Growing frustration
Kenthadeus Soulbryte
would like to poll the group for their oppinions on the matter. Please try
and keep the responses geared towards the comments WRT (with respect to) the
game and not how I should go find something else to play and /or quit. I
enjoy the EQ community and love seeing improvements in the game.
"The Vision" was to make the game more enjoyable/playable to groups vice
solo. The maximum single group size is six. The game has been expanded
disproportionately to REQUIRE (at 50+) groups larger than six. Does this
make sense? It forces the higher end characters to join guilds in order to
play. I have followed "The Vision" in grouping through to my current level
(almost 55) but there are few places for a [single] group to actually hunt.
There needs to be more [new] content geared for the 45-55 crowd (maybe even
higher, but im not there yet) that is huntable by a SINGLE group. It doesnt
have to include uber loot drops, but there needs to be a larger selection of
zones available in this level range. On a side note there seems to be a
MAJOR equipment gap in this range as well. (Unless you belong to a larger
guild). One solution might be making the max group size eight? (There
seems to be a few zones where six just isnt quite enough but 12 is too many)
The game needs a system that encourages guild cooperation/coordination
between smaller (more personalized) guilds and/or unguilded groups so that
they too have the opportunity to organize "raid" zone hunts. A new
interface would be helpful here...they made a system for guild wars. Why
not guild alliance?
Thats it for now....more to come later (maybe). What are your
opinions/gripes?
--
Kenthadeus Soulbryte
Vicar
Terris-Thule
Modat22
<NoneL...@takeahike.com> wrote:
>I find myself becoming more and more frustrated with the mechanics of EQ. I
>would like to poll the group for their oppinions on the matter. Please try
>and keep the responses geared towards the comments WRT (with respect to) the
>game and not how I should go find something else to play and /or quit. I
>enjoy the EQ community and love seeing improvements in the game.
Fella you might as well quit all MMORPG's for a little while and wait
till the technology generates something completly new and exciting or
you'll never be satisfied playing again.
Jakugg
> "The Vision" was to make the game more enjoyable/playable to groups vice
> solo. The maximum single group size is six. The game has been expanded
> disproportionately to REQUIRE (at 50+) groups larger than six. Does this
> make sense? It forces the higher end characters to join guilds in order to
> play. I have followed "The Vision" in grouping through to my current level
> (almost 55) but there are few places for a [single] group to actually hunt.
I guess I dont' even understand what your question means in this part.
There are definitely places where a single group of six can hunt well
into the fifties (Skyfire, Cobalt Scar, and Sol B come to mind) and
obviously other places where you'll want a raid force. (ToV, et. al.) As
to being "forced" to join guilds, I dont' think "forced" is the right
word, but yes, it's a multiplayer game and the guild system was built
into it for a reason.
> There needs to be more [new] content geared for the 45-55 crowd (maybe even
> higher, but im not there yet) that is huntable by a SINGLE group. It doesnt
> have to include uber loot drops, but there needs to be a larger selection of
> zones available in this level range. On a side note there seems to be a
> MAJOR equipment gap in this range as well. (Unless you belong to a larger
> guild). One solution might be making the max group size eight? (There
> seems to be a few zones where six just isnt quite enough but 12 is too many)
Again, you've lost/confused me. I did 40 to 51 playing almost
continuously in a single group that rarely even had six. Usually three
or four. We found lots of places to hunt, but dungeons and outdoors. If
you are facing a zone/mob that needs more, why do you need a larger
group limit. If you need eight people, make two groups of four. What's
the big deal?
I *will* agree that better communications are needed for multigroup
efforts, and Verant has indicated their intentions to add a "raid
channe" to the speech selections. Hopefully we'll get it soon. (With SoL
maybe?)
> The game needs a system that encourages guild cooperation/coordination
> between smaller (more personalized) guilds and/or unguilded groups so that
> they too have the opportunity to organize "raid" zone hunts. A new
> interface would be helpful here...they made a system for guild wars. Why
> not guild alliance?
The big dogs get the most meat. Sorry. That's how it goes. The
uberguilds that put in the work and get organized, etc. will be the ones
to primarily get a crack at the high end content and loot most often.
Guild alliances are nothing new, and happen all the time. Our midlevel
guild is in an alliance with two others and we've managed some fair
mid-range raids. Friends of ours in a 45 to 60, but new/small guild have
allied with some other high level groups/allies to raid stuff like Kael
arena, Sirens Grotto, etc. It can and is done. You just have to get out
there and forge those types of relationships. If you are totally
unguilded and have no interest/ability to get into a guild, there's just
certain things that you're never going to do, or see, or obtain.
--
Jakugg Blackheart, 51 Troll Champion
- - - -
"Anything more than a metric buttload of mobs is a bardic pull."
Arolpin Lorespinner
Dan Harmon
"Kenthadeus Soulbryte" <NoneL...@takeahike.com> wrote in message
news:iSAx7.56164$Pr1.16...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
I believe Verant has said that SoL is going to offer you what you're looking
for.
But as for single xp groups, you just don't know Norrath at all if you can't
find places to take a single group. These are just off the top of my head!
SolB (fire giants...a raid, long respawn)
Plane of Fear
Kedge Keep
Karnors
Skyfire
Sebilis
Chardok
Howling Stone/Charassis
Icewell Keep (there's the dwarf side & critter side)
Velk's Lab
Kael/Skyshrine/Thurgadin, depending on faction
Cobalt Scar
Siren's Grotto
Kenthadeus Soulbryte
"Jakugg" <js...@stny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3BC6EECD...@stny.rr.com...
> I guess I dont' even understand what your question means in this part.
> There are definitely places where a single group of six can hunt well
> into the fifties (Skyfire, Cobalt Scar, and Sol B come to mind) and
> obviously other places where you'll want a raid force. (ToV, et. al.) As
> to being "forced" to join guilds, I dont' think "forced" is the right
> word, but yes, it's a multiplayer game and the guild system was built
> into it for a reason.
>
That is sort of my point...in a game with many, many zones you named
three. There are a few more, but not enough.
>
> Again, you've lost/confused me. I did 40 to 51 playing almost
> continuously in a single group that rarely even had six. Usually three
> or four. We found lots of places to hunt, but dungeons and outdoors. If
> you are facing a zone/mob that needs more, why do you need a larger
> group limit. If you need eight people, make two groups of four. What's
> the big deal?
I didnt say it was a big deal, but due to the lack of a multi-group
comunication system it makes it less enjoyable and more like work. A max
group of eight would fix this as would some sorta of multi-group com
channel.
> The big dogs get the most meat. Sorry. That's how it goes. The
> uberguilds that put in the work and get organized, etc. will be the ones
> to primarily get a crack at the high end content and loot most often.
As I stated, there dont have to be Uber loot drops in zones, just a bit more
content added.
> Guild alliances are nothing new, and happen all the time. Our midlevel
> guild is in an alliance with two others and we've managed some fair
> mid-range raids. Friends of ours in a 45 to 60, but new/small guild have
> allied with some other high level groups/allies to raid stuff like Kael
> arena, Sirens Grotto, etc. It can and is done.
Yes, I know. What I am trying to say, in part anyway, is that the game was
not designed for PvP combat, yet they added a guild war feature. The game
appears to have been designed (at least at the high end) for multi-guild
coordination and yet no features were added to support this. All the
progress in this area has been made using player made systems (kudos to
those people who have put that much work in to their guilds/alliances), I am
merely suggesting that the game be made to support this better.
>You just have to get out
> there and forge those types of relationships. If you are totally
> unguilded and have no interest/ability to get into a guild, there's just
> certain things that you're never going to do, or see, or obtain.
Not worried about what I can -or- cannot obtain, nor what I can or cannot
see/do in the current zones. I am satisfied with my characters. I like
being a ghetto cleric. Yes, I enjoy getting improved equipment but my
motivation for playing the game isnt the never ending search for new [uber]
gear. I am also not a role player. There is a BIG difference, in my
opinion, between a good cleric (any class inserted here) and one who is
equipped well. Unfortunately, there are far too many of the latter.
> --
> Jakugg Blackheart, 51 Troll Champion
> - - - -
> "Anything more than a metric buttload of mobs is a bardic pull."
> Arolpin Lorespinner
Ben Sisson
(if that IS his real name) disgorged:
>
>"Kenthadeus Soulbryte" <NoneL...@takeahike.com> wrote in message
>news:iSAx7.56164$Pr1.16...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
>
>I believe Verant has said that SoL is going to offer you what you're looking
>for.
>
>But as for single xp groups, you just don't know Norrath at all if you can't
>find places to take a single group. These are just off the top of my head!
>
>Kedge Keep
Only Phin's room would be worth it.
>Chardok
This is what I really wanted to respond to. They've said they're
redoing this zone to make it friendlier (its a hellhole atm that no
one wants to exp hunt in other than near the entrance). The loot table
is also being redone. Hopefully that should put it on par with
Charasis at least.
Ben Sisson
"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people
of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
Kenthadeus Soulbryte
news:uc1estkl4n8s3ivcb...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 14:32:55 GMT, "Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com>
> (if that IS his real name) disgorged:
> >"Kenthadeus Soulbryte" <NoneL...@takeahike.com> wrote in message
> >news:iSAx7.56164$Pr1.16...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
>
> Only Phin's room would be worth it.
>
Thats a good note too..more an amplifying point. There are many zones that
you CAN hunt in, but only in part. Either most of the zones is too low, so
you are forced to sit in one to a few rooms or the opposite is true and you
can only hunt at the zone line.
> >Chardok
>
> This is what I really wanted to respond to. They've said they're
> redoing this zone to make it friendlier (its a hellhole atm that no
> one wants to exp hunt in other than near the entrance). The loot table
> is also being redone. Hopefully that should put it on par with
> Charasis at least.
>
>
From what I have seen, the Chardok changes are for the better. I must
admit I was a little peeved though, the old way noone bothered our group
there. Now its like Karnors/Seb/LGuk. Veks is good as is Charasis. Cobalt
Scar was sorta of a letdown. Atmittedly, I havent been back to Sirens since
they changed it way back when. But at level 50-51 (2 groups) it took a
significant effort just to zone in and take the three entrance mobs.
> Ben Sisson
>
> "You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are
people
> of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons."
--
Kenthadeus Soulbryte
Vicar
Terris-Thule
Darren Chriest
a LOT more fun and got a LOT more stuff appropriate to my class and
level in the 20 - 50 range. I've got virtually nothing post 50 and
I've tried very, very hard. Basically all I've got after 50 was
experience. I play a Wizard.
Darren Chriest
>
> "Kenthadeus Soulbryte" <NoneL...@takeahike.com> wrote in message
> news:iSAx7.56164$Pr1.16...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
>
> I believe Verant has said that SoL is going to offer you what you're looking
> for.
tell me I'm wrong.
TwoHead
From what I've heard it will be content for lvls 1-60, but the high end
content will be geared towards groups as opposed to raids like Velious
was. Seem to recall either Brad or Absor saying that but of course I am
not gonna go searching all over the web for a cite so feel free to not
take my word for it, I wont' mind <g>.
th
David Navarro
> "The Vision" was to make the game more enjoyable/playable to groups vice
> solo. The maximum single group size is six. The game has been expanded
> disproportionately to REQUIRE (at 50+) groups larger than six. Does this
> make sense? It forces the higher end characters to join guilds in order
> to
> play. I have followed "The Vision" in grouping through to my current
> level (almost 55) but there are few places for a [single] group to
> actually hunt.
