. And not only
do they get an XP bonus, but they get better newbie areas.
> The necros in the Toxx are always shouting asking if anyone will go
>into Erud and buy them this or that spell. I don't think the guards like
>"heretics". I know I don't, being a paladin.
That's just 'cause the merchants won't sell to them. They're not
KOS to the Erudite guards, but they're definitely KOS to the Qeynos guards.
Erudite Necros are pretty much forced to stay on Odus until they hit 8th
level and can invis themselves to get past the Qeynos guards.
> I thought that too until last week. We strayed far away from the bridge
>and went on a killing spree. High guard? No problem. Claw Knight? It's all
>good in moderation. The mix, all level 7 and all Erudite except as noted:
Sounds like fun. Maybe my new Erudite Cleric can find some fun in
Kerra that I didn't find there with Desdinova back in April and May.
> I can tell. I pick up the occasional gem there, but yeah, it's worthless
>for loot. What can I say? They're cats. Cat MONKS, even. The guards at the
>path to the temple carry gold, however, which is a damn improvement over
>everything else on Odus. :)
The paucity of decent loot on Kerra is even more evident to me now
that I've been playing a gnome warrior who's currently taking on the
Crushbone Orcs.
You can get *gobs* of money from Crushbone. It's just insane.
People pay 3gp for the Crushbone belts, 8gp for the Legionnaire
Shoulderpads, plus the usual array of change and loot from the rotting
corpses of the Orcs.
Paw and Blackburrow aren't as good for loot as CB, I've found, but
they ain't bad. BB gnolls occasionally drop a wooden shield which you can
either use (if you can equip such) or sell back to the merchants for 7 gold
and change. The Elites occasionally drop studded collars (AC 3, STR+1,
STA+1), spiked collars (AC 3, STR+3), and Onyx Earrings (AGI+2), and the
commanders can drop all of the above plus they may also drop Rusty Spiked
Shoulder Pads (STR+3, SV vs. MAGIC -5). (And speaking as someone who plays
an Erudite Paladin, you really owe it to yourself to go over to BB and
score some of these items. The Spiked Collar is damn handy for Erudite
Paladins, and since Erudites have the highest base Magic Resistance in the
game, the -10 to your MR from the spiked shoulderpads won't affect you
*that* much.)
Kerra, on the other hand, just doesn't have any loot to speak of.
And compare:
Crushbone: Bracers of battle, Crushmail, Dragoon Dirk, Shiny Brass
Shield
Paw: Snakeskin armor, Skull of Jhen Tra, Runed Totem Staff
Blackburrow: Spiked Collar, Studded Collar, Rusty Spiked Shoulder
Pads, Onyx Earrings
Kerra Isle: A ring that is useless in and of itself, and is only
useful as part of a Cleric/Druid/Shaman quest.
Is it any wonder nobody goes to Kerra?
>> Because maybe I want to play an Erudite who has no
>> reservations about getting his hands dirty in the forge?
>
> It's extremely out of character.
On the contrary. Erudites are arrogant, xenophobic, and insular.
They wouldn't bother importing goods from the lesser races; they'd make it
themselves so they could be assured that the item in question had been made
by an obviously superior race.
> I guess we agree to disagree. Have you tried selling language lessons
>for money yet? :)
Nope. That doesn't interest me nearly as much as does baking or
smithing. :)