A new necro pet exploit
Adar
and decides to take a good, long look at pets wielding weapons. (Hell, if
they nerf FD because of how one monk pulled Innoruuk, this little trick
definitely warrants a second glance...and as an extra bonus, in the
meantime, all the existing pet casters can go solo their way to 50 in 3
days.)
You know how certain pets can usually do 55 damage with an effective 8 delay
when given an FS/storebought dagger combo? Well, a new item now takes it
about one thousand steps further.
You see, the gnoll hide lariats are 20 delay- and proc stun. Needless to
say, in the hands of an NPC pet that's been speeded up to an 8 delay, even a
single lariat procs an...impressive amount per fight, while not affecting
damage. It's also almost unresistable on anything that cons very high blue
or lower to the pet, and as an extra bonus, it has a high taunt value.
Said gnoll lariats are now given away in Paw for free.
Enjoy.
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
---
From the Asheron's Call Player's Guidebook:
'Trading with other players is your best method of gaining the most valuable
and
unique items. However, just like in the real world, you must gain the trust
of
your trading partner. If that proves difficult, consider using a reliable
third party
as a trading broker.'
Trusting a trading broker: Zero dollars.
Getting ripped off: Zero dollars.
Venting about it: Zero dollars.
The expression on your face when you read the above quote: Priceless.
Some things you simply can't buy. For cancelling them, there's Mastercard.
Dan Harmon
Adar <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
I would have quoted the part where you said you reported this the correct
way (/feedback or /bug), but oddly enough, I didn't see you mention that.
Are you a monk by any chance?
Simond
Adar <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
<snip nasty, _nasty_ trick>
Ouch.
Want to wager that Verant fix the Lariat, instead of the pets?
--
Simond AKA
Morrighan. Barbarian Shaman, Vallon Zek
Cenni, Human Ranger, Vallon Zek
Cealena, Human Necromancer, Vallon Zek
Philbo
>You see, the gnoll hide lariats are 20 delay- and proc stun. Needless to
>say, in the hands of an NPC pet that's been speeded up to an 8 delay, even a
>single lariat procs an...impressive amount per fight, while not affecting
>damage. It's also almost unresistable on anything that cons very high blue
>or lower to the pet, and as an extra bonus, it has a high taunt value.
>
>Said gnoll lariats are now given away in Paw for free.
>
>Enjoy.
>
>Brudo (E'ci)
>Loredaeron (E'ci)
That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon. If you are jealous of it
so much, just start your own necro. I play a Ranger and have seen how poorly
necros are treated in the game. They deserve a decent pet, IMO. If you are
jealous how quick someone can get to level 50, then why don't you do it
yourself? I just don't understand why anyone would want to nerf anything in
this game. Verant allow Necros to solo, and they know the class sucks ass
when it comes to grouping. Without their pet being able to be as strong as
a melee class, the entire class is nulled, worthless, invalid, not playable.
Verant KNOWS this, and wont go near their pets anymore.
Pig
"Adar" <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
Adar
Dan Harmon <deha...@email.com> wrote in message
news:848m05$rat$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Adar <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> way (/feedback or /bug), but oddly enough, I didn't see you mention that.
>
If someone had _ever_ seen a /feedback or /bug responded to, I might have.
As it is, this NG is, sadly, much better to post these things to.
> Are you a monk by any chance?
>
Warrior. My attitude about this is well known, IMO. No, I'm not quite as
rabid as pete, but this one goes overboard.
Dorian Brytestar
room full of them not just because of one instance.
--
Dorian Brytestar
Lvl 43 High Elf Cleric of Tunare
Povar
<snip stuff>
Adar
Philbo <ec...@oobik.com> wrote in message
news:tVR94.15362$K7.5...@newscene.newscene.com...
> In article <848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>, "Adar"
<ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >You see, the gnoll hide lariats are 20 delay- and proc stun. Needless to
> >say, in the hands of an NPC pet that's been speeded up to an 8 delay,
even a
> >single lariat procs an...impressive amount per fight, while not affecting
> >damage. It's also almost unresistable on anything that cons very high
blue
> >or lower to the pet, and as an extra bonus, it has a high taunt value.
> >
> >Said gnoll lariats are now given away in Paw for free.
> >
> >Enjoy.
>
of it
> so much, just start your own necro.
I have, thanks. Oh, and the new server has almost as many of them as druids.
> I play a Ranger and have seen how poorly
> necros are treated in the game. They deserve a decent pet, IMO. If you are
> jealous how quick someone can get to level 50, then why don't you do it
> yourself? I just don't understand why anyone would want to nerf anything
in
> this game.
Because necros and their pets are crowding melee classes out of groups. That
simple.
> Verant allow Necros to solo, and they know the class sucks ass
> when it comes to grouping. Without their pet being able to be as strong as
> a melee class, the entire class is nulled, worthless, invalid, not
playable.
> Verant KNOWS this, and wont go near their pets anymore.
Yeah. So, the entire class is so worthless and has so few skills besides
their pets that it's the second most popular class in the game, and the
druids and necros outnumber six out of the seven meleers, combined? And now
their pets can CAST STUN, TOO?
Asmodeus
pet. I find that a tenticle whip is much more effective. heh heh
Adar wrote in message <848thf$niq$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>...
Philbo
>Funny how Verant won't nerf a Necro because they'd "suck" without their pet
>and offer nothing to a group. Shadowknights and Rogues suck and offer
>nothing to a group either yet they have been nerfed repeatedly. Oh yeah
>their melees, we aren't SUPPOSED to play melees. Sorry, I love my SK and I
>wanted to love my rogue. Couldn't resist.
If you took away the Necros pet, or nerfed it, you'd have a Shadow Knight that
couldn't weild any swords nor wear any plate armor. That's basically what
these people are asking Verant to do. Least Verant has said they wont modify
any class drastically any longer, so they can whine all they want. Being a
Melee class, I stiull respect Necros. They go through a lot of KOS shit, and
pretty much cant even do much within the game. For that they are rewarded with
great pets. People just dont know what the heck they're talking about.
Donny Trimm
Philbo <ec...@oobik.com> wrote in message
news:tVR94.15362$K7.5...@newscene.newscene.com...
> In article <848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>, "Adar"
<ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote:
>
<SNIP>
> That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon. If you are jealous
of it
> so much, just start your own necro. I play a Ranger and have seen how
poorly
> necros are treated in the game. They deserve a decent pet, IMO. If you are
> jealous how quick someone can get to level 50, then why don't you do it
> yourself? I just don't understand why anyone would want to nerf anything
in
> this game. Verant allow Necros to solo, and they know the class sucks ass
> when it comes to grouping. Without their pet being able to be as strong as
> a melee class, the entire class is nulled, worthless, invalid, not
playable.
> Verant KNOWS this, and wont go near their pets anymore.
>
Funny how Verant won't nerf a Necro because they'd "suck" without their pet
Ba'Klomp
Maybe I can start paying tanks to pull, just so I don't have to group with
them. Tanks take much more XP than pets, so it's really best that way.
tim
You're right. Tanks do make a good secondary pet though. In a smaller
group you can use the tank to pull and to sponge some before you
kick in the pet(s). Since the pet's taunt's are usualy as good or better,
the tank can back past the pet & get outta the fight before downtime's
impacted too much. Course yea, you do take a tradeoff in exp, & with
mixed there's that nasty exp penalty, but hey it can fill a need till
you can get someone else.
I've done the above a few times now, and was pretty happy with the
results. Worked fairly well for me exp wise, & I was grateful for
the oppertunity to get good exp.
Personally, I'd have no problem picking up some cash for pulling. I play
a ranger and I could at least keep myself healed so it'd be a pretty
straight up transaction. Plus you get that ranger tracking, which is
a bonus for keeping things coming, and they show up snared. That's gotta
be worth a little coin.
ME
Matt Frisch
ether:
>In article <848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>, "Adar" <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>You see, the gnoll hide lariats are 20 delay- and proc stun. Needless to
>>say, in the hands of an NPC pet that's been speeded up to an 8 delay, even a
>>single lariat procs an...impressive amount per fight, while not affecting
>>damage. It's also almost unresistable on anything that cons very high blue
>>or lower to the pet, and as an extra bonus, it has a high taunt value.
>>
>>Said gnoll lariats are now given away in Paw for free.
>>
>That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon.
It is an exploit.
> If you are jealous of it
>so much, just start your own necro. I play a Ranger and have seen how poorly
>necros are treated in the game. They deserve a decent pet, IMO. If you are
>jealous how quick someone can get to level 50, then why don't you do it
>yourself? I just don't understand why anyone would want to nerf anything in
>this game. Verant allow Necros to solo, and they know the class sucks ass
>when it comes to grouping. Without their pet being able to be as strong as
>a melee class, the entire class is nulled, worthless, invalid, not playable.
>Verant KNOWS this, and wont go near their pets anymore.
Your manifest stupidity barely makes responding worthwhile, but on the very
remote chance of cracking through the granite that is your skull and
introducing the light of intelligence to that feeble ball of grey matter
which the world laughingly refers to as "your brain", here we go:
EVERYONE IN THE GAME IS IN COMPETITION WITH EVERYONE ELSE.
If a character is very powerful solo, they are even WORSE when more than
one of them gangs up. At the rate that necromancer pets get outlandish
benefits from weapon specs and procs, it won't be long until a group of a
tiny handful of necromancers goes and chops down one of the dragons, or
kills Cazic-Thule or Innourouk. My deepest sympathies to your gene pool if
you do not comprehend why this is a bad thing.
Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
Matt Frisch
ether:
>In article <8cU94.2489$Ev3....@cmnws01.we.mediaone.net>, "Donny Trimm" <piousp_@_lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
>
>If you took away the Necros pet, or nerfed it, you'd have a Shadow Knight that
>couldn't weild any swords nor wear any plate armor. That's basically what
>these people are asking Verant to do.
Necromancers still retain a large list of extremely useful spells, leaving
their pets aside. The fact that their pet is superman just adds insult to
injury.
> Least Verant has said they wont modify
>any class drastically any longer, so they can whine all they want.
And you believe verant in this? Your stupidity is epic.
> Being a Melee class, I stiull respect Necros.
Can't imagine why, they sure as hell don't respect you.
> They go through a lot of KOS shit, and
>pretty much cant even do much within the game.
The same situation exists with every character class. All of my characters,
ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
game. Necromancers just have to avoid towns. Oh no, what a burden. What a
fair exchange for them to be able to out-perform any 2--5 (number depends
on the classes of the characters you choose) other characters combined in
combat.
Alx
that a few classes where designed to be better solo than
others, guess which. Since they were designed to be solo'able
I doubt they will be nerfed.
Also, from what I've been reading here, on the new server
the main classes are Druid then Necro. Why do Verant insist
on ramming 'grouping' down our throats when so many obviously
want to be able to solo effectively?
Alex
--
Remove the X if replying by email.
"Matt Frisch" <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:3868589c...@news.earthlink.net...
Lwalgee
>Hmmm, I read recently something from Brad or Gordon saying
>that a few classes where designed to be better solo than
>others, guess which. Since they were designed to be solo'able
>I doubt they will be nerfed.
>
Can I have what you are smoking? They will nerf away when they feel like it or
until competition that cuts into the player base comes along.
