The Frustration factor: Enchanters? (EQ)
Silverlock
as I write this. It is by writing this that I hope to get some of the
anger and frustration out of me right now. I shouldn't be angry at a
computer game but I am.
I spent a good 3-4 hours with Shay hunting in West Karanas tonight.
We couldn't do to much hunting at night because it is pitch black and
always rains making it even worse. Thus about 40% of our game time was
limited there. We had to stand around chit chatting because we
couldn't wander to far from the towers. In any event we made about 2
bubbles of exp each, I am a level 10 Enchanter and she is a level 11
Cleric.
After Shay left I quit for a while then decided to go check out Kerra
Isle. This is where the night went to shit for me.
I get off the boat. I summon my pet which says its blue and kind of
risky. I buff myself and it. We go exploring.
I see a Kerra spider, its white but that's supposed to be a 50 %
chance and I do have my pet. So I cast on it and i unload a lot of
mana (including 2 fizzles while I'm standing perfectly still doing not
getting hit at all) I get 4 resisted spells. The spider ignores the
pet and kills me. I'm not upset because I should have waited a bit
until the spider locked onto my pet.
I go back to the Island. I get my stuff, summon another pet (hey what
do you know its a blue risky one again, how about a better
identification system Verant). This time I decide to attack a Kerra
Snake, a Blue Kerra Snake. Now blue means I should have a better then
50% chance to win right? I cast, resisted. I cast fizzled, I cast,
resisted. The beastie ignores my pet and kills me. I cast 6 times on
about 10 tries (fizzles and interrupts when I'm not moving or being
hit, maybe it was them damn raindrops) of those 6 casts 4 are
resisted. By a blue. I die.
I go back yadda yadda yadda. Repeat this cycle 2 more times and in the
space of about an hour and a half (80% of which was waiting for the
damn boat) I have lost the exp it took me 4 hours with Shay to get. I
KNOW I should leave but I am so pissed and so disbelieving that I
can't kill a BLUE under any circumstances that I keep trying. And
Dying.
In the end I just shut the pc down and realized my hands were shaking.
Is there any way to get my money back on Everquest? because I didn't
have fun tonight in fact this rivaled the worst UO ever had and at the
same time EQ makes it harder to enjoy the good times with friends.
Die? Oh yeah you only have a half hour journey back to your friends
while they either gain exp without you or wait. Better have a real
good monitor and gamma correction or be one of those kewl Dark Elves
(Hmmm why Dark elves get the only enchant metal spells and the only
race with Ultravision... to appease all the wanna be Drizz't out
there?) .
Oh of course I tried to escape, I used my color flux spell, it works
for all of about 1 second. What's up with that? For an emergency spell
it ought to at least give you a chance to escape. Or are we supposed
to automatically use it when we get to half health and the
semi-reliable health bars for EQ monsters show to high. I'll say this
for UO when the health bar on a monster shows high you can believe its
high and when its low you know its almost dead.
And fix the damn resist rates for Enchanters spells already. Christ I
shouldn't have more then half my spells resisted by a blue.
If GZ is reading you need to seriously sit down and revisit
enchanters. I was useless last night when my friends were hitting Ice
Boned Skellies or Orc shamens. I got ONE spell through on those red
types in an entire night of playing and I"m talking a marathon night
of 8 hours playing. The only Unique ability we get is tied up in
Neriak, or useless since in game items found on mobs are easier and
less costly to buy/get then the stuff we can create through
Enchantments, many of our spells don't do crap, Sentinel anyone?
Alliance? In desperation we got turned into another pet using class
at the last minute, which although a nice stopgap measure isn't what
we want. We want to be able to cast on reds, just like wizards and
mages and necros. We want spells that work unlike the "stun" on color
flux which I have never seen work. We want to be Enchanters!
What's the description, people who "enchant people places and things".
I don't see it. Our enchant places spells are non functional. most of
our buffs are superceeded by other classes buffs, were designed to be
a group class yet our debuffs almost never work on the mobs groups
will want to try, Reds. We have no item enchanting spells, at least I
sure don't and no one is yet sure if the ones we do have are worth the
time.
I tried a Bard last night. in a fraction of the time I spent on any of
my 3 Enchanters I got him to level 4. And he's fun. I can fight a
white and actually have a chance to win.
And for thsoe in the UO forum who don't want to read this its clearly
marked so if you don't want to read it get a kill file, I'm posting
this to show there definately are problems with EQ and it's not all
sweetness and light and don't let anyone tell you differently.
Paul Bernat
I've not reached your level of frustration but I do wish they'd fix
enchanters, it's not like there aren't about 200 messages in this
group already about exactly the same problems ie spells being resisted
too much, spells being broken or useless (color flux: what is the
point in a 2 second stun when it takes you that long to recover from
casting it, and you can't get far enough away to flee? chaotic
feedback doesn't stun at all, sentinel is broken, etc), and no chance
of doing anything at all to a mob a few levels above you.
The only time I've seen then take a noticeable interest in enchanters
is when someone discovered a possible exploit in a spell that actually
worked as advertised.
Paul Bernat
e-mail work: pz.b...@ptl-uk.com
home: pbe...@ikroh.u-net.net
Fiddler
(Silverlock) wrote:
>I nearly quit Everquest just now. I am very very tempted to do so even
>as I write this.
Nah, don't quit EQ; just give up on Enchanters for now. They were the
last class added, and they've got some serious balance issues.
I too started with an Enchanter, and watched the other newbies shoot past
me in levels and ability. My spells didn't work half the time, and failed
to do much of anything when they succeeded. My record for "most spells
consecutively resisted by blues and greens" was 12. I was starting to
think I was lacking a material component for my spells or something.
I ditched the Enchanter and created a Cleric. Bam! In a few hours I
surpassed my weeks-old Enchanter, and had a lot more fun doing it. My
spells are actually useful now. I *never* die to blues, and I've taken on
my share of yellows with encouraging results. Groups invite me to join at
the drop of a hat.
Ignore all the mumbo-jumbo about how Enchanters are supposed to be
"subtle," or jacks-of-all-trades, or balanced with other classes in ways
not yet revealed. Enchanters just suck. Maybe they'll be good someday,
but right now they're a lot of pain for very little gain. They should be
flagged "very difficult" during character creation.
Dundee
wrote:
>I nearly quit Everquest just now. I am very very tempted to do so even
>as I write this. It is by writing this that I hope to get some of the
>anger and frustration out of me right now. I shouldn't be angry at a
>computer game but I am.
I don't know why all the good games make me want to hurl the monitor
through a window.
It definitely sounds like there are problems with Enchanters.
I've noticed that at our levels we just can't hunt much of anything at
all without grouping. It takes three or five of us to kill something
that cons yellow or red, and everything else cons green.
When Shay and I are out hunting we kill everything - green, blue,
white, yellow (if it isn't a spellcaster).... but then we go out with
a large group and they don't want to "waste time" killing green stuff.
My biggest frustration right now is - I can't loot (picking things up
makes me overloaded and the AC starts dropping, and then I get my butt
kicked). It isn't a huge problem, but it does mean that I can't play
solo *at all*. And Safe Fall. My god.... this freakin' skill just
will not increase. I've wasted about 10 or 15 practices on it - even
PAYING for the last 8 or 9 practices, and it NEVER increases through
use. I fell off cliffs every time we stopped to med' Saturday and as
you said, that was a marathon session. Not ONE increase to the skill.
What's really so frustrating is the lack of feedback from Verant.
With OSI you could send an email to a GM or programmer or post on CoB
or post to the newsgroup and there'd always be a pretty good chance
that SOMEONE would at least acknowledge they hear ya. Might not give
you the response you wanted, but at least you know they are
listening...
Email Verant and you get the formletter response from Bilbo the Mail
Guy (or whatever) and that's it. Even the message board on their own
site is only staffed by Sony/Verany employees that really have nothing
to do with development/programming/bug-fixing. And they ever seem to
post or read anywhere else.
I don't know what to suggest... I really like Sylverlokk the Gnome.
Maybe play the Bard when no one is around, and play Sylverlokk when we
get the Weekend Gang together. I dunno...
-
Dundee - http://dundee.uong.com/
Slithey Tove
Why are you guys expecting to be able to play solo as a magic user? That
seems be be part of the frustration here. (The other part, which is more
reasonable, is having spells resisted by low level creatures.) I'm a wizard,
and I certainly have been unable to play solo above level 4. So what?
Grouping to maximize strengths and dilute weaknesses is part of the game,
and let me tell you, it's a lot more fun than playing solo.
I've party'd with an enchanter, and although I couldn't tell what spells she
was casting, we had a good experience together, were able to survive and get
good XP in outer Crushbone at levels 7 and 8, and I think she contributed a
lot. (Ililiye, if you're reading this, look me up, let's do it again!) Are
you sure the 'resist' problem wasn't just that your skill in that spell
wasn't high enough? (Not trying to be difficult, just wondering.) The
ability to take down magic resistance seems to me to be potentially very
important, and as well as the ability to buff one's group (note the 'group'
again), and I've been thinking strongly of starting an enchanter as my next
character.
== Inuyasha, Fennin Ro
Silverlock wrote in message <3711ce7...@news.earthlink.net>...
Dundee
wrote:
>I'm replying both to you, and to the others in this thread.
>
>Why are you guys expecting to be able to play solo as a magic user?
Nonononono. That's not a good summary of his complaint. We played
with a big group Saturday and his spells would *never* hurt the things
we were fighting. We played for eight hours straight and only like
ONE time did something not resist his spells. That's a bit
ridiculous.
Also, solo as any other class, you *can* run out and kill something
that con's blue to you. But Enchanter's can't. Not because they are
spellcasters, but because they are enchanters. That sort of bites,
too.
>That seems be be part of the frustration here. (The other part, which is more
>reasonable, is having spells resisted by low level creatures.)
Well, the dying over and over and over to something that con'd blue...
yeah. :-P
Gresh
First observation:
Certain classes are specifically designed to have strengths and
weaknesses. The enchanter, in my opinion, is specfically designed to
excel in a group, and only in a group. The enchanter, in fact, is the
second most powerful, effective, and thus valuable class in a group
setting, next to bards. The enchanter, in theory (there may indeed be
effectiveness and balance issues), is designed to turn a high-level
opponent into a lower-level one, for the group.
The enchanter has no healing, relatively weak direct damage spells,
little armor, generally weak melee skills, etc. From the perspective
of the class design, Syl, your enchanter isn't *supposed* to be
soloing at all, not even blues.
Second observation:
Almost *all* classes become *much* harder to solo by the time they hit
level 7 or 8.
An example from yesterday: I am a barbarian shaman, level 12. I have
decent healing (same as a cleric at my level), good weapons and armor,
lots of hit points (for a non-warrior), I am buffed like you wouldn't
believe (+10 str, +20 hps, +20 AC, +15 agility, +10 dex), I have a
de-buff (drowsy), a sicken spell that does about 25 damage total, a
poison spell that does about 40 damage total, and a direct damage
spell (frost rift) that does 15 damage for 10 mana. Yesterday I took
on a level 10 polar bear. By the time I killed it, I had just under
two bubbles of health, and zero mana. And the shaman is a class that
is supposed to be more solo-viable than almost all others? Hmmmm.
Back at level 5 and 6, I could kill opponent after opponent after
opponent, if they were one level below me. They barely scratched me.
At level 12, it's a completely different story.
Gresh
Qualm, Barbarian Shaman, E'ci
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|I've noticed that at our levels we just can't hunt much of anything at
|all without grouping. It takes three or five of us to kill something
|that cons yellow or red, and everything else cons green.
Full-grown lion types are still blue to white to me. There are tougher
lions (patriarchs and matriarchs) in East Karanas, if you feel like playing
"dodge the Griffon".
|My biggest frustration right now is - I can't loot (picking things up
|makes me overloaded and the AC starts dropping, and then I get my butt
|kicked). It isn't a huge problem, but it does mean that I can't play
|solo *at all*.