Apparently, this particular concern is being addressed in SoL... I guess we
can only keep our fingers crossed.
--
Hanrahan Thornhide, Druid, Fennin Ro.
Parsifal, Bard, Fennin Ro.
Molgarin, Wizard, Firiona Vie.
Tim Smith
> I *will* agree that better communications are needed for multigroup
>efforts, and Verant has indicated their intentions to add a "raid
>channe" to the speech selections. Hopefully we'll get it soon. (With SoL
>maybe?)
We could get it on the next patch: there's a trivial way to implement
it with changes to the client that would take about 10 minutes to
program, and need *no* changes to the server. It would not be ideal
(it would use as much bandwidth as using /ooc and /shout do now...to
make a raid channel that saves bandwidth does require server changes),
but would at least make multigroup raids in areas where there are
other people not on the raid a lot less annoying. This has been
suggested to Verant, with details, be a few people, but no response.
--Tim Smith
Silverlock
I think I recall McQuaid saying they wee working on some sort of Raid
communication channel for SOL. Not sure if its going in or its status
though. Agree about the 1 group areas though.
--
Silverlock, ICQ 474725,
Household Pests? The SW-404 'SpitFire' APRL cleansing system
will remove them, we Guarantee IT! Not responsible for damage
to persons or structures from use of this product.
Dial 1-800-FRY-THEM for info and a home demonstration.
Sang K. Choe
<NoneL...@takeahike.com> wrote:
>...I have followed "The Vision" in grouping through to my current level
>(almost 55) but there are few places for a [single] group to actually hunt.
This is where you're wrong.
There's only about 2 places in the game where a single group cannot
hunt.
What you're confusing is "can't hunt" vs. "won't take the risk to
hunt".
>There needs to be more [new] content geared for the 45-55 crowd (maybe even
>higher, but im not there yet) that is huntable by a SINGLE group.
Oh give me a fucking break.
Single group between 45 to 55 can hunt:
Hole, Hate, Fear, Sebilis, Chardok, Karnor, Velk, Icewell, Kael,
Skyshrine, Western Wastes, Siren's Grotto, Dragon Necropois.
What more content do you need?
-- Sang.
Lance
Jakugg wrote:
Well, the area most people comment on is communication... but in
addition to that there's the exp system. Multigroup raids generally
result in one group getting all the experience, more or less stealing
the efforts of the members of the other groups, killing things that
the group could not legitimately have taken without the help of the
others. Its possible, with effort, to balance things out so half the
kills go to one group and half to the other, but it seems to me that
the game -could- address this by allowing designated "raid" groupings
of groups to share exp out among the entire raid in some way.
Its a minor peeve if you only do occaisional raids... heck, its a
perk if you happen to be a usual member of the KS group... but
if you move to raiding constantly and -aren't- in the KS group,
then your exp climb comes to a sudden halt.
Bergh Brelltender
52 Vicar, Morel Thule
Jakugg
> Well, the area most people comment on is communication... but in
> addition to that there's the exp system. Multigroup raids generally
> result in one group getting all the experience, more or less stealing
> the efforts of the members of the other groups, killing things that
> the group could not legitimately have taken without the help of the
> others. Its possible, with effort, to balance things out so half the
> kills go to one group and half to the other, but it seems to me that
> the game -could- address this by allowing designated "raid" groupings
> of groups to share exp out among the entire raid in some way.
> Its a minor peeve if you only do occaisional raids... heck, its a
> perk if you happen to be a usual member of the KS group... but
> if you move to raiding constantly and -aren't- in the KS group,
> then your exp climb comes to a sudden halt.
I can certainly agree with you on those points. Most of all the
communications issue. As somebody who has led multi-guild raids, I can
tell you that it can get very annoying. The lack of a /raid channel and
inability to use the /guild channel due to multiple guilds forces us to
have the group leaders in /ooc and me in /shout. Usually have to ask
anyone else hunting in the zone to just /ignore us for the duration. A
/raid channel would be a huge improvement, and Verant has indicated that
they agree and will work to put one in.
The xp thing........ I don't know. I guess it would be nice if everyone
got an equal share of the xp, but on a large raid that would wind up
being an immeasurably small trickle of xp, so I'm not sure it would
matter. Maybe we're all just too used to the concept of "Raid= zero xp,
chance at loot" to bother complaining anymore.
--
Jakugg Blackheart, 51 Troll Champion (semi-retired)
*******
"Anything more than a metric butt-load of mobs is a bardic pull."
- - Arolpin Lorespinner
Lance
Jakugg wrote:
>
> The xp thing........ I don't know. I guess it would be nice if everyone
> got an equal share of the xp, but on a large raid that would wind up
> being an immeasurably small trickle of xp, so I'm not sure it would
> matter. Maybe we're all just too used to the concept of "Raid= zero xp,
> chance at loot" to bother complaining anymore.
> --
> Jakugg Blackheart, 51 Troll Champion (semi-retired)
> *******
> "Anything more than a metric butt-load of mobs is a bardic pull."
> - - Arolpin Lorespinner
Thats an illusion, by and large. As a warrior (and as a cleric) it sure
looks like there is no exp in a raid... but that's because we aren't
in the KS group. You don't do enough damage, and likely have
me along not doing any damage at all, just keeping you alive.
The group with the heavy nukes, on the other hand, is getting roughly
twice as much exp per hour as they would in a single group situation.
I've -been- in the KS group a few times, believe me, it can be
incredible.
Yes, a raid probably generates less exp per hour overall than splitting
up into independant exp groups... but in many cases the exp is
still not negligible at all.
Splitting the exp up equitably would also give you reason not to
pad the raids so much; split that exp fewer ways and it counts for
more.
On the other hand, if the Vision(tm) is that we do everything
possible in just groups, then this wouldn't help; you'd see more
people doing constant raiding, instead of spending some
of their EQ time in obligatory EXP grinds.
Bergh Brelltender
52 vicar, Morel Thule
Kenthadeus Soulbryte
news:3bca0412....@news.isomedia.com...
First of all, dont you have to 46 for Fear/Hate? Secondly, Icewell/West
Wastes/Sirens/Drag Necropolis would be geared more towards the higher end
(52-53+) of that range and would require everyone to be at that level.
There are certain places that, you are correct, arent worth the risk. More
pointedly I guess my arguement should be that maybe the high end game should
have content that doesnt require a time investment of 4 to 6 hours. Let me
qualify that by saying, I am talking about just killing for experience not
raid/loot type hunts. When you have played the game for over two and a half
years you and half of that has been 50+. The same dozen zones get OLD.
Darren Chriest
> Well, the area most people comment on is communication... but in
> addition to that there's the exp system. Multigroup raids generally
> result in one group getting all the experience, more or less stealing
> the efforts of the members of the other groups, killing things that
> the group could not
Yes that is a major annoyance for some people. It was for me until
I got to a high enough level where I was usually in the "XP group"
then I felt guilty for stealing all the XP. But really, there isn't
much XP to be had on a big raid anyway. The main purpose is the loot
the big MOBs drop, not xp.
Sang K. Choe
<NoneL...@takeahike.com> wrote:
>> Single group between 45 to 55 can hunt:
>>
>> Hole, Hate, Fear, Sebilis, Chardok, Karnor, Velk, Icewell, Kael,
>> Skyshrine, Western Wastes, Siren's Grotto, Dragon Necropois.
>>
>> What more content do you need?
>
>First of all, dont you have to 46 for Fear/Hate?
Yeah, you're right. You need one extra level.
So go there tomorrow.
>Secondly, Icewell/West
>Wastes/Sirens/Drag Necropolis would be geared more towards the higher end
>(52-53+) of that range and would require everyone to be at that level.
Ummm, Icewell dorfs are pretty easy and decent exp at low 50's and
high 40's. Western Wastes is also decent assuming you don't pull
Sontalak with just one group. DN is fantastic for high 40's all the
way to 60's. That's one of the better designed zones in the game.
Siren's after the recent "tuning" yet again, is perfectly doable at 45
to 55 range.
>There are certain places that, you are correct, arent worth the risk. More
>pointedly I guess my arguement should be that maybe the high end game should
>have content that doesnt require a time investment of 4 to 6 hours.
Guess it varies from person to person.
I often log on my warrior twinkie for a couple of hours and get decent
exp grind.
-- Sang.
James
Sang K. Choe wrote in message <3bca0412....@news.isomedia.com>...
>On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:54:54 GMT, "Kenthadeus Soulbryte"
><NoneL...@takeahike.com> wrote:
>
>>...I have followed "The Vision" in grouping through to my current level
>>(almost 55) but there are few places for a [single] group to actually
hunt.
>
>This is where you're wrong.
>There's only about 2 places in the game where a single group cannot
>hunt.
>
>What you're confusing is "can't hunt" vs. "won't take the risk to
>hunt".
Let me list what a hunting ground needs to be used:
a) Needs to be close to a port in. More than one zone away from a port
point, and nobody will go there because nobody wants to run to hell and gone
to find out no group openings are available.
b) Needs to have a safe zone-in when the zone is at full pop. People will go
to such a zone to get in a pickup group, the dominant form of group at all
levels of the game. They will not zone into a zone where they can get
attacked on entry with reasonably high probability.
c) Faction cannot enter into the choice of hunting ground. If it does, it
had better be a faction that can be abandoned without problems.
d) Loot that has some trade value.
>>There needs to be more [new] content geared for the 45-55 crowd (maybe
even
>>higher, but im not there yet) that is huntable by a SINGLE group.
>
>Oh give me a fucking break.
>Single group between 45 to 55 can hunt:
>
>Hole
Close to a port, for most folks faction isn't an issue. I've seen pickup
action here.
>Hate, Fear
WIZ port only, both have dangerous zone-in points. The loot is No Drop,
and at the point you'd hunt here in a single group is likely useless. Unused
except for raids.
>Sebilis
The classic pickup group zone.
>Chardok
Now that it's been changed, gaining popularity.
>Karnor
A good example of an "abandonable faction" zone. Again, a strong group
zone.
>Velk
Since changes, a strong pickup zone.
>Icewell, Kael, Skyshrine
Factioned in a place where faction matters. I only ever see raids in
these places, and they don't exactly let any old person join up.
>Western Wastes, Siren's Grotto, Dragon Necropois.
Much too remote. SG is the only zone that's close to a TP, and it's got
a guarded zone-in point. Empty with reason.
So of that list we have Velk, Karnor, Chardok, Seb, and sometimes The
Hole. A good list (and if we include Karnor then include Sol B Bats and
Bugs), but there could be more. Especially since that list has to service
the entire 50 plus crowd. Compare that with the list of raid-level stuff.
Hell, even for a guild like yours that's so elite it's insane there's at
least (per week) two days worth of activity in NToV, and some short
soujourns in Kael, Skyshrine, Sleeper's, and Fear. For most other guilds
there's Kael, Skyshrine, WW, DN, SG, ToV, Kunark dragons inc. VP, Chardok
royals, Sky, and a boatload of "lesser" encounters like epic mobs.