>Also, from what I've been reading here, on the new server
>the main classes are Druid then Necro. Why do Verant insist
>on ramming 'grouping' down our throats when so many obviously
>want to be able to solo effectively?
>
Forcing you to group means you won't do the most effective means of gaining
experience. Why is it the most effective? You don't have to put up with
tactically challenged players or other cretins who overpull, stay too long,
etc. Even with the various nerfs a party of 2 or 3 is a better exp machine
than a full party most places.
The other reason stems from the server overcrowding issue. If more people solo
then the ratio of mobs/parties becomes worse than it is, requiring Verant to
change "their world" to something that the players like _and_ add more servers.
Not going to happen, too many bad design flaws in the EQ code for them to
overcome. Let me be nice, too many shortcuts in coding...no that wasn't nice
either. All too true though.
Prh1966
no more caffiene for you...news:38685726...@news.earthlink.net...
> On 27 Dec 1999 16:40:33 -0600, ec...@oobik.com (Philbo) scribed into the
> ether:
>
Paul Reeves
and both times I was
responded to within a five minutes. Maybe if you do /petition with /bug it
gets their attention more
often, although I dont know how this works.
Adar wrote in message <848ta1$lco$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>...
Dan Harmon
> > I would have quoted the part where you said you reported this the
correct
> > way (/feedback or /bug), but oddly enough, I didn't see you mention
that.
> >
>
> If someone had _ever_ seen a /feedback or /bug responded to, I might have.
> As it is, this NG is, sadly, much better to post these things to.
Then you should try reporting it the right way. Verant doesn't read every
single post here. They do read every single /feedback.
Why would you think you'd get a response from Verant here, even if they READ
it? Brad & Gordon post so rarely, to so few posts, you're wasting your
time. If you want to rant or bitch, don't claim to be reporting an alleged
exploit when you didn't even bother reporting it the RIGHT way.
BTW, passing along exploiting tips is against the rules.
Festulant
>Then you should try reporting it the right way. Verant doesn't read every
>single post here. They do read every single /feedback.
Correction: Some anonymous minor toadie reads every single
feedback.
There's a chance (however slim) that Brad and/or Gordon
themselves will read a message posted to this forum.
The odds of the Powers That Be reading this message are slim,
but I'd be willing to take that chance.
>Why would you think you'd get a response from Verant here, even if they READ
>it?
Uh. Because they've responded to things here in the past?
Jeez, this isn't rocket science.
>If you want to rant or bitch, don't claim to be reporting an alleged
>exploit when you didn't even bother reporting it the RIGHT way.
Yeah, you sound like my girlfriend who gets all indignant if I
go into Sam's without showing 'em my membership card.
Her argument: "Well, you're just SUPPOSED to show them your
card. It's the rules!"
My argument: "If it was important to them, they'd ask to see
the card. Clearly, they don't have a problem with me going into their
store to noodle around because they know I can't *buy* anything
without that card."
FUCK the "Right way" to do it. The "Right way" has proven to
be completely, totally, and utterly ineffective. How many times do
you think the zone-in point to West Karana from Qeynos Hills has been
/feedback or /bug reported in the past 9 months? Lots. I know that
I've /bugged it and /feedbacked it at least a dozen times. Has it
been fixed? No.
>BTW, passing along exploiting tips is against the rules.
Christ. Now you sound like my kid brother when he was 12.
Dan Harmon
Festulant <ipe...@blah.int> wrote in message
news:janh6s0dj5ceuuegg...@4ax.com...
I won't quote your insulting post, the link is above.
You have no clue who reads the /feedback.
There's nothing wrong with whining on this ng...that's what it was created
for. There's also no reason to believe that reporting it here is in ANY
way an acceptable ALTERNATIVE to reporting it the proper way.
Fine, report it here, even though against the rules...it's not like you're
going to be banned for telling people how to cheat on this ng. However,
there's no need to be a jerk to those who have some respect for the rules.
But if you're going to break the rules and report an exploit on a public
board, the LEAST you could do is report it the right way AS WELL.
pete
> rabid as pete, but this one goes overboard.
RABID!..RABID!! RABID!!!.....Well, I just don't like the fact that my
level 50 monk JUST PLAIN SUCKS! Defination of sucks.....DOSEN'T ADD ANYTHING
TO A GROUP OTHER THAN ADVERGE MELEE!... CAN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE
...ZIPP....NOTHING.........PULL THIS! ...NO GROUP NEEDS A PULLER THAT IS
UNRELIEABLE and CAN'T SPELL!!!. The reason I haven't been complaining
lately is because i've been playing AC.......but I'll be back to complain
more, I promise....
Hippie Ramone
:>That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon.
: It is an exploit.
When Verant declares it to be an exploit, punishable by banning
then and only then is it an exploit.
K
Hippie Ramone
: BTW, passing along exploiting tips is against the rules.
Calling something an exploit does not make it such. Verant
has never, to my knowledge, ever claimed that arming a pet
was an exploit.
K
John Henders
>Then you should try reporting it the right way. Verant doesn't read every
>single post here. They do read every single /feedback.
ROFL. If you believe this, I have a nice bridge in N Karana you might be
interested in.
--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*
Trickle
>Nah.. we still need tanks for pulling. That's about it though.
>
>Maybe I can start paying tanks to pull, just so I don't have to group with
>them. Tanks take much more XP than pets, so it's really best that way.
I hope they nerf your ass till its red raw.
Dan Harmon
John Henders <jhen...@example.com> wrote in message
news:84b20k$fqq$1...@00-c0-df-64-11-c6.bconnected.net...
> In <nK4a4.988$9e3....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> "Dan Harmon"
<deha...@email.com> writes:
>
> >Then you should try reporting it the right way. Verant doesn't read
every
> >single post here. They do read every single /feedback.
>
> ROFL. If you believe this, I have a nice bridge in N Karana you might be
> interested in.
Oh cool, the wood one? I always liked that bridge :)
But seriously, is there a more appropriate way to report exploits than the
one Verant officially reads?
Dan Harmon
Hippie Ramone <kde...@jelerak.scrye.com> wrote in message
news:84av6u$jrf$1...@jelerak.scrye.com...
True on both counts. Of course, in the latter, Verant rarely mentions
exploits they haven't fixed yet. :)
Shrike
>
>
> Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
> you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
> all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
Roleplaying.
--
Hanrahan Thornhide, Druid in Fennin Ro, Griffin Snack.
Rhialto, Enchanter in Fennin Ro, Ruby-waster Extraordinaire.
"Remember, you reap what you SoW"
Shrike
>
> Hmmm, I read recently something from Brad or Gordon saying
> that a few classes where designed to be better solo than
> others, guess which. Since they were designed to be solo'able
> I doubt they will be nerfed.
>
> the main classes are Druid then Necro. Why do Verant insist
> on ramming 'grouping' down our throats when so many obviously
> want to be able to solo effectively?
Verant isn't ramming grouping down our throats since they provided very
effective solo classes.
Duh.
Philbo
>Your manifest stupidity barely makes responding worthwhile, but on the very
>remote chance of cracking through the granite that is your skull and
>introducing the light of intelligence to that feeble ball of grey matter
>which the world laughingly refers to as "your brain", here we go:
>
>EVERYONE IN THE GAME IS IN COMPETITION WITH EVERYONE ELSE.
>If a character is very powerful solo, they are even WORSE when more than
>one of them gangs up. At the rate that necromancer pets get outlandish
>benefits from weapon specs and procs, it won't be long until a group of a
>tiny handful of necromancers goes and chops down one of the dragons, or
>kills Cazic-Thule or Innourouk. My deepest sympathies to your gene pool if
>you do not comprehend why this is a bad thing.
>
>Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
>you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
>all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
One word for your post: Moronic.
I love how people over-exaggerate everything. Once again, it is clearly not an
exploit. If the weapon didn't proc, then something would be broken.
Philbo
>Necromancers still retain a large list of extremely useful spells, leaving
>their pets aside. The fact that their pet is superman just adds insult to
>injury.
Heh, you have never PLAYED or even GROUPED with a Necro without
a pet have you? You really have no clue as to what you're talking about.
All you seem to know how to do is pithy insults, which just shows how immature
you are and the rest of your 12 year old nerf squad. Come back to us when you
can honestly say that Necros with wuss pets are still a viable class.
>The same situation exists with every character class. All of my characters,
>ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
I'm starting to wonder if you have even played Everquest.
Adar
>
> Festulant <ipe...@blah.int> wrote in message
> news:janh6s0dj5ceuuegg...@4ax.com...
>
> I won't quote your insulting post, the link is above.
>
> You have no clue who reads the /feedback.
>
Sure I do- no one.
> There's nothing wrong with whining on this ng...that's what it was created
> for. There's also no reason to believe that reporting it here is in ANY
> way an acceptable ALTERNATIVE to reporting it the proper way.
>
There is no proper way. Did you see the message about someone opening up the
single mailbox where those /bugs and /feedbacks go, a few months into
retail, and seeing about five thousand of them unread? (which,
unfortunately, I can't find on Deja now. Doh.) If I saw any evidence that
that message was false, I'd report it the normal way as well- but until
then, why would I waste my time?
Besides, by the game rules, what I posted isn't an exploit. Magician swords
have procced anti-summon spells for a couple of months, which makes them
great for necros to use on shadowmen- but for some reason, no one paid
attention until someone found the right weapon.
By the game rules, mind you.
> Fine, report it here, even though against the rules...it's not like you're
> going to be banned for telling people how to cheat on this ng.
I'm not doing that, though, am I? Giving necro pets super-fast weapons with
no damage is apparently quite fair; I don't see where Verant said giving
them super-fast weapons with no damage and a proc is somehow worse. Hell,
that's a damn good tactic; congratulations to whoever thought of it first.
> However,
> there's no need to be a jerk to those who have some respect for the rules.
>
The _rules_ say it's perfectly fair. *I* call it an exploit, because pets
were never supposed to be able to do what they're doing in the first place;
NPC weapons had a normal damage/delay in beta, and this was changed solely
because of people giving high level NPC's rusty short swords. The change
impacted the pets, but it was never meant to.
But you see, last night, I joined a group where my L31 warrior briefly found
himself outdamaged by a SHAMAN pet that was blue to an L29 (and came from
the L34 summon.) Then I thought about what I saw the necro pet equipped with
those whips do, and decided I'd do the necros a favor by letting them level
superfast.
Show me the part where the rules say this is an exploit. Yes, I hope to get
that changed with this message; but in the meantime, every necro that sees
this will go gain a few levels, and no one else will be hurt. At worst,
Verant will have to reconsider what dual wielding pets are able to do. Oh
well :P
> But if you're going to break the rules and report an exploit on a public
> board, the LEAST you could do is report it the right way AS WELL.
>
It's not an exploit, and if I did report it the right way, who would read
it?
Screw it; this is easy enough to prove, so you 'win' on that score. I'll
/bug it tonight with all of my chars, and if I get *ONE* response, to any of
them, within a week, I'll post a public apology. (The caveat is that it does
actually have to resemble a reply to the /bug report, not just an email
regarding this thread; the latter would prove my point.)
For that matter, I invite anyone who's had one of those responded to to post
to this thread (as I'm 0 for 3 or 4, personally.) Anyone who got a personal
message back from a /bug report- anyone at all- post here. If I see...say,
three of them, from six months ago onwards, I'll post the same apology.