It means you can't play solo and gather loot, but then Monks are pretty
low-maintainance. And you kill things a hell of a lot faster than I do....
|And Safe Fall. My god.... this freakin' skill just
|will not increase. I've wasted about 10 or 15 practices on it - even
|PAYING for the last 8 or 9 practices, and it NEVER increases through
|use. I fell off cliffs every time we stopped to med' Saturday and as
|you said, that was a marathon session. Not ONE increase to the skill.
I haven't started on that road with my Rogue, but I can tell I'm not going
to like it.
|What's really so frustrating is the lack of feedback from Verant.
Yeah, that sucks.
Dennis F. Heffernan EQ: Venture (E'ci) dfra...@email.com
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"There's no easy way to be free."
-- Pete Townshend, "Slip Kid"
Mark S
and felt that they always made a contribution to the groups I was in.
Talking with several of them about strategy, the most important opening
spell seems to be "Tashan" (sp), the one that lowers the targets magic
resistance. The reason being that the majority of the offensive combat
spells of Enchants can be resisted, as opposed to direct damage spells.
Plus yellow and red mobs have an even greater chance to resist you than
whites and blues and I could see how a group taking on tougher mobs
wouldn't see an Enchanter help much in combat.
But then again, last night in misty thicket, I took my lvl 8 cleric out
in a group with a level 8 rougue, level 7 druid, and a level 7 enchanter
and we were killing yellows and reds steadily. Our enchanter was
casting like a madman and his spells were definiately effective. My
personal favorite was the choking spell. Good ole damage over time.
Anywhere I would happily take an enchanter on in a group. They have
great supplemental abilities. Buffs/debuffs; that what their focus is
so they are almost exclusively a group asset.
As to soloing, they have the same problem as wizards with less
offensive firepower. A wizard can solo blues with root and direct
damage spells, but if the target resists and starts pounding on him,
interruptions will usually mean his death. Enchanters have that problem
to an even larger degree b/c the animation spells are a poor imitation
of a pet and their damage capabilities are so much less. They are
probably the worst class out their for soloing past beginner levels.
Mark S.
Dundee wrote:
> Nonononono. That's not a good summary of his complaint. We played
> with a big group Saturday and his spells would *never* hurt the things
>
> we were fighting. We played for eight hours straight and only like
> ONE time did something not resist his spells. That's a bit
> ridiculous.
>
> Also, solo as any other class, you *can* run out and kill something
> that con's blue to you. But Enchanter's can't. Not because they are
> spellcasters, but because they are enchanters. That sort of bites,
> too.
>
Dundee
>setting, next to bards. The enchanter, in theory (there may indeed be
>effectiveness and balance issues), is designed to turn a high-level
>opponent into a lower-level one, for the group.
Yep... that's the theory.
But when the large group of us were killing mounties and shamen
(shamans?) and mammoth calves, Sylverlokk was sort of left twiddling
his thumbs.
He *theoritically* could have turned those high level opponents into
lower-level ones. In practice, they just resisted all his spells.
And sometimes they beat his brains out for making the effort.
Our one engagement of a mounty when it was just Sylverlokk, myself and
Shay went like this:
I hit the mountaineer.
The mountaineer beat Sylverlokk near to death.
Shay healed Sylverlokk over and over just as fast as she could.
Maybe it was the level difference though. I think he was a couple
levels below us at the time. Maybe it'll get better when he catches
up.
'Course in order to catch up, he'd gotta quit dying out solo in the
wee hours of the morning...
Stephen Tsai
Silverlock <cro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>(Hmmm why Dark elves get the only enchant metal spells and the only
>race with Ultravision... to appease all the wanna be Drizz't out
>there?) .
There are ways to get those Enchant Metal spells.
Either wait until 12th lvl (Illusion Dark Elf)
or get a Dark Elf PC to buy them for you.
I'm in negotiations with one via e-mail at
this time in fact.
>Oh of course I tried to escape, I used my color flux spell, it works
>for all of about 1 second. What's up with that? For an emergency spell
>it ought to at least give you a chance to escape. Or are we supposed
>to automatically use it when we get to half health and the
>semi-reliable health bars for EQ monsters show to high. I'll say this
>for UO when the health bar on a monster shows high you can believe its
>high and when its low you know its almost dead.
>
>And fix the damn resist rates for Enchanters spells already. Christ I
>shouldn't have more then half my spells resisted by a blue.
Geez, where have you been? I and others have been
ranting and raving about the excessive resistance
against Enchanter spells for the last 2 weeks or
so. And all we get told is "deal with it" in so
many words.
Even worse, the supposed spell that's supposed
to deal with magic resistance (Tashan) doesn't.
I have never gotten that spell to work against reds;
the always resist it.
Even more pitiful, I don't think Verant reads this
newsgroup, so all this complaining is for naught.
But if someone wants to prep a petition or something
to send to them directly, I'll certainly sign it.
Stephen Tsai aka Caeeorny of Karana
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Dundee
Heffernan) wrote:
> Full-grown lion types are still blue to white to me. There are tougher
>lions (patriarchs and matriarchs) in East Karanas, if you feel like playing
>"dodge the Griffon".
Er... "wee".
Actually I think lions and wisps would be good for us. That's what
Shay and Sylverlokk killed Sunday night before he went off and got
killed a bunch.
I don't think I'll ever get sick of killing wisps. So much loot... I
just wish there were more of them.
>|And Safe Fall. My god.... this freakin' skill just will not increase.
> I haven't started on that road with my Rogue, but I can tell I'm not going
>to like it.
Maybe by the time you get around to it, they will have fixed it (in
which case, I really *have* wasted practices trying to jump start it).
Stephen Tsai
Dundee <Dun...@SPAMSPAMSPAM.COM> wrote:
>My biggest frustration right now is - I can't loot (picking things up
>makes me overloaded and the AC starts dropping, and then I get my butt
>kicked). It isn't a huge problem, but it does mean that I can't play
>will not increase. I've wasted about 10 or 15 practices on it - even
>PAYING for the last 8 or 9 practices, and it NEVER increases through
>use. I fell off cliffs every time we stopped to med' Saturday and as
>you said, that was a marathon session. Not ONE increase to the skill.
I've been able to loot decently; Stengthen helps a great deal,
plus as a human, I defaulted to 75 to start with.
Do other people even *get* Safe Fall? I thought only
Monks and Rogues got that?
>Email Verant and you get the formletter response from Bilbo the Mail
>Guy (or whatever) and that's it. Even the message board on their own
>site is only staffed by Sony/Verany employees that really have nothing
>to do with development/programming/bug-fixing. And they ever seem to
>post or read anywhere else.
I have seen an occasional response from Verant on the
EQVault General message board. But that board is so loaded,
I doubt they'll take time to address something so specific
as a single class mis-balance.
>I don't know what to suggest... I really like Sylverlokk the Gnome.
>Maybe play the Bard when no one is around, and play Sylverlokk when we
>get the Weekend Gang together. I dunno...
This is what I do nowadays. When my regular "crew" is online,
I play Caeeorny. When I can't find them, I now play a
Shadowknight (who's already Lvl 3 in about 1/2 the time it
took Caeeorny).
Stephen Tsai
Mark S <ma...@benchmark-systems.com> wrote:
>I have not played an enchanter (yet) but I have grouped with several
>and felt that they always made a contribution to the groups I was in.
>Talking with several of them about strategy, the most important opening
>spell seems to be "Tashan" (sp), the one that lowers the targets magic
>resistance. The reason being that the majority of the offensive combat
>spells of Enchants can be resisted, as opposed to direct damage spells.
>Plus yellow and red mobs have an even greater chance to resist you than
>whites and blues and I could see how a group taking on tougher mobs
>wouldn't see an Enchanter help much in combat.
Tashan's useless; against reds, it gets resisted practically
everytime. I'm on a running streak of 12 in a row of Tashan
resists on reds (and still counting).
>But then again, last night in misty thicket, I took my lvl 8 cleric out
>in a group with a level 8 rougue, level 7 druid, and a level 7 enchanter
>and we were killing yellows and reds steadily. Our enchanter was
>casting like a madman and his spells were definiately effective. My
>personal favorite was the choking spell. Good ole damage over time.
>Anywhere I would happily take an enchanter on in a group. They have
>great supplemental abilities. Buffs/debuffs; that what their focus is
>so they are almost exclusively a group asset.
I don't know what lucky star he was born under, but
my experience is contrary to this. Against yellows,
I get maybe 30-40% chance of affecting it; against red,
that's down to about 5-10%.
I buff everyone and their pets in my party all the time,
but I do ask just how effective even this is. Look at the
stats when they modify. Strengthen increaase Str by about
5-10 pts. Blur increases AC by about 5 pts. Now look at
the scale; a decent warrior already has 100-150 str. Just
how much good does 5 pts do? AC's even worse; it's on a scale
of 1000. 5 pts is almost certainly doing only a miniscule
difference.
Paul Bernat
If enchanter spells are resisted they have no effect. A mob a few
levels above your own will almost always resist your spells whatever
class you are. For enchanters this means that their spells, including
Tashan, will have no effect at all. For other pure spell-casters their
damage spells at least have a reduced impact if resisted.
No-one will solo mobs that /con red, but groups frequently do. So for
the above reason, enchanter "offensive" spells are of no use in groups
that hunt reds. This reduces enchanters to buffing their party members
at which they are not as good as some other classes. I'm not
suggesting raising our buffing power, BTW.
Some groups will hunt yellow and lower creatures. In these situations
an enchanter can be effective, although the all-or-nothing aspect of
our spells can often make us spectators to the main event. There is a
lot of anecdotal evidence, however, that even against creatures that
/con blue our spells get resisted more than other spell casters.
For groups hunting red mobs, enchanters cannot offer as much as other
classes. For the solo player, as you state, they are not the best
choice. As far as class abilites go, no-one has found a way of
enchanting anything other than jewellry. So where does that leave the
enchanter, especially in the later levels of the game?
What I'd like is:
a) a statement that our spells don't get resisted any more often than
any other magic user.
b) some of our spells to do something if resisted, so at least we can
be seen to be contributing against tough mobs.
c) a resolution to the question of whether we will be able to enchant
items such as weapons or not.
I would also suggest a list of known broken spells and abilities, not
just for enchanters but for other classes. Unless, of course, this
list already exists and someone wants to give me the address...
Paul Bernat
Stephen Tsai
Dundee <Dun...@SPAMSPAMSPAM.COM> wrote:
>Yep... that's the theory.
>
>But when the large group of us were killing mounties and shamen
>(shamans?) and mammoth calves, Sylverlokk was sort of left twiddling
>his thumbs.
Agree with you wholeheartedly. Let me add a few
supporting points as well...
>He *theoritically* could have turned those high level opponents into
>lower-level ones. In practice, they just resisted all his spells.
>And sometimes they beat his brains out for making the effort.
Same for me; burly gnolls (which are *supposed* to be blue
to me) kick the snot out of me for even trying to hurt them.
My group's warriors do their best beating the crap
out of him to get his attention, but no...
>Maybe it was the level difference though. I think he was a couple
>levels below us at the time. Maybe it'll get better when he catches
>up.
But that's not the point. According to Verant's own
description, an Enchanter is supposed to be able to help
his group take on those reds and yellows. Their own
description claims that a "properly played Enchanter"
can turn a red into a "blue pussycat" or words to that
effect. However, anyone who plays Enchanters knows
this is simply not true.
Paul Bernat
>On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:42:01 GMT, Gresh wrote:
[snip]
>
>He *theoritically* could have turned those high level opponents into
>lower-level ones. In practice, they just resisted all his spells.
>And sometimes they beat his brains out for making the effort.
>
>Our one engagement of a mounty when it was just Sylverlokk, myself and
>Shay went like this:
>
>I hit the mountaineer.
>The mountaineer beat Sylverlokk near to death.
>Shay healed Sylverlokk over and over just as fast as she could.
Hehe, mobs hate enchanters. I was standing around the entrance to
Lavastorm with about 7 players around me and every goblin that
appeared went straight for my throat without me even casting a spell,
ignoring the wizards, necros, pets, warriors, etc.
>Maybe it was the level difference though. I think he was a couple
>levels below us at the time. Maybe it'll get better when he catches
>up.