James
conwict
wrote:
>[snip] Stuff that makes a good hunting ground
IMO, it would be awesome if Verant had a monthly "make a zone"
contest...I bet a lot of players would have great ideas. It's already
possible to make your own zone. The player would just have to include
some notes.
--
-conwict (corey nelson)
-survivor: texas...drive from dallas to austin
in a pink volvo with a bumper sticker reading
"i'm gay, i'm looking for al gore, and i'm here
to take your guns"
-short.bus.tripod.com
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
> Let me list what a hunting ground needs to be used:
>
> a) Needs to be close to a port in. More than one zone away from a port
> point, and nobody will go there because nobody wants to run to hell and gone
> to find out no group openings are available.
> b) Needs to have a safe zone-in when the zone is at full pop. People will go
> to such a zone to get in a pickup group, the dominant form of group at all
> levels of the game. They will not zone into a zone where they can get
> attacked on entry with reasonably high probability.
> c) Faction cannot enter into the choice of hunting ground. If it does, it
> had better be a faction that can be abandoned without problems.
> d) Loot that has some trade value.
Sebilis is used a lot. It does not have all these.
--
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen (fnord, PGP Key: 0xD8991BE1)
Where She walks the Darkness, I bring the Light
James
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote in message ...
>In article <LsGy7.616$%K4.1...@news1.telusplanet.net>, James wrote:
>> Let me list what a hunting ground needs to be used:
>>
>> a) Needs to be close to a port in. More than one zone away from a port
>> point, and nobody will go there because nobody wants to run to hell and
gone
>> to find out no group openings are available.
>> b) Needs to have a safe zone-in when the zone is at full pop. People will
go
>> to such a zone to get in a pickup group, the dominant form of group at
all
>> levels of the game. They will not zone into a zone where they can get
>> attacked on entry with reasonably high probability.
>> c) Faction cannot enter into the choice of hunting ground. If it does, it
>> had better be a faction that can be abandoned without problems.
>> d) Loot that has some trade value.
>
>Sebilis is used a lot. It does not have all these.
Seb is one zone away from the EJ port. When one zones in, no mobs are
within aggro range unless a player has pulled them there. The faction lost
only hoses you in that dungeon. And the loot was an EC staple, and still has
fair value. So which is it missing?
James
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
> Let me list what a hunting ground needs to be used:
>
>a) Needs to be close to a port in. More than one zone away from a port
>point, and nobody will go there because nobody wants to run to hell and gone
>to find out no group openings are available.
Nonsense.
One of the most crowded zone prior to Velious was Sebilis. It wasn't
in a zone with a port (and since you had to haul ass to Karnor before
you can even fire EJ port) it involved about 20 mins of running.
>b) Needs to have a safe zone-in when the zone is at full pop. People will go
>to such a zone to get in a pickup group, the dominant form of group at all
>levels of the game. They will not zone into a zone where they can get
>attacked on entry with reasonably high probability.
Yeah, god forbid there's some element of risk involved.
>c) Faction cannot enter into the choice of hunting ground. If it does, it
>had better be a faction that can be abandoned without problems.
>d) Loot that has some trade value.
I thought you said loot wasn't a concern.
>>Hate, Fear
>
> WIZ port only, both have dangerous zone-in points. The loot is No Drop,
>and at the point you'd hunt here in a single group is likely useless. Unused
>except for raids.
Both Hate/Fear, given the new level cap is single group zones. You
can start pickup groups practically anywhere for these two zones.
>>Western Wastes, Siren's Grotto, Dragon Necropois.
>
> Much too remote. SG is the only zone that's close to a TP, and it's got
>a guarded zone-in point. Empty with reason.
SG is completely safe at the zone in (you might want to go there again
and check). Instead of 3 walrusmen with damn near impossible MR
smacking for 220+ with aggro range the moment you zone in, there's one
walrusman out of aggro range, and piss poor MR at the zone in. I've
seen folks solo this guy.
Run from CS to DN is comparable to run from EJ to Sebilis in terms of
distance. The difference is instead of froggies, you have roaming
dragons and drakes which only a handful will see invis or run as fast
as SoW.
Again, goes back to "too risky".
> So of that list we have Velk, Karnor, Chardok, Seb, and sometimes The
>Hole. A good list (and if we include Karnor then include Sol B Bats and
>Bugs), but there could be more.
What you want is a save, easy, risk free zone to get exp and phat
lewts.
>Especially since that list has to service
>the entire 50 plus crowd. Compare that with the list of raid-level stuff.
Raid level stuff?
You mean VP, ST, ToV, Kael, Icewell and maybe Skyshrine?
With the latter three being "pickup group" zones as well.
Only VP, ST and ToV would be considered strictly raid only zones.
-- Sang.
James
Sang K. Choe wrote in message <3bcb7464....@news.isomedia.com>...
>On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:06:19 GMT, "James" <jamesg...@home.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Let me list what a hunting ground needs to be used:
>>
>>a) Needs to be close to a port in. More than one zone away from a port
>>point, and nobody will go there because nobody wants to run to hell and
gone
>>to find out no group openings are available.
>
>Nonsense.
>One of the most crowded zone prior to Velious was Sebilis.
Key words, "prior to Velious". As in back when it was one of the few
places one COULD go to hit level 60. As you have pointed out, Skyfire
suxx0rs and it's not like people /ooc'ed "Want to form top of High Keep
group!" Today, it's my understanding that it's beginning to empty out. Velks
is too convenient.
>>b) Needs to have a safe zone-in when the zone is at full pop. People will
go
>>to such a zone to get in a pickup group, the dominant form of group at all
>>levels of the game. They will not zone into a zone where they can get
>>attacked on entry with reasonably high probability.
>
>Yeah, god forbid there's some element of risk involved.
It's about needless risk, yes. Nobody is going to go someplace where
they may have to sit 30 mins at zone-in LFG'ing their hearts out if they
have to solo the Big Bad Mob at zone-in, especially if they're a class that
cannot solo the Big Bad Mob at zone-in. Because every time they zone in,
they have to face the prospect of nobody but the mob being on the other
side.
This is different from having a zone-out be far from zone-in. I think
with Seb people got used to the idea of having to camp at zone-in if no
openings were around, or find a DRU/WIZ to get them out, or <gasp> make that
run to zone-out. This is step into the dungeon, Mr. Mage, and get whacked
into paste from the get-go.
>>c) Faction cannot enter into the choice of hunting ground. If it does, it
>>had better be a faction that can be abandoned without problems.
>>d) Loot that has some trade value.
>
>I thought you said loot wasn't a concern.
Actually, I didn't. You've listed all four points - read them again.
>>>Hate, Fear
>>
>> WIZ port only, both have dangerous zone-in points. The loot is No
Drop,
>>and at the point you'd hunt here in a single group is likely useless.
Unused
>>except for raids.
>
>Both Hate/Fear, given the new level cap is single group zones.
No argument there.
>You can start pickup groups practically anywhere for these two zones.
I doubt it. You have to be in a zone with a viable party LFG with at
least a porter (to get to The Feerrott, if nothing else) being one member.
In most zones I've been in, if you have a group GTG there's likely SOMEPLACE
in the dungeon where you can set up and start pulling. Likely the party
member that suggested "hey, let's go to Hate for XP and no lewt!" would get
a lot of odd stares.
>>>Western Wastes, Siren's Grotto, Dragon Necropois.
>>
>> Much too remote. SG is the only zone that's close to a TP, and it's
got
>>a guarded zone-in point. Empty with reason.
>
>SG is completely safe at the zone in (you might want to go there again
>and check).
I should have been more specific. The sirens outside in CS are what I
was talking about by "guarded zone-in point". Unlike Seb, where you can
stroll to the orb and see nary a soul, it's more like Howling Stones (which
I'm surprised you didn't mention in your list).
>Instead of 3 walrusmen with damn near impossible MR
>smacking for 220+ with aggro range the moment you zone in,
Did you encounter issues pre-change? I was only there the once, but at
level 58 or so I was not in aggro range when I zoned in and I WAS visible
(siren mishap outside with the party's druid losing camo).
>Run from CS to DN is comparable to run from EJ to Sebilis in terms of
>distance. The difference is instead of froggies, you have roaming
>dragons and drakes which only a handful will see invis or run as fast
>as SoW.
Sticking to the zone wall in TT, you'll see mobs in the distance on your
run to Seb. Maybe. So you will arrive at your XP destination with, well, all
your XP. To get to DN, you need to clear CS (wandering Wyverns etc. possible
if the kiters are slacking, sirens at SG zone), run through/Succor through
SG, then get through WW with yellow-at-60, instakill mobs wandering about.
Just to zone in and start LFGing. And you wonder why it isn't a pickup group
zone? /boggle
>Again, goes back to "too risky".
Hell, yes. When people go to a zone to get XP, they want to, well, get
XP for the day. Not die en route because Invis dropped in the wrong place,
then spend a half hour just getting back to the body. Never mind trying to
find a res in the Great Unknown.
>> So of that list we have Velk, Karnor, Chardok, Seb, and sometimes The
>>Hole. A good list (and if we include Karnor then include Sol B Bats and
>>Bugs), but there could be more.
>
>What you want is a save, easy, risk free zone to get exp and phat
>lewts.
Re-read. The target zone can be quite difficult. But the TRIP THERE
CAN'T BE! People won't risk life and limb for a CHANCE to get a group. But
if they can get to the zone and start LFGing without risk, they will go. The
better the loot, the more will go. You know that semi-zone line off Oasis?
Put Howling Stones off that zone line, and get rid of the zone-in mobs, and
the place would be PACKED with folks. You could do that for DN, too, and
same result - packed house. No matter the difficulty of the target zone,
people will adapt.
>>Especially since that list has to service
>>the entire 50 plus crowd. Compare that with the list of raid-level stuff.
>
>Raid level stuff?
>You mean VP, ST, ToV, Kael, Icewell and maybe Skyshrine?
And Fear. And Hate. And Sky. And many of the epic encounters. And the
Kunark dragons. And.... There's a boatload of raid-level stuff out there.
Your guild may have progressed past wanting most of it, but frankly at the
level your guild is at you can't really expect there to be much loot you'd
die to have, can you? What I see is "lesser" guilds spending a lot of time
on these areas I mention, "raiding". To them killing Velketor is useful,
killing Lord Bob is useful, going after Zlandicar is useful, and they aren't
single-group mobs.
>Only VP, ST and ToV would be considered strictly raid only zones.
Come now! ST used to be a single-group zone! :P
There may be few raid-only zones, but there is a TON of raid-only
content out there. And the same cannot be said of XP-group content for the
post-54 crowd.
James
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
>>Yeah, god forbid there's some element of risk involved.
>
> It's about needless risk, yes.
By your definition, anything that can cause death is a needless risk.
>>You can start pickup groups practically anywhere for these two zones.
>
> I doubt it. You have to be in a zone with a viable party LFG with at
>least a porter
Like Karnor, Trakanon, Velk, etc..?
>>SG is completely safe at the zone in (you might want to go there again
>>and check).
