Magician Pets and Higher Levels
Phred
20+. I would like someone who has a higher level magician to comment on
this and feel free to make other general comments on the Magician.
I also read on one of the EQ web pages where a EQ developer was commenting
on the magician and said that the air elemental was the elemental you want
tanking for you http://eq.stratics.com/classes_mag_dis.shtml. What do pets
do people in the group use and to what effect?
I have a magician I just started who is 7th level and I don't want to invest
a whole lot of time into him just to find out he can't cut it at higher
levels.
As I said earlier in the post observations and comments are welcome
especially by those who have high level magicians.
Thanks
David Schrank
powered. My pets are starting to refuse to attack things. This level (level 12
spells) has no efficient damage spells. Groups prefer wizards over you. Your
pets only hit magic 30% of the time. If by chance a monster that cons green or
worse makes it to you, your probably dead unless its badly damaged. Until level
12 things were fine and i thought things were ok. Now I am getting frustrated.
It seems groups really don't want you since your pet can suck exp some times and
other casters do either more damage (wizards) or slightly less but can heal
(druids and shamans). To make it worse when we hit 20, no more easy to find pet
spells. You have to find them and build them. This is ironic because its the
spell that defines our class. I am sticking it out due to stubbornness, but
every day i wonder more and more why.
Mitosis
I am a lvl 13 gnome mage on Rodcet Nife. Already, I am beginning to
become discouraged by the low quality of my pets. Although it always
seems to /con blue to me, there is a significant difference in the
actual level of the pet, which I often won't find out until I am in
battle. Sadly, if the pet dies, I die, unless I can get enough of a
head start to reach the guards.
I have also read the comments of Geoffry Zatkin of Verant on the Mage.
He indicates the different strenghts of the various elemental types
which is finally some good information. The sad thing is, however,
that at almost 7 plat per elemental spell, it is very unlikely that I
will even be able to purchase the lvl 12 set prior to getting to level
16, and a new set of elementals. In effect, us mages see an amazing 4
spells per level become obsolete! Certainly, you will always get new
spells as your character grows, making earlier spells unnecessary, but
4 obsolete spells per new rank of magic seems both expensive and
wasteful. In reality, most mages may find it difficult to buy more
than one elemental per spell rank.
The other problem is that you never can be sure what you will be
facing. Sure, the earth elemental i use can do 16 damage per round,
but he will often take 20-24 damage per round from the Harpy we are
fighting (solo). If I do not burn like a torch for the entire battle,
the Harpy (/cons blue) will kill the elemental, and then proceed to
rip me to shreds. Even then, I have sometimes lost the elemental
dispite my constant burns, and been barely able to kill the mob I am
attacking. (Don't forget that it costs me 13 silver to even cast the
pet at level 12)
So far, I have only tried the fire elemental, and the earth elemental.
At low levels the attacks of these two beasts were similar, with the
exception being that the fire elemental had VERY little heath to
spare, and thus never lasted long in any battle I fought in. I can
see an advantage to a fires shield in a battle with multiple mobs, but
it simply died too quickly in battle. At levels 8 and 12, the earth
elemental was all that I could afford.
I have also found grouping to be a problem, quite possibly due to the
perception that the pet is stealing experience from the group. From
levels 7-10, I would often group with another magic user such as a
wizard, necromancer, or mage. Now that I have reached lvl 13, the
wizards seem to have more luck getting into a group, and grouping with
other pet users will only get us killed. This is especially true if
my pet refuses to even attack the mob. This is somewhat worrysome
since you might think that the pet could provide enough of a
distraction for me to simply gate out of danger. However, if the mob
is red, the pet runs away, leaving me for dead.
Simply, the problem has become that I am not a very popular addition
to a group, and I am not strong enough to solo. Since much of my time
will be spent keeping my pet alive anyhow, you might think that my
direct damage spells would be of some assistance. Sadly, at lvl 12 we
do not recieve a direct damage spell, and instead receive two AOE
spells which are dreadfully underpowered (we do get ward summoned,
but at lvl 12, this spell is not going to be terribly impressive) .