Nope, enchanters are public enemy number one.
Dundee
wrote:
>>My biggest frustration right now is - I can't loot (picking things up
>>makes me overloaded and the AC starts dropping, and then I get my butt
>I've been able to loot decently; Stengthen helps a great deal,
>plus as a human, I defaulted to 75 to start with.
With cloth armor, food and water, I am at about 12 weight. Over 14
and the AC starts dropping. 'Course it isn't *really* that big a deal
- I *am* low maintenance and make more money than I need just from the
autosplit coinage.
>Do other people even *get* Safe Fall? I thought only
>Monks and Rogues got that?
Beats me, but I am a monk... I have it, it just sucks.
Driakos
Dundee wrote in message ...
if you feel like playing
>>"dodge the Griffon".
>
>Er... "wee".
I played dodge the Giffon on Saturday. I would have to say it's the most
exciting game in EQ. I was trying to make it to Highpass. I /tell'd
Venture for some directions, as the North Karanas riverbank was crowded with
raiders. After what he told me, I might, might mind you just make it to
Highpass, and then Freeport, but I sure as hell wouldn't make it back. So I
played 2 more rounds of dodge the Griffon to get back home. The riverbank
almost all the way up to Whitebridge was clogged with "a raider"'s.
>I don't think I'll ever get sick of killing wisps. So much loot... I
>just wish there were more of them.
Are you being sarchastic? It takes me 5-6 minutes to beat one down with my
roundkick, and then I get nothing. Wisp is INVULNERABLE to your punch...
Wisp is INVULNERABLE to your punch... You kick a wisp for 8 points of
damage. Repeat. Repeat. Nothing. I killed about 10 of them hoping for a
lightglobe but no haps. I thought the fire/giant beetle trick might work,
but it doesn't. (Where if you see a beetle that isn't lighting anything up,
it doesn't have an eyeball to loot, so I tried to beat on the brightest
wisps)
>>|And Safe Fall. My god.... this freakin' skill just will not increase.
I know you have dumped alot of points into it. I have only put 5. It wont
go up, nor does it stop me from taking 29 points of damage sometimes from
jumping into the water. I just will not fall, and hope someday they fix it.
I'll be gracious though, and give them permission to fix enchanters first.
Driakos.
Daiugen the not so Oft Dead.
(Although at 5 in the morning, Sunday, I for a brief moment WAS level 10,
then of course I died, and have been so disgusted I haven't played since,
that's what I get for trying to be a hero and diverting a train off some
stranger.... not even a thanks. Although.... I have ((inadvertantly))
killed enough people that I owe it to Norrath to soak up a whole lotta
trains.) <- Longest aside yet.
Dundee
wrote:
>I played dodge the Giffon on Saturday. I would have to say it's the most
>exciting game in EQ. I was trying to make it to Highpass. I /tell'd
>Venture for some directions, as the North Karanas riverbank was crowded with
>raiders. After what he told me, I might, might mind you just make it to
>Highpass, and then Freeport, but I sure as hell wouldn't make it back.
Oh the return trip is *easy*. It's really fast, too.
>So I played 2 more rounds of dodge the Griffon to get back home.
The only time I've ever seen raiders on the beach is in a little camp
between the white bridge and the brown one. We skirt around those,
and that's it for the trip to the brown bridge. Then there's a Giant
on the beach we skirt around, and we hug the mountain all the way to
highpass.
*Then* we die.
>>I don't think I'll ever get sick of killing wisps. So much loot... I
>>just wish there were more of them.
>
>Are you being sarchastic? It takes me 5-6 minutes to beat one down with my
>roundkick, and then I get nothing. Wisp is INVULNERABLE to your punch...
>Wisp is INVULNERABLE to your punch...
I have netted gloves and Shay has a summoned hammer. We beat the
things to death. We've only fought 3 or 4, they all had Lightstones.
The very first one we killed had a Greater Lightstone.
By the way - if you thought kicking a bear was funny, you have GOT to
come fighting mammoth calves with us.
I PUNCHED AN ELEPHANT TO DEATH! heheheh
>>>|And Safe Fall. My god.... this freakin' skill just will not increase.
>
>I know you have dumped alot of points into it. I have only put 5. It wont
>go up, nor does it stop me from taking 29 points of damage sometimes from
>jumping into the water. I just will not fall, and hope someday they fix it.
>I'll be gracious though, and give them permission to fix enchanters first.
Somehow, I'm thinking they can fix Safe Fall with just a wee little
*tweak*.
>stranger.... not even a thanks. Although.... I have ((inadvertantly))
>killed enough people that I owe it to Norrath to soak up a whole lotta
>trains.) <- Longest aside yet.
You and the barbarian we were with Saturday ("Kaymarr", I think) need
to hang out.
*Twice* he ran out for a mammoth calf and came back with *two*.
Two is too much.
Daniel Thomas
have an Out of Order sign hung on them. Even if your buff/debuff spells
worked as expected it would be a selfless group-serving class, but with the
current state of those spells it's not even that.
I use mine to play with jewelry making now and then and that's about it.
BTW... that sucks too.
----------
In article <3711ce7...@news.earthlink.net>, cro...@earthlink.net
(Silverlock) wrote:
Shrike
>
[snip-o-matic]
> I tried a Bard last night. in a fraction of the time I spent on any of
> my 3 Enchanters I got him to level 4. And he's fun. I can fight a
> white and actually have a chance to win.
>
> And for thsoe in the UO forum who don't want to read this its clearly
> marked so if you don't want to read it get a kill file, I'm posting
> this to show there definately are problems with EQ and it's not all
> sweetness and light and don't let anyone tell you differently.
crossposts to r.g.u-o excised.
Man... If you can't handle your Enchanter stick to your bard and quit
yer whinning. I think I just read above you had FUN with him.
--
Shrike -IRIX worshipper, Linux dabbler, Windows victim-
`I need Stalin like I need a hole in the head' -Leon Trotsky
Dundee
wrote:
>Man... If you can't handle your Enchanter stick to your bard and quit
>yer whinning.
Oh, niiiiiiice answer...
Have the "Stock Reply to People Who Whine About Whining":
If you can't handle the whining, you shouldn't read the newsgroup. Or
at least you shouldn't have read that post. He *started* it
explaining that he was venting. That's your cue to hit "read next".
Silverlock
wrote:
>I'm replying both to you, and to the others in this thread.
>
>Why are you guys expecting to be able to play solo as a magic user? That
>seems be be part of the frustration here. (The other part, which is more
>reasonable, is having spells resisted by low level creatures.) I'm a wizard,
>and I certainly have been unable to play solo above level 4. So what?
>Grouping to maximize strengths and dilute weaknesses is part of the game,
>and let me tell you, it's a lot more fun than playing solo.
>
>I've party'd with an enchanter, and although I couldn't tell what spells she
>was casting, we had a good experience together, were able to survive and get
>good XP in outer Crushbone at levels 7 and 8, and I think she contributed a
>lot. (Ililiye, if you're reading this, look me up, let's do it again!) Are
>you sure the 'resist' problem wasn't just that your skill in that spell
>wasn't high enough? (Not trying to be difficult, just wondering.) The
>ability to take down magic resistance seems to me to be potentially very
>important, and as well as the ability to buff one's group (note the 'group'
>again), and I've been thinking strongly of starting an enchanter as my next
>character.
>
>== Inuyasha, Fennin Ro
>
My main point was this. Before I buffed him, I had a Blue/Risky pet
each of the 4 times that I faced a Blue/Risky opponent. I buffed them,
and I buffed me. Consider only considers me versus them and is a
strict level consideration. I should be able to solo a blue more then
50% of the time. Now add the fact that my pet which is a level 8 or
perhaps even 9 warrior equivalent at taunt and damage, albeit with low
hitpoints and theoretically played right, I should lose only 1 in 3 or
maybe even 1 in 4 depending on luck. Perhaps I just got an extremely
bad series of random numbers, it does happen. I just wish the con
system was a bit clearer and that my spells versus opponents who are
supposed to be lower level then me weren't resisted so much.
I kept thinking on the way out to Kerra, I must be doing something
wrong, maybe I should do this instead. I tried standing back and
letting my pet taunt them and casting. I tried the old mesmerize then
debuff and then run while your DOT spells hit it. I tried get up close
and personal with my staff WHILE my pet is beating on it AND while I'm
casting.
The single saving grace from last night, the single reason I didn't
delete the character was my encounter with Damon a character of
unknown level who was engaging a wisp. I checked his hitpoints and he
was full so I enfeebled the fire ele. Then since I had the buffs
memorized to I retargeted him to strengthen and haze him. His bar was
about half as wide as his name and this in the space of maybe 15
seconds since I first checked. I retargetted the Fire Ele and
brainbusted it and its bar didn't seem to move at all and he turned to
run already to late. I cast mesmerize and it actually took. The ele
stood there not moving and the guy ran down the beach. I was at half
mana with no pet and just watched and when the mesmerize wore off the
ele wandered away having forgotten all about both of us.
That was cool and that is one of the reasons I chose to be an
enchanter, because I like to use alternative means of helping other
then just nuking. When it works its great but you have to fight not
only the targetting system (next npc key anyone? and how about
separating pets from other NPC's, there's nothing like blowing mana
attacking your own pet accidently in a close fight) but a resist
system that says we don't get partial resists its either all or
nothing and on deep reds its mostly nothing.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|Actually I think lions and wisps would be good for us. That's what
|Shay and Sylverlokk killed Sunday night before he went off and got
|killed a bunch.
|
|I don't think I'll ever get sick of killing wisps. So much loot... I
|just wish there were more of them.
They're still yellow to me, and I'm usually solo.
Silverlock
wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:42:01 GMT, Gresh wrote:
>
>>setting, next to bards. The enchanter, in theory (there may indeed be
>>effectiveness and balance issues), is designed to turn a high-level
>>opponent into a lower-level one, for the group.
>
>Yep... that's the theory.
>
>But when the large group of us were killing mounties and shamen
>(shamans?) and mammoth calves, Sylverlokk was sort of left twiddling
>his thumbs.
>
>He *theoritically* could have turned those high level opponents into
>lower-level ones. In practice, they just resisted all his spells.
>And sometimes they beat his brains out for making the effort.
>
>Our one engagement of a mounty when it was just Sylverlokk, myself and
>Shay went like this:
>
>I hit the mountaineer.
>The mountaineer beat Sylverlokk near to death.
>Shay healed Sylverlokk over and over just as fast as she could.
>
>Maybe it was the level difference though. I think he was a couple
>levels below us at the time. Maybe it'll get better when he catches
>up.
>
>'Course in order to catch up, he'd gotta quit dying out solo in the
>wee hours of the morning...
>
> -
>Dundee - http://dundee.uong.com/
That's pretty much how it went with Shay and me too yesterday. She and
my pet would be beating on something and it would be coming after me
mostly. I was one level lower then you guys for most of saturday and
for reds I couldn't do much to help. For Ice bone skelles Since I
didn't have a magic weapon to attack it and all my spells were
resisted I couldn't even get them to hit me which would have brought
my pets magic weapon to bear.
My problem is I really like being a Gnome and yet the only class they
have I like is the Enchanter. If Gnomes had Bards or Druids I'd be
one.
Anyway I played my Bard early this morning and Solo'd at level 4 the
ice goblin scout camp near Halas three times. The fourth time I hit
the wrong key and didn't notice till to late. On my way back to my
corpse I "found" the Ice giants. Boy they sure do hit hard. Even
though I died twice as a bard after all those deaths as an Enchanter,
the dying as a bard didn't hurt so much because I actually believed
that when I looked at that white I had at least an even chance. In
fact my record with my bard for soloing whites is now something like
30 wins and 2 losses. I'm gonna get Sylver to level 12 but play my
bard off times like you suggest. I just don't want to get into that
situation where I have to degroup and basically get twinked to level
like on Saturday.
Gresh
>to hang out.
>
>*Twice* he ran out for a mammoth calf and came back with *two*.
>
>Two is too much.
Ah, yes, the most exciting thing this past weekend ... thanks for
reminding me :-)).