>
> I should have been more specific. The sirens outside in CS are what I
>was talking about by "guarded zone-in point".
These don't see invis and can be trivially outrun with SoW.
>Unlike Seb, where you can
>stroll to the orb and see nary a soul, it's more like Howling Stones (which
>I'm surprised you didn't mention in your list).
Well, HS has that retarded key requirement which makes it a pain...not
to mention I just forgot. Gives you an idea how many 45 - 55 zones
there are.
>>Instead of 3 walrusmen with damn near impossible MR
>>smacking for 220+ with aggro range the moment you zone in,
>
> Did you encounter issues pre-change? I was only there the once, but at
>level 58 or so I was not in aggro range when I zoned in and I WAS visible
>(siren mishap outside with the party's druid losing camo).
At level 60, pre-change you were in aggro range the moment you zoned
in. There's a tiny corner near the zoneline where you wouldn't aggro
if you dropped invis but that was it.
I was in there the second night Velious was released. Heard rumors
that WW was past SG, figured I would take a couple of groups to WW and
see what's there. Ended up just staying in SG since quite frankly,
those unslowable, unmezzable double 220+ smacking walrusmen were FUN!
>>Run from CS to DN is comparable to run from EJ to Sebilis in terms of
>>distance. The difference is instead of froggies, you have roaming
>>dragons and drakes which only a handful will see invis or run as fast
>>as SoW.
>
> Sticking to the zone wall in TT, you'll see mobs in the distance on your
>run to Seb. Maybe. So you will arrive at your XP destination with, well, all
>your XP. To get to DN, you need to clear CS (wandering Wyverns etc. possible
>if the kiters are slacking, sirens at SG zone), run through/Succor through
>SG, then get through WW with yellow-at-60, instakill mobs wandering about.
Run through CS is trivial, nothing in CS sees invis, not even Fish.
SG, you can use the "self-succor" tactic.
Once in WW, you can run along the zone wall (where NOTHING that sees
invis roams) and make it to DN without any problems. The Safe Rock is
called Safe Rock for a reason you know...
If I can make this run naked with a level 5 warrior, you can make the
same run at level 45+.
>>>Especially since that list has to service
>>>the entire 50 plus crowd. Compare that with the list of raid-level stuff.
>>
>>Raid level stuff?
>>You mean VP, ST, ToV, Kael, Icewell and maybe Skyshrine?
>
> And Fear. And Hate. And Sky.
Fear and Hate as I said are no longer raid zones unless you plan on
taking out CT/Inny. Those zones have level 49 to 51 mobs which are
about the same as krups/ilis in Sebilis (I'm not referring to the
second floor of hate as the pathing there alone makes it a real pain
in the ass). Referring Fear/Hate as a "raid" zone is like referring
to jail spawn in Sebilis as a raid zone.
Sky is just a mindnumbing torture. It makes you realize that "what
strange things" isn't a trap, but rather a way to break the fucking
tedium. Raid Sky? Not in this life time, ever again.
>And many of the epic encounters. And the
>Kunark dragons. And.... There's a boatload of raid-level stuff out there.
Compared to exp camps, there's little raid content.
There's ToV, maybe VP, maybe ST (by the way this zone CAN be a single
group zone you know). Outside of those, "raids" are usually only for
specific big mob in zones like Fear (CT), Hate (Inny, HA!), Kael
(Tormax, Derakor/Vindicator), Skyshrine (Yelinak), Icewell (Dain), DN
(Zland, Double HA!) and Western Wastes (Sontalak/Klandicar).
Ok, I'll give you Karnor (VS), Seb (Trak) and Chardok
(Overking/Queen). But those are far more an exp group zone than raid
zone.
>Your guild may have progressed past wanting most of it, but frankly at the
>level your guild is at you can't really expect there to be much loot you'd
>die to have, can you?
Sure there is.
Guild of 50+ people, you gotta hit ToVN quite a few times to outfit
everyone you know...
>...To them killing Velketor is useful,
>killing Lord Bob is useful, going after Zlandicar is useful, and they aren't
>single-group mobs.
Lord Bob is.
One group capped him last night.
Velketor does however, require more than one group. :)
>>Only VP, ST and ToV would be considered strictly raid only zones.
>
> Come now! ST used to be a single-group zone! :P
You do realize that you CAN hunt in ST with just one group right? ST
is far from the toughest zone in the game. Infact, it's marginally
more difficult than DN in some ways.
Infact, everything, including the named golems and warders 1 to 3 can
be killed with just three groups. The non-named trash (which can
rarely load priceless weapons) can be killed with one group.
It's only the last warder that require a full raid calibre force...I'm
convinced in a straight up fight, Ventani is tougher than Vyemm.
> There may be few raid-only zones, but there is a TON of raid-only
>content out there. And the same cannot be said of XP-group content for the
>post-54 crowd.
There are a shitload more XP-group content than raid content. BY A
HUGE MARGIN.
-- Sang.
Ed Bradley
"James" <jamesg...@home.com> wrote in message
news:yBLy7.1077$%K4.3...@news1.telusplanet.net...
>
>
> There may be few raid-only zones, but there is a TON of raid-only
> content out there. And the same cannot be said of XP-group content for the
> post-54 crowd.
>
> James
>
Seems to me you are arguing the difference between 'single group
encounters', of which there are plenty, and 'safe pickup group zones' of
which there are fewer. This isn't a design problem, it's a problem with the
lack of imagination/curiosity/ability of pickup groups.
I _never, ever_ had trouble finding somewherte to exp from 54-60 but I have
a regular group who are keen to visit and explore out-of-the-way places and
over that time we probably exped in all of the places listed at the top of
this thread.
Jeremiah Kristal
(Sang K. Choe) wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:57:02 GMT, "James" <jamesg...@home.com>
>wrote:
>>>SG is completely safe at the zone in (you might want to go there again
>>>and check).
>>
>> I should have been more specific. The sirens outside in CS are what I
>>was talking about by "guarded zone-in point".
>
>These don't see invis and can be trivially outrun with SoW.
And even if they do see invis, they are more of an annoyance than a
real problem. I've seen people killed by other PCs while charmed, but
I've never died to the sirens.
>>>Instead of 3 walrusmen with damn near impossible MR
>>>smacking for 220+ with aggro range the moment you zone in,
>>
>> Did you encounter issues pre-change? I was only there the once, but at
>>level 58 or so I was not in aggro range when I zoned in and I WAS visible
>>(siren mishap outside with the party's druid losing camo).
>
>At level 60, pre-change you were in aggro range the moment you zoned
>in. There's a tiny corner near the zoneline where you wouldn't aggro
>if you dropped invis but that was it.
Hmmm, I never really had a problem with this. I would say it was a
bit bigger than tiny, since I've seen full raids setting up there.
Sure it's tight, but I would say you had 10 feet from the wall outside
of aggro range.
>
>I was in there the second night Velious was released. Heard rumors
>that WW was past SG, figured I would take a couple of groups to WW and
>see what's there. Ended up just staying in SG since quite frankly,
>those unslowable, unmezzable double 220+ smacking walrusmen were FUN!
Bah, I only made it to SG the 2nd day of Velious. Was way too young
to be in SG, if I had even known it existed. Hunting wyverns with a
group of low/mid-40s was great exp though. I also got a CS key that
time, too bad I didn't get a SS key then too.
I made it to SG pretty early on though, long before there were any
decent maps. Nothing but nothing would stick to those MR resistant
mobs, they hit HARD, and ran for help at any opportunity. I think
some of the best fun I've ever had was watching our guildleader single
pull the castle. It failed a lot more than it worked, and made for
some IMPRESSIVE trains. Oh, and remember those bastard icy terrors or
whatever?
>>>Run from CS to DN is comparable to run from EJ to Sebilis in terms of
>>>distance. The difference is instead of froggies, you have roaming
>>>dragons and drakes which only a handful will see invis or run as fast
>>>as SoW.
>>
>> Sticking to the zone wall in TT, you'll see mobs in the distance on your
>>run to Seb. Maybe. So you will arrive at your XP destination with, well, all
>>your XP. To get to DN, you need to clear CS (wandering Wyverns etc. possible
>>if the kiters are slacking, sirens at SG zone), run through/Succor through
>>SG, then get through WW with yellow-at-60, instakill mobs wandering about.
>
>Run through CS is trivial, nothing in CS sees invis, not even Fish.
Yeah, run through CS is trivial at best, and if you've not ruined
Othmir faction, you can train any wyverns that attack to them.
>SG, you can use the "self-succor" tactic.
I wouldn't recommend it. I saw a GM with GM invis pop into view and
give account warnings to several people for self-succor this weekend.
I still find SG one of the hardest zones to get through, since I have
never been able to get past those damn seahorses without getting
aggrod. I've tried all the tricks, and I still get hit, but maybe I'm
doing it wrong. If I don't get stunned I'm fine, but one stun and I'm
looking for a monk and a cleric.
>Once in WW, you can run along the zone wall (where NOTHING that sees
>invis roams) and make it to DN without any problems. The Safe Rock is
>called Safe Rock for a reason you know...
This is a trivial run, if you have invis. You need to have invis
though, and it's still WAY too long a run to look for a pick-up group.
Hell, sometimes it's even too long if you know a group is there
keeping a spot open for you.
(Side-rant: How in the hell do otherwise competant people get
characters to 60 without knowing how to travel? As a bard, I run
rather than port unless I'm avoiding a boat, but everyone has to run
from port-in to camp site. I have NEVER died crossing WW solo, but
crossing with a group just terrifies me. I give the shpeil about all
auto-follow leader, keep angle down so don't fall if you lag, tell
leader to listen to stop calls, basic stuff, but has to be repeated.
By the time I get to third-person view we are out of the tunnel,
heading straight out across the zone, and running right into big,
named, see-invis dragon. First, you're going the wrong way, second,
you ran into a mob, and third, you didn't even con him! Sorry, I'll
go look up a cleric with the Brell's Blessed Stout bracer and calm
down.)
>If I can make this run naked with a level 5 warrior, you can make the
>same run at level 45+.
You ran a naked warrior to DN? I assume you had a guardian casting SoW
and invis at least. The question is why? What no-drop twink piece is
good enough to go through the trouble?
>>...To them killing Velketor is useful,
>>killing Lord Bob is useful, going after Zlandicar is useful, and they aren't
>>single-group mobs.
>
>Lord Bob is.
>One group capped him last night.
I would think that the hardest part about taking Lord Bob (or Lord
Djamalamalongname as I call him) with a single group would be just
getting to him. Those specs are fun.
Arolpin Lorespinner
StanMann
Jer
> >If I can make this run naked with a level 5 warrior, you can make the
> >same run at level 45+.
>
> You ran a naked warrior to DN? I assume you had a guardian casting SoW
> and invis at least. The question is why? What no-drop twink piece is
> good enough to go through the trouble?
Just to do it? Because it could be done? Why climb everest, or go to
the moon? Because it is there.
StanMann
--
To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.To be
incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized, merely
the domesticated.-- Trefor Thomas
James
Sang K. Choe wrote in message <3bcbe461....@news.isomedia.com>...
