Introspective - Paw. A broken dungeon.
stephenmcleod
levels since level 6. It has been and is always essentially
empty.
With fantastic architecture and interesting NPC's, what
are the problems with this dungeon in South Karanas and how
could it be fixed?
Paw is very similar to Blackburrow which is always crowded.
It is the source for several quest items (the only reason
most people ever go there at all) and for snakeskin items
which give minor magic resistance. Unfortunately, the Paw
experience is poisoned by several factors.
1: Too far away.
2: Too low level.
3: Nixx causes the dungeon to be a net eps loser
4: Treasures underpowered for the location.
1: Paw is too far from any binding spot. The nearest
binding spot is the Arena but most people don't learn about
it until after they are fed up with Paw and it's 22 minute
run from Qeynos. In fact, for the most part, only casters
adventure there because the cost for melee characters is too
high.
2: Given it's distance from the lowlevel areas and the
danger in the trip from arena, Paw is about 4-7 levels too
low. If every monster in Paw were boosted by 7 levels, it
would suddenly be a very good dungeon. A 7 minute run for
high level melee types who won't be attacked by the lions
and wolves.
3: Nixx only appears when a certain NPC is killed.
Unfortunately, there is no way to know this is coming. Nixx
kills everyone in the dungeon under about 20th level with
little or no warning. I think when the NPC who summons Nixx
is attacked it should shout something dungeon wide. This
way you know you have a 3 minutes to get out before Nixx
appears and kills you.
4: Given the location, the magic items are mostly taken by
high levels and sold to low levels. By the time you are
powerful enough to go to Paw, you don't need the items
there.
Possible solutions
1: If you want to keep it a low level dungeon, then allow
binding at the Centaur "City". If you want to adjust it to
being a higher level dungeon (a great idea with folks
starting to pile up in the level 20-35 range), then leave
the centaur city would *still* be a much more useful binding
spot than arena.
2: If you decide to adjust it, just raise the levels of
every gnoll by about 7 levels. Now you need to be 15 just to
get in the door and in the 30's to take the commander.
3: Have Fairpaw? (the gnoll who is killed that causes nixx
to appear) shout when attacked so folks can decide to stay
or get the heck out. It's a nice anti-camping solution--
while everyone waits for Nixx to be dealt with, the rooms
respawn fully.
4: Upgrade the magic items. One possibility- snakeskin
gloves provide magical attacks for monks. Otherwise, change
them from +5 to +7 and other minor tweaks. Add some new
items which are not spectacular but just add interest like a
series of +2 stat rings. But this is the area for which I
have the least sense of reasonableness and balance.
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Justin G
have always gone there and leveled extremely quick from 4-12. With no one
around to bother me, train me or take up the respawn, it is great! I wish
there were more dungeons like it..
stephenmcleod <stephenmcl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2750ac20...@usw-ex0106-043.remarq.com...
Skate
closer to bind points.. if your not willing to make the run and take the
risk.. dont go.
Brett Hawn
BRAVO, 3 cheers for the twink who's never had to run across seriously
unpleasant territory butt naked with no weapons to defend themselves with.
Brian Cully
Brett Hawn <pir...@erols.com> wrote:
>BRAVO, 3 cheers for the twink who's never had to run across seriously
>unpleasant territory butt naked with no weapons to defend themselves with.
*shrugs*
I used to go to Paw all the time between levels 7 and 13 (or
there-abouts, it was a long time ago). It was a hell of a trek,
but the dungeon was always close to empty, so there were fewer
trains and much less competition than Black Burrow, the loot was
better, and it was a much more interesting looking dungeon, with
a nicer layout than Black Burrow.
Sure, I died a few times there, and the trek across West K was
always annoying, but then again, I found my blood pumping a lot
more when I knew I had to get out or go through that again, so it
was more fun.
As for unpleasant territory, yah, I guess it was moderately risky,
but mostly it was just a long run. But when I die now in Najena,
Solusek, Guk, or Cazic, it's still not that dangerous, just a long
run.
Anyway, I, for one, am not upset about not being able to bind
anywhere. It makes the risk of death, and the subsequent escape,
that much more entertaining.