Some lessons I learned from that one: Don't run off and try to help a
stranger ("Dominatrix", being chased by a trooper) while someone is
out fetching, don't blow all your mana healing her and trying to pull
the trooper off her (it either *really* hated her, or it was a green
one and wasn't about to take me on). When you get back, and find the
remainder off your party (Sylverlokk ran with me trying to save
Dominatrix) engaged with *two* mammoth calfs, plus a blue spider, yell
RUN more than three or four times. Etc.
I also managed to watch a very ugly, but frankly amusingly cinematic,
trampling: while running back to our safe pocket to try to take out
the remaining calf, I watched Tiburon sit down against the wall to try
to gain the mana to gate the hell out of there. I watched the
remaining mammoth calf run past him ... and slowly stop, and pivot, as
if it could *smell* easy wizard meat ... and turn on him and, i swear,
CHARGE into him, skewering him, and trampling his unconscious body
into the ground. I watched all this while sprinting at wolf spirit
speeds across the snow in a desperate attempt to reach him in time ...
I imagine Qualm was screaming "GET ON YOUR FEEEEET !!!
MAMMMMMOTTHHHH".
Kinda neat. Personally, I learned to never, ever sit down to meditate
with hostiles anywhere near you that time in Splitpaw ...
Gresh
>with a big group Saturday and his spells would *never* hurt the things
>we were fighting. We played for eight hours straight and only like
>ONE time did something not resist his spells. That's a bit
>ridiculous.
Well, as you mentioned elsewhere, there was a big level difference
between him and what we were killing. Most of it was red or yellow to
me, meaning level 12+. That's 3 levels plus (mostly plus) higher than
him, which Syl himself called "deep red". I know that anything 3
levels or more above me is going to resist almost everything I cast on
it. Certainly a red orc shaman resists nearly 100 percent of my
drowsy, sicken, and tainted breath spells.
I read an analysis by a beta tester that said that shamans get a spell
at level 19 (that lowers the targets resistances, most notably to
poison) that basically opens the door for Tashan (the enchanter spell
that lowers the targets resistance to magic, and is apparently
poison-based), which then opens the door for ... well, you get the
idea.
Kinda convoluted, and aguably a design flaw.
Phred
the going is very tough. Our spells get resisted quite a bit and when they
don't they still don't do that much. Many of our spells are broken etc.
etc. I am very disappointed that after many hours of play invested in this
character I may have to retire him. I don't want to throw good hours after
bad. The class does have some cute spells that really give the class
'character' which is why I have spent this much time with my enchanter.
Rather than keep on complaining I think I will retire my enchanter Fdar and
try a couple other characters. I have a 5th level warrior(resist this sword
Mr. Mob) mwhahaha your resist was unsuccessfull. Ok try to resist my foot
in your face hehehe again you are unsuccessfull in your resist. I also have
a 3rd level bard I started the other night. I have leveled MUCH faster with
these two guys so far and I think the bard would be a very welcome addition
to any party unlike my enchanter who had alot of trouble contributing some
times.
Most people who have not played enchanters don't realize how little they can
and are doing in group battles. Open with Tashan but oh no it is resisted.
I can blow through half a mana bar casting Tashan after Tashan to try to
lower magic defense so I can get in my other spells. Hmmmm. They added
mediocre pets to the class just to keep us from totally sucking.
If they ever fix this class I will gladly come back to it.
Fdar Enchanter 9th level
Zdar Bard
Konner Warrior
K. Laisathit
Mark S <ma...@benchmark-systems.com> wrote:
>resistance. The reason being that the majority of the offensive combat
>spells of Enchants can be resisted, as opposed to direct damage spells.
Direct damage can be resisted too, but it's never all or nothing as
in the case of Enchanter. You'll do 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 down all the way
to 1 damage when resisted.
>Plus yellow and red mobs have an even greater chance to resist you than
>whites and blues and I could see how a group taking on tougher mobs
>wouldn't see an Enchanter help much in combat.
White mobs resist my druid's ignite often enough though.
Later...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu
Richard Cortese
> I spent a good 3-4 hours with Shay hunting in West Karanas tonight.
> We couldn't do to much hunting at night because it is pitch black and
> always rains making it even worse. Thus about 40% of our game time was
> limited there. We had to stand around chit chatting because we
> couldn't wander to far from the towers. In any event we made about 2
> bubbles of exp each, I am a level 10 Enchanter and she is a level 11
> Cleric.
Don't know much about the game yet, but buy a frigging lantern. I mean
REALLY buy a frigging lantern. Damn gamma correction knob doesn't work
for me except when I preset it from the control panel, no adjustment in
game: But I bought a frigging lantern!
I was bad, I was terrible! I mean I attacked a tent no less! Hey, it
looked like a bat in the dark!
2nd night, I got lost swimming around in caves under the city. That
candle is worthless (Soon as I bought the lantern, DESTROY w/candle).
After you get wet, just re equip the light source to get it lit again.
I am thinking about buying two lanterns. Heck you can even have a weapon
equipped with one, maybe I can use two?
Spending all my time under Freeport finding secret doors, swimming with
a fishing pole in one had and lantern in the other. Kind of silly
really. Got to kill a few piranhas.
A good game would result:
Blizzard programming and doing the user interface
OSI doing the game world, atmosphere (bread if you will) and art
Verant doing the quests, eye candy, scale, and NPCs
Simond
Gresh wrote in message <37125763...@news.pipeline.com>...
>
>I also managed to watch a very ugly, but frankly amusingly cinematic,
>trampling: while running back to our safe pocket to try to take out
>the remaining calf, I watched Tiburon sit down against the wall to try
>to gain the mana to gate the hell out of there. I watched the
>remaining mammoth calf run past him ... and slowly stop, and pivot, as
>if it could *smell* easy wizard meat ... and turn on him and, i swear,
>CHARGE into him, skewering him, and trampling his unconscious body
>into the ground. I watched all this while sprinting at wolf spirit
>speeds across the snow in a desperate attempt to reach him in time ...
>I imagine Qualm was screaming "GET ON YOUR FEEEEET !!!
>MAMMMMMOTTHHHH".
<Colapses into helpless laughter>
This sounds like the sort of thing that would happen to one of my
friend's AD&D PC
Poor old Lordius...
>
>Kinda neat. Personally, I learned to never, ever sit down to meditate
>with hostiles anywhere near you that time in Splitpaw ...
Do tell...
>
>Gresh
>Qualm, Barbarian Shaman, E'ci
>
Simond AKA
Dea Crystalmist, Guildless Ranger, Europa
Deah, Wood Elf Ranger, E'ci
Atarin, Half-elf Warrior, E'ci
Shrike
I don't have a problem with people complaining about the shortcomings
of the Enchanters or any other class, but when they start a post
saying "I'm going to quit EQ" and they end it explaining how much fun
they had playing another class, methinks we have a whine rather than a
complaint.
And, by the same token, people who whine have to put up with people
who whine about them whining. It's also part of the dynamic of the
newsgroup. :)
Ulk
also
[Silverlock wrote]
Charles B. Naumann
: Certain classes are specifically designed to have strengths and
: weaknesses. The enchanter, in my opinion, is specfically designed to
: excel in a group, and only in a group.
The poster said that almost every one of his spells was resisted.
How is this effective in a group?
: The enchanter has no healing, relatively weak direct damage spells,
: little armor, generally weak melee skills, etc. From the perspective
: of the class design, Syl, your enchanter isn't *supposed* to be
: soloing at all, not even blues.
Sounds like he shouldn't be in combat period. Actually, this would
be neat, except currently combat is the only (reasonable) way to level.
: Second observation:
: Almost *all* classes become *much* harder to solo by the time they hit
: level 7 or 8.
Level 7 for my barbarian warrior was the pits. I grouped often, but the
biggest problem was the competition for critters that were in our
ballpark. Interestingly, now at level 10, soloing is again feasible.
The only problem I have soloing a barbarian warrior is the very
long time it takes to regenerate my hit points. A cleric with meditaion
can fully heal me in less than a minutes, verses well over 10 minutes
alone. From what I have read, the time factor only gets worse. I
need to learn meditation to heal wounds.
: An example from yesterday: I am a barbarian shaman, level 12. I have
: decent healing (same as a cleric at my level), good weapons and armor,
: lots of hit points (for a non-warrior), I am buffed like you wouldn't
: believe (+10 str, +20 hps, +20 AC, +15 agility, +10 dex), I have a
: de-buff (drowsy), a sicken spell that does about 25 damage total, a
: poison spell that does about 40 damage total, and a direct damage
: spell (frost rift) that does 15 damage for 10 mana. Yesterday I took
: on a level 10 polar bear. By the time I killed it, I had just under
: two bubbles of health, and zero mana. And the shaman is a class that
: is supposed to be more solo-viable than almost all others? Hmmmm.
This is soloing. You found and killed a critter and gained experience
from it. I am sure you can tweak your remaining health and mana a
bit by changing strategy.
: Back at level 5 and 6, I could kill opponent after opponent after
: opponent, if they were one level below me. They barely scratched me.
: At level 12, it's a completely different story.
Simple linear math would tell you that at level 5, one step below
you is a 20% reduction. At level 12, one step below you is an 8%
reduction.
I am not arguing with you about the merits of solo vs. non solo,
and what should be allowed, but it sounds like the enchanter
class is just plain broken. Unless the plan is that enchanters
get much more powerful later on, and the dues that they pay now
are being baggage in other groups.
Charles Naumann
: Gresh
: Qualm, Barbarian Shaman, E'ci
:>I go back yadda yadda yadda. Repeat this cycle 2 more times and in the
Davian - LS
>
> On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:04:46 GMT, st...@netcom.com (Stephen Tsai)
> wrote:
>
> >>My biggest frustration right now is - I can't loot (picking things up
> >>makes me overloaded and the AC starts dropping, and then I get my butt
>
> >I've been able to loot decently; Stengthen helps a great deal,
> >plus as a human, I defaulted to 75 to start with.
>
> With cloth armor, food and water, I am at about 12 weight. Over 14
> and the AC starts dropping. 'Course it isn't *really* that big a deal
> - I *am* low maintenance and make more money than I need just from the
> autosplit coinage.
>
I go with the leather armor on my monk... You're supposed to be able to
fight bare-ass naked, but I'm noticing it just makes too much of a
difference. At lvl 10, a gnoll guardsman shows up blue with my armor
on, and is an easy fight one on one... without armor he showed up
Yellow and killed me pretty easily. It didn't kick my ass, but I didn't
really have a chance.
The leather armor raises my monk's AC from 130 to 240. I end up
fighting at about 40/85 wieght... And even at full weight, I'm only
down to 230 defense.
> >Do other people even *get* Safe Fall? I thought only
> >Monks and Rogues got that?
>
> Beats me, but I am a monk... I have it, it just sucks.
>
It's useful somewhat... but the advancement for it seems to be just
plain broken and I'm not willing to waste my practices on it.
Davian
Davian - LS
> Consider only considers me versus them and is a
> strict level consideration.
Consider is *not* a strict level comparison. I'm not sure exactly what
it compares, but attack and defense values definately figure in.
My lvl 10 monk when in full leather armor considers Gnoll Guardsmen as
blue... after dying and while retrieving my corpse, I passed by a few
of them... each and every one considered yellow.
Also, I get experience from killing green young lions. So they are
*not* more than 5 levels below me... and when recovering my corpse,
consider was showing all of them as blue.
I have no clue whether the exp is based on level, or relative consider
power... whether consider takes spells and abilites into
consideration... or a lot of things like that... but it does compare
more than just level.
Davian
Bluehawk
there any commitment (giving credit card number) when you first get the
game, or do you have the first month to decide if you like it?
Bluehawk
Silverlock <cro...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3711ce7...@news.earthlink.net...
> I nearly quit Everquest just now. I am very very tempted to do so even
> as I write this. It is by writing this that I hope to get some of the
> anger and frustration out of me right now. I shouldn't be angry at a
> computer game but I am.
>
> I spent a good 3-4 hours with Shay hunting in West Karanas tonight.
