People who play on Blue servers haven't experienced half of EQ
Menotti
main and someone is pissing me off, I annihilate them. It's that simple.
Also, there is nothing like making a darkie with my friends and raiding EC
and Freeport.
I don't know if i would have fun in EQ without PvP. It actually gives a
sense of danger and difficulty, unlike the bluebie servers. Goes to show
you...people made characters on SZ and couldnt take it...so they went back
to their bluebie servers.
The real EQ players are on PvP servers
thats my 2cp
[you may begin flames now]
Dark Tyger
*shrug* Compare the average population on the (only) 4 pvp servers to
the average populations on the rest. Consider how the "blue" servers
vastly outnumber the pvp servers. You'll see how widely your opinion
is shared.
Now, stop trying to shove it off on others.
--
Dark Tyger, the slightly eccentric, railgun-toting kitty kat
Change "mindspring.com" to "knology.net" to email
=^..^=
The night is my companion...solitude my guide.
Richard
news:W3dc7.75345$uj2.10...@news02.optonline.net...
Posting this blather once wasn't enough for you?
--
Graeme, Barbarian Shaman of 31 seasons, Erollisi Marr
Tainneal, Halfling Warrior of 22 seasons, Erollisi Marr
007 ;=--
great fun. On Ultima Online they had a PvP server where you could max out
your charachters skills right at the beginning and then go equip yourself
with the money provided in your bank.
You could then proceed to run about the town beating seven shades of hell
out of eachother.
I personally thought this was a much better PvP environment as it put
everyone on the same level except for raw skill (how all PvP should be) and
knowledge of the game. It also allowed the veteran players a a place to go
to vent their anger on newbies.
Ahhhh UO was a great concept ruined by poor graphics and lag.
:(
"Menotti" <ode...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:W3dc7.75345$uj2.10...@news02.optonline.net...
Bradmeister
>>>SNIP<<<
>> Goes to show you...people made characters on SZ and couldnt take it...so
they went back to their bluebie servers. <<
No, people made evil characters on SZ ... then looked around and saw so did
80% of the other people ... then remembered that evils can't attack evils
... then realized "damn, I might as well be on a blue server"
--
"Ever stop to think ... then forget to start again?"
Gortha Strongwill, Dwarven Warrior of 26 seasons
Loniyak, High Elf Magician of 6 seasons
Prexus server
(remove "ao" to email any responses)
Menotti
comes in. The only people who whine about being killed are the stupid ones
(bound accross the continent or carrying loads of $$$ on them)
"*shrug* Compare the average population on the (only) 4 pvp servers to
the average populations on the rest. Consider how the "blue" servers
vastly outnumber the pvp servers. You'll see how widely your opinion
is shared."
The reason why people like blue servers is because it is MUCH easier to
level on them because you factor out all danger but the NPC's danger.
I would like to hear opinions of people who play on PvP...
Gene
*Yawn*
Menotti
Funny coming from somone on E.Marr server...
havent heard 1 opinion of someone from the Zeks
Menotti
Lokari
>havent heard 1 opinion of someone from the Zeks
Probably because they're mature enough to not be insulting to
strangers based upon what server they choose to play on.
--
Drake
> You must be yawning cuz ur bored on ur bluebie server
cya
Ken
~M~
"Menotti" <ode...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:W3dc7.75345$uj2.10...@news02.optonline.net...
StanMann
Although, some of them tend to be arrogant, the good ones(Mutahq for
example) Don't go around shouting Poon.
StanMann
--
OK, I have tremendous admiration for someone who goes to the trouble of
learning American English when it isn't their native tongue, but there
is
precious little that is funnier than someone cursing in English when
they
aren't completely fluent in it. It's made even funnier when they're
apopleptic with rage, as Arnaud here is.--Brandon Blackmoor
John M Clancy
I don't have to eat dogshit to know it tastes bad, I can just smell it
and make that determination. PvP smells really bad to me.
That's my 2 cp.
Halfpole
> i posted it in an old thread so i figured id make it its own topic
>
> Funny coming from somone on E.Marr server...
>
> havent heard 1 opinion of someone from the Zeks
>
>
I play on EMarr and Sullon Zek (and I occasionally visit Saryn, Vazelle, and
Tallon Zek.)
There are times I get bored playing Blue servers. I enjoy the thrill and
the extra danger of the PvP's. I enjoy the challenge of playing a good guy
in a land where people think you have to act like an ass to survive.
I enjoy doing what are considered suicidal things, like solo adventuring a
cleric in enemy territory, and escaping every attempt on my life. I enjoy
grouping together with fellow team mates to repell an attack on our
'homeland.' The trade skills seem more important on the PvP servers. There
is a comeradere and extra depth of roll-playing that comes with the Team
PvP's that seems to be a bit lacking on the Blue servers. It puts a whole
new twist on EQ.
But then there are times I get bored of the PvP servers, too. I personally
don't like to squish other players just because I can (I'll go play Quake or
Unreal Tournament if I want that). Sometimes I _don't_ want the extra
tension, paranoia, and stress that comes with PvP. I tire of the childish
attitudes of hardcore PK'ers who cannot stomach the presence of RP'ers in an
RP'ing game. Then I return to my bluebee servers.... for a while.
Both PvP and Bluebee servers give me a welcome relief from the other. I
play both. I would recommend that everyone give one of the PvP's a try, but
I don't think long term play on them is for everyone.
Verant is giving their customers what they want, when it comes to the number
of PvP servers vs. the number of Blue servers.
There are some flaws in the way EQ works on the PvP servers, too. Verant
has stated that EQ wasn't designed with PvP in mind, so some things on the
PvP servers don't work out very well.
One thing I think Verant was expecting PvP-wise that *didn't* happen, was
entire guilds of 'Red' players battling each other on the Blue servers
(which to me sounds like a fun idea.) The fact that you don't have Red
guilds dedicated to PvP on Blue servers, seems to incidate that most gamers
don't particularly care to have PK'ing as a regular part of their EQ
experience.
As it is, the PoD's main functions are gladiatorial entertainment, and for
lowbies to suicide themselves so they can respawn their food supply.
.
Dark Tyger
>"*shrug* Compare the average population on the (only) 4 pvp servers to
>the average populations on the rest. Consider how the "blue" servers
>vastly outnumber the pvp servers. You'll see how widely your opinion
>is shared."
>
>The reason why people like blue servers is because it is MUCH easier to
>level on them because you factor out all danger but the NPC's danger.
No, the reason why people like the blue servers is they don't have to
put up with having their day destroyind by some asshole greif players
who decided they weren't going to let them level today just for
kicks...
Dark Tyger
>You must be yawning cuz ur bored on ur bluebie server
>
You must be trolling because you're bored on your pvp player.
*plonk*
Menotti
you turned it into a troll by flaming me
im just saying the game is better on PvP servers
Dan Harmon
> bah! bluebies! PvP is the most fun aspect of EQ! When I play on VZ on my
> main and someone is pissing me off, I annihilate them. It's that simple.
Troll.
Dan Harmon
> I would like to hear opinions of people who play on PvP...
Of course you would...they're the least likely to call you a troll.
Alexander Mars
>Date: 8/8/01 8:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <W3dc7.75345$uj2.10...@news02.optonline.net>
Too bad EQ is one of the worst PvP games I ever played. I'd go back to UO
before playing on an EQ PvP server.
-Well, God was my co-pilot....but we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat
Him.
www.atar.com/alexmars (yet another useless web site)
www.atar.com/alexmars/aolinks.htm (actually useful AO links)
TwoHead
I for one had a fantastic PvP encounter last night, but it sure wasn't
in EQ. If you want to really play PvP style games you need to get out
of EQ and find one that has a better system for such play. EQ is
balanced for PvE and that balance is very much warped in terms of PvP.
The game I was in last night allowed me to respond to an attack by a
higher level player in such a way that if another member of his faction
hadn't come along and shot me in the head from behind twice I would have
probably taken him down. Tactics, skill and ability were overcoming
statistical disadvantage, battle may have been short, but good fun was
had by all. Well he enjoyed it less when I pointed out that he had
help, he thought he'd killed me alone, but still, that was a PvP
moment. Never had one of those in EQ PvP, only griefers.
If you really think you are ready, find a real PvP game. Then come let
us know how you liked it <EG>.
th
BONDA170
Wrote:
Why dont you play on Rallos? Too scared of losing your Ph4t L3wt?
Wylbur
:)
I play exclusively on the PvP servers. Started EQ a couple of years back on
Tunare I believe and liked it but always found it weird how races that were
supposed to hate one another would be seen grouped so I went to the PvP
servers. Just helped me play the game how I liked it and have fun.
The only thing I hate, and perhaps the dumbest thing you will ever hear in
EQ, is someone shouting across a zone '"so-and-so" is a PK!'. Well duh -
its a PvP server. This is usually followed by a series of pre-adolescent
posturing that fills the shout and ooc channels. This is usually followed
by me adding them to my ignore list so I don't have to listen to them.
In all my travels on Tallon Zek, I have to admit though that the number of
people who are intent on just being assholes is rather small. Just my
experience anyway. I'm sure others have other stories to tell. I never
started a char on the new one ... the rules looked to me like it might
create an environment where I would go beyond a little more "edge" in the
game as I describe playing on Tallon to possible anarchy so I decided to
stay away.
I guess the only other thing that is a concern on these servers is that you
can be limited on where you travel. I hear a lot of talk in here on zones
that I know my high elf cleric main char will likely not be able to go to.
Oh well, just makes me have to revisit the Iksar SK I have had on the shelf
for a number of months who will suffer the same problems. But its a price
I'm willing to pay for how I describe "fun" when playing EQ .... and I try
not to do it with poorly contrived flames of the general gaming populace :)
"Lokari" <lokari@_nospam_lokari.net> wrote in message
news:2v03nt4kdiuetf218...@4ax.com...
Cam
comment on one thing.
I think if it was possiable to raid places like you said (EC, Freeport, and
other cities) on the PvE servers, it would add MUCH more excitment to it.
On Tunare some people started to crush the guards and I was kinda helping
heh...it was fun!
--
"Do not try to interject logic into my rambling."
-Ethan Hammond from the PS NG
"Menotti" <ode...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:W3dc7.75345$uj2.10...@news02.optonline.net...
Discipia
> The real EQ players are on PvP servers
why cant u accept EQ is a good enough game to cater for both styles of
play? there is no need to start this "my dick is bigger than yours"
bullcrap. I think mummy has your dinner ready now.
> thats my 2cp
here is 1.5cp back, because you over paid.
Joe D
> In all my travels on Tallon Zek, I have to admit though that the number of
> people who are intent on just being assholes is rather small.
From what I've heard, the griefers rarely make it past level 10. If you can
make it past that level, you'll be ok. But while you're under level 10,
your whole day can be ruined by one person just because they think it'd be
fun.
I've been there before. No thanks. If a game came out with a workable PvP
system, with appropriate checks and balances in it, then I might be
interested in checking it out, but so far that hasn't happened.
Joe D
--
When you find yourself getting annoyed, remember that while it takes 42
muscles to frown, it only take 4 muscles to reach up and smack the annoying
asshole upside the head.
Drake
> ok for all u people who think this is a troll, stfu right now
>
> you turned it into a troll by flaming me
>
> im just saying the game is better on PvP servers
you stfu you dummy head
Drake
news:3Igc7.126396$li.86...@bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Or he might get the advice he really seeks: just how far do you have to be
away from 6 people beating you down before you can successfully get a gate
spell off?
Darren Chriest
<A bunch of bigotted, moronic crap>
I'm sorry... but I am of the opinion that I have experienced far more
of EQ than the average non-"bluebie". I would guess (based on my own
personal experiences on PvP servers) that the better, more challenging
zones and NPCs such as VP, DN, SG, Kael Velks, ToV, Sky, Hate, Fear,
Naggy, Vox, VS, etc, etc.. are rarely utilized because of the inherent
uncooperative and untrusting nature of PvP servers.
So there.
If you were attepting to insult me you have succeeded, but I don't
relly give a shit about you opinion. Not anymore.
Frank Nowling
"Menotti" <ode...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:W3dc7.75345$uj2.10...@news02.optonline.net...
> bah! bluebies! PvP is the most fun aspect of EQ! When I play on VZ on my
> main and someone is pissing me off, I annihilate them. It's that simple.
>
> Also, there is nothing like making a darkie with my friends and raiding EC
> and Freeport.
>
> I don't know if i would have fun in EQ without PvP. It actually gives a
> sense of danger and difficulty, unlike the bluebie servers. Goes to show
> you...people made characters on SZ and couldnt take it...so they went back
> to their bluebie servers.
>
> The real EQ players are on PvP servers
>
Leo Johnson
Then why bother posting more of your bullshit, other than
the fact that you are and always will be a TROLL!!!!!!
--
Cthulhu Loves Me
Author unknown:
Cthulhu loves me, this I know
For the High Priests tell me so
He won't eat me, no not yet
He's our Lord, all dank and wet
Dan Day
>
>Probably because they're mature enough to not be insulting to
>strangers based upon what server they choose to play on.
*applause*
Corey Ashford
but quickly moved to Tallon Zek when friends of mine said they'd like me
to join with their group at some point when my character's up to snuff.
My experience so far is that most people there are not there to kill for
no reason. There are a few that just seem to enjoy playing a very thin
character, e.g. "I'm a gnome, and gnomes hate elves, so I will kill every
elf I can on sight". I suppose that's ok (and have been PK'd that way
about 5 times so far), but it doesn't interest me. I'd rather
play a character that seems to have some moral code... like you said... you
don't kill till someone pisses you off. Or perhaps, you hate elves, but you
arrange to kill them in more subtle ways... trickery, cons, deception,
etc. Otherwise, it just turns into a video game.
And yes, it's much harder to level when you have to worry about people
attacking you while you are fighting off a mob (or are recovering from
having just fought one off). So what that tends to make me do is avoid
the areas where the PKers are and seek out other hunting grounds. So
in some ways it forces me to be a bit more adventurous.
Another side effect is that you don't ever want to carry any kind of money
around because of the looting after you are PK'd. This makes for frequent
trips to the bank. When I have to travel through a hostile area, I empty
my pockets at the bank first. For fun, sometimes I'll leave like 2 copper
in my pocket so that I can get the "oh gee, I got two cents off this stupid
druid" reaction :-)
One final thing is that the PKers I've run into so far have been very
generous about letting me get my corpse back. So far, I haven't experienced
any corpse camping. Indeed, on one corpse run, the guy that PK'd me gave
me several buffs when I saw him again! So there is hope for mankind.
"Menotti" <ode...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:fXec7.77326$uj2.10...@news02.optonline.net...
[snip]
Mark Bradshaw
wrote:
>bah! bluebies! PvP is the most fun aspect of EQ!
You misspelled "penis envy".
Mutahq
Menotti wrote:
>
> Being killed is part of PvP servers too...thats where the sense of danger
> comes in. The only people who whine about being killed are the stupid ones
> (bound accross the continent or carrying loads of $$$ on them)
>
> "*shrug* Compare the average population on the (only) 4 pvp servers to
> the average populations on the rest. Consider how the "blue" servers
> vastly outnumber the pvp servers. You'll see how widely your opinion
> is shared."
>
> The reason why people like blue servers is because it is MUCH easier to
> level on them because you factor out all danger but the NPC's danger.
>
> I would like to hear opinions of people who play on PvP...
I play on RZ (54nec, 35 wiz, both pk's) and SZ (27 druid). I refuse to
play on blue servers, because they bore me to death. To me, exp'ing and
killing mobs is the bad part of the game, and PvP is the good part.
However, thats my opinion. Its plainly obvious that other people enjoy
blue servers and the generally non-competitive atmosphere they have, and
its not my business to tell them what server is "better". I suggest you
just stick to playing PvP and leave all the bluebies to do the things
they enjoy.
The only time I really complain about "bluebies" is when they DO come to
a PvP server and their expectations arent met. Of course PvP isnt fair
most of the time in eq, you have to stack the odds as much in your
favour as possible. I hate the people who play on a PvP server, have
*stayed* on a PvP server with multiple chars for many months, even
years, and continue to bitch about PvP. However I've got no problem with
people playing blue servers, its their choice and it has no effect on
me.
Mutahq
Darren Chriest wrote:
>
> Menotti wrote:
>
> <A bunch of bigotted, moronic crap>
>
> I'm sorry... but I am of the opinion that I have experienced far more
> of EQ than the average non-"bluebie". I would guess (based on my own
> personal experiences on PvP servers) that the better, more challenging
> zones and NPCs such as VP, DN, SG, Kael Velks, ToV, Sky, Hate, Fear,
> Naggy, Vox, VS, etc, etc.. are rarely utilized because of the inherent
> uncooperative and untrusting nature of PvP servers.
Everything but sleepers tomb has been done on RZ. Most people on RZ dont
play solely for PvP, especially at high levels. Personally I haven't
even stepped foot in half those high level zones (tov, sky, VP etc) as
I'm a pk, but a lot of other people do the whole blue-style PvE raid
thing.
Mutahq
bizbee wrote:
>
> Yn erthygl <9ugc7.78056$uj2.11...@news02.optonline.net>, sgrifenws
> "Menotti" <ode...@optonline.net>:
>
> >ok for all u people who think this is a troll, stfu right now
> >
> >you turned it into a troll by flaming me
> >
> Does this line look familiar, dickhead?
>
> >[you may begin flames now]
>
> And of course, someone with a third grade education calling people
> names could <never> be construed to be a troll, could it?
>
> >im just saying the game is better on PvP servers
> >
> no it isn't. EQ wasn't designed to be a PvP game, hence, PvP sucks
> here. Most people involved in PvP in EQ realize that (but just put up
> with its shortcomings), but apparently you aren't intelligent enough
> to know that, nor have you most likely ever played PvP in a REAL PvP
> game.
PvP doesnt suck in EQ, its just an acquired taste (imo). Good thing is,
if someone doesnt acquire the taste, they don't have to participate.
The thing about PvP in eq is that a lot of the time the outcome is
situational. Even the terrain can affect PvP in one way or another. And
the risks for PvP (esp. on servers like rz, sz) tend to be very high. A
lot of people have complained about how PvP favours one class or
another, how it favours pk's, how it favours this and that etc etc, but
in reality its the person behind the keyboard thats at fault 99% of the
time.
Some people just dont get it that you should wear PvP gear (resists!!)
when travelling. They don't get it that they are at risk ALL the time.
I have payed the price for being a pk (so much for reputation doesnt
matter), i couldnt join a planar group if i wanted to. I couldnt get a
group in a dungeon if i wanted to. I get attacked by random people far
more than any non-pk. I have to use a mule to buy/sell/trade gear.
Pvp is actually quite in-depth in eq, but most people just dont bother
to learn it. Why arent most sk's running around with those sk-only CH
wands? Ive only found a couple of sk's who even use them, ever. Why
arent people wearing resist gear so that they die MUCH? Why dont they
learn about dot slots and pumice? Why dont they buy eqq shaped pumice or
camp golem wands? Why dont they know how to jboot cast spells? Why dont
they use low delay melee weaps on casters? Why do they just try to jam
their gate button as soon as PvP is initiated? Why dont they learn what
spells are useful and which arent, in PvP (wizards trying to use those
always resisted stun spells come to mind)? Why, why, why? Because they
havent bothered to learn about PvP, and just blame Verant, pk's, server
rules and anything else they dont directly control, in an effort to
escape the blame for their own shortcomings.
I learnt all of that stuff, and strive to learn all I can about PvP.
People who dont do that, lose, if they decide to come to a PvP server.
Gene
> ok for all u people who think this is a troll, stfu right now
>
> you turned it into a troll by flaming me
>
> im just saying the game is better on PvP servers
Are you really that stupid?
ryouseika
@optonline.net says...
> ok for all u people who think this is a troll, stfu right now
>
> you turned it into a troll by flaming me
>
> im just saying the game is better on PvP servers
That's right. It's everybody else's fault he's acting like a child! God,
you people disgust me.
--
Lelilali (what was that plonking noise?)
19th level shaman
14th level mage
8th level ranger
9th level shadowknight
Tarrew Marr
Rick Cortese
news:uihc7.39608$b_3.3...@news0.telusplanet.net...
> Couldn't have said it better Lokari - once again, you have a way with
words
> :)
>
> I play exclusively on the PvP servers. Started EQ a couple of years back
on
> Tunare I believe and liked it but always found it weird how races that
were
> supposed to hate one another would be seen grouped so I went to the PvP
> servers. Just helped me play the game how I liked it and have fun.
Things must have changed a lot since the last time I have played a PvP
server then. I'll give it another look tonight.
PvP in online games if pretty much 100% about cheap shots. Specific to EQ, I
was probably attacked 50 times, every single one of them was when I was
either zone/lagging or already fighting a mob.
I think most of the people that play PvP servers are confused. They play a
very narrow cheap shot game and consider that to be the buy all end all to
PvP. Effective does not equate to a good PvP game.
We need a new term to exclude this type of behavior from a real PvP game
like Counter Strike or Descent. Something like PvC that stands for "Player
vs Cheat Shot Artist".
Mutahq
Rick Cortese wrote:
>
> "Wylbur" <Wyl...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:uihc7.39608$b_3.3...@news0.telusplanet.net...
> > Couldn't have said it better Lokari - once again, you have a way with
> words
> > :)
> >
> > I play exclusively on the PvP servers. Started EQ a couple of years back
> on
> > Tunare I believe and liked it but always found it weird how races that
> were
> > supposed to hate one another would be seen grouped so I went to the PvP
> > servers. Just helped me play the game how I liked it and have fun.
>
> Things must have changed a lot since the last time I have played a PvP
> server then. I'll give it another look tonight.
They haven't.
> PvP in online games if pretty much 100% about cheap shots. Specific to EQ, I
> was probably attacked 50 times, every single one of them was when I was
> either zone/lagging or already fighting a mob.
Why is it someone elses fault that you are lagging, or you have a mob on
you? More to the point, why are you trying to exp in oasis in peak hour
(just as an example)?
If you are a melee with a mob on you, and you arent running, then I
would say you should be with a cleric. If you are a solo'er, I suggest
you find a quiet place to exp.
I'll help you out here, from the perspective of a pk. If I want to kill
just any person, I head to areas where people who are within range of me
(lvl50-58) are frequently known to go. I hit up Oasis, sro, KC, nek etc
etc, anywhere I know people who are in range will be (note: doesnt have
to be an exp zone...high levels often hang near bank/town/portal/zone
areas. However, I don't go wandering to zones like skyfire trying to
find people to kill...why? Because no one is there! Its a perfectly good
place to exp, is close to banking/vendors (next zone in OT)...but no one
uses it as it is a very boring zone. *I* exp there because I'm not
exactly welcome in your average seb group and no one hassles me at all
(maybe the occasional passer-through will run from OT to BW zone or the
somesuch). Even in the relative safety of my zone, I *still* don't let
security rest. I exp in quiet spots that aren't near or inbetween both
zone-ins and portals. Its second nature to have dot slots and defensive
pvp spells up ALL the time (shadowstep, gate, harmshield, deflux).