>On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:57:02 GMT, "James" <jamesg...@home.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>Yeah, god forbid there's some element of risk involved.
>>
>> It's about needless risk, yes.
>
>By your definition, anything that can cause death is a needless risk.
Anything that causes death in transit, sure, I'll go with that. Remember
my perspective here: I'm a cleric. I have no JBoots, and my invis item is a
PITA Larrikan's Mask. So everything you take for granted when travelling I
have to constantly buy more of / recharge.
>>>You can start pickup groups practically anywhere for these two zones.
>>
>> I doubt it. You have to be in a zone with a viable party LFG with at
>>least a porter
>
>Like Karnor, Trakanon, Velk, etc..?
I've yet to see a full group in any of those zones GTG and NOT move in.
Sometimes they do daft things, like the three left corner groups in Velk's
the other day, but they don't sit around.
>>>Instead of 3 walrusmen with damn near impossible MR
>>>smacking for 220+ with aggro range the moment you zone in,
>>
>> Did you encounter issues pre-change? I was only there the once, but at
>>level 58 or so I was not in aggro range when I zoned in and I WAS visible
>>(siren mishap outside with the party's druid losing camo).
>
>At level 60, pre-change you were in aggro range the moment you zoned
>in.
Doesn't mesh with what I saw. I zoned in visible, not invisible, and got
no aggro from the three spawn. I'm a small race with no SG faction hits
against me, but I wouldn't think that would make a difference.
>>>Run from CS to DN is comparable to run from EJ to Sebilis in terms of
>>>distance. The difference is instead of froggies, you have roaming
>>>dragons and drakes which only a handful will see invis or run as fast
>>>as SoW.
>>
>> Sticking to the zone wall in TT, you'll see mobs in the distance on
your
>>run to Seb. Maybe. So you will arrive at your XP destination with, well,
all
>>your XP. To get to DN, you need to clear CS (wandering Wyverns etc.
possible
>>if the kiters are slacking, sirens at SG zone), run through/Succor through
>>SG, then get through WW with yellow-at-60, instakill mobs wandering about.
>
>Run through CS is trivial, nothing in CS sees invis, not even Fish.
And Invis never drops. :P My experiences are likely coloured by the one
trip, where the druid lost Camo close enough to a Siren. He didn't have a
chance to outrun it, because it charmed him as an opening move. And since he
had See Invis up he went after the Warrior. It was a mess, although we all
lived.
>SG, you can use the "self-succor" tactic.
Your server must have slack GMs. On our server you get the big boot in
the ass for trying crap like that. And they DO like to hang out invis and
/anon just to catch folks.
>>>>Especially since that list has to service
>>>>the entire 50 plus crowd. Compare that with the list of raid-level
stuff.
>>>
>>>Raid level stuff?
>>>You mean VP, ST, ToV, Kael, Icewell and maybe Skyshrine?
>>
>> And Fear. And Hate. And Sky.
>
>Fear and Hate as I said are no longer raid zones unless you plan on
>taking out CT/Inny. Those zones have level 49 to 51 mobs which are
>about the same as krups/ilis in Sebilis (I'm not referring to the
>second floor of hate as the pathing there alone makes it a real pain
>in the ass). Referring Fear/Hate as a "raid" zone is like referring
>to jail spawn in Sebilis as a raid zone.
Sigh, I'm tired of arguing the point. All the low-end guilds on our
server raid Fear and Hate for armour. Yes, RAID. People below level 55 do
that kind of thing, you know, and the zone is set up for it.
>Sky is just a mindnumbing torture. It makes you realize that "what
>strange things" isn't a trap, but rather a way to break the fucking
>tedium. Raid Sky? Not in this life time, ever again.
/agree - if they upped the number of "key teleport item" drops, would
you still have the same issues with it?
>>And many of the epic encounters. And the
>>Kunark dragons. And.... There's a boatload of raid-level stuff out there.
>
>There's ToV, maybe VP, maybe ST (by the way this zone CAN be a single
>group zone you know). Outside of those, "raids" are usually only for
>specific big mob in zones like Fear (CT), Hate (Inny, HA!), Kael
>(Tormax, Derakor/Vindicator), Skyshrine (Yelinak), Icewell (Dain), DN
>(Zland, Double HA!) and Western Wastes (Sontalak/Klandicar).
>
>Ok, I'll give you Karnor (VS), Seb (Trak) and Chardok
>(Overking/Queen). But those are far more an exp group zone than raid
>zone.
We must be butting heads over definitions here. To me, anything that
requires more than one group to do is raid-level. Vox is raid content.
Nagafen is raid content. Stanos is raid content. Maybe none of these things
are raid content to your guild, as you cannot do them / see no point in
doing them, but it's raid content.
>>Your guild may have progressed past wanting most of it, but frankly at the
>>level your guild is at you can't really expect there to be much loot you'd
>>die to have, can you?
>
>Sure there is.
>Guild of 50+ people, you gotta hit ToVN quite a few times to outfit
>everyone you know...
And the Velious kings, and the odd turtle slaying. Compare with all the
loot in the game - not talking about a lot, are we? And when you kill the
named stuff after Aary, how many rots do you have? "A Young Halfling says,
'Thanks for the Whitestone Shield, Sang!'"
James
Davian
>
> >SG, you can use the "self-succor" tactic.
>
> Your server must have slack GMs. On our server you get the big boot in
> the ass for trying crap like that. And they DO like to hang out invis and
> /anon just to catch folks.
You're the second person to post this now.
I have never, ever heard that you would get in trouble for using Succor or
Egress to evac to the other side of SG. I mean, this is what the damn spell
is designed for. To take you or your group to a specified point in the zone.
How the hell can they say it's an exploit to cast the spell as it's designed?
Or am I not understanding what you mean by the "self succor" tactic, something
that turns it into an exploit?
James
Davian wrote in message <9qi9hs$3d3$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>...
>"James" <jamesg...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:Kf1z7.3581$%K4.8...@news1.telusplanet.net...
>
>>
>> >SG, you can use the "self-succor" tactic.
>>
>> Your server must have slack GMs. On our server you get the big boot
in
>> the ass for trying crap like that. And they DO like to hang out invis and
>> /anon just to catch folks.
>
>You're the second person to post this now.
>
something
>that turns it into an exploit?
Sit and camp in the corner near the zone, and when you come back you can
end up on the far side of the zone. THAT is "self succor". It's an exploit,
pure and simple.
James
Sang K. Choe
<jere...@NOSPAM.bbi.com> wrote:
>>If I can make this run naked with a level 5 warrior, you can make the
>>same run at level 45+.
>
>You ran a naked warrior to DN? I assume you had a guardian casting SoW
>and invis at least. The question is why? What no-drop twink piece is
>good enough to go through the trouble?
It was a bet.
Besides, I was bored silly anyways.
SoW potion, invis potion and a mage to summon me one ring of lev. God
damn SG poofs lev which is very annoying.
-- Sang.
Sang K. Choe
<dav...@mindspringNOSPAM.com> wrote:
>Or am I not understanding what you mean by the "self succor" tactic, something
>that turns it into an exploit?
There are MANY zones where the world geometry is fubarred. If you sit
too close to a wall and camp, you will log back in "out of the world"
and be moved to a safe spot--which happens to be the same place
Egress/Succor drops you.
This same "bug" is what gets people's corpses bugged to hell and back
in ToV.
-- Sang.
Matt Frisch
>On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:57:02 GMT, "James" <jamesg...@home.com>
>wrote:
>>...To them killing Velketor is useful,
>>killing Lord Bob is useful, going after Zlandicar is useful, and they aren't
>>single-group mobs.
>
>Lord Bob is.
>One group capped him last night.
People call him Bob on your server too?
It really isn't all that hard: Doljonijiarnimorinar. I've tried to /surname
it, but it is too many characters....having been tinkering with a way to
get to the 18 character limit without sacrificing the essence of the name.
And no, I did not go look it up to post here :)
Ben wilson
writes
>> "The Vision" was to make the game more enjoyable/playable to groups vice
>> solo. The maximum single group size is six. The game has been expanded
>> disproportionately to REQUIRE (at 50+) groups larger than six. Does this
>> make sense? It forces the higher end characters to join guilds in order to
>> (almost 55) but there are few places for a [single] group to actually hunt.
>
>There are definitely places where a single group of six can hunt well
>into the fifties (Skyfire, Cobalt Scar, and Sol B come to mind) and
>obviously other places where you'll want a raid force. (ToV, et. al.) As
>to being "forced" to join guilds, I dont' think "forced" is the right
>word, but yes, it's a multiplayer game and the guild system was built
>into it for a reason.
Add to those:
Sebilis, Howling Stones, Siren's Grotto, Dragon Necropolis, Velk's Lab,
geos/sents in Wakening Lands, Guards in ThurgB upper or more mobs in the
basement, Dorfs in Great Divide (or if you're on dorf faction, lay waste
to the mobs in Kael), and of course, the new revamped Chardok.
A highly skilled, well equipped 6-man high-50s group can also add
Western Wastes, Fear and Hate to the list, as well as tougher, less
travelled areas of the above zones like Juggs in Seb
Now compare this to pre-Kunark. You had the amazing choice of TWO zones
from 40-50: LGuk or SolB. As an ogre doing it before the existance of
shrink potions or cobalt bracers, yet after the guise nerf, I had the
choice reduced to LGuk or LGuk for 10 levels.
--
***********************
* Demorgoth Demonia *
* Wielder of Jaelen's Katana *
* L60 Warlord [Ogre] *
* <Dark Horizon> Officer *
* Zebuxurok Server *
**********************
Ben wilson
Chriest <dchriest@!NOSPAM!Home.com> writes
I gues you haven't been to nToV where the 3 rogue group gets the exp
from a red mob every few minutes. A decent run can net several k plat as
well as over a yellow of exp. Add in a 'minimum %' of exp for each mob
killed, spread it around the raid, and everyone benefits. As it is now
some get major exp gain on a raid, and some (pullers, MTs etc.) get
major exp loss.
The 'easiest' sticking plaster solution however, is just a raid-invite
yes/no box for a specific raid communication channel, which is what I
expect will happen.
Ben wilson
Chriest <dchriest@!NOSPAM!Home.com> writes
>> I believe Verant has said that SoL is going to offer you what you're looking
>> for.
>
> ???? SoL as far as i know, won't offer much for the 50+ crowd. Please
>tell me I'm wrong.
You are wrong );o)
VI has stated that there will be plenty of L50+ content in SoL, only it
will be tailored for 1 or 2 group efforts, rather than 60-person raids
like ToV
Ben wilson
<jamesg...@home.com> writes
>>Sebilis is used a lot. It does not have all these.
>
> Seb is one zone away from the EJ port. When one zones in, no mobs are
>within aggro range unless a player has pulled them there. The faction lost
>only hoses you in that dungeon. And the loot was an EC staple, and still has
>fair value. So which is it missing?
Sebilis was *the* high level zone to hunt in well before the recent
changes making EJ a 'port from anywhere' point. It used to be; either
get a port to Dreadlands and run through DL,FV,SoNH,TT to get there (all
but 1 are zones where you can easily die without SoW/invis), or run from
the DL port, zone into Karnors, get ANOTHER port to EJ, run through EJ
and TT. It also has an annoying one way zone which means once you're in,
you ain't getting out without a port or a LOT of luck during non-
primetime.