Somehow, though, I doubt that I'll have to.
Adar
Paul Reeves <pre...@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:s6hkt0p...@corp.supernews.com...
> I must be lucky, but i have twice done /bug and /petition at the same
time,
> and both times I was
> responded to within a five minutes. Maybe if you do /petition with /bug
it
> gets their attention more
> often, although I dont know how this works.
It's the /petition. Petitions show up in a queue, the size of which
obviously varies, and are answered by guides or GM's. There's even a way for
said guides to escalate the problem in-game (so the appropriate rank of
guide answers it.) If it's a simple problem like a 'stuck in wall' type
thing, the guides on E'ci will almost always take care of it in under an
hour; unpaid volunteers in tech support aren't the greatest idea in the
world, but compared with, say, UO GM's, these people are paragons of virtue
and light.
Bug reports go in the same place as feedbacks- one virtual wastebasket.
danstrad
>I'm posting this solely in the hopes that someone at Verant looks at this
>and decides to take a good, long look at pets wielding weapons. (Hell, if
>they nerf FD because of how one monk pulled Innoruuk, this little trick
>definitely warrants a second glance...and as an extra bonus, in the
>meantime, all the existing pet casters can go solo their way to 50 in 3
>days.)
>
>You know how certain pets can usually do 55 damage with an effective 8
delay
>when given an FS/storebought dagger combo? Well, a new item now takes it
>about one thousand steps further.
>
>You see, the gnoll hide lariats are 20 delay- and proc stun. Needless to
>say, in the hands of an NPC pet that's been speeded up to an 8 delay, even
a
>single lariat procs an...impressive amount per fight, while not affecting
>damage. It's also almost unresistable on anything that cons very high blue
>or lower to the pet, and as an extra bonus, it has a high taunt value.
>
>Said gnoll lariats are now given away in Paw for free.
>
>
>Brudo (E'ci)
>Loredaeron (E'ci)
>
So for the price of a rare (dont tell me its not rare, who the hell hunts
paw?), if worthless loot item, the necro pet gains an ability of the
magicians air pet. So what? This does not make warriors less useful nor am i
about to go solo naggy using this 'exploit'.
By the way how the hell do you level to 50 in 3 days just because your pet
can stun?
Festulant
>You have no clue who reads the /feedback.
Sure I do. It's a kid with Down's Syndrome named Jason.
Comes in once every two weeks.
zi...@nb.sympatico.ca
Frisch) wrote:
>>That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon.
>
>It is an exploit.
>
>
>Your manifest stupidity barely makes responding worthwhile, but on the very
>remote chance of cracking through the granite that is your skull and
>introducing the light of intelligence to that feeble ball of grey matter
>which the world laughingly refers to as "your brain", here we go:
>
>EVERYONE IN THE GAME IS IN COMPETITION WITH EVERYONE ELSE.
>If a character is very powerful solo, they are even WORSE when more than
>one of them gangs up. At the rate that necromancer pets get outlandish
>benefits from weapon specs and procs, it won't be long until a group of a
>tiny handful of necromancers goes and chops down one of the dragons, or
>kills Cazic-Thule or Innourouk. My deepest sympathies to your gene pool if
>you do not comprehend why this is a bad thing.
>
>Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
>you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
>all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
All I have for you is a couple of easy to answer questions the first
being; How exactly is handing a pet a weapon an exploit ?
Make that the last question too I'll throw in some filler stuff
though.
Are players able to hand thier pets weapons ? answer yes
Are some pets able to duel wield ? Yes
Are pets NPCs ? debatable but for arguments sake yes
Can npc's wielding a weapon use that weapons proc? yup
Can some NPC's dual wield? damn betcha
Can npcs run and cast and other wise contravene rules? yes
Do npcs use the better of a weapons speed vs thier own? yes
Do npcs use the better of a weapons dam vs thier own ? yes
Should you be able to hand an npc a weapon that makes it do less dam?
no lady vox with the dam/speed of a rusty dagger is much more
exploitable.
now then How exactly is handing a pet a weapon an exploit?
Ladies and gentlemen pets need to be something. They clearly aren't
PC's though an argument could be made that they should use the same
tables as pc's use and then decide what class etc they should be but
(and please read closely) THAT IS NOT HOW THINGS ARE.
Pets are part of the NPC table as such they wield like an npc would
wield. To change that you would also need to REMOVE ALL CHARM SPELLS
or have charmed npc's switch abilities to that of the nearest pc
race/class. You could revert it so that you can hand lady vox a rusty
dagger but as noted above that is much more exploitable.
.
Malvolin
> On 27 Dec 1999 23:10:03 -0600, ec...@oobik.com (Philbo) scribed into the
> ether:
>
> >In article <8cU94.2489$Ev3....@cmnws01.we.mediaone.net>, "Donny Trimm"
<piousp_@_lightspeed.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >If you took away the Necros pet, or nerfed it, you'd have a Shadow Knight
that
> >couldn't weild any swords nor wear any plate armor. That's basically what
> >these people are asking Verant to do.
>
> their pets aside. The fact that their pet is superman just adds insult to
> injury.
Hardly.
> > Least Verant has said they wont modify
> >any class drastically any longer, so they can whine all they want.
>
> And you believe verant in this? Your stupidity is epic.
As is your arrogance.
>
> > They go through a lot of KOS shit, and
> >pretty much cant even do much within the game.
>
> The same situation exists with every character class. All of my
characters,
> ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
> game. Necromancers just have to avoid towns. Oh no, what a burden.
You know what? You've used that justification before, and its absolute,
utter bullshit. Claiming that monsters attack you on sight makes you KOS in
90% of the game and saying that it gives your characters just as hard a time
as a Necro is a crock. Necros are KOS to the very same things as you are,
and MORE. I'm not talking about guards in cities and newbie zones, those are
painfully simple to avoid in most cases. I'm talking EVERY NPC in the game.
Not just the ones I'd be fighting anyway. No, we don't just have to avoid
towns, sorry. How fucking arrogant.
MTS
then it is part of the game, even steroids wasn't an exploit till it was
deemed so by governing authorities. If it were the case that any player in
EQ could scream "exploit" then there would be alot fewer of us playing for
we would all be banned, I know many people who used the zone points for
rapid transport across zones (i.e. WK, EK, now all removed) I would suspect
that this one might be looked into though, but then again if the game was
meant to have pets able to use the procs on weapons, then so be it. EQ is a
virtual world belonging to and govern by Verant, you chose to participate or
not in "their" world" Me having a class with a weapon wielding pet might
have to check this out :-P and no I am not a Necro, and Adar before singling
out a class make sure you can stand on 1 foot
Adar wrote in message <848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>...
>I'm posting this solely in the hopes that someone at Verant looks at this
>and decides to take a good, long look at pets wielding weapons. (Hell, if
>they nerf FD because of how one monk pulled Innoruuk, this little trick
>definitely warrants a second glance...and as an extra bonus, in the
>meantime, all the existing pet casters can go solo their way to 50 in 3
>days.)
>
>You know how certain pets can usually do 55 damage with an effective 8
delay
>when given an FS/storebought dagger combo? Well, a new item now takes it
>about one thousand steps further.
>
>You see, the gnoll hide lariats are 20 delay- and proc stun. Needless to
>say, in the hands of an NPC pet that's been speeded up to an 8 delay, even
a
>single lariat procs an...impressive amount per fight, while not affecting
>damage. It's also almost unresistable on anything that cons very high blue
>or lower to the pet, and as an extra bonus, it has a high taunt value.
>
>Said gnoll lariats are now given away in Paw for free.
>
>Enjoy.
>
>Brudo (E'ci)
>Loredaeron (E'ci)
>
>---
>From the Asheron's Call Player's Guidebook:
>'Trading with other players is your best method of gaining the most
valuable
>and
>unique items. However, just like in the real world, you must gain the trust
>of
>your trading partner. If that proves difficult, consider using a reliable
>third party
>as a trading broker.'
>
>Trusting a trading broker: Zero dollars.
>Getting ripped off: Zero dollars.
>Venting about it: Zero dollars.
>The expression on your face when you read the above quote: Priceless.
>
>Some things you simply can't buy. For cancelling them, there's Mastercard.
>
>
Dan Harmon
MTS <m...@mtsjax.com> wrote in message news:386a6...@news.vic.com...
> An exploit has to be identified as such by a representative of Verant,
until
> then it is part of the game, even steroids wasn't an exploit till it was
> deemed so by governing authorities. If it were the case that any player in
> EQ could scream "exploit" then there would be alot fewer of us playing for
> we would all be banned, I know many people who used the zone points for
> rapid transport across zones (i.e. WK, EK, now all removed) I would
suspect
> that this one might be looked into though, but then again if the game was
> meant to have pets able to use the procs on weapons, then so be it. EQ is
a
> virtual world belonging to and govern by Verant, you chose to participate
or
> not in "their" world" Me having a class with a weapon wielding pet might
> have to check this out :-P and no I am not a Necro, and Adar before
singling
> out a class make sure you can stand on 1 foot
The WK transport was an Exploit, whether or not Verant chose to punish
someone for using it. That's sooo obvious. In most cases an Exploit is
something you KNOW has GOT to be a bug, and then you take advantage of it.
Well duh, that fits the bill, doesn't it?
Not sure where you get the idea that a representative has to say it's an
Exploit for it to be one.
MTS
Dan Harmon wrote in message <84dtdu$cec$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Duh, lets see if you are using an exploit and its so deemed as an exploit by
the representative of Verant they will so tell you it is an exploit, thus
warning you, and continuance of such will result in suspension/banning, the
zone bug was programmed as such that ppl zoning into inappropriate places
that would result in coming out in a wall or below land, as such was stated
resulted in the teleport to such spot. The spot WAS programmed as such.
can't say they didn't know where those spots teleported you to. Whether or
not it was done so to help speed the evolution of the world we will never
know. Think how many would have never made it through those zones alive, I
died 2x before I found out about them trying to get to FP and that was in 2
full groups, only 1person survived the trip, 3 on the second and all levels
in low teens.
Morgan
>
> In article <3868589c...@news.earthlink.net>, matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt Frisch) wrote:
>
> >their pets aside. The fact that their pet is superman just adds insult to
> >injury.
>
> a pet have you? You really have no clue as to what you're talking about.
> All you seem to know how to do is pithy insults, which just shows how immature
> you are and the rest of your 12 year old nerf squad. Come back to us when you
> can honestly say that Necros with wuss pets are still a viable class.
>
> >ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
>
I have played with a Necro who was five levels below the rest of the group.
With or without the pet, monsters went down much faster when he was there
to throw DoTs on them, not to mention the rest of his spells.
--
Morgan
Adar
bizbee <tub...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:386c7f0e...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> Yn erthygl <848ta1$lco$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>, sgrifenws "Adar"
> <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com>:
>
>
>
> >As it is, this NG is, sadly, much better to post these things to.
>
If I post it here, eventually, someone at Verant is going to read it (if
only because it's Gordon's job now.)
If I /bug it, it will go down a bottomless pit and never be seen again.
(Nevertheless, I did /bug it yesterday. And like I said, if I see a response
to it, as opposed to this thread, within a week or so, I'll issue a public
apology.)