You see, its 99% YOUR OWN fault that you are attacked so much. Pk's
aren't stupid, if they want to find someone to kill they just go to the
obvious places and they'll find people like you, without resist gear,
dot slots, pvp spells memmed....sitting plain out in the open with 2
bubs hp. Perhaps you should think about learning even the most basic
defensive tactics before blaming others.
> I think most of the people that play PvP servers are confused.
Heh most people resemble you on PvP servers, perhaps even a little
stupider...as they not only blame everyone else for their own
shortcomings in PvP (verant, pk's,sony, gm's, server rules...even all
the nerds in the world get a bad name because of these people), but they
actually keep PLAYING on a pvp server.
> They play a
> very narrow cheap shot game and consider that to be the buy all end all to
> PvP. Effective does not equate to a good PvP game.
So why is it that YOU get attacked a lot and die, and I don't? I don't
put myself in that situation....I learnt the hard way that if you try to
solo outside paw at level 30 in US peak hour YOU WILL GET GANKED. Think
about it...
> We need a new term to exclude this type of behavior from a real PvP game
> like Counter Strike or Descent. Something like PvC that stands for "Player
> vs Cheat Shot Artist".
I thought it was "cheap shot"? Oh but now they are exploiters!
Please, just learn what the FUCK you are doing in PvP. And I am serious,
I am a known pk and even now that I'm not guilded in a pk guild I still
get frequently attacked when I do the necessities (by the majority of
people too...remember non-pk's outnumber pk's by an extraordinarily
large margin) of banking, buying spells/items/etc. I *do* have a
character on RZ who isn't a pk, and the only way I can see that you are
attacked that much is if you have NO knowledge about PvP in EQ.
Des Herriott
>
> thats my 2cp
>
Nah, you're not really worth it. Worth killfiling though.
--
Des Herriott
des.he...@oracle.com
- speaking for myself, not my employer
Dan Harmon
"Drake" <dr...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:tn3cepj...@corp.supernews.com...
He didn't ask for any advice about gating...not in the thread I was
responding to. Hell, he wasn't asking for ANY advice in the thread I was
responding to. And no, I'm not going to go out of my way to find a
particular post from an obvious troll.
Drake
Sorry Dan, I forgot the /sarcasm tags =P Tough crowd!
James
Mutahq wrote in message <3B725F22...@here.now>...
>Rick Cortese wrote:
>>
>> PvP in online games if pretty much 100% about cheap shots. Specific to
EQ, I
>> was probably attacked 50 times, every single one of them was when I was
>> either zone/lagging or already fighting a mob.
>
>Why is it someone elses fault that you are lagging, or you have a mob on
>you?
He hasn't claimed it IS someone else's fault he's lagging, or engaged.
His complaint is this: in a game about the fantasy era, it seems annoying
that not a single combat is initiated in "chivalrous" ways. It's all about
"I caught you with your pants down, prepare to die fast and hard!!!!" You
saying "Don't take your pants down, then" ignores that entirely. He objects
to the culture of the gacker, the very nature of PvP combat on the PvP
servers.
>If you are a melee with a mob on you, and you arent running, then I
>would say you should be with a cleric. If you are a solo'er, I suggest
>you find a quiet place to exp.
Note: if your server actually HAD people on it, you'd find that "finding
a quiet place to XP" is a little harder than it seems. Especially if you
choose to play one of the several classes that cannot solo effectively in a
gear-poor environment like a Zek.
>I'll help you out here, from the perspective of a pk. If I want to kill
>just any person,
And there's his problem - you want to kill JUST ANY PERSON, the more
helpless the better. The only motivation for your killing folks seems to be,
well, they're there. He wants MOTIVATED PvP, not some random gack-a-thon.
That's why I snicker when people talk about the Zeks being the "truer"
roleplaying environment - sure it is, if Norrath was populated entirely by
psychotics.
>However, I don't go wandering to zones like skyfire trying to
>find people to kill...why? Because no one is there!
Again, you must be on a Zek to say Skyfire is empty - it sure isn't on
my server. If nothing else it's farmed for the spell drops.
>You see, its 99% YOUR OWN fault that you are attacked so much. Pk's
>aren't stupid, if they want to find someone to kill they just go to the
>obvious places and they'll find people like you, without resist gear,
>dot slots, pvp spells memmed....
You MUST be a good PvPer if you can tell if someone has DoT slots and
PvP spells memmed just by looking at them. :-/
>> I think most of the people that play PvP servers are confused.
>
>Heh most people resemble you on PvP servers, perhaps even a little
>stupider...as they not only blame everyone else for their own
>shortcomings in PvP (verant, pk's,sony, gm's, server rules...even all
>the nerds in the world get a bad name because of these people), but they
>actually keep PLAYING on a pvp server.
It is their fault for staying there, very true. But this is what people
want from a PvP system, and when it isn't met they get angry: motivated PvP.
They want there to be a REASON beyond "because I could" for someone to
attack someone else. They furthermore do NOT want someone to be able to
evade PvP if a motivation beyond "because I could" exists - no lipping
someone, then not accepting the /duel. Blue servers have the first feature,
Zeks have the second. I get the idea most people want the Zeks to have both.
>> They play a
>> very narrow cheap shot game and consider that to be the buy all end all
to
>> PvP. Effective does not equate to a good PvP game.
>
>So why is it that YOU get attacked a lot and die, and I don't?
Um, how about because you spend every waking minute worrying about
getting killed? Because you play a solo class that can hide and gain XP
without anyone else? Because you don't mind never seeing any of the really
cool endgame stuff, but focus on gacking folks to gain a sense of
accomplishment?
I remember you once posted the guild list for some of the higher-level
members of DB. I remember looking at that list and thinking it looked like
the "original character I don't play anymore because they suck so hard"
lists top guilds have. Then I realized why you were so proud of it: because
on your server, doing what you like to do best (kill folks), those WERE the
endgame classes. Again, these "weak PvPers" have a different endgame desire
than you: they want to do the top encounters like blue servers do. They see
PvP as an aspect of the server, not the entire point. They should know
better by now. ;-)
>Please, just learn what the FUCK you are doing in PvP. And I am serious,
>I am a known pk and even now that I'm not guilded in a pk guild
Did DB finally get disbanded for good, or did you just move on?
James
Dan Harmon
Mutahq
James wrote:
>
> Mutahq wrote in message <3B725F22...@here.now>...
> >Rick Cortese wrote:
> >>
> >> PvP in online games if pretty much 100% about cheap shots. Specific to
> EQ, I
> >> was probably attacked 50 times, every single one of them was when I was
> >> either zone/lagging or already fighting a mob.
> >
> >Why is it someone elses fault that you are lagging, or you have a mob on
> >you?
>
> He hasn't claimed it IS someone else's fault he's lagging, or engaged.
> His complaint is this: in a game about the fantasy era, it seems annoying
> that not a single combat is initiated in "chivalrous" ways. It's all about
> "I caught you with your pants down, prepare to die fast and hard!!!!" You
> saying "Don't take your pants down, then" ignores that entirely. He objects
> to the culture of the gacker, the very nature of PvP combat on the PvP
> servers.
He should expect about as much roleplay as what you get in any other
area of eq. Roleplayers are a small, core bunch of people that generally
keep to themselves, and they also tend to not talk massive loads of shit
every time they die in PvP (unlike the majority of walking screenshots
that seem to inhabit the server).
> >If you are a melee with a mob on you, and you arent running, then I
> >would say you should be with a cleric. If you are a solo'er, I suggest
> >you find a quiet place to exp.
>
> Note: if your server actually HAD people on it, you'd find that "finding
> a quiet place to XP" is a little harder than it seems.
Whats your point?
> Especially if you
> choose to play one of the several classes that cannot solo effectively in a
> gear-poor environment like a Zek.
Once again, not my problem. I play for PvP so I make the decisions that
are advantageous to me. Not many people have it BOTH ways (a char thats
capable of experiencing lots of raiding and lots of pvp too).
> >I'll help you out here, from the perspective of a pk. If I want to kill
> >just any person,
>
> And there's his problem - you want to kill JUST ANY PERSON, the more
> helpless the better.
I just don't care. People seem to be hung up on the idea that a pk
actually gives a shit about them. Most don't, they enjoy the fight and
move on after they've done. I don't intentionally totally ruin someones
day unless they are asking for it, and yes you can be more of a pain
than just killing someone once.
> The only motivation for your killing folks seems to be,
> well, they're there.
True. Occasionally I have very good fights...however most of the time
its a "chase the level 56 naked enchanter around until they die" affair.
> He wants MOTIVATED PvP, not some random gack-a-thon.
You don't always get what you want...
> That's why I snicker when people talk about the Zeks being the "truer"
> roleplaying environment - sure it is, if Norrath was populated entirely by
> psychotics.
I snicker too :p
> >However, I don't go wandering to zones like skyfire trying to
> >find people to kill...why? Because no one is there!
>
> Again, you must be on a Zek to say Skyfire is empty - it sure isn't on
> my server. If nothing else it's farmed for the spell drops.
Shrug.
> >You see, its 99% YOUR OWN fault that you are attacked so much. Pk's
> >aren't stupid, if they want to find someone to kill they just go to the
> >obvious places and they'll find people like you, without resist gear,
> >dot slots, pvp spells memmed....
>
> You MUST be a good PvPer if you can tell if someone has DoT slots and
> PvP spells memmed just by looking at them. :-/
Well given that 99.9999% of people don't use dot slots and seem to not
know wtf to cast, I'm willing to risk putting him in that basket.
> >> I think most of the people that play PvP servers are confused.
> >
> >Heh most people resemble you on PvP servers, perhaps even a little
> >stupider...as they not only blame everyone else for their own
> >shortcomings in PvP (verant, pk's,sony, gm's, server rules...even all
> >the nerds in the world get a bad name because of these people), but they
> >actually keep PLAYING on a pvp server.
>
> It is their fault for staying there, very true. But this is what people
> want from a PvP system, and when it isn't met they get angry: motivated PvP.
> They want there to be a REASON beyond "because I could" for someone to
> attack someone else. They furthermore do NOT want someone to be able to
> evade PvP if a motivation beyond "because I could" exists - no lipping
> someone, then not accepting the /duel. Blue servers have the first feature,
> Zeks have the second. I get the idea most people want the Zeks to have both.
No most Zek people are too idealized by the blue experience. Put it this
way, you stroll out of a dungeon after owning hundreds of mobs for a few
hours without a single death and engage in some pvp against a solo
target...just looking at the surface the odds are 50/50 one of you will
come away the "winner" if you both see each other at the same time. Most
people just can't handle that.
In PvP, everyone wants to win, all the time. Some actually go out and
learn how to win, others just sit around blaming anything that they cant
change as the reason why PvP sucks. Its just the way PvP goes in eq...
> >> They play a
> >> very narrow cheap shot game and consider that to be the buy all end all
> to
> >> PvP. Effective does not equate to a good PvP game.
> >
> >So why is it that YOU get attacked a lot and die, and I don't?
>
> Um, how about because you spend every waking minute worrying about
> getting killed?
Correct. Well my whole routine has become second nature, so if all of a
sudden I get hit by an IC out of nowhere I'm not going to panic and shit
my pants and realize "omg im still wearing my uber droppable gear from
that uber raid earlier", try to bag it as fast as possible, try to run
but i get dotted, still panicking, stop and try to heal but a sow'd pet
starts hitting me, run some more, hp's going down, still panicking, fall
off a cliff, almost dead, now walking at a snails pace, try to gate but
die halfway through making the screenshot seem I'm some gimp who can't
even work out how to gate from someone.
It's a lot of little small things that you do when you get attacked that
matter...if I get tashed out of nowhere the first thing I do is cast a
mez potion (always got on hotkeyed in an inv slot, they cost 11pp...and
are invaluable when fighting an enchanter).
> Because you play a solo class that can hide and gain XP
> without anyone else?
Correct.
> Because you don't mind never seeing any of the really
> cool endgame stuff, but focus on gacking folks to gain a sense of
> accomplishment?
I don't find day-long raids interesting in the slightest, and any sense
of "uber" in a large encounter with a tough mob is not only dampened by
the fact that I can't land anything on it except my pet, but also that
with 30 people hanging around my frame rate dips into the single
figures...
> I remember you once posted the guild list for some of the higher-level
> members of DB. I remember looking at that list and thinking it looked like
> the "original character I don't play anymore because they suck so hard"
> lists top guilds have. Then I realized why you were so proud of it: because
> on your server, doing what you like to do best (kill folks), those WERE the
> endgame classes.
Yep. By far the best pk class is the wizard, followed by druids and
necro's. Any class can pk, or "pvp", but those 3 are the easiest.
Although now I almost always refuse to PvP vs rogues and *especially*
sk's. Rogues do insane amounts of damage at high levels, and that 900dmg
unresistable, 0.0 cast time HT those sk's have can ruin my day very
quick (esp. seeing as in my self-buffed in resist gear I've only got
1099hp + about 550hp for manaskin). A few swings of that sword and a
lifetap or two and I'm dead.
> Again, these "weak PvPers" have a different endgame desire
> than you: they want to do the top encounters like blue servers do. They see
> PvP as an aspect of the server, not the entire point. They should know
> better by now. ;-)
Hehe. I've got no problem with people getting off on blue server stuff,
however it doesn't interest me in the slightest so I play on the only
server that comes anywhere close to my needs. Its not like theres no
other server where you can raid all day and all night...
> >Please, just learn what the FUCK you are doing in PvP. And I am serious,
> >I am a known pk and even now that I'm not guilded in a pk guild
>
> Did DB finally get disbanded for good, or did you just move on?
The leader was banned for corpse camping someone who's corpse was on the
other side of the zone. When the leader of a guild is banned the guild
is disbanded. RZ has a somewhat non-standard ruleset for PvP. There are
lots of little things that one GM will say is wrong and others will say
theres nothing wrong with them. Which is why most of DB left for sullon
zek, where there are no rules.
Paul L
wrote:
>ok for all u people who think this is a troll, stfu right now
>
>you turned it into a troll by flaming me
>
>im just saying the game is better on PvP servers
>
In your opinion. And, I'm sorry, your opinion is worth to me exactly
what I paid for it ... Nothing.
Again, I find myself wondering why you felt the urge to insult the
majority of the EQ community. Surely, you have enough intelligence
and sufficient command of the English language to have understood that
the way you phrased your oringinal posts was hostile and insulting?
Anyone smart enough to boot up a computer could have predicted the
response to your comments ... indeed, you yourself said, (as I recall)
"Let the flames begin" or something to that effect.
Paul L.
James
Mutahq wrote in message <3B72EDF6...@here.now>...
>James wrote:
>> Mutahq wrote in message <3B725F22...@here.now>...
>> >
>> >would say you should be with a cleric. If you are a solo'er, I suggest
>> >you find a quiet place to exp.
>>
>> Note: if your server actually HAD people on it, you'd find that
"finding
>> a quiet place to XP" is a little harder than it seems.
>
>Whats your point?
Point is, if he and all the "blue trash" actually followed your advice,
then it wouldn't work - you'd all be fighting over the formerly-quiet spots.
>> Especially if you
>> choose to play one of the several classes that cannot solo effectively in
a
>> gear-poor environment like a Zek.
>
>Once again, not my problem. I play for PvP so I make the decisions that
>are advantageous to me. Not many people have it BOTH ways (a char thats
>capable of experiencing lots of raiding and lots of pvp too).
Goes to your advice. Doesn't help him being told "XP in out-of-the-way
places" if he plays one of the many classes that needs to group, as by
definition nobody is AT an "out-of-the-way" place.
>> He wants MOTIVATED PvP, not some random gack-a-thon.
>
>You don't always get what you want...
I doubt motivated PvP will ever be a codable thing.
>> It is their fault for staying there, very true. But this is what
people
>> want from a PvP system, and when it isn't met they get angry: motivated
PvP.
>> They want there to be a REASON beyond "because I could" for someone to
>> attack someone else. They furthermore do NOT want someone to be able to
>> evade PvP if a motivation beyond "because I could" exists - no lipping
>> someone, then not accepting the /duel. Blue servers have the first
feature,
>> Zeks have the second. I get the idea most people want the Zeks to have
both.
>
>No most Zek people are too idealized by the blue experience. Put it this
>way, you stroll out of a dungeon after owning hundreds of mobs for a few
>hours without a single death and engage in some pvp against a solo
>target...just looking at the surface the odds are 50/50 one of you will
>come away the "winner" if you both see each other at the same time. Most
>people just can't handle that.
I can see that. But that's not his complaint. He's not "engaging" in
PvP, it comes to him and gacks him seemingly "at random". You contend it
isn't random, his actions make him a victim. But a lot of the things you say
make someone a victim - no DoT slots, improper PvP spell load - just can't
be seen by the attacker until they attack. So what he contends is true - the
majority of these attacks are totally random, and THAT is what gets him
upset. That, and the losing, of course. ;-)
>> Because you don't mind never seeing any of the really
>> cool endgame stuff, but focus on gacking folks to gain a sense of
>> accomplishment?
>
>I don't find day-long raids interesting in the slightest, and any sense
>of "uber" in a large encounter with a tough mob is not only dampened by
>the fact that I can't land anything on it except my pet, but also that
>with 30 people hanging around my frame rate dips into the single
>figures...
Didn't say your goals are "bad" or wrong, but again: if they don't mesh
with his, your advice will be poor at best.
>Although now I almost always refuse to PvP vs rogues and *especially*
>sk's. Rogues do insane amounts of damage at high levels, and that 900dmg
>unresistable, 0.0 cast time HT those sk's have can ruin my day very
>quick (esp. seeing as in my self-buffed in resist gear I've only got
>1099hp + about 550hp for manaskin). A few swings of that sword and a
>lifetap or two and I'm dead.
Do you find that the PvP rogues bother using poisons when they set up an
attack, or do they just trust in double backstabs to drop you?
>> Again, these "weak PvPers" have a different endgame desire
>> than you: they want to do the top encounters like blue servers do. They
see
>> PvP as an aspect of the server, not the entire point. They should know
>> better by now. ;-)
>
>Hehe. I've got no problem with people getting off on blue server stuff,
>however it doesn't interest me in the slightest so I play on the only
>server that comes anywhere close to my needs. Its not like theres no
>other server where you can raid all day and all night...
And the big problem is, it only takes one person to make what he's doing
VERY hazardous. ;-)
>> Did DB finally get disbanded for good, or did you just move on?
>
>The leader was banned for corpse camping someone who's corpse was on the
>other side of the zone.
I saw that, but I thought you folks reformed as "Deebee" or some
likewise-goofy name. Did that fall flat?
>There are
>lots of little things that one GM will say is wrong and others will say
>theres nothing wrong with them.
That doesn't just happen on a PvP server. ;-)
>Which is why most of DB left for sullon zek, where there are no rules.
How are your points standaings on your druid?
James
Celaeno
>i posted it in an old thread so i figured id make it its own topic
>
>Funny coming from somone on E.Marr server...
Referring to the Goddess of Love angle, or the message board wars?
>havent heard 1 opinion of someone from the Zeks
Perhaps because you're not really looking for the Zek opinions, you're
just trying to convince everyone that PvP is sooo great...
There's one thing I've been wondering about: Why do so many immature
Zek players feel the need to post flame bait about bluebie servers
being inferior to PvP servers? Are you so insecure about the server
you chose to play on that you have to shout in everyone's ears that
you have the best server, just to convince yourself?
The good Zek players are the ones who don't feel a need to boast about
it being better than the blue servers.
Celaeno Duskwalker
Fier'dal druid of Erollisi Marr
Rick Cortese
news:3B725F22...@here.now...
>
>
> Rick Cortese wrote:
> >
> > "Wylbur" <Wyl...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:uihc7.39608$b_3.3...@news0.telusplanet.net...
> > > Couldn't have said it better Lokari - once again, you have a way with
> > words
> > > :)
> > >
> > > I play exclusively on the PvP servers. Started EQ a couple of years
back
> > on
> > > Tunare I believe and liked it but always found it weird how races that
> > were
> > > supposed to hate one another would be seen grouped so I went to the
PvP
> > > servers. Just helped me play the game how I liked it and have fun.
> >
> > Things must have changed a lot since the last time I have played a PvP
> > server then. I'll give it another look tonight.
>
> They haven't.
>
> > PvP in online games if pretty much 100% about cheap shots. Specific to
EQ, I
> > was probably attacked 50 times, every single one of them was when I was
> > either zone/lagging or already fighting a mob.
>
> Why is it someone elses fault that you are lagging, or you have a mob on
> you? More to the point, why are you trying to exp in oasis in peak hour
> (just as an example)?
No, zone lagging as when crossing over a narrow zone line, say Kilthor to
High Pass. Your avatar appears slightly before your screen updates and by
the time you get updated, you are rooted, DOT'd, and have 2-3 idjits beating
on you.
Clearly exploiting the technical short commings of the game in my book. If
it only happened once, that would be to many. It is SOP for MMO PvP, not
just restricted to EQ. One of those "Eat shit, a million flies can't be
wrong" kind of things. It allows a technically and specifically inferior
player to cheap shot another player he couldn't beat otherwise. I can take a
loss, I do it all the time, I am just not real big about exploits.
I don't think it could be done effectively in Oasis since it has a wider
zone boundry.
>
> If you are a melee with a mob on you, and you arent running, then I
> would say you should be with a cleric. If you are a solo'er, I suggest
> you find a quiet place to exp.
There was no such thing on the solo PvP server. Once again, idjits would PL
a character up to 5, twink the snot out of them, then were attacking same
race level 1s in the newbie area. I think when their faction got low enough,
they would just delete that character and twink a new one.
After advancing out of the newbie areas, I remember running into a gnome
wizard who was killing everyone that wasn't short. I got a pass because I
was a halfling druid. That was pretty much the level of role playing and how
much justification was considered enough to kill someone. I thought it was a
bit on the low side.
There is a reason VI made the no rules server with the rule no combat below
level 5. It was because of all the knuckleheads that were slaughtering new
players at their spawn points or in their newbie areas.
Now I am sure all the PvP servers have exactly the same knuckleheads, just
that they can't kill rookies at their spawn point. For me the question
becomes: Are they no longer knuckleheads because gme mechanics won't let
them kill newbies or are they the same idiots?
>
> I'll help you out here, from the perspective of a pk.
Just a different def then mine. You are more PvP then PK, not the same
thing. PvP'er kills people that need killing.
> You see, its 99% YOUR OWN fault that you are attacked so much.
Sort of. I could probably get to at least level 9 never leaving Riverdale. I
think the
Piranha alone would take me that far. I kind of wanted to go find some
action. I'm also pretty good at the game. I mean camouflage comes at level 5
so I wouldn't have to ever get attacked. That wasn't why I was playing the
PvP server though.