Am I one of the few people left who still likes this game, or what?
I sure feel like I'm preaching to the damned. But then again, after
reading Kerry Jane's UO stories, I'm remembering how much fun I
had there, too. Maybe we should all go back to UO? :-)
Archi Tuttle
Monk at Large
Innoruuk
Stupid
>Spoken like a true caster.
>
>BRAVO, 3 cheers for the twink who's never had to run across seriously
>unpleasant territory butt naked with no weapons to defend themselves with.
As a non-casting Paladin, I found Paw to be a veritable treasure
trove. I started there at level six and worked up to eleven in a
matter of hours. Yeahm the run was a pain in the ass, but it kept the
"idiot factor" really low, and the only trains that killed me were
ones that -I- started.
Don't change Paw at all!
Des Herriott
>
> 3: Nixx only appears when a certain NPC is killed.
> Unfortunately, there is no way to know this is coming. Nixx
> kills everyone in the dungeon under about 20th level with
> little or no warning. I think when the NPC who summons Nixx
> is attacked it should shout something dungeon wide. This
> way you know you have a 3 minutes to get out before Nixx
> appears and kills you.
Your article raises some good points, but I have to disagree with this
one - sure, a warning about Nixx might be a good idea, but he's not as
lethal as you think.
I adventured in Paw at 16th level, along with four other 16th levels -
in all we were 2 clerics, a warrior, a druid and a rogue. We got
attacked by Nixx once, and we killed him, losing only our warrior in
the process (and he would have survived if my heal hadn't fizzled at
just the wrong moment - grr :-)
Nixx is certainly dangerous, but he is by no means certain death.
--
Des Herriott, Oracle Corporation UK Ltd.
dher...@uk.oracle.com
- speaking for myself, not my employer.
Afterburner
>Spoken like a true caster.
I've been soloing my 7th level Cleric (who doesn't get bind
affinity until 14th) and my 11th level Paladin (who doesn't get bind
affinity at all) in Paw. And Desdinova, Tuttle, and Debiana were
soloing there well before Des (a Mage) got bind. And Tuttle (a monk)
and Debiana (a ranger) don't get bind at all. Hell, for a good long
while Des played in Paw while retaining his original newbie binding
point in the Toxxulia forest. You think it's a long RUN from Qeynos
to Paw, try throwing in a 10-20 minute wait on the boat from Erudin to
Qeynos, then a 10 minute boat ride, before starting out on that 12
minute run to Paw.
It's 7 minutes from one side of West K. to the other. It's 12
minutes from the Qeynos gate to Paw. I can count on one hand the
number of times I ran into something aggro between the North K./South
K. zone line and Paw, and you can hug the river through West K. and
North K., avoiding anything aggro entirely.
As if that weren't enough (and you'd certainly think it would
be), I just took my little 11th-level gnome warrior all the way across
Antonica and back on Sunday, and I took the path through East, North,
and West K. instead of hugging the river. I did it all without SoW
and without JBoots, and the lions are still aggro to my gnome warrior.
And I made it just fine.
Your problems are only as big as you make them. I don't make
mine that big.
>BRAVO, 3 cheers for the twink who's never had to run across seriously
>unpleasant territory butt naked with no weapons to defend themselves
>with.
You mean like your monk, who doesn't carry weapons and
respawns ready and rarin' to go, and who can kick a lot of ass while
butt-naked? My little gnomish warrior is all atwitter with sympathy
for your plight.
AB
John
stephenmcleod
I'll grant a 19 minute run) is nothing to you doesn't
matter.
The fact is that the dungeon was empty (0) players the last
several times I arrived there during *prime* time.
The dungeon is broken. It is too low level for its distance
from a low level area. Either the dungeon needs to be
tougher or there needs to be a binding area closer.
My personal feeling is that with most players now above 20,
making the dungeon tougher would be a better idea. Just
move the monk quest items to those 2 rooms out front and put
them on L15 gnolls.
CWizard
> I'll grant a 19 minute run) is nothing to you doesn't
> matter.
>
> The fact is that the dungeon was empty (0) players the last
> several times I arrived there during *prime* time.