Ben wilson
<sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> writes
>Only VP, ST and ToV would be considered strictly raid only zones.
People very rarely go to VP any more because of the 2 min guard respawn
and Phara being the only mob worth killing once can do to ToV.
ST is a single 3-hour raid per week zone.
ToV is the only timesink raid zone, and you can have 3 raids at once
without much trouble. Shame they aren't expanding on that model in SoL,
because IMO it's the best designed high level zone in the game, by a
large margin
Ben wilson
<sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> writes
> It makes you realize that "what
>strange things" isn't a trap, but rather a way to break the fucking
>tedium.
LMAO!
>You do realize that you CAN hunt in ST with just one group right? ST
>is far from the toughest zone in the game. Infact, it's marginally
>more difficult than DN in some ways.
OK, now you're being pedantic ):oP
Just because you CAN kill them with 6 people, what's the point of being
there more than twice from lack of keys. Spend a week or so
concentrating on first broods and go whack MotG at the very least heh
>It's only the last warder that require a full raid calibre force...I'm
>convinced in a straight up fight, Ventani is tougher than Vyemm.
IMO Zlexak is the baddest mob in ToV. Vyemm is just a simple case of
agro-management and heal timing. Your MT lives long enough, you win -
simple. We've even killed Vyemm without a single non-pet death, and
since people know Vuulak is next up, attendance isn't usually a problem.
Zlex still causes CRs if we get unlucky or there's a little too much lag
to gauge breaths successfully. Ventani is a little contentious (wake
sleeper or leave another up, if so which do we leave up?) in the guild
right now. We've had one half-hearted attempt (first was a gung-ho
CHARGE! for the hell of it, second was more planned, but we got agro
wrong and he ate the healers (always a bad sign)) and know what's
needed, just DAoC has hit us hard
>
>> There may be few raid-only zones, but there is a TON of raid-only
>>content out there. And the same cannot be said of XP-group content for the
>>post-54 crowd.
>
>There are a shitload more XP-group content than raid content. BY A
>HUGE MARGIN.
>
Agreed
Ben wilson
<cro...@earthlink.net> writes
>I think I recall McQuaid saying they wee working on some sort of Raid
>communication channel for SOL. Not sure if its going in or its status
>though. Agree about the 1 group areas though.
They stated it's not being worked on for SoL release, but that it's high
priority for development and then patching once SoL is up and running I
believe.
Jeremiah Kristal
OK, that makes sense then. I keep thinking I'm going to run my twink
warrior to Icewell Keep and outfit him, or at least have him loot and
destroy the stuff rather than the damn zone beggars. It's amazing how
the first beggar I run into there is someone I was guilded with 18
months ago, who begged then. The really funny part is that he's only
about 5 levels higher and still in crappy gear.
Speaking of lev poofing, I've noticed that DMF stays up, even in
Velk's Lab. Damn necros should be nerfed!
Arolpin Lorespinner
57 bard
Ed Bradley
"Ben wilson" <bwi...@armoury1.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:hZD1dCAa...@armoury1.demon.co.uk...
Here's a list of things that do exist:
1) Places where a group of 6 can go for good exp and fun all the way to
level 60
2) Places where large guilds can go for organised raids and face the baddest
of bad mobs for the best items.
3) Easy, safe, convenient zones for pickup groups all the way to 60.
Here are things that don't exist:
1) Places where soloers can get the best items in the game
2) Places where pickup groups can hunt for the best items in the game
3) Giant, impressive, scarey monsters that few people will ever see yet can
be hunted by single groups.
The game never requires you to join a guild unless you really want to raid.
If you don't want to raid you can get to 60 and have all the fun you want
along the way, but you will never be as well-dressed as members of a raiding
guild.
Now, there _may_ (MAY) be a disproportionate amount of raid content in SoV
but there will be less in SoL. As is said elsewhere though, a lot of this
'Raid Content' is not exclusively for raid sized groups e.g there are
raid-level mobs in many many zones yet the rest of the zone is for single
groups. This applies from Permafrost to Dragon Necropolis. The number of
'stricly raid only no groups viable here' zones is in single figures even
counting the old Planes. And why complain about the amount of high level
content anyway, when sooner or later everyone gets to 60 and needs to find
something to do. . .
This isn't a specific rant at anyone, just some observations :)
Dan Harmon
"Matt Frisch" <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:3bcd2937...@news.earthlink.net...
> People call him Bob on your server too?
>
> It really isn't all that hard: Doljonijiarnimorinar. I've tried to
/surname
> it, but it is too many characters....having been tinkering with a way to
> get to the 18 character limit without sacrificing the essence of the name.
>
> And no, I did not go look it up to post here :)
We call him Lord Mustard on Zeb ("Lord Dijon" or "Lord
Dasflasjdfasdflkdeiowi" if formal).
I have a feeling the same guy that named him is the same guy who named our
server Zeburoxuk (assuming I spelled it right). NO imagination, just start
pounding keys!
James
Ben wilson wrote in message ...
>In article <SMFx7.227$Zb.1...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>, Darren
>Chriest <dchriest@!NOSPAM!Home.com> writes
>>> I believe Verant has said that SoL is going to offer you what you're
looking
>>> for.
>>
>> ???? SoL as far as i know, won't offer much for the 50+ crowd. Please
>>tell me I'm wrong.
>
>You are wrong );o)
>
>VI has stated that there will be plenty of L50+ content in SoL, only it
>will be tailored for 1 or 2 group efforts, rather than 60-person raids
>like ToV
There will also be a "hardest zone in the game" zone, and likely each of
the three factions' leaders will be equal in difficulty to the
Dain/Tormax/Yelinak.
James
James
Ben wilson wrote in message ...
>
>without much trouble. Shame they aren't expanding on that model in SoL,
>because IMO it's the best designed high level zone in the game, by a
>large margin
Even counting all the geometry issues? 8)
They HAVE said that there will be a "hardest zone in EQ" in SoL. The
only question is will it support multiple raids the way ToV can.
James
Sang K. Choe
<bwi...@armoury1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>It's only the last warder that require a full raid calibre force...I'm
>>convinced in a straight up fight, Ventani is tougher than Vyemm.
>
>IMO Zlexak is the baddest mob in ToV. Vyemm is just a simple case of
>agro-management and heal timing. Your MT lives long enough, you win -
>simple.
Are you forgetting the "get flung across the zone if the stupid dragon
is facing the wrong way"?
Zlexak isn't hard, the key is treat him like Hoshkar. Forget about
cute, subtle or any sort of finesse. It's all about raw firepower
with that one...kinda reminds me of Sontalak.
But you're right, Zlexak is ALWAYS a messy fight.
Ventani is in my mind the toughest dragon in the game. Basically he
combines Zlexak and Lady Mir in one--except the damn AoEs are harder
to resist.
-- Sang.
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
I hope to hell not.
The problem with ToV is the stupid "anti-zone crash AoE" code which
they HAD to put in because of the idiotic zone design.
Verant couldn't keep the damn zone from crashing so when you have a
lot of people in the zone, the number of dragon AoE drops
SIGNIFICANTLY.
I remember one time when there were about 150 people in ToV. One
guild who were killing Lendiniara reported *3* AoE the entire fight.
3 AoEs from Lendiniara is just plain stupid and basically make her a
gimp (more so than she is now).
-- Sang.
Ben wilson
<sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> writes
>>>It's only the last warder that require a full raid calibre force...I'm
>>>convinced in a straight up fight, Ventani is tougher than Vyemm.
>>
>>IMO Zlexak is the baddest mob in ToV. Vyemm is just a simple case of
>>agro-management and heal timing. Your MT lives long enough, you win -
>>simple.
>
>Are you forgetting the "get flung across the zone if the stupid dragon
>is facing the wrong way"?
Not forgetting at all. Agro-management means dragon facing the right
way. I rarely get punted, and hold agro 100% (using Sceptre/Jaelen last
night, also used Jaelen/NevHorn with the same effect).
I tanked him for the duration not 3 hours ago hehe. Our tactic means the
MT doesn't get punted OOR 90% of the time. In fact, last night I was
only punted OOR twice, and was instantly summoned right back both times.
Kill took 3min30sec - I died first at 3m10secs, 1 quad after disc wore
off LOL.
I could tell he was looking at me funny, because he had 2 left eyes...
>
>Zlexak isn't hard, the key is treat him like Hoshkar. Forget about
>cute, subtle or any sort of finesse. It's all about raw firepower
>with that one...kinda reminds me of Sontalak.
>
>But you're right, Zlexak is ALWAYS a messy fight.
>
>Ventani is in my mind the toughest dragon in the game. Basically he
>combines Zlexak and Lady Mir in one--except the damn AoEs are harder
>to resist.
Oh, almost forgot - Most annoying dragon on ToV is Lady Spin-you-round.
I hate he with a vengeance heh
Dream King
>On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:43:24 GMT, "James" <jamesg...@home.com>
>wrote:
>
>> They HAVE said that there will be a "hardest zone in EQ" in SoL. The
>>only question is will it support multiple raids the way ToV can.
>
>I hope to hell not.
>The problem with ToV is the stupid "anti-zone crash AoE" code which
>they HAD to put in because of the idiotic zone design.
And your source for this is what? I don't recall Vernat saying they did
such a thing but I could have missed it.
>I remember one time when there were about 150 people in ToV. One
>guild who were killing Lendiniara reported *3* AoE the entire fight.
I think it's all random. A few times we've fought other dragons
(Gorenaire, Hoshkar, Phara Dar) and they only got 1 AoE off. True, they
only have 32k and die fairly fast, but in a few instances they had
rather long gaps where they could have AoEd but didn't. I think the last
time we killed Lendiniara she got off a lot more than 3 and there was
about the same amount of people there.
Dream King
>> I should have been more specific. The sirens outside in CS are what I
>>was talking about by "guarded zone-in point".
>
>These don't see invis and can be trivially outrun with SoW.
Assuming you have invis and sow.
>Well, HS has that retarded key requirement which makes it a pain...not
>to mention I just forgot. Gives you an idea how many 45 - 55 zones
>there are.
It's this "retarded key requirement" which makes the zone more
enjoyable. It keeps the idiot level low.
>SG, you can use the "self-succor" tactic.
Sure if you want a GM jumping on your ass.
>Fear and Hate as I said are no longer raid zones unless you plan on
>taking out CT/Inny. Those zones have level 49 to 51 mobs which are
>about the same as krups/ilis in Sebilis (I'm not referring to the
>second floor of hate as the pathing there alone makes it a real pain
>in the ass). Referring Fear/Hate as a "raid" zone is like referring
>to jail spawn in Sebilis as a raid zone.
Bull. People still 'raid' Fear and Hate daily. Perhaps you're too uber
for those zones but a lot of people aren't.
>Sky is just a mindnumbing torture. It makes you realize that "what
>strange things" isn't a trap, but rather a way to break the fucking
>tedium. Raid Sky? Not in this life time, ever again.
I'll agree with you on Sky. Unfortunately some people still need to go
there for epic parts.