> Plenty of Pk's
> aren't stupid, if they want to find someone to kill they just go to the
> obvious places and they'll find people like you, without resist gear,
> dot slots, pvp spells memmed....sitting plain out in the open with 2
> bubs hp. Perhaps you should think about learning even the most basic
> defensive tactics before blaming others.
I take back what I said, you are a typical PK. See this is my point, you are
not concious about the nature of your playstyle. You confuse attacking
someone with 2 bubbles of health as PvP!
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is cheap shot artist.
You really don't have a clue, PvP'ers are NOT like you. I mean I think my
son and his best friend were ranked very high in Counter Strike, like top
200 in the world. They see this cheapshot bullshit that goes on in MMOs and
just get a pained expression on their faces.
>
> > I think most of the people that play PvP servers are confused.
>
> Heh most people resemble you on PvP servers, perhaps even a little
> stupider...as they not only blame everyone else for their own
Kid, I have just explained to you the way of the world. There is no one so
stupid as someone who does not know himself. I can only pity you.
> Please, just learn what the FUCK you are doing in PvP. And I am serious,
> I am a known pk and even now that I'm not guilded in a pk guild I still
If I don't know you, you aren't shit.
Mutahq
James wrote:
>
> >> Note: if your server actually HAD people on it, you'd find that
> "finding
> >> a quiet place to XP" is a little harder than it seems.
> >
> >Whats your point?
>
> Point is, if he and all the "blue trash" actually followed your advice,
> then it wouldn't work - you'd all be fighting over the formerly-quiet spots.
It's not going to get to that, most people are too stupid to figure out
how to handle their own situation in PvP. I was offering the advice
because theres a lot of nice spots to exp and the such that you won't
get ganked at.
> >> Especially if you
> >> choose to play one of the several classes that cannot solo effectively in
> a
> >> gear-poor environment like a Zek.
> >
> >Once again, not my problem. I play for PvP so I make the decisions that
> >are advantageous to me. Not many people have it BOTH ways (a char thats
> >capable of experiencing lots of raiding and lots of pvp too).
>
> Goes to your advice. Doesn't help him being told "XP in out-of-the-way
> places" if he plays one of the many classes that needs to group, as by
> definition nobody is AT an "out-of-the-way" place.
It's still possible to exp in a not-so-risky situation and still group.
Bit harder than a solo'er thats all. Remember I do have a non-pk char I
play occasionally and I am so rarely attacked on that char its not funny
(its a class that I usually group with as well).
> >> He wants MOTIVATED PvP, not some random gack-a-thon.
> >
> >You don't always get what you want...
>
> I doubt motivated PvP will ever be a codable thing.
Agree.
> >No most Zek people are too idealized by the blue experience. Put it this
> >way, you stroll out of a dungeon after owning hundreds of mobs for a few
> >hours without a single death and engage in some pvp against a solo
> >target...just looking at the surface the odds are 50/50 one of you will
> >come away the "winner" if you both see each other at the same time. Most
> >people just can't handle that.
>
> I can see that. But that's not his complaint. He's not "engaging" in
> PvP, it comes to him and gacks him seemingly "at random". You contend it
> isn't random, his actions make him a victim. But a lot of the things you say
> make someone a victim - no DoT slots, improper PvP spell load - just can't
> be seen by the attacker until they attack. So what he contends is true - the
> majority of these attacks are totally random, and THAT is what gets him
> upset. That, and the losing, of course. ;-)
But complaining about that doesn't help his situation, yet my advice
will.
> >> Because you don't mind never seeing any of the really
> >> cool endgame stuff, but focus on gacking folks to gain a sense of
> >> accomplishment?
> >
> >I don't find day-long raids interesting in the slightest, and any sense
> >of "uber" in a large encounter with a tough mob is not only dampened by
> >the fact that I can't land anything on it except my pet, but also that
> >with 30 people hanging around my frame rate dips into the single
> >figures...
>
> Didn't say your goals are "bad" or wrong, but again: if they don't mesh
> with his, your advice will be poor at best.
Well if his goal is to die less, then I'm telling him how to do that :p
> >Although now I almost always refuse to PvP vs rogues and *especially*
> >sk's. Rogues do insane amounts of damage at high levels, and that 900dmg
> >unresistable, 0.0 cast time HT those sk's have can ruin my day very
> >quick (esp. seeing as in my self-buffed in resist gear I've only got
> >1099hp + about 550hp for manaskin). A few swings of that sword and a
> >lifetap or two and I'm dead.
>
> Do you find that the PvP rogues bother using poisons when they set up an
> attack, or do they just trust in double backstabs to drop you?
Very rarely. Over 130pr self-buffed is a bitch to get any poison to
stick to.
I was hanging with a friend on mine who was on his friends 58 rogue, he
backstabs for 650, and higher rogues can get much higher dmg than that.
I don't have THAT much hp, so I tend not to fight them.
> >> Again, these "weak PvPers" have a different endgame desire
> >> than you: they want to do the top encounters like blue servers do. They
> see
> >> PvP as an aspect of the server, not the entire point. They should know
> >> better by now. ;-)
> >
> >Hehe. I've got no problem with people getting off on blue server stuff,
> >however it doesn't interest me in the slightest so I play on the only
> >server that comes anywhere close to my needs. Its not like theres no
> >other server where you can raid all day and all night...
>
> And the big problem is, it only takes one person to make what he's doing
> VERY hazardous. ;-)
Thats true. I'm not offering a sure fire way to not die at all. I'm just
offering the way I keep myself safe. And for a pk who has died 5 times
in the last ooh...6 months, I think my advice is quite valid.
> >> Did DB finally get disbanded for good, or did you just move on?
> >
> >The leader was banned for corpse camping someone who's corpse was on the
> >other side of the zone.
>
> I saw that, but I thought you folks reformed as "Deebee" or some
> likewise-goofy name. Did that fall flat?
Yep most went to SZ, still pissed about our leader's 57wiz being banned
for ridiculous rule changes.
> >There are
> >lots of little things that one GM will say is wrong and others will say
> >theres nothing wrong with them.
>
> That doesn't just happen on a PvP server. ;-)
I figure that :p
> >Which is why most of DB left for sullon zek, where there are no rules.
>
> How are your points standaings on your druid?
Not good. I exp'd mostly, as SZ is Levelquest. A couple of days after
the points standings came out my comp broke and I didn't get it fixed
until a few days ago. Lost the urge to play SZ for some reason, theres
no item loot and theres also a bunch of lvl50+ people now.
Mutahq
Rick Cortese wrote:
>
> > They haven't.
> >
> > > PvP in online games if pretty much 100% about cheap shots. Specific to
> EQ, I
> > > was probably attacked 50 times, every single one of them was when I was
> > > either zone/lagging or already fighting a mob.
> >
> > Why is it someone elses fault that you are lagging, or you have a mob on
> > you? More to the point, why are you trying to exp in oasis in peak hour
> > (just as an example)?
>
> No, zone lagging as when crossing over a narrow zone line, say Kilthor to
> High Pass. Your avatar appears slightly before your screen updates and by
> the time you get updated, you are rooted, DOT'd, and have 2-3 idjits beating
> on you.
>
> Clearly exploiting the technical short commings of the game in my book. If
> it only happened once, that would be to many. It is SOP for MMO PvP, not
> just restricted to EQ. One of those "Eat shit, a million flies can't be
> wrong" kind of things. It allows a technically and specifically inferior
> player to cheap shot another player he couldn't beat otherwise. I can take a
> loss, I do it all the time, I am just not real big about exploits.
>
> I don't think it could be done effectively in Oasis since it has a wider
> zone boundry.
Ironically, I zone so slow it's not funny. I often find myself cornered
by a bunch of naked gimps on a zoneline, but then, theres nothing I can
do about it so I just pull the plug if I can't outzone them.
> > If you are a melee with a mob on you, and you arent running, then I
> > would say you should be with a cleric. If you are a solo'er, I suggest
> > you find a quiet place to exp.
>
> There was no such thing on the solo PvP server. Once again, idjits would PL
> a character up to 5, twink the snot out of them, then were attacking same
> race level 1s in the newbie area. I think when their faction got low enough,
> they would just delete that character and twink a new one.
There are no faction hits unless you kill a char in their home city.
Also, quite a lot of those level 5 pk's were actually blue server
players who are bored and run around killing newbies for kicks. It's
kinda obvious when you see a level 5 warrior running around called
"Fenninroisdown" killing people in gfay.
> After advancing out of the newbie areas, I remember running into a gnome
> wizard who was killing everyone that wasn't short. I got a pass because I
> was a halfling druid. That was pretty much the level of role playing and how
> much justification was considered enough to kill someone. I thought it was a
> bit on the low side.
There is no justification needed for any combat. Remember that.
> There is a reason VI made the no rules server with the rule no combat below
> level 5. It was because of all the knuckleheads that were slaughtering new
> players at their spawn points or in their newbie areas.
I agree. The problem of delevelled level 5 pk's could be passed by
levelling in a non-peak hour time, I have done that with every char I
have made.
> Now I am sure all the PvP servers have exactly the same knuckleheads, just
> that they can't kill rookies at their spawn point. For me the question
> becomes: Are they no longer knuckleheads because gme mechanics won't let
> them kill newbies or are they the same idiots?
Who knows, most are probably sitting on Fennin Ro or somesuch killing
dain for the 25th time.
> > I'll help you out here, from the perspective of a pk.
>
> Just a different def then mine. You are more PvP then PK, not the same
> thing. PvP'er kills people that need killing.
But I feel everyone needs killing :p
> > You see, its 99% YOUR OWN fault that you are attacked so much.
>
> Sort of. I could probably get to at least level 9 never leaving Riverdale. I
> think the
> Piranha alone would take me that far. I kind of wanted to go find some
> action. I'm also pretty good at the game. I mean camouflage comes at level 5
> so I wouldn't have to ever get attacked. That wasn't why I was playing the
> PvP server though.
Invis/camo makes you invisible to everyone except those with see-invis
up. And I don't think I know a pk who doesn't keep it up all the time.
> > Plenty of Pk's
> > aren't stupid, if they want to find someone to kill they just go to the
> > obvious places and they'll find people like you, without resist gear,
> > dot slots, pvp spells memmed....sitting plain out in the open with 2
> > bubs hp. Perhaps you should think about learning even the most basic
> > defensive tactics before blaming others.
>
> I take back what I said, you are a typical PK. See this is my point, you are
> not concious about the nature of your playstyle. You confuse attacking
> someone with 2 bubbles of health as PvP!
It is PvP. I don't deliberatly search for people in vulnerable
situations, I just deliberatly search for *people to kill*. Anyone in
range.
> NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is cheap shot artist.
Not really.
> You really don't have a clue, PvP'ers are NOT like you. I mean I think my
> son and his best friend were ranked very high in Counter Strike, like top
> 200 in the world. They see this cheapshot bullshit that goes on in MMOs and
> just get a pained expression on their faces.
Should I care?
> > > I think most of the people that play PvP servers are confused.
> >
> > Heh most people resemble you on PvP servers, perhaps even a little
> > stupider...as they not only blame everyone else for their own
>
> Kid, I have just explained to you the way of the world. There is no one so
> stupid as someone who does not know himself. I can only pity you.
Sorry, guilt-trips dont work :p
> > Please, just learn what the FUCK you are doing in PvP. And I am serious,
> > I am a known pk and even now that I'm not guilded in a pk guild I still
>
> If I don't know you, you aren't shit.
Perhaps if you knew how to level on a PvP server you would know me :p
Rick Cortese
>
>
> Rick Cortese wrote:
> > There was no such thing on the solo PvP server. Once again, idjits would
PL
> > a character up to 5, twink the snot out of them, then were attacking
same
> > race level 1s in the newbie area. I think when their faction got low
enough,
> > they would just delete that character and twink a new one.
>
> There are no faction hits unless you kill a char in their home city.
>
> Also, quite a lot of those level 5 pk's were actually blue server
> players who are bored and run around killing newbies for kicks. It's
> kinda obvious when you see a level 5 warrior running around called
> "Fenninroisdown" killing people in gfay.
Actually it is level 6 now since they seem to have added the no attack under
level 5 to the server since the last time I played there.
Current news as of last night and some this morning. I think since this is
an EQ newsgroup people won't mind me reporting the "EQ PvP Experience".
That didn't stop idiots from trying anyway. They had a high level character
casting harmony on the guards and were training undead to pick up people
that were hidden/camou.
As far as being attacked, went from misty thicket to Surefall to Blackburrow
to Qeynos w/o incident. I pretty much only get attacked when I am looking
for it.
That being said, four level 6 halfling social retards were camping Misty
Thicket [helc, belc, ...]. They had a lap dog giving them major buffs
completely beyond their level. Str, hitpoints, damage shields, see invis,
etc.
Pretty much killing everyone low on life fighting mobs. They were evey using
an exploit, removing a HP ring when they got in trouble to prevent people
from getting a kill on them and looting rights. They bragged about this in
/shout. Heh, lucky I am not a GM or they wouldn't be able to see the login
server even with see invisible up. Corpse camping etcetera everything normal
people think is lame.
Their buff monkey finally took off, I waited for about 20 minutes until I
was sure their buffs ran out, then camou'd and started hunting them. Sure as
shit, soon as I put a spell on one he ran to the guards screaming like a
little girl. Sometimes I really love doing PvP but it is almost impossible
to get someone to PvP when they run like this. Most of the people I have
seen claiming they were PvP were really timid like this when it came right
down to it.
This is not PvP. If it was about PvP, he would have fought, it is cheapshot.
There were maybe 10 players there bitching about these morons, me hunting
them. One player complained that had followed him for hours attacking
because he had refused to join their guild: Real mature crowd. I make this:
Out of 15 players<buff monkey left> there were 4 assholes enjoying
themselves exploiting game mechanics, me<arguably an asshole in my own
right> having a decent time hunting them, and 10 disatisfied customers who
think the PvP servers really suck goat balls. I think they have a point.
Now understand I do like a good fight against a worthy opponent. These
morons could provide neither. See? That is what PvP is about, good fight,
good opponet. There is very little PvP that takes place in any MMO.
Let me give you a little analogy. Say Mike Tyson is still heavyweight
champion and he is in a dentist chair having root canal work done. Now I
walk up behind him and smack him with a baseball bat. Does that constitute
PvP and mean I am now the Heavyweight Champion? No! Of course not. It has
nothing to do with PvP or a contest, it is just a cheapshot.
So I am down on pp anyway, I go into town and jump into the water to pick
off a few piranha for some easy loot. Sure enough someone has already camped
them, so I start swiming away and I get hit from behind with some low level
spell from "Express" another moron. I have kind of a cool head, I figure
since he had been fighting the piranha and hit me with a low level spell, he
must be oom. So I KS/blast the two piranah, pick up some of the fat loot
type teeth while he sits around watching me do it because he wasted his mana
on me. Don't tell me cheapshot artist are smart, they are compulsive.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face is not a smart move.
Actually I kind of liked the solitude of the PvP server. The biggest zone I
was in, NK I think, only had 12 other people. Blackburrow had 2 others,
Queynos Aqueducts had 0.0 if you don't count me.
Annoying number of abandoned corpses everywhere. Same proportion of beggers
"ne1 have a fine steel wepon they can give me?", "ne1 want to buff me?", ad
nauseum. The good thing about it is with only 3 people in a zone, one of
them being me, I only have to put 2 people on ignore to enjoy myself.
> > If I don't know you, you aren't shit.
>
> Perhaps if you knew how to level on a PvP server you would know me :p
If you knew how to level in real life I may.
As it is, leveling in this game means nothing. I even picked up another
level this morning just screwing around while taking a look at conditions.
The game is just a silly diversion, something I do with my spare time.
Trying to imply there is more significance to it then that is just being
shallow.
Andy Wendel
wrote:
>I would like to hear opinions of people who play on PvP...
>
As someone who left UO after 3.5 years of playing, either solely on
the PvP side of the game, or when the game was a pure PvP environment,
I am glad that I DON'T play on the PvP servers. Grief play, while not
as prevelant in EQ as it was in UO, is still an issue on the blue
servers. And from what I have seen of the PvP servers, it is far
worse there.
True, not everyone gets their rocks off ganking a new character. Just
75% or so of the population. I guess that makes them feel truly
superior. PvP at its' finest.
As possibly one of the top 20 of all time PK's on UO, it isn't fear,
or lack of challange that keeps me away from PvP servers. It is
boredom. All the kewl d00d l33t's, or Ubers, as they are called in
this game, are boring. Same smack talk, because they were fortunate
to be there first. How many times do you think someone can stand to
see
ha ha, I roxxered your newb ass...
How many times can you stand to say it?
Simond
BONDA170 <bond...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010808161517...@mb-mm.aol.com...
<snip>
> Why dont you play on Rallos? Too scared of losing your Ph4t L3wt?
Because item loot _discourages_ PvP, as most people tend to bag and
run/gate/whatever first rather than fight back.
--
Simond
AKA
Itzena Alhazared, Eru SK, Ronin, Vallon Zek.
A bunch of other characters on VZ as well.
Simond
Mutahq <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
<snip>
Judging by what you've posted, I assume you're on Rallos Zek.
Am I right?
On VZ, people who make a habit out of zone-line gankage tend to have
short careers as it is a petitionable offence...well, at least some of
the time, anyway - depending on which GM or Guide a petition gets
through to.
Simond
Darren Chriest <dchriest!NOSPAM!@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B71BD4E...@home.com...
> Menotti wrote:
>
> <A bunch of bigotted, moronic crap>
>
> I'm sorry... but I am of the opinion that I have experienced far more
> of EQ than the average non-"bluebie". I would guess (based on my own
> personal experiences on PvP servers) that the better, more challenging
> zones and NPCs such as VP, DN, SG, Kael Velks, ToV, Sky, Hate, Fear,
> Naggy, Vox, VS, etc, etc.. are rarely utilized because of the inherent
> uncooperative and untrusting nature of PvP servers.
And I'm sorry, but what colour is the sky in your world?
About the only zones, AJAIK, that haven't been seriously tried on VZ are
PoM & Sleeper's Tomb.
Mutahq
Rick Cortese wrote:
>
> "Mutahq" <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> news:3B73684E...@here.now...
> >
> >
> > Rick Cortese wrote:
> > > There was no such thing on the solo PvP server. Once again, idjits would
> PL
> > > a character up to 5, twink the snot out of them, then were attacking
> same
> > > race level 1s in the newbie area. I think when their faction got low
> enough,
> > > they would just delete that character and twink a new one.
> >
> > There are no faction hits unless you kill a char in their home city.
> >
> > Also, quite a lot of those level 5 pk's were actually blue server
> > players who are bored and run around killing newbies for kicks. It's
> > kinda obvious when you see a level 5 warrior running around called
> > "Fenninroisdown" killing people in gfay.
>
> Actually it is level 6 now since they seem to have added the no attack under
> level 5 to the server since the last time I played there.
Thats been the situation for quite some months now.
> Current news as of last night and some this morning. I think since this is
> an EQ newsgroup people won't mind me reporting the "EQ PvP Experience".
"an" eq pvp experience...
> That didn't stop idiots from trying anyway. They had a high level character
> casting harmony on the guards and were training undead to pick up people
> that were hidden/camou.
What were you still doing there?
> As far as being attacked, went from misty thicket to Surefall to Blackburrow
> to Qeynos w/o incident. I pretty much only get attacked when I am looking
> for it.
Typical of most of the server away from blatantly obvious areas that a
pk would pick.
> That being said, four level 6 halfling social retards were camping Misty
> Thicket [helc, belc, ...]. They had a lap dog giving them major buffs
> completely beyond their level. Str, hitpoints, damage shields, see invis,
> etc.
I would guess they were level 10, doesnt make sense to have a level 6 pk
char.
> Pretty much killing everyone low on life fighting mobs. They were evey using
> an exploit, removing a HP ring when they got in trouble to prevent people
> from getting a kill on them and looting rights.
Thats a big problem at low levels, I agree. However its not like you
have been denied the right to do it too.
As for it being an "exploit", no. They can't code it so that damage you
don't do gives you looting rights, especially seeing as how now only the
person who gets the slain message can loot the corpse. If 5 people are
attacking someone and they pull a hp ring, who gets to loot?
> They bragged about this in
> /shout. Heh, lucky I am not a GM or they wouldn't be able to see the login
> server even with see invisible up. Corpse camping etcetera everything normal
> people think is lame.
Still wondering why you are hanging around...
> Their buff monkey finally took off, I waited for about 20 minutes until I
> was sure their buffs ran out, then camou'd and started hunting them.
Most high level buffs last longer than 20 minutes, especially the hp
buffs.
> Sure as
> shit, soon as I put a spell on one he ran to the guards screaming like a
> little girl. Sometimes I really love doing PvP but it is almost impossible
> to get someone to PvP when they run like this.
You aren't good enough. I know people who haven't levelled past 16 and
are decked out with full sets of bd jewellery and the such, because they
can do what you can't - kill twinks.
Don't take it personally, but most people really don't have what it
takes to PvP and win almost all the time. Just like you'll find that one
chanter who is *perfect* at what they do in PvE, yet you'll find others
who spend their days getting their group killed repeatedly and bitching
about how enchanters are fucked etc etc.
> Most of the people I have
> seen claiming they were PvP were really timid like this when it came right
> down to it.
Thats very correct. Make sure you KILL THEM. Everyone will die in PvP at
some point, *everyone*....remember that.
> This is not PvP.
Player vs Player? Sounds like it to me.
> If it was about PvP, he would have fought, it is cheapshot.
There's no requirement the person has to fight back.
> There were maybe 10 players there bitching about these morons, me hunting
> them. One player complained that had followed him for hours attacking
> because he had refused to join their guild: Real mature crowd. I make this:
> Out of 15 players<buff monkey left> there were 4 assholes enjoying
> themselves exploiting game mechanics, me<arguably an asshole in my own
> right> having a decent time hunting them, and 10 disatisfied customers who
> think the PvP servers really suck goat balls. I think they have a point.
So you were having a "decent time"? What was all the bitching for then?
:p
And if those people don't like it they can go back to E'ci....
> Now understand I do like a good fight against a worthy opponent. These
> morons could provide neither. See? That is what PvP is about, good fight,
> good opponet. There is very little PvP that takes place in any MMO.
You don't even know what PvP means...how could you identify it?
PvP = Player vs Player. Says nothing about whether the person is running
or whatnot.
I do enjoy good fights against people who know wtf they are doing, but
after years on RZ I've realized most people just don't know what the
fuck they are doing.
> Let me give you a little analogy. Say Mike Tyson is still heavyweight
> champion and he is in a dentist chair having root canal work done. Now I
> walk up behind him and smack him with a baseball bat. Does that constitute
> PvP and mean I am now the Heavyweight Champion? No! Of course not. It has
> nothing to do with PvP or a contest, it is just a cheapshot.