Adar
MTS <m...@mtsjax.com> wrote in message news:386a7...@news.vic.com...
>
> Dan Harmon wrote in message <84dtdu$cec$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> >
> >MTS <m...@mtsjax.com> wrote in message news:386a6...@news.vic.com...
> >The WK transport was an Exploit, whether or not Verant chose to punish
> >someone for using it. That's sooo obvious. In most cases an Exploit is
> >something you KNOW has GOT to be a bug, and then you take advantage of
it.
> >Well duh, that fits the bill, doesn't it?
(snip retarded crap)
Are you actually saying the WK transport was not an exploit?
Bah, whatever. I was going to respond to the other stuff, but after reading
that, it's not worth the time.
Adar
>
> >In <nK4a4.988$9e3....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> "Dan Harmon"
<deha...@email.com> writes:
> >
> >>Then you should try reporting it the right way. Verant doesn't read
every
> >>single post here. They do read every single /feedback.
> >
> >ROFL. If you believe this, I have a nice bridge in N Karana you might be
> >interested in.
>
> be that fully 90% of those reports are brainless self-serving rants,
> and some of them are just plain KF'd because of the source, that the
> response rate isn't terribly high.
OK, then.
I know Brad doesn't have me in his killfile, because he's responded by email
to a couple of the posts I made before. For that matter, he doesn't have
Prostuck in his killfile either, so his tolerance has to be pretty high. So,
if I post something, at the very least Gordon (who can't have a killfile,
since it's his job) or Brad will read it at some point, whether they agree
with it or not.
On the other hand, how many times was Alchemy /bugged over the last six
months?
I trust the '5000 unread messages' post, because all known evidence points
that way, as well as a couple of other things I'm not at liberty to discuss.
But why the hell would I trust /bugging the issue to achieve something? I
mean, 5000 shamans did, and what did it get them save 'Alchemy isn't
broken'?
(And like I said, I did it anyway. One day and counting with no response, so
far.)
John Henders
>But seriously, is there a more appropriate way to report exploits than the
>one Verant officially reads?
I think you mean claims to read in the sentance above. Most evidence
supports the fact that they completely ignore it. Most people seem to
have found the only way to actually get their attention is to post
publiclly about it, and people tend to go with what works.
Joe C.
news:848l4e$65r$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
> I'm posting this solely in the hopes that someone at Verant looks at this
> and decides to take a good, long look at pets wielding weapons. (Hell, if
> they nerf FD because of how one monk pulled Innoruuk, this little trick
> definitely warrants a second glance...
Give me a f***ing break.
I don't know many necros that are going to _waste_ the time to drop what
they are doing just to hoof it to Paw to get one of these items which will
end up going bye-bye when you have to zone or your pet dies. The time you
would waste running around getting these things would negate any possible
benefit gained by having the pet wield it. I personally haven't been to Paw
yet, but by all accounts these things don't drop like candy.
Your necro hate propaganda is really getting tiresome, and I have to wonder
if you expect anyone in this group to take your posts or opinions seriously.
> and as an extra bonus, in the
> meantime, all the existing pet casters can go solo their way to 50 in 3
> days.)
Wee. I can just hear the thunderous roar of all the necros on all the
servers running to Paw.
Solo to 50 in 3 days. LOL.
-Aildrik T'Quetzl
level 45 Necromancer, Tarew Marr
Joe C.
news:3868589c...@news.earthlink.net...
> On 27 Dec 1999 23:10:03 -0600, ec...@oobik.com (Philbo) scribed into the
> ether:
>
> >In article <8cU94.2489$Ev3....@cmnws01.we.mediaone.net>, "Donny Trimm"
<piousp_@_lightspeed.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >If you took away the Necros pet, or nerfed it, you'd have a Shadow Knight
that
> >couldn't weild any swords nor wear any plate armor. That's basically what
> >these people are asking Verant to do.
>
> their pets aside. The fact that their pet is superman just adds insult to
> injury.
Our pet is no more powerful than a magician's pet. I'm really trying to
understand the reason despite this, people point their fingers at necros.
All I can come up with is tons of people who have never played a necro and
have no f*cking idea what they are talking about.
> > Least Verant has said they wont modify
> >any class drastically any longer, so they can whine all they want.
>
> And you believe verant in this? Your stupidity is epic.
>
> > Being a Melee class, I stiull respect Necros.
>
> Can't imagine why, they sure as hell don't respect you.
I must have missed the part where we made you the necro spokesperson.
> > They go through a lot of KOS shit, and
> >pretty much cant even do much within the game.
>
> The same situation exists with every character class. All of my
characters,
> ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
> game. Necromancers just have to avoid towns. Oh no, what a burden.
Please explain to me how your wood elf and barbarian suffer the same KOS
problems as my dark elf necro. I can name off at least 5 zones (OOT is a
great example) where KOS means I get to junk all my gold, silver, copper
pieces and any fine steel weapons I find. Before you say "high levels have
tons of plat..they don't care about money". This is because they can sell
off all the crap dropped in dungeons to various nearby merchants. I'm level
45 and for the first time ever have over 2000 plat in the bank, which is
already earmarked for a tinker bag. If I wasn't KoS to 90% of the merchants
in Norath, I might actually have enough plat to buy that tinker's bag.
> What a fair exchange for them to be able to out-perform any 2--5 (number
depends
> on the classes of the characters you choose) other characters combined in
> combat.
*shock* Another bullshit statement in the never-ending smear campaign
against necros.
Joe C.
group.
> With or without the pet, monsters went down much faster when he was there
> to throw DoTs on them, not to mention the rest of his spells.
>
What a profound statement! So what your telling us is that the more damage
done to a mob, the quicker it dies??
Brett Hawn
> Our pet is no more powerful than a magician's pet. I'm really trying to
>understand the reason despite this, people point their fingers at necros.
>All I can come up with is tons of people who have never played a necro and
>have no f*cking idea what they are talking about.
Easy.. watch a necro pet up, feign, sick pet on mob, pet dies, necro stands
up, pets up, feigns, sicks pet on mob.. rinse and repeat till mob is dead.
Wonder how many necros would cry if their pets poofed when they feigned like
they should.
Joe C.
>snip<
> >That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon.
>
> It is an exploit.
Pets can wield weapons. A gnoll lariat is a weapon. Where did the exploit
part creep into this rather simple equation?
> Your manifest stupidity barely makes responding worthwhile, but on the
very
> remote chance of cracking through the granite that is your skull and
> introducing the light of intelligence to that feeble ball of grey matter
> which the world laughingly refers to as "your brain", here we go:
>
> EVERYONE IN THE GAME IS IN COMPETITION WITH EVERYONE ELSE.
> If a character is very powerful solo, they are even WORSE when more than
> one of them gangs up
Not really. When necros group up, their DoT's do not stack. Its much more
effective to group with a druid or shaman. Perhaps it is you who needs to
put a crack in your granite skull.
> At the rate that necromancer pets get outlandish
> benefits from weapon specs and procs, it won't be long until a group of a
> tiny handful of necromancers goes and chops down one of the dragons, or
> kills Cazic-Thule or Innourouk. My deepest sympathies to your gene pool if
> you do not comprehend why this is a bad thing.
What an exciting server you play on, where necromancers with pets that can
stun are able to slay dragons and gods!
> Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
> you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
> all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
If you don't understand why a warrior is desirable over a mindless pet, I'm
not going to waste the time explaining it to an obvious newbie.
Joe C.
news:slrn86mcqi....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net...
> Joe C.<gu...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Our pet is no more powerful than a magician's pet. I'm really trying to
> >understand the reason despite this, people point their fingers at necros.
> >All I can come up with is tons of people who have never played a necro
and
> >have no f*cking idea what they are talking about.
>
> Easy.. watch a necro pet up, feign, sick pet on mob, pet dies, necro
stands
> up, pets up, feigns, sicks pet on mob.. rinse and repeat till mob is dead.
Wow....I had to make sure to write down this most effective way of hunting
mobs. Not only am I spending bone chips and a mere bubble of mana per pet
(not including pet buffing), I can also count on most L35+ mobs and their
pals dashing over to beat the daylights out of me the moment I stand up.
> Wonder how many necros would cry if their pets poofed when they feigned
like
> they should.
Not sure. In 45 levels, I've never used or seen any necros use this
tactic. While it might have been possible in the past, it certainly won't
work since the changes made to feign death.
danstrad
Brett Hawn wrote in message ...
>Joe C.<gu...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Our pet is no more powerful than a magician's pet. I'm really trying to
>>understand the reason despite this, people point their fingers at necros.
>>All I can come up with is tons of people who have never played a necro and
>>have no f*cking idea what they are talking about.
>
>Easy.. watch a necro pet up, feign, sick pet on mob, pet dies, necro stands
>up, pets up, feigns, sicks pet on mob.. rinse and repeat till mob is dead.
Your pet will not respond to your commands while you are feigned. If you
told your pet to atack the mob before you feigned then you are in the hate
list.. and if its a 35+ mob theres a good chance he'll be back to kick the
crap out of you.
Don't you play a monk? You need to have this explained to you?
Brett Hawn
>Brett Hawn <pir...@erols.com> wrote in message
>news:slrn86mcqi....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net...
>> > Our pet is no more powerful than a magician's pet. I'm really trying to
>> >understand the reason despite this, people point their fingers at necros.
>> >All I can come up with is tons of people who have never played a necro
>and
>> >have no f*cking idea what they are talking about.
>>
>> Easy.. watch a necro pet up, feign, sick pet on mob, pet dies, necro
>stands
>> up, pets up, feigns, sicks pet on mob.. rinse and repeat till mob is dead.
>
>mobs. Not only am I spending bone chips and a mere bubble of mana per pet
>(not including pet buffing), I can also count on most L35+ mobs and their
>pals dashing over to beat the daylights out of me the moment I stand up.
>
>like
>> they should.
>
>tactic. While it might have been possible in the past, it certainly won't
>work since the changes made to feign death.
I watched one do it just the other day in the Ghoul Lord room, took him a
while, but he got all 3 frogs.
Joe C.
> while, but he got all 3 frogs.
Oh yeah thats right. Now that I think about it, I think I saw someone do
it on Nagafen the other day. Took him a while....
Morgan
>
> > I have played with a Necro who was five levels below the rest of the
> group.
> > With or without the pet, monsters went down much faster when he was there
> > to throw DoTs on them, not to mention the rest of his spells.
> >
>
> What a profound statement! So what your telling us is that the more damage
> done to a mob, the quicker it dies??
*sigh* Read it again. The key word there is "much".
I am saying that a Necromancer five levels below the rest of the
group (four other people) was able to do enough damage with his DoTs
to noticeably affect the rate at which monsters died.
For the particularly slow, this means that a Necromancer is a viable
character and an asset to a group, even without a pet.
--
Morgan
Joe C.
>
> I am saying that a Necromancer five levels below the rest of the
> group (four other people) was able to do enough damage with his DoTs
> to noticeably affect the rate at which monsters died.
You haven't given me much info to go on (level of the players involved),
but as a necro, there is one thing I can say without a doubt about group
combat; DoTs hardly ever do full damage. The reason for this is pretty
simple. Most mobs don't live very long in a fight, unless you are fighting
something with tons of HP like a giant, the ghoul lord, etc. Our fastest
acting DoTs deal their max damage in 30 seconds (venom of the snake for
example does approx 540 damage in 30 seconds (level 34 spell)). The problem
here is that if you calculate all the damage done to a mob, the necro will
usually have contributed the least damage (compared to other casters) in a
fight lasting 30 seconds or under.