>
> The dungeon is broken. It is too low level for its distance
> from a low level area. Either the dungeon needs to be
> tougher or there needs to be a binding area closer.
You know you can bind in Arena right? it's just 2 zones and a few short
minutes of walking.
Bakara
Veeshan
stephenmcleod
back safely from the arena. Lions and wolves will kill you
along with other aggro menaces including things in the
water.
Arena is a great place to bind if you are 12-14th level or
higher tho.
Devast
the way it is. I loved going there from lvl 8 to 13 or so. Very few
people and good exp if you play it right.
As for the "seriously unpleasant territory" What exactly are you talking
about? WK is long sure but following the river is safe so no worrys
about dying, the jaunt across NK is very short and it's pretty easy to
get from SK zone to Paw. Maybe you think Qeynos Hills is nasty???
In article <slrn7sm5aj....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net>,
pir...@erols.com wrote:
> Spoken like a true caster.
>
> BRAVO, 3 cheers for the twink who's never had to run across seriously
> unpleasant territory butt naked with no weapons to defend themselves
with.
>
> Skate<darkp...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >Gotta disagree with ya.. I like paw just the way it is.. I dont want
it
> >closer to bind points.. if your not willing to make the run and take
the
> >risk.. dont go.
>
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JubJub McRae
>Spoken like a true caster.
>
>BRAVO, 3 cheers for the twink who's never had to run across seriously
>unpleasant territory butt naked with no weapons to defend themselves with.
>
>
>Skate<darkp...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Gotta disagree with ya.. I like paw just the way it is.. I dont want it
>>closer to bind points.. if your not willing to make the run and take the
>>risk.. dont go.
Sorry, but it's NOT a huge run for a non-caster to get bound in Arena.
Brett Hawn
first place. Christ.. I sat outside West Gate in Freeport the other day
offering up to 10pp for a bind and still waited 45 minutes for someone to
finally do it for that price.
Desmei Sightblinder
You have to use utmost caution when adventuring in these types of
places. The run from Arena to Splitpaw is a cake walk.. if you keep
your eyes peeled and know what you're doing, there is little to no
difficulty at all. And if you don't know where the Arena is... tough
luck. That information is available in so many places, it's not even
funny. Paw is a wonderful dungeon due to the fact that there is almost
never anyone there. It is probably one of the least visited dungeons in
the game.
I am a Bard (aka not a "true" caster). My tenure in Paw was rewarding
both in EXP and loot. I didn't die my whole time there (lvl 10 - 12).
If I can do it, then all of you can too - it's not that tough.
Desmei Sightblinder
Lvl 26 Bard (Povar)
In article <slrn7sm5aj....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net>,
pir...@erols.com wrote:
> Spoken like a true caster.
>
> BRAVO, 3 cheers for the twink who's never had to run across seriously
> unpleasant territory butt naked with no weapons to defend themselves
with.
>
> Skate<darkp...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >Gotta disagree with ya.. I like paw just the way it is.. I dont want
it
> >closer to bind points.. if your not willing to make the run and take
the
> >risk.. dont go.
>
Afterburner
>Try finding a caster who's willing to go to the Arena to bind you in the
>first place. Christ.. I sat outside West Gate in Freeport the other day
>offering up to 10pp for a bind and still waited 45 minutes for someone to
>finally do it for that price.
We casters can sense your bitter, anti-caster bias and we avoid you
like the plague. :)
AB
Barengrill
What server are you on? For that price, I'll run from my current location in
Qeynos to bind you in Freeport. In fact, at 10pp a bind, I may just decide
to follow you around for a while. :-)
Bartron
Priest of Life
Rodcet Nife server
Brett Hawn <pir...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn7sqs5l....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net...
Brian Cully
>What server are you on? For that price, I'll run from my current location in
>Qeynos to bind you in Freeport. In fact, at 10pp a bind, I may just decide
>to follow you around for a while. :-)
<Brett> Ataras Asutra, Corpse for Hire, Innoruuk </Brett>
Now, I've never had a problem getting a bind, typically, a
/shout Looking for a bind at the West Gate. "Donating" 5pp for the service.
gets me an answer within a minute. But, then again, Brett always seems
to have bad EQ karma.