Of course its a cheapshot. The only reason people would claim otherwise
is to get you all annoyed. Personally I could care less about gloating
unless the person is bugging me. If I come across someone on low hp then
of course I'm going to kill them, if I see them while they are on low
health then they are just extremely unlucky or they are medding in the
wrong spot. Some people will just take it on the chin and go on with
their eq day, others will just bitch and moan until I just eventually
have to go "owned~" and then put them on /ignore.
> So I am down on pp anyway, I go into town and jump into the water to pick
> off a few piranha for some easy loot. Sure enough someone has already camped
> them, so I start swiming away and I get hit from behind with some low level
> spell from "Express" another moron. I have kind of a cool head, I figure
> since he had been fighting the piranha and hit me with a low level spell, he
> must be oom. So I KS/blast the two piranah, pick up some of the fat loot
> type teeth while he sits around watching me do it because he wasted his mana
> on me. Don't tell me cheapshot artist are smart, they are compulsive.
> Cutting off your nose to spite your face is not a smart move.
But who says he actually cared? You seem to be under the impression that
every PvP incident should be the centre of everyones world. PvP doesn't
just mean full blown combat where both want to kill each other. I often
bug naked people because they don't wear any gear, if that wizzie wants
to wear full carmine and nothing droppable thats fine, I'll just leave
him to heal 800hp at sitting down regen rates :p
> Actually I kind of liked the solitude of the PvP server. The biggest zone I
> was in, NK I think, only had 12 other people. Blackburrow had 2 others,
> Queynos Aqueducts had 0.0 if you don't count me.
It's good isn't it? I would hate to think what its like on one of those
servers where they get along the lines of 2200+ people in peak times....
> Annoying number of abandoned corpses everywhere. Same proportion of beggers
> "ne1 have a fine steel wepon they can give me?", "ne1 want to buff me?", ad
> nauseum. The good thing about it is with only 3 people in a zone, one of
> them being me, I only have to put 2 people on ignore to enjoy myself.
hehe yeah, there are quite a few beggars at banks and the
such....although they don't go far from banks/newbie zones.
> > Perhaps if you knew how to level on a PvP server you would know me :p
>
> If you knew how to level in real life I may.
Now now, remember this is the net. Real life is pretty much irrelevant.
> As it is, leveling in this game means nothing.
PvP changes a LOT with levels.
> I even picked up another
> level this morning just screwing around while taking a look at conditions.
Yeah I picked up 54 after only a mere week of levelling every day :(
> The game is just a silly diversion, something I do with my spare time.
You take it so seriously though.
> Trying to imply there is more significance to it then that is just being
> shallow.
You just wrote like 2 pages on how much PvP sucks on RZ, how it isn't
fair, how there are exploiters etc etc, but the game isn't significant?
Mutahq
Simond wrote:
>
> Mutahq <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> news:3B725F22...@here.now...
>
> <snip>
>
> Judging by what you've posted, I assume you're on Rallos Zek.
> Am I right?
Correct.
> On VZ, people who make a habit out of zone-line gankage tend to have
> short careers as it is a petitionable offence...well, at least some of
> the time, anyway - depending on which GM or Guide a petition gets
> through to.
The ruleset became quite ridiculous with anti-harrassment stuff, things
like you couldn't follow someone through a zone line and keep chasing
them on the other side and the such.
See I most definetly have been exploited more than most people. It got
to the point where it became normal for me to expect to get 3 draughts
incoming when I get ported into nektulos. I zone pretty slow so of
course I get fucked up at zonelines, no rules ever stopped that from
happening. Spamming with wands? Happens all the time.
What I got pissed about is the fact that the same people who bleat about
it being so unfair are the same who use it on me, because im a "pk" its
ok, obviously.
BONDA170
Wrote:
>BONDA170 <bond...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20010808161517...@mb-mm.aol.com...
><snip>
>> Why dont you play on Rallos? Too scared of losing your Ph4t L3wt?
>
>Because item loot _discourages_ PvP, as most people tend to bag and
>run/gate/whatever first rather than fight back.
True, but then you just have to counter that with snare/root and a weapon with
low delay to intterupt that gate.
Mutahq
Simond wrote:
>
> Darren Chriest <dchriest!NOSPAM!@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3B71BD4E...@home.com...
> > Menotti wrote:
> >
> > <A bunch of bigotted, moronic crap>
> >
> > I'm sorry... but I am of the opinion that I have experienced far more
> > of EQ than the average non-"bluebie". I would guess (based on my own
> > personal experiences on PvP servers) that the better, more challenging
> > zones and NPCs such as VP, DN, SG, Kael Velks, ToV, Sky, Hate, Fear,
> > Naggy, Vox, VS, etc, etc.. are rarely utilized because of the inherent
> > uncooperative and untrusting nature of PvP servers.
>
> And I'm sorry, but what colour is the sky in your world?
> About the only zones, AJAIK, that haven't been seriously tried on VZ are
> PoM & Sleeper's Tomb.
That's such a common misconception about PvP servers. Only thing that
hasn't been tried on RZ (last time I heard anyway) is sleepers.
Rick Cortese
>
>
> Rick Cortese wrote:
<snip>
> > Pretty much killing everyone low on life fighting mobs. They were evey
using
> > an exploit, removing a HP ring when they got in trouble to prevent
people
> > from getting a kill on them and looting rights.
>
> Thats a big problem at low levels, I agree. However its not like you
> have been denied the right to do it too.
>
> As for it being an "exploit", no. They can't code it so that damage you
> don't do gives you looting rights, especially seeing as how now only the
> person who gets the slain message can loot the corpse. If 5 people are
> attacking someone and they pull a hp ring, who gets to loot?
Thank you for saying this. I believe there is a kind of Social Darwinism
that goes on at an accelerated pace in these games. The only people that
stay on a server or in a game like that are the completely amoral when it
comes to any sense of fair play.
You know how I found my former PvP server? It had been so long that I had
forgotten. I just did "Sort by number of people on line" and sure enough, it
was at the top of the list.
Not saying you are doing anything illegal, quite the contrary, just using
these as an analogy. I'll use two examples.
While back MABLA<Man Boy Love Association?> was having their meetings in the
same library my computer user group met. Quite a bit of controversy, I think
it was one of the user group members that ratted them out. One of their
representatives did an interview with the local TV station explaing how
young boys love sex and they were doing them a favor by "making love" to
them. w/o a clue.
One of the guys I worked with was cheating on his pregnant wife. Heard this
from her best friend and verified the story with him. His girlfriend called
up and asked him to come over. His wife had picked up the phone and while he
was taking a shower/changing his clothes, she was begging him not to go. He
responded "I deserve to go because you got fat". w/o a clue. He was kind of
proud he said it. He used to ask out every girl I was dating too. His
rationale was ~"If she'll go out with you that means I stand a chance". His
wife divorced his sorry ass so the story does have a happy ending.
You see, clueless behavior like this and as you illustrated so well here is
the major problems with the PvP servers. No one there wants to PvP, no one
there wants anything but a rigged game. The ones that remain and posture as
PvPers are really just cheap shot artist. That 85%<could have changed,
number release by VI when subscriptions were still ~240k> opt for PvP- when
PvP+ nothing but a rigged game, well...
>
> > They bragged about this in
> > /shout. Heh, lucky I am not a GM or they wouldn't be able to see the
login
> > server even with see invisible up. Corpse camping etcetera everything
normal
> > people think is lame.
>
> Still wondering why you are hanging around...
I used to do these same type reports for Diablo and UO.
>
> > Their buff monkey finally took off, I waited for about 20 minutes until
I
> > was sure their buffs ran out, then camou'd and started hunting them.
>
> Most high level buffs last longer than 20 minutes, especially the hp
> buffs.
I lose track of time when I am hunting. Really can't tell if it was 5
minutes or 50, 20 minutes seemed like a reasonable estimate.
>
> > Sure as
> > shit, soon as I put a spell on one he ran to the guards screaming like a
> > little girl. Sometimes I really love doing PvP but it is almost
impossible
> > to get someone to PvP when they run like this.
>
> You aren't good enough. I know people who haven't levelled past 16 and
> are decked out with full sets of bd jewellery and the such, because they
> can do what you can't - kill twinks.
>
> Don't take it personally, but most people really don't have what it
> takes to PvP and win almost all the time. Just like you'll find that one
> chanter who is *perfect* at what they do in PvE, yet you'll find others
> who spend their days getting their group killed repeatedly and bitching
> about how enchanters are fucked etc etc.
Don't take this personally then either. You couldn't wash my jock. First all
star team I made was 5th grade, lettered all four years in varsity wrestling
in colleges and set the school record for wins in a season. Only took 2nd in
the regional Olympic trials so I do have my limits.
I don't know what it is that makes some people equate sitting at a keyboard
with having "The Right Stuff".
The thing is, I and everyone else knows exactly what it takes to play on a
PvP server. You have to really be into exploiting game mechanics for
starters.
And let's get of the tough posture here. We all know how you got your pp and
levels. While all the people on the PvP servers posture about how tough they
are and "it isn't about baking bread", you guys were caught with your pants
down. VI even nerfed the regular servers after seeing how all you PvP gods
were baking and doing quests to get enough money to outfit a character. Just
no way you or any of the other bakers on the PvP servers are going to live
that down.
>
> > Most of the people I have
> > seen claiming they were PvP were really timid like this when it came
right
> > down to it.
>
> Thats very correct. Make sure you KILL THEM. Everyone will die in PvP at
> some point, *everyone*....remember that.
>
> > This is not PvP.
>
> Player vs Player? Sounds like it to me.
No. NFL, NBA, most sports, cards, chess, checkers, Monopoly, all PvP. Duck
hunting, EQ red name, not really PvP.
>
> > If it was about PvP, he would have fought, it is cheapshot.
>
> There's no requirement the person has to fight back.
Like calling a liquor store holdup a shooting contest. If only one has a
gun, no contest, no PvP. The guy working behind the counter is not inviting
a holdup.
If the robber tosses him a gun and says "On 3", then maybe PvP. These are
really simple concepts, I know you have trouble with them. Just take my word
for it, it is how everyone other then the knukleheads on the PvP+ servers
see things.
>
> > There were maybe 10 players there bitching about these morons, me
hunting
> > them. One player complained that had followed him for hours attacking
> > because he had refused to join their guild: Real mature crowd. I make
this:
> > Out of 15 players<buff monkey left> there were 4 assholes enjoying
> > themselves exploiting game mechanics, me<arguably an asshole in my own
> > right> having a decent time hunting them, and 10 disatisfied customers
who
> > think the PvP servers really suck goat balls. I think they have a point.
>
> So you were having a "decent time"? What was all the bitching for then?
> :p
Yes! I talk a lot of smack in game too. Point being the numbers, 10 out of
15 weren't real happy with the situation. Just because I was having a good
time does not mean I can't see or hear the other 10 that weren't. Doesn't
make the 4 knuckleheads and their buff monkey any less lame.
The only redeeming thing about the whole mess was those 10 could go back to
their servers and belc, helc, etcetera will probably stay on RZ. Doesn't
bother me at all that they would. I am mildly worried about how much fun I
had, planing on picking up a magical weapon tonight, but got side tracked.
> You don't even know what PvP means...how could you identify it?
I think we have already clearly established that you are the one with the
definition problem, but then I haven't read every response in this thread
yet. Sight unseen, I am willing to bet the majority of the people will share
my view with the logical conclusion being your don't know what PvP is.
> > The game is just a silly diversion, something I do with my spare time.
>
> You take it so seriously though.
Trust me, I don't take you, the internet, or this game seriously. Ask
anybody.
>
> > Trying to imply there is more significance to it then that is just being
> > shallow.
>
> You just wrote like 2 pages on how much PvP sucks on RZ, how it isn't
> fair, how there are exploiters etc etc, but the game isn't significant?
I take communication seriously. You should see my pizza recipe, I think it
was 4-7 type written pages. I'm known for my verbosity.
Mutahq
Rick Cortese wrote:
>
> "Mutahq" <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> news:3B746FEC...@here.now...
> >
> >
> > Rick Cortese wrote:
> <snip>
> > > Pretty much killing everyone low on life fighting mobs. They were evey
> using
> > > an exploit, removing a HP ring when they got in trouble to prevent
> people
> > > from getting a kill on them and looting rights.
> >
> > Thats a big problem at low levels, I agree. However its not like you
> > have been denied the right to do it too.
> >
> > As for it being an "exploit", no. They can't code it so that damage you
> > don't do gives you looting rights, especially seeing as how now only the
> > person who gets the slain message can loot the corpse. If 5 people are
> > attacking someone and they pull a hp ring, who gets to loot?
>
> Thank you for saying this. I believe there is a kind of Social Darwinism
> that goes on at an accelerated pace in these games. The only people that
> stay on a server or in a game like that are the completely amoral when it
> comes to any sense of fair play.
The server isn't designed to be "fair". It's designed so that there are
clear winners and losers. You lose if you aren't good enough. Fairly
simple thing imo.
> You know how I found my former PvP server? It had been so long that I had
> forgotten. I just did "Sort by number of people on line" and sure enough, it
> was at the top of the list.
Whats your point?
> Not saying you are doing anything illegal, quite the contrary, just using
> these as an analogy. I'll use two examples.
>
> While back MABLA<Man Boy Love Association?> was having their meetings in the
> same library my computer user group met. Quite a bit of controversy, I think
> it was one of the user group members that ratted them out. One of their
> representatives did an interview with the local TV station explaing how
> young boys love sex and they were doing them a favor by "making love" to
> them. w/o a clue.
Nice analogy...paedophilia.
> One of the guys I worked with was cheating on his pregnant wife. Heard this
> from her best friend and verified the story with him. His girlfriend called
> up and asked him to come over. His wife had picked up the phone and while he
> was taking a shower/changing his clothes, she was begging him not to go. He
> responded "I deserve to go because you got fat". w/o a clue. He was kind of
> proud he said it. He used to ask out every girl I was dating too. His
> rationale was ~"If she'll go out with you that means I stand a chance". His
> wife divorced his sorry ass so the story does have a happy ending.
So in other words...you can't cut it, so get the fuck off my server? :p
> You see, clueless behavior like this and as you illustrated so well here is
> the major problems with the PvP servers.
They aren't major problems, and they are easily gotten around. That's my
point. You view them as major problems because you are too stupid to
figure out ways around them.
> No one there wants to PvP, no one
> there wants anything but a rigged game.
It's not rigged.
> The ones that remain and posture as
> PvPers are really just cheap shot artist.
I'm sure if they nerfed PvP so much that you had to agree to fight
someone else you'd like it. Wait..isn't that what a blue server is?
> That 85%<could have changed,
> number release by VI when subscriptions were still ~240k> opt for PvP- when
> PvP+ nothing but a rigged game, well...
So let them not play PvP. I will. And I will keep killing useless people
like you.
> > > They bragged about this in
> > > /shout. Heh, lucky I am not a GM or they wouldn't be able to see the
> login
> > > server even with see invisible up. Corpse camping etcetera everything
> normal
> > > people think is lame.
> >
> > Still wondering why you are hanging around...
>
> I used to do these same type reports for Diablo and UO.
You've made your report, go back to Fennin ro.
> > > Their buff monkey finally took off, I waited for about 20 minutes until
> I
> > > was sure their buffs ran out, then camou'd and started hunting them.
> >
> > Most high level buffs last longer than 20 minutes, especially the hp
> > buffs.
>
> I lose track of time when I am hunting. Really can't tell if it was 5
> minutes or 50, 20 minutes seemed like a reasonable estimate.
Not good enough. If you were paying attention you would have realized
it. This is one of the points I've been making...you've got to pay
attention. You can't just wander around oblivious to the world and
expect the world to revolve around *you*.
Btw buy pumice, for crying out loud.
> > > Sure as
> > > shit, soon as I put a spell on one he ran to the guards screaming like a
> > > little girl. Sometimes I really love doing PvP but it is almost
> impossible
> > > to get someone to PvP when they run like this.
> >
> > You aren't good enough. I know people who haven't levelled past 16 and
> > are decked out with full sets of bd jewellery and the such, because they
> > can do what you can't - kill twinks.
> >
> > Don't take it personally, but most people really don't have what it
> > takes to PvP and win almost all the time. Just like you'll find that one
> > chanter who is *perfect* at what they do in PvE, yet you'll find others
> > who spend their days getting their group killed repeatedly and bitching
> > about how enchanters are fucked etc etc.
>
> Don't take this personally then either. You couldn't wash my jock. First all
> star team I made was 5th grade, lettered all four years in varsity wrestling
> in colleges and set the school record for wins in a season. Only took 2nd in
> the regional Olympic trials so I do have my limits.
That's nice.
> I don't know what it is that makes some people equate sitting at a keyboard
> with having "The Right Stuff".
We are talking about an online based role playing game. Please don't
tell me you deserve to win because you say you have "the right stuff" in
real life...
> The thing is, I and everyone else knows exactly what it takes to play on a
> PvP server. You have to really be into exploiting game mechanics for
> starters.
Nope.
> And let's get of the tough posture here. We all know how you got your pp and
> levels.
Although the point I was making when I revealed that seemed to have been
overlooked.
> While all the people on the PvP servers posture about how tough they
> are and "it isn't about baking bread", you guys were caught with your pants
> down. VI even nerfed the regular servers after seeing how all you PvP gods
> were baking and doing quests to get enough money to outfit a character. Just
> no way you or any of the other bakers on the PvP servers are going to live
> that down.
Ok I was on Sullon Zek when that happened.
Basically VI turned off EVERY newbie quest. All the little quests to
give a few coppers for a <insert newbie loot item> were gone, and
combined with the fact that there was like 150 halfling druids in misty
thicket, it didn't exactly make for a promising experience. People
(including me) ended up baking simply because there was no other way to
get money. I made about 100pp from it and was happy, other people sat
there for days on end doing nothing but baking (...), and ended up with
full sets of store bought banded. Good for them, imo, because they are
the ones who spend literally DAYS clicking their mouse.
Rememeber, when SZ started it was a new server, so its not like you
could just go farm bat wings or bone chips and get the same amount of
cash. I suppose its exploiting if you start on any other server and do
that right?
> > > Most of the people I have
> > > seen claiming they were PvP were really timid like this when it came
> right
> > > down to it.
> >
> > Thats very correct. Make sure you KILL THEM. Everyone will die in PvP at
> > some point, *everyone*....remember that.
> >
> > > This is not PvP.
> >
> > Player vs Player? Sounds like it to me.
>
> No. NFL, NBA, most sports, cards, chess, checkers, Monopoly, all PvP. Duck
> hunting, EQ red name, not really PvP.
...
> > > If it was about PvP, he would have fought, it is cheapshot.
> >
> > There's no requirement the person has to fight back.
>
> Like calling a liquor store holdup a shooting contest. If only one has a
> gun, no contest, no PvP. The guy working behind the counter is not inviting
> a holdup.
>
> If the robber tosses him a gun and says "On 3", then maybe PvP. These are
> really simple concepts, I know you have trouble with them. Just take my word
> for it, it is how everyone other then the knukleheads on the PvP+ servers
> see things.
You've got your own gun you retard. Or do you have a special eq account
where you cant cast spells or do melee attacks?
> > > There were maybe 10 players there bitching about these morons, me
> hunting
> > > them. One player complained that had followed him for hours attacking
> > > because he had refused to join their guild: Real mature crowd. I make
> this:
> > > Out of 15 players<buff monkey left> there were 4 assholes enjoying
> > > themselves exploiting game mechanics, me<arguably an asshole in my own
> > > right> having a decent time hunting them, and 10 disatisfied customers
> who
> > > think the PvP servers really suck goat balls. I think they have a point.
> >
> > So you were having a "decent time"? What was all the bitching for then?
> > :p
>
> Yes! I talk a lot of smack in game too. Point being the numbers, 10 out of
> 15 weren't real happy with the situation. Just because I was having a good
> time does not mean I can't see or hear the other 10 that weren't. Doesn't
> make the 4 knuckleheads and their buff monkey any less lame.
If they weren't having fun they are in the wrong place. That isn't MY
fault, its theirs.
> The only redeeming thing about the whole mess was those 10 could go back to
> their servers and belc, helc, etcetera will probably stay on RZ. Doesn't
> bother me at all that they would. I am mildly worried about how much fun I
> had, planing on picking up a magical weapon tonight, but got side tracked.
So stay on RZ and have fun. But honestly, if I kill you I doubt I could
tell you from any other one of the morons on my server. You'd be naked,
except for nodrop, die a particularly easy death, then proceed to start
giving me tells about how you "werent ready" and how I was
"exploiting"...right?
> > You don't even know what PvP means...how could you identify it?
>
> I think we have already clearly established that you are the one with the
> definition problem, but then I haven't read every response in this thread
> yet.
Hey look I'm not the one who can't cut in on a PvP server.
> Sight unseen, I am willing to bet the majority of the people will share
> my view with the logical conclusion being your don't know what PvP is.
Whoop-de-doo, have a cry, but with some friends!
> > > The game is just a silly diversion, something I do with my spare time.
> >
> > You take it so seriously though.
>
> Trust me, I don't take you, the internet, or this game seriously. Ask
> anybody.
Stop replying then? You are replying to a thread, in detail, about a
server you don't like, about a game you don't care for...
> > > Trying to imply there is more significance to it then that is just being
> > > shallow.
> >
> > You just wrote like 2 pages on how much PvP sucks on RZ, how it isn't
> > fair, how there are exploiters etc etc, but the game isn't significant?
>
> I take communication seriously. You should see my pizza recipe, I think it
> was 4-7 type written pages. I'm known for my verbosity.
Odd. Ya know, if you applied that to actually playing on a PvP server
rather than writing about it, you'd probably get somewhere.
Just a few things to remember about PvP on RZ....
There are no rules other than rules officially made by verant. Only
breaking VI rules is considered exploiting.
Forward thinking is rewarded. As is paranoia.
Make sure you are prepared for PvP if you think it could possibly
happen. If you have to, compromise between preparing for PvP and other
activities.
Think before you act. Is that zone one with lots of pk's? I am
particularly vulnerable in my current state, should I go med behind a
hill, or right in front of this portal? Are my resists enough to resist
most spells? Do I have a pumice in an inventory slot, and is it fully
charged? etc etc.
You didn't expect to blunder into PvP not nowing anything about PvP in
eq and win did you?
Rick Cortese
> The server isn't designed to be "fair". It's designed so that there are
> clear winners and losers. You lose if you aren't good enough. Fairly
> simple thing imo.
OK, three points.
1) That is why it isn't PvP
2) You can't win in an RPG
3) If you insist on there being winners by exploiting game mechanic, Fansy
clearly won which means you lost.
You are a legend in your own mind. I just checked, I have won 5432 games of
Freecell since my last OS install, that means I win. Arbitrary, self
absorbed, standard that no one else recognizes as valid. Get my point?
Probably not. Take a newsgroup poll and see how many people think you are a
winner.