To put it simply, if there are two /con blue mobs attacking your pet,
they will kill the pet, and then kill you, period. Your only chance
at that point is to gate out of there, as the pet does not run away
under these conditions. Thus, you will never get the opportunity to
use these AOE spells, as the recovery time is too long.
Geoffry Zatkin also mentions the fact that we have damage shields.
Indeed, when cast on you pet, it will shorten the battle against mobs
which are affected by fire by up to 10-15% at levels 8-12. When I
cast this spell on a wood elf ranger I was grouped with once in the
Minotaur caves, the biggest effect was that it seemed to so infuriate
the slavers he was fighting, that they would not stop attacking him
when he tried to back away. Thus, against 3 minotaur slavers, one of
us got killed, the other 3 were essentially unharmed, and all 3
slavers died. The ranger asked that I NEVER cast that spell on him
again. Now I only cast this spell on my pet.
The Phantom armor series is something that Geoffry Zatkin also
mentions as an advantage of the mage class. Much like wizards and
necromancers, however, we either emerge from the battle with close to
100% health, or we have been killed. Seldom is there anything in
between this. Again, if the pet dies, you die. Either burn like
hell, or run like hell if the battle seems to be turning.
Another thing...high level pets being research only. Is there even a
need to elaborate? Since I have never seen a high level mage post to
this newsgroup about reseaching pets, I can only assume that it is not
terribly common.
Some of you reading this may feel that this is just more whining about
mages not being as good with direct damage as wizards, or our pets are
not as good as the necromancer, etc. I am just pointing out to a
starting mage that the path ahead is very difficult, and the rewards
in terms of abilities are not very enviable. (well, I am sure most
folks would like to be able summon food and drink!) We mages are not
as pathetic as the enchanter, nor as boring as the monk, nor can the
class be described as truely "broken" like the rogue. We are just
another class that will never be really popular with players, or an
important addition to a good group.
Believe me, after spending all this time getting to level 13 as a
mage, I would LOVE to hear from a high level mage saying that the
future is bright, and I just need to give it a chance!
Meiosis
Discouraged Gnome Mage
Rodcet Nife
Shrike
--
Shrike -IRIX worshipper, Linux dabbler, Windows victim-
Finnegan the Mage in Mith Marr, Parsifal the Bard in Fennin Ro,
Saharrach the Necromancer in Fennin Ro.
TSandrich
said to be very subjective. My sixteen spell level pets vary in strength but
I do receive a chance to con them and see what level they are at. I have spent
a lot of time soloing and find that my technique usually determines if I
suceed or not. If I burn too much too soon, they monster locks on to me, What
I have been doing with the crocs in the Oasis is casting fire shield on my
earth pet before the battle, then calling with the damage spell, then cast a
second damage spell, cast fire shield on me, step in and share the damage
with my pet to keep it alive, then cast last spell to kill the monster. I
don't attack yellows or reds, just blues. I have found that people will group
with me, in fact people do not all act in the same way and some enjoy my
weird mixture of summons and tank and burn. As far as research goes for the
24 level pet, I am concerned to say the least, but be assured that the top
magicians are hard at work on this issue. Hopefully, it will be possible to
find the spells or in the worst case, track down the necessary ingredients to
make them. So, if you enjoy your mage, keep him/her. If not create a cleric
and someone will always want to group with you.
Good Hunting
Edar 19th level
Innoruck
David Schrank
target damage is about the same as theirs. We get the best pets on top of that
they get healing and more defense. I expected to get damage not as good as a
wizard but not as much lower as we do. We do get lots of bizarre fairly useless
freak spells though. For better pets and damage, and acess to pets after level
20, I would give up the useless summoning of items,the over priced phamtom
leather/chain/..., the area spells over time, any elemental but earth. What I
see in our class that is usefull is:
The shock of xxxx spells
The area damage spells on a target monsters
The Earth elemental pet
The gate/invis/armor/ect generic spells everyone gets.
The fire shield if I can actually get it to not expire by the time I attack a
monster.
I would scrap the other useless spells and rethink this class. there is so much
spell fodder in our spells it hurts. Free food and water were nice intially but
I can afford 10 rations of food and water with out a problem now so its no
biggie.