I'll refrain from commenting on the way the word "donation" is used in
the game.
JubJub McRae
>Try finding a caster who's willing to go to the Arena to bind you in the
>first place. Christ.. I sat outside West Gate in Freeport the other day
>offering up to 10pp for a bind and still waited 45 minutes for someone to
>finally do it for that price.
On solusek ro, I've never, cept in the earliest days, had
difficulties in getting a bind. If no one is willing to bind you,
something's fishy.
Jim Williams
told him, "whatever you think you can afford".... "how much is that?" he
asked. I repeated myself. He stopped asking for a bind :(
Usually I charge whatever someone thinks they can afford, with the
explanation that those who can afford more pay for those who can't afford
much or any. A bit socialist, but it was my cleric.
Brian Cully wrote in message <7qkabv$f84$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net>...
Lewis W Beard
> It's 7 minutes from one side of West K. to the other. It's 12
> minutes from the Qeynos gate to Paw. I can count on one hand the
> number of times I ran into something aggro between the North K./South
> K. zone line and Paw, and you can hug the river through West K. and
> North K., avoiding anything aggro entirely.
When you say "and you can hug the river through West K. and North K.,
avoiding anything aggro entirely." do you mean for good characters
only? Most of the barbarians on the river wanted to kill my human SK
BIG TIME. But I was just messing around, I wasnt destined for Paw.
But I think I'm going to try it ... I'm hoping to get some faction
with the Karana residents.
Lewis
--
Lewis W Beard, #1369, Connoisseur Of The GDS, http://lwb.org, le...@lwb.org
'The chief problem about death, incidentally, is the fear that there may
be no afterlife -- a depressing thought, particularly for those who have
bothered to shave.' - Woody Allen
Afterburner
>When you say "and you can hug the river through West K. and North K.,
>avoiding anything aggro entirely." do you mean for good characters
>only?
Well, when I make the run, I don't make a hard right just
outside of the pass and head due south (toward the barbarian village).
I head southeast and bypass the barbarian village entirely. And yes,
if you do this, you'll miss everything aggro except for a few farmers.
And they're easy to avoid.
AB
Brett Hawn
gate/stone bridge in North K. They absolutely ADORE taking a few moments out
of their time to squash the random passer by.
Skate
times than I can count.. and I have Never twinked a character.. haven't
even got a character rich enough to do it yet..
And I agree.. the run is tedious, but even without sow.. I can make it with
no problems..
Devast <dev...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7qjoom$thv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hmmm I'm not a caster, I have never twinked and I think Paw is perfect
> the way it is. I loved going there from lvl 8 to 13 or so. Very few
> people and good exp if you play it right.
>
> As for the "seriously unpleasant territory" What exactly are you talking
> about? WK is long sure but following the river is safe so no worrys
> about dying, the jaunt across NK is very short and it's pretty easy to
> get from SK zone to Paw. Maybe you think Qeynos Hills is nasty???
>
Afterburner
>You forgot about all the idiots kiting HG's, Grif's, etc down by the wizzie
>gate/stone bridge in North K. They absolutely ADORE taking a few moments out
>of their time to squash the random passer by.
I didn't forget about it 'cause I've never seen it.
I have *never* seen a hill giant anywhere near the spire
gate/stone bridge.
Never.
Never *ever*, even.
And I've run down that river probably 200 times or more.
I've only seen griffs there twice, and once was when *I*
brought a griffawn and a griffenne to the bridge while running for my
life. I didn't make it.
Christ almighty on a pogo stick, Brett, you post this
bile-filled tripe about how Paw sucks unless you're a caster with
bind, and you *completely* ignore all the posts that tell you that
you're simply wrong. And rather than addressing the half-dozen people
(including two of your own co-workers) who've told you that, yes,
you're wrong about Paw, you keep trying to come up with other lame
defenses for your indefensible position.