>
> > You know how I found my former PvP server? It had been so long that I
had
> > forgotten. I just did "Sort by number of people on line" and sure
enough, it
> > was at the top of the list.
>
> Whats your point?
Lots of people went PvP when the game first came out, upwards of 40,000.
Total playing the PvP servers now that they have gotten a taste of butt
monkies they run into is down around 4,000. There are now 160k more
subscribers then at that time which means the percentage has dropped even
lower.
So if you turn up your reading comprehension, it is affirming my ~"rapid
deterioration via Social Darwinism" comment.
Lots of people do this, make a statement then support it with evidence. See
how it works? It is called debate. It is part of communication, make a point
and support it with evidence.
It isn't like making a ad hoc statement "The server isn't designed to be
"fair" then not supporting the conclusion with any evidence.
> So in other words...you can't cut it, so get the fuck off my server? :p
Who said I can't cut it? If you challenged me to a circle jerk and I turned
you down would that mean "I can't cut it"? Just that I don't find the
pecular form of entertainment found on PvP servers compelling.
>
> > You see, clueless behavior like this and as you illustrated so well here
is
> > the major problems with the PvP servers.
>
> They aren't major problems, and they are easily gotten around. That's my
> point. You view them as major problems because you are too stupid to
> figure out ways around them.
You really have to work on your reading comprehension. I am a PvP player, I
don't avoid conflict I seek it. I figured you were some kind of sissy who
avoided conflict to get your levels, so I did the "Rivervale to Quenos
Aqueducts" run to show the 50 or so fights I had on the PvP server were my
choice. I even included the fact I got another level while screwing around.
You challenged, I responded with proof that your challenge was baseless. You
make the statement "You view them as major problems because you are too
stupid to figure out ways around them" is just plain retarded. Are there two
of you or something? You thought process is not really connected well.
> > The ones that remain and posture as
> > PvPers are really just cheap shot artist.
>
> I'm sure if they nerfed PvP so much that you had to agree to fight
> someone else you'd like it. Wait..isn't that what a blue server is?
Back up there Hoss, fought 4 guys for over an hour last night. How many did
you fight? Was it taking on a 4 on 1? Thought so. I am a PvP'er, you are a
cheapshot artist, big difference.
> > If the robber tosses him a gun and says "On 3", then maybe PvP. These
are
> > really simple concepts, I know you have trouble with them. Just take my
word
> > for it, it is how everyone other then the knukleheads on the PvP+
servers
> > see things.
>
> You've got your own gun you retard. Or do you have a special eq account
> where you cant cast spells or do melee attacks?
I always thought the cowboys and indian thing, cowboys having guns while the
indians had bows and arrows, was not really PvP. Most people see things that
way, Kevin Costner even made a movie about it.
Mutahq
Rick Cortese wrote:
>
> "Mutahq" <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> news:3B769623...@here.now...
> > The server isn't designed to be "fair". It's designed so that there are
> > clear winners and losers. You lose if you aren't good enough. Fairly
> > simple thing imo.
>
> OK, three points.
>
> 1) That is why it isn't PvP
Player vs Player. Doesn't specify "fair".
> 2) You can't win in an RPG
Certainly can.
> 3) If you insist on there being winners by exploiting game mechanic, Fansy
> clearly won which means you lost.
Blart (Fansy) has never killed me, nor caused me to die (ie by
training).
> You are a legend in your own mind. I just checked, I have won 5432 games of
> Freecell since my last OS install, that means I win. Arbitrary, self
> absorbed, standard that no one else recognizes as valid. Get my point?
> Probably not. Take a newsgroup poll and see how many people think you are a
> winner.
I was initially trying to help your sad arse cope with a PvP server, not
prove I'm a hotshot. You insisted that the whole server was unfair and I
pretty much said its only as unfair as you make it....and gave the
example of myself not falling victim to the same tricks you do.
> > > You know how I found my former PvP server? It had been so long that I
> had
> > > forgotten. I just did "Sort by number of people on line" and sure
> enough, it
> > > was at the top of the list.
> >
> > Whats your point?
>
> Lots of people went PvP when the game first came out, upwards of 40,000.
> Total playing the PvP servers now that they have gotten a taste of butt
> monkies they run into is down around 4,000. There are now 160k more
> subscribers then at that time which means the percentage has dropped even
> lower.
PvP server levels have been static for a LONG time.
> So if you turn up your reading comprehension, it is affirming my ~"rapid
> deterioration via Social Darwinism" comment.
Not decreasing, not increasing. With exception to SZ, as all new servers
get huge amounts of people when they start out.
> Lots of people do this, make a statement then support it with evidence. See
> how it works? It is called debate. It is part of communication, make a point
> and support it with evidence.
Ok your way off topic here...
> It isn't like making a ad hoc statement "The server isn't designed to be
> "fair" then not supporting the conclusion with any evidence.
Well if you'll point me to the part of the rules where it says "PvP must
be fair", I'll stand corrected. Here I'll help you out a little, eh?
http://everquest.station.sony.com/support/policies/conduct.jsp
> > So in other words...you can't cut it, so get the fuck off my server? :p
>
> Who said I can't cut it? If you challenged me to a circle jerk and I turned
> you down would that mean "I can't cut it"? Just that I don't find the
> pecular form of entertainment found on PvP servers compelling.
You are complaining about PvP not being "fair". If you had of just
fucked off back to your blue server without saying anything we wouldn't
be arguing now would we?
> > > You see, clueless behavior like this and as you illustrated so well here
> is
> > > the major problems with the PvP servers.
> >
> > They aren't major problems, and they are easily gotten around. That's my
> > point. You view them as major problems because you are too stupid to
> > figure out ways around them.
>
> You really have to work on your reading comprehension. I am a PvP player, I
> don't avoid conflict I seek it.
RZ is perfect for you.
> I figured you were some kind of sissy who
> avoided conflict to get your levels, so I did the "Rivervale to Quenos
> Aqueducts" run to show the 50 or so fights I had on the PvP server were my
> choice. I even included the fact I got another level while screwing around.
Blah, blah, blah.
> You challenged, I responded with proof that your challenge was baseless. You
> make the statement "You view them as major problems because you are too
> stupid to figure out ways around them" is just plain retarded. Are there two
> of you or something? You thought process is not really connected well.
Blah, blah, blah. How long you played on RZ again? 2 days?
> > > The ones that remain and posture as
> > > PvPers are really just cheap shot artist.
> >
> > I'm sure if they nerfed PvP so much that you had to agree to fight
> > someone else you'd like it. Wait..isn't that what a blue server is?
>
> Back up there Hoss, fought 4 guys for over an hour last night.
For over an hour? hehe sad :p
> How many did
> you fight?
More than 4.
> Was it taking on a 4 on 1?
Nope. If you levelled up you'd realize that even starting in the 30's,
fighting 2v1 has a serious risk no matter how good a jump you get on
them. Of course it doesnt matter around level 8 when spells/melee don't
do jack.
> Thought so. I am a PvP'er, you are a
> cheapshot artist, big difference.
Err 1v1 is a cheapshot? Isn't that "fair"?
> > > If the robber tosses him a gun and says "On 3", then maybe PvP. These
> are
> > > really simple concepts, I know you have trouble with them. Just take my
> word
> > > for it, it is how everyone other then the knukleheads on the PvP+
> servers
> > > see things.
> >
> > You've got your own gun you retard. Or do you have a special eq account
> > where you cant cast spells or do melee attacks?
>
> I always thought the cowboys and indian thing, cowboys having guns while the
> indians had bows and arrows, was not really PvP. Most people see things that
> way, Kevin Costner even made a movie about it.
Cry cry cry!
Look I've got over 150days played on RZ, I know it like the back of my
hand. I am serious when I say I know wtf I'm talking about. I gave you
probably the best advice you'll ever get (apart from maybe bag and gate
like the ho you are~). I can count the times I've died on my main in the
last 6 months on one hand. I PvP every day. I get attacked all the time.
I do know wtf I'm talking about. It's ok if you can't handle a ruthless
server like RZ, as you said, most people can't.
Rick Cortese
>
>
> Rick Cortese wrote:
> >
<snip>
<snip>
> > Lots of people do this, make a statement then support it with evidence.
See
> > how it works? It is called debate. It is part of communication, make a
point
> > and support it with evidence.
>
> Ok your way off topic here...
It's how it is done in newsgroups. If I was off topic I would have been
corrected by a dozen netcops.
>
> > It isn't like making a ad hoc statement "The server isn't designed to be
> > "fair" then not supporting the conclusion with any evidence.
>
> Well if you'll point me to the part of the rules where it says "PvP must
> be fair", I'll stand corrected. Here I'll help you out a little, eh?
>
> http://everquest.station.sony.com/support/policies/conduct.jsp
Ok, I see your problem. You haven't read all the rules and are referencing
the wrong blurb.
/*
From http://everquest.station.sony.com/support/policies/guide_faq.jsp
What is an exploit?
Exploitation is defined as abusing a weakness or anomaly in the game system.
An exploit provides advantage for one or more players with the intention of
profiting from them in some manner.
Examples of Exploitation:
Duping - creation of money or items from nothing, or anomalies within the
game, or possession of such money or items.
Farming - using broken spells or specific spell effects to kill, drag, or
lure monsters, thus gaining experience/loot from them.
Safe Zones - using areas of bad data in the game that have monsters behaving
erratically (such as running in place, running around, standing still, or
any other behavior that has the monster not defending itself) to kill said
monsters with minimal or no danger to the attacker.
Price Gouging - finding items that have anomalous pricing and abusing them,
such as items that sell for more than they cost to buy.
PvP Switch Avoidance - using in-game methods to work around the PvP switch
and allowing non-PvP players to kill other players, such as hall blocking,
dumping of monsters, or spell effects that cross that boundary due to a bug.
*/
So doing things like taking a HP ring to prevent someone who killed you from
looting would be a PvP exploit.
Of course when I was running around there again tonight I found one guy
farming using pathing bugs: Reported his ass. Funny thing is I saw a guy on
a normal server doing it and I just let it slide. Something about a cheating
in a PvP vs PvM envirionment really doesn't sit well with me. Could be
because on my next trip to RZ that say jerk would be using his cheated
advantage to kill me. I may not go back, but I wouldn't even want to see
this guy kill anybody after cheating like this. Didn't ask if he was a PK or
anti as it doesn't make a diff to me.
I had another guy accuse me of training a guard on him to get him killed. I
tried to reason with him, went something like
Me; "If I trained a guard, how come I didn't die too?"
Dewd; "U zoned"
Me; "If I zoned, how did I loot your kills?"
Dewd; "U zoned and cam bak"
Dewd; "I'm going to report U for training"
Me; "You are a very boring person. Before I put you on /ignore I want to
thank you for the fine steel weapons"<They were really only bronze, but I
wanted to rub it in>
He was trying to kill Chandra Miller while standing next to the guard. It's
hard to find sophisticated play like that outside of the PvP servers. Made
me wonder how he got enough levels, must of been pathing bugs.
Mostly I just gave directions and game advice. Couldn't believe the number
of mundane questions 5x"Where is the bank?", 3x"Who do I turn teeth into?",
"How do I get out of South Qeynos?", "How do I get to the SK guild?", "Who
do I give moonstones to?"/"Where is he?", ... I think I even answered a
tailoring question w/o /emote giggle You aren't in Kansas Dorthy.
I really got the impression RZ has taken the place of the EQ Demo. I think
rookies are looking for a server that isn't crowded and don't know what PvP
stands for.
> > > So in other words...you can't cut it, so get the fuck off my server?
:p
> >
> > Who said I can't cut it? If you challenged me to a circle jerk and I
turned
> > you down would that mean "I can't cut it"? Just that I don't find the
> > pecular form of entertainment found on PvP servers compelling.
>
> You are complaining about PvP not being "fair". If you had of just
> fucked off back to your blue server without saying anything we wouldn't
> be arguing now would we?
Nope, not arguing. Actually I am ripping you a new asshole. I kind of like
doing this in newsgroups. Some people think I am cruel. If I start beating
you up to badly they may ask me to stop.
You see my goal was to expose you as an ignorant slobbering idiot. That is
in part, what the challenge for you to post factual evidence to support your
claims was about. You complied nicely in this round by posting the wrong
link and getting bent out of shape. Hard to believe you are an expert on
anything. You lived up to everyones expectation about what kind of ignorant
creatin they would find on RZ. In "newsgroup" this means I win. Thanks for
playing. We'll have to do this again sometime.
Mutahq
Rick Cortese wrote:
>
> "Mutahq" <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> news:3B76D859...@here.now...
> >
> >
> > Rick Cortese wrote:
> > >
> <snip>
> <snip>
> > > Lots of people do this, make a statement then support it with evidence.
> See
> > > how it works? It is called debate. It is part of communication, make a
> point
> > > and support it with evidence.
> >
> > Ok your way off topic here...
>
> It's how it is done in newsgroups. If I was off topic I would have been
> corrected by a dozen netcops.
Yet somehow your "evidence" of how much RZ sucked was based on what, 3
hours of PvP at level 6? You do realize there are 54 *other* levels? You
fell victim to a group of lowbie pk's. They're everywhere, get used to
it. It used to be a million times worse when there was PvP allowed under
level 6, every single time blue servers were down the popular newb zones
were inexplicably flooded with level5 pk's.
Btw once you get past about level 20 or so the amount of times you will
be attacked will be *much* lower. How do I know this? Well I've exp'ed
way past 20 on a few characters, so I do know what I'm saying.
> > > It isn't like making a ad hoc statement "The server isn't designed to be
> > > "fair" then not supporting the conclusion with any evidence.
> >
> > Well if you'll point me to the part of the rules where it says "PvP must
> > be fair", I'll stand corrected. Here I'll help you out a little, eh?
> >
> > http://everquest.station.sony.com/support/policies/conduct.jsp
>
> Ok, I see your problem. You haven't read all the rules and are referencing
> the wrong blurb.
I don't quite see the part referring to killing someone while they
"aren't ready".
It isn't an anomoly in the game system that causes you to be low on
health, its an anomoly in *you*.
Although feel free to report me to VI. Tell them that Yaarii the level
54 necro is running around killing people in order to profit from them.
I'm sure they will come down on me like a ton of bricks eh?
> /*
> From http://everquest.station.sony.com/support/policies/guide_faq.jsp
> What is an exploit?
> Exploitation is defined as abusing a weakness or anomaly in the game system.
> An exploit provides advantage for one or more players with the intention of
> profiting from them in some manner.
> Examples of Exploitation:
> Duping - creation of money or items from nothing, or anomalies within the
> game, or possession of such money or items.
> Farming - using broken spells or specific spell effects to kill, drag, or
> lure monsters, thus gaining experience/loot from them.
> Safe Zones - using areas of bad data in the game that have monsters behaving
> erratically (such as running in place, running around, standing still, or
> any other behavior that has the monster not defending itself) to kill said
> monsters with minimal or no danger to the attacker.
> Price Gouging - finding items that have anomalous pricing and abusing them,
> such as items that sell for more than they cost to buy.
> PvP Switch Avoidance - using in-game methods to work around the PvP switch
> and allowing non-PvP players to kill other players, such as hall blocking,
> dumping of monsters, or spell effects that cross that boundary due to a bug.
> */
I don't use any one of those exploits.
> So doing things like taking a HP ring to prevent someone who killed you from
> looting would be a PvP exploit.
If you feel so strongly about that, then go email verant about it every
day. For something thats such an exploit, VI seemed to have ignored it
for a helluva long time.
> Of course when I was running around there again tonight I found one guy
> farming using pathing bugs: Reported his ass.
Yep.
> Funny thing is I saw a guy on
> a normal server doing it and I just let it slide. Something about a cheating
> in a PvP vs PvM envirionment really doesn't sit well with me.
Thought you said you played UO and Diablo? rofl!!
> Could be
> because on my next trip to RZ that say jerk would be using his cheated
> advantage to kill me.
I take it you feel the same way about the hundreds of plvl'd characters
too?
> I may not go back,
I suggest you don't.
> but I wouldn't even want to see
> this guy kill anybody after cheating like this. Didn't ask if he was a PK or
> anti as it doesn't make a diff to me.
More to the point, who cares? Exp can be gained virtually everywhere,
and I don't know too many important PvP items that can be farmed using
an exploit. Most decent PvP items are on the rare-ish side.
> I had another guy accuse me of training a guard on him to get him killed. I
> tried to reason with him, went something like
>
> Me; "If I trained a guard, how come I didn't die too?"
> Dewd; "U zoned"
> Me; "If I zoned, how did I loot your kills?"
> Dewd; "U zoned and cam bak"
> Dewd; "I'm going to report U for training"
> Me; "You are a very boring person. Before I put you on /ignore I want to
> thank you for the fine steel weapons"<They were really only bronze, but I
> wanted to rub it in>
Don't even bother replying to gutter trash. You really are a newbie :(
> He was trying to kill Chandra Miller while standing next to the guard. It's
> hard to find sophisticated play like that outside of the PvP servers. Made
> me wonder how he got enough levels, must of been pathing bugs.
Nope, any retard can level. Theres *plenty* of tards 50+.
> Mostly I just gave directions and game advice. Couldn't believe the number
> of mundane questions 5x"Where is the bank?", 3x"Who do I turn teeth into?",
> "How do I get out of South Qeynos?", "How do I get to the SK guild?", "Who
> do I give moonstones to?"/"Where is he?", ... I think I even answered a
> tailoring question w/o /emote giggle You aren't in Kansas Dorthy.
I generally ignore that stuff, every time I've helped someone they end
up begging me for items or plat or something.
> I really got the impression RZ has taken the place of the EQ Demo. I think
> rookies are looking for a server that isn't crowded and don't know what PvP
> stands for.
A lot of them try it because they think it will be fun. Some stay, some
don't.
> > > > So in other words...you can't cut it, so get the fuck off my server?
> :p
> > >
> > > Who said I can't cut it? If you challenged me to a circle jerk and I
> turned
> > > you down would that mean "I can't cut it"? Just that I don't find the
> > > pecular form of entertainment found on PvP servers compelling.
> >
> > You are complaining about PvP not being "fair". If you had of just
> > fucked off back to your blue server without saying anything we wouldn't
> > be arguing now would we?
>
> Nope, not arguing. Actually I am ripping you a new asshole.
Sorry you failed :(
I'm not about to get myself involved in an arguement about the sleeper,
or what is the best PvE melee waist slot items, or whatever....because I
honestly don't know anything about that. I spend as much of my eq life
PvP'ing as I can, exp and camping items is the bad part of eq to me.
Perhaps you should have taken this advice *before* you tried to tell me
what PvP was, based on your several hours playtime at level 6 :p
> I kind of like
> doing this in newsgroups. Some people think I am cruel. If I start beating
> you up to badly they may ask me to stop.
Hey what would *I* know about RZ? I've only PvP'd on RZ every single day
for almost 2 years.
> You see my goal was to expose you as an ignorant slobbering idiot. That is
> in part, what the challenge for you to post factual evidence to support your
> claims was about. You complied nicely in this round by posting the wrong
> link and getting bent out of shape.
Not my fault that you don't like RZ.
> Hard to believe you are an expert on
> anything.
I know more about PvP than you could ever dream of knowing. If you had
even the slightest bit of brains, you would have ignored the 4 lowbie
pk's.
> You lived up to everyones expectation about what kind of ignorant
> creatin they would find on RZ.
I'm just telling you (an RZ newbie) how it is.
> In "newsgroup" this means I win.
Be sure to provide a link with proof of this :p
> Thanks for
> playing. We'll have to do this again sometime.
That's ok. I would camp you a tissue on Mith Marr, but I didn't feel
like waiting in a line :(
Rick Cortese
> I don't quite see the part referring to killing someone while they
> "aren't ready".
Look, I can get you the link where VI says specifically states things like
bind point camping are bannable offenses for just that reason, but I really
tire of you. This is starting to look like roadkill.
I mean the newsgroup is meant for an intellectual exchange of information.
Unfortutately everyone in the newsgroup with the exception of yourself
already seems to know the rules and you don't seem to understand them.
Which is my point see? You tried to pass yourself off as an expert, you got
spanked. You really aren't that knowledgable about the game or its rules
relative to the average person in the newsgoup. Everything else I said in
this thread was just setting you up to be newgroup PK'd. Do you get it now?
Ever hear of trolling maybe? I am really starting to take pity on you.
Suffice to say you have been dismissed from class.
StanMann
Rick Cortese wrote:
>
> "Mutahq" <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> news:3B779536...@here.now...
> > I don't quite see the part referring to killing someone while they
> > "aren't ready".
>
> Look, I can get you the link where VI says specifically states things like
> bind point camping are bannable offenses for just that reason, but I really
> tire of you. This is starting to look like roadkill.
>
Ok, so bind point camping is bannable, Doesn't say anything about
ganking someone walking at half health from a dungeon to the bank.
> I mean the newsgroup is meant for an intellectual exchange of information.
> Unfortutately everyone in the newsgroup with the exception of yourself
> already seems to know the rules and you don't seem to understand them.
And the Normal rules don't apply to PVP. You seem confused about how
the world works.
>
> Which is my point see? You tried to pass yourself off as an expert, you got
> spanked. You really aren't that knowledgable about the game or its rules
> relative to the average person in the newsgoup. Everything else I said in
> this thread was just setting you up to be newgroup PK'd. Do you get it now?
> Ever hear of trolling maybe? I am really starting to take pity on you.
> Suffice to say you have been dismissed from class.
He is an expert. at 50+ with 2 years on Gankos Zek, being a member of
DB, Everyone guns for him. If you noticed, he mentioned having 3+
Lures/ICs incoming upon gating/zoning to nek.
StanMann
--
OK, I have tremendous admiration for someone who goes to the trouble of
learning American English when it isn't their native tongue, but there
is
precious little that is funnier than someone cursing in English when
they
aren't completely fluent in it. It's made even funnier when they're
apopleptic with rage, as Arnaud here is.--Brandon Blackmoor
Rick Cortese
news:3B7833C2...@not.there.anymore.com...
>
>
> Rick Cortese wrote:
> >
> > "Mutahq" <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> > news:3B779536...@here.now...
> > > I don't quite see the part referring to killing someone while they
> > > "aren't ready".
> >
> > Look, I can get you the link where VI says specifically states things
like
> > bind point camping are bannable offenses for just that reason, but I
really
> > tire of you. This is starting to look like roadkill.
> >
>
> Ok, so bind point camping is bannable, Doesn't say anything about
> ganking someone walking at half health from a dungeon to the bank.
The point of contention was if the rule set was designed for and I quote
"fair play".
In VI's own words, their list of exploits are examples vs exhaustive. VI
readily admits that there are bugs and exploits as yet to be discovered. I
think a direct if not close quote from them is "If you think it might be an
exploit, it is." The server *is* designed to be as fair as it can be under
the circumstances which is open PvP for level 6+.
>
> > I mean the newsgroup is meant for an intellectual exchange of
information.