> We couldn't do to much hunting at night because it is pitch black and
> always rains making it even worse. Thus about 40% of our game time was
> limited there. We had to stand around chit chatting because we
> couldn't wander to far from the towers. In any event we made about 2
> bubbles of exp each, I am a level 10 Enchanter and she is a level 11
> Cleric.
>
> After Shay left I quit for a while then decided to go check out Kerra
> Isle. This is where the night went to shit for me.
> I get off the boat. I summon my pet which says its blue and kind of
> risky. I buff myself and it. We go exploring.
>
> I see a Kerra spider, its white but that's supposed to be a 50 %
> chance and I do have my pet. So I cast on it and i unload a lot of
> mana (including 2 fizzles while I'm standing perfectly still doing not
> getting hit at all) I get 4 resisted spells. The spider ignores the
> pet and kills me. I'm not upset because I should have waited a bit
> until the spider locked onto my pet.
>
> I go back to the Island. I get my stuff, summon another pet (hey what
> do you know its a blue risky one again, how about a better
> identification system Verant). This time I decide to attack a Kerra
> Snake, a Blue Kerra Snake. Now blue means I should have a better then
> 50% chance to win right? I cast, resisted. I cast fizzled, I cast,
> resisted. The beastie ignores my pet and kills me. I cast 6 times on
> about 10 tries (fizzles and interrupts when I'm not moving or being
> hit, maybe it was them damn raindrops) of those 6 casts 4 are
> resisted. By a blue. I die.
>
> I go back yadda yadda yadda. Repeat this cycle 2 more times and in the
> space of about an hour and a half (80% of which was waiting for the
> damn boat) I have lost the exp it took me 4 hours with Shay to get. I
> KNOW I should leave but I am so pissed and so disbelieving that I
> can't kill a BLUE under any circumstances that I keep trying. And
> Dying.
>
> In the end I just shut the pc down and realized my hands were shaking.
>
>
> Is there any way to get my money back on Everquest? because I didn't
> have fun tonight in fact this rivaled the worst UO ever had and at the
> same time EQ makes it harder to enjoy the good times with friends.
> Die? Oh yeah you only have a half hour journey back to your friends
> while they either gain exp without you or wait. Better have a real
> good monitor and gamma correction or be one of those kewl Dark Elves
> (Hmmm why Dark elves get the only enchant metal spells and the only
> race with Ultravision... to appease all the wanna be Drizz't out
> there?) .
>
Stupid
> I am a level 10 Enchanter and she is a level 11
<long, sad story snipped>
Maybe it is time for you to try playing a different race/class combo.
I've said (often) that the amazing diversity in EverQuest practically guarantees
that there is at least one type of character that will fit every personality
like a glove.
I have a friend who plays a Troll Warrior. He's not the brightest guy in the
world, but being able to simply wade in to a monster camp and start swinging,
well, it matches him perfectly. He's been playing 10 to 15 hours a day since he
got the game. He dies a lot, and I do mean a LOT. Over this past weekend, he
tells me he died over ten times. But he loves every minute of it. And since he
is still winning more than he is losing, he is still gaining levels at an
furious pace. Even with the exp loss at death, he is gaining three levels a
week, and is currently resting at level 12
I play a Troll Shaman. I don't like dying. As a matter of fact, I'll go to
great lengths to avoid it. But give me a party of two or three warriors and
I'll make them wish they had me in thier back pocket 24 hours a day. I can cast
buffs, debuffs, direct damage, and heals. I can wear armor, and wield a bashing
weapon, so when things get dicey in combat I can always step in and help out.
I've taken small groups from fighting white and yellow monsters to mixed
red/yellow groups. I'm not doing much killing, and I'm not getting much loot
(the warrioirs usually lot thier own kills), but I'm having a blast. I wouldn't
want to play any other knd of character. The drawback? After a month of
dedicated play, I've only just made it level 8.
My wife is playing an Erudite Enchantress. She is not a "hard-core" gamer.
Matter of fact, tis is the -first- computer game she has ever played. Her
reactions are not fast, and she is less than effective in combat. But the
Enchanter suits her very well. The slower pace of playing an Enchanter is
perfect for her. When night falls and the group is reduced to huddling around a
campfire chatting, she is in there typing up a storm. The social aspects appeal
to her, not the combat. I've been gently nudging her into taking up a trade
skill since I think she would enjoy being able to eliminate combat and fighting
from her game completely, but we'll see how that goes.
The point is, if you're not having fun playing an Enchanter, DON'T PLAY ONE!!
There are twelve different races and fourteen different classes. That's over
150 different combinations. Each one is completely different. Try a different
one. You might be surprised.
--
Eric Penn STUPID's three rules to life:
stu...@jps.net Stick with what you're good at,
stu...@he.net Learn from your mistakes, and
ep...@calpoly.edu When in doubt, act stupid!
PGP Public Key: http://www.jps.net/stupid/pub_key.txt
Silverlock
wrote:
>In article <3711ce7...@news.earthlink.net>,
>Silverlock <cro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>(Hmmm why Dark elves get the only enchant metal spells and the only
>>race with Ultravision... to appease all the wanna be Drizz't out
>>there?) .
>
>There are ways to get those Enchant Metal spells.
>Either wait until 12th lvl (Illusion Dark Elf)
>or get a Dark Elf PC to buy them for you.
>I'm in negotiations with one via e-mail at
>this time in fact.
>
Yeah I just think it's kind of dumb that all non Dark Elves get left
behind by 4 levels at least OR have to pay some Surcharge on top of
already super high spell costs OR have to risk multiple deaths and
lots of time for a spell the Dark Elves casually buy at a vendor. I
mean is there a corresponding lack for DE's? Do they have to go to
Felwithe to buy their Languid Pace or Rune Series spells? Nope so why
are non dark elve races being discriminated against? If the only
problem was that they were in a dangerous situation I wouldn't
complain, I made the run to Highhold for my animation and although
risky I knew all other Enchanters would have to go through the same
trial by fire so it didn't bother me.
>>Oh of course I tried to escape, I used my color flux spell, it works
>>for all of about 1 second. What's up with that? For an emergency spell
>>it ought to at least give you a chance to escape. Or are we supposed
>>to automatically use it when we get to half health and the
>>semi-reliable health bars for EQ monsters show to high. I'll say this
>>for UO when the health bar on a monster shows high you can believe its
>>high and when its low you know its almost dead.
>>
>>And fix the damn resist rates for Enchanters spells already. Christ I
>>shouldn't have more then half my spells resisted by a blue.
>
>Geez, where have you been? I and others have been
>ranting and raving about the excessive resistance
>against Enchanter spells for the last 2 weeks or
>so. And all we get told is "deal with it" in so
>many words.
>
I been playing an Enchanter. All through beta, and final I have
played one and I am intimately familiar with the resist problem with
higher level mobs. Last night was the first real bad resist I have had
with blues and I sure hope its not a portent of things to come.
>Even worse, the supposed spell that's supposed
>to deal with magic resistance (Tashan) doesn't.
>I have never gotten that spell to work against reds;
>the always resist it.
>
I agree, when it is successfully cast (even though it checks poison it
also seems to be resisted more then it should) I don't really notice a
big difference in resist rates. I used to use it anyway until I found
out that only magic based spells benefit which means the frost rift
and disease spells the shaman and necromancer throw or elemental
spells the wizard and Magician throw are not benefitting at all, only
clerics and supposedly Enchanters will see an increase and I can't say
that I have from personal experience.
>Even more pitiful, I don't think Verant reads this
>newsgroup, so all this complaining is for naught.
>But if someone wants to prep a petition or something
>to send to them directly, I'll certainly sign it.
>
>Stephen Tsai aka Caeeorny of Karana
>--
I agree.
Silverlock
wrote:
>Dundee wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:53:42 -0700, Shrike <shr...@alcaudon.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Man... If you can't handle your Enchanter stick to your bard and quit
>> >yer whinning.
>>
>> Oh, niiiiiiice answer...
>>
>> Have the "Stock Reply to People Who Whine About Whining":
>>
>> If you can't handle the whining, you shouldn't read the newsgroup. Or
>> at least you shouldn't have read that post. He *started* it
>> explaining that he was venting. That's your cue to hit "read next".
>
>I don't have a problem with people complaining about the shortcomings
>of the Enchanters or any other class, but when they start a post
>saying "I'm going to quit EQ" and they end it explaining how much fun
>they had playing another class, methinks we have a whine rather than a
>complaint.
It is relative fun. The ideal character class for me would be the idea
of the Enchanter, I play one despite their problems because I like the
Idea behind them and hope they will be fixed. However playing the
"other" group class, bards is much easier, and thus after the
frustration of last night also much funner. Bards turn their song on
and press a button and they are in attack mode and making a difference
to the whole party without much effort. There's no timing your spells
between attacks, no hoping they don't resist, no being the prime
target ALL the time. I just want Enchanters to be as effective with
groups as Bards are even if they are more difficult to master. The
difficulty would be the price of being effective in a different way,
but currently I am not finding myself to be THAT much of a boost in
big groups which naturally want to take on reds and yellows.
Silverlock
<tayl...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
Thanks for the info. I don't know how it helps since the thing was
still theoretically a blue but its good to know.
>Silverlock wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:27:58 GMT, "Slithey Tove" <sli...@pond.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>
>
>> Consider only considers me versus them and is a
>> strict level consideration.
>
Silverlock
<rico...@netmagic.net> wrote:
>Silverlock wrote:
>
>> I spent a good 3-4 hours with Shay hunting in West Karanas tonight.
>> We couldn't do to much hunting at night because it is pitch black and
>> always rains making it even worse. Thus about 40% of our game time was
>> limited there. We had to stand around chit chatting because we
>> couldn't wander to far from the towers. In any event we made about 2
>> bubbles of exp each, I am a level 10 Enchanter and she is a level 11
>> Cleric.
>Don't know much about the game yet, but buy a frigging lantern. I mean
>REALLY buy a frigging lantern. Damn gamma correction knob doesn't work
>for me except when I preset it from the control panel, no adjustment in
>game: But I bought a frigging lantern!
>
>I was bad, I was terrible! I mean I attacked a tent no less! Hey, it
>looked like a bat in the dark!
>
>2nd night, I got lost swimming around in caves under the city. That
>candle is worthless (Soon as I bought the lantern, DESTROY w/candle).
>After you get wet, just re equip the light source to get it lit again.
>
>I am thinking about buying two lanterns. Heck you can even have a weapon
>equipped with one, maybe I can use two?
>
>Spending all my time under Freeport finding secret doors, swimming with
>a fishing pole in one had and lantern in the other. Kind of silly
>really. Got to kill a few piranhas.
>
>A good game would result:
>
>Blizzard programming and doing the user interface
>
>OSI doing the game world, atmosphere (bread if you will) and art
>
>Verant doing the quests, eye candy, scale, and NPCs
I am a gnome so I get Infravision which is good at seeing bodies. I
also have a fire beetle eye, which is about the same a sa lantern.
The problem I have is I am the KING of getting lost. I have gotten
lost In every single zone I have played in at one time or another.
My journey thru BB to Halas was via the spiked floor pit and the high
shamans room. My journey through King XXorbs gorge was right past the
great big eyeball itself. My Journey through Runneyeye ended up when
my Invisible failed in some sort of Goblin Shaman training room.
On the plains of Karana there aren't a whole lot of landmarks once you
leave sight of the towers. All the farms look alike so far although I
will eventually get to know them. And when it gets dark it really gets
dark. Plus the rain. The part that annoys me is in RL I have a built
in North finder. I can 90% of the time tell you which way is north
accurately even in totally strange surroundings. Maybe that lack of
north feeling helps make the game world even more confusing.
Silverlock
<aljflj...@mindspring.net> wrote:
>Besides the DarkElves, the Gnomes have the Ultravision capability
>also
>
>
>[Silverlock wrote]
>
>>(Hmmm why Dark elves get the only enchant metal spells and the only
>>race with Ultravision... to appease all the wanna be Drizz't out
>>there?) .
>>
>
>
First I've heard of it and i play a Gnome. We get infravision. Unless
I'm like a Mutant Gnome or something ;-)
Davian - LS
You're right... Every race execpt the human variants gets
Infravision... with only the Dark Elves getting Ultravision.