> For the particularly slow, this means that a Necromancer is a viable
> character and an asset to a group, even without a pet.
Yes....necros can contribute to a group, even without a pet. However, to
re-iterate, necros cannot contribute much damage in a fast fight. Our pet
goes a long way in making up for our lack of DD, and since Brad and GZ have
stated that a pet takes only a small portion of XP in a group situation, its
best to have that pet especially when you are in one place to stay for a
while.
-Aildrik
zi...@nb.sympatico.ca
>Joe C.<gu...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Easy.. watch a necro pet up, feign, sick pet on mob, pet dies, necro stands
>up, pets up, feigns, sicks pet on mob.. rinse and repeat till mob is dead.
>
>
>Wonder how many necros would cry if their pets poofed when they feigned like
>they should.
How about if they saw through invis like they are supposed to and not
poof... hell at the level of my pet it should see through invis vs
undead too. Besides NPC pets don't 32k when thier master dies.
Brett Hawn
>> I watched one do it just the other day in the Ghoul Lord room, took him a
>> while, but he got all 3 frogs.
>
> Oh yeah thats right. Now that I think about it, I think I saw someone do
>it on Nagafen the other day. Took him a while....
I appreciate sarcasm as much as anyone, however, assanine sarcasm is just
tedious. 17 Minutes to do the entire Ghoul Lord room is not what I'd call a
LONG time, just longer than it would have taken with a full group, but then
again, he didn't have to share, had the spawn broken, etc.
Dan Harmon
> But why the hell would I trust /bugging the issue to achieve something? I
> mean, 5000 shamans did, and what did it get them save 'Alchemy isn't
> broken'?
>
> (And like I said, I did it anyway. One day and counting with no response,
so
> far.)
Why would they respond to a bug or feedback? Besides a possible "thanks"
message, what are you expecting?
Send /feedback and request a /answermebitch option.
Dan Harmon
John Henders <jhen...@example.com> wrote in message
news:84e8mj$8d0$1...@00-c0-df-64-11-c6.bconnected.net...
> In <HX8a4.1282$9e3....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> "Dan Harmon"
<deha...@email.com> writes:
>
>
> >But seriously, is there a more appropriate way to report exploits than
the
> >one Verant officially reads?
>
>
> I think you mean claims to read in the sentance above.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I meant what I said.
Dan Harmon
Adar <ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:84e2nj$93s$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net...
> If I post it here, eventually, someone at Verant is going to read it (if
> only because it's Gordon's job now.)
I don't recall ever seeing a job duties page for Wrinn. Certainly I saw
nowhere where it says that one of his primary duties is to read every post
on every semi-official message board.
>
> If I /bug it, it will go down a bottomless pit and never be seen again.
The alchemy bug is the only big bug that I can remember McQuaid ever
addressing. As you WELL know, neither he nor Wrinn gives us much useful
information.
> (Nevertheless, I did /bug it yesterday. And like I said, if I see a
response
> to it, as opposed to this thread, within a week or so, I'll issue a public
> apology.)
I doubt if anyone ever sees a response from /feedback or /bug. I doubt if
you'll see any sort of response from either of them here. So what will that
prove?
I'm glad to hear you finally /bugged it though. :)
Morgan
>
> > *sigh* Read it again. The key word there is "much".
> >
> > I am saying that a Necromancer five levels below the rest of the
> > group (four other people) was able to do enough damage with his DoTs
> > to noticeably affect the rate at which monsters died.
>
> You haven't given me much info to go on (level of the players involved),
> but as a necro, there is one thing I can say without a doubt about group
> combat; DoTs hardly ever do full damage. The reason for this is pretty
> simple. Most mobs don't live very long in a fight, unless you are fighting
> something with tons of HP like a giant, the ghoul lord, etc. Our fastest
> acting DoTs deal their max damage in 30 seconds (venom of the snake for
> example does approx 540 damage in 30 seconds (level 34 spell)). The problem
> here is that if you calculate all the damage done to a mob, the necro will
> usually have contributed the least damage (compared to other casters) in a
> fight lasting 30 seconds or under.
To be honest, the Necromancer was at a particular sweet spot for the class.
He was level 29. The rest of the group was 33 Paladin, 34 Warrior, 35 Cleric,
34 Enchanter. He was a tremendous asset to the group. The only problem was
that he was getting too little experience because of the level difference.
Most fights with foes worth mentioning last a minute or two. I don't even
bother casting in fights that last less than 30 seconds. So if that is
your metric, then Enchanters don't have much to offer either. ;)
> > For the particularly slow, this means that a Necromancer is a viable
> > character and an asset to a group, even without a pet.
>
> Yes....necros can contribute to a group, even without a pet. However, to
> re-iterate, necros cannot contribute much damage in a fast fight. Our pet
> goes a long way in making up for our lack of DD, and since Brad and GZ have
> stated that a pet takes only a small portion of XP in a group situation, its
> best to have that pet especially when you are in one place to stay for a
> while.
After we had been run out of the zone a few times, he stopped making pets.
It just wasn't worth the bone chips and mana to keep making them, since we
had two real tanks in the group. All the pet was doing was waking up my
sleepers, anyhow. *grumble grumble*
--
Morgan
Xymarra, High Elf Enchanter on E'Ci
Joe C.
> tedious. 17 Minutes to do the entire Ghoul Lord room is not what I'd call
a
> LONG time, just longer than it would have taken with a full group, but
then
> again, he didn't have to share, had the spawn broken, etc.
I've spoken to many level 50 necros, and while it might be possible for a
necro to solo the lord room, it is certainly not done by using pets, and
certainly not in the manner you describe. 3 mobs would rip the pet to
shreds, and I shouldn't have to explain such an obvious fact to anyone who
has played the game to high levels.
In case you can't take a guess, think "charm". Oh....and enchanters are
able to perform the same feat as well.
One last thing, I'm not going to let you get away from the original point
of this thread, which is calling necros wielding a gnoll lariat an exploit.
Its not an exploit, and its not letting anyone do anything they were not
able to do already.
-Aildrik
Morgan
>
> Morgan wrote in message <386A86C7...@misleading.com>...
> :Philbo wrote:
> :>
> :> In article <3868589c...@news.earthlink.net>,
> matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt Frisch) wrote:
> :> >Necromancers still retain a large list of extremely useful spells, leaving
> :> >their pets aside. The fact that their pet is superman just adds insult to
> :> >injury.
> :> Heh, you have never PLAYED or even GROUPED with a Necro without
> :> a pet have you? You really have no clue as to what you're talking about.
> :> All you seem to know how to do is pithy insults, which just shows how
> immature
> :> you are and the rest of your 12 year old nerf squad. Come back to us when you
> :> can honestly say that Necros with wuss pets are still a viable class.
> :> >The same situation exists with every character class. All of my characters,
> :> >ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
> :> I'm starting to wonder if you have even played Everquest.
> :
> :I have played with a Necro who was five levels below the rest of the group.
> :With or without the pet, monsters went down much faster when he was there
>
> Er... isn't that like saying you can group with any class 5 levels below the
> rest of the group and the mobs will go down faster?!?
> All the rants about the necros are nothing more the class envy!
> Heard it all before with Wiz , Druid and Rangers.. People, if your not happy
> with your class, * Change it * I have, 6 times.. But I guarantee you will still
> find
> sommit to moan about..
Oh good grief. All I am saying is that a Necromancer is useful to have in
a group even if they don't summon a pet.
--
Morgan
(redirecting all posts to rec.games.computer.everquest)
Shai...@deathtinker.com
>Joe C.<gu...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Brett Hawn <pir...@erols.com> wrote in message
>>news:slrn86mcqi....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net...
>>> Joe C.<gu...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> > Our pet is no more powerful than a magician's pet. I'm really trying
to
>>> >understand the reason despite this, people point their fingers at
necros.
>>> >All I can come up with is tons of people who have never played a necro
>>and
>>> >have no f*cking idea what they are talking about.
>>>
>>stands
>>> up, pets up, feigns, sicks pet on mob.. rinse and repeat till mob is
dead.
>>
>>mobs. Not only am I spending bone chips and a mere bubble of mana per pet
>>(not including pet buffing), I can also count on most L35+ mobs and their
>>pals dashing over to beat the daylights out of me the moment I stand up.
>>
>>like
>>> they should.
>>
>>tactic. While it might have been possible in the past, it certainly won't
>>work since the changes made to feign death.
>
>while, but he got all 3 frogs.
You know if you saw a Necro feign death pulling in Ghoul Lord room he wasn't
using a pet. It is possible for a Necro to pull the Lord room and get the
Ghoul Lord alone, but of the 2 times I have tried it, I succeeded once and
died horribly once. You use beguile undead, diamondskin and feign death.
However this is very dangerous and best attempted with a party to back you up
if you fail.
In addition you cannot use a pet when you charm undead mobs. If he was using
a pet to try and pull the Ghoul Lord room then he didn't think out his
strategy too well since even our "superman" 49th pets get rocked quickly if
the Lord room is full. )
Shaithis Deathwalker
Arch-Necromancer of Tunare
----- Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web -----
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Darious
>All I have for you is a couple of easy to answer questions the first
>being; How exactly is handing a pet a weapon an exploit ?
>Make that the last question too I'll throw in some filler stuff
>though.
>Are players able to hand thier pets weapons ? answer yes
>Are some pets able to duel wield ? Yes
>Are pets NPCs ? debatable but for arguments sake yes
>Can npc's wielding a weapon use that weapons proc? yup
>Can some NPC's dual wield? damn betcha
>Can npcs run and cast and other wise contravene rules? yes
>Do npcs use the better of a weapons speed vs thier own? yes
>Do npcs use the better of a weapons dam vs thier own ? yes
>Should you be able to hand an npc a weapon that makes it do less dam?
>no lady vox with the dam/speed of a rusty dagger is much more
>exploitable.
>now then How exactly is handing a pet a weapon an exploit?
>
>Ladies and gentlemen pets need to be something. They clearly aren't
>PC's though an argument could be made that they should use the same
>tables as pc's use and then decide what class etc they should be but
>(and please read closely) THAT IS NOT HOW THINGS ARE.
>Pets are part of the NPC table as such they wield like an npc would
>wield. To change that you would also need to REMOVE ALL CHARM SPELLS
>or have charmed npc's switch abilities to that of the nearest pc
>race/class. You could revert it so that you can hand lady vox a rusty
>dagger but as noted above that is much more exploitable.
>
>.
Actually this seems to be fixed simply by making the MOB AI smart
enough to know wether it should weild a weapon or not.
Easy fix: Is weapon damage/speed ratio better? Then weild.
A more in depth fix would be to factor in magical effects and procs.
Ewen
:--
:Morgan
John Henders
But, of course, you've provided no evidence to support your statement,
while there is a large body of evidence to support the claim that they
don't in fact read /feedback or /bug at all. Why should anyone beleive
you?
Robert Coleman
> while there is a large body of evidence to support the claim that they
> don't in fact read /feedback or /bug at all. Why should anyone beleive
> you?