> > Unfortutately everyone in the newsgroup with the exception of yourself
> > already seems to know the rules and you don't seem to understand them.
>
> And the Normal rules don't apply to PVP. You seem confused about how
> the world works.
Point of order, the rule set on the PvP servers like RZ<we are talking RZ>
is not a subset but a superset of rules applied on top of existing rules.
You still get banned for training, exploiting, cheating, harassment, have
stupid names changed, everything like a normal server with the added bonus
of being banned for things like bind point camping.
The only rule that does not apply is "consentual only combat" which is kind
of obvious. That would be "rule" vs "rules" as you posted. The confusion is
obviously yours.
> He is an expert. at 50+ with 2 years on Gankos Zek, being a member of
> DB, Everyone guns for him. If you noticed, he mentioned having 3+
> Lures/ICs incoming upon gating/zoning to nek.
I don't question that he is good at what he does, I just say it isn't PvP so
much as hunting cripples and cheapshots. If he wanted to post "I am the best
cheapshot artist in the game" I probably wouldn't contest it. I haven't seen
his name come up as a winner in the Best of the Best competition yet anyway.
Those would be the ones having a valid claim to knowing what PvP is about.
Mutahq
Rick Cortese wrote:
>
> "StanMann" <stan...@not.there.anymore.com> wrote in message
> news:3B7833C2...@not.there.anymore.com...
> >
> >
> > Rick Cortese wrote:
> > >
> > > "Mutahq" <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> > > news:3B779536...@here.now...
> > > > I don't quite see the part referring to killing someone while they
> > > > "aren't ready".
> > >
> > > Look, I can get you the link where VI says specifically states things
> like
> > > bind point camping are bannable offenses for just that reason, but I
> really
> > > tire of you. This is starting to look like roadkill.
> > >
> >
> > Ok, so bind point camping is bannable, Doesn't say anything about
> > ganking someone walking at half health from a dungeon to the bank.
>
> The point of contention was if the rule set was designed for and I quote
> "fair play".
Like I said, if I'm breaking any rules feel free to report me to VI. I
gave you my player name, can't be too hard to do.
> In VI's own words, their list of exploits are examples vs exhaustive. VI
> readily admits that there are bugs and exploits as yet to be discovered. I
> think a direct if not close quote from them is "If you think it might be an
> exploit, it is." The server *is* designed to be as fair as it can be under
> the circumstances which is open PvP for level 6+.
See above.
> > > I mean the newsgroup is meant for an intellectual exchange of
> information.
> > > Unfortutately everyone in the newsgroup with the exception of yourself
> > > already seems to know the rules and you don't seem to understand them.
> >
> > And the Normal rules don't apply to PVP. You seem confused about how
> > the world works.
>
> Point of order, the rule set on the PvP servers like RZ<we are talking RZ>
> is not a subset but a superset of rules applied on top of existing rules.
> You still get banned for training, exploiting, cheating, harassment, have
> stupid names changed, everything like a normal server with the added bonus
> of being banned for things like bind point camping.
Since when were we talking about bind point camping. Naked people at
their bind points don't give loot and are a waste of mana.
However there are times when I will kill naked people. If I see someone
who looks like they could be a pain any time soon (ie jumping into a
fight I'm going to have) then of course I will kill them. The last thing
I want is 3 extra lures or a 900dmg HT coming at me in the middle of a
fight from someone who has absolutely nothing to lose.
> The only rule that does not apply is "consentual only combat" which is kind
> of obvious. That would be "rule" vs "rules" as you posted. The confusion is
> obviously yours.
Nope.
> > He is an expert. at 50+ with 2 years on Gankos Zek, being a member of
> > DB, Everyone guns for him. If you noticed, he mentioned having 3+
> > Lures/ICs incoming upon gating/zoning to nek.
>
> I don't question that he is good at what he does, I just say it isn't PvP so
> much as hunting cripples and cheapshots.
PvP covers all forms of Player vs Player combat, fair or not.
> If he wanted to post "I am the best
> cheapshot artist in the game" I probably wouldn't contest it.
There are better people at doing that. Ask one of the many nodrop lvl52
wizards, they have that title.
> I haven't seen
> his name come up as a winner in the Best of the Best competition yet anyway.
If I was level 60 and had a super computer I probably would have entered
the necro BotB. I did go and watch the BotB though (at 5fps...), the
person who won on RZ was a level 60 from the guild "The Begotten".
I can say that I probably would have beaten about half the people in the
BotB hands down, as most were just anti's who didn't know what they are
doing (ie the level 60 necro who lost to a level 54 because he didnt
bother casting a pet etc).
Don't think I would have beaten Zyrino (the winner), or Nimade (the
runner up).
> Those would be the ones having a valid claim to knowing what PvP is about.
Not really. Nimade gets owned fairly regularly, he tries to cast the
necro epic on people for crying out loud. Zyrino *does* know what he is
doing though, and he also has godly gear as well.
James
Mutahq wrote in message <3B73658A...@here.now>...
>James wrote:
>>
>> >Although now I almost always refuse to PvP vs rogues and *especially*
>> >sk's. Rogues do insane amounts of damage at high levels, and that 900dmg
>> >unresistable, 0.0 cast time HT those sk's have can ruin my day very
>> >quick (esp. seeing as in my self-buffed in resist gear I've only got
>> >1099hp + about 550hp for manaskin). A few swings of that sword and a
>> >lifetap or two and I'm dead.
>>
>> Do you find that the PvP rogues bother using poisons when they set up
an
>> attack, or do they just trust in double backstabs to drop you?
>
>Very rarely. Over 130pr self-buffed is a bitch to get any poison to
>stick to.
True, seeing a floating necro would discourage someone from using it. I
was talking in general, though - do you hear about poison being used much,
or as little as on a blue server? My rogue used some Paralyze II in a camp
recently on a mob - 33% slowdown, 95% snare. Shocked the hell out of the
group - "A rogue can do THAT?!?"
>I was hanging with a friend on mine who was on his friends 58 rogue, he
>backstabs for 650, and higher rogues can get much higher dmg than that.
>I don't have THAT much hp, so I tend not to fight them.
Max. backstab possible, with discipline, is about the same damage as an
Ice Comet. Add in the chance of double backstab, and letting a rogue behind
you is just death. If you didn't have such a bad computer/connection,
though, you might be able to fight them. IF you know a rogue is coming (and
that's the rub in all PvP, isn't it?) there's a few things you can do:
1) Get your back against a wall, and stay put. Backstab is a rogue's biggest
weapon. Without it, he's pretty much a ranger with hide/sneak.
2) Get up Banshee Aura. As a cleric that has to heal rogues that go up
against Banshee Aura'ed mobs, I can tell you that he'll be killing himself
VERY quickly on this. If he stops attacking to try and dispel you, you get a
chance to either re-cast the spell as he dispels (requires timing), or just
get in a good DoT/Tap. If you have access to a damage shield potion from a
shaman, you'll roll the rogue.
3) Have a chanellable Tap/Leach-line spell available. As long as you don't
die, he will from the damage shield and Gobantik. And once he turns to run
(which he will), he's doomed.
Question: do pets on /guard here turn to face invisible opponents too,
like a rogue with hide/sneak up?
James
Mutahq
James wrote:
>
> Mutahq wrote in message <3B73658A...@here.now>...
> >James wrote:
> >>
> >> >Although now I almost always refuse to PvP vs rogues and *especially*
> >> >sk's. Rogues do insane amounts of damage at high levels, and that 900dmg
> >> >unresistable, 0.0 cast time HT those sk's have can ruin my day very
> >> >quick (esp. seeing as in my self-buffed in resist gear I've only got
> >> >1099hp + about 550hp for manaskin). A few swings of that sword and a
> >> >lifetap or two and I'm dead.
> >>
> >> Do you find that the PvP rogues bother using poisons when they set up
> an
> >> attack, or do they just trust in double backstabs to drop you?
> >
> >Very rarely. Over 130pr self-buffed is a bitch to get any poison to
> >stick to.
>
> True, seeing a floating necro would discourage someone from using it.
That is true. However I have been ebolt'ed several times (out of many,
many attempts) with 130+ pr. And ebolt is a nasty spell on a caster in a
PvP situation.
> I
> was talking in general, though - do you hear about poison being used much,
> or as little as on a blue server?
Rogue's are pretty much a mystery. All I know is that while there is a
rogue around, I will get interupted a lot, and if I get backstabbed I'm
almost dead :p
Not many rogues use poison in PvP as far as I've seen, although I tend
to avoid them.
> My rogue used some Paralyze II in a camp
> recently on a mob - 33% slowdown, 95% snare. Shocked the hell out of the
> group - "A rogue can do THAT?!?"
Aye. Most people think rogues are just people who backstab a mob, then
needs chain-heals to stay alive :p
> >I was hanging with a friend on mine who was on his friends 58 rogue, he
> >backstabs for 650, and higher rogues can get much higher dmg than that.
> >I don't have THAT much hp, so I tend not to fight them.
>
> Max. backstab possible, with discipline, is about the same damage as an
> Ice Comet.
That is correct, however spells only do 66% damage in PvP. So Ice Comet
does something like a little over 700 (been a long time since I've
tested it, I run with 150+cr so it never max's its damage on me). Rogue
backstab's *arent* nerfed in PvP, like all melee damage.
I saw a screenshot of Reefman (60 rogue RZ, won server BotB and I think
came second at the finals) kill a warrior in 3 backstabs.
> Add in the chance of double backstab, and letting a rogue behind
> you is just death.
Very much so! It is very hard to avoid rogues in anything other than 1v1
confrontations though. And even then, I've gotta be strafing around and
shadowstepping a lot, meaning most of the fight is spent not casting.
> If you didn't have such a bad computer/connection,
> though, you might be able to fight them.
Not much I can do about my connection, I'm on cable from australia, and
the real holding back factor is the link to the US. They recently made a
new one, which my ISP got part of the bandwidth, and my ping times went
down to 220 with 0% packetloss, but then it started going to shit so
they've re-routed everyone through the old link giving me around 360-450
ping with low packetloss (0-10%).
This is also part of the reason why I don't have much fun playing
melee's, as it is *very* hard to PvP a melee without a decent
connection.
> IF you know a rogue is coming (and
> that's the rub in all PvP, isn't it?) there's a few things you can do:
>
> 1) Get your back against a wall, and stay put. Backstab is a rogue's biggest
> weapon. Without it, he's pretty much a ranger with hide/sneak.
Rogues don't scare me when I'm prepared. However if I get double
backstabbed out of nowhere, and lured by his friend, I'm dead. (keep in
mind the AC of a necro wearing resist gear is laughable..).
> 2) Get up Banshee Aura. As a cleric that has to heal rogues that go up
> against Banshee Aura'ed mobs, I can tell you that he'll be killing himself
> VERY quickly on this. If he stops attacking to try and dispel you, you get a
> chance to either re-cast the spell as he dispels (requires timing), or just
> get in a good DoT/Tap. If you have access to a damage shield potion from a
> shaman, you'll roll the rogue.
I hate using specific buffs, esp. mid-fight, as they tend to fill my dot
slots...which can be a pain if a wandering druid decides I want to be
Winged Death'd.
Keep in mind that I have 1100hp + 550 (manaskin), and the rogue has 2k+
or so (I think, anyway). Damage shields are used in PvP a bit by druids
though, their high level damage shields + regen + heal's combine to make
them formidable to a melee (if the druid has prep time for the fight).
In a fight in an open area against a rogue, I'd have to say I'd cast
ignite blood, then splurt (both unresistable, but pumice-able). By that
time the rogue has decided whether he is staying to fight, or is running
(most people choose to run). I can usually get a quick deflux in at that
point. I wouldn't fight a rogue that is ready for me though, the only
time I can reliably cast on a rogue/monk/ranger is when I get the jump.
If he stays to fight then I just strafe around to avoid melee while the
pet beats on him and dot's do damage. I usually use sow potions for the
speed advantage (*everyone* on RZ has jboots 50+, not sure if its the
same on blue servers), which helps to avoid the melee person, or chase
them down to deflux again. If he manages to pumice my dot's my
likelihood of winning is a lot less.
Also keepin mind, a lot of PvP battles come to me, so a lot of the time
I don't have a pet up (simply don't feel like medding for a few minutes
every time I zone).
> 3) Have a chanellable Tap/Leach-line spell available. As long as you don't
> die, he will from the damage shield and Gobantik. And once he turns to run
> (which he will), he's doomed.
No point trying to channel through rogues, monks and rangers imo. At
high levels they seem to do *ridiculous* amounts of hits per second, and
I never seem to be able to cast through them. I almost died to a ranger
in KC because I just wanted to get just 1 deflux off...I kept being able
to cast 2.9999 seconds of the spell then he'd come and belt me several
hundred times just before deflux gets to 3.0 seconds and casts :p
> Question: do pets on /guard here turn to face invisible opponents too,
> like a rogue with hide/sneak up?
I actually have no idea about that. I never use /pet guard here, except
for exp'ing.
Pets are good range finders though. If you were in my zone I would type
"/pet attack James", and if you were in the level range (+/-4 levels on
RZ) then it will say nothing, but whenever you got inside its agro
radius it will attack you, unless I give it other commands before that.
If you are not within the PvP range then the pet will say you aren't a
legal target.
I use that to sort through potential attackers when I am exp'ing (as
doing /who every 5 seconds is second nature to me).
Anyway, rogues are very lethal 55+. PvP is a bit like "scissors paper
rock" though, there is no way to win *all* fights. I just tend to avoid
rogues because the potential for extremely high PvP damage is there.
With 0.0 cast-time and being almost "unresistable" (c'mon, I'm a caster
:p).
James
Mutahq wrote in message <3B78EA5F...@here.now>...
>James wrote:
>>
>> True, seeing a floating necro would discourage someone from using it.
>
>That is true. However I have been ebolt'ed several times (out of many,
>many attempts) with 130+ pr. And ebolt is a nasty spell on a caster in a
>PvP situation.
I can imagine that's a "must dispel now" effect. I was nearly killed
last night by the Death Beetle's DoT, and that isn't as strong as EBolt. (I
imagine those glands are an unpleasant shock at times too.)
>> My rogue used some Paralyze II in a camp
>> recently on a mob - 33% slowdown, 95% snare. Shocked the hell out of the
>> group - "A rogue can do THAT?!?"
>
>Aye. Most people think rogues are just people who backstab a mob, then
>needs chain-heals to stay alive :p
Evade means rarely having to say you're sorry. ;-) I was invited to
Bats/Bugs at level 40 in Sol B, where most mobs are even cons or so. So I
started using a few poisons, to stay useful to the group - a few Lower
Resists II on Stone Spider and Death Beetle, but mostly Injected II (41
initial damage, 41 dam/tick for 5 ticks). My opening would be backstab,
autoattack (poison procs here), Evade. I could usually get them off me,
unless our crazy tank switched targets for the tenth time or backed up from
a rooted mob yet again. Not that I'm bitter.
>I saw a screenshot of Reefman (60 rogue RZ, won server BotB and I think
>came second at the finals) kill a warrior in 3 backstabs.
If it's the screenshot I'm thinking of, he had the warrior sit, too.
When someone's sitting the damage possible apparently goes up - max backstab
observed on a fighting opponent is just over 1100, but on the sitting
opponent with discipline activated the rogue in question landed a shot for
over 1300 damage. And seeing as how casters med.....
>> Add in the chance of double backstab, and letting a rogue behind
>> you is just death.
>
>Very much so! It is very hard to avoid rogues in anything other than 1v1
>confrontations though. And even then, I've gotta be strafing around and
>shadowstepping a lot, meaning most of the fight is spent not casting.
It's funny - most people say rogues stink in PvP. But what they really
mean is rogues suck at duels, where everyone is prepared and there's room to
move. I can just imagine the VERY quick feeling of horror a caster on a PvP
server would get if he suddenly saw, "Rogue's muscles bulge with force of
will." Followed by one or two damage messages and LOADING, PLEASE WAIT.
>> IF you know a rogue is coming (and
>> that's the rub in all PvP, isn't it?) there's a few things you can do:
>>
>> 1) Get your back against a wall, and stay put. Backstab is a rogue's
biggest
>> weapon. Without it, he's pretty much a ranger with hide/sneak.
>
>Rogues don't scare me when I'm prepared. However if I get double
>backstabbed out of nowhere, and lured by his friend, I'm dead. (keep in
>mind the AC of a necro wearing resist gear is laughable..).
Ah, INT-caster armour - is that a 1-ply or 2-ply robe? ;-)
>> 2) Get up Banshee Aura. As a cleric that has to heal rogues that go up
>> against Banshee Aura'ed mobs, I can tell you that he'll be killing
himself
>> VERY quickly on this. If he stops attacking to try and dispel you, you
get a
>> chance to either re-cast the spell as he dispels (requires timing), or
just
>> get in a good DoT/Tap. If you have access to a damage shield potion from
a
>> shaman, you'll roll the rogue.
>
>I hate using specific buffs, esp. mid-fight, as they tend to fill my dot
>slots...which can be a pain if a wandering druid decides I want to be
>Winged Death'd.
If you get attacked by a rogue AND someone else, though, isn't it time
to cut losses and bail? Or are you able to take on superior numbers? In what
little I've read about PvP, the usual strategy against numbers is to run and
hope to split them up, just run, or have numbers of your own.
>In a fight in an open area against a rogue, I'd have to say I'd cast
>ignite blood, then splurt (both unresistable, but pumice-able).
Splurt must be a tough cast in PvP. Good for the long fight, but if he
can finish you fast he KNOWS he can Pumice it away before it does the bulk
of the damage it'll do. Splurt-Shadow Step must be fun - if a PvP target is
running around, does a DoT do 4/9ths damage? (Two thirds PvP rule, two
thirds moving target)
>By that
>time the rogue has decided whether he is staying to fight, or is running
>(most people choose to run). I can usually get a quick deflux in at that
>point. I wouldn't fight a rogue that is ready for me though, the only
>time I can reliably cast on a rogue/monk/ranger is when I get the jump.
That's good to know, that multiple attacks can stop spellcasting with
ease.
>If he stays to fight then I just strafe around to avoid melee while the
>pet beats on him and dot's do damage. I usually use sow potions for the
>speed advantage (*everyone* on RZ has jboots 50+, not sure if its the
>same on blue servers),
As a 59 cleric without them, I can personally disprove that everyone has
them. :-/ But I despise camping items, so I'm likely the exception.
>> Question: do pets on /guard here turn to face invisible opponents
too,
>> like a rogue with hide/sneak up?
>
>I actually have no idea about that. I never use /pet guard here, except
>for exp'ing.
/pet guard me is the standard, then?
>Pets are good range finders though. If you were in my zone I would type
>"/pet attack James"
/cry - what did I do to you! Oh, yeah - you're a PK, and I'm a bluebie
sucka. ;-)
>and if you were in the level range (+/-4 levels on
>RZ) then it will say nothing, but whenever you got inside its agro
>radius it will attack you,
How does it react to an invisible opponent? Do you need See Invis up?
Does the opponent need up ITU or Invis to avoid an attack if you don't have
a see invis effect (although with DMF, like you ever lack one).
>unless I give it other commands before that.
>If you are not within the PvP range then the pet will say you aren't a
>legal target.
>
>I use that to sort through potential attackers when I am exp'ing (as
>doing /who every 5 seconds is second nature to me).
VERY nice feature. Although you must begin to know the names of people
as time goes by, and know to get ready when the usual suspects zone in.
>Anyway, rogues are very lethal 55+. PvP is a bit like "scissors paper
>rock" though, there is no way to win *all* fights.
It's good to hear that there's balance. When most people hear about PvP,
it's the big three - WIZ, NEC, DRU - beating the heck out of everyone else.
Nice to see that one class, or one small subset of classes, doesn't own
everyone else.
James
Mutahq
James wrote:
>
> Mutahq wrote in message <3B78EA5F...@here.now>...
> >James wrote:
> >>
> >> True, seeing a floating necro would discourage someone from using it.
> >
> >That is true. However I have been ebolt'ed several times (out of many,
> >many attempts) with 130+ pr. And ebolt is a nasty spell on a caster in a
> >PvP situation.
>
> I can imagine that's a "must dispel now" effect. I was nearly killed
> last night by the Death Beetle's DoT, and that isn't as strong as EBolt. (I
> imagine those glands are an unpleasant shock at times too.)
You need cure poison potions to get rid of ebolt, which is part of why
its so nasty. Not to mention it does all its damage very very fast.
> >> My rogue used some Paralyze II in a camp
> >> recently on a mob - 33% slowdown, 95% snare. Shocked the hell out of the
> >> group - "A rogue can do THAT?!?"
> >
> >Aye. Most people think rogues are just people who backstab a mob, then
> >needs chain-heals to stay alive :p
>
> Evade means rarely having to say you're sorry. ;-) I was invited to
> Bats/Bugs at level 40 in Sol B, where most mobs are even cons or so. So I
> started using a few poisons, to stay useful to the group - a few Lower
> Resists II on Stone Spider and Death Beetle, but mostly Injected II (41
> initial damage, 41 dam/tick for 5 ticks). My opening would be backstab,
> autoattack (poison procs here), Evade. I could usually get them off me,
> unless our crazy tank switched targets for the tenth time or backed up from
> a rooted mob yet again. Not that I'm bitter.
Part of the reason I picked a necro is because I hate relying on other
people to keep me alive. Each to their own though, some people love
grouping and killing stuff in dungeons and all that, which is fair
enough because imo, eq is what you make of it yourself.
> >I saw a screenshot of Reefman (60 rogue RZ, won server BotB and I think
> >came second at the finals) kill a warrior in 3 backstabs.
>
> If it's the screenshot I'm thinking of, he had the warrior sit, too.
> When someone's sitting the damage possible apparently goes up - max backstab
> observed on a fighting opponent is just over 1100, but on the sitting
> opponent with discipline activated the rogue in question landed a shot for
> over 1300 damage. And seeing as how casters med.....
Aye. If I'm medding and I get double backstabbed without the disc I will
be left on 350hp (based on my friend's 58 rogue bs'ing me for 650+ once
when I was medding).
> >> Add in the chance of double backstab, and letting a rogue behind
> >> you is just death.
> >
> >Very much so! It is very hard to avoid rogues in anything other than 1v1
> >confrontations though. And even then, I've gotta be strafing around and
> >shadowstepping a lot, meaning most of the fight is spent not casting.
>
> It's funny - most people say rogues stink in PvP. But what they really
> mean is rogues suck at duels, where everyone is prepared and there's room to
> move. I can just imagine the VERY quick feeling of horror a caster on a PvP
> server would get if he suddenly saw, "Rogue's muscles bulge with force of
> will." Followed by one or two damage messages and LOADING, PLEASE WAIT.
Keep in mind that rogues get owned fairly hard for most of their lives
though. Its really only in the high 50's that they start to become
ridiculously powerful.