I've been to Paw dozens of times with multiple characters who
either couldn't bind at the time or who will never get bind at all,
and IT'S JUST NOT THAT FUCKING DANGEROUS OR ANNOYING TO GET THERE. I
took my human cleric there at *5th* level. My Erudite paladin has
been hunting there off an on since 9th. It was *marginally* annoying
to get back to Paw when Desdinova was still bound in Erudin, but that
was my own fault because I voluntarily chose to remain bound to Erudin
(so I could gate back and get better prices). Once I sucked it up and
got bound at Qeynos, it just wasn't an issue. And nowadays my melee
and hybrid characters get bound in Highpass, which shaves about 5
minutes off the travel time to Paw vs. the travel time from Qeynos.
So get over your anti-caster bias and quit your whining. Or
I'll walk back to your cube and smack you.
Neener.
:)
AB
NBarnes
Heyas, Afterburner. What a pair of NGs I've seen you in.... ;)
I _like_ Paw. Paw is _uncrowded_. The last character I created
spent 4th to 10th lvl there and that did _not_ take a long time. Paw
is amazing.
The original poster is right; there's almost nobody there. It's
not for any intrinsic problem with Paw, it's just life. Frankly, I
have _never_ had a problem with the run to paw, even at 4th lvl. The
worst part is picking up lionesses and lions in SK, and that's not
hard to avoid if you keep an eye out. HGs and griffs in NK? I have
_never_ had a problem with that with _any_ of my numerous characters
(this on S. Ro, one of the most populous and developed servers).
The only thing keeping me from recommending Paw to _everybody_ is
that the worst thing that happens in Paw is somebody else comes back
to start killing giant snakes with me (ever camped snaked in BB, folks?
Paw has _more_ snakes, and nobody hunts them....).
I am curious on the Zixx issue, though. Which gnoll is it that
causes him to spawn? I always saw him (followed shortly by me either
zoning or dying) after killing many, many giant snakes quickly (I
ran into a 50th lvl shaman in there once and he hit me with _all_ the
buffs. At lvl 7 I had 450 hp, and Chloroplast, and an agility of 160.
I was a god. Until Zixx....), and I had a theory that that was what
caused him to spawn (since he's affiliated with the Ring of Scale).
I'm curious as to what he's connected to, since I've never heard much
about him.
NBarnes
Mr. Bob
> I was a god. Until Zixx....), and I had a theory that that was what
> caused him to spawn (since he's affiliated with the Ring of Scale).
> I'm curious as to what he's connected to, since I've never heard much
> about him.
>
> NBarnes
the snake alcove. After we cleaned them out he appeared at the edge of
the water outside the door.
Did it twice, though maybe it was just one of those gnolls we killed.
Bob
Adar
starts with a K :)
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
Mr. Bob <sir...@whereami.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.123a0aa9a2d31400989688@news-server...
NBarnes
> Mr. Bob <sir...@whereami.com> wrote...
> >Adar wrote:
> > > I was a god. Until Zixx....), and I had a theory that that was
> > > what caused him to spawn (since he's affiliated with the Ring of
> > > Scale). I'm curious as to what he's connected to, since I've
> > > never heard much about him.
> > We seemed to get him to spawn by killing every gnoll in the rooms
> > past the snake alcove. After we cleaned them out he appeared at the
> > edge of the water outside the door.
> >
> > Did it twice, though maybe it was just one of those gnolls we killed.
> It was one of the gnolls. He spawns after you kill..erm...the named
> one that starts with a K :)
I don't think that I'm familiar with a named gnoll that starts with a
K in Paw. Does he spawn in a particular place consistantly?
NBarnes
Adar
other gnoll in that room, too??) Nenix spawns in his place, then runs
through the entire dungeon looking for blood. Nenix himself is about 25-28
or so. I am *not* sure of which room that is (I haven't been there in a
long, long time...) nor would it be a good idea to go take a look :P
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:37D08F8E...@earthlink.net...
Mr. Bob
ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com says...
> Yep. He's a shaman, about level 16. After you kill him (and maybe every
> other gnoll in that room, too??) Nenix spawns in his place, then runs
> through the entire dungeon looking for blood. Nenix himself is about 25-28
> or so. I am *not* sure of which room that is (I haven't been there in a
> long, long time...) nor would it be a good idea to go take a look :P
>
There's a small 6' x 6' or so hole in the water near the edge in the
lower level pool in a very shallow area. Go through this to get to the
rooms.