There is no evidence whatsoever to support either claim. Just because
they don't do anything about the bugs doesn't mean they don't read them.
Plus many people send in class problems as bugs when they really aren't.
Those tend to be ignored, or so I'd wager.
Robert Coleman
----------------------------------------
Gaeodar
16th Level Human Wizard
Veeshan Server
Taffwin
7th Level Halfing Druid
Tribunal Server
Sinvin
17th Level Dark Elf Cleric
E'Ci Server
Malvolin
>
> Er... isn't that like saying you can group with any class 5 levels below
the
> rest of the group and the mobs will go down faster?!?
> All the rants about the necros are nothing more the class envy!
> Heard it all before with Wiz , Druid and Rangers.. People, if your not
happy
> with your class, * Change it * I have, 6 times.. But I guarantee you will
still
> find
> sommit to moan about..
Yeah, next they'll find something horribly imbalancing about
Shadowknights....
Malvolin
Joe C. <jmca...@xyz.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:s6oim05...@news.supernews.com...
> One last thing, I'm not going to let you get away from the original point
> of this thread, which is calling necros wielding a gnoll lariat an
exploit.
> Its not an exploit, and its not letting anyone do anything they were not
> able to do already.
You have to understand the Nerf Squad's definition of "Exploit", which,
essentially, goes like this:
"Anything that another class is capable of doing that pisses me off or makes
me feel that the class I play is less effective because of it is an exploit,
and has to be changed immediately before it throws the entire game down the
crapper."
Whether or not the practice in question meets Verant's definition of an
exploit(and frankly, none of them do) is immaterial to them.
Grigori di Corci
zi...@nb.sympatico.ca wrote in message
<386c5d20...@allnews.nbnet.nb.ca>...
>On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 06:27:15 GMT, matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt
>Frisch) wrote:
>
>Ladies and gentlemen pets need to be something. They clearly aren't
>PC's though an argument could be made that they should use the same
>tables as pc's use and then decide what class etc they should be but
>(and please read closely) THAT IS NOT HOW THINGS ARE.
>Pets are part of the NPC table as such they wield like an npc would
>wield. To change that you would also need to REMOVE ALL CHARM SPELLS
>or have charmed npc's switch abilities to that of the nearest pc
>race/class. You could revert it so that you can hand lady vox a rusty
>dagger but as noted above that is much more exploitable.
You know what's amazing? In tests of 49th level magician pets versus 49th
level necromancer pets, with both pets fully buffed by their respective
masters and the necromancer pets daggered, the magician pets kill the
necromancer pets while the magician pet still has half or more HPs left, in
seven out of eight tests.
Yet all you hear about is how BS necromancer pets are because they can wield
daggers, with a large portion of the whine coming from magicians of all
people. It just goes to show you that 99.9% of the people who whine here
are clueless newbies who can't even whine their way out of a paper bag with
a match.
--Grigori di Corci
Adar
Grigori di Corci <gri...@wt.net> wrote in message
news:386d1...@data.wt.net...
>
> You know what's amazing? In tests of 49th level magician pets versus 49th
> level necromancer pets, with both pets fully buffed by their respective
> masters and the necromancer pets daggered, the magician pets kill the
> necromancer pets while the magician pet still has half or more HPs left,
in
> seven out of eight tests.
>
Just to quash this part of the argument:
I don't care that the enchanter pet deals twice the damage per minute I do;
it's uncontrollable and a trainmaker.
I don't care that the shaman pet comes close to me; well, I do, but it's
balanced as pets go, and with planar gear, any melee class can best it.
Shamans in general are probably overpowered- it's not really the pets.
I don't care that magician pets can outdamage me- because they can't. They
have a TON of hit points, which is why they beat the necro pet (or damage
shields in the case of Fire)- but they don't deal the damage I do. I DO care
that they now cast spells, but that by itself doesn't make them gods; it's
even a disadvantage for the earth pet when grouping. Plus, the magician
class isn't filled with idiots like a lot of necros are these days- and
there aren't enough of them to take spots away from melees in groups on a
consistent basis.
I *do* care about the necro pets. They outdamage me by a truckload; they
have my hit points, and more than a ranger or paladin's; their masters can
play dead while the pets run around randomly; and now, they cast spells,
too. Furthermore, necros DO take the place of melee classes in groups; in
LGuk, they now do it all the time.
And they do all this because of a patch fuckup in beta.
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
gippah
Adar wrote in message <84j8gu$th3$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net>...
>Just to quash this part of the argument:
If "quash" now means "cry and whine", yes you did that very well.
Grigori di Corci
>
>Adar wrote in message <84j8gu$th3$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net>...
>>Just to quash this part of the argument:
>
>If "quash" now means "cry and whine", yes you did that very well.
With arguments like the "quash" dude has made, I think it's becoming pretty
clear why people are always whining about necromancers. Let's see, with the
exception of Clerics, the healers, pure casters, and bards are just superior
to the melee classes.
Shamans and Enchanters are just way too valuable to the melee dude's
survival to whine about, even though the Shaman is the most overpowered
class in the game. Oh no, who's going to Togor's Insect for you? Who's
going to Alacrity you? Who's going to cut down on your down time? Nobody
whines about Bards because these guys just cut down on your downtime no
matter what your party composition, and they are damn spiffy in a fight too,
especially when you are missing Shamans and Enchanters.
Druids and Wizards are also too valuable to the melee dude's survival to
whine about. I mean, when something goes wrong deep in SolB, who's going to
evac you the heck out? Who's going to Chloroplast your butt? When the going
gets tough, who's going to burn you out of trouble? Well, I guess the
Magician can do that too. And as an added bonus, if you pull one too many,
the Magician pet can solo it long enough for you to kill one with burn and
then do the other, not like those scrawny Necromancer pets who are always
dead by the sixteenth second to let the second mob wreck your caster ranks.
Oh freaking no, now the melee dude says, you are now going to take these
pansy-assed wimpy necromancers over us? You finally realized that EVEN these
don't-offer-anything-to-help-me-in-teams jerks, these useless-in-a-party
punks are BETTER than melee dudes in a team for tried-and-true combat? No
siree, no freaking way we melee dudes are going to take this insult sitting
down!
No freaking way! The other casters we need, damnit, we gotta have their
awesome ass party powers to keep us alive. The fact that they don't seem to
want us in their party anymore notwithstaning 'cause we can't live without
them. They are just essential in keeping us "viable." C'mon you guys, love
us, not each others, let us leech off you for some brown nectar of
experience.
The necromancer pansies, on the other hand, these useless pieces of dunst
don't do anything for us in a team, and we can do without them, we SHOULD do
without them. These necromancer jerks add nothing to the party. The only
thing they are good for is to replace US because we stink so much. This is
the final straw folks! This we melee dudes will not stand for! Down with
these jerks and give us our dignity back!
--Grigori di Corci
Morgan
>
> With arguments like the "quash" dude has made, I think it's becoming pretty
> clear why people are always whining about necromancers. Let's see, with the
> exception of Clerics, the healers, pure casters, and bards are just superior
> to the melee classes.
>
> Shamans and Enchanters are just way too valuable to the melee dude's
> survival to whine about, even though the Shaman is the most overpowered
> class in the game. Oh no, who's going to Togor's Insect for you? Who's
> going to Alacrity you? Who's going to cut down on your down time? Nobody
> whines about Bards because these guys just cut down on your downtime no
> matter what your party composition, and they are damn spiffy in a fight too,
> especially when you are missing Shamans and Enchanters.
People don't whine and moan about the power of Shamans, Enchanters and
Bards because the power of those classes is not so much in direct death-
dealing ability, as in the way they enhance a group. Alacrity, Togor's,
Tepid Deeds, Clarity, etc. make other people much better at what they do.
The reason the Enchanter-Bard-Bard-Bard-Bard-Wizard group has the Wizard
is that otherwise it wouldn't really be able to kill things.
> Druids and Wizards are also too valuable to the melee dude's survival to
> whine about. I mean, when something goes wrong deep in SolB, who's going to
> evac you the heck out? Who's going to Chloroplast your butt? When the going
> gets tough, who's going to burn you out of trouble? Well, I guess the
> Magician can do that too. And as an added bonus, if you pull one too many,
> the Magician pet can solo it long enough for you to kill one with burn and
> then do the other, not like those scrawny Necromancer pets who are always
> dead by the sixteenth second to let the second mob wreck your caster ranks.
Wizards are incredibly limited. Paladins and Rangers have many more
combat options than Wizards do. Wizards have three: Burn, Run Away, and
Do Nothing. Have you ever seen a group that wants two Wizards? You want
one for the "Run Away" option and the taxi service, but two is redundant.
I still believe that Druids are over-powered. Given their abilities in
transportation and healing, their ability to do damage with magic is too
strong.
--
Morgan Cembyr, Wood Elf Ranger on E'Ci
Xymarra, High Elf Enchanter on E'Ci
Caela, Wood Elf Druid on E'Ci
Anja, Barbarian Shaman on E'Ci
(crossposting all posts to rec.games.computer.everquest)
Matt Frisch
ether:
>On Tue, 28 Dec 1999 06:27:15 GMT, matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt
>Frisch) wrote:
>>>That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon.
>>
>>It is an exploit.
>>
>>
>>EVERYONE IN THE GAME IS IN COMPETITION WITH EVERYONE ELSE.
>>If a character is very powerful solo, they are even WORSE when more than
>>one of them gangs up. At the rate that necromancer pets get outlandish
>>benefits from weapon specs and procs, it won't be long until a group of a
>>tiny handful of necromancers goes and chops down one of the dragons, or
>>kills Cazic-Thule or Innourouk. My deepest sympathies to your gene pool if
>>you do not comprehend why this is a bad thing.
>>
>>Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
>>you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
>>all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
>
>All I have for you is a couple of easy to answer questions the first
>being; How exactly is handing a pet a weapon an exploit ?
>Make that the last question too I'll throw in some filler stuff
>though.
>Are players able to hand thier pets weapons ? answer yes
>Are some pets able to duel wield ? Yes
>Are pets NPCs ? debatable but for arguments sake yes
Not debatable, pets are NPCs.
>Can npc's wielding a weapon use that weapons proc? yup
>Can some NPC's dual wield? damn betcha
>Can npcs run and cast and other wise contravene rules? yes
>Do npcs use the better of a weapons speed vs thier own? yes
>Do npcs use the better of a weapons dam vs thier own ? yes
>Should you be able to hand an npc a weapon that makes it do less dam?
>no lady vox with the dam/speed of a rusty dagger is much more
>exploitable.
>now then How exactly is handing a pet a weapon an exploit?
The difference between game NPCs cheating the rules and pets cheating the
rules is that the pets work for the players, and while unfairness is not a
consideration to the mobs, the players are paying customers, and fairness
in the treatment of classes is not merely something to expect, it is to be
demanded. The whole intent of being able to arm a pet was to give it some
kind of uniqueness, since up until very recently, all necro pets looked
exactly the same, which is unlike the 4 magician pet types. Unfortunately,
the bug creeped in where you could give weapons to npcs and hurt their
ability to fight, and in fixing THAT exploit, verant simply introduced a
new one that players could take advantage of even easier than the original
one (if not quite as severe in scale).
Want pets to be armed? Fine, don't give them the benefit of the weapon
speed for their fighting, and don't have the weapon proc take effect.