Dan Harmon
liability (so far, I don't).
I usually /con a critter first to make sure my pet will likely attack it.
If I'm not sure after conning, I tell my pet to attack. If he does, I get
into the fight. If he doesn't, then *I* certainly won't. :)
If I'm pretty sure he'll help me fight, I'll Burn the critter.
I WILL TANK FOR MY PET. My pet does more damage than I do, and if the pet
dies, I'm surely dead anyway. Soooo, I do my best to make sure my pet stays
in the fight by making sure the critter has me in its sights until I'm
getting too close to dying, then I back up & let my pet take the damage
while I'm burning the crit.
I do my best to stay in the fight, though. My gnome has a 133 int (max) and
has always had enough mana (when I got Gate at lvl 4, I could do it twice in
a row and still have enough for a couple Burns...my cleric had no where near
that).
Shrike
>
> I have a 14th level magician and I can verify they are starting to be under
> powered. My pets are starting to refuse to attack things. This level (level 12
> spells) has no efficient damage spells. Groups prefer wizards over you. Your
> pets only hit magic 30% of the time. If by chance a monster that cons green or
> worse makes it to you, your probably dead unless its badly damaged. Until level
> 12 things were fine and i thought things were ok. Now I am getting frustrated.
> It seems groups really don't want you since your pet can suck exp some times and
> other casters do either more damage (wizards) or slightly less but can heal
> (druids and shamans). To make it worse when we hit 20, no more easy to find pet
> spells. You have to find them and build them. This is ironic because its the
> spell that defines our class. I am sticking it out due to stubbornness, but
> every day i wonder more and more why.
Except for the food summoning, Magicias can't do anything Necromancers
can't. I found this out the hard way also.
Shrike
>
> >Except for the food summoning, Magicias can't do anything Necromancers
> >can't. I found this out the hard way also.
> >
> >
>
> 16 necro, he got tired of having invisibility wear off and having npcs kill
> him. Now he is playing a level 10 cleric while my magician is up to level 20.
> Something to think about.
> TSandrich
Depends on your race also. My Human Necro is KOS in Rivervale (as I
found out the hard way), but I move freely around Freeport, and I
expect Queynos also.
I wonder if I would be KOS on the Evil Cities of the Trolls and Ogres,
though...
Dan Bongard
> It seems groups really don't want you since your pet can suck exp
> some times and other casters do either more damage (wizards) or
> slightly less but can heal (druids and shamans).
This of this as a benefit; any group with that attitude is
lacking in intelligence, and you wouldn't really want to
be grouped with them anyway. :)
It is true that, in the long run, Magicians don't do the
direct-spell damage that Wizards do. It is fairly close
for most of the way, though, and no group in their right
mind discards a direct damage caster of any kind.
As for the "pet taking XP" issue -- pets take no more
experience than a normal tank does, they are more
reliable, and they don't demand a cut of the loot. A
cleric, a warrior, and a magician is vastly preferable
to a cleric, a magician, and two warriors.
-- Dan
Shrike
Besides, when grouped, pets only share in the xp when they land the
killing blow.
TSandrich
Phred
confirm? If you are grouped with alot of mages with pets that would mean
your group would only have pet leech exp from the group at worst.
Shrike wrote in message <374206C4...@alcaudon.com>...
Jeff K.
Phred wrote in message <7hteo1$a9e$1...@denws02.mw.mediaone.net>...
>Interesting! Where did you hear the killing blow information? Can someone
>confirm? If you are grouped with alot of mages with pets that would mean
>your group would only have pet leech exp from the group at worst.
It's hard to verify directly, but according to everything I've read that is
indeed the case - your pet only takes exp when it lands the final blow. I'm
betting this rule was put in place so people wouldn't be so reluctant to
group with magicians. It's a fairly easy matter to tell your pet to back off
once it's clear the a battle is won. In the meantime, the group has a source
of mana-free damage AND an extra tank to absorb hits that is a bit more
disposable than party members (though any mage worth his salt does his
damndest to make sure his pet doesn't die). Plus, the pet can be used as a
distraction if the party needs to flee from battle.