Sang K. Choe
<bwi...@armoury1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Not forgetting at all. Agro-management means dragon facing the right
>way. I rarely get punted, and hold agro 100% (using Sceptre/Jaelen last
>night, also used Jaelen/NevHorn with the same effect).
I know the tactic, however it's very easy to get tossed, have him turn
to another, toss that stupid fling, and everyone goes to hell and
back.
Basically, with Vyemm, it's not so much aggro control as mob
placement. Once he's in position, he's drop dead easy. Out of
position, chances of getting screwed is pretty good.
>Oh, almost forgot - Most annoying dragon on ToV is Lady Spin-you-round.
>I hate he with a vengeance heh
That's Lady Neve.
Lady Mir is the fear that isn't a fear.
-- Sang.
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
>>These don't see invis and can be trivially outrun with SoW.
>
> Assuming you have invis and sow.
Yeah, god forbid you can't afford a few plats for potions.
>>Well, HS has that retarded key requirement which makes it a pain...not
>>to mention I just forgot. Gives you an idea how many 45 - 55 zones
>>there are.
>
> It's this "retarded key requirement" which makes the zone more
>enjoyable. It keeps the idiot level low.
I see.
You have to be a genius to camp a 2 hour spawn in LOIO and camp a 30
min mob in Kaesora. Forgot that requirement.
Try "high tolerance for tedium".
> Bull. People still 'raid' Fear and Hate daily.
People "raid" EL, Fire Giants, and Phinny as well. What's your point?
> I'll agree with you on Sky. Unfortunately some people still need to go
>there for epic parts.
Yeah, real useful those epics....to be promptly banked within 2 weeks
of getting it.
-- Sang.
Wolfie
"Sang K. Choe" wrote
> (Dream King) wrote
> > I'll agree with you on Sky. Unfortunately some people still need to go
> >there for epic parts.
>
> Yeah, real useful those epics....to be promptly banked within 2 weeks
> of getting it.
I've never heard of a mage banking his epic....
Dream King
>On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:08:47 GMT, morp...@cent.com (Dream King)
>wrote:
>
>>>These don't see invis and can be trivially outrun with SoW.
>>
>> Assuming you have invis and sow.
>
>Yeah, god forbid you can't afford a few plats for potions.
Yeah. God forbid. They just aren't as wise as you.
>> It's this "retarded key requirement" which makes the zone more
>>enjoyable. It keeps the idiot level low.
>
>I see.
>You have to be a genius to camp a 2 hour spawn in LOIO and camp a 30
>min mob in Kaesora. Forgot that requirement.
>
>Try "high tolerance for tedium".
Who said anything about being a genius to do it? All I said is the key
requirement keeps the level down. Even before Velious when Sebilis was
over camped Charasis would be nearly empty. I'm all for keyed dungeons.
As far as tedium goes, HS was nothing compared to the VP key.
>> Bull. People still 'raid' Fear and Hate daily.
>
>People "raid" EL, Fire Giants, and Phinny as well. What's your point?
My point is try getting your head out of your ass sometime and realize
not everyone is playing at the same level. But I'm guessing that's
probably too hard for you to do so nevermind.
>> I'll agree with you on Sky. Unfortunately some people still need to go
>>there for epic parts.
>
>Yeah, real useful those epics....to be promptly banked within 2 weeks
>of getting it.
Oh thats right I forgot. You people are too uber for that. Some people
like to accomplish things in EQ not just kill easily accessible crap for
the phat lewts like you seem to do.
Celaeno
Choe):
>On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:08:47 GMT, morp...@cent.com (Dream King)
>wrote:
>> I'll agree with you on Sky. Unfortunately some people still need to go
>>there for epic parts.
>
>Yeah, real useful those epics....to be promptly banked within 2 weeks
>of getting it.
Fine. What do you have in primary hand? Or are you just trashing
'those' epics that require Sky raids?
Celaeno Duskwalker
Fier'dal wanderer of Erollisi Marr
David Navarro
> You will not evade me, sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com (Sang K.
> Choe):
>
>>On Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:08:47 GMT, morp...@cent.com (Dream King)
>>wrote:
>
>>> I'll agree with you on Sky. Unfortunately some people still need to go
>>>there for epic parts.
>>
>>Yeah, real useful those epics....to be promptly banked within 2 weeks
>>of getting it.
>
> Fine. What do you have in primary hand? Or are you just trashing
> 'those' epics that require Sky raids?
Doesn't the Mage epic require Sky raids? That's a really nice one, AFAIK.
--
Hanrahan Thornhide, Druid, Fennin Ro.
Parsifal, Bard, Fennin Ro.
Molgarin, Magician, Firiona Vie.
Sang K. Choe
(Celaeno) wrote:
>Fine. What do you have in primary hand?
I either swap out a priceless warhammer, baledyn's bane or sprinkler
of spirits. Scimmy is about the most useless thing I can think of.
>Or are you just trashing
>'those' epics that require Sky raids?
Generally all epics since aside for maybe four class epics, every
other is useless or better alternatives are available for FAR less
effort.
-- Sang.
Mark A. Rimer
news:3bd22b83....@news.isomedia.com...
> Generally all epics since aside for maybe four class epics, every
> other is useless or better alternatives are available for FAR less
> effort.
1) Cleric
2) Rogue
3) Bard
4) ??
Sang K. Choe
<locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> Generally all epics since aside for maybe four class epics, every
>> other is useless or better alternatives are available for FAR less
>> effort.
>
>1) Cleric
>2) Rogue
>3) Bard
>4) ??
Enchanter.
Hard to beat manaless buff to get all your meleers to max haste.
-- Sang.
Celaeno
Choe):
>On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 23:16:07 GMT, cel...@shavenwookie.nospam.com
>(Celaeno) wrote:
>
>>Fine. What do you have in primary hand?
>
>I either swap out a priceless warhammer, baledyn's bane or sprinkler
>of spirits. Scimmy is about the most useless thing I can think of.
Ok, so the sprinkler has nicer resists, and I have never heard of
Baledyn's Bane before. However, I can't see how a warhammer would be
better. And, since we aren't all level 60s in charge of uberguilds (my
guild isn't even raid capable), how much 'less effort' would getting
those three things entail?
>>Or are you just trashing
>>'those' epics that require Sky raids?
>
>Generally all epics since aside for maybe four class epics, every
>other is useless or better alternatives are available for FAR less
>effort.
And those four would be?
Sang K. Choe
(Celaeno) wrote:
>Ok, so the sprinkler has nicer resists, and I have never heard of
>Baledyn's Bane before. However, I can't see how a warhammer would be
>better.
13/20, AC5, 5 to all stats/resists, some hps/mana. Drops off random
crap in ST, killable with one group. It's close, sure as hell less
tedious to get than the druid epic.
>And, since we aren't all level 60s in charge of uberguilds (my
>guild isn't even raid capable), how much 'less effort' would getting
>those three things entail?
The sprinkler drops off probably the easiest (or maybe the second
easiest) dragon in ToVN. 30 people can trivially drop him *AND* get
other fairly decent loots, not the least of which is that stupid
silver chains.
>And those four would be?
Freebringer - too easy NOT to get it and the +ATK on it means even
rogues with access to better weapons will opt to at the very least
offhand this poker.
Snake on a stick - haste buffs cost a LOT of mana. Manafree haste
buff means you need a bare minimum of enchanters per raid to get every
meleer haste capped.
Rez stick - for the obvious reasons.
Bards - mainly because they whine a lot if you don't get it for them.
:)
-- Sang.
hughes
> other is useless or better alternatives are available for FAR less
> effort.
usefull epics are
cleric
chanter
monk
ranger kinda nifty for slow and haste
cleric and chanter epics only real usefull for raids .
Richard
OK, so given that, what should my Shaman be aspiring to have as a weapon
someday? I would assume that it is not necessarily a great melee weapon.
--
Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Shaman of 38 seasons, Erollisi Marr
Tainneal, Halfling Warrior of 22 seasons, Erollisi Marr
Ganwein, Wood Elf Ranger of 10 seasons, Erollisi Marr
(I should let OE spell correct my names, it wants to make me Graeme
Fleabane, and Gnawing.)
Mark A. Rimer
> Freebringer - too easy NOT to get it and the +ATK on it means even
> rogues with access to better weapons will opt to at the very least
> offhand this poker.
Don't forget the haste. Being able to hold a haste item in a weapon
slot leaves all those clothing slots for AC/Resists gear.
Davian
"Richard" <richar...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:9r18bc$qbokp$1...@ID-111521.news.dfncis.de...
> "Sang K. Choe" <sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> wrote in message
> news:3bd882dc....@news.isomedia.com...
> > On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 21:02:46 -0500, "Mark A. Rimer"
> > <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> Generally all epics since aside for maybe four class epics, every
> > >> other is useless or better alternatives are available for FAR less
> > >> effort.
> > >
> > >1) Cleric
> > >2) Rogue
> > >3) Bard
> > >4) ??
> >
> > Enchanter.
> > Hard to beat manaless buff to get all your meleers to max haste.
> >
> > -- Sang.
>
> OK, so given that, what should my Shaman be aspiring to have as a weapon
> someday? I would assume that it is not necessarily a great melee weapon.
>
Actually, considering the Shaman epic is one of the easiest, you should most
definitely get it.
Just don't be suprised when you find out an extra 1200? 1500? point DoT
isn't all that terribly useful in the grand scheme of things.
Richard
news:9r1hbl$14u$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
It would be damned useful right now. Couldn't say about when I can actually
get the epic though. I am actually planning on getting it, just because
it's there. Got started quite some time ago, been doing it as I happen to
be in the appropriate areas, and have time.
Mark A. Rimer
most
> definitely get it.
> Just don't be suprised when you find out an extra 1200? 1500? point DoT
> isn't all that terribly useful in the grand scheme of things.
Actually, when the epic was right-clicking a 1500pt HEAL over time
spell, it was even more useful...
;-)
Davian
"Mark A. Rimer" <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:9k_A7.3240$cj7.1...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
A couple of friends are epic shamans.
One kept insisting "The shaman epic is working as intended" and made us all
repeat it over and over again.
The others only comment was "PIG IN HEAVEN!!!"
Mark A. Rimer
> > Actually, when the epic was right-clicking a 1500pt HEAL over time
> > spell, it was even more useful...
> A couple of friends are epic shamans.
> One kept insisting "The shaman epic is working as intended" and made us
all
> repeat it over and over again.
> The others only comment was "PIG IN HEAVEN!!!"
Funny...the comment I remember was,
"Inc Celestial-Heal-on-crack to %T"
;-)
Matt Frisch
into the ether:
>
>Ben wilson wrote in message ...
>>In article <SMFx7.227$Zb.1...@news1.sttln1.wa.home.com>, Darren
>>Chriest <dchriest@!NOSPAM!Home.com> writes
>>>> I believe Verant has said that SoL is going to offer you what you're
>looking
>>>> for.
>>>
>>> ???? SoL as far as i know, won't offer much for the 50+ crowd. Please
>>>tell me I'm wrong.