If you want your pet to cast, play a magician, not a necromancer.
>Ladies and gentlemen pets need to be something.
And they are, even without weapon exploits.
>Pets are part of the NPC table as such they wield like an npc would
>wield. To change that you would also need to REMOVE ALL CHARM SPELLS
>or have charmed npc's switch abilities to that of the nearest pc
>race/class.
Charm spells are not anywhere NEAR what a pet can do. Charms are resisted
(quite frequently), most things that are really worthwhile to charm are
totally immune to it just to prevent that sort of abuse, and charm is
exceedingly temporary. Nobody is going to be using charm to make
unstoppable armies.
Matt Frisch
into the ether:
>Matt Frisch <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>news:3868589c...@news.earthlink.net...
>> On 27 Dec 1999 23:10:03 -0600, ec...@oobik.com (Philbo) scribed into the
>> ether:
>>
>> >In article <8cU94.2489$Ev3....@cmnws01.we.mediaone.net>, "Donny Trimm"
><piousp_@_lightspeed.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >If you took away the Necros pet, or nerfed it, you'd have a Shadow Knight
>that
>> >couldn't weild any swords nor wear any plate armor. That's basically what
>> >these people are asking Verant to do.
>>
>> Necromancers still retain a large list of extremely useful spells, leaving
>> their pets aside. The fact that their pet is superman just adds insult to
>> injury.
>
> Our pet is no more powerful than a magician's pet.
Normally no, but once you arm it, it becomes Death Incarnate (assuming you
use your brain at all in selecting the weapon).
> I'm really trying to
>understand the reason despite this, people point their fingers at necros.
Because necro pets wielding weapons are horribly bugged, and anyone who has
had a campground taken from their group of 4 by a single necro only a few
levels higher can attest to this.
>> > Being a Melee class, I stiull respect Necros.
>>
>> Can't imagine why, they sure as hell don't respect you.
>
> I must have missed the part where we made you the necro spokesperson.
I must have missed it too, since if I was the necro spokesperson, I would
have said "WE SURE AS HELL DON'T RESPECT YOU"...but I didn't say that.
>> > They go through a lot of KOS shit, and
>> >pretty much cant even do much within the game.
>>
>> The same situation exists with every character class. All of my
>characters,
>> ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
>> game. Necromancers just have to avoid towns. Oh no, what a burden.
>
> Please explain to me how your wood elf and barbarian suffer the same KOS
>problems as my dark elf necro. I can name off at least 5 zones (OOT is a
>great example) where KOS means I get to junk all my gold, silver, copper
>pieces and any fine steel weapons I find. Before you say "high levels have
>tons of plat..they don't care about money". This is because they can sell
>off all the crap dropped in dungeons to various nearby merchants. I'm level
>45 and for the first time ever have over 2000 plat in the bank, which is
>already earmarked for a tinker bag. If I wasn't KoS to 90% of the merchants
>in Norath, I might actually have enough plat to buy that tinker's bag.
My conclusion would be that you have no clue how to make or save money. My
(untwinked) rogue would have close to 1500 platinum in the bank at level
19, if not for a bunch of recent trade bazaar visits. And rogues hardly
have super faction, plenty of merchants (my own race included) want little
to do with me, and even using the sneak trick to get them to deal with me
at ALL, the prices blow chunks compared to an "accepted" member of the
race.
>> What a fair exchange for them to be able to out-perform any 2--5 (number
>depends
>> on the classes of the characters you choose) other characters combined in
>> combat.
>
> *shock* Another bullshit statement in the never-ending smear campaign
>against necros.
I've seen it, and heard endless stories about it. Necro pets are broken.
Accept it, because it's true.
Matt Frisch
the ether:
>
>Matt Frisch <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>news:3868589c...@news.earthlink.net...
>> On 27 Dec 1999 23:10:03 -0600, ec...@oobik.com (Philbo) scribed into the
>> ether:
>> > Least Verant has said they wont modify
>> >any class drastically any longer, so they can whine all they want.
>>
>> And you believe verant in this? Your stupidity is epic.
>
>As is your arrogance.
So I'm to take this statement to read "I think verant will not make any
more drastic class modifications"....a question for you: Are you able to
dress yourself in the morning, or do you hire someone for the task?
>> > They go through a lot of KOS shit, and
>> >pretty much cant even do much within the game.
>>
>> The same situation exists with every character class. All of my
>characters,
>> ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
>> game. Necromancers just have to avoid towns. Oh no, what a burden.
>
>You know what? You've used that justification before, and its absolute,
>utter bullshit.
No its not. I've played dark elves, and endured their exceptionally poor
faction ratings, and really, it was not substantially worse than any other
character, except when I went near a town. Hill giants squish paladins with
as much gusto as they do necromancers.
> Claiming that monsters attack you on sight makes you KOS in
>90% of the game and saying that it gives your characters just as hard a time
>as a Necro is a crock.
No, necros have a worse time, and I never claimed otherwise. But using
their KOS restrictions as a basis for claiming the class is weak is a load
of crap. Paladins have some of the best factions in the game, does that
balance out for the fact that they blow chunks in melee compared to any
other melee class? No, it doesn't.
Matt Frisch
ether:
>In article <38685726...@news.earthlink.net>, matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt Frisch) wrote:
>
>>EVERYONE IN THE GAME IS IN COMPETITION WITH EVERYONE ELSE.
>>If a character is very powerful solo, they are even WORSE when more than
>>one of them gangs up. At the rate that necromancer pets get outlandish
>>benefits from weapon specs and procs, it won't be long until a group of a
>>tiny handful of necromancers goes and chops down one of the dragons, or
>>kills Cazic-Thule or Innourouk. My deepest sympathies to your gene pool if
>>you do not comprehend why this is a bad thing.
>>
>>Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
>>you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
>>all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
>
>I love how people over-exaggerate everything. Once again, it is clearly not an
>exploit. If the weapon didn't proc, then something would be broken.
So what you are trying to say is that you believe it is a good thing that
your pet is able to hit faster, and more reliably than an equivalent level
warrior, plus get the benefits of a very speedy or proccing weapon?
You actually think that?
Matt Frisch
ether:
>Well, here we go again. Melee classes whining about how powerful this is or
>that is compared to them. First of all, yes our pets are powerful. My 49th
>pet can rock Freeport guards easily with no help from me whatsoever. Are
>pets physically stronger than warriors.. IMHO yes. So we fix the problem by
>nerfing Necro pets down to nothing so meleers can feel better about
>themselves.
Why have melee characters when pets fight better?
> Well let me tell you something about our awesome pets. One they
>take an awesome amt of exp from us particularly when we allow it to deal the
>final blow in a solo situation.
You actually still believe this horseshit? Aside from the fact that its
been demonstrated false in the game, gordon has come to this very newsgroup
(and the forum on the eq website) and said that
a) The final blow thing is a complete myth
b) Pets take MINISCULE portions of xp, particularly in groups.
And furthermore, even if the pet took as much as 10%, that is still a hell
of a lot less than an equivalent power melee character would be draining
from your take, and they heal up a lot faster, are completely expendable,
and never log out to eat dinner just when you get a choice spawn site.
Matt Frisch
into the ether:
>Matt Frisch wrote:
>>
>>
>> Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
>> you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
>> all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
>
>Roleplaying.
EQ is well...a very poor role playing game.
Most people are much more practical about the whole thing, as class counts
on newer servers amply demonstrates.
Matt Frisch
scribed into the ether:
>Matt Frisch <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>:>That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon.
>: It is an exploit.
>
>When Verant declares it to be an exploit, punishable by banning
>then and only then is it an exploit.
Verant has hardly impressed me with their gameplay response.
Examples abound, such as not removing items changed in spawns, like the abu
kar box, and the guise of the deceiver.
They are either incapable, or unwilling to make the changes necesary to
prevent necro pets from getting all the benefits and none of the drawbacks
of weapon selection, and people who use it, are exploiting a known bug.
Matt Frisch
into the ether:
>Matt Frisch <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>news:38685726...@news.earthlink.net...
>>snip<
>> >That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon.
>>
>> It is an exploit.
>
> Pets can wield weapons. A gnoll lariat is a weapon. Where did the exploit
>part creep into this rather simple equation?
Because the weapon does more than just look pretty. It significantly
enhances the pet's already considerable fighting ability. If necro pets
were meant to be able to stun, why should you equipment them with a weapon
to do it? Obvious answer: They are NOT meant to stun, and having them able
to do it by wielding the lariat is un-intended, and therefore a bug and an
exploit.
>> Your manifest stupidity barely makes responding worthwhile, but on the
>very
>> remote chance of cracking through the granite that is your skull and
>> introducing the light of intelligence to that feeble ball of grey matter
>> which the world laughingly refers to as "your brain", here we go:
>>
>> EVERYONE IN THE GAME IS IN COMPETITION WITH EVERYONE ELSE.
>> If a character is very powerful solo, they are even WORSE when more than
>> one of them gangs up
>
> Not really. When necros group up, their DoT's do not stack. Its much more
>effective to group with a druid or shaman. Perhaps it is you who needs to
>put a crack in your granite skull.
Necros have more than 1 line of DoT, and they do stack quite well,
thankyouverymuch.
>> At the rate that necromancer pets get outlandish
>> benefits from weapon specs and procs, it won't be long until a group of a
>> tiny handful of necromancers goes and chops down one of the dragons, or
>> kills Cazic-Thule or Innourouk. My deepest sympathies to your gene pool if
>> you do not comprehend why this is a bad thing.
>
> What an exciting server you play on, where necromancers with pets that can
>stun are able to slay dragons and gods!
Not quite up on your reading skills are you?
>> Necromancer pets need to be as strong as a melee class!? Where the fuck do
>> you get this insane idea? What is the point of HAVING the melee classes at
>> all? I am dying to hear the answer to that.
>
> If you don't understand why a warrior is desirable over a mindless pet, I'm
>not going to waste the time explaining it to an obvious newbie.
Warriors have 1 major advantage over a pet: They don't pace around
constantly in a dungeon, falling off bridges or getting you trained.
Pets do more damage, don't complain about anything, take an tiny fraction
of the xp, are totally expendable, and subject to all kinds of advantageous
bugs.
Matt Frisch
ether:
>In article <3868589c...@news.earthlink.net>, matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt Frisch) wrote:
>
>>Necromancers still retain a large list of extremely useful spells, leaving
>>their pets aside. The fact that their pet is superman just adds insult to
>>injury.
>
>Heh, you have never PLAYED or even GROUPED with a Necro without
>a pet have you? You really have no clue as to what you're talking about.
>All you seem to know how to do is pithy insults, which just shows how immature
>you are and the rest of your 12 year old nerf squad. Come back to us when you
>can honestly say that Necros with wuss pets are still a viable class.
Even someone who has never played can look at a spoiler site spell list and
see what necromancers have. Not precisely brain surgery here.
>>The same situation exists with every character class. All of my characters,
>>ranging from dark elves to barbarians to wood elves are KOS in 90%+ of the
>
>I'm starting to wonder if you have even played Everquest.
Are you saying that I am wrong? Pick any character, and name for me 1 place
outside of a town where that character is not KOS by any mob in the zone.