I can't imagine why people don't like grouping with magicians. Mine has more
than proved his worth in any group he's travelled with. Granted, he's only
level 10, but a quick look through my future spells shows that I continue to
get direct damage spells from level 16 and onward, and with new pets that
alone will make me an asset to any party. Add in the damage shields
(extremely useful, despite what some naysayers maintain - it easily lasts
the duration of a combat, and in long fights it's more mana efficient than
shock of blades), the ability to summon weapons that can hit creatures that
are only hurt by magic (not a bad thing for a necromancer's pet to have!),
the fact that my PETS will be able to hit creatures that can only be hurt by
magic, plus the minor conveniences of summoning food and bandages.... the
ONLY advantages wizards have are better direct damage spells and
teleportation. Granted, those are very nice advantages to have, but I think
the magician's advantages balance them out.
Jeff K.
Nystramo on Cazic-Thule
GM
Clan Axepeak
Lute Lewis
(too many people ask me). I always live from a fatal battle and rarely take
damage as my pet will keep them off me long enough to get a running start.
Very nice indeed.
Daniel Thomas
- Solo Pet shares its master's experience
- If grouped but Pet not getting killing blow it still only shares its
master's experience
- If grouped and it gets the killing blow it gets a share of the group's
experience.
Ryan <Barbarian Shaman on Xegony>
----------
In article <7hteo1$a9e$1...@denws02.mw.mediaone.net>, "Phred"
<NOSPAM...@hotmail.com.NOSPAM> wrote:
>Interesting! Where did you hear the killing blow information? Can someone
>confirm? If you are grouped with alot of mages with pets that would mean
>your group would only have pet leech exp from the group at worst.
>
>
K. Laisathit
Jeff K. <jk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>I can't imagine why people don't like grouping with magicians.
You're right, nobody in his right mind will discard a magician
if he's looking for a burner. The real issue though is the
competitive advantage in a group. Wizards burn better than
magicians, plus they have travel spells. Druids burn about as
well as magicians, plus they have travel spells, assorted buff,
heals, AND SoW.
They aren't exactly a useless XP sink, but I doubt they are
the first choice when people are looking for a spell caster.
Haven't said that, the issue isn't a big deal. You never ever
manage to put together an ideal party. So, you get what
you can. If a magician of the *right* level is around, this is
probably the crux of the matter, you can do worse than having
him in the party. To balance out, a magician can solo much
better than most spell caster classes, with the exception of
Druids.
Later...
Phred
Phred
6 times and each and every time he is blue to me. At 4th level my pet was
even and yellow to me on several occassions. If my pet is blue to me it is
lvl 7 which is not bad at level 8 but is going to be less than usefull at
level 9 and almost worthless at level 11. Will my pet go up in level as I
do or will it always be level 7?
BTW I read that in the next patch they will make it so that a magicians pet
will no longer run away which is excellent. It really sucked to have my pet
flee from a critical battle and almost made me retire the character and run
a necro.
I know there are several excellent enchanter sites but I have yet to find a
good magician site. Does anybody know of a good one?
Daniel Thomas wrote in message <3742...@news.avenew.com>...
>The way I heard it explained many times in beta was:
>
>- Solo Pet shares its master's experience
>- If grouped but Pet not getting killing blow it still only shares its
>master's experience
>- If grouped and it gets the killing blow it gets a share of the group's
>experience.
>
>Ryan <Barbarian Shaman on Xegony>
>
>
>----------
>In article <7hteo1$a9e$1...@denws02.mw.mediaone.net>, "Phred"
><NOSPAM...@hotmail.com.NOSPAM> wrote:
>
>
Jeff K.
K. Laisathit wrote in message <7hv6d6$ua0$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>...
>You're right, nobody in his right mind will discard a magician
>if he's looking for a burner. The real issue though is the
>competitive advantage in a group. Wizards burn better than
>magicians, plus they have travel spells. Druids burn about as
>well as magicians, plus they have travel spells, assorted buff,
>heals, AND SoW.