> >> IF you know a rogue is coming (and
> >> that's the rub in all PvP, isn't it?) there's a few things you can do:
> >>
> >> 1) Get your back against a wall, and stay put. Backstab is a rogue's
> biggest
> >> weapon. Without it, he's pretty much a ranger with hide/sneak.
> >
> >Rogues don't scare me when I'm prepared. However if I get double
> >backstabbed out of nowhere, and lured by his friend, I'm dead. (keep in
> >mind the AC of a necro wearing resist gear is laughable..).
>
> Ah, INT-caster armour - is that a 1-ply or 2-ply robe? ;-)
:p
> >> 2) Get up Banshee Aura. As a cleric that has to heal rogues that go up
> >> against Banshee Aura'ed mobs, I can tell you that he'll be killing
> himself
> >> VERY quickly on this. If he stops attacking to try and dispel you, you
> get a
> >> chance to either re-cast the spell as he dispels (requires timing), or
> just
> >> get in a good DoT/Tap. If you have access to a damage shield potion from
> a
> >> shaman, you'll roll the rogue.
> >
> >I hate using specific buffs, esp. mid-fight, as they tend to fill my dot
> >slots...which can be a pain if a wandering druid decides I want to be
> >Winged Death'd.
>
> If you get attacked by a rogue AND someone else, though, isn't it time
> to cut losses and bail? Or are you able to take on superior numbers? In what
> little I've read about PvP, the usual strategy against numbers is to run and
> hope to split them up, just run, or have numbers of your own.
A lot of the time I don't know that initially. I was having a fight in
sro with a 54 wiz who actually knew what he was doing (used lures after
he realized IC didn't do any damage, clicked off all his buffs then
dispelled splurt and ignite blood after I filled his dot slot, kept
recasting manaskin to stop me from getting hp back from lifetaps), was
very fun until a druid decided to lay winged death on me, which combined
with the fact I was getting nuked for a little over 400 every 4 seconds
was taking a serious dent out of my hp. I bailed at that point
(shadowstep -> gate).
> >In a fight in an open area against a rogue, I'd have to say I'd cast
> >ignite blood, then splurt (both unresistable, but pumice-able).
>
> Splurt must be a tough cast in PvP. Good for the long fight, but if he
> can finish you fast he KNOWS he can Pumice it away before it does the bulk
> of the damage it'll do. Splurt-Shadow Step must be fun - if a PvP target is
> running around, does a DoT do 4/9ths damage? (Two thirds PvP rule, two
> thirds moving target)
This is always something I wondered. I have always been under the
impression that dot's last 2/3's on ALL pc's because that is how VI
decided to nerf dot's to 66%.
However I have killed people with just 1 cast of splurt. I was plvl'ing
a friends bard in OT, saw a full health mage with pet up so I rooted the
pet, splurted the mage and he gated to his bind point in zone. So I
waited, and waited, and waited....and on the last tick I got the slain
message. That particular mage learnt to dispell dots in every fight I've
seen him in since :p
> >By that
> >time the rogue has decided whether he is staying to fight, or is running
> >(most people choose to run). I can usually get a quick deflux in at that
> >point. I wouldn't fight a rogue that is ready for me though, the only
> >time I can reliably cast on a rogue/monk/ranger is when I get the jump.
>
> That's good to know, that multiple attacks can stop spellcasting with
> ease.
You'll want to use real low delay weaps though. Sk's and paladins are
easy to channel through, except for bash which is annoying.
Most rogues have low delay weaps anyway, their epic looks pretty quick.
> >If he stays to fight then I just strafe around to avoid melee while the
> >pet beats on him and dot's do damage. I usually use sow potions for the
> >speed advantage (*everyone* on RZ has jboots 50+, not sure if its the
> >same on blue servers),
>
> As a 59 cleric without them, I can personally disprove that everyone has
> them. :-/ But I despise camping items, so I'm likely the exception.
Sro is a battlezone on RZ. A druid port, a wizard port, and theres
always lotsa high levels camping the AC there. Also not many mobs that
will get in the way of a 50+ fight.
> >> Question: do pets on /guard here turn to face invisible opponents
> too,
> >> like a rogue with hide/sneak up?
> >
> >I actually have no idea about that. I never use /pet guard here, except
> >for exp'ing.
>
> /pet guard me is the standard, then?
Yep.
> >Pets are good range finders though. If you were in my zone I would type
> >"/pet attack James"
>
> /cry - what did I do to you! Oh, yeah - you're a PK, and I'm a bluebie
> sucka. ;-)
I've often wondered what it would be like to bet let lose on a blue
server with the same rules applying to me as RZ (ie can attacked anyone
within 4 levels, 1 item loot + coins). Can you say "pay day"? :p
> >and if you were in the level range (+/-4 levels on
> >RZ) then it will say nothing, but whenever you got inside its agro
> >radius it will attack you,
>
> How does it react to an invisible opponent? Do you need See Invis up?
> Does the opponent need up ITU or Invis to avoid an attack if you don't have
> a see invis effect (although with DMF, like you ever lack one).
Pet doesn't need see invis, and doesn't rely on you having it. If the
person is nearby the pet will go hit them and drop their invis, so you
can target the person. I always have dmf up (as well as about 6-7 other
buffs and 3 dot slots).
> >unless I give it other commands before that.
> >If you are not within the PvP range then the pet will say you aren't a
> >legal target.
> >
> >I use that to sort through potential attackers when I am exp'ing (as
> >doing /who every 5 seconds is second nature to me).
>
> VERY nice feature. Although you must begin to know the names of people
> as time goes by, and know to get ready when the usual suspects zone in.
Also, once a pet is agro'd on an in-range person in the zone, I can
/assist my pet and the person who the pet is agro on will be targetted.
Even though they are 10 minutes walk away. Good for if you know someone
is going to try to kill you soon, so you just stand there with pet
agro'd, hitting the first offense spell hotkey until they get in casting
range.
> >Anyway, rogues are very lethal 55+. PvP is a bit like "scissors paper
> >rock" though, there is no way to win *all* fights.
>
> It's good to hear that there's balance. When most people hear about PvP,
> it's the big three - WIZ, NEC, DRU - beating the heck out of everyone else.
> Nice to see that one class, or one small subset of classes, doesn't own
> everyone else.
There is class balance to an extent. If you are a persistant person, and
can handle being at a handy disadvantage in PvP for the first 55 levels,
then pick an SK or rogue.
Wizards are a competant pvp class from level 12, (shock of lightning
kills level 8 casters in 2 casts).
Necro's are a competant pvp class from level 12 also, (engulfing
darkness, heat blood, lifetap at that level).
Druids aren't anywhere near good until 19, and preferably 29. Their
snare line of spells is the least resisted of all movement debuffs, with
decent mr they will be resisted, but even with 70-80mr it sticks a lot.
Keep in mind most people wear all no-drop armour on PvP, so they rarely
have decent resists. (i have well over 100 in all resists, I have never
even max'd my int because I feel resists are more important).
James
Mutahq wrote in message <3B799CE3...@here.now>...
>James wrote:
>> Mutahq wrote in message <3B78EA5F...@here.now>...
>> >James wrote:
>
>> If you get attacked by a rogue AND someone else, though, isn't it
time
>> to cut losses and bail? Or are you able to take on superior numbers? In
what
>> little I've read about PvP, the usual strategy against numbers is to run
and
>> hope to split them up, just run, or have numbers of your own.
>
>A lot of the time I don't know that initially. I was having a fight in
>sro with a 54 wiz who actually knew what he was doing (used lures after
>he realized IC didn't do any damage, clicked off all his buffs then
>dispelled splurt and ignite blood after I filled his dot slot, kept
>recasting manaskin to stop me from getting hp back from lifetaps)
Do you keep Annul up at all times, and if so what stops you from
Annuling the Manaskin, then Defluxing?
>> That's good to know, that multiple attacks can stop spellcasting with
>> ease.
>
>You'll want to use real low delay weaps though. Sk's and paladins are
>easy to channel through, except for bash which is annoying.
>
>Most rogues have low delay weaps anyway, their epic looks pretty quick.
The epic itself is pretty slow, as rogue weapons go - 15/25. It's the
intrinsic haste on it that makes it seem fast. A common rogue weapon like
Tombcarver has a 17 delay. (A rogue fresh from a good trip to Kaesora would
come out with a 5/17 and a 7/20 weapon.)
>> >(*everyone* on RZ has jboots 50+, not sure if its the
>> >same on blue servers),
>>
>> As a 59 cleric without them, I can personally disprove that everyone
has
>> them. :-/ But I despise camping items, so I'm likely the exception.
>
>Sro is a battlezone on RZ. A druid port, a wizard port, and theres
>always lotsa high levels camping the AC there. Also not many mobs that
>will get in the way of a 50+ fight.
I've noticed in duels in Butcherblock, say, that snakes and bats will
attack people in a duel, even if those people are level 50. Seems to be
triggered by melee combat. Have you seen this on RZ - normally non-aggro
mobs jumping into a fight? With my "Go out, do the laundry, order a pizza,
come back before it finishes casting" cleric nuke, any add has a chance of
interrupting me.
>> >Pets are good range finders though. If you were in my zone I would type
>> >"/pet attack James"
>>
>> /cry - what did I do to you! Oh, yeah - you're a PK, and I'm a
bluebie
>> sucka. ;-)
>
>I've often wondered what it would be like to bet let lose on a blue
>server with the same rules applying to me as RZ (ie can attacked anyone
>within 4 levels, 1 item loot + coins). Can you say "pay day"? :p
Depends which of your characters you chose to play. You'd quickly find
that the average player level is higher than RZ, and the average gear level
would be better. Since zones are much more crowded, you'd also find more
people "adding" in fights. That having been said, though.... you'd find a
steady stream of tanks at all levels wearing little to no resist gear, and
mostly Kunark class armour. And in EC, well, they're nice enough to /auction
"WTS all on me at first torch, class X gear!" Get out the WIZ and ready
those AoEs. ;-)
>Keep in mind most people wear all no-drop armour on PvP, so they rarely
>have decent resists.
Another thing you'd need to deal with on a server like mine, at your
level: MANY more epic-equipped and Velious-equipped folks, meaning higher
resist levels for people that are in No Drop gear. Epics alone are 50 points
of resists - that's like a Blue Diamond piece that can't be looted after
death.
James
Mutahq
James wrote:
>
> Mutahq wrote in message <3B799CE3...@here.now>...
> >James wrote:
> >> Mutahq wrote in message <3B78EA5F...@here.now>...
> >> >James wrote:
> >
>
> >> If you get attacked by a rogue AND someone else, though, isn't it
> time
> >> to cut losses and bail? Or are you able to take on superior numbers? In
> what
> >> little I've read about PvP, the usual strategy against numbers is to run
> and
> >> hope to split them up, just run, or have numbers of your own.
> >
> >A lot of the time I don't know that initially. I was having a fight in
> >sro with a 54 wiz who actually knew what he was doing (used lures after
> >he realized IC didn't do any damage, clicked off all his buffs then
> >dispelled splurt and ignite blood after I filled his dot slot, kept
> >recasting manaskin to stop me from getting hp back from lifetaps)
>
> Do you keep Annul up at all times, and if so what stops you from
> Annuling the Manaskin, then Defluxing?
I use pumices, they dont use mana, dont have recast delay, and leave a
spell slot free.
I didn't actually see the wiz recast manaskin the first time but noticed
it was on when my health started dropping rapidly and not going back up
again.
After he put it on again, I ran past my rooted pet and he followed a bit
out of casting range behind me, I pumiced the root off my pet so it
moved 1 metres and belted him. Was going to pumice at that point but I
saw a druid start casting, so I ran. Druid followed, and layed winged
death on me as I gated away (druids cant interupt). Easily pumiced when
I got back to my bind point.
> >> That's good to know, that multiple attacks can stop spellcasting with
> >> ease.
> >
> >You'll want to use real low delay weaps though. Sk's and paladins are
> >easy to channel through, except for bash which is annoying.
> >
> >Most rogues have low delay weaps anyway, their epic looks pretty quick.
>
> The epic itself is pretty slow, as rogue weapons go - 15/25. It's the
> intrinsic haste on it that makes it seem fast. A common rogue weapon like
> Tombcarver has a 17 delay. (A rogue fresh from a good trip to Kaesora would
> come out with a 5/17 and a 7/20 weapon.)
Well even a 25dly weap is fast to me when the person has all those funky
haste effects.
> >> >(*everyone* on RZ has jboots 50+, not sure if its the
> >> >same on blue servers),
> >>
> >> As a 59 cleric without them, I can personally disprove that everyone
> has
> >> them. :-/ But I despise camping items, so I'm likely the exception.
> >
> >Sro is a battlezone on RZ. A druid port, a wizard port, and theres
> >always lotsa high levels camping the AC there. Also not many mobs that
> >will get in the way of a 50+ fight.
>
> I've noticed in duels in Butcherblock, say, that snakes and bats will
> attack people in a duel, even if those people are level 50. Seems to be
> triggered by melee combat. Have you seen this on RZ - normally non-aggro
> mobs jumping into a fight? With my "Go out, do the laundry, order a pizza,
> come back before it finishes casting" cleric nuke, any add has a chance of
> interrupting me.
For some reason low level snakes and spiders do that, havent noticed any
other mobs that agro only upon pvp being initiated though.
And I wouldn't be worried about them interupting you, at 50+ a hit for 1
or 2 by a snake shouldn't beat your channeling.
> >> >Pets are good range finders though. If you were in my zone I would type
> >> >"/pet attack James"
> >>
> >> /cry - what did I do to you! Oh, yeah - you're a PK, and I'm a
> bluebie
> >> sucka. ;-)
> >
> >I've often wondered what it would be like to bet let lose on a blue
> >server with the same rules applying to me as RZ (ie can attacked anyone
> >within 4 levels, 1 item loot + coins). Can you say "pay day"? :p
>
> Depends which of your characters you chose to play. You'd quickly find
> that the average player level is higher than RZ, and the average gear level
> would be better. Since zones are much more crowded, you'd also find more
> people "adding" in fights. That having been said, though.... you'd find a
> steady stream of tanks at all levels wearing little to no resist gear, and
> mostly Kunark class armour. And in EC, well, they're nice enough to /auction
> "WTS all on me at first torch, class X gear!" Get out the WIZ and ready
> those AoEs. ;-)
A lvl52 wiz friend of mine drops people quite often by doing this...
See person medding, cast tears of druzzil, cast lure of frost, loot
person. I only ever saw one person who stood under the tears, tried to
gate and actually got away (a high elf cleric in neriak). That tactic
just preys on people who are set on autopilot once PvP is initiated, ie
they auto-heal or auto-gate as soon as they take any damage.
This really only works on casters though, melee's generally don't try to
self-heal (except paladins and maybe rangers) and definetly don't try to
gate :p (not to mention their hp's at that level are ridiculous).
> >Keep in mind most people wear all no-drop armour on PvP, so they rarely
> >have decent resists.
>
> Another thing you'd need to deal with on a server like mine, at your
> level: MANY more epic-equipped and Velious-equipped folks, meaning higher
> resist levels for people that are in No Drop gear. Epics alone are 50 points
> of resists - that's like a Blue Diamond piece that can't be looted after
> death.
I see what you are saying. However you are looking at gear-wearing
people on rz having 120+ in the important resists (mr/fr/cr) self-buffed
at least. And for the small minority that wears real nice resist stuff,
150+mr and 200+cr/fr. I'm guessing most high level people are running
around in full sets of velious armour? Which generally have shit for
resists except for the bp's/robes. Generally on rz you'll find people
running around with all nodrop, which has virtually nothing for resists
when combined (sup level 58 wizard who looks like they just spawned for
the first time outside neriak because they havent got a nodropvelious
robe yet...), or they'll have everything based around resists. I never
max'd the int on my necro because imo resists take priority over int.
Anyway, thats only a small part of it. I'm more talking about skill
level, how prepped people are etc...I'm not quite sure how a level 54
enchanter would react if they got jumped RZ-style by a necro or a
wizard. Also another thing, high level caster vs caster pvp is usually
VERY fast, esp when involving wizards. Like <4 casts and the fight is
over by then usually. And if the person has little in the way of
resists, jump them with ice comet then follow with a jboot-casted
draught. And believe me that happens a lot, I saw another level 52
wizard pk I know waste a mage and an enchanter in 5 casts all up. They
were just naked shit-talkers, so he snuck up, Ic'd the mage, followed by
draught, dead mage...the chanter was trying to mez the wiz, but the wiz
was wearing gear. 3 draughts later enchanter dead too :p
James
Mutahq wrote in message <3B7BC993...@here.now>...
>James wrote:
>
>> I've noticed in duels in Butcherblock, say, that snakes and bats will
>> attack people in a duel, even if those people are level 50. Seems to be
>> triggered by melee combat. Have you seen this on RZ - normally non-aggro
>> mobs jumping into a fight? With my "Go out, do the laundry, order a
pizza,
>> come back before it finishes casting" cleric nuke, any add has a chance
of
>> interrupting me.
>
>For some reason low level snakes and spiders do that, havent noticed any
>other mobs that agro only upon pvp being initiated though.
>
>And I wouldn't be worried about them interupting you, at 50+ a hit for 1
>or 2 by a snake shouldn't beat your channeling.
I've had Orc Centurions interrupt me. :-( Why even have Chanelling 218,
if it doesn't mean anything? And when mobs take a few swings, I Dodge once
and the others outright miss, and I STILL get interrupted....
>> Depends which of your characters you chose to play. You'd quickly
find
>> that the average player level is higher than RZ, and the average gear
level
>> would be better. Since zones are much more crowded, you'd also find more
>> people "adding" in fights. That having been said, though.... you'd find a
>> steady stream of tanks at all levels wearing little to no resist gear,
and
>> mostly Kunark class armour. And in EC, well, they're nice enough to
/auction
>> "WTS all on me at first torch, class X gear!" Get out the WIZ and ready
>> those AoEs. ;-)
>
>A lvl52 wiz friend of mine drops people quite often by doing this...
>
>See person medding, cast tears of druzzil, cast lure of frost, loot
>person.
Anyone who stands under 1800 points of damage (1200 on PvP) is nuts. I
don't care if it DOES interrupt your spell to move, move. Making a wizard
spend 380 mana for 400 damage less resists (post reduction to 2/3rds) is a
good way to beat a wizard. And as an aside - with what few buffs I always
keep up as a cleric, I have 2200 HPs. Unless he does more than what you
list, he won't catch a cleric - we have too many HPs to die before the Gate
goes off.
>I only ever saw one person who stood under the tears, tried to
>gate and actually got away (a high elf cleric in neriak). That tactic
>just preys on people who are set on autopilot once PvP is initiated, ie
>they auto-heal or auto-gate as soon as they take any damage.
Unless that auto-gate is a Cazic Gate potion, or the auto-heal is
actually Divine Aura/etc., it will fail.
>> >Keep in mind most people wear all no-drop armour on PvP, so they rarely
>> >have decent resists.
>>
>> Another thing you'd need to deal with on a server like mine, at your
>> level: MANY more epic-equipped and Velious-equipped folks, meaning higher
>> resist levels for people that are in No Drop gear. Epics alone are 50
points
>> of resists - that's like a Blue Diamond piece that can't be looted after
>> death.
>
>I see what you are saying. However you are looking at gear-wearing
>people on rz having 120+ in the important resists (mr/fr/cr) self-buffed
>at least.
That's an important point - you'd catch a LOT of casters without full
resist buffs up. Every screen I've seen of RZ the casters have a full set of
Resists up, whatever they can cast.
> And for the small minority that wears real nice resist stuff,
>150+mr and 200+cr/fr. I'm guessing most high level people are running
>around in full sets of velious armour?
Kael gear, with PoG to fill holes, ayup.
>Anyway, thats only a small part of it. I'm more talking about skill
>level, how prepped people are etc...I'm not quite sure how a level 54
>enchanter would react if they got jumped RZ-style by a necro or a
>wizard.
If it was known that PvP could happen, I imagine it would look something
like this: ENCH gets cast on. ENCH runs ASAP to nearest zone, pulls plug.
Logs on alt, tells guild name and last location of attacker, guild attack
party sent out ASAP to kill "evil PvP monster". Note that as ENCH runs, he'd
be /shouting about what you're doing, prompting a wave of anti-PKs
(otherwise known as blue players) in the zone in question to rush to his
aid. Unless nobody liked the ENCH. ;-)
James
ryouseika
jamesg...@home.com says...
>
> Mutahq wrote in message <3B7BC993...@here.now>...
> >James wrote:
> >
> >> I've noticed in duels in Butcherblock, say, that snakes and bats will
> >> attack people in a duel, even if those people are level 50. Seems to be
> >> triggered by melee combat. Have you seen this on RZ - normally non-aggro
> >> mobs jumping into a fight? With my "Go out, do the laundry, order a
> pizza,
> >> come back before it finishes casting" cleric nuke, any add has a chance
> of
> >> interrupting me.
> >
> >For some reason low level snakes and spiders do that, havent noticed any
> >other mobs that agro only upon pvp being initiated though.
> >
> >And I wouldn't be worried about them interupting you, at 50+ a hit for 1
> >or 2 by a snake shouldn't beat your channeling.
>
> I've had Orc Centurions interrupt me. :-( Why even have Chanelling 218,
> if it doesn't mean anything? And when mobs take a few swings, I Dodge once
> and the others outright miss, and I STILL get interrupted....
That's strange - I threw a LOT of points into 'channel' with my
sha(wo?)man - but she's still only at 100. Yet she can channel through
hits most of the time now.
--
Lelilali
19th level shaman
14th level mage
8th level ranger
9th level shadowknight
Tarrew Marr
James
ryouseika wrote in message ...
>jamesg...@home.com says...
>>
>> I've had Orc Centurions interrupt me. :-( Why even have Chanelling
218,
>> if it doesn't mean anything? And when mobs take a few swings, I Dodge
once
>> and the others outright miss, and I STILL get interrupted....
>
>That's strange - I threw a LOT of points into 'channel' with my
>sha(wo?)man - but she's still only at 100. Yet she can channel through
>hits most of the time now.
My nuke takes seven seconds to cast - a TON of time for something to
physically move me with a hit. Being moved, I imagine, is what's
interrupting me - so the damage from the hit almost doesn't matter. I'm
guessing your spell doesn't take seven seconds to cast. ;-) My other
operating theory is that a successful Dodge causes a Channel check - I'm
sure I'm not the only one that's been standing toe-to-toe with a mob,
started to cast, had it miss EVERY time, and still been interrupted at the
end of the cast.
James
Richard
news:3aXe7.48372$uM6.6...@news1.telusplanet.net...
I don't recall having had that happen to me when mob missed every time, but
I can't say that I have paid much attention to that, all I cared about was
whether it was interrupted or no. My channeling is maxed for my level, or
very close to it, I still have interruptions many many times when I am being
hit. That would be with my Shaman, casting both fast and slow spells. I
also often successfully cast while being hit, but I sure can't count on it..