Neuriot
Frisch) wrote:
>
>> Well let me tell you something about our awesome pets. One they
>>take an awesome amt of exp from us particularly when we allow it to deal the
>>final blow in a solo situation.
>
>You actually still believe this horseshit? Aside from the fact that its
>been demonstrated false in the game, gordon has come to this very newsgroup
>(and the forum on the eq website) and said that
>a) The final blow thing is a complete myth
>b) Pets take MINISCULE portions of xp, particularly in groups.
Have you ever played a Necromancer.? Despite what Gordon may have
claimed, pets do take a larger percentage of exp when they get the
killing blow in a solo situation. The final blow in a group situation
is the myth.
As far as a miniscule amount of experience being taken when you solo
with a pet, you must be nuts to think that. I was hunting the
alluring sirens in OOT today. The sirens are still yellow and red to
me so quite often my pet will die and I'll have to finish them myself.
When I did, I would get noticeable amounts of experience over what I
got when I had a pet. When my pet got the killing blow, I would get
noticeable amounts less. I was getting about 1/4 bubble when I
started if I got the killing blow. Only got about 1/6 a bubble if my
pet finished the mob.
It is true though that in a group the pet takes next to nothing.
Supposedly only 1%.
>And furthermore, even if the pet took as much as 10%, that is still a hell
>of a lot less than an equivalent power melee character would be draining
>from your take, and they heal up a lot faster, are completely expendable,
>and never log out to eat dinner just when you get a choice spawn site.
I think that you should just try playing a Necro up until say 12th
level. Try out the different things that everybody is talking about.
The exp with and without a pet. Killing blows. Grouping. Do this
and then come back and tell us Necromancers the truth about are class.
Neuriot
Neuriot
Frisch) wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 03:43:19 -0500, "Joe C." <gu...@mindspring.com> scribed
>into the ether:
>> Not really. When necros group up, their DoT's do not stack. Its much more
>>effective to group with a druid or shaman. Perhaps it is you who needs to
>>put a crack in your granite skull.
>
>Necros have more than 1 line of DoT, and they do stack quite well,
>thankyouverymuch.
Yes Necromancers have more than 1 line of DoT's...
That wasn't what his point was though. His point was that when to
Necromancers group, they lose effectiveness because when one casts
Engulfing Darkness its useless for the other to cast the Engulfing
Darkness. The spell effect won't double on the mob, therefore making
it unstackable.
And yes, the different DoT's do stack quite well when there is only
one of each type cast on the mob.
Neuriot
woo...@my-deja.com
matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt Frisch) wrote:
> > Well let me tell you something about our awesome pets. One they
> >take an awesome amt of exp from us particularly when we allow it to
> >deal the final blow in a solo situation.
>
> You actually still believe this horseshit? Aside from the fact that
> its been demonstrated false in the game, gordon has come to this very
> newsgroup (and the forum on the eq website) and said that
> a) The final blow thing is a complete myth
> b) Pets take MINISCULE portions of xp, particularly in groups.
To clarify:
In groups, pets take a miniscule portion of xp. Solo, they take either
half or none at all, depending on the fight. There have been tests done
to verify this. (Create a level 1 pet class, see how many rats it takes
to get to level 2 under varying conditions.) If you do more than half
the total damage to the monster, the pet takes no exp. If the pet does
the majority of the damage, it takes half the exp, REGARDLESS of who
gets the killing blow.
Examples from the test results were:
No pet: 10 rats to level 2
Pet is conjured and does more than half damage each time: 20 rats
Pet is conjured, but player does majority of damage each time: 10 rats
Killing blow determined to be irrelevant.
I'd post the original test itself, but I can't remember the URL. I
think it came from a post on castersrealm.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
mida...@my-deja.com
matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt Frisch) wrote:
> No, necros have a worse time, and I never claimed otherwise. But
> using their KOS restrictions as a basis for claiming the class is
> weak is a load of crap. Paladins have some of the best factions in
> the game, does that balance out for the fact that they blow chunks in
> melee compared to any other melee class? No, it doesn't.
No. What balances out Paladin's "weak" melee abilities is that they
actually possess useful healing spells, buffs, stuns and root.
Paladins are a strong class when played right.
Necromancers aren't just KOS to the run-of-the-mill NPCs like guards
and such. They are KOS or dubious to most merchants and bankers. Most
people who haven't played an evil character past the mid-teens have no
idea how much downtime is involved in lugging yourself across a
continent from Permafrost or Mistmoore to sell loot and bank.
Necromancers ARE a strong class. People who argue otherwise are
kidding only themselves. But they aren't really superior to any other
pure caster class, and have a lot more disadvantages.
mida...@my-deja.com
matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com (Matt Frisch) wrote:
>
> Why have melee characters when pets fight better?
>
There is more to fighting than shelling out damage.
This doesn't start to be an issue till 39th level, and doesn't really
mature into one until a necromancer gets the 44th level pet spell.
Even then, pets still have lower AC, lower health, no effective taunt
and are as dumb as rocks.
Honestly, are their any Fear or Hate groups turning away tanks because
they already have a necromancer?
Lyion
> draining
> >from your take, and they heal up a lot faster, are completely
> expendable,
> >and never log out to eat dinner just when you get a choice spawn
> site.
> I think that you should just try playing a Necro up until say 12th
> level. Try out the different things that everybody is talking
> about.
> The exp with and without a pet. Killing blows. Grouping. Do this
> and then come back and tell us Necromancers the truth about are
> class.
The problem with the Nec class isn't the pet or the nec spells or the
exp penalty. Although you obviously haven't made it very far as a Nec.
The problem is when you give a 44 or 49 Nec pet 2 fast weapons, and
buff it. The pet can easily outdamage 2 level 50 Warriors.
39 and under Nec is a strong, balanced class, and not overbearing even
with the fast weap exploit. At 44 & 49 it is extremely unbalanced and
can do more damage than a group consisting of a Wizard, Shaman, and
Warrior, even with the Shaman Doggie.
Verant for all their talk of balance continues to allow 1-2 Necs to be
more powerful then groups of 6 adventurers. I have no problem with Necs
being able to Solo. I do have a problem when they are more powerful
than a full group. Feign Death does not kill a pet. So a Nec owner in
need of exp can FD send in the pet, and every few minutes repeat.
Doesnt even have to get up or risk death. Plus with the Fast weapon
exploit they can easily kill mobs groups would have problems with.
The power difference between a 39 Nec and 44 Nec is extraordinary. A 49
Nec even more so.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Hippie Ramone
: Because the weapon does more than just look pretty. It significantly
: enhances the pet's already considerable fighting ability. If necro pets
: were meant to be able to stun, why should you equipment them with a weapon
: to do it? Obvious answer: They are NOT meant to stun, and having them able
: to do it by wielding the lariat is un-intended, and therefore a bug and an
: exploit.
That is some convoluted logic there. It's akin to saying if PCs
were meant to have say Ykesha effect it would be coded intothem and
not the weapon. Until someone from Verant declares that to be a "bug"
then it isn't. I rather bet the proc goes off for the mob that drops
the silly weap too. Probably intentionally.
K
Hippie Ramone
: They are either incapable, or unwilling to make the changes necesary to
: prevent necro pets from getting all the benefits and none of the drawbacks
: of weapon selection, and people who use it, are exploiting a known bug.
There you go again, talking smack.
K
zi...@nb.sympatico.ca
Frisch) wrote:
>
>The difference between game NPCs cheating the rules and pets cheating the
>rules is that the pets work for the players, and while unfairness is not a
>consideration to the mobs, the players are paying customers, and fairness
>in the treatment of classes is not merely something to expect, it is to be
>demanded. The whole intent of being able to arm a pet was to give it some
>kind of uniqueness, since up until very recently, all necro pets looked
>exactly the same, which is unlike the 4 magician pet types. Unfortunately,
>the bug creeped in where you could give weapons to npcs and hurt their
>ability to fight, and in fixing THAT exploit, verant simply introduced a
>new one that players could take advantage of even easier than the original
>one (if not quite as severe in scale).
>
>Want pets to be armed? Fine, don't give them the benefit of the weapon
>speed for their fighting, and don't have the weapon proc take effect.
>
>If you want your pet to cast, play a magician, not a necromancer.
>
>>Ladies and gentlemen pets need to be something.
>
>And they are, even without weapon exploits.
>
You misunderstand.. they need to be on a table two of which exist for
damage and speed npc and pc. npc anything that is not an un charmed
player charcter. pc any uncharmed player character. All Npc's follow
the same rules even when a pc becomes an npc by being charmed the
rules change. You seem to want us to be able to hand vox a club and
have at her. Sure they could add a third category but this is verant
we are talking about
zi...@nb.sympatico.ca
Frisch) wrote:
>On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 03:17:20 -0500, "Joe C." <gu...@mindspring.com> scribed
>into the ether:
>
>>Matt Frisch <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>>news:3868589c...@news.earthlink.net...
>>> On 27 Dec 1999 23:10:03 -0600, ec...@oobik.com (Philbo) scribed into the
>>> ether:
>>>
>>> >In article <8cU94.2489$Ev3....@cmnws01.we.mediaone.net>, "Donny Trimm"
>><piousp_@_lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
>Because necro pets wielding weapons are horribly bugged, and anyone who has
>had a campground taken from their group of 4 by a single necro only a few
>levels higher can attest to this.
>
Again necro pets wielding weapons follow the exact same rules as any
other npc (pet or otherwise) wielding a weapon. thems the rules deal
with it or change the rules for all Npc's
zi...@nb.sympatico.ca
Frisch) wrote:
>On 28 Dec 1999 18:26:26 GMT, Hippie Ramone <kde...@jelerak.scrye.com>
>scribed into the ether:
>
>>Matt Frisch <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>>:>That's not an exploit. Thats a pet weilding a weapon.
>>: It is an exploit.
>>
>>When Verant declares it to be an exploit, punishable by banning
>>then and only then is it an exploit.
>
>Verant has hardly impressed me with their gameplay response.
>
>Examples abound, such as not removing items changed in spawns, like the abu
>kar box, and the guise of the deceiver.
>
>They are either incapable, or unwilling to make the changes necesary to
>prevent necro pets from getting all the benefits and none of the drawbacks
>of weapon selection, and people who use it, are exploiting a known bug.
Again necro pets follow the exact same rules as any other npc wielding
a weapon. Don't make me come over there
Philbo
>My conclusion would be that you have no clue how to make or save money. My
>(untwinked) rogue would have close to 1500 platinum in the bank at level
Well, this explains your endless rants wanting to nerf a character out of
existance.
You play a rogue. I really feel for ya man, but you don't have to take it out
on other classes. You can arm any other pets. Enchanters can give the same
weapons to their pets _and_ cast the quickness line on them to boot. Necro
pets are really not that much more powerfull.
Philbo
>You actually still believe this horseshit? Aside from the fact that its
>been demonstrated false in the game, gordon has come to this very newsgroup
>(and the forum on the eq website) and said that
>a) The final blow thing is a complete myth
>b) Pets take MINISCULE portions of xp, particularly in groups.
Completely _WRONG_. He said when someone is SOLO with a PET,
the PET takes a _HUGE_ amount of experience. When they are grouped,
THEN it becomes MINISCULE.
Since you responded to a message about a Necro soloing guards, saying it
takes hardly any EXP is a total lie.