Infravision is good enough for me... but being a human really, really,
really sucks because of the night thing.
Davian
Silverlock
>On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:18:35 GMT, cro...@earthlink.net (Silverlock) wrote:
>
>> I am a level 10 Enchanter and she is a level 11
>
Well personally I would prefer they fixed Enchanters so they aren't
practically required to sit around and take it slow rather then saying
this class is for people who don't want to keep up with their friends.
Every class should be equally viable or else they are not balanced
correctly.
Paul Bernat
>On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:58:52 GMT, st...@netcom.com (Stephen Tsai)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <3711ce7...@news.earthlink.net>,
>>Silverlock <cro...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>(Hmmm why Dark elves get the only enchant metal spells and the only
>>>race with Ultravision... to appease all the wanna be Drizz't out
>>>there?) .
>>
>>There are ways to get those Enchant Metal spells.
>>Either wait until 12th lvl (Illusion Dark Elf)
>>or get a Dark Elf PC to buy them for you.
>>I'm in negotiations with one via e-mail at
>>this time in fact.
>>
>Yeah I just think it's kind of dumb that all non Dark Elves get left
>behind by 4 levels at least OR have to pay some Surcharge on top of
>already super high spell costs OR have to risk multiple deaths and
>lots of time for a spell the Dark Elves casually buy at a vendor. I
>mean is there a corresponding lack for DE's? Do they have to go to
>Felwithe to buy their Languid Pace or Rune Series spells? Nope so why
>are non dark elve races being discriminated against? If the only
>problem was that they were in a dangerous situation I wouldn't
>complain, I made the run to Highhold for my animation and although
>risky I knew all other Enchanters would have to go through the same
>trial by fire so it didn't bother me.
I'd say Highhold was a pretty dangerous place for Dark Elves but I
agree that as we get Illusion:Human at L4 you should get Illusion:
Dark Elf at say 8 (not 4 because it also gives you infravision).
[snipped]
Paul Bernat
e-mail work: pz.b...@ptl-uk.com
home: pbe...@ikroh.u-net.net
Twilight
wrote:
>I nearly quit Everquest just now. I am very very tempted to do so even
>
i hear you and i feel the pain. I actually wanted to be an enchaanter
but a buddy of mine told me way back in the beta NO and big fat NO .
he told me many things about them and basically said that they were
the hardest with ineffective spells and have a hard time graft put on
them.
it would be great for them if they spells were better but i suspect
the best spells they will ever cast is buff spells on the group and
thats it.. no good offence (gets resisted ) no good defence ( gets
resisted ) absolutely nothing beyond the buff spells.. which really
really majorly SUCKs the big one.
as for being discriminated against i understand. I am a troll
shadowknight..everyone else hates me !!! i mean i am a vegetarian!
really ! well not really i didnt swallow ! i just chewed ! Honest :)
"I can picture in my mind a world without war , a world without hate . And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it. " -Jack Handey
Daniel Thomas
whining? The original post and all from that poster which followed were
measured and reasonable.
----------
In article <37124136...@alcaudon.com>, Shrike <shr...@alcaudon.com>
wrote:
>Silverlock wrote:
>>
>
>[snip-o-matic]
>
>> I tried a Bard last night. in a fraction of the time I spent on any of
>> my 3 Enchanters I got him to level 4. And he's fun. I can fight a
>> white and actually have a chance to win.
>>
>> And for thsoe in the UO forum who don't want to read this its clearly
>> marked so if you don't want to read it get a kill file, I'm posting
>> this to show there definately are problems with EQ and it's not all
>> sweetness and light and don't let anyone tell you differently.
>
>crossposts to r.g.u-o excised.
>
>Man... If you can't handle your Enchanter stick to your bard and quit
>yer whinning. I think I just read above you had FUN with him.
Davian - LS
>
> Do you think you guys will be playing past the initial 1 mo period. Is
> there any commitment (giving credit card number) when you first get the
> game, or do you have the first month to decide if you like it?
>
> Bluehawk
Near as I can tell, it's just like UO.... you give them your credit card
number to activate, if you don't want to play beyond the free month you
have to connect and cancel.
Davian
Paul Bernat
>>Nonononono. That's not a good summary of his complaint. We played
>>with a big group Saturday and his spells would *never* hurt the things
>>we were fighting. We played for eight hours straight and only like
>>ONE time did something not resist his spells. That's a bit
>>ridiculous.
>
>Well, as you mentioned elsewhere, there was a big level difference
>between him and what we were killing. Most of it was red or yellow to
>me, meaning level 12+. That's 3 levels plus (mostly plus) higher than
>him, which Syl himself called "deep red". I know that anything 3
>levels or more above me is going to resist almost everything I cast on
>it. Certainly a red orc shaman resists nearly 100 percent of my
>drowsy, sicken, and tainted breath spells.
But do you have some spells that have a reduced effect if resisted?
>I read an analysis by a beta tester that said that shamans get a spell
>at level 19 (that lowers the targets resistances, most notably to
>poison) that basically opens the door for Tashan (the enchanter spell
>that lowers the targets resistance to magic, and is apparently
>poison-based), which then opens the door for ... well, you get the
>idea.
If you're referring to being able to cast a second Tashan etc,. Tashan
doesn't stack.
>Kinda convoluted, and aguably a design flaw.
>
>Gresh
>Qualm, Barbarian Shaman, E'ci
Paul Bernat
Sparky
> Silverlock wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:27:58 GMT, "Slithey Tove" <sli...@pond.com>
> > wrote:
> >
>
> > Consider only considers me versus them and is a
> > strict level consideration.
>
> Consider is *not* a strict level comparison. I'm not sure exactly what
> it compares, but attack and defense values definately figure in.
>
> My lvl 10 monk when in full leather armor considers Gnoll Guardsmen as
> blue... after dying and while retrieving my corpse, I passed by a few
> of them... each and every one considered yellow.
This assumes that all Gnoll Guardsmen are equal. This is not the case, some
are created stronger than others.
Sparky...
Dundee
<tayl...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>I go with the leather armor on my monk... You're supposed to be able to
>fight bare-ass naked, but I'm noticing it just makes too much of a
>difference.
Yah, that's why I quit breaking my vow of poverty.
>At lvl 10, a gnoll guardsman shows up blue with my armor
>on, and is an easy fight one on one... without armor he showed up
>Yellow and killed me pretty easily.
Eh? Just a coincidence, I wot. /con doesn't take armor into
consideration, afaik.
>The leather armor raises my monk's AC from 130 to 240. I end up
>fighting at about 40/85 wieght... And even at full weight, I'm only
>down to 230 defense.
Full suit of leather? Shoulder pads and all that? Maybe I'll give it
a whirl.
>It's useful somewhat... but the advancement for it seems to be just
>plain broken and I'm not willing to waste my practices on it.
What else is there to spend practices on? I can max out everything
else by usage, except Gnoll-language, maybe.
heh. ;-)
I'm hoping they've fixed this with the patch *today*. If not... I'll
/bug it again.
-
Dundee - http://dundee.uong.com/
Richard Cortese
> On the plains of Karana there aren't a whole lot of landmarks once you
> leave sight of the towers. All the farms look alike so far although I
> will eventually get to know them. And when it gets dark it really gets
> dark. Plus the rain. The part that annoys me is in RL I have a built
> in North finder. I can 90% of the time tell you which way is north
> accurately even in totally strange surroundings. Maybe that lack of
> north feeling helps make the game world even more confusing.
I'm pretty good at getting lost myself. So damn easily distracted, "Hey!
I wonder what that is?". Next thing I know, I have spun around so many
times I am dizzy.
I said in another post that the winds are out of the east, this helps a
bit if you come to a stop and check the cloud movement, but it seems
like they have something wrong with the relationship of the clouds to
your movement. I forgot the buzz word (parallax scrolling?), but if you
move, the clouds no longer move properly in relation to you.
I'll report it as a bug and see what happens. IMO: If nothing else,
changing the way the clouds move and making them relatively independent
from the movement of the observer can't do anything but help with client
side lag. Kind of trivial problem, but who knows. It would surely make
travel easier.
Shrike
>
> Why can't anyone post a need for change without someone telling him to stop
> whining? The original post and all from that poster which followed were
> measured and reasonable.
'Cos he began with the dreaded "I'm going to quit EverQuest" line. I
don't have a problem with anything else in his post (as a matter of
fact, all these posts have helped me decide against trying out an
Enchanter character).
Dundee
wrote:
>'Cos he began with the dreaded "I'm going to quit EverQuest" line.
But he didn't.
Davian - LS
>
> On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:41:22 -0400, Davian - LS
> <tayl...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>
> >I go with the leather armor on my monk... You're supposed to be able to
> >fight bare-ass naked, but I'm noticing it just makes too much of a
> >difference.
>
> Yah, that's why I quit breaking my vow of poverty.
>
> >At lvl 10, a gnoll guardsman shows up blue with my armor
> >on, and is an easy fight one on one... without armor he showed up
> >Yellow and killed me pretty easily.
>
> Eh? Just a coincidence, I wot. /con doesn't take armor into
> consideration, afaik.
Maybe. It's just odd... it wasn't that one, I /con'ed 2 or 3 and they
were all yellow... and on the plains of karana the young lions were
showing up blue instead of green... again, not just one or two as you
would expect from random chance, but 3 or 4 before I found my corpse.
>
> >The leather armor raises my monk's AC from 130 to 240. I end up
> >fighting at about 40/85 wieght... And even at full weight, I'm only
> >down to 230 defense.
>
> Full suit of leather? Shoulder pads and all that? Maybe I'll give it
> a whirl.
>
Yeah... the storebought stuff. It's not as much of a difference as I
thought though. when I checked today, it was adding something like 70
to my armor class, not 110.
It does seem to make a huge difference though.
> >It's useful somewhat... but the advancement for it seems to be just
> >plain broken and I'm not willing to waste my practices on it.
>
> What else is there to spend practices on? I can max out everything
> else by usage, except Gnoll-language, maybe.
>
Craft skills.
Much more cost effective to spend your practice points on them then pay
for all the failure losses.
Davian
Wayne Sheppard
Dundee wrote in message
<706AFAEAF2AE5806.81F752CA...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
>On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:57:14 -0700, Shrike <shr...@alcaudon.com>
>wrote:
>
>>'Cos he began with the dreaded "I'm going to quit EverQuest" line.
>
>But he didn't.
Close enough:
] I nearly quit Everquest just now. I am very very tempted to do so even
] as I write this.
Chris Clark
long time though, about 10 hours or so and he's only level 4. I haven't had
too many problems with fizzles or resisting, but it has happened more times
than I'd like.
chris71
Fiddler wrote in message ...
>In article <3711ce7...@news.earthlink.net>, cro...@earthlink.net
>(Silverlock) wrote:
>
>>I nearly quit Everquest just now. I am very very tempted to do so even
>>as I write this.
>
>Nah, don't quit EQ; just give up on Enchanters for now. They were the
>last class added, and they've got some serious balance issues.
>
>I too started with an Enchanter, and watched the other newbies shoot past
>me in levels and ability. My spells didn't work half the time, and failed
>to do much of anything when they succeeded. My record for "most spells
>consecutively resisted by blues and greens" was 12. I was starting to
>think I was lacking a material component for my spells or something.
>
>I ditched the Enchanter and created a Cleric. Bam! In a few hours I
>surpassed my weeks-old Enchanter, and had a lot more fun doing it. My
>spells are actually useful now. I *never* die to blues, and I've taken on
>my share of yellows with encouraging results. Groups invite me to join at
>the drop of a hat.
>
>Ignore all the mumbo-jumbo about how Enchanters are supposed to be
>"subtle," or jacks-of-all-trades, or balanced with other classes in ways
>not yet revealed. Enchanters just suck. Maybe they'll be good someday,
>but right now they're a lot of pain for very little gain. They should be
>flagged "very difficult" during character creation.
Wayne Sheppard
Silverlock wrote in message <3712ee03...@news.earthlink.net>...
>
>Well personally I would prefer they fixed Enchanters so they aren't
>practically required to sit around and take it slow rather then saying
>this class is for people who don't want to keep up with their friends.