But neither wizards or druids give you a burner AND a tank (albeit not a
full strength one) in one party slot. Of the two only druids get a decent
damage shield with thistle coat + thistle shield, but thistle coat is
extremely weak (though long lasting) and all my information indicates that
thistle shield does not last as long as a magician's shield of fire,
although the damage is about the same. Magicians also get an even better
damage shield at level 20, while druids do not. So, while magicians lack
any "standard" buff spells, they seem to have the best damage shield
available, which is nothing to sneeze at.
As a side note, I've found that when I cast shield of fire on my pet it
lasts MUCH longer than when I cast it on a player - enough to get it through
a combat, a full mana bar of meditation, and into the next combat if it
happens relatively soon. Yow! Cast on myself or another player it lasts
about a minute - still long enough to last most combats and get a very nice
mana:damage ratio.
Of course, the best thing about a magician is that when they run out of
mana, they're STILL contributing to the group via their pets. What're all
you fancy pants wizards gonna do, jump into the fight with that mob that is
REALLY pissed off at you by now? <EG>
Of the three, I think druids are the most "general purpose". They can burn
moderately well, can heal moderately well, have some nice buffs, and can
even tank to some degree. They have no glaring weaknesses, but no great
strengths either (except those teleport spells!) Magicians are next, being
able to burn a bit better than druids and they come with an extra tank, but
they only have one buff to speak of and can't heal. Wizards serve one
purpose only - to burn, but they burn better than anyone. Just don't expect
ANY form of buffing or tanking out of them, and, of course, they can't heal
either.
So, if you have enough tanks in your party already and you have a cleric,
you'll want to grab that wizard. If you lack a cleric, choose the druid, who
can even fill a tank slot (maybe half a tank slot <G>) if you really need
it. If you have a cleric but would like another tank, you should choose a
magician. If you want your party to go to hell for consorting with evil, get
a necromancer. <G>
Dan Harmon
To Jeff K:
Magicians can't heal, but they can summon bandages and Bind Wound. Granted,
it's not all that great, but it's something (at least it isn't for me, but
my skill is only at about 15), it's cheap, uses no mana (assuming you've
summoned plenty of bandages when you first logged on), and is fairly fast.
The downside, of course, is that it will only heal up to 50% of your max
HPs, but it can certainly speed up the total healing time.
To Phred:
I also read where the pets no longer run away, and that's great news. :) I
was disappointed to find that he wouldn't ATTACK anything he used to run
away from either. Well, to modify that statement a little....
I found a /con white wisp at lvl 9. I told my lvl 8 pet to attack it. He
ignored me (the bastard! <g> ).
BUT, (and I'm not sure here...it only happened once so far and I lose track
seeing all the battle commentary in the same color) I'm PRETTY sure my pet
didn't help me in another /con white fight until after the critter was
beating on me AND I told my pet to do its job (/pet attack).
Jeff K.
>I found a /con white wisp at lvl 9. I told my lvl 8 pet to attack it. He
>ignored me (the bastard! <g> ).
>
>BUT, (and I'm not sure here...it only happened once so far and I lose
track
>seeing all the battle commentary in the same color) I'm PRETTY sure my pet
>didn't help me in another /con white fight until after the critter was
>beating on me AND I told my pet to do its job (/pet attack).
My pet has attacked every single white critter I've told it to. It's only
yellows and reds that I've had trouble with... and reds and yellows would
likely just tear them to shreds anyway. Of course it would be nice to be
able to distract them with my pet if I need to run....
Alamin
against a wisp with the /pet attack command, what you need to do is either
cast a spell on the wisp or melee it until u get hit, then the pet will join
in on the battle
Alamin struggling magician on Cazic Thule
Dan Harmon <deha...@email.com> wrote in message
news:7i1dof$ss1$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
SNIP
Mark Asher
Alamin wrote in message <7i3i7c$qkq$1...@newsin-1.starnet.net>...
>Dan, have found out of the past that a pet will not initiate a attack
>against a wisp with the /pet attack command, what you need to do is either
>cast a spell on the wisp or melee it until u get hit, then the pet will
join
>in on the battle
Same thing happened to me. I was puzzled when my pet didn't attack, but I
gulped and hit the wisp anyway, hoping the pet would come to my aid. It did,
so the story had a happy ending. Got a greater lightstone too!
Mark Asher