>>
>>You are wrong );o)
>>
>>VI has stated that there will be plenty of L50+ content in SoL, only it
>>will be tailored for 1 or 2 group efforts, rather than 60-person raids
>>like ToV
>
> There will also be a "hardest zone in the game" zone, and likely each of
>the three factions' leaders will be equal in difficulty to the
>Dain/Tormax/Yelinak.
It has since been stated that the leader of the shissar is an Avatar of War
type encounter...and 10 charmed tormaxes couldn't take the AoW.
Matt Frisch
Rogue epic is replaced by NToV/ST drops.
Cleric epic becomes a "wield to rez" item, there is a mace with better
stats that drops in ToV, just it doesn't have the proc.
bard...well, there is no substitute there, the bard epic is ungodly.
The 4th (although actually second, cause rogue and cleric epics get
replaced), would be enchanter...shissar is the best haste in the game, and
doesn't cost a drop of mana.
Matt Frisch
scribed into the ether:
>"Richard" <richar...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>news:9r18bc$qbokp$1...@ID-111521.news.dfncis.de...
>> "Sang K. Choe" <sa...@choenet.com.remove.this.com> wrote in message
>> news:3bd882dc....@news.isomedia.com...
>> > On Sat, 20 Oct 2001 21:02:46 -0500, "Mark A. Rimer"
>> > <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> OK, so given that, what should my Shaman be aspiring to have as a weapon
>> someday? I would assume that it is not necessarily a great melee weapon.
>>
>
>Actually, considering the Shaman epic is one of the easiest, you should most
>definitely get it.
The sprinkler of spirits from ToV is mostly a resist piece anyway.
>Just don't be suprised when you find out an extra 1200? 1500? point DoT
>isn't all that terribly useful in the grand scheme of things.
1250 pt splurt-style DoT over 90 seconds. It is almost exclusively a
soloing effect, since the DoT takes so damn long to do noticeable damage,
that stuff is usually dead by melee before the dot can get halfway done.
Also nice for the multi-100k hp mobs (various dragons, some PoG nameds),
since they'll live long enough for several applications of the DoT.
Matt Frisch
<locu...@bellsouth.net> scribed into the ether:
Funk dat:
http://mmo.gameznet.com/eq/new/equipment/lazy/windraidersbelt.shtml
The haste on that belt is, as I recall, 46%, which is better (considerably)
than ragebringer haste.
Sang K. Choe
<richar...@netscape.net> wrote:
>OK, so given that, what should my Shaman be aspiring to have as a weapon
>someday? I would assume that it is not necessarily a great melee weapon.
Anything with decent resists, hps and AC and in that order.
-- Sang.
Sang K. Choe
>Don't forget the haste. Being able to hold a haste item in a weapon
>slot leaves all those clothing slots for AC/Resists gear.
Some of the best belts and gloves in the game have 40% (or more) haste
on them.
-- Sang.
Sang K. Choe
wrote:
>> Generally all epics since aside for maybe four class epics, every
>> other is useless or better alternatives are available for FAR less
>> effort.
>
>usefull epics are
>cleric
>chanter
Correct on these two.
>monk
>ranger kinda nifty for slow and haste
Horse crap on these.
Haste is not useful since practically every meleer at a level that can
get the epic should have dragon level haste or better. And some of
the best haste items in the game are armors.
Monk epic is only useful as a decent ratio weapon--a weapon which
quickly becomes not so great compare to other items in game which are
about the same level of difficulty in obtaining.
>cleric and chanter epics only real usefull for raids .
At level 60, there's very little else to do and level 60 comes VERY
quickly these days.
-- Sang.
Sang K. Choe
Frisch) wrote:
>Rogue epic is replaced by NToV/ST drops.
None of our rogues are willing to lose the +ATK from their
freebringer.
Not even the guy who has Vyemm's Fang + primal spear. He'll swap out
the fang and spear after avatar procs.
-- Sang.
Mark A. Rimer
Yah...what he said. 'cept I don't have a Fang...I still don't want to
lose the +ATK or the haste from my RB. (1) Direct ATK buffs
are almost impossible to find, and (2) I sold my CoF when I got
my RB...it's the only haste item I currently have.
Mark A. Rimer
news:3bd4fe86...@news.earthlink.net...
> Funk dat:
> http://mmo.gameznet.com/eq/new/equipment/lazy/windraidersbelt.shtml
>
> The haste on that belt is, as I recall, 46%, which is better
(considerably)
> than ragebringer haste.
Except for one teensy, tiny thing: I don't have one. Nor does anybody
I know. Which does not mean that you're not correct, just that it doesn't
apply in many situations.
My guild is decidedly un-uber. But with a level 60 rogue, you can get
invited along on a lot of not-my-guild-but-a-friend's type of raids.
I rarely get loot of any kind on a end-game type of raid (hell, I just
picked
up a Bone Razor from Fear 3 weeks ago...it went to my level 44 rogue
because I 'member when Bone Razor was the shiznit for a rogue before
Kunark and I couldn't stand to see it just sold away). Which is balanced
out because I not only get to see some of these encounters for when the
rest of my guild or my alt's guild gets up that high I'll have some
experience
there, but from level 55 on I was constently in the KS group and got
the exp for the encounters, anyway ;-).
James
Matt Frisch wrote in message <3bd4fc30...@news.earthlink.net>...
of
>>the three factions' leaders will be equal in difficulty to the
>>Dain/Tormax/Yelinak.
>
>It has since been stated that the leader of the shissar is an Avatar of War
>type encounter...and 10 charmed tormaxes couldn't take the AoW.
But could Kerafyrm? Time for a motivated guild to set the encounter up.
8)
Are the Shissar going to be one of the three factions one can join with?
I was under the impression the three were Evil Combine Empire, Good Combine
Empire, Va'Shir. The shissar (who look awesome in the screenshots, BTW) were
"extras". No?
James
Matt Frisch
<locu...@bellsouth.net> scribed into the ether:
>"Matt Frisch" <matu...@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
>news:3bd4fe86...@news.earthlink.net...
>> Funk dat:
>> http://mmo.gameznet.com/eq/new/equipment/lazy/windraidersbelt.shtml
>>
>> The haste on that belt is, as I recall, 46%, which is better
>(considerably)
>> than ragebringer haste.
>
>Except for one teensy, tiny thing: I don't have one. Nor does anybody
>I know. Which does not mean that you're not correct, just that it doesn't
>apply in many situations.
>
>My guild is decidedly un-uber.
Ah, but the discussion is on uberness here. Obviously for any rogue without
easy access to NToV/Sleeper loot, the ragebringer is the best weapon in the
game. I'm not questioning that :)
Matt Frisch
into the ether:
>
>Matt Frisch wrote in message <3bd4fc30...@news.earthlink.net>...
>>On Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:40:40 GMT, "James" <jamesg...@home.com> scribed
>>into the ether:
>>
>>> There will also be a "hardest zone in the game" zone, and likely each
>of
>>>the three factions' leaders will be equal in difficulty to the
>>>Dain/Tormax/Yelinak.
>>
>>It has since been stated that the leader of the shissar is an Avatar of War
>>type encounter...and 10 charmed tormaxes couldn't take the AoW.
>
> But could Kerafyrm? Time for a motivated guild to set the encounter up.
>8)
The sleeper has been reported to death touch even other mobs...so my guess
is that the sleeper could beat him.
> Are the Shissar going to be one of the three factions one can join with?
>I was under the impression the three were Evil Combine Empire, Good Combine
>Empire, Va'Shir. The shissar (who look awesome in the screenshots, BTW) were
>"extras". No?
Unsure...but if he is not a faction leader (at least, a faction you can
align with), imagine what the real faction leaders are like.
Dream King
>On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:27:26 GMT, "hughes" <hugh...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>>monk
>>ranger kinda nifty for slow and haste
>
>Horse crap on these.
>Haste is not useful since practically every meleer at a level that can
>get the epic should have dragon level haste or better. And some of
>the best haste items in the game are armors.
Does it matter? For Monks, epic haste is song based. In other words it
stacks with "dragon level haste or better" or any other item-based
haste. For non-raid situations where you have have a shisshar giving
gimp then it becomes less useful for haste. However the ac/atk increases
are still nice to have.
>Monk epic is only useful as a decent ratio weapon--a weapon which
>quickly becomes not so great compare to other items in game which are
>about the same level of difficulty in obtaining.
Perhaps. I seldom use fists. However I can use any weapon I want and
still get the stats/effect/haste from my epic. Horse crap? Whatever.
James
Matt Frisch wrote in message <3bd61f5...@news.earthlink.net>...
with?
>>I was under the impression the three were Evil Combine Empire, Good
Combine
>>Empire, Va'Shir. The shissar (who look awesome in the screenshots, BTW)
were
>>"extras". No?
>
>Unsure...but if he is not a faction leader (at least, a faction you can
>align with), imagine what the real faction leaders are like.
AoW isn't a faction leader, and as you pointed out could punt Tormax on
any given day.
James
Celaeno
Choe):
>On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:05:09 GMT, cel...@shavenwookie.nospam.com
>(Celaeno) wrote:
>
>>Ok, so the sprinkler has nicer resists, and I have never heard of
>>Baledyn's Bane before. However, I can't see how a warhammer would be
>>better.
>
>13/20, AC5, 5 to all stats/resists, some hps/mana. Drops off random
>crap in ST, killable with one group. It's close, sure as hell less
>tedious to get than the druid epic.
>
>>And, since we aren't all level 60s in charge of uberguilds (my
>>guild isn't even raid capable), how much 'less effort' would getting
>>those three things entail?
>
>The sprinkler drops off probably the easiest (or maybe the second
>easiest) dragon in ToVN. 30 people can trivially drop him *AND* get
>other fairly decent loots, not the least of which is that stupid
>silver chains.
I am at least 7 levels away from getting even a remote chance at
becoming able to go to either of those places. I could quite possibly
have my epic by then (my current goal is elaborate scimitar).
Heck, I had to look up the gloves of earthcrafting quest last night, I
had looked at it once before and not bothered concerning myself, since
it required the head of Derakor and I didn't exactly expect to be able
to get *that* for quite a while. As it happened, I got the chance to
mooch faction at an uberguild's Derakor raid last night, and they
didn't need the thing, so now I have to ding 55 and hunt priests
- and hopefully those mittens won't be considered trash by Your
Highnessness :p
(Derakor is really a pinhead. His noggin only weighs 1.0, and it fits
in a medium container.)
Matt Frisch
into the ether:
>
>Matt Frisch wrote in message <3bd61f5...@news.earthlink.net>...
>>On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 18:12:50 GMT, "James" <jamesg...@home.com> scribed
>>into the ether:
>>
>>> Are the Shissar going to be one of the three factions one can join
>with?
>>>I was under the impression the three were Evil Combine Empire, Good
>Combine
>>>Empire, Va'Shir. The shissar (who look awesome in the screenshots, BTW)
>were
>>>"extras". No?
>>
>>Unsure...but if he is not a faction leader (at least, a faction you can
>>align with), imagine what the real faction leaders are like.
>
> AoW isn't a faction leader, and as you pointed out could punt Tormax on
>any given day.
Yes, but he is the personal representitive of the god of war, so I'd expect
him to be able to kick much ass and take names.
Generally, the boss is going to be tougher than any of his underlings.