>Every class should be equally viable or else they are not balanced
>correctly.
I'm not making any flames in this post. I'm trying to explain as carefully
as I can the why the the game works as it does.
/CON---------------
The /con system will never be as useful as you want it to. Basically /con
compares your level vs the level of the monster and reports back. It will
never evaluate your actual class and equipment and compare it to the
monster. It cannot simulate 500 battles and give you a percentage.
There are so many different things that could affect the battle. Your stats
and equipment play an important part. The spells you have memorized and the
buffs you have active affect the outcome. Any equipment the monster has
affects the outcome. A decaying skeleton with a rusty scimitar hits a lot
harder than one without a weapon. Some classes and races will just do
better in combat than others. Some monsters have special attacks like Stun,
Disease, and Poison. Some monsters have higher attack speeds which tend to
interrupt casters more. Some classes have special attacks vs certain
monsters (Ward Undead). I could go on and on. This is all assuming you are
soloing. Imagine the complexity if you are in a group.
They could spend a bunch of time making /con very accurate. Against an
Undead /con could check to see if the cleric has his Ward Undead spell
memorized and check how much mana the cleric has. It could check the
weapon, AC and any buffs the cleric has. It could also check for nearby
friendly monsters that may also join in the battle.
Instead, Verant just chose to compare levels. I don't blame them for this
choice. Learn from your experience. A monk may be able to handle a yellow
spellcasting critter, but not a yellow critter with a weapon. Enchanters
will have a much more difficult time handling even blue critters when alone.
BALANCE----
Enchanters may need some serious adjustments to make them a good class. But
Enchanters also have valuable or fun non-combat skills. They get
invisibility at a low level. They can turn themselves into just about any
object in the game. They can also enchant items at higher levels. Last
night there was a big tree on the docks in Butcherblok. It jumped off the
docks and was swimming. Everyone thought it was very funny.
Some consideration has to be given to these non-combat functions when
balancing the classes. If Enchanters were just as good as Wizards in a
combat situation AND they got the non-combat frills, Wizards would then be
underbalanced in respect to Enchanters.
If Enchanters keep their non-combat fun things, then they must be less
effective in combat than other spellcasters just to be balanced. Otherwise
everyone would be Enchanters. The current level of their effectiveness may
be a bit low and need some twinking to bring it up to a decent level.
I have talked to several high level Enchanters (lvl 15+). Everyone really
loved their character. They admitted that they were not the most powerful
class, but they felt they were effective in groups. And all said Enchanters
were the funniest class to play.
CHOOSING YOUR CLASS----
Your Class choice is the most important choice you will ever have in the
game. Your class defines all of the skills and spells you get. This is a
very important choice. You must choose a class that can play the style you
want to play. For example, a Cleric is a very useful class, just about
every group will need a Cleric. Other classes may not have as great of an
influence in combat but offer other advantages that make them worthwhile to
enjoy.
I would recommend that someone choose a class first, then choose which race
they want. You have went the other path, choosing your race first...
>My problem is I really like being a Gnome and yet the only class they
>have I like is the Enchanter.
I find it strange that you don't like Magicians, Necros, Wizards, Clerics,
Rogues, or Warriors, yet you do like Enchanters. I've read many of your
posts where all you do is talk bad about Enchanters. Tell me what qualities
Enchanters have that make you prefer them over all the other spellcasters
that are "better" than Enchanters?
Wayne
Dundee
<MrW...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Silverlock wrote in message <3712ee03...@news.earthlink.net>...
>>
>>Well personally I would prefer they fixed Enchanters so they aren't
>>practically required to sit around and take it slow rather then saying
>>this class is for people who don't want to keep up with their friends.
>>Every class should be equally viable or else they are not balanced
>>correctly.
>BALANCE----
>Enchanters may need some serious adjustments to make them a good class.
That's what he said. Well... except he didn't say "may".
>Some consideration has to be given to these non-combat functions when
>balancing the classes. If Enchanters were just as good as Wizards in a
>combat situation AND they got the non-combat frills, Wizards would then be
>underbalanced in respect to Enchanters.
Some consideration, yeah. However, they *can* be "just as good as
wizards in combat", but in a different way. It's not as if wizards
only have combat spells and nothing but combat spells either.
Silverlock
<MrW...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>Silverlock wrote in message <3712ee03...@news.earthlink.net>...
>>
>>Well personally I would prefer they fixed Enchanters so they aren't
>>practically required to sit around and take it slow rather then saying
>>this class is for people who don't want to keep up with their friends.
>>Every class should be equally viable or else they are not balanced
>>correctly.
>
>
>I'm not making any flames in this post. I'm trying to explain as carefully
>as I can the why the the game works as it does.
>
>/CON---------------
>The /con system will never be as useful as you want it to. Basically /con
>compares your level vs the level of the monster and reports back. It will
>never evaluate your actual class and equipment and compare it to the
>monster. It cannot simulate 500 battles and give you a percentage.
>
>There are so many different things that could affect the battle. Your stats
>and equipment play an important part. The spells you have memorized and the
>buffs you have active affect the outcome. Any equipment the monster has
>affects the outcome. A decaying skeleton with a rusty scimitar hits a lot
>harder than one without a weapon. Some classes and races will just do
>better in combat than others. Some monsters have special attacks like Stun,
IMHO that's wrong since primarily the game revolves around combat.
Sure some should be more dependant on grouping then others but if so
then the benefits to groups should be higher then for those classes
who can solo. To compensate for an Enchanters lack of solo ability (it
can be done but is harder then other classes) they should be much more
beneficial to groups then most other classes. Currently they aren't.
>Disease, and Poison. Some monsters have higher attack speeds which tend to
>interrupt casters more. Some classes have special attacks vs certain
>monsters (Ward Undead). I could go on and on. This is all assuming you are
>soloing. Imagine the complexity if you are in a group.
>
>They could spend a bunch of time making /con very accurate. Against an
>Undead /con could check to see if the cleric has his Ward Undead spell
>memorized and check how much mana the cleric has. It could check the
>weapon, AC and any buffs the cleric has. It could also check for nearby
>friendly monsters that may also join in the battle.
>
I don't mind a strict level check its the fact that the blue range
covers 2-3 levels that annoys me. When I summon a pet I would like to
know which of the three levels he falls into as a blue. They could do
this with a wider variety of text messages without giving hard numbers
and that would be just fine. I'm level 10, is the pet I just summoned
a level 7 which will disappear in 2 hits or a level 9 which might
allow me to get a couple spells off. They both will show as risky blue
to me.
>Instead, Verant just chose to compare levels. I don't blame them for this
>choice. Learn from your experience. A monk may be able to handle a yellow
>spellcasting critter, but not a yellow critter with a weapon. Enchanters
>will have a much more difficult time handling even blue critters when alone.
>
>
>BALANCE----
>Enchanters may need some serious adjustments to make them a good class. But
>Enchanters also have valuable or fun non-combat skills. They get
>invisibility at a low level. They can turn themselves into just about any
>object in the game. They can also enchant items at higher levels. Last
>night there was a big tree on the docks in Butcherblok. It jumped off the
>docks and was swimming. Everyone thought it was very funny.
>
That was a Druid. Druids get treeform early, Enchanters get
illusion:Treeform late and no Enchanters are anywhere near the level
needed for that spell. Also although that's all fun and stuff it
doesn't help in getting levels. it's the equivalent of parlor tricks
at this time. Eventually the later illusions will be most useful in
travel and that is a good thing, Enchanters do travel well. Still, so
do Druids yet they lose none of their combat efficiency.
>Some consideration has to be given to these non-combat functions when
>balancing the classes. If Enchanters were just as good as Wizards in a
>combat situation AND they got the non-combat frills, Wizards would then be
>underbalanced in respect to Enchanters.
>
Just as good ignores a few aspects. Wizards do damage, Enchanters are
supposed to debuff the mob and Enhance the group to make a mob into a
lower level equivalent. Given the ability to cast on equal mobs an
Enchanter will still not have the means to be "just as good" since his
abilities rely on enhancement of others to fight. We are ideally
designed to pair with Tanks. Assuming our spells can get through on
the mobs. Which they really can't right now. No one, certainly not me
wants our damage spells to be as good as Wizards, if I wanted to nuke
stuff I would have been a Wizard. What we want is our debuffs to go
through. I get languid pace and Whirl till you hurl soon, yet if I
group with a large group that wants to hunt reds those spells might
as well not even be scribed for all the good they will do me or the
group.
>If Enchanters keep their non-combat fun things, then they must be less
>effective in combat than other spellcasters just to be balanced. Otherwise
>everyone would be Enchanters. The current level of their effectiveness may
>be a bit low and need some twinking to bring it up to a decent level.
>
Even if our spells worked we are less effective. We by design need to
be behind tanks. We don't have the raw damage capacity and or pets
aren't strong enough to make up for that lack. We are not Magicians or
Wizards nor do we want to be. That doesn not mean we should be less
effective at our designated roles though. And no everyone won;t be
Enchanters because the class is designed to rely on others and that
takes a special type of play. Ask you local Monk or Druid if they
would switch. Nope.
>I have talked to several high level Enchanters (lvl 15+). Everyone really
>loved their character. They admitted that they were not the most powerful
>class, but they felt they were effective in groups. And all said Enchanters
>were the funniest class to play.
>
>
I have talked to several Enchanters as well. All loved their class but
felt frustration that they were of limited use against reds. As for
the funnest class, that would have to wait ill we are functional in
all conflicts as well as other magi classes.
>CHOOSING YOUR CLASS----
>Your Class choice is the most important choice you will ever have in the
>game. Your class defines all of the skills and spells you get. This is a
>very important choice. You must choose a class that can play the style you
>want to play. For example, a Cleric is a very useful class, just about
>every group will need a Cleric. Other classes may not have as great of an
>influence in combat but offer other advantages that make them worthwhile to
>enjoy.
>
>I would recommend that someone choose a class first, then choose which race
>they want. You have went the other path, choosing your race first...
>
>>My problem is I really like being a Gnome and yet the only class they
>>have I like is the Enchanter.
No I always wanted to be an Enchanter. I also always wanted to be a
Druid but that was because of the Travel abilities, which in another
fashion enchanters get.
>
>I find it strange that you don't like Magicians, Necros, Wizards, Clerics,
>Rogues, or Warriors, yet you do like Enchanters. I've read many of your
>posts where all you do is talk bad about Enchanters. Tell me what qualities
>Enchanters have that make you prefer them over all the other spellcasters
>that are "better" than Enchanters?
>
I don't talk bad about Enchanters. I have an issue with spell resists
against reds and broken spells. please show me where I talk bad
against Enchanters in any way other then complaints about higher then
normal resist rates and nonfunctional spells. And In no way do I think
other classes are "better" then Enchanters so I will thank you to stop
putting words into my mouth. I never said Enchanters sucked or
anything like that only that their resist rates make them less fun and
ineffective in certain situations. And that is absolutely true.
Why not wizards. I don't want to be heavy artillery. I don;t want to
nuke all the time. I like variety and even more importantly I like to
buff and debuff as opposed to direct damage.
Why not Magicians. I like almost all Aspects of Magicians, I like that
they summon and their utility. But again they are primarily nukers and
pet users and that is not what I want.
Why not a Cleric. I could easily play a cleric since it fits my play
style. However it is fairly common and lacks some of the things I find
most interesting about the Enchanter class. I would play a Druid
before a Cleric though because they are more evenly balanced then
clerics who favor defense and healing.
Rogues and Warriors are right out since I am a magic user lover. The
next closest thing would be a Bard because of their songs,
What I like about Enchanters. Obviously the idea of Enchanting objects
places and creatures. I want to create items that have bonuses and
trade in them. I wish there were some way to gain skill from doing
this as I would focus a great deal of energy in this area if that were
the case. I like the variety of spells and the fact that many of the
utility spells are at lower level. I like the idea of stunning a
creature, holding it immobile while the tanks focus on the other
creature, allowing them to concentrate their damage without taking
extra hits. I like the Idea of being or at least appearing to be any
creature although initially I was upset that such a large number of
Illusions were in place. I now see they each have their own utility.