I've only had an interruption problem with my warrior once, attempting to
quaff a SoW potion, only had to try it once while being hit.
--
Graeme, Barbarian Shaman of 32 seasons, Erollisi Marr
Tainneal, Halfling Warrior of 22 seasons, Erollisi Marr
Mutahq
James wrote:
>
> Mutahq wrote in message <3B7BC993...@here.now>...
> >James wrote:
> >
> >> I've noticed in duels in Butcherblock, say, that snakes and bats will
> >> attack people in a duel, even if those people are level 50. Seems to be
> >> triggered by melee combat. Have you seen this on RZ - normally non-aggro
> >> mobs jumping into a fight? With my "Go out, do the laundry, order a
> pizza,
> >> come back before it finishes casting" cleric nuke, any add has a chance
> of
> >> interrupting me.
> >
> >For some reason low level snakes and spiders do that, havent noticed any
> >other mobs that agro only upon pvp being initiated though.
> >
> >And I wouldn't be worried about them interupting you, at 50+ a hit for 1
> >or 2 by a snake shouldn't beat your channeling.
>
> I've had Orc Centurions interrupt me. :-( Why even have Chanelling 218,
> if it doesn't mean anything? And when mobs take a few swings, I Dodge once
> and the others outright miss, and I STILL get interrupted....
That really is odd. I've never really seen anyone have trouble with orcs
and the such (except at level 12..)
> >> Depends which of your characters you chose to play. You'd quickly
> find
> >> that the average player level is higher than RZ, and the average gear
> level
> >> would be better. Since zones are much more crowded, you'd also find more
> >> people "adding" in fights. That having been said, though.... you'd find a
> >> steady stream of tanks at all levels wearing little to no resist gear,
> and
> >> mostly Kunark class armour. And in EC, well, they're nice enough to
> /auction
> >> "WTS all on me at first torch, class X gear!" Get out the WIZ and ready
> >> those AoEs. ;-)
> >
> >A lvl52 wiz friend of mine drops people quite often by doing this...
> >
> >See person medding, cast tears of druzzil, cast lure of frost, loot
> >person.
>
> Anyone who stands under 1800 points of damage (1200 on PvP) is nuts. I
> don't care if it DOES interrupt your spell to move, move. Making a wizard
> spend 380 mana for 400 damage less resists (post reduction to 2/3rds) is a
> good way to beat a wizard. And as an aside - with what few buffs I always
> keep up as a cleric, I have 2200 HPs. Unless he does more than what you
> list, he won't catch a cleric - we have too many HPs to die before the Gate
> goes off.
Like I said, it preys on people stupidity. Sometimes they aren't buffed,
a lot of the time they arent wearing any gear etc...
> >I only ever saw one person who stood under the tears, tried to
> >gate and actually got away (a high elf cleric in neriak). That tactic
> >just preys on people who are set on autopilot once PvP is initiated, ie
> >they auto-heal or auto-gate as soon as they take any damage.
>
> Unless that auto-gate is a Cazic Gate potion, or the auto-heal is
> actually Divine Aura/etc., it will fail.
Of course theres ways around it. Don't forget, conflag wands are used
quite a bit too. The second last time I died on my necro was in GD while
I was farming CoV faction. I was lagging and died to a frost giant
elite, I went to loot my corpse but didn't buff up before I looted. I
don't have enough space in my bags to bag my gear so it was all on me. I
stood up from looting my corpse and saw a 60 necro sitting there (out of
range to me), I inspected him and in his rear view inv screen I saw a
caster casting something. Caught an IC, 130dmg, then draught, 200dmg,
then two charges of a flag wand which did 360dmg and 280dmg. I did try
to gate but it collapsed (arg), and shadowstep didn't register as I was
lagging.
I guess I felt safe being way out of the way of people, let my guard
down, and as such lost gear :p
> >> >Keep in mind most people wear all no-drop armour on PvP, so they rarely
> >> >have decent resists.
> >>
> >> Another thing you'd need to deal with on a server like mine, at your
> >> level: MANY more epic-equipped and Velious-equipped folks, meaning higher
> >> resist levels for people that are in No Drop gear. Epics alone are 50
> points
> >> of resists - that's like a Blue Diamond piece that can't be looted after
> >> death.
> >
> >I see what you are saying. However you are looking at gear-wearing
> >people on rz having 120+ in the important resists (mr/fr/cr) self-buffed
> >at least.
>
> That's an important point - you'd catch a LOT of casters without full
> resist buffs up. Every screen I've seen of RZ the casters have a full set of
> Resists up, whatever they can cast.
Yep on RZ I always keep a full set of buffs up.
> > And for the small minority that wears real nice resist stuff,
> >150+mr and 200+cr/fr. I'm guessing most high level people are running
> >around in full sets of velious armour?
>
> Kael gear, with PoG to fill holes, ayup.
Ahh the gear I'll never get to wear :p
> >Anyway, thats only a small part of it. I'm more talking about skill
> >level, how prepped people are etc...I'm not quite sure how a level 54
> >enchanter would react if they got jumped RZ-style by a necro or a
> >wizard.
>
> If it was known that PvP could happen, I imagine it would look something
> like this: ENCH gets cast on. ENCH runs ASAP to nearest zone, pulls plug.
> Logs on alt, tells guild name and last location of attacker, guild attack
> party sent out ASAP to kill "evil PvP monster". Note that as ENCH runs, he'd
> be /shouting about what you're doing, prompting a wave of anti-PKs
> (otherwise known as blue players) in the zone in question to rush to his
> aid. Unless nobody liked the ENCH. ;-)
I've gotta say, its surprisingly hard to kill someone who doesn't want
to die. That was the point I was trying to make to "rick" in this
thread.
btw do people on blue servers even keep gate memmed in a permanent slot?
I've seen screenshots of various random blue peoples spell sets and I
see most tend not to have any gate type spell memmed. Thats something
that is quite a disadvantage while exp'ing on RZ, I essentially have to
keep 3 slots filled with exp-useless spells so i don't get my gear
ganked (harmshield, gate, shadowstep).
Lee Maneman
> >level, how prepped people are etc...I'm not quite sure how a level 54
> >enchanter would react if they got jumped RZ-style by a necro or a
> >wizard.
>
> If it was known that PvP could happen, I imagine it would look
something
> like this: ENCH gets cast on. ENCH runs ASAP to nearest zone, pulls plug.
> Logs on alt, tells guild name and last location of attacker, guild attack
> party sent out ASAP to kill "evil PvP monster". Note that as ENCH runs,
he'd
> be /shouting about what you're doing, prompting a wave of anti-PKs
> (otherwise known as blue players) in the zone in question to rush to his
> aid. Unless nobody liked the ENCH. ;-)
>
> James
The way it usually plays between me (enchanter) and a wizard is their first
dd takes down my rune and does a goodly amount of damage besides. I'm
usually fast enough to get a tash off and start casting a mez before I get
hit by a second dd. Sometimes I get hit only once before the mez hits,
sometimes twice. Since I wear charisma gear (so what if my electrum star
ruby ring gets ganked? I'll make another, 70 plat) a mez will usually stick
on a tashed opponent first try, unless they have very high MR in the first
place. If I'm having problems mezzing I sometimes try to pillage
enchantment, but that's kind of slow and might not be the best idea against
a skilled wizzie. A couple mezzes almost always do the trick though. Once
a mez is on, it's a whole different ballgame. ToT and mana seive to your
hearts content. Then break the mez with a pillage, throw a slightly quicker
dd (say anarchy), remez. Seive some more, sit down and med a bit... Recast
rune on myself, laugh at my victim. wait for ToT to refresh. Once it does,
ToT, dd, mez, dd, mez, etc etc...
Against a necro it's much more difficult. If they have a pet up, then I'm
probably going to be dooomed by dots by the time I can get the pet mezzed.
After that it's simple to get the necro mezzed (unless they've dotted
themselves in which case it's color stun and run like crazy until the dots
kill me). If the necro was petless or I was fast enough on mezzing them
both, I may have a chance to survive in which case it comes down to the
exact same thing.. Drain all mana, dispell, lock down, and destroy...
L51 Enchanter..
..anti-pk on RZ..
James
Mutahq wrote in message <3B7C5C29...@here.now>...
>James wrote:
>> Mutahq wrote in message <3B7BC993...@here.now>...
>> >
>> >or 2 by a snake shouldn't beat your channeling.
>>
>> I've had Orc Centurions interrupt me. :-( Why even have Chanelling
218,
>> if it doesn't mean anything? And when mobs take a few swings, I Dodge
once
>> and the others outright miss, and I STILL get interrupted....
>
>That really is odd. I've never really seen anyone have trouble with orcs
>and the such (except at level 12..)
Remember, I have a seven second casting time on my main nuke. When I use
a lower casting time spell, like Sound of Force, IT gets off no problem. But
my main nuke can be interrupted by a good breeze.
>Of course theres ways around it. Don't forget, conflag wands are used
>quite a bit too.
Never seen one of these. Insta-cast right click item?
>> >Anyway, thats only a small part of it. I'm more talking about skill
>> >level, how prepped people are etc...I'm not quite sure how a level 54
>> >enchanter would react if they got jumped RZ-style by a necro or a
>> >wizard.
>>
>> If it was known that PvP could happen, I imagine it would look
something
>> like this: ENCH gets cast on. ENCH runs ASAP to nearest zone, pulls plug.
>> Logs on alt, tells guild name and last location of attacker, guild attack
>> party sent out ASAP to kill "evil PvP monster". Note that as ENCH runs,
he'd
>> be /shouting about what you're doing, prompting a wave of anti-PKs
>> (otherwise known as blue players) in the zone in question to rush to his
>> aid. Unless nobody liked the ENCH. ;-)
>
>I've gotta say, its surprisingly hard to kill someone who doesn't want
>to die. That was the point I was trying to make to "rick" in this
>thread.
>
>btw do people on blue servers even keep gate memmed in a permanent slot?
This one does. Most people I know keep Gate up unless they have another
escape route (Feign, they are the evaccer) or are grouped and desperately
need the spell slot.
>I've seen screenshots of various random blue peoples spell sets and I
>see most tend not to have any gate type spell memmed.
Again, depends on the situation. I imagine a soloing Necro would have
Feign up, maybe Harmshield outdoors / Gate indoors. When I look at my low
level characters' spell lists, none of them have Gate - but they're all in
well-known areas with a "quick" way to a zone.
>Thats something
>that is quite a disadvantage while exp'ing on RZ, I essentially have to
>keep 3 slots filled with exp-useless spells so i don't get my gear
>ganked (harmshield, gate, shadowstep).
About the only one you wouldn't see on a blue server is Shadowstep,
because it frequently doesn't help against a mob.
James
Halfpole
Mutahq <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
>
>
> [snip]
> btw do people on blue servers even keep gate memmed in a permanent slot?
> I've seen screenshots of various random blue peoples spell sets and I
> see most tend not to have any gate type spell memmed. Thats something
> that is quite a disadvantage while exp'ing on RZ, I essentially have to
> keep 3 slots filled with exp-useless spells so i don't get my gear
> ganked (harmshield, gate, shadowstep).
If I'm playing on a Blue server, and I'm soloing, yes...I always have Gate
up. Comes from my days of trying to solo xp a cleric. :-).
If I'm in a group, I'll still have it memmed half of the time -- just out of
habit. If I'm bound in the same zone in a blue server, Gate isn't that
necessary. Don't have to worry about Shralok Orcs from Kithicor sneaking
over to the Goblin Rooms in HHK simply for the purpose of hunting YOU, no
matter how bad your faction is. :-)
Richard
news:3B7C5C29...@here.now...
<snip>
> btw do people on blue servers even keep gate memmed in a permanent slot?
> I've seen screenshots of various random blue peoples spell sets and I
> see most tend not to have any gate type spell memmed. Thats something
> that is quite a disadvantage while exp'ing on RZ, I essentially have to
> keep 3 slots filled with exp-useless spells so i don't get my gear
> ganked (harmshield, gate, shadowstep).
I almost never keep gate memmed, I just can't afford the spell slot for it.
I do consider memming it if I am in a pickup group, particularly if I start
to feel uncomfortable about the group.
Mutahq
Enchanters aren't all that good at solo PvP, but are *extremely* useful
when grouped with almost any other class.
Also, anyone can self-dot themselves by using a Crimson Potion (bought
at the potion vendor in almost any city). It gives a 50hp boost and
slowly ticks it off over several minutes, hence the dot effect. It has
no cast time. All my chars keep one, as soon as I get tash'd I activate
it, so unless a chanter manages to mez me out of nowhere against my
115mr, its a bit hard.
Overall, enchanters are easy for someone wearing gear to overcome solo,
but an enchanter grouped with another class (esp. a wizard) is very
potent indeed. Imo that is :p
Mutahq
James wrote:
>
> >Of course theres ways around it. Don't forget, conflag wands are used
> >quite a bit too.
>
> Never seen one of these. Insta-cast right click item?
3 charges of 0.0 cast time Conflagration, Lore item, drops in Hate I
think, wizard only. Conflagration is a 380-390damage (in pvp) fire-based
dd. For whatever reason, it seems to have a different resistance check
or something, as every time I get flag wanded it does 80%-100% of its
maximum possible damage, whereas draught of fire or ordinary
conflagration from the same person will be far more random (anywhere
from 5%-100%).
> >I've seen screenshots of various random blue peoples spell sets and I
> >see most tend not to have any gate type spell memmed.
>
> Again, depends on the situation. I imagine a soloing Necro would have
> Feign up, maybe Harmshield outdoors / Gate indoors. When I look at my low
> level characters' spell lists, none of them have Gate - but they're all in
> well-known areas with a "quick" way to a zone.
>
> >Thats something
> >that is quite a disadvantage while exp'ing on RZ, I essentially have to
> >keep 3 slots filled with exp-useless spells so i don't get my gear
> >ganked (harmshield, gate, shadowstep).
>
> About the only one you wouldn't see on a blue server is Shadowstep,
> because it frequently doesn't help against a mob.
After reading the replies, it seems people do have gate up on blue
servers quite a bit more than I expected. Hey, you learn something every
day! :p
Lee Maneman
> when grouped with almost any other class.
One on one it really depends alot on the MR of the person the enchanter is
fighting. If you are wearing MR gear (a very popular item for a play to
loot off a vanquished foe's corpse) then yes, you can really screw an
enchanter up fast since virtually all enchanter spells are magic based.
But, not all pks wear resist gear, and those that do are often wearing
resist gear at the expense of excellent PvE gear, so it all balances out in
a way.
> Also, anyone can self-dot themselves by using a Crimson Potion (bought
> at the potion vendor in almost any city). It gives a 50hp boost and
> slowly ticks it off over several minutes, hence the dot effect. It has
> no cast time. All my chars keep one, as soon as I get tash'd I activate
> it, so unless a chanter manages to mez me out of nowhere against my
> 115mr, its a bit hard.
I haven't tested this to be certain, but I'll lay odds that that effect is
easily dispelled with a pillage enchantment, which does I'll admit eat up
precious time, but still. Necros and sk's, however, can put dots on that
aren't dispellable, disease or poison based. This is much more difficult to
overcome. As I noted, Necros aren't my favorite opponent, not at all..
Mutahq
Lee Maneman wrote:
>
> > Enchanters aren't all that good at solo PvP, but are *extremely* useful
> > when grouped with almost any other class.
>
> One on one it really depends alot on the MR of the person the enchanter is
> fighting. If you are wearing MR gear (a very popular item for a play to
> loot off a vanquished foe's corpse) then yes, you can really screw an
> enchanter up fast since virtually all enchanter spells are magic based.
> But, not all pks wear resist gear, and those that do are often wearing
> resist gear at the expense of excellent PvE gear, so it all balances out in
> a way.
Thats true, I guess I'm talking more from the perspective of a pk (whos
aim is to kill the target), not non-pk (whos aim is usually just to
live).
Other pk's are usually the easiest to kill I've found, most don't wear
gear, and they tend not to gate at the first sign they could lose.
And yes, I wear resist gear at the expense of all over stats, my wizards
int is 161, but has 76pr, 109mr, 97dr, 126fr, 126cr...and I still havent
finished getting all the gear I need.
> > Also, anyone can self-dot themselves by using a Crimson Potion (bought
> > at the potion vendor in almost any city). It gives a 50hp boost and
> > slowly ticks it off over several minutes, hence the dot effect. It has
> > no cast time. All my chars keep one, as soon as I get tash'd I activate
> > it, so unless a chanter manages to mez me out of nowhere against my
> > 115mr, its a bit hard.
>
> I haven't tested this to be certain, but I'll lay odds that that effect is
> easily dispelled with a pillage enchantment, which does I'll admit eat up
> precious time, but still.
I don't rememeber it ever being dispelled, and the effect has the
disease icon. Worth testing sometime though.
> Necros and sk's, however, can put dots on that
> aren't dispellable, disease or poison based. This is much more difficult to
> overcome. As I noted, Necros aren't my favorite opponent, not at all..
Necro's aren't anyones favourite :p
Lee Maneman
> gear, and they tend not to gate at the first sign they could lose.
>
> And yes, I wear resist gear at the expense of all over stats, my wizards
> int is 161, but has 76pr, 109mr, 97dr, 126fr, 126cr...and I still havent
> finished getting all the gear I need.
Personally I wear a combination of no-drop and easily replaced jewelry that
gives me about 160 int and 185 charisma, and I fight back against pks (and
sometimes actively hunt them) and don't run unless it's obvious I'm in a
losing situation for some reason or another. With 185 charisma I have a
good chance of getting a mez off against anyone who isn't primarily focusing
on MR gear, and of course, the mez is the key to victory. The whole dynamic
changes when you have 90 seconds to do with your opponent as you please
short of actual damage. But, alas... No mez, and I'm probably screwed.
Such is life!
dneal1
wrote in message news:997476395.21965.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> BONDA170 <bond...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20010808161517...@mb-mm.aol.com...
> <snip>
> > Why dont you play on Rallos? Too scared of losing your Ph4t L3wt?
>
> Because item loot _discourages_ PvP, as most people tend to bag and
> run/gate/whatever first rather than fight back.
>
No, what discourages PvP is that it's so lopsided. It's not PvP, it's
either PvPPPP or pvP. I would happily stand my ground and fight -- most of
the time -- against an opponent or a group that I think I've got a 50%
chance of beating. I will run/gate/whatever rather than fight a whole gang
of blue/white-cons or one opponent fifteen levels higher than I am. If I am
obviously outmatched, I will attempt to escape. It's that simple. And
since I'm very likely going to die trying to get away, what difference does
it make to you whether I stand or run? You still get the kill.
>
> --
> Simond
> AKA
> Itzena Alhazared, Eru SK, Ronin, Vallon Zek.
> A bunch of other characters on VZ as well.
>
>
David Stephenson
wrote:
Yeah I kinda agree, most pvp in games like this is ganking or a person
just runs if they can if they know they will lose. It is in no way
equal as most of the people who predatorily pvp are going to get you
when you are weak, almost dead from killing creatures, etc.
I really doubt if very much PVP at all on the pvp servers occurs with
two equally matched players approaching and going "I challenge you
sir!" "And I you, let us begin!" Mostly because 2 people saying and
doing that would then be set upon by six "thugs" who would say "har
har u sux fags!" The whole thing ends up looking pointless to me.
I really would only play on a pvp server if it was balanced, if you
got the same xp from killing a player as a mob so it had a point, if
you lost no xp from dying, if you could be fully looted but the game
was more of a skills based character builder so that the items were
not that fantastic so you could stand to lose them (Kind of an EQ sort
of but with UO type loot) Essentially I'd want there to not be much
difference at all in killing a pc or an npc. The problem with MAINLY
PVE games which then try to "stick on" pvp is that it is really
exactly that, stuck on and pointless.
Now, have 100 people over here and 150 people over here as newbies
like say around freeport, the commons and neriak, and have them get as
good or better xp for killing each other as you would on newbie mobs..
and then you'd have something. You'd have a purpose, a point, and a
choice.
>Simond says put your hands in the air <sim...@apocalypsecow.demon.co.uk>
>wrote in message news:997476395.21965.0...@news.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> BONDA170 <bond...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:20010808161517...@mb-mm.aol.com...
>> <snip>
>> > Why dont you play on Rallos? Too scared of losing your Ph4t L3wt?
>>
>> Because item loot _discourages_ PvP, as most people tend to bag and
>> run/gate/whatever first rather than fight back.
>>
>
>No, what discourages PvP is that it's so lopsided. It's not PvP, it's
>either PvPPPP or pvP. I would happily stand my ground and fight -- most of
>the time -- against an opponent or a group that I think I've got a 50%
>chance of beating. I will run/gate/whatever rather than fight a whole gang
>of blue/white-cons or one opponent fifteen levels higher than I am. If I am
>obviously outmatched, I will attempt to escape. It's that simple. And
>since I'm very likely going to die trying to get away, what difference does
>it make to you whether I stand or run? You still get the kill.
>
dneal1
"Mutahq" <too_s...@here.now> wrote in message
> However, thats my opinion. Its plainly obvious that other people enjoy
> blue servers and the generally non-competitive atmosphere they have, and
> its not my business to tell them what server is "better". I suggest you
> just stick to playing PvP and leave all the bluebies to do the things
> they enjoy.
Non-competitive?? There are entire categories of PvP competition (indeed,
all categories except one: PKing) that take place on blue servers. Who
first manages to solo that mob none of the group has seen before? Who's the
first to get a sweet magic item? Who really shines because they've figured
out the nuances of their class? Who's got the best story to tell of how
they barely survived because of quick wits or sheer luck? I find the slow
grind of advancement is an excellent contest in itself. Trying to keep up
with my friends' characters when I usually have about a quarter their
/played time is quite a challenge, believe you me. There is tons of PvP
action on blue servers, it just happens without killing. People who are
competitive AND have serious blood thirst play red servers and like it.
People who are merely competitive play blue servers and like it. Both offer
competition; the red servers merely remove most aspects of subtlety from the
contest.
> The only time I really complain about "bluebies" is when they DO come to
> a PvP server and their expectations arent met. Of course PvP isnt fair
I, for one, am nowhere near stupid enough to believe that total PvP even
approaches fairness. That's the main reason I don't care for it in games
like EverQuest. The discussion about fairness has been done to death and I
won't repeat it. Some people like the bushwack mentality and others don't.
Nobody's right or wrong. I actually love PvP, but I'm more apt to play
Half-Life. In that game, I give no ground, victimize whenever possible, and
never give a sucker an even break. If someone doesn't know how to play, all
it means is that I kill him more. Most of the time, shooting a
disadvantaged foe in the back repeatedly is where kills come from, and I
know I'm decent at doing that since I'm usually about second place on the
scoreboard. It is simply my personal preference to keep my PvP -- Quake,
Starcraft, Half-Life -- separate from my non -- EQ.
D