Debuffs. I like the idea of Debuffs, and would also consider a Shaman
for this reason as a suitable character, except that there seem to be
an awful lot of Shaman already. I like the fact that we are more
subtle and take more strategy. I like the fact that we are designed to
help others and thus will be wanted for groups (assuming our spells
work and our resists are adjusted to bring us in line with other
casters). I like the fact that an Enchanters utility increases in
emergency situations, like trains. A well placed Stun, or
mesmerization can do wonders to make the unmanageable manageable.
I like the supposed ability to alter NPC factions, to get every quest
int he game, and to make friends easily and influence people (npc's).
What I don't like. Broken spells or spells whose effects don;t do what
they are designed to do.
Color flux for example is an emergency spell but the stun lasts for
too short a period to allow even a 50% chance of escape. I have
escaped only one time using it in all the times I have tried and that
was because me team mates were beating the crap out of the beastie and
it finally ignored me. Had it been in frenzy I would have died then as
well.
Chaotic Feedback. Although the stunned message flashes on screen when
you use this it is immediately followed by the unstunned message and
in any case no one has ever seen the stun actually take effect.
Alliance: If this spell actually changes factions its far to subtle
for anyone to notice currently.
Sentinel: This was supposed to be a sphere or warning but again, I
have never heard of it being used and last I heard it was broken.
Cancel/Pillage Enchantment. Removes the Enchantments in first on first
off order instead of Last on first off order. Thus all the buffs on a
person fail first before the bad effect is even touched. Ideally this
spell would remove one effect (for cancel, perhaps 2 for pillage) from
the last one put on up. Thus it would be useful to cast to remove
curses etc.
Lull/Soothe. These spells do what they are supposed to do but in the
situations when you WOULD use them (when you want one or maybe two out
of a larger group) the effectiveness is so low that they become too
hazardous to use. They need to be cast on each creature You don't
want, they wear off to quickly to cast more then one or two and with
any resist there is a chance of pulling the whole mob. It took only a
few experiments at younger levels to learn that casting this led to
lots of trains.
Enchantment of Light. Was broken or hidden all thru beta. Now its not
to be found although rumors of the Brilliance spell being available
(won't know if it works till much later) are around.
What I would like to see:
More temporary item buffs. I would like a series of armor buffs, that
could be high costa nd castable on the person and would affect all the
armor worn (not in pack). This would be in terms of in game
application no different then casting a personal buff on a person. The
difference is that this spell would be designed to help Tanks,
particularly armored ones. It would raise the AC by a percentage, say
5%. Thus a paladin wearing 250 AC armor would benefit from this spell
far more then any magi class.
Other temporary buffs could be specific buffs like "Shine of Silver"
to temporarily cover weapons with a skin of Silver thus increasing
their effectiveness against undead. Or The ability to store charges of
current spells like damage shields for future use. Say a spell cast by
Enchanter on a tank, then within 30 seconds if a Druid cast a damage
shield on the same person that damage shield would be inert until the
person was hit. Since Enchanters don't get Damage shields this would
also increase grouping benefits/efficiency.
Area Buffs: Zone of Cold/Fire/Silence. Creates a small circle where
certain specific types of damage such as fire damage or shock damage
are reduced. As long as the party stays int he circle they get the
benefits of the enchantment.
Zones of slowing or speed, of warding( perhaps a spell that creates a
safe (or safer) area to rest and meditate in hostile areas. All these
are ideas that do not directly increase the damage dealing ability of
the Enchanter but do improve the usefullness to a party.
>
>
>
>Wayne
>
>
>
>
Silverlock
<MrW...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>Dundee wrote in message
><706AFAEAF2AE5806.81F752CA...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
>t>...
>>On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:57:14 -0700, Shrike <shr...@alcaudon.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>'Cos he began with the dreaded "I'm going to quit EverQuest" line.
>>
>>But he didn't.
>
>
>Close enough:
>] I nearly quit Everquest just now. I am very very tempted to do so even
>] as I write this.
>
>
>
>
And I followed that up with.
It is by writing this that I hope to get some of the
anger and frustration out of me right now. I shouldn't be angry at a
computer game but I am.
Which changes the context of the lines above. Without these lines it
could be indeed an "I am quitting" rant. With them it becomes a "gotta
vent to cool down" rant. Different animals.
Phred
liked playing because while some of the spells gave him alot of character he
was not really that usefull in combat. I would love to resume playing him
if they ever fix the enchanter. Take it from someone who invested alot of
time into the character 'The Enchanter is broken'. My new character a 5th
level bard has a 1st level song that buffs the entire party better than my
enchanters two buffs did at 9th level. The song does not run out either.
Yes I know that I can't sing another song while my buff song is on.
Everquest is a great game don't quit because your character class is broken
or underpowered. Please play another. There are many neat and effective
classes. The only problem is falling way behind any adventuring friends you
had made which can be a bummer.
To all that are saying that the enchanter is fine and that what did we want
a wizard etc. If you have not played the character and had a full mana bars
spells resisted with NO effect then you just don't know the real meaning of
the enchanter blues.
Happy adventuring all.
Fdar Enchanter
Zdar Bard and bastard son of Fdar. Fdar refuses to be seen in public with
Zdar. hehe
Silverlock wrote in message <37152a9...@news.earthlink.net>...
>On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:15:50 -0400, "Wayne Sheppard"
><MrW...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
<major snippage>
y...@mindspring.com
Silverlock wrote in message <3712ee03...@news.earthlink.net>...
>>
>>My wife is playing an Erudite Enchantress. She is not a "hard-core"
gamer.
>>Matter of fact, tis is the -first- computer game she has ever played. Her
>>reactions are not fast, and she is less than effective in combat. But the
>>Enchanter suits her very well. The slower pace of playing an Enchanter is
>>perfect for her. When night falls and the group is reduced to huddling
around a
>>campfire chatting, she is in there typing up a storm. The social aspects
appeal
>>to her, not the combat. I've been gently nudging her into taking up a
trade
>>skill since I think she would enjoy being able to eliminate combat and
fighting
>>from her game completely, but we'll see how that goes.
With 5 times/ level + 5 skill cap she'll not ever excell in any trade unless
she goes out there and levels and the without enchanter quests, combat is
the only way to get anywhere... Non-combat roleplaying is pretty non
existant right now. It's a good army recruiting game right now, buy
Everquest, travel to far off lands, see strange new creatures, kill them
again, and again, and again, and again.... By 8th level I've probably
murdered more things than charles manson ever dreamed about.... Supposedly
I worship the goddess of love....
Right now enchanters are kinda screwed like the rogues.
>
Davian - LS
>
> With 5 times/ level + 5 skill cap she'll not ever excell in any trade unless
> she goes out there and levels and the without enchanter quests, combat is
> the only way to get anywhere... Non-combat roleplaying is pretty non
> existant right now. It's a good army recruiting game right now, buy
> Everquest, travel to far off lands, see strange new creatures, kill them
> again, and again, and again, and again.... By 8th level I've probably
> murdered more things than charles manson ever dreamed about.... Supposedly
> I worship the goddess of love....
>
> Right now enchanters are kinda screwed like the rogues.
>
Uh... have you played a rogue? If so I'd like to hear about the
experiences that prompted this statement.
Looking at the skills.... between dual wield, double attack,
backstab... a rogue can do some serious damage. True you play them
more like a fighter with special tactics than a true sneaking in shadows
avoiding all combat type rogue, but a rogue would appear to be quite
able to do well in combat.
I know NPC rogues have backstabbed me for 50 damage in one hit, and were
hitting normally quite well... well enough to kill me.
Davian
Dennis Francis Heffernan
wrote:
|Looking at the skills.... between dual wield, double attack,
|backstab... a rogue can do some serious damage. True you play them
|more like a fighter with special tactics than a true sneaking in shadows
|avoiding all combat type rogue, but a rogue would appear to be quite
|able to do well in combat.
Can't go by the skills; there's all kinds of black-box stuff in there we
can't see. There's also a rumor of different skill caps for different
classes, but I can't confirm or deny that myself.
Dennis F. Heffernan EQ: Venture (E'ci) dfra...@email.com
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"There's no easy way to be free."
-- Pete Townshend, "Slip Kid"
m.m. ubbink
enchanter cant go kill the blue cons. Im a level 7 enchanter now, and play
solo, as well as in goups. I must say, i have the feeling i do contribute to
a group, mostly because my giant snake fang and my pet do considerable
damage. I notice that a group often has not the patience to wait for you to
buff them up; but then again, you run out of mana quickly, so you are not
able to buff them all up completely. I like to think that the best spell I
have at this level is my enfeeblement spell, which weakens the monster, and
works quit a bit of the time. Even on reds. My best buff spell is the Haze
spell, which blurs you and makes the monster miss the meleefighters quit a
bit more, i think. Add to that my 10-12 damage a hit with my gianrt snake
fang, and the 10-12 damage my pet is doing(juli's animation worked for me
from the beginning) and i feel that i do contribute something to a group os
similar, evenhigher level. And about the blues: when i solo i do a lot of
blue young lions and lionesse, and i always win, AND get xp from them. Im
fully buffed up, that is a requirement. With full buffs i have 153 AC, and
97 attack, not bad for an enchanter. Just wish my groupbuffingspells would
be a little better, and that a group canhave the patience for them..
Helios, 7th level enchanter.
Dundee heeft geschreven in bericht
<10831324CD04E394.F76C5780...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
>On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:27:58 GMT, "Slithey Tove" <sli...@pond.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I'm replying both to you, and to the others in this thread.
>>
>>Why are you guys expecting to be able to play solo as a magic user?
>
>Nonononono. That's not a good summary of his complaint. We played
>with a big group Saturday and his spells would *never* hurt the things
>we were fighting. We played for eight hours straight and only like
>ONE time did something not resist his spells. That's a bit
>ridiculous.
>
>Also, solo as any other class, you *can* run out and kill something
>that con's blue to you. But Enchanter's can't. Not because they are
>spellcasters, but because they are enchanters. That sort of bites,
>too.
>
>>That seems be be part of the frustration here. (The other part, which is
more
>>reasonable, is having spells resisted by low level creatures.)
>
>Well, the dying over and over and over to something that con'd blue...
>yeah. :-P
m.m. ubbink
enchanter cant go kill the blue cons. Im a level 7 enchanter now, and play
solo, as well as in goups. I must say, i have the feeling i do contribute to
a group, mostly because my giant snake fang and my pet do considerable
damage. I notice that a group often has not the patience to wait for you to
buff them up; but then again, you run out of mana quickly, so you are not
able to buff them all up completely. I like to think that the best spell I
have at this level is my enfeeblement spell, which weakens the monster, and
works quit a bit of the time. Even on reds. My best buff spell is the Haze
spell, which blurs you and makes the monster miss the meleefighters quit a
bit more, i think. Add to that my 10-12 damage a hit with my gianrt snake
fang, and the 10-12 damage my pet is doing(juli's animation worked for me
similar, evenhigher level. And about the blues: when i solo i do a lot of
blue young lions and lionesse, and i always win, AND get xp from them. Im
fully buffed up, that is a requirement. With full buffs i have 153 AC, and
97 attack, not bad for an enchanter. Just wish my groupbuffingspells would
be a little better, and that a group can have the patience for them..
Helios 7th level enchanter
Ebonio
They've also played around with the skills levels. Pickpocket used to
be lvl3 now it's lvl 6. All in all it seems like the class is still a
work in progress. Not saying it's a bad class but it's obviously not
finished yet...
...Eb... (who is surprised to learn Julie's animation now works)
On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:05:55 -0400, Davian - LS
<tayl...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Right now enchanters are kinda screwed like the rogues.
>>
>
>Uh... have you played a rogue? If so I'd like to hear about the
>experiences that prompted this statement.
>
>Looking at the skills.... between dual wield, double attack,
>backstab... a rogue can do some serious damage. True you play them
>more like a fighter with special tactics than a true sneaking in shadows
>avoiding all combat type rogue, but a rogue would appear to be quite
>able to do well in